00:00:00
Speaker 1: Seven Tech feature.
00:00:04
Speaker 2: Fourteen minutes to two o'clock and our tip feature for today. We chat AI augmented apprenticeships and we are joined by your han Stein, who is a human centered AI advocate. We take your calls on oudible one w A three oh seven O two in the WhatsApp line Oh seven two seven O two one seven o two.
00:00:24
Speaker 3: John, Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:00:28
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm thankful to be here. And you know why. Thankful is a key word. Tell me why, GPT. What your beautiful name means. It's a beautiful name.
00:00:39
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Yes, it is. It means we are.
00:00:43
Speaker 1: Thankful, absolutely, praise God. Thank you.
00:00:48
Speaker 3: And that praise God is my son's name.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: Okaying, that's my son's so nail on the head, nail on the head.
00:00:56
Speaker 3: So your hon please help me understand.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: And what does the human centered AI advocate do?
00:01:04
Speaker 3: What is your role?
00:01:08
Speaker 1: Listen? Yeah, So all of this AI talk is about the tech and the chat GPT and the scary stuff around losing our jobs. My work is focused on the importance of humans, so let's call it philosophical, definitely ethical. I definitely focus on law and regulation. People are still important even though we automate and AI everything. So that is my focus and I think it's a conversation that's not often enough being had. People are important, even though we want to AI everything.
00:01:43
Speaker 3: That's the work I do, and I think that is quite amazing.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: I didn't even know that there are individuals who are in your line of work to say, in.
00:01:53
Speaker 3: This future of AI, how are we.
00:01:55
Speaker 2: Continue continuing to advocate for human involvement Because the fear is just the erasure of the requirement of people in their skills. So when it comes to these AI augmented apprenticeships, what is that model?
00:02:11
Speaker 3: What does it refer to?
00:02:15
Speaker 1: So think of a large corporate, well, I guess even medium sized businesses as a triangle. At the top you have the executives, the owners, the board, the so called c suite, people with years of experience, people hopefully with wisdom. In the middle tier of this triangle you have the mid management layer, people with experience, not at the top yet but they execute the business. But at the bottom you have the new entrance to the workforce. And these are obviously or often people doing an internship, people just coming from college or university or high school. And what I'm advocating, and what I'm saying, and this is really what's worrying me, is that that layer, that bottom layer is currently already highly automatable with technology and with AI. We see it with audit firms, we see it in law firms, we see it in other businesses. And yes, the challenge, I mean, once you've graduated, you have to get experience. But how will you get that experience if the AI can do what you will do at that bottom level in any case, and then what is the future of that organization if you don't have an influx of young people learning those skills being guided by the senior people. It's a massive problem all across the world, especially in the US, Canada and the European Union. We don't see it here in South Africa and Africa. Yet it's coming our way in the next two or three years and our business is addressed. There is something hopefully we're going to talk about.
00:03:56
Speaker 2: Okay, So what are some of the industries that we refer to in this AI augmented apprenticeships?
00:04:08
Speaker 1: So I think anything that we can kind of lump into what we can call knowledge work, so in other words, to simplify it, anything that's not to do with handwork. In other words, you're building stuff, you're making stuff, you're using your brain. You're an auditor, you're an attorney, you're a consultant, you work for a bank, or those kind of things. That is the work that is highly automatable, if that is even an English word. One of the things I talk about a lot in my conferences and with my clients and with high schools and universities is to focus on the so called unautomatable work. And I often laugh a rebel a hillier is My son is eleven. He hates it when I say it. I think when he is eighteen or nineteen, he should become a plumber. Is going to make so much money and hopefully look after me when I'm a madala because you cannot automate that on of work. You cannot automatic giving and building and craft work. Craftsmanship is really the way of the future. I don't think most, not all, but most the university degrees is the way of the future because it's an automatable skill, so to speak.
00:05:26
Speaker 2: And I think I'm so glad that you're touching on that, because there are certain you know, skills that we know are going to be there pretty much forever. There's certain things that robots and machines are going to be limited with what they can do and will need that human involvement. So talk to us about this collaboration between people and in AI, because I'm assuming each time a human engages with any AI you are teaching it. So won't it slowly start to need the human less and less?
00:06:00
Speaker 1: Yes, Look, any one of us who have used a chat pot recently, whether it's your bank, your insurance company, your mobile phone provider, are pulling their hair out because these things are dumb. They don't understand what we're saying. I mean, the companies love it, they say we're aiing stuff, but the way they train these models, the way they actually deploy it is so mistaken and so wrong. And I work with a lot of clients using chat pots, AI chatbots understanding your language and understanding various African languages, which is a very important topic from a diversity and a bias point of view. It just doesn't understand what I'm actually saying. So I do think that the future of work is learning to use AI and automation technology to complement you those lower level administrative reporting task is highly automatable, but the knowledge and the experience you cannot automate looking that customer in the eye, whether it's a healthcare customer or a banking customer, or whichever industry or in I just don't know how we're going to automate human to human intervention. And two examples are often used as One is, if I wake up tomorrow and my bank account has been hacked and there's nothing left, I don't want to chat to a chat pot or speak to a call center agent. I want to go to the branch and speak to the branch manager. Hopefully he or she can help me. The other thing, which is perhaps closer to our skin, is healthcare. If I'm diagnosed with cancer or a similar disease, I don't want an email. I don't want a chatbot. I want a hopefully empathetic and wise medical doctor to take me by the hand and guide me through the process. For the future of our youngsters, learn to automate stuff, learn to prompt learn to use AI efficiently and responsibly. But that human knowledge, that looking somebody in the eyes and knowing they are worried, those are skills rebel hill. I just don't see that I can ever do that.
