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And it absolutely turned my life inside out, upside down, in the most wonderful, powerful way, changed me as a human being.
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We're giving permission to people to finally act on something they've maybe been feeling for a long time.
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Scott Reid had a transformative journey with psychedelics at the age of 68 years old.
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This moment of healing inspired him to direct a film about older adults using psychedelics in the next chapter of their lives.
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He shares his human journey.
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Welcome to the Human Journeys Podcast by States of Mind.
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Real people, real stories, life-changing conversations of personal growth and healing.
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Welcome to the Human Journeys Podcast.
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Scott, nice to meet you.
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Nice to meet you, Jason.
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Thanks for having me.
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Happy to be here.
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Thank you for sharing your story.
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Why don't you start with a brief hello and a little introduction, and then we'll continue the conversation.
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I'm Scott Wright.
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I'm a uh filmmaker.
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I make documentaries and I write uh original screenplays as well.
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And uh I'm here because of a film that I'm working on at the at the moment called The Next Chapter.
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Uh it's about psychedelics and healing and older adults, people in the and the latter stages of of their lives, you know, 55 plus, uh, and how that's a a unique and and special uh sector of the psychedelic space and and uh how fascinating it is.
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Uh and it all all came about because of a personal experience I had uh in my late 60s.
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So what was that your first experience with psychedelics at that age?
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Yeah, my my first experience, I was 68 years old.
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I had uh a few years before that read uh Michael Pollan's book, How to Change Your Mind, uh, which everybody was reading at that time, and I thought, okay, wow, this is interesting.
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Here's a guy my age, a a very smart, uh, great writer, a great journalist, uh, and he's describing these experiences and really getting into it.
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And it piqued my curiosity.
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Uh, I read the book again for a second time about a year later, and uh I said, okay, I've got I've got to check this out.
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The something about it was calling me.
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Um, and so it took me another year or two to work up the nerve to actually go do it.
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Uh and of course, in the United States, uh it's not legally uh accessible uh at that time.
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Of course, now we have uh Oregon and Colorado and soon New Mexico.
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Uh, but back then it was not accessible anywhere in the United States.
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So I was looking around to where I could do it, and uh realized that it was maybe Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica, places like that.
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And so this is pre-Chat GPT.
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So I started Googling to see where I could access uh this kind of uh psychedelic assistive therapy, and I found a facilitator, an American woman down in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico.
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Her name is Maria Camille, and she had for a long, long time uh been treating uh returning veterans uh from the war as uh military people at a uh mountaintop retreat up in Colorado, uh, doing some psychedelic mushroom psilocybin therapy with them.
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Uh and then when COVID happened, she moved to uh to Mexico and uh set up a practice down there.
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And uh so we hit it off online.
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We did a couple of Zoom meetings.
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I could feel that it was a good connection between us.
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I felt I would be in a safe environment that I was held uh with someone who I'd had a good rapport with.
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So I booked the session, went down to San Miguel, and uh did the journey with her, and it absolutely turned my life inside out, upside down, in the most wonderful, powerful way.
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Uh, changed me as a human being and set me on the path to make this film, which is nothing I ever would have expected would have happened.
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So uh my whole life has been that way.
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Almost everything is something I wouldn't have expected.
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Uh, but uh sometimes you just have to get on the wave and ride and and see where it takes you.
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And uh so here we are.
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All right.
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Okay, so that's definitely a journey.
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Uh I guess a question I have, I mean, it seems like maybe you're someone open to try new things, but uh, psychedelics really wasn't part of your um environment or your personality.
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I mean, was this a big was this a big jump?
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Were you a Sey Nota drugs sort of generation?
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Uh was this was this was this a big personal and cultural like step for you?
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Or no, I'm I'm a baby boomer and you know I'm old enough to have uh grown up when uh people my age or a little bit older were were dabbling in psychedelics and stuff before they were before they were criminalized and and and made illegal.
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So that I you know my generation grew up with with a uh a sense that this was something that people did and we knew people weren't uh jumping off of buildings and frying their brains and and all that propaganda that that suddenly came out.
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But no, I uh I was not a say no to drugs person.
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I spent most of my life in the entertainment industry, either in the radio business, I was a radio DJ in the United States uh for a long time.
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Then I was an executive in the major label record business.
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Uh then I moved on to the wine industry and and uh started a winery and started an import company, did all sorts of crazy things, but uh I drank alcohol.
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I in the 70s uh and and early 80s had my bouts with cocaine, uh, like everybody in the music industry at that time.
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Uh so no, I wasn't anti-drug, uh, but I was psychedelics was not something that ever just really entered entered my world.
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I I had one, when I was 15, 16 years old, I had a very bad experience with LSD.
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Uh I didn't know what I was doing, what I was taking, and it was a nightmare.
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Uh but other than that, psychedelics has never been a thing.
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I I didn't like uh smoking cannabis.
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I just didn't like that high, uh, didn't enjoy it.
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So I I was uh I was alcohol and cocaine, uh, but that was a long time ago.
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All that the cocaine thing ended uh about 1980 or so, and then I continued to to drink alcohol.
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Uh never had an issue with it uh until my body started telling me it didn't like alcohol anymore.
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So about seven years ago, I stopped drinking.
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Uh so by the time I got around to looking into psychedelics, I I was I was completely sober.
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So what was happening in your life personally that made you um want to take that that step?
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And and was it was a it was a therapeutic desire?
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Yeah, it was just to explore what uh from reading uh Michael Pollins' experiences and and and uh his his accounts of of what had uh occurred to him and things that that had happened to him.
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I said, okay, uh, this is obviously something there's gotta be more out there than than what we see and what we experience in normal consciousness, right?
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Uh and so I wanted to see what that all was.
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And I had been a outwardly very successful person in all the various uh hats that I wore, whether it was in in rock and roll or wine or whatever business I was in.
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Uh, but on the inside I was always feeling very uh less than, not good enough, uh, very shy, very introverted, very antisocial.
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Uh I'd been hiding behind a persona for for most of my adult life uh to the point where I was not very pleasant to be around, uh, because I was I was uh because I was so down on myself and judging myself so harshly, I also figured everybody else was judging me, so I was kind of negative towards other people.
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And my 65th birthday, my wife threw a big party for me and had a nice party, and she got up and made a nice speech about my life and my accomplishments.
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And then she also happened to mention, and as you as you know, Scott can be quite of a dick.
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And that really stuck struck home.
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It was like, oh, okay, yeah, the it's it's it's not hidden.
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You know, people realize I I I cannot be not so pleasant to be around at times.
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Uh and I know there were times uh where it embarrassed my wife and my daughter, and I was just so I I knew there was work I needed to do, and uh I didn't realize how powerful it was going to be if I went and and did the psychedelic thing, but that was part of the motivation was to go see what was was uh what was going on deep down inside there.
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So so that's that that's part of of what set me on the path.
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I mean I I I will say that it it takes uh a certain courage to to notice and want to do something about it.
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And you know, the cliche is that we get more stuck in our ways and more stubborn as we get older.
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Uh so you're breaking you're breaking the stereotype uh and and actually you know having the the bravery to to want to look inside and do something about it.
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So I'll I c I'll commend you there.
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Oh, thanks.
