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Welcome to Michigan Reimagined, presented by Good Marketing and Wagoner Financial.
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And here's your host, Chris Block.
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So seemingly out of nowhere, data centers have been proposing
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new facilities in many Michigan communities. Most are being met
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with pretty strong opposition, but it's really hard to keep
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up with what the concerns are, what the rebuttals have been,
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and ultimately what the truth is. Here to discuss the
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topic on a broader scale, as well as some details
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on the proposed Lancing based project is the vice president
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of Strategy and Operations for Deep Green, mister Luke Gavin.
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Welcome to the show, Luke, great to be here, Thank you.
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Let's start from the top for those who are a
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little naive about what we're talking about here, what is
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a data center and what does it do?
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Thanks sen Jon. It's very simplest form as a building
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that hosts computers, and that's kind of it. So if
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you think of it as a sort of self storage unit,
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people can host their computers at a data center, and
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you know, as a data center operator, we provide space,
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we provide cooling, and we provide power to those clients.
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Got it?
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And why is there such a need to have so
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many new data centers in new locations at this particular
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point in time.
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So, I mean, data centers have been around for decades,
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They've grown steadily over the past two or three decades.
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Obviously with AI boom over the last two or three
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years there the volume of data centers has increased pretty significantly. Really,
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the reason why they're sort of entering new regions is
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the need for power. So the traditional data center hubs
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where they were being built really without anyone really noticing,
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have run out of spare power. So data center developers
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are going to new locations where there's more available power,
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new geographies, new countries, new states to try and continue
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to build out of the data centers to match the
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demand from the AI boom which is growing and growing.
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God, it makes a lot of sense. So people basically
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benefit from data centers by having what more capacity for
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computations and AI and all the things that go into it.
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Like what if these data setters aren't built.
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And so everything in modern life, you know, requires a
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data center in some way. You know, from the moment
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you wake up and use your phone to sort of
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this call to a hospital, doing kind of medical research
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to a factory doing sort of advanced engineering. Data centers
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are used almost in every facet of our modern lives,
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and without them, you know, the lives that we all
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enjoy would just simply not be possible at all. So
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we sort of all benefit from technological advances which are
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enabled sort of the kind of infrastructure that sits right
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at the bottom of those tech the logical advances.
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And so does the geography of a data center matter,
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much like having one in Lansing or Dallas, Texas, or
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New York. Probably not in New York City, but you know,
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does that matter, Does it serve kind of a certain
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local community.
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It really depends on the use case. So traditionally data
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centers were focused around sort of key hubs. So for example,
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in Virginia or in the west of London that would
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be a data center hub. And that's because it's really
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crucial that for some use cases that the time that
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it takes to send data to and from that data
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center is very short. So, whether that's a financial trading algorithm,
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that time that it takes to send data to and
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from a dat center needs to be very very short
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for other use cases. So sort of these AI training models,
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that time is a lot less relevant, and that's one
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of the reasons why data centers have sort of started
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spreading out because they don't need to be near kind
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of trading hubs, financial hubs, population hubs. They can be
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kind of anywhere because that latency or the sort of
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time it takes is less important, now, got it?
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And so is it fair to say that if the
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population resists new data centers and are successful, that we
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would just run into capacity constraints and times and speed
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and all the things that we enjoy online, cloud computing
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and AI and all those kinds of things would slow down,
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and we would end up getting less speed and functionality eventually.
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I think I think it's really important that the public
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have their voice and able to voice concerns about new
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data center developments, and ultimately, what we hope happens is
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people's concerned people concerns are turned into sort of laws
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of regulations that make people do data centers the right way.
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We believe, when they're done correctly, they pose very little
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harm and deliver the benefits, like you said of sort
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of technological advances, modern day services, all of that stuff.
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But when they're not done correctly, they can cause harm,
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and I think that feeds into the public's perception that
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data centers are a negative thing and sort of loses
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focus on the positive side of makes sense.
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Okay, before I dive into my next topic, I want
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to give an no door friends at Wagoner Financial. Whether
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is someone there to help you answer the questions that
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you have scheduled consultation by visiting Wagoner dash financial dot
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com or give them a call at five one seven
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eight five three three three six seven. So as the
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person who's in their lobbying for data centers being to
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build correctly, what are the oppositions? In a nutshell? What
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are the three to five things that the citizens are
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concerned about happening in their communities.
