64 - Chicks In Construction
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Mikki Paradis: [00:00:00] Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise. This is my amazing co-host.
Jessica Abreu: Hi, I'm Jessica Abreu.
Mikki Paradis: And this podcast really just exists to help people learn from other people's mistakes, construction edition.
Mm-hmm. It's like true crime, constructure- construction edition. We wanna help you, the homeowner, or you, the future homeowner, or you, the person who's d- about to deal with a new roof or a new hot water heater or just some general shenanigans. We wanna help you know kinda what's normal and what's not normal, and what to expect and what, w- when, when something comes upon you that you know is out of sorts, that you have kinda the skills and the know-how to say- Mm
"Mm, no, I saw that." Yep, that's- These two chicks.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah, that's a red flag.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I am a licensed general contractor, but more so I have been a [00:01:00] drywall and paint contractor for 22 years, so that's my credential. Now, you might think, "Pfft," to those credential. That's fine. That's fine. You, um, if, if you're in that category, I say go to TikTok and join the comments, 'cause that's where there's a lot of guys named Bob-
or Jim or Joe- Or Chuck ... Chuck, Jimmy, Billy. They be up in them comments just discrediting my credentials all day long. So, join 'em on the Tok. And where can they find us, Jess, on the Tok?
Jessica Abreu: We're @ChicksInConstruction.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, so just find us there. You can join in on the comments. It's fun. Talk about all my, my, uh, questionable credentials.
Or, if you wanna just be a decent human being, you can just, uh, say hi. Mm.
That's also, that's also a possibility.
Jessica Abreu: And like and subscribe.
Mikki Paradis: Also like and subscribe. Apparently, our TikTok's doing really well. Um, I, I'm not gonna lie to you guys, and I was realizing, laying in bed, you know, I am sleeping a little bit [00:02:00] more.
Good. So, that's great. I was laying in bed- Fantastic ... and I was thinking, I probably shouldn't say that I don't, uh, I don't read the comments on TikTok. But I'm not gonna lie to you guys. Um, I think it's important, especially when you kinda put yourself out there in a somewhat public figure way. I mean, we're not really, but that's what Facebook makes us click.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that we're public figures. I don't know. I didn't make up the rules. So, when you put yourself out there, I think like having really strong boundaries is important. Mm-hmm. So, when I realized pretty early on that- Very
Jessica Abreu: early on ...
Mikki Paradis: I was not gonna be somebody that a lot of people were excited to listen to when it comes to construction, I just wasn't gonna read the comments.
Jessica Abreu: She gets a little mad.
Mikki Paradis: I do. I get angry. The vein in the middle of my head- Mm-hmm ... starts to pop, and it's just, it's not a good look.
Jessica Abreu: I read all the comments
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, Jess does. So Jess knows who you are.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: She knows.
Jessica Abreu: I know.
Mikki Paradis: She knows, you know. Mm-hmm. [00:03:00] She could- I go- ... find who your mom is too ... I
Jessica Abreu: go look at your profile-
and see if you really have a legit reason to try to discredit us. I mean, you're just mad that we exist- Yeah ... in the
Mikki Paradis: world. I mean, that's really what it is. Mm-hmm. It's, it's... and it's like, unless, I get it. I've, like, I've been a contractor for 22 years. If you think that I'm new to the idea of men not being excited - No, all the, yeah
about me existing, I mean, I've been- Yeah ... I didn't need TikTok to know- No, mm-mm ... that men weren't thrilled that- But the ladies ... a woman was talking about construction.
Jessica Abreu: The ladies love us. They are finding valuable information.
Mikki Paradis: Ladies. They
Jessica Abreu: are happy that we are there. They're like, "Oh, my gosh. Where have you been my entire life?"
So yes. Right
Mikki Paradis: here.
Jessica Abreu: We are here.
Mikki Paradis: We're here for you, ladies.
Jessica Abreu: We are.
Mikki Paradis: And I will, just to be real clear, like, when we are putting our stuff, like, i- in the back end, uh, when we're, we're
Jessica Abreu: lo- That came out wrong.
Mikki Paradis: It did. I, I don't put things in the back end, but in the back end of [00:04:00] YouTube is where I was trying to go, but the pause was not in the best spot.
No. And thank you, Jess, for pointing that out.
When we're uploading our videos-
Jessica Abreu: That is better ...
Mikki Paradis: in YouTube on the, in the YouTube Studio, eh, look at I can be taught, we, like, select who we want, like, if, if the algorithm to serve our videos to. And I'm gonna just let y'all know, I unclick men.
Jessica Abreu: Every time.
Mikki Paradis: And yet, so many of you guys get rage baited- ... with our content.
Jessica Abreu: I
Mikki Paradis: love it. Like, we know you hate us. So do all the social-
Jessica Abreu: And yet,
Mikki Paradis: there it goes ... but it also gets served to an amazing group of wom- women, and some men.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: And- Not all men are awful ... all kinds of individuals- Mm-hmm ... that enjoy our content, and we appreciate that.
Jessica Abreu: Love it.
Mikki Paradis: We're here for it. Um, I, I think I was [00:05:00] thinking about this episode today on our dri- on my drive over- Mm-hmm
which I was, um, definitely breaking laws, I'm just gonna tell on myself. Laws were broken. I caught every single red light. Like, there's this one light- This
Jessica Abreu: is the universe telling you, be like, mm-hmm ...
Mikki Paradis: that's just like, "Oh, you're gonna be late." "Let's make it
Jessica Abreu: a
Mikki Paradis: little harder." "You should've left earlier, Mickey."
And I'm like, "Of course I should've left earlier." That's the story of my actual life. I should've left earlier. That should be on my gravestone. Should've left earlier. Like- That's not a gravestone. I feel like it is a good gravestone. She should've
left ear- Mickey Paradise, she should've left earlier.
Jessica Abreu: She built this world earlier.
She should've died way sooner. She should've kicked the bucket. We don't know how she's
Mikki Paradis: still alive. She just tortured us all for so many years. Oh,
Jessica Abreu: we need help.
Mikki Paradis: I would seriously consider putting that on my mom's gravestone, I'm not gonna lie. It did just get dark. It did. But listen.
Jessica Abreu: We're, we're coming back around, landing the plane.
Mikki Paradis: She should've left earlier. Anyway, so [00:06:00] there's this one red light that, like, only gets triggered when somebody's trying to co- cross the road, and, like, absolutely no one crosses the road at this spot except for today.
Jessica Abreu: And they walk as slow as humanly possible.
Mikki Paradis: Like, they were. And I was like, "Of course this is happening to me."
So I was real late. So when I was thinking about this story on my way over when I had copious amounts of time at red lights to think about the story, um- It occurred to me that, like, really our podcast is, like, this collective of people that want to share their experiences and want to learn from other people's experiences.
Mm-hmm. And one, like, just life lesson that I don't know where it came from, I don't know if it came from growing up in Florida, which is a real wild place to be young, um, but don't upset the witches. I don't know if you guys can see this. Let me take my... Don't upset the witches. It's words that I live by, and I specifically chose this, uh, shirt today-
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm
Mikki Paradis: because the builder [00:07:00] involved in today's story has in fact upset the witches.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-mm.
Mikki Paradis: The witches- That's not good ... have been upset, and it shows. Mm. So, um, it is very witchy. Listen, I don't know if witches are real. I don't know. But I do know that I don't wanna be on the wrong side of it if it turns out witches are real.
I wanna be on the right side of it. So I'm erring on the side of caution and being a little bit afraid of hypothetical witches.
Jessica Abreu: All right.
Mikki Paradis: This is just my life, my life's journey, and now you're here with me. So, how did this guy upset the witches? I'm gonna tell you about it. Uh, but I do wanna do, like, do our normal kind of disclaimer.
So th- this story did come to us in a very witchy way, I believe. Mm-hmm. So someone anonymously sent it to Jess, and then Jess sent it to me. Mm-hmm. And I watched it. It was a news... Like, it started out as a news story that was shared with us. Um, and then [00:08:00] someone, we haven't gotten confirmation on who, could've been a witch.
I don't know. Could've
been.
I don't know. Sent us, like, a l- very brief kind of synopsis of, like, what's going on in th- this case. So it's a, it's a homeowner who's suing a builder, and in this e- message that we get, it says, you know, "This builder recently went on a podcast and talked really bad about me in the podcast."
Oh. And I was like, he's in active litigation, by the way. He's
Jessica Abreu: trying to discredit her.