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It was it was fascinating to me when I after I'd done this journey in Mexico uh with Maria Camille uh and the integration sessions we were having afterwards, uh it came up that all the people that were seeking her out and coming to her from all over the US and and elsewhere in the world were all older people.
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Organically, it was all 55, 65 plus people who were seeking out this therapy.
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And uh I thought, okay, wow, that's interesting.
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That's that's an angle, that's a story I can talk about.
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There's a there's there's a movie there.
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Uh during the integration Maria suggested to me that it came to her during my journey.
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She had a download that she felt that uh was being made clear to her that maybe I should be involved in this space in some way to to help people, maybe to help older men or something.
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And uh she said, Maybe there's a movie to be made about this.
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And I said, Well, that happens to be what I do.
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I'm a documentary filmmaker.
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We hadn't discussed that in everything.
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We just discussed, you know, my psychological and psychiatric stuff that was going on, but not my career, what I was uh I was doing for a living.
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So the second she suggested making a film, I was like, bingo, okay, this is it.
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We've got a story, we've got all these older people who are dealing with whatever issues they may have, whether it's decades-long, untreatable depression, uh lifetime of of uh PTSD uh from childhood abuse and and and other issues that the people of my generation have been carrying for for a long, long time.
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And uh and they're coming to to uh plant medicine to psychedelic assisted therapy to to see if they can work through the their stuff.
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So that's how this whole process really started to come together.
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Yeah, that's I mean that yeah, it's definitely a great story.
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Uh I I I I want to get to your movie and to and to the other people uh that are involved, and maybe a way to segue into that um uh because it seems like your film and and the people you've documented are are all from the a little bit of an older generation.
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I I wonder, you know, things that we need to work on can get more entrenched the longer we don't work on them.
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And uh I you know I wonder if it's um you know the the feeling that you need to do something about it can get more pressing and more urgent, and you can feel it and you can notice it, you know, the the the longer you let it um sit and and fester.
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So uh I I wonder now if you know you're no we're noticing that older people are are are wanting to do something about it.
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Uh I I you know it's like we're giving permission to people to finally act on something they've maybe been feeling for a long time.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I I think the uh you know the the new psychedelic renaissance that that seems to have been kickstarted by by the Michael Pollan book uh definitely opened up a lot of people's eyes, like mine.
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Uh and I think almost everybody that I talked to in the course of of doing this film, they they all had had had read the book and and or or somebody turned them on to it, and and uh that's what sort of jumpstarted the the conversation.
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Uh but yeah, you're absolutely right, and that the people of my generation, whatever stuff we've got going on, you know, this generation generally when we grew up, nobody went to therapy.
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That was not a thing.
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You know, you only went to therapy, you just see a psychiatrist or a psychologist if you were mentally ill.
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That was for sick people, right?
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You know, now it's it's become very commonplace.
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But our generation, we didn't do that.
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If anything was going on, you didn't deal with it, you just stuffed it down, you ate it, and you just barreled through it.
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Uh and then you got a little bit older, and then maybe you finally said, Okay, I need some help.
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And then people went to psychiatrists and got started fed a lot of drugs, SSRIs and and and all the rest.
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Uh and but that wasn't really helping people.
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So we've been carrying around the stuff for a long time.
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Like you said, it gets more deeply entrenched the longer it is, those grooves in the brain are dug in there pretty deep.
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And it uh it seems to me like it it takes something really powerful like like uh like plant medicine, like psychedelics, to maybe, you know, open that up, rewire things, uh, and open the doors for for for change, because every other therapy that has been offered to people of my generation hasn't really helped them all that much.
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Uh and this that's not to say psychedelics is for everybody or it's going to help help everybody, uh, but for those who are called to it and and for those uh who have are willing to go there and and uh open themselves up and and and let go of their ego, wow.
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That there's you know a lot of real people with a lot of real stories whose lives have changed super positively, uh starting with mine.
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Do you mind sharing a little bit of what may have resolved for you or how you felt after your experience?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Uh you know, everybody talking about their psychedelic experience, it always ends up sounding like they're grasping for words because a lot of it is just ineffable.
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Uh, but the stuff I can put into words was uh I had trouble letting go at the beginning.
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Uh as I was really getting deep into it, I could I could I could see myself being born, and I was trying to literally come out of a chute, and I couldn't get out.
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Uh so I realized now that was just me holding on, not wanting to let go.
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Uh and so the second time it happened, I still couldn't get out, and finally it took three times and I was able to let go.
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Suddenly I was birthed out of the chute, burst out into the brightest, most beautiful white light, which I realized was just pure love bathing all over me, uh, and the most indescribable, ineffable feeling in the world.
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And then suddenly I was made to realize connection, community, how everything is connected.
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I literally saw a grid that showed me how all things are connected, and I could visibly see it, and it was just so clear and so intense.
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And and this is me, someone who's been anti-social, anti-community, didn't have a lot of friends, uh isolated myself, hid behind a mask for for a long, long time, and suddenly I was like, I started laughing hysterically, like I had been uh let in on the great cosmic joke that all the stuff that we care about and all the barriers that we that we think are so strong and and so so powerful and so real, none of it exists at all.
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That's just we're all connected, it's one thing.
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Uh there is this pure love or this pure energy of the universe that connects all things, and that just boom.
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Uh in just in that instant, I was just completely transformed.
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And a lot of other stuff happened as well.
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I had a lot of visits with uh with dead relatives and my abusive uh stepfather and uh saw all my kids and and uh my grandparents and and had a lot of good conversations with all of them.
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Uh and uh so on and on and on.
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It was uh but but the overwhelming thing was was was seeing the the the connection and experiencing that that that that white light of pure love once I was able to to let go of of the ego and and just and open up to that to to the it was I it it was very clear to me like the veil came off, but like we're living behind a a filter and the filters were taken away and and what's really out there is so much more immense that I that I see why we have those filters.
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It's too much.
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You couldn't handle that level of consciousness all the time.
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But but when when you get the chance to experience it for a few hours and understand and absorb and integrate some of it, that's where the power is.
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And and then the filter has to come back on.
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Otherwise, I don't I human beings couldn't function at that level on a full-time basis, I don't think.
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Although some people probably do.
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There are some artists and some people who are seen like almost permanently connected and plugged into that.
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But wow.
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So that's uh okay, you had a pro you had a proper experience.
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I should go see I should go you see your facilitator.
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She's give me her phone number.
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Um okay.
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Uh well that's great.
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Um I'm I'm happy for you.
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And um, you know, the the letting go must have been a nice feeling.
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You know, maybe that's what that's often what keeps us in our, you know, the the patterns and the personality traits and that we don't, you know, it's it's just us clenching and and you know being tight on the inside for whatever personal ego insecurity and trauma reasons.
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So the the letting go resonates with me because I've felt that before.
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I don't know if was a letting go, did that feel like a relief for you?
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Yeah, a a huge relief.
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Uh the second strip away that uh whatever it is that we're all trying to hang on to, the sense of self or whatever we think we are, when you can step outside of that and and realize that we we are just you know specks of dust and energy, uh all in the in the in the same universe, all connected by the same life force or energy or God or whatever you want to call it.
