Lilith Untamed with Christina Rodenbeck

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What happens in the sky affects life down here on Earth.
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The Celestial Compass shows you how and guides your way
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with astrology you can use from professional astrologer Kathy Beeal.
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Every episode features her lighthearted, practical forecasts and navigational tips,
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blended with humor, optimism, and a love of patterns, symbolism,
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and pop culture references. Kathy translates technicalities into concepts that
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apply to real life. You'll learn how the current moment
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ties to where we've been, from the recent past, to
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cycles that last happened years ago, and get a look
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at where we're heading and much more. From special topics
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to special guests, The Celestial Compass enlightening, entertaining, and empowering.
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Here's your host, Kathy.
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Beale creating Sir Things. I'm Kathy Beale of Empowerment Unlimited
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dot Net and the Professional Aquarian YouTube channel. Welcome you
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to Celestial Compass. We're in the middle of June twenty
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twenty six and we are starting to make They were
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on the on ramp to big, big changes that will
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be coming or locking into place, or firing up might
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be a better word for it. In the middle of July,
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the middle of June has relationships and money and what
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we value getting fired up as Venus runs the gauntlet
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of the outer planets and opens us to new possibilities,
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possibly even great incredible inspiration. Take some time off, take
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some time off and see what the sky is telling you,
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what your own heart is telling you. Excellent, excellent time
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for finding the divine in things around you with Venus
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in an easy aspect to Neptune. And then we kind
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of get really serious about what matters most to us
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and maybe figure out that there's some things we're not
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going to quite get. And this takes us into the solstice,
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which is when the sun moves into the sign of Cancer.
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It's the it starts summer in the Northern hemisphere winter
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in the Southern Hemisphere. And all of this kind of
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re evaluation and change energy that's around desires and money
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and creativity and relationships is part of the chart in
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the background program for the next three months. And as
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we get into the near the end of the month,
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Mars planet, a push cosmic first responder planet of action,
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heads into the sign of Gemini, which is excellent for multitasking,
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for doing multiple different things for a lot of mental
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activity and communication and maybe fighting with words, and he
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is heading into his own run through the gauntlet of
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outer planets, which will be extremely hot and noticeable over
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the fourth of July weekend. But the main thing to
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take away is that on the let me see, I
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get the date correct here hold. On twenty ninth, Mercury
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makes its second starts at second retrograde of the year
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in the sign of Cancer. Everything all communications are going
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to be run through our emotions and through feelings, which
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just adds another layer of potential complication for the confusion
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and the misunderstanding that often comes in a Mercury retrograde.
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But I am betting this one is going to have
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us actually expressing a lot of how we've been feeling
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about things that have been going on. Mercury will be
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retrograde until the twenty third of July, and as we
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get at the very end of the month, Venus I'm sorry,
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Jupiter ends a twelve year cycle twelve well twelve month cycle,
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thirteen months possibly, but he comes back around again to
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where he was twelve years ago in the sign of Leo,
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which is a very expansive, self expressive energy. Leo is
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a sign of the child, it's a sign of royalty,
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and Jupiter will be heading toward his date with the
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other outer planets in the middle of June, so you
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can follow all of this In my forecasts, I have
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them for every week, for every new moon, every full moon.
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There's a full moon in Capricorn at the end of
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the month as well, which will give us kind of
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a status report on how firmly our feet are on
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the ground and what's the state of our our own
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personal foundations and institutions. But my forecasts are also a monthly.
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My forecasts are at Empowerment Unlimited dot net the Professional
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Aquarian YouTube channel, and the monthly and mooncasts are at
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olm Times dot com. Also, I have an analysis of
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the solstice chart available as a standalone purchase at my
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Patreon Patreon dot com slash Kathybile, which means this for
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a few dollars, you can get it without having to
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join the Patreon. One final thing, a Nette Dion and
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I are having a Solstice party on Monday the twenty second.
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We'll be talking about the meaning of the solstice and
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She'll be doing psychic greetings for the group. I'll talk
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about the astrology of what's going on? Dress up where Garlands.
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We always have a lot of fun. And if you
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go to Empowerment Unlimited dot net there is a big
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orange stripe across the top with a direct link to
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the sign up page. No Kidoki. Enough of all that.
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I am very excited, very excited to have a wonderful
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writer and astrologer joining us today, Christina roden Beck, the
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Oxford astrologer. She has years of experience researching and explaining
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astrology and how it works in real life, which is
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something I particularly like. She sees astrology as a living
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and evolving system of wisdom, and she is here to
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discuss her new book, Lilith Untamed. Welcome, Thank you so
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much out Yay, there's the book, Lilith Untamed. Hi being here,
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I'm always be here and it's very late. Everybody we're
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making she's making. She actually is in Oxford's accurately named
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no Truth in Advertising Problem here. I always like to
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ask guests who are on for the first time how
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they came to astrology? Would you mind telling us how
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you found it?
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Well, I you know, I was thinking about this actually,
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and you know why. I can hardly remember a time
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when I didn't have astrology because I grew up in
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the seventies when astrology was kind of around, it was
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kind of current, and I remember my but I do
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remember my very first encounter with astrology because it was
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like I also fell in love. So I was six,
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and it was one of my dad's students. He was
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a professor, and he had some of his students around
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at the house because it was the seventies, right, and
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he was a very handsome Greek boy called Costa. I
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even remember his name, Costa Banacus, and he said, my
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dad introduced me, and Costa said, oh, you're a pisces too,
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just like me. And at that point I thought, oh
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my god, what's the pisces. I need to find out
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and and I was so pleased to have that connection
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with that person. But then, of course, you know, I
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I did carry on being interested in astrology as soon
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as I could kind of pick up a book and read.
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I had, you know, Linda Goodman, I think. And I
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was talking to some old school friends of mine actually
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last year, and they said, of course, we remember you
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had the big book. You always looked everybody up for us.
