WEBVTT
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Syndicated source Material.
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Good evening, everybody. We are on our ways, on our
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ways to finishing up the other half, the back half
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of this epic fourteen parts saga Tonight source Material is
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covering parts eight through fourteen, and we are going to
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have ourselves ball. Maybe it's going to feel competitive, but
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of course not steering this ship alone. I have a
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good friend of ours, the Ratlich and Broadcasting Network, is
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so appreciative to have this person along to help us
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with some of the most beautiful visuals that have been
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given to our flagship show, The Long Road to Ruin
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and the creator of Soul Exodus. And my favorite part
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is sketchbook Saturday Epic Benjamin J. Cologne, how do you.
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Do, sir?
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Evening? I have booze this week, just in case.
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Now we're waiting for Jason Teasley who said he will
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be joining us here. Probably I just told him silence Skype,
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so it'll probably be a couple of minutes. Well, Teasley
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has joined us. Jason Teasley, how do you do, sir?
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Hey, look Bills.
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Oh, I'm half asleep and extremely tired.
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Okay, a better question, will you be awake? I know
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you said you got an hour. Can you handle an hour?
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I hope these work is a little bit of crying
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and testing my podcasting abilities.
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Once you get into later parts of this story, I
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may do some yelling, so that may keep.
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You awake, because who angry.
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We're picking up with issue eight. Obviously the cover you're
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looking at the cover, we got some beautiful, absolutely stunning
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Tom Lyle artwork. If you can get a hold of this.
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Page you want, But we see Venom.
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With the sonic gun blasting carnage, Benjamin, why don't you
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go ahead and give us your take on this cover,
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just real quick. You need to spend a minute if
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you want, just talking about what the heck's going on
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in this cover.
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Tom Lyle really loves drawing leaning towers, doesn't he.
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I don't know what dimension we're in here where stuff
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is just or mind you, Venom is that is awesome.
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He could just stand like he's perfectly standing on the
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ground on the side of a building. At least I
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think that's what's going on here. I can't tell, dude, I.
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Have no idea.
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Once again, the characters were drawn first and the background
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was drawn much later.
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But the gist of issue eight or part eight, our
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group of superheroes pretty much come together to try and
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lure a trap for Carnage, and they enlist Jay Jonah
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jameson of the Daily Bugle to put out like an
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article or a print of paper to get Carnage to
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come back to the asylum that he's from. Of course,
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Carnage falls for he goes back there with no problem
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and most likely he knows what's going on. They go
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back to the orphanage. We get a little bit of
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an origin story. Carnage talks about his past and how
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screwed up he was. Now our heroes get to jump
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on the villains here and we got a big fight.
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Morbius was told to hit the bricks. I don't know
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if his last year the issue before, but he gets
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back into the fight. Our heroes have the weapons and
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they're going to use them against Carnage. So we got
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the Sonic Gun, which is actually being handled by Venom.
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We have fire Star who's lasting Carnage with heat. Our
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heroes pretty much are winning in this battle and fire
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Stars just unrelenting and nailing him in the mb A
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suit is just dripping off of Cassidy. Venom is about
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to kill Carnage Spider Man jumps in and stops him,
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and in the midst of that, Shrike is able to
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go over there. If we all remember in the last
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podcast we talked about Carnage pretty much pimp slap Shriek.
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At one point, well Strake gets her revenge and just
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max and scratches the crap out of his face and
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he starts bleeding. What we established in the beginning of
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this series was about how the symbia was in his blood,
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and as soon as the blood starts dripping from his face,
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the Symbia then immediately takes over and Carnage, as beaten
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as he looked, gets right back up. And of course
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at the end he said, Carnage never dies. They've used
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all the weapons, and they thought they had this guy
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beat and it looked like they did, and he gets
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right back up. Now. One of the other things I
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should mention, there's a little bit of side story about
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how the rest of New York is practically going to
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eat everybody's going crazy. Some people have still got their
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wits about him, and there's a little bit of the
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fight flash. Thompson ends up showing up and stopping some
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ne'er do wells from doing any harm to I think
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it was May and Pete's dad. What's his dad's name again? There,
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Benjamin Richard, we'll call him here and Moulton Man shows up,
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But anyway, chaos ensues amongst New York so easily. What
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do you guys say about part eight here? Anything stick
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out to you? Did you enjoy the little recap of
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Carnage's origin.
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Issue A was? I loved the way that they showed
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the little backstory for Carnage and how he just got
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shaped and twisted into the psychopath that he was in
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the orphan each and justified why that he kind of
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went down the dark paths that he did. Of course,
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who can't side with the chaotic psychopath.