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I think that the main ones are power. So data
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is used an enormous amount of power and that's only
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set to increase. In the unis utility rates have gone
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up significantly recently. Yeah, there's a lot of Ultimately it's
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a markets the more you increase demand, most times the
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price increases. So that is valid concern that by adding
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a lot of power demand onto local grids, that that
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utility right for residents goes up. And I think there's
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concerns of data centers paying their fair share of those increases,
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and there's a worry that they're getting special rates and
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local residents and small businesses in the local area are
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left to pick up the bill through their utility bills.
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I think water use is rightly a massive concern. So
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that's both kind of the water use of the data
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themselves and where that water is coming from. Is it
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sort of draining ground reservoirs, is it being taken for rivers?
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And there's also the water discharge from data centers and
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making sure that they're not sort of putting pollutants into
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the local environment. And I think the land use is
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also a concern for people. You know, some of these
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new data centers are enormous. You know, they're being built
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on rural land, and you know, I think local residents
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are concerned and it's just sort of this huge, faceless
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warehouses are just propping up on what was maybe farmland
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and is that the best use of that land? And
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do people want to live near a kind of huge
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industrial complex makes sense? Yep?
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And how about have they heard noise? Is a concern
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that people are concerned that there's going to be a
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hum or a sound that comes from the buildings.
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Yeah, yeah, I think I think noise is a concern
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depending on the occasion, but if it is in a
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sort of littor sei of environment, then noises definitely sort
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of concerned. Right on.
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Okay, and you're with deep Green, which is you're proposing
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a new data center and landing. What's your value proposition
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as a company? Uh, how do you compare with other
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competitors and how do you differ?
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So deep Green was was sort of started. We looked
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at the AI boom and I think the same concerns
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that residents and businesses and local areas are having. You know,
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we had the same concerns. So deep Green was really
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founded to tackle that head on by building data centers
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to meet the demands of sort of hugely increased computing
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that we're seeing, but doing it in the right way.
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The main sort of function that we the main way
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that we do that is through giving the heat from
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the data centers to the local communities. So data sense
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produce a huge amount of heat. I mean, you'll notice
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if you have a laptop on your lap, your field
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the heat and it's exactly the same these sort of
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times that you know, by millions, these data sensers are
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kicking off a huge amount of heat which we believe
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is just simply wasted in the vast majority of data centers.
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So deep Green we capture that heat, we utilize that heat,
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and we give it away for free to the local environment.
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In the smallest case, you know, we're heating swimming pools
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in the UK, but really what we're focusing on now
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is heating whole cities by integrating the district energy systems.
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So that's the kind of core purpose of deep Green.
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On top of that, all of our design and use
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a sort of closed loop system, so it means we
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don't draw any water from the local environment, we don't
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put any water back from the data center into the
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local environment. We build a lot smaller so we sort
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of generally are within an urban environment using sort of
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brown field sites, unused sites. We fit in with the
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local environment, and we use spec capacity on the power grid.
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We make sure that we pay for all of our
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power infrastructure and a full price for any energy we
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use to make sure that we don't have any impact
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on the local utility rates.
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There's a lot to unpacked there because there's a lot
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of good data in there. So in your landing page
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on your website says spend less on power, admit less carbon,
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free heat when needed, and decarbonizer world. Sounds like, I mean,
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those are all pretty powerful statements and certainly to be
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at odds with what people maybe think data centers are.
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So it sounds like you really do intentionally partner. It
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says even heat network partners trying to create a district
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heating scheme. So we have a local utility called Lansing
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Border Water and Light. And I know you're already we're
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recording this in February of twenty twenty six, so I
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know you've had some listening sessions, You're working with planning
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commissions and city council members, so a lot of this,
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you know, the cat is out of the hat. But
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talk a little bit about what you mean when you
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partner with Border water and light and the closed loop system.
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Obviously water needs to be initially put into the system,
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but then it just continues to circle through instead of
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coming in and going out.
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Yeah, so the first point that is, every project that
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we do has what we call the heatop takers, so
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someone who needs the heat either for their business or
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for sort of residential heating or a district energy system
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like the board of Washroe Lights. Every Deeping product project
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has that heat hot taker. For the Lancing one, specifically,
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we partnered with BWL that's supplying the power to the
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site but also taking the heat from the site to
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use in their new hot water loop. So for us,
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that made Lancing a really great project. They were transforming
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the steam system into a hot water system that makes
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it a lot more suitable for data center heat and
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BWR being great to work with, so we just thought
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this is a really good project and we were able
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to It was the Lancing district energy systems of the
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size that we were able to give a lot of
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heat to make a meaningful impact to the city's heating requirements.
