Christian: What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Underanalyzed. We don't have to watch Summer League basketball anymore, and we could not be more thankful for that fact. We're gonna break it down for ya, go through Utah Jazz Summer League, and talk a little bit about the NHL hockey schedule release and then compare some strengths and weaknesses between the NHL and N NBA product. But first, thoughts and prayers to everybody who had to witness any portion of Summer League this year.
Jake: Yeah. Especially the jazz.
Christian: It was a tough watch. It was it was a tough watch, man.
Jake: Reese, you take us Reese take
Jared: Especially the Knicks. Have you watched any of their games? sorry. Watch any of their games the Knicks is summer league games? They had one game, they scored forty two points or forty five points. Horrendous. Anyways, sorry, go ahead.
Jake: The next I did not watch any Knicks games. That's wild. Cause we gave up we gave up forty two points to the Clippers in one quarter. Reese, this was your first experience watching basketball in a while. What'd you think?
Rhees: As as we've are as we've discussed offline, I I'm glad that I was into the NBA enough at different periods to not entirely judge the jazz and what what we're about to watch this season off of Summer League, because if I didn't have that context, I don't know if I would have I would watch the Jazz this season. Like there's all this hype around Darren Peterson. It's been so exciting and incredible. And then and then I turn on the game against the Wizards and it might have been the worst basketball I've seen in ten years.
Christian: It was the worst basketball I've seen in my whole life. And I spent the most on that ticket than I've spent on any basketball game ever. So that was a really cool dynamic for me. you guys know this already. I because I texted you and I s use the same dramatic text when I complain about this every time. Do you know how many fouls were called in that game? It's for context. Each player for some reason gets 10. There were 60 fouls called.
Rhees: Mm-hmm.
Jake: The games are forty minutes.
Jared: In a forty minute game.
Christian: Yeah, it was painful. It was literally painful. And it was tough. I was by myself, which it's I just made lots of bad choices that put me in that position. And the game sucked. So it was it was terrible, terrible and one of the worst nights of my life probably.
Jared: How is going to a game I was going to a game by yourself? I've never done that in my life.
Christian: So yeah, it I thought it would be like going and eating at a restaurant by myself, which you know I've done that since high school, Q sad violin music. but that that was actually way sadder than I meant for it to be. I enjoy eating by myself. Anyways, I thought it would be like that, right? Where it's just like I can go vibe, hang out. What I didn't account for is that, you know, you go, you sit it's it's general admission, right? So you can sit in any open seat. So I just went down.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Christian: as low as I could go and I just started asking people like, hey, are these seats taken? Are these seats taken? And finally I had to ask like five or six people because they were all saving seats. Finally this guy was like, No, no, no, it's fine. So I sat and I sat down and it was nothing like eating lunch by yourself because you are like four inches from the people next to you. And they're just really small seats. And I was anxious the whole time. It was it was not a good experience for lots of reasons.
Jake: That sounds awesome.
Rhees: So what it's what it's actually like is going to a new school, a new junior high school, and having to go and sit at a crowded table and you don't know anyone.
Christian: Yeah, you have to like squish in between two friend groups that are talking with each other and pretend like they're not thinking who is this freak sitting next to me that nobody knows. That's just you're in who just came to Vegas on a whim to watch this terrible basketball game. But anyways, I learned a lesson. let's talk about it though. I I did. I gotta see I mean, I wanna say it's Darren Peterson's first real game, but
Jared: Why is this freak by himself? But you gotta see him play. Yeah.
Christian: That's still not even true. Saw AJ DeBonsa's first real NBA game. he had an awesome dunk. That was cool. Peterson had an awesome setback three. That was cool. That was about it. That was about it. But let's let's talk about summer league just in general, right? So the Jazz, they have a game tomorrow night. I think it's their last one. I I tried to figure out today how the Summer League tournament works. It doesn't make any sense to me and there's no explanation. So I
Jared: That's the recap.
Jake: We've lost every game, so it makes sense that we're out pretty early.
Christian: Yeah, so I I mean the next day there are games, they're all T B D, so I I would assume that if we l win tomorrow there will be another one. I don't think we're gonna win tomorrow because aside from Darren Peterson, the Jazz Summer League team sucks. So let's focus on the positive first. things that you were excited about because of Summer League.
Jake: So bad.
Christian: Okay, moving on. Things we're not excited about. Jake Jake will Jared we'll start with you.
Jake: I mean
Jared: Crickets. All right. I'll I'll start with Yeah,
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jared: I'll start with so the pause the thing that I'm excited about. Darren Peterson's offense is very, very polished. Like it is abundantly clear he is far beyond a summer league player already. Like the way he moves, the way he can attack, they try to like put pressure on him. Everyone has a hundred fouls, so they can just whack him. all the time. They can just hit him on what all these things like and he handled the pressure pretty well. Like there's some moments, but I think that's expected. That's just kind of how basketball works. But he seemed like he could handle everything pretty well in his like when he like you said, that step back three he makes. There's kind of things that you can see the potential all there. There's like, that's a huge gap. Like with AJ DeBont, it's like, yeah, his physically is crazy, but his shots not there. Darren Peterson, everything's there. It just like there's just like it's just gonna mature and get get a little bit better and he'll know understand the game better at a higher level. Like and that's the only thing left. Like it just like seems like everything's there for him. So very exciting for Darren Peterson. That's the positive for the jazz.
Jake: Yeah, I don't think there's really any other positive for for the Jazz out of Summer League. But I agree, like hit there is real flow to Darren Peterson's game where he can get to anywhere he wants on the floor. And it's not like, okay, give me the ball. I'm gonna take 15 dribbles in a row and pound my way down to the block and then take a turnaround jump shot, right? It's like all within the flow of the offense, really fluid. He had some moves that were just like super quick decisions, and just like got past his guy. He didn't shoot it very well in Vegas. but he got good looks. So like I think that's just I mean, probably part nerves and just part it's your first time competing at this level or close to the NBA level at least. And like his his shot will start falling. I mean we s we see with rookies all the time coming in. They struggle to shoot initially You know, it's a lot faster pace and they just kind of got to settle in. We saw with Cooper Flagg last year. We saw with Donovan Mitchell at Utah when he was drafted. but like he's getting to the right spots and he's getting any shot he wants pretty much. And also he like you said, he's not really forcing much. He's playing within the flow of the offense. And I think he is going to be elite off-ball because he can get his shot off so fast. Like him.
Jared: Yeah.
Jake: I was just imagining like we have Keontae with the ball and then him and Lowry are coming off of like flare screens to catch and shoot three pointers. Like that's to have two players on your team who can catch and release that fast is gonna be incredible.
Rhees: Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, if Keonta can have another offensive year like he did last year, they'll have to respect him enough that will open up those kinds of shots for Lowry and D P.
Jake: Yeah, exactly. Like when when Darren Peterson is playing with the actual Jazz roster, he's not gonna be triple teamed immediately every time he gets the ball like he is in summer league. And also, not everybody can just hack him as many times as they want. Like literally I hate every single guard who guarded Darren Peterson 'cause they would just like go up s into his face and they all of them ended with like nine fouls every single game because they could. And it was so annoying to watch because they would just
Jared: Half as much.
Jake: And the ref can't call everything. So I I don't know. It it would it made Summer League horrendous. I have a lot of thoughts on how bad of a product Summer League is. and I guess it's not necessarily constructed for viewers. So I understand that. That's not what they're I I don't think they're really trying to sell it that much. But yeah, I mean when when he's playing with players that other teams and other defenses have to respect and guard, like he can cook almost anyone one on one. And it'll open up for other players as well.
Christian: Well, and that's what's nice too is you look at the other four guys who are probably gonna start for the Jazz, assuming that, you know, they go small and have Jaron Jackson slide over to the five, all five players can are legitimate threats to score, right, from all three spots. And so that opens up a ton of space for Peterson and everybody else, right? Whereas, you know, in in summer league, far and away the second best jazz player was Cody Williams, which is just a bad, bad position to be in, right? Where he's clearly your second best player. We'll get into him in a second.
Jared: gosh.
Jake: He averaged eight points by the way in summer league, his third year.
Christian: Yeah. It it was it was a disaster and like I don't know, it's one of those things where if the Jazz goal was to break Darren Peterson's will so they could rebuild him, they did a great job constructing that roster around him because it was just brutal.
Jake: It's literally Cody Williams is the only other NBA player on that roster. Like Blake Henson, I guess, maybe. We played Bez Mbang last year because we were trying to lose. Yeah, like th they're all G League players. Like we had no legitimate NBA prospects outside of Darren Peterson and Cody Williams.
Jared: We're trying to lose. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, and it was it was tough. Jared, go ahead.
Jared: Yeah, are we sure Cody Williams is an MBA prospect?
Christian: Well let's let's segue.
Jake: I think Cody well, okay. I'm gonna say Cody Williams it it is very clear he is not a player you put the the ball like you don't put the ball in his hands and tell him to go to work, right? He got it stolen probably 75% of the time he dribbled in summer league against rookies and G League players and thirty five year old dudes trying to make the league. Like it was horrendous.
Jared: Right.
Jake: Unless Cody Williams becomes like an elite defensive stopper, which he got freaking cooked a few times in summer league. He had some good defensive plays as well. Like that is his role. He needs to be able to hit corner threes and play good defense and dunk. And I think he can be elevated to be a role player in the league at those things. But I think that's pretty much his ceiling.
Christian: Well, that's what's frustrating and you know, segueing into things that we can we are concerned about, right? Coming in the summer league. Cody Williams, the difference between him and Ace Bailey and Darren Peterson is like the Grand Canyon. And it's not even, you know, Peterson and and Bailey, they played out of their minds, right? But they both missed a lot of shots, but they still were able to get to their spot. They were still able to do essentially whatever they wanted. But then you know, Cody Williams gets the ball, Peterson's sitting on the bench, Ace is resting, and it's like, Okay, let Cody cook and like it was brutal. Like there was one three. Yeah, he he doesn't. And that's what's so frustrating is it's like, hey, Bryce Sensbaugh who you as a what do you get drafted? Tenth, tenth overall, eighth overall. I get him and Taylor Hendricks mixed up. But yeah.
Rhees: He he doesn't have it in him.
Jared: Please don't let him cook. Yeah.
Jake: No. Cody? I think
Jared: Cody is the tenth.
Jake: eighth. Was he tenth? Okay.
Jared: He is tenth, yeah.
Christian: Okay. Well, regardless, lottery pick, right, versus Bryce Sensvah, who's a second round pick. Last year in summer league, Bryce Sensavah, he was head and shoulders better than everybody and he couldn't miss shots and the Jazz shut him down immediately. But Cody Williams, they've played him every single game essentially, and there were times where it's like, What do you like you fit in and that's a bad thing.
Jake: He missed a couple three pointers worse than I have ever missed a shot in my whole life. Like Jerry's gonna question that. But they were like, it was like a foot and a half to the left and short, or a foot and a half and like super strong. Like it was really bad.
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: I seen him show.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jared: Yeah, yeah. You I don't know who sent it, but in our chat we had the announcers I like had the announcers went for one of his shots and he's like, Ooh, not a good shot by Cody Williams. It's like the announce these neutral announcers like ooh. Not a good shot, dude.
Jake: Yeah.
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jake: Yeah, it was.
Rhees: Just fr from a talent perspective, right? Anyone who grew up around basketball, playing, watching, we're not talking hardcore enthusiasts or analysts or anything like that. I test Cody Williams is so inconsistent. Like he had plays where it's like this dude is athletic and he's he's a pro. And then the next minute he looks like the worst player on the court and he's making a fool of himself. And like he he he literally looks dumb and incompetent from a basketball perspective. just clarifying. In any event, it's it is it is crazy to me how apparent he the inconsistently inconsistent consistency problem is. And like Jake is saying, I think that makes his ceiling a average.
Jared: Which is literally the only perspective we have of him. So yeah.
Rhees: to decent role player if he can stay in his lane. so the question I have for you guys is does he know how to stay in his lane? 'Cause I haven't watched him during the regular season.
Jake: I think he does. I don't think he's gonna get much chance on this team though. Like
Jared: He had his chance.
