Vick Green: I'm excited for today's episode. We have two awesome guests joining us. I'll introduce them here in just a sec, but here for the next few episodes over this month, what we're going to be tackling is what does disciple making culture look like in next gen ministries? And so we would be working with churches all the time. We get their dream disciple, their pathway. And one of the biggest questions that we always had was: what does this look like in kids? What does this look like in students? You asked. We're here to give some answers. We're gonna hope they're the right answers. And we have a new resource called the Rethink Family Ministry Resource. And so I've got it right here for our people who are watching in video. So there's the paper copy, but you can actually with the leader notes get the digital copy as well. We're going to over the next three episodes walk through the rethink framework. And this is the process that we'll go on site with churches and work with and different things as well. So We're going to walk through this over the next three episodes, helping you get back to focusing disciple making for in kids' ministry, student ministry, how do you partner and equip with parents? We're tackling all that and more. And to do that, I brought in the best experts I know: Lauren Brown and Jeff Borden. And so these are our family ministry navigators at Replicate, and they are incredible. And so Lauren and Jeff, introduce yourselves. Give us a little bit of where you coming from, where do you serve, and tell us a little bit about you and your family.
Lauren Brown: Sure. It's an honor and a privilege to be here, Vic. Thanks for asking me to jump on. Like Vic said, my name's Lauren Brown. I am the Children and Family Minister at Brookwood Baptist Church in Shreveport, Louisiana, for all those Louisianians listening right now. But I have been in full-time children's ministry for 20 years now. And so it's hard to believe that I've been doing it that long, but it's been 20 years and I love everything about children's ministry. But I'm specifically passionate about family ministry. And so my husband and I have three kids. It's hard to say, Vic. I was saying, okay, I call kids, but they're almost not kids anymore. You know, so
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: they're sixteen, eighteen, and twenty. And so it gets a little crazy. but we we love being a parent to them in the the next stages of life. And so when we're looking at discipling our children, my beca my passion grew more in helping other parents do the same.
Vick Green: Love it. That's so good. And and Jeff, you're you can start by connecting by you gave Lauren her most recent nickname. And so give
Lauren Brown: That is right.
Vick Green: us give us Lauren's nickname that we developed over our family
Lauren Brown: Ha ha.
Vick Green: as we were building this toolkit and then introduce yourself.
Jeff Borton: It it's low, right? Like very, you know, middle Tennessee monosyllabic low is your
Lauren Brown: Ha ha.
Jeff Borton: is amazing. my name's Jeff Borden. Just like Vic was saying, I'm at Long Hollow Church in Hendersonville, Tennessee. been in student ministry and family next gen, that whole thing for over 25 years and love it. I wake up every day, no joke, excited about what I get to do and feel called to do this. And extremely passionate to see students and kids know Jesus and be discipled and then to help other equip or help equip other people to do the same. And so really is great. My wife is Jen and we have three sons. one is adopted, he's older, he's thirty-one, he just got married. I'm trying to figure all that out. And then I have a sixteen-year-old and a fourteen-year-old. just started driving, and the fourteen-year-old is confident he knows pretty much everything. So I'm in good shape there. but we love,
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: we love family ministry. I'll tell you, been in ministry a long time and family ministry has been the most fulfilling aspect of all my years in ministry. So I'm really excited to be here, Vic. Thank you for the opportunity.
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah, man. So excited for our conversation. Let's jump into it. We talk about rethinking family ministry. And so that's actually kind of the framework that we do all of our trainings around this in. And so whether people are coming in kids ministry, student ministry, they're maybe thinking about the home. we got a lot of people in the next gen space that are coming in. Why does rethinking family ministry, why do we need to rethink it? You just kind of share a little bit about Maybe the burden that you have felt as you've looked at maybe how next gen ministries are currently being run and why we may need to rethink a few things.
Jeff Borton: I think I don't I don't I wanna be careful. I don't I don't you know, I I consider family ministry, and then probably the next most popular word is next gen ministry, right? And so if we're gonna work from that contract context, that's the the phrasing that I'll use. But I don't I don't want to say that next gen ministry is broken per se. I think there's been a lot of great things that happened as a result, and I think there's a lot of really good things that do happen. But I do think it's fair to say it might be incomplete, right? It's not broken, but it's incomplete.
Vick Green: Mm, yeah.
Jeff Borton: and you know, I said a minute ago the most fulfilling has been family ministry. One of the things that was was really just in my gut, so to speak, I guess, when considering longevity in in ministry, particularly in students and kids, is this idea of like, am I doing everything? If I'm gonna spend my life doing this thing, what what is the absolute best way to set students and kids up for success? And that kept coming back to this answer is their their parents. Their parents need to be able to walk on the journey with them. You know, I've seen lots of graduating classes And some of the classes did really well at sticking to church and some of them didn't. And I noticed there was a trend that students who had believing discipling parents had a better shot at staying
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: close to the church and closer to their faith when they graduated from high school. And so I think that's one reason, but I think that's probably more micro on the macro. I think sometimes in Nextogen we we tend to think more of the short term and think more of the things. That are the immediate check-in-the-boxes, so to speak, and family ministry really does help set us up for a long-term discipleship and long-term play, generational legacy type discipleship that happens within the home. So I think that's where I'd start, is
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Borton: that's why we got to rethink some things.
Vick Green: So good. Lauren, what would you add to that?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, when we take this rethink tool, what we're doing is reminding our ministries, we do need to take a step back and we need to rethink some things. Like Jeff said, it may not be completely broken, but there's some things that we can change to make it better. And so when you look at the stats these days in family ministry, you know, it you can get kind of saddened by some of those where two thirds of kids say that there's little to no gospel conversations happening in the home. Or we know in children's ministry and student ministry. We see kids less and less on Sundays. We might get once a month now. Or as some of
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: the statistics say, one percent of the year the church gets them. So it's less about what we're doing in our ministries and more about how we're equipping the parents to do it at
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: home. And so we just have to take a step back and we have to rethink.
Vick Green: Yeah, I love that. I think I remember Jeff, we were on site one day and in with a church and you gave that vision of like, hey, it's not just the students in the events at your church, but how are you ministering to the pa yeah the parents and how are you helping in the home? And it's like we you sat down and they got and I remember this this leader was just like, I have never thought that the parents are also part of my ministry.
Jeff Borton: Hm.
Vick Green: And it's just it I think sometimes we get so focused in on the kid or the student or the event at home. And again, it's not wrong. We're gonna talk about how do you lean in and do that well and how is your programming done with excellence. We're gonna do that over the next three episodes, but it also is it's incomplete to use our box and circle if if people are familiar with that. It's both the box and the circle. It's what's happening both in the program and in the home. And so let's jump in to that think acrostic that we use. And so Lauren, give us the like flyby and then let's try to tackle a couple of them in this episode. and then we'll continue in the next ones. But give us the flyby. What is the think acrostic?
