A Repeatable Podcast Plan Beats Ad Hoc Posting

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My first podcast was in 2019.
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At that time, I ran a speaker training business.
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It was part-time.
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I was still working full-time in broadcasting, but I really loved the public speaking world.
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And I always wanted to take that business full time.
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At some point, I knew I had to start a podcast.
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It took me a while, but it eventually led me to the space.
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And I'm so glad I did that.
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Our guest today has a very similar journey.
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Even though we're in two different parts of the world, we have very similar stories, as you're going to find out.
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Darren Saul is a serial podcaster, strategist, trainer, coach, keynote speaker, and a student of human attention.
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Years ago, he was burnt out and he was looking for new ways to market his recruitment and photography business.
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And that's when he discovered podcasting.
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And he was all in from that point.
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If you fast forward to today, he's now a podcast junkie who loves teaching others what he's learned through his podcasting journey.
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He now helps coaches and consultants build trust and get results using his three-step, his three-part podcast marketing system that removes any confusion and overwhelm.
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So we'll be talking about that today for sure.
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He's a sought-after podcast guest.
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He is a podcaster.
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We are so glad he is here today.
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Darren Saul, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you for having me, Carl.
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I feel like I'm talking to my mirror image um profile all the way from the US white mirror, um, but close enough.
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Like it's we're not doppelgangers, by the way.
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You'll notice that if you look at the artwork in the with the episode, uh, Darren and I look nothing alike, we just do very similar things.
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And what's ironic is which I I felt this quite amusing too.
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You started your podcast journey in 2019.
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I started my podcasting journey in 2019.
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So maybe we are like brothers from another mother in that sense.
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I don't know.
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Love that, love that, and that's interesting.
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Why did you start in 2019?
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What what prompted you?
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Oh my goodness.
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So wait a minute, I'm the interviewer.
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Wait a minute, wait a minute.
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You're you're flipping the script here.
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I'm just kidding, Darren.
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I have no issues answering that question.
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Uh, it's funny because when I came into podcasting, I and I've told this story a few times, but why not share it here again?
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I was introduced to podcasting by a friend, a colleague actually, in 2012.
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I was between radio jobs and I had launched a part-time speaker training business.
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And he at one point came up to me and said, Oh, you're a speaker trainer, you should have a podcast.
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In 2012, I was in Toastmasters.
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I if I had employment, I was it was part-time doing, I don't know, something.
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And I remember saying, a podcast, what's that?
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Even after he explained it, I still wasn't convinced that I should be doing a podcast.
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So it took until 2019 to launch my show, and I had that part-time business doing speaker training.
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And I felt that if I wanted to be seen as the expert, I needed to position myself in that podcasting space.
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It took that many years to be convinced I needed a podcast.
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So what was that, seven years?
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But after that, there was no looking back.
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And I had my some of my earlier episodes.
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We talked about stage fright.
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Um, we talked about positioning yourself as an expert speaker.
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What are some content strategies, positioning yourself on stage, a voice and vocal variety?
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And that was the beginning for me.
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So that's why I launched it.
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Was um, they say that 20, 30 years ago, if you wanted to be seen as an expert, you'd write a book.
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And people still write books today for that reason.
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Now it's do you have a podcast?
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Because that seems to be the the metric for success.
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How about yourself?
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What brought you into podcasting?
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Yeah, it's pretty much the same.
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I it's funny that 2019, 2020 seemed to be the rebirth of podcasting in a way.
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Because of the pandemic, everybody started grabbing the gear that allowed them to build their home studio.
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The gear became available, it was cost effective.
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And then everybody was jumping on the podcast bandwagon.
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So there were videos and audio podcasts all over the place.
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And it was kind of just that time when I thought, you know what, there has to be a better way.
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I started to get into digital marketing and digital and social as opposed to traditional marketing methods, you know, because the old way of cold calling and letter drops and simple uh business development methodologies weren't working as well.
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It just seemed to be the culmination of digital and social.
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So I thought, you know what, let's give it a go.
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And I started two podcasts, actually, one for my recruitment business and one for my photography business.
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And uh it's just been again, like you, no, no looking back.
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I love it.
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I'm obsessed.
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It's hook, I'm hooked.
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And um, I think that it's just been a great honeymoon period in a way, those these last four or five years for podcasting.
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And I don't think it's going anywhere, it's just getting more and more mature.
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I usually ask that question at the end where do you see podcasts going in the next five years or so?
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But you're right, I think there's a certain maturity, it's it's all grown up now, but it's almost like it's gone from being, you know, an infant to an adolescent to a teenager to now it's grown up, it's it's entering a different phase, and there's no better time.