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There's a guy sitting there whipping him. If this is
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a young kid, obviously he's bullied. What we're getting a
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good shot of here is how he was treated as
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a young kid. And this actually will definitely come into
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play our last issue or second last issue, just to
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give you a good idea of the reason behind the man.
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Yeah, you see the guy with the Indiana Jones whip,
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and he's got like two or three belts there. It
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looks like a kindo stick a paddle like a barbed
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wire chair.
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Sandman.
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Yeah, it's like he's straight out of the ECW Hall
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of Fame match or something. And the Carnegie says that
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if they was way ahead of their time for the
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concept of tough love because of the beatings they received,
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anybody at that young age is going to get like
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severely beating and just tortures and stuff, is actually not
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going to be the most sociable and well adapted person
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growing up due to the beatings. So you can actually
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it gives you a little bit of sympathy for Carnage,
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which is surprising because in any carnage story to this
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point you don't really see him as a sympathetic character.
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But they're riding him with just these few panels as him,
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you want to feel sorry for him due to the
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abuse the separate in the Orphanage, Benjamin.
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What do you have to add here?
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Man?
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First start is before the story proper even opens, The
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inside front cover of this individual comic has an add
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for the Super Mario Brothers movie, which should give you
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a clue. That's got to be foreshadowing, doesn't it. Aside
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from that, these are little inconsistency things that I was
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talking about that. Probably only I get because I'm OCD
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like that. If you'll recall, in part two of Maximum Carnage,
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Carnage destroyed most of the sign at the top of
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the Daily Bugle building until only the word bug was left.
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Was supposed to be a message to Spider Man and
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Venom that he was back and get roughed up Jamison.
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Either Jamison had some expert quick repairs ordered to his
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sign despite New York City being locked up tight due
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to a citywide murdering spree by a family of homicidal freaks,
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or more likely the artists and editors dropped the ball.
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You decide, him and his Jamison and his strangely lopsided
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eyebrows in this first page. Once you see that, you'll
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never be able to unsee it.
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It's just caterpillars on his face.
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They picked up a little bit on the thread that
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was left behind in part five of the City Escalating
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in Violence. Yeah, you mentioned that that's going to keep
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coming into play. There's something about that that I'm going
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to have to talk about pretty soon. That annoyed me,
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But for now it's going along pretty nicely. Nice cameos
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by molten Man and Flash Thompson. The other thing is
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the heroes put a front page headline in the paper
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addressing for Carnage to come home to the orphanage he
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grew up in for some reason, and he does it.
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Yeah.
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Granted, these people are insane and have superpowers, but no
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one among them stopped to think that this might be
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a trap.
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I'm going with I'll give him the benefit of the
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doubts and say that he knew and he just wanted
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to get into another fight, because we see that happened.
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I half expected, like Admiral Agbar from Return of the
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Jedi to be on the next page off to one
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side about to say it.
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I'm just curious how they printed out. So when got
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that in the paper so quick and got it onto
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the streets.
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Yeah, and when we look at this whole series again,
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I think we're only talking about like two nights can
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be very long unless there's some time in here, like
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they open up. I assume it's daytime and the bugle
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must be really morning.
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In the In the first Carnate storyline, An Amazing Spider Man,
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you get some you get some hints of what Cleada's
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cassidy is all about, and that he was orphaned in
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that horrible degenerate childhood. It seemed like the writers were
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piling on more and more of this just to hammer
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home if you hadn't gotten it yet, If nobody picked
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up on this subtle writing, carnage is really messed up.
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Carnage is step one. If you're writing a tragic, messed up,
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degenerate childhood of a character, name your child KLEATUSA with
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apologies if you actually know somebody named Kleatus in real life.
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Where southern West Virginia, God at least two or three
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cleats in Walmart than any given time.
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We got. At some point Deathlock is actually freed from
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from his imprisonment or whatever. He's tied up and wired.
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He got beat by a damn billboard sign. Let's just
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god and put that right out there, that greatest.
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Apparently it's Tom Square.
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Time every time he actually gets free by Iron Fist,
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who not too many casual fans will know, but if
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you have a Netflix subscription, you're gonna get to know
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iron Fists pretty soon in the next year or two.
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The shorthand for iron Fist is cross Bruce Lee with
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Bruce Wayne and add a little bit of mystical power
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to that. So it's like millionaire philanthropist who also is
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a martial arts expert super mystical powers. That's just shorthand
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for Iron Fists. I also mentioned I don't I don't
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remember who I mentioned this to, but I wanted to
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if I had remembered to, I wanted to start a
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hashtag on Twitter called fight Carnage fight every time we
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get into a fight scene and each one of these parts.