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The closed loop system is kind of You're right, you
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fill it up once. It's a sort of glycoal water mix.
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I mean, glycoal's very very common used in hospitals, ice
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cream trucks, all sorts. So you fill it once. That's
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used to kind of circuit around the data center, take
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heat away from the service, and it sort of lasts
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between five and seven years, and then it's disposed of
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and refilled, so none sort of every drump of that
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liquid gets filled up and it doesn't sort of leave
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that system until it's disposed of. And that's basically what
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our post loop system is. Got it.
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And I've seen renderings and I know where your building
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is proposed to go. You mentioned earlier that a lot
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of data centers out there that are being built are
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massive and that you're not as big. Can you give
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us kind of a scale as to what size your
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building is as opposed to the traditional data center.
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Yeah, I mean traditional dat center of one thing. I mean,
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I think the new kind of hyper scale data centers
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that people are seeing in the news could be sort
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of five hundred plus acres. I mean the size of
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sort of towns. We're talking about a kind of unnused
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city parking lot. So a couple of acres downtown. It's
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a sort of pretty much unused parking lot, so we
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sort of it's kind of urban infill. We'd like to
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take land that's not being utilized fully in this case
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of parking lot and turned into something that looks attractive
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but also has a kind of has a purpose to
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find it. So for this case, it's sort of increasing
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the digital capability of lancing in the local area, but
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also giving away that heat to the district engine system
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operating lancing. That's great.
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And so before I dive into kind of where things
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stand today and where the future holds, I want to
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give a nod to my friends at Triterra So. Triterra
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is a leading environmental consulting firm headquartered in Lansing, Michigan,
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with staff around the state to serve your brown field development,
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environmental consulting, and natural resource management needs. Since two thousand
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and eight, Triterra has been successfully advising a wide range
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of organizations to implement solutions to complex environmental challenges. If
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you are a business, a developer, a property owner, a
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lending institution, an attorney, or a governmental entity looking for
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a solution and you want Prompton's timely service. Don't hesitate
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to contact my friends at Triterra, led by CEO and
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visionary Don McNabb, JP Buckingham and Dave Van Herron, and
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supported by dozens of technical experts. You can't miss by
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calling Triterra at five one seven seven zero two zero
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four seven zero or visit them at triterra dot us. So,
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now I know you've been doing the right thing in
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having community listening sessions nights, weekends, zoom live all that stuff,
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not only educating city Council and Planning Commission, but the
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citizens that have concerns. How do you feel that's gone.
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Do you feel like you've been able to deliver information
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that helps these folks feel more educated? And what are
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the hurdles that still need to be cleared?
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Yeah, we certainly hope. So I think our intention with
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these events is to allow the landing community and the
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city Council to make a decision based based on the facts.
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We know there's a lot of stuff out there. We
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know there's a lot of anti data center sort of sentiment,
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and you know, we share a lot of those concerns
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with the industry. So we one hundred percent understand where
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people are coming from I think we just want to
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communicate the deep green story, how we're trying to do
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things differently and allow them to make a choice whether
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they want that in Lancing. You know, we believe it's
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a really valuable project for the city. It delivers loads
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of economic benefits, social benefits, and for us. You know,
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we don't see any sort of negative environmental or negative
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impacts on the local community, so we think it's a
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really positive project. We're trying to communicate that to the locals.
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You know, we've been really impressed. I think Lancing is
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a really engaged community. We've had loads of sort of
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positive feedback. We've had loads of feedback from people who
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might not support it, but it's always been done in
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a really constructive way. So we've really enjoyed those events.
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You know, I think we've been successful in trying to
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communicate how we're doing things differently. We know there's some
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sort of skepticism out there, which which we totally understand,
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but you know, we'll continue continue to talk to people
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and try and try and get our message across right.
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And I know there's a lot of language about whether
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it's state government or city government or local government that
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is trying to regulate data centers like get ahead of it,
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create zoning protocols and best practices, and demand certain things.
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We've done a certain.