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Uh I'm not religious, uh, so I don't put a God God tag on it, but uh what when you when you see that connection and you realize that everything that we think is ourselves is just such a construct.
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Uh and when you when you take that away and and you're connected to what's really actually real, that that was the big big revelation for me.
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And are you less of a dick?
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I think my wife and my daughter would say so, yeah.
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Yeah?
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Okay.
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All right, good.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Mission accomplished.
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Yeah.
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Oh, you know, I I don't think I've slayed the dragon completely, but but uh it definitely moved in the right direction.
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All right.
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Well, I'm happy for your wife.
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Um so me too.
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Right.
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Uh okay, yeah.
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So so you yeah, so you so you had your experience and you and you had your eyes open to the potential, and uh it you moved on to wanting to share or or or help people share their share their stories.
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And uh you've made you've made a movie about uh people of an older generation having their first psychedelic experiences or or just breakthrough ones?
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Uh for some people it was their first, uh and for some they had uh experienced it before.
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Uh but uh Maria, the uh the facilitator in in San Miguel, she uh reached out to uh clients, or people who had uh been reaching out to her and and were on the list to to make an appointment to come uh do an experience with her, and a couple people who had already worked with her at one time.
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And uh so she just reached out to to everybody and uh found uh eight or nine people who were willing to come in and be part of a group experience and and willing to be filmed uh going through this uh this four day retreat and uh t willing willing to just open their hearts and their souls and lay it all out there in front in front of the camera and for the world.
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And that's very vulnerable.
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So I I was fascinated that uh there were enough people who were willing to to do that and just lay it all out there.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:13.680
Uh and So we created this event and uh people came in from across the US, Canada, the UK, uh to be part of this experience, and we interviewed everyone on camera very intensely before.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:15.839
Uh we filmed during the experience.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:25.039
Of course, there's not a whole lot to see during the experience, just a bunch of people laying down with eye masks on, tripping their brains out, which is not terribly exciting visually.
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.440
It is for them, but not for the camera.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:43.920
And uh and then interviewed them again uh after the ceremony the next day or a couple days later, uh, and then went back to everybody a year later to see how their lives uh have been impacted uh by that experience.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:44.880
Uh-huh.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:51.920
And uh every story was different, and every one of them was was pretty powerful and and uh and very interesting.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:59.279
It was a really uh diverse group of people, the most normal, everyday walk-of-life people that you can imagine.
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:22.160
Someone was uh there was a woman who was a uh kindergarten teacher, there was a guy who was a famous comic book artist, uh, there was a guy who was a retired accountant, uh, woman who worked in a union office, uh, a woman who was a uh a tech uh recruiter for for you know tech executives, and just a real total gamut.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:39.200
Uh and everyone had their lives impacted pretty powerfully uh by this experience and uh and their vulnerability and willing willingness to be open and and and share it all uh for the film was was uh really pretty magical.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.519
Yeah, so a whole group and everyone is 55 and older?
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:49.440
Yeah, everybody was 55 and uh late 50s to late 60s of this particular group, yeah.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:24:01.119
And uh yeah, I mean that so yeah, uh you kind of have uh this bigger sample size of of people taking that step and being brave.
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:03.759
And uh yeah, I can imagine.
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:20.000
I mean, I watched the trailer for your movie, and it seemed that everyone there had really um impactful experiences and you know, even breakthrough stuff, and you know, there's change it changed their lives and changed how they view things.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:39.759
And um, yo, it's it's wonderful to see, you know, I can, I don't know, maybe I can project the the relief I hear in people's voices when they are finally able to feel different and uh have a have a burden removed, and you know, you could hear a lightness.
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:46.000
I think maybe one of your subjects in the documentary even said lightness or something feel feeling lighter.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:55.759
So yeah, I mean, I could just imagine, you know, a lifetime of having something that you can't quite resolve, and then it finally does get resolved decades and decades, and a lifetime later.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.440
It's it's pretty uh awesome stuff.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:18.960
Yeah, you know, it was it was really, really uh powerful to see when uh and you look at film from people from before the the journey and then from the the day after, and you can see almost a different light in their eyes and a different spirit and energy in their face and and and their beings.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.680
Uh, you know, something had changed.
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.160
Uh it's not dramatic, but you can see it.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:28.960
If you put the film side by side, it's like, wow, okay, day before, day after.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:36.720
Something happened, something opened up in this person's heart and their brain and and their connection to to the universe.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.440
It's uh it's it's pretty is it was very cool.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:44.000
And these were you know, some people with suicidal depression for decades.
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.559
They they had decided they didn't want to live anymore.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.799
This was their their last, you know, their their desperate last stab.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:26:01.839
People who had been fighting uh PTSD from horrible childhood abuse trauma, uh, you know, the the whole gamut of of of issues.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:09.359
Uh and everyone seems to to have you know been helped by this experience.
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:16.079
And uh it was very interesting to to go back to them a year later and and see what had happened in their lives.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:21.839
Uh and most of those people by by a year later were still feeling positive effects.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:31.920
Many of them had changed their lives, either quit their jobs and gone on to do something else, or just retired to pursue their their hobbies or their passions.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.920
Uh, a couple of people went and got trained to be facilitators in the psychedelic space.
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.759
Uh almost everyone is microdosing now.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:52.799
Uh the the a very interesting group of people and and uh but maybe the most fascinating thing was how connected we all all became.
00:26:52.960 --> 00:27:04.559
Uh I didn't journey with them at that experience, but I was part of the group and I wasn't part of all the integration sessions and the and the cacao ceremonies and the circles and discussions we did before and after.
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.960
And so w we all felt connected.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:27.839
And uh we have a a a WhatsApp, you know, chat group that uh this is now two years uh later from that uh that experience that we filmed and and everyone's still you know still in regular contact and and and conversation and it's uh that the bond that was formed was was really, really powerful.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:36.240
And uh it really struck me again being an a uh a uh a uh anti-community guy.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.920
I I I was I was scared of connection before.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.880
And uh through this whole experience, I I've become much more social and uh I seek out community now.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.640
Mm-hmm.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.400
That's that's great.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:55.359
And uh the movie will be launching, I believe, this summer.
00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:01.200
Yeah, the uh world premiere is is going to be in Toronto, Canada on June 18th.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:07.359
And then it will be available worldwide approximately uh a week or 10 days after that.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.359
We haven't set the final release date, but it'll be in the second half of June.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:13.039
Mm-hmm.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:13.920
Okay.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
I mean, I I definitely look forward to seeing it.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:27.440
And like I said, this is these stories are not just that are they powerful and like personal stories, but they kind of signal the direction we're going in.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:40.559
I mean, it's it's uh I don't say easy for you know a young person to experiment to go do ayahuasca in the Amazon or something, but to have, I mean, uh like it shows in your trailer, right?
00:28:40.640 --> 00:29:22.960
It was there was a kindergarten teacher and uh a retired accountant and uh not your typical psychedelic um patients, and uh to have these sort of people across the board have a positive experience, and it's kind of coinciding with things moving forward in the government and in general acceptance, and you know, Michael Pollan's book was a big deal, obviously, and you know, these conversations help, your movie will help, and it's all about kind of giving people permission, and um, I think the stories about this generation will kind of even give more permission somehow.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:39.599
Um, you know, another story about a 25-year-old trying ayahuasca, uh, sure, that's inspiring to some, but um we need we need um like permission to normalize it in a in a in a and normalize it across the board.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:55.680
And I think your story really helps to to and I mean normalize in in the in the truest sense, like um not that just this this gives permission to say that hey, you know what, maybe anyone can try this and it's okay.