Mikki Paradis: He's 100% trying to discredit her. Mm-hmm. But unfortunately, that is a really bad idea when you're in active litigation to go on a podcast and disparage someone. Now, I will say, 'cause disclaimers are important, he does not say her name, but he says, he kinda lets a few things slip in the podcast that can 100% be tied back to her.
Jessica Abreu: Ah.
Mikki Paradis: So I think the [00:09:00] one of the, like, really important things, and we're gonna talk about it in the, in the script, is he, um- admits that the house that this woman bought and is having problems with is the first house that he ever built.
Jessica Abreu: Oh.
Mikki Paradis: It's like-
Jessica Abreu: I do not wanna be the first-
Mikki Paradis: Right,
Jessica Abreu: like so- Ever. I don't wanna be the first person you perform surgery on- Right, absolutely not
you build my house, you do a root canal ... no
Mikki Paradis: circumstance. Mm-mm.
And I'm just like, my personal opinion, my personal opinion after watching this podcast, I could not dislike this man more. Mm. Like, I would love to run into him on an actual construction site- Mm ... because I guarantee you, and those of you who work in construction know exactly what I'm talking about, I guarantee you he's wearing new boots.
And are they really new? No. But he don't get them dirty, 'cause he doesn't actually do construction, but he puts on his little builder hat and he gets to pretend like a [00:10:00] builder for a podcast that he builds houses. Ooh, like Bob the Builder. Yeah, 100%. He's like, I don't even know. Like, Bob the Builder actually builds stuff.
Oh, does he? Like, this guy-
No ...
just out here on these streets pretending. Pretending. And it shows. And so, like, I watch the pod- And it made me so mad. But just, like, his vibe was like, ugh. Like, you know how you meet somebody and you're like, "I threw up in my mouth a little bit bad"?
Jessica Abreu: You're like, "How can I get out of this conversation- Literally, I
Mikki Paradis: was
Jessica Abreu: like-
as quickly as possible?" ... can
Mikki Paradis: you please get to the part in the podcast where you talk bad about this woman so that I can be done watching you? It was terrible. So, um, in this podcast he calls her a witch, and I s- I was like, oh, the witches have been upset. Mm. Um, he also, like, he t- he, he, again, he doesn't say her name, but you can literally go back through the permits of the new construction homes that he [00:11:00] built, and the house that she bought is the first house he pulled a permit on.
Hmm. And I'm just like, oh- Ooh ... buddy, you should've thought about that before you went on a podcast and- And
Jessica Abreu: said
Mikki Paradis: it ... said what you said. And what's funny is I offered this woman the opportunity to come on our podcast- Hmm ... and say bad, nasty things about him, but she declined, so I'm gonna do it for her. And here we go.
I
have nothing nice to say about him.
So we're gonna get into it. So, um- Let's see. Like I said, this, this was like, the story was shared with us. It's been covered in the news. Um, the, the dude talked about it on the podcast that he was on. Of course, he didn't, um, acknowledge any wrongdoing. And one thing to note that there is active litigation, but there has not been any determination of fault.
Mm-hmm. So everything that we share is our [00:12:00] opinions. Uh, I'm gonna
Jessica Abreu: have- And stuff that allegedly happened ...
Mikki Paradis: I'ma, I'ma have some real strong opinions about all the things that allegedly happened. Mm-hmm. So we do need to kinda give that disclos- disclosure, is that this is definitely a he said, she said. Um, and nothing has been determined, so there's no, uh, determination of fault in any of this as of yet.
Um, so this woman, she bought a new house. Within six months, she says that her water, that there was water getting in, that her health was getting worse, and the repair plan kept coming back to the same two words: caulk and grout.
Jessica Abreu: Hmm. And then she decided to do something that most homeowners don't do.
Mikki Paradis: That's right, she picked up a hammer and opened up her own shower. And when I heard that story, I... 'Cause, like, the, the extremes that you have to be to just, if you don't work in construction, the idea of literally just [00:13:00] tearing up the tile in your bathroom-
Jessica Abreu: 100% not ...
Mikki Paradis: you have to be at a breaking point. Yeah.
You know? Just like, "That's it, I'm taking it." 'Cause you can't get anybody to believe you, and nobody will do the, the l- work to look and see what's actually going on. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "Get it, girl." Yeah. I was so happy to hear that.
Jessica Abreu: And when she did that, what she found behind the tile changed everything.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. But somehow, this is not even the wildest part of the story.
Jessica Abreu: Because while the lawsuit over the house was still pending, the builder went on a podcast and described an unnamed female as a nut job, quotes, and a witch, quotes. Yeah,
Mikki Paradis: yeah. Like, I He s- he started off with that, and I was like, "Oh, this, we're going...
Okay. All right." , And then he revealed one detail that she says she never knew when she bought the house
Jessica Abreu: And that was the fact that it was the first house that he ever built.
Mikki Paradis: He outed himself in all of his craziness and his [00:14:00] audacity. So grab the hammer, your hammer, but maybe don't swing it yet. We just need to talk.
Jessica Abreu: let's start where every new home- Where every new home story starts.
Mikki Paradis: Hope. So she believed she was buying stability, a new home, a clean slate, not an old house with decades of mystery repairs, um, and a panel box labeled with some- in somebody else's handwriting.
Which is so hilarious.
Jessica Abreu: Oh my God.
Mikki Paradis: It's always somebody
Jessica Abreu: else's handwriting. Yep. Which is part of the emotional hook in new construction. You are not expecting perfection in that nothing will ever need maintenance, but you do expect the major systems to have been properly assembled.
Mikki Paradis: Right. New does not mean defect-proof, but it does create a reasonable expectation that the home's water management and plumbing systems are doing their [00:15:00] basic job.
Jessica Abreu: But according to this homeowner, the problems didn't take years to appear.
Mikki Paradis: She says that within roughly six months she began experiencing health symptoms while living in the house. She also says those symptoms seemed to worsen the more time she spent there.
Jessica Abreu: So we need to pause on the wording. So she associates the decline in her health with the house.
But we need, but we do not have the medical evidence- Yeah ... necessary to say that the house caused those symptoms.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, that's one thing that's, like, you know, obviously we have to be very clear that while we've had covered many, many stories of water intrusion- Mm-hmm ... and, and specifically mold, I think our literal first episode was about black mold- Mm-hmm
and water damage. So while we've covered it a lot on the show, and water intrusion and water damage in homes is a really real thing, [00:16:00] and people ... The, the thing that I've learned, like, all, through all this time is that people have different susceptibilities to mold. Right. So, like, apparently it's even, like, a genetic thing.
Like, you can have a genetic, um, I think it's a mutation- Susceptibility. Mm-hmm ... where you are more susceptible to negative symptoms being exposed to mold. So that's one of the things to keep in, in mind is, like, you might be somebody who can just be around mold and it doesn't affect you one bit. That doesn't mean that that's the case for everybody else.
Mm-hmm. And so she started, you know, kind of t- really talking about these symptoms, and in her story and the story that she shared with me, her medical situation is tied in her mind- In her version of reality to her symptoms. Mm-hmm. So the house and the symptoms are, are one and the same, so we wanna be clear about that.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And regardless of medical causation, even though, like, her symptoms are something that, like, you can't say, [00:17:00] like, "Oh, the house caused it," there was physical and observable problems. It was reoccur- reoccurring-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: water intrusion.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. She says the water appeared when it rained. Um, she also reports water problems connected to shower use.
Mm. Those may be separate sources or they may be connected. We can't, you know, know for sure without reports, but either one kinda deserves real investigation.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And she says that she regularly brought these concerns to the builder.
Mikki Paradis: And according to her, the proposed solutions involved adding caulking or resealing the grout.
Jessica Abreu: Okay. So now, um- Let me see Contractor Mickey and Homeowner Mickey Like, I want both sides of the coin here. Um, can caulk legitimately fix a water problem?
Mikki Paradis: No. So like, so [00:18:00] caulk is never a solution to a water issue. It is the thing that you do to prevent a water issue. So you, you know, like w- in n- in, in, in what we do in new construction multifamily, like, there's a lot of things that have to be sealed.
Like, you have to seal where the countertop in the kitchen, like where the countertop hits the wall or the tile or whatever it is. Yeah. Because, you know, that's one of those spots where you're gonna be getting water all over the, the area, and enough intrusion of water into that space will cause a mold, a, a organic material situation.