Lauren Brown: Okay, so we have think, so we're gonna start with the T, and that's transformational focus. So we're kind of making this switch from did they come and are they here to who are they becoming? And so we change the scoreboard. We talk about that. What are we gonna start evaluating to see that transformation happening, not just about the events, but actual, are they becoming more like Jesus? And then you have the H, which is home empowered, and so that's when we're gonna partner more with the home. and the parents and grandparents. So we're gonna think more about home, not just parents. We have a lot of grandparents that are raising children in our churches these days. And so we just really want to equip the home. And so that's home empowered. Then we have I, so interconnected ministries. And so this is when we're looking at how our our ministries working together. So it's not just preschool and children and students and adults and senior adults, but how are we all coming together so we're not on our separate islands. Right. And we can kind of work through the same process, use the same ministry language that we're going to use. And we're all one team. And then we have the in, so nurtured partnerships. And so these are partnerships that it's not just for the children, but it's also for the parents. So we do want to make sure
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: that children and teens have great relationships and adults in their lives that are
Vick Green: Okay.
Lauren Brown: just helping them grow and learn more about Jesus. But our parents have that too. And so what does that look
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: like? How are we making sure that parents have these relationships and partnerships as well? And then the last one is K, so kid-centric learning. And this one is fun because we want to make sure that kids and students are learning how they learn best. So what does that look like in our curriculums and in our activities? Are they learning at their developmental stages? And so that kind of gets you a really quick overview of rethink.
Vick Green: Yeah, so good. So that's our five shifts. So we're gonna go through each of those and over the next three episodes. But those are the five thing shifts that have to happen if we're actually gonna see disciple making start to happen in our next gen spaces if we're gonna have if we're gonna start to see equipping our parents and in the home. And so let's let's tackle the first two today, T and H. And so with that idea of transformation focused, Lauren, share a little bit more like practically what does that look like? When you think about a church that's actually leading with transformation, kind of paint that picture or maybe where you're seeing churches doing that best, right?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, I think for us, we had to decide where we wanted our kids and teens to go. So at eighteen, you know, when they were were going off, what was a success for us? Cause we need to have something to evaluate to see if that transformation happened. And so what was that gonna look like? And so for us, that helped us change our scoreboard. What was gonna be the most important? What are we trying to see our kids if we walk alongside birth through 18? What are we wanting to see happen in their lives and how are they becoming more like Jesus? And so I think that transformation happened when we stopped just looking at the numbers. How many people came to this event? How many people came to vacation Bible school or a kids' camp or this family retreat? And it was more about what did the kids and the parents and the families walk away with? Did transformation happen? Did we see more, families coming together or more kids coming together with a new mind because they studied God's word and they memorize scripture together. So we just kinda had the shift the focus away from numbers and more about were our kids walking away closer to Christ, closer to becoming a disciple of Christ after that event or that program.
Vick Green: Yeah, it's so good. You mentioned it, that idea of new mind. I've I obviously know like that so much of transformation focused is connected to what is your church's dream disciple? And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Vick Green: new minds connecting to what Brookwood's is. And show if share with us what is Brookwood's dream disciple and then how is that shaping what you're doing in next gen spaces?
Lauren Brown: think it probably made the biggest difference in transformation. Like it is it just made such a difference. And so ours is Worn Knees. We want our kids to talk and pray to God every day about everything. New mind. We want the lens of scripture to to shape what they think, do and say. We have open arms. We're gonna show love and compassion to those around us and we're gonna have readied feet. We're ready to share our story and God's story with those around us. And it's been really cool 'cause we just came up with a song So now we have a kids' song. We have a preschool version and a kids version. And so we played it this Sunday for the first time as a recap for our vacation Bible school and our camp summer photos, because it was a summer
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: celebration and we were celebrating and that song played. And it just really helped us remember like this is the whole point of everything that we're doing. That our kids have
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: worn these new mine, opened arms and readied feet. And it was just such it's just it just makes a difference when you know what you're working towards. And it's I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but it just it just makes it makes the difference.
Jeff Borton: Mm.
Vick Green: Yeah, and my guess is surely you're doing head, shoulders, knees and toes with that. Like surely that there's
Lauren Brown: Ha ha
Vick Green: some variation that you guys do some tactile dance with that, correct?
Lauren Brown: It is so good. It we we haven't added the motions to the preschool song yet, but that is next. That is next.
Vick Green: Okay, I was gonna say, there's gotta be a dance to it. Cause I mean, I feel like with kids, like, yeah, like somewhere. That's so good.
Jeff Borton: Target.
Lauren Brown: There is. There will be motions.
Jeff Borton: yeah. Yeah. You know, you said Lauren, transformation, a big part of that is scorecard. And I I just man, that stands out so strong is what what are you pointing towards, you know? And it's some of do all of our goals bring about transformation. And I'm I'm glad you said that. Scorecard is a massive part of your motivation and why you do what you do.
Making Disciples with Replicate: Hey church leader, I hope these podcast episodes and the Movement Ready Church book that Robbie and I have written are helping you get disciple making started in your church. What I'm excited for in the next season is that we're taking the Movement Ready Church book to your church. We're doing one day workshops where myself or one of the navigators on our replicate team come on site to your church and work with your staff and leaders to take the principles of this book and to put it into action. What I love about this workshop is that we're not going to do just trainings from the book, but we are actually going to help you create something personal for your church. We're going to give every one of your leaders some essential training to grow as disciple makers and to be a developer of leaders. Secondly, we're going to give you a personalized assessment of your disciple making culture. And then thirdly, we're going to create a one year focus and a first step to get started so that you can see your movement begin. So all you have to do is go to movementreadytraining.com to get more information and to get started. You'll see it's pretty simple. Let's jump on a call together. Let's create a personalized training day for your church and then let's our team take care of the rest and we will bring the Movement Ready Church to your church. So just go to MovementReadyChurchTraining.com and let's get your movement started. Now let's get back to our conversation together.
Vick Green: What are the obviously I think everybody would agree with that sentiment, you know, that you're saying, Jeff, but like we drift and kind of lose sight of that. And so what are maybe things that we functionally, if I were to watch how people do their planning, when they drift from that transformation focus, what what does that look like? 'Cause I know we wouldn't admit it, but I know we've all fallen trap into it or you know, into that trap over time.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. So so what happens when we start to drift?
Vick Green: Yeah, like if what if if you're not leading from transformation, what typically happens there? Like ha what do you maybe see in in next gen ministries when they are just going through the motions or, you know, not leading from transformation?
Jeff Borton: I mean really it if you if you're not leading from transformation the the opposite is you know, I'm trying to think of a better way to say it than what's in my head is you you it's all the short term, short-sided goals really. You know, we're we're gonna evaluate success on different metrics, right? So if it's not transformation, then we've got a different set of metrics. And listen, w all of us would agree, like numbers are important. Numbers are a soul, and a soul matters to God without question. But when the value stops there as hey, we're good, if we're more comfortable saying, Hey, we had a good full room and leaving it at that without asking the question, Great, what are they doing when they get outside of this room? That is a byproduct of some some some drift, right? Like, hey suddenly I'm not worried about transformation. I'm just making sure that all my boxes are checked. It's yeah, I mean it's it's crazy how our intrinsic sometimes insecurities can take over the long term goals, but that's another podcast. So
Vick Green: Yeah, that's right.
Lauren Brown: I think Yeah. I think when we start to see that grip that drift, churches calendar, they get busier. And so then
Jeff Borton: That's true.
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: we're just checking off the boxes like Jeff said, and we're
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: putting this event on the calendar and this event, but when we're focused on transformation and when we are not drifting and we know for sure what we're doing and why we're doing it, I think that makes the difference.
Vick Green: Yeah. I think how many times I've seen churches that are just like they're r running the same program because that's what they've always done.