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.319
And uh yeah.
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:06.319
Yeah, ultimately that that's why I I made the movie to to try and help uh spread the message of hope and healing.
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:18.319
My generation is a lot of people with with a lot of issues and stuff that they've been dealing with unsuccessfully, and what's been offered to them hasn't been terribly effective or effective at all.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:24.880
And hopefully uh this shows people that ex I I it gives them permission, exactly what you said.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:40.079
Wow, this is something that's real, it's possible you can access this here, are real, just normal people who who have uh who have uh given themselves uh the opportunity to uh to uh take a jump into this world and and and see where it takes them.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.720
And uh and uh it's it's worked out worked up pretty well for all of them.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:31:00.240
So yeah, there there's uh that there's a need for it, especially amongst older people who uh you know, you you get to in your 50s, your sixties, your your kids have grown and gone, you're about to retire, uh people are living much longer now.
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.000
You get into your 60s and you think, okay, I might be living the next 30 years.
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:05.440
Am I gonna stay miserable?
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.119
I am gonna stay stuck in this rut.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.240
What's next for me?
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.759
What's my next chapter in life?
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:10.960
What am I supposed to be doing?
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.599
What do I, you know, who who am I?
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.359
What where where's this all going?
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:24.160
Uh and and this is a great way for people to to uh find that that that way forward.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.720
Uh, and that's why we called the movie the next chapter.
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.200
That's that's what what people my age are looking for.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:35.920
Again, I I commend your your courage because it does it does take like courage to heal.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:42.559
I interviewed someone uh a while ago, and that's that that phrase came up, like the the courage to heal.
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.960
And I don't I I don't think we should like overlook that.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.440
It um because there's many people who who don't take that step.
00:31:51.759 --> 00:32:06.799
So um I think we should mention it whenever someone whenever someone takes that step, especially when it when it's extra uncomfortable and it's not in their necessarily in their environment, and and they they taking that step is even more courageous.
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.440
So uh yeah, thank you.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.880
And like we we we definitely look forward to seeing the movie and supporting it and helping the story get out.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.039
And like we're at an interesting time.
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:25.839
Your story is coming out, and you know, the US government is openly supporting psychedelics now, and that's another permission structure.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:32.079
And and that that that permission structure goes like across all the groups, right?
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:40.240
So now it's like people from really from different walks of life are gonna be able to say, hey, wait a second, the president is saying this is okay.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.960
Uh say what you want about you know politics removed from any of this.
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.039
It's just uh more permission for people to uh to say yes.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:53.839
So exactly, exactly.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.920
I uh I'm I'm very uh encouraged by uh by developments and and things seem to be moving in in a very positive direction.
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.599
And I think a lot of people are going going to get some help.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:16.079
Uh what troubles me a bit is the uh corporatization and the medicalization of of plant medicine that that seems to be you know really happening.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:30.319
It's uh and and to to the to the ignorance of the indigenous roots uh of these plant medicines and how these have been uh have been a part of human culture for thousands and thousands of years.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:37.920
Uh and you know they're gonna get commodified and they're gonna be you know clinical medical office treatments kind of things.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.240
And and that kind of misses the spirit.
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:54.240
You know, most of what's still happening in psychedelics worldwide is still underground, it's still not an official, you know, licensed medical environment or whatever, and there should be safeguards on things that things should be regulated to a certain extent.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:59.680
But I hope we don't lose the the spirit of the connectedness to nature where this all came from.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:15.920
You know, these are natural compounds that have been on the planet for we don't know how many thousands of years, uh and and we don't need uh some big pharma company making a synthetic version of psilocybin to to to to uh to to to move this forward.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:25.920
It's it's always been there, it's always gonna be there, and we we I think we should respect the the origins and and the spirit of what these plant medicines are all about.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.039
Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be the trick.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:42.079
I I'm I've been in this industry for about five or six years now, and that's there's these conversations are happening, and uh yeah, there's people in the space who are still actively pushing to keep it.
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:49.280
And you know, there's even been studies that are saying that the ceremonial aspect enhances effects.
00:34:49.519 --> 00:35:08.320
And uh so you you'll you even have people trying to quantify to say, hey, hey, like it because it is getting medicalized, and to take these next steps and get them approved, you know, you need to show data, and data is you know, it's hard to it's hard to put uh shamanic practices into an clinical trial that's gonna get FDA approval.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.960
So we're in this weird catch-22.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:24.079
Um but like uh people are uh in the space are aware of it, and uh you know, there's been studies that you know a communal, a communal or a ceremonial aspect really does improve outcomes.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:35.840
And you for now we still have people who are in the drug development side of things still paying lip service to the roots.
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.679
We'll see how long that lasts.
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.480
So yeah, let's keep let's keep those topics uh there.
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:48.159
And you know, um we sh shaping the conversations is the way you kind of keep these things.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.960
So yeah, look let's keep talking about it, I guess.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:51.840
Yep.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:53.039
Here, here.
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.119
I'm I'm with you 100% on that.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.320
All right, Scott, uh again, thank you.
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:07.440
And uh we will we will keep our eyes open for your film, and I really, I really appreciate the this conversation.
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.119
Yeah, oh thank you so much.
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:24.639
I I appreciate uh being here, the opportunity to to talk to you and to uh to to help uh spread the the message of hope and healing that the this uh the the that this film is uh is all about and and what uh plant medicine therapy is all about.
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:26.320
So deep gratitude.
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.199
Thank you so much.
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.719
And uh any way that we can support what you guys are doing, let me know.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:31.679
Wonderful.
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.880
I I appreciate it.
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:33.519
I really do.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.280
Uh let's let's speak again soon.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.000
You got it.
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.039
Thank you so much.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:07.599
And it absolutely turned my life inside out, upside down, in the most wonderful, powerful way, changed me as a human being.
00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:13.439
We're giving permission to people to finally act on something they've maybe been feeling for a long time.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:18.320
Scott Reid had a transformative journey with psychedelics at the age of 68 years old.
00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:25.280
This moment of healing inspired him to direct a film about older adults using psychedelics in the next chapter of their lives.
00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:27.280
He shares his human journey.
00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.039
Welcome to the Human Journeys Podcast by States of Mind.
00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:37.280
Real people, real stories, life-changing conversations of personal growth and healing.
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:39.840
Welcome to the Human Journeys Podcast.
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.439
Scott, nice to meet you.
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:42.880
Nice to meet you, Jason.
00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:43.679
Thanks for having me.
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Happy to be here.
00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.280
Thank you for sharing your story.
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:54.159
Why don't you start with a brief hello and a little introduction, and then we'll continue the conversation.
00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:55.520
I'm Scott Wright.
00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:56.960
I'm a uh filmmaker.
00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:01.200
I make documentaries and I write uh original screenplays as well.
00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:07.519
And uh I'm here because of a film that I'm working on at the at the moment called The Next Chapter.