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Way to kind of get ahead of it, But it
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seems like the things that they might incorporate are things
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that you're doing anyway, maybe you know, capping the size
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of the structure, or you know, noise suppression systems, or
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the way you're water and glycol i guess are being
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received and deployed, and mandatory partnerships with someone who's going
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to use this heat, whether it's a utility provider or
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other user. So it sounds like you're probably checking a
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lot of the boxes that people are concerned aren't being
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checked in other municipalities. Do you agree with that?
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Yeah? I think so, And I think you know, by
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nature where we've come from, you know where European company,
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European regulations are a lot more stringent across planning and environment.
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You know, you have to jump through a lot of hoops,
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and you know there is regulation now in Germany that's
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mandating heat reuse the data centers of a certain size.
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So I think it's sort of in our DNA that
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that those kind of regulations are just baked into all
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the designs that we do. You know, we certainly think
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that they should be incorporated across the industry, but ultimately
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that's for the states to decide, you know, what's best
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for them and what's best for the residents. But we
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just know that we have a sort of or principle
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of how we want to do things, and you know,
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we really believe that provides a lot of value whilst
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causing no harm to the community. So we think more
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people should be doing it.
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Got it, Well, it's very early February of twenty six.
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What are you on certain agenda items and when do
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you think approvals, if they come, will be allowed or
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will be approved. And then what does a construction cycle
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look like? When do you think this might be up
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and running if everything goes the way you hope.
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So the reazoning vote is in February, so weally hope
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that will be successful, and if that is successful, we
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believe it's probably twelve to eighteen months to get the
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data center life.
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Got it Okay, Well, you know, because there's a lot
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of information out there, a lot of keyboard warriors, is
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there a place that you might recommend people to go
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that gives them kind of an agnostic explanation of data
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centers and the differences between data centers, Like is there
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a forum or just a platform that people could go
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to that aren't necessarily deep Green, but trust I.
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Think really the sort of mainstream news sites. So I
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think in general for sort of that based reporting on
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data centers. You know, whoever your sort of mainstream news
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site is, I would go there rather than social media
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or you know, TikTok. Facebook would probably avoid those for facts,
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but you know, there's a lot of pretty balanced views
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out there, and there's a lot of quite data sent
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critical stuff out there in the mainstream media that is
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based on facts, So I would recommend that. I mean,
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in the UK, the BBC's has done quite a bit
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on data centers, so that might be worth checking out.
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But I'm sure you know, whoever it is, what we'll
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do the same stateside? Right on? Okay?
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And how can people learn more about deep Green specifically?
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Yeah, so our website is deep green dot energy, so
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we sort of host a few bits of content then
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you can learn about deep Green. We're on LinkedIn. I
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think that sort of might be where we share updates
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and news articles that we're in. You recently been sort
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of in a Bloomberg article that we've shared on there
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that's worth reading, talking about the enormous wasted opportunity that
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data sense of not using their heat. So I see
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a mark store to Bloomberg earlier last week, something that's
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all posted to our LinkedIn, so suggest check that out.
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Got it perfect?
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Well, that's really helpful, I tell you selfishly, I wanted
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this topic on because I don't know much at data
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centers and I wanted to learn, and I figured this
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would be a great way for me to learn and
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share it with my listening audience. Obviously, we all want
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everything done the right way, and assuming you do things
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the right way, I wish you nothing but the best
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I know. In my research for the show, looking through
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your website following you on LinkedIn, I've been impressed by
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the proactive approach and a lot of the words that
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are used talking that I've already read that quell my
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concerned barns. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but
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I wish you well and I hope you have smooth
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sailing and that the public takes it easy.
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On you great. Thank you, Chris, and thanks so much
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for having me my pleasure.
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Yep, we've been talking to Vice president Strategy and Operations
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for Deep Green, mister Luke Gavin. Thanks very much and
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all the best to you. And I'd love to give
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a final shout out to all of our loyal sponsors,
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Wagon Or Financial, Good Marketing, Triterra, Environmental, Keller, Williams, Advantage
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00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.759
and Team Michigan Rise, Kirk Byron, State Farm and the
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attorneys at Foster Swift. All fantastic people that are worth
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the call. And if you found the show as a
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one off, I want to remind you to follow and
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subscribe to Michigan Reimagine on YouTube, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
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and pretty much anywhere you find your podcast. Chris Buck
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signing off for Michigan Reimagined and thanks again for joining
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me today, Luke.