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: And you're j and and they haven't even stopped to evaluate is there a better way to do this or should we keep doing this? Or why does this actually help? You know, like sometimes it's just like, I mean, like, well, we had a lot of people show up to it and they they and people our parents say they love it. And it's like, okay, but like What is the win? And if it can't come back to one of those dream disciple roles that we're saying it's moving the needle on this, then man, we're we're we're missing the mark in it. And so I just Jeff, just to encourage you too, like as as one of your families that are recipient of your ministry, like y'all recently did this so well with us of you talk about that everyday disciple ha like, and we talk about scriptural being a huge part of that. And sure enough, like you guys had a first grade a Bible presentation that Lena got to go to. And
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: then like y'all talked all you got up there and you talked about an everyday disciple and how an everyday disciple reads their Bible every day. And sure enough, like the next day, my kids like Heard that, came down. Barrett went and got his first grade Bible, which has not been read every day. and he's like, Okay, sister's bringing it. I've got to bring it. And they they sat down and they tried to read it next to us. And so, but again, it's like you guys are working from that. How do we help the an everyday disciple that is in God's word? Like, how do we how do we build an event around that? And so thank you for that as a parent.
Jeff Borton: Exactly.
Vick Green: It's so good. others just real quick before we jump to Home Empowered, anything else maybe ways that you've seen in churches that you're coaching or other ministries that are leading with transformation? any anything any other ideas or ways that you're seeing it done that you would share that's been really cool?
Lauren Brown: I just have an encouragement because I think sometimes when churches start to shift to be more transformational focused, our numbers can go down a little bit because we're being more specific. We've gotten rid of the fluff and we're digging
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: into what really matters, and that's kids growing closer in their fellowship, you know, with Christ. And so sometimes those numbers can dip. but just to be encouraged that you're doing the right thing, you know, keep that transformation focused. And that is, you know, knowing knowing God and connecting with Him and helping your kids and families do that too. So just an encouragement there. If you see a drop in numbers, keep going. You're doing the right thing. and it it'll it will get better.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. That's cool.
Vick Green: That's good. Yeah. That's such a making sure you use that right metric. Are we actually seeing our our kids, our students, our parents, are we seeing that transformation opposed to how how big are these events? And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: so that's good. Any other final word around transformation before we go to the H?
Jeff Borton: Think I think my would be an encouragement also, Lo, I'm glad you said that, is you know, this generation the these upcoming generate really get a a lot of stereotypes thrown at But here's some that I've seen consistently is they they are hungry and they are ready for the word, right? Like you d you don't have to powder coat it, you don't have to, you know, pumpkin pie it, whatever you want to call it. Like they want to know the word and they're hungry for it and they can understand it. And so I would say as we think about transformation and them walking and understanding and being impacted by the word. it is an incredible thing to to see when yes when when a student or a child embraces it so keep on
Vick Green: Speaking of a child embracing it. And so this is it's the family that that those raspberries, if on our people who are listening, that is Allie Sage over there. And so we can't we can't
Jeff Borton: Howie Sage.
Lauren Brown: Hello, Ali Sage.
Vick Green: be talking about a family ministry podcast without the the family joining in. And so that's
Jeff Borton: Bring all in.
Lauren Brown: I love it. I love it.
Vick Green: right. That's happened last time I was on yours, Lauren. And so
Lauren Brown: I love it.
Vick Green: it's great. Man, final thing I would say here before you switch over to the the home empowered in the transformation is if you don't have a dream disciple, that's where to start. Like, and so you heard, especially like Lauren as they talked about like new mind, worn knees, like it though the ready feet. If you don't have that, the greatest thing you can do for your church and for your family ministry is to get it. But also You know, I've I don't I've talked with multiple churches that their family ministry wants it. And as they've started conversations, now the adult ministry's like, actually, we need that. And, you know, the number one way that you can help equip the home is to get that dream disciple for the the parents as much as for kids and students. And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: so that is like I'm always telling people that that's a first place I would start. Everything else that we're gonna talk about for the next three episodes builds upon being able to name what transformation looks like. And and I always think the kids ministry is the most creative with the dream disciple roles. Like the stuff they come up with. I saw the somebody the other day in you know the like tokens that they will give for like celebrate recovery.
Jeff Borton: yeah.
Vick Green: They created it around their roles. And then like kids are all wearing it. And so like each week the they they'd be like, Hey, this week we're gonna focus on this role. And like, so carry, you know, your Faithful follower, you know, token around. And then I saw like another I saw croc gibbets. I don't even know if I
Lauren Brown: yeah.
Vick Green: said that right. Did I say that right? I I don't know.
Lauren Brown: I don't even know.
Vick Green: But the the logos, they were in crocs. I've seen it all over the place, but truly is like so much fun watching it go into those spaces. And so that'd be my encouragement. Start there if you don't have it. Now let's go over to the H. Home Empowered. And so Jeff, tell us a little bit more about what that one looks like. because I feel like we always talk about like help with the home, but it's it's one that I feel like it sometimes loos it's a good idea that doesn't always have as much practicality to it. And so give us a little bit of the importance, but then too how you're seeing that best done in churches.
Jeff Borton: This is it is a shift, right? I mean that we're talking about the five shifted, so it's a shift to go from thinking, I'm only focused on what happens here on property or maybe at an event. And the shift is, yes, we're doing that, but we also want to consider what's happening in the home. And then how can those two things either be symbiotic or work together to help our students grow? And by the way, here's what I'm seeing helping the parents grow as well. You
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: know, I don't want to speak from a place that makes it sound like our parents got it all together. They just got to figure it out. Most of them that we're meeting are saying, hey, we don't have it all together, but we want to develop a conviction for this. How how can we do this and so that's the perspective that we're coming from. So we want to consistently equip parents. You know, we want to give them some simple tools and some ways that they can have spiritual conversations with their kids in their home. We've created just, I mean this is just simple, but it's so silly, a
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Borton: a playing deck of cards, like a deck of cards, like a set of playing cards with a verse on one side and four questions on the other. That's hey, we're in the car and or we're getting ready to Wait to eat at a restaurant or whatever it is, and you read it, and then you just ask some questions. And some of them are kind of about this kid, and then some of them are about the text or what they could learn. It's just a simple thing, a simple resource. But we also want to have a way to help our parents learn how to practically disciple their kids, right? Like, hey,
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: this is how you can actually do this, and we'll talk more about that, I'm sure, in the time to come. But
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Borton: you know, our our family circle is we want to. To help them learn to disciple their kids. And then our staff, our staff is always thinking, like, how can we plan with the parent and the student in mind? And so that's
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: helped us to think. I I'll be really honest. And for many, many years I thought I was doing parent ministry by sending an email and asking them to serve. And I was like, dude,
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: I'm connected with parents, right? Like and and for the knowledge that I had at the time, I'd I'd say that that's about the best I was doing. What we've learned is there's so much more. What what are opportunities for our students and parents and kids to experience the Lord together, to have new you know, opportunities to study together, the same text. what does it look like for them to be on a Bible reading plan with everybody else and walk through this stuff together? So we want to do that and then we want to c communicate some clear next steps. Help them know, hey, here's what's coming up, here's where you can go, and here's how we can help you. And then also having a way to know who actually is discipling their kids and who is not. So when we think home empowered, that's kind of a 30,000 foot view of what that looks like. That's the shift.