So that's one of those things- Mm-hmm ... where you use the caulk and you use the grout- Mm-hmm ... to prevent those areas from getting wet. Once they have already gotten wet, once, if that caulking or that grout has failed, in some situations, resealing it can be the fix. Like, you know, i- a- as most homeowners don't reseal their grout every year, most homeowners don't touch up caulking [00:19:00] when they see it start to crack a little bit.
Never done it, ever. So like, in those situations, like okay, yeah, you can, that can be one answer to the problem. You know? If, if you're having water intrusions, you can repair your grout. You can repair your caulking. Mm-hmm. If it continues to be a problem, it's no longer a grout and a caulking issue. Okay. But that he kept coming back with-
Jessica Abreu: It's just caulk
Mikki Paradis: it's the caulk, it's the grout. Is it? And it's just like, what? Like, what are you talking about?
Jessica Abreu: It's so ridiculous.
Mikki Paradis: It really is. Um, so-
Jessica Abreu: So she reached a point where she felt something deeper-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: was going on, which is probably why she picked up a hammer and went after her tile.
Mikki Paradis: 100%. So, um-
Jessica Abreu: So imagine standing in the shower-
Mikki Paradis: I can't
Jessica Abreu: in a relatively new home that you paid real money for.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. And this was, like, her first, like, grown-up home. Grown-up home. Mm. Like she's, y- her entire life savings is invested into this house, and so it is not like a small thing. It is not a small thing.
Jessica Abreu: Nope. [00:20:00] Um, because all houses cost, like, a lot of money now.
Yeah,
Mikki Paradis: it's wild these days.
Jessica Abreu: Like how, buying a house is just crazy. And deciding that the only way you are going to get an answer is to destroy the finishes yourself.
Mikki Paradis: Which is like a massive decision to make. You, like you really have to think about, like, how, how far things have gone for you to get to the point where you were like, "I'm, I'm, I'ma tear up this tile."
Mm-hmm. So once you start that demolition, you may affect the warranty dispute, and that, that is a little tricky little thing- Mm-hmm ... where builders try to get you to not investigate further. So unfortunately, like, the reality of the situation is if you have a water intrusion in your bathroom, you have an issue.
The only way to find out, d- depending on how your house is framed, to really find out what's going on behind there- Mm-hmm ... can be you gotta take a hammer to it.
Jessica Abreu: That is not
Mikki Paradis: what we are
Jessica Abreu: suggesting.
Mikki Paradis: And that can, we are not suggesting that. But it, th- that can then affect your warranty. Mm-hmm. So the builder can go back and say, "Oh, well, [00:21:00] you damaged the tile.
It's not my job to fix that." So a lot of builders will use that idea of, "Oh, if you investigate further by taking off a piece of tile," or, you know, in this case, a hammer to your tile- Yeah ... you're voiding your warranty. Uh, the, she was obviously to the point where she was willing to destroy, you know, to, to throw that caution to the wind.
So, um, you may destroy evidence. You may also expose, um, a condition that needs t- that leads to contamination, um, or d- that you then have to bring in a professional to handle it. So we don't want our viewers to go crazy with the hammer, uh, in their showers. We just, we want you to understand that this was kind of an extreme situation.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah, please do not tag us from a cloud- ... of mystery drywall dust. Please
Mikki Paradis: do not.
Jessica Abreu: Please do not.
Mikki Paradis: We want you to call the, uh, uh, the right professional first. Document everything. Understand the consequences. But this homeowner says that she had reached a point where she no longer [00:22:00] trusted the surface level repairs, which I do not blame her.
Jessica Abreu: Nope, so she took a hammer to the shower.
Mikki Paradis: That's right.
Jessica Abreu: And according to the homeowner, once the finished material came off, she saw a shower pan and waterproofing arrangement that did not look like the continuous system that she had expected.
Now, it's gonna be real bad. Because as a homeowner-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: if I took off my shower tile, and I looked down to see whatever is there- What's happening
Mikki Paradis: down
Jessica Abreu: there? I'm like, I don't even know what I would be looking for.
Mikki Paradis: , I wanna be really careful here. Without a complete assembly, the product list, the installation instructions, um Like how, how it was applied and expert findings. I'm not going to diagnose the entire insulation, um, from like one image.
But what I can imagine, uh, what a shower waterproofing system is, you know, supposed to accomplish. The entire point of, of the way... And most states are, there's, it's a code [00:23:00] requirement. It's not, you just as a builder don't get to willy-nilly decide- Mm-hmm ... how you're going to seal the areas where tile or where a, a shower or bathtub are going.
There's a code requirement for that. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's not dealer's choice. It has to be done in a certain way. So when it is not done in a certain way, it, that way exists because water intrusion can make people really sick. It can be really dangerous. And so that's one of those things where it needs to be a continuous system, and it needs to be sealed.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And, um, full confession- ... as a homeowner, I thought that the tile is what waterproofed my shower.
Mikki Paradis: And a lot of people do. Like, it's, that's so common. Most people would. Tile is the pretty, visible part, but tile and grout are not the complete waterproofing system. Water can pass through grout lines, small cracks, joints, and penetrations.
The assembly [00:24:00] behind or beneath the tile has to manage that moisture and direct it to the drain without allowing it into the, kind of the surrounding structure.
Jessica Abreu: Okay, so the shower pan that she's talking about isn't just the floor that I stand on in my shower.
Mikki Paradis: Exactly. So in everyday language, it's the part of the system that creates a watertight and properly water-managed base beneath the finished shower surface.
So the exact design depends on like the system used, but communities, or sorry, continuity matters. So seams matter, corners matter, and the connection between the drain matters, too. Every piece of like the, the system has to be 100% water-sealed. Mm-hmm. And it also supports the water shedding, which is a really important piece.
Jessica Abreu: Because water does not respect our intention.
Mikki Paradis: No. Water is deeply disrespectful, as we have discussed. And it will find the, kind of the smallest opening. Like, we have this, um, we [00:25:00] have this phrase, like, water seeks its own level. Mm-hmm. So like water in all things, like w- we've had situations where there's been a leak on that side of the house- Mm-hmm
in a roof, and yet the water protrusion happens on the exact other side of the house. And it's because the water just found this path of least resistance. Mm-hmm. It traveled all the way across the house to that spot, and it was easiest for the water to get out of that spot. And so that's just what water does.
Like, it does-
Jessica Abreu: It is ...
Mikki Paradis: what it wants.
Jessica Abreu: It's crazy, which explains why put caulk where the water showed up may not answer where did the water begin?
Mikki Paradis: Exactly. The wet spot is not always the source. If you keep sealing that place where the water exists without finding where it enters, you may only be redirecting it to another concealed area.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And so the homeowner said that she also found a dark growth, which she believes is mold.
Mikki Paradis: Right. Um, we're going to call it [00:26:00] s- suspicious mold, or what, uh, we've learned in the industry is organic material.
Jessica Abreu: AKA-
Mikki Paradis: That's right ... what
Jessica Abreu: people think- AKA- ... is black mold ...
Mikki Paradis: right, which, what, what she thinks- Could be, mm-hmm
is black mold. And it could be. Um, but because we don't have that, you know, any ki- any kind of testing, we can't say for sure that that's what it is. Mm-hmm. That's just what the homeowner really thinks it is.
Jessica Abreu: But visible growth or staining in a wet wall is not something you ignore.
Mikki Paradis: No, you genuinely should not. It tells you that the moisture, uh, kinda question needs attention. Even the Tennessee Department of Health, um, of Health's Healthy Homes guidance begins with keeping the home dry because damp conditions support mold growth.
Jessica Abreu: And this is when she decided to bring in an ex- an inspector.
Mikki Paradis: So according to the homeowner, the inspector recommended that she vacate the property.
Jessica Abreu: So we do not yet have the written report, so we cannot tell you the specific findings [00:27:00] behind that recommendation. But we can assume that it's not good. 'Cause who's gonna tell you to vacate your home?
Mikki Paradis: Right. And that's the thing is, like, w- so all of these stories that we've shared over almost two years of this podcast, there have only been this and one other story, which was the Jake Mulback story- Mm-hmm ... where an inspector came in and said, "You need to vacate this home immediately," because we, you know, in that case it was that it wasn't structurally unsound.
