Turning Panic into Planning: Divorce Decisions That Protect the Next Decade

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Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper.
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I'm a mediator and attorney in S in uh California.
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I'm here with Tatiana Sunik.
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Hi, Tatiana.
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How are you?
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Hello there.
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How are you?
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Nice to see you.
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Yes, nice to see you.
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Tatiana had a really, really good idea for a topic to talk about.
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So that's what we're going to talk about.
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And it is basically the short-term panic that people feel when they first are starting the divorce process and versus like the long-term possibility that comes from careful planning during the divorce process when you're negotiating a settlement.
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So a lot of clients that I work with, you know, at the very beginning, they're like one, they might be really focused on the home.
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I just need the home.
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If I get the home, that will be really important.
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That's all I want.
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And they're really like hyper-focused, and they're not taking the time necessarily to take a breath and to look at how that decision or whatever decisions they're making would affect them and their children long term, not just you know, month one, but at year five.
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And Tatiana, that's kind of a niche that Tatiana has in in helping people.
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And Tatiana, like how do you how do you see that um that that place verse where people are are have those short-term goals, but you encourage and they they need to focus on the long term.
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What are your thoughts?
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Right.
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So I think that short-term panic is very natural in divorce, right?
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But it's dangerous.
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So on mediation certainly comes a conflict and you know lets you think clearly.
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So, like, kind of that's where you step in.
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We took a pause and we go into negotiate this, right?
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And the financial guidance gives you like ability to step in and create a roadmap and turning this unknown into more of informed confident decisions.
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And what are we contemplating here?
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How is this going to serve you long term?
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So we are doing this one time, we want to make sure we have a good aim and to take our shot.
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And I think, and a lot of times people just so focus on that immediate, you know, gratification, and they tend to not put the patience into really seeing through what is this gonna look like.
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And I think a lot of it is scary, also to if you think about it, like um, what's the future gonna look like?
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A lot of times it looks looked upon negative, like, oh, I'm gonna not be, you know, set for life or whatever, I'm not gonna have enough to even start somewhere because I'm not earning as much.
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But but I encourage people to look at it from the fear, really set like the perspective to the strategy, all right.
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The fear is is fear, how much of it is real and how much of it is not.
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And let's create a strategy, how are we going to rebuild?
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And I think taking that positive view really does help to really bring the strategies, right?
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For example, like home, is home a good asset to kids?
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Is this the liquidity issue for us?
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Or um how is the alimony gonna look over time?
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And for some individuals who have young kids and they have sort of these long marriages and they still gonna be in the house somehow, right?
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To get these kids out in the school districts.
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So, okay, child support that's given, but what about like maintaining that house uh and the caretaker comfortable so she can do her duty for the kids?
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And sometimes, you know, I I work with high number individuals and they work a lot and they want 50-50 custody.
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Well, let's get real.
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Like you are gonna have it, but you are understanding that the hours that you work and the the time you're putting in the career is gonna really um sort of the the caretaking part is gonna fall more on the styles, right?
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So, yes, let's negotiate like that, but we also wanna be realistic and fair.
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And I think also I know the financial world, I've been in this industry for 23 years, you know, expectation that somebody who's high net worth executives or that sort is gonna be working and earning the amount of money they're earning until 65 is really unrealistic.
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And having someone like an expert to really testify that during divorce is very important because um, you know, there's infidelity, you sort of don't believe anything they say.
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But like I know that the tenure for executives, for example, mid-50s, after that they get pushed out.
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So like don't expect your husband to be this couple million dollar earner, you know, for the 65 age.
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Like this is just the reality of it.
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And when you have again a professional really testify in the way where you really know the space, I think puts a little bit of a pause in the perspective and and that sort of renegotiation angle where, like, well, now I got that uh, you know, spoonful of honesty.
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Let's let me go home and like think on it and sit on it, and like and actually let's like take the back the emotions and let's really, you know, do this right.
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Yeah, I mean, taking back emotions is really important, especially when there's no there's not a lot of trust between spouses in mediating.
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Uh that that's quite that happens all the time.