Jake: We're gonna be playing like I'm imagining our forward lineup is or our sorry, our like shooting guard small forward lineup is gonna be Darren Peterson and Bryce Senspa and Ace Bailey. And that's pretty much gonna be it, unless it's like garbage time. So like I don't see him getting more than ten minutes in a game. And if he doesn't, he's he doesn't have really a chance to develop. So I don't know, which I think is the right move by the Jazz. Like I d I don't think it's worth pouring minutes into him at this point. Right? Like
Rhees: Well think how much time have they given him, how much how much resources, coaching and mentorship have they already poured into this guy?
Jake: Probably a lot. But I like I saw a quote for anybody who follows the the NBA, there's a guy in the Bulls named Patrick Williams, and coming out of college, he was like projected to be the next Kawhi Leonard, right? Everybody was super psyched, and the Bulls have just barely given up on the idea that he could become Kawhi Leonard, and it's been like six years, right? And like Cody Williams on paper has the physical gifts to be an elite basketball player. But
Jared: They extended them and yeah.
Jake: It's just not there, right? And and I think at this point you just cut your losses and see what he can do with ten minutes. But likely I think he'll probably be included just kind of as a a salary add on in some trade at some point.
Christian: Yeah, he's he's very fortunate that his big brother is so good. Because if he wasn't, like he would he would be with the Salt Lake Stars probably as they're like sixth or seventh man. But it's I mean he's had two full seasons where he was getting playing time because the Jazz were trying to lose. And the first season it was like, okay, go out there and develop. And then the second season it was like, Okay, go out there and play because you we know that you're gonna help us lose. And
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: I mean playing in your third summer league, you can't look like Cody Williams looked. You just can't. But
Jared: Also, you don't be wanna be playing in a third summer league. Like that's not a good sign. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: Well, it's like if you guys remember when we went, we saw Kaminga, Jonathan Kaminga. It was probably his second summer league. And yeah, it well, and he looked incredible, right? Like he dominated and it was very clear he was the best player on the floor. And he is like
Jared: That's normal. Yeah.
Jake: So far and above Cody Williams at this point, and still a fringe NBA rotation player, right? Like out of it. Cody Williams.
Rhees: Yeah, I mean that comparison tells you everything you need to know about what's what's happening.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, and I mean you even look different different situation, right? Number two pick versus the number eight pick. Like there was no conversation is Dylan Harper gonna play in summer league? It's like of course not. He's not gonna play in summer league. Next year, Darren Peterson, there's not even gonna be a question. He's not playing, Ace Bailey isn't playing. But Cody Williams, it was like, Okay, Cody, you're gonna be you're gonna be the star. Go do it and he didn't do it. So Jared, you've watched a lot of AJ Debonzo stick it in the summer league. Things that you were excited about.
Jared: he looked like he was still like how he he played the same style he did in at BYU. So that was like he didn't didn't feel like things were really no I mean it's a more of a b pro style. Like it's so it works well in the MBA. He does his jerking his head back thing and the foul baiting, which is just kind of at modern MBA stuff. That's what a lot of people do. it works.
Rhees: For better or for worse.
Jared: He got a lot of free throws from it. He said how many free throws from it. Nine. See that yeah. Okay, Jake. Not Drake. So it's I mean, yeah, he he scored a lot of points. They would double him. This how it was in call and in at BYU as well. It's gonna take a minute for a shot to get there. I don't doubt that he'll work hard and he'll get better and become
Rhees: So many free throws.
Jake: He shot nine percent from three.
Christian: Nine nine point one. Don't don't short Jake.
Jake: yeah, sorry. One one for eleven. One for eleven.
Jared: below average to average three point shooter. It doesn't seem like it's his strength. Maybe I mean he can figure it out. A lot of people have turned around their shot. Qui Leonard most famously. So we'll see how it goes. Washington fans are like sty st still really, really excited about it all. Which they should be 'cause Darren our AJ Devonce is amazing. So it's good. It he'll he'll be good. We'll see how the Wizards use him. And how the how how really how it works with Trey Young and how that's all gonna that's this is gonna be a really kind of interesting dynamic to try to to do it. 'Cause I think there's gonna be tendency for them to be like, you know, when when the Celtics have been the worst with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, it's when it's like your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn stuff. And I think that could be kind of like that with with them. So we'll see how that goes.
Jake: Yeah, that's that's my concern with AJ on the Wizards, is he seems to need the ball on the offensive side to make things happen. And Trey Young is predominantly one of the highest usage rate players in the league. So I I hope they kind of stagger them. Like they'll obviously start together, but then I hope they kind of stagger their minutes because I really want to see AJ leading an NBA offense, not just You gotta go score, but like, hey, you're creating for everybody else. Cause I think he has that ability. Yeah. And I think that will help him mature a lot more than just like, okay, hey, you're playing off ball because Trey Young has the ball. And also, maybe this is not gonna happen, but maybe the coaches in Washington can finally get Trey Young to play off ball a little bit like Steph Curiesque, you like coming off screens and stuff. Cause Trey Young has that shooting ability. He's just never
Jared: Yeah, he has a vision to do it. Yeah.
Jake: Played that style. So
Christian: Yeah, and I I think if Washington is smart, they need to understand that it's not AJ's job to figure out how to play next to Trey Young. It's Trey Young's job to figure out how to play next to AJ DeBonsa, right? Like he is the future. If the Wizard this current iteration of the Wizards is going to be successful, it's squarely on the shoulders of AJ DeBonsa. It's not on Trey Young. Right. And I think they need to figure out how to do that. Cause I mean, you watch and again it's Summer League, right? So you watch the first game against the Jazz. The Jazz tried two things. They tried to throw Cody Williams at him, which we've already talked about, not, you know, but that that's his strength. If he has a strength that's as a defender, okay, and he dominated Cody, right? And then they tried throwing these big body guys. I couldn't even begin to guess their names. Right. They're was that is that the American Fork guy? It it was him and another big who they just kinda tried to body him, which I think is a good strategy 'cause AJ's kinda struggled with strength and size of the big twelve at least, and I think that'll be his biggest
Jake: Yeah. Jackson Kohler.
Jared: Utah Zone. Yeah.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: hurdle in the NBA, but he just like got around them so easy. You know, he just it didn't matter what they did, he just dominated. And, you know, some of the shots that he normally hits didn't fall, but he showed 100% why he was, you know, the number one pick and an elite, elite, elite prospect.
Jake: Yeah. So I I'm gonna disagree with something Jared said. I think I think he has I think he has the potential to become an elite shooter with the proper NBA coaching. Like thinking of players like and maybe not an elite three point shooter, but like an
Christian: I got nervous for a second.
Jared: Well he he's an elite mid range shooter, like already.
Jake: Okay.
Jared: So I think it's three. The only issue is three. In college he was average. Now you step it back two feet or three feet, depending where you're at. And so it's not gonna make it any easier.
Jake: Yeah. Well, what he reminds me of, I mean, obviously he's way more polished than these players were offensively coming out of college, but like Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard, both really athletic guys that have like a similar shot style, I feel like, where they're really good at like that mid range turnaround footwork type shot. but like Jimmy Butler never became like a really good three point shooter, but Kawhi did. And like I think there's a real path for AJ to to develop like that kind of shot. And I think honestly he's gonna have to change some of his mechanics of his shot to be able to get there and be really consistent with it, at least from three. But like he has he has so much potential in every area, even like defensively. You know, there was that quote of him being interviewed of how he didn't really try at BYU on defense, which I think is super lame. 'Cause he was he said he was kind of lazy in college on defense. But I'll be interested to see. I mean, I don't get that 'cause it's like, dude, you're literally playing triple the games. So why why were you being lazy when you had less game split play? But anyways, it'll be interesting to see what he does defensively, and then how his offense continues to develop with the NBA coaching.
Christian: Yeah, and I mean talking, you know, he started things we're excited about, things we're worried about, right? That's that quote coming out saying I was lazy on defense. I I don't wanna call it like a major red flag 'cause the Wizards didn't draft him because he's gonna be an elite defender, but like Does that really change? Like all of a sudden are you no longer lazy? No. Right.
Rhees: I I had the
Jake: No.
Rhees: same thought when you guys sent that. And, you know, from a clinical perspective, that that is a that is a very difficult thing to change. You know, just a lot of people like the idea of I'm gonna move and I'm gonna be a new person or I'm gonna go to this new job and I'm gonna start a old habits die hard and it takes work to change and they can be changed, but it's not that simple.
Jared: Area.
Jake: Well, plus if he's if he's carrying a big load offensively, like it's it's harder to put a ton of effort on the defensive end. And that's why the most elite players of all time were elite on both ends, because it's a really, really difficult thing to do.
Christian: Especially Yeah. And that's exactly what I was gonna say, right? Like it's easy to say, I'm gonna try really hard on defense, but there's so many new things that he's trying to adjust to in the NBA and all of a sudden it's Wednesday afternoon and you're playing, you know, New Orleans on, you know, whatever T V channel and I don't know, like nobody cares. And you've been playing basketball for three and a half months, three games a week, like you're gonna try hard on defense. I just don't buy it. But That's okay. Like I said, I mean, I think J Jake, I think that's a great point, right? Like if we're talking about all time greats and the fact that we're even bringing up this conversation for Devonta is a huge compliment to him anyways. But you start talking about all time greats, they're a lead on both ends of the floor. And that's gonna be the biggest thing that's gonna hold him back. 'Cause I think he'll be elite on offense and I think you're right, he'll probably develop a three point shot. But if he wants to be truly, truly, truly elite, he's gotta figure it out defensively and based entirely on one Summer League quote. I don't think he has it in him. No, we'll see. But like we'll s we'll see.
Jake: Well we've we've never known
Rhees: T V D.
Jake: we've never known Christian to overreact a summer league before.
Rhees: T V D.
Christian: I I overreact to everything. That's my thing. That's my thing. any f
Jake: But no, I the crazy the crazy thing about summer league is it seems like all top four picks in virtually any other year would each one would have gone number one. Like that's the type of performance they've all had. So really, really cool draft class.
Christian: Yeah, it's been fun to watch. any final summerly thoughts, Jared? I you've got your hand up.
Jared: I do. I am so glad like kinda kinda going off what Jake said, I'm so glad we got the second pick. We've talked about this a hundred times. I'm glad we got a top four pick, I guess, more specifically, because the drop off from from Caleb Wilson to Keaton Wagler is freaking night and day.
Jake: Key Waggler has had one good quarter of summer league and it was against the Jazz.
Jared: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're right.
Christian: And it was right after I said, This guy sucks.
Rhees: Let's put it this way. As someone who doesn't know Ball, so to s so to speak, I've never heard that name, at least haven't remembered it, and I haven't seen any highlights of this guy from the algorithm powers of be.
Jake: Ha. I've seen plenty of low lights. I sa I saw one where someone was like, Keaton Waggler, there's still time to change your career, bro. And it was like a a possession of him having a turnover in the backcourt.
Jared: R yeah.
Christian: Speaking speaking of not Yeah.
Jared: Ha ha.
Christian: S speaking of not seeing a lot of highlights, I think the worst pick to have in this no, not the worst pick to have in this draft, but top four pick. I think the worst pick would be to have number three. Cause if Caleb Wilson explodes and if you only watch social media highlights, he's gonna be so good. And I have not really seen a lot of boozer highlights and I am
Jake: Yeah.
Jared: He this that's not his not his game, yeah.
Rhees: I've seen a lot of Caleb Wilson.
Jake: Christian Christian, I told you this a few days ago, but my take on Summer League is if you are for the NBA, if you're above average athleticism and you're playing in summer league, you will dominate and you will look a lot better than someone like Darren Peterson, who Darren Peterson is athletic, but he's not on the level of like AJ and Caleb Wilson.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: Because you're just so much better at athleticism than every other player on the floor that you can just get wherever you want and you get whatever shot you want and he can literally rise up and shoot over anybody, he can dunk over anybody. Like the competition is just too low for like that that high of athleticism.
Christian: Yeah. I like how you said if you're good at athleticism I am not, but that sounds awesome. No, I think you're right though. any final thoughts on Summer League?