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We have so much in common, it's scary you had
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the big book.
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That's the thing, isn't it. So I had the big book.
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And then I have to say in my teenage years
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I was lessened to astrology actually, but then I came
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back to it in my twenties when I was living
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in London, and which is a great place to study astrology,
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or it was then there was, there was, There were
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opportunities to attend very good lectures, and that's how I
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got back into it.
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Excellent, excellent. And at some point you decided, I think
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I will write about this. I think I will consult
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with clients about this.
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Yes, I did when I when I moved here to Oxford,
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and when I had small children, I thought this is
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My partner was like, you know you do that. You're
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so obsessed. You should do this. You're so obsessed. What
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you know? You do it all the time. Anyway, just
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do it all the time. So I did.
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All right, Well, then, what what led you to Lilith?
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What led me to Lilith? Now that's a really good question.
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Lilith is such a mysterious person is and she's such
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a mysterious point. And I have Lilith on my descendant, right,
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So Lilith is always looking at me, and I was
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looking around and I think that, you know, I noticed
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some I think Lilith comes up and very I thought,
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that's a very interesting look at people's charts and put
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Lilith in that. It seemed to be very significant. Especially,
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I mean there was there were I don't didn't have
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a specific moment with lilith, thinking yes, But when I
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was thinking about this book actually and thinking about, you know,
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who really really crystallizes lilith? For me, I thought of
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the singer Amy Winehouse was one of the first, you know,
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who I wanted to talk about, and you know, I
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wasn't sure where her lilyth was. I thought, you must be,
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she must have a big lilith. And she does. She
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has lilith on the mid heaven. And that's when you
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start working with lilith, you find. So that's the way
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I work as I tend to think who who would
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have a big lilith, you know, and then you look,
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you know, like, I don't know, led Zeppelin, they have
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big liliths. Those guys. A lot of rock stars have
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a lolith in the tenth or the ninth you know,
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they have it up there because you need that kind
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of rock and roll energy that Lilith gives you, which
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actually is one way of thinking about Lilith is the
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rock and roll energy. So I looked up Amy, and
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of course she does have an Amy winehouse. You know,
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I'm sure everybody remembers her. She died at twenty seven,
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but which is also quite you know, quite lilithy. But
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she embodied Lilith for the collective, I think, and she
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has it on the mid heaven and then and anyway,
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so when I when I was looking at people's charts,
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I realized that Lilith was really significant in certain people's charts.
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I'm thinking also about wait, a long time ago now,
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like maybe fifteen years ago, my little Oxford astrology group
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we thought, oh, we'll look at Lilith. We're going to
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look at Lilith. And we looked at the charts of
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we looked a long charts and we found a lot
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of feminists had Lilith in the first house or Lilith
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in the third house. But then we also found a
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lot of serial killers also have these really strong loaithts.
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So it's a very complicated point.
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We should probably define some terms here. Now, you in
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the book say Lilith is an archetype of the untamed
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sliver of self uh and and there's several ways to
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look at her. There's the archetype of lilith, there's an
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asteroid lilith, and then there is black moon lilith. What's
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the difference between the asteroid and black moon.
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I don't use the asteroid. Okay, we're not talking about
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the asteroid, so that I don't just be completely clear
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about that.
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Yeah, people get if you were to go to their
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program and look it up, it's gonna say lilith and
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that's not what you're looking for.
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Well, it probably is, actually because it's generally the black
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man the lift that comes up, so that the thing
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that you're looking for in your software program is that
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little the black sickle, Right, that's what it'll come up as.
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And that is the apergy of the moon. It's the
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it's actually a point in the sky. It's not it's
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not an object, right, So it's like one of them,
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you know how the nodes are not objects. These are
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calculations that we're looking at. And it's a calculation that
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is the apergy of the moon. It's the further the
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Moon's furthest point which moves around. It takes about nine
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It takes about nine months in a sign, and it
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takes about nine years to go through. I love the
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nines as well. It's about nine years to go through
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the entire zodiac, and even I think it might be
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nine days in a degree. So it's nines, which is
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kind of interesting if you're into numbers, if you're interested
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in numbers. But it's so it's a notional point in
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the sky, which does not mean it's not significant because
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as we know, people who most astrologers these days, I think,
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use the notes of the moon, which are also notional
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points in the sky, but have been used by our
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Vedic colleagues for you know, fifteen hundred years. So, but
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she was on this point was really discovered by Kepler
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when he realized that they orbits of the planets, that
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everything is elliptical rather than circular. So but then it
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wasn't really didn't really hasn't really been used in astrology
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until the twentieth century.
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In the thirties, right, is that when it started.
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I mean the earliest source that I could find, I
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mean there was again, this is something that people might
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be that actually is part of the symbolism of land
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is like, which lily are we talking about? Who is
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the lilith? Is there an asteroid? Who? And there have
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been other attempts to call different things lilith. For example,
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in the beginning of the twentieth century, there was the Sepharial,
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the British astrologer called something lilith, which was like a
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second moon that they thought was rotating around the Earth.
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There is no second moon around the Earth doesn't exist.
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So there are all these kind of false leads with lilith,
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these sort of dead ends, these But the first that
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00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.320
I could find of lilith really being used is by
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00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:43.399
French astrologers. Narroman who was a very famous French astrologer,
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and he wrote about lilith in the nineteen thirties. That's
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when he first started writing about it in some of
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the French magazines, astrological magazines.
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Oddly, I mean I started studying astrology in the eighties
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and the first I heard of her was in the
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last ten or fifteen years, to be honest. So she's
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coming more and more into consciousness or my husband in
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the sand, both are possible. But so you.
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I was going to say, I don't think it's you.
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00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.799
I think it's you know it, she hasn't. She was
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used in France and Holland and Germany quite a lot,
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but she wasn't in the anglosphere at all.
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So I guess we should talk a little bit about
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the archetype of Lilith and where this, where this, what
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this energy is, and where it came from. She was
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Adam's first wife.
