Genuin Connections: Episode 14 -- Chad Hickey, Founder/CEO at Givsly

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Kind: captions
Language: en
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This is genuine connections featuring
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collaborative conversations about
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community, content, creativity,
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commerce, and the convergence of media
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and marketing.
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>> Hey everyone, welcome back to Genuine
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Connections, the show where we dig into
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how brands are rethinking the
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relationship between content, community,
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and the people we're trying to reach.
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I'm your host, Matt Wurst, CMO at
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Genuine. And today's conversation is one
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I've been genuinely looking forward to.
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My guest is Chad Hickey, who's the
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co-founder and CEO of Givesley, which is
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a valuebased advertising platform that
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connects brands with consumers through
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shared beliefs and in the process make
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and direct real dollars to nonprofit
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causes that matter. Chad spent nearly
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two decades in adtech building revenue
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teams at companies like ground truth and
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placed where location data and
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attribution were the entire game. And at
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some point along the way he asked a
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question a lot of people in this
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industry quietly avoid. What if
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advertising could actually do something
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good? That question became gives them.
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And what they've built isn't a charity
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play or a PR stunt. It's a functioning
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media model where purpose and
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performance aren't on opposite ends of
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the spectrum. So in an era where trust
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is scarce and authenticity is hard to
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fake and consumers are more skeptical
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than ever, I think what Chad is building
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matters a lot. And I think you'll come
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away from this conversation thinking
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differently about where media dollars go
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and what they can stand for. So let's
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welcome Chad Hickey to Genuine
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Connections.
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Chad, welcome to Genuine Connections.
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Thank you so much for being here with
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us. I know you just got off a plane, so
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getting up early for us.
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>> Yeah,
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>> appreciate it.
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>> Coming back from the West Coast,
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>> there's a lot of that going back and
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forth these days, especially in the
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beginning of the year with lots of
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events. Do you ever get used to it?
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>> You know, there was a time when I was
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literally traveling um globally. Every
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six weeks I would be in Asia for two
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weeks. I would come back to New York for
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a week and then I would go to Europe for
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a week and then I would come back to New
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York for two weeks but then I would kind
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of like spend some time in the US at my
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US markets and um I got very used to it.
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In fact, when it slowed down it kind of
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felt strange. Now I'm kind of in the
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opposite you know bucket where you know
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I think after the pandemic none of us
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travel near like that as much. Um, and
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so when I do have to do it, you know,
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it's kind of more in the middle of a
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balance, if that makes sense.
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>> Well, from the physical journeys to the
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more metaphorical journey, you've you've
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spent nearly two decades um across this
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industry with some some some great
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companies that we all know. When you
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think back and look back at that journey
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now, are there some common threads that
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shaped how you think about this industry
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and the role that we're we're kind of
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all contributing to society here in?
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>> Well, first of all, I won't hold it
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against you that you said two decades.
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That was a little hard to swallow. Um,
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but
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>> it's wisdom and experience go hand in
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hand, just so you know.
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>> No, no, no. I'm just kidding. Um, you
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know what I've learned about myself is
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that I cannot work for a company or I
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guess start a company where I'm not
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genuinely interested in the product and
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I don't 150% believe in the vision.
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>> Um, and I've had a couple of companies,
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one specifically that, you know, I took
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a role for the money. If I'm being
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honest, the package was very uh very
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attractive. I negotiated that one pretty
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well. And it was probably the company
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that I was the most miserable. So, I
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learned through that experience that
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one, money isn't everything. That's the
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the first piece. No matter what people
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believe, I say money can buy uh peace of
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mind, but it can't buy happiness. Um but
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from that other side of things, I
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realized about myself that I also need
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to work in a company where I genuinely
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am interested in something. Like I'm not
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very good at pretending to be interested
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in topics. And so, um, that is the one
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rule of thumb that I live by. And I
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think in this environment, you know,
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people will ask me all the time,
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especially with a lot of people, you
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know, looking for a role or being out of
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work, they're like, "Where would you
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go?" And I'm like,
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you know, I don't see a ton of companies
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that me personally like I'm super super
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interested in or excited by. Um, and
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that just may be my exposure, but you
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know, from that perspective, it's just
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something I've learned about myself.
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Well, and and you think backing back on
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those roles that you've had in in many
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cases like leading revenue teams in
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adtech at a time when mobile and
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location data and all these variables
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and attribution are exploding.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Was there a specific moment when you had
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this realization that the industry
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needed to evolve beyond
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performance and targeting into something
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more values driven?
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Um
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I wouldn't say
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>> a slow burn into that realization.
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>> I wouldn't say that there was a moment
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specifically. I think that look that you
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know I started Gibsley really out of my
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experience when I was the CRO of XED
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which is now ground truth where
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>> you know we were going and volunteering
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with our clients some of the time rather
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than just always taking them to like uh
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a sporting event or a concert or things
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like that. And it was one of the things
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that out of the relationship like that I
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developed from those experience, it was
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different. It was a human relationship.
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And so what's interesting, you know,
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about Gibsley starting in 2019 as an
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experiences company and now having
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experiences and media is that people are
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really leaned into the experiences side
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in a different way than they were um in
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the beginning. even in 2020 during the
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pandemic and and George Floyd and Bana
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Taylor and some of those other um
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significant moments, it's that I think
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in this world of automation and um
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people staring at their phone more than
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they do a human face, you know, they are
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looking for human connection. I I know
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even from my own, you know, experience
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of, you know, to your point, Matt, of
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being in the industry for as long as I
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have, you know, people don't want to go
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out like they used to. They don't want
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to be entertained the way that they used
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to. they are looking for something
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unique that makes them feel good. Um
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because feeling good in today's world is
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scarcity and I think human connection is
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a scarcity and it's only going to become
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more of one. And so we definitely see
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the event side taking on um a much
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deeper meaning than even I anticipated
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when starting the company in 2019.