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People say, What when's the best time to start a podcast?
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Oh, 2010, 2008, somewhere around there.
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Next best time is now because there's so many things happening in the space that you know you and I know because we're in it, but there's you know, even the movement from audio only to video, with video rearing its head and not taking over, but certainly making it relevant in the podcasting space and the content creation space, uh, is huge.
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So, of all things though, what led you down the training path?
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Because there are a lot of podcast trainers out there, but none of them are created equally.
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Like everyone does something different, or they got they got a methodology.
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But what was it about the training piece that made you go, huh?
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I can make a difference here.
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I've always loved teaching.
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Like I teach photography.
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Um, I I train photography a couple of days every month.
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I love conveying knowledge and my expertise and the things I've learned in the trenches over the years.
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And so as I was podcasting more and more and building my episodes and building my experience, I thought, you know what?
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There's lots of people, even my guests, that kept asking, you know, how do you start a podcast?
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What's podcasting like?
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Why do you do it?
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And I thought there's got to be an opportunity here for me to start actually teaching people and training people that need help and don't have to recreate the wheel.
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They can, you know, come on and learn from all my mistakes over the last five, six years and jump six years ahead.
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So I thought it's a no-brainer.
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I've got to start teaching and training in podcasting.
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And so I've just done a lot of that and doing more and more all the time.
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It's one of those things that, even though I alluded to the fact there are a lot of podcast trainers and coaches out there, and there are there, and there seem to be more and more popping up every day.
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Uh, it's the one piece that if I could suggest the first thing that somebody does before they launch a podcast, we have to think about starting a podcast, get the training because you don't know what you don't know.
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And just because you listen to podcasts doesn't mean you know how to do it.
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I've listened to radio my whole life.
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That doesn't mean I am a successful broadcaster, but that doesn't mean that before taking broadcasting school and learning the ins and outs of the industry that I was suited to be a broadcaster.
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It takes the training, it takes understanding.
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Also, if you're a consumer, you don't know or you don't appreciate the back end work.
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Yes.
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If you're listening to Joe Rogan or if you're listening to Grant Cardoni or any of those top thought leader type podcasts, they've already paved their way.
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They've already paid their dues, they've they've made a name for themselves, they have a team behind them making them successful.
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If you're starting out, if you're Darren Saul or Carl Richards, even with our experience in other things, you're gonna need to work your ass off within those first 10, 15, 20, 30 episodes for it to move the needle, even just a little bit.
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100%.
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And I always say to me, like you, why would you start from the beginning when you can jump start that by five, six years very cost effectively, and just start with all that knowledge straight off the bat?
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It doesn't make sense to me.
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Why would you?
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Why would you do it all again and and hit your head against the wall until you get there?
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In your experience, and again, we do similar things.
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This is why I'm asking you to, you know, from your perspective, and we're also in different parts of the world, by the way.
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I'm in Canada, you're in Australia.
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We can tell by the accents that we're in different parts of the world if you're listening somewhere going, those are two very interesting accents that I'm hearing.
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Um, but what is it in your experience that podcasters are missing the mark on?
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What's the one thing if if you can narrow it to one thing?
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What are they missing the mark on?
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For me, it's it's marketing and leverage.
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Leverage is the big word for me, actually, leverage.
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But when I when I say leverage, it leverage it from the perspective of marketing and really using all that content, all that hard work, and doing something with it that's gonna bring you results, not just doing it because it's fun and it's you know, we had a lovely podcast episode, we had a laugh, we could share a video, but so what?
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There's gotta be more to it, you've got to do more with it, otherwise you're just wasting all that energy and time and money.
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Well, and we're at a point, too, where if you're only putting it out there once, you know, if you're only posting it to YouTube and praying that the YouTube gods will shine down on you and make this conversation the one that goes viral, good luck with that.
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Uh, or if you're hoping that you know Facebook's having a good day and likes you and it's going to change the algorithm in your favor that day, um, think again.
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Like there's there's many different things that you know you need to put be putting yourself out there consistently.
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I was gonna say constantly, but consistently, but you also need to repurpose that content in many different ways.
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What uh what are some of the things I know you have a three-step process or a simple system, and I'll I'll have you talk about that for sure.
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But what are some easy things, even before we get to that simple three-step system?
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What are some easy things that should be, we'll call them no-brainers that people should do for themselves without even that three-step system to get that marketing wheel started?
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Well, the first thing is um take a step right back and make sure that you understand that this is gonna be a system, as you say.
