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This file was generated by Descript
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Just sitting, just sit at the
bank, have a large body of water,
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finding yourself, um, the threshold
imagining where you want to take this.
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How far out, how deep,
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what to share.
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And in this moment, I simply
invite you to go as deep in the
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water, deep in the subject matter.
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And as far out as you
feel safe and comfortable,
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no.
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The thing when you hit your
edge, when you feel resistance,
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That's okay.
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Take a moment now to simply
take stock in your surroundings,
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breathing in, breathing out
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and at your pace at your
rate, when you're ready.
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Hi, it's Ryan.
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Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
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invite my guests to share stories.
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About their psychedelic experiences.
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We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction
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and severe depression.
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To finding wholeness
and spiritual emergence.
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Today's podcast.
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You're going to hear
from one of my guests.
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Lyla.
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Who speaks to you about
different compounds MTMA effects
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of psilocybin and ketamine.
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And her new found
appreciation for self-love.
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Self-empowerment.
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And all things.
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Finding healing in death.
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Lyla.
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How are you feeling coming in relaxed?
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I love that.
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Well, we're talking all
things psychedelic today.
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Tell me a little bit about what
kind of percolates up when you feel,
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how deep you can go and how far
out you can go with psychedelics.
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What percolates for me?
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Um, for me this, um, when you say
that I, I definitely, go to this space
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of understanding myself as a person
who has struggled with that going
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deeper or more expansive and have
had kind of a more controlled life.
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And so for me, that's meant, Keeping
things out instead of letting things in.
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And so for me, psychedelic work
has led me to a space of letting,
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letting myself expand and contract,
but expand into these spaces that,
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that weren't available to me before.
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And so.
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This has opened up a lot of opportunities
for me in my own life, um, with
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relationships, but within myself too,
it sounds as if, when you say that
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I really, really connect with the
idea of what, what our masks are,
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what our visions are, what we see
and what we want people to see in us.
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Even talking about psychedelics.
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It's like.
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That's a pretty loaded subject
matter and to find it so healing.
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How do you make sense of that,
that relationship of something
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so sacred and private to you and
knowing it's so important to you?
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What, what do you do with that path?
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Yeah, there's lots of different
ways of looking at that question.
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And for me, I guess the one that
comes up right away has to do with.
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You know, finding someone for me, you
know, finding a guide, which I did, who
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I can have a relationship with that's
built on trust and then being able
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to show up within that trust and be
open to the medicine I'm working with.
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Not just me, but with the guide too.
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So I think.
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For me, this medicine has opened up
a lot of space inside of myself that
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that's not just about trust, but
that's about discernment too.
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And that's been a word that I've
been thinking about this last week.
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Being able to discern, um,
relationships around me and what they
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do for me and being able to sort of
have this, uh, self-awareness of.
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Wanting to be in relationships
and knowing, you know, knowing
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how to say, I don't want to be
in a relationship or knowing how
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to say I do want to be relatable.
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Um, yeah, I think I could go lots
of different places with that.
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Oh my goodness.
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When you say that, is there
an emotion that comes up?
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I see, like this just stark vulnerability
to say, I want to be in relationships,
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be it with psychedelics or be it
with a community or be it with a
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certain person, but not ignoring the.
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You need to have going into psychedelic
work, talking with a person,
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engaging in activities with others.
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How do you emotionally
connect to that storyline?
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How, what does discernment look to you?
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For me, it just looks, uh, and it
feels like, um, pretty like radical
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compassion for myself and, and, um, and
feeling proud of myself, like owning.
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This space of me and taking up
space and allowing other people into
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that space, instead of just having
people in the space or thinking that
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I'm not worthy of taking up space.
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So that's kind of the way
that it feels to me when.
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When I think about it.
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Have you had the experience?
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I know I've worked with you
as an integration therapist.
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Has there been an experience where
you've recognized I deserve to be at this
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place and deserving such a loaded term.
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I understand, but you say
worthy of, or being seen.
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I can only imagine.
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Being the opposite of doing
something for others, but
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actually receiving from something.
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Have you had experiences
that have alluded to that?
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I have, I've had, um, I've had
a number of experiences where
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I've had, uh, sort of touched on
that in my own psychedelic work.
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Um, I would say, you know, It's
interesting how all of these
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medicines work differently for me.
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Um, for me, you know, psilocybin has
been a medicine that has opened me up
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to the understanding, the possibility of
this deeper connection to all things and
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allowed me to sort of explore the space
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and a different realm of.
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Deep connection and belongingness.
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And that word comes up a lot for
me in my work with psychedelic
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medicine and, um, yeah.
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And you know, and I can go into
each of them medicines that
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feel really differently to me
to affect kind of make sense.
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Yeah.
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When you say that out loud, have
you found, I think guideposts or.
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Maybe themes within your work group,
because I've heard from you this
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belonging, this idea that psilocybin has
created something in you that understands
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more universal, more collective.
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Are you saying that there's been
other intimate experiences that
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you've found more knowing in yourself?
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We would call that like your
biographical story or you're hearing now?
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Yeah.
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I've worked with MBMA before I've
worked with ketamine and psilocybin.
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And, um, I think with MTMA
I found a space that opened.
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That I didn't understand initially.
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And I've come to learn.
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And that's really important too, is that
that's not just within the medicine.
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Um, but it's, it's the integration
part where I really do the deep
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work of understanding what happened
and how to move that into my space.