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But I I did that just a little too late.
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I came up with that little too late.
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All right, I got it out there. I got at
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least one of those out there. I'm glad you touched
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on Iron Fist. There again, we've got a new issue.
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We've got a new hero showing up now. Iron Fist
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has made his presence known, rescuing that fag.
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Hi Morbius three pages from the end of this issue.
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Yeah, he's back right back in the right, back into it.
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Let just figure out where the destruction is and then
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he goes right there. All right, let's get to the
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next issue, which is going to be part nine, a
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Maximum Carnage, and that is Spectacular Spider Man two two.
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I didn't give the issue on the first one. Part
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eight was Spider Man number thirty six adjective less folks.
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All right, so Part nine spectacular. Now we're getting back
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into spectacular, which you clued us into last week. Benjamin
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about how the writers here, as each title we go,
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we're getting a different writer. Jam damettais Is. I've grown
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to appreciate what he's done with the series. You see
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a good bit of that happen in part nine. Our
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battle continues with our heroes and villains. We got Spider Man, Venom,
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Morbius Cloak. By the way, Cloak is still tore up.
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Notice I didn't say Cloak and Dagger because Dagger died
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in our between parts one through seven. Can't remember which part,
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but Dagger died, So Cloak is still tore up and
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really has a heart on for vengeance is probably the
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best way to put it. Black Cat and Firestar, So
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our battle continues. There's a point in this battle where
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Firestar makes a comment to Spider Man about how, dude,
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you're teamed up with some people that are not really
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it doesn't steal too like a very heroic Toad. I
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guess you would say these guys are out for blood.
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Black Cat Cloak and Venom all lean more toward the
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vigilante side, to say, the more hardcore anti hero side,
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because they're out for blood against these guys. They're going
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to stop Carnage in his goons because it doesn't no
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matter what takes, if they have to kill these guys,
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they will. Firestar recognizes that and gets in the Spider
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Man's ear during this During this issue, and we find
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out that Shriek is actually the cause of all this
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madness in New York City. I had no idea the
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power set of Shrieks going into this. We find out
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she also has psychic powers that can influence people and
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they're they're I don't know about driving them mad, but
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she can make them very, very angry. And she's like
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this radiant bomb going off in New York and causing
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all these people to go absolutely nuts. So we find
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out in this issue there's the struggle of killing Carnage
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or not. Firestar has Carnage on the ropes and we
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see if she's just nailing them with her microwave heat,
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and there's I love this page where Spider Man Firestar
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is just all you see is their face. You don't
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see any action Firestar is drilling them after Spider Man
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gave her the go ahead to go ahead and nail
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him with whatever you got and if you got to
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kill him, do it. So Spider Man struggles with that,
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and Venom's on the other side of her, screaming do it,
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do it, kill him, kill him, and you can see
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the intensity in her face and the first set of panels,
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and then it blets up as it goes on. Of course,
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Spider Man realizes what he's doing. He's telling her to
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murder this guy. He immediately start yelling stop, stop, don't
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do it. She stops. Cassidy is laying there a carnage wreck.
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The suit is just dripping off of them. Venom of
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course goes and grabs a hold of Fletus Cassie, and
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he's going to again try to kill him. That's not
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until he tries to get his licks in on Firestar
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for stopping. He gets so pissed at Firestar that he
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grabs her. Venom's going to try and kill Firestar because
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she didn't and kill Cassidy in the first place. He
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actually hits Spider Man and sends him higher than some trees.
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The guy's going at least three or four blocks, just
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to give you an idea of how powerful Venom is.
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He just backhands Spider Man sends him flying well when
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he turns to When he turns to Carnage to try
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and finish him off, Shreek is over there helping him out,
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trying to get him up. They turn around and get
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the upper hand on Venom. Shreek attacks him again. Shreek
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has these sonic powers and the suit is not like sonics.
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She starts nailing them. Carnage joins in and Eddie Brock.
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The Venom suits nowhere to be seen, just just laying
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around them, and they are pounding on him until he's
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not conscious. They set him in the shadow of a
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tree to give you the ominous idea. Dude, I don't
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know what is up with his arms, but it looks bad.
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Eddie brocks out and Carnage and Shreek are off. They
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have him and they leave with Eddie brought Spider Man.
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He's three or four blocks away, coming back trying to
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figure out what happened. Carnegie Shriek are often torture Venom,
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Eddie Brock splash Man, and that is where we end
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Part nine. Our heroes are laying in a heat, Spider
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Man's trying to get up. Somebody shows up at.