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Right, the one that we don't talk about.
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We don't talk about, yeah.
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She I mean then the word Lilith, right, the name
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Lilith is very ancient. It's an ancient name for some
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kind of demones who predates the Bible. Right, So she's talked,
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00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:05.680
you know, very old inscriptions in the Nearies to have
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00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.559
their inscriptions about Lily or Lilith, and she's a terrifying
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female demoness. And then the first you know, one of
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the first stories in the West that I can find
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00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:27.839
is in uh is in it's I want to say,
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00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:35.920
Jewish writing around religion. So it's cabalistic writing, right, cabbalistic writing.
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00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:40.880
And there's a story that Adam had a wife before Eve,
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that she wanted him, she wanted to be on top
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basically when they were having sex. Right, she wanted to
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be on top, which was like a big no no,
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and they had an argument about it, and God said,
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you know you and you can't do that, and she said,
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yes I can. And if I'm not allowed to do that,
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I'm leaving. I'm getting out of here. So she left,
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and this is told as like a funny story in
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the source that I used. It's a funny story. So
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she leaves, she grows leathery wings, she leaves, She goes
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00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.240
down to the Red Sea, and she has loads of babies,
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and then she has a boyfriend called who's a demon,
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con Smael. But then she becomes this terrifying figure which
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00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:31.079
who eats babies and kidnaps children. So there are a
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00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.880
lot of artifacts that have been found which have these
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they're called incantation bowls with incantations against Lilith to protect
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00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.359
the new mothers and babies, which of course is an
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00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:49.799
incredibly critical moment. You know, when people died, really is
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00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:54.559
when a lot of women died in childbirth, and still
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00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.759
do in certain parts of the world. But this is
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00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.599
a very dangerous moment in that liminal and when babies
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00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.079
are born is the moment that Lilith could come along
291
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:10.200
and swipe your baby and steal the baby. So that's
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00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.720
part of the story. And then of course she becomes
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00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.640
very important, you know, she there's quite a lot of
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references to Lilith from the Middle Ages onwards in the West.
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00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.640
She's even on the you can see there's paintings of
296
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:34.039
there are lots of little little paintings in medieval manuscripts
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00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.519
of Adam, Eve and then and the serpent. Right, but
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the serpent has a woman's face, and some people would
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00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.240
say that that and even sometimes she mirrors Eve, so
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00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.720
she even has the same face as Eve. So kind
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00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.680
of we sort of often think of that serpents as male,
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00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.440
but what if it's female? Right, So sometimes this cast
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is a female thing, and that's literally in the iconography.
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00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.559
And then she starts to appear in literature. You know,
305
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.359
she's in I want to say, she's in faust. I
306
00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.640
think that's right. And she's certainly in nineteenth century paintings,
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00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.480
and the whole idea of the fum fatale which becomes
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which is such a big part of culture in the
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00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:21.400
nineteenth century, is associated with with Lilith, and she's you know,
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she's there's a there was a book written by ooh,
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I've forgotten his name, but one of the first fantasy
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00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.200
books ever is called Lilith, and it's about Lilith, a
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scary version of Lilith. And this so she has many
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00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:42.559
kind of masks or many attributes. Some of it is
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00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:46.720
to do with being, you know, kind of vagina dentata,
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00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:52.440
you know, a terrifying female sexual being who actually wants
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00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:58.240
to who's conscious of her own sexual desire, which and
318
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:02.279
of course female desire is something that people were so frightened.
319
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.759
So what am I saying we are frightened of?
320
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:13.440
And and I found if she's carried on as an
321
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:17.480
archetype in twentieth century culture in a variety of ways.
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00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:20.440
As you say this, I think about Theda Bara and
323
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:28.039
the whole vamp notion from Silent films and leading into
324
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.279
a character on the sitcom Cheers and Frasier of this
325
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.480
horrifying cold wife named Lilith who is very and.
326
00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:43.279
Yeah, she's brilliant, isn't she Lilith? Oh yeah, oh yeah.
327
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.319
And of course there's a marvel thing. I think there's
328
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.720
some kind of comic thing now with cold Lilith. So
329
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.359
it's right up until and once you start to understand
330
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:59.119
this archetype of this terrifying, devaring woman. You see her
331
00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.920
everywhere right in the culture and in fiction. There are many,
332
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:11.440
many examples of Lilith type women who are independent, which
333
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:20.160
is also terrifying, independent, maybe sexually hungry, quite often adultresses.
334
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:28.279
In if you've read The Magic Mountain, Uh, yeah, she's
335
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:33.920
just Madam Shoucha is described as a Lilith in that,
336
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.759
And that's a beautiful She's wonderful, isn't she. She's wonderful
337
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.759
in that, she's so alluring, So there's a there's a
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00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:47.400
there's an allure about Lilith as well, and even I
339
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.440
mean the whole it's interesting that you bring up that
340
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:54.279
kind of fit about vampiric. There's a vampiric aspect to Lilith,
341
00:22:54.319 --> 00:23:00.279
I think, And of course you know in astrology, this
342
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.839
is astrologers that we tend. You don't want to over
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00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.720
gender something even because you could say, is there a
344
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.319
male kind of version of Lilith, right, and what is that?
345
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What would that be? Because it's easy for us to say, oh,
346
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.440
it's kind of you know, in the culture sometimes it's
347
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.480
like an animal figure. For me, it's terrifying Lilith, right,
348
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.839
so what would what would a woman's animals figure? What
349
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.119
would your scary man be? And that was really so,
350
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.359
you know, as astrologery sort of think well what would
351
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:32.440
that be? Who? Who's where has that been? Where has
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00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.079
that appeared? And I it was very obvious to me. Again,
353
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it's like the any one has saying that Heathcliff is
354
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a version of Lilith. Okay, why is that? He is wild,
355
00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.720
he's untamable, he's horrible. I remember reading that book thinking
356
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why would she have anything to do with him? But
357
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.519
Emily Bronte, who wrote Wuthering Heights, I mean, he is
358
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.359
an incredible characters and he's a character for the Ages, right.
