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What happens when a VR agency stops leading with compliance—and starts leading with trust?
In this episode of Manager Minute, Carol Pankow sits down with Lea Dias, Director of the Hawaii Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, to talk about rebuilding an agency from the inside out. Facing high vacancies, low morale, and years of monitoring pressure, Lea chose a different path—one grounded in listening, kindness, and belief in her people.
The result? ✔ Renewed staff engagement ✔ Stronger community partnerships ✔ Improved employment outcomes ✔ A culture moving from survival to purpose
This is a powerful reminder that real change doesn't start with spreadsheets—it starts with people.
Lea: I'm proud when I see my staff here at the administration level, thinking less about what the staff are doing wrong and focusing more on how can we help them, getting resources to help them, reaching out directly to help them. People talk a lot about rapid engagement and forget that ongoing part rapid and ongoing engagement. If you focus on culture first, the numbers I believe will follow. And if you focus only on numbers, the culture will crumble.
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Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow.
Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Lea Dias, director of the Hawaii Division of Vocational Rehabilitation. Lea recently participated in a panel at the fall CSAVR Conference, sharing Hawaii's journey to improving employment outcomes and what she calls their secret sauce. So how are things going in Hawaii?
Lea: Oh gosh, a lot better now that the shutdown is over. And we got a couple of our grants came through recently. And so that's all good. I think a lot of people think, oh, Hawaii, it's Paradise, right?
Carol: Yes.
Lea: But we have the same sort of issues I think, that many other agencies do. But things are getting better in Hawaii. I'll say that.
Carol: That is awesome to hear. It's so good to see you again. Oh my gosh.
Lea: you too.
Carol: So for years, Hawaii has faced real challenges, including declining employment outcomes, significant work tied to addressing findings from an RSA monitoring report. In fact, you all were monitored the same year I was when I was still with Minnesota Blind back in 2019. And so I remember having a bond with you guys.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: Because we were all going through it together.
Lea: Yes.
Carol: Now, I know when you stepped into the director role following the former director's retirement, you really brought this stabilizing, steady calmness that the agency really needed. And under your leadership, the team is rebuilding momentum, strengthening systems and really seeing some meaningful progress in the work being done across the islands. So today we're just going to explore that journey. What's changed, what's working and what other states can learn from your experience. So let's dig in.
Lea: Okay.
Carol: Can you start by sharing your journey with Hawaii VR and what led you into the director role?
Lea: Sure, Carol. Well, first of all, aloha, and thank you for having me. I have been with Hawaii Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, we're a combined agency, by the way, for over 30 years. And I started off about 34 years ago as an entry level VR counselor at the general site of our agency. And then in 2000, I moved over to become the supervisor of field services at our Ho'opono, which is our services for the blind branch. And Then I stayed there for a while. I then assumed the role of director of our New Visions Structured Discovery Orientation Center, and eventually I became the administrator of Blind Services, and I was honored to serve in that role until about July of 2023. So the majority of my career so far was spent at home. And I learned so much there, you know, working for a blind agency beyond what I got from my master's degree and all that. I learned so much about consumer empowerment. And, you know, the real dramatic changes that vocational rehabilitation can make in people's lives. So anyway, when the former Hawaii VR administrator left pretty abruptly, our agency was in a tough place. We had a vacancy rate of over 40%, I want to say close to 45% and rising low morale. We had that heavy corrective action plan you talked about from RSA and many staff were feeling really overwhelmed. So initially I stepped in as a temporary assignment just because I care so much about our agency. I love this profession. I care about the people we serve, and I wanted to do what I could to help stabilize and restore hope. And also, I had several staff approach me and ask me to do it, and that meant a lot to me. So I decided to apply after that. And I've been official in this job just a little over two and a half years, since July 2023.
Carol: That has gone really quickly.
Lea: Yes it has.
Carol: Well, and when you said bringing kind of that stabilizing calmness, everybody talks about that. You've been credited with doing that. How did you approach leading through that uncertainty and kind of rebuilding trust.