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Thanks Chris,
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Welcome to Michigan Reimagined, presented by Good Marketing and Wagoner Financial.
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And here's your host, Chris Block.
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So seemingly out of nowhere, data centers have been proposing
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new facilities in many Michigan communities. Most are being met
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with pretty strong opposition, but it's really hard to keep
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up with what the concerns are, what the rebuttals have been,
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and ultimately what the truth is. Here to discuss the
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topic on a broader scale, as well as some details
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on the proposed Lancing based project is the vice president
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of Strategy and Operations for Deep Green, mister Luke Gavin.
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Welcome to the show, Luke, great to be here, Thank you.
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Let's start from the top for those who are a
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little naive about what we're talking about here, what is
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a data center and what does it do?
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Thanks sen Jon. It's very simplest form as a building
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that hosts computers, and that's kind of it. So if
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you think of it as a sort of self storage unit,
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people can host their computers at a data center, and
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you know, as a data center operator, we provide space,
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we provide cooling, and we provide power to those clients.
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Got it?
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And why is there such a need to have so
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many new data centers in new locations at this particular
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point in time.
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So, I mean, data centers have been around for decades,
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They've grown steadily over the past two or three decades.
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Obviously with AI boom over the last two or three
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years there the volume of data centers has increased pretty significantly. Really,
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the reason why they're sort of entering new regions is
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the need for power. So the traditional data center hubs
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where they were being built really without anyone really noticing,
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have run out of spare power. So data center developers
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are going to new locations where there's more available power,
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new geographies, new countries, new states to try and continue
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to build out of the data centers to match the
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demand from the AI boom which is growing and growing.
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God, it makes a lot of sense. So people basically
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benefit from data centers by having what more capacity for
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computations and AI and all the things that go into it.
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Like what if these data setters aren't built.
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And so everything in modern life, you know, requires a
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data center in some way. You know, from the moment
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you wake up and use your phone to sort of
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this call to a hospital, doing kind of medical research
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to a factory doing sort of advanced engineering. Data centers
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are used almost in every facet of our modern lives,
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and without them, you know, the lives that we all
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enjoy would just simply not be possible at all. So
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we sort of all benefit from technological advances which are
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enabled sort of the kind of infrastructure that sits right
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at the bottom of those tech the logical advances.
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And so does the geography of a data center matter,
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much like having one in Lansing or Dallas, Texas, or
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New York. Probably not in New York City, but you know,
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does that matter, Does it serve kind of a certain
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local community.
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It really depends on the use case. So traditionally data
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centers were focused around sort of key hubs. So for example,
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in Virginia or in the west of London that would
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be a data center hub. And that's because it's really
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crucial that for some use cases that the time that
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it takes to send data to and from that data
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center is very short. So, whether that's a financial trading algorithm,
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that time that it takes to send data to and
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from a dat center needs to be very very short
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for other use cases. So sort of these AI training models,
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that time is a lot less relevant, and that's one
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of the reasons why data centers have sort of started
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spreading out because they don't need to be near kind
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of trading hubs, financial hubs, population hubs. They can be
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kind of anywhere because that latency or the sort of
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time it takes is less important, now, got it?
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And so is it fair to say that if the
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population resists new data centers and are successful, that we
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would just run into capacity constraints and times and speed
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and all the things that we enjoy online, cloud computing
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and AI and all those kinds of things would slow down,
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and we would end up getting less speed and functionality eventually.
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I think I think it's really important that the public
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have their voice and able to voice concerns about new
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data center developments, and ultimately, what we hope happens is
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people's concerned people concerns are turned into sort of laws
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of regulations that make people do data centers the right way.
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We believe, when they're done correctly, they pose very little
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harm and deliver the benefits, like you said of sort
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of technological advances, modern day services, all of that stuff.
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But when they're not done correctly, they can cause harm,
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and I think that feeds into the public's perception that
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data centers are a negative thing and sort of loses
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focus on the positive side of makes sense.
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Okay, before I dive into my next topic, I want
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com or give them a call at five one seven
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eight five three three three six seven. So as the
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person who's in their lobbying for data centers being to
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build correctly, what are the oppositions? In a nutshell? What
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are the three to five things that the citizens are
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concerned about happening in their communities.