Mm-hmm. And in this case, and when you watch the, when I watched the, um, news recording of her, she specifically said that the inspector told her that she needed to vacate the home because of, of the mold growth. Mm. So she did say that on, uh, again, we don't have that report, but she said that on the news, uh, that they told her specifically because of the mold she needed to vacate the premises.
And, you know, that report does matter. Was the concern mold? Was it moisture? Was it plumbing? Was it indoor air? It could've been multiple issues. Um, w- and we don't know what that kind of recommendation was. We don't know if it was immediate, if it was temporary, if [00:28:00] it was conditional. Those details, they'll eventually come forward in the- Mm-hmm
in the documentation of the court case, but we haven't received them yet.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. But all that we know is that the homeowner did leave her home.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, which is just wild.
Jessica Abreu: And yeah. She describes the consequences as devastating. Losing the use of her home, her sense of security, financial stability, possessions, and employment stability.
Mikki Paradis: And those are the homeowner's kind of reported losses. Um- As the kind of precise financial and legal damages remain part of an unresolved dispute. But even before the court assigns responsibility, moving out of the home you believed would provide stability is really, it's just a truly enormous disruption.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm. And the shower was not the only issue that the homeowner said in, that the investigators found.
Mikki Paradis: So she reports that a plumbing vent stack terminated inside the attic instead of being [00:29:00] properly routed outdoors, which is a huge issue, especially, like, when we were talking about that one lady who has all those humidity issues.
Mm-hmm. That's a part of that. Like, it needs to be routed out to get fresh air or it just kind of goes into your attic space. And in the humidity of Tennessee, like, it's just- It's,
Jessica Abreu: it's just-
Mikki Paradis: The moisture is just staying inside the house ... it's just wet.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm. So, um, I guess explain the plumbing vent. Like, I am someone who-
never once looked above the ceiling and would like to keep it that way.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, you should abs- uh, plumbing vents are really interesting 'cause there's actually a couple different parts of, of the bathroom that need to be vented. So, like, the fart fan, for exa- example. Yeah. So a lot of people's homes, especially if they were built longer, like, lo- longer ago.
Jessica Abreu: Longer ago.
Mikki Paradis: I don't know, a while ago. Professional words. Some time ago. Doing the best I can. Back in the
Jessica Abreu: 1900s. Back in
Mikki Paradis: the day, in the 1900s. Oh, so rude. Yeah, so if your house was built in the 1900s, a lot of people just thought, "Okay, we'll just throw this fan in there." And the whole point of, like, we ca- I call it a fart [00:30:00] fan, I think it's, it's called an exhaust fan.
The, is to pull the moisture out of your, your bathroom when, like, you're having a hot shower- Mm-hmm ... or, like, when there's water going on in the bathroom. So when you have the shower or the bathtub turned on. You flip that on because humidity starts to a- you know, accumulate in the room- Yeah ... and it pulls that out, and it is supposed to exhaust out.
Also, you have an exhaust, like a plumbing exhaust that all of these things have to be tied to the outside of the house. Okay. It can't just go into the attic. Mm-hmm. But it's actually wildly common for things to terminate into the attic. It's not right, but it's common. It shouldn't exist, though, in a new construction home because, one, that shouldn't have passed inspection.
Mm-hmm.
But also, two, these are things we know better. Like, a lot of stuff happened in the 1900s because they didn't know any better. Like, they didn't know that, okay, this could- We were learning ... right, we were learning. Now we know better. You don't terminate any exhaust fans in your bathroom into the attic space.
Just not okay.
Jessica Abreu: , So the homeowner associat- this alleged con- alleged [00:31:00] condition with odors or exposure concerns and with her health experience.
Mikki Paradis: And again, we can't make any kind of medical c- medical connection. But what I think is really important to understand is, one, this was a new construction build.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: This was a repeated issue where the homeowner went back to the builder and said, "Hey, listen, something's going on here. You know, there's water coming into the house."
Mm-hmm. "There's weird smells in the house." S- like, "Something is not working correctly." And this is kind of the part where, like, th- watching that podcast irritated- Mm ... the bejeezus out of me because he calls her, um, a witch. He calls her a nut job. He doesn't take any of her concerns seriously. Says that she's just
she, she was picking apart the home to try and find something. So instead of saying, "I have this client who spent over half a million dollars on a house- Mm-hmm ... that I built brand new. My [00:32:00] first house. The first house I ever built." Like, he's so arrogant that he doesn't even have the, the for- like, the, the know-it-all to say- Mm-hmm
like, "Hey, it actually was my first house. Like, I was learning." Right. "I could have made a mistake." And this woman is saying, like, she's having problems. Like, her, her health is failing. She's not ... she, so she reported, like, having extreme brain fog. Like, all of these- Oh ... things that are associated- Mm-hmm ... with mold toxicity.
She w- you know, she was just like, "Something is wrong. Something is wrong. There's water getting into the house." And instead of him being like, "All right, let me just ... Because I have a responsibility as the person who built this house, I have a responsibility to make sure that you're safe in your home. Let me just take your serious r- r- results seriously."
What would it have cost him to be the one to take that hammer to the shower? Well, he could- Yeah ... have had c- had his tile guy back out there if there was nothing behind it. He coulda had his tile guy out there to fix it. Maybe it woulda cost him a couple hundred dollars. Mm-hmm. So, like, to [00:33:00] take her concerns seriously, it woulda cost him a couple hundred dollars.
But her health and her, like, her life was so invaluable to this dude. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter to him that he had not just the audacity to not take her things, her concerns for the over half a million dollar home that she bought from him seriously. Mm-hmm. But then he has the audacity to go on a podcast and call her a nut job and a witch.
Yeah. Like-
Mm-mm ...
she has proof that this man did something wrong in the construction of the home, and it didn't have to be a lawsuit. No. It could have been a situation where he owned it up. Rip out the entire shower. Even that- Well- ... would've cost you less than this lawsuit's going to ...
Jessica Abreu: and, like, I feel like if he had taken her concerns seriously, maybe not the first time.
Maybe the first time he thought it was the caulk. Maybe
Mikki Paradis: the- Right, which is fair. Okay ... fine. You thi-
Jessica Abreu: But, like, the second time it happens, like, at that point- Yeah ... you should know that there's something else going on. By the third time, [00:34:00] absolutely. And that's- Yeah ... when, like- Just do the right thing. It w- And it, it would have caused...
Everything wouldn't have been-
Mikki Paradis: Right ... bad. That's the whole thing. Like, even if it just turned out th- that, that there was nothing there and he had to spend a couple hundred dollars to put the shower back together. Yeah. Or even if it was a couple thousand dollars. You know how much attorneys cost these days?
Like- Right ... they're in active litigation. He's spending thousands upon thousands of dollars to try to defend this lawsuit.
Jessica Abreu: It's crazy.
Mikki Paradis: And it's just like- And it's
Jessica Abreu: crazy that it passed inspection ...
Mikki Paradis: that's the thing, too, is like- Mm ... and, and we've talked about this so much on the show, that, that there's so many different layers that when, when, when you're working with a GC who's so egotistical that they're not gonna take your health concerns seriously, that they're not gonna take your complaint seriously, that is a failure in and of itself.
And then, you know, it, the inspector misses something. They're, they're, they're not paying attention. They don't catch something. All of these things can kind of stack up and put you as the homeowner in the worst position. Yeah. And kind of now you're having [00:35:00] to fight to get the value of your home back. And unfortunately in this case, this guy was so unbelievably arrogant.
I do, I, I really am gonna follow this case closely because I, I can't wait for him to lose. Like, I
Jessica Abreu: need the witches- And when he does, we will tell you all about it. I need
Mikki Paradis: the witches to make it
so. So with that, if you have had a, a story that you wanna share with us that you think our audience would benefit from knowing, like, "Hey, this happened, and here's how we can avoid it, and here's how you, the audience, can avoid it," we would love it if you would share it with us.
You can go to chicksinconstruction.com. You kinda scroll down. There's a little form. You can fill it out. It'll come to us. We will read it. We will not say your name- Never ... even if I mess up and Joe has to edit it out. Don't you worry. We're here for you. Jess, where can they find us on the socials?
Jessica Abreu: On Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, it's @chicksinconstructionpodcast.
On TikTok, it's @chicksinconstruction. Make sure you like and follow.
Mikki Paradis: Like, follow, subscribe, and listen. [00:36:00] Remember, don't upset the witches. All right? We love you. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. All
===
Mikki Paradis: [00:00:00] Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise. This is my amazing co-host.