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The very end of this issue in a two paved spread,
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which everybody likes, but in a huge two paved spread
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they have to turn on its side. We see Captain America,
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his head framed by the full moon like a halo.
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You can hear the angels sing and Nadian choir music
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in your head as he offers his hand in assistance
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to Spider Man.
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Not only didn't even see the moon, did not even
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see that, But it's just too over the top.
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You gotta frame Calf up, the boys out that he
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is and the savior and all wholesome goodness that we
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all know love. That is Captsin America. But I'm going
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to go a different route here. The fact that Venom
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starts showing his hatred for Spider Man and everybody simply
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because no, they don't have the guts to kill Cornish
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and do what needs to be done, which also it
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shows Spider Man's doesn't but a pussy, I don't think.
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I think it's more of the writing and the inconsistency
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of the writing, and you can see that throughout this
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whole arc. Is you portray Spider Man issue, and then
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they recon it the next issue. He's completely divery. He's
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got a whole different tone. But it comes to light,
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especially in this one, because the Spider Man is a
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teenage growing this one, and he makes a decision, realizes
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what the consequence of the decision is, and this is Oh, no,
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I screwed up.
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Please stop.
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So it's and like I said, it's it's more of
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an attribute to the inconsistency of writing and how none
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of the writers had a flowing function on how the
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story should go.
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I don't completely disagree about the inconsistency and the writing,
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and that the writers doing the story didn't seem like
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they were talking to each other. Everybody, each writer seemed
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like they had their own idea of how they wanted
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the characters to be portrayed, and they all conflicted with
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each other from time to time. What I didn't like
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is the writer and jam demeitary Is specifically in this issue,
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clearly wanted you to side with Spider Man and Fire Star,
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but they're made to look so passive and ineffectual that
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you really can't, which leaves you with know which leaves
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you with no one to side with because Venomin and
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his people are all psychopaths, and part of you wants
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to see them get horrible, bloody revenge. But these are
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not good people, and not much good is going to
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come from them being the only one standing either. And
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something you're gonna be seeing more of in this story,
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which is make character A look better than character B
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by writing character be way out of character or in
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such a way that character A outshines character B, which
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is really contends to be pretty lazy and bad writing.
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You're gonna start seeing that, particularly now that we see
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Captain America show up. To his credit, DeVante seems to
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be the only writer of working on the story who
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seemed even the least bit interested in Shriek as an
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actual character instead of just arm candy for carnage and
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eye candy for the readers. Although by the way she
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had Shreek can amplify her own pain with her sound blast.
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That would be New Power number two, introduced in part
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nine later on the same issue, New Power number three,
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which is transmitting insanity to others. Now, this is what
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I wanted to get into that I did not like,
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and I don't know how you guys feel about this.
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This was disappointing for a number of reasons. The idea
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at first was that the city was going crazy. The
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madness of Carnage was bringing out people and empowering something
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that they already had inside, and was bringing out everybody's
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dark side. Everybody who was already violent, low life was
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coming out of the woodwork and using what Carnis was
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doing as an excuse to go out and hurt people
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and make things worse. That could have been a commentary
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on a number of things, something really interesting. It could
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have been a commentary on how comics were in the nineties,
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the escalation of violence. It could have been a commentary
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on New York City in the nineties, which was very
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violent and not a very nice place for a good
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long while in all the casual violence and murder. But
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they decided not to do that. What it ends up
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being is nobody's responsible for what they're doing. It's all shriek,
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which I really dislike, and I think it's the cop out.
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The story was probably not meant to be any deep
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meditation on really particularly deep issues, but they had an
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opportunity to make it a little bit more than it was,
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and they copped out of it. I don't like that
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at all. It's just disappointing that they decided to just
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wave it away as the super villain has psychic mind
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control insanity powers and that's all it is and there's
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nothing else to see here. Maybe Fire Star nearly killing
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Carnage is actually a decent scene. I like how that
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played out. It might have hit better if Spider Man
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hadn't already immediately backpedaled on his whole no mercy thing
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from part five, if he was relentless up till this point,
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and then he actually sees that an action and Carnage
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is begging for his life and he realizes, oh shit,
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I really can't do this. This is not who I am,
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and then decides to back off after he's pushed so
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far up until this point. But the thing is, he
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went back on it immediately, almost from the moment that
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he did it, so it doesn't it doesn't have as
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much impact as it should. It just comes off like
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Spider Man whining some more, which he's been doing pretty
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consistently up to this point. It took a note like
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Thank God and part ten he actually gets to kick
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some ass again.
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Make sure to check us out tomorrow as Maximum carnage
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continues right here on the Source Material Comics podcast
1
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Syndicated source Material.
