Sean: Welcome back, everybody, to another week of the Highlander CEDH podcast, a show where we talk about tournament CDH. That is in paper, in person, right up in your grill, CDH. another week. Another week under the belt. This week, we have a really cool guest. before we talk about the guest sponsorships, Tame Dog Sleeves. If you go on to Tame Dog's website, check out the link in the description below. There's a a content link. You can click that, go to the website, and you get ten percent off your sleeves from Tame Dog. We love We use He needs to get come on Tim, I need those black midnight sleeves, bro. They're out of stock right now and I'm but they're excellent. W I love I use them, you know, on all my decks, and they're great. They don't gum up. I've I've got some other sleeves on some my modern decks that are still just like mucky. I don't know what's going on with my hands, but it's gross. Anyways. so my conversation today, without further ado, is with one of my favorite local players named Sam Valley, also known as Potato or Spud. he's a local tournament grinder, he's from Columbus, Ohio. And he's most known for piloting TNT or Tim Nathracios and Kinnan. Those are his two basically main decks. He plays a bunch of other ones, and like we talk about his 2025 season and how he swapped a bunch of different decks through that season and how it didn't really help his win rate, but it helped him understand the format. So he went through that period and then he came back to TNT and Kinnan alternates between the two. Really loving it. Reason I had him on this week. I asked him on like a month ago because I just wanted to chat with him because I think he's super smart and super informed in the format. But I feel like we we like manifested like his success recently. So he he actually so he topped Misplay at the Lake, which was a diamond event at Cleveland State the last year. and that was run by Better Plays. And then between me asking him to come on this podcast in mid-September to now, he actually won a eighty person gold event. so we go through that and do a quick tournament recap, but that was not a part of the plan. I think he just was like, well, we gotta have something to talk about other than misplay. So here you go. so he just crushed that. I love talking with Sam because he gets right to it and he like through this episode, things we talk about. I I took some notes from the episode. We talk a lot about table politics and how it can really like shape your opponent's decisions. We also talk about threat assessment and some cards he doesn't run because of just trying to not alarm the table. and basically patience. Like a big thing he talked about was being patient, letting the deck do its thing, letting the pod kind of you know, rotate around the table naturally, not trying to over politic or do anything like that. And then preserving your interaction. some people call it sandbagging, but it is definitely a tactic that and a skill that people need to develop. and that even though you can be playing from behind in a game, especially with a deck like Kinnon or TNT that has such a good ability to tra like shift the momentum of the game. in the mid-game or late game can not always be a bad thing. Sometimes playing, you know, second or third position of the table can be great. And so we go over that and we we contextualize that in his tournament winning run. So really excited to get into that. If you like content, hit a little s you know little subscribe button somewhere over there. You know, I'll start begging for the subs. You can like the episode too, I think that's great. Or just leave a comment. Let me know how you think the conversation went. without further ado, that's all the announcements for this episode, so let's get into the show. Alright, we're recording. Sam, what's up? Hey, how's it going?
Sam Valley: Hey, how's it going?
Sean: I'm good, man. How are you?
Sam Valley: I'm doing well. Mondays. Mondays are Mondays, you know.
Sean: You flying on cloud nine after this weekend? Yeah. I was was laughing pretty hard.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I was I was laughing pretty hard yesterday after thinking about all the all the moments from the finals and everything. It was it was a really good time and some some cool moments with two of my favorite players, so
Sean: Dude. Two of your favorite players. I mean someone in that pod sucks.
Sam Valley: I no, I just don't know him very well. the Yussan player was I played him in s Swiss and he did really well. he beat me then. but I just don't know him very well. So but Andy and Kyle I've
Sean: Yeah, Craig.
Sam Valley: played dozens of times, so
Sean: Craig's an interesting dude, man. He plays like he'll play Yison and he'll play Tim Nodargo and then he'll play some other random shit. And he is like so aloof. The dude just does not he doesn't seem like the brain that he is, and then like all of a sudden
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: he's like, All right, let me execute this like twenty twenty step line in Yisan. You're like, Okay, cool. Thanks.
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, he it definitely surprised me how resilient that deck was. Like I you know, thirty eight bow master things later he was still kicking, so
Sean: and I think you like snapbacks from shit or something. I don't even know. At one point you had to like get rid of the Yi san or something like that. Swords? Mm-hmm. Yeah, man.
Sam Valley: Yeah, it took like Yeah, I just swore to the E Son on Andy's end step just to not lose. Yeah. It was crazy.
Sean: how's the fall been for ya? Good, good. We're decorating for
Sam Valley: Good, good. We're decorating for spooky season right now. Got all the spider ribs up on the porch and all the decorations out in the front yard. It looked it's looking good.
Sean: Heck yeah. Are you you're in Columbus, right? Yep. Yeah. Where you at? Are you in North Columbus? Are you in Grandview or where you at? I'm like south southeast where in Reynoldsburg.
Sam Valley: I'm like south southeast. We're in Reynoldsburg, just below Broad Street.
Sean: Okay, cool, yeah. So I went to O O S U for for undergrad, so I used to live down there. I used to live obviously on campus and then I lived in Grandview for a while. So I love Columbus dude. I love coming down there.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice area. I really enjoy living here. It's kinda get the best of everything. Get I get some city, some small town, you it's
Sean: Mm-hmm. If you can get outside, it's 270, yeah. If you can get outside the belt,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: you're like golden, man. As soon as you get in the belt,
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: you're like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll get out of here. Yeah, so brought you on because, you know, you I I remember you were like, I I texted you and I was like, hey, you wanna come on the podcast? And you were like, why? And I was like, why me? Because, bro,
Sam Valley: Yeah, by me.
Sean: like you I like every time we play, I feel like You're just like somebody who I always listen to the opinion of, in game and out of game. So and also you've been around since I started playing. Like my first tournament,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: y remember that game? You probably don't remember this, but like Kirk held me up like a machine gun against you and Mitch. And you guys are both like, Are you fucking kidding me? Like Kirkland. And it was just like this devolution. But I just remember like you've you've always been there since the beginning of my like playing C D H, so I remember
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, I remember I think the first time you beat me you were on that Saltai enchantment deck. And I was I was so impressed. I was so impressed
Sean: Dude, Tatsu no you're the one it w
Sam Valley: dude. That was a sick list. You were you Yeah, that was a really good game. We've we've been playing forever.
Sean: It's such a terrible commander, but I was like, if I put enough hate bears in this shit and a kinnan, I will make this work, you know. Yeah, I know
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, I know it worked. Like Hallbreaker did Hallbreaker things.
Sean: it worked. Yeah. Yep, yep. Just like delay the game as long as possible until I could get a a kinnan in a valley flood call. It's basically Seeker Commander Kinnan, you know. But
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: yeah, man. That was fun. And then by the way, you were like, Why me? And then I'm like, like, I checked out the top deck profile. Not that I'm gonna like publicly you put it up here in front of people, but I'll just say out loud, you Bro, you got a forty five percent win rate and a fifty percent conversion rate. Like what
Sam Valley: Yeah, it's it's pretty good this year. been I've been on a hot streak for sure. I think I found my I think I found the archetype that I play. before this year, I was kinda like hopping around between decks. I
Sean: Like.
Sam Valley: think I made it a goal of mine in 2025 for some reason to play a different deck at each tournament that I went to. that is a really cool thing to do if you're trying to explore like the meta and have fun. it is not a very good thing to do if you want to win consistently.
Sean: Yep. Yep. You're talking to the guy that brought Rogside and then Shang Chi like back to ba you it's like I'm doing the exact same thing you just did. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Valley: So it Yeah. Yeah. no, it was a i I learned a lot from that. but you really have to kind of stick with the deck and r learn the the ins and outs
Sean: The ends and out.
Sam Valley: of it to really perform well. So I've been kind of sitting on Tim Nothracios and Kinnan, which are kind of the same shell of a deck. Like you're
Sean: sitting with Timoth Rassios and Ken, which are kind of the same shell of a deck.
Sam Valley: trying to do the same things. you know, Tim Nothracios just always has a lot more protection. And then Kenan has a lot more advantage. So it's kind of, you know, six in one hand, half dozen in the other kind of deal.
Sean: Yeah. So when you're talking about those two lists, those are like Simic Core and then obviously T and T has the consistency of the tutors and the silence effects too, right? Like you're talking about that's what you're talking
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: about for protection. what draws you to like that? Let's just get right into that. So what draws you into like that color wedge and that playstyle?
Sam Valley: Well, I think it stems a lot from my casual commander and casual magic days. which I still dabble with casual magic. I just don't have enough time to play these days with work and all that stuff. So it's kind of my side. But I always like the big spells. I like doing the flashy things, I like cascading, you know. it's just kind of that niche where you can like in canon play these six, seven drop creatures that are normally just terrible.
Sean: it's just kind of that niche where you can like in Kenneth play these six seven drop creatures that are normally just terrible. Yeah, I don't know what happened. Like ghosts, just like paranormal activity, bro. Just came in your room while you were talking about casual. It's your ghost of casual. you know you can resolve these six seven drops that would never see play in any other deck. and it and that's what draws a lot of new players to Kenneth as well. and just kind of
Sam Valley: Yeah. My dog's walking. My dog's walking around. Yeah. you know, you can resolve these six, seven drops that would never see play in any other deck. and it and that's what draws a lot of new players to Kinnan as well. and just kind of getting into that archetype of controlling the board. I started on Wounded's List as K on Kinnan. and it was a little bit too like haty for me. Like it kind of just hated people out of the game
Sean: getting into that archetype of controlling the board. I started on Goomet's list, this Kip Honkin. and it was a little bit too like haty for me. Like it kinda just hated people out of the game.
Sam Valley: and didn't just win. Which is a lot of the reason why I'm switching back to TNT is because Kinnan does a really good
Sean: Which is a lot of the reason why I'm switching back to TNT is because Kinon doesn't really
Sam Valley: job of overw of assembling overwhelming advantage and then drawing the game. is what I found on it. My draw rate is much higher on Kinnan because I can basically take, you know, Holebreaker Horror on the board,
Sean: Yeah, I know. Because I can basically take, you know, a rigor core on the board.
Sam Valley: fifteen cards in hand, and then somehow I'm faced with something that just makes me draw. And 'cause I just can't resolve that silence or I can't resolve that.
Sean: fifteen cards in hand and then somehow I'm faced with something that just makes me draw. Yeah. I just can't resolve that silence or I can't resolve that
Sam Valley: Grand Abolisher to say, hey, stop it. I'm gonna win now. and that's kind of where I lean back into TNT with the silences
Sean: grand abolition that says, hey stop it. I'm gonna win now. Yeah. And that's kind of where at the attack of the TNT silences.
Sam Valley: and now Five Fairy and you know, all the all the good stuff that brings.
Sean: Yeah, I think it's interesting 'cause like I when I played Kinnan, I
Sam Valley: Exactly.
Sean: I think I played it four months ago. I played like a Staxi Turbo Kinnan. And I got one win on that. It was at the warp gate like two months ago. And then I was just like, man, dude, people respect the shit out of Kinnan. Like that's a big thing, is like e
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: everybody nowadays, especially like it won the MV, it won a bunch of stuff. It's very consistent. I think it won European Championship as well.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, I don't doubt it.
Sean: Yeah. It's just so good and like such a signpost thing to remove from the board. And it's you're like always the You can always be the deflection threat, you know what I mean, when canon, but TNT just lies so under the radar in comparison. It does, and it also has a much stronger back.
Sam Valley: yeah. It it ing it does, and it also has a much stronger backup plan if you do get overrespected. You can just resolve a Timna, and as long as someone's not threatening to end
Sean: You can just resolve a tenda and as long as someone's not prepping it.
Sam Valley: the game, you can grind anyone out. Kinnan is like you said, it is a magnet to people doing to people making mistakes in the game because you are there. I have had people end step mystical tutor with two cards in their hand and they find red blast to kill Kinnan, then pass.
Sean: canon ha is like you said, it is a magnet to people doing to people making mistakes in the game because you are there. I have had people Bentstep Mystical Tutor with two cards in their hand. They find red blast to kill Kinnan then. Like it's just like and like yeah, I get it, I have eighteen mana and I can but brother you have two cards, like you're not in the game. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Like it's just like and like yeah, I get it, I have eighteen mana and a cannon. But brother, you have two cards. Like you're not in the game if you don't resolve a Nas. Like why are you mystical tutoring for removal? Like it's just kind of Yeah. Yeah, like
Sean: Yeah, quit olli ooping to someone else and just destroying the cannon, yeah. Yeah.
Sam Valley: I'll just recast it. You're not doing anything. You're not accomplishing anything other than mildly inconveniencing my next turn's game plan. It's like yeah, it definitely gets way more hate it gets It gets, I think, equal hate to what
Sean: I think equal heat.
Sam Valley: it deserves, but in the wrong times in the game.
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: Like, you know, to at least to me as a as the pilot. Like I'm like, man, that really sucked. But not just sucked because it stopped me from winning, which was sort of the goal, but it sucked because now even if I could win, I can't stop the next guy. So it's like that kind of balancing act w
Sean: Yeah, man, that really sucked. But not just sucked because it stopped me from winning, which was the goal, but it sucked because now even if I could win, I can't stop the next guy. Yeah. I don't have the resources. So it's like that kind of balancing act.
Sam Valley: that where you want your opponents to have resources, but you don't want them to have too much resources. Kinnan
Sean: resources but you don't want them have too much resources. Kinnan
Sam Valley: ha always has too much resources so it gets to hate to put it below the other people at the table. in an in an in an unfair way sometimes. but you know don't I'm not saying don't kill Kitten, but like,
Sean: ha always has too much resources, so it gets to hate to put it below the other people table. Dude, for sure. In a in in a in an unfair way sometimes. but you know, don't I'm not saying don't kill Kennan, but like
Sam Valley: you know, yeah, it just that's that's why I stopped playing it. It's because people just kind of started making mistakes and I didn't have as much power in my voice as I did with TNT where I can say, hey man, look like, you know, I'm not that scary. Where when in reality I am. I am. But you know
Sean: that's that's why I stopped playing it is because people just kind of started making mistakes and I didn't have as much power in my voice as didn't get into the break and say, Hey man, look like you know I'm not that scary where when in reality I am. I am. But you know,
Sam Valley: It's way easier to convince people of that
Sean: it's way easier to convince people
Sam Valley: when you have, you know, Tim Nothracios or Timnochrom or Nick in the command zone.
Sean: Yeah, man. I mean like so for Kinnan, what I've learned kind of just like playing against the deck is I'm always looking for what's the the second or third spell they play, because that'll tell me the type of list that they're on. And so or also like how aggressively they mulligan too. If they're playing like a little flips or a mid-range Kinnan, they'll keep like a higher hand usually because they're just trying to play Dorks and Rocks and then spin. Or like,
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: you know, play some kind of mid-range plan. If they're like literally mulliganing to oblivion. I'm like, okay, well it's counter the draw engine. You like leave Kennet alone. Like you can leave Kennet the board all day because they're they're gonna flip into nothing five times out of seven. You know what I mean? And so I think the problem with the the the bifurcation of those two strategies is like bad players, especially in the Swiss, don't look for one of those two things, they just kill the cannon 'cause it's easier and you're just like, okay, well, I'm also a fourth of this game and I'm the one of the blue players. Like if you want to remove me from the game that's fine, but you better be freaking winning, like right now. You know what I mean? Like or you're probably gonna just die. So yeah, it's interesting man.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean even in my list where it's like I'm on like a yeah, I'm on like it's basically no bad cards, but I have like one or two more untappers for the one ring. you know, I have Hallbreaker Horror, and then the next creature that I could flip into that's the next highest CMC is High Fatrix Three. There's nothing in between. There's nothing over it, there's nothing in between, like it's just Hallbreaker that can end the game. So it's like, you know, people like, he's has seven mana, he hits flip, kill it. Nah, bro, I like what one in twenty I hit Hallbreaker Horror and then You just kill that instead, like it's you know, for sure.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, man. So so okay, we talked about those are the two primary decks and we'll get into the deck techs in a little bit, but tell me a little bit about how you got into C D H because I like starting with that and then also just a little bit about yourself too. So we know you're from Columbus, but how'd you get into playing Magic and C D H and then, you know, just anything else you wanna like fill in the backstory for sure.
Sam Valley: Yeah, so how I got into magic starts it is twenty twenty six. starts twenty-five years ago.
Sean: Holy shit.
Sam Valley: I started playing t kitchen table magic with my dad when I was seven. six, six years old. And we were just I think I had a mono black skeleton deck that had nightmare in it. The cre the the horse with like star star power toughness that equal number of swamps you control. That was like the deck that I played.
Sean: Yep. That was like the deck that I played.
Sam Valley: And he had like a goblins deck or something. And I think he creamed me because I was six and he was an adult, of course. but it was a really good learning experience into just enjoying the types of strategy games
Sean: And he had like a Goblin's deck or something. I think he creeped me because I was sixty one of course. Yeah. but it was a really good learning experience into just enjoying these types of strategy.
Sam Valley: that magic and it, you know, its counterparts kind of invite to your life, like Yu-Gi-Oh! magic. I played Yu-Gi-Oh! Pro a little bit when I was a when I was a young kid also. and like my dad just had this collection because he had played from like revised to man, I wanna say like
Sean: So and like my dad just had this collection because he had played from like revised to I wanna say like
Sam Valley: Whatever s whatever sets were coming out in like two thousand five. like so th that that nine year block he played, his
Sean: whatever s whatever sets were coming out like two thousand five. Hmm. Yeah, I couldn't tell ya. But that that nine year block he played his
Sam Valley: what my uncle played, hit their cousins played. so like they had a decent sized collection. Like, you know, when he gave me the collection, when I got back into it in like twenty seventeen, you know, there
Sean: it their customs play. so like they had a decent sized collection. Like, you know, when he gave me the collection when I got back into it in like twenty seventeen, you know
Sam Valley: were like three or four dual lands in there. There was a Grim Monolith, there was like a Wheel of Fortune, there were four or five ancient tombs, like there was a decent
Sean: decent
Sam Valley: chunk of you know in twenty seventeen those are worth a lot less than they are today still but even then it was like these are really cool magic cards so yeah I started getting into it then and then a little bit in high school I went to pre-releases and stuff. So I've been playing like my whole life. and then
Sean: chunk of you know in twenty seventeen that was a lot less linear based and but even then it was like these are really cool Mentor cards. So yeah I started getting into it then and then a little bit in high school I went to re releases and stuff. So I've been playing like whole life. and then
Sam Valley: how I got back it back into it and then at C E D H recently was like five years ago now I think. Shannon, my my girlfriend, her best friend from middle school and grade school
Sean: CEDH recently was like five years ago now, I think. Janet, my my girlfriend, her best friend from middle school, grade school.
Sam Valley: Her boyfriend was a really good friend of my current playgroup today. Ty
Sean: her boyfriend was a really good friend of my current playgroup today. Okay. Tyler
Sam Valley: Ohio, Cam Daddy D, like those guys. so I started playing Casual
Sean: Yeah. so I started playing cash.
Sam Valley: Magic with them on Mondays, Monday Night Magic at Dragon's Lair. And we played that for years, two years probably. And then I think it was Ty that was like, hey, we should check out C E D H. It's like that higher power stuff we're trying to get into. And ever since then we could we're hooked, we stopped playing casual. Like we just started
Sean: two years probably and then I think it was tied that was like hey we should check out CDH like that higher power stuff we're trying to use. Yeah and ever since then we were hooked we stopped playing cash.
Sam Valley: playing C E D H. we went through a time where it was three rog size and me on Kinnan as our pod and that was terrifying. it was it was hell. yeah.
Sean: Jesus Crime, that sucks for you.
Sam Valley: Not a good time. but yeah, that's kind of how we started to get into it. We went we started going to warp gate tournaments and the tournaments they hold at Guard Tower and Little Root here in Columbus, those are all stores.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: and just kind of go in monthly and just play it more games and then like I think. Beginning of last year is when I started kind of taking it more seriously and
Sean: beginning of last year is when I started kinda taking it more seriously.
Sam Valley: trying to get to the bigger tournaments and doing whatever. Obviously, I was still kind of trying out different decks and exploring the meta and exploring everything and trying to learn as much as I could. So I was my win rate was lower, but I was just like learning a whole lot. especially on the politics side, which is something that I struggled with early on, because that's like that's probably 70% of the game, honestly, is just how you can talk and and not manipulate, but like, you know, almost
Sean: I was still kind of trying out different decks and exploring the meta and exploring everything and trying to learn so I was my win rate was lower but I was just learning a whole lot. especially on the politics side. that's like that's probably seventy percent of the game, honestly, is just how you can talk and and not manipulate but like you know
Sam Valley: manipulate other players and then do it what you want.
Sean: Yeah, I feel like you and I learned how to politic alongside each other because we had like brushes
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: together where we would like have friction. And then we now I feel like when I sit down at a pot, I'm so comfortable with you because I know how you politic and you know how I politic. So I feel like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: to talk to our last game that you and I actually played together, I think it was when you and I got lied to in Columbus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You lied to us. Yeah. Crazy game. But the whole
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that nib visit player who lied to us. Yeah.
Sean: time you and I were kind of tete à tete, and I remember there was one moment in the middle where You I I kinda like over threat assessed you and you like, Hey man And I like, you're right. That you're not this isn't the right time to be talking about Sam, it's the right time to be talking about somebody else in this pod. And like that just shows like When you play in locals especially, or like you learn good players like different tendencies, you can kinda like almost get comfortable with them. And it's kind of crazy, man. I thought you were just because you're like somebody who I know from the first tournament I ever went to, I thought you'd been playing forever. But knowing that you've only been playing for like maybe six or nine months longer than I have, it's kind of weird to to think about things in that lens, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean it at the at the core of it, C D H is just a it's just a web of decision trees
Sean: It's just the I would set in trees.
Sam Valley: and it's and and it's a politic talking to other people game. If you can logically follow decision trees and like, hey, if I make this decision, what happens? If you can do if you can assess those and you can talk to your other players at the table, you can learn this format really fast. I'll shout out one player who is everyone knows, Isaac. he started playing magic.
Sean: You can logically follow decision trees and like, hey, if I make this decision, what happens? If you can if you can assess those and you can talk to your other players at the table, you can learn this format really fast. I'll shout out one player who is everyone knows, Isaac. he started playing magic
Sam Valley: like two years ago. Like magic total. Like he's probably
Sean: like two years ago. Like magic total. That's insane. Like he's
Sam Valley: what num top five player like in the world. Started playing Magic two years ago. Like from nothing. like it's just that's kind of like, you know, the golden, like,
Sean: yeah, easy. Yeah. From nothing. like it's just that's kind of like, you know, the golden
Sam Valley: you know, stars align situation. But like, yeah, I mean
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: it boils down to those two things really. So
Sean: Yeah. It's crazy, man. And also you're one of the first people to come on here that said their parents got them into magic. Like I think everybody
Sam Valley: Billy.
Sean: else that I've talked to was like, Yeah, my friend from high school or something like that, but I think it's a unique thing for like someone's parents to understand the game and like for you to be able to communicate them. Do you talk about like your tournaments with your dad sometimes or no?
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean I tell him that I go to tournaments. he kind of he really only played casually with like his family and friends and stuff. but like he knows like he knows the general flow of the game. He knows the the rules to a certain degree. He can follow along with what I'm telling him. so yeah, I mean I talk to him pretty often about magic. Not like, you know, in depth of, you know, the
Sean: Yeah, yeah, though.
Sam Valley: card names and stuff 'cause he wouldn't know what they are, but like, yeah, no, we talk a lot. He's
Sean: talk a and he's pretty much everything that he and I did as a kid. I
Sam Valley: Pretty much everything that he and I did as a kid, I still do today. Video games, magic, like the sports that I did as a kid, like all tennis was a big one. We played all the time, tennis and I still play today. Like it's it's yeah, he's like,
Sean: It's yeah, he's like
Sam Valley: you know, hobbies are hereditary is what I say. So
Sean: For sure, dude. Yeah. It is funny. I came from a family where like my parents really didn't have too many hobbies, but my mom ran marathons. She's like a huge runner, and so I picked that one up. It is funny, dude. It is so hereditary. That's crazy. I didn't think about it that
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: way. But yeah, man. Like, yeah, I think about that sometimes because we're I've been married for a couple of years and we're probably gonna start a family pretty soon. I don't know. Like I don't wanna like air that shit on the internet and then my wife's like, What the hell are you doing? But, you know, eventually I I'm I would like to have children and like the the one of the most exciting things to me is gonna be able to like teach them how to play magic, you know, because I feel like
Sam Valley: yeah. I mean that's shoot, that's one of the reasons to have a family, right? You know, you want to have someone in your
Sean: I wonder if
Sam Valley: life that you can enjoy your stuff with and that extends
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: to your wife, your kids, you know, everything. So
Sean: Yeah. And it's crazy. Like, so let's go back to the fact that you were like, 70% of the game is talking. I always love so I was listening to Max P and and Hire had a podcast about Dak Thayton, the new deck that came out. It's crazy to like after a while I listen to these podcasts and they'll talk about cards specifically, like, you know, we got like Samut or something like that, or we have like Geist of Saint Thalia, I got some of these coming up here, like just kinda chilling on my desk
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm, it's good one.
Sean: and thinking about All this is is just new chess pieces to play with. And really, like, after a while I start thinking about like, what is that change in like the behavior of the game? It's not like n I don't care about the card necessarily as much anymore because It t I kinda just read the text and I go, okay, what kind of game is this gonna facilitate? Like what kind of politics is this gonna create? Do you think about that too sometimes? Like when you see these cards come out and like people freak out the sky's falling. Like when I see Dak, I go, it's it's it's too threatening. It's too threatening, it's gonna get hated out very quickly. You know what I mean? Of top tables specifically. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, decks like Dak are in a weird spot to me. and this also goes for like Rafa Mikey, this also goes for Atali, this goes for Gairuda, this goes for
Sean: spot to me. and this also goes for like graph and mikey, this goes for Tali, this goes for Garrett, this goes for
Sam Valley: the Aang, three color Aang, this goes for probably Y I'd classify Yidris here too, like the one of the good old good old day ones. all of these decks people are like, they're easy. You just have to play your commander.
Sean: probably ye I'd classify Ydris here too, like the one of the good old good old day ones. all of these decks people are like, they're easy. You just have to play your command
Sam Valley: And then the stuff the stu the things the things fall into your lap. But that's not the case. Like you have to be better at magic than you would have to be to
Sean: things fall into your lap, but that's not the case. Like you have to be better at magic than you would have to be
Sam Valley: play Blue Farm to do well with those decks. You have to be like twice as good of a magic player to put up the same results. Because yeah, you just cast your commander and then you probably win. But like to get there and when you don't just have the nuts requires so much political skill. Like you have to control the game to buy yourself time because the cards that you play don't do that.
Sean: A million percent. You have to be like twice as good of a magic player to put up the same results. Because yeah, you just cast your commander and then probably win. But like to get there and when you don't just have the nuts requires so much political score. You have to control the game to buy yourself time because the cards you play don't do that.
Sam Valley: Like yeah, I Dax Dax pieces by time, but they
Sean: Like yeah, I Dax Dax pieces by time.
Sam Valley: really don't. What happens is you play them and then someone hates them and then someone else wins. You have to control that. Like and you can't do it with your cards
Sean: You have to control that. Like and you can't do it.
Sam Valley: because you don't have Like you have to do it with your political power, like
Sean: And the game's different in the Swiss than it is in the top cut, right? Like people were expecting way less in Swiss and you can just show up with
Sam Valley: Yep. People respect you. People respect you way less in Swiss. Like you can just show up with Rogsai and cast Nas and everyone's like, yeah, okay. But in Swiss, everyone's like, okay, they're prep or in Top Cut, everyone, everyone there is usually better players. So they know exactly what your deck does as opposed to having a faint
Sean: But in Swiss everyone's like, okay, they're pre in top cut, everyone everyone there is usually better players, so they know exactly what your deck does as opposed to having a fake.
Sam Valley: idea. which we'll I'll actually talk about that later as when we go into the tournament recap, because I did not do that. but it was versus time and I have I need to get better at time because
Sean: you better tie it.
Sam Valley: I don't know what time does. I basically just had to hate that deck
Sean: I makes them attempt to hate that.
Sam Valley: out of the out of the game because I didn't know when I was losing to it. but yeah, like people know what you're doing. People know what you're up to. So you don't have the same like you don't have the same political power and you have drastically less card power. Because on Dak, people know, I have two fierce I have two force of negation the script monolith or I die. Like you they just do it. people hold up force of
Sean: But yeah, like people know what you're doing, people know what you're up to. So you don't have the same like you don't have the same political power and you have drastically less card power. Yeah. Because on Dak, people know, I have two fears I have two force negation script models AI. Yep. Like they just do it. people hold up force
Sam Valley: will, like me and Andy or no, not Andy. Who was it? no, it was Andy in our in our second round. It was me, Andy, the DAC player, and someone else. And I was like, and Andy was going for a LED or demonic shooter crack LED, go get Necro line. He like, Hey, do you have a counter spell? I like, here's a force it will. I want to use it on Dak. And he was like, All right, bet, I'll go get a fish. Like people just that that kind of thing happens
Sean: Sick.
Sam Valley: all the time in Top Cut, never in Swiss. so like you just have to if you're playing those decks, you have to be prepared for that. And you have to know that you might not get there.
Sean: Yep. so like you just have if you're playing those decks, you to prepare for that and you want to know that you might get there. Also, I think the another cool thing about this is I was thinking about this because I went from Rogsai to Shang Chi, and those are radically different, but also
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: similar strategies in the sense that they're trying to win in the same number of turns. But
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: holy hell, dude, I the politics is radically different with the Shang Chi deck because no one lets you have shit, and also
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: you have no agency. Like The only agency
Sam Valley: You don't.
Sean: I had in the games was like, I can go get a collector oof and people were like, Don't do that you know? It's just like okay.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I mean sho shoot on Rogsai even like you have a fish on board and you're like, well I have this counter spell. That's that's like like one pact of negation in Rogsai is probably about equal to the entire agency if you had all 100 cards in your hand in Shang-Chi.
Sean: Literally. Yeah, dude. Seriously. So it and it's funny, the games pace differently and the politics is so different, so I don't know, I just it was a it was a super crazy different tournament than the one previously and I've enjoyed the shit out of it to be honest. It was just like I I didn't realize by the end of the tournament that I can't tempo myself to stop other players when I'm playing a mono green strategy. You need to just jam. Like you can't go.
Sam Valley: Yeah, you just have to go.
Sean: Yeah, two games I tried to save the day and I we just died. I I ended up on the right side of changing, you're not feeding fish. True.
Sam Valley: I the on the bright side on Chang Chi, you're not feeding a fish. So
Sean: Truth. That's the that's the thing you're gonna see on turn one is fish honoristic. So Yeah. Yeah, less yeah less less things stopping you, I guess, on that one.
Sam Valley: that's the that's the thing you're gonna see on turn one is fish not auristic. So yeah, you got less you got less less things stopping ya, I guess, on that one.
Sean: Yeah. Well cool man. Alright. So yeah, let's get into the tournament because the reas the by the way, I don't know what happened, but I was like, Hey you wanna come on the podcast? And you were like, sure and I almost feel like you mentally were like, Well we need something to talk about, so I'm gonna win this tournament. You know what I mean?
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah, no, it it was definitely great timing and even better luck. So
Sean: Yeah, let's talk about it. So you last this past weekend, so today is the twelfth. Yeah, October twelfth. so this past Saturday we went to Better Plays and we had another freaking I think it was like seventy five players.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: and it w so that's a gold plus and you took it down, dude. You number one. Eight one day one, let's take a look here.
Sam Valley: Yeah. It's a great tournament. Yeah, so round one, I was I don't even know who I was. the thing doesn't tell you who you played. It's
Sean: Let's go to pairings here and let's get sand valley. Boom.
Sam Valley: lame. well it tells you who you played, but not what decks. round one I was in a three-pod, first seat. in second seat was Bridget, the Selesnia deck. In third seat was Rao. So I'm sitting there on TNT, quivering in my boots.