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And I think I've seen you call it I want
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to get the language right. Like a
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valuesbased advertising
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>> platform or experience.
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>> Yeah. that gives brands the ability to
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align with a consumer belief or or
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purpose, which I know is a term that
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means different things to different
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people. But what does that actually look
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like in practice for a marketer when
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they're balancing personal feelings,
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thoughts, reactions to representing a
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business that has to also consider
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everyone in its audience target
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segmentation?
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Yeah, I think that, you know, it's a
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great question because
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I think what we do a lot of times gets
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really mistaken for um, you know, a
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strategy for cause marketing or some
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sort of ESG um, you know, uh, tool to
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help people meet a goal. And yes,
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indirectly those things, you know, can
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be achieved through our products. But
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really what we are seeing marketers
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understand is that values is coming into
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the consideration set the same way as
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price quality and convenience to buy a
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product. And so what Gibsley is very
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bullish on and I'm very bullish on is
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saying no this isn't a cause marketing
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strategy. This is a way to speak to your
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consumer. More than six and ten
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consumers in the US say that values
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comes into the consideration set when
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selecting a brand. And when price,
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quality and convenience is the same,
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values directs people into the the um
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direction of the brand that the values
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align with that consumer. And so for us,
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we are super focused on how do brands
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talk to consumers based on who they are
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and what they value as as a human so
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that they can build trust and loyalty
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rather than it being about in my view
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the historical way of approaching cause
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marketing where
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>> the ads are kind of fluffy. It's not
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always about okay like this is what we
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stand for. We see you as a person. now
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come in and buy our products because
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we're supporting you as a human, which
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is a buying behavior. You know, what I
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say to brands all the time is if I told
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you six out of seven of your consumers
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were Hispanic, you would be targeting
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Hispanics or a sports enthusiast, you
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would be targeting sports enthusiasts.
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Brands need to be thinking about values
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in the exact same way. It's not this
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like fluffy cause marketing uh strategy.
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It is a part of the consumer
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consideration set. And so they need to
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be thinking about how they incorporate
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that into their product messaging. And
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that's why 95% of the campaigns that we
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run are actually product campaigns.
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They're not cause marketing. So from
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that consumer expectation or behavioral
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mindset or whatever it is that creates
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that real business opportunity, right?
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It's not just like checking a box to
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your point.
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that six and 10 or that number I feel
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like it's accelerated and the number is
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impressive and hopefully continues to
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grow but what is it about this movement
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towards values alignment between brands
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and consumers that has made it
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accelerate more recently is it those
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flash points is it just the fact that
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media is more accessible and we're
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walking around with devices and
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everything's in real time now
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>> look I think that some you know brands
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have been doing this a really long time
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and if you look at them. They are very
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successful brands and I think that, you
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know, Patagonia, even Chick-fil-A, like
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I'm a person that Chick-fil-A's values
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doesn't necessarily align with mine,
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right? But I here's here's what I would
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say. Tomorrow, if Chick-fil-A says,
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"Hey, we're not ever supporting a Pride
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Festival," I would go, "Okay, why?"
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Because I know what their values are.
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They're very clear in that. And
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sometimes the convenience and the
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quality of their product, like I go and
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buy one of their sandwiches. I don't do
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it frequently, but you know that sort of
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thing.
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>> And so I think that now in this moment
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where everything feels very unstable and
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very uncertain no matter what side of
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the fence you sit on and it's kind of
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hard to have these conversations without
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it being somewhat political. Um, but
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consumers, I think, are really taking
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control in a way that they feel very out
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of control. and where they're taking
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control is by saying, "Okay, I'm gonna
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buy from brands who see me as a human
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because that's the way to make my voice
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heard in some sort of way that impacts
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their bottom line so that then they
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start to pay more attention to who their
00:11:33.839 --> 00:11:36.630
consumer base is." Well, and and some of
00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:38.949
the brands, we don't need to name names,
00:11:38.959 --> 00:11:40.389
but some of them probably still think
00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:42.790
that purpose-driven campaigns are nice
00:11:42.800 --> 00:11:46.389
to haves, but we're starting to hear
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.150
these stories, and maybe we always have,
00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:49.829
just now we're more attuned to it, but
00:11:49.839 --> 00:11:52.069
the fact that they can be performance
00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:54.710
drivers, it's it's it's valid. It's
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.190
happening. What have you seen from a