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:25.359
Uh it's about psychedelics and healing and older adults, people in the and the latter stages of of their lives, you know, 55 plus, uh, and how that's a a unique and and special uh sector of the psychedelic space and and uh how fascinating it is.
00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:31.280
Uh and it all all came about because of a personal experience I had uh in my late 60s.
00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.400
So what was that your first experience with psychedelics at that age?
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.159
Yeah, my my first experience, I was 68 years old.
00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:51.040
I had uh a few years before that read uh Michael Pollan's book, How to Change Your Mind, uh, which everybody was reading at that time, and I thought, okay, wow, this is interesting.
00:01:51.120 --> 00:02:01.439
Here's a guy my age, a a very smart, uh, great writer, a great journalist, uh, and he's describing these experiences and really getting into it.
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:03.599
And it piqued my curiosity.
00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:10.159
Uh, I read the book again for a second time about a year later, and uh I said, okay, I've got I've got to check this out.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:12.479
The something about it was calling me.
00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:18.319
Um, and so it took me another year or two to work up the nerve to actually go do it.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:25.280
Uh and of course, in the United States, uh it's not legally uh accessible uh at that time.
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:29.919
Of course, now we have uh Oregon and Colorado and soon New Mexico.
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Uh, but back then it was not accessible anywhere in the United States.
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So I was looking around to where I could do it, and uh realized that it was maybe Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica, places like that.
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.000
And so this is pre-Chat GPT.
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So I started Googling to see where I could access uh this kind of uh psychedelic assistive therapy, and I found a facilitator, an American woman down in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:18.479
Her name is Maria Camille, and she had for a long, long time uh been treating uh returning veterans uh from the war as uh military people at a uh mountaintop retreat up in Colorado, uh, doing some psychedelic mushroom psilocybin therapy with them.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:25.840
Uh and then when COVID happened, she moved to uh to Mexico and uh set up a practice down there.
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.759
And uh so we hit it off online.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:29.280
We did a couple of Zoom meetings.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.599
I could feel that it was a good connection between us.
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I felt I would be in a safe environment that I was held uh with someone who I'd had a good rapport with.
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So I booked the session, went down to San Miguel, and uh did the journey with her, and it absolutely turned my life inside out, upside down, in the most wonderful, powerful way.
00:03:52.240 --> 00:04:00.080
Uh, changed me as a human being and set me on the path to make this film, which is nothing I ever would have expected would have happened.
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.560
So uh my whole life has been that way.
00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.919
Almost everything is something I wouldn't have expected.
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:11.520
Uh, but uh sometimes you just have to get on the wave and ride and and see where it takes you.
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:13.120
And uh so here we are.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:13.759
All right.
00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.800
Okay, so that's definitely a journey.
00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:30.240
Uh I guess a question I have, I mean, it seems like maybe you're someone open to try new things, but uh, psychedelics really wasn't part of your um environment or your personality.
00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.160
I mean, was this a big was this a big jump?
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:35.920
Were you a Sey Nota drugs sort of generation?
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.759
Uh was this was this was this a big personal and cultural like step for you?
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:56.560
Or no, I'm I'm a baby boomer and you know I'm old enough to have uh grown up when uh people my age or a little bit older were were dabbling in psychedelics and stuff before they were before they were criminalized and and and made illegal.
00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:10.800
So that I you know my generation grew up with with a uh a sense that this was something that people did and we knew people weren't uh jumping off of buildings and frying their brains and and all that propaganda that that suddenly came out.
00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:14.560
But no, I uh I was not a say no to drugs person.
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:23.360
I spent most of my life in the entertainment industry, either in the radio business, I was a radio DJ in the United States uh for a long time.
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.879
Then I was an executive in the major label record business.
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:38.000
Uh then I moved on to the wine industry and and uh started a winery and started an import company, did all sorts of crazy things, but uh I drank alcohol.
00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:46.800
I in the 70s uh and and early 80s had my bouts with cocaine, uh, like everybody in the music industry at that time.
00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:54.240
Uh so no, I wasn't anti-drug, uh, but I was psychedelics was not something that ever just really entered entered my world.
00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:00.959
I I had one, when I was 15, 16 years old, I had a very bad experience with LSD.
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.360
Uh I didn't know what I was doing, what I was taking, and it was a nightmare.
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.000
Uh but other than that, psychedelics has never been a thing.
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:12.480
I I didn't like uh smoking cannabis.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:15.839
I just didn't like that high, uh, didn't enjoy it.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:21.439
So I I was uh I was alcohol and cocaine, uh, but that was a long time ago.
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:28.399
All that the cocaine thing ended uh about 1980 or so, and then I continued to to drink alcohol.
00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:34.480
Uh never had an issue with it uh until my body started telling me it didn't like alcohol anymore.
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.120
So about seven years ago, I stopped drinking.
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:43.920
Uh so by the time I got around to looking into psychedelics, I I was I was completely sober.
00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:52.399
So what was happening in your life personally that made you um want to take that that step?
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.160
And and was it was a it was a therapeutic desire?
00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:09.439
Yeah, it was just to explore what uh from reading uh Michael Pollins' experiences and and and uh his his accounts of of what had uh occurred to him and things that that had happened to him.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:18.160
I said, okay, uh, this is obviously something there's gotta be more out there than than what we see and what we experience in normal consciousness, right?
00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.360
Uh and so I wanted to see what that all was.
00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:33.680
And I had been a outwardly very successful person in all the various uh hats that I wore, whether it was in in rock and roll or wine or whatever business I was in.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:45.120
Uh, but on the inside I was always feeling very uh less than, not good enough, uh, very shy, very introverted, very antisocial.
00:07:45.360 --> 00:08:05.680
Uh I'd been hiding behind a persona for for most of my adult life uh to the point where I was not very pleasant to be around, uh, because I was I was uh because I was so down on myself and judging myself so harshly, I also figured everybody else was judging me, so I was kind of negative towards other people.
00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:15.839
And my 65th birthday, my wife threw a big party for me and had a nice party, and she got up and made a nice speech about my life and my accomplishments.
00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:20.879
And then she also happened to mention, and as you as you know, Scott can be quite of a dick.
00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:25.279
And that really stuck struck home.
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.879
It was like, oh, okay, yeah, the it's it's it's not hidden.
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:36.639
You know, people realize I I I cannot be not so pleasant to be around at times.
00:08:36.879 --> 00:09:00.159
Uh and I know there were times uh where it embarrassed my wife and my daughter, and I was just so I I knew there was work I needed to do, and uh I didn't realize how powerful it was going to be if I went and and did the psychedelic thing, but that was part of the motivation was to go see what was was uh what was going on deep down inside there.
00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.919
So so that's that that's part of of what set me on the path.
00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:15.440
I mean I I I will say that it it takes uh a certain courage to to notice and want to do something about it.
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:22.000
And you know, the cliche is that we get more stuck in our ways and more stubborn as we get older.
00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:33.600
Uh so you're breaking you're breaking the stereotype uh and and actually you know having the the bravery to to want to look inside and do something about it.
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.840
So I'll I c I'll commend you there.
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:37.200
Oh, thanks.