Sean: first C. In the second C was Bridge and Silesia deck. Third C was Brown. So I'm sitting there on TNT, quivering and
Sam Valley: luckily I Brigid played turn one Queen of Dale, and I was like, I'm cooked. Raoul cast turn one Soul Ring, I was able to misstep it, which saved my life. I will always misstep the turn one mana rock if I have it from Raoul, because that is such a tempo piece for that deck. they go from casting Raoul, then spells to just casting Rao. So I was able to miss up the Ral, which he said afterwards, won't be the game he was gonna win turn two, which obviously it's Raoul. and then at that time, let's see, he untapped on turn Bridget played Bridget on turn two, Raoul played Raoul, and or no, he didn't play Raoul, he played a tapped land that said, Hey, are we dead to Bridget? And I was like, Yeah, probably. He asked me what I was doing on my turn. I had a hand that was I my my board was Land Land Thracios S. Percentimal at
Sean: So I was able to miss up the Raoul, which he said afterwards won't be the game he was going to win turn two, which obviously is Raoul. and then at that time, let's see, he untapped on turn Bridget played Bridget on turn two, Raoul played Raoul, and or no, he didn't play Raoul, he played a tapped land that said, Hey, are we dead in Bridget? And I like, Yeah, probably. Probably what I was doing on my turn, I had a hand that was my my board was land land for Asias S percent one.
Sam Valley: that time. I just kept a trim one S for Sentinel with misstep. and and abrupt decay was in my hand too
Sean: and a Brunsa K was like.
Sam Valley: for Brigid. and I said, Well, I have Swansong, Mana Vault, Land, Tainted Pacts, and then Abrupt Decay and one other dead card. Like, here's my hand, I'm cast a Timna and swinging. and then he cast lightning bolts on the Brigid. And I was like,
Sean: And I said, Well I have Swansong, Nana Vault, Lamp, Tate Impact, and then Arupt Decay and one of their dead card. Here's my hand, I'm casting Timna and swinging. and then he cast lightning bolts on the bridge. good, okay.
Sam Valley: and then I was like, okay, S for Sentinel trigger, and it chord. So
Sean: So
Sam Valley: I I went I untapped and was like, Hey, I just drew this from I just drew this from the Esper Sentinel. I feel like I have
Sean: Yeah, I just drew this from I just drew this with the S P Sentinel.
Sam Valley: to jam. So he was like, Yeah, probably. And he was and so I cast I played land, crop rod a different cradle, tap cradle for two, played manifold, was able to cord for Thossas with Tanefact. no
Sean: Ooh
Sam Valley: response. So I won turn three on the play. It was super lucky that because I wasn't getting a turn if if Bridget was alive and Rao had Raoul out, I was not
Sean: lucky that because I wasn't getting a turn if if Bridger was alive and Rao had Raoul out I was
Sam Valley: getting another turn from either player.
Sean: Hmm. So it was definitely just another first situation and went first, so I thought I had first. Heck yeah, dude. I mean I
Sam Valley: So it was definitely a just have it first situation and and luckily I went first, so I was able to have it first.
Sean: think look here's there's some high level play right there. Hey, Rao and Bridget. Bridget plays a creature, you're like, Cool, we're ch we're chilling for at least a turn, right? You gotta get the Bridget out next turn and then you they have to wait on a whole nother turn cycle, get haste, or at least have it not have summoning sickness and then they can win from there. So you
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: felt like you had the window for the tempo play right on the Rao. Which most players probably I probably would let that go because I'd be like, I still I gotta win before him and I gotta hold my protection piece up for my win, you know, like but you like sort of three five like that's fair literally any decumpt.
Sam Valley: Well, it's also a three pod. Like, if there was literally any deck in fourth seat and it was any deck that was out would that is what I would consider in the top ten, I probably would have not done miss I probably wouldn't have missed that. I don't know that I would have made the same decision. I I think that I sh probably should have made the same decision regardless, but I don't know if I would. so like a rogue sci, I'm like, all right, well,
Sean: Yeah, you'd be a little more hesitant, right?
Sam Valley: Soul Ring versus Dark Red Necro, like I gotta hold this up. but yeah, no, it was
Sean: Yep. but yeah, no it was it was
Sam Valley: It was a r it was a
Sean: a it was a
Sam Valley: quick but good game. So yeah, both players were were were nice dudes.
Sean: Heck yeah. Alright, round two. We crushed them wow, look at this pod, dude. You got Bond, you Andy, you got Jane man, that's a good pod.
Sam Valley: Yeah, it was me, Andy on Nick Fury, Bond on Dak, James was playing I can look him up. James was playing Sissey. yeah, James was terrifying. James was playing Sisse. this was a longer game. I think it ended on
Sean: Do you mean to look him up? I can look him up. James was playing Sis A. yeah, James was terrifying. James was playing Sis A. this was a longer game, I think it
Sam Valley: turn five or six. but it basically came down to Andy, like I was mentioning earlier. He had the Vamp Tutor on N
Sean: Came down to Andy like I was mentioning earlier, he had the VAM tutor on
Sam Valley: step for for LED to then his hand was sacked, by the way. It was a turn
Sean: His hand was stacked by the way it was
Sam Valley: two win with breach. or Necro if he resolved the spells that he wanted to. but I was able to I was I kept a hand that was I actually have
Sean: I kept a hand that was actually
Sam Valley: it here. Hold on let me pull up my phone. it was versus Dak, so it's like okay I gotta have a Force of Will or something. I kept a hand that was Tundra, Exotic Orchard, Fierce, Soul Rings, Force of Will, and Enlightened Tutor. so on the play, turn two Aristic with Force and Fierce. I was like, it doesn't get better than that. so I was able to resolve Aristic
Sean: was versus Dax, I like, okay, I gotta have Force of Moves. Heck yeah. I kept the hand that was Tundra, the Exotic Orchard, Fierce, Soul Rings, Force of Will, and then Light. So on the play, turn two recipe with Force of Fierce. Yeah. It doesn't get than that. No. so I was able to resolve.
Sam Valley: on the turn on turn two. I was also able to stop Andy from having either breach or necropoten by talking to him on turn two. And then at that point, Dak just stacks out the board, which was terrible for Andy, but for was great for me and Sisse. because I
Sean: And then at that point the act just stacks out the board. Which was terrible for Andy, but for was great for me and Sisse.
Sam Valley: was able to develop a Timna plan, I was able to get like I was able to get a King Tachala out, I was able to get a Cabbage Merchant out, I was able have mana as the game developed, which was important because the stacks that Bond played was like turn three.
Sean: because the stacks that Bond played was like turn three
Sam Valley: Defense grid pass for some reason. then turn four, which it made a turn around because everyone held up three mana. Because, you know, me,
Sean: defense screen pass for some reason. then turn four which it made a turnaround because everyone held up three mana because you know
Sam Valley: James, Andy all responsible. and then he went Thorn of Amethysts pass. and that, you know, made it slower. Which at that point Andy was probably he probably could have won on his turn if he got there, but it was much harder than
Sean: that point Andy was probably he probably could have won on his turn if he got there, but it was much harder.
Sam Valley: me and Sissy, obviously, because I can make a lot more
Sean: Big lot.
Sam Valley: mana. We had we both me and Andy both had tithes out of that point. I I played Tide, he caught he flash photography it, you know, as people do. and then Sissei had like Sise, Lavinia,
Sean: I I played side e kind e flash photography that you know, as people do. Yep. and then Sisay had like sise with
Sam Valley: Lotho, nine mana. Like we were cooked. if Sissei had more than just colorless mana. They had like mana vault and delighted halfling with like four lands. So but yeah, it was a it was a really terrifying game. All three of us were gonna present wins. I was able to resolve cord for fibblefip.
Sean: Resolve cord for fibbleton. What did you just say to me? Yeah. so I d I had an op about, which was my
Sam Valley: Yeah. so I don't I had an Oppo out, which was my attacker. Bond didn't have any creatures, and I was like, well, I know Andy has packed, and I know Andy has chain of vapor because it was revealed earlier. maybe not the chain of vapor, but I know he had removal
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: because he hinted at it. but he had packed
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: for sure. and I was like, well, I can probably cord for fibble thip instead of Thoracle, and he's probably more likely to use removal on my Oppo. So I did that. And I had decon in hand and I got Fibliflip on board, swung a bond in response to the trigger I cast, or no, he tried to chain of vapor the oppo in response to it attacking. And I had a misstep in my hand that I was able to pay for. and so I misstepped it and Andy was tapped out at that point. I was able to bait the pact from Sisse by casting survival fist beforehand. so I went survival, packed, let it ca let it get countered, tutored Fibliflip, swung, Andy had chain of vapor, misstepped and then I deconed right after. And
Sean: tried to chain a vape for the oppo in response to it with attacking and I had a misstep in my hand that I was able to pay for. And so I misstepped it and Andy was tapped out at that point. I was able to bait the packed from Sisse if I passed the survival fest beforehand. So I went survival packed like Anthletic encounter, tutored ripple tip, swung, Andy had chain of vape where I misstepped it and then I declocked right after. Dude what a line.
Sam Valley: And because of the di because of defense grid thorn thorn of Amethyst, no one had mana to interact. Everyone everyone's hands were stacked. But it like, you know, the like one counter spell from each. So I just I got there. And Andy, I
Sean: Yeah, man. I just I got there and
Sam Valley: think, definitely untapped in one, so it was good.
Sean: Yep, yep. Awesome. So you threaded a needle right there. Awesome. Okay.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So you're crushing the tournament. Dude, these early wins against great players, they just like do so much for your confidence, right? You're like, all right, well, the can't get scarier
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: than that. So let's just keep on jamming.
Sam Valley: yeah, next game. short game, but it's a draw. I think basically what happened
Sean: I think basically what happened
Sam Valley: is Kyle cast Bolus' Citadel on turn two or three and I commandeered it and then the guy in third seat was like I have a swan song
Sean: Steve was like, I'm song.
Sam Valley: and we were like draw and then we drew. so
Sean: And then we're
Sam Valley: but I'd like to be I'd like to point out that I was responsible for for Kyle's only non-wins of the day.
Sean: Yeah, man. Kyle took the he basically just like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: crafted the list that I brought to work it the week before. I think he has like off by three cards and he just went absolute ham. I can't you can't give a guy like Kyle that deck. He destroyed the event. He was like I think he was four one in Swiss. Like he obliterated the number one.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, I know he he destroyed the event. He was like I think he was four one in Swiss. Like he obliterated it. He was number one all the way through, no contest. It was crazy.
Sean: I just want to call that, by the way, this chance guy. I love chance because he always brings Crick and every time I talk to him he shows me his word of command and Crick, which is a ridiculous
Sam Valley: my god.
Sean: card to play, but it in Crick it's it's four life. And he always
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: tells me how he uses it. And I just I that's my that is my favorite magic card, so it's just hilarious that he plays it. I think that he you he used it
Sam Valley: I think that he you he used it in that game. Charlie cast a rystic study and Crick goes word of command targeting Kyle because he knows he has a fierce and then just cast Kyle's fierce on rystic. And we were like we were like, what? So yeah, chance is a great guy. I played him twice, both games. He was he was a stud. He was awesome. He was awesome to play against. I don't think he was I don't think he was really in
Sean: amazing like You're the man. He's cool dude. Awesome.
Sam Valley: either game. from like a able to win it perspective, but like he he you know, he was a good
Sean: Crick is a really tough deck in general to play, I feel like. Like there's so many other monocolor commanders that are better positioned. But the I respect it, dude. I respect it. I'm coming with this deck, this is my deck, and I'm gonna if I win with it I I'm the Crick guy, you know? Yeah. So very cool, man. Okay, draw and now on to man, you saw Crick you saw everybody in the finals throughout the Swiss. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah. Craig lost two in round four. that was a really good game. really showed how resilient Yassan is. I had an early Bow Masters. Zach basically neutered himself to clone it and then kill it. which was unfortunate for both of us, because he had to LED for
Sean: Zach basically neutered himself to clone it and then kill it, which was unfortunate for both of us because he had to LED.
Sam Valley: it and I lost my Bowmasters and his was a phantasmal image. So like it died real easy,
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: which was unfortunate because that would have been the the thing to stop Craig.
Sean: Thing to stop Craig. But
Sam Valley: But dude, I had to use I think in the turn before he won, I had to use abrupt decay, swords, fierce, force of negation, and pact on him. And on Craig. And then the turn that he won, I had to use two more pieces. Like or c or like the table, I had to like convince the table to try to use
Sean: dude, I had to use I think in the turn before he won, I had to use abrupt decay, swords, fierce, force of negation, and pact on him. On him and on Craig. And then the turn that he won, I had to use two more pieces, like, or could like the table, I had to like convince the table to try.
Sam Valley: two more pieces. Like It was insane how redundant or how resilient his deck was once it got off like if Yisan can get off the ground, it is almost unstoppable. You need to like literally hate it out of the game
Sean: It was insane how redundant or how resilient his deck was once it got off like if Yisan can get off the ground, it is almost unstoppable. It's over like literally hated out of it.
Sam Valley: to get it to not win the game. it is it is crazy
Sean: And it is crazy.
Sam Valley: being a mono green deck, how resilient that deck is. Appo stops it. I didn't have the luxury of that in that game.
Sean: Mm-hmm. Well let me ask you this, because we're gonna get to the f top four, but I had the same experience where I played Swainie in round five of last week and then I played him again in the finals, and I felt like losing to somebody that you're gonna see later actually kinda like It's like a little mini lesson before you actually have to play the game that matters and it's kinda nice. Where you're like, Okay, I learned that
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: screw that deck. I'm gonna kill that guy as much as I can, you know what I mean? Or a at least you kinda learn how it wins right before you have to play it again, which is interesting.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, in top four I was like I over respected him for sure. I'd killed like I had a Bowman but Bowmasters, we'll talk about the top four game, but literally Bowmasters, I like, No, you have no creatures the entire game. So Yeah.
Sean: Yep, yep. This is how I'm gonna survive to the late game 'cause you had to play that that that long of a game. Alright, let's go to round five. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, let me figure out hold on what was Ryan on? Ryan was on yeah, BC was on Timdechrom. Cody
Sean: Play my boy Bi. I'm I'm assuming Bichi was on Tuna Chrome. Yep.
Sam Valley: I don't remember this game very well. Rogsai. Walker was on Rogfrass. this game I think was a very political game. Everyone was kind of higher resources. We were able to stop wins back and forth, and then I was able to resolve five minutes of fairy. on someone's end step, and then untap and win. I think yeah, I got there with Fossadeekon again, just because I was able to get silence and play.
Sean: Nice. Okay, yeah. Five mana to fairy mage of Zalphir, I think, right? That's the guy? Fairy Mage of Zalphir, yep. Two mana, three or two hellless, three blue pips, basically the planeswalker, but creature we could also have flash. It's it's goaded for any deck that could win solely off of the creatures being the flash speed like did with Rasios. if I have that out and I have the card.
Sam Valley: Yep, to Fairy Major's Alphier, yep. Two mana, three or two colorless, three blue pips, basically the planeswalker, but creatures you control also have flash. It's good it's goaded for any deck that can win solely off of creatures being at flash speed like Tidnothracios. if I have that out and I have the cards that my deck in my hand that win the game, I can just cast them all of them. It doesn't matter what they are. So yeah.
Sean: Just win. Yeah. Crush them. Cool. All right, so we've we've crushed the tops the Swiss rounds. We're into top sixteen. You beautiful dude. On the play against w you're seeing Walker again, McFadden made top sixteen and chance. So hey man, talk about Crick, but he's there. And then th was this the game you were talking about with Tyam?
Sam Valley: Yeah. So yeah, Michael on Titan. really, really good Time pilot. He knew ex he knew what he was
Sean: Excellent.
Sam Valley: doing. it was tough. this is what this is the only game that I really missed Gilded Drake. like just to have, because that one Gilded Drake would have stopped him from being a problem. Now it's kind of like a double-edged sword or like monkey paw there, where if I completely shut off time, I probably don't win that game because then I have no one to point at.
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: And say, hey, don't look at me, brother. He like 12 creatures and 15 mana. We gotta kill time again. so definitely, yeah, my I think Walker mold
Sean: Yep, so definitely yeah, my I think Walker
Sam Valley: low. I think he was on four or five and just had a thracius game plan that was kind of slower. chance wasn't really ever in the game. He just I think he also mulled low, but didn't did not draw what he needed.
Sean: game plan was kind of slower. chance wasn't really ever in the game. He just he also pulled low and did not draw what he
Sam Valley: I think he was banking on a tutor, which obviously Crick runs like 17 of, but he didn't he didn't get it.
Sean: Which obviously Craig runs like 17 of he didn't get it.
Sam Valley: So he was just kind of sitting there with reanimation spells. He helped not lose by reanimating a ranger captain of flash speed, which is so sick. Every time I see Crick, they do something crazy. It's like that I don't expect them. Like I obviously expect them to just win, but I never expect them to word of Command of Fierce or Necromancy Instance to get a Ranger Captain and Kraken. Like it's in it's insane. it was a really good game though. for sure. I had to do a lot of politicking to not lose the time for sure. I think I had degree to not win two
Sean: So he was just kind of sitting there with reanimation spells. He helped not lose by reanimating Ranger Captain of Flash Beam, which is so sick. Every time I see Craig they use something greatly hits like that I don't expect them. Like I obviously expected to lose win. But I never expected to ward of Command of Fierce or Necromancy to be a Ranger Captain Bracken. I guess in instance.
Sam Valley: turns in a row. It was a crazy game.
Sean: turns in a row, he knows a great game. my gosh. And you're all playing interesting decks, so just to kind of give the makeup of this, it's you on T TNT, Walker was on, Rog Thrash, you had time in C3 and then chance on rock on excuse me, Krek in C4. So it's three creature decks and then a turbo black mono black deck. yeah man he must just like high roll at least two games every Swiss like every tournament to get into these top 16 because he's always in the top 16 dude. Yeah that's why like that's why like you see Italian
Sam Valley: I mean yeah, that's why like that's why like you see itallies in top sixteen too. Like they just like cast Itali, three shooters, cool, next game. Like it, you know, sometimes they just get it.
Sean: They just like gas it all, like three tutors, ooh, nice game. Yeah. You know, sometimes they just get it. Yep, yeah. And in the and and then in the top sixteen you gotta have those stars aligned or else you're you're cooked. All right. Let's talk about the main event because I sat there and watched this game for I don't know how long you guys played, two and a half hours, like you ended Dude,
Sam Valley: Two hours and nineteen minutes.
Sean: you ended like with ten minutes left, max.
Sam Valley: Yeah, 10 minutes before time was called, we ended.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: that was a wild game. I mold to six, kept a hand that was
Sean: kept a hand but
Sam Valley: Tataru Taru. and a finale of Devastation.
Sean: Hmm.
Sam Valley: basically. Unlucky on the hand for sure. I was able to play, I think Kyle
Sean: the other hand for sure. I was able to play, I think, Kyle.
Sam Valley: went turn one, Rog Rack, Mox Amber, Manivolt, hit missed his land drop. I went turn one land pass. Andy went turn one fish,
Sean: Fish.
Sam Valley: Craig went turn one Magus of the Candelabra. Kyle untaps, plays the backside of Burgie, and is like, guys, I should try to find a land. And he discards a card and hits LED thrystic. And we're like, Of course. So we have to do about
Sean: Kyle untaps, plays the backside of Bergie, and is like guys I should try to find a land and he discards a card, hits Elini thrustic like
Sam Valley: probably 10 minutes, 10 to 15 minutes of talking to get him to get him to not cast windfall or rystic. Like. Because either one of them won win the game. And we were like, no, bro, we'll
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: stop. Like, we will ha we will counter these spells. So he ends up on turn two getting a Tether at the s Tether at Pool Captain and play. Tutors and Artifact casts it. Andy's getting cards. I'm getting treasures. I'd rather have cards. no, I'm I'm not getting treasures yet. I didn't play Tataro. This is on turn two. Andy's getting cards.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: I'm getting nothing. Kinda mad about that.
Sean: No.
Sam Valley: or I was anyway. and then I'd untap, played Tatarataru passed. I was able to hold up misdirection and I think I wasn't able to hold up dispel, but I had dispel, misdirection, blue card in hand. so I was able to contribute a little bit. Andy just paid for Pish for Fish, Craig misses Land Drop pass. Craig was kind of out of the game until Kyle
Sean: And you just paid for pitch for fish, Craig missed his land drop pass. Craig was kind of out of the game until
Sam Valley: after Kyle was dead. Kyle on his turn three almost won the game several times. Like
Sean: on his turn three almost won the game several times like it was a long
Sam Valley: It was a long turn. It was a wild turn. he tried to res he resolved a a hexing squelcher and breach. He like it was yeah, it was he resolved the necro also. Like we were totally cooked unless we both had very specific answers. and then I untapped.
Sean: Well yeah, just to talk about that for one second. He he man, he had it I and he knew he had it after the game. he just kind of I knowing you had a dispel and a misdirection is good information because I was wondering 'cause he had like Born and he could have just resolved it main phase, I believe, I believe, and then
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: just gone right into Necro and like had Born. You know what mean? But
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, I mean I I saw a line. I know that we were talking about it in the car on the way home.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: me, me and me and the guys I drove up with, Logan and Brandon, awesome dudes. I'll shout them out real fast. and
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: like Logan saw the line. Like it was yeah, I think he casts the cabal ritual earlier, so he has threshold and he casts Born during main phase, goes to end pays life in a necro, goes to end step, and then
Sean: Life in the necro goes to N step and then
Sam Valley: Has Born and Breach online because you sack the triggers correctly and you have Breach and all the card and all the cards
Sean: And backside burghee.
Sam Valley: and backside birdie, he gets there for sure, I think. he's still able
Sean: Yeah, it was interesting, man. Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: to send it the next turn too, which this is that's the turn we killed him because I had bow masters in place. So I was able to untap finale for bow masters and just start threatening his life total. I killed Rograk, killed the Hex Velcher, just brought his life total to zero by Andy drawing cards. And it took a miracle after that. Kyle just kept Kyle kept sending and I was like, brother, I'm gonna keep sending the mirror way
Sean: And it took a miracle after that. just kept Kyle kept sending and I was like, brother, I'm gonna keep sending them your way.
Sam Valley: until you stop casting spells and he didn't. which is the that is the third time that I have killed Kyle Shaft with Bow Masters in a final game.
Sean: spells at Eden. which is the that is the third time that I have killed Kyle Shaft with Bow Master Jesus Christ. dude
Sam Valley: I have brought his life to zero in the top cut game three times with Bowmasters. one of them
Sean: Actually it's kinda nice.
Sam Valley: was manual two of them have been manual pings. my first ever tournament win, or no, my my third tournament win ever, but first at Better Plays way back when. he was at 40 and I was
Sean: And I was
Sam Valley: and I cast the Bowmasters, and then he resolved the silence, and with him casting spells and us untapping one rings. We brought him from forty to zero with one bow masters.
Sean: That's brutal.
Sam Valley: Yeah, that was a wild game too. but back to this one. Kyle Kyle died.
Sean: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Sam Valley: I think he had another chance to win, but he was too low on life. and then at that point I was able to I think I drew into just more mana. I just had more mana at that point. I was able to resolve Timna. I was able I was able to swing with the Bowmasters and the Army. I was able to get a couple cards. I was able to draw like just a just a couple more cloned a fish. I think I cloned Andy's fish. Yep. And I was able to draw a couple more cards,
Sean: couple more to clone the fish. I think I have to clone the fish. You did, yep. Yep. And I to draw a couple more cards.
Sam Valley: and then Andy had to on Kyle's turn discard his entire hand to LED to activate Gleaming Splendor to deal the final point of damage to Kyle, which was a blessing for me. Because Andy didn't have Vamp Tutor in his hand at that point, which was
Sean: Andy didn't have bang too. Also duly noted this Magus put in a bunch of work in this game because the first
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: turn that Kyle pushed, Craig untapped, I believe, a land on
Sam Valley: Andy's.
Sean: Andy's board so that Andy could interact. And then the second time that happened, I believe it happened again, right?
Sam Valley: You know, he untapped either untapped either untapped for my dispel or untapped for Andy's another a piece of Andy's interaction. Yeah, no he yeah,
Sean: Yeah. yeah, no you
Sam Valley: it was super critical. Like the Magus put in so much work on us on not on letting us not lose. Yeah.
Sean: And and just to put a point on that, the one thing I would like to call out because I was spectating this whole game was Craig missed a land drop, I think, four turns in a row. And then like people will not do not interact in those situations because they're like, I'm out of the game. I can't do anything. Craig, being the pro that he is, was like, All right, I'm gonna do this, but he made deals that you wouldn't swing at him with Bow Master, and that Andy wouldn't wait a turn to enter to push. Like those things happened, and because of that, you end up having to interact with Craig a lot because he pushes a win. Basically. Like or he gets to the point where he can push a win. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Well he gets he gets handed two wish claws. Like because of his agreement agreance in the game
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: to provide help and not just sit there F sixed like so many people do. Like no hate to anyone that I'm about
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: to mention, but I watched a top si I watched like a top either it was either a stream game or a top game at Misplay. And it was like Jorman, Andy, Evan, Freedom Waffle, someone else. And like and I think that like
Sean: I remember this game. Yeah.
Sam Valley: I forget who it was, but someone like
Sean: someone like
Sam Valley: wasn't able
Sean: wasn't able
Sam Valley: to win, but they had like t fifteen mana on board and twenty five cards in hand, but they weren't able to win, so they just stopped helping. They just stopped playing the game. And it was kind of like,
Sean: And it was kind of like
Sam Valley: I mean, brother, you like you don't know that. Like anything could happen. Like help, cast the spells, do the stuff. Like, I don't know. I just don't agree with that mentality of just like sitting there doing nothing because you like think you don't have a shot. And
Sean: Spells do the stuff, know. I just don't agree with like sitting there because like think you want to shine. I think most good players don't agree with that mentality, and I I went and played some practice games recently. I'm not gonna say when 'cause I don't wanna give away the people that I played against, but people just gave up so easily in the game, and I'm like, just the mentality of that just doesn't make sense to me. And I think that is a huge difference between somebody who can make top cuts and do well is just the mentality of I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna Pay attention the entire time. I'm going to participate in the game. I'm going to make deals that help me get back in the game, despite not having a hand or mana or missing land drops. Like I think good players will always feel like they're they're still in it and play to those outs, even if it's 1%, dude. Because that one time it's 1%, that's like the best win you can possibly have. When you like save the day like Craig and then all of a sudden you're you have to sword Zan and then bounce it and then kill his board with Bummasters because I'm in it now, man. Like, you know, it takes
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah.
Sean: four or five more turns for you guys to win. All right, I'm gonna toss my creatures on the board now that we're back in the game. Kyle's debt, right?
Sam Valley: Like I kid you not, he was gifted a fish and he had a tutor that got cradle. And from that he was able to be threatening enough to where I had to stop pointing Bow Masters at Andy's face and kill all of his creatures. Like multiple times. It was
Sean: and kill all of his creatures. Yep. Like multiple times.
Sam Valley: insane. Like he was he would he went from literally having forest magus to like fifteen creatures forty mana. Like it was it was wild.
Sean: To like fifteen creatures. You bounced a seedborne one turn and he had to he replayed it.
Sam Valley: I I subtlety to seed born. I had to pitch my kin in. I would have won the game so much faster if I had that kin in. I had to pitch my kin in to s to subtlety to stop it from having a seed born muse. I had to kill like twelve creatures with OBM. Like I had to I had to basically just
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: put six feet under or else I was gonna lose. And Andy couldn't do anything about it 'cause he was Nick Fury. Nick Fury can't stop Keysan if it's trying to win.
Sean: Yeah. Nope.
Sam Valley: It just wins faster. Like it's yeah.
Sean: Yeah, so not only did you have to control Kyle in the early game, in the mid-game, because I mean the man was just pushing like a like a witch, then you go over and Craig's starting to push. Andy, by the way, this whole time has a fish out and has just drawing cards. So let's talk about like the end of this game because I think that's we we gotta did a good job of like developing into the end state. So I pretty much passed dealing with Craig, and then you basically tamp Craig down to the point where he can't present wins anymore. Now it becomes basically a one v one, right? Between you and Mr. Beach.
Sam Valley: Yeah, now it's 1v1 versus me and Andy. and Andy is
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: Andy had to discard his hand, but he had fish. So he was able to build up a couple cards. one of them was a was a tutor for savines. Or no, it was a Praetor's Grass for my tutor for Savines. and he cast I had a fish out of this point.
Sean: Yep. and he cast a bite of fish out of the
Sam Valley: he casts the Savines. I have to pact it. He cast because which misplay on my part. I should have packed the tutor.
Sean: Misplay on my part. I should have packed to the tutor.
Sam Valley: Because I was like I didn't I didn't it was where it was like an hour and a half into the game and I was like I didn't clock that he has eight mana for us in the Spreach in his yard for Savines cast it again. So
Sean: Because I was like I didn't I didn't it was que it was and a half in the game and I like I didn't clock that he has eight mana. And a breach in his yard at this point. Yep.
Sam Valley: I have to pack the original Sabines, which is something that I missed. I should have packed with a tutor, it would have been fine. Well I still was, we'll get into that. and I have a fish, and then he flashes it back. I have like no con I have a Mox Diamond,
Sean: Yeah, yeah, man. and I have a fish, and then he flashes it back. I have like no com I have a mock
Sam Valley: a land, and a cabbage version of. he flashes it back, one fist draw off the top, mind break trap.
Sean: He flashes it back, one fist draw off the top, might break.
Sam Valley: I just fucking mind break trap the sorry cursing. I freaking mind break trap
Sean: you get.
Sam Valley: the the the flashback savines and the look on his face was like yeah. and then he just pee pee passes. and then he I think Craig develops more and I have to point more stuff at Craig. and then no Andy has
Sean: No Andy.
Sam Valley: to activate Gleaming Splendor. Because he lost his fish to stop Craig
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: just from drawing cards with Bow Masters. and then I untapped, I developed more. I think I pushed for a win here, which better do it Swift. because I actually drew into the cards, let it happen 'cause with my with Timna, with just Timna, really. The fish drew me like four cards. Timna drew me like fifth Tim Timna drew me like twelve over the course of the game. because the deal that I made earlier on when I was stopping Kyle was okay, I'll do this, but no one can block my creatures for the rest of the game.
Sean: Yeah, it was basically no orc army at any one, but y'all y'all gotta let the orc the orcish bow master and the timda through, each of you. Yeah, the entire game was on three cards a
Sam Valley: Yep. Yeah, the entire game I was drawing three cards a turn. The rest of the game.
Sean: turn.
Sam Valley: No one was getting a Bow Master army song with them. So I was able to go devoted Druid Swift and I thought Andy was out. He had the two cards in his hand. He goes, Miss Step, and I'm like, my god. Alright. my god, dude.
Sean: And goes, I step and I'm like, No dude, listen, he top decked that. my god. Dude, I literally I was so by the way, y you're talking about this. I'm standing behind both of you watching you draw your cards. You top deck the MBT. I'm like, my god, I don't know how the man did that. Then you put the Swift recon and he goes, Cool fish, and you were like, Yep, and he draws, he goes, Hmm, mind break trap. And I'm just like, what is happening right now? Like
Sam Valley: yeah. And so I was like, Are you kidding me? Yeah, whatever, pass. and I have four mana up after that. Just four. That's it. I like, yeah, I have I have four mana in a dream. Andy top deck, something else that lets him go and goes and gets Thoracle Decon and he goes for Thoracle. And then off of the and then he cast decon. I'm like, shit, I better activate Thracios, fierce off the top. Like hail may Hail Mary, like you can't replicate that ever.
Sean: Dude, off the top! I'm like Hail Mary, like you know,
Sam Valley: Like I was like, Jesus Christ, I don't deserve this. Yeah, no, it was
Sean: Dude, the clouds parted and God came down and was like, Here's a fierce guardianship, brother. I got you. Yeah.
Sam Valley: insane. Like, just like just activate. fierce. Like, my god. so everyone blew up around us. Like, there were like 20 people watching the game. It was insane.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: great moment. And then Andy's Andy again is just like, yeah, I guess. Whatever, dude.
Sean: Poor Andy's like, really? Like what the hell? dude.