Lea: Oh gosh. Well, thank you for the compliment. But when I stepped in we were struggling across the board. And I know because I was part of that. Right. Coming from within the agency, we had declining successful employment outcomes way down. And a lot of the outcomes we had, they weren't really careers. In many cases, we had something like 77% of eligible participants leaving us before they even got to the point of IPE.
Carol: Wow!
Lea: Which is really atrocious. Super high vacancies. And because of those super high vacancies, we had counselors having to cover other counselors caseloads. So people were really burned out, overwhelmed. And because we had been working since 2019 to resolve that corrective action plan with RSA, and we had been so focused on that, staff were, I think, drowning in compliance tasks. And not that compliance isn't important because it is, of course, but there was a lot of blaming and overcorrecting in my opinion, and I think the human side of VR had been kind of pushed aside. When I was preparing for my speech for CSAVR, I kind of asked the line staff, I told them what I was going to be doing and asked them what they thought. And one counselor really summed up for me how it was by saying, just quote, we were all just Surviving.
Carol: Oh.
Lea: That's kind of pretty much where it was.
Carol: That's quite a statement.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: it really is. And I know I worked with your team too throughout that.
Lea: Mhm.
Carol: You know, when we were trying to work on getting corrective actions done and just kind of redoing policies over and over and fifth iteration, sixth iteration.
Lea: Right.
Carol: Oh my gosh. It was.
Lea: Right.
Carol: It was a lot. And you lose that sense of, you know, you lose the sense of the people and the reason you're all there. I can completely understand that being in the midst of that.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: I know at CSAVR the whole panel was talking about the secret sauce. What do you think has been the biggest impact so far for your agency?
Lea: Well, I focused on listening first and staff told me they felt hurt and they had felt mistrusted and they had felt disrespected. They talked about too many barriers to getting their work done. And, you know, I believed them because like I said, I know.
Carol: Yeah.
Lea: So I developed a pretty tight group of folks on my leadership team up here who I knew I could trust really implicitly to help me, you know, listen to people struggle with and overcome these barriers for our staff and our consumers. And this tight group of people, they shared my vision for the agency and my philosophy of the purpose of this great program called vocational rehabilitation. So we opened up leadership meetings. I decided to bring in frontline supervisors rather than just the people in the quote unquote, ivory tower, and line staff at all levels into our conversations. I really emphasize transparency and consistency and kindness and respect for ourselves. I demanded it to each other and to our consumers, because I really had to rebuild safety and rebuild trust. In the beginning because of the way our agency had been. When I would open up the floor, you know, for people to talk, it was crickets. People just didn't want to speak up. All of that to say, I think there's really to me and I think I said this at CSAVR, I don't think there's really a secret sauce, to be honest. We've made many improvements, but we still have a long way to go, particularly with our data collection and data analysis and reporting are performance measures. Still need a lot of work and my staff and I are learning together. I guess you could say our secret sauce is trust plus autonomy, plus removing barriers and trying to find a way to yes for our consumers and for our staff.
There's lots of little examples, you know, based on feedback that we got from our staff, we started allowing counselors to close their own cases. They weren't allowed to do that, as a result of the reaction to the corrective action plan. I would say we eliminated some things that were outdated or unnecessary, like some financial needs testing language. I stopped the communicating via solely via memo. All communication via memo. Training via memo. I mean, that kind of stuff just doesn't work. It's a good backup, but you can't rely on just written stuff.
Carol: No.
Lea: I cut out what I saw as unnecessary multi-layers of approvals for things as simple as a payment for a service to a consumer would have to come all the way up to the administrator's level if it was, I think, over $2,500. And I was like, this is ridiculous. We really started making a culture shift, I think, from compliance first to people first from distrust, mistrust, and I would say custodialism to communicating my belief, you know, in the skills and judgment of our people tried to make it a less intimidating environment where people could speak their truths and make suggestions for improvements because, you know, like I mentioned, I'm a leader, but I'm also a leader who in a lot of ways has been where they've been. And I know the power of what we can achieve when we all work together and I really believe all those things. I think all those little examples and more have really helped to make a difference.