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This is gotta be a consistent system.
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You've got to come up with a plan and have a repeatable methodology or system for what you're gonna do with each episode every single time, and just put it on repeat, whether it's manual or automated or hybrid.
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That's the key at number one.
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So you've got to make sure that this is not gonna be an ad hoc um exercise.
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This has got to be a system that you've got to put in place every single time you do a podcast.
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So that's number one, and number two is leverage, as I say.
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So you've got all this amazing footage in long form, you've got a video in long form, you've got an audio file in long form.
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Now you can convert that into, I call them my five pieces of content, my five forms of content.
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So I break them down into audio, video, written, graphic, and photo.
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And you can extract all that stuff with the help of amazing tools these days using AI.
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They're just popping up more and more now, making our lives much easier.
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Doing all this stuff on autopilot and extracting all that great gold, turning the long form into short form, and as you say, repurposing and repackaging constantly to keep that message fresh, that material fresh and slightly different, but have a consistent system whereby it's showing up all the time.
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And that's a really big one.
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A couple of other hacks, jump on Facebook groups to garner some more awareness.
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Tag as much as you can.
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Hashtag, put little things like messaging in your last episode in your email signature.
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Think like a marketer, think like where where does my audience live and where can I show up and put my message to make sure that I drive people to me?
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Use your EDM, your newsletter, whatever it is.
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So just try and leverage and repackage.
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And the last thing I'll say on that is I like to think of it like cooking.
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You've got all those pieces of ingredients, and just like you have five ingredients when you cook, you can make lots of different dishes.
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You can do exactly the same with your podcast material.
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You don't have to produce the same type of thing.
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Grab all your material, put it in a nice folder, and then every morning think, all right, what am I going to do with this today?
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Let's build that, take that, and that, and build, put it in into this, and take that tomorrow and turn it into this and keep it really fresh and varied, and that can already go a long way.
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Those are all very good points, and I'm glad that you share them.
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I think I think going into the plan and knowing where you want to go with this, I think is is always job one.
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And if we don't, then you're gonna have a very hard time uh marketing your show, right?
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So really going in thinking, okay, what is the plan?
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That's why when, and and I'm assuming we're cut from a similar piece of cloth, when we do when we meet with prospects, well, we'll ask them right out the gate, what's your podcast going to be about?
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What's the goal?
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Yeah, what's the result you want to get from your show?
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What is it that you're hoping to achieve?
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And and we'll even go steps further and say, okay, well, what type of show is it going to be?
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Do you will you have guests?
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Are you flying solo?
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Are you is it going to be a co-hosting situation?
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Like would you will you do round robin discussions?
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Is the documentary tile stuff?
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Because there's there are so many different styles, and not one size fits all, but all sizes might affect your strategy for marketing.
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I also like how you said there's more than one tool that you should be looking at.
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You should be looking at, as you said, you said visual, video, audio, photo, graphic, and a few other things there too.
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I I like that.
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We focus a lot on organic marketing, and it's the one thing that that floors me is, and we have a checklist for people to help people on their way, the aha moments that we get from people when they go, huh?
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I never thought of putting the link to my podcast in my email signature.
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Or I never thought to make sure that it's in my speaker bio when I'm speaking on stages and I'm being introduced by the MC that it should say, I'm the host of the blank blank podcast.
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I never thought about not just having it on my website, but yes, having it as a separate tab on my website.
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Because that's the other thing, because I we work with clients where it gets buried through a resources tab, and then it's under a blog tab, and then it doesn't get the traction, right?
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You can't even find it.
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Um so thank you for sharing those insights.
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What are some of the what are some of the things that you're finding, some of the challenges that people are having when it comes to marketing?
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You shared what's what what the the processes are.
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Is it the time piece where they're they're oh my god, how am I going to do all this marketing?
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Is it simplifying?
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Is it following the process, the the simple system?
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What is it that you're finding?
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Kind of a combination of all of those.
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I'm definitely finding that people don't know where to start, number one.
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As you said earlier, they're not thinking like marketers to say, where should this even exist?
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As you said before, when I teach people, I say, take a little 20 or 30 second trailer, you're you'll your key moment from the episode.
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That could be a video that you pop on social media and then link back to your podcast, your full podcast.
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I can't tell you how many times people say, Oh my God, I didn't even think of that.
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That is like the most basic step one marketing methodology.
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But as you say, people are just not thinking sometimes in that way.
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And that's just because they're doing other things and they're great at what they do, and we do what we do.
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It's thinking like a marketer, number one.