Sam Valley: and then Craig has another turn. At this point, I think he's like really not able to win, I think at this
Sean: He was pretty much out. Yeah.
Sam Valley: point. Like he's kinda out of it now, because I've killed I think I killed his Magus of the Candelabra and his commander again, so we can't possibly recast it.
Sean: Yep. That was a pro move for you too, because I'm pretty sure the whole time you and Andy are interacting, you're sending the Bowmaster pings from Andy's draws over at the Yeson board. I'm pretty sure. I
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: think some of them you were sending at Andy's face, but it like and you got him down to like four life, I'm pretty sure by the end of this thing. Yeah. Four.
Sam Valley: It was it was four. I got him on to four. He activated Death Ray Shaman at some point to go back to six. I activated to put him down back to four and then I was actually able to this is probably one of the reasons I won is that I was actually able to kill him before I actually won the game. with bow with the Bowmaster pings. 'Cause he was trying to find cards with Leaming Splender to stop both
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: to stop me and Greg. And I was able to like swing three at him and then just knock him out with one ping. which super lucky. I think lucky there, but
Sean: Yeah, and then by the way, right before you say the end, basically but while all of this is happening, like we're almost doing this in real time, the clock is ticking because this is a timed finals, and if you guys basically time out, which at this point you're you're killing Andy, you have about ten minutes left in the game.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: if you don't win, even though we're in the finals, the decision of the day was Kyle would win the whole tournament. Which Kyle's just sitting there
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: like, huh, interesting, you know, just kinda like biting his time.
Sam Valley: The guy who was dead is going to win if no one wins. So we're like, we gotta like play faster and actually get this thing over with. so someone wins the game. And I think Craig doesn't really have a turn. He kinda tries to build back up but isn't able to push. he r he does resolve Seaborne music in, but it's pointless. I think at that point he holds up Arch George Charm, which does stop me for a turn. So I go I go I have an attempt, but he's like, brother, I'll stop you. Like
Sean: Stop you.
Sam Valley: you can't go for it. And I was like Sure, yeah, I guess. So I have to think about it. And I have to get my buy myself another
Sean: Yeah I guess so I have think about it.
Sam Valley: turn. So I tutor Oppo to the field. I do some other stuff. I get Ranger Captain on board. and then Andy has a turn where he can present again, but it's like two mana short. Like he like Praetor's grasps for for my bounce spell for his wish claw to recast wish claw to get Thossa to get no to rebounce his wish claw to get chain of vapor to bounce his Thossa and then his Wish Claw again, and he's like two mana short. so he has to pass. And then Craig does something.
Sean: And then Andy has a turn where he can present again, but it's like two mana short. Like he like crater's grass for for my bounce spell for his wish claw to recast wish claw to get Thasa to get note to rebounce his wish claw to get Jade of April to bounce his Thasa and then his wish claw again and he's like two mana short. so we ask the pass. And then Craig does something. when I flash an onbook he uses his arch church charm to go search, which is the second to last thing stopping you from Devoto jury.
Sam Valley: and I flash an Oppo, he uses his Archduridge charm to go search, which is the second to last thing that's stopping me from Devoto Drewing Hazels,
Sean: Hazels because that's my only line left of the drawing tossing on. Mm-hmm. And and the last thing on board, which is not gonna be is Andy's death right shot.
Sam Valley: because that's my only line left other than drawing Thosset Con. And then the last thing on board, which is stopping me, is Andy's Death Right Shaman. which is a Mockingbird copy of I think. Or maybe it's just his. And so I go to my turn and I swing Timna at Andy, just Timna.
Sean: And so I go to my turn and I swing Timna at Andy, just Timna.
Sam Valley: And then I swing the Bowmasters at Craig to draw two cards. And Andy blocks with his Death Right Shaman. And just like, no, you're not drawing another card. I'm gonna block now.
Sean: And then I swing the Bowmaster that Craig draws two cards, and Andy blocks with his death right chum. And just like, No, you're not drawing another card, I'm gonna block now.
Sam Valley: And I was like, sure. the card that I drew off of Timna or for turn was I think Cord and off of Timna, I drew Nature's Rhythm. So I was able so like because but the only line that I could get with those two cards was Hazel's Brewmaster, which needed devoted druid in the graveyard. Well, Death Right Shaman stops that.
Sean: Timna, but for turn was I think Horde and off of Timna I drew Major for them. So I was able to like be c but the only line that I could get those two cards was Hazel's Promaster, which needed to go to Drew to the Graveyard, or Death Right Shaman stops that.
Sam Valley: So he literally had to block there. Like he had to make the decision to block for me to win the game. And it's just like the stars literally aligned,
Sean: So he literally had the block. Like he had to make the decision to block for me to win the game. Wow. I did not know that.
Sam Valley: dude. Like I was hoping he
Sean: I thought he was just blocking to save his life. I didn't know it was just d denying you card draw. I thought he was trying to like eke out some life.
Sam Valley: It was probably both, but like he was like he blocked at that point. Maybe he was trying to save his own life. I don't know what the reasoning behind it on his end was, but it it was the last thing that led me with the game.
Sean: That's crazy, man.
Sam Valley: so I was able to I was able to resolve the cord and no one had responses. And it was like holy finally. It's like midnight at that point. We've
Sean: Yeah, right? You're like Duh I you just like you were like you know just midnight at that point.
Sam Valley: been I've been on the road since like eight AM. Like it it's it was yeah.
Sean: And that's the dream, man. Like literally that right there, that game with everybody around it, you know, and like ending there, like, what an excellent game. It didn't end in time. You guys fought to the bitter end. It was like kill one player, kill the other player, kill the third player, you know, stop the third player from winning and then close it out. Like that was perfect magic. And the fact that we had a crowd there was just made it like that much more special. So
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: kudos, brother. Kudos. Like by the way, we did not plan that. Like I told you two weeks before that you were just gonna come on the podcast and you like, I'm gonna make this, you know, we're gonna give some content for the for the pod for
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean yeah, ten ten six, you said no.
Sean: It was earlier than that. Nine eighteen said Joe Point podcast. Yeah. one day. Yeah. And you were like, yeah, let me just win
Sam Valley: Nine eighteen you said, Yo, come on the podcast and then yeah, like literally like a month ago. Yeah, crazy timing.
Sean: real quick the week before I come on. All right. Well, we we missed something. We didn't go over the list. So we talked about your TNT list. We talked about the tournament run, the supremacy, the crush. Let's talk about your Timoth Rassius list. So I'm gonna pull it up. actually it's already over here. Perfect. there's some choice cards.
Sam Valley: Sure. There's some choice cards. Don't don't judge me.
Sean: Hey man, you know, I love this. I love this part because you get to take a look and go, Jace, huh? That's a new card. Why are we playing Jace? Jace is
Sam Valley: Yep. Yep. Jace is I don't know how I judge it right now. I think it's good. I think it's a really good magic card. however, how useful it is into the various stages of the game is definitely
Sean: I think it's good. I think it's a really good magic card. however, how useful it is into the various stages of the team is definitely.
Sam Valley: up for discussion. obviously at instant speed it's terrible. Like it sucks. basically if the game's at instant speed on the last turn and it's not your turn,
Sean: Basically, instant speed is terrible. Like it sucks. Yep. basically if the geeks at instant speed on the last turn is not your
Sam Valley: it's a pitch to force, and that is the extent of the usefulness of card.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: However, on turn two, when
Sean: however on turn two
Sam Valley: everyone has one creature on the on board and they tapped out for all those three creatures, and you have land soul ring, you play another land, this card is busted. You play that, you bounce like Rog Thras's Thracios, Sise's Sise, and then a Lotho from Blue Farm, and it's like all three of those players now have to basically dedicate a turn to casting those spells again if they don't have better cards.
Sean: Land Solver, you play another land, this card is busted. You play that, you bounce like Rog Thrace's Thracios, Sise, Sisei, and then a Lotho from Blue Farm, and it's like all three of those players now have to basically dedicate a turn to casting those spells again if they don't have better cards.
Sam Valley: and that is a huge that is probably the biggest tempo play you can make in CDH, I think. Other than like Toxic Dailusion. For each opponent, bounce an
Sean: that is probably the biggest tempo can make in Z, I think. Dude, look at I didn't even realize it says for each opponent. I thought it was a single bouncing
Sam Valley: artifact or or creature that player controls. So, like, even if it dies immediately, it's still
Sean: that's so good. Like even if it dies immediately it's
Sam Valley: four mana, draw a card, bounce three things. in the in if it's its sorcery speed in its late game, it serves as bouncing multiple stacks pieces for multiple
Sean: Yep. Yep. In the in if it's its sorcery speed in its late game, it serves as bouncing multiple stacks pieces for multiple
Sam Valley: people. and then Winning. Like I was able to bounce an Oppo in top sixteen where he only had green mana to re to not recast it. And then Elders Evolution for Bow Masters to start trying to ping his board down. like it it it came in clutch several games.
Sean: Bro. That's awesome. Like it it it came and clutched several games.
Sam Valley: I think it's good. I don't know what deck should run it. I don't know if it's going to stay good, but if it sits around, it just starts. It's like every like two turns around the around the block has drawn six cards. Like
Sean: Yeah, I was gonna say, like look at this thing. It's got everything that TNT wants. It has card draw right there at the top, which is an insane rate for card draw. So it's basically you're it's almost like under the radar too, because people are like, four mana Jace? Sure, it can resolve, you know, but then you don't realize
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: it's bodies for Timna, tempo for all the creature decks, and then at the bottom it's literally let's buff all of my Timnah attackers, you know?
Sam Valley: Well yeah, it makes one ones for Timon Attackers and for Cradle. Like it's it's it's just a good card. I would
Sean: Postering.
Sam Valley: recommend I would recommend that everyone who was like, I should I should might test that out. Yeah, do it. Test it out. See if you like it. Because I have not hated it.
Sean: Yeah, and I feel like it even like if you're trying to do a T and T plan, which is very mid range control value creature plan, right? Most of the time. Sometimes they do the no bag cards version, but I think this is definitely more of the the the the shell you would put this in. It's excellent basically turns one, two, even maybe three if the ge if you can get the game to extend, like this card's great.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I mean I've even made deals with people, like they let it resolve if I bounce something that they also want gone and then I let them swing at it. Like like, hey, yeah, I replace the card, I get rid of three things, and I like and it's just like yeah. Like I've yeah, I w
Sean: Excellent. Like like hey, yeah, I replace the cart, I get rid of three things, and I like then it's just like yeah. Like a yeah
Sam Valley: I might waste a turn doing it, but that's not a waste to me. Like, you know, yeah, I think it's good. if it if it sits around, you win the game unless someone gases.
Sean: Yeah, I th I think it's a tempo piece, I love it.
Sam Valley: Like it's it's just yeah. Yeah.
Sean: Yeah, it's a guaranteed rhystic study, right? okay. What thou tip. Yeah, credited to Jake Ballingy.
Sam Valley: Yeah, credits to Jake Ballingy. he was like, Yo, play Fibble Tip and I was like, I got you. no, it actually it did win
Sean: Yeah. no it actually it did win.
Sam Valley: a game won my one my round two, where Thasa Decon might not have. So I think it's I think it's definitely
Sean: I think it's definitely
Sam Valley: like one point seven Thossas or no, or like another like point seven of a Thasa's Oracle. Like I think it's
Sean: Yeah, right. That's a good way to describe it, because basically like sometimes with these lists, if you get stalled, right, and you could speak to this way better than I can, but sometimes TNT has trouble closing out the game because you're looking for specific creature pieces. So just having another Thassa in the list can just be super helpful because you're you have you're chocked full of creature tutors, right? Yeah. And this one is repeatable, which is cool. It's but it's not it's it does shuffle matter when. you do it does shuffle in at the end, yeah, that's It is a it is a two-man.
Sam Valley: Yeah. The only reason I would yeah. It's well it's not it's it does shuffle back in no matter what. like it it is a it is a two mana draw two cards if you don't have Thoracle decon in your hand.
Sean: Yeah, yeah.
Sam Valley: or if you don't have decon tan-packed in your hand. But even then, I mean, you know, if you mold low and you want to keep land fibble thip, like it's better than casting Trassios. So
Sean: Right. Right.
Sam Valley: I think it's not bearable. It the one thing that I do say about it,
Sean: About it.
Sam Valley: I said this to other people in Discords before. The Timoth Ratios has a mana problem. the deck does not generate enough mana to cast the things in the deck. That is the thing that it struggles with the most. This is not a card that is that makes me that helps that. so that is the only reason why I would that why I would consider cutting it. but you know, it's it's
Sean: the thing that it struggles with the most. This is not a card that is that makes it that helps that. so that is the only reason why I would that why I would consider cutting it. but, you know, it's
Sam Valley: cool, it's fibble fib. It it's like you play that, everyone's like, yo, what? That's the one of the that's what I love about magic. Like, you know, you when you sit down at a at a C D H tournament and someone plays like word of command, for example, like it's just like that's such a cool moment. And I don't wanna take that.
Sean: sit down at a at a CEH tournament and someone plays like word of command, for example. Like it's just like that's such a cool moment. What's this? It's like, don't worry about it, it's gonna counter that guy's rhystic study. And you're like, okay. Whatever, dude.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah. Let me read this card. I still don't know what it does. All right.
Sean: Alright, well, pass. yeah, that's interesting. But I think you can fix that kind of problem, the mana problem with good good brewing, right? Like as long as you have
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: other cards that make up for that deficit, you can play a card like Bibble Tip and just it's a balancing act of like this is my win con piece and a little bit of card draw and I have my mana over here. I have Kinn and I have Lotho, you know what I mean, all those other pieces. Yeah, I don't know.
Sam Valley: Yeah, and that's one of the things that I will say about Timna Thracios is that if you're trying to mulligan the deck and it's not like, you know, the gas obviously or something. If you have a game plan to get to like a turn two mana engine, that's good enough. like most of the time, I think. Like if you can get out to Tarutaru
Sean: Yeah. Like you can get out to target.
Sam Valley: or Lotho, or like just even like having two lands
Sean: Doesn't even like having two lands.
Sam Valley: and a dork to play Timna turn two. Like it's like having the mana aside from the card draw is the most important. need like cabbage merchant i'll keep hand with cabbage merchant all day every day just because the deck needs so much hand
Sean: So really because your commanders facilitate the card draw so well, the mana is more important in the opening hand. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. King T'Challa, how's that felt? Great, first but you play it
Sam Valley: Great, cards busted. you play it and then you draw nine cards and you don't even know how you drew nine cards. It's like yeah, not I don't think I could say anything more about that. if you're not drawing cards with it, you can beat someone's face with it. I guess that's cool. You can flip it. I've done it once. Just six damage a turn. Yeah.
Sean: shit. That's pretty good. What do you think about him as a commander? Let's do a little sidebar.
Sam Valley: Ooh, has the Azorius problem where it can't win the game.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Doesn't matter how hard you try, you cannot win the game. I have so
Sean: You draw so many cards and then you just look at I have so
Sam Valley: one of my buddies Pete he plays at me with warp gates and or at locals and on like weekdays and stuff. He play he he has it built. I think that I've seen him
Sean: They need he has it built. I think that I
Sam Valley: draw more cards than anyone needs in their entire life. I don't think he's ever won a game on it. Like that's kinda like no, it's not that's not like he's a great player. he plays Tivot mostly, and that's his main deck, but he's a great player. And this deck just it just can't win the game. Like it doesn't have the win cons in the deck. It has it has enough cards to stop everybody. It's like Rog Shy without breach, right? Yeah. Or Rog Roggy Shy without breach. Like it's it will draw the entire deck, then you can't win the game.
Sean: Sorry Pete. That's kinda like no, it's a great player. Yeah. he plays Tivot mostly on that's his main deck, but he's a great player. And this deck just it just can't win the game. It doesn't have the win con that it's has it has enough cards to stop everybody. It's like rock shy without breach. Yeah. my god. Yep. I feel like that's another one of
Sam Valley: Yep.
Sean: those high skill ceiling decks where people can pick this up and win, but they need to be doing ten D chess where everybody else is like, breach and you're like, Son of I want that. You know what I mean?
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah. Like blue form untaps and goes demonic tutor and then you're dead. That's how it is.
Sean: Exactly. It's so easy. Exactly. Oppo I think is an excellent card to be playing in the meta right now. Everybody's tutoring, especially creature tutors. It's crazy. If you drop an Oppo, you just bought yourself a turn and a half. Easy.
Sam Valley: yeah, like all of the counter spells stop all the decks that are good. And then opposition agent stops all the decks that aren't good. Like it also stops the decks that are good, to be fair.
Sean: That's a great way to describe it. You're like, well what about all these creature decks?
Sam Valley: Like Rogue Sai runs like twelve tutors, but yeah,
Sean: Yeah. yeah.
Sam Valley: no, like you wanna like opposition agent is an all-star. I cut scheming symmetry for fibblefip.
Sean: Okay.
Sam Valley: that was one of the choices I made, but like a backup win con in the list, if your deck gets milled or something, Appo scheming. You just target two other people, grab their Thosset Con, you just win. Like it's it's it's real good. I would I'm high on Appo right now. I've loved it.
Sean: scheming you just target two other people grab their thoughts to them and just win right there. It's it's real good. I would I'm high on upboard right loved it. That's awesome dude. Yeah okay let's keep jamming here. Hazel's with devoted druid. we don't have to say too much there. Subtlety and Teferi those could be cards that we could talk about because Subtlety I think is a great meta call as well, just like opposition agent. You wouldn't always run a subtlety, right? But in the meta where there's so many damn creatures, it's like just so good to be able to say nope. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, people ask me how subtlety feels. It's always fine. It's always just the answer's fine. It's like you don't
Sean: feels it's always fine. It's always just the answer's fine.
Sam Valley: want to run the card, don't. It's like but I've liked it. It it can make a temporary creature
Sean: It it can make a temporary creature
Sam Valley: if you need one man one one more mana with cradle. Like it's there's use cases for it. There's n like it's kind of like the mind break trap thing also where index like kinnen,
Sean: There's like it's kind of like the mind break trap thing also where indexed pin in
Sam Valley: you can start a hole breaker loop by just casting it. You don't need a target
Sean: Yeah, you don't need a target.
Sam Valley: if mindbreak trap is online. You can just cast mindbreak trap.
Sean: Yep. Does this have the same thing it doesn't need? Yeah, you choose up to one target, so you do not need a target.
Sam Valley: same same thing with Settle 2. Well, like it just it's also just an E T B trigger. You can just cast the spell and then it does nothing when it enters if there's no spell in stack. so
Sean: Yep, yep. And and I think the other part about subtlety that I I'd like to point out is the fact that there's so many silence creatures now. Grand Abolisher, Voice of Victory. I consider Samut and Hexing Squelcher some of those cards. Jennifer Walters,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: dude, there's so many and it with those on the stack, if you don't have a force of will, I'm just gonna subtlety. You can put on the bottom, you know. Yeah. I mean it
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean it has been like two months since I've seen an uncounterable
Sean: Since I've seen an uncount
Sam Valley: Grand Abolish or Resolve. And they're and they've been cast weekly. Like it's just like subtlety, like those answer those protection pieces are good, but they're not good enough anymore, in my opinion. That's why I don't run any of the two mana silent creatures, is that they don't ever win me the game. They just don't. Yeah, I don't run voice, no GA, no Jennifer Walters.
Sean: It's just like subtlety, like those answers, those protection pieces are good, but they're not good enough anymore in my opinion. That's why I don't run any of the two mana sounds like that. Dude, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, I don't run voice, no GA, no turn for Walters. Wow. Like it's just Ranger Captain's very
Sam Valley: Nothing to do. I don't even like it's just Ranger Captain to Ferry.
Sean: Okay, so the reason is they're not good enough in this shell, right? In in this shell, yeah. if you you can
Sam Valley: In in this shell, yeah. if you you can run them. I just don't like playing them. and if you did run them, I would also run neoform. I cut neoform for Teferi. Or not Teferi, Jace. because usually I've just
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: pitched Neoform to Force of Will and I can do the same thing to Jace and Jace is
Sean: Yep. Yep. No, that makes total sense, dude. And I I love that. I basically to me that seems like you're you're opting out of the threatening early win because a lot of times with a list like this, you're like trying to progress into your win overwhelming advantage. You're not trying to voice win, right? That's just not something that this deck does really well. So y and you I Yeah, go ahead.
Sam Valley: Yeah. It it can't yeah, it can't make the mana. Like earlier when I said the mana problem, you you generally can't make the mana to then to go voice win early. Like you can go
Sean: You you generally can't make the mana to then to go waste of hand room. Like you can go
Sam Valley: voice pass and then win, but then that leaves Kenon cloning it and then winning. Like it's just you know or someone draking it and then you don't have one anymore. Like where it just gets removed because it's scary. Like it's just they're lightning bolts. I don't like playing lightning bolts.
Sean: It's just, you know, or someone drinking it and then you don't have one anymore. Like anywhere it just gets removed because it's scary. Like it's just they're lightning ones. I don't like playing lightning bolts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then what's the decision for
Sam Valley: yeah.
Sean: Teferi Man? I I'm actually like, is it because of the flash? Yep. It's because Lane.
Sam Valley: Yep. it's because late game it does two it does two things that other effects don't. it enables you to cast
Sean: It enables you to cast.
Sam Valley: all of your wins at flash speed. Well, except for like a sorcery speed creature tutor. It doesn't it doesn't enable those, but it enables everything else.
Sean: Enable those everything else. Yeah.
Sam Valley: like Thoracle, Hazels, Devoted Druid, all of them
Sean: Hazels, devoted druid, all of them.
Sam Valley: can be cast with Teferi and play on someone else's turn. the other thing is is that it is a silence effect.
Sean: The other thing is is that it is a silence effect when it's not overturned. it is it is also a really good control piece.
Sam Valley: When it's not your turn. it is it is also a really good control piece. If you have a draw engine and no one else does, you can play a Teferi, you can pass, and then if you have three counter spells, you negate
Sean: You can play it to the very and you can pass and then if you have three counter spells you negate your
Sam Valley: your next turn. I generally don't play Teferi Pass because it's five mana, but regardless. no, it's just yeah, it it enables all of the wins whenever you want them, and it is a silence at when it's not your turn. it's also a human. I play Cavernous Holes.
Sean: no, it's just yeah, it it enables all the wins whenever you want them. And it is a silence when it's not your turn. Yep. It's also a human. I play as well. There you go. Uncounterable. Nice. Alright, let's pass the creatures here. Let's go on to the suite of sorceries. Okay, six pretty much stock. I don't think I have to talk about any of those. Nope. Pretty stock.
Sam Valley: Those are all pretty stock. I don't think I have to talk about any of those. crop rotation finds Emergent Son and Cradle. That's it. it's not a cradle deck. It can play cradle, but every time I'm like this every time I say it, it lands and I'm like, this is a better forest. It doesn't combo. And it it does help with the hate of like, hey, this guy's got cradle. So
Sean: finds emergence of cradle with it. It's not a cradle deck. It can play cradle, but every time like this every time I say it, it lands and I'm like this is a better forced. That's it. Yeah. It does help with the hate of like, hey this guy's got cradle. So
Sam Valley: I cut Veil for Machine Gods Epigee.
Sean: for G got type of G.
Sam Valley: I haven't missed Veil, I don't think.
Sean: Mm, machine gods, yeah that makes sense. Vale's just like a worse silence. It's like, come on man. You know. We don't need it in the list that has this much interaction. people if people ask me
Sam Valley: Yeah. people if people ask me no ch if people ask me why no chain of vapor, I don't run enough rocks or to to really capitalize on.
Sean: That makes sense and a lot of your mana's creature mana are lands, so you don't really need it.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: abrupt decay is a an interesting one because I it's something that I've struggled to maintain in lists that I've played. I can do it. The hell is this? Golgari.
Sam Valley: Bulgary.
Sean: Golgari, thank you. Yeah, Golgari lists. So talk to me about the inclusion of you just is it just a p like good card, no no no nothing else needs to be said, or do you have like specific targets for this?
Sam Valley: It deals with breach really well. if they've already resolved it. And you might
Sean: And you might
Sam Valley: be saying, well, if they've resolved the breach, surely you've lost. Yeah, usually. But in case they don't
Sean: Yeah, usually. But in case they don't
Sam Valley: have like a deflecting squad and mana to cast it in their graveyard, usually you can stop a breach one with this. it can stop every single creature combo in the format. It doesn't matter what it is. well, maybe not Hullrigger
Sean: Well they can stop every single creature combo in the format. well maybe not holding.
Sam Valley: Horror, obviously, but everything else. it destroys Gleaming Splendor, it destroys ki all of Kinnan's
Sean: Okay, all the
Sam Valley: valuable creatures. it is just the the can't be countered is does it does a lot of
Sean: The the can't be counter is does a lot of Yeah, and also I was gonna say like that that is really it right there, but if somebody has a breach on the stack, nine times out of ten they usually have like just counter magic like a pact that they can use to protect in your yard when the breach resolves or you know, something like that. Even if they have a D SWAT, you have to pay for the D SWAT. You can't it doesn't there's no free cast because it's alternate casting costs. So anything when someone's breaching like and they haven't
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's no free cast. Yeah, anything when someone's breaching, like and they have it resolved in their graveyard, it's like it definitely wins the game. Like you just if you don't make them use resources, you won't win you won't get through it. You still might not
Sean: Use if you don't make them use resources, you won't you won't rid of it. You still might not.
Sam Valley: because it's breach and it's a busted card.
Sean: Mm-hmm. Get out of here you it's it's it's a busted card and like you might not be able to stop them, but this is one of the cards that like it's like a besager. Typically you besage your breach, usually it works. so I don't know, I'm just I probably if I cut it, I might not miss it, but I've had such
Sam Valley: for sure. it's it's it's a busted card and like you you might not be able to stop them, but this is one of the cards that like it's like a Peseju. Like typically you besadeju a breach, usually it works. so I don't know, I've just I probably if I cut it, I might not miss it, but I've had situations where it is the silver bullet to not to not lose the game.
Sean: Yeah, and with a list like this, you need turns, you need time, this is a good interaction. Same thing with force of negation. That's one that I see some people cutting because they're like, Well, I wanna win on someone else's turn and I don't really don't this card sucks in that scenario, but or excuse me, on my turn. but you know, in a game where you're playing this mid range plan, force negation is super good, you know.
Sam Valley: Yeah. another thing about Arab Decay, there's also something to be said about then this this really applies more to 60 card magic, but it also applies to CDH as well. there's something to be said about leaving open mana. Just leave open mana. if people see that everyone's tapped out, they see a green light.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: If people see that everyone has has mana open, they're that green light becomes yellow. and that's a really important thing. It makes me play more responsibly. Because I have it in my hand. It also makes me not
Sean: It also makes me not
Sam Valley: cast the extra value engine that I might not need that throws everyone's view of me over the edge of, he's scary now. Which is another thing that with this deck you have to balance really well. Because you do not want to be the number
Sean: You do not want to be the number
Sam Valley: one threat at the table. if you don't if you don't have to be. Because otherwise people will start targeting your stuff. and abrupt decay being in my deck means that if I have it in my hand, it's really, really good. And I might not want to resolve like the tataru taru just because I can, or the extra kinan just because I can if I don't have like a tithe if I don't have a tithe out or something. Like it's it's very subtle, but I've really liked it just because of that reason.
Sean: It's it's very subtle, but I've it just because of that reason. Yeah. No, d that's so smart because people don't think about that. They like how many times have you heard somebody go, Man, I can't get past turn two? And it's like, really? Did you tap out every g every turn before
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that? You know, or like I can't get past turn four, I guess, is a better way to say that 'cause turn two is like you're just dead. But turn four would be a good example
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: of that where, maybe you're tapping out every single I do that. You know what I mean? Like I tap out way too much and it's like, well, maybe you should
Sam Valley: No like
Sean: be holding up your fluster and your silence, idiot. You know, you can survive another turn.
Sam Valley: No. Yeah. Like like I was playing against Cam Daddy D at a Little Root tournament like a year ago. He was on Negilla at this point. he was before he started playing a tally. I think it was the last game before he switched to a tally. And I lost to him immediately because I was like, he doesn't have it. So I tapped out for like something
Sean: So I tapped out for like something.
Sam Valley: and I had a fluster throw in my hand. Now granted that was a lot worse of a magic player back then. That was a really dumb mistake to make. But like, you know, you lose if you tap out and you have interaction in hand. Like you just you just
Sean: Yep. So
Sam Valley: do. So
Sean: Yeah, man. And that is definitely something that I've been watching a ton of Legacy for sure, which is I feel like is a power level comparison to CDH, but also it's one v
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: one, so it it's better at like observing the good mechanics of the game and from like a 60 player perspective of like here's how I'm gonna sequence, here's things I need to hold up. Like the amount of times I've watched legacy player not push when they had win in hand because they didn't have interaction or they didn't have the cards they wanted and they'll instead they'll ponder or something like that to try and find the card they need to make that resilient push. It's teaching me a lot about like how to be patient in a game, even when I'm playing a turbo deck. You know what I mean? Like, hey man, even if you think you have a window, you have two people untapped over here, or you know, you have interaction in your hand and you don't Necessarily have everything fully assembled, pass the turn. Go back around, rely
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: on your words, rely on your interactions, hold up that mana and make sure that you have a really, really resilient push because these days it like your I think it was your round three, you said you pushed through like four pieces of interaction to get to the win. Like that happens so regularly now, and you gotta be able to be prepared for that. And like it's it's also like you made really good point of like making sure that like have the things that you
Sam Valley: And like it's it's also like you made a really good point of like making sure that you like have the things that you need to execute the win, not just the cards that do it. like I see people all the time like
Sean: Like I see people all the time like going
Sam Valley: going their upkeep and silencing or untapping and then upkeep ranger captain. I'm like, brother, go to your draw step. Like get that card in your hand. Go if you're on Timna, go to go to combat, go to hit people. I don't care if you have six counter spells and thoss a decon in your hand.
Sean: Six counter spells and toss a decon in your hand. Hit with Timna first. Yeah, make it for sure. Cement it. Yeah. Make it do everything that you can to make sure that you have all
Sam Valley: Hit with Timna first. Like make it, make, make it, do everything that you can to make sure that you have all the resources that you will ever get in that scenario. Like it's it it seems like a no-brainer to someone, to like to you and me, but like, you know, I see people do it all the time where they don't they don't do the for sure stuff they don't do the easy stuff to make
Sean: in that scenario. Like it's it it seems like a no-brainer to someone to like to you and me, but like, you know, I see people do it all the time where they don't they don't do the for sure stuff the easy stuff to people.
Sam Valley: the win even like more concrete.
Sean: Well the other thing is like you ever watch like sixty players th most of the time what they will do, and this is the correct thing to do, I believe, is they won't play out their spells until post combat. Like they will go
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: to their main phase two after combat after they've guaranteed the attack, and then they'll decide what to do with their turn essentially, like with the rest of the
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: permanents they're gonna put out, because then you know whether or not somebody's gonna tempo you or do something in b in the mid combat step. If you try and play out a creature before combat and then somebody plays some kind of instant speed board wipe, you're like, all my ships gone now. You know what I mean? And I didn't get any damage through. Like there's just little things like that that I feel like you can learn. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Like yeah, like watching a lot of standard gameplay. Like, you know, some like, you're at nine life, let me swing three at you. See if you'll bolt my creature. 'Cause that's one
Sean: Swim through you, see if you'll bulk my creature.
Sam Valley: less thing they have, even if you can win afterwards. Yep.
Sean: Yep. Yep. Excellent dude. Alright, let's finish up the l the deck tech here. Commandeer's excellent, Miss Direction's excellent. Love both those cards. Yeah,
Sam Valley: Yeah, they're good.
Sean: Machine God, you said is another combo piece with I can do this. Demoted Druid Devoted Druid. it does the F the OG thing with Demoted Druid. it is
Sam Valley: Vodadruid, yeah. it does the that's the OG thing with the Vodad Druid. it is I'm I'll be real, I'm only playing this card because Kelly Ignatov made me a sick altar of it for my birthday.
Sean: Made me a sick alter. No dude. You know what? I have the image actually stored. I put it on a previous podcast. We'll put it up right now and I totally won't forget.