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So there's not trust, but they want to get through the process in an amicable, you know, fair way, and then not to spend, you know, exorbitant amount of money.
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Um you probably do something more of a collaboration, right?
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Instead of like winning today approach, I would think.
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Yeah, no, absolutely.
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It's it's it's all about like give and take.
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And I have a client right now that's really interesting what you said is that there's also a math answer to a lot of these questions.
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And if you take a breath and you allow that math to be written out, so I have a client right now where the the higher earning spouse, the one that's that executive type that you just mentioned, in their early 50s, they want to do a buyout of spousal support.
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So they want to give all the money, you know, up front.
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And um and and the other spouse doesn't trust anything that they have to offer.
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So they immediately reject it.
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Um, but if you do the math on what was actually offered, if they would allow the, if they would allow, like they won't take it, they they won't allow that math to like enter their brain.
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It's just an emotional response.
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But that math shows that this is why this would be better for you long term, based on the based on um, you know, what the reality is of their situation.
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And emotions come into this, but you also, you know, so working with someone like you that not only can help them understand like you've been there, you've done that, you have this experience, um, and you're and you're on their side, but in a mediation, really it's a delicate balance.
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It's really helping them let like you run the numbers, you show them long term what's happening, and um, and avoid those short-term decisions.
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Like, I hate I hate with structuring settlements where one person gives up all the cash that they could possibly give up in exchange for the home.
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And it just always makes me so nervous.
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Definitely quite for that, you know, long term.
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It just is not a it's doesn't usually work out financially.
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What are your thoughts about that?
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Just that one issue.
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Well, I think that whole survival mode is very real, and you know, I try to shift it to a strategic planning.
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And actually, some people feel like they are strategically planning, but they're not, they're shooting just like an arrows in the dark, and they say, Well, I don't think it's enough, I don't think it's fair, but like, have you compared it to have you done a financial plan?
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And a lot of times I hear like he's gonna take care of me.
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He said, like, what is the number to take care of you?
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Have you run a financial planning projection to understand what money do you need to endow your portfolio?
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I work with some clients who's uh who have some real estate and they say, Well, I want to keep the house, he can have another property.
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Like, well, that properties produces an income.
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It's an income-producing property.
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And you take in a property that's you're gonna have to feed, right?
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You have to, you know, live there, you have to take care of the house, you have to pay the taxes.
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So you're having like that, you know, cash cow and he he's having an income asset.
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So like that has to make sense.
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Then then let's just structure it a little bit differently.
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If you feel like you need the house, then this is the consequences, uh, maybe for immediate term for five years.
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But remember, if you sell the house before marriage, you could actually share a lot of costs and all the um uh the percentages that you have to do, the fees, right?
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Before that.
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And and it could be split between two parties.
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If you if you sell it after, then you are responsible for all it.
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And they're like, oh.
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And you know, in in New Jersey, for example, uh estate, they have the sales tax right now, which is 17%, which is the seller's thing.
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That's a quite a hefty percentage for it, just you know, just to give up.
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So make sure you really think about the strategy.
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If you want to keep the house, is it is the house going to get you bankrupt?
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Can you afford to keep the house?
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If you're not if you're if you if you keep the house in that sort of situation, and then four years later you have to sell it, that's a huge, huge financial loss.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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No matter how much the house goes up, if it does, just because just because those costs of the sale and the tax liability.
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Yeah.
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Plus, like you could have done with that money and put it somewhere else, and maybe it will make you a better return than that house.
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So yeah, it's it's certainly interesting, but you can't look on the style just in the house.
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You really do want to see everything else.
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So it's like retirement, right?
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If if there is not much room to work with, you have like a house and retirement assets, like that's something creates per creative solutions or alum money.
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Is uptron better than in 10 years?
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Well, I've seen some people like, oh, I want to give her uptron to everything.
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So that pauses me a little bit.
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Why do they want to give the Allen money all at once?
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Is there something's happening in the business down the line that they don't negotiate?
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Which is fine, but we want to make sure then if we do and there's a discount on the table to negotiate, you know, for her to take bump sum, what is the number we're using for discount?
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And is this fair?