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Good evening, everybody. We are on our ways, on our
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00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:15.720
ways to finishing up the other half, the back half
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00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.280
of this epic fourteen parts saga Tonight source Material is
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00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:26.239
covering parts eight through fourteen, and we are going to
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have ourselves ball. Maybe it's going to feel competitive, but
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of course not steering this ship alone. I have a
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00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:41.399
good friend of ours, the Ratlich and Broadcasting Network, is
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00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:44.759
so appreciative to have this person along to help us
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with some of the most beautiful visuals that have been
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given to our flagship show, The Long Road to Ruin
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00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:57.759
and the creator of Soul Exodus. And my favorite part
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is sketchbook Saturday Epic Benjamin J. Cologne, how do you.
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Do, sir?
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Evening? I have booze this week, just in case.
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Now we're waiting for Jason Teasley who said he will
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be joining us here. Probably I just told him silence Skype,
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so it'll probably be a couple of minutes. Well, Teasley
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has joined us. Jason Teasley, how do you do, sir?
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Hey, look Bills.
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Oh, I'm half asleep and extremely tired.
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Okay, a better question, will you be awake? I know
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you said you got an hour. Can you handle an hour?
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I hope these work is a little bit of crying
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and testing my podcasting abilities.
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Once you get into later parts of this story, I
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may do some yelling, so that may keep.
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You awake, because who angry.
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We're picking up with issue eight. Obviously the cover you're
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looking at the cover, we got some beautiful, absolutely stunning
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Tom Lyle artwork. If you can get a hold of this.
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Page you want, But we see Venom.
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With the sonic gun blasting carnage, Benjamin, why don't you
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go ahead and give us your take on this cover,
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just real quick. You need to spend a minute if
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you want, just talking about what the heck's going on
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in this cover.
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Tom Lyle really loves drawing leaning towers, doesn't he.
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I don't know what dimension we're in here where stuff
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is just or mind you, Venom is that is awesome.
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He could just stand like he's perfectly standing on the
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ground on the side of a building. At least I
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think that's what's going on here. I can't tell, dude, I.
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Have no idea.
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Once again, the characters were drawn first and the background
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was drawn much later.
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But the gist of issue eight or part eight, our
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group of superheroes pretty much come together to try and
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lure a trap for Carnage, and they enlist Jay Jonah
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jameson of the Daily Bugle to put out like an
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article or a print of paper to get Carnage to
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come back to the asylum that he's from. Of course,
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Carnage falls for he goes back there with no problem
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and most likely he knows what's going on. They go
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back to the orphanage. We get a little bit of
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an origin story. Carnage talks about his past and how
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screwed up he was. Now our heroes get to jump
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on the villains here and we got a big fight.
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Morbius was told to hit the bricks. I don't know
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if his last year the issue before, but he gets
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back into the fight. Our heroes have the weapons and
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they're going to use them against Carnage. So we got
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the Sonic Gun, which is actually being handled by Venom.
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We have fire Star who's lasting Carnage with heat. Our
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heroes pretty much are winning in this battle and fire
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Stars just unrelenting and nailing him in the mb A
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suit is just dripping off of Cassidy. Venom is about
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to kill Carnage Spider Man jumps in and stops him,
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and in the midst of that, Shrike is able to
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go over there. If we all remember in the last
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podcast we talked about Carnage pretty much pimp slap Shriek.
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At one point, well Strake gets her revenge and just
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max and scratches the crap out of his face and
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he starts bleeding. What we established in the beginning of
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this series was about how the symbia was in his blood,
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and as soon as the blood starts dripping from his face,
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the Symbia then immediately takes over and Carnage, as beaten
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as he looked, gets right back up. And of course
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at the end he said, Carnage never dies. They've used
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all the weapons, and they thought they had this guy
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beat and it looked like they did, and he gets
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right back up. Now. One of the other things I
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should mention, there's a little bit of side story about
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how the rest of New York is practically going to
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eat everybody's going crazy. Some people have still got their
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wits about him, and there's a little bit of the
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fight flash. Thompson ends up showing up and stopping some
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ne'er do wells from doing any harm to I think
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it was May and Pete's dad. What's his dad's name again? There,
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Benjamin Richard, we'll call him here and Moulton Man shows up,
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But anyway, chaos ensues amongst New York so easily. What
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do you guys say about part eight here? Anything stick
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out to you? Did you enjoy the little recap of
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Carnage's origin.
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Issue A was? I loved the way that they showed
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the little backstory for Carnage and how he just got
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shaped and twisted into the psychopath that he was in
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the orphan each and justified why that he kind of
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went down the dark paths that he did. Of course,
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who can't side with the chaotic psychopath.