359
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:05.359
I'm not sure about Jacob Alordi being Heathcliff, but anyway,
360
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:12.200
he's too nice looking. Heathcliff. She has, she has Lilith
361
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:16.920
on her descendant, right, so in her partnership, so he's
362
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:22.839
her her dream partner is Lilith? Is this Heathcliff person.
363
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.240
So that's quite interesting when you start to flip that
364
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.880
with astrology. Instead of getting kind of very stuck in
365
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.160
these you know, Venus's girls, Saturn his boys thing, we
366
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:34.720
don't want to think like that, do you want to
367
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:35.519
think creatively.
368
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:39.160
As you say all this, I keep thinking of rock
369
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.519
stars that became promin us in the late sixties in
370
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.400
the early seventies with huge heads of hair and being
371
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.720
just voracious. I mean, Jim Morrison keeps coming to mind.
372
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.960
I want to go look at his chart now. Yeah, yeah,
373
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:55.920
I haven't.
374
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:57.799
Got to Marrison. I have looked at it, and I
375
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.480
know he's got a big lilith. I mean, I keep
376
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:02.480
like I was saying, I was thinking led Zeppelin. I
377
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.960
know that Jimmy Page has this lilith on the mid heaven.
378
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.279
You know, I think it's even conjunct the north note
379
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.799
or something like that. It's crazy strong lilith a lot
380
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:14.160
of rock, Yeah, exactly, That's what I keep on thinking.
381
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.400
It's true as well. And you look at them and
382
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.200
you will find they have this lilith is coming out,
383
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.039
you know, and lilith also kind of comes and goes
384
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:26.000
in the culture that kind of do or how are
385
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.319
we addressing it? How are we addressing the lilith? And
386
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.039
you know she and I think that she does erupt
387
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.920
in the late sixties, early seventies, even you know, actually
388
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.319
into the eighties, even those head metal guys.
389
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.240
Oh yeah, pretty Lilith, aren't they glam rock? You got
390
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:50.200
it hairbands? Yeah, well, this is probably a good place
391
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:53.079
to take a pause. Briefly, I want to talk to
392
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.599
you about working with Lilith in your own chart and
393
00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.559
what she means in different houses and things like that.
394
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.880
But we're We'll be back in just a couple of minutes,
395
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.079
so hang on, everybody. It's only going to continue to
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00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:06.720
be interesting.
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417
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00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:50.400
If I could be you could be me just one hour,
419
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:57.039
if we could find a way to get inside each
420
00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:58.039
other's mine.
421
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.440
Welcome my shoes.
422
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:11.359
Welcome and my shoes. Well before you abuse, criticiance and accused.
423
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.279
Welcome Milanes.
424
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:21.440
Welcome back to Celestial Compass. We're talking to Christina Rodenbeck,
425
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:27.000
author of Lilith Untamed Right. I got it right. I
426
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:28.680
tried to look up Jim Morrison in the break. All
427
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.480
I got was that he has Pluto conjunct his north
428
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.759
node on his descendant. Okay, so that speaks to it
429
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:40.920
as far as I'm concerned. So in your book, besides
430
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.119
it putting Lilith in context with the development of the archetype,
431
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:50.720
you do have a lot of information to help people
432
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:55.319
see how she plays out in different signs and how
433
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.440
she has expressed herself in different houses. And I love
434
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.400
some of the strange bedfellows that come up out of this.
435
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:08.160
I mean Putin and Obama. Okay, wouldn't have thought of
436
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:14.400
that one, but uh yeah, putin Picasso and Obama. That
437
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:19.839
got me. But also there's the information about the transits.
438
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:23.279
You point out that when Lilith was in Sagittarius, that
439
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:24.960
was the rise of the me too movement.
440
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:28.680
Yeah, and we're back actually as well. She's back and
441
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:32.920
Sagittarius at the moment, and I'm finding that quite interesting.
442
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:38.000
I mean, she's been there since November last year, and
443
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.839
what have we got. We've had the Epstein files, which
444
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.279
may I say that one of the things that I
445
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:48.599
do associate with Linmouth is sexual abuse, both the victims
446
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.640
and the perpetrators, because we know, again we know this
447
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:54.799
from astrology that you get it in both, right, the
448
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:57.599
people who do this bad stuff and the people who
449
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:02.200
suffer from it. But she's been back and Sagittarius. Why
450
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:06.119
is that a thing? Because Sactarius is about publishing, right,
451
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:10.279
So what happened is those files got published and we
452
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:13.400
the whole kind of Lilith story has come out, and
453
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:18.000
you do see Lilith when you have cases of abuse.
454
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.200
Take a look at I haven't Virginia dephrase chart is
455
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:25.759
not in this book because I don't go down that route.
456
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:31.559
But she has Lilith. Is it directly opposite her son?
457
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.400
It's in the seventh anyway, So she was confronting Lilith
458
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.440
in its worst aspect. But there are very good aspects
459
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:42.480
of Lith as well. So it's again it's like all
460
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:46.480
astrological symbolism, you can you can use it for good
461
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.480
or for not good. So it's incredibly creative for people.