00:08:22
Speaker 2: Can you give an example of any of these AI apprenticeship programs and tools that are already out there.
00:08:30
Speaker 1: Look, a lot of our big corporates are doing it. We also have beautiful and wonderful organizations in South Africa and in Africa and across the world doing this. The challenge for them is funding. The challenge for them is getting these youngsters into an actual job where they have to deal with corporate politics and nonsense. But here I can think of organizations like a Rumby in South Africa and they associated partners, and there are many which I just contracall right now doing great work around it, especially focusing on youngsters from rural areas who are highly talented, beautiful, wonderful people who I do a lot of work with. But they grow up in areas where there's just not the financial possibility to go to university or to have any other future than doing menial work. And all work is honorable. I believe that whether you work in the checkers or at the checkout at the petrol station, work is honorable. I don't know if our youngsters are learning that always, because they all want to go for the really big high paying jobs. A good job and responsibility to look after your family and your parents is a wonderful thing. But we have wonderful organizations in our country. Their challenge is funding and their challenge is working with our big corporates now mining companies, not banks, to get these youngsters into a career that will benefit them. So there are many, many examples. As I said, I'm sorry I can't mention all of them now, but getting them to learn how to budget, how to deal with corporate politics, how to be a good partner, how to be a good person, learning the philosophy of life. Those are some of the things I think in this digital age we don't always teach our children's it's all about coding and robotics and prompting. But how are you ethical? How do you support your community? I don't see that happen often, Abel Hill, I hope answered your question. Probably I didn't.
00:10:41
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you did. And I think the most key thing that.
00:10:44
Speaker 2: You really locked is that all work is honorable, that some jobs do look shiny and more important.
00:10:53
Speaker 3: Some jobs now in the era of.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: Content creators and influences, where it looks more glamor rus are the ones that people are attracted to, but that plumbing.
00:11:03
Speaker 3: Job or that delivery job is as honorable.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: And thank you so much for sharing that, and I know that we'll chat again in our take feature.
00:11:13
Speaker 3: Johan
Speaker 1: Seven Tech feature.
00:00:04
Speaker 2: Fourteen minutes to two o'clock and our tip feature for today. We chat AI augmented apprenticeships and we are joined by your han Stein, who is a human centered AI advocate. We take your calls on oudible one w A three oh seven O two in the WhatsApp line Oh seven two seven O two one seven o two.
00:00:24
Speaker 3: John, Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:00:28
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm thankful to be here. And you know why. Thankful is a key word. Tell me why, GPT. What your beautiful name means. It's a beautiful name.
00:00:39
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Yes, it is. It means we are.
00:00:43
Speaker 1: Thankful, absolutely, praise God. Thank you.
00:00:48
Speaker 3: And that praise God is my son's name.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: Okaying, that's my son's so nail on the head, nail on the head.
00:00:56
Speaker 3: So your hon please help me understand.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: And what does the human centered AI advocate do?
00:01:04
Speaker 3: What is your role?
00:01:08
Speaker 1: Listen? Yeah, So all of this AI talk is about the tech and the chat GPT and the scary stuff around losing our jobs. My work is focused on the importance of humans, so let's call it philosophical, definitely ethical. I definitely focus on law and regulation. People are still important even though we automate and AI everything. So that is my focus and I think it's a conversation that's not often enough being had. People are important, even though we want to AI everything.
00:01:43
Speaker 3: That's the work I do, and I think that is quite amazing.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: I didn't even know that there are individuals who are in your line of work to say, in.
00:01:53
Speaker 3: This future of AI, how are we.
00:01:55
Speaker 2: Continue continuing to advocate for human involvement Because the fear is just the erasure of the requirement of people in their skills. So when it comes to these AI augmented apprenticeships, what is that model?
00:02:11
Speaker 3: What does it refer to?
00:02:15
Speaker 1: So think of a large corporate, well, I guess even medium sized businesses as a triangle. At the top you have the executives, the owners, the board, the so called c suite, people with years of experience, people hopefully with wisdom. In the middle tier of this triangle you have the mid management layer, people with experience, not at the top yet but they execute the business. But at the bottom you have the new entrance to the workforce. And these are obviously or often people doing an internship, people just coming from college or university or high school. And what I'm advocating, and what I'm saying, and this is really what's worrying me, is that that layer, that bottom layer is currently already highly automatable with technology and with AI. We see it with audit firms, we see it in law firms, we see it in other businesses. And yes, the challenge, I mean, once you've graduated, you have to get experience. But how will you get that experience if the AI can do what you will do at that bottom level in any case, and then what is the future of that organization if you don't have an influx of young people learning those skills being guided by the senior people. It's a massive problem all across the world, especially in the US, Canada and the European Union. We don't see it here in South Africa and Africa. Yet it's coming our way in the next two or three years and our business is addressed. There is something hopefully we're going to talk about.