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:57.360
It was it was fascinating to me when I after I'd done this journey in Mexico uh with Maria Camille uh and the integration sessions we were having afterwards, uh it came up that all the people that were seeking her out and coming to her from all over the US and and elsewhere in the world were all older people.
00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:03.120
Organically, it was all 55, 65 plus people who were seeking out this therapy.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.919
And uh I thought, okay, wow, that's interesting.
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.399
That's that's an angle, that's a story I can talk about.
00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:10.639
There's a there's there's a movie there.
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:16.879
Uh during the integration Maria suggested to me that it came to her during my journey.
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:28.960
She had a download that she felt that uh was being made clear to her that maybe I should be involved in this space in some way to to help people, maybe to help older men or something.
00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.399
And uh she said, Maybe there's a movie to be made about this.
00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:34.639
And I said, Well, that happens to be what I do.
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.039
I'm a documentary filmmaker.
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.279
We hadn't discussed that in everything.
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:47.440
We just discussed, you know, my psychological and psychiatric stuff that was going on, but not my career, what I was uh I was doing for a living.
00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.159
So the second she suggested making a film, I was like, bingo, okay, this is it.
00:10:52.399 --> 00:11:12.879
We've got a story, we've got all these older people who are dealing with whatever issues they may have, whether it's decades-long, untreatable depression, uh lifetime of of uh PTSD uh from childhood abuse and and and other issues that the people of my generation have been carrying for for a long, long time.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:22.000
And uh and they're coming to to uh plant medicine to psychedelic assisted therapy to to see if they can work through the their stuff.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:25.360
So that's how this whole process really started to come together.
00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.480
Yeah, that's I mean that yeah, it's definitely a great story.
00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:44.320
Uh I I I I want to get to your movie and to and to the other people uh that are involved, and maybe a way to segue into that um uh because it seems like your film and and the people you've documented are are all from the a little bit of an older generation.
00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:53.440
I I wonder, you know, things that we need to work on can get more entrenched the longer we don't work on them.
00:11:53.759 --> 00:12:12.960
And uh I you know I wonder if it's um you know the the feeling that you need to do something about it can get more pressing and more urgent, and you can feel it and you can notice it, you know, the the the longer you let it um sit and and fester.
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:20.480
So uh I I wonder now if you know you're no we're noticing that older people are are are wanting to do something about it.
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:29.039
Uh I I you know it's like we're giving permission to people to finally act on something they've maybe been feeling for a long time.
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:30.399
Yeah, exactly.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:41.679
I I think the uh you know the the new psychedelic renaissance that that seems to have been kickstarted by by the Michael Pollan book uh definitely opened up a lot of people's eyes, like mine.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:55.919
Uh and I think almost everybody that I talked to in the course of of doing this film, they they all had had had read the book and and or or somebody turned them on to it, and and uh that's what sort of jumpstarted the the conversation.
00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:07.519
Uh but yeah, you're absolutely right, and that the people of my generation, whatever stuff we've got going on, you know, this generation generally when we grew up, nobody went to therapy.
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.879
That was not a thing.
00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.919
You know, you only went to therapy, you just see a psychiatrist or a psychologist if you were mentally ill.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.759
That was for sick people, right?
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.159
You know, now it's it's become very commonplace.
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:19.600
But our generation, we didn't do that.
00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:26.080
If anything was going on, you didn't deal with it, you just stuffed it down, you ate it, and you just barreled through it.
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.480
Uh and then you got a little bit older, and then maybe you finally said, Okay, I need some help.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:38.879
And then people went to psychiatrists and got started fed a lot of drugs, SSRIs and and and all the rest.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.840
Uh and but that wasn't really helping people.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.799
So we've been carrying around the stuff for a long time.
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:52.960
Like you said, it gets more deeply entrenched the longer it is, those grooves in the brain are dug in there pretty deep.
00:13:53.200 --> 00:14:16.960
And it uh it seems to me like it it takes something really powerful like like uh like plant medicine, like psychedelics, to maybe, you know, open that up, rewire things, uh, and open the doors for for for change, because every other therapy that has been offered to people of my generation hasn't really helped them all that much.
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:34.320
Uh and this that's not to say psychedelics is for everybody or it's going to help help everybody, uh, but for those who are called to it and and for those uh who have are willing to go there and and uh open themselves up and and and let go of their ego, wow.
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:43.120
That there's you know a lot of real people with a lot of real stories whose lives have changed super positively, uh starting with mine.
00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:51.039
Do you mind sharing a little bit of what may have resolved for you or how you felt after your experience?
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:52.879
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:15:02.960
Uh you know, everybody talking about their psychedelic experience, it always ends up sounding like they're grasping for words because a lot of it is just ineffable.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:10.480
Uh, but the stuff I can put into words was uh I had trouble letting go at the beginning.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:22.960
Uh as I was really getting deep into it, I could I could I could see myself being born, and I was trying to literally come out of a chute, and I couldn't get out.
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:28.320
Uh so I realized now that was just me holding on, not wanting to let go.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:35.039
Uh and so the second time it happened, I still couldn't get out, and finally it took three times and I was able to let go.
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:51.519
Suddenly I was birthed out of the chute, burst out into the brightest, most beautiful white light, which I realized was just pure love bathing all over me, uh, and the most indescribable, ineffable feeling in the world.
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:57.840
And then suddenly I was made to realize connection, community, how everything is connected.
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:07.919
I literally saw a grid that showed me how all things are connected, and I could visibly see it, and it was just so clear and so intense.
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:37.600
And and this is me, someone who's been anti-social, anti-community, didn't have a lot of friends, uh isolated myself, hid behind a mask for for a long, long time, and suddenly I was like, I started laughing hysterically, like I had been uh let in on the great cosmic joke that all the stuff that we care about and all the barriers that we that we think are so strong and and so so powerful and so real, none of it exists at all.
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.120
That's just we're all connected, it's one thing.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:49.120
Uh there is this pure love or this pure energy of the universe that connects all things, and that just boom.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:56.320
Uh in just in that instant, I was just completely transformed.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.320
And a lot of other stuff happened as well.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:12.880
I had a lot of visits with uh with dead relatives and my abusive uh stepfather and uh saw all my kids and and uh my grandparents and and had a lot of good conversations with all of them.
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.640
Uh and uh so on and on and on.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:49.519
It was uh but but the overwhelming thing was was was seeing the the the connection and experiencing that that that that white light of pure love once I was able to to let go of of the ego and and just and open up to that to to the it was I it it was very clear to me like the veil came off, but like we're living behind a a filter and the filters were taken away and and what's really out there is so much more immense that I that I see why we have those filters.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:50.319
It's too much.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.680
You couldn't handle that level of consciousness all the time.
00:17:53.920 --> 00:18:02.240
But but when when you get the chance to experience it for a few hours and understand and absorb and integrate some of it, that's where the power is.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.319
And and then the filter has to come back on.
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:10.720
Otherwise, I don't I human beings couldn't function at that level on a full-time basis, I don't think.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.319
Although some people probably do.
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.519
There are some artists and some people who are seen like almost permanently connected and plugged into that.
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:18.400
But wow.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.359
So that's uh okay, you had a pro you had a proper experience.
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.799
I should go see I should go you see your facilitator.