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah. And I would I just again recipient of it. Like, I know we have our parent conference coming up this month that you guys are hosting to help us better disciple our kids, invest our kids. Like in in right outside these doors is our kids' reading plan that you're like encouraging us to read through with our kids. You know, and so there's just there's so many things like on my fridge right now are memory verses from you guys of like. encouragement on how to memorize scripture with my daughter. Like, and so there's just in my house, there's like, I think there's probably more long hollow kids stuff than there is like long hollow adult stuff. And and I think that's such a great,
Jeff Borton: Taking over.
Vick Green: like, that's right. Like, but it's so helpful because I'm like I'm the one that's leads the disciple making ministry. Like, I shouldn't need all of that support, false. Like, my gosh.
Jeff Borton: Hello.
Vick Green: And when y'all send those stuff, I'm like. thank you. Cause if I'm honest, I've let the last four days slide and I haven't thought about spiritually investing in my kid for four days. Like, you know, like that's just a typical week for me, whether right or wrong. You know, and like I mean it it's not not right, that's for sure. So but it the the help is needed.
Jeff Borton: We're with it. But to your point, Vake, like you're you're in the role that you are and you find yourself that way. No, think about all our parents who aren't even in that role,
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: you know, who are working hard at whatever it is the Lord has called them to do and they're like, man, and they don't even have the background. So that's that's where the church comes along size and s side and like Home Depot, hey, you can do this, but we just want to help, right? Like that's
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: kind of the mantra.
Vick Green: No, that's so good. Lauren, what would you add? Where how else have you maybe y'all are doing it or you seen other churches that are doing well at empowering the home?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, I think what you've said so far makes a lot of sense because when we're rethinking home empowerment, you we've got to realize it's like seventy percent of parents don't even see themselves as the primary disciple maker. So first we've got to say, look at our families and say, Okay, where are we? And then how do we empower them? And so what does that look like? And one of the things that we found out was we've got to take when we can get So when when are we gonna equip them? when they're already gonna be here. And so one of those number one ways is milestones. And so when we have any kind of milestone celebrations, we are gonna take that time with that parent to equip them in some way. And so that's been really great. Family dedication, Bible celebration, third grade worship, fifth grade, when they're promoting into student ministry, when they're promoting into young adult ministry, whatever that looks like, we're gonna make sure we're walking alongside and using those as equipping moments. But also having some workshops. We have workshops. We have equip conferences. A lot of churches are doing these things because we're finally realizing we have to equip the parents because they need
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: to be empowered to do it. And I think like we I'm children's ministry, Jeff's children family ministry, and a lot of times we forget about student ministry just because I don't have my hand in it all the time. But for any of you listening in student ministry, I know that sometimes it's hard because you're like, I don't have the parents or I only get the kids
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: and the parents don't even come to church. So it can be that challenge we still have to to jump over that hurdle and figure out how can I empower the parents even with them not here. so that's been hard. We've been looking at that and what does that look like here at Brookwood when we do have this handful of students coming, but we never see their parents. How are we connecting?
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: How are we empowering them?
Vick Green: Yeah, that's right. And I'm I'm one thing that you did really well, Lauren, whenever we were build building the toolkit was like we were talking about the importance of knowing what your family makeup looks like and knowing
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: your families. Can you speak just a little bit more to that and how that plays into being able to empower the home?
Lauren Brown: Sure, w I think we called it our family portrait is what we we called it. So we sent out a survey
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: and we were just trying to figure out who do we have here at Brookwood because we can't help, we can't empower, we can't support families when we don't know the dynamic. And so we were just able to send out that survey, got the survey back, and then we're like, Okay, we have grandparents, we have foster. We had a lot of foster kids in our program. So what does this look like and how are we better equipping the home knowing what we know about our families?
Vick Green: Yeah, I think it's so important. I I was just with I was out in LA and we were working with them. And one of the things that they named, they said, our church, it has so much diversity. He says, but really we have the non-nuclear family home. That's what they named it. They were like, if it is a nuclear family, like the the the beaver family, he got
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: they're like, that is the minority. There's very few of those in our home. Because they're pulling a lot of diversity, but also a lot of brokenness. They do a great job at reaching that. And so curious for churches that maybe the nuclear home, they don't have as much of that makeup. It has either non-believing families or split families or grandparents that are parenting them. What does it look like to empower a home that maybe doesn't have believers as the parents and maybe not the just the nuclear family? What would it be your coaching there?
Lauren Brown: Well that is one thing we have not mastered yet. And so that is on the forefront of ours and and sitting in our family ministry meetings sometimes. We're thinking about that. We're looking at the single moms who are here every single Sunday and how are we supporting them? And and is there a small group that they feel comfortable going to for that nurtured relationships? And and so we're still we're still trying to tackle that. And honestly, we're not there, Vic. Like I I don't have much to offer. I just know that when they feel seen and heard, that's when we're gonna get the most from them and and we're able to to support them better. And so the first step would just be do you know who's there? Do they feel seen and do they feel heard? And then we go from
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. Yeah.
Vick Green: Mm. Br that's such a great word. Br Jeff, would you add anything to that?
Jeff Borton: I mean it's she's so right. Like one of the things we're doing is is praying that parents would develop a conviction 'cause that's where it starts. Right? Like it's like, man, we have all these things. But they have to want it, right? Like we can send stuff home, but whether it goes straight into the trash or whether like this is awesome and hangs on their fridge is completely up to the conviction that they have. one of the things that we we found are valuable are things like shared values, right? So like that's one way that sometimes we can communicate with parents that even if they're not believers, there are things that believers and non-believers share for the most part, right? Like a lot
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: of that is family how. So we've recently developed some. Curriculum and met with high school principals or starting in high schools right now and asked if we could do some workshops in the public high school at night and invite parents to come, not scripturally based, truth-based, you know, give them pizza, but as a way to say, Hey, Longhala loves you. Here's some practical parenting tips, right?
Vick Green: Yeah.
Jeff Borton: And so that's a way that we're thinking, how can we help reach some of these parents that probably won't come to church, but They know to the school, we sat down with the principal and they're like, Here's all of our problems. Okay, can we help try to tackle those? Right. And so that's that's coming up. We'll see if it actually works. But that's one of
Vick Green: Yeah.
Jeff Borton: the ways that we're looking and going, okay, it that's at least an avenue. It's a shared value. Why? Well, they're concerned about what their kids are looking at on the internet. All right, let's talk about that. Right. And so starting there, but
Vick Green: Yeah. Man.
Jeff Borton: not even close to figuring it out. So
Lauren Brown: Yeah.
Vick Green: That's so excellent. I love the idea, not scripture based, but truth based. It's like, hey, the gospel fixes every issue that that that principle has. Let's use the the problem and the pain as the as a doorway for us to build relationship. That's great. And I think Lauren too, what you said is it starts by do you even know what your family looks like? And then I I mean you named
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: it so well of like, do they feel seen and heard? The who can help you figure out that challenge is the people who need the help the most. And so the best thing we can do is to listen to those that we're trying to serve. And so great stuff. Okay, so that is the T and the H in the think framework. And so transformation focused. If you don't have a dream disciple, if you don't have a clear picture of what transformation looks like in a way that's measuring success for you, then you gotta start there. And then you have to not just think the program, but we have to think about the home and empower them as well in it. And so if this has been helpful so far, you can actually grab the rethink assessment. It's in the leader notes. And so grab the leader notes. And this rethink assessment will help you and your team actually look and say, how well are we doing these? As well as give you several free resources and learn from other churches that are doing the same. Also, Lauren and Jeff at the start of the year are starting their new cohorts. And so they lead. family cohort ministry cohorts. And so whether it's kids ministry, student ministry, if you want to journey alongside both Jeff and Lauren and many other next gen leaders across the country, you can find more information on that in the leader notes. We would love to have you. We'd love to see you at the Multiply conference in February.