00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.550
data perspective that or or just about
00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:01.829
the relationship between values
00:12:01.839 --> 00:12:03.430
alignment and marketing performance that
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.629
can kind of justify this? I mean it is
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:10.069
we have a 90% plus retention rate in our
00:12:10.079 --> 00:12:13.430
media campaigns because they overperform
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.829
and it is everything from brand
00:12:15.839 --> 00:12:19.750
awareness to advocacy to purchase intent
00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:23.110
to store visitation down to sales. We
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.990
have uh a a brand that works with us
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.110
that showed that we are producing 33%
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.670
increase in ROI quarter over quarter. So
00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:34.550
that is from their sales data. So, we
00:12:34.560 --> 00:12:36.710
know that it works. And again, I think
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.949
that, you know, we have to break away
00:12:38.959 --> 00:12:41.910
from cause marketing or purposedriven
00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:43.670
campaigns, like some of these words
00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:46.790
that, yes, it is that peripherally, you
00:12:46.800 --> 00:12:48.470
know what I mean? But they also have
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.590
this fluffy um legacy impression, I
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.670
think, to marketers where they've
00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:56.230
historically not been seen as an ROI
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.910
driver. it's been more of like a brand
00:12:57.920 --> 00:12:59.829
awareness driver or something more top
00:12:59.839 --> 00:13:01.509
of the funnel where what we're saying is
00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.910
like listen um this is actually going to
00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:06.389
bring people to the shelf to actually
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.110
select your brand. In fact, we had a CPG
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.590
brand say we see that when people see
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:13.910
your ad formats that they feel some sort
00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.949
of accountability at the shelf to
00:13:16.959 --> 00:13:19.829
actually select our brand because they
00:13:19.839 --> 00:13:21.829
have much more of a human connection to
00:13:21.839 --> 00:13:23.590
it which I thought was a super
00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.509
interesting insight. I think it um yes I
00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.190
I agree and I think as you're talking
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.110
about this what I hear in my mind you
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:32.870
know there's always this classic balance
00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:34.629
and battle and we hear it all the time
00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.190
too brand verse performance brand and
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.629
performance it's the age-old thing
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.949
that'll never go away but in some ways
00:13:40.959 --> 00:13:45.110
you're helping redefine a branding
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.750
exercise for brands that is also about
00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:50.470
performance so you're kind of doing that
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.030
work so if you can rebrand cause
00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:57.030
marketing into marketing based marketing
00:13:57.040 --> 00:13:58.069
>> doesn't it work right
00:13:58.079 --> 00:13:59.910
>> yeah and and I think it's foundational
00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.829
to the future consumer like when you
00:14:01.839 --> 00:14:05.189
talk about data um the data is showing
00:14:05.199 --> 00:14:07.829
us that there's really three groups that
00:14:07.839 --> 00:14:10.230
significantly overindex for looking for
00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.150
values when selecting a brand one
00:14:12.160 --> 00:14:14.389
millennials and Gen Z not surprising
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.069
multicultural audiences which are the
00:14:16.079 --> 00:14:18.069
growth audiences 40% of this country is
00:14:18.079 --> 00:14:20.470
someone of color um or queer you know
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.230
that sort of thing um and then affluent
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.230
audiences so the people are probably
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.150
going to have the money to still
00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:29.269
transact in uh you know in a down
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.150
economy. And so I think for smart
00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:34.310
marketers who are forward thinking they
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.189
are understanding this. They just it's a
00:14:37.199 --> 00:14:39.430
scary thing as you can imagine. But like
00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.110
what I say to people is listen you see
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.670
negative things happening when someone
00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:48.550
betrays the values that they have
00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:50.389
previously stated. It's kind of going
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.069
back to that Chick-fil-A example, right?
00:14:52.079 --> 00:14:53.670
like Chick-fil-A saying that they're
00:14:53.680 --> 00:14:55.670
never going to sponsor a pride festival
00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.670
isn't a betrayal of their values that
00:14:57.680 --> 00:14:59.269
they've previously stated. So therefore,
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.110
me as a member of the queer community
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.310
doesn't
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.710
>> I don't I don't feel that impacted by
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.350
that now.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:06.790
>> And their and their base isn't either
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:08.470
because their base has always known what
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.310
they stand for. And
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.230
>> but if their but if they came out and
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:13.910
said, "Hey, we're changing our logos
00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:16.389
rainbow and all that," their base would
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.710
they would have backlash. And the other
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.310
really interesting thing about all of
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:21.750
this is, you know, people think it's
00:15:21.760 --> 00:15:24.150
some woke liberal thing in the research
00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:25.750
that we've done with Global Web Index,
00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.590
which we just announced actually today,
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.509
uh, so whenever this airs, March 6. Um,
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:30.949
if anyone's interested in the research
00:15:30.959 --> 00:15:33.430
to reach out, but we found that the
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.829
fastest growing groups of people who are
00:15:35.839 --> 00:15:37.350
shopping based on values are actually
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.990
conservatives and baby boomers. So it's
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.310
not that liberal, it's not that younger,
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.389
it's not that people of color aren't,
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.069
you know, accelerating. They're just not
00:15:46.079 --> 00:15:47.509
accelerating at the same rate because
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.030
they already had that foundation there.
00:15:49.040 --> 00:15:52.629
>> Right. Okay. So, and regardless of that,
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.829
what you are creating, you're building a
00:15:55.839 --> 00:15:59.990
new model for advertising, right? It's
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.509
it's changing incentive structures. And
00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:04.710
I think one of the interesting things
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.310
about Gizley as I've gotten to know you
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.150
is that it changes how media dollars
00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:10.389
flow, right? Connecting things that may
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.069
not have been connected before as a, you
00:16:14.079 --> 00:16:15.509
know, as someone who's getting to know
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:17.269
you or for the listeners who may not
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.949
know as much about you. How does that
00:16:18.959 --> 00:16:21.829
model actually work for for like
00:16:21.839 --> 00:16:26.150
agencies and brands and even nonprofits?
00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:27.749
>> Yeah, we I mean, look, we take a
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.110
percentage of our margin and we donate
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.629
it back with every dollar that comes in.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.310
We've always done that for events. We do
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.350
that with media. And so it's so funny
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:36.629
when people say like, "How do you make
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.069
that work? How are you a profitable
00:16:38.079 --> 00:16:40.470
company?" I'm like, I think it just says
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.310
something about the margins of other
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.710
companies that they're not willing to
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.870
donate, you know, a certain percentage.