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I think that the main ones are power. So data
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is used an enormous amount of power and that's only
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set to increase. In the unis utility rates have gone
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up significantly recently. Yeah, there's a lot of Ultimately it's
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a markets the more you increase demand, most times the
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price increases. So that is valid concern that by adding
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a lot of power demand onto local grids, that that
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utility right for residents goes up. And I think there's
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concerns of data centers paying their fair share of those increases,
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and there's a worry that they're getting special rates and
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local residents and small businesses in the local area are
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left to pick up the bill through their utility bills.
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I think water use is rightly a massive concern. So
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that's both kind of the water use of the data
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themselves and where that water is coming from. Is it
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sort of draining ground reservoirs, is it being taken for rivers?
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And there's also the water discharge from data centers and
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making sure that they're not sort of putting pollutants into
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the local environment. And I think the land use is
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also a concern for people. You know, some of these
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new data centers are enormous. You know, they're being built
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on rural land, and you know, I think local residents
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are concerned and it's just sort of this huge, faceless
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warehouses are just propping up on what was maybe farmland
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and is that the best use of that land? And
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do people want to live near a kind of huge
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industrial complex makes sense? Yep?
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And how about have they heard noise? Is a concern
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that people are concerned that there's going to be a
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hum or a sound that comes from the buildings.
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Yeah, yeah, I think I think noise is a concern
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depending on the occasion, but if it is in a
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sort of littor sei of environment, then noises definitely sort
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of concerned. Right on.
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Okay, and you're with deep Green, which is you're proposing
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a new data center and landing. What's your value proposition
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as a company? Uh, how do you compare with other
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competitors and how do you differ?
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So deep Green was was sort of started. We looked
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at the AI boom and I think the same concerns
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that residents and businesses and local areas are having. You know,
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we had the same concerns. So deep Green was really
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founded to tackle that head on by building data centers
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to meet the demands of sort of hugely increased computing
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that we're seeing, but doing it in the right way.
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The main sort of function that we the main way
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that we do that is through giving the heat from
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the data centers to the local communities. So data sense
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produce a huge amount of heat. I mean, you'll notice
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if you have a laptop on your lap, your field
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the heat and it's exactly the same these sort of
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times that you know, by millions, these data sensers are
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kicking off a huge amount of heat which we believe
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is just simply wasted in the vast majority of data centers.
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So deep Green we capture that heat, we utilize that heat,
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and we give it away for free to the local environment.
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In the smallest case, you know, we're heating swimming pools
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in the UK, but really what we're focusing on now
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is heating whole cities by integrating the district energy systems.
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So that's the kind of core purpose of deep Green.
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On top of that, all of our design and use
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a sort of closed loop system, so it means we
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don't draw any water from the local environment, we don't
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put any water back from the data center into the
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local environment. We build a lot smaller so we sort
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of generally are within an urban environment using sort of
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brown field sites, unused sites. We fit in with the
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local environment, and we use spec capacity on the power grid.
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We make sure that we pay for all of our
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power infrastructure and a full price for any energy we
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use to make sure that we don't have any impact
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on the local utility rates.
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There's a lot to unpacked there because there's a lot
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of good data in there. So in your landing page
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on your website says spend less on power, admit less carbon,
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free heat when needed, and decarbonizer world. Sounds like, I mean,
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those are all pretty powerful statements and certainly to be
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at odds with what people maybe think data centers are.
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So it sounds like you really do intentionally partner. It
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says even heat network partners trying to create a district
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heating scheme. So we have a local utility called Lansing
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Border Water and Light. And I know you're already we're
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recording this in February of twenty twenty six, so I
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know you've had some listening sessions, You're working with planning
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commissions and city council members, so a lot of this,
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you know, the cat is out of the hat. But
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talk a little bit about what you mean when you
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partner with Border water and light and the closed loop system.
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Obviously water needs to be initially put into the system,
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but then it just continues to circle through instead of
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coming in and going out.
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Yeah, so the first point that is, every project that
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we do has what we call the heatop takers, so
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someone who needs the heat either for their business or
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for sort of residential heating or a district energy system
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like the board of Washroe Lights. Every Deeping product project
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has that heat hot taker. For the Lancing one, specifically,
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we partnered with BWL that's supplying the power to the
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site but also taking the heat from the site to
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use in their new hot water loop. So for us,
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that made Lancing a really great project. They were transforming
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the steam system into a hot water system that makes
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it a lot more suitable for data center heat and
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BWR being great to work with, so we just thought
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this is a really good project and we were able
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to It was the Lancing district energy systems of the
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size that we were able to give a lot of
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heat to make a meaningful impact to the city's heating requirements.