Carol: I love that because you can always sense your authenticity. Always. I remember meeting you way back, you know, with NCSAB, and we would do work together on committees and all of that good stuff. And it's like, oh my gosh, I always just thought you were amazing because you truly, you walk the talk that you say and people believe you, you know, you're believable. And I think that trust you've put in your people. I could see a difference when we were out there, even last year as a TA center and came for a visit, there was just a whole different sense with that whole group. It was really nice to see. I can just tell. I mean, I can tell from the outside, having seen you all before in meetings where, you know, things were it just felt more chaotic and people didn't feel free to speak. And now you can just see everybody's faces. I mean, it was just their whole affect was so much better.
Lea: Oh, thank you. Thank you for your kindness. That makes me so happy to hear that. I see it, too. But it, I'm always questioning. Is it enough? Am I doing enough? There's still so much to do. But you gotta start somewhere.
Carol: Well, you have to start somewhere.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: I think you've done an incredible job with that.
Lea: Ahh.
Carol: What do you feel like? Maybe. What progress are you most proud of? Or. And what maybe lessons would help other agencies because other people are going through this. You are not the only one in the entire, you know, system here. It is all over the country.
Lea: Yeah. Well, I mean, closing out that corrective action plan was a huge milestone. Very proud of that, especially after so many years. So it took from 2019 till just earlier this year, 2025 for us to finally, you know, get out from under that so that we can focus on other things. But we didn't do it alone. You know, like you mentioned, Doctor Chaz Compton, Chaz and you and the entire VRTAC QM team were really instrumental in helping us get there, and you guys really walked alongside us with empathy and clarity and unwavering support. Even with the time difference and, you know, being an ocean away. I mean, you guys were always there. And, you know, after I assumed this role, you know, Doctor Compton visited us twice so far for in-person, all staff meetings. So I brought in all staff, not just counselors, not just rehab teachers, everybody on staff for in-person sessions. Zoom is great for a lot of things, but sometimes you need everyone there in person for kind of a call to action, you know what I mean?
Carol: Yeah.
Lea: Anyway, those sessions that we had together with Chaz were, I think, really helped us along in this transformation. His ability to connect with staff and reframe challenges helped us ignite what we're calling our Reimagine and Renew initiative. I also want to acknowledge you, Carol, you know, your leadership at the VRTAC QM and the way, you know, you mentioned you and your team guided our agency and you helped us see this journey not as a series of failures, which is how we felt, but really an opportunity more so for growth and renewal. So what am I most proud of? I am most proud when I see our line staff coming up with these fantastic suggestions and being willing to talk to me about it, and then acting on those where we can and making those changes.
I am proud that I see in so many of them, their passion reigniting. I'm proud that many of them don't just see this as a drudgery, kind of 9 to 5 case manager job sitting in front of a computer all day. They're out in the community a lot more now, engaging with consumers, engaging with other agency partners. And when I say engaging with consumers, things like evenings and weekends, graduations, award ceremonies, things like that might seem like a small thing to some, but I know those consumers remember and they appreciate that and their families. I'm proud when I see my staff here at the administration level thinking less about what the staff are doing wrong and focusing more on how can we help them, getting resources to help them, reaching out directly to help them. I see a lot less finger pointing in both directions, because I know when I was on the line, I'd be like those people in administration and administration, people going, are those people on the line? They don't. I see a lot less of a lot less of that. And I'm really pleased that a lot of our partners in the community are ready to talk to us again. I think a lot of those relationships, for various reasons, had been pretty badly damaged, and that's actually been a big part of my job, too, is rebuilding those relationships. So I would say the biggest lesson for other states is this you can't transform an agency just through compliance tasks alone. You need trusted partners, you need honest conversations, and you really need a willingness to go to the mat to rebuild your agency culture, like from the inside out.
Carol: That is really good advice.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: I always think in this role it takes a village. Like when you were talking about assistance from the QM. And I know when we come alongside any state agency, we always refer to it like we. We always feel like we're part of you.
Lea: You are.
Carol: You know, even in the when we're meeting with staff and staff, it's like, okay, this is what we're going to do next, or...