00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:49.030
You know what I mean? And so what that
00:16:49.040 --> 00:16:50.550
means for brands, what that means for
00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:52.710
nonprofits, uh, specifically is that
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.629
nonprofits are now, you know, through
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:56.310
working with us seeing a new revenue
00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.269
stream, right? like they're tapping into
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.189
marketing dollars for products rather
00:17:01.199 --> 00:17:03.670
than these cause marketing dollars that
00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.750
you know tend to be one 2% of the
00:17:05.760 --> 00:17:07.669
overall marketing budget. You know, now
00:17:07.679 --> 00:17:10.309
we're saying as Gibsley,
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.029
it is inherent to our DNA to always
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:15.270
donate based on every dollar that comes
00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:16.870
into the door. And that is baked into
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.990
our model. And so when I plan out 2026,
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.069
I say, "Okay, a certain percentage of
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.230
our gross revenue is going to go to the
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.309
charities of our customers choice." And
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:27.909
that's just the way the model's always
00:17:27.919 --> 00:17:28.309
been.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.150
>> Another line item in the P&L, right?
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:31.909
>> It's just a line item.
00:17:31.919 --> 00:17:34.310
>> Yeah. Uh, and so I think that a lot of
00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:37.110
uh, people that are newer to the Gibsley
00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:38.789
story, you know, sometimes approach it
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.310
with skepticism. And when they ask me
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:41.350
that question like, "How are you able to
00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:42.710
do this and be a profitable company?"
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.150
I'm like, "You should ask your other
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.789
partners why they're not able to do it."
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.830
>> Well, I I give you I mean, personally, I
00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:53.990
give you a ton of just praise and and
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.909
want to express gratitude for the I
00:17:55.919 --> 00:17:58.310
mean, it's millions of of dollars.
00:17:58.320 --> 00:17:58.789
>> Yes.
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:01.110
>> That you've given even over the years.
00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:03.110
But I think even the proximity to
00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:05.029
nonprofits, which is something, you
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.029
know, again, I personally believe in
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.110
just based on the, you know, where my
00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:11.830
values align, there's so much that you
00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:14.070
can learn as a marketer, as a
00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:16.070
storyteller, because some of the best
00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:17.669
marketers I know are in the nonprofit
00:18:17.679 --> 00:18:19.029
space because they have to be creative,
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.230
they have to get scrappy, they have to
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.070
do more with less. has been has being
00:18:24.080 --> 00:18:25.830
close in proximity to them taught you
00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:28.950
anything about community and engagement
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.110
that marketers can learn from?
00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:33.350
>> Um, look, I think that nonprofits
00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:35.190
protect their brand just like brands
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:36.789
like Walmart and the Home Depot and
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.029
others, right? Like I think that that
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:44.310
for me was um a naive approach in the
00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:46.070
beginning and I learned that very
00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:48.150
quickly. Like I just assumed, and I see
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.310
this a lot with our customers sometimes,
00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:53.350
you know, that haven't dabbled in this
00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:55.110
mindset very much, is that they think,
00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:57.830
"Oh, well, I donate $1,000, they're just
00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:00.070
going to be happy, you know, and at the
00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:01.270
end of the day, some of the larger
00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:03.350
nonprofits protect their brand just as
00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:06.470
much as forprofits do." And they run
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.549
welloiled machines that are very direct
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.590
response um you know, focused where it's
00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:14.310
all about every dollar coming in to uh
00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.230
you know, the organization. Now, that's
00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.150
typically for the more seasoned and
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.470
wellestablished nonprofits. In the
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.310
smaller nonprofits, you know, they do
00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:23.909
need more help at understanding our
00:19:23.919 --> 00:19:26.470
world, how to get the marketing message
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.990
out and all of that. But I think that
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.150
the biggest lesson has been that, you
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.110
know, this isn't, you know, sometimes
00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:34.789
>> partnering with for-profit companies for
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:36.710
nonprofits is more of a re resource
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.070
constraint than people realize. Um and
00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.990
so at the end of the day they are just
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.909
looking for additional funding to
00:19:43.919 --> 00:19:45.510
fulfill their mission because they can
00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:49.190
operate themselves you know easier than
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.669
bringing in a company of volunteers for
00:19:51.679 --> 00:19:53.350
you know 100 people for the day where
00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:54.789
they have to train them and that takes a
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.110
lot of like operational um you know
00:19:57.120 --> 00:19:59.029
longevity there. So um I think that
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:00.549
that's been really one of the biggest
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:01.750
lessons I've learned the more I've
00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:04.150
gotten into the nonprofit world. That's
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.590
Yeah, I think that's a good point is to
00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:07.830
call out the fact that like it's not
00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:09.750
just that all nonprofits are the same.
00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:10.230
>> Yeah.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.390
>> Right. It is an ecosystem of big, small,
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.789
well staffed, not right. So I think
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.750
that's actually a helpful point as
00:20:19.760 --> 00:20:22.549
brands, it's also a loaded term, brands
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.310
means everybody. Yeah. But as as
00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:27.110
companies talk about purpose constantly
00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:29.190
and it's become one of those words like
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.270
authenticity that you hear and you it
00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:33.350
may have even lost its meaning
00:20:33.360 --> 00:20:35.750
>> until someone can imbue something back
00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:37.830
that that restores it.
00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:40.470
>> I think it's created unfortunately some
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.950
skepticism with consumers because
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.430
they're not sure if it's
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.630
genuine or if it's performative. So, how
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.350
can we collectively tell the difference
00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:54.310
between genuine purpose and performative
00:20:54.320 --> 00:20:57.350
purpose? Is there how do you do it?
00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:57.990
>> Consistency
00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.830
>> glasses on and get a little closer to
00:20:59.840 --> 00:21:01.909
the to the to the story that they're
00:21:01.919 --> 00:21:03.750
telling or is it just meeting the people
00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:04.710
behind them?
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.630
>> No, it's the it's the consistency and
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.149
it's in their actions. People can say a
00:21:08.159 --> 00:21:09.110
lot of stuff.