Jessica Abreu: Hi, I'm Jessica Abreu.
Mikki Paradis: And this podcast really just exists to help people learn from other people's mistakes, construction edition.
Mm-hmm. It's like true crime, constructure- construction edition. We wanna help you, the homeowner, or you, the future homeowner, or you, the person who's d- about to deal with a new roof or a new hot water heater or just some general shenanigans. We wanna help you know kinda what's normal and what's not normal, and what to expect and what, w- when, when something comes upon you that you know is out of sorts, that you have kinda the skills and the know-how to say- Mm
"Mm, no, I saw that." Yep, that's- These two chicks.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah, that's a red flag.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I am a licensed general contractor, but more so I have been a [00:01:00] drywall and paint contractor for 22 years, so that's my credential. Now, you might think, "Pfft," to those credential. That's fine. That's fine. You, um, if, if you're in that category, I say go to TikTok and join the comments, 'cause that's where there's a lot of guys named Bob-
or Jim or Joe- Or Chuck ... Chuck, Jimmy, Billy. They be up in them comments just discrediting my credentials all day long. So, join 'em on the Tok. And where can they find us, Jess, on the Tok?
Jessica Abreu: We're @ChicksInConstruction.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, so just find us there. You can join in on the comments. It's fun. Talk about all my, my, uh, questionable credentials.
Or, if you wanna just be a decent human being, you can just, uh, say hi. Mm.
That's also, that's also a possibility.
Jessica Abreu: And like and subscribe.
Mikki Paradis: Also like and subscribe. Apparently, our TikTok's doing really well. Um, I, I'm not gonna lie to you guys, and I was realizing, laying in bed, you know, I am sleeping a little bit [00:02:00] more.
Good. So, that's great. I was laying in bed- Fantastic ... and I was thinking, I probably shouldn't say that I don't, uh, I don't read the comments on TikTok. But I'm not gonna lie to you guys. Um, I think it's important, especially when you kinda put yourself out there in a somewhat public figure way. I mean, we're not really, but that's what Facebook makes us click.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that we're public figures. I don't know. I didn't make up the rules. So, when you put yourself out there, I think like having really strong boundaries is important. Mm-hmm. So, when I realized pretty early on that- Very
Jessica Abreu: early on ...
Mikki Paradis: I was not gonna be somebody that a lot of people were excited to listen to when it comes to construction, I just wasn't gonna read the comments.
Jessica Abreu: She gets a little mad.
Mikki Paradis: I do. I get angry. The vein in the middle of my head- Mm-hmm ... starts to pop, and it's just, it's not a good look.
Jessica Abreu: I read all the comments
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, Jess does. So Jess knows who you are.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: She knows.
Jessica Abreu: I know.
Mikki Paradis: She knows, you know. Mm-hmm. [00:03:00] She could- I go- ... find who your mom is too ... I
Jessica Abreu: go look at your profile-
and see if you really have a legit reason to try to discredit us. I mean, you're just mad that we exist- Yeah ... in the
Mikki Paradis: world. I mean, that's really what it is. Mm-hmm. It's, it's... and it's like, unless, I get it. I've, like, I've been a contractor for 22 years. If you think that I'm new to the idea of men not being excited - No, all the, yeah
about me existing, I mean, I've been- Yeah ... I didn't need TikTok to know- No, mm-mm ... that men weren't thrilled that- But the ladies ... a woman was talking about construction.
Jessica Abreu: The ladies love us. They are finding valuable information.
Mikki Paradis: Ladies. They
Jessica Abreu: are happy that we are there. They're like, "Oh, my gosh. Where have you been my entire life?"
So yes. Right
Mikki Paradis: here.
Jessica Abreu: We are here.
Mikki Paradis: We're here for you, ladies.
Jessica Abreu: We are.
Mikki Paradis: And I will, just to be real clear, like, when we are putting our stuff, like, i- in the back end, uh, when we're, we're
Jessica Abreu: lo- That came out wrong.
Mikki Paradis: It did. I, I don't put things in the back end, but in the back end of [00:04:00] YouTube is where I was trying to go, but the pause was not in the best spot.
No. And thank you, Jess, for pointing that out.
When we're uploading our videos-
Jessica Abreu: That is better ...
Mikki Paradis: in YouTube on the, in the YouTube Studio, eh, look at I can be taught, we, like, select who we want, like, if, if the algorithm to serve our videos to. And I'm gonna just let y'all know, I unclick men.
Jessica Abreu: Every time.
Mikki Paradis: And yet, so many of you guys get rage baited- ... with our content.
Jessica Abreu: I
Mikki Paradis: love it. Like, we know you hate us. So do all the social-
Jessica Abreu: And yet,
Mikki Paradis: there it goes ... but it also gets served to an amazing group of wom- women, and some men.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: And- Not all men are awful ... all kinds of individuals- Mm-hmm ... that enjoy our content, and we appreciate that.
Jessica Abreu: Love it.
Mikki Paradis: We're here for it. Um, I, I think I was [00:05:00] thinking about this episode today on our dri- on my drive over- Mm-hmm
which I was, um, definitely breaking laws, I'm just gonna tell on myself. Laws were broken. I caught every single red light. Like, there's this one light- This
Jessica Abreu: is the universe telling you, be like, mm-hmm ...
Mikki Paradis: that's just like, "Oh, you're gonna be late." "Let's make it
Jessica Abreu: a
Mikki Paradis: little harder." "You should've left earlier, Mickey."
And I'm like, "Of course I should've left earlier." That's the story of my actual life. I should've left earlier. That should be on my gravestone. Should've left earlier. Like- That's not a gravestone. I feel like it is a good gravestone. She should've
left ear- Mickey Paradise, she should've left earlier.
Jessica Abreu: She built this world earlier.
She should've died way sooner. She should've kicked the bucket. We don't know how she's
Mikki Paradis: still alive. She just tortured us all for so many years. Oh,
Jessica Abreu: we need help.
Mikki Paradis: I would seriously consider putting that on my mom's gravestone, I'm not gonna lie. It did just get dark. It did. But listen.
Jessica Abreu: We're, we're coming back around, landing the plane.
Mikki Paradis: She should've left earlier. Anyway, so [00:06:00] there's this one red light that, like, only gets triggered when somebody's trying to co- cross the road, and, like, absolutely no one crosses the road at this spot except for today.
Jessica Abreu: And they walk as slow as humanly possible.
Mikki Paradis: Like, they were. And I was like, "Of course this is happening to me."
So I was real late. So when I was thinking about this story on my way over when I had copious amounts of time at red lights to think about the story, um- It occurred to me that, like, really our podcast is, like, this collective of people that want to share their experiences and want to learn from other people's experiences.
Mm-hmm. And one, like, just life lesson that I don't know where it came from, I don't know if it came from growing up in Florida, which is a real wild place to be young, um, but don't upset the witches. I don't know if you guys can see this. Let me take my... Don't upset the witches. It's words that I live by, and I specifically chose this, uh, shirt today-
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm
Mikki Paradis: because the builder [00:07:00] involved in today's story has in fact upset the witches.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-mm.
Mikki Paradis: The witches- That's not good ... have been upset, and it shows. Mm. So, um, it is very witchy. Listen, I don't know if witches are real. I don't know. But I do know that I don't wanna be on the wrong side of it if it turns out witches are real.
I wanna be on the right side of it. So I'm erring on the side of caution and being a little bit afraid of hypothetical witches.
Jessica Abreu: All right.
Mikki Paradis: This is just my life, my life's journey, and now you're here with me. So, how did this guy upset the witches? I'm gonna tell you about it. Uh, but I do wanna do, like, do our normal kind of disclaimer.
So th- this story did come to us in a very witchy way, I believe. Mm-hmm. So someone anonymously sent it to Jess, and then Jess sent it to me. Mm-hmm. And I watched it. It was a news... Like, it started out as a news story that was shared with us. Um, and then [00:08:00] someone, we haven't gotten confirmation on who, could've been a witch.
I don't know. Could've
been.
I don't know. Sent us, like, a l- very brief kind of synopsis of, like, what's going on in th- this case. So it's a, it's a homeowner who's suing a builder, and in this e- message that we get, it says, you know, "This builder recently went on a podcast and talked really bad about me in the podcast."
Oh. And I was like, he's in active litigation, by the way. He's
Jessica Abreu: trying to discredit her.