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: ...let's work on this. And we always feel like we just become another we're another staff like in the group to help facilitate whatever getting done. And so.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: That has been so fun and really fun to see. Like your people embracing all of it. You just see such a difference. It really is pretty incredible.
Lea: Yeah. And I want to be really clear. It's not about me. It's not. It's the village. It's everybody together that is making progress. And I think things are looking up.
Carol: But you did make it possible because you open the space and it takes time. Like you said, people at first weren't really willing to talk because there'd been a long time where you couldn't talk about it.
Lea: Yeah, yeah.
Carol: You know, you couldn't bring things up. I remember the whole finger pointing back and forth all the time. People were like, oh, people in Central office. They don't know what's going on out here.
Lea: Yeah, yeah. And it still happens sometimes, you know, I get it, but not, not as much as before.
Carol: Not like before, No, but it takes that. And that took you really coming in and opening up the space. And it's a time factor. Like look at you've been doing it over two years now. Probably another lesson would be it doesn't go quick. Like it takes time to do this and repairing relationships.
Lea: Yes.
Carol: That's a time factor. They've got to trust you and over and over see what you're doing.
Lea: Yeah. And this is probably bad advice, but forget the work life balance thing. For me, it's like I'm at home thinking about this stuff. Like, what can I do? You know what I mean?
Carol: I know I used to sleep, I'd sleep with a pad of paper by my bed, because I'd often wake up in the middle of the night and be like, I'd have an idea, and I'd write it down because I didn't want to lose it for the morning. And then I'd come in. I'd be like, I was thinking last night, and staff would be like, oh my God, you had your pad of paper by the bed?
Lea: Yep, I talked to Siri. Siri, take a note.
Carol: Yes!
Lea: yes.
Carol: Oh, that's so funny. What strategies do you think just a little bit on your, you know, the employment outcomes. And you've done better with those. Chaz was super jazzed about that.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: What strategies do you think contributed most to those improvements you've had in your employment outcomes?
Lea: I've been thinking about this. I think our internal strategies, people talk a lot about rapid engagement and forget that ongoing part, rapid and ongoing engagement. Talking, you know, just like a broken record, talking with staff about that and the importance of that. And I'm seeing that happening more like I mentioned with those evenings, weekends being out in the field.
Carol: Yeah.
Lea: Streamlining processes, as I mentioned, empowering our counselors and trusting them to do their jobs. I think those were all essential. But and of course, the partnership and the help that we got from the TAC-QM, helping us look at our systems with fresh eyes and supporting us in building some sustainable, long term solutions so that external guidance also gave us confidence and helped accelerate our progress. So with all of those pieces kind of working together, some of our results have really improved dramatically. So you mentioned our successful closures. So between program year 23 and program year 24 our successful closures more than tripled. Okay.
Carol: Amazing.
Lea: The numbers are the numbers are small okay. Compared to like New York or something. But you know, in prog ram year 23 we had 30 closures. In program 24 we had 107.
Carol: That is awesome.
Lea: So yeah, I think that's pretty cool. I'm talking some of them are real careers, too, to real success story.
Carol: Oh, I love that.
Lea: That whole thing with the attrition before IPE has dropped really sharply. University of Hawaii at Manoa. They do a consumer satisfaction survey right for clients post closure, and we had the highest return rates ever and the highest levels of satisfaction ever, according to the university Hawaii, who's been doing these surveys for us. And then just some other stats to throw at you. But from program year 23 to 24, we saw our applications increase by 55%. That's applications for services. Determinations of eligibility increased by 59%, IPE development went up by 52%, and our vacancy rate for our staff has dropped to about 30 something percent. It's still high, but it's a lot lower than it was, and it's continuing to drop. And I've been able to fill some really key leadership positions where we had lost some very good people over those tumultuous years. So yeah, I hope I answered your question, but it's I think it's a lot of factors.
Carol: You did. It's been amazing though. And you look at that. I love that those kind of family sustaining wages, people in careers. That was always super important to me. I didn't want to just, you know, jobs and food, filth and flowers. Although people can do, you know, there are people that do want those jobs, but that isn't the only job that's out there.