Sam Valley: I could just get the cards.
Sean: heck yeah. They're right there.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I got my deck. let's see. You can cut me you can cut me shuffle to my deck. Here's one.
Sean: no, I'm leaving all pain all these pain painful seconds in, dude. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.
Sam Valley: there's one.
Sean: Here, hold on, let me get let me stop screen share so we see these rightfully. There we go. So yeah, we got Ace's room master. He's a little squirrel.
Sam Valley: Alright, so yeah, we got Hazel's Brewmaster. Ooh, there we go. It's you can kinda see it, there go. Squirrel. you got devoted druid.
Sean: So sick.
Sam Valley: you got the Swift reconfiguration, all the matching art. and this actually forms a panorama
Sean: This actually forms a panorama.
Sam Valley: if you put the cards next to one another, which is really cool. we'll try and show that.
Sean: Dude.
Sam Valley: They all kind of they all kind of go together.
Sean: come on man. And then so I commissioned these three. she has a really good price on commissions I'd recommend going to. And then for birthday she got me a fourth Machine Gods effigy that has all inspirations from all three and it and it's so simple. Dude.
Sam Valley: Sick. And then so I commissioned these three. she has a really good price on commissions. I'd recommend going to her. And then for my birthday, she got me a fourth machine gods effigy that has all inspirations from all three in it. And it's so sick. like it is so cool. so that's the only reason I'm playing the card. but that being said, it has been really good. like
Sean: That being said, it has been really good. like
Sam Valley: just having like you have a bow master on board and you're playing versus like Canon Rog Thrass. Cast the machine guns after you get a second one that's not a creature. You won't lose that game. Like, getting like j it's just also a four mana clone. Like clever
Sean: No. Like, getting like it's just also a four-minute clone, like clever.
Sam Valley: imp if people cast clever impersonator, this makes mana and is clever impersonator. Like it's just well it doesn't it doesn't copy risk. You know, you get whatever you like it's just it's just been good. So I might not cut it. honestly, if I switch to the rock side build that you were on, I might I might run that one too.
Sean: And it's better in person. It's better. It's just well it doesn't it doesn't copy risky. You know, you give it. Like it's just it's just being good. So I might not cut it. honestly if I switch to the rock side building you were on, I might I run might run that one too. Yeah.
Sam Valley: just because it's
Sean: I think Machine Gods is really good in that list, dude. it's excellent. Yeah, I almost ran Ornithopter in that list just for Cam. You know, I told him that after the fact. I felt bad. But yeah, Machine Gods is disgustingly good, dude. And you're right, it can't copy all non-land permanents, but the fact that it also returns you mana you know, as a rock is really, really good. And just the upside of being able to like clone anything that can untap is just insane. So let's go back.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, it's been really good. Yeah. Rest of the deck is just normal stuff I think. Like I run the normal TNT. training grounds is something that people ask me a lot of out of. over Biomasters Familiar. I don't know. It's like you can do either one of them or both. They're both good cards. I just chose training rounds because it's cheaper to cast and it's I don't know. Like in a vacuum I think Biomaster Familiar is better, but it can also be just get swords, so I don't know.
Sean: It's cheaper cast and I don't know. Like in the vacuum I think biometri is just get restored. So Well you're not really on the cradle plan like you were saying. Like you do run a lot of creatures, but they're not really trying to spam. Like you're not running the Queen of Dale and shit like that, right? I don't think you had Queen and the creatures.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So this just makes more sense from like an efficiency perspective and you can use this instant speed if you really want to. If you're trying to go like flash or something like that, you can win on top with a training grounds pretty
Sam Valley: Yep.
Sean: readily. it's an easier c it it's you could also think of it as an as as an easier c
Sam Valley: it's an easier cl it's it's you could think also think of it as an as as an easier clone for the fairy tithe line. if you don't want to resolve a kinan or a tithe,
Sean: Yep. if you don't want to resolve a kinan or a tie.
Sam Valley: you can play it early training rounds. And then when you get there, it functions as another smothering tithe in those scenarios because you're having the cost of fairy. also just makes Thracios game plan way easier. Like it if you have a hand that makes mana and a training ground, it's a lot better hand. because you can yeah.
Sean: Yeah, you're basically just like in a shell isolated drawing your own cards, right? Yeah. That's super nice. It's also funny enough.
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I it's also funnily enough, it's a lightning bolt card, which I said I don't run lightning bolt cards. I do, it's this one. People overreact this card all the time. So I'll do that before I like like let's say I have a tithe and ten treasures, and then I'm like people know that I'm gonna win the game. I'm gonna be like training rounds and they'll be like, shit, we gotta counter this. They don't. They don't have to counter that. No, it it might draw me two or three extra cards off Thracios if I
Sean: Shit, gonna counter this You're like cool nerd.
Sam Valley: if I actually get stopped, but like, nah, bro, it's it's like you got you got baited.
Sean: It's like you got you got me. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say I that's something I would might
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: would definitely consider I'd be like, my god, 'cause like I played against, I don't know, three Rog Thrasses and a training grounds on that deck is death, you know, but you die for sure. Yeah, and this list like I draw two extra cards. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, you die for sure. In my deck it's like I draw two extra cards.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Which I mean depends on how much you care about me having two cards, but you know, yeah.
Sean: I'm more interested in copy enchantment and mirrormaid in this list actually. So th this is just basically the slot plan, basically, or is there do you have specific targets for these?
Sam Valley: no, they're mostly slop, but at the same time, I mean it's C D H. Your opponents are always going to do disgusting things. So,
Sean: same time, I mean it's C D H your opponents are always going to do disgusting things. So
Sam Valley: like Commandeer, copy enchantment, mirror made. Like, I wanted to not kill Kyle on Saturday because he had a Necro out and I had a copy enchantment in my hand. But I had to kill him. I was like, brother, can you just stop so I can kill you and then clone your Necropotons? Yeah, like it was
Sean: Yeah, man. I was like, brother, can you just stop so I can not kill you and he plugged an echo. And then went immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was they've been
Sam Valley: They've been I've I've never been sad to see them. I've kept hands off of them. Like it's they're just I think they're just good cards.
Sean: It's there's I think there's good cards.
Sam Valley: If I cut one of them it it'd be copy enchantment just 'Mir and made copy's more shit, but yeah.
Sean: Mm. And then land package, is there anything unique in here or is it pretty standard? I run Cavern of Souls
Sam Valley: I run Cavern of Souls, which is debatable, and City of Traders, but like I don't know. There it's it's a land package. There's not much you really can change other than like adding in Talon Gates if you really want to play Talon Gates.
Sean: Yep. There it is. I was like, wait, where the hell's cavern? Paths. Yeah, paths are dead. Hell yeah, man. Cool. Well, I mean, love the list. Like just talking through it, I'm like, damn farm and I'm like, this just feels a little more straightforward to the point, you know what mean? Yeah. No.
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, there's a Chuds list going around that people are like, do you play Chuds list? I'm like, No, I've seen that list. It's just pure slop. I have switched to being more proactive
Sean: switch to being more proactive.
Sam Valley: for I have won more games off of just Thoracle decon than I have any other win con in the deck in the past month, and it's not even close. Like eighty percent of my wins are just getting Thoracle in play. It's just yeah.
Sean: wow. Eighty percent of my wins are just getting dormed light. Yep. Which when you're not playing a frickin' when you're playing a a lot of creature tutors, it's way easier to do that, right?
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, there's like seven there's like seven copies of Torkoal in my deck, for sure.
Sean: There's like seven mem shirt. Hell yeah. That's amazing. all right, real quick, let's run through the Kinnan list because this is the other list that you play predominantly. What does this say at the top? Surfer brought. Did you go to my profile and click on it? Yeah, is this the wrong one? Okay, no, it's fine. We will cover this one. It's it's a little bit of a me right.
Sam Valley: is this did you just go to did you go to my profile and click on it? Okay, no, it's fine. We can cover this one. It's it's a little bit of a meme right now. It also has 101 cards in it. I'm currently tweaking a little bit with it. it's fine.
Sean: Shit, sorry dude. I can't find
Sam Valley: No, no, no, no. There's there are some things that I want to talk about though, so we can go through it.
Sean: Okay, cool.
Sam Valley: yeah. So I saw your list win the twister.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: and I was like, you know what could be really good at that? Kinnan.
Sean: yeah.
Sam Valley: So I was like, you know what? Let's just start
Sean: So I was like, you know what, let's just
Sam Valley: abusing the one ring. and that's exactly what this list is list aims to do. There are a couple weird cards in here that I don't think will be good, but I'm gonna try. in the sort in the instance section, Katara's reversal is one
Sean: sort in the incident section, guitar's rehearsal is what
Sam Valley: of them. it's hilarious. Emerald Charm is another one. Untap
Sean: Emerald Charm is another one. I love Emerald Charm. It's one of my favorite cards.
Sam Valley: target permanent, killeristic study. Katara's reversal. Counter up to four target spells and
Sean: Counter up the four target spells and building.
Sam Valley: abilities, untap up to four target artifacts or creatures.
Sean: What the f- WH?
Sam Valley: it's my I I cut sudden sub for it.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: it just seems so fun. Like in canon it's like make four mana, counter four things. I don't know, that seems good.
Sean: Yeah. And then also make twenty th seven thousand mana. Like
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I make make four mana 'cause you tap two permanents to do it and you untap four things. Like it's Yeah, no, I think it's like slept
Sean: I see, I see.
Sam Valley: on a little bit in Canon, but obviously it still requires holding up four mana, which is tough. But you know, end of the day a slope pitch is the force.
Sean: Pitch it Commandeer, pitch it to misdirection, pitch it to force, pitch it to all the other pitch spells, right? Negation, force of will. Yeah. There's so many things.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the creatures in the list are pretty stock. I wouldn't I wouldn't really want to talk about any of those. Everyone's on all those creatures. with some minor exceptions like Trophy Mage. Some people cut trophy mage, I don't know. but the the artifacts I'm on both keys, which is interesting, I guess.
Sean: mage, some people come through if you mage on them. the the artifacts among both keys, which is interesting. Yeah let's go to the artifacts. And I by the way, I totally agree with you. I think the power of that Rog Silist is in the artifact shell for a million percent and I it really is the other thing that I really like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that I I would restate is the fact that everybody was expecting me to jam. what made sh they all kept their interaction. So it delayed the game a turn and I got to just play rocks out and be like, What? It's just rocks and they like, I guess we won't counter that and then basically the thing where you
Sam Valley: Did you ever do the thing where you cast Silas and be like, guys, this sucks, I'm casting Silas and then transmute it like immediately? That's that sounds so fun.
Sean: Mm-hmm. I've I've not done that, but I've cast with Silas and people are like, ha ha ha and I'm like, Okay
Sam Valley: No, that's that's that that sounds so fun because you like you just like, all right, I guess I can't do it this turn. I'll I'll I or I can't I can't win, I have to just cast Silas. Then you untap and you go transmute bullets instead of the element of it, and it's just like like
Sean: Game's over.
Sam Valley: by then people might have used their interaction because they think you're out of the game. It just seems such like a slept on pattern. I don't know, that's like that's dope.
Sean: Yeah, the the power of the artifacts is what made that Grixis shell so good, I think, compared to normal rog side. And just like the change in play patterns. So for you to say like the only the only reason I'm kinda like skeptical about this plan is people don't like artifacts in Kinnan, but they don't counter it typically. Like when's the last time you got an artifact countered in Kinnan, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: No, they don't. Yeah, like it's like it's like turn two Kinnan tap birds for Talisman, tap Talisman for Signet, tap Signet for Felrestone, tap Felrestone for Grim Monolith, and everyone's like, that sucks. And then they have like Force of Will, Force and Negation, Mindbreak Trap in
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: their hand, and I'm like, Cool, thanks. Like
Sean: Yeah dude. I mean what about does that mean okay, well let's just do a little brew here while you're doing this. is seed borne better in this list? no? That is a tough one. It's an untapped one.
Sam Valley: that is a tough one. Because what usually happens when you when you resolve a seedborne muse is that you don't actually resolve a seedborne muse. Because someone just uses like one of their rugal pieces on it and then loses the rog thrass. Like
Sean: Or not a clock omens, I'm an idiot. What about what's the one that where all artifacts untap? Unwinding clock. Unwinding clock? Is that bad too? Maybe.
Sam Valley: Unwinding clock? Unwinding clock. maybe. It might not get countered or bounced. that's a decent topic of discussion, I guess. Maybe I'll think about that one. Yeah.
Sean: I don't know. You do your brew, man. I I was just like kinda I did not obviously have that in my list, but I also played ridiculous shit like the Gilded Lotus. So, you know, maybe Unwinding Clock was better, but I will tell you what didn't get countered was a fucking Gilded Lotus. People were like, Cool, bro. And I was like Yeah. Yeah. When are playing Dragon Free? Literally. Yeah, yeah. No, actually I just needed to fix
Sam Valley: That is yeah. What are we playing bracket three? nope, nope, you're gonna die.
Sean: this for my Thoracle decon. Thank you.
Sam Valley: Yeah. But yeah, I mean that's pretty much the list. It's pretty much NBC Kinnan with some untapping weirdness that's going on. cutting a couple of the cards that I probably shouldn't cut, like amphibian downpour or like disrupting shoal or something, but you know, it's fine. It's canon. People have won with twenty eight l like thirty five lands and eight two drops that don't do anything in canon before so
Sean: No dude, where's your Mishra's workshop? You gotta try the Mishra's. Yeah, you're right.
Sam Valley: Yeah, you're right. I should probably run that Mistress Workshop, huh? It doesn't help cast like Lanor Elves though.
Sean: you're only on eighteen rocks, man. I don't know. Maybe not.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I know. I gotta those are rookie numbers.
Sean: Rookie numbers. But you know, the Qatar's reversal is a necessary card, so we gotta keep that in. Okay, cool, dude. I love this list. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: Sky
Sam Valley: Also, yeah, like politicking the Tezzeret, like you cast Tezzeret they're like cast well and I'm like, I'll just go get one ring, the other one, the the seeker. I'll just go get one ring and then they don't know they're still dead.
Sean: politicing the tetheret, like you cast teseret and they're like like I'll just go get one ring, the other one, the secret, I'll just go get one ring and that they don't know they're still dead. Yeah dude. my god.
Sam Valley: So yeah, definitely has been a fun play pattern for sure.
Sean: Epic. Alright, let's talk about some cards. talk to me about Summit the Tyrant of Noctamon, man. Do you think it's a a real card? What are your what's your opinion on that? 'Cause it's a new piece. This is blue.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I don't know. I will say I haven't seen it once in probably forty games since it was teased. I don't have any experience playing against it. that said Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it has a spot in Kinan because like you're not trying to resolve creatins and sorceries, like you resolve creature tutors for Horror Horror, but I don't know. Like you can maybe argue for Rog Thras, but at the end of the Rogthrast
Sean: You can maybe an argue for rog thrust, but at the end of the day
Sam Valley: still has to cast creatures and do stuff that isn't under split second. It's tough to find a deck where it's like, yes, this this card is a must play. and for that reason, I think that the hate that it was having
Sean: Mm-hmm. It's tough to find a deck where it's like, yes, this this card is a bust play. Yep. for that reason I think that the hate that it was having
Sam Valley: on Twitter is very much unjustified. I don't think it's that great. I think that if it resolves, in some scenarios, it can absolutely end the game. However, it fits the same slot as Squelcher, and I think Squelcher's just better.
Sean: I don't think it's that good either. I think that if it resolves, in some scenarios, it can absolutely end the game. However it fits the same slot as Squelcher, and I Squelcher's better. Yeah, politically it's better. It's easier to cast 'cause red's typically easier to cast. Just talking about mana pips. yeah, I just think some would just take so much hate when it comes down. I think maybe six to eight months if it doesn't get played as much as we think it's not gonna get played, I think maybe it could like see a resurgence. And also just like You kinda have to win immediately or somebody clones it and you're just like, now we're in hell,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: you know? Even more even more so than like sculpture. Yeah, it's like worse.
Sam Valley: Even even more so than like Squelcher for sure. Cause there's so many like being having all your stuff be uncounterable is very powerful, but there's so many non-counter counter spells in the game now. In the meta,
Sean: There's so many non counter counter.
Sam Valley: I should say. They were always in the game. None of them are new, but they're they're in the meta for sure now. So I don't know. It's like fine. I haven't seen it. I hope I don't see it. yeah. It dies to Bowmasters really easily too, which is another thing.
Sean: seen it, I hope I don't see it. it dies to Boatmasters really easily too, which type of thing.
Sam Valley: Like yeah.
Sean: Yeah, and then same thing with Geist of Saint Thalia. So reverse that. It's a one-two. All non-creature spells cost one less. I personally, before you go, I think this card is good. I think it's very good. It's gonna find its way in certain shells. But a blue discount all your non-creature spells is insane. Like think about artifacts, think about planeswalkers, think about anything not a creature is Really good to have that discount, you know. And now what list
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: plays it, I you know, like Ral? I don't know, you know, like maybe T and K.
Sam Valley: Raoul's tough because they don't want they don't want blue cards. Like their blue poops are so so valuable. Like it's like stock up and stuff like that, and like that's it. Like they're mostly a red deck. Rogsai, I think, could definitely like tr traditional Rogsai could definitely run it. Any deck that Kevin Simmons is playing will run it. Yeah. like I think it's I think it's good. I've hit it off of a ragavan before and I'm like, huh, I should probably cast that. And I I I don't think I did,
Sean: Dude, that's so true. That's it. Like they're mostly a red deck. Rocksai, I think could definitely tr traditional Rocksai could definitely run it. Any deck that Kevin Simmons is playing will run It will definitely run it, yep. Yep. Yeah. Like I think it's I think it's good. I've hit it off of a ragaman before and I'm like, I should probably cast that. And I I I I don't think I did.
Sam Valley: but like it was like, that could actually be really valuable. so I think it's good. I think it'll see play. I just I don't
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: know what shells it'll see play in. Is it a human? Yeah. I can s I can see it in canon.
Sean: It is. no no, sorry, it's a spirit cleric. It's a one two flyer though. Is it a Timna attacker?
Sam Valley: Maybe in blue farm.
Sean: Damn it. Let's cut this out. I don't want people to know that. They don't need to we don't need to give them anything else.
Sam Valley: I don't know if I don't know if Timnothracios or like any other blue Timnalists would really care about it. Like in my list, I'm looking at my list and I'm like, okay, Sol Ring's free, I guess. I don't know. Like
Sean: A soul ring stream, I guess. I don't know like
Sam Valley: yeah, risk that cost two. Sure. I don't know.
Sean: I guess. But then you have to the investment of two and then you know, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting. and then all right, last hot take request, Pia. What do you think about Pia?
Sam Valley: it's a great card. I think that it's like one of the best non blue green creatures ever printed. Yeah. So like by that I mean like Rocco. Caber like Rocco. Like fantastic
Sean: Really? Best non-blue green creatures ever printed. Okay, so I mean like Rocco. Like everything like Rocco. Like fantastic.
Sam Valley: card. Goes in if I can discard a card, go get Food Chain, great.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Rogue Thrass, discard a card, go get breach, great. Well obviously Rog Thrass is blue, but like you know what I mean. Like it's
Sean: Or earthcraft.
Sam Valley: or Earthcraft, yeah, like it's It's I think it's very good, but not in every green deck ever, right? Like the green decks that say I go get the ch this enchantment, I win the game, which are usually
Sean: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which are usually
Sam Valley: non-blue green decks.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: very, very good. It's also good in things like I've brewed this Uro food chain list that I sometimes play in pickup games. like, you know,
Sean: Sometimes playing pickup games, like you know
Sam Valley: blue green Uro. and being able to like tutor out food chain basically with all of your creature tutors. Kind of cool. So
Sean: being able to like tutor out food chain basically with all of your creature tutors. my god. So That's nasty dude. Any any creature that does a thing that doesn't interact with creatures is really good. Mm yeah. Any any creature
Sam Valley: I think it's really good. Any any creature that does a thing that doesn't interact with creatures is really good. Like any e any creature ETB, like they're s often so overcosted because that effect like, for example, Karmic Guide is five mana, reanimates one mana, but on the creature is so good. Like that's why Formidable Speaker is probably one of most but busted and it gets creatures, but it's probably one of the most busted
Sean: Yeah. But on the creature is so good. Yeah. That's why for middle speaker is probably one of the most busted I think it's creatures, but it's probably one of the most busted
Sam Valley: creatures that we printed in the last like five years. Because The E T B of getting whatever you want is so
Sean: And then be like also being able to untap a permanent just as a bat like a it's it's all these like modal cards that are really good. I feel like cards like Samut are traps. You know what I mean? They're like, look at this busted
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: mechanic that's gonna make you look like a psycho but doesn't immediately win you the game. Those are not the good cards for CDH. I feel like the best cards for CDH are the ones that have like three like almost your Jace is a great example. Like in a in a specific shot like TNT, Jace is disgusting because it does everything
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: you want it to do and you have options when you cast it, right? So and it's politically good. You know, I think that's a big
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah.
Sean: thing because we talked about seventy percent of the game is the conversation you have on top of the game. And if you can cast a Jace and nobody freaks out, that's different than you casting Samut and not having a follow up and everybody's like, kill him, kill Sam, you know, like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that's bad. So
Sam Valley: there's also another card that was brought to me by a coworker. I I think it's it's going to be slept on and it should be until there
Sean: should be still there.
Sam Valley: becomes a viable reanimator deck in CDH. the new white Liliana is
Sean: No white Billy on them.
Sam Valley: incredible for reanimator decks. it's a soul warden effect. So it's one the creature's one white,
Sean: Really? It's a soul worn thing, so it's one the creature's one way.
Sam Valley: and whenever a creature you control enters, you gain life. Sure, whatever. it has the ability of discard a card, give something hexproof.
Sean: Yeah, something else.
Sam Valley: if re if there's ever a good reanimator deck, like Hashaton
Sean: If there's ever a good reactor deck, I think.
Sam Valley: but good, that card goes way up in value. And it's it from the from reality fracture. Like just being able to instant speed discard a creature.
Sean: Yeah. Like just be able to instant speed discard preacher.
Sam Valley: Like re and then you can reanimate it like with another strategy. I'm gonna play it in casual, but like that kind of stuff is to your point, like what's slept on in the sets is the subtle stuff that's gonna like, shit, this is gonna be broken. Like if if the if this
Sean: left on in the sense is the subtle stuff that's gonna be like, shit, this is gonna be broken. And it's tough because when you're looking at the card by itself in a shell, it's not like inherently powerful, but it's the interaction with the other cards that are powerful is what makes it really good. For example, like Sam Black finding a Bora Breeze collar is a perfect example of that. He was like, in this shell, this just wins the game and O Bora's
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: like what, a thirty year old card, twenty year old card? And he was like, this works and we win. It's like shit.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I'd like to personally thank Sam Black for giving me four hundred dollars 'cause I bought a foil or Bora Breeds collar for like forty five and then they went up to four hundred and I sold it. So thanks, buddy. Yeah.
Sean: Appreciate you, bro. Yeah, thanks. That's funny, man. But yeah, it's like all these sets print these cards and then like six months later the good brewers find them and go, shit, this works in this shell, right? like hunting Velociraptors in Atali is a great example of a car where you're like, this just is a three mana tolly on the nine the next turn. You know, it's like Usually it's
Sam Valley: Yeah. Usually it's around the question of that works like that. So yeah.
Sean: Yes. Yeah. So very cool, man. All right, let's wrap let's start the getting the wrap up here. So tell me a little bit about your plans for twenty twenty seven. What's this next season of Top Deck look like for Sam?
Sam Valley: Well, I pretty much only go to events within like four or five hours of me. you know, tournament grinder probably isn't the right word for me. I like going to events and playing magic. so I'll
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: continue that. I'll continue playing what I like to play. I'll always I'm always trying
Sean: I'm trying.
Sam Valley: to get better. I'm always trying to get the top deck win rate up, you know, have a cool metric to I'm an application engineer. I do observability
Sean: He's an engineer, we do it there.
Sam Valley: by trade, so I'm all about data. I'm all about trends. If I can make the draft go up, that's you know, that's a win for me.
Sean: Yep. so you know, just trying just trying to play more magic, hang with more cool dudes and women and you know there's
Sam Valley: so you know, just trying just trying to play more magic, hang out with more cool dudes and women. And, you know, there's obviously not very many women who play magic, but the ones that do are awesome. So yeah, just seeing more people, play more magic, doing the same stuff. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. I hope there's more events closer to me because I think with Excalibur kinda
Sean: ones that you are awesome. So Yeah. yeah, just see more people like more magic doing the same stuff. It's gonna be great. I hope there's more events closer to me because with Excalibur kinda
Sam Valley: going away, like the Columbus events and the Pittsburgh events are crop might not crop up as much. So
Sean: huge shout out to like, you know, Josh from Leather plays on running great events. You on you on running your big your big events. Thanks, man. Those need to those need to stay those need those need to keep happening because for a lot of the people that are kinda like me where I
Sam Valley: Huge shout out to like, you know, Josh from better plays on running great events, you from you on running your big your big events, like those need to those need to stay those need those need to keep happening because for a lot of the people that are kind of like me where I go to events in like the dry state area, like you know, here Michigan, Indiana, P Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, maybe, like and never outside of that, like, you know, you guys are propping
Sean: You you guys are in propaganda.
Sam Valley: it up and more people need to step up, I think.
Sean: Yeah, man, I appreciate that. And I totally agree. I feel like we're super spoiled in the Ohio and like Kentucky, pit definitely Pennsylvania, even Michigan area. They like there's so many good events. And honestly, man, like you go to these big, big ones, like I know you've been to a couple, like the Excalibur ones. The scene is kinda like I don't know, just 'cause people don't know each other, it's a little more like sweaty and not as special, except for the people
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: who are like the national grinders. Like you can kinda tell those people are like they know each other and that that's a fun time and you can kinda in you know, almost like integrate in with that crowd when you're there. But for the most part, I enjoy literally watching you win that tournament. It was like the like I was like I couldn't have a
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: a more fun Saturday, even though I didn't make top cut, I had a incredible Swiss rounds. I had a blast. I got to play with people I know and I, you know, yucked it up the whole day. And then I got to watch you play that insane game with two other guys that I really know really actually all three of you I know really well. I know Craig too. And so, dude, it we were all like sitting around going, you know, like I miss that. And I think so sometimes like especially guys or or anybody in their like mid-30s, it can be tough to find like a consistent group of people to hang out with nowadays because everybody's so online.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So it's like a unique thing that we all get to like kind of converge and compete and have something to talk about all the time because there's constantly new shit coming out and like and also just get to if you can like meet more people in the space and Try and get better every day and get involved, I guess, in whatever way you can. You don't have to run tournaments. You can just be a killer like you, like a good player, and have an opinion that people respect. And that can kind of like give you an identity that and a and a and a group of people that you can enjoy being around. And that is something that is so important, I think. And a lot of people that look at magic from the outside are like, it's some nerdy card game. But like, dude, when you get in here, it's it's a com especially CDH. Like, I think the power of this format versus one v one is the community, the communal aspect of like, I got you this time and then like, yeah, but guess what guess who got you? You know, it's like that that doesn't happen in one v one as much as it does in our our format, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, there's so many cool moments that happen as part of C D H games that I that's why I don't play sixty card magic competitively. It's like I g I c I play some popper and stuff, but like I've been to standard events and modern and modern events and popper events and it's like I go there, I play three rounds of magic, I leave. I maybe talk to some guy I know. But in C D H games, like as long as no one's lying to your face or being mean or bully or something or like wounded too or something, like it's It's like you have a great time in every game. You get to know someone,
Sean: It's like you have a great time in every game. You to know someone.
Sam Valley: you get to talk to them. You like you have the connection with the other people. That's why people like love commander. That's why they love CDH. Like more of that, please. Like it's just always a great time. And it's also a reason why
Sean: that please it's just always a great time. And it's also a reason why
Sam Valley: I don't particularly like going to the huge going to the huge events because I've been to I've been to several of them at this point. And like I've I don't think I've ever
Sean: Because I've been I've been to several of them at this point and like I've I don't think I've ever
Sam Valley: been in a room with a thousand people in it and still felt alone. as I do as in a huge tournament when I when I where I know like
Sean: Million percent.
Sam Valley: one person. Like yeah, I might go to like the Lang go event of Tennessee and I know and I'm you know Kyle's there, Andy's there, Swainie's there, a B's there, you're there. Like everyone, everyone who's a everyone who's anyone in CDH is there. But like I don't can I don't talk to them as much because there's a thousand people there. And it's like I feel like I'm not with anybody right now, even though I'm surrounded by people. So it's like
Sean: So it's like I don't know, that's why I love Logan so much. Because everyone everyone there is like we're all just guys hanging out.
Sam Valley: I don't know, that's why I love locals so much. It's 'cause everyone everyone there, it's like we're all just guys hanging out and having a good time on a Saturday playing magic. It's not like it's competitive enough to be fun, but it's like not comp too competitive to where it's like
Sean: It's not like it's competitive enough to be fun, but it's like not too competitive to where it's like
Sam Valley: like, you know, you want to throw a punch the guy next to you. So
Sean: Yeah, did you play sports in high school? Yeah,
Sam Valley: Yeah, I play tennis and swimming.
Sean: I played tennis and swimming. Okay. So I swam too. basically you would get to a point where you'd play like the regional championship. So like I I'm from Canton,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: Ohio, and you would do like the Federal League track and field meet, and you can win that or you you know everybody 'cause they're all from the surrounding schools and you freaking know them, right? That is really fun because you're competing against the people you know. Then you go to like the state meet
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: and you're like, Who's this guy? Who's seven foot five and I isn't like not talking to me right now and I have to run a four hundred against this guy? Like And you just don't
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: know them, so you're just in your own little bubble. And it's exactly that. It's like, it's that that local scene versus the the national scene, which I'm not trying to knock on either one. I think there's a place for both of them. But I think last year, this past year, the 2026 season, everybody tried to blow out these huge events, and they were like traveling all over the place, and that was what everybody talked about on the frickin' podcasts. And I I just I felt like we lost a little bit. Everybody got tired, but also everybody kind of like got into that national scene and wasn't really vibing with it. And I think the lifeblood of C D H is the local scene. It really is. Like if we have a healthy
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, it is.
Sean: local and regional scene, the format's fine, you know?
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean like I think when I started first started playing C E D H we were lucky to get twenty five twenty to twenty five people at a local event. Now it's like Better Plays every month has sixty sixty five people. Warp Gate in Columbus could
Sean: Dude eighty. Or gate and Columbus could
Sam Valley: have that too if you know like there's a lot like the ev like The these stores can absolutely run events and all have sixty people in each of them. They just need to be consistent. They need to have consistent pricing. And like it just need and they need to create a friendly environment. And a lot of stores do that really well. And if you can do that locally, it will also just invite more big tournaments to your area because you have all of these stores running 10Ks and it's like, hey, there's a scene there. Let me take my big C D H company or my
Sean: more big tournaments to your area because you have all of these stores running ten Ks and it's like, there's a C there, let me take my big C D H company or buy
Sam Valley: what's the big card company? S C G con. Maybe maybe take my S C G con to that city more often. And then those tournaments get bigger and you get more tournaments and it will travel your city. Like it's just like a cascading effect where if the local scene's
Sean: CG con CG con CG con to that city more often and then those tournaments get bigger and you get more tournaments from the city. Like it's just like a cascading effect where if the local C
Sam Valley: really, really good, the national scene will will be drawn there. So
Sean: Yep. And I think like when you think about one v one, kind of drawing the parallel and I I promise I will let you go, brother, but I think this is a really cool conversation.
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: R CQs, right? They're regional qualifiers.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: I think if you think about it that way, you could think about like the warpgate invitational that we played in or the better plays invitational that's coming up as those like R CQ moments, and then the people that top those could go to like a Wizards national, you know, basically circuit, you know what I mean? Or national tournament or whatever. And that could be what it is, right?