462
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:54.279
Quite often you get it in very creative charts or
463
00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:58.839
just one of when you're talking about strange bedfellows. I
464
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.839
do think in my book, I use a lot of examples,
465
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:05.759
a lot of stories, because I think the way that
466
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:09.599
you understand to understand astrology is through stories and through
467
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:14.319
people and through real stuff, through reality, you know. But
468
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.000
so I was thinking about one, you know, various examples
469
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.880
of how you see things in a new way with
470
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.799
astrology when you understand that people have this these things
471
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.519
that are the same. And I find the story of
472
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:34.680
Marilyn Monroe and el Fitzgerald really incredible that they both
473
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:39.559
have lilith on the ascendant, not just kind of vaguely
474
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.200
on the ascendant, like bang on the ascendant, right, So
475
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.519
they have the same lilith essentially, and they of course
476
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.680
they knew each other. Everybody knows the story of Marylyn
477
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:56.759
being helpful to Elia Fitzgerald. They're both completely iconic. You know,
478
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:02.759
Marilyn's face, Ela Fitzgerald's voice are still with us now,
479
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.480
and they're both somehow channeling that lilith which has a
480
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.319
kind of hidden a kind of magic about it. As
481
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:13.960
well as all that there's the difficult stuff, but there's
482
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.960
a kind of magic power charisma that you get with
483
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.559
lilith when it's well placed. As we were saying, this
484
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.680
rock and roll, the rock and roll thing, obviously both
485
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.880
of them are pre rock and roll, but there's something
486
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.680
about them that is so charismatic. And I find it
487
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:36.799
also interesting that both of those women they have legacy
488
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:41.079
with that. You know, it's long lasting, that lilith. It's
489
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:45.119
not a fly by night thing. It's that because what
490
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:48.559
is what is that lilith energy? It's a kind of
491
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:54.960
very deepthonic energy that comes right up from the hidden
492
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.000
places or from the places that we can't see because
493
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:01.240
it's the dark moon. You know. It's the place where
494
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:06.119
the moon isn't, so to speak, that hidden place, and
495
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.759
there's some kind of power that comes through there when
496
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.799
someone has that right on the ascendant for example. So
497
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.759
look at your own charts. It'll tell you a lot.
498
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:23.079
This is the untamed self and working with your lilth,
499
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.039
being creative with your lith, allowing your lilith out and
500
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.279
around helps to kind of rebalance things.
501
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.000
So I'm just wondering if someone could read that and
502
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.119
they think it, and I guess it would just occur
503
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.359
to a native, a person who resonates with Oh, I
504
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:44.240
see what this means. I mean, my own example is
505
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.119
I was fairly surprised to find out what sign mine
506
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:49.559
is in, and then I thought about it and when
507
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.720
this makes a lot of sense. So how is there
508
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.039
some other way I can express this?
509
00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:57.640
Yeah?
510
00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:59.920
My reaction? Might that be one way? If somebody would
511
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.000
would go about this.
512
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:05.279
Yes, I would say, first of all, don't keep it,
513
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:09.199
squish it, don't push it down. You need to think
514
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.079
of some way of integrating it or letting it out,
515
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.760
you know how. And sometimes I mean, lilith also connects
516
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:21.440
you with can also has a connection with nature, you know,
517
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:28.000
and with animals sometimes and that connection that can be
518
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.559
someone way into your lilith is how you're connecting with
519
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.159
wild nature. Not it's not about gardening, let's put it
520
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.079
like that. It's about going and you know, getting your
521
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:40.239
hair messed up on a wild mountain side or if
522
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:44.639
you you know, if you you may find that you
523
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.440
have patterns in your life. Of course you do. We
524
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.400
all do. We have, you know, relationship patterns that we
525
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:54.880
fall into, right, and you know, if Lilith is in
526
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.599
your seventh house, that may explain why you fall in
527
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:03.880
love with wild crazy people who take you to the edge.
528
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.719
And because this is another thing about liliths, she takes
529
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:11.320
you to the edge of things. Like again back to
530
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.239
our Amy Winehouse example, she went over the edge and
531
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:18.239
fell off right. She fell off the edge because she
532
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:22.960
was pushed by that lilith. She had Lilith in Aquarius,
533
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:28.039
actually on the mid heaven. So finding where your Lilith
534
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.719
is can show you where you're extreme, where you become extreme,
535
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.800
where you do too much. I happen to know where
536
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:37.760
yours is, Kathy, because you've told me.
537
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:41.880
Yeah, I'll say it. Mine's in Capricorn. Really Okay, I'm
538
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:45.760
a workaholic. That's hysterical. But as you're saying this, I'm
539
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:50.480
thinking it might be fascinating to compare the liliths of
540
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.320
all of the rock and roll members of the twenty
541
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.679
seven Club, the people who died at the age of
542
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:57.840
twenty seven. Now I am fascinated. Now I must look
543
00:35:57.880 --> 00:35:58.320
into this.
544
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.039
Yeah, yeah, I think I may have Jeff Buckley in
545
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.599
here as well. I certainly have Amy twenty seven Club person.
546
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:08.199
Who else is there in that.
547
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.679
Way more Jimmy Hendricks, Janis Joplin.
548
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.320
Yeah, So I think it would be interesting because they
549
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.320
they they are expressing, especially I mean you can see it,
550
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:23.079
especially in Jimmy Hendrix, I feel and in Jennie Joplin
551
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:28.760
that that kind of wild outsider energy that gets channeled
552
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.199
and can be too much and can be overwhelming, can't it. So,
553
00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.360
But we all have all the planets and all the
554
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.079
points that are inside all of us, but they're and
555
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.239
they're coming out somewhere. So for artists it's really useful
556
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.920
to have that to know and understand that lilith. I
557
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.760
think Picasso again is another one on the ascendant, right,
558
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.960
so it's coming straight out from him and he's you know,
559
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:56.800
say what you like about him. I don't know. He's
560
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:00.800
a nasty man. I think, probably not a nice man.
561
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:03.920
But he was a great artist, right, and he was
562
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.119
also incredibly prolific. He didn't stop. He started when he
563
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.199
was seven years old or six years old, and he
564
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.199
went on until he was ninety three or whatever. Then
565
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.000
you know, he went on for nine decades of art
566
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:18.719
from one person, and he painted or did something all
567
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:22.320
the time. He never stopped. And I think that never
568
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:26.519
stopping this is also a little thing. But you're never stopping,
569
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:29.119
maybe like working all the time, or it may be
570
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.920
kind of OCD of some kind, or it may be singing.