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The closed loop system is kind of You're right, you
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fill it up once. It's a sort of glycoal water mix.
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I mean, glycoal's very very common used in hospitals, ice
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cream trucks, all sorts. So you fill it once. That's
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used to kind of circuit around the data center, take
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heat away from the service, and it sort of lasts
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between five and seven years, and then it's disposed of
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and refilled, so none sort of every drump of that
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liquid gets filled up and it doesn't sort of leave
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that system until it's disposed of. And that's basically what
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our post loop system is. Got it.
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And I've seen renderings and I know where your building
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is proposed to go. You mentioned earlier that a lot
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of data centers out there that are being built are
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massive and that you're not as big. Can you give
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us kind of a scale as to what size your
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building is as opposed to the traditional data center.
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Yeah, I mean traditional dat center of one thing. I mean,
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I think the new kind of hyper scale data centers
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that people are seeing in the news could be sort
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of five hundred plus acres. I mean the size of
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sort of towns. We're talking about a kind of unnused
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city parking lot. So a couple of acres downtown. It's
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a sort of pretty much unused parking lot, so we
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sort of it's kind of urban infill. We'd like to
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take land that's not being utilized fully in this case
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of parking lot and turned into something that looks attractive
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but also has a kind of has a purpose to
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find it. So for this case, it's sort of increasing
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the digital capability of lancing in the local area, but
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also giving away that heat to the district engine system
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operating lancing. That's great.
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And so before I dive into kind of where things
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stand today and where the future holds, I want to
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give a nod to my friends at Triterra So. Triterra
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is a leading environmental consulting firm headquartered in Lansing, Michigan,
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with staff around the state to serve your brown field development,
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environmental consulting, and natural resource management needs. Since two thousand
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and eight, Triterra has been successfully advising a wide range
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of organizations to implement solutions to complex environmental challenges. If
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you are a business, a developer, a property owner, a
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lending institution, an attorney, or a governmental entity looking for
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a solution and you want Prompton's timely service. Don't hesitate
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to contact my friends at Triterra, led by CEO and
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supported by dozens of technical experts. You can't miss by
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calling Triterra at five one seven seven zero two zero
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four seven zero or visit them at triterra dot us. So,
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now I know you've been doing the right thing in
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having community listening sessions nights, weekends, zoom live all that stuff,
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not only educating city Council and Planning Commission, but the
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citizens that have concerns. How do you feel that's gone.
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Do you feel like you've been able to deliver information
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that helps these folks feel more educated? And what are
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the hurdles that still need to be cleared?
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Yeah, we certainly hope. So I think our intention with
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these events is to allow the landing community and the
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city Council to make a decision based based on the facts.
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We know there's a lot of stuff out there. We
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know there's a lot of anti data center sort of sentiment,
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and you know, we share a lot of those concerns
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with the industry. So we one hundred percent understand where
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people are coming from I think we just want to
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communicate the deep green story, how we're trying to do
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things differently and allow them to make a choice whether
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they want that in Lancing. You know, we believe it's
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a really valuable project for the city. It delivers loads
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of economic benefits, social benefits, and for us. You know,
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we don't see any sort of negative environmental or negative
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impacts on the local community, so we think it's a
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really positive project. We're trying to communicate that to the locals.
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You know, we've been really impressed. I think Lancing is
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a really engaged community. We've had loads of sort of
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positive feedback. We've had loads of feedback from people who
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might not support it, but it's always been done in
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a really constructive way. So we've really enjoyed those events.
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You know, I think we've been successful in trying to
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communicate how we're doing things differently. We know there's some
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sort of skepticism out there, which which we totally understand,
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but you know, we'll continue continue to talk to people
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and try and try and get our message across right.
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And I know there's a lot of language about whether
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it's state government or city government or local government that
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is trying to regulate data centers like get ahead of it,
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create zoning protocols and best practices, and demand certain things.
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We've done a certain.