00:03:56
Speaker 2: Okay, So what are some of the industries that we refer to in this AI augmented apprenticeships?
00:04:08
Speaker 1: So I think anything that we can kind of lump into what we can call knowledge work, so in other words, to simplify it, anything that's not to do with handwork. In other words, you're building stuff, you're making stuff, you're using your brain. You're an auditor, you're an attorney, you're a consultant, you work for a bank, or those kind of things. That is the work that is highly automatable, if that is even an English word. One of the things I talk about a lot in my conferences and with my clients and with high schools and universities is to focus on the so called unautomatable work. And I often laugh a rebel a hillier is My son is eleven. He hates it when I say it. I think when he is eighteen or nineteen, he should become a plumber. Is going to make so much money and hopefully look after me when I'm a madala because you cannot automate that on of work. You cannot automatic giving and building and craft work. Craftsmanship is really the way of the future. I don't think most, not all, but most the university degrees is the way of the future because it's an automatable skill, so to speak.
00:05:26
Speaker 2: And I think I'm so glad that you're touching on that, because there are certain you know, skills that we know are going to be there pretty much forever. There's certain things that robots and machines are going to be limited with what they can do and will need that human involvement. So talk to us about this collaboration between people and in AI, because I'm assuming each time a human engages with any AI you are teaching it. So won't it slowly start to need the human less and less?
00:06:00
Speaker 1: Yes, Look, any one of us who have used a chat pot recently, whether it's your bank, your insurance company, your mobile phone provider, are pulling their hair out because these things are dumb. They don't understand what we're saying. I mean, the companies love it, they say we're aiing stuff, but the way they train these models, the way they actually deploy it is so mistaken and so wrong. And I work with a lot of clients using chat pots, AI chatbots understanding your language and understanding various African languages, which is a very important topic from a diversity and a bias point of view. It just doesn't understand what I'm actually saying. So I do think that the future of work is learning to use AI and automation technology to complement you those lower level administrative reporting task is highly automatable, but the knowledge and the experience you cannot automate looking that customer in the eye, whether it's a healthcare customer or a banking customer, or whichever industry or in I just don't know how we're going to automate human to human intervention. And two examples are often used as One is, if I wake up tomorrow and my bank account has been hacked and there's nothing left, I don't want to chat to a chat pot or speak to a call center agent. I want to go to the branch and speak to the branch manager. Hopefully he or she can help me. The other thing, which is perhaps closer to our skin, is healthcare. If I'm diagnosed with cancer or a similar disease, I don't want an email. I don't want a chatbot. I want a hopefully empathetic and wise medical doctor to take me by the hand and guide me through the process. For the future of our youngsters, learn to automate stuff, learn to prompt learn to use AI efficiently and responsibly. But that human knowledge, that looking somebody in the eyes and knowing they are worried, those are skills rebel hill. I just don't see that I can ever do that.
00:08:22
Speaker 2: Can you give an example of any of these AI apprenticeship programs and tools that are already out there.
00:08:30
Speaker 1: Look, a lot of our big corporates are doing it. We also have beautiful and wonderful organizations in South Africa and in Africa and across the world doing this. The challenge for them is funding. The challenge for them is getting these youngsters into an actual job where they have to deal with corporate politics and nonsense. But here I can think of organizations like a Rumby in South Africa and they associated partners, and there are many which I just contracall right now doing great work around it, especially focusing on youngsters from rural areas who are highly talented, beautiful, wonderful people who I do a lot of work with. But they grow up in areas where there's just not the financial possibility to go to university or to have any other future than doing menial work. And all work is honorable. I believe that whether you work in the checkers or at the checkout at the petrol station, work is honorable. I don't know if our youngsters are learning that always, because they all want to go for the really big high paying jobs. A good job and responsibility to look after your family and your parents is a wonderful thing. But we have wonderful organizations in our country. Their challenge is funding and their challenge is working with our big corporates now mining companies, not banks, to get these youngsters into a career that will benefit them. So there are many, many examples. As I said, I'm sorry I can't mention all of them now, but getting them to learn how to budget, how to deal with corporate politics, how to be a good partner, how to be a good person, learning the philosophy of life. Those are some of the things I think in this digital age we don't always teach our children's it's all about coding and robotics and prompting. But how are you ethical? How do you support your community? I don't see that happen often, Abel Hill, I hope answered your question. Probably I didn't.
00:10:41
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you did. And I think the most key thing that.
00:10:44
Speaker 2: You really locked is that all work is honorable, that some jobs do look shiny and more important.
00:10:53
Speaker 3: Some jobs now in the era of.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: Content creators and influences, where it looks more glamor rus are the ones that people are attracted to, but that plumbing.
00:11:03
Speaker 3: Job or that delivery job is as honorable.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: And thank you so much for sharing that, and I know that we'll chat again in our take feature.
00:11:13
Speaker 3: Johan