571
00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:35.840
You know, it's not going to be the same for everyone.
572
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.679
So I think it's really helpful to know the house
573
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.280
that is in as well, so you know the in
574
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.039
my book, I have done a very sort of traditional
575
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:48.760
astrological thing because I thought it was nothing has really
576
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:52.920
been written about it in English to just structured in
577
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.840
a structured way. There's been some vague writing about it,
578
00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:57.559
but in a structured way. You know, this is what
579
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.679
it does in the sign, this is what it does
580
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:03.880
in the house. So I've used a lot of examples
581
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.119
of real people, you know, because I think that they
582
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:13.880
especially they help you when you can see how it's
583
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:18.639
working in the charts of certain people, you can Jennifer
584
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:20.639
Aniston is a good example. You know, she has a
585
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:26.000
very highly placed Lilith. She has and this is something
586
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.000
I also go into in the book, is that there's
587
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.360
a mean Lilith and a true Lilith, just to confuse
588
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:32.800
things more because of course we lilith likes to be
589
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.280
a little bit confusing, which creates a sort of pathway
590
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:40.079
sometimes through people's charts. Sometimes they're very close together and
591
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:43.480
sometimes it's quite wide. And Jennifer Aniston's is right across
592
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:45.840
this part of her chart. That's to do with kind
593
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:51.159
of publicity in her public image, and it's I think
594
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.440
it starts in Gemini and goes into cancer. And of
595
00:38:54.480 --> 00:39:01.199
course she famously doesn't have kids, and she and she
596
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:05.480
was also part of a famous love triangle. I guess
597
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.239
you'd call it an adulterous thing. You know, her husband
598
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.159
was stolen from her basically, or however we want to talk.
599
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:14.440
I don't know what happened, but basically, somehow he ended
600
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:18.840
up being with Angelina and Jolie and that is a
601
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:23.039
very limouth story, that story of betrayal. And you find
602
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:29.800
that you get these lilith transits with adultery and relationship
603
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.639
three way relationships, and sometimes those are like three way
604
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:38.280
friendships that can work or not work. But it may
605
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.199
make you think of that Adam Eve with Lilith in
606
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:46.559
the middle, right, And it really is true that I've
607
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:50.559
seen this over and over again with transits. Or say,
608
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:55.079
if you have Lyth rising, you may find yourself in
609
00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:00.360
the position of the third of the mistress frankly, or
610
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.199
what's the guy what's a boy mistress called Kathy?
611
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:08.039
I don't know, Cabana boy side piece, I don't know.
612
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.239
Of yeah, exactly of bit on the side, I'd say
613
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:16.320
the bit on the side. You find yourself in the
614
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.480
position of the bit on the side, and you may
615
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:23.320
find that repeatedly or having a very long term secret
616
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:29.159
relationship three way relationship. So knowing these, knowing that that
617
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:34.159
there's a Lilith involved there can help you by watching
618
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:38.119
the transits and just explain, you know, as with all astrology,
619
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.519
you know, explaining why you do what you do, what
620
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:46.360
your patterns are, is useful in itself.
621
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:52.639
I found it very easy reading the descriptions of figuring
622
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:56.960
out real life stories in my face, in my environment
623
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.599
that fit perfectly. I sent you a couple of them.
624
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:03.480
I will sanitize one of them without identifying the person.
625
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:10.039
Someone with lilith in cancer in the eighth House, which
626
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.239
is a house of sexuality and secrets, and had way
627
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.880
too close an emotional relationship with his mother and then
628
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:28.079
married a woman who just had so many affairs with strangers.
629
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:32.559
Once the boards went up on the internet that he
630
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:36.159
actually DNA tested one of his kids to make certain.
631
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:42.599
So when I realized that, I went, oh, this is
632
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:46.559
a perfect play out of this and pull it in.
633
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:50.599
And you don't. You don't like, what's the word I'm
634
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:54.440
thinking of here? Get it? You don't deal with it
635
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.519
in yourself, So it plays out in the world in
636
00:41:57.559 --> 00:41:58.000
your face.
637
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:02.800
Yeah, And I think you know, and often we can't
638
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.360
help it, you know, like sometimes like if you're born
639
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:12.280
with a moonlith conjunction, which I've seen, you know on
640
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.519
or a moon or lilith on the icee at the
641
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:18.480
bottom of the chart, you may have had a really
642
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.559
I mean, lilith can be quite crazy. Okay, this is
643
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:26.599
not always not the easiest energy to deal with right,
644
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.679
because it's untamed. Like I said, it's it's wild. And
645
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:34.880
so Marilyn Monroe is a good example. Her mother was
646
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:40.239
really really difficult mother who you know, she spent time
647
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:44.840
in the looney bin and was completely out of control.
648
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:49.960
So Lily can indicate an actual out of control person
649
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.199
that you've had to deal with in your life, right
650
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:56.039
or that you so it can be it can you know,
651
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.280
often you see it like if someone had a mother
652
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:08.000
or a father who was totally irrational, totally unpredictable. It's
653
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:11.440
not irrational energy. And that's again, it's something to sort
654
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.159
of keep in mind. This is not about rational stuff.
655
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.320
This is not even. It's not an even energy. It
656
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:23.239
comes and goes, comes in bursts. And you know, I've
657
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:26.159
seen people again when they have a transit from Lilith
658
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:30.239
going through the tenth House, you're dealing with a difficult boss.