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There's a guy sitting there whipping him. If this is
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a young kid, obviously he's bullied. What we're getting a
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good shot of here is how he was treated as
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a young kid. And this actually will definitely come into
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play our last issue or second last issue, just to
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give you a good idea of the reason behind the man.
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Yeah, you see the guy with the Indiana Jones whip,
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and he's got like two or three belts there. It
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looks like a kindo stick a paddle like a barbed
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wire chair.
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Sandman.
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Yeah, it's like he's straight out of the ECW Hall
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of Fame match or something. And the Carnegie says that
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if they was way ahead of their time for the
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concept of tough love because of the beatings they received,
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anybody at that young age is going to get like
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severely beating and just tortures and stuff, is actually not
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going to be the most sociable and well adapted person
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growing up due to the beatings. So you can actually
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it gives you a little bit of sympathy for Carnage,
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which is surprising because in any carnage story to this
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point you don't really see him as a sympathetic character.
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But they're riding him with just these few panels as him,
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you want to feel sorry for him due to the
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abuse the separate in the Orphanage, Benjamin.
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What do you have to add here?
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Man?
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First start is before the story proper even opens, The
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inside front cover of this individual comic has an add
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for the Super Mario Brothers movie, which should give you
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a clue. That's got to be foreshadowing, doesn't it. Aside
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from that, these are little inconsistency things that I was
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talking about that. Probably only I get because I'm OCD
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like that. If you'll recall, in part two of Maximum Carnage,
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Carnage destroyed most of the sign at the top of
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the Daily Bugle building until only the word bug was left.
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Was supposed to be a message to Spider Man and
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Venom that he was back and get roughed up Jamison.
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Either Jamison had some expert quick repairs ordered to his
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sign despite New York City being locked up tight due
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to a citywide murdering spree by a family of homicidal freaks,
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or more likely the artists and editors dropped the ball.
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You decide, him and his Jamison and his strangely lopsided
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eyebrows in this first page. Once you see that, you'll
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never be able to unsee it.
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It's just caterpillars on his face.
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They picked up a little bit on the thread that
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was left behind in part five of the City Escalating
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in Violence. Yeah, you mentioned that that's going to keep
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coming into play. There's something about that that I'm going
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to have to talk about pretty soon. That annoyed me,
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But for now it's going along pretty nicely. Nice cameos
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by molten Man and Flash Thompson. The other thing is
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the heroes put a front page headline in the paper
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addressing for Carnage to come home to the orphanage he
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grew up in for some reason, and he does it.
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Yeah.
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Granted, these people are insane and have superpowers, but no
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one among them stopped to think that this might be
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a trap.
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I'm going with I'll give him the benefit of the
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doubts and say that he knew and he just wanted
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to get into another fight, because we see that happened.
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I half expected, like Admiral Agbar from Return of the
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Jedi to be on the next page off to one
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side about to say it.
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I'm just curious how they printed out. So when got
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that in the paper so quick and got it onto
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the streets.
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Yeah, and when we look at this whole series again,
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I think we're only talking about like two nights can
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be very long unless there's some time in here, like
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they open up. I assume it's daytime and the bugle
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must be really morning.
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In the In the first Carnate storyline, An Amazing Spider Man,
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you get some you get some hints of what Cleada's
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cassidy is all about, and that he was orphaned in
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that horrible degenerate childhood. It seemed like the writers were
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piling on more and more of this just to hammer
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home if you hadn't gotten it yet, If nobody picked
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up on this subtle writing, carnage is really messed up.
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Carnage is step one. If you're writing a tragic, messed up,
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degenerate childhood of a character, name your child KLEATUSA with
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apologies if you actually know somebody named Kleatus in real life.
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Where southern West Virginia, God at least two or three
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cleats in Walmart than any given time.
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We got. At some point Deathlock is actually freed from
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from his imprisonment or whatever. He's tied up and wired.
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He got beat by a damn billboard sign. Let's just
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god and put that right out there, that greatest.
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Apparently it's Tom Square.
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Time every time he actually gets free by Iron Fist,
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who not too many casual fans will know, but if
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you have a Netflix subscription, you're gonna get to know
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iron Fists pretty soon in the next year or two.
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The shorthand for iron Fist is cross Bruce Lee with
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Bruce Wayne and add a little bit of mystical power
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to that. So it's like millionaire philanthropist who also is
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a martial arts expert super mystical powers. That's just shorthand
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for Iron Fists. I also mentioned I don't I don't
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remember who I mentioned this to, but I wanted to
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if I had remembered to, I wanted to start a
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hashtag on Twitter called fight Carnage fight every time we
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get into a fight scene and each one of these parts.