00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:11.669
>> I can say a lot of stuff, but if I'm not
00:21:11.679 --> 00:21:15.350
actually walking the walk, that is when
00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:17.590
>> things go left, right? And I think that
00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:19.190
that is where the consumers have gotten
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.230
very very smart. The the example I
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:24.070
always think about is, you know, 10
00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:27.270
years ago in June, every brand would
00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:29.750
change their logo to rainbows and, you
00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:32.310
know, virtue signal all day long or you
00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:33.990
would walk down the street in June in
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.590
New York and every store window looked
00:21:35.600 --> 00:21:37.510
like a rainbow threw up on it. And and
00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:41.029
candidly at that time, um, I found it
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:42.710
very performative. Like I was like,
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.230
people don't really care, you know, like
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:45.990
they're just like virtue signaling for
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.510
this one month. I like to say that I'm
00:21:47.520 --> 00:21:49.750
only gay in June and July one I I turned
00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:52.070
straight. Uh you know, you're welcome,
00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:54.390
ladies. Uh but anyway, you know, from
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:55.669
from that perspective,
00:21:55.679 --> 00:21:56.630
>> shut up.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.789
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just wait until July 1st.
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:00.950
I'll be back in the dating pool. No. Um
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.710
but it it was like one of those things
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.789
that felt for me very performative. But
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.149
on the flip side of that, now
00:22:10.159 --> 00:22:13.350
I notice very much how lacking that is.
00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:16.549
and the brands who are still brave
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.990
enough and authentic enough to say, "No,
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.630
we still very much support this group."
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.630
But for me, it's been an interesting
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.710
thing for me to process because
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.430
initially I had a inauthentic reaction
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.870
to it 10 years ago where now I'm seeing
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:36.950
the authenticity. Unfortunately, that
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.230
authenticity though is not consistent
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.149
with how those brands behaved in the
00:22:42.159 --> 00:22:43.590
past. And I think that that's where you
00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:45.669
experience backlash. People are paying
00:22:45.679 --> 00:22:47.830
attention. I am paying very much
00:22:47.840 --> 00:22:50.149
attention to the brands who in this
00:22:50.159 --> 00:22:52.310
moment still stand up for who I am. And
00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:54.149
I know a lot of people of color. I know
00:22:54.159 --> 00:22:55.669
women.
00:22:55.679 --> 00:22:57.669
Hell, even white straight men. I don't
00:22:57.679 --> 00:22:59.110
like the fact that people say, "Oh, this
00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:00.870
white straight man." It's like, I would
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.950
not be in my career without a lot of
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:04.310
great white straight men that pulled me
00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:05.990
along, you know, and believed in me. So,
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.470
I think we also have to retire that. But
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.230
I do think that brands need to
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.750
understand that uh we are paying
00:23:13.760 --> 00:23:15.669
attention and there will be a day where
00:23:15.679 --> 00:23:17.909
hopefully this time passes and I think
00:23:17.919 --> 00:23:20.549
that um the brands who stay true to who
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:21.990
they are and they understand that the
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.710
narrative doesn't reflect consumers are
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.590
going to be the ones that win.
00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:29.830
>> Okay. So consistency
00:23:29.840 --> 00:23:35.029
is key for trust, right? Correct.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.310
>> You know, we're living in this moment
00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:37.830
where trust in institutions and media
00:23:37.840 --> 00:23:39.669
and platforms is just fluctuating
00:23:39.679 --> 00:23:40.950
dramatically
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:43.110
>> because of inconsistency.
00:23:43.120 --> 00:23:45.990
>> So, I'll just say instead of purpose
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.590
driven, valuesdriven campaigns can help
00:23:49.600 --> 00:23:52.950
brands rebuild trust with
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.470
communities. It's not just audiences
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:55.830
because I think community is this
00:23:55.840 --> 00:23:57.830
multidirectional
00:23:57.840 --> 00:23:59.990
participatory experience as opposed to
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.029
what used to be media where it's I'm
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.310
showing you something.
00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:04.630
>> Yeah.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.710
>> So the ones who actually ask for
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.789
feedback or who solicit participation
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.190
are the ones who win consistently.
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:12.789
>> Yeah. And I don't even say communities.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.669
I don't even say I say customers because
00:24:15.679 --> 00:24:16.789
that's when
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:17.990
>> that's your business hat.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.510
>> Yeah. That's when a brand understands
00:24:19.520 --> 00:24:21.510
that, oh, a customer has money and they
00:24:21.520 --> 00:24:23.590
come in and they buy my product. And
00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:24.870
yeah, if you're doing something
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:28.230
inconsistent, I'm not buying from you.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.029
>> Okay? And and the other thing too is
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.430
that values, people need to understand
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.470
values doesn't have to just mean DEI and
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.669
sustainability. Like that's where
00:24:37.679 --> 00:24:39.669
everyone defaults. They're like, "Oh my,
00:24:39.679 --> 00:24:41.990
but wait, I can't." It's like we will
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.590
sit across from a CPG brand and they'll
00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:45.269
be like, "Our values is healthy eating
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:45.990
or
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:47.350
>> Exactly. I was just going to say health
00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:48.870
is is a value, right?
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:49.430
>> Yeah.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:50.789
>> Look at look at what's going on with
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.870
anthropic and open AI. Like I don't want
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.430
mass surveillance. Like I am not using a
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.750
platform that I don't feel comfortable
00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:01.590
with the way my data is being shared.
00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:04.230
That is one of my values. And so I also
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.909
think that brands need to get out of
00:25:05.919 --> 00:25:09.029
this very narrow lens of what values are
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.430
because you know we'll we'll get a
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.750
response sometimes from people who just
00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:16.390
don't I think want to think in a forward
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.830
way you know like we'll reach out if
00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:19.269
there's a good fit. Okay, you don't have
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.830
values today. Like I always have values.