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: and so we'll be there and more. But you can get all of it in leader notes. And then next week we get to talk about how do you create a roadmap. From zero to eighteen. I'm excited. You guys have done this so well, not just in your ministry, but I mean helping other churches do it. And so how do we go from zero to eighteen, getting every ministry, all stages of the family on the same page? That's next week. Until then, subscribe, share this with with your next gen ministry friends, and we'll see you next week.
Lauren Brown: Sure. It's an honor and a privilege to be here, Vic. Thanks for asking me to jump on. Like Vic said, my name's Lauren Brown. I am the Children and Family Minister at Brookwood Baptist Church in Shreveport, Louisiana, for all those Louisianians listening right now. But I have been in full-time children's ministry for 20 years now. And so it's hard to believe that I've been doing it that long, but it's been 20 years and I love everything about children's ministry. But I'm specifically passionate about family ministry. And so my husband and I have three kids. It's hard to say, Vic. I was saying, okay, I call kids, but they're almost not kids anymore. You know, so
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: they're sixteen, eighteen, and twenty. And so it gets a little crazy. but we we love being a parent to them in the the next stages of life. And so when we're looking at discipling our children, my beca my passion grew more in helping other parents do the same.
Vick Green: Love it. That's so good. And and Jeff, you're you can start by connecting by you gave Lauren her most recent nickname. And so give
Lauren Brown: That is right.
Vick Green: us give us Lauren's nickname that we developed over our family
Lauren Brown: Ha ha.
Vick Green: as we were building this toolkit and then introduce yourself.
Jeff Borton: It it's low, right? Like very, you know, middle Tennessee monosyllabic low is your
Lauren Brown: Ha ha.
Jeff Borton: is amazing. my name's Jeff Borden. Just like Vic was saying, I'm at Long Hollow Church in Hendersonville, Tennessee. been in student ministry and family next gen, that whole thing for over 25 years and love it. I wake up every day, no joke, excited about what I get to do and feel called to do this. And extremely passionate to see students and kids know Jesus and be discipled and then to help other equip or help equip other people to do the same. And so really is great. My wife is Jen and we have three sons. one is adopted, he's older, he's thirty-one, he just got married. I'm trying to figure all that out. And then I have a sixteen-year-old and a fourteen-year-old. just started driving, and the fourteen-year-old is confident he knows pretty much everything. So I'm in good shape there. but we love,
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: we love family ministry. I'll tell you, been in ministry a long time and family ministry has been the most fulfilling aspect of all my years in ministry. So I'm really excited to be here, Vic. Thank you for the opportunity.
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah, man. So excited for our conversation. Let's jump into it. We talk about rethinking family ministry. And so that's actually kind of the framework that we do all of our trainings around this in. And so whether people are coming in kids ministry, student ministry, they're maybe thinking about the home. we got a lot of people in the next gen space that are coming in. Why does rethinking family ministry, why do we need to rethink it? You just kind of share a little bit about Maybe the burden that you have felt as you've looked at maybe how next gen ministries are currently being run and why we may need to rethink a few things.
Jeff Borton: I think I don't I don't I wanna be careful. I don't I don't you know, I I consider family ministry, and then probably the next most popular word is next gen ministry, right? And so if we're gonna work from that contract context, that's the the phrasing that I'll use. But I don't I don't want to say that next gen ministry is broken per se. I think there's been a lot of great things that happened as a result, and I think there's a lot of really good things that do happen. But I do think it's fair to say it might be incomplete, right? It's not broken, but it's incomplete.
Vick Green: Mm, yeah.
Jeff Borton: and you know, I said a minute ago the most fulfilling has been family ministry. One of the things that was was really just in my gut, so to speak, I guess, when considering longevity in in ministry, particularly in students and kids, is this idea of like, am I doing everything? If I'm gonna spend my life doing this thing, what what is the absolute best way to set students and kids up for success? And that kept coming back to this answer is their their parents. Their parents need to be able to walk on the journey with them. You know, I've seen lots of graduating classes And some of the classes did really well at sticking to church and some of them didn't. And I noticed there was a trend that students who had believing discipling parents had a better shot at staying
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: close to the church and closer to their faith when they graduated from high school. And so I think that's one reason, but I think that's probably more micro on the macro. I think sometimes in Nextogen we we tend to think more of the short term and think more of the things. That are the immediate check-in-the-boxes, so to speak, and family ministry really does help set us up for a long-term discipleship and long-term play, generational legacy type discipleship that happens within the home. So I think that's where I'd start, is
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Borton: that's why we got to rethink some things.
Vick Green: So good. Lauren, what would you add to that?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, when we take this rethink tool, what we're doing is reminding our ministries, we do need to take a step back and we need to rethink some things. Like Jeff said, it may not be completely broken, but there's some things that we can change to make it better. And so when you look at the stats these days in family ministry, you know, it you can get kind of saddened by some of those where two thirds of kids say that there's little to no gospel conversations happening in the home. Or we know in children's ministry and student ministry. We see kids less and less on Sundays. We might get once a month now. Or as some of
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: the statistics say, one percent of the year the church gets them. So it's less about what we're doing in our ministries and more about how we're equipping the parents to do it at
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: home. And so we just have to take a step back and we have to rethink.
Vick Green: Yeah, I love that. I think I remember Jeff, we were on site one day and in with a church and you gave that vision of like, hey, it's not just the students in the events at your church, but how are you ministering to the pa yeah the parents and how are you helping in the home? And it's like we you sat down and they got and I remember this this leader was just like, I have never thought that the parents are also part of my ministry.
Jeff Borton: Hm.
Vick Green: And it's just it I think sometimes we get so focused in on the kid or the student or the event at home. And again, it's not wrong. We're gonna talk about how do you lean in and do that well and how is your programming done with excellence. We're gonna do that over the next three episodes, but it also is it's incomplete to use our box and circle if if people are familiar with that. It's both the box and the circle. It's what's happening both in the program and in the home. And so let's jump in to that think acrostic that we use. And so Lauren, give us the like flyby and then let's try to tackle a couple of them in this episode. and then we'll continue in the next ones. But give us the flyby. What is the think acrostic?
Lauren Brown: Okay, so we have think, so we're gonna start with the T, and that's transformational focus. So we're kind of making this switch from did they come and are they here to who are they becoming? And so we change the scoreboard. We talk about that. What are we gonna start evaluating to see that transformation happening, not just about the events, but actual, are they becoming more like Jesus? And then you have the H, which is home empowered, and so that's when we're gonna partner more with the home. and the parents and grandparents. So we're gonna think more about home, not just parents. We have a lot of grandparents that are raising children in our churches these days. And so we just really want to equip the home. And so that's home empowered. Then we have I, so interconnected ministries. And so this is when we're looking at how our our ministries working together. So it's not just preschool and children and students and adults and senior adults, but how are we all coming together so we're not on our separate islands. Right. And we can kind of work through the same process, use the same ministry language that we're going to use. And we're all one team. And then we have the in, so nurtured partnerships. And so these are partnerships that it's not just for the children, but it's also for the parents. So we do want to make sure
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: that children and teens have great relationships and adults in their lives that are
Vick Green: Okay.