Jake: If you're good at athleticism, it is a skill. get rid of reviews, please. We don't need freaking reviews in summer league. I don't need to see if I don't need to see if there's a freaking flagrant foul on an elbow. I don't need coaches to be able to challenge like God, please. It's already painful enough.
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: Yes.
Rhees: V A R baby.
Christian: Ha ha ha. Yeah.
Jared: Yeah, I was watching one game I forgot what game I was watching. There the guy his last name's Cooper, he played for Michigan State. He looks like he's gonna be bald in a a year and a half from now. And he does his dumb play and he immediately turns to the re the coach and starts doing, you know, the let's challenge it review sign. I'm like, What are we doing, dude? Like you're not gonna be in this league. You don't have the clout to like turn to your whatever, your coach and demand of review. This is not what we're doing.
Christian: There's nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm.
Jake: Yeah. It's like a s it's a slightly more formal pickup game. Like that's literally what's it what it is. Like let's just keep it that.
Jared: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Call your own fouls.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: And I get you're trying to train refs, whatever. We don't need reviews. If you want anybody to ever watch it, get rid of freaking reviews on Summer League.
Christian: one final comment on the refs, which was just an interesting observation. seeing these guys that are like seven feet tall and you know the NBA is introducing a lot of female refs, and it is so jarring to see this five foot two woman standing next to a seven foot dude who, you know, is just like broader and bigger. It's crazy. But anyways, I that's how boring the game was that I went to. I was like, wow, look at that size
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jake: I did I I did see one ref who was beating all the players down the court every single time. It was very impressive. He was he had some freaking wheels.
Christian: Uh-huh. Yeah, good for him. Good job, bruv. All right. let's do some trivia. Reese, you got some trivia for us, man.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: Jared, you got some trivia f s for us, man.
Jared: Jake, you some c yeah, it's me. It's me. Yeah.
Christian: is it Jared? Do we give him another shot? I'm sorry. Okay.
Jake: It's Jared, yeah, we're we're letting Jared try again.
Jared: This is
Jake: Against all of our better judgment.
Jared: this is twenty twelve Olympic US Olympic team, this redeem team stuff going on right now. Okay. Sticking with Summer League. The Jazz I want you guys to guess the Jazz's top three MBA Summer League scorers. And they're all I'll give you some hints. Total point I'm points per game. So the
Jake: Like total points.
Jared: Well, it's from twenty seventeen. So I'll give you a hint. It's from twenty seventeen on. That there's one. that's and then I want you guys to guess number two and number three as well. So top three NBA Summer League scorers for the Utah Jazz.
Jake: I know one of them.
Christian: twenty seventeen on.
Jared: The last ten years, ten seasons or whatever.
Jake: All right.
Jared: They're all from the last ten season, I should say. This goes back to two thousand four, two thousand five.
Christian: And it's just points per game, right? Not total points. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Jake: They just don't Yeah.
Jared: Points per game. Not total points. Because Cody Williams might have total points because he's played for three seasons. No, he doesn't. I that'll be a fun surprise. Ask there's five hundred players on this list and we get to guess where he's at.
Christian: I I don't even think he would.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jake: He's probably four hundred and ninety-eight.
Jared: Yeah.
Christian: All right. in hockey news today, the NHL released their schedule today. Reese, the Utah Mammoth. How are you feeling, man?
Rhees: So, as I said recently, the NHL shortened their preseason by quite a bit. I once again didn't write down how much they shortened it by, but I think it went from like eight or nine games to f three or four. Like way they cut it in half. And then they added two regular season games. So it went from eighty two to eighty four, our first game and home opener. So obviously those aren't aren't always the same, but they are for us this year. Guess what day it is?
Christian: Halloween.
Rhees: October first. Do you guys know what we're gonna be doing on October first?
Jared: Watching that game. Together.
Christian: Are we hanging out?
Jake: Yeah.
Rhees: yeah, we will be driving down to St. George unless we all want to go to the game and go to St. George after. If any in any event I figured you'd fly in and then drive down with us, besides the point. so it's kind of a it's both a bummer, but also something we experienced. We have a very heavy road schedule in the first half of the season.
Christian: Sounds fun for you guys. Awesome. Sick. Cool.
Jake: Ha ha.
Christian: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: And which was the same as last year. And similarly heavy home schedule in the second half. So thirteen of our f of our first eighteen games are away. we'll see how we do with this. I think we are much better suited for it. One, because we have experience from last year, and two, we added a bunch of veterans who are gonna help us on those gritty away games. we don't participate in any away home openers, which we did several times last couple years. We have our winter classic on December thirty first at Rice Eccles Stadium against the Colorado Avalanche, which will be pretty epic, I think.
Christian: It's gonna cool.
Jared: Have you looked at tickets for those? It's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, it's super expensive.
Rhees: It's so expensive.
Christian: Is it really?
Rhees: Yeah, it's like it's like four hundred dollars for the cheapest ticket or something.
Christian: Really? 'Cause what does rice cycles hold? Like fifty thousand? Forty eight? Wow. That's yeah. Huh.
Jared: Yeah, something like that. I thought the tickets would be cheaper because it's like triple th capacity or whatever. Nope.
Rhees: Something like that. But I just just for context, they only do and I could be wrong, but they only do one winter classic in the entire NHL. So this is all NHL fans who like the Winter Classic want tickets. And it's the first time it's ever happened in Utah and so on. So I there's a there's a pretty high demand.
Christian: Fifty one thousand people. Just so you know. Yeah, thank you.
Rhees: Well, and a good guess. and then last this last year obviously we had the Olympic break. so February was pretty quiet for the NHL. we have the All Star Weekend coming back, which I have never followed as an N NHL fan. It is February 5th and 6th. It is five teams three on three. Which I think will be interesting. But throw I mean three on three overtime is notoriously enjoyed by
Jared: That's gonna be fun. That's gonna be chaos, yeah.
Rhees: More casual viewers, more hardcore NHL fans think it's too random, but I think it's yeah, pretty much. I think it is electric. So I think it could be really enjoyable to watch a five team three on three tournament.
Jake: Everyone except for Canadians, right? Yeah. I mean, literally everyone loved when they did the didn't they do like US versus World or something or or like a World Cup type Yeah. Like that that overshadowed NBA All Star Weekend and everybody was like, How do we figure out how to be good like the NHL for All Star Weekend?
Rhees: the four nations.
Jared: Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, four nations.
Rhees: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Popped off.
Jared: So we can't do that. We just beat Canada. We need to delay our rematch of Canada for as long as possible.
Jake: Ha ha ha
Christian: Yeah.
Rhees: a hundred percent, 'cause they will be coming back with a vengeance.
Jake: Ha ha.
Christian: Polite vengeance.
Rhees: so that's that is the schedule update. Main thing here to consider as I highlighted is if we are not looking amazing in our first 20 games, just chill. This is it is exactly what happened last season. We are definitely better this year. we're just gonna have to see how we respond to a very heavy away start. And the mammoth have notoriously been good when we have practice time. Andre Tournier, the To Tourny, the coach. seems to do really well when he has practice time with the team and so we'll we'll see what how it goes.
Christian: Hmm. I like it. Yeah, I remember last year. You were tell you I I don't know why I remember this so vividly, but you sent us a tweet where it was like at this point in the season, teams that have had this many away games and it scored or not scored this many points, but have earned this many points in the standings have only not made the playoffs like ninety three percent of the time. And for some reason that's etching in my brain forever. But hopefully we can have a similar situation and it'll be interesting to see, right? Where This is the first season that the Mammoth have had expectations and it's I I'm hopeful that even if we do have a slower start, we will have added enough maturity to overcome that, right? Where you have the mix of slow start plus expectations could cause a young team to maybe fall apart. So fingers crossed that the veterans that we brought in is able to help weather the storm.
Jake: Yeah, I think that's pretty typical of young teams with new expectations to to struggle out of the gate, but then we'll go on a crazy winning streak.
Rhees: We we are really good at home. We had some really big winning streaks at home last year. And I think that we we have enough experience. Clayton Keller came out at the beginning of last season and straight up said if we do not make the playoffs, it will be a disappointment and a failure. And so they did have expectations last season, but they never had to follow up a successful season of making the playoffs. to Christian's point. So yeah. We'll see. I'm looking forward to I I am very I'm obviously bullish and optimistic, but only time will tell.
Christian: Yeah, I love it. Well the Delta Center I I wonder if that the Delta Center renovations played a part in the
Rhees: So I I in my brief research right before this, supposedly it did not. I am not so sure about that. Obviously our first game is a home game, so it will have to be ready enough. But you know, the tweets that Ryan Smith sent out like two days ago, everyone's saying this is nowhere near ready. but we're I am no construction manager, so I'm sure they'll have it ready enough 'cause there's a lot of money.
Christian: If only we had if only we had a friend that was an expert in that field that could opine. Yeah. all right, let's move on. So it's it's been kind of fun to watch the World Cup, right? Because, you know, we've had several soccer games every day for the past month. And in several different social circles by several different people, I've heard along the same lines of wow, soccer is actually really cool. It's been really enjoyable to watch. I wanna pay more attention, I wanna follow soccer more, right?
Jake: Yeah, that would be helpful.
Christian: And it's been interesting to see people learning the nuances of the game. And Utah, it's still, you know, hockey is still a relatively new sport in the state of Utah. And I think that people are still who might be interested in following hockey are still kind of looking for more reasons to follow hockey. Right. And then we we kind of want to bring that all together and give our listeners some reasons why the NHL is such a good product and kind of compare and contrast the NBA. Not to say that the NBA is a bad product, but as we alluded to earlier, the NHL does things that the NBA struggles with and the NBA obviously just has a much bigger pull right now in the United States media market. So let's talk about it. What does the NHL do well? Reese, I know we've been sticking with you, but I'm gonna keep going back to you 'cause I can depend on you, unlike the other two guys. What does the NHL do well?
Jared: Ha ha.
Rhees: yeah, and I obviously I know the three of you have thoughts, but I I I will keep it very to the point here. I think the NHL has a better live product, and I think the NBA has a better media product. the NHL g hockey atmosphere, stoppage time, grit culture, playoffs, I think across the board are absolutely electric and unreal. And as as someone who has grew up going to jazz game. Jazz games. My dad has sat courtside with Jerry Sloan through business relationships. Like, like I grew up around the jazz, enjoying the jazz, like as a as a casual fan. And I went to more mammoth games last year than maybe all the not not all the jazz games combined, but we're it we're close. The the live product, and it I live, you know, 50 minutes away from the Delta Center.
Jared: Mm.
Rhees: the live product is is fantastic. The media product, on the other hand, it's hard to follow the puck for a lot of people. The game is not an in immediately intuitive, which we've talked about before for people who didn't grow up playing hockey, which is most people in Utah. And the barrier to entry to actually go play and understand the game is is is a challenge. So any thoughts on any of those things?
Jake: Yeah, I agree on your latter points for sure. Like every school has a basketball court. Very few schools have a an accessible hockey rink, right? I knew like one or two kids growing up that played hockey and they were kind of weird. But like Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's fair. That's fair.
Christian: Same. Yeah.
Jared: The guy's sucked. Yeah. I won't say his name. He he sucked.
Rhees: Everyone at your school is weird, but continue.
Jared: Ha ha ha.
Christian: Yeah, yeah.
Jake: But yeah, I mean and and I think like somebody who's never watched basketball could sit down and watch basketball and within five minutes understand the basics of the game. With hockey that's not the case. Like there's just so many things where you're like, wait, why are they stopping wait, why are they facing off right there? Wha what is icing like
Rhees: And right,
Jared: Yeah.
Rhees: and that's why them I think the media product of the NBA is just it's it's far superior. But then, you know, how how did how have you guys experienced the live product of the NHL compared to the NBA?
Christian: It's incredible. I mean, look, I haven't been to a mammoth game, but I've been to a Golden Knights game. And I think part of it is we got really sick tickets from a friend. But it is an incredible product that everybody like everybody in the arena cares about it. And it's awesome. Like the it's it's so electric.