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But a lot of time, it's the time, and a lot of people think, oh my God, it's gonna take me loads of time to edit this, and I don't have the energy, and I don't have the know-how, and I don't have the tools.
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So that's another one that they uh that they worry about.
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A lot of people don't even know, they say, should I have video?
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Should I have audio?
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Can I not have video?
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So we go through a lot of that as well.
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So it's a combination of all those things.
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It's really just the unknown.
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If we take it right back to the beginning, it's just the unknown of the whole world of the underbelly of podcasting.
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But once you explain it, it's all really simple.
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.799
And there's lots of great tools and workflows and AI-driven stuff now that make all that really easy.
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.639
And you can outsource it to teams that are really great as well, which is what I do.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.519
So it's really not hard, but it's just the unknown.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:45.200
It's like it's you know, just like anything.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.600
You know, you got to dive in and work out what it's about.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.519
I think you definitely need to do that dive, and you need to you need to figure that out.
00:16:51.519 --> 00:17:00.559
And I I also like that you and I both are are doing what we're doing because we believe that you shouldn't do this alone, right?
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:10.960
You you shouldn't be trying to figure this all out on your own, especially if you're if you're a seven-figure income earner, you shouldn't be hauled off in your basement on weekends trying to figure out how to do all this back-end work for yourself.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:17.839
Yeah, there's some great tools out there, but you should be hiring, you know, either Darren or myself to help you um figure it out.
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:24.559
You know, we we run a full service production and and marketing agency to help people do just that.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.920
You're doing coaching and training and and marketing strategies as well.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:36.400
So, so it's about leveraging, as you say, to get all of that stuff done so you don't have to figure it out.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:37.759
Yeah, do the fun stuff.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:43.119
You need to know your plan or your team needs to know the plan, but you shouldn't be doing it yourself.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:43.599
100%.
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.759
Yeah, do the fun stuff, do the stuff you love.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:54.559
Yeah, talk to people, use your contacts and your leverage your network, which is what you know what you've built over the years, and let someone else worry about all the back end.
00:17:54.559 --> 00:18:09.359
Like I I outsource my production now to a great team that I built um of VAs or virtual podcast audio engineers and video engineers, and they're fantastic, and they do a much better job than me, and it just takes all the work from me as well.
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:10.160
So they're great.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.960
As much as I love editing, because again, that one of the things we did in radio all the time was edit.
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.599
First, it was on real-to-reel tape, by the way.
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:18.880
Wow, no way.
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:20.799
Which thank God we don't do that anymore.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:21.519
Oh my god.
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:32.720
And then digital, but even still, it's just there's so many other things that I can do with my time, and I can be, you know, be that person that's doing the education and training and speaking, which I know you love to do as well.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:42.240
Uh, that to eat to even think about being in the studio, unless I'm unless I'm like, you know what, that that conversation I had with Darren, I have to edit that because it was so much fun doing it.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.000
I just want to hear it again as putting it together.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.000
So much fun and so much gold.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.559
And yeah.
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:48.480
But for the most part, it's no.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:56.640
No, the the CEO of McDonald's isn't the one typically, I'll say, typically, standing behind the grill cooking the burgers.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:04.799
No, they're the ones that are going this going out and speaking on stages and and visiting communities and building, continuing to build uh an empire.
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:15.599
So it's 2025 with the recording of this podcast, and you've been around in the podcasting space for we're going on six years, almost seven years, entering that time.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:20.240
You love podcasting, you're probably going to keep going in that direction.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:31.279
We already figured out it's maturing, but what are some other things that you think are going to pop up in the podcasting space that uh that we're not seeing today, but we're likely going to see in the future?
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.640
There's a couple of things.
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:38.160
It the maturity, general maturity of podcasting, definitely, and probably as well.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:46.319
A lot of people starting to use podcasting as a tool and then offering all sorts of other services on the back end.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.680
And we were kind of talking about this before we jumped on and recorded today.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:20:05.200
So I think people are going to start expanding how they can use podcasting as a and as an initial tool, but as a or the spearhead to another whole set of suite of services and and products that they can build around it.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.799
So that's definitely one of them.
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:11.440
And it kind of feeds into my second one, which is podcast monetization.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:16.319
I think a lot of people are now have been podcasting for quite some time.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.680
It's no longer about should you podcast?
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.359
It's more about what are you going to do with the podcast now?
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.200
Like what's the next level?
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.119
How are we going to monetize it?
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.519
And I like to talk about monetization in terms of direct and indirect.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:40.240
So unless you're Joe Rogan or some really big podcaster, you're probably not going to get make a million dollars out of direct monetization and sponsorships.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.559
But you can do a lot of great work with indirect monetization.