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: But I think that ninety nine percent of the gameplay should be at that local regional level because it's just it's just a better culture and a better vibe and like you'll get less lying and cheating and well maybe not cheating,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: I don't know. You can't protect I you you kinda can police cheating when you know the person. Like if they do it once you're like, hey, you mother, you know don't do that shit. Like call a judge on. Like, let's deck tech every time. Yeah, exactly.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Like this person always marks the same three cards in their in their deck. Let's call a judge on them. Like those that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Sean: Ugh, yeah, man. Well that's cool, dude. And I I yeah, I know you're not like a a big national tournament grinder, but don't sell yourself short, man. You every tournament you're in, I'm like, son of a bitch, I gotta play against Sam again, you know? Like I I appreciate that. Yeah, ma'am. All right. Well, Sam, thank
Sam Valley: Yeah, I I app I appreciate that for sure.
Sean: you so much for coming on, dude. I'll let you go. last thing I like to do before every I let everybody go is any shout outs. Anybody you'd like to say thanks or say what's up. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, Logan O'Brien, Brandon Bordeaux, two best friends in the whole world. You guys rock, you guys are awesome to go to events with. everyone who I've played against all the time. Like, you know, everyone's ever the magic community is a great community, and I'm really glad that I found it. So like all the TOs are really great, everyone's really nice. It's shout out to everybody else, honestly. Like
Sean: that's cool, man. Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it, man. Alright, I'll talk to you later, man. See ya.
Sam Valley: Hey, how's it going?
Sean: I'm good, man. How are you?
Sam Valley: I'm doing well. Mondays. Mondays are Mondays, you know.
Sean: You flying on cloud nine after this weekend? Yeah. I was was laughing pretty hard.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I was I was laughing pretty hard yesterday after thinking about all the all the moments from the finals and everything. It was it was a really good time and some some cool moments with two of my favorite players, so
Sean: Dude. Two of your favorite players. I mean someone in that pod sucks.
Sam Valley: I no, I just don't know him very well. the Yussan player was I played him in s Swiss and he did really well. he beat me then. but I just don't know him very well. So but Andy and Kyle I've
Sean: Yeah, Craig.
Sam Valley: played dozens of times, so
Sean: Craig's an interesting dude, man. He plays like he'll play Yison and he'll play Tim Nodargo and then he'll play some other random shit. And he is like so aloof. The dude just does not he doesn't seem like the brain that he is, and then like all of a sudden
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: he's like, All right, let me execute this like twenty twenty step line in Yisan. You're like, Okay, cool. Thanks.
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, he it definitely surprised me how resilient that deck was. Like I you know, thirty eight bow master things later he was still kicking, so
Sean: and I think you like snapbacks from shit or something. I don't even know. At one point you had to like get rid of the Yi san or something like that. Swords? Mm-hmm. Yeah, man.
Sam Valley: Yeah, it took like Yeah, I just swore to the E Son on Andy's end step just to not lose. Yeah. It was crazy.
Sean: how's the fall been for ya? Good, good. We're decorating for
Sam Valley: Good, good. We're decorating for spooky season right now. Got all the spider ribs up on the porch and all the decorations out in the front yard. It looked it's looking good.
Sean: Heck yeah. Are you you're in Columbus, right? Yep. Yeah. Where you at? Are you in North Columbus? Are you in Grandview or where you at? I'm like south southeast where in Reynoldsburg.
Sam Valley: I'm like south southeast. We're in Reynoldsburg, just below Broad Street.
Sean: Okay, cool, yeah. So I went to O O S U for for undergrad, so I used to live down there. I used to live obviously on campus and then I lived in Grandview for a while. So I love Columbus dude. I love coming down there.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice area. I really enjoy living here. It's kinda get the best of everything. Get I get some city, some small town, you it's
Sean: Mm-hmm. If you can get outside, it's 270, yeah. If you can get outside the belt,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: you're like golden, man. As soon as you get in the belt,
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: you're like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll get out of here. Yeah, so brought you on because, you know, you I I remember you were like, I I texted you and I was like, hey, you wanna come on the podcast? And you were like, why? And I was like, why me? Because, bro,
Sam Valley: Yeah, by me.
Sean: like you I like every time we play, I feel like You're just like somebody who I always listen to the opinion of, in game and out of game. So and also you've been around since I started playing. Like my first tournament,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: y remember that game? You probably don't remember this, but like Kirk held me up like a machine gun against you and Mitch. And you guys are both like, Are you fucking kidding me? Like Kirkland. And it was just like this devolution. But I just remember like you've you've always been there since the beginning of my like playing C D H, so I remember
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, I remember I think the first time you beat me you were on that Saltai enchantment deck. And I was I was so impressed. I was so impressed
Sean: Dude, Tatsu no you're the one it w
Sam Valley: dude. That was a sick list. You were you Yeah, that was a really good game. We've we've been playing forever.
Sean: It's such a terrible commander, but I was like, if I put enough hate bears in this shit and a kinnan, I will make this work, you know. Yeah, I know
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, I know it worked. Like Hallbreaker did Hallbreaker things.
Sean: it worked. Yeah. Yep, yep. Just like delay the game as long as possible until I could get a a kinnan in a valley flood call. It's basically Seeker Commander Kinnan, you know. But
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: yeah, man. That was fun. And then by the way, you were like, Why me? And then I'm like, like, I checked out the top deck profile. Not that I'm gonna like publicly you put it up here in front of people, but I'll just say out loud, you Bro, you got a forty five percent win rate and a fifty percent conversion rate. Like what
Sam Valley: Yeah, it's it's pretty good this year. been I've been on a hot streak for sure. I think I found my I think I found the archetype that I play. before this year, I was kinda like hopping around between decks. I
Sean: Like.
Sam Valley: think I made it a goal of mine in 2025 for some reason to play a different deck at each tournament that I went to. that is a really cool thing to do if you're trying to explore like the meta and have fun. it is not a very good thing to do if you want to win consistently.
Sean: Yep. Yep. You're talking to the guy that brought Rogside and then Shang Chi like back to ba you it's like I'm doing the exact same thing you just did. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Valley: So it Yeah. Yeah. no, it was a i I learned a lot from that. but you really have to kind of stick with the deck and r learn the the ins and outs
Sean: The ends and out.
Sam Valley: of it to really perform well. So I've been kind of sitting on Tim Nothracios and Kinnan, which are kind of the same shell of a deck. Like you're
Sean: sitting with Timoth Rassios and Ken, which are kind of the same shell of a deck.
Sam Valley: trying to do the same things. you know, Tim Nothracios just always has a lot more protection. And then Kenan has a lot more advantage. So it's kind of, you know, six in one hand, half dozen in the other kind of deal.
Sean: Yeah. So when you're talking about those two lists, those are like Simic Core and then obviously T and T has the consistency of the tutors and the silence effects too, right? Like you're talking about that's what you're talking
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: about for protection. what draws you to like that? Let's just get right into that. So what draws you into like that color wedge and that playstyle?
Sam Valley: Well, I think it stems a lot from my casual commander and casual magic days. which I still dabble with casual magic. I just don't have enough time to play these days with work and all that stuff. So it's kind of my side. But I always like the big spells. I like doing the flashy things, I like cascading, you know. it's just kind of that niche where you can like in canon play these six, seven drop creatures that are normally just terrible.
Sean: it's just kind of that niche where you can like in Kenneth play these six seven drop creatures that are normally just terrible. Yeah, I don't know what happened. Like ghosts, just like paranormal activity, bro. Just came in your room while you were talking about casual. It's your ghost of casual. you know you can resolve these six seven drops that would never see play in any other deck. and it and that's what draws a lot of new players to Kenneth as well. and just kind of
Sam Valley: Yeah. My dog's walking. My dog's walking around. Yeah. you know, you can resolve these six, seven drops that would never see play in any other deck. and it and that's what draws a lot of new players to Kinnan as well. and just kind of getting into that archetype of controlling the board. I started on Wounded's List as K on Kinnan. and it was a little bit too like haty for me. Like it kind of just hated people out of the game
Sean: getting into that archetype of controlling the board. I started on Goomet's list, this Kip Honkin. and it was a little bit too like haty for me. Like it kinda just hated people out of the game.
Sam Valley: and didn't just win. Which is a lot of the reason why I'm switching back to TNT is because Kinnan does a really good
Sean: Which is a lot of the reason why I'm switching back to TNT is because Kinon doesn't really
Sam Valley: job of overw of assembling overwhelming advantage and then drawing the game. is what I found on it. My draw rate is much higher on Kinnan because I can basically take, you know, Holebreaker Horror on the board,
Sean: Yeah, I know. Because I can basically take, you know, a rigor core on the board.
Sam Valley: fifteen cards in hand, and then somehow I'm faced with something that just makes me draw. And 'cause I just can't resolve that silence or I can't resolve that.
Sean: fifteen cards in hand and then somehow I'm faced with something that just makes me draw. Yeah. I just can't resolve that silence or I can't resolve that
Sam Valley: Grand Abolisher to say, hey, stop it. I'm gonna win now. and that's kind of where I lean back into TNT with the silences
Sean: grand abolition that says, hey stop it. I'm gonna win now. Yeah. And that's kind of where at the attack of the TNT silences.
Sam Valley: and now Five Fairy and you know, all the all the good stuff that brings.
Sean: Yeah, I think it's interesting 'cause like I when I played Kinnan, I
Sam Valley: Exactly.
Sean: I think I played it four months ago. I played like a Staxi Turbo Kinnan. And I got one win on that. It was at the warp gate like two months ago. And then I was just like, man, dude, people respect the shit out of Kinnan. Like that's a big thing, is like e
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: everybody nowadays, especially like it won the MV, it won a bunch of stuff. It's very consistent. I think it won European Championship as well.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, I don't doubt it.
Sean: Yeah. It's just so good and like such a signpost thing to remove from the board. And it's you're like always the You can always be the deflection threat, you know what I mean, when canon, but TNT just lies so under the radar in comparison. It does, and it also has a much stronger back.
Sam Valley: yeah. It it ing it does, and it also has a much stronger backup plan if you do get overrespected. You can just resolve a Timna, and as long as someone's not threatening to end
Sean: You can just resolve a tenda and as long as someone's not prepping it.
Sam Valley: the game, you can grind anyone out. Kinnan is like you said, it is a magnet to people doing to people making mistakes in the game because you are there. I have had people end step mystical tutor with two cards in their hand and they find red blast to kill Kinnan, then pass.
Sean: canon ha is like you said, it is a magnet to people doing to people making mistakes in the game because you are there. I have had people Bentstep Mystical Tutor with two cards in their hand. They find red blast to kill Kinnan then. Like it's just like and like yeah, I get it, I have eighteen mana and I can but brother you have two cards, like you're not in the game. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Like it's just like and like yeah, I get it, I have eighteen mana and a cannon. But brother, you have two cards. Like you're not in the game if you don't resolve a Nas. Like why are you mystical tutoring for removal? Like it's just kind of Yeah. Yeah, like
Sean: Yeah, quit olli ooping to someone else and just destroying the cannon, yeah. Yeah.
Sam Valley: I'll just recast it. You're not doing anything. You're not accomplishing anything other than mildly inconveniencing my next turn's game plan. It's like yeah, it definitely gets way more hate it gets It gets, I think, equal hate to what
Sean: I think equal heat.
Sam Valley: it deserves, but in the wrong times in the game.
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: Like, you know, to at least to me as a as the pilot. Like I'm like, man, that really sucked. But not just sucked because it stopped me from winning, which was sort of the goal, but it sucked because now even if I could win, I can't stop the next guy. So it's like that kind of balancing act w
Sean: Yeah, man, that really sucked. But not just sucked because it stopped me from winning, which was the goal, but it sucked because now even if I could win, I can't stop the next guy. Yeah. I don't have the resources. So it's like that kind of balancing act.
Sam Valley: that where you want your opponents to have resources, but you don't want them to have too much resources. Kinnan
Sean: resources but you don't want them have too much resources. Kinnan
Sam Valley: ha always has too much resources so it gets to hate to put it below the other people at the table. in an in an in an unfair way sometimes. but you know don't I'm not saying don't kill Kitten, but like,
Sean: ha always has too much resources, so it gets to hate to put it below the other people table. Dude, for sure. In a in in a in an unfair way sometimes. but you know, don't I'm not saying don't kill Kennan, but like
Sam Valley: you know, yeah, it just that's that's why I stopped playing it. It's because people just kind of started making mistakes and I didn't have as much power in my voice as I did with TNT where I can say, hey man, look like, you know, I'm not that scary. Where when in reality I am. I am. But you know
Sean: that's that's why I stopped playing it is because people just kind of started making mistakes and I didn't have as much power in my voice as didn't get into the break and say, Hey man, look like you know I'm not that scary where when in reality I am. I am. But you know,
Sam Valley: It's way easier to convince people of that
Sean: it's way easier to convince people
Sam Valley: when you have, you know, Tim Nothracios or Timnochrom or Nick in the command zone.
Sean: Yeah, man. I mean like so for Kinnan, what I've learned kind of just like playing against the deck is I'm always looking for what's the the second or third spell they play, because that'll tell me the type of list that they're on. And so or also like how aggressively they mulligan too. If they're playing like a little flips or a mid-range Kinnan, they'll keep like a higher hand usually because they're just trying to play Dorks and Rocks and then spin. Or like,
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: you know, play some kind of mid-range plan. If they're like literally mulliganing to oblivion. I'm like, okay, well it's counter the draw engine. You like leave Kennet alone. Like you can leave Kennet the board all day because they're they're gonna flip into nothing five times out of seven. You know what I mean? And so I think the problem with the the the bifurcation of those two strategies is like bad players, especially in the Swiss, don't look for one of those two things, they just kill the cannon 'cause it's easier and you're just like, okay, well, I'm also a fourth of this game and I'm the one of the blue players. Like if you want to remove me from the game that's fine, but you better be freaking winning, like right now. You know what I mean? Like or you're probably gonna just die. So yeah, it's interesting man.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean even in my list where it's like I'm on like a yeah, I'm on like it's basically no bad cards, but I have like one or two more untappers for the one ring. you know, I have Hallbreaker Horror, and then the next creature that I could flip into that's the next highest CMC is High Fatrix Three. There's nothing in between. There's nothing over it, there's nothing in between, like it's just Hallbreaker that can end the game. So it's like, you know, people like, he's has seven mana, he hits flip, kill it. Nah, bro, I like what one in twenty I hit Hallbreaker Horror and then You just kill that instead, like it's you know, for sure.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, man. So so okay, we talked about those are the two primary decks and we'll get into the deck techs in a little bit, but tell me a little bit about how you got into C D H because I like starting with that and then also just a little bit about yourself too. So we know you're from Columbus, but how'd you get into playing Magic and C D H and then, you know, just anything else you wanna like fill in the backstory for sure.
Sam Valley: Yeah, so how I got into magic starts it is twenty twenty six. starts twenty-five years ago.
Sean: Holy shit.
Sam Valley: I started playing t kitchen table magic with my dad when I was seven. six, six years old. And we were just I think I had a mono black skeleton deck that had nightmare in it. The cre the the horse with like star star power toughness that equal number of swamps you control. That was like the deck that I played.
Sean: Yep. That was like the deck that I played.
Sam Valley: And he had like a goblins deck or something. And I think he creamed me because I was six and he was an adult, of course. but it was a really good learning experience into just enjoying the types of strategy games
Sean: And he had like a Goblin's deck or something. I think he creeped me because I was sixty one of course. Yeah. but it was a really good learning experience into just enjoying these types of strategy.
Sam Valley: that magic and it, you know, its counterparts kind of invite to your life, like Yu-Gi-Oh! magic. I played Yu-Gi-Oh! Pro a little bit when I was a when I was a young kid also. and like my dad just had this collection because he had played from like revised to man, I wanna say like
Sean: So and like my dad just had this collection because he had played from like revised to I wanna say like
Sam Valley: Whatever s whatever sets were coming out in like two thousand five. like so th that that nine year block he played, his
Sean: whatever s whatever sets were coming out like two thousand five. Hmm. Yeah, I couldn't tell ya. But that that nine year block he played his
Sam Valley: what my uncle played, hit their cousins played. so like they had a decent sized collection. Like, you know, when he gave me the collection, when I got back into it in like twenty seventeen, you know, there
Sean: it their customs play. so like they had a decent sized collection. Like, you know, when he gave me the collection when I got back into it in like twenty seventeen, you know
Sam Valley: were like three or four dual lands in there. There was a Grim Monolith, there was like a Wheel of Fortune, there were four or five ancient tombs, like there was a decent
Sean: decent
Sam Valley: chunk of you know in twenty seventeen those are worth a lot less than they are today still but even then it was like these are really cool magic cards so yeah I started getting into it then and then a little bit in high school I went to pre-releases and stuff. So I've been playing like my whole life. and then
Sean: chunk of you know in twenty seventeen that was a lot less linear based and but even then it was like these are really cool Mentor cards. So yeah I started getting into it then and then a little bit in high school I went to re releases and stuff. So I've been playing like whole life. and then
Sam Valley: how I got back it back into it and then at C E D H recently was like five years ago now I think. Shannon, my my girlfriend, her best friend from middle school and grade school
Sean: CEDH recently was like five years ago now, I think. Janet, my my girlfriend, her best friend from middle school, grade school.
Sam Valley: Her boyfriend was a really good friend of my current playgroup today. Ty
Sean: her boyfriend was a really good friend of my current playgroup today. Okay. Tyler
Sam Valley: Ohio, Cam Daddy D, like those guys. so I started playing Casual
Sean: Yeah. so I started playing cash.
Sam Valley: Magic with them on Mondays, Monday Night Magic at Dragon's Lair. And we played that for years, two years probably. And then I think it was Ty that was like, hey, we should check out C E D H. It's like that higher power stuff we're trying to get into. And ever since then we could we're hooked, we stopped playing casual. Like we just started
Sean: two years probably and then I think it was tied that was like hey we should check out CDH like that higher power stuff we're trying to use. Yeah and ever since then we were hooked we stopped playing cash.
Sam Valley: playing C E D H. we went through a time where it was three rog size and me on Kinnan as our pod and that was terrifying. it was it was hell. yeah.
Sean: Jesus Crime, that sucks for you.
Sam Valley: Not a good time. but yeah, that's kind of how we started to get into it. We went we started going to warp gate tournaments and the tournaments they hold at Guard Tower and Little Root here in Columbus, those are all stores.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: and just kind of go in monthly and just play it more games and then like I think. Beginning of last year is when I started kind of taking it more seriously and
Sean: beginning of last year is when I started kinda taking it more seriously.
Sam Valley: trying to get to the bigger tournaments and doing whatever. Obviously, I was still kind of trying out different decks and exploring the meta and exploring everything and trying to learn as much as I could. So I was my win rate was lower, but I was just like learning a whole lot. especially on the politics side, which is something that I struggled with early on, because that's like that's probably 70% of the game, honestly, is just how you can talk and and not manipulate, but like, you know, almost
Sean: I was still kind of trying out different decks and exploring the meta and exploring everything and trying to learn so I was my win rate was lower but I was just learning a whole lot. especially on the politics side. that's like that's probably seventy percent of the game, honestly, is just how you can talk and and not manipulate but like you know
Sam Valley: manipulate other players and then do it what you want.
Sean: Yeah, I feel like you and I learned how to politic alongside each other because we had like brushes
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: together where we would like have friction. And then we now I feel like when I sit down at a pot, I'm so comfortable with you because I know how you politic and you know how I politic. So I feel like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: to talk to our last game that you and I actually played together, I think it was when you and I got lied to in Columbus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You lied to us. Yeah. Crazy game. But the whole
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that nib visit player who lied to us. Yeah.
Sean: time you and I were kind of tete à tete, and I remember there was one moment in the middle where You I I kinda like over threat assessed you and you like, Hey man And I like, you're right. That you're not this isn't the right time to be talking about Sam, it's the right time to be talking about somebody else in this pod. And like that just shows like When you play in locals especially, or like you learn good players like different tendencies, you can kinda like almost get comfortable with them. And it's kind of crazy, man. I thought you were just because you're like somebody who I know from the first tournament I ever went to, I thought you'd been playing forever. But knowing that you've only been playing for like maybe six or nine months longer than I have, it's kind of weird to to think about things in that lens, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean it at the at the core of it, C D H is just a it's just a web of decision trees
Sean: It's just the I would set in trees.
Sam Valley: and it's and and it's a politic talking to other people game. If you can logically follow decision trees and like, hey, if I make this decision, what happens? If you can do if you can assess those and you can talk to your other players at the table, you can learn this format really fast. I'll shout out one player who is everyone knows, Isaac. he started playing magic.
Sean: You can logically follow decision trees and like, hey, if I make this decision, what happens? If you can if you can assess those and you can talk to your other players at the table, you can learn this format really fast. I'll shout out one player who is everyone knows, Isaac. he started playing magic
Sam Valley: like two years ago. Like magic total. Like he's probably
Sean: like two years ago. Like magic total. That's insane. Like he's
Sam Valley: what num top five player like in the world. Started playing Magic two years ago. Like from nothing. like it's just that's kind of like, you know, the golden, like,
Sean: yeah, easy. Yeah. From nothing. like it's just that's kind of like, you know, the golden
Sam Valley: you know, stars align situation. But like, yeah, I mean
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: it boils down to those two things really. So
Sean: Yeah. It's crazy, man. And also you're one of the first people to come on here that said their parents got them into magic. Like I think everybody
Sam Valley: Billy.
Sean: else that I've talked to was like, Yeah, my friend from high school or something like that, but I think it's a unique thing for like someone's parents to understand the game and like for you to be able to communicate them. Do you talk about like your tournaments with your dad sometimes or no?
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean I tell him that I go to tournaments. he kind of he really only played casually with like his family and friends and stuff. but like he knows like he knows the general flow of the game. He knows the the rules to a certain degree. He can follow along with what I'm telling him. so yeah, I mean I talk to him pretty often about magic. Not like, you know, in depth of, you know, the
Sean: Yeah, yeah, though.
Sam Valley: card names and stuff 'cause he wouldn't know what they are, but like, yeah, no, we talk a lot. He's
Sean: talk a and he's pretty much everything that he and I did as a kid. I
Sam Valley: Pretty much everything that he and I did as a kid, I still do today. Video games, magic, like the sports that I did as a kid, like all tennis was a big one. We played all the time, tennis and I still play today. Like it's it's yeah, he's like,
Sean: It's yeah, he's like
Sam Valley: you know, hobbies are hereditary is what I say. So
Sean: For sure, dude. Yeah. It is funny. I came from a family where like my parents really didn't have too many hobbies, but my mom ran marathons. She's like a huge runner, and so I picked that one up. It is funny, dude. It is so hereditary. That's crazy. I didn't think about it that
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: way. But yeah, man. Like, yeah, I think about that sometimes because we're I've been married for a couple of years and we're probably gonna start a family pretty soon. I don't know. Like I don't wanna like air that shit on the internet and then my wife's like, What the hell are you doing? But, you know, eventually I I'm I would like to have children and like the the one of the most exciting things to me is gonna be able to like teach them how to play magic, you know, because I feel like
Sam Valley: yeah. I mean that's shoot, that's one of the reasons to have a family, right? You know, you want to have someone in your
Sean: I wonder if
Sam Valley: life that you can enjoy your stuff with and that extends
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: to your wife, your kids, you know, everything. So
Sean: Yeah. And it's crazy. Like, so let's go back to the fact that you were like, 70% of the game is talking. I always love so I was listening to Max P and and Hire had a podcast about Dak Thayton, the new deck that came out. It's crazy to like after a while I listen to these podcasts and they'll talk about cards specifically, like, you know, we got like Samut or something like that, or we have like Geist of Saint Thalia, I got some of these coming up here, like just kinda chilling on my desk
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm, it's good one.
Sean: and thinking about All this is is just new chess pieces to play with. And really, like, after a while I start thinking about like, what is that change in like the behavior of the game? It's not like n I don't care about the card necessarily as much anymore because It t I kinda just read the text and I go, okay, what kind of game is this gonna facilitate? Like what kind of politics is this gonna create? Do you think about that too sometimes? Like when you see these cards come out and like people freak out the sky's falling. Like when I see Dak, I go, it's it's it's too threatening. It's too threatening, it's gonna get hated out very quickly. You know what I mean? Of top tables specifically. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, decks like Dak are in a weird spot to me. and this also goes for like Rafa Mikey, this also goes for Atali, this goes for Gairuda, this goes for
Sean: spot to me. and this also goes for like graph and mikey, this goes for Tali, this goes for Garrett, this goes for
Sam Valley: the Aang, three color Aang, this goes for probably Y I'd classify Yidris here too, like the one of the good old good old day ones. all of these decks people are like, they're easy. You just have to play your commander.
Sean: probably ye I'd classify Ydris here too, like the one of the good old good old day ones. all of these decks people are like, they're easy. You just have to play your command
Sam Valley: And then the stuff the stu the things the things fall into your lap. But that's not the case. Like you have to be better at magic than you would have to be to
Sean: things fall into your lap, but that's not the case. Like you have to be better at magic than you would have to be
Sam Valley: play Blue Farm to do well with those decks. You have to be like twice as good of a magic player to put up the same results. Because yeah, you just cast your commander and then you probably win. But like to get there and when you don't just have the nuts requires so much political skill. Like you have to control the game to buy yourself time because the cards that you play don't do that.
Sean: A million percent. You have to be like twice as good of a magic player to put up the same results. Because yeah, you just cast your commander and then probably win. But like to get there and when you don't just have the nuts requires so much political score. You have to control the game to buy yourself time because the cards you play don't do that.
Sam Valley: Like yeah, I Dax Dax pieces by time, but they
Sean: Like yeah, I Dax Dax pieces by time.
Sam Valley: really don't. What happens is you play them and then someone hates them and then someone else wins. You have to control that. Like and you can't do it with your cards
Sean: You have to control that. Like and you can't do it.
Sam Valley: because you don't have Like you have to do it with your political power, like
Sean: And the game's different in the Swiss than it is in the top cut, right? Like people were expecting way less in Swiss and you can just show up with
Sam Valley: Yep. People respect you. People respect you way less in Swiss. Like you can just show up with Rogsai and cast Nas and everyone's like, yeah, okay. But in Swiss, everyone's like, okay, they're prep or in Top Cut, everyone, everyone there is usually better players. So they know exactly what your deck does as opposed to having a faint
Sean: But in Swiss everyone's like, okay, they're pre in top cut, everyone everyone there is usually better players, so they know exactly what your deck does as opposed to having a fake.
Sam Valley: idea. which we'll I'll actually talk about that later as when we go into the tournament recap, because I did not do that. but it was versus time and I have I need to get better at time because
Sean: you better tie it.
Sam Valley: I don't know what time does. I basically just had to hate that deck
Sean: I makes them attempt to hate that.
Sam Valley: out of the out of the game because I didn't know when I was losing to it. but yeah, like people know what you're doing. People know what you're up to. So you don't have the same like you don't have the same political power and you have drastically less card power. Because on Dak, people know, I have two fierce I have two force of negation the script monolith or I die. Like you they just do it. people hold up force of
Sean: But yeah, like people know what you're doing, people know what you're up to. So you don't have the same like you don't have the same political power and you have drastically less card power. Yeah. Because on Dak, people know, I have two fears I have two force negation script models AI. Yep. Like they just do it. people hold up force
Sam Valley: will, like me and Andy or no, not Andy. Who was it? no, it was Andy in our in our second round. It was me, Andy, the DAC player, and someone else. And I was like, and Andy was going for a LED or demonic shooter crack LED, go get Necro line. He like, Hey, do you have a counter spell? I like, here's a force it will. I want to use it on Dak. And he was like, All right, bet, I'll go get a fish. Like people just that that kind of thing happens
Sean: Sick.
Sam Valley: all the time in Top Cut, never in Swiss. so like you just have to if you're playing those decks, you have to be prepared for that. And you have to know that you might not get there.
Sean: Yep. so like you just have if you're playing those decks, you to prepare for that and you want to know that you might get there. Also, I think the another cool thing about this is I was thinking about this because I went from Rogsai to Shang Chi, and those are radically different, but also
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: similar strategies in the sense that they're trying to win in the same number of turns. But
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: holy hell, dude, I the politics is radically different with the Shang Chi deck because no one lets you have shit, and also
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: you have no agency. Like The only agency
Sam Valley: You don't.
Sean: I had in the games was like, I can go get a collector oof and people were like, Don't do that you know? It's just like okay.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I mean sho shoot on Rogsai even like you have a fish on board and you're like, well I have this counter spell. That's that's like like one pact of negation in Rogsai is probably about equal to the entire agency if you had all 100 cards in your hand in Shang-Chi.
Sean: Literally. Yeah, dude. Seriously. So it and it's funny, the games pace differently and the politics is so different, so I don't know, I just it was a it was a super crazy different tournament than the one previously and I've enjoyed the shit out of it to be honest. It was just like I I didn't realize by the end of the tournament that I can't tempo myself to stop other players when I'm playing a mono green strategy. You need to just jam. Like you can't go.
Sam Valley: Yeah, you just have to go.
Sean: Yeah, two games I tried to save the day and I we just died. I I ended up on the right side of changing, you're not feeding fish. True.
Sam Valley: I the on the bright side on Chang Chi, you're not feeding a fish. So
Sean: Truth. That's the that's the thing you're gonna see on turn one is fish honoristic. So Yeah. Yeah, less yeah less less things stopping you, I guess, on that one.
Sam Valley: that's the that's the thing you're gonna see on turn one is fish not auristic. So yeah, you got less you got less less things stopping ya, I guess, on that one.
Sean: Yeah. Well cool man. Alright. So yeah, let's get into the tournament because the reas the by the way, I don't know what happened, but I was like, Hey you wanna come on the podcast? And you were like, sure and I almost feel like you mentally were like, Well we need something to talk about, so I'm gonna win this tournament. You know what I mean?
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah, no, it it was definitely great timing and even better luck. So
Sean: Yeah, let's talk about it. So you last this past weekend, so today is the twelfth. Yeah, October twelfth. so this past Saturday we went to Better Plays and we had another freaking I think it was like seventy five players.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: and it w so that's a gold plus and you took it down, dude. You number one. Eight one day one, let's take a look here.
Sam Valley: Yeah. It's a great tournament. Yeah, so round one, I was I don't even know who I was. the thing doesn't tell you who you played. It's
Sean: Let's go to pairings here and let's get sand valley. Boom.
Sam Valley: lame. well it tells you who you played, but not what decks. round one I was in a three-pod, first seat. in second seat was Bridget, the Selesnia deck. In third seat was Rao. So I'm sitting there on TNT, quivering in my boots.
Sean: first C. In the second C was Bridge and Silesia deck. Third C was Brown. So I'm sitting there on TNT, quivering and
Sam Valley: luckily I Brigid played turn one Queen of Dale, and I was like, I'm cooked. Raoul cast turn one Soul Ring, I was able to misstep it, which saved my life. I will always misstep the turn one mana rock if I have it from Raoul, because that is such a tempo piece for that deck. they go from casting Raoul, then spells to just casting Rao. So I was able to miss up the Ral, which he said afterwards, won't be the game he was gonna win turn two, which obviously it's Raoul. and then at that time, let's see, he untapped on turn Bridget played Bridget on turn two, Raoul played Raoul, and or no, he didn't play Raoul, he played a tapped land that said, Hey, are we dead to Bridget? And I was like, Yeah, probably. He asked me what I was doing on my turn. I had a hand that was I my my board was Land Land Thracios S. Percentimal at
Sean: So I was able to miss up the Raoul, which he said afterwards won't be the game he was going to win turn two, which obviously is Raoul. and then at that time, let's see, he untapped on turn Bridget played Bridget on turn two, Raoul played Raoul, and or no, he didn't play Raoul, he played a tapped land that said, Hey, are we dead in Bridget? And I like, Yeah, probably. Probably what I was doing on my turn, I had a hand that was my my board was land land for Asias S percent one.
Sam Valley: that time. I just kept a trim one S for Sentinel with misstep. and and abrupt decay was in my hand too
Sean: and a Brunsa K was like.
Sam Valley: for Brigid. and I said, Well, I have Swansong, Mana Vault, Land, Tainted Pacts, and then Abrupt Decay and one other dead card. Like, here's my hand, I'm cast a Timna and swinging. and then he cast lightning bolts on the Brigid. And I was like,
Sean: And I said, Well I have Swansong, Nana Vault, Lamp, Tate Impact, and then Arupt Decay and one of their dead card. Here's my hand, I'm casting Timna and swinging. and then he cast lightning bolts on the bridge. good, okay.