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Way to kind of get ahead of it, But it
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seems like the things that they might incorporate are things
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that you're doing anyway, maybe you know, capping the size
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of the structure, or you know, noise suppression systems, or
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the way you're water and glycol i guess are being
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received and deployed, and mandatory partnerships with someone who's going
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to use this heat, whether it's a utility provider or
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other user. So it sounds like you're probably checking a
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lot of the boxes that people are concerned aren't being
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checked in other municipalities. Do you agree with that?
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Yeah? I think so, And I think you know, by
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nature where we've come from, you know where European company,
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European regulations are a lot more stringent across planning and environment.
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You know, you have to jump through a lot of hoops,
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and you know there is regulation now in Germany that's
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mandating heat reuse the data centers of a certain size.
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So I think it's sort of in our DNA that
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that those kind of regulations are just baked into all
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the designs that we do. You know, we certainly think
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that they should be incorporated across the industry, but ultimately
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that's for the states to decide, you know, what's best
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for them and what's best for the residents. But we
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just know that we have a sort of or principle
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of how we want to do things, and you know,
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we really believe that provides a lot of value whilst
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causing no harm to the community. So we think more
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people should be doing it.
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Got it, Well, it's very early February of twenty six.
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What are you on certain agenda items and when do
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you think approvals, if they come, will be allowed or
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will be approved. And then what does a construction cycle
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look like? When do you think this might be up
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and running if everything goes the way you hope.
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So the reazoning vote is in February, so weally hope
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that will be successful, and if that is successful, we
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believe it's probably twelve to eighteen months to get the
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data center life.
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Got it Okay, Well, you know, because there's a lot
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of information out there, a lot of keyboard warriors, is
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there a place that you might recommend people to go
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that gives them kind of an agnostic explanation of data
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centers and the differences between data centers, Like is there
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a forum or just a platform that people could go
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to that aren't necessarily deep Green, but trust I.
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Think really the sort of mainstream news sites. So I
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think in general for sort of that based reporting on
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data centers. You know, whoever your sort of mainstream news
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site is, I would go there rather than social media
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or you know, TikTok. Facebook would probably avoid those for facts,
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but you know, there's a lot of pretty balanced views
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out there, and there's a lot of quite data sent
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critical stuff out there in the mainstream media that is
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based on facts, So I would recommend that. I mean,
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in the UK, the BBC's has done quite a bit
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on data centers, so that might be worth checking out.
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But I'm sure you know, whoever it is, what we'll
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do the same stateside? Right on? Okay?
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And how can people learn more about deep Green specifically?
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Yeah, so our website is deep green dot energy, so
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we sort of host a few bits of content then
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you can learn about deep Green. We're on LinkedIn. I
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think that sort of might be where we share updates
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and news articles that we're in. You recently been sort
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of in a Bloomberg article that we've shared on there
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that's worth reading, talking about the enormous wasted opportunity that
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data sense of not using their heat. So I see
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a mark store to Bloomberg earlier last week, something that's
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all posted to our LinkedIn, so suggest check that out.
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Got it perfect?
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Well, that's really helpful, I tell you selfishly, I wanted
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this topic on because I don't know much at data
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centers and I wanted to learn, and I figured this
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would be a great way for me to learn and
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share it with my listening audience. Obviously, we all want
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everything done the right way, and assuming you do things
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the right way, I wish you nothing but the best
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I know. In my research for the show, looking through
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your website following you on LinkedIn, I've been impressed by
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the proactive approach and a lot of the words that
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are used talking that I've already read that quell my
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concerned barns. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but
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I wish you well and I hope you have smooth
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sailing and that the public takes it easy.
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On you great. Thank you, Chris, and thanks so much
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for having me my pleasure.
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Yep, we've been talking to Vice president Strategy and Operations
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for Deep Green, mister Luke Gavin. Thanks very much and
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all the best to you. And I'd love to give
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a final shout out to all of our loyal sponsors,
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Wagon Or Financial, Good Marketing, Triterra, Environmental, Keller, Williams, Advantage
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and Team Michigan Rise, Kirk Byron, State Farm and the
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attorneys at Foster Swift. All fantastic people that are worth
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the call. And if you found the show as a
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one off, I want to remind you to follow and
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subscribe to Michigan Reimagine on YouTube, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio,
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and pretty much anywhere you find your podcast. Chris Buck
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signing off for Michigan Reimagined and thanks again for joining
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me today, Luke.
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Thanks Chris,