Lea: Right. And that thinking long term.
Carol: Yeah.
Lea: You know, Chaz did training with us too. I'm thinking long term, like nurse's aide. Or have you thought about nurse? Let's see. What are the differences here.
Carol: right.
Lea: Yeah, I like that.
Carol: Chaz is great at that. Bring it all.
Lea: Yeah.
Carol: Oh my gosh. Good for you though. Look at I think that just shows the power of when staff are trusted and they're feeling really good about their work and they're you're all in alignment on the same mission. You can really make huge things happen and including impacting your vacancy rate for employees, because I know you were much higher. I mean, it felt like you were like at 50% or something. So to have it even down to 30 is better.
Lea: Yeah. I'm also looking at revising our CSPD requirements because they're super high right now. And of course, I believe in the master's degree and the CRC and all that, but I think there's some room for us to loosen that up just a bit, still be in line with federal regulations. But that's another thing that I've heard from staff.
Carol: Yeah, that's a good idea. And there's probably a lot of people we could connect you with. Other states have done something similar to...
Lea: Yes.
Carol: ...kind of create space and layers and ways for people to get in and all of that.
Lea: Yes. Now is a good time because of the Unified State Plan is coming.
Carol: Yes. Perfect timing.
Lea: Yes.
Carol: Good pitch to make. It's like take advantage of that state plan. Time to make those changes.
Lea: Yes.
Carol: So what kind of advice would you have for other VR directors navigating tough challenges based on this experience? Do you have any other things you could offer your colleagues across the country? Because we got a lot of new people in, and there's a lot of really tough situations happening everywhere. You had quite a lot on your plate. So is there any other kind of things that could help them?
Lea: Gosh. Well, I would say start by listening. Trust your staff. They already know what the barriers are. Trust yourself. Listen to your consumers. Your consumer organizations encourage, expect, I should say, rapid and ongoing engagement with our consumers. Help them to dream big and to think long term. Find a way to say yes wherever possible. Give our consumers all the skills and confidence that they need to really achieve their life goals. Celebrate wins, even the small ones. Be a broken record if you have to. Keep your mission visible. And just remember, if you focus on culture first, the numbers I believe will follow. And if you focus only on numbers, the culture will crumble.
Carol: Really good advice.
Lea: Yeah, there's just no task too big when it's done together.
Carol: Oh, Lea, look at you go.
Lea: Ahh.
Carol: you made it all happen. Oh my God.!
Lea: Oh, stop it, I'm gonna cry.
Carol: Nah, you've been great. It's so fun to talk to you. I know chaz said at the conference people were crying when you had talked. There were so many people crying and coming up to you and really feeling so engaged and energized.
Lea: And I was surprised how many people came up because I thought our story was going to be like the worst in the whole, you know, all VR. And I had people coming up kind of, yeah, sharing that they had gone or they are going through a similar situation and, people, can I hug you?
Carol: Oh yeah.
Lea: And I was like, oh sure. You know. So no, I, I'm, I'm so humbled and honored that you even asked me to speak here because although I know we've made as a team some progress, we still have a way to go. But we're going to get there.
Carol: Yeah. See I just want other people to hear your message of hope and positivity, because I think we have a lot of directors feeling pretty, pretty sad right now. I'm pretty tough there in some pretty tough spots. And it you kind of you get that all internalized. I know from being a director too. Boy, it's hard to kind of pull out of all of that when you have just all of this piled on top of you, right? And it's hard to see sort of the light at the end of the tunnel. But your, your vision and just your whole message of really the hope and, and living into that mission and really the trust and all the things you've done, you've been doing the right things. And I think other people need to hear it. So I appreciate you doing this so much.
Lea: Oh, thank you so much again. Thank you.
Carol: Well, so I wish you much continued success. Thanks for your time. I hope you have a great day. Thank you.
Lea: Thank you, thank you.
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Outro Voice: Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time. One minute at a time. Brought to you by the VRTAC. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening.