Sam Valley: and then I was like, okay, S for Sentinel trigger, and it chord. So
Sean: So
Sam Valley: I I went I untapped and was like, Hey, I just drew this from I just drew this from the Esper Sentinel. I feel like I have
Sean: Yeah, I just drew this from I just drew this with the S P Sentinel.
Sam Valley: to jam. So he was like, Yeah, probably. And he was and so I cast I played land, crop rod a different cradle, tap cradle for two, played manifold, was able to cord for Thossas with Tanefact. no
Sean: Ooh
Sam Valley: response. So I won turn three on the play. It was super lucky that because I wasn't getting a turn if if Bridget was alive and Rao had Raoul out, I was not
Sean: lucky that because I wasn't getting a turn if if Bridger was alive and Rao had Raoul out I was
Sam Valley: getting another turn from either player.
Sean: Hmm. So it was definitely just another first situation and went first, so I thought I had first. Heck yeah, dude. I mean I
Sam Valley: So it was definitely a just have it first situation and and luckily I went first, so I was able to have it first.
Sean: think look here's there's some high level play right there. Hey, Rao and Bridget. Bridget plays a creature, you're like, Cool, we're ch we're chilling for at least a turn, right? You gotta get the Bridget out next turn and then you they have to wait on a whole nother turn cycle, get haste, or at least have it not have summoning sickness and then they can win from there. So you
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: felt like you had the window for the tempo play right on the Rao. Which most players probably I probably would let that go because I'd be like, I still I gotta win before him and I gotta hold my protection piece up for my win, you know, like but you like sort of three five like that's fair literally any decumpt.
Sam Valley: Well, it's also a three pod. Like, if there was literally any deck in fourth seat and it was any deck that was out would that is what I would consider in the top ten, I probably would have not done miss I probably wouldn't have missed that. I don't know that I would have made the same decision. I I think that I sh probably should have made the same decision regardless, but I don't know if I would. so like a rogue sci, I'm like, all right, well,
Sean: Yeah, you'd be a little more hesitant, right?
Sam Valley: Soul Ring versus Dark Red Necro, like I gotta hold this up. but yeah, no, it was
Sean: Yep. but yeah, no it was it was
Sam Valley: It was a r it was a
Sean: a it was a
Sam Valley: quick but good game. So yeah, both players were were were nice dudes.
Sean: Heck yeah. Alright, round two. We crushed them wow, look at this pod, dude. You got Bond, you Andy, you got Jane man, that's a good pod.
Sam Valley: Yeah, it was me, Andy on Nick Fury, Bond on Dak, James was playing I can look him up. James was playing Sissey. yeah, James was terrifying. James was playing Sisse. this was a longer game. I think it ended on
Sean: Do you mean to look him up? I can look him up. James was playing Sis A. yeah, James was terrifying. James was playing Sis A. this was a longer game, I think it
Sam Valley: turn five or six. but it basically came down to Andy, like I was mentioning earlier. He had the Vamp Tutor on N
Sean: Came down to Andy like I was mentioning earlier, he had the VAM tutor on
Sam Valley: step for for LED to then his hand was sacked, by the way. It was a turn
Sean: His hand was stacked by the way it was
Sam Valley: two win with breach. or Necro if he resolved the spells that he wanted to. but I was able to I was I kept a hand that was I actually have
Sean: I kept a hand that was actually
Sam Valley: it here. Hold on let me pull up my phone. it was versus Dak, so it's like okay I gotta have a Force of Will or something. I kept a hand that was Tundra, Exotic Orchard, Fierce, Soul Rings, Force of Will, and Enlightened Tutor. so on the play, turn two Aristic with Force and Fierce. I was like, it doesn't get better than that. so I was able to resolve Aristic
Sean: was versus Dax, I like, okay, I gotta have Force of Moves. Heck yeah. I kept the hand that was Tundra, the Exotic Orchard, Fierce, Soul Rings, Force of Will, and then Light. So on the play, turn two recipe with Force of Fierce. Yeah. It doesn't get than that. No. so I was able to resolve.
Sam Valley: on the turn on turn two. I was also able to stop Andy from having either breach or necropoten by talking to him on turn two. And then at that point, Dak just stacks out the board, which was terrible for Andy, but for was great for me and Sisse. because I
Sean: And then at that point the act just stacks out the board. Which was terrible for Andy, but for was great for me and Sisse.
Sam Valley: was able to develop a Timna plan, I was able to get like I was able to get a King Tachala out, I was able to get a Cabbage Merchant out, I was able have mana as the game developed, which was important because the stacks that Bond played was like turn three.
Sean: because the stacks that Bond played was like turn three
Sam Valley: Defense grid pass for some reason. then turn four, which it made a turn around because everyone held up three mana. Because, you know, me,
Sean: defense screen pass for some reason. then turn four which it made a turnaround because everyone held up three mana because you know
Sam Valley: James, Andy all responsible. and then he went Thorn of Amethysts pass. and that, you know, made it slower. Which at that point Andy was probably he probably could have won on his turn if he got there, but it was much harder than
Sean: that point Andy was probably he probably could have won on his turn if he got there, but it was much harder.
Sam Valley: me and Sissy, obviously, because I can make a lot more
Sean: Big lot.
Sam Valley: mana. We had we both me and Andy both had tithes out of that point. I I played Tide, he caught he flash photography it, you know, as people do. and then Sissei had like Sise, Lavinia,
Sean: I I played side e kind e flash photography that you know, as people do. Yep. and then Sisay had like sise with
Sam Valley: Lotho, nine mana. Like we were cooked. if Sissei had more than just colorless mana. They had like mana vault and delighted halfling with like four lands. So but yeah, it was a it was a really terrifying game. All three of us were gonna present wins. I was able to resolve cord for fibblefip.
Sean: Resolve cord for fibbleton. What did you just say to me? Yeah. so I d I had an op about, which was my
Sam Valley: Yeah. so I don't I had an Oppo out, which was my attacker. Bond didn't have any creatures, and I was like, well, I know Andy has packed, and I know Andy has chain of vapor because it was revealed earlier. maybe not the chain of vapor, but I know he had removal
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: because he hinted at it. but he had packed
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: for sure. and I was like, well, I can probably cord for fibble thip instead of Thoracle, and he's probably more likely to use removal on my Oppo. So I did that. And I had decon in hand and I got Fibliflip on board, swung a bond in response to the trigger I cast, or no, he tried to chain of vapor the oppo in response to it attacking. And I had a misstep in my hand that I was able to pay for. and so I misstepped it and Andy was tapped out at that point. I was able to bait the pact from Sisse by casting survival fist beforehand. so I went survival, packed, let it ca let it get countered, tutored Fibliflip, swung, Andy had chain of vapor, misstepped and then I deconed right after. And
Sean: tried to chain a vape for the oppo in response to it with attacking and I had a misstep in my hand that I was able to pay for. And so I misstepped it and Andy was tapped out at that point. I was able to bait the packed from Sisse if I passed the survival fest beforehand. So I went survival packed like Anthletic encounter, tutored ripple tip, swung, Andy had chain of vape where I misstepped it and then I declocked right after. Dude what a line.
Sam Valley: And because of the di because of defense grid thorn thorn of Amethyst, no one had mana to interact. Everyone everyone's hands were stacked. But it like, you know, the like one counter spell from each. So I just I got there. And Andy, I
Sean: Yeah, man. I just I got there and
Sam Valley: think, definitely untapped in one, so it was good.
Sean: Yep, yep. Awesome. So you threaded a needle right there. Awesome. Okay.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So you're crushing the tournament. Dude, these early wins against great players, they just like do so much for your confidence, right? You're like, all right, well, the can't get scarier
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: than that. So let's just keep on jamming.
Sam Valley: yeah, next game. short game, but it's a draw. I think basically what happened
Sean: I think basically what happened
Sam Valley: is Kyle cast Bolus' Citadel on turn two or three and I commandeered it and then the guy in third seat was like I have a swan song
Sean: Steve was like, I'm song.
Sam Valley: and we were like draw and then we drew. so
Sean: And then we're
Sam Valley: but I'd like to be I'd like to point out that I was responsible for for Kyle's only non-wins of the day.
Sean: Yeah, man. Kyle took the he basically just like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: crafted the list that I brought to work it the week before. I think he has like off by three cards and he just went absolute ham. I can't you can't give a guy like Kyle that deck. He destroyed the event. He was like I think he was four one in Swiss. Like he obliterated the number one.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, I know he he destroyed the event. He was like I think he was four one in Swiss. Like he obliterated it. He was number one all the way through, no contest. It was crazy.
Sean: I just want to call that, by the way, this chance guy. I love chance because he always brings Crick and every time I talk to him he shows me his word of command and Crick, which is a ridiculous
Sam Valley: my god.
Sean: card to play, but it in Crick it's it's four life. And he always
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: tells me how he uses it. And I just I that's my that is my favorite magic card, so it's just hilarious that he plays it. I think that he you he used it
Sam Valley: I think that he you he used it in that game. Charlie cast a rystic study and Crick goes word of command targeting Kyle because he knows he has a fierce and then just cast Kyle's fierce on rystic. And we were like we were like, what? So yeah, chance is a great guy. I played him twice, both games. He was he was a stud. He was awesome. He was awesome to play against. I don't think he was I don't think he was really in
Sean: amazing like You're the man. He's cool dude. Awesome.
Sam Valley: either game. from like a able to win it perspective, but like he he you know, he was a good
Sean: Crick is a really tough deck in general to play, I feel like. Like there's so many other monocolor commanders that are better positioned. But the I respect it, dude. I respect it. I'm coming with this deck, this is my deck, and I'm gonna if I win with it I I'm the Crick guy, you know? Yeah. So very cool, man. Okay, draw and now on to man, you saw Crick you saw everybody in the finals throughout the Swiss. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah. Craig lost two in round four. that was a really good game. really showed how resilient Yassan is. I had an early Bow Masters. Zach basically neutered himself to clone it and then kill it. which was unfortunate for both of us, because he had to LED for
Sean: Zach basically neutered himself to clone it and then kill it, which was unfortunate for both of us because he had to LED.
Sam Valley: it and I lost my Bowmasters and his was a phantasmal image. So like it died real easy,
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: which was unfortunate because that would have been the the thing to stop Craig.
Sean: Thing to stop Craig. But
Sam Valley: But dude, I had to use I think in the turn before he won, I had to use abrupt decay, swords, fierce, force of negation, and pact on him. And on Craig. And then the turn that he won, I had to use two more pieces. Like or c or like the table, I had to like convince the table to try to use
Sean: dude, I had to use I think in the turn before he won, I had to use abrupt decay, swords, fierce, force of negation, and pact on him. On him and on Craig. And then the turn that he won, I had to use two more pieces, like, or could like the table, I had to like convince the table to try.
Sam Valley: two more pieces. Like It was insane how redundant or how resilient his deck was once it got off like if Yisan can get off the ground, it is almost unstoppable. You need to like literally hate it out of the game
Sean: It was insane how redundant or how resilient his deck was once it got off like if Yisan can get off the ground, it is almost unstoppable. It's over like literally hated out of it.
Sam Valley: to get it to not win the game. it is it is crazy
Sean: And it is crazy.
Sam Valley: being a mono green deck, how resilient that deck is. Appo stops it. I didn't have the luxury of that in that game.
Sean: Mm-hmm. Well let me ask you this, because we're gonna get to the f top four, but I had the same experience where I played Swainie in round five of last week and then I played him again in the finals, and I felt like losing to somebody that you're gonna see later actually kinda like It's like a little mini lesson before you actually have to play the game that matters and it's kinda nice. Where you're like, Okay, I learned that
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: screw that deck. I'm gonna kill that guy as much as I can, you know what I mean? Or a at least you kinda learn how it wins right before you have to play it again, which is interesting.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, in top four I was like I over respected him for sure. I'd killed like I had a Bowman but Bowmasters, we'll talk about the top four game, but literally Bowmasters, I like, No, you have no creatures the entire game. So Yeah.
Sean: Yep, yep. This is how I'm gonna survive to the late game 'cause you had to play that that that long of a game. Alright, let's go to round five. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, let me figure out hold on what was Ryan on? Ryan was on yeah, BC was on Timdechrom. Cody
Sean: Play my boy Bi. I'm I'm assuming Bichi was on Tuna Chrome. Yep.
Sam Valley: I don't remember this game very well. Rogsai. Walker was on Rogfrass. this game I think was a very political game. Everyone was kind of higher resources. We were able to stop wins back and forth, and then I was able to resolve five minutes of fairy. on someone's end step, and then untap and win. I think yeah, I got there with Fossadeekon again, just because I was able to get silence and play.
Sean: Nice. Okay, yeah. Five mana to fairy mage of Zalphir, I think, right? That's the guy? Fairy Mage of Zalphir, yep. Two mana, three or two hellless, three blue pips, basically the planeswalker, but creature we could also have flash. It's it's goaded for any deck that could win solely off of the creatures being the flash speed like did with Rasios. if I have that out and I have the card.
Sam Valley: Yep, to Fairy Major's Alphier, yep. Two mana, three or two colorless, three blue pips, basically the planeswalker, but creatures you control also have flash. It's good it's goaded for any deck that can win solely off of creatures being at flash speed like Tidnothracios. if I have that out and I have the cards that my deck in my hand that win the game, I can just cast them all of them. It doesn't matter what they are. So yeah.
Sean: Just win. Yeah. Crush them. Cool. All right, so we've we've crushed the tops the Swiss rounds. We're into top sixteen. You beautiful dude. On the play against w you're seeing Walker again, McFadden made top sixteen and chance. So hey man, talk about Crick, but he's there. And then th was this the game you were talking about with Tyam?
Sam Valley: Yeah. So yeah, Michael on Titan. really, really good Time pilot. He knew ex he knew what he was
Sean: Excellent.
Sam Valley: doing. it was tough. this is what this is the only game that I really missed Gilded Drake. like just to have, because that one Gilded Drake would have stopped him from being a problem. Now it's kind of like a double-edged sword or like monkey paw there, where if I completely shut off time, I probably don't win that game because then I have no one to point at.
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: And say, hey, don't look at me, brother. He like 12 creatures and 15 mana. We gotta kill time again. so definitely, yeah, my I think Walker mold
Sean: Yep, so definitely yeah, my I think Walker
Sam Valley: low. I think he was on four or five and just had a thracius game plan that was kind of slower. chance wasn't really ever in the game. He just I think he also mulled low, but didn't did not draw what he needed.
Sean: game plan was kind of slower. chance wasn't really ever in the game. He just he also pulled low and did not draw what he
Sam Valley: I think he was banking on a tutor, which obviously Crick runs like 17 of, but he didn't he didn't get it.
Sean: Which obviously Craig runs like 17 of he didn't get it.
Sam Valley: So he was just kind of sitting there with reanimation spells. He helped not lose by reanimating a ranger captain of flash speed, which is so sick. Every time I see Crick, they do something crazy. It's like that I don't expect them. Like I obviously expect them to just win, but I never expect them to word of Command of Fierce or Necromancy Instance to get a Ranger Captain and Kraken. Like it's in it's insane. it was a really good game though. for sure. I had to do a lot of politicking to not lose the time for sure. I think I had degree to not win two
Sean: So he was just kind of sitting there with reanimation spells. He helped not lose by reanimating Ranger Captain of Flash Beam, which is so sick. Every time I see Craig they use something greatly hits like that I don't expect them. Like I obviously expected to lose win. But I never expected to ward of Command of Fierce or Necromancy to be a Ranger Captain Bracken. I guess in instance.
Sam Valley: turns in a row. It was a crazy game.
Sean: turns in a row, he knows a great game. my gosh. And you're all playing interesting decks, so just to kind of give the makeup of this, it's you on T TNT, Walker was on, Rog Thrash, you had time in C3 and then chance on rock on excuse me, Krek in C4. So it's three creature decks and then a turbo black mono black deck. yeah man he must just like high roll at least two games every Swiss like every tournament to get into these top 16 because he's always in the top 16 dude. Yeah that's why like that's why like you see Italian
Sam Valley: I mean yeah, that's why like that's why like you see itallies in top sixteen too. Like they just like cast Itali, three shooters, cool, next game. Like it, you know, sometimes they just get it.
Sean: They just like gas it all, like three tutors, ooh, nice game. Yeah. You know, sometimes they just get it. Yep, yeah. And in the and and then in the top sixteen you gotta have those stars aligned or else you're you're cooked. All right. Let's talk about the main event because I sat there and watched this game for I don't know how long you guys played, two and a half hours, like you ended Dude,
Sam Valley: Two hours and nineteen minutes.
Sean: you ended like with ten minutes left, max.
Sam Valley: Yeah, 10 minutes before time was called, we ended.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: that was a wild game. I mold to six, kept a hand that was
Sean: kept a hand but
Sam Valley: Tataru Taru. and a finale of Devastation.
Sean: Hmm.
Sam Valley: basically. Unlucky on the hand for sure. I was able to play, I think Kyle
Sean: the other hand for sure. I was able to play, I think, Kyle.
Sam Valley: went turn one, Rog Rack, Mox Amber, Manivolt, hit missed his land drop. I went turn one land pass. Andy went turn one fish,
Sean: Fish.
Sam Valley: Craig went turn one Magus of the Candelabra. Kyle untaps, plays the backside of Burgie, and is like, guys, I should try to find a land. And he discards a card and hits LED thrystic. And we're like, Of course. So we have to do about
Sean: Kyle untaps, plays the backside of Bergie, and is like guys I should try to find a land and he discards a card, hits Elini thrustic like
Sam Valley: probably 10 minutes, 10 to 15 minutes of talking to get him to get him to not cast windfall or rystic. Like. Because either one of them won win the game. And we were like, no, bro, we'll
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: stop. Like, we will ha we will counter these spells. So he ends up on turn two getting a Tether at the s Tether at Pool Captain and play. Tutors and Artifact casts it. Andy's getting cards. I'm getting treasures. I'd rather have cards. no, I'm I'm not getting treasures yet. I didn't play Tataro. This is on turn two. Andy's getting cards.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: I'm getting nothing. Kinda mad about that.
Sean: No.
Sam Valley: or I was anyway. and then I'd untap, played Tatarataru passed. I was able to hold up misdirection and I think I wasn't able to hold up dispel, but I had dispel, misdirection, blue card in hand. so I was able to contribute a little bit. Andy just paid for Pish for Fish, Craig misses Land Drop pass. Craig was kind of out of the game until Kyle
Sean: And you just paid for pitch for fish, Craig missed his land drop pass. Craig was kind of out of the game until
Sam Valley: after Kyle was dead. Kyle on his turn three almost won the game several times. Like
Sean: on his turn three almost won the game several times like it was a long
Sam Valley: It was a long turn. It was a wild turn. he tried to res he resolved a a hexing squelcher and breach. He like it was yeah, it was he resolved the necro also. Like we were totally cooked unless we both had very specific answers. and then I untapped.
Sean: Well yeah, just to talk about that for one second. He he man, he had it I and he knew he had it after the game. he just kind of I knowing you had a dispel and a misdirection is good information because I was wondering 'cause he had like Born and he could have just resolved it main phase, I believe, I believe, and then
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: just gone right into Necro and like had Born. You know what mean? But
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, I mean I I saw a line. I know that we were talking about it in the car on the way home.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: me, me and me and the guys I drove up with, Logan and Brandon, awesome dudes. I'll shout them out real fast. and
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: like Logan saw the line. Like it was yeah, I think he casts the cabal ritual earlier, so he has threshold and he casts Born during main phase, goes to end pays life in a necro, goes to end step, and then
Sean: Life in the necro goes to N step and then
Sam Valley: Has Born and Breach online because you sack the triggers correctly and you have Breach and all the card and all the cards
Sean: And backside burghee.
Sam Valley: and backside birdie, he gets there for sure, I think. he's still able
Sean: Yeah, it was interesting, man. Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: to send it the next turn too, which this is that's the turn we killed him because I had bow masters in place. So I was able to untap finale for bow masters and just start threatening his life total. I killed Rograk, killed the Hex Velcher, just brought his life total to zero by Andy drawing cards. And it took a miracle after that. Kyle just kept Kyle kept sending and I was like, brother, I'm gonna keep sending the mirror way
Sean: And it took a miracle after that. just kept Kyle kept sending and I was like, brother, I'm gonna keep sending them your way.
Sam Valley: until you stop casting spells and he didn't. which is the that is the third time that I have killed Kyle Shaft with Bow Masters in a final game.
Sean: spells at Eden. which is the that is the third time that I have killed Kyle Shaft with Bow Master Jesus Christ. dude
Sam Valley: I have brought his life to zero in the top cut game three times with Bowmasters. one of them
Sean: Actually it's kinda nice.
Sam Valley: was manual two of them have been manual pings. my first ever tournament win, or no, my my third tournament win ever, but first at Better Plays way back when. he was at 40 and I was
Sean: And I was
Sam Valley: and I cast the Bowmasters, and then he resolved the silence, and with him casting spells and us untapping one rings. We brought him from forty to zero with one bow masters.
Sean: That's brutal.
Sam Valley: Yeah, that was a wild game too. but back to this one. Kyle Kyle died.
Sean: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Sam Valley: I think he had another chance to win, but he was too low on life. and then at that point I was able to I think I drew into just more mana. I just had more mana at that point. I was able to resolve Timna. I was able I was able to swing with the Bowmasters and the Army. I was able to get a couple cards. I was able to draw like just a just a couple more cloned a fish. I think I cloned Andy's fish. Yep. And I was able to draw a couple more cards,
Sean: couple more to clone the fish. I think I have to clone the fish. You did, yep. Yep. And I to draw a couple more cards.
Sam Valley: and then Andy had to on Kyle's turn discard his entire hand to LED to activate Gleaming Splendor to deal the final point of damage to Kyle, which was a blessing for me. Because Andy didn't have Vamp Tutor in his hand at that point, which was
Sean: Andy didn't have bang too. Also duly noted this Magus put in a bunch of work in this game because the first
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: turn that Kyle pushed, Craig untapped, I believe, a land on
Sam Valley: Andy's.
Sean: Andy's board so that Andy could interact. And then the second time that happened, I believe it happened again, right?
Sam Valley: You know, he untapped either untapped either untapped for my dispel or untapped for Andy's another a piece of Andy's interaction. Yeah, no he yeah,
Sean: Yeah. yeah, no you
Sam Valley: it was super critical. Like the Magus put in so much work on us on not on letting us not lose. Yeah.
Sean: And and just to put a point on that, the one thing I would like to call out because I was spectating this whole game was Craig missed a land drop, I think, four turns in a row. And then like people will not do not interact in those situations because they're like, I'm out of the game. I can't do anything. Craig, being the pro that he is, was like, All right, I'm gonna do this, but he made deals that you wouldn't swing at him with Bow Master, and that Andy wouldn't wait a turn to enter to push. Like those things happened, and because of that, you end up having to interact with Craig a lot because he pushes a win. Basically. Like or he gets to the point where he can push a win. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Well he gets he gets handed two wish claws. Like because of his agreement agreance in the game
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: to provide help and not just sit there F sixed like so many people do. Like no hate to anyone that I'm about
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: to mention, but I watched a top si I watched like a top either it was either a stream game or a top game at Misplay. And it was like Jorman, Andy, Evan, Freedom Waffle, someone else. And like and I think that like
Sean: I remember this game. Yeah.
Sam Valley: I forget who it was, but someone like
Sean: someone like
Sam Valley: wasn't able
Sean: wasn't able
Sam Valley: to win, but they had like t fifteen mana on board and twenty five cards in hand, but they weren't able to win, so they just stopped helping. They just stopped playing the game. And it was kind of like,
Sean: And it was kind of like
Sam Valley: I mean, brother, you like you don't know that. Like anything could happen. Like help, cast the spells, do the stuff. Like, I don't know. I just don't agree with that mentality of just like sitting there doing nothing because you like think you don't have a shot. And
Sean: Spells do the stuff, know. I just don't agree with like sitting there because like think you want to shine. I think most good players don't agree with that mentality, and I I went and played some practice games recently. I'm not gonna say when 'cause I don't wanna give away the people that I played against, but people just gave up so easily in the game, and I'm like, just the mentality of that just doesn't make sense to me. And I think that is a huge difference between somebody who can make top cuts and do well is just the mentality of I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna Pay attention the entire time. I'm going to participate in the game. I'm going to make deals that help me get back in the game, despite not having a hand or mana or missing land drops. Like I think good players will always feel like they're they're still in it and play to those outs, even if it's 1%, dude. Because that one time it's 1%, that's like the best win you can possibly have. When you like save the day like Craig and then all of a sudden you're you have to sword Zan and then bounce it and then kill his board with Bummasters because I'm in it now, man. Like, you know, it takes
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah.
Sean: four or five more turns for you guys to win. All right, I'm gonna toss my creatures on the board now that we're back in the game. Kyle's debt, right?
Sam Valley: Like I kid you not, he was gifted a fish and he had a tutor that got cradle. And from that he was able to be threatening enough to where I had to stop pointing Bow Masters at Andy's face and kill all of his creatures. Like multiple times. It was
Sean: and kill all of his creatures. Yep. Like multiple times.
Sam Valley: insane. Like he was he would he went from literally having forest magus to like fifteen creatures forty mana. Like it was it was wild.
Sean: To like fifteen creatures. You bounced a seedborne one turn and he had to he replayed it.
Sam Valley: I I subtlety to seed born. I had to pitch my kin in. I would have won the game so much faster if I had that kin in. I had to pitch my kin in to s to subtlety to stop it from having a seed born muse. I had to kill like twelve creatures with OBM. Like I had to I had to basically just
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: put six feet under or else I was gonna lose. And Andy couldn't do anything about it 'cause he was Nick Fury. Nick Fury can't stop Keysan if it's trying to win.
Sean: Yeah. Nope.
Sam Valley: It just wins faster. Like it's yeah.
Sean: Yeah, so not only did you have to control Kyle in the early game, in the mid-game, because I mean the man was just pushing like a like a witch, then you go over and Craig's starting to push. Andy, by the way, this whole time has a fish out and has just drawing cards. So let's talk about like the end of this game because I think that's we we gotta did a good job of like developing into the end state. So I pretty much passed dealing with Craig, and then you basically tamp Craig down to the point where he can't present wins anymore. Now it becomes basically a one v one, right? Between you and Mr. Beach.
Sam Valley: Yeah, now it's 1v1 versus me and Andy. and Andy is
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: Andy had to discard his hand, but he had fish. So he was able to build up a couple cards. one of them was a was a tutor for savines. Or no, it was a Praetor's Grass for my tutor for Savines. and he cast I had a fish out of this point.
Sean: Yep. and he cast a bite of fish out of the
Sam Valley: he casts the Savines. I have to pact it. He cast because which misplay on my part. I should have packed the tutor.
Sean: Misplay on my part. I should have packed to the tutor.
Sam Valley: Because I was like I didn't I didn't it was where it was like an hour and a half into the game and I was like I didn't clock that he has eight mana for us in the Spreach in his yard for Savines cast it again. So
Sean: Because I was like I didn't I didn't it was que it was and a half in the game and I like I didn't clock that he has eight mana. And a breach in his yard at this point. Yep.
Sam Valley: I have to pack the original Sabines, which is something that I missed. I should have packed with a tutor, it would have been fine. Well I still was, we'll get into that. and I have a fish, and then he flashes it back. I have like no con I have a Mox Diamond,
Sean: Yeah, yeah, man. and I have a fish, and then he flashes it back. I have like no com I have a mock
Sam Valley: a land, and a cabbage version of. he flashes it back, one fist draw off the top, mind break trap.
Sean: He flashes it back, one fist draw off the top, might break.
Sam Valley: I just fucking mind break trap the sorry cursing. I freaking mind break trap
Sean: you get.
Sam Valley: the the the flashback savines and the look on his face was like yeah. and then he just pee pee passes. and then he I think Craig develops more and I have to point more stuff at Craig. and then no Andy has
Sean: No Andy.
Sam Valley: to activate Gleaming Splendor. Because he lost his fish to stop Craig
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: just from drawing cards with Bow Masters. and then I untapped, I developed more. I think I pushed for a win here, which better do it Swift. because I actually drew into the cards, let it happen 'cause with my with Timna, with just Timna, really. The fish drew me like four cards. Timna drew me like fifth Tim Timna drew me like twelve over the course of the game. because the deal that I made earlier on when I was stopping Kyle was okay, I'll do this, but no one can block my creatures for the rest of the game.
Sean: Yeah, it was basically no orc army at any one, but y'all y'all gotta let the orc the orcish bow master and the timda through, each of you. Yeah, the entire game was on three cards a
Sam Valley: Yep. Yeah, the entire game I was drawing three cards a turn. The rest of the game.
Sean: turn.
Sam Valley: No one was getting a Bow Master army song with them. So I was able to go devoted Druid Swift and I thought Andy was out. He had the two cards in his hand. He goes, Miss Step, and I'm like, my god. Alright. my god, dude.
Sean: And goes, I step and I'm like, No dude, listen, he top decked that. my god. Dude, I literally I was so by the way, y you're talking about this. I'm standing behind both of you watching you draw your cards. You top deck the MBT. I'm like, my god, I don't know how the man did that. Then you put the Swift recon and he goes, Cool fish, and you were like, Yep, and he draws, he goes, Hmm, mind break trap. And I'm just like, what is happening right now? Like
Sam Valley: yeah. And so I was like, Are you kidding me? Yeah, whatever, pass. and I have four mana up after that. Just four. That's it. I like, yeah, I have I have four mana in a dream. Andy top deck, something else that lets him go and goes and gets Thoracle Decon and he goes for Thoracle. And then off of the and then he cast decon. I'm like, shit, I better activate Thracios, fierce off the top. Like hail may Hail Mary, like you can't replicate that ever.
Sean: Dude, off the top! I'm like Hail Mary, like you know,
Sam Valley: Like I was like, Jesus Christ, I don't deserve this. Yeah, no, it was
Sean: Dude, the clouds parted and God came down and was like, Here's a fierce guardianship, brother. I got you. Yeah.
Sam Valley: insane. Like, just like just activate. fierce. Like, my god. so everyone blew up around us. Like, there were like 20 people watching the game. It was insane.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: great moment. And then Andy's Andy again is just like, yeah, I guess. Whatever, dude.
Sean: Poor Andy's like, really? Like what the hell? dude.
Sam Valley: and then Craig has another turn. At this point, I think he's like really not able to win, I think at this
Sean: He was pretty much out. Yeah.
Sam Valley: point. Like he's kinda out of it now, because I've killed I think I killed his Magus of the Candelabra and his commander again, so we can't possibly recast it.
Sean: Yep. That was a pro move for you too, because I'm pretty sure the whole time you and Andy are interacting, you're sending the Bowmaster pings from Andy's draws over at the Yeson board. I'm pretty sure. I
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: think some of them you were sending at Andy's face, but it like and you got him down to like four life, I'm pretty sure by the end of this thing. Yeah. Four.
Sam Valley: It was it was four. I got him on to four. He activated Death Ray Shaman at some point to go back to six. I activated to put him down back to four and then I was actually able to this is probably one of the reasons I won is that I was actually able to kill him before I actually won the game. with bow with the Bowmaster pings. 'Cause he was trying to find cards with Leaming Splender to stop both
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: to stop me and Greg. And I was able to like swing three at him and then just knock him out with one ping. which super lucky. I think lucky there, but
Sean: Yeah, and then by the way, right before you say the end, basically but while all of this is happening, like we're almost doing this in real time, the clock is ticking because this is a timed finals, and if you guys basically time out, which at this point you're you're killing Andy, you have about ten minutes left in the game.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: if you don't win, even though we're in the finals, the decision of the day was Kyle would win the whole tournament. Which Kyle's just sitting there
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: like, huh, interesting, you know, just kinda like biting his time.
Sam Valley: The guy who was dead is going to win if no one wins. So we're like, we gotta like play faster and actually get this thing over with. so someone wins the game. And I think Craig doesn't really have a turn. He kinda tries to build back up but isn't able to push. he r he does resolve Seaborne music in, but it's pointless. I think at that point he holds up Arch George Charm, which does stop me for a turn. So I go I go I have an attempt, but he's like, brother, I'll stop you. Like
Sean: Stop you.