Jared: Yeah. Yeah, it's a different kind of fan that's in the hockey games. Like you just get people are they're very, very passionate because it's such a newer, like niche kind of sport for I mean, it's new here obviously. There's only like certain pockets in America that like that's everyone's super into it, you know, the Midwest, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, like all that, and then I guess Massachusetts, right? And then Pacific. or Atlantic Northeast area. So it's it it's a very s if you're if you like if you like hockey, you're really into hockey. So when you're there in the in the arena and the it's just nonstop action, the subs are c like can while the game's going, the subs are happening. And so yeah, so it's you're yeah, line changes. Thank you. when that's all happening so fast and like there's just a better product. And there's not the
Rhees: Line changes.
Jared: the stoppages for timeouts, the T V timeouts, like the NBA has maximized how much money they can get out of the game. With with all the T V timeouts, with all the reviews and things they've implemented recently that just like the end of a basketball game is painful to get through sometimes just because of how much bureaucracy and like red tape they kinda have to go through to make it happen. So it's I'm a basketball guy. I grew up playing basketball. So for me, I like I'd rather go to a jazz game than a mammoth game. But it's no it's not a question which one is like a better atmosphere. 'Cause I mean and the jazz have sucked for forever, so that's part of it, right? But it's it's just like everyone's super invested. They have their cool traditions they're doing and it's just something you don't get with the NBA. there's the same amount of games, right? But it's the stars in the NHL play. not kinda culture of hockey. It's kinda like the football culture where it's like you just play. If you can play, you play. in the N N B A it's not like that. And then they've been incentivized to be like that, right? They still these get these massive contracts that are completely guaranteed and and things like that. So it's exciting. I'm glad we both to satisfy both needs.
Jake: Yeah, the continuity of play is definitely a huge plus for the NHL. And that was something like Christian mentioned at the beginning, watching soccer. Like it there's just continuous play, very few stoppages. Like we're not stopping to freaking review an out of bounds call 15 minutes into the game. Like I've said this to you guys so many times. Video reviews are ruining sports. They're so bad. All of them are so bad. Like have automated Detections, like that's great if you want for like the NBA on the three point line. There's no way they don't have the technology to automatically detect if a player is is stepping on the three point line or not. Just do it automatically, adjust the score. Don't have the refs. I mean, I guess the refs usually look during a timeout, but like that's that's the biggest contrast to me between the NBA and the NHL is continuity of play. NBA feels like it's just stopping all the time.
Rhees: Well and with the NHL it's like if it stops, it's because of two dudes just duked it two set you know, six five dudes just duked it out on ice skates. Like, that's a that's you know, I can I can live with that stoppage time.
Jake: Yeah. Bring fighting back to the NBA.
Rhees: Yeah.
Jared: Fighting with fans. Like they're when they did with Yeah, Metal Peace, run our test, yeah.
Jake: Yeah. Mouse in the palace.
Christian: Yeah. Yeah, that was Ronner Test. That wasn't meta.
Jake: Yeah, not Meta World Peace. Meta World Peace would never.
Jared: That's true. But he he's different after that. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, well I feel like this s this segment turned into hockey rules, NBA sucks. And I d I I think I don't know. I just obviously that's not actually what we're saying, but bringing it back to the positives of the NBA. The NBA, I think, collectively has the most unique elite talent compilation anywhere, right? 'Cause you get these guys who are, you know, six five is considered usually undersized for the NBA. So you get these guys who are six eight, six nine with forty plus inch verticals, who are super skilled with the ball. And when the NBA is good, like there's nothing better than the NBA. Especially you go to the playoffs, right? You get a game seven. If the NBA can figure out a way to bottle that, like there's no reason why the NBA shouldn't dominate the sports market in the United States, including over the NFL, right? But I we just have gotten too sidetracked to I mean, I There's no reason the hockey should pass the NBA in anything. And they clearly have in several areas. And Adam Silver
Jake: Needs to step down.
Christian: He needs to step down. I saw I think I sent it to you guys the from the Onion where it was Adam Silver learning that his appearance is impacting the r the view of the NBA or something like that. He's
Jared: Yeah.
Jake: I saw somebody who tweeted that was like Adam Silver must not have grown up a basketball fan and just like the first exposure to basketball is when he became commissioner of the NBA. And so he's like making all these decisions from just like a purely business standpoint.
Jared: Ha ha ha.
Christian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and it's they spend so much time making making sure that the business is right and making sure maximizing media deals and getting enough stoppages in. But in reality, if you get the product right, everything else will come, right? And we just need to stop overthinking it. But when we're presidents of the world, guys, we will make things right.
Rhees: What the won the
Jared: We split power four ways as a single presidency. Yeah.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: To I I I I mean we're probably wrapping up here, but Chr Christian, to add on to your point, like statistically, how many highlights can exist in hockey in 10 minutes? Hmm, I don't know. Four? NBA when it's right, when it's game seven of of a playoff series or or it anything. Like it can be twenty. The the highlight potential and the star potential in the NBA, not to mention you can see their freaking faces, like that's marketing and athleticism and comp it's it's incredible. And and honestly, pushing through just following the puck and who has the puck and who's who in the NHL, like that, that took watching for half, maybe three quarters of a season. And a lot of people just aren't going to put in that kind of time if they didn't grow up watching hockey. so and again, and even if you can follow the puck, it it's who who who's like I sometimes I'm still having to check like, who was who assisted that or who who shot that? Who did that go off of? Like, so you know, there there are challenges there, and I'm not sure, like unless the NHL or the fans are really willing to to change some stuff from a media perspective. I think that's gonna continue to be a big a big barrier to viewership.
Jake: Yeah, and I do think the NBA has an advantage in like today's era of social media because I think of any sport, it has the highest concentration of highlight clips per game. Right. Like there can be seven or eight highlights in a single game in the NBA, whereas like with hockey or football or baseball, it's like one or two, maybe. Right. So I think that's another big advantage. And also speaks to the point of what Christian was saying. Like the NBA I think has the mo the most elite athletes in the world.
Jared: It's not even really a question. Like it's it's very they're by far the most impressive athletes. yeah, in of any sport in any league. The NBA is insane. So
Christian: Yeah, I mean I'm trying to think of a way to segue this into our into our trivia and I just can't I can't make a good faith argument or a good faith connection connecting the elite level athletes of the NBA and somehow linking it to the top scores of Utah Jazz summer league history. But let's so is Bryce Senziball, that's my first guess. Is he on there?
Jake: Yeah.
Jared: D do you wanna do are we doing a group effort? We're trying to name all three?
Christian: Jake, I think you know one, so you give us yours.
Jake: We can we can go we can go individu do you wanna do group or you wanna do individual grasses? All right. I mean Donovan Mitchell, I would guess. Yeah.
Christian: I'm more of a group project guy when it comes to getting graded, so
Rhees: That's okay,
Jared: That's the number one. Yeah.
Rhees: so let it be known, that was my guess. I now have no good guesses.
Christian: Is he?
Jake: I'm gonna say Kyle Philipowski.
Christian: 'Cause he
Jared: That's number three. I thought that one would get you. Yeah. I didn't think
Christian: Are you serious? Summer League sucks. So okay, what how many points a game did Donovan Mitchell average in summer league?
Jake: Summer League MVP last year, baby.
Jared: That's true. That is true. twenty eight.
Jake: Wait, no, you can't say 'cause I okay.
Jared: I gonna ruin
Rhees: Well DP's D P was twenty eight.
Christian: Twenty eight. Okay. No, that was just Utah. Summer League. Like in Salt Lake.
Jared: Yeah, that's our total points per game for Eta Ethan.
Christian: man, since
Jared: So we have one and we have three. Who would be the th it's not Bryson, Spa.
Christian: And it's not Bryce Sensba. And it's not Cody Williams.
Jake: For number two
Jared: It's not Cody Williams, yeah, surprisingly.
Jake: Grayson Allen.
Jared: I don't was he drafted before then? No, it's on him.
Christian: That's the song.
Jake: No, he was drafted twenty eighteen. Darren Peterson then.
Christian: man.
Jared: He is number five. You can do top five, you wanna keep on guessing. It's from the last ten seasons.
Jake: Yeah, I'm looking. Keontae? Okay.
Jared: Guards Keonta number two. Yeah.
Christian: Are you serious?
Jared: Twenty one point seven it says here.
Rhees: Donovan, Keontae, Kyle Philipowski.
Christian: And Philipowski.
Jared: Philipowski.
Rhees: Number four.
Jake: I can't wait. I can't wait for Kyle Phil Powski's ascension and you guys will just have to bow down to me.
Jared: I literally cannot wait either because he played for the Jabs and that'll be awesome. All star?
Christian: Ascension to what? Call your call your shot, Jake.
Jake: Ascension to being
Rhees: Bank.
Jake: an all star.
Christian: You're not serious. You think Kyle Philipowski's gonna be an all-star?
Jake: I'm serious. in two to three seasons. I think he'll make I think he'll make two or three All Star teams. There you go. There's there's my prediction.
Jared: In the MBA or
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: Two or three. Yeah, can he start again? Done. Yeah.
Christian: I don't even think he'll be a starter in two to three seasons.
Jake: Doubt all you want.
Christian: I will the easy
Rhees: I I I want it on the record and I said this a few pods ago when I went to a basketball game with Jake. I was I was very impressed with Kyle Philipowski in one game that I watched.
Jake: Listen, listen, two seasons ago you would have been doing one season ago you would have been saying the same thing to me if I was saying this about Keontae George.
Christian: Here's okay, here's my rebuttal and it has nothing to do with Philipowski as a basketball player. I don't think he'll ever make an all-star team just because of the weird babysitter thing. Like I don't think that I don't think that the fans will like him enough because that's so weird.
Jared: Are they still together?
Jake: Alright. Now we're now we're just getting into weird reasons Christian dislikes certain people.
Jared: Are they together?
Christian: That that is a very legitimate reason to dislike him. I'm not I'm not in the mini minority on that one.
Jared: I think they're still still a couple. They're fianc they're engaged. Kyle and his babysitter.
Rhees: Well you will you
Jake: To be clear to
Jared: That's crazy.
Jake: to be clear to all listeners, I'm talking just about basketball. I I was not analyzing this whole worldview of Kyle Philipowski.
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jared: No, you're talking personal life. He's an all star.
Christian: Well, he's an NBA All-Star.
Rhees: Jared, will you tell us number four?
Jared: Outside. Yeah, it is Walter Walter Clayton Jr.
Christian: Okay, Summer League sucks. Really? What did I thought Sensabal would have gotten it 'cause he exploded last year and then they shut him down immediately. I thought I thought that would have put him over. Is there like a minimum game?
Jared: That's the top five. No, because the number one on here is one game and it was forty two points or whatever. Marcus Banks, wherever that is.
Rhees: Pop off, Marcus.
Christian: Hang on. so there is a minimum then, if he's not on there? Or is he before two thousand seventeen?
Jared: Minimum No, this these stats go back apparently from two thousand four, two thousand five. As like quai all that stuff. The last one I wanna talk about is where does our good friend Cody Williams land? There's five hundred on this list. He made the top five hundred. Just Okay. What do you think, Christian?
Jake: two hundred two hundred and fifty six.
Christian: Two hundred and fifty seven. No, guess two fifty five. I was closer. Thank thank you.
Jake: It's so stupid.
Rhees: No guess.
Jared: No and no guests, so probably not on this list. Log Jacob in. Okay. Three hundred and seventy five. Good job, Christian. You're better than Jake's by one and no submission, so.
Christian: Better by than Reese by infinity is what that means. I'm not a math gay. moving forward with this podcast, we are finally out of the summer where we're analyzing summer league basketball, which feels really good because next month college football starts. We're gonna have more of an emphasis on BYU football, Utah football, a little bit of Utah State football, got my Agus hat on, and NFL connections with the state of Utah. So
Jared: Yeah. Kind of interesting.
Christian: Don't worry about it, we'll still have some Jazz and Mammoth content, but there is gonna be kind of a shift coming forward. Are you ready for it? That's for you, Taylor Swift.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: Pretty good. Too bad we don't have any money to spend on licensing rights or else we would have had a sick outro right there. But thanks for sticking with with us. We'll catch you next week. Later.