659
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.239
Sometimes you know who is crazy and who and knowing
660
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.280
that's useful because it's like, Okay, well, I'm not going
661
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.159
to be able to deal with this person by talking
662
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:42.559
to them in a reasonable way. I'm going to have
663
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:46.599
to work with this crazy energy and be creative with
664
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:50.760
it and have a creative approach or come at it
665
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.320
from a different angle and not sort of not expect logic,
666
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:59.519
you know, release the lot logic, which is, you know,
667
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.119
mostly not mostly, but often we wanted, we think that
668
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:05.639
we can talk about things to anybody. You know, we
669
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.719
can talk. Let's talk about it, let's discuss this. No,
670
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:12.880
you can't always, and lilith is a good you know,
671
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:16.599
sign that you can't. And it's good good for us
672
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.920
as well. It forces us into situations where you're not
673
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.480
going to be talking logically about stuff. I mean, logic
674
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:27.679
is kind of boring after a while, right, why not
675
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.599
have that kind of crazy, irrational conversation that goes all
676
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:33.880
over the place and see what it what it brings up?
677
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:34.599
You know.
678
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.840
It's also i mean, lilith is also a you see
679
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.039
in people who are quite witchy, okay, who are in
680
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:47.920
touch with their witchy side. And witchiness is not about
681
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:54.000
logic and rationality. It's about feelings and instinct and getting
682
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.400
back in touch with your darkest feelings, right, your deepest
683
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:03.199
feelings anyway, And the worst thing we can do when
684
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.840
we have deep dark feelings is that pretend not to
685
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.360
have them, because then they burst out in an unpleasant way. Right,
686
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:11.920
and it's in a scary way.
687
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.760
And often they've gotten pressurized by being pushed down, so
688
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.320
when they show up they're even more frightening. Yeah yeah, yeah,
689
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:23.559
as you're saying that, I just have a list of
690
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:27.079
people I have to go research. It's really all kinds
691
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.119
of film noir actors and actresses are occurring to me,
692
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:35.119
like certain characters, this could be really really fun Ava.
693
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.199
Gardner, I haven't looked up. I mean, she must have
694
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:43.679
had a wild wild Lilith right, the Barefoot Contessa. Very
695
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:48.199
boring movie. But she's great, of course. But yes, I
696
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:50.440
think that. I think that. You know, once you start
697
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:55.079
to understand that, it's that Lilith permeates the culture, right,
698
00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.280
She's deep in the culture, and if you start to
699
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.920
acknowledge her, then I don't know, it adds richness to
700
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:07.199
the whole thing. You know. It's like it's like juiciness
701
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:10.320
to your It adds juiciness to your chart readings as well.
702
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:14.800
You know, if you're practicing astrologer and you're you suddenly
703
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.079
added in the Lilith, you're like, whoa, hey, wait, this
704
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:20.920
is great, we could you know, it's like adding black
705
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.239
pepper to the whole thing. It brings out the flavors
706
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:28.519
of the of the chart. And you know, obviously the
707
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.119
aspects are important or the aspects.
708
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.760
So if someone has an unaspected lilith, so she who
709
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.760
has none, would you pay attention to what's going on
710
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.960
with the ruler of the sign that lilith is in,
711
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.920
or would you just primarily primarily look at transits.
712
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:51.159
I would definitely pay attention to the ruler of the sign. Yes,
713
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:56.239
And you know, yours is a good example actually, i mean,
714
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.239
let's face it, you know, it's it's a wonderful example.
715
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:03.079
It's lilith and cacorn. And you love work, right, you
716
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:07.599
work really hard, yes, untamed work, like I'm going to work,
717
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:11.039
I'm going to do stuff. And it's so creative as well.
718
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:13.400
I mean, this is the thing. It's like, so your
719
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.840
your work isn't just like one thing, is it. It's
720
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.719
like you do multiple things even within the thing. So
721
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.639
it's you told me earlier that you had three three
722
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:28.320
completely like other jobs, but actually within those jobs it's
723
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:33.159
complicated and di and for diverse, and I think diversity
724
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.039
is also a little things having many, many different things
725
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:41.079
that you do. So getting I'm back to Picasso of
726
00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:46.000
course he didn't just do painting. He did everything right.
727
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:51.679
He did sculpture, he did mosics, he did whatever, He
728
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:57.119
made sculptures out of bicycle handlebars, he he did lots
729
00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:02.719
of different kinds of art. He did drawing, he did edgings.
730
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:06.960
You know, he did everything, and that multiplicity I think
731
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.960
is very Lilithian. I've lost track of what the original
732
00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:13.840
question was though, when you said, oh, an unaspect of lyth,
733
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:20.639
I would look to the ruler of that sign that
734
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:26.719
it's in, and as we know with unaspected planets, this
735
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:30.440
does not mean that lilith is weak. It can mean
736
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:34.320
that it's super strong, is how I would see it.
737
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.199
But it may mean that your Lilith is hard to
738
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.079
kind of rein in. So I would be interested to
739
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:44.079
see what happened. You know, you're about to have a
740
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:49.280
Lilith return on you because this isn't Sagittarius now, so
741
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:52.000
it's going to be in Capricorn soon. So I would
742
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.440
be really interested for you to have a look at
743
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:57.920
your your lilith returns and see if those were particular
744
00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:00.559
times when you just went gangbusters with the work.
745
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:04.960
That's very interesting. I've just had little lith go over
746
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.719
the go over my Saturn, because I have Saturn and sad.
747
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:14.920
So interesting, Oh, so much to think about. End lesslie, fascinating,
748
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:18.000
endlesslie fascinating. Look up your friends and think of all
749
00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.199
the sordid stories people have told you, and you'll be
750
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:22.840
reading along going that was that.
751
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:28.079
Yeah, I had one. I had one and had my
752
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.239
nails done, which is something I, as you can tell,
753
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:33.840
I don't normally do, but I did it. In fact,
754
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.599
I was having them removed because I had them done,
755
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:38.519
and I thought, this is terrible. I can't deal with it.
756
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:41.519
I have to have my normal nails back. I went
757
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:44.000
in and the girl said, you know, oh you know
758
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:46.239
you're an astrologer, blah blah blah. Who would you look
759
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:48.760
at my chair? I was like, no, I will write.