Sam Valley: you can't go for it. And I was like Sure, yeah, I guess. So I have to think about it. And I have to get my buy myself another
Sean: Yeah I guess so I have think about it.
Sam Valley: turn. So I tutor Oppo to the field. I do some other stuff. I get Ranger Captain on board. and then Andy has a turn where he can present again, but it's like two mana short. Like he like Praetor's grasps for for my bounce spell for his wish claw to recast wish claw to get Thossa to get no to rebounce his wish claw to get chain of vapor to bounce his Thossa and then his Wish Claw again, and he's like two mana short. so he has to pass. And then Craig does something.
Sean: And then Andy has a turn where he can present again, but it's like two mana short. Like he like crater's grass for for my bounce spell for his wish claw to recast wish claw to get Thasa to get note to rebounce his wish claw to get Jade of April to bounce his Thasa and then his wish claw again and he's like two mana short. so we ask the pass. And then Craig does something. when I flash an onbook he uses his arch church charm to go search, which is the second to last thing stopping you from Devoto jury.
Sam Valley: and I flash an Oppo, he uses his Archduridge charm to go search, which is the second to last thing that's stopping me from Devoto Drewing Hazels,
Sean: Hazels because that's my only line left of the drawing tossing on. Mm-hmm. And and the last thing on board, which is not gonna be is Andy's death right shot.
Sam Valley: because that's my only line left other than drawing Thosset Con. And then the last thing on board, which is stopping me, is Andy's Death Right Shaman. which is a Mockingbird copy of I think. Or maybe it's just his. And so I go to my turn and I swing Timna at Andy, just Timna.
Sean: And so I go to my turn and I swing Timna at Andy, just Timna.
Sam Valley: And then I swing the Bowmasters at Craig to draw two cards. And Andy blocks with his Death Right Shaman. And just like, no, you're not drawing another card. I'm gonna block now.
Sean: And then I swing the Bowmaster that Craig draws two cards, and Andy blocks with his death right chum. And just like, No, you're not drawing another card, I'm gonna block now.
Sam Valley: And I was like, sure. the card that I drew off of Timna or for turn was I think Cord and off of Timna, I drew Nature's Rhythm. So I was able so like because but the only line that I could get with those two cards was Hazel's Brewmaster, which needed devoted druid in the graveyard. Well, Death Right Shaman stops that.
Sean: Timna, but for turn was I think Horde and off of Timna I drew Major for them. So I was able to like be c but the only line that I could get those two cards was Hazel's Promaster, which needed to go to Drew to the Graveyard, or Death Right Shaman stops that.
Sam Valley: So he literally had to block there. Like he had to make the decision to block for me to win the game. And it's just like the stars literally aligned,
Sean: So he literally had the block. Like he had to make the decision to block for me to win the game. Wow. I did not know that.
Sam Valley: dude. Like I was hoping he
Sean: I thought he was just blocking to save his life. I didn't know it was just d denying you card draw. I thought he was trying to like eke out some life.
Sam Valley: It was probably both, but like he was like he blocked at that point. Maybe he was trying to save his own life. I don't know what the reasoning behind it on his end was, but it it was the last thing that led me with the game.
Sean: That's crazy, man.
Sam Valley: so I was able to I was able to resolve the cord and no one had responses. And it was like holy finally. It's like midnight at that point. We've
Sean: Yeah, right? You're like Duh I you just like you were like you know just midnight at that point.
Sam Valley: been I've been on the road since like eight AM. Like it it's it was yeah.
Sean: And that's the dream, man. Like literally that right there, that game with everybody around it, you know, and like ending there, like, what an excellent game. It didn't end in time. You guys fought to the bitter end. It was like kill one player, kill the other player, kill the third player, you know, stop the third player from winning and then close it out. Like that was perfect magic. And the fact that we had a crowd there was just made it like that much more special. So
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: kudos, brother. Kudos. Like by the way, we did not plan that. Like I told you two weeks before that you were just gonna come on the podcast and you like, I'm gonna make this, you know, we're gonna give some content for the for the pod for
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean yeah, ten ten six, you said no.
Sean: It was earlier than that. Nine eighteen said Joe Point podcast. Yeah. one day. Yeah. And you were like, yeah, let me just win
Sam Valley: Nine eighteen you said, Yo, come on the podcast and then yeah, like literally like a month ago. Yeah, crazy timing.
Sean: real quick the week before I come on. All right. Well, we we missed something. We didn't go over the list. So we talked about your TNT list. We talked about the tournament run, the supremacy, the crush. Let's talk about your Timoth Rassius list. So I'm gonna pull it up. actually it's already over here. Perfect. there's some choice cards.
Sam Valley: Sure. There's some choice cards. Don't don't judge me.
Sean: Hey man, you know, I love this. I love this part because you get to take a look and go, Jace, huh? That's a new card. Why are we playing Jace? Jace is
Sam Valley: Yep. Yep. Jace is I don't know how I judge it right now. I think it's good. I think it's a really good magic card. however, how useful it is into the various stages of the game is definitely
Sean: I think it's good. I think it's a really good magic card. however, how useful it is into the various stages of the team is definitely.
Sam Valley: up for discussion. obviously at instant speed it's terrible. Like it sucks. basically if the game's at instant speed on the last turn and it's not your turn,
Sean: Basically, instant speed is terrible. Like it sucks. Yep. basically if the geeks at instant speed on the last turn is not your
Sam Valley: it's a pitch to force, and that is the extent of the usefulness of card.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: However, on turn two, when
Sean: however on turn two
Sam Valley: everyone has one creature on the on board and they tapped out for all those three creatures, and you have land soul ring, you play another land, this card is busted. You play that, you bounce like Rog Thras's Thracios, Sise's Sise, and then a Lotho from Blue Farm, and it's like all three of those players now have to basically dedicate a turn to casting those spells again if they don't have better cards.
Sean: Land Solver, you play another land, this card is busted. You play that, you bounce like Rog Thrace's Thracios, Sise, Sisei, and then a Lotho from Blue Farm, and it's like all three of those players now have to basically dedicate a turn to casting those spells again if they don't have better cards.
Sam Valley: and that is a huge that is probably the biggest tempo play you can make in CDH, I think. Other than like Toxic Dailusion. For each opponent, bounce an
Sean: that is probably the biggest tempo can make in Z, I think. Dude, look at I didn't even realize it says for each opponent. I thought it was a single bouncing
Sam Valley: artifact or or creature that player controls. So, like, even if it dies immediately, it's still
Sean: that's so good. Like even if it dies immediately it's
Sam Valley: four mana, draw a card, bounce three things. in the in if it's its sorcery speed in its late game, it serves as bouncing multiple stacks pieces for multiple
Sean: Yep. Yep. In the in if it's its sorcery speed in its late game, it serves as bouncing multiple stacks pieces for multiple
Sam Valley: people. and then Winning. Like I was able to bounce an Oppo in top sixteen where he only had green mana to re to not recast it. And then Elders Evolution for Bow Masters to start trying to ping his board down. like it it it came in clutch several games.
Sean: Bro. That's awesome. Like it it it came and clutched several games.
Sam Valley: I think it's good. I don't know what deck should run it. I don't know if it's going to stay good, but if it sits around, it just starts. It's like every like two turns around the around the block has drawn six cards. Like
Sean: Yeah, I was gonna say, like look at this thing. It's got everything that TNT wants. It has card draw right there at the top, which is an insane rate for card draw. So it's basically you're it's almost like under the radar too, because people are like, four mana Jace? Sure, it can resolve, you know, but then you don't realize
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: it's bodies for Timna, tempo for all the creature decks, and then at the bottom it's literally let's buff all of my Timnah attackers, you know?
Sam Valley: Well yeah, it makes one ones for Timon Attackers and for Cradle. Like it's it's it's just a good card. I would
Sean: Postering.
Sam Valley: recommend I would recommend that everyone who was like, I should I should might test that out. Yeah, do it. Test it out. See if you like it. Because I have not hated it.
Sean: Yeah, and I feel like it even like if you're trying to do a T and T plan, which is very mid range control value creature plan, right? Most of the time. Sometimes they do the no bag cards version, but I think this is definitely more of the the the the shell you would put this in. It's excellent basically turns one, two, even maybe three if the ge if you can get the game to extend, like this card's great.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I mean I've even made deals with people, like they let it resolve if I bounce something that they also want gone and then I let them swing at it. Like like, hey, yeah, I replace the card, I get rid of three things, and I like and it's just like yeah. Like I've yeah, I w
Sean: Excellent. Like like hey, yeah, I replace the cart, I get rid of three things, and I like then it's just like yeah. Like a yeah
Sam Valley: I might waste a turn doing it, but that's not a waste to me. Like, you know, yeah, I think it's good. if it if it sits around, you win the game unless someone gases.
Sean: Yeah, I th I think it's a tempo piece, I love it.
Sam Valley: Like it's it's just yeah. Yeah.
Sean: Yeah, it's a guaranteed rhystic study, right? okay. What thou tip. Yeah, credited to Jake Ballingy.
Sam Valley: Yeah, credits to Jake Ballingy. he was like, Yo, play Fibble Tip and I was like, I got you. no, it actually it did win
Sean: Yeah. no it actually it did win.
Sam Valley: a game won my one my round two, where Thasa Decon might not have. So I think it's I think it's definitely
Sean: I think it's definitely
Sam Valley: like one point seven Thossas or no, or like another like point seven of a Thasa's Oracle. Like I think it's
Sean: Yeah, right. That's a good way to describe it, because basically like sometimes with these lists, if you get stalled, right, and you could speak to this way better than I can, but sometimes TNT has trouble closing out the game because you're looking for specific creature pieces. So just having another Thassa in the list can just be super helpful because you're you have you're chocked full of creature tutors, right? Yeah. And this one is repeatable, which is cool. It's but it's not it's it does shuffle matter when. you do it does shuffle in at the end, yeah, that's It is a it is a two-man.
Sam Valley: Yeah. The only reason I would yeah. It's well it's not it's it does shuffle back in no matter what. like it it is a it is a two mana draw two cards if you don't have Thoracle decon in your hand.
Sean: Yeah, yeah.
Sam Valley: or if you don't have decon tan-packed in your hand. But even then, I mean, you know, if you mold low and you want to keep land fibble thip, like it's better than casting Trassios. So
Sean: Right. Right.
Sam Valley: I think it's not bearable. It the one thing that I do say about it,
Sean: About it.
Sam Valley: I said this to other people in Discords before. The Timoth Ratios has a mana problem. the deck does not generate enough mana to cast the things in the deck. That is the thing that it struggles with the most. This is not a card that is that makes me that helps that. so that is the only reason why I would that why I would consider cutting it. but you know, it's it's
Sean: the thing that it struggles with the most. This is not a card that is that makes it that helps that. so that is the only reason why I would that why I would consider cutting it. but, you know, it's
Sam Valley: cool, it's fibble fib. It it's like you play that, everyone's like, yo, what? That's the one of the that's what I love about magic. Like, you know, you when you sit down at a at a C D H tournament and someone plays like word of command, for example, like it's just like that's such a cool moment. And I don't wanna take that.
Sean: sit down at a at a CEH tournament and someone plays like word of command, for example. Like it's just like that's such a cool moment. What's this? It's like, don't worry about it, it's gonna counter that guy's rhystic study. And you're like, okay. Whatever, dude.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah. Let me read this card. I still don't know what it does. All right.
Sean: Alright, well, pass. yeah, that's interesting. But I think you can fix that kind of problem, the mana problem with good good brewing, right? Like as long as you have
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: other cards that make up for that deficit, you can play a card like Bibble Tip and just it's a balancing act of like this is my win con piece and a little bit of card draw and I have my mana over here. I have Kinn and I have Lotho, you know what I mean, all those other pieces. Yeah, I don't know.
Sam Valley: Yeah, and that's one of the things that I will say about Timna Thracios is that if you're trying to mulligan the deck and it's not like, you know, the gas obviously or something. If you have a game plan to get to like a turn two mana engine, that's good enough. like most of the time, I think. Like if you can get out to Tarutaru
Sean: Yeah. Like you can get out to target.
Sam Valley: or Lotho, or like just even like having two lands
Sean: Doesn't even like having two lands.
Sam Valley: and a dork to play Timna turn two. Like it's like having the mana aside from the card draw is the most important. need like cabbage merchant i'll keep hand with cabbage merchant all day every day just because the deck needs so much hand
Sean: So really because your commanders facilitate the card draw so well, the mana is more important in the opening hand. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. King T'Challa, how's that felt? Great, first but you play it
Sam Valley: Great, cards busted. you play it and then you draw nine cards and you don't even know how you drew nine cards. It's like yeah, not I don't think I could say anything more about that. if you're not drawing cards with it, you can beat someone's face with it. I guess that's cool. You can flip it. I've done it once. Just six damage a turn. Yeah.
Sean: shit. That's pretty good. What do you think about him as a commander? Let's do a little sidebar.
Sam Valley: Ooh, has the Azorius problem where it can't win the game.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Doesn't matter how hard you try, you cannot win the game. I have so
Sean: You draw so many cards and then you just look at I have so
Sam Valley: one of my buddies Pete he plays at me with warp gates and or at locals and on like weekdays and stuff. He play he he has it built. I think that I've seen him
Sean: They need he has it built. I think that I
Sam Valley: draw more cards than anyone needs in their entire life. I don't think he's ever won a game on it. Like that's kinda like no, it's not that's not like he's a great player. he plays Tivot mostly, and that's his main deck, but he's a great player. And this deck just it just can't win the game. Like it doesn't have the win cons in the deck. It has it has enough cards to stop everybody. It's like Rog Shy without breach, right? Yeah. Or Rog Roggy Shy without breach. Like it's it will draw the entire deck, then you can't win the game.
Sean: Sorry Pete. That's kinda like no, it's a great player. Yeah. he plays Tivot mostly on that's his main deck, but he's a great player. And this deck just it just can't win the game. It doesn't have the win con that it's has it has enough cards to stop everybody. It's like rock shy without breach. Yeah. my god. Yep. I feel like that's another one of
Sam Valley: Yep.
Sean: those high skill ceiling decks where people can pick this up and win, but they need to be doing ten D chess where everybody else is like, breach and you're like, Son of I want that. You know what I mean?
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah. Like blue form untaps and goes demonic tutor and then you're dead. That's how it is.
Sean: Exactly. It's so easy. Exactly. Oppo I think is an excellent card to be playing in the meta right now. Everybody's tutoring, especially creature tutors. It's crazy. If you drop an Oppo, you just bought yourself a turn and a half. Easy.
Sam Valley: yeah, like all of the counter spells stop all the decks that are good. And then opposition agent stops all the decks that aren't good. Like it also stops the decks that are good, to be fair.
Sean: That's a great way to describe it. You're like, well what about all these creature decks?
Sam Valley: Like Rogue Sai runs like twelve tutors, but yeah,
Sean: Yeah. yeah.
Sam Valley: no, like you wanna like opposition agent is an all-star. I cut scheming symmetry for fibblefip.
Sean: Okay.
Sam Valley: that was one of the choices I made, but like a backup win con in the list, if your deck gets milled or something, Appo scheming. You just target two other people, grab their Thosset Con, you just win. Like it's it's it's real good. I would I'm high on Appo right now. I've loved it.
Sean: scheming you just target two other people grab their thoughts to them and just win right there. It's it's real good. I would I'm high on upboard right loved it. That's awesome dude. Yeah okay let's keep jamming here. Hazel's with devoted druid. we don't have to say too much there. Subtlety and Teferi those could be cards that we could talk about because Subtlety I think is a great meta call as well, just like opposition agent. You wouldn't always run a subtlety, right? But in the meta where there's so many damn creatures, it's like just so good to be able to say nope. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, people ask me how subtlety feels. It's always fine. It's always just the answer's fine. It's like you don't
Sean: feels it's always fine. It's always just the answer's fine.
Sam Valley: want to run the card, don't. It's like but I've liked it. It it can make a temporary creature
Sean: It it can make a temporary creature
Sam Valley: if you need one man one one more mana with cradle. Like it's there's use cases for it. There's n like it's kind of like the mind break trap thing also where index like kinnen,
Sean: There's like it's kind of like the mind break trap thing also where indexed pin in
Sam Valley: you can start a hole breaker loop by just casting it. You don't need a target
Sean: Yeah, you don't need a target.
Sam Valley: if mindbreak trap is online. You can just cast mindbreak trap.
Sean: Yep. Does this have the same thing it doesn't need? Yeah, you choose up to one target, so you do not need a target.
Sam Valley: same same thing with Settle 2. Well, like it just it's also just an E T B trigger. You can just cast the spell and then it does nothing when it enters if there's no spell in stack. so
Sean: Yep, yep. And and I think the other part about subtlety that I I'd like to point out is the fact that there's so many silence creatures now. Grand Abolisher, Voice of Victory. I consider Samut and Hexing Squelcher some of those cards. Jennifer Walters,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: dude, there's so many and it with those on the stack, if you don't have a force of will, I'm just gonna subtlety. You can put on the bottom, you know. Yeah. I mean it
Sam Valley: Yeah, I mean it has been like two months since I've seen an uncounterable
Sean: Since I've seen an uncount
Sam Valley: Grand Abolish or Resolve. And they're and they've been cast weekly. Like it's just like subtlety, like those answer those protection pieces are good, but they're not good enough anymore, in my opinion. That's why I don't run any of the two mana silent creatures, is that they don't ever win me the game. They just don't. Yeah, I don't run voice, no GA, no Jennifer Walters.
Sean: It's just like subtlety, like those answers, those protection pieces are good, but they're not good enough anymore in my opinion. That's why I don't run any of the two mana sounds like that. Dude, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, I don't run voice, no GA, no turn for Walters. Wow. Like it's just Ranger Captain's very
Sam Valley: Nothing to do. I don't even like it's just Ranger Captain to Ferry.
Sean: Okay, so the reason is they're not good enough in this shell, right? In in this shell, yeah. if you you can
Sam Valley: In in this shell, yeah. if you you can run them. I just don't like playing them. and if you did run them, I would also run neoform. I cut neoform for Teferi. Or not Teferi, Jace. because usually I've just
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: pitched Neoform to Force of Will and I can do the same thing to Jace and Jace is
Sean: Yep. Yep. No, that makes total sense, dude. And I I love that. I basically to me that seems like you're you're opting out of the threatening early win because a lot of times with a list like this, you're like trying to progress into your win overwhelming advantage. You're not trying to voice win, right? That's just not something that this deck does really well. So y and you I Yeah, go ahead.
Sam Valley: Yeah. It it can't yeah, it can't make the mana. Like earlier when I said the mana problem, you you generally can't make the mana to then to go voice win early. Like you can go
Sean: You you generally can't make the mana to then to go waste of hand room. Like you can go
Sam Valley: voice pass and then win, but then that leaves Kenon cloning it and then winning. Like it's just you know or someone draking it and then you don't have one anymore. Like where it just gets removed because it's scary. Like it's just they're lightning bolts. I don't like playing lightning bolts.
Sean: It's just, you know, or someone drinking it and then you don't have one anymore. Like anywhere it just gets removed because it's scary. Like it's just they're lightning ones. I don't like playing lightning bolts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then what's the decision for
Sam Valley: yeah.
Sean: Teferi Man? I I'm actually like, is it because of the flash? Yep. It's because Lane.
Sam Valley: Yep. it's because late game it does two it does two things that other effects don't. it enables you to cast
Sean: It enables you to cast.
Sam Valley: all of your wins at flash speed. Well, except for like a sorcery speed creature tutor. It doesn't it doesn't enable those, but it enables everything else.
Sean: Enable those everything else. Yeah.
Sam Valley: like Thoracle, Hazels, Devoted Druid, all of them
Sean: Hazels, devoted druid, all of them.
Sam Valley: can be cast with Teferi and play on someone else's turn. the other thing is is that it is a silence effect.
Sean: The other thing is is that it is a silence effect when it's not overturned. it is it is also a really good control piece.
Sam Valley: When it's not your turn. it is it is also a really good control piece. If you have a draw engine and no one else does, you can play a Teferi, you can pass, and then if you have three counter spells, you negate
Sean: You can play it to the very and you can pass and then if you have three counter spells you negate your
Sam Valley: your next turn. I generally don't play Teferi Pass because it's five mana, but regardless. no, it's just yeah, it it enables all of the wins whenever you want them, and it is a silence at when it's not your turn. it's also a human. I play Cavernous Holes.
Sean: no, it's just yeah, it it enables all the wins whenever you want them. And it is a silence when it's not your turn. Yep. It's also a human. I play as well. There you go. Uncounterable. Nice. Alright, let's pass the creatures here. Let's go on to the suite of sorceries. Okay, six pretty much stock. I don't think I have to talk about any of those. Nope. Pretty stock.
Sam Valley: Those are all pretty stock. I don't think I have to talk about any of those. crop rotation finds Emergent Son and Cradle. That's it. it's not a cradle deck. It can play cradle, but every time I'm like this every time I say it, it lands and I'm like, this is a better forest. It doesn't combo. And it it does help with the hate of like, hey, this guy's got cradle. So
Sean: finds emergence of cradle with it. It's not a cradle deck. It can play cradle, but every time like this every time I say it, it lands and I'm like this is a better forced. That's it. Yeah. It does help with the hate of like, hey this guy's got cradle. So
Sam Valley: I cut Veil for Machine Gods Epigee.
Sean: for G got type of G.
Sam Valley: I haven't missed Veil, I don't think.
Sean: Mm, machine gods, yeah that makes sense. Vale's just like a worse silence. It's like, come on man. You know. We don't need it in the list that has this much interaction. people if people ask me
Sam Valley: Yeah. people if people ask me no ch if people ask me why no chain of vapor, I don't run enough rocks or to to really capitalize on.
Sean: That makes sense and a lot of your mana's creature mana are lands, so you don't really need it.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: abrupt decay is a an interesting one because I it's something that I've struggled to maintain in lists that I've played. I can do it. The hell is this? Golgari.
Sam Valley: Bulgary.
Sean: Golgari, thank you. Yeah, Golgari lists. So talk to me about the inclusion of you just is it just a p like good card, no no no nothing else needs to be said, or do you have like specific targets for this?
Sam Valley: It deals with breach really well. if they've already resolved it. And you might
Sean: And you might
Sam Valley: be saying, well, if they've resolved the breach, surely you've lost. Yeah, usually. But in case they don't
Sean: Yeah, usually. But in case they don't
Sam Valley: have like a deflecting squad and mana to cast it in their graveyard, usually you can stop a breach one with this. it can stop every single creature combo in the format. It doesn't matter what it is. well, maybe not Hullrigger
Sean: Well they can stop every single creature combo in the format. well maybe not holding.
Sam Valley: Horror, obviously, but everything else. it destroys Gleaming Splendor, it destroys ki all of Kinnan's
Sean: Okay, all the
Sam Valley: valuable creatures. it is just the the can't be countered is does it does a lot of
Sean: The the can't be counter is does a lot of Yeah, and also I was gonna say like that that is really it right there, but if somebody has a breach on the stack, nine times out of ten they usually have like just counter magic like a pact that they can use to protect in your yard when the breach resolves or you know, something like that. Even if they have a D SWAT, you have to pay for the D SWAT. You can't it doesn't there's no free cast because it's alternate casting costs. So anything when someone's breaching like and they haven't
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's no free cast. Yeah, anything when someone's breaching, like and they have it resolved in their graveyard, it's like it definitely wins the game. Like you just if you don't make them use resources, you won't win you won't get through it. You still might not
Sean: Use if you don't make them use resources, you won't you won't rid of it. You still might not.
Sam Valley: because it's breach and it's a busted card.
Sean: Mm-hmm. Get out of here you it's it's it's a busted card and like you might not be able to stop them, but this is one of the cards that like it's like a besager. Typically you besage your breach, usually it works. so I don't know, I'm just I probably if I cut it, I might not miss it, but I've had such
Sam Valley: for sure. it's it's it's a busted card and like you you might not be able to stop them, but this is one of the cards that like it's like a Peseju. Like typically you besadeju a breach, usually it works. so I don't know, I've just I probably if I cut it, I might not miss it, but I've had situations where it is the silver bullet to not to not lose the game.
Sean: Yeah, and with a list like this, you need turns, you need time, this is a good interaction. Same thing with force of negation. That's one that I see some people cutting because they're like, Well, I wanna win on someone else's turn and I don't really don't this card sucks in that scenario, but or excuse me, on my turn. but you know, in a game where you're playing this mid range plan, force negation is super good, you know.
Sam Valley: Yeah. another thing about Arab Decay, there's also something to be said about then this this really applies more to 60 card magic, but it also applies to CDH as well. there's something to be said about leaving open mana. Just leave open mana. if people see that everyone's tapped out, they see a green light.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: If people see that everyone has has mana open, they're that green light becomes yellow. and that's a really important thing. It makes me play more responsibly. Because I have it in my hand. It also makes me not
Sean: It also makes me not
Sam Valley: cast the extra value engine that I might not need that throws everyone's view of me over the edge of, he's scary now. Which is another thing that with this deck you have to balance really well. Because you do not want to be the number
Sean: You do not want to be the number
Sam Valley: one threat at the table. if you don't if you don't have to be. Because otherwise people will start targeting your stuff. and abrupt decay being in my deck means that if I have it in my hand, it's really, really good. And I might not want to resolve like the tataru taru just because I can, or the extra kinan just because I can if I don't have like a tithe if I don't have a tithe out or something. Like it's it's very subtle, but I've really liked it just because of that reason.
Sean: It's it's very subtle, but I've it just because of that reason. Yeah. No, d that's so smart because people don't think about that. They like how many times have you heard somebody go, Man, I can't get past turn two? And it's like, really? Did you tap out every g every turn before
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that? You know, or like I can't get past turn four, I guess, is a better way to say that 'cause turn two is like you're just dead. But turn four would be a good example
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: of that where, maybe you're tapping out every single I do that. You know what I mean? Like I tap out way too much and it's like, well, maybe you should
Sam Valley: No like
Sean: be holding up your fluster and your silence, idiot. You know, you can survive another turn.
Sam Valley: No. Yeah. Like like I was playing against Cam Daddy D at a Little Root tournament like a year ago. He was on Negilla at this point. he was before he started playing a tally. I think it was the last game before he switched to a tally. And I lost to him immediately because I was like, he doesn't have it. So I tapped out for like something
Sean: So I tapped out for like something.
Sam Valley: and I had a fluster throw in my hand. Now granted that was a lot worse of a magic player back then. That was a really dumb mistake to make. But like, you know, you lose if you tap out and you have interaction in hand. Like you just you just
Sean: Yep. So
Sam Valley: do. So
Sean: Yeah, man. And that is definitely something that I've been watching a ton of Legacy for sure, which is I feel like is a power level comparison to CDH, but also it's one v
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: one, so it it's better at like observing the good mechanics of the game and from like a 60 player perspective of like here's how I'm gonna sequence, here's things I need to hold up. Like the amount of times I've watched legacy player not push when they had win in hand because they didn't have interaction or they didn't have the cards they wanted and they'll instead they'll ponder or something like that to try and find the card they need to make that resilient push. It's teaching me a lot about like how to be patient in a game, even when I'm playing a turbo deck. You know what I mean? Like, hey man, even if you think you have a window, you have two people untapped over here, or you know, you have interaction in your hand and you don't Necessarily have everything fully assembled, pass the turn. Go back around, rely
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: on your words, rely on your interactions, hold up that mana and make sure that you have a really, really resilient push because these days it like your I think it was your round three, you said you pushed through like four pieces of interaction to get to the win. Like that happens so regularly now, and you gotta be able to be prepared for that. And like it's it's also like you made really good point of like making sure that like have the things that you
Sam Valley: And like it's it's also like you made a really good point of like making sure that you like have the things that you need to execute the win, not just the cards that do it. like I see people all the time like
Sean: Like I see people all the time like going
Sam Valley: going their upkeep and silencing or untapping and then upkeep ranger captain. I'm like, brother, go to your draw step. Like get that card in your hand. Go if you're on Timna, go to go to combat, go to hit people. I don't care if you have six counter spells and thoss a decon in your hand.
Sean: Six counter spells and toss a decon in your hand. Hit with Timna first. Yeah, make it for sure. Cement it. Yeah. Make it do everything that you can to make sure that you have all
Sam Valley: Hit with Timna first. Like make it, make, make it, do everything that you can to make sure that you have all the resources that you will ever get in that scenario. Like it's it it seems like a no-brainer to someone, to like to you and me, but like, you know, I see people do it all the time where they don't they don't do the for sure stuff they don't do the easy stuff to make
Sean: in that scenario. Like it's it it seems like a no-brainer to someone to like to you and me, but like, you know, I see people do it all the time where they don't they don't do the for sure stuff the easy stuff to people.
Sam Valley: the win even like more concrete.
Sean: Well the other thing is like you ever watch like sixty players th most of the time what they will do, and this is the correct thing to do, I believe, is they won't play out their spells until post combat. Like they will go
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: to their main phase two after combat after they've guaranteed the attack, and then they'll decide what to do with their turn essentially, like with the rest of the
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm.
Sean: permanents they're gonna put out, because then you know whether or not somebody's gonna tempo you or do something in b in the mid combat step. If you try and play out a creature before combat and then somebody plays some kind of instant speed board wipe, you're like, all my ships gone now. You know what I mean? And I didn't get any damage through. Like there's just little things like that that I feel like you can learn. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Like yeah, like watching a lot of standard gameplay. Like, you know, some like, you're at nine life, let me swing three at you. See if you'll bolt my creature. 'Cause that's one
Sean: Swim through you, see if you'll bulk my creature.
Sam Valley: less thing they have, even if you can win afterwards. Yep.
Sean: Yep. Yep. Excellent dude. Alright, let's finish up the l the deck tech here. Commandeer's excellent, Miss Direction's excellent. Love both those cards. Yeah,
Sam Valley: Yeah, they're good.
Sean: Machine God, you said is another combo piece with I can do this. Demoted Druid Devoted Druid. it does the F the OG thing with Demoted Druid. it is
Sam Valley: Vodadruid, yeah. it does the that's the OG thing with the Vodad Druid. it is I'm I'll be real, I'm only playing this card because Kelly Ignatov made me a sick altar of it for my birthday.
Sean: Made me a sick alter. No dude. You know what? I have the image actually stored. I put it on a previous podcast. We'll put it up right now and I totally won't forget.
Sam Valley: I could just get the cards.
Sean: heck yeah. They're right there.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I got my deck. let's see. You can cut me you can cut me shuffle to my deck. Here's one.
Sean: no, I'm leaving all pain all these pain painful seconds in, dude. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.
Sam Valley: there's one.
Sean: Here, hold on, let me get let me stop screen share so we see these rightfully. There we go. So yeah, we got Ace's room master. He's a little squirrel.
Sam Valley: Alright, so yeah, we got Hazel's Brewmaster. Ooh, there we go. It's you can kinda see it, there go. Squirrel. you got devoted druid.
Sean: So sick.
Sam Valley: you got the Swift reconfiguration, all the matching art. and this actually forms a panorama
Sean: This actually forms a panorama.
Sam Valley: if you put the cards next to one another, which is really cool. we'll try and show that.
Sean: Dude.
Sam Valley: They all kind of they all kind of go together.
Sean: come on man. And then so I commissioned these three. she has a really good price on commissions I'd recommend going to. And then for birthday she got me a fourth Machine Gods effigy that has all inspirations from all three and it and it's so simple. Dude.
Sam Valley: Sick. And then so I commissioned these three. she has a really good price on commissions. I'd recommend going to her. And then for my birthday, she got me a fourth machine gods effigy that has all inspirations from all three in it. And it's so sick. like it is so cool. so that's the only reason I'm playing the card. but that being said, it has been really good. like
Sean: That being said, it has been really good. like
Sam Valley: just having like you have a bow master on board and you're playing versus like Canon Rog Thrass. Cast the machine guns after you get a second one that's not a creature. You won't lose that game. Like, getting like j it's just also a four mana clone. Like clever
Sean: No. Like, getting like it's just also a four-minute clone, like clever.
