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In this episode, Luigi, Mike and Andrew are joined by Elliot Christensen, Senior Vice President of Operations at Cleveland Construction.
The conversation starts with Cleveland’s approach to technology adoption and why labor shortages are pushing contractors to think differently about efficiency, self-perform work, and repeatable scopes. Elliot shares how Cleveland is evaluating vertical integration, where CM fees are headed, and why design-build may create better alignment between owners, architects, engineers, and GCs.
The group then gets into Cleveland’s move from Procore to Autodesk. Elliot explains why the decision was driven less by product issues and more by cost, pricing structure, platform breadth, and Autodesk’s connection to the design ecosystem. The conversation also covers what Procore could do differently, why bundled platforms are attractive to contractors, and how Autodesk’s design-build-operate strategy may play out.
The second half focuses on Cleveland’s technology stack and startup adoption. Elliot explains why Cleveland is all in on Trunk Tools, where OpenSpace, Box AI, Breadcrumb, and Autodesk fit, and how AI agents could change the way project managers work. The episode closes with a rapid-fire round on overhyped categories, software buying advice, and why construction software fails when the field does not buy in.
Takeaways
- Cleveland moved from Procore to Autodesk primarily because of cost structure and platform economics
- Autodesk’s advantage is its connection to design, build, and operate workflows
- Contractors are under pressure to do more with lower CM fees
- Point solutions are harder to justify unless they solve several problems well
- Cleveland is betting heavily on Trunk Tools for drawings, RFIs, submittals, and construction-specific AI
- Box AI is useful for internal experimentation because the data is already there and the cost is capped
- AI agents may eventually shift project managers from managing paperwork to managing workflows and exceptions
- Field adoption is still the hardest part of construction software
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Cleveland Construction’s approach to tech
01:17 Labor shortages and the need for efficiency
02:37 Self-perform work and repeatable scopes
04:41 Declining CM fees and vertical integration
05:08 Why design-build may win
08:10 Takeoffs, BIM, and risk transfer
15:38 Cleveland’s move from Procore to Autodesk
18:37 The cost savings behind the switch
19:11 Autodesk vs. Procore functionality
20:36 What keeps Cleveland on Autodesk long term
23:42 Autodesk’s design-build-operate advantage
27:57 What Procore should change
34:13 Why contractors cannot afford too many point solutions
36:51 Cleveland’s Trunk Tools bet
38:25 OpenSpace, Breadcrumb, Box AI, and Cleveland’s core stack
41:03 Token spend and capped AI costs
43:51 Why Trunk Tools is different from horizontal AI tools
47:53 Could Autodesk catch up on AI?
50:24 Project managers managing agents
52:33 Startup opportunities in quality control
55:22 Rapid fire: overhyped categories, pilots, and software buying advice