00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:23.590
Values is in everything that I do and
00:25:23.600 --> 00:25:26.070
the way that I behave. And so brands
00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:27.909
need to start thinking that way rather
00:25:27.919 --> 00:25:29.990
than these oneoff things because again
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.549
that's also doesn't feel authentic, you
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.870
know, when customers just see it as
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:36.870
like, oh, it's it's International
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.470
Women's Day. We've got to like do an
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.470
International Women's Day. No. Like
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.870
Facebook clients all the time.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.350
>> Yeah. you know, the the more I hear you
00:25:47.360 --> 00:25:48.710
talking about it and it's something that
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.750
you've been a leader in for a while,
00:25:51.760 --> 00:25:55.830
I think even values as a term is not
00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:57.830
really enough. I mean, it's important,
00:25:57.840 --> 00:25:59.430
but it's not enough. To me, it comes
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:00.870
back to now as you're as you're
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.029
explaining it, the business importance
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:05.830
of just relevance. Is what you're doing
00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:08.470
relevant to your consumer? Because if
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:10.310
that's true, then your values align and
00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:11.830
your messaging and your positioning and
00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:13.909
your product attributes align because
00:26:13.919 --> 00:26:15.590
it's relevant. That's right. And
00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:18.870
creating some sort of relevant relevance
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.950
index is probably the new performance
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:24.470
metric that no one's figured out yet,
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:25.669
but need to soon.
00:26:25.679 --> 00:26:27.430
>> Well, yeah, go ahead.
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.470
>> Oh, sorry. You know, humanity is going
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.149
to be the scarcity of the future. You
00:26:34.159 --> 00:26:35.350
you know what I mean? And
00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:37.029
>> literally this is where I was going.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:38.149
That's That's right.
00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:41.590
>> Yes. And so people who don't realize
00:26:41.600 --> 00:26:43.350
that
00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:46.710
they're to me behind in my opinion is
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.390
the world becomes more and more we see
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.430
it in our event side of our business so
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.909
much where people are just looking to
00:26:53.919 --> 00:26:57.990
connect based on who they are and it not
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.590
always being about oh here's a CTV panel
00:27:01.600 --> 00:27:03.510
you know it's like or oh let's talk
00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:07.110
about you know how we're using AI to do
00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:09.590
XYZ transform marketing. Yeah.
00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:12.230
>> Yeah. Like it it is people want to be
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.630
seen. They want to feel like people care
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.390
about them. I mean, look at what's
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:18.390
happening with the workforce. Like I've
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.549
never seen morale of our industry be at
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.870
the level that it is like with some
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:28.230
groups. Um and it is because people feel
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.029
a lack of hope. Like that's the only way
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.990
I can think to explain it. like
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.549
visualizing the future right now is very
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:39.669
very hard.
00:27:39.679 --> 00:27:42.390
>> Yeah. Uncertainty I I think uncertainty
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.269
is fair but hope and uncertainty don't
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.750
have to be tied to the same thread.
00:27:47.760 --> 00:27:51.190
>> And as we look ahead
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.630
three, five years again I looking beyond
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.549
three years right now is is probably
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:58.789
hard for a lot of reasons. But do you
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.389
think that this relevance-based or
00:28:00.399 --> 00:28:02.549
values-based
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:04.710
advertising becomes a niche or does it
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.990
become table stakes as we as we think
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.389
about this next evolution of AI and
00:28:10.399 --> 00:28:12.870
responsibility and ethics and technology
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.470
and all those things accelerating?
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:15.990
>> Oh, I think it's table stakes because
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.549
values is humanity, right? Like it's
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.630
funny. I um I actually asked one of the
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.029
platforms to explain my values and it
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:27.190
can't like I mean it was like hey like I
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:28.149
think
00:28:28.159 --> 00:28:30.549
you are like this, you know what I mean?
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.669
But it wasn't necessarily accurate. And
00:28:33.679 --> 00:28:36.230
so to your point, is it this niche
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.269
thing? No. Like I think that people are
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.310
going to need human connection more than
00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:45.350
ever in 10 years because everything will
00:28:45.360 --> 00:28:48.789
feel so I mean look at even the news
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.789
like you like people will send me an
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:51.909
article and the first thing I say is
00:28:51.919 --> 00:28:53.269
what's the source? You know what I mean?
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:54.549
And they'll say well I think it's this
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.549
but who knows what's really happening.
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:57.990
you know, like how many times does that
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.549
happen to people now? And so that
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.149
humanity and that connection is going to
00:29:02.159 --> 00:29:04.630
be a scarcity and it is going to be uh
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.630
very soughta in the future.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.190
>> Well, I and I love that you have a real
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.710
human connection foundational pillar to
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.870
what you guys do and as a karaoke I
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.549
wouldn't even say enthusiast because
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:20.870
passion exceeds enthusiasm most of the
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:22.470
time, sometimes excessively.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.510
>> Yeah.
00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:27.510
How has that become a rallying point? Is
00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:28.789
it just because people love coming
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.510
together or is it is there more to it
00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:33.830
than just
00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:36.149
>> fear and uh embarrassment?