Sam Valley: imp if people cast clever impersonator, this makes mana and is clever impersonator. Like it's just well it doesn't it doesn't copy risk. You know, you get whatever you like it's just it's just been good. So I might not cut it. honestly, if I switch to the rock side build that you were on, I might I might run that one too.
Sean: And it's better in person. It's better. It's just well it doesn't it doesn't copy risky. You know, you give it. Like it's just it's just being good. So I might not cut it. honestly if I switch to the rock side building you were on, I might I run might run that one too. Yeah.
Sam Valley: just because it's
Sean: I think Machine Gods is really good in that list, dude. it's excellent. Yeah, I almost ran Ornithopter in that list just for Cam. You know, I told him that after the fact. I felt bad. But yeah, Machine Gods is disgustingly good, dude. And you're right, it can't copy all non-land permanents, but the fact that it also returns you mana you know, as a rock is really, really good. And just the upside of being able to like clone anything that can untap is just insane. So let's go back.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, it's been really good. Yeah. Rest of the deck is just normal stuff I think. Like I run the normal TNT. training grounds is something that people ask me a lot of out of. over Biomasters Familiar. I don't know. It's like you can do either one of them or both. They're both good cards. I just chose training rounds because it's cheaper to cast and it's I don't know. Like in a vacuum I think Biomaster Familiar is better, but it can also be just get swords, so I don't know.
Sean: It's cheaper cast and I don't know. Like in the vacuum I think biometri is just get restored. So Well you're not really on the cradle plan like you were saying. Like you do run a lot of creatures, but they're not really trying to spam. Like you're not running the Queen of Dale and shit like that, right? I don't think you had Queen and the creatures.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So this just makes more sense from like an efficiency perspective and you can use this instant speed if you really want to. If you're trying to go like flash or something like that, you can win on top with a training grounds pretty
Sam Valley: Yep.
Sean: readily. it's an easier c it it's you could also think of it as an as as an easier c
Sam Valley: it's an easier cl it's it's you could think also think of it as an as as an easier clone for the fairy tithe line. if you don't want to resolve a kinan or a tithe,
Sean: Yep. if you don't want to resolve a kinan or a tie.
Sam Valley: you can play it early training rounds. And then when you get there, it functions as another smothering tithe in those scenarios because you're having the cost of fairy. also just makes Thracios game plan way easier. Like it if you have a hand that makes mana and a training ground, it's a lot better hand. because you can yeah.
Sean: Yeah, you're basically just like in a shell isolated drawing your own cards, right? Yeah. That's super nice. It's also funny enough.
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I it's also funnily enough, it's a lightning bolt card, which I said I don't run lightning bolt cards. I do, it's this one. People overreact this card all the time. So I'll do that before I like like let's say I have a tithe and ten treasures, and then I'm like people know that I'm gonna win the game. I'm gonna be like training rounds and they'll be like, shit, we gotta counter this. They don't. They don't have to counter that. No, it it might draw me two or three extra cards off Thracios if I
Sean: Shit, gonna counter this You're like cool nerd.
Sam Valley: if I actually get stopped, but like, nah, bro, it's it's like you got you got baited.
Sean: It's like you got you got me. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say I that's something I would might
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: would definitely consider I'd be like, my god, 'cause like I played against, I don't know, three Rog Thrasses and a training grounds on that deck is death, you know, but you die for sure. Yeah, and this list like I draw two extra cards. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, you die for sure. In my deck it's like I draw two extra cards.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Which I mean depends on how much you care about me having two cards, but you know, yeah.
Sean: I'm more interested in copy enchantment and mirrormaid in this list actually. So th this is just basically the slot plan, basically, or is there do you have specific targets for these?
Sam Valley: no, they're mostly slop, but at the same time, I mean it's C D H. Your opponents are always going to do disgusting things. So,
Sean: same time, I mean it's C D H your opponents are always going to do disgusting things. So
Sam Valley: like Commandeer, copy enchantment, mirror made. Like, I wanted to not kill Kyle on Saturday because he had a Necro out and I had a copy enchantment in my hand. But I had to kill him. I was like, brother, can you just stop so I can kill you and then clone your Necropotons? Yeah, like it was
Sean: Yeah, man. I was like, brother, can you just stop so I can not kill you and he plugged an echo. And then went immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was they've been
Sam Valley: They've been I've I've never been sad to see them. I've kept hands off of them. Like it's they're just I think they're just good cards.
Sean: It's there's I think there's good cards.
Sam Valley: If I cut one of them it it'd be copy enchantment just 'Mir and made copy's more shit, but yeah.
Sean: Mm. And then land package, is there anything unique in here or is it pretty standard? I run Cavern of Souls
Sam Valley: I run Cavern of Souls, which is debatable, and City of Traders, but like I don't know. There it's it's a land package. There's not much you really can change other than like adding in Talon Gates if you really want to play Talon Gates.
Sean: Yep. There it is. I was like, wait, where the hell's cavern? Paths. Yeah, paths are dead. Hell yeah, man. Cool. Well, I mean, love the list. Like just talking through it, I'm like, damn farm and I'm like, this just feels a little more straightforward to the point, you know what mean? Yeah. No.
Sam Valley: Yeah. No, there's a Chuds list going around that people are like, do you play Chuds list? I'm like, No, I've seen that list. It's just pure slop. I have switched to being more proactive
Sean: switch to being more proactive.
Sam Valley: for I have won more games off of just Thoracle decon than I have any other win con in the deck in the past month, and it's not even close. Like eighty percent of my wins are just getting Thoracle in play. It's just yeah.
Sean: wow. Eighty percent of my wins are just getting dormed light. Yep. Which when you're not playing a frickin' when you're playing a a lot of creature tutors, it's way easier to do that, right?
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, there's like seven there's like seven copies of Torkoal in my deck, for sure.
Sean: There's like seven mem shirt. Hell yeah. That's amazing. all right, real quick, let's run through the Kinnan list because this is the other list that you play predominantly. What does this say at the top? Surfer brought. Did you go to my profile and click on it? Yeah, is this the wrong one? Okay, no, it's fine. We will cover this one. It's it's a little bit of a me right.
Sam Valley: is this did you just go to did you go to my profile and click on it? Okay, no, it's fine. We can cover this one. It's it's a little bit of a meme right now. It also has 101 cards in it. I'm currently tweaking a little bit with it. it's fine.
Sean: Shit, sorry dude. I can't find
Sam Valley: No, no, no, no. There's there are some things that I want to talk about though, so we can go through it.
Sean: Okay, cool.
Sam Valley: yeah. So I saw your list win the twister.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: and I was like, you know what could be really good at that? Kinnan.
Sean: yeah.
Sam Valley: So I was like, you know what? Let's just start
Sean: So I was like, you know what, let's just
Sam Valley: abusing the one ring. and that's exactly what this list is list aims to do. There are a couple weird cards in here that I don't think will be good, but I'm gonna try. in the sort in the instance section, Katara's reversal is one
Sean: sort in the incident section, guitar's rehearsal is what
Sam Valley: of them. it's hilarious. Emerald Charm is another one. Untap
Sean: Emerald Charm is another one. I love Emerald Charm. It's one of my favorite cards.
Sam Valley: target permanent, killeristic study. Katara's reversal. Counter up to four target spells and
Sean: Counter up the four target spells and building.
Sam Valley: abilities, untap up to four target artifacts or creatures.
Sean: What the f- WH?
Sam Valley: it's my I I cut sudden sub for it.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: it just seems so fun. Like in canon it's like make four mana, counter four things. I don't know, that seems good.
Sean: Yeah. And then also make twenty th seven thousand mana. Like
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I make make four mana 'cause you tap two permanents to do it and you untap four things. Like it's Yeah, no, I think it's like slept
Sean: I see, I see.
Sam Valley: on a little bit in Canon, but obviously it still requires holding up four mana, which is tough. But you know, end of the day a slope pitch is the force.
Sean: Pitch it Commandeer, pitch it to misdirection, pitch it to force, pitch it to all the other pitch spells, right? Negation, force of will. Yeah. There's so many things.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the creatures in the list are pretty stock. I wouldn't I wouldn't really want to talk about any of those. Everyone's on all those creatures. with some minor exceptions like Trophy Mage. Some people cut trophy mage, I don't know. but the the artifacts I'm on both keys, which is interesting, I guess.
Sean: mage, some people come through if you mage on them. the the artifacts among both keys, which is interesting. Yeah let's go to the artifacts. And I by the way, I totally agree with you. I think the power of that Rog Silist is in the artifact shell for a million percent and I it really is the other thing that I really like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that I I would restate is the fact that everybody was expecting me to jam. what made sh they all kept their interaction. So it delayed the game a turn and I got to just play rocks out and be like, What? It's just rocks and they like, I guess we won't counter that and then basically the thing where you
Sam Valley: Did you ever do the thing where you cast Silas and be like, guys, this sucks, I'm casting Silas and then transmute it like immediately? That's that sounds so fun.
Sean: Mm-hmm. I've I've not done that, but I've cast with Silas and people are like, ha ha ha and I'm like, Okay
Sam Valley: No, that's that's that that sounds so fun because you like you just like, all right, I guess I can't do it this turn. I'll I'll I or I can't I can't win, I have to just cast Silas. Then you untap and you go transmute bullets instead of the element of it, and it's just like like
Sean: Game's over.
Sam Valley: by then people might have used their interaction because they think you're out of the game. It just seems such like a slept on pattern. I don't know, that's like that's dope.
Sean: Yeah, the the power of the artifacts is what made that Grixis shell so good, I think, compared to normal rog side. And just like the change in play patterns. So for you to say like the only the only reason I'm kinda like skeptical about this plan is people don't like artifacts in Kinnan, but they don't counter it typically. Like when's the last time you got an artifact countered in Kinnan, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: No, they don't. Yeah, like it's like it's like turn two Kinnan tap birds for Talisman, tap Talisman for Signet, tap Signet for Felrestone, tap Felrestone for Grim Monolith, and everyone's like, that sucks. And then they have like Force of Will, Force and Negation, Mindbreak Trap in
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: their hand, and I'm like, Cool, thanks. Like
Sean: Yeah dude. I mean what about does that mean okay, well let's just do a little brew here while you're doing this. is seed borne better in this list? no? That is a tough one. It's an untapped one.
Sam Valley: that is a tough one. Because what usually happens when you when you resolve a seedborne muse is that you don't actually resolve a seedborne muse. Because someone just uses like one of their rugal pieces on it and then loses the rog thrass. Like
Sean: Or not a clock omens, I'm an idiot. What about what's the one that where all artifacts untap? Unwinding clock. Unwinding clock? Is that bad too? Maybe.
Sam Valley: Unwinding clock? Unwinding clock. maybe. It might not get countered or bounced. that's a decent topic of discussion, I guess. Maybe I'll think about that one. Yeah.
Sean: I don't know. You do your brew, man. I I was just like kinda I did not obviously have that in my list, but I also played ridiculous shit like the Gilded Lotus. So, you know, maybe Unwinding Clock was better, but I will tell you what didn't get countered was a fucking Gilded Lotus. People were like, Cool, bro. And I was like Yeah. Yeah. When are playing Dragon Free? Literally. Yeah, yeah. No, actually I just needed to fix
Sam Valley: That is yeah. What are we playing bracket three? nope, nope, you're gonna die.
Sean: this for my Thoracle decon. Thank you.
Sam Valley: Yeah. But yeah, I mean that's pretty much the list. It's pretty much NBC Kinnan with some untapping weirdness that's going on. cutting a couple of the cards that I probably shouldn't cut, like amphibian downpour or like disrupting shoal or something, but you know, it's fine. It's canon. People have won with twenty eight l like thirty five lands and eight two drops that don't do anything in canon before so
Sean: No dude, where's your Mishra's workshop? You gotta try the Mishra's. Yeah, you're right.
Sam Valley: Yeah, you're right. I should probably run that Mistress Workshop, huh? It doesn't help cast like Lanor Elves though.
Sean: you're only on eighteen rocks, man. I don't know. Maybe not.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I know. I gotta those are rookie numbers.
Sean: Rookie numbers. But you know, the Qatar's reversal is a necessary card, so we gotta keep that in. Okay, cool, dude. I love this list. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: Sky
Sam Valley: Also, yeah, like politicking the Tezzeret, like you cast Tezzeret they're like cast well and I'm like, I'll just go get one ring, the other one, the the seeker. I'll just go get one ring and then they don't know they're still dead.
Sean: politicing the tetheret, like you cast teseret and they're like like I'll just go get one ring, the other one, the secret, I'll just go get one ring and that they don't know they're still dead. Yeah dude. my god.
Sam Valley: So yeah, definitely has been a fun play pattern for sure.
Sean: Epic. Alright, let's talk about some cards. talk to me about Summit the Tyrant of Noctamon, man. Do you think it's a a real card? What are your what's your opinion on that? 'Cause it's a new piece. This is blue.
Sam Valley: Yeah, I don't know. I will say I haven't seen it once in probably forty games since it was teased. I don't have any experience playing against it. that said Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it has a spot in Kinan because like you're not trying to resolve creatins and sorceries, like you resolve creature tutors for Horror Horror, but I don't know. Like you can maybe argue for Rog Thras, but at the end of the Rogthrast
Sean: You can maybe an argue for rog thrust, but at the end of the day
Sam Valley: still has to cast creatures and do stuff that isn't under split second. It's tough to find a deck where it's like, yes, this this card is a must play. and for that reason, I think that the hate that it was having
Sean: Mm-hmm. It's tough to find a deck where it's like, yes, this this card is a bust play. Yep. for that reason I think that the hate that it was having
Sam Valley: on Twitter is very much unjustified. I don't think it's that great. I think that if it resolves, in some scenarios, it can absolutely end the game. However, it fits the same slot as Squelcher, and I think Squelcher's just better.
Sean: I don't think it's that good either. I think that if it resolves, in some scenarios, it can absolutely end the game. However it fits the same slot as Squelcher, and I Squelcher's better. Yeah, politically it's better. It's easier to cast 'cause red's typically easier to cast. Just talking about mana pips. yeah, I just think some would just take so much hate when it comes down. I think maybe six to eight months if it doesn't get played as much as we think it's not gonna get played, I think maybe it could like see a resurgence. And also just like You kinda have to win immediately or somebody clones it and you're just like, now we're in hell,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: you know? Even more even more so than like sculpture. Yeah, it's like worse.
Sam Valley: Even even more so than like Squelcher for sure. Cause there's so many like being having all your stuff be uncounterable is very powerful, but there's so many non-counter counter spells in the game now. In the meta,
Sean: There's so many non counter counter.
Sam Valley: I should say. They were always in the game. None of them are new, but they're they're in the meta for sure now. So I don't know. It's like fine. I haven't seen it. I hope I don't see it. yeah. It dies to Bowmasters really easily too, which is another thing.
Sean: seen it, I hope I don't see it. it dies to Boatmasters really easily too, which type of thing.
Sam Valley: Like yeah.
Sean: Yeah, and then same thing with Geist of Saint Thalia. So reverse that. It's a one-two. All non-creature spells cost one less. I personally, before you go, I think this card is good. I think it's very good. It's gonna find its way in certain shells. But a blue discount all your non-creature spells is insane. Like think about artifacts, think about planeswalkers, think about anything not a creature is Really good to have that discount, you know. And now what list
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: plays it, I you know, like Ral? I don't know, you know, like maybe T and K.
Sam Valley: Raoul's tough because they don't want they don't want blue cards. Like their blue poops are so so valuable. Like it's like stock up and stuff like that, and like that's it. Like they're mostly a red deck. Rogsai, I think, could definitely like tr traditional Rogsai could definitely run it. Any deck that Kevin Simmons is playing will run it. Yeah. like I think it's I think it's good. I've hit it off of a ragavan before and I'm like, huh, I should probably cast that. And I I I don't think I did,
Sean: Dude, that's so true. That's it. Like they're mostly a red deck. Rocksai, I think could definitely tr traditional Rocksai could definitely run it. Any deck that Kevin Simmons is playing will run It will definitely run it, yep. Yep. Yeah. Like I think it's I think it's good. I've hit it off of a ragaman before and I'm like, I should probably cast that. And I I I I don't think I did.
Sam Valley: but like it was like, that could actually be really valuable. so I think it's good. I think it'll see play. I just I don't
Sean: Mm.
Sam Valley: know what shells it'll see play in. Is it a human? Yeah. I can s I can see it in canon.
Sean: It is. no no, sorry, it's a spirit cleric. It's a one two flyer though. Is it a Timna attacker?
Sam Valley: Maybe in blue farm.
Sean: Damn it. Let's cut this out. I don't want people to know that. They don't need to we don't need to give them anything else.
Sam Valley: I don't know if I don't know if Timnothracios or like any other blue Timnalists would really care about it. Like in my list, I'm looking at my list and I'm like, okay, Sol Ring's free, I guess. I don't know. Like
Sean: A soul ring stream, I guess. I don't know like
Sam Valley: yeah, risk that cost two. Sure. I don't know.
Sean: I guess. But then you have to the investment of two and then you know, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting. and then all right, last hot take request, Pia. What do you think about Pia?
Sam Valley: it's a great card. I think that it's like one of the best non blue green creatures ever printed. Yeah. So like by that I mean like Rocco. Caber like Rocco. Like fantastic
Sean: Really? Best non-blue green creatures ever printed. Okay, so I mean like Rocco. Like everything like Rocco. Like fantastic.
Sam Valley: card. Goes in if I can discard a card, go get Food Chain, great.
Sean: Yeah.
Sam Valley: Rogue Thrass, discard a card, go get breach, great. Well obviously Rog Thrass is blue, but like you know what I mean. Like it's
Sean: Or earthcraft.
Sam Valley: or Earthcraft, yeah, like it's It's I think it's very good, but not in every green deck ever, right? Like the green decks that say I go get the ch this enchantment, I win the game, which are usually
Sean: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which are usually
Sam Valley: non-blue green decks.
Sean: Yep.
Sam Valley: very, very good. It's also good in things like I've brewed this Uro food chain list that I sometimes play in pickup games. like, you know,
Sean: Sometimes playing pickup games, like you know
Sam Valley: blue green Uro. and being able to like tutor out food chain basically with all of your creature tutors. Kind of cool. So
Sean: being able to like tutor out food chain basically with all of your creature tutors. my god. So That's nasty dude. Any any creature that does a thing that doesn't interact with creatures is really good. Mm yeah. Any any creature
Sam Valley: I think it's really good. Any any creature that does a thing that doesn't interact with creatures is really good. Like any e any creature ETB, like they're s often so overcosted because that effect like, for example, Karmic Guide is five mana, reanimates one mana, but on the creature is so good. Like that's why Formidable Speaker is probably one of most but busted and it gets creatures, but it's probably one of the most busted
Sean: Yeah. But on the creature is so good. Yeah. That's why for middle speaker is probably one of the most busted I think it's creatures, but it's probably one of the most busted
Sam Valley: creatures that we printed in the last like five years. Because The E T B of getting whatever you want is so
Sean: And then be like also being able to untap a permanent just as a bat like a it's it's all these like modal cards that are really good. I feel like cards like Samut are traps. You know what I mean? They're like, look at this busted
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: mechanic that's gonna make you look like a psycho but doesn't immediately win you the game. Those are not the good cards for CDH. I feel like the best cards for CDH are the ones that have like three like almost your Jace is a great example. Like in a in a specific shot like TNT, Jace is disgusting because it does everything
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: you want it to do and you have options when you cast it, right? So and it's politically good. You know, I think that's a big
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah.
Sean: thing because we talked about seventy percent of the game is the conversation you have on top of the game. And if you can cast a Jace and nobody freaks out, that's different than you casting Samut and not having a follow up and everybody's like, kill him, kill Sam, you know, like
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: that's bad. So
Sam Valley: there's also another card that was brought to me by a coworker. I I think it's it's going to be slept on and it should be until there
Sean: should be still there.
Sam Valley: becomes a viable reanimator deck in CDH. the new white Liliana is
Sean: No white Billy on them.
Sam Valley: incredible for reanimator decks. it's a soul warden effect. So it's one the creature's one white,
Sean: Really? It's a soul worn thing, so it's one the creature's one way.
Sam Valley: and whenever a creature you control enters, you gain life. Sure, whatever. it has the ability of discard a card, give something hexproof.
Sean: Yeah, something else.
Sam Valley: if re if there's ever a good reanimator deck, like Hashaton
Sean: If there's ever a good reactor deck, I think.
Sam Valley: but good, that card goes way up in value. And it's it from the from reality fracture. Like just being able to instant speed discard a creature.
Sean: Yeah. Like just be able to instant speed discard preacher.
Sam Valley: Like re and then you can reanimate it like with another strategy. I'm gonna play it in casual, but like that kind of stuff is to your point, like what's slept on in the sets is the subtle stuff that's gonna like, shit, this is gonna be broken. Like if if the if this
Sean: left on in the sense is the subtle stuff that's gonna be like, shit, this is gonna be broken. And it's tough because when you're looking at the card by itself in a shell, it's not like inherently powerful, but it's the interaction with the other cards that are powerful is what makes it really good. For example, like Sam Black finding a Bora Breeze collar is a perfect example of that. He was like, in this shell, this just wins the game and O Bora's
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sean: like what, a thirty year old card, twenty year old card? And he was like, this works and we win. It's like shit.
Sam Valley: Yeah. I'd like to personally thank Sam Black for giving me four hundred dollars 'cause I bought a foil or Bora Breeds collar for like forty five and then they went up to four hundred and I sold it. So thanks, buddy. Yeah.
Sean: Appreciate you, bro. Yeah, thanks. That's funny, man. But yeah, it's like all these sets print these cards and then like six months later the good brewers find them and go, shit, this works in this shell, right? like hunting Velociraptors in Atali is a great example of a car where you're like, this just is a three mana tolly on the nine the next turn. You know, it's like Usually it's
Sam Valley: Yeah. Usually it's around the question of that works like that. So yeah.
Sean: Yes. Yeah. So very cool, man. All right, let's wrap let's start the getting the wrap up here. So tell me a little bit about your plans for twenty twenty seven. What's this next season of Top Deck look like for Sam?
Sam Valley: Well, I pretty much only go to events within like four or five hours of me. you know, tournament grinder probably isn't the right word for me. I like going to events and playing magic. so I'll
Sean: Mm-hmm.
Sam Valley: continue that. I'll continue playing what I like to play. I'll always I'm always trying
Sean: I'm trying.
Sam Valley: to get better. I'm always trying to get the top deck win rate up, you know, have a cool metric to I'm an application engineer. I do observability
Sean: He's an engineer, we do it there.
Sam Valley: by trade, so I'm all about data. I'm all about trends. If I can make the draft go up, that's you know, that's a win for me.
Sean: Yep. so you know, just trying just trying to play more magic, hang with more cool dudes and women and you know there's
Sam Valley: so you know, just trying just trying to play more magic, hang out with more cool dudes and women. And, you know, there's obviously not very many women who play magic, but the ones that do are awesome. So yeah, just seeing more people, play more magic, doing the same stuff. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. I hope there's more events closer to me because I think with Excalibur kinda
Sean: ones that you are awesome. So Yeah. yeah, just see more people like more magic doing the same stuff. It's gonna be great. I hope there's more events closer to me because with Excalibur kinda
Sam Valley: going away, like the Columbus events and the Pittsburgh events are crop might not crop up as much. So
Sean: huge shout out to like, you know, Josh from Leather plays on running great events. You on you on running your big your big events. Thanks, man. Those need to those need to stay those need those need to keep happening because for a lot of the people that are kinda like me where I
Sam Valley: Huge shout out to like, you know, Josh from better plays on running great events, you from you on running your big your big events, like those need to those need to stay those need those need to keep happening because for a lot of the people that are kind of like me where I go to events in like the dry state area, like you know, here Michigan, Indiana, P Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, maybe, like and never outside of that, like, you know, you guys are propping
Sean: You you guys are in propaganda.
Sam Valley: it up and more people need to step up, I think.
Sean: Yeah, man, I appreciate that. And I totally agree. I feel like we're super spoiled in the Ohio and like Kentucky, pit definitely Pennsylvania, even Michigan area. They like there's so many good events. And honestly, man, like you go to these big, big ones, like I know you've been to a couple, like the Excalibur ones. The scene is kinda like I don't know, just 'cause people don't know each other, it's a little more like sweaty and not as special, except for the people
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: who are like the national grinders. Like you can kinda tell those people are like they know each other and that that's a fun time and you can kinda in you know, almost like integrate in with that crowd when you're there. But for the most part, I enjoy literally watching you win that tournament. It was like the like I was like I couldn't have a
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: a more fun Saturday, even though I didn't make top cut, I had a incredible Swiss rounds. I had a blast. I got to play with people I know and I, you know, yucked it up the whole day. And then I got to watch you play that insane game with two other guys that I really know really actually all three of you I know really well. I know Craig too. And so, dude, it we were all like sitting around going, you know, like I miss that. And I think so sometimes like especially guys or or anybody in their like mid-30s, it can be tough to find like a consistent group of people to hang out with nowadays because everybody's so online.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: So it's like a unique thing that we all get to like kind of converge and compete and have something to talk about all the time because there's constantly new shit coming out and like and also just get to if you can like meet more people in the space and Try and get better every day and get involved, I guess, in whatever way you can. You don't have to run tournaments. You can just be a killer like you, like a good player, and have an opinion that people respect. And that can kind of like give you an identity that and a and a and a group of people that you can enjoy being around. And that is something that is so important, I think. And a lot of people that look at magic from the outside are like, it's some nerdy card game. But like, dude, when you get in here, it's it's a com especially CDH. Like, I think the power of this format versus one v one is the community, the communal aspect of like, I got you this time and then like, yeah, but guess what guess who got you? You know, it's like that that doesn't happen in one v one as much as it does in our our format, you know? Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Yeah, there's so many cool moments that happen as part of C D H games that I that's why I don't play sixty card magic competitively. It's like I g I c I play some popper and stuff, but like I've been to standard events and modern and modern events and popper events and it's like I go there, I play three rounds of magic, I leave. I maybe talk to some guy I know. But in C D H games, like as long as no one's lying to your face or being mean or bully or something or like wounded too or something, like it's It's like you have a great time in every game. You get to know someone,
Sean: It's like you have a great time in every game. You to know someone.
Sam Valley: you get to talk to them. You like you have the connection with the other people. That's why people like love commander. That's why they love CDH. Like more of that, please. Like it's just always a great time. And it's also a reason why
Sean: that please it's just always a great time. And it's also a reason why
Sam Valley: I don't particularly like going to the huge going to the huge events because I've been to I've been to several of them at this point. And like I've I don't think I've ever
Sean: Because I've been I've been to several of them at this point and like I've I don't think I've ever
Sam Valley: been in a room with a thousand people in it and still felt alone. as I do as in a huge tournament when I when I where I know like
Sean: Million percent.
Sam Valley: one person. Like yeah, I might go to like the Lang go event of Tennessee and I know and I'm you know Kyle's there, Andy's there, Swainie's there, a B's there, you're there. Like everyone, everyone who's a everyone who's anyone in CDH is there. But like I don't can I don't talk to them as much because there's a thousand people there. And it's like I feel like I'm not with anybody right now, even though I'm surrounded by people. So it's like
Sean: So it's like I don't know, that's why I love Logan so much. Because everyone everyone there is like we're all just guys hanging out.
Sam Valley: I don't know, that's why I love locals so much. It's 'cause everyone everyone there, it's like we're all just guys hanging out and having a good time on a Saturday playing magic. It's not like it's competitive enough to be fun, but it's like not comp too competitive to where it's like
Sean: It's not like it's competitive enough to be fun, but it's like not too competitive to where it's like
Sam Valley: like, you know, you want to throw a punch the guy next to you. So
Sean: Yeah, did you play sports in high school? Yeah,
Sam Valley: Yeah, I play tennis and swimming.
Sean: I played tennis and swimming. Okay. So I swam too. basically you would get to a point where you'd play like the regional championship. So like I I'm from Canton,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: Ohio, and you would do like the Federal League track and field meet, and you can win that or you you know everybody 'cause they're all from the surrounding schools and you freaking know them, right? That is really fun because you're competing against the people you know. Then you go to like the state meet
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: and you're like, Who's this guy? Who's seven foot five and I isn't like not talking to me right now and I have to run a four hundred against this guy? Like And you just don't
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: know them, so you're just in your own little bubble. And it's exactly that. It's like, it's that that local scene versus the the national scene, which I'm not trying to knock on either one. I think there's a place for both of them. But I think last year, this past year, the 2026 season, everybody tried to blow out these huge events, and they were like traveling all over the place, and that was what everybody talked about on the frickin' podcasts. And I I just I felt like we lost a little bit. Everybody got tired, but also everybody kind of like got into that national scene and wasn't really vibing with it. And I think the lifeblood of C D H is the local scene. It really is. Like if we have a healthy
Sam Valley: Yeah, no, it is.
Sean: local and regional scene, the format's fine, you know?
Sam Valley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean like I think when I started first started playing C E D H we were lucky to get twenty five twenty to twenty five people at a local event. Now it's like Better Plays every month has sixty sixty five people. Warp Gate in Columbus could
Sean: Dude eighty. Or gate and Columbus could
Sam Valley: have that too if you know like there's a lot like the ev like The these stores can absolutely run events and all have sixty people in each of them. They just need to be consistent. They need to have consistent pricing. And like it just need and they need to create a friendly environment. And a lot of stores do that really well. And if you can do that locally, it will also just invite more big tournaments to your area because you have all of these stores running 10Ks and it's like, hey, there's a scene there. Let me take my big C D H company or my
Sean: more big tournaments to your area because you have all of these stores running ten Ks and it's like, there's a C there, let me take my big C D H company or buy
Sam Valley: what's the big card company? S C G con. Maybe maybe take my S C G con to that city more often. And then those tournaments get bigger and you get more tournaments and it will travel your city. Like it's just like a cascading effect where if the local scene's
Sean: CG con CG con CG con to that city more often and then those tournaments get bigger and you get more tournaments from the city. Like it's just like a cascading effect where if the local C
Sam Valley: really, really good, the national scene will will be drawn there. So
Sean: Yep. And I think like when you think about one v one, kind of drawing the parallel and I I promise I will let you go, brother, but I think this is a really cool conversation.
Sam Valley: Okay.
Sean: R CQs, right? They're regional qualifiers.
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: I think if you think about it that way, you could think about like the warpgate invitational that we played in or the better plays invitational that's coming up as those like R CQ moments, and then the people that top those could go to like a Wizards national, you know, basically circuit, you know what I mean? Or national tournament or whatever. And that could be what it is, right?
Sam Valley: Yeah, yeah.
Sean: But I think that ninety nine percent of the gameplay should be at that local regional level because it's just it's just a better culture and a better vibe and like you'll get less lying and cheating and well maybe not cheating,
Sam Valley: Yeah.
Sean: I don't know. You can't protect I you you kinda can police cheating when you know the person. Like if they do it once you're like, hey, you mother, you know don't do that shit. Like call a judge on. Like, let's deck tech every time. Yeah, exactly.
Sam Valley: Yeah. Like this person always marks the same three cards in their in their deck. Let's call a judge on them. Like those that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Sean: Ugh, yeah, man. Well that's cool, dude. And I I yeah, I know you're not like a a big national tournament grinder, but don't sell yourself short, man. You every tournament you're in, I'm like, son of a bitch, I gotta play against Sam again, you know? Like I I appreciate that. Yeah, ma'am. All right. Well, Sam, thank
Sam Valley: Yeah, I I app I appreciate that for sure.
Sean: you so much for coming on, dude. I'll let you go. last thing I like to do before every I let everybody go is any shout outs. Anybody you'd like to say thanks or say what's up. Yeah.
Sam Valley: Yeah, Logan O'Brien, Brandon Bordeaux, two best friends in the whole world. You guys rock, you guys are awesome to go to events with. everyone who I've played against all the time. Like, you know, everyone's ever the magic community is a great community, and I'm really glad that I found it. So like all the TOs are really great, everyone's really nice. It's shout out to everybody else, honestly. Like
Sean: that's cool, man. Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it, man. Alright, I'll talk to you later, man. See ya.