Lauren Brown: just helping them grow and learn more about Jesus. But our parents have that too. And so what does that look
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: like? How are we making sure that parents have these relationships and partnerships as well? And then the last one is K, so kid-centric learning. And this one is fun because we want to make sure that kids and students are learning how they learn best. So what does that look like in our curriculums and in our activities? Are they learning at their developmental stages? And so that kind of gets you a really quick overview of rethink.
Vick Green: Yeah, so good. So that's our five shifts. So we're gonna go through each of those and over the next three episodes. But those are the five thing shifts that have to happen if we're actually gonna see disciple making start to happen in our next gen spaces if we're gonna have if we're gonna start to see equipping our parents and in the home. And so let's let's tackle the first two today, T and H. And so with that idea of transformation focused, Lauren, share a little bit more like practically what does that look like? When you think about a church that's actually leading with transformation, kind of paint that picture or maybe where you're seeing churches doing that best, right?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, I think for us, we had to decide where we wanted our kids and teens to go. So at eighteen, you know, when they were were going off, what was a success for us? Cause we need to have something to evaluate to see if that transformation happened. And so what was that gonna look like? And so for us, that helped us change our scoreboard. What was gonna be the most important? What are we trying to see our kids if we walk alongside birth through 18? What are we wanting to see happen in their lives and how are they becoming more like Jesus? And so I think that transformation happened when we stopped just looking at the numbers. How many people came to this event? How many people came to vacation Bible school or a kids' camp or this family retreat? And it was more about what did the kids and the parents and the families walk away with? Did transformation happen? Did we see more, families coming together or more kids coming together with a new mind because they studied God's word and they memorize scripture together. So we just kinda had the shift the focus away from numbers and more about were our kids walking away closer to Christ, closer to becoming a disciple of Christ after that event or that program.
Vick Green: Yeah, it's so good. You mentioned it, that idea of new mind. I've I obviously know like that so much of transformation focused is connected to what is your church's dream disciple? And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Vick Green: new minds connecting to what Brookwood's is. And show if share with us what is Brookwood's dream disciple and then how is that shaping what you're doing in next gen spaces?
Lauren Brown: think it probably made the biggest difference in transformation. Like it is it just made such a difference. And so ours is Worn Knees. We want our kids to talk and pray to God every day about everything. New mind. We want the lens of scripture to to shape what they think, do and say. We have open arms. We're gonna show love and compassion to those around us and we're gonna have readied feet. We're ready to share our story and God's story with those around us. And it's been really cool 'cause we just came up with a song So now we have a kids' song. We have a preschool version and a kids version. And so we played it this Sunday for the first time as a recap for our vacation Bible school and our camp summer photos, because it was a summer
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: celebration and we were celebrating and that song played. And it just really helped us remember like this is the whole point of everything that we're doing. That our kids have
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: worn these new mine, opened arms and readied feet. And it was just such it's just it just makes a difference when you know what you're working towards. And it's I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but it just it just makes it makes the difference.
Jeff Borton: Mm.
Vick Green: Yeah, and my guess is surely you're doing head, shoulders, knees and toes with that. Like surely that there's
Lauren Brown: Ha ha
Vick Green: some variation that you guys do some tactile dance with that, correct?
Lauren Brown: It is so good. It we we haven't added the motions to the preschool song yet, but that is next. That is next.
Vick Green: Okay, I was gonna say, there's gotta be a dance to it. Cause I mean, I feel like with kids, like, yeah, like somewhere. That's so good.
Jeff Borton: Target.
Lauren Brown: There is. There will be motions.
Jeff Borton: yeah. Yeah. You know, you said Lauren, transformation, a big part of that is scorecard. And I I just man, that stands out so strong is what what are you pointing towards, you know? And it's some of do all of our goals bring about transformation. And I'm I'm glad you said that. Scorecard is a massive part of your motivation and why you do what you do.
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Vick Green: What are the obviously I think everybody would agree with that sentiment, you know, that you're saying, Jeff, but like we drift and kind of lose sight of that. And so what are maybe things that we functionally, if I were to watch how people do their planning, when they drift from that transformation focus, what what does that look like? 'Cause I know we wouldn't admit it, but I know we've all fallen trap into it or you know, into that trap over time.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. So so what happens when we start to drift?
Vick Green: Yeah, like if what if if you're not leading from transformation, what typically happens there? Like ha what do you maybe see in in next gen ministries when they are just going through the motions or, you know, not leading from transformation?
Jeff Borton: I mean really it if you if you're not leading from transformation the the opposite is you know, I'm trying to think of a better way to say it than what's in my head is you you it's all the short term, short-sided goals really. You know, we're we're gonna evaluate success on different metrics, right? So if it's not transformation, then we've got a different set of metrics. And listen, w all of us would agree, like numbers are important. Numbers are a soul, and a soul matters to God without question. But when the value stops there as hey, we're good, if we're more comfortable saying, Hey, we had a good full room and leaving it at that without asking the question, Great, what are they doing when they get outside of this room? That is a byproduct of some some some drift, right? Like, hey suddenly I'm not worried about transformation. I'm just making sure that all my boxes are checked. It's yeah, I mean it's it's crazy how our intrinsic sometimes insecurities can take over the long term goals, but that's another podcast. So
Vick Green: Yeah, that's right.
Lauren Brown: I think Yeah. I think when we start to see that grip that drift, churches calendar, they get busier. And so then
Jeff Borton: That's true.
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: we're just checking off the boxes like Jeff said, and we're
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: putting this event on the calendar and this event, but when we're focused on transformation and when we are not drifting and we know for sure what we're doing and why we're doing it, I think that makes the difference.
Vick Green: Yeah. I think how many times I've seen churches that are just like they're r running the same program because that's what they've always done.
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: And you're j and and they haven't even stopped to evaluate is there a better way to do this or should we keep doing this? Or why does this actually help? You know, like sometimes it's just like, I mean, like, well, we had a lot of people show up to it and they they and people our parents say they love it. And it's like, okay, but like What is the win? And if it can't come back to one of those dream disciple roles that we're saying it's moving the needle on this, then man, we're we're we're missing the mark in it. And so I just Jeff, just to encourage you too, like as as one of your families that are recipient of your ministry, like y'all recently did this so well with us of you talk about that everyday disciple ha like, and we talk about scriptural being a huge part of that. And sure enough, like you guys had a first grade a Bible presentation that Lena got to go to. And
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: then like y'all talked all you got up there and you talked about an everyday disciple and how an everyday disciple reads their Bible every day. And sure enough, like the next day, my kids like Heard that, came down. Barrett went and got his first grade Bible, which has not been read every day. and he's like, Okay, sister's bringing it. I've got to bring it. And they they sat down and they tried to read it next to us. And so, but again, it's like you guys are working from that. How do we help the an everyday disciple that is in God's word? Like, how do we how do we build an event around that? And so thank you for that as a parent.
Jeff Borton: Exactly.