00:29:36.159 --> 00:29:37.990
>> Yeah, I think that people love coming
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.909
together, but going back to the humanity
00:29:39.919 --> 00:29:43.750
side, to see a really senior executive
00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:46.070
get up on stage and visibly be
00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:49.590
uncomfortable and vulnerable
00:29:49.600 --> 00:29:53.830
is it humanizes them. And I think that
00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:58.710
it is one of the things that people um
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.110
don't talk about enough of, you know,
00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:03.029
the karaoke for causes event that we
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.990
have that's so popular is it is oh my
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.149
gosh, you know, and Lisa Gio, I'll call
00:30:08.159 --> 00:30:09.750
her out because she's just like been
00:30:09.760 --> 00:30:11.750
such a huge supporter and this year we
00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:13.110
will cross a million dollars in
00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:15.269
donations from this just this one event
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:16.470
and it's something that we're super
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.389
proud of, right Matt? like saying going
00:30:18.399 --> 00:30:19.510
back to the business model, it would
00:30:19.520 --> 00:30:20.630
have been really great for me to just
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.389
keep that million dollars and continue
00:30:22.399 --> 00:30:25.590
to build my company, but we choose to go
00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:28.549
out and like support these communities
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.470
who need it. But when you get a person
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.710
like Lisa who's this great senior
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.950
respected person you know up there
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:37.750
singing in French at can or you know uh
00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:39.590
she does this Rick roll thing that I had
00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:41.029
never heard of but maybe you know what
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:42.710
I'm talking about you know where you
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.470
know she always really brings her
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.430
performances um she gives 150%.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.630
>> She's never going to give it up or let
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:49.909
us down. Is that what you're saying?
00:30:49.919 --> 00:30:53.669
>> Never. Yeah. Exactly. But she, you know,
00:30:53.679 --> 00:30:55.909
like I'm sure to people who are not
00:30:55.919 --> 00:30:57.430
exposed to her on a daily basis, it
00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:58.870
humanizes her. You know what I mean? and
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:00.470
they say, "Oh my gosh, she's a fun
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.909
person," which she is, you know, and
00:31:01.919 --> 00:31:03.510
that sort of thing. And so, I think that
00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:05.510
that is one of the added elements to
00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:07.830
karaoke that I think people enjoy on top
00:31:07.840 --> 00:31:09.830
of, you know, a night of drinking and
00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:11.590
free food and all that stuff.
00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:13.750
>> Well, I am I am in when it's back in New
00:31:13.760 --> 00:31:15.669
York or if you need me to step on stage
00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:17.590
and in France and do it and can, I'll do
00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:18.630
it there, too. Um,
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:19.590
>> okay, good to know.
00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:21.110
>> So, thank you for letting me invite
00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:21.669
myself.
00:31:21.679 --> 00:31:24.389
>> Yeah. No, no, no. I you just to change
00:31:24.399 --> 00:31:25.909
gears just a little bit because you're
00:31:25.919 --> 00:31:28.630
also a founder and someone who's built
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:31.029
something that's successful and I that's
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.389
such a small percentage of the
00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:35.269
population have ever done that. So I
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:37.830
want to give you give you uh the credit
00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:40.070
for that. But I'm curious if there's
00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:41.830
something that stands out as you look
00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:44.070
back now. Clearly, you're always looking
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:47.110
ahead, but was there a challenge or like
00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:49.430
what's the hardest thing about building
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:51.430
Gives in, you know, from the ground up
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.190
that people outside the startup world
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.350
may not even realize?
00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:57.190
>> Um, well, first of all, it's my team.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.029
It's not me. Like, I have a very good
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.590
team. Um, and my team is phenomenal and
00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:03.350
the success of this company is really a
00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:06.230
testament to them and I, you know, I do
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.590
not take the credit for that. I just
00:32:07.600 --> 00:32:09.269
come on and say random stuff and, you
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.549
know, people laugh sometimes and
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:11.990
sometimes they don't.
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:12.710
Um
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.230
>> that's leadership by the way. Yeah.
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:16.310
>> Well, but it's it but it's also honesty.
00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:18.549
Um
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.190
>> the thing about being a founder that no
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:24.549
one told me before, but then literally
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:26.870
months into it, I was like, man, this is
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.590
so lonely. This process is so lonely,
00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:31.350
you know, and then founders, you know,
00:32:31.360 --> 00:32:33.190
that I had talked to prior to launch, it
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:34.230
was like, oh yeah, it's like the
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:36.310
loneliest experience that you'll ever.
00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:38.070
And I was like, why didn't you share
00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:39.990
this with me before? you know, I put
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.750
everything I own into this. Um, that was
00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:46.630
the biggest surprise I think for me
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.430
because there's always, I think, an a
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.350
part of the business that you're going
00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:53.350
through or you're thinking about or
00:32:53.360 --> 00:32:55.830
you're worrying about that you either
00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:58.470
can't express fully, you know, to the
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.750
level in in which you're worrying
00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:01.269
because you don't want to like worry
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.750
your other teammates, you know. Um,
00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:05.750
luckily I have some really great people
00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:08.230
that I can be pretty candid with, but
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.310
you know, now that really has alleviated
00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:12.149
that. Plus, my two co-founders are
00:33:12.159 --> 00:33:13.350
great. You know, we've all worked
00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:14.710
together for seven years at this point,
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.990
so we're like family. Um and so from
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.669
that perspective, you know, that
00:33:19.679 --> 00:33:23.269
loneliness or that isolation of the
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.870
process,
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.990
um I say all the time that running your
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.669
own company is not as hard as the mental
00:33:31.679 --> 00:33:33.830
process of running your own company. It
00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:36.470
has taught me so much about myself
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.990
personally than it has in business. Like
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.870
I just I know my triggers more, you
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.549
know. Um
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.549
That is what has been so valuable to me
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.950
is like what I have learned about myself
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.509
and like what I'm willing to have
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.750
boundaries for and what I'm not in my
00:33:55.760 --> 00:33:58.070
personal life um more than my
00:33:58.080 --> 00:34:00.070
professional life which to me has been
00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:01.190
really interesting because the people
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.230
who support you are typically the people
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:06.549
you least expect and the people you
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.790
expect to support you don't. And it's
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.389
also taught me a lot about who's in my
00:34:10.399 --> 00:34:11.750
corner and who I'm going to devote my
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:15.190
time to.