Jake: Bye.
Jake: Yeah. Especially the jazz.
Christian: It was a tough watch. It was it was a tough watch, man.
Jake: Reese, you take us Reese take
Jared: Especially the Knicks. Have you watched any of their games? sorry. Watch any of their games the Knicks is summer league games? They had one game, they scored forty two points or forty five points. Horrendous. Anyways, sorry, go ahead.
Jake: The next I did not watch any Knicks games. That's wild. Cause we gave up we gave up forty two points to the Clippers in one quarter. Reese, this was your first experience watching basketball in a while. What'd you think?
Rhees: As as we've are as we've discussed offline, I I'm glad that I was into the NBA enough at different periods to not entirely judge the jazz and what what we're about to watch this season off of Summer League, because if I didn't have that context, I don't know if I would have I would watch the Jazz this season. Like there's all this hype around Darren Peterson. It's been so exciting and incredible. And then and then I turn on the game against the Wizards and it might have been the worst basketball I've seen in ten years.
Christian: It was the worst basketball I've seen in my whole life. And I spent the most on that ticket than I've spent on any basketball game ever. So that was a really cool dynamic for me. you guys know this already. I because I texted you and I s use the same dramatic text when I complain about this every time. Do you know how many fouls were called in that game? It's for context. Each player for some reason gets 10. There were 60 fouls called.
Rhees: Mm-hmm.
Jake: The games are forty minutes.
Jared: In a forty minute game.
Christian: Yeah, it was painful. It was literally painful. And it was tough. I was by myself, which it's I just made lots of bad choices that put me in that position. And the game sucked. So it was it was terrible, terrible and one of the worst nights of my life probably.
Jared: How is going to a game I was going to a game by yourself? I've never done that in my life.
Christian: So yeah, it I thought it would be like going and eating at a restaurant by myself, which you know I've done that since high school, Q sad violin music. but that that was actually way sadder than I meant for it to be. I enjoy eating by myself. Anyways, I thought it would be like that, right? Where it's just like I can go vibe, hang out. What I didn't account for is that, you know, you go, you sit it's it's general admission, right? So you can sit in any open seat. So I just went down.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Christian: as low as I could go and I just started asking people like, hey, are these seats taken? Are these seats taken? And finally I had to ask like five or six people because they were all saving seats. Finally this guy was like, No, no, no, it's fine. So I sat and I sat down and it was nothing like eating lunch by yourself because you are like four inches from the people next to you. And they're just really small seats. And I was anxious the whole time. It was it was not a good experience for lots of reasons.
Jake: That sounds awesome.
Rhees: So what it's what it's actually like is going to a new school, a new junior high school, and having to go and sit at a crowded table and you don't know anyone.
Christian: Yeah, you have to like squish in between two friend groups that are talking with each other and pretend like they're not thinking who is this freak sitting next to me that nobody knows. That's just you're in who just came to Vegas on a whim to watch this terrible basketball game. But anyways, I learned a lesson. let's talk about it though. I I did. I gotta see I mean, I wanna say it's Darren Peterson's first real game, but
Jared: Why is this freak by himself? But you gotta see him play. Yeah.
Christian: That's still not even true. Saw AJ DeBonsa's first real NBA game. he had an awesome dunk. That was cool. Peterson had an awesome setback three. That was cool. That was about it. That was about it. But let's let's talk about summer league just in general, right? So the Jazz, they have a game tomorrow night. I think it's their last one. I I tried to figure out today how the Summer League tournament works. It doesn't make any sense to me and there's no explanation. So I
Jared: That's the recap.
Jake: We've lost every game, so it makes sense that we're out pretty early.
Christian: Yeah, so I I mean the next day there are games, they're all T B D, so I I would assume that if we l win tomorrow there will be another one. I don't think we're gonna win tomorrow because aside from Darren Peterson, the Jazz Summer League team sucks. So let's focus on the positive first. things that you were excited about because of Summer League.
Jake: So bad.
Christian: Okay, moving on. Things we're not excited about. Jake Jake will Jared we'll start with you.
Jake: I mean
Jared: Crickets. All right. I'll I'll start with Yeah,
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jared: I'll start with so the pause the thing that I'm excited about. Darren Peterson's offense is very, very polished. Like it is abundantly clear he is far beyond a summer league player already. Like the way he moves, the way he can attack, they try to like put pressure on him. Everyone has a hundred fouls, so they can just whack him. all the time. They can just hit him on what all these things like and he handled the pressure pretty well. Like there's some moments, but I think that's expected. That's just kind of how basketball works. But he seemed like he could handle everything pretty well in his like when he like you said, that step back three he makes. There's kind of things that you can see the potential all there. There's like, that's a huge gap. Like with AJ DeBont, it's like, yeah, his physically is crazy, but his shots not there. Darren Peterson, everything's there. It just like there's just like it's just gonna mature and get get a little bit better and he'll know understand the game better at a higher level. Like and that's the only thing left. Like it just like seems like everything's there for him. So very exciting for Darren Peterson. That's the positive for the jazz.
Jake: Yeah, I don't think there's really any other positive for for the Jazz out of Summer League. But I agree, like hit there is real flow to Darren Peterson's game where he can get to anywhere he wants on the floor. And it's not like, okay, give me the ball. I'm gonna take 15 dribbles in a row and pound my way down to the block and then take a turnaround jump shot, right? It's like all within the flow of the offense, really fluid. He had some moves that were just like super quick decisions, and just like got past his guy. He didn't shoot it very well in Vegas. but he got good looks. So like I think that's just I mean, probably part nerves and just part it's your first time competing at this level or close to the NBA level at least. And like his his shot will start falling. I mean we s we see with rookies all the time coming in. They struggle to shoot initially You know, it's a lot faster pace and they just kind of got to settle in. We saw with Cooper Flagg last year. We saw with Donovan Mitchell at Utah when he was drafted. but like he's getting to the right spots and he's getting any shot he wants pretty much. And also he like you said, he's not really forcing much. He's playing within the flow of the offense. And I think he is going to be elite off-ball because he can get his shot off so fast. Like him.
Jared: Yeah.
Jake: I was just imagining like we have Keontae with the ball and then him and Lowry are coming off of like flare screens to catch and shoot three pointers. Like that's to have two players on your team who can catch and release that fast is gonna be incredible.
Rhees: Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, if Keonta can have another offensive year like he did last year, they'll have to respect him enough that will open up those kinds of shots for Lowry and D P.
Jake: Yeah, exactly. Like when when Darren Peterson is playing with the actual Jazz roster, he's not gonna be triple teamed immediately every time he gets the ball like he is in summer league. And also, not everybody can just hack him as many times as they want. Like literally I hate every single guard who guarded Darren Peterson 'cause they would just like go up s into his face and they all of them ended with like nine fouls every single game because they could. And it was so annoying to watch because they would just
Jared: Half as much.
Jake: And the ref can't call everything. So I I don't know. It it would it made Summer League horrendous. I have a lot of thoughts on how bad of a product Summer League is. and I guess it's not necessarily constructed for viewers. So I understand that. That's not what they're I I don't think they're really trying to sell it that much. But yeah, I mean when when he's playing with players that other teams and other defenses have to respect and guard, like he can cook almost anyone one on one. And it'll open up for other players as well.
Christian: Well, and that's what's nice too is you look at the other four guys who are probably gonna start for the Jazz, assuming that, you know, they go small and have Jaron Jackson slide over to the five, all five players can are legitimate threats to score, right, from all three spots. And so that opens up a ton of space for Peterson and everybody else, right? Whereas, you know, in in summer league, far and away the second best jazz player was Cody Williams, which is just a bad, bad position to be in, right? Where he's clearly your second best player. We'll get into him in a second.
Jared: gosh.
Jake: He averaged eight points by the way in summer league, his third year.
Christian: Yeah. It it was it was a disaster and like I don't know, it's one of those things where if the Jazz goal was to break Darren Peterson's will so they could rebuild him, they did a great job constructing that roster around him because it was just brutal.
Jake: It's literally Cody Williams is the only other NBA player on that roster. Like Blake Henson, I guess, maybe. We played Bez Mbang last year because we were trying to lose. Yeah, like th they're all G League players. Like we had no legitimate NBA prospects outside of Darren Peterson and Cody Williams.
Jared: We're trying to lose. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, and it was it was tough. Jared, go ahead.
Jared: Yeah, are we sure Cody Williams is an MBA prospect?
Christian: Well let's let's segue.
Jake: I think Cody well, okay. I'm gonna say Cody Williams it it is very clear he is not a player you put the the ball like you don't put the ball in his hands and tell him to go to work, right? He got it stolen probably 75% of the time he dribbled in summer league against rookies and G League players and thirty five year old dudes trying to make the league. Like it was horrendous.
Jared: Right.
Jake: Unless Cody Williams becomes like an elite defensive stopper, which he got freaking cooked a few times in summer league. He had some good defensive plays as well. Like that is his role. He needs to be able to hit corner threes and play good defense and dunk. And I think he can be elevated to be a role player in the league at those things. But I think that's pretty much his ceiling.
Christian: Well, that's what's frustrating and you know, segueing into things that we can we are concerned about, right? Coming in the summer league. Cody Williams, the difference between him and Ace Bailey and Darren Peterson is like the Grand Canyon. And it's not even, you know, Peterson and and Bailey, they played out of their minds, right? But they both missed a lot of shots, but they still were able to get to their spot. They were still able to do essentially whatever they wanted. But then you know, Cody Williams gets the ball, Peterson's sitting on the bench, Ace is resting, and it's like, Okay, let Cody cook and like it was brutal. Like there was one three. Yeah, he he doesn't. And that's what's so frustrating is it's like, hey, Bryce Sensbaugh who you as a what do you get drafted? Tenth, tenth overall, eighth overall. I get him and Taylor Hendricks mixed up. But yeah.
Rhees: He he doesn't have it in him.
Jared: Please don't let him cook. Yeah.
Jake: No. Cody? I think
Jared: Cody is the tenth.
Jake: eighth. Was he tenth? Okay.
Jared: He is tenth, yeah.
Christian: Okay. Well, regardless, lottery pick, right, versus Bryce Sensvah, who's a second round pick. Last year in summer league, Bryce Sensavah, he was head and shoulders better than everybody and he couldn't miss shots and the Jazz shut him down immediately. But Cody Williams, they've played him every single game essentially, and there were times where it's like, What do you like you fit in and that's a bad thing.
Jake: He missed a couple three pointers worse than I have ever missed a shot in my whole life. Like Jerry's gonna question that. But they were like, it was like a foot and a half to the left and short, or a foot and a half and like super strong. Like it was really bad.
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: I seen him show.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jared: Yeah, yeah. You I don't know who sent it, but in our chat we had the announcers I like had the announcers went for one of his shots and he's like, Ooh, not a good shot by Cody Williams. It's like the announce these neutral announcers like ooh. Not a good shot, dude.
Jake: Yeah.
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jake: Yeah, it was.
Rhees: Just fr from a talent perspective, right? Anyone who grew up around basketball, playing, watching, we're not talking hardcore enthusiasts or analysts or anything like that. I test Cody Williams is so inconsistent. Like he had plays where it's like this dude is athletic and he's he's a pro. And then the next minute he looks like the worst player on the court and he's making a fool of himself. And like he he he literally looks dumb and incompetent from a basketball perspective. just clarifying. In any event, it's it is it is crazy to me how apparent he the inconsistently inconsistent consistency problem is. And like Jake is saying, I think that makes his ceiling a average.
Jared: Which is literally the only perspective we have of him. So yeah.
Rhees: to decent role player if he can stay in his lane. so the question I have for you guys is does he know how to stay in his lane? 'Cause I haven't watched him during the regular season.
Jake: I think he does. I don't think he's gonna get much chance on this team though. Like
Jared: He had his chance.