Mikki Paradis: He's 100% trying to discredit her. Mm-hmm. But unfortunately, that is a really bad idea when you're in active litigation to go on a podcast and disparage someone. Now, I will say, 'cause disclaimers are important, he does not say her name, but he says, he kinda lets a few things slip in the podcast that can 100% be tied back to her.
Jessica Abreu: Ah.
Mikki Paradis: So I think the [00:09:00] one of the, like, really important things, and we're gonna talk about it in the, in the script, is he, um- admits that the house that this woman bought and is having problems with is the first house that he ever built.
Jessica Abreu: Oh.
Mikki Paradis: It's like-
Jessica Abreu: I do not wanna be the first-
Mikki Paradis: Right,
Jessica Abreu: like so- Ever. I don't wanna be the first person you perform surgery on- Right, absolutely not
you build my house, you do a root canal ... no
Mikki Paradis: circumstance. Mm-mm.
And I'm just like, my personal opinion, my personal opinion after watching this podcast, I could not dislike this man more. Mm. Like, I would love to run into him on an actual construction site- Mm ... because I guarantee you, and those of you who work in construction know exactly what I'm talking about, I guarantee you he's wearing new boots.
And are they really new? No. But he don't get them dirty, 'cause he doesn't actually do construction, but he puts on his little builder hat and he gets to pretend like a [00:10:00] builder for a podcast that he builds houses. Ooh, like Bob the Builder. Yeah, 100%. He's like, I don't even know. Like, Bob the Builder actually builds stuff.
Oh, does he? Like, this guy-
No ...
just out here on these streets pretending. Pretending. And it shows. And so, like, I watch the pod- And it made me so mad. But just, like, his vibe was like, ugh. Like, you know how you meet somebody and you're like, "I threw up in my mouth a little bit bad"?
Jessica Abreu: You're like, "How can I get out of this conversation- Literally, I
Mikki Paradis: was
Jessica Abreu: like-
as quickly as possible?" ... can
Mikki Paradis: you please get to the part in the podcast where you talk bad about this woman so that I can be done watching you? It was terrible. So, um, in this podcast he calls her a witch, and I s- I was like, oh, the witches have been upset. Mm. Um, he also, like, he t- he, he, again, he doesn't say her name, but you can literally go back through the permits of the new construction homes that he [00:11:00] built, and the house that she bought is the first house he pulled a permit on.
Hmm. And I'm just like, oh- Ooh ... buddy, you should've thought about that before you went on a podcast and- And
Jessica Abreu: said
Mikki Paradis: it ... said what you said. And what's funny is I offered this woman the opportunity to come on our podcast- Hmm ... and say bad, nasty things about him, but she declined, so I'm gonna do it for her. And here we go.
I
have nothing nice to say about him.
So we're gonna get into it. So, um- Let's see. Like I said, this, this was like, the story was shared with us. It's been covered in the news. Um, the, the dude talked about it on the podcast that he was on. Of course, he didn't, um, acknowledge any wrongdoing. And one thing to note that there is active litigation, but there has not been any determination of fault.
Mm-hmm. So everything that we share is our [00:12:00] opinions. Uh, I'm gonna
Jessica Abreu: have- And stuff that allegedly happened ...
Mikki Paradis: I'ma, I'ma have some real strong opinions about all the things that allegedly happened. Mm-hmm. So we do need to kinda give that disclos- disclosure, is that this is definitely a he said, she said. Um, and nothing has been determined, so there's no, uh, determination of fault in any of this as of yet.
Um, so this woman, she bought a new house. Within six months, she says that her water, that there was water getting in, that her health was getting worse, and the repair plan kept coming back to the same two words: caulk and grout.
Jessica Abreu: Hmm. And then she decided to do something that most homeowners don't do.
Mikki Paradis: That's right, she picked up a hammer and opened up her own shower. And when I heard that story, I... 'Cause, like, the, the extremes that you have to be to just, if you don't work in construction, the idea of literally just [00:13:00] tearing up the tile in your bathroom-
Jessica Abreu: 100% not ...
Mikki Paradis: you have to be at a breaking point. Yeah.
You know? Just like, "That's it, I'm taking it." 'Cause you can't get anybody to believe you, and nobody will do the, the l- work to look and see what's actually going on. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "Get it, girl." Yeah. I was so happy to hear that.
Jessica Abreu: And when she did that, what she found behind the tile changed everything.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. But somehow, this is not even the wildest part of the story.
Jessica Abreu: Because while the lawsuit over the house was still pending, the builder went on a podcast and described an unnamed female as a nut job, quotes, and a witch, quotes. Yeah,
Mikki Paradis: yeah. Like, I He s- he started off with that, and I was like, "Oh, this, we're going...
Okay. All right." , And then he revealed one detail that she says she never knew when she bought the house
Jessica Abreu: And that was the fact that it was the first house that he ever built.
Mikki Paradis: He outed himself in all of his craziness and his [00:14:00] audacity. So grab the hammer, your hammer, but maybe don't swing it yet. We just need to talk.
Jessica Abreu: let's start where every new home- Where every new home story starts.
Mikki Paradis: Hope. So she believed she was buying stability, a new home, a clean slate, not an old house with decades of mystery repairs, um, and a panel box labeled with some- in somebody else's handwriting.
Which is so hilarious.
Jessica Abreu: Oh my God.
Mikki Paradis: It's always somebody
Jessica Abreu: else's handwriting. Yep. Which is part of the emotional hook in new construction. You are not expecting perfection in that nothing will ever need maintenance, but you do expect the major systems to have been properly assembled.
Mikki Paradis: Right. New does not mean defect-proof, but it does create a reasonable expectation that the home's water management and plumbing systems are doing their [00:15:00] basic job.
Jessica Abreu: But according to this homeowner, the problems didn't take years to appear.
Mikki Paradis: She says that within roughly six months she began experiencing health symptoms while living in the house. She also says those symptoms seemed to worsen the more time she spent there.
Jessica Abreu: So we need to pause on the wording. So she associates the decline in her health with the house.
But we need, but we do not have the medical evidence- Yeah ... necessary to say that the house caused those symptoms.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, that's one thing that's, like, you know, obviously we have to be very clear that while we've had covered many, many stories of water intrusion- Mm-hmm ... and, and specifically mold, I think our literal first episode was about black mold- Mm-hmm
and water damage. So while we've covered it a lot on the show, and water intrusion and water damage in homes is a really real thing, [00:16:00] and people ... The, the thing that I've learned, like, all, through all this time is that people have different susceptibilities to mold. Right. So, like, apparently it's even, like, a genetic thing.
Like, you can have a genetic, um, I think it's a mutation- Susceptibility. Mm-hmm ... where you are more susceptible to negative symptoms being exposed to mold. So that's one of the things to keep in, in mind is, like, you might be somebody who can just be around mold and it doesn't affect you one bit. That doesn't mean that that's the case for everybody else.
Mm-hmm. And so she started, you know, kind of t- really talking about these symptoms, and in her story and the story that she shared with me, her medical situation is tied in her mind- In her version of reality to her symptoms. Mm-hmm. So the house and the symptoms are, are one and the same, so we wanna be clear about that.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And regardless of medical causation, even though, like, her symptoms are something that, like, you can't say, [00:17:00] like, "Oh, the house caused it," there was physical and observable problems. It was reoccur- reoccurring-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: water intrusion.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. She says the water appeared when it rained. Um, she also reports water problems connected to shower use.
Mm. Those may be separate sources or they may be connected. We can't, you know, know for sure without reports, but either one kinda deserves real investigation.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And she says that she regularly brought these concerns to the builder.
Mikki Paradis: And according to her, the proposed solutions involved adding caulking or resealing the grout.
Jessica Abreu: Okay. So now, um- Let me see Contractor Mickey and Homeowner Mickey Like, I want both sides of the coin here. Um, can caulk legitimately fix a water problem?
Mikki Paradis: No. So like, so [00:18:00] caulk is never a solution to a water issue. It is the thing that you do to prevent a water issue. So you, you know, like w- in n- in, in, in what we do in new construction multifamily, like, there's a lot of things that have to be sealed.
Like, you have to seal where the countertop in the kitchen, like where the countertop hits the wall or the tile or whatever it is. Yeah. Because, you know, that's one of those spots where you're gonna be getting water all over the, the area, and enough intrusion of water into that space will cause a mold, a, a organic material situation.