760
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:52.719
Then I will have a look. And while she's doing
761
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:54.920
my nails, and I looked as she had lilith rising,
762
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:58.199
and I said, oh are you and I just you
763
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.639
know how sometimes you just say the thing that comes.
764
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:07.880
Probably shouldn't say the thing, I said, So she mentioned
765
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.320
her boyfriend. I said, is your boyfriend married to someone else?
766
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:17.559
She said, yes, how did you know that? Course of
767
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:22.559
course you're going to do that. But yes, it opens up,
768
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:25.440
and it's also could be very precise, do you know
769
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.599
what I mean? It can be very specific in what
770
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:35.159
it's telling you. Not always. But the other place that
771
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.639
I see Lilith working and women's charts a lot in particular,
772
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:44.039
is this sort of defending the week right or defending outsiders.
773
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:47.440
People could because a little of this is like a
774
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:49.880
point for people who are outside is like refugees and
775
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:55.559
are victims of abuse and people like that someone who
776
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:01.840
leaps to their defense. And I think I was Mary Wolstencroft.
777
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.800
The vindication of the rights of women is in this book,
778
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:07.320
and she has a very strong Lilith. I think it's
779
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:11.159
in libra of course, you know, that's about rights and
780
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:13.920
what's fair and what's not fair, So it can be
781
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:16.159
a place, you know. Again, it's a place where she
782
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:19.440
feels like she has She had a lot to say
783
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:23.400
about the unfairness of how women were treated right, and
784
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:26.199
she said it in words. Of course, that's really libra
785
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:31.360
to air scientists to actually say it, but it's it's
786
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:35.360
often where you feel passion as well, and we need
787
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.760
our passions, don't we. So you I mean again back
788
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.679
to your example, is like you're passionate about work, okay,
789
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:45.960
or we can be passionate about other you know, other people.
790
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:50.400
You know, that's a very seventh thound Lilith thing. You're
791
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:55.519
passionate about partnership, but also passionate about fairness because we
792
00:51:55.599 --> 00:52:02.119
need to expand our definitions sometimes, or passionate about the underdog.
793
00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:07.760
That's very successful to be looking after people and to
794
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:11.880
come out and you know, one of the other things
795
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:16.920
about liliv I think not always, but sometimes it can
796
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:21.320
be a place that we're quite frightened of. So to
797
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:25.159
go in there we have to be brave, and then
798
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.159
that makes us braver for having dealt with whatever that is,
799
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:33.559
that issue is. And one more thing that I was thinking.
800
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:42.920
I was looking at some charts today which were some
801
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.360
people who were again it was about sex actually, which
802
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:49.599
has come up a few times. Lili's definitely got this.
803
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:54.360
You know, it's about sexuality, but not necessarily reproduction if
804
00:52:54.400 --> 00:53:01.519
you see what I mean. And the charts of the people,
805
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:04.239
you know, various people I was looking at were people
806
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:08.400
who actually have no boundaries of sex and there was
807
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:12.280
a lot of North node Lilith conjunction there, which is interesting.
808
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:15.840
And one more thing I want to say, just as
809
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:21.119
we're ending, is that it's also about sometimes lilith in
810
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:24.960
the fifth is about having children or not having children,
811
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:29.039
having like loads of kids. I've seen this when you
812
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:32.639
have a chicken kind of lilith or no kids right,
813
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:37.480
or there may be issues around childbirth I have. I
814
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:40.719
have a really nice, nice friend who's a doula who
815
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.480
has a moon lilith conjunction. Also is a great mother,
816
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.599
by the way, so it doesn't it's not saying all
817
00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:52.400
you know, but her mother's wonderful and she's you know,
818
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:55.880
and she's a doula with that moonlith, which is really interesting.
819
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:00.239
What a wonderful way to express it. And and we
820
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:02.159
are we do need to wrap up now. So just
821
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:05.360
to remind everybody we're talking to Christina Rodenbeck, author of
822
00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:09.119
Lilith Untamed, there we go a brand new book that
823
00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:13.360
you will find fascinating. Is well worth putting in your library.
824
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:16.039
Thank you for talking about all this. Where can people
825
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:16.679
find you?
826
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:20.800
Well, you can find me at the Oxford Astrologer because
827
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:23.719
as you rightly say, I am literally an Oxford So
828
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:28.039
it's like eleven at nine here and on Instagram and
829
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:32.360
Facebook and the usual places Blue Sky if you're on that,
830
00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:38.119
but just google me. It's I'm in there. But please, yeah,
831
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:41.559
come visit my website. There's other stuff about Lilith on
832
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:45.599
there and some of the other asteroids as well. So
833
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:48.840
I've written a lot of stuff over the years.
834
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:53.119
Many you have a newsletter also, so people can go
835
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:58.320
to newsletter. Yeah, and it's extraordinarily beautifully written everyone, so
836
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.119
go read it. That's a big deal for me, a
837
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:04.119
big deal to me. So thank you very very much.
838
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.559
I have greatly enjoyed having this conversation with you. We
839
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.639
have a really kind of frightening similarities in our background,
840
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.800
which I will infest to you afterwards. And they're gonna go,
841
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:18.079
what is she talking about? Now? Everyone, be very very
842
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:23.280
kind to yourselves. We're heading into a truly astonishing time.
843
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:26.000
I know that Christina has an article up on her
844
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:29.840
site about it. She calls it the Chalice. Many people
845
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:33.000
are referring to Barbo's basket. I will be talking about
846
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:38.440
this on the first Wednesday in July on Melissa Caaprio's
847
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:42.760
home time show Postcards to the Universe, And I've got
848
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.079
something up at my Patreon about it right now. Patreon
849
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:50.480
dot com, slash Kathy Bale. So everyone, go find magic,
850
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:52.920
gravitate to the type of world you want to live in,
851
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.639
and be nice to people and especially to yourself. Thanks everybody,
852
00:55:56.679 --> 00:56:09.159
Bye bye Bess.
853
00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:27.840
To complete concer