Jake: We're gonna be playing like I'm imagining our forward lineup is or our sorry, our like shooting guard small forward lineup is gonna be Darren Peterson and Bryce Senspa and Ace Bailey. And that's pretty much gonna be it, unless it's like garbage time. So like I don't see him getting more than ten minutes in a game. And if he doesn't, he's he doesn't have really a chance to develop. So I don't know, which I think is the right move by the Jazz. Like I d I don't think it's worth pouring minutes into him at this point. Right? Like
Rhees: Well think how much time have they given him, how much how much resources, coaching and mentorship have they already poured into this guy?
Jake: Probably a lot. But I like I saw a quote for anybody who follows the the NBA, there's a guy in the Bulls named Patrick Williams, and coming out of college, he was like projected to be the next Kawhi Leonard, right? Everybody was super psyched, and the Bulls have just barely given up on the idea that he could become Kawhi Leonard, and it's been like six years, right? And like Cody Williams on paper has the physical gifts to be an elite basketball player. But
Jared: They extended them and yeah.
Jake: It's just not there, right? And and I think at this point you just cut your losses and see what he can do with ten minutes. But likely I think he'll probably be included just kind of as a a salary add on in some trade at some point.
Christian: Yeah, he's he's very fortunate that his big brother is so good. Because if he wasn't, like he would he would be with the Salt Lake Stars probably as they're like sixth or seventh man. But it's I mean he's had two full seasons where he was getting playing time because the Jazz were trying to lose. And the first season it was like, okay, go out there and develop. And then the second season it was like, Okay, go out there and play because you we know that you're gonna help us lose. And
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: I mean playing in your third summer league, you can't look like Cody Williams looked. You just can't. But
Jared: Also, you don't be wanna be playing in a third summer league. Like that's not a good sign. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: Well, it's like if you guys remember when we went, we saw Kaminga, Jonathan Kaminga. It was probably his second summer league. And yeah, it well, and he looked incredible, right? Like he dominated and it was very clear he was the best player on the floor. And he is like
Jared: That's normal. Yeah.
Jake: So far and above Cody Williams at this point, and still a fringe NBA rotation player, right? Like out of it. Cody Williams.
Rhees: Yeah, I mean that comparison tells you everything you need to know about what's what's happening.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, and I mean you even look different different situation, right? Number two pick versus the number eight pick. Like there was no conversation is Dylan Harper gonna play in summer league? It's like of course not. He's not gonna play in summer league. Next year, Darren Peterson, there's not even gonna be a question. He's not playing, Ace Bailey isn't playing. But Cody Williams, it was like, Okay, Cody, you're gonna be you're gonna be the star. Go do it and he didn't do it. So Jared, you've watched a lot of AJ Debonzo stick it in the summer league. Things that you were excited about.
Jared: he looked like he was still like how he he played the same style he did in at BYU. So that was like he didn't didn't feel like things were really no I mean it's a more of a b pro style. Like it's so it works well in the MBA. He does his jerking his head back thing and the foul baiting, which is just kind of at modern MBA stuff. That's what a lot of people do. it works.
Rhees: For better or for worse.
Jared: He got a lot of free throws from it. He said how many free throws from it. Nine. See that yeah. Okay, Jake. Not Drake. So it's I mean, yeah, he he scored a lot of points. They would double him. This how it was in call and in at BYU as well. It's gonna take a minute for a shot to get there. I don't doubt that he'll work hard and he'll get better and become
Rhees: So many free throws.
Jake: He shot nine percent from three.
Christian: Nine nine point one. Don't don't short Jake.
Jake: yeah, sorry. One one for eleven. One for eleven.
Jared: below average to average three point shooter. It doesn't seem like it's his strength. Maybe I mean he can figure it out. A lot of people have turned around their shot. Qui Leonard most famously. So we'll see how it goes. Washington fans are like sty st still really, really excited about it all. Which they should be 'cause Darren our AJ Devonce is amazing. So it's good. It he'll he'll be good. We'll see how the Wizards use him. And how the how how really how it works with Trey Young and how that's all gonna that's this is gonna be a really kind of interesting dynamic to try to to do it. 'Cause I think there's gonna be tendency for them to be like, you know, when when the Celtics have been the worst with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, it's when it's like your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn stuff. And I think that could be kind of like that with with them. So we'll see how that goes.
Jake: Yeah, that's that's my concern with AJ on the Wizards, is he seems to need the ball on the offensive side to make things happen. And Trey Young is predominantly one of the highest usage rate players in the league. So I I hope they kind of stagger them. Like they'll obviously start together, but then I hope they kind of stagger their minutes because I really want to see AJ leading an NBA offense, not just You gotta go score, but like, hey, you're creating for everybody else. Cause I think he has that ability. Yeah. And I think that will help him mature a lot more than just like, okay, hey, you're playing off ball because Trey Young has the ball. And also, maybe this is not gonna happen, but maybe the coaches in Washington can finally get Trey Young to play off ball a little bit like Steph Curiesque, you like coming off screens and stuff. Cause Trey Young has that shooting ability. He's just never
Jared: Yeah, he has a vision to do it. Yeah.
Jake: Played that style. So
Christian: Yeah, and I I think if Washington is smart, they need to understand that it's not AJ's job to figure out how to play next to Trey Young. It's Trey Young's job to figure out how to play next to AJ DeBonsa, right? Like he is the future. If the Wizard this current iteration of the Wizards is going to be successful, it's squarely on the shoulders of AJ DeBonsa. It's not on Trey Young. Right. And I think they need to figure out how to do that. Cause I mean, you watch and again it's Summer League, right? So you watch the first game against the Jazz. The Jazz tried two things. They tried to throw Cody Williams at him, which we've already talked about, not, you know, but that that's his strength. If he has a strength that's as a defender, okay, and he dominated Cody, right? And then they tried throwing these big body guys. I couldn't even begin to guess their names. Right. They're was that is that the American Fork guy? It it was him and another big who they just kinda tried to body him, which I think is a good strategy 'cause AJ's kinda struggled with strength and size of the big twelve at least, and I think that'll be his biggest
Jake: Yeah. Jackson Kohler.
Jared: Utah Zone. Yeah.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: hurdle in the NBA, but he just like got around them so easy. You know, he just it didn't matter what they did, he just dominated. And, you know, some of the shots that he normally hits didn't fall, but he showed 100% why he was, you know, the number one pick and an elite, elite, elite prospect.
Jake: Yeah. So I I'm gonna disagree with something Jared said. I think I think he has I think he has the potential to become an elite shooter with the proper NBA coaching. Like thinking of players like and maybe not an elite three point shooter, but like an
Christian: I got nervous for a second.
Jared: Well he he's an elite mid range shooter, like already.
Jake: Okay.
Jared: So I think it's three. The only issue is three. In college he was average. Now you step it back two feet or three feet, depending where you're at. And so it's not gonna make it any easier.
Jake: Yeah. Well, what he reminds me of, I mean, obviously he's way more polished than these players were offensively coming out of college, but like Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard, both really athletic guys that have like a similar shot style, I feel like, where they're really good at like that mid range turnaround footwork type shot. but like Jimmy Butler never became like a really good three point shooter, but Kawhi did. And like I think there's a real path for AJ to to develop like that kind of shot. And I think honestly he's gonna have to change some of his mechanics of his shot to be able to get there and be really consistent with it, at least from three. But like he has he has so much potential in every area, even like defensively. You know, there was that quote of him being interviewed of how he didn't really try at BYU on defense, which I think is super lame. 'Cause he was he said he was kind of lazy in college on defense. But I'll be interested to see. I mean, I don't get that 'cause it's like, dude, you're literally playing triple the games. So why why were you being lazy when you had less game split play? But anyways, it'll be interesting to see what he does defensively, and then how his offense continues to develop with the NBA coaching.
Christian: Yeah, and I mean talking, you know, he started things we're excited about, things we're worried about, right? That's that quote coming out saying I was lazy on defense. I I don't wanna call it like a major red flag 'cause the Wizards didn't draft him because he's gonna be an elite defender, but like Does that really change? Like all of a sudden are you no longer lazy? No. Right.
Rhees: I I had the
Jake: No.
Rhees: same thought when you guys sent that. And, you know, from a clinical perspective, that that is a that is a very difficult thing to change. You know, just a lot of people like the idea of I'm gonna move and I'm gonna be a new person or I'm gonna go to this new job and I'm gonna start a old habits die hard and it takes work to change and they can be changed, but it's not that simple.
Jared: Area.
Jake: Well, plus if he's if he's carrying a big load offensively, like it's it's harder to put a ton of effort on the defensive end. And that's why the most elite players of all time were elite on both ends, because it's a really, really difficult thing to do.
Christian: Especially Yeah. And that's exactly what I was gonna say, right? Like it's easy to say, I'm gonna try really hard on defense, but there's so many new things that he's trying to adjust to in the NBA and all of a sudden it's Wednesday afternoon and you're playing, you know, New Orleans on, you know, whatever T V channel and I don't know, like nobody cares. And you've been playing basketball for three and a half months, three games a week, like you're gonna try hard on defense. I just don't buy it. But That's okay. Like I said, I mean, I think J Jake, I think that's a great point, right? Like if we're talking about all time greats and the fact that we're even bringing up this conversation for Devonta is a huge compliment to him anyways. But you start talking about all time greats, they're a lead on both ends of the floor. And that's gonna be the biggest thing that's gonna hold him back. 'Cause I think he'll be elite on offense and I think you're right, he'll probably develop a three point shot. But if he wants to be truly, truly, truly elite, he's gotta figure it out defensively and based entirely on one Summer League quote. I don't think he has it in him. No, we'll see. But like we'll s we'll see.
Jake: Well we've we've never known
Rhees: T V D.
Jake: we've never known Christian to overreact a summer league before.
Rhees: T V D.
Christian: I I overreact to everything. That's my thing. That's my thing. any f
Jake: But no, I the crazy the crazy thing about summer league is it seems like all top four picks in virtually any other year would each one would have gone number one. Like that's the type of performance they've all had. So really, really cool draft class.
Christian: Yeah, it's been fun to watch. any final summerly thoughts, Jared? I you've got your hand up.
Jared: I do. I am so glad like kinda kinda going off what Jake said, I'm so glad we got the second pick. We've talked about this a hundred times. I'm glad we got a top four pick, I guess, more specifically, because the drop off from from Caleb Wilson to Keaton Wagler is freaking night and day.
Jake: Key Waggler has had one good quarter of summer league and it was against the Jazz.
Jared: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're right.
Christian: And it was right after I said, This guy sucks.
Rhees: Let's put it this way. As someone who doesn't know Ball, so to s so to speak, I've never heard that name, at least haven't remembered it, and I haven't seen any highlights of this guy from the algorithm powers of be.
Jake: Ha. I've seen plenty of low lights. I sa I saw one where someone was like, Keaton Waggler, there's still time to change your career, bro. And it was like a a possession of him having a turnover in the backcourt.
Jared: R yeah.
Christian: Speaking speaking of not Yeah.
Jared: Ha ha.
Christian: S speaking of not seeing a lot of highlights, I think the worst pick to have in this no, not the worst pick to have in this draft, but top four pick. I think the worst pick would be to have number three. Cause if Caleb Wilson explodes and if you only watch social media highlights, he's gonna be so good. And I have not really seen a lot of boozer highlights and I am
Jake: Yeah.
Jared: He this that's not his not his game, yeah.
Rhees: I've seen a lot of Caleb Wilson.
Jake: Christian Christian, I told you this a few days ago, but my take on Summer League is if you are for the NBA, if you're above average athleticism and you're playing in summer league, you will dominate and you will look a lot better than someone like Darren Peterson, who Darren Peterson is athletic, but he's not on the level of like AJ and Caleb Wilson.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: Because you're just so much better at athleticism than every other player on the floor that you can just get wherever you want and you get whatever shot you want and he can literally rise up and shoot over anybody, he can dunk over anybody. Like the competition is just too low for like that that high of athleticism.
Christian: Yeah. I like how you said if you're good at athleticism I am not, but that sounds awesome. No, I think you're right though. any final thoughts on Summer League?
Jake: If you're good at athleticism, it is a skill. get rid of reviews, please. We don't need freaking reviews in summer league. I don't need to see if I don't need to see if there's a freaking flagrant foul on an elbow. I don't need coaches to be able to challenge like God, please. It's already painful enough.
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: Yes.