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But I I did that just a little too late.
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I came up with that little too late.
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All right, I got it out there. I got at
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least one of those out there. I'm glad you touched
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on Iron Fist. There again, we've got a new issue.
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We've got a new hero showing up now. Iron Fist
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has made his presence known, rescuing that fag.
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Hi Morbius three pages from the end of this issue.
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Yeah, he's back right back in the right, back into it.
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Let just figure out where the destruction is and then
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he goes right there. All right, let's get to the
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next issue, which is going to be part nine, a
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Maximum Carnage, and that is Spectacular Spider Man two two.
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I didn't give the issue on the first one. Part
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eight was Spider Man number thirty six adjective less folks.
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All right, so Part nine spectacular. Now we're getting back
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into spectacular, which you clued us into last week. Benjamin
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about how the writers here, as each title we go,
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we're getting a different writer. Jam damettais Is. I've grown
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to appreciate what he's done with the series. You see
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a good bit of that happen in part nine. Our
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battle continues with our heroes and villains. We got Spider Man, Venom,
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Morbius Cloak. By the way, Cloak is still tore up.
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Notice I didn't say Cloak and Dagger because Dagger died
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in our between parts one through seven. Can't remember which part,
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but Dagger died, So Cloak is still tore up and
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really has a heart on for vengeance is probably the
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best way to put it. Black Cat and Firestar, So
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our battle continues. There's a point in this battle where
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Firestar makes a comment to Spider Man about how, dude,
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you're teamed up with some people that are not really
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it doesn't steal too like a very heroic Toad. I
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guess you would say these guys are out for blood.
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Black Cat Cloak and Venom all lean more toward the
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vigilante side, to say, the more hardcore anti hero side,
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because they're out for blood against these guys. They're going
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to stop Carnage in his goons because it doesn't no
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matter what takes, if they have to kill these guys,
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they will. Firestar recognizes that and gets in the Spider
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Man's ear during this During this issue, and we find
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out that Shriek is actually the cause of all this
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madness in New York City. I had no idea the
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power set of Shrieks going into this. We find out
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she also has psychic powers that can influence people and
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they're they're I don't know about driving them mad, but
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she can make them very, very angry. And she's like
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this radiant bomb going off in New York and causing
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all these people to go absolutely nuts. So we find
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out in this issue there's the struggle of killing Carnage
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or not. Firestar has Carnage on the ropes and we
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see if she's just nailing them with her microwave heat,
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and there's I love this page where Spider Man Firestar
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is just all you see is their face. You don't
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see any action Firestar is drilling them after Spider Man
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gave her the go ahead to go ahead and nail
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him with whatever you got and if you got to
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kill him, do it. So Spider Man struggles with that,
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and Venom's on the other side of her, screaming do it,
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do it, kill him, kill him, and you can see
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the intensity in her face and the first set of panels,
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and then it blets up as it goes on. Of course,
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Spider Man realizes what he's doing. He's telling her to
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murder this guy. He immediately start yelling stop, stop, don't
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do it. She stops. Cassidy is laying there a carnage wreck.
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The suit is just dripping off of them. Venom of
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course goes and grabs a hold of Fletus Cassie, and
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he's going to again try to kill him. That's not
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until he tries to get his licks in on Firestar
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for stopping. He gets so pissed at Firestar that he
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grabs her. Venom's going to try and kill Firestar because
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she didn't and kill Cassidy in the first place. He
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actually hits Spider Man and sends him higher than some trees.
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The guy's going at least three or four blocks, just
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to give you an idea of how powerful Venom is.
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He just backhands Spider Man sends him flying well when
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he turns to When he turns to Carnage to try
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and finish him off, Shreek is over there helping him out,
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trying to get him up. They turn around and get
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the upper hand on Venom. Shreek attacks him again. Shreek
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has these sonic powers and the suit is not like sonics.
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She starts nailing them. Carnage joins in and Eddie Brock.
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The Venom suits nowhere to be seen, just just laying
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around them, and they are pounding on him until he's
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not conscious. They set him in the shadow of a
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tree to give you the ominous idea. Dude, I don't
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know what is up with his arms, but it looks bad.
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Eddie brocks out and Carnage and Shreek are off. They
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have him and they leave with Eddie brought Spider Man.
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He's three or four blocks away, coming back trying to
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figure out what happened. Carnegie Shriek are often torture Venom,
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Eddie Brock splash Man, and that is where we end
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Part nine. Our heroes are laying in a heat, Spider
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Man's trying to get up. Somebody shows up at.