Vick Green: It's so good. others just real quick before we jump to Home Empowered, anything else maybe ways that you've seen in churches that you're coaching or other ministries that are leading with transformation? any anything any other ideas or ways that you're seeing it done that you would share that's been really cool?
Lauren Brown: I just have an encouragement because I think sometimes when churches start to shift to be more transformational focused, our numbers can go down a little bit because we're being more specific. We've gotten rid of the fluff and we're digging
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: into what really matters, and that's kids growing closer in their fellowship, you know, with Christ. And so sometimes those numbers can dip. but just to be encouraged that you're doing the right thing, you know, keep that transformation focused. And that is, you know, knowing knowing God and connecting with Him and helping your kids and families do that too. So just an encouragement there. If you see a drop in numbers, keep going. You're doing the right thing. and it it'll it will get better.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. That's cool.
Vick Green: That's good. Yeah. That's such a making sure you use that right metric. Are we actually seeing our our kids, our students, our parents, are we seeing that transformation opposed to how how big are these events? And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: so that's good. Any other final word around transformation before we go to the H?
Jeff Borton: Think I think my would be an encouragement also, Lo, I'm glad you said that, is you know, this generation the these upcoming generate really get a a lot of stereotypes thrown at But here's some that I've seen consistently is they they are hungry and they are ready for the word, right? Like you d you don't have to powder coat it, you don't have to, you know, pumpkin pie it, whatever you want to call it. Like they want to know the word and they're hungry for it and they can understand it. And so I would say as we think about transformation and them walking and understanding and being impacted by the word. it is an incredible thing to to see when yes when when a student or a child embraces it so keep on
Vick Green: Speaking of a child embracing it. And so this is it's the family that that those raspberries, if on our people who are listening, that is Allie Sage over there. And so we can't we can't
Jeff Borton: Howie Sage.
Lauren Brown: Hello, Ali Sage.
Vick Green: be talking about a family ministry podcast without the the family joining in. And so that's
Jeff Borton: Bring all in.
Lauren Brown: I love it. I love it.
Vick Green: right. That's happened last time I was on yours, Lauren. And so
Lauren Brown: I love it.
Vick Green: it's great. Man, final thing I would say here before you switch over to the the home empowered in the transformation is if you don't have a dream disciple, that's where to start. Like, and so you heard, especially like Lauren as they talked about like new mind, worn knees, like it though the ready feet. If you don't have that, the greatest thing you can do for your church and for your family ministry is to get it. But also You know, I've I don't I've talked with multiple churches that their family ministry wants it. And as they've started conversations, now the adult ministry's like, actually, we need that. And, you know, the number one way that you can help equip the home is to get that dream disciple for the the parents as much as for kids and students. And
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: so that is like I'm always telling people that that's a first place I would start. Everything else that we're gonna talk about for the next three episodes builds upon being able to name what transformation looks like. And and I always think the kids ministry is the most creative with the dream disciple roles. Like the stuff they come up with. I saw the somebody the other day in you know the like tokens that they will give for like celebrate recovery.
Jeff Borton: yeah.
Vick Green: They created it around their roles. And then like kids are all wearing it. And so like each week the they they'd be like, Hey, this week we're gonna focus on this role. And like, so carry, you know, your Faithful follower, you know, token around. And then I saw like another I saw croc gibbets. I don't even know if I
Lauren Brown: yeah.
Vick Green: said that right. Did I say that right? I I don't know.
Lauren Brown: I don't even know.
Vick Green: But the the logos, they were in crocs. I've seen it all over the place, but truly is like so much fun watching it go into those spaces. And so that'd be my encouragement. Start there if you don't have it. Now let's go over to the H. Home Empowered. And so Jeff, tell us a little bit more about what that one looks like. because I feel like we always talk about like help with the home, but it's it's one that I feel like it sometimes loos it's a good idea that doesn't always have as much practicality to it. And so give us a little bit of the importance, but then too how you're seeing that best done in churches.
Jeff Borton: This is it is a shift, right? I mean that we're talking about the five shifted, so it's a shift to go from thinking, I'm only focused on what happens here on property or maybe at an event. And the shift is, yes, we're doing that, but we also want to consider what's happening in the home. And then how can those two things either be symbiotic or work together to help our students grow? And by the way, here's what I'm seeing helping the parents grow as well. You
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: know, I don't want to speak from a place that makes it sound like our parents got it all together. They just got to figure it out. Most of them that we're meeting are saying, hey, we don't have it all together, but we want to develop a conviction for this. How how can we do this and so that's the perspective that we're coming from. So we want to consistently equip parents. You know, we want to give them some simple tools and some ways that they can have spiritual conversations with their kids in their home. We've created just, I mean this is just simple, but it's so silly, a
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Borton: a playing deck of cards, like a deck of cards, like a set of playing cards with a verse on one side and four questions on the other. That's hey, we're in the car and or we're getting ready to Wait to eat at a restaurant or whatever it is, and you read it, and then you just ask some questions. And some of them are kind of about this kid, and then some of them are about the text or what they could learn. It's just a simple thing, a simple resource. But we also want to have a way to help our parents learn how to practically disciple their kids, right? Like, hey,
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: this is how you can actually do this, and we'll talk more about that, I'm sure, in the time to come. But
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Borton: you know, our our family circle is we want to. To help them learn to disciple their kids. And then our staff, our staff is always thinking, like, how can we plan with the parent and the student in mind? And so that's
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: helped us to think. I I'll be really honest. And for many, many years I thought I was doing parent ministry by sending an email and asking them to serve. And I was like, dude,
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: I'm connected with parents, right? Like and and for the knowledge that I had at the time, I'd I'd say that that's about the best I was doing. What we've learned is there's so much more. What what are opportunities for our students and parents and kids to experience the Lord together, to have new you know, opportunities to study together, the same text. what does it look like for them to be on a Bible reading plan with everybody else and walk through this stuff together? So we want to do that and then we want to c communicate some clear next steps. Help them know, hey, here's what's coming up, here's where you can go, and here's how we can help you. And then also having a way to know who actually is discipling their kids and who is not. So when we think home empowered, that's kind of a 30,000 foot view of what that looks like. That's the shift.
Vick Green: Yeah. Yeah. And I would I just again recipient of it. Like, I know we have our parent conference coming up this month that you guys are hosting to help us better disciple our kids, invest our kids. Like in in right outside these doors is our kids' reading plan that you're like encouraging us to read through with our kids. You know, and so there's just there's so many things like on my fridge right now are memory verses from you guys of like. encouragement on how to memorize scripture with my daughter. Like, and so there's just in my house, there's like, I think there's probably more long hollow kids stuff than there is like long hollow adult stuff. And and I think that's such a great,
Jeff Borton: Taking over.
Vick Green: like, that's right. Like, but it's so helpful because I'm like I'm the one that's leads the disciple making ministry. Like, I shouldn't need all of that support, false. Like, my gosh.
Jeff Borton: Hello.
Vick Green: And when y'all send those stuff, I'm like. thank you. Cause if I'm honest, I've let the last four days slide and I haven't thought about spiritually investing in my kid for four days. Like, you know, like that's just a typical week for me, whether right or wrong. You know, and like I mean it it's not not right, that's for sure. So but it the the help is needed.
Jeff Borton: We're with it. But to your point, Vake, like you're you're in the role that you are and you find yourself that way. No, think about all our parents who aren't even in that role,
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: you know, who are working hard at whatever it is the Lord has called them to do and they're like, man, and they don't even have the background. So that's that's where the church comes along size and s side and like Home Depot, hey, you can do this, but we just want to help, right? Like that's
Vick Green: That's right.