Rhees: V A R baby.
Christian: Ha ha ha. Yeah.
Jared: Yeah, I was watching one game I forgot what game I was watching. There the guy his last name's Cooper, he played for Michigan State. He looks like he's gonna be bald in a a year and a half from now. And he does his dumb play and he immediately turns to the re the coach and starts doing, you know, the let's challenge it review sign. I'm like, What are we doing, dude? Like you're not gonna be in this league. You don't have the clout to like turn to your whatever, your coach and demand of review. This is not what we're doing.
Christian: There's nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm.
Jake: Yeah. It's like a s it's a slightly more formal pickup game. Like that's literally what's it what it is. Like let's just keep it that.
Jared: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Call your own fouls.
Christian: Yeah.
Jake: And I get you're trying to train refs, whatever. We don't need reviews. If you want anybody to ever watch it, get rid of freaking reviews on Summer League.
Christian: one final comment on the refs, which was just an interesting observation. seeing these guys that are like seven feet tall and you know the NBA is introducing a lot of female refs, and it is so jarring to see this five foot two woman standing next to a seven foot dude who, you know, is just like broader and bigger. It's crazy. But anyways, I that's how boring the game was that I went to. I was like, wow, look at that size
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jake: I did I I did see one ref who was beating all the players down the court every single time. It was very impressive. He was he had some freaking wheels.
Christian: Uh-huh. Yeah, good for him. Good job, bruv. All right. let's do some trivia. Reese, you got some trivia for us, man.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: Jared, you got some trivia f s for us, man.
Jared: Jake, you some c yeah, it's me. It's me. Yeah.
Christian: is it Jared? Do we give him another shot? I'm sorry. Okay.
Jake: It's Jared, yeah, we're we're letting Jared try again.
Jared: This is
Jake: Against all of our better judgment.
Jared: this is twenty twelve Olympic US Olympic team, this redeem team stuff going on right now. Okay. Sticking with Summer League. The Jazz I want you guys to guess the Jazz's top three MBA Summer League scorers. And they're all I'll give you some hints. Total point I'm points per game. So the
Jake: Like total points.
Jared: Well, it's from twenty seventeen. So I'll give you a hint. It's from twenty seventeen on. That there's one. that's and then I want you guys to guess number two and number three as well. So top three NBA Summer League scorers for the Utah Jazz.
Jake: I know one of them.
Christian: twenty seventeen on.
Jared: The last ten years, ten seasons or whatever.
Jake: All right.
Jared: They're all from the last ten season, I should say. This goes back to two thousand four, two thousand five.
Christian: And it's just points per game, right? Not total points. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Jake: They just don't Yeah.
Jared: Points per game. Not total points. Because Cody Williams might have total points because he's played for three seasons. No, he doesn't. I that'll be a fun surprise. Ask there's five hundred players on this list and we get to guess where he's at.
Christian: I I don't even think he would.
Rhees: Ha ha ha.
Jake: He's probably four hundred and ninety-eight.
Jared: Yeah.
Christian: All right. in hockey news today, the NHL released their schedule today. Reese, the Utah Mammoth. How are you feeling, man?
Rhees: So, as I said recently, the NHL shortened their preseason by quite a bit. I once again didn't write down how much they shortened it by, but I think it went from like eight or nine games to f three or four. Like way they cut it in half. And then they added two regular season games. So it went from eighty two to eighty four, our first game and home opener. So obviously those aren't aren't always the same, but they are for us this year. Guess what day it is?
Christian: Halloween.
Rhees: October first. Do you guys know what we're gonna be doing on October first?
Jared: Watching that game. Together.
Christian: Are we hanging out?
Jake: Yeah.
Rhees: yeah, we will be driving down to St. George unless we all want to go to the game and go to St. George after. If any in any event I figured you'd fly in and then drive down with us, besides the point. so it's kind of a it's both a bummer, but also something we experienced. We have a very heavy road schedule in the first half of the season.
Christian: Sounds fun for you guys. Awesome. Sick. Cool.
Jake: Ha ha.
Christian: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: And which was the same as last year. And similarly heavy home schedule in the second half. So thirteen of our f of our first eighteen games are away. we'll see how we do with this. I think we are much better suited for it. One, because we have experience from last year, and two, we added a bunch of veterans who are gonna help us on those gritty away games. we don't participate in any away home openers, which we did several times last couple years. We have our winter classic on December thirty first at Rice Eccles Stadium against the Colorado Avalanche, which will be pretty epic, I think.
Christian: It's gonna cool.
Jared: Have you looked at tickets for those? It's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, it's super expensive.
Rhees: It's so expensive.
Christian: Is it really?
Rhees: Yeah, it's like it's like four hundred dollars for the cheapest ticket or something.
Christian: Really? 'Cause what does rice cycles hold? Like fifty thousand? Forty eight? Wow. That's yeah. Huh.
Jared: Yeah, something like that. I thought the tickets would be cheaper because it's like triple th capacity or whatever. Nope.
Rhees: Something like that. But I just just for context, they only do and I could be wrong, but they only do one winter classic in the entire NHL. So this is all NHL fans who like the Winter Classic want tickets. And it's the first time it's ever happened in Utah and so on. So I there's a there's a pretty high demand.
Christian: Fifty one thousand people. Just so you know. Yeah, thank you.
Rhees: Well, and a good guess. and then last this last year obviously we had the Olympic break. so February was pretty quiet for the NHL. we have the All Star Weekend coming back, which I have never followed as an N NHL fan. It is February 5th and 6th. It is five teams three on three. Which I think will be interesting. But throw I mean three on three overtime is notoriously enjoyed by
Jared: That's gonna be fun. That's gonna be chaos, yeah.
Rhees: More casual viewers, more hardcore NHL fans think it's too random, but I think it's yeah, pretty much. I think it is electric. So I think it could be really enjoyable to watch a five team three on three tournament.
Jake: Everyone except for Canadians, right? Yeah. I mean, literally everyone loved when they did the didn't they do like US versus World or something or or like a World Cup type Yeah. Like that that overshadowed NBA All Star Weekend and everybody was like, How do we figure out how to be good like the NHL for All Star Weekend?
Rhees: the four nations.
Jared: Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, four nations.
Rhees: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Popped off.
Jared: So we can't do that. We just beat Canada. We need to delay our rematch of Canada for as long as possible.
Jake: Ha ha ha
Christian: Yeah.
Rhees: a hundred percent, 'cause they will be coming back with a vengeance.
Jake: Ha ha.
Christian: Polite vengeance.
Rhees: so that's that is the schedule update. Main thing here to consider as I highlighted is if we are not looking amazing in our first 20 games, just chill. This is it is exactly what happened last season. We are definitely better this year. we're just gonna have to see how we respond to a very heavy away start. And the mammoth have notoriously been good when we have practice time. Andre Tournier, the To Tourny, the coach. seems to do really well when he has practice time with the team and so we'll we'll see what how it goes.
Christian: Hmm. I like it. Yeah, I remember last year. You were tell you I I don't know why I remember this so vividly, but you sent us a tweet where it was like at this point in the season, teams that have had this many away games and it scored or not scored this many points, but have earned this many points in the standings have only not made the playoffs like ninety three percent of the time. And for some reason that's etching in my brain forever. But hopefully we can have a similar situation and it'll be interesting to see, right? Where This is the first season that the Mammoth have had expectations and it's I I'm hopeful that even if we do have a slower start, we will have added enough maturity to overcome that, right? Where you have the mix of slow start plus expectations could cause a young team to maybe fall apart. So fingers crossed that the veterans that we brought in is able to help weather the storm.
Jake: Yeah, I think that's pretty typical of young teams with new expectations to to struggle out of the gate, but then we'll go on a crazy winning streak.
Rhees: We we are really good at home. We had some really big winning streaks at home last year. And I think that we we have enough experience. Clayton Keller came out at the beginning of last season and straight up said if we do not make the playoffs, it will be a disappointment and a failure. And so they did have expectations last season, but they never had to follow up a successful season of making the playoffs. to Christian's point. So yeah. We'll see. I'm looking forward to I I am very I'm obviously bullish and optimistic, but only time will tell.
Christian: Yeah, I love it. Well the Delta Center I I wonder if that the Delta Center renovations played a part in the
Rhees: So I I in my brief research right before this, supposedly it did not. I am not so sure about that. Obviously our first game is a home game, so it will have to be ready enough. But you know, the tweets that Ryan Smith sent out like two days ago, everyone's saying this is nowhere near ready. but we're I am no construction manager, so I'm sure they'll have it ready enough 'cause there's a lot of money.
Christian: If only we had if only we had a friend that was an expert in that field that could opine. Yeah. all right, let's move on. So it's it's been kind of fun to watch the World Cup, right? Because, you know, we've had several soccer games every day for the past month. And in several different social circles by several different people, I've heard along the same lines of wow, soccer is actually really cool. It's been really enjoyable to watch. I wanna pay more attention, I wanna follow soccer more, right?
Jake: Yeah, that would be helpful.
Christian: And it's been interesting to see people learning the nuances of the game. And Utah, it's still, you know, hockey is still a relatively new sport in the state of Utah. And I think that people are still who might be interested in following hockey are still kind of looking for more reasons to follow hockey. Right. And then we we kind of want to bring that all together and give our listeners some reasons why the NHL is such a good product and kind of compare and contrast the NBA. Not to say that the NBA is a bad product, but as we alluded to earlier, the NHL does things that the NBA struggles with and the NBA obviously just has a much bigger pull right now in the United States media market. So let's talk about it. What does the NHL do well? Reese, I know we've been sticking with you, but I'm gonna keep going back to you 'cause I can depend on you, unlike the other two guys. What does the NHL do well?
Jared: Ha ha.
Rhees: yeah, and I obviously I know the three of you have thoughts, but I I I will keep it very to the point here. I think the NHL has a better live product, and I think the NBA has a better media product. the NHL g hockey atmosphere, stoppage time, grit culture, playoffs, I think across the board are absolutely electric and unreal. And as as someone who has grew up going to jazz game. Jazz games. My dad has sat courtside with Jerry Sloan through business relationships. Like, like I grew up around the jazz, enjoying the jazz, like as a as a casual fan. And I went to more mammoth games last year than maybe all the not not all the jazz games combined, but we're it we're close. The the live product, and it I live, you know, 50 minutes away from the Delta Center.
Jared: Mm.
Rhees: the live product is is fantastic. The media product, on the other hand, it's hard to follow the puck for a lot of people. The game is not an in immediately intuitive, which we've talked about before for people who didn't grow up playing hockey, which is most people in Utah. And the barrier to entry to actually go play and understand the game is is is a challenge. So any thoughts on any of those things?
Jake: Yeah, I agree on your latter points for sure. Like every school has a basketball court. Very few schools have a an accessible hockey rink, right? I knew like one or two kids growing up that played hockey and they were kind of weird. But like Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's fair. That's fair.
Christian: Same. Yeah.
Jared: The guy's sucked. Yeah. I won't say his name. He he sucked.
Rhees: Everyone at your school is weird, but continue.
Jared: Ha ha ha.
Christian: Yeah, yeah.
Jake: But yeah, I mean and and I think like somebody who's never watched basketball could sit down and watch basketball and within five minutes understand the basics of the game. With hockey that's not the case. Like there's just so many things where you're like, wait, why are they stopping wait, why are they facing off right there? Wha what is icing like
Rhees: And right,
Jared: Yeah.
Rhees: and that's why them I think the media product of the NBA is just it's it's far superior. But then, you know, how how did how have you guys experienced the live product of the NHL compared to the NBA?
Christian: It's incredible. I mean, look, I haven't been to a mammoth game, but I've been to a Golden Knights game. And I think part of it is we got really sick tickets from a friend. But it is an incredible product that everybody like everybody in the arena cares about it. And it's awesome. Like the it's it's so electric.