So that's one of those things- Mm-hmm ... where you use the caulk and you use the grout- Mm-hmm ... to prevent those areas from getting wet. Once they have already gotten wet, once, if that caulking or that grout has failed, in some situations, resealing it can be the fix. Like, you know, i- a- as most homeowners don't reseal their grout every year, most homeowners don't touch up caulking [00:19:00] when they see it start to crack a little bit.
Never done it, ever. So like, in those situations, like okay, yeah, you can, that can be one answer to the problem. You know? If, if you're having water intrusions, you can repair your grout. You can repair your caulking. Mm-hmm. If it continues to be a problem, it's no longer a grout and a caulking issue. Okay. But that he kept coming back with-
Jessica Abreu: It's just caulk
Mikki Paradis: it's the caulk, it's the grout. Is it? And it's just like, what? Like, what are you talking about?
Jessica Abreu: It's so ridiculous.
Mikki Paradis: It really is. Um, so-
Jessica Abreu: So she reached a point where she felt something deeper-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: was going on, which is probably why she picked up a hammer and went after her tile.
Mikki Paradis: 100%. So, um-
Jessica Abreu: So imagine standing in the shower-
Mikki Paradis: I can't
Jessica Abreu: in a relatively new home that you paid real money for.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah. And this was, like, her first, like, grown-up home. Grown-up home. Mm. Like she's, y- her entire life savings is invested into this house, and so it is not like a small thing. It is not a small thing.
Jessica Abreu: Nope. [00:20:00] Um, because all houses cost, like, a lot of money now.
Yeah,
Mikki Paradis: it's wild these days.
Jessica Abreu: Like how, buying a house is just crazy. And deciding that the only way you are going to get an answer is to destroy the finishes yourself.
Mikki Paradis: Which is like a massive decision to make. You, like you really have to think about, like, how, how far things have gone for you to get to the point where you were like, "I'm, I'm, I'ma tear up this tile."
Mm-hmm. So once you start that demolition, you may affect the warranty dispute, and that, that is a little tricky little thing- Mm-hmm ... where builders try to get you to not investigate further. So unfortunately, like, the reality of the situation is if you have a water intrusion in your bathroom, you have an issue.
The only way to find out, d- depending on how your house is framed, to really find out what's going on behind there- Mm-hmm ... can be you gotta take a hammer to it.
Jessica Abreu: That is not
Mikki Paradis: what we are
Jessica Abreu: suggesting.
Mikki Paradis: And that can, we are not suggesting that. But it, th- that can then affect your warranty. Mm-hmm. So the builder can go back and say, "Oh, well, [00:21:00] you damaged the tile.
It's not my job to fix that." So a lot of builders will use that idea of, "Oh, if you investigate further by taking off a piece of tile," or, you know, in this case, a hammer to your tile- Yeah ... you're voiding your warranty. Uh, the, she was obviously to the point where she was willing to destroy, you know, to, to throw that caution to the wind.
So, um, you may destroy evidence. You may also expose, um, a condition that needs t- that leads to contamination, um, or d- that you then have to bring in a professional to handle it. So we don't want our viewers to go crazy with the hammer, uh, in their showers. We just, we want you to understand that this was kind of an extreme situation.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah, please do not tag us from a cloud- ... of mystery drywall dust. Please
Mikki Paradis: do not.
Jessica Abreu: Please do not.
Mikki Paradis: We want you to call the, uh, uh, the right professional first. Document everything. Understand the consequences. But this homeowner says that she had reached a point where she no longer [00:22:00] trusted the surface level repairs, which I do not blame her.
Jessica Abreu: Nope, so she took a hammer to the shower.
Mikki Paradis: That's right.
Jessica Abreu: And according to the homeowner, once the finished material came off, she saw a shower pan and waterproofing arrangement that did not look like the continuous system that she had expected.
Now, it's gonna be real bad. Because as a homeowner-
Mikki Paradis: Yeah ...
Jessica Abreu: if I took off my shower tile, and I looked down to see whatever is there- What's happening
Mikki Paradis: down
Jessica Abreu: there? I'm like, I don't even know what I would be looking for.
Mikki Paradis: , I wanna be really careful here. Without a complete assembly, the product list, the installation instructions, um Like how, how it was applied and expert findings. I'm not going to diagnose the entire insulation, um, from like one image.
But what I can imagine, uh, what a shower waterproofing system is, you know, supposed to accomplish. The entire point of, of the way... And most states are, there's, it's a code [00:23:00] requirement. It's not, you just as a builder don't get to willy-nilly decide- Mm-hmm ... how you're going to seal the areas where tile or where a, a shower or bathtub are going.
There's a code requirement for that. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's not dealer's choice. It has to be done in a certain way. So when it is not done in a certain way, it, that way exists because water intrusion can make people really sick. It can be really dangerous. And so that's one of those things where it needs to be a continuous system, and it needs to be sealed.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And, um, full confession- ... as a homeowner, I thought that the tile is what waterproofed my shower.
Mikki Paradis: And a lot of people do. Like, it's, that's so common. Most people would. Tile is the pretty, visible part, but tile and grout are not the complete waterproofing system. Water can pass through grout lines, small cracks, joints, and penetrations.
The assembly [00:24:00] behind or beneath the tile has to manage that moisture and direct it to the drain without allowing it into the, kind of the surrounding structure.
Jessica Abreu: Okay, so the shower pan that she's talking about isn't just the floor that I stand on in my shower.
Mikki Paradis: Exactly. So in everyday language, it's the part of the system that creates a watertight and properly water-managed base beneath the finished shower surface.
So the exact design depends on like the system used, but communities, or sorry, continuity matters. So seams matter, corners matter, and the connection between the drain matters, too. Every piece of like the, the system has to be 100% water-sealed. Mm-hmm. And it also supports the water shedding, which is a really important piece.
Jessica Abreu: Because water does not respect our intention.
Mikki Paradis: No. Water is deeply disrespectful, as we have discussed. And it will find the, kind of the smallest opening. Like, we have this, um, we [00:25:00] have this phrase, like, water seeks its own level. Mm-hmm. So like water in all things, like w- we've had situations where there's been a leak on that side of the house- Mm-hmm
in a roof, and yet the water protrusion happens on the exact other side of the house. And it's because the water just found this path of least resistance. Mm-hmm. It traveled all the way across the house to that spot, and it was easiest for the water to get out of that spot. And so that's just what water does.
Like, it does-
Jessica Abreu: It is ...
Mikki Paradis: what it wants.
Jessica Abreu: It's crazy, which explains why put caulk where the water showed up may not answer where did the water begin?
Mikki Paradis: Exactly. The wet spot is not always the source. If you keep sealing that place where the water exists without finding where it enters, you may only be redirecting it to another concealed area.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. And so the homeowner said that she also found a dark growth, which she believes is mold.
Mikki Paradis: Right. Um, we're going to call it [00:26:00] s- suspicious mold, or what, uh, we've learned in the industry is organic material.
Jessica Abreu: AKA-
Mikki Paradis: That's right ... what
Jessica Abreu: people think- AKA- ... is black mold ...
Mikki Paradis: right, which, what, what she thinks- Could be, mm-hmm
is black mold. And it could be. Um, but because we don't have that, you know, any ki- any kind of testing, we can't say for sure that that's what it is. Mm-hmm. That's just what the homeowner really thinks it is.
Jessica Abreu: But visible growth or staining in a wet wall is not something you ignore.
Mikki Paradis: No, you genuinely should not. It tells you that the moisture, uh, kinda question needs attention. Even the Tennessee Department of Health, um, of Health's Healthy Homes guidance begins with keeping the home dry because damp conditions support mold growth.
Jessica Abreu: And this is when she decided to bring in an ex- an inspector.
Mikki Paradis: So according to the homeowner, the inspector recommended that she vacate the property.
Jessica Abreu: So we do not yet have the written report, so we cannot tell you the specific findings [00:27:00] behind that recommendation. But we can assume that it's not good. 'Cause who's gonna tell you to vacate your home?
Mikki Paradis: Right. And that's the thing is, like, w- so all of these stories that we've shared over almost two years of this podcast, there have only been this and one other story, which was the Jake Mulback story- Mm-hmm ... where an inspector came in and said, "You need to vacate this home immediately," because we, you know, in that case it was that it wasn't structurally unsound.
Mm-hmm. And in this case, and when you watch the, when I watched the, um, news recording of her, she specifically said that the inspector told her that she needed to vacate the home because of, of the mold growth. Mm. So she did say that on, uh, again, we don't have that report, but she said that on the news, uh, that they told her specifically because of the mold she needed to vacate the premises.