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.400
She's give me her phone number.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:30.079
Um okay.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.119
Uh well that's great.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.359
Um I'm I'm happy for you.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:41.839
And um, you know, the the letting go must have been a nice feeling.
00:18:42.000 --> 00:19:01.839
You know, maybe that's what that's often what keeps us in our, you know, the the patterns and the personality traits and that we don't, you know, it's it's just us clenching and and you know being tight on the inside for whatever personal ego insecurity and trauma reasons.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:08.079
So the the letting go resonates with me because I've felt that before.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.920
I don't know if was a letting go, did that feel like a relief for you?
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.640
Yeah, a a huge relief.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:38.240
Uh the second strip away that uh whatever it is that we're all trying to hang on to, the sense of self or whatever we think we are, when you can step outside of that and and realize that we we are just you know specks of dust and energy, uh all in the in the in the same universe, all connected by the same life force or energy or God or whatever you want to call it.
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:53.039
Uh I'm not religious, uh, so I don't put a God God tag on it, but uh what when you when you see that connection and you realize that everything that we think is ourselves is just such a construct.
00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:02.640
Uh and when you when you take that away and and you're connected to what's really actually real, that that was the big big revelation for me.
00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:05.759
And are you less of a dick?
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.039
I think my wife and my daughter would say so, yeah.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:10.160
Yeah?
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:10.640
Okay.
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:11.839
All right, good.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:12.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:14.160
Mission accomplished.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:14.640
Yeah.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:21.839
Oh, you know, I I don't think I've slayed the dragon completely, but but uh it definitely moved in the right direction.
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:22.480
All right.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.400
Well, I'm happy for your wife.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.599
Um so me too.
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:29.279
Right.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.359
Uh okay, yeah.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:47.359
So so you yeah, so you so you had your experience and you and you had your eyes open to the potential, and uh it you moved on to wanting to share or or or help people share their share their stories.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:58.319
And uh you've made you've made a movie about uh people of an older generation having their first psychedelic experiences or or just breakthrough ones?
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:04.160
Uh for some people it was their first, uh and for some they had uh experienced it before.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:25.680
Uh but uh Maria, the uh the facilitator in in San Miguel, she uh reached out to uh clients, or people who had uh been reaching out to her and and were on the list to to make an appointment to come uh do an experience with her, and a couple people who had already worked with her at one time.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:48.799
And uh so she just reached out to to everybody and uh found uh eight or nine people who were willing to come in and be part of a group experience and and willing to be filmed uh going through this uh this four day retreat and uh t willing willing to just open their hearts and their souls and lay it all out there in front in front of the camera and for the world.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:50.160
And that's very vulnerable.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:58.240
So I I was fascinated that uh there were enough people who were willing to to do that and just lay it all out there.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:13.680
Uh and So we created this event and uh people came in from across the US, Canada, the UK, uh to be part of this experience, and we interviewed everyone on camera very intensely before.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:15.839
Uh we filmed during the experience.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:25.039
Of course, there's not a whole lot to see during the experience, just a bunch of people laying down with eye masks on, tripping their brains out, which is not terribly exciting visually.
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.440
It is for them, but not for the camera.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:43.920
And uh and then interviewed them again uh after the ceremony the next day or a couple days later, uh, and then went back to everybody a year later to see how their lives uh have been impacted uh by that experience.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:44.880
Uh-huh.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:51.920
And uh every story was different, and every one of them was was pretty powerful and and uh and very interesting.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:59.279
It was a really uh diverse group of people, the most normal, everyday walk-of-life people that you can imagine.
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:22.160
Someone was uh there was a woman who was a uh kindergarten teacher, there was a guy who was a famous comic book artist, uh, there was a guy who was a retired accountant, uh, woman who worked in a union office, uh, a woman who was a uh a tech uh recruiter for for you know tech executives, and just a real total gamut.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:39.200
Uh and everyone had their lives impacted pretty powerfully uh by this experience and uh and their vulnerability and willing willingness to be open and and and share it all uh for the film was was uh really pretty magical.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.519
Yeah, so a whole group and everyone is 55 and older?
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:49.440
Yeah, everybody was 55 and uh late 50s to late 60s of this particular group, yeah.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:24:01.119
And uh yeah, I mean that so yeah, uh you kind of have uh this bigger sample size of of people taking that step and being brave.
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:03.759
And uh yeah, I can imagine.
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:20.000
I mean, I watched the trailer for your movie, and it seemed that everyone there had really um impactful experiences and you know, even breakthrough stuff, and you know, there's change it changed their lives and changed how they view things.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:39.759
And um, yo, it's it's wonderful to see, you know, I can, I don't know, maybe I can project the the relief I hear in people's voices when they are finally able to feel different and uh have a have a burden removed, and you know, you could hear a lightness.
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:46.000
I think maybe one of your subjects in the documentary even said lightness or something feel feeling lighter.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:55.759
So yeah, I mean, I could just imagine, you know, a lifetime of having something that you can't quite resolve, and then it finally does get resolved decades and decades, and a lifetime later.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.440
It's it's pretty uh awesome stuff.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:18.960
Yeah, you know, it was it was really, really uh powerful to see when uh and you look at film from people from before the the journey and then from the the day after, and you can see almost a different light in their eyes and a different spirit and energy in their face and and and their beings.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.680
Uh, you know, something had changed.
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.160
Uh it's not dramatic, but you can see it.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:28.960
If you put the film side by side, it's like, wow, okay, day before, day after.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:36.720
Something happened, something opened up in this person's heart and their brain and and their connection to to the universe.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.440
It's uh it's it's pretty is it was very cool.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:44.000
And these were you know, some people with suicidal depression for decades.
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.559
They they had decided they didn't want to live anymore.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.799
This was their their last, you know, their their desperate last stab.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:26:01.839
People who had been fighting uh PTSD from horrible childhood abuse trauma, uh, you know, the the whole gamut of of of issues.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:09.359
Uh and everyone seems to to have you know been helped by this experience.
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:16.079
And uh it was very interesting to to go back to them a year later and and see what had happened in their lives.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:21.839
Uh and most of those people by by a year later were still feeling positive effects.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:31.920
Many of them had changed their lives, either quit their jobs and gone on to do something else, or just retired to pursue their their hobbies or their passions.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.920
Uh, a couple of people went and got trained to be facilitators in the psychedelic space.
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.759
Uh almost everyone is microdosing now.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:52.799
Uh the the a very interesting group of people and and uh but maybe the most fascinating thing was how connected we all all became.
00:26:52.960 --> 00:27:04.559
Uh I didn't journey with them at that experience, but I was part of the group and I wasn't part of all the integration sessions and the and the cacao ceremonies and the circles and discussions we did before and after.
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.960
And so w we all felt connected.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:27.839
And uh we have a a a WhatsApp, you know, chat group that uh this is now two years uh later from that uh that experience that we filmed and and everyone's still you know still in regular contact and and and conversation and it's uh that the bond that was formed was was really, really powerful.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:36.240
And uh it really struck me again being an a uh a uh a uh anti-community guy.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.920
I I I was I was scared of connection before.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.880
And uh through this whole experience, I I've become much more social and uh I seek out community now.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.640
Mm-hmm.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.400
That's that's great.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:55.359
And uh the movie will be launching, I believe, this summer.