00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:18.550
Well, within this community, right, I
00:34:18.560 --> 00:34:20.869
think there's something to be said about
00:34:20.879 --> 00:34:23.109
people who can relate and find relevance
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:24.470
in the things that we are each
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.310
experiencing. Sometimes they are
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:27.430
similar, sometimes they're different,
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:29.349
but we all need to recognize that we're
00:34:29.359 --> 00:34:30.550
all
00:34:30.560 --> 00:34:32.069
>> going through stuff and there are things
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.149
to celebrate and things to recognize. If
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.349
there was I mean, you I've been to your
00:34:37.359 --> 00:34:39.589
events. you bring together incredible
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:43.030
people um both in in marketing and and
00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:44.470
ad tech and technology, right? If
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.030
there's one piece of advice or something
00:34:47.040 --> 00:34:49.829
that you could share with or for
00:34:49.839 --> 00:34:51.829
marketers trying to build brands that
00:34:51.839 --> 00:34:56.149
matter in the next three to five years,
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.230
is it something that you could
00:34:58.240 --> 00:35:00.710
articulate? Yeah. Pay attention to your
00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:03.910
consumer, not the narrative. like the
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:07.109
narrative from leadership, any sort of
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:08.950
leaders, even if you're sitting within
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.310
an organization that maybe, you know, is
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:14.550
um not following through with previous
00:35:14.560 --> 00:35:17.670
behavior does not reflect what people
00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:19.990
really want. And we see those examples
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.829
all the time. It's like how many more
00:35:21.839 --> 00:35:24.550
times does a brand have to see examples
00:35:24.560 --> 00:35:26.710
from Anthropic and American Eagle and
00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:28.310
Cracker Barrel and then the, you know,
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.150
the default examples of Bud Light and
00:35:30.160 --> 00:35:33.190
Target. Like there's examples all the
00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:36.550
time. And if marketers really don't
00:35:36.560 --> 00:35:38.310
believe that people are feeling this
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:39.829
way, then why not come out and make a
00:35:39.839 --> 00:35:41.190
statement that, hey, we don't need
00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:42.790
multicultural audiences. They're never
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:44.550
going to say that because guess what?
00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:45.990
They know that it's the growth
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.230
audiences. They know that they control,
00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:50.069
you know, more of the spending power,
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:51.750
you know, and those sort of things. And
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.109
so the lack of bravery into making a
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:57.190
statement like that also is a
00:35:57.200 --> 00:35:59.270
justification of how they really know
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:00.950
deep down how their consumers are
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.630
behaving. It's why it scares them so
00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:04.790
much. But look, there comes a point
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.550
where you have to start the journey and
00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:08.710
start figuring it out and looking at the
00:36:08.720 --> 00:36:10.230
data and the signals. And the data and
00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:12.069
the signals is all about going back to
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:13.829
our, you know, original word of
00:36:13.839 --> 00:36:16.630
consistency and knowing who your values
00:36:16.640 --> 00:36:19.430
are and not thinking that it has to be
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:22.870
these um controversial values, you know,
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.190
like who what kind of consumer is going
00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:26.470
to get upset that you're supporting
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.790
childhood cancer or healthy eating?
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.390
Probably not a customer that you really
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.470
want, you know, and you're not going to
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.390
be able to please everyone. You can't be
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.630
all things to all people. So, brands
00:36:36.640 --> 00:36:38.069
have to understand where they're going
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:41.349
to play and where they're not.
00:36:41.359 --> 00:36:43.510
Well, I think that
00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:45.349
kind of hopeful
00:36:45.359 --> 00:36:48.390
outlook that is both grounded in reality
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.750
but gives us some clarity about where we
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:56.390
need to be focusing as an industry is g
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.430
it gives me hope and it gives me you
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.550
know a real sense of belief that
00:37:02.560 --> 00:37:05.109
together if we are aligning on the
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:06.630
things that matter and measuring the
00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:09.430
things that matter and then of working
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:12.470
towards that arc and bending towards
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.390
that light that the role that
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:18.310
advertising and marketing can play um
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.470
really does
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.910
lead us in a positive impactful way. So
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:24.310
>> yeah,
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:25.910
>> thank you for what you're doing. Thank
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:28.870
you for sharing that with us, but also
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:30.870
giving us that platform to do it.
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:32.870
>> Yeah. And I'll I'll leave you with one
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:34.630
comment to and I say this all the time,
00:37:34.640 --> 00:37:36.310
but based on how you just, you know,
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.230
wrapped up the conversation, we're an
00:37:38.240 --> 00:37:40.950
industry built on influence.
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.670
Like we influence consumerism. That's
00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:46.470
why we exist. Why can't we influence
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:49.190
other things? Like it's not that
00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:51.349
difficult. Like this is what we do. We
00:37:51.359 --> 00:37:53.670
market. We get people to do things
00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:55.910
through advertising and marketing. And
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.829
so therefore, we can actually make a
00:37:57.839 --> 00:37:59.430
positive impact on the world with our
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.190
skill set if we just start thinking
00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:04.470
about it a little bit differently.
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.270
Well, thank you, Chad, for this time and
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:11.190
look forward to singing with you or
00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:13.030
around you at some point in the near
00:38:13.040 --> 00:38:15.510
future and um hopefully not embarrassing
00:38:15.520 --> 00:38:16.710
myself for a good Yeah,
00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:18.550
>> for both of us, right? Yeah. No, thank
00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:19.990
you so much. I really appreciate it,
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.480
Matt.