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And you need to know the full story too.
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And sometimes there's lots of nuances, yeah.
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Lots of nuances.
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You know, um, I'm also uh when someone's proposing a buyout and pushing for it, you know, the the question is like the why.
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It's always important to know.
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And if the why is um that um, and if they're being genuine, hopefully, but if they have to exchange funds on a monthly basis, they think that it will ruin their the relationship that they have and their co-parenting versus if they could just get that off the table up front.
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I mean, I hear that sometimes, and that's a legitimate reason.
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Uh, but yeah, no, you have to you have to definitely be on uh you know your toes when you're doing any major decision.
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And one thing you said, Tatiana, is this is like a one-time decision.
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Like asset division is like you got one shot at this, unless it's a very rare case.
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So you have one chance.
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So don't rush through, don't let your emotions take you through.
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Let your brain work and get help from a professional that can project forward and and give you that um, you know, that that long-term expectation that la and that understanding.
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I think it's just hugely, hugely important and beneficial.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I lost the old say the real estate market definitely is interesting and calls for creative solution, like refinancing mortgages, it becomes a whole new mortgage.
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It's expensive.
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And in some cases, you have four or five years left in a mortgage.
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You can work something out, right?
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Then this money can go to kids, then given it to a big institution in the black hole.
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So, like mindful of this, right?
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If you don't trust her to pay the mortgage, but want her to keep her, can you still get the second mortgage?
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When you say no, hold on, have you done the homework?
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Have you even tried?
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Like, it's worth a try because then her her alimone that you're paying, covered a quarter will go to that mortgage that she's gonna reassume, right?
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But why not have her do that for the kids, right?
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Something like that, because it's all the money they've created over the long term in the family to family.
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I love that exactly.
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In the family, don't like let it out to left and right mortgage companies.
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And it's not just burning it on attorneys or professionals.
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I mean, look, that's that that's a those are you valuable uses of money.
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I believe in mediation, but so professionals during the divorce process, that's not burning money in my mind.
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What's burning money is not doing the planning.
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And like you said, why give Chase Bank, you know, over the course of 10 years an additional 200 grand when you could keep it in the family?
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Exactly.
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Uh so getting that expertise and that consultation, that that someone on your side that can help you uh through that.
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And then, of course, they have to make you know mutual decisions to stay on a loan or to keep a loan intact and things like that.
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That's uh those are always decisions that they have to come to together.
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So hopefully they have someone that's helping them work together, keep the family together, uh, just in a different way.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I think you're doing a great job of that.
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So yeah, this was great though.
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Um, can you tell uh folks uh where you are, how you work, where you can work, all those details?
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Yes.
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So I am in Metro Arab, New York.
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I am a CFP certified financial planner, and I'm also CDFA certified divorced financial analyst.
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I've been in wealth management space for 23 years, divorced myself for 11.
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I've helped numerous individuals and families through this process.
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This is not the only um business sort of in my value proposition.
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I also work with normal intact families as well.
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I'm for keeping the family, but if there's an alternative of not to, you know, I tend to help as well.
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And I I work with many states.
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It's not particularly bonded to New Jersey or New York or Connecticut because I am not an attorney.
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So I'm not licensed uh with my divorce consulting work just to one state.
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So I'm open to many states.
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So someone in California could call you, someone in Florida.
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I have some time.
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Okay, great.
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Yeah, I mean, I know Tatiana well.
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Um, just really, really a valuable resource, someone that's very genuine, very smart.
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So I can't say enough good things about you.
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And I love the topic, and I really hope that people, you know, really take the time to project forward.
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That's the that's the key to a successful outcome.
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And then if you get that advice and you get those um uh that guidance and you make those decisions, then hopefully, you know, 11 years later, nine years later, whatever it is, when you take that breath and you don't have that regret that you didn't what could have been or what should have been, that you've done your planning now and and and you'll be able to live forward because you know that regret, that feeling is really can eat away at people.
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So um, you know, get the guidance while things are going on because it's a one time shot at that asset division.
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But uh thank you so much, Tatiana.
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Thank you, Scott, for having me and great to be partnering with them.