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:55.519
And when I say indirect, I mean building all sorts of services and products and revenue opportunities on the back of that audience that you're building.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:04.400
So we're giving some stuff for free, but then you can do all sorts of other stuff that's paid that allows your audience to take it further with you.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:09.359
And that I think that's where it's going to go now because people are realizing it takes time, takes energy.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.720
You've got to buy tools, you can't just keep doing all this for free.
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:18.400
And it feeds into the full marketing strategy of our business and our what we want to achieve anyway.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:19.920
So I think that's where it's going to go.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:24.480
It's going to be how do we leverage it and monetize it in the most creative way we can.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:35.119
I'm glad you shared that because I've been saying that for quite a while now, at least the last two or three years, that you know, we're heading into the point where the show is still important, but it's about after the show.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:46.079
It's about the green room conversations, it's about the bonus content, it's about the early releases, it's about the communities, the meetups, the the programs, the other services, even the swag.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.880
There are some podcasters who have swag for their show.
00:21:48.880 --> 00:22:08.319
Like they've they've hit that point where they've got hats and t shirts and buttons, and it's all little pieces that go beyond that that stereotypical way that we market or sorry, the Sorry, that we monetize with paid ads and sponsors, which for those who have done it will say, Well, that's fun for the first five dollars, and that's all I got last year, right?
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:19.359
So it's not, it's it's not there, are many other strategies that are available to us, and those are the ones that I think people will gravitate to because which is easier, Darren?
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:37.359
I know you know the answer, going to a business and saying, give me 10, 15, 20,000 to sponsor my podcast, or building your audience and saying, Hey, if you each give me five dollars a month, you'll get the release early, or you'll get this bonus content every month from me, whatever it is, which is easier.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.079
And then there's so much more as well.
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:57.839
The more you establish yourself as a credible force in your field, you will start being asked to speak and do workshops and do keynotes and do consulting, and all the money and and revenue that comes off the back of that is again monetization from your podcast.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:04.000
As you say, offering people extra resources and different things off the back of what they already know.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:09.759
So, all there's all these opportunities to take it further, not with everybody, but with those people that want to.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.839
And the others get your your free stuff.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.119
So it's it's a win-win.
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:14.000
I love it, Darren.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.440
This has been a great conversation.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.599
I could talk to you all day.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.359
I won't, but I could.
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:24.880
But I know you have something very special you'd like to pass on to the audience, and it's your what is it, a seven-day challenge?
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:26.799
Yeah, my seven-day podcast challenge.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:27.680
So I appreciate that.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:28.079
Thank you.
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:40.400
So if anybody's thinking about podcasting and not quite sure what to do and why, and testing out the waters and dipping your toe in, I've got a free seven-day challenge.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.240
It's fully automated.
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:46.240
You'll get seven days, and I'll give you a little uh hint.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.319
You actually get an eighth-day bonus as well.
00:23:48.319 --> 00:24:02.160
So you get eight days of content for free, which puts you in the right mindset, gives you some tools and guides and checklists and all sorts of other great information to help you start your podcast or think about starting your podcast.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:06.000
So that I'll give you the link and you can jump on and you know start that whenever you like.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:12.799
And we'll make sure that is in the show notes as well as Darren's other ways to connect with him, social handles, all that stuff.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.839
Oh my goodness, Darren, it's been an amazing conversation.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.680
I'm glad we spent the time together today.
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:24.880
Before I turn you loose, though, to go either coach someone in podcasting or record another podcast episode, because that's what we do as podcasters.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.559
I'll leave you with the final thought.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.200
Awesome.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:37.519
Well, again, further, like in line with what we've been discussing, is be curious and dive in and just start understanding what it's all about.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:45.440
Lift the bonnet on podcasting because a lot of people will be listening to this and they'll think, oh, yeah, it sounds all great, but too hard.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.039
I don't understand it.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.160
Forget about it.
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.039
And they'll be saying the same thing five years later when maybe underneath they really wanted to do something.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:25:13.440
So lift the bonnet, do the first thing to just try and understand what it's about and do the free challenge, talk to Carl, Google search podcasting, do whatever it is that you need to do just to start educating yourself, and you'll realize that it's really simple underneath, underneath, and it's a lot of fun, and it's not as hard as you think.
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.279
Darren, that's a great place to leave it.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:17.839
Darren Sol, thank you so much for being my guest today.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.720
Thank you, Carl.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.599
My absolute pleasure.