Jeff Borton: kind of the mantra.
Vick Green: No, that's so good. Lauren, what would you add? Where how else have you maybe y'all are doing it or you seen other churches that are doing well at empowering the home?
Lauren Brown: Yeah, I think what you've said so far makes a lot of sense because when we're rethinking home empowerment, you we've got to realize it's like seventy percent of parents don't even see themselves as the primary disciple maker. So first we've got to say, look at our families and say, Okay, where are we? And then how do we empower them? And so what does that look like? And one of the things that we found out was we've got to take when we can get So when when are we gonna equip them? when they're already gonna be here. And so one of those number one ways is milestones. And so when we have any kind of milestone celebrations, we are gonna take that time with that parent to equip them in some way. And so that's been really great. Family dedication, Bible celebration, third grade worship, fifth grade, when they're promoting into student ministry, when they're promoting into young adult ministry, whatever that looks like, we're gonna make sure we're walking alongside and using those as equipping moments. But also having some workshops. We have workshops. We have equip conferences. A lot of churches are doing these things because we're finally realizing we have to equip the parents because they need
Vick Green: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: to be empowered to do it. And I think like we I'm children's ministry, Jeff's children family ministry, and a lot of times we forget about student ministry just because I don't have my hand in it all the time. But for any of you listening in student ministry, I know that sometimes it's hard because you're like, I don't have the parents or I only get the kids
Vick Green: Mm.
Lauren Brown: and the parents don't even come to church. So it can be that challenge we still have to to jump over that hurdle and figure out how can I empower the parents even with them not here. so that's been hard. We've been looking at that and what does that look like here at Brookwood when we do have this handful of students coming, but we never see their parents. How are we connecting?
Vick Green: Yeah.
Lauren Brown: How are we empowering them?
Vick Green: Yeah, that's right. And I'm I'm one thing that you did really well, Lauren, whenever we were build building the toolkit was like we were talking about the importance of knowing what your family makeup looks like and knowing
Lauren Brown: Yes.
Vick Green: your families. Can you speak just a little bit more to that and how that plays into being able to empower the home?
Lauren Brown: Sure, w I think we called it our family portrait is what we we called it. So we sent out a survey
Jeff Borton: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Brown: and we were just trying to figure out who do we have here at Brookwood because we can't help, we can't empower, we can't support families when we don't know the dynamic. And so we were just able to send out that survey, got the survey back, and then we're like, Okay, we have grandparents, we have foster. We had a lot of foster kids in our program. So what does this look like and how are we better equipping the home knowing what we know about our families?
Vick Green: Yeah, I think it's so important. I I was just with I was out in LA and we were working with them. And one of the things that they named, they said, our church, it has so much diversity. He says, but really we have the non-nuclear family home. That's what they named it. They were like, if it is a nuclear family, like the the the beaver family, he got
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: they're like, that is the minority. There's very few of those in our home. Because they're pulling a lot of diversity, but also a lot of brokenness. They do a great job at reaching that. And so curious for churches that maybe the nuclear home, they don't have as much of that makeup. It has either non-believing families or split families or grandparents that are parenting them. What does it look like to empower a home that maybe doesn't have believers as the parents and maybe not the just the nuclear family? What would it be your coaching there?
Lauren Brown: Well that is one thing we have not mastered yet. And so that is on the forefront of ours and and sitting in our family ministry meetings sometimes. We're thinking about that. We're looking at the single moms who are here every single Sunday and how are we supporting them? And and is there a small group that they feel comfortable going to for that nurtured relationships? And and so we're still we're still trying to tackle that. And honestly, we're not there, Vic. Like I I don't have much to offer. I just know that when they feel seen and heard, that's when we're gonna get the most from them and and we're able to to support them better. And so the first step would just be do you know who's there? Do they feel seen and do they feel heard? And then we go from
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: Yeah. Yeah.
Vick Green: Mm. Br that's such a great word. Br Jeff, would you add anything to that?
Jeff Borton: I mean it's she's so right. Like one of the things we're doing is is praying that parents would develop a conviction 'cause that's where it starts. Right? Like it's like, man, we have all these things. But they have to want it, right? Like we can send stuff home, but whether it goes straight into the trash or whether like this is awesome and hangs on their fridge is completely up to the conviction that they have. one of the things that we we found are valuable are things like shared values, right? So like that's one way that sometimes we can communicate with parents that even if they're not believers, there are things that believers and non-believers share for the most part, right? Like a lot
Vick Green: Mm.
Jeff Borton: of that is family how. So we've recently developed some. Curriculum and met with high school principals or starting in high schools right now and asked if we could do some workshops in the public high school at night and invite parents to come, not scripturally based, truth-based, you know, give them pizza, but as a way to say, Hey, Longhala loves you. Here's some practical parenting tips, right?
Vick Green: Yeah.
Jeff Borton: And so that's a way that we're thinking, how can we help reach some of these parents that probably won't come to church, but They know to the school, we sat down with the principal and they're like, Here's all of our problems. Okay, can we help try to tackle those? Right. And so that's that's coming up. We'll see if it actually works. But that's one of
Vick Green: Yeah.
Jeff Borton: the ways that we're looking and going, okay, it that's at least an avenue. It's a shared value. Why? Well, they're concerned about what their kids are looking at on the internet. All right, let's talk about that. Right. And so starting there, but
Vick Green: Yeah. Man.
Jeff Borton: not even close to figuring it out. So
Lauren Brown: Yeah.
Vick Green: That's so excellent. I love the idea, not scripture based, but truth based. It's like, hey, the gospel fixes every issue that that that principle has. Let's use the the problem and the pain as the as a doorway for us to build relationship. That's great. And I think Lauren too, what you said is it starts by do you even know what your family looks like? And then I I mean you named
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: it so well of like, do they feel seen and heard? The who can help you figure out that challenge is the people who need the help the most. And so the best thing we can do is to listen to those that we're trying to serve. And so great stuff. Okay, so that is the T and the H in the think framework. And so transformation focused. If you don't have a dream disciple, if you don't have a clear picture of what transformation looks like in a way that's measuring success for you, then you gotta start there. And then you have to not just think the program, but we have to think about the home and empower them as well in it. And so if this has been helpful so far, you can actually grab the rethink assessment. It's in the leader notes. And so grab the leader notes. And this rethink assessment will help you and your team actually look and say, how well are we doing these? As well as give you several free resources and learn from other churches that are doing the same. Also, Lauren and Jeff at the start of the year are starting their new cohorts. And so they lead. family cohort ministry cohorts. And so whether it's kids ministry, student ministry, if you want to journey alongside both Jeff and Lauren and many other next gen leaders across the country, you can find more information on that in the leader notes. We would love to have you. We'd love to see you at the Multiply conference in February.
Jeff Borton: Yeah.
Vick Green: and so we'll be there and more. But you can get all of it in leader notes. And then next week we get to talk about how do you create a roadmap. From zero to eighteen. I'm excited. You guys have done this so well, not just in your ministry, but I mean helping other churches do it. And so how do we go from zero to eighteen, getting every ministry, all stages of the family on the same page? That's next week. Until then, subscribe, share this with with your next gen ministry friends, and we'll see you next week.