00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:01.200
Yeah, the uh world premiere is is going to be in Toronto, Canada on June 18th.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:07.359
And then it will be available worldwide approximately uh a week or 10 days after that.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.359
We haven't set the final release date, but it'll be in the second half of June.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:13.039
Mm-hmm.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:13.920
Okay.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
I mean, I I definitely look forward to seeing it.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:27.440
And like I said, this is these stories are not just that are they powerful and like personal stories, but they kind of signal the direction we're going in.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:40.559
I mean, it's it's uh I don't say easy for you know a young person to experiment to go do ayahuasca in the Amazon or something, but to have, I mean, uh like it shows in your trailer, right?
00:28:40.640 --> 00:29:22.960
It was there was a kindergarten teacher and uh a retired accountant and uh not your typical psychedelic um patients, and uh to have these sort of people across the board have a positive experience, and it's kind of coinciding with things moving forward in the government and in general acceptance, and you know, Michael Pollan's book was a big deal, obviously, and you know, these conversations help, your movie will help, and it's all about kind of giving people permission, and um, I think the stories about this generation will kind of even give more permission somehow.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:39.599
Um, you know, another story about a 25-year-old trying ayahuasca, uh, sure, that's inspiring to some, but um we need we need um like permission to normalize it in a in a in a and normalize it across the board.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:55.680
And I think your story really helps to to and I mean normalize in in the in the truest sense, like um not that just this this gives permission to say that hey, you know what, maybe anyone can try this and it's okay.
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.319
And uh yeah.
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:06.319
Yeah, ultimately that that's why I I made the movie to to try and help uh spread the message of hope and healing.
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:18.319
My generation is a lot of people with with a lot of issues and stuff that they've been dealing with unsuccessfully, and what's been offered to them hasn't been terribly effective or effective at all.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:24.880
And hopefully uh this shows people that ex I I it gives them permission, exactly what you said.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:40.079
Wow, this is something that's real, it's possible you can access this here, are real, just normal people who who have uh who have uh given themselves uh the opportunity to uh to uh take a jump into this world and and and see where it takes them.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.720
And uh and uh it's it's worked out worked up pretty well for all of them.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:31:00.240
So yeah, there there's uh that there's a need for it, especially amongst older people who uh you know, you you get to in your 50s, your sixties, your your kids have grown and gone, you're about to retire, uh people are living much longer now.
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.000
You get into your 60s and you think, okay, I might be living the next 30 years.
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:05.440
Am I gonna stay miserable?
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.119
I am gonna stay stuck in this rut.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.240
What's next for me?
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.759
What's my next chapter in life?
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:10.960
What am I supposed to be doing?
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.599
What do I, you know, who who am I?
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.359
What where where's this all going?
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:24.160
Uh and and this is a great way for people to to uh find that that that way forward.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.720
Uh, and that's why we called the movie the next chapter.
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.200
That's that's what what people my age are looking for.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:35.920
Again, I I commend your your courage because it does it does take like courage to heal.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:42.559
I interviewed someone uh a while ago, and that's that that phrase came up, like the the courage to heal.
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.960
And I don't I I don't think we should like overlook that.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.440
It um because there's many people who who don't take that step.
00:31:51.759 --> 00:32:06.799
So um I think we should mention it whenever someone whenever someone takes that step, especially when it when it's extra uncomfortable and it's not in their necessarily in their environment, and and they they taking that step is even more courageous.
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.440
So uh yeah, thank you.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.880
And like we we we definitely look forward to seeing the movie and supporting it and helping the story get out.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.039
And like we're at an interesting time.
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:25.839
Your story is coming out, and you know, the US government is openly supporting psychedelics now, and that's another permission structure.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:32.079
And and that that that permission structure goes like across all the groups, right?
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:40.240
So now it's like people from really from different walks of life are gonna be able to say, hey, wait a second, the president is saying this is okay.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.960
Uh say what you want about you know politics removed from any of this.
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.039
It's just uh more permission for people to uh to say yes.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:53.839
So exactly, exactly.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.920
I uh I'm I'm very uh encouraged by uh by developments and and things seem to be moving in in a very positive direction.
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.599
And I think a lot of people are going going to get some help.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:16.079
Uh what troubles me a bit is the uh corporatization and the medicalization of of plant medicine that that seems to be you know really happening.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:30.319
It's uh and and to to the to the ignorance of the indigenous roots uh of these plant medicines and how these have been uh have been a part of human culture for thousands and thousands of years.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:37.920
Uh and you know they're gonna get commodified and they're gonna be you know clinical medical office treatments kind of things.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.240
And and that kind of misses the spirit.
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:54.240
You know, most of what's still happening in psychedelics worldwide is still underground, it's still not an official, you know, licensed medical environment or whatever, and there should be safeguards on things that things should be regulated to a certain extent.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:59.680
But I hope we don't lose the the spirit of the connectedness to nature where this all came from.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:15.920
You know, these are natural compounds that have been on the planet for we don't know how many thousands of years, uh and and we don't need uh some big pharma company making a synthetic version of psilocybin to to to to uh to to to move this forward.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:25.920
It's it's always been there, it's always gonna be there, and we we I think we should respect the the origins and and the spirit of what these plant medicines are all about.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.039
Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be the trick.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:42.079
I I'm I've been in this industry for about five or six years now, and that's there's these conversations are happening, and uh yeah, there's people in the space who are still actively pushing to keep it.
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:49.280
And you know, there's even been studies that are saying that the ceremonial aspect enhances effects.
00:34:49.519 --> 00:35:08.320
And uh so you you'll you even have people trying to quantify to say, hey, hey, like it because it is getting medicalized, and to take these next steps and get them approved, you know, you need to show data, and data is you know, it's hard to it's hard to put uh shamanic practices into an clinical trial that's gonna get FDA approval.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.960
So we're in this weird catch-22.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:24.079
Um but like uh people are uh in the space are aware of it, and uh you know, there's been studies that you know a communal, a communal or a ceremonial aspect really does improve outcomes.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:35.840
And you for now we still have people who are in the drug development side of things still paying lip service to the roots.
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.679
We'll see how long that lasts.
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.480
So yeah, let's keep let's keep those topics uh there.
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:48.159
And you know, um we sh shaping the conversations is the way you kind of keep these things.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.960
So yeah, look let's keep talking about it, I guess.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:51.840
Yep.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:53.039
Here, here.
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.119
I'm I'm with you 100% on that.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.320
All right, Scott, uh again, thank you.
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:07.440
And uh we will we will keep our eyes open for your film, and I really, I really appreciate the this conversation.
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.119
Yeah, oh thank you so much.
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:24.639
I I appreciate uh being here, the opportunity to to talk to you and to uh to to help uh spread the the message of hope and healing that the this uh the the that this film is uh is all about and and what uh plant medicine therapy is all about.
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:26.320
So deep gratitude.
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.199
Thank you so much.
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.719
And uh any way that we can support what you guys are doing, let me know.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:31.679
Wonderful.
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.880
I I appreciate it.
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:33.519
I really do.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.280
Uh let's let's speak again soon.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.000
You got it.
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.039
Thank you so much.