Jared: Yeah. Yeah, it's a different kind of fan that's in the hockey games. Like you just get people are they're very, very passionate because it's such a newer, like niche kind of sport for I mean, it's new here obviously. There's only like certain pockets in America that like that's everyone's super into it, you know, the Midwest, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, like all that, and then I guess Massachusetts, right? And then Pacific. or Atlantic Northeast area. So it's it it's a very s if you're if you like if you like hockey, you're really into hockey. So when you're there in the in the arena and the it's just nonstop action, the subs are c like can while the game's going, the subs are happening. And so yeah, so it's you're yeah, line changes. Thank you. when that's all happening so fast and like there's just a better product. And there's not the
Rhees: Line changes.
Jared: the stoppages for timeouts, the T V timeouts, like the NBA has maximized how much money they can get out of the game. With with all the T V timeouts, with all the reviews and things they've implemented recently that just like the end of a basketball game is painful to get through sometimes just because of how much bureaucracy and like red tape they kinda have to go through to make it happen. So it's I'm a basketball guy. I grew up playing basketball. So for me, I like I'd rather go to a jazz game than a mammoth game. But it's no it's not a question which one is like a better atmosphere. 'Cause I mean and the jazz have sucked for forever, so that's part of it, right? But it's it's just like everyone's super invested. They have their cool traditions they're doing and it's just something you don't get with the NBA. there's the same amount of games, right? But it's the stars in the NHL play. not kinda culture of hockey. It's kinda like the football culture where it's like you just play. If you can play, you play. in the N N B A it's not like that. And then they've been incentivized to be like that, right? They still these get these massive contracts that are completely guaranteed and and things like that. So it's exciting. I'm glad we both to satisfy both needs.
Jake: Yeah, the continuity of play is definitely a huge plus for the NHL. And that was something like Christian mentioned at the beginning, watching soccer. Like it there's just continuous play, very few stoppages. Like we're not stopping to freaking review an out of bounds call 15 minutes into the game. Like I've said this to you guys so many times. Video reviews are ruining sports. They're so bad. All of them are so bad. Like have automated Detections, like that's great if you want for like the NBA on the three point line. There's no way they don't have the technology to automatically detect if a player is is stepping on the three point line or not. Just do it automatically, adjust the score. Don't have the refs. I mean, I guess the refs usually look during a timeout, but like that's that's the biggest contrast to me between the NBA and the NHL is continuity of play. NBA feels like it's just stopping all the time.
Rhees: Well and with the NHL it's like if it stops, it's because of two dudes just duked it two set you know, six five dudes just duked it out on ice skates. Like, that's a that's you know, I can I can live with that stoppage time.
Jake: Yeah. Bring fighting back to the NBA.
Rhees: Yeah.
Jared: Fighting with fans. Like they're when they did with Yeah, Metal Peace, run our test, yeah.
Jake: Yeah. Mouse in the palace.
Christian: Yeah. Yeah, that was Ronner Test. That wasn't meta.
Jake: Yeah, not Meta World Peace. Meta World Peace would never.
Jared: That's true. But he he's different after that. Yeah.
Christian: Yeah, well I feel like this s this segment turned into hockey rules, NBA sucks. And I d I I think I don't know. I just obviously that's not actually what we're saying, but bringing it back to the positives of the NBA. The NBA, I think, collectively has the most unique elite talent compilation anywhere, right? 'Cause you get these guys who are, you know, six five is considered usually undersized for the NBA. So you get these guys who are six eight, six nine with forty plus inch verticals, who are super skilled with the ball. And when the NBA is good, like there's nothing better than the NBA. Especially you go to the playoffs, right? You get a game seven. If the NBA can figure out a way to bottle that, like there's no reason why the NBA shouldn't dominate the sports market in the United States, including over the NFL, right? But I we just have gotten too sidetracked to I mean, I There's no reason the hockey should pass the NBA in anything. And they clearly have in several areas. And Adam Silver
Jake: Needs to step down.
Christian: He needs to step down. I saw I think I sent it to you guys the from the Onion where it was Adam Silver learning that his appearance is impacting the r the view of the NBA or something like that. He's
Jared: Yeah.
Jake: I saw somebody who tweeted that was like Adam Silver must not have grown up a basketball fan and just like the first exposure to basketball is when he became commissioner of the NBA. And so he's like making all these decisions from just like a purely business standpoint.
Jared: Ha ha ha.
Christian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and it's they spend so much time making making sure that the business is right and making sure maximizing media deals and getting enough stoppages in. But in reality, if you get the product right, everything else will come, right? And we just need to stop overthinking it. But when we're presidents of the world, guys, we will make things right.
Rhees: What the won the
Jared: We split power four ways as a single presidency. Yeah.
Jake: Ha ha ha.
Rhees: To I I I I mean we're probably wrapping up here, but Chr Christian, to add on to your point, like statistically, how many highlights can exist in hockey in 10 minutes? Hmm, I don't know. Four? NBA when it's right, when it's game seven of of a playoff series or or it anything. Like it can be twenty. The the highlight potential and the star potential in the NBA, not to mention you can see their freaking faces, like that's marketing and athleticism and comp it's it's incredible. And and honestly, pushing through just following the puck and who has the puck and who's who in the NHL, like that, that took watching for half, maybe three quarters of a season. And a lot of people just aren't going to put in that kind of time if they didn't grow up watching hockey. so and again, and even if you can follow the puck, it it's who who who's like I sometimes I'm still having to check like, who was who assisted that or who who shot that? Who did that go off of? Like, so you know, there there are challenges there, and I'm not sure, like unless the NHL or the fans are really willing to to change some stuff from a media perspective. I think that's gonna continue to be a big a big barrier to viewership.
Jake: Yeah, and I do think the NBA has an advantage in like today's era of social media because I think of any sport, it has the highest concentration of highlight clips per game. Right. Like there can be seven or eight highlights in a single game in the NBA, whereas like with hockey or football or baseball, it's like one or two, maybe. Right. So I think that's another big advantage. And also speaks to the point of what Christian was saying. Like the NBA I think has the mo the most elite athletes in the world.
Jared: It's not even really a question. Like it's it's very they're by far the most impressive athletes. yeah, in of any sport in any league. The NBA is insane. So
Christian: Yeah, I mean I'm trying to think of a way to segue this into our into our trivia and I just can't I can't make a good faith argument or a good faith connection connecting the elite level athletes of the NBA and somehow linking it to the top scores of Utah Jazz summer league history. But let's so is Bryce Senziball, that's my first guess. Is he on there?
Jake: Yeah.
Jared: D do you wanna do are we doing a group effort? We're trying to name all three?
Christian: Jake, I think you know one, so you give us yours.
Jake: We can we can go we can go individu do you wanna do group or you wanna do individual grasses? All right. I mean Donovan Mitchell, I would guess. Yeah.
Christian: I'm more of a group project guy when it comes to getting graded, so
Rhees: That's okay,
Jared: That's the number one. Yeah.
Rhees: so let it be known, that was my guess. I now have no good guesses.
Christian: Is he?
Jake: I'm gonna say Kyle Philipowski.
Christian: 'Cause he
Jared: That's number three. I thought that one would get you. Yeah. I didn't think
Christian: Are you serious? Summer League sucks. So okay, what how many points a game did Donovan Mitchell average in summer league?
Jake: Summer League MVP last year, baby.
Jared: That's true. That is true. twenty eight.
Jake: Wait, no, you can't say 'cause I okay.
Jared: I gonna ruin
Rhees: Well DP's D P was twenty eight.
Christian: Twenty eight. Okay. No, that was just Utah. Summer League. Like in Salt Lake.
Jared: Yeah, that's our total points per game for Eta Ethan.
Christian: man, since
Jared: So we have one and we have three. Who would be the th it's not Bryson, Spa.
Christian: And it's not Bryce Sensba. And it's not Cody Williams.
Jake: For number two
Jared: It's not Cody Williams, yeah, surprisingly.
Jake: Grayson Allen.
Jared: I don't was he drafted before then? No, it's on him.
Christian: That's the song.
Jake: No, he was drafted twenty eighteen. Darren Peterson then.
Christian: man.
Jared: He is number five. You can do top five, you wanna keep on guessing. It's from the last ten seasons.
Jake: Yeah, I'm looking. Keontae? Okay.
Jared: Guards Keonta number two. Yeah.
Christian: Are you serious?
Jared: Twenty one point seven it says here.
Rhees: Donovan, Keontae, Kyle Philipowski.
Christian: And Philipowski.
Jared: Philipowski.
Rhees: Number four.
Jake: I can't wait. I can't wait for Kyle Phil Powski's ascension and you guys will just have to bow down to me.
Jared: I literally cannot wait either because he played for the Jabs and that'll be awesome. All star?
Christian: Ascension to what? Call your call your shot, Jake.
Jake: Ascension to being
Rhees: Bank.
Jake: an all star.
Christian: You're not serious. You think Kyle Philipowski's gonna be an all-star?
Jake: I'm serious. in two to three seasons. I think he'll make I think he'll make two or three All Star teams. There you go. There's there's my prediction.
Jared: In the MBA or
Christian: Yeah.
Jared: Two or three. Yeah, can he start again? Done. Yeah.
Christian: I don't even think he'll be a starter in two to three seasons.
Jake: Doubt all you want.
Christian: I will the easy
Rhees: I I I want it on the record and I said this a few pods ago when I went to a basketball game with Jake. I was I was very impressed with Kyle Philipowski in one game that I watched.
Jake: Listen, listen, two seasons ago you would have been doing one season ago you would have been saying the same thing to me if I was saying this about Keontae George.
Christian: Here's okay, here's my rebuttal and it has nothing to do with Philipowski as a basketball player. I don't think he'll ever make an all-star team just because of the weird babysitter thing. Like I don't think that I don't think that the fans will like him enough because that's so weird.
Jared: Are they still together?
Jake: Alright. Now we're now we're just getting into weird reasons Christian dislikes certain people.
Jared: Are they together?
Christian: That that is a very legitimate reason to dislike him. I'm not I'm not in the mini minority on that one.
Jared: I think they're still still a couple. They're fianc they're engaged. Kyle and his babysitter.
Rhees: Well you will you
Jake: To be clear to
Jared: That's crazy.
Jake: to be clear to all listeners, I'm talking just about basketball. I I was not analyzing this whole worldview of Kyle Philipowski.
Rhees: Ha ha ha ha.
Jared: No, you're talking personal life. He's an all star.
Christian: Well, he's an NBA All-Star.
Rhees: Jared, will you tell us number four?
Jared: Outside. Yeah, it is Walter Walter Clayton Jr.
Christian: Okay, Summer League sucks. Really? What did I thought Sensabal would have gotten it 'cause he exploded last year and then they shut him down immediately. I thought I thought that would have put him over. Is there like a minimum game?
Jared: That's the top five. No, because the number one on here is one game and it was forty two points or whatever. Marcus Banks, wherever that is.
Rhees: Pop off, Marcus.
Christian: Hang on. so there is a minimum then, if he's not on there? Or is he before two thousand seventeen?
Jared: Minimum No, this these stats go back apparently from two thousand four, two thousand five. As like quai all that stuff. The last one I wanna talk about is where does our good friend Cody Williams land? There's five hundred on this list. He made the top five hundred. Just Okay. What do you think, Christian?
Jake: two hundred two hundred and fifty six.
Christian: Two hundred and fifty seven. No, guess two fifty five. I was closer. Thank thank you.
Jake: It's so stupid.
Rhees: No guess.
Jared: No and no guests, so probably not on this list. Log Jacob in. Okay. Three hundred and seventy five. Good job, Christian. You're better than Jake's by one and no submission, so.
Christian: Better by than Reese by infinity is what that means. I'm not a math gay. moving forward with this podcast, we are finally out of the summer where we're analyzing summer league basketball, which feels really good because next month college football starts. We're gonna have more of an emphasis on BYU football, Utah football, a little bit of Utah State football, got my Agus hat on, and NFL connections with the state of Utah. So
Jared: Yeah. Kind of interesting.
Christian: Don't worry about it, we'll still have some Jazz and Mammoth content, but there is gonna be kind of a shift coming forward. Are you ready for it? That's for you, Taylor Swift.
Jake: Yeah.
Christian: Pretty good. Too bad we don't have any money to spend on licensing rights or else we would have had a sick outro right there. But thanks for sticking with with us. We'll catch you next week. Later.
Jake: Bye.