And, you know, that report does matter. Was the concern mold? Was it moisture? Was it plumbing? Was it indoor air? It could've been multiple issues. Um, w- and we don't know what that kind of recommendation was. We don't know if it was immediate, if it was temporary, if [00:28:00] it was conditional. Those details, they'll eventually come forward in the- Mm-hmm
in the documentation of the court case, but we haven't received them yet.
Jessica Abreu: Yeah. But all that we know is that the homeowner did leave her home.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, which is just wild.
Jessica Abreu: And yeah. She describes the consequences as devastating. Losing the use of her home, her sense of security, financial stability, possessions, and employment stability.
Mikki Paradis: And those are the homeowner's kind of reported losses. Um- As the kind of precise financial and legal damages remain part of an unresolved dispute. But even before the court assigns responsibility, moving out of the home you believed would provide stability is really, it's just a truly enormous disruption.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm. And the shower was not the only issue that the homeowner said in, that the investigators found.
Mikki Paradis: So she reports that a plumbing vent stack terminated inside the attic instead of being [00:29:00] properly routed outdoors, which is a huge issue, especially, like, when we were talking about that one lady who has all those humidity issues.
Mm-hmm. That's a part of that. Like, it needs to be routed out to get fresh air or it just kind of goes into your attic space. And in the humidity of Tennessee, like, it's just- It's,
Jessica Abreu: it's just-
Mikki Paradis: The moisture is just staying inside the house ... it's just wet.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm. So, um, I guess explain the plumbing vent. Like, I am someone who-
never once looked above the ceiling and would like to keep it that way.
Mikki Paradis: Yeah, you should abs- uh, plumbing vents are really interesting 'cause there's actually a couple different parts of, of the bathroom that need to be vented. So, like, the fart fan, for exa- example. Yeah. So a lot of people's homes, especially if they were built longer, like, lo- longer ago.
Jessica Abreu: Longer ago.
Mikki Paradis: I don't know, a while ago. Professional words. Some time ago. Doing the best I can. Back in the
Jessica Abreu: 1900s. Back in
Mikki Paradis: the day, in the 1900s. Oh, so rude. Yeah, so if your house was built in the 1900s, a lot of people just thought, "Okay, we'll just throw this fan in there." And the whole point of, like, we ca- I call it a fart [00:30:00] fan, I think it's, it's called an exhaust fan.
The, is to pull the moisture out of your, your bathroom when, like, you're having a hot shower- Mm-hmm ... or, like, when there's water going on in the bathroom. So when you have the shower or the bathtub turned on. You flip that on because humidity starts to a- you know, accumulate in the room- Yeah ... and it pulls that out, and it is supposed to exhaust out.
Also, you have an exhaust, like a plumbing exhaust that all of these things have to be tied to the outside of the house. Okay. It can't just go into the attic. Mm-hmm. But it's actually wildly common for things to terminate into the attic. It's not right, but it's common. It shouldn't exist, though, in a new construction home because, one, that shouldn't have passed inspection.
Mm-hmm.
But also, two, these are things we know better. Like, a lot of stuff happened in the 1900s because they didn't know any better. Like, they didn't know that, okay, this could- We were learning ... right, we were learning. Now we know better. You don't terminate any exhaust fans in your bathroom into the attic space.
Just not okay.
Jessica Abreu: , So the homeowner associat- this alleged con- alleged [00:31:00] condition with odors or exposure concerns and with her health experience.
Mikki Paradis: And again, we can't make any kind of medical c- medical connection. But what I think is really important to understand is, one, this was a new construction build.
Jessica Abreu: Mm-hmm.
Mikki Paradis: This was a repeated issue where the homeowner went back to the builder and said, "Hey, listen, something's going on here. You know, there's water coming into the house."
Mm-hmm. "There's weird smells in the house." S- like, "Something is not working correctly." And this is kind of the part where, like, th- watching that podcast irritated- Mm ... the bejeezus out of me because he calls her, um, a witch. He calls her a nut job. He doesn't take any of her concerns seriously. Says that she's just
she, she was picking apart the home to try and find something. So instead of saying, "I have this client who spent over half a million dollars on a house- Mm-hmm ... that I built brand new. My [00:32:00] first house. The first house I ever built." Like, he's so arrogant that he doesn't even have the, the for- like, the, the know-it-all to say- Mm-hmm
like, "Hey, it actually was my first house. Like, I was learning." Right. "I could have made a mistake." And this woman is saying, like, she's having problems. Like, her, her health is failing. She's not ... she, so she reported, like, having extreme brain fog. Like, all of these- Oh ... things that are associated- Mm-hmm ... with mold toxicity.
She w- you know, she was just like, "Something is wrong. Something is wrong. There's water getting into the house." And instead of him being like, "All right, let me just ... Because I have a responsibility as the person who built this house, I have a responsibility to make sure that you're safe in your home. Let me just take your serious r- r- results seriously."
What would it have cost him to be the one to take that hammer to the shower? Well, he could- Yeah ... have had c- had his tile guy back out there if there was nothing behind it. He coulda had his tile guy out there to fix it. Maybe it woulda cost him a couple hundred dollars. Mm-hmm. So, like, to [00:33:00] take her concerns seriously, it woulda cost him a couple hundred dollars.
But her health and her, like, her life was so invaluable to this dude. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter to him that he had not just the audacity to not take her things, her concerns for the over half a million dollar home that she bought from him seriously. Mm-hmm. But then he has the audacity to go on a podcast and call her a nut job and a witch.
Yeah. Like-
Mm-mm ...
she has proof that this man did something wrong in the construction of the home, and it didn't have to be a lawsuit. No. It could have been a situation where he owned it up. Rip out the entire shower. Even that- Well- ... would've cost you less than this lawsuit's going to ...
Jessica Abreu: and, like, I feel like if he had taken her concerns seriously, maybe not the first time.
Maybe the first time he thought it was the caulk. Maybe
Mikki Paradis: the- Right, which is fair. Okay ... fine. You thi-
Jessica Abreu: But, like, the second time it happens, like, at that point- Yeah ... you should know that there's something else going on. By the third time, [00:34:00] absolutely. And that's- Yeah ... when, like- Just do the right thing. It w- And it, it would have caused...
Everything wouldn't have been-
Mikki Paradis: Right ... bad. That's the whole thing. Like, even if it just turned out th- that, that there was nothing there and he had to spend a couple hundred dollars to put the shower back together. Yeah. Or even if it was a couple thousand dollars. You know how much attorneys cost these days?
Like- Right ... they're in active litigation. He's spending thousands upon thousands of dollars to try to defend this lawsuit.
Jessica Abreu: It's crazy.
Mikki Paradis: And it's just like- And it's
Jessica Abreu: crazy that it passed inspection ...
Mikki Paradis: that's the thing, too, is like- Mm ... and, and we've talked about this so much on the show, that, that there's so many different layers that when, when, when you're working with a GC who's so egotistical that they're not gonna take your health concerns seriously, that they're not gonna take your complaint seriously, that is a failure in and of itself.
And then, you know, it, the inspector misses something. They're, they're, they're not paying attention. They don't catch something. All of these things can kind of stack up and put you as the homeowner in the worst position. Yeah. And kind of now you're having [00:35:00] to fight to get the value of your home back. And unfortunately in this case, this guy was so unbelievably arrogant.
I do, I, I really am gonna follow this case closely because I, I can't wait for him to lose. Like, I
Jessica Abreu: need the witches- And when he does, we will tell you all about it. I need
Mikki Paradis: the witches to make it
so. So with that, if you have had a, a story that you wanna share with us that you think our audience would benefit from knowing, like, "Hey, this happened, and here's how we can avoid it, and here's how you, the audience, can avoid it," we would love it if you would share it with us.
You can go to chicksinconstruction.com. You kinda scroll down. There's a little form. You can fill it out. It'll come to us. We will read it. We will not say your name- Never ... even if I mess up and Joe has to edit it out. Don't you worry. We're here for you. Jess, where can they find us on the socials?
Jessica Abreu: On Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, it's @chicksinconstructionpodcast.
On TikTok, it's @chicksinconstruction. Make sure you like and follow.
Mikki Paradis: Like, follow, subscribe, and listen. [00:36:00] Remember, don't upset the witches. All right? We love you. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. All