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The very end of this issue in a two paved spread,
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which everybody likes, but in a huge two paved spread
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they have to turn on its side. We see Captain America,
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his head framed by the full moon like a halo.
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You can hear the angels sing and Nadian choir music
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in your head as he offers his hand in assistance
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to Spider Man.
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Not only didn't even see the moon, did not even
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see that, But it's just too over the top.
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You gotta frame Calf up, the boys out that he
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is and the savior and all wholesome goodness that we
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all know love. That is Captsin America. But I'm going
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to go a different route here. The fact that Venom
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starts showing his hatred for Spider Man and everybody simply
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because no, they don't have the guts to kill Cornish
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and do what needs to be done, which also it
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shows Spider Man's doesn't but a pussy, I don't think.
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I think it's more of the writing and the inconsistency
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of the writing, and you can see that throughout this
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whole arc. Is you portray Spider Man issue, and then
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they recon it the next issue. He's completely divery. He's
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got a whole different tone. But it comes to light,
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especially in this one, because the Spider Man is a
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teenage growing this one, and he makes a decision, realizes
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what the consequence of the decision is, and this is Oh, no,
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I screwed up.
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Please stop.
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So it's and like I said, it's it's more of
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an attribute to the inconsistency of writing and how none
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of the writers had a flowing function on how the
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story should go.
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I don't completely disagree about the inconsistency and the writing,
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and that the writers doing the story didn't seem like
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they were talking to each other. Everybody, each writer seemed
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like they had their own idea of how they wanted
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the characters to be portrayed, and they all conflicted with
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each other from time to time. What I didn't like
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is the writer and jam demeitary Is specifically in this issue,
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clearly wanted you to side with Spider Man and Fire Star,
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but they're made to look so passive and ineffectual that
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you really can't, which leaves you with know which leaves
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you with no one to side with because Venomin and
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his people are all psychopaths, and part of you wants
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to see them get horrible, bloody revenge. But these are
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not good people, and not much good is going to
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come from them being the only one standing either. And
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something you're gonna be seeing more of in this story,
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which is make character A look better than character B
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by writing character be way out of character or in
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such a way that character A outshines character B, which
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is really contends to be pretty lazy and bad writing.
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You're gonna start seeing that, particularly now that we see
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Captain America show up. To his credit, DeVante seems to
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be the only writer of working on the story who
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seemed even the least bit interested in Shriek as an
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actual character instead of just arm candy for carnage and
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eye candy for the readers. Although by the way she
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had Shreek can amplify her own pain with her sound blast.
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That would be New Power number two, introduced in part
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nine later on the same issue, New Power number three,
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which is transmitting insanity to others. Now, this is what
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I wanted to get into that I did not like,
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and I don't know how you guys feel about this.
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This was disappointing for a number of reasons. The idea
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at first was that the city was going crazy. The
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madness of Carnage was bringing out people and empowering something
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that they already had inside, and was bringing out everybody's
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dark side. Everybody who was already violent, low life was
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coming out of the woodwork and using what Carnis was
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doing as an excuse to go out and hurt people
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and make things worse. That could have been a commentary
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on a number of things, something really interesting. It could
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have been a commentary on how comics were in the nineties,
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the escalation of violence. It could have been a commentary
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on New York City in the nineties, which was very
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violent and not a very nice place for a good
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long while in all the casual violence and murder. But
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they decided not to do that. What it ends up
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being is nobody's responsible for what they're doing. It's all shriek,
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which I really dislike, and I think it's the cop out.
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The story was probably not meant to be any deep
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meditation on really particularly deep issues, but they had an
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opportunity to make it a little bit more than it was,
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and they copped out of it. I don't like that
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at all. It's just disappointing that they decided to just
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wave it away as the super villain has psychic mind
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control insanity powers and that's all it is and there's
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nothing else to see here. Maybe Fire Star nearly killing
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Carnage is actually a decent scene. I like how that
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played out. It might have hit better if Spider Man
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hadn't already immediately backpedaled on his whole no mercy thing
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from part five, if he was relentless up till this point,
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and then he actually sees that an action and Carnage
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is begging for his life and he realizes, oh shit,
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I really can't do this. This is not who I am,
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and then decides to back off after he's pushed so
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far up until this point. But the thing is, he
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went back on it immediately, almost from the moment that
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he did it, so it doesn't it doesn't have as
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much impact as it should. It just comes off like
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Spider Man whining some more, which he's been doing pretty
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consistently up to this point. It took a note like
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Thank God and part ten he actually gets to kick
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some ass again.
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Make sure to check us out tomorrow as Maximum carnage
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continues right here on the Source Material Comics podcast
