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Why do so many self-aware people still find themselves stuck in the same relationship patterns?
In this conversation, Forest sits down with Jessica Fern (author of Polysecure) and David Cooley (co-author of Polywise) to explore their groundbreaking framework, The Shame Triangle—a practical model for understanding how shame, self-criticism, and coping strategies quietly shape our relationships, emotional well-being, and sense of self.
Together they unpack parts work, Internal Family Systems (IFS), spirituality, attachment wounds, conflict, self-love, and the hidden ways shame keeps us disconnected from ourselves and the people we care about most. They also share personal stories about divorce, conscious relationships, monogamy, non-monogamy, and the lifelong journey of healing.
If you've ever wondered why awareness alone isn't enough to create lasting change, this episode offers a compassionate roadmap for transforming shame into deeper self-acceptance, connection, and intimacy.
Topics include: shame, parts work, Internal Family Systems (IFS), attachment, trauma healing, relationship conflict, self-love, spirituality, emotional regulation, conscious relationships, monogamy, non-monogamy, and personal growth.
LINKS
- the Conscious Couple 4 month course: consciousrelating.org/the-conscious-couple
- Purchase the Book: jessicafern.com/books
- Shame Triangle Course: theazuriteway.com
- Dave's Website: restorativerelationship.com
- Ask Dave & Jess Show: linktr.ee/AskJessandDave
- Couple's Sessions: consciousrelating.org/coaching
- Join the Newsletter: subscribepage.io/consciousrelating
CHAPTERS
00:00 Shame, Intimacy & Why This Conversation Matters
Forest shares his personal experience with shame, emotional triggers, and how shame can quietly interfere with intimacy.
05:15 Why Jessica Fern & David Cooley Wrote Transforming the Shame Triangle
The inspiration behind the book and why shame became the missing piece in so much healing and relationship work.
11:00 Why Self-Aware People Still Get Stuck
The hidden role shame plays in blocking accountability, growth, emotional availability, and relationship repair.
17:30 Spirituality, Consciousness & Relationships as a Path of Growth
Jessica and David share how they define spirituality, consciousness, and personal evolution.
28:00 Parts Work, IFS & Self-Leadership
What Internal Family Systems teaches about parts, Self energy, and healing internal conflict.
40:00 Why Parts Work Actually Works
How identifying different parts of ourselves creates more choice, emotional regulation, and resilience.
49:00 Understanding the Shame Triangle
The Inner Critic, Shame, and Escaper—and how these three forces keep us trapped in repeating patterns.
1:02:00 How Shame Shows Up in Everyday Life
Jessica shares a powerful story illustrating how even success and positive experiences can trigger shame.
1:10:00 From the Shame Triangle to the Self-Love Triangle
How compassion, curiosity, and self-leadership transform shame into healing.
1:17:00 Autoimmune Illness, Stress & Emotional Health
Exploring the relationship between shame, chronic stress, inflammation, and mind-body healing.
1:25:00 Divorce, Conscious Relationships & Authentic Relating
Jessica and David share how they transitioned from marriage to a new form of partnership.
1:34:00 Forest's Journey from Relationship Anarchy to Conscious Exclusivity
A candid discussion about monogamy, non-monogamy, emotional intimacy, identity, and authenticity.
1:47:00 Practical Wisdom for Healing Shame
Key takeaways, resources, and where to learn more about Transforming the Shame Triangle.
Music Credits
https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/dreamstate
License code: YTLHO7DQH73KDCKC
https://uppbeat.io/t/jeff-kaale/new-chapter
License code: 8U4D1JARWUZ8WEYO
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