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But with the MTMA, there were a lot of
images and a lot of emotions, um, That
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I got to, and a lot of, uh, calling
for self-compassion and finding the
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space of being able to see, not just
myself, but other people in my life
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as, um, as all of us doing our best.
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Uh, even though that may have
felt really complicated and, um,
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uncertain and scary and painful and.
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But, but that was really helpful
for me within the space of MBMA.
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And, um, I watch you go somewhere when you
say that, I hear you go somewhere, when
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you say that, and I'm wondering what's the
emotion arising, there feels as if mixed
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emotions, but also an homage in the sense.
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Yeah, I think that feels to me, uh, like.
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The deepest sense of, um,
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what I, what I, what I wanted in my
life, which was this belongingness
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and connection kind of like
mixed up with just this radical
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self acceptance and compassion.
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And, um, that's something
that, uh, that has, since that.
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My MTMA experiences has sort of
built on, on itself and come to
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a space that's really different.
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And, um, maybe more spiritual, uh,
and an, in an emotion too, has a
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lot of spirituality and the way
that it feels to me, I love it.
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I really love it.
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And thank you for the vulnerability.
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I'm hearing a deep sense of like,
ah, to that I can be in Berlin.
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I can be in community, but I also
beforehand need to trust myself and
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love myself and without getting to new
age, you know, MDME does that to a lot
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of people, but it's a whole different
story when you actually feel it.
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It doesn't it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's a whole different story at something.
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And I think this is important
for me, something that I
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really realized is that I feel.
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I don't think we know
how to do these things.
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If no one teaches us, if we don't
experience it, like tell me more
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and tell me more, go into that.
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Please.
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Like deep acceptance or
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the way that I think best describes
it as maybe the way that one feels
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about their child when they're born,
that, you know, in a healthy way, when
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we look at our children and we think.
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We shower this deep emotion on them of
like just, you are the most perfect thing.
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You are the most radical thing.
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You're the most beautiful accept you, you
know, it's this unconditional beautiful
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blindness and connection and love.
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I think that when that doesn't happen
for people, when they don't feel that,
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or when things happen in people's lives,
where they lose trust or they lose.
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This understanding of that or that,
or that didn't even exist in the
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first place that that can happen.
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I know too.
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And that, that is for me, how, how I
sort of experienced my life is that
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this medicine actually allows us to
feel what it feels like to feel loved
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or to feel beloved, beloved, you know,
to feel, um, Just this deep acceptance.
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And, um, and that really is not again,
it's, you know, I've been in therapy a
00:13:00.395 --> 00:13:05.225
long time in my life, and that's nothing
that I could have ever come up with.
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Even if I would have talked for
the next 50 years of my life.
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I don't think that I could
have created that sensation in
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my own body or learned that.
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And so this medicine for me,
Teachers my body that it teaches it.
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This is how this feels.
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And that's something that I'm incredibly
in awe of as you, as you just said too,
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and really grateful for, I love it.
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Speak to me a little bit about the
journey and how you intuitively know
00:13:39.235 --> 00:13:41.665
that you're awakening and reconnecting.
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I should say, because
I do believe for you.
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It's a reconnecting of
something you already know.
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What is next?
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What's on the horizon.
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And how do you discern in the
psychedelic world today for you?
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Well, I just had a, an experience
with a guide who I trust deeply,
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um, with psilocybin that was, um,
something just completely, uh,
00:14:10.825 --> 00:14:13.265
amazing to me and life changing.
00:14:13.985 --> 00:14:16.535
And perhaps was the, um, truly.
00:14:18.115 --> 00:14:28.555
The first time that I allowed myself
to, or learned how to, um, let parts of,
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and this is maybe too harsh of a word,
but parts of me, parts of my way die.
00:14:36.205 --> 00:14:38.695
And that, that was just incredible.
00:14:38.815 --> 00:14:43.405
It was as though I was
able to move into a space.
00:14:47.175 --> 00:14:52.245
That I didn't understand at all
before that it couldn't get to even,
00:14:52.395 --> 00:14:55.545
even with this self love and all
the compassionate couldn't go to
00:14:55.545 --> 00:14:58.575
the space and it got to the space.
00:15:01.355 --> 00:15:07.595
And then I felt it for the first time,
I actually was able to feel into all of
00:15:07.925 --> 00:15:11.815
the feelings that went along with, you
know, for me, it was a lot of pain and.
00:15:12.550 --> 00:15:19.960
But it was also ecstasy and exhilaration
and just maybe like a hundred different
00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:26.230
feelings I could go on and on all of them
happened and I felt them and I was able
00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:35.650
to, um, roll from that space, uh, into
a, sort of a death of that moment when
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I did need to move into someone else.
00:15:38.170 --> 00:15:41.380
When I was little, when I had to set my.
00:15:42.145 --> 00:15:47.005
Myself aside, uh, in order to sort of
survive in the setting that I was in.
00:15:47.875 --> 00:15:52.765
And so I, um, you know, I grew up
in, and I did my life in a certain
00:15:52.765 --> 00:15:57.295
way, but in this experience, I was
able to go to that space and feel
00:15:57.295 --> 00:15:58.915
it again and actually allow it.
00:15:59.605 --> 00:16:06.955
And then that part of me also, I
was compassionate and love died
00:16:06.955 --> 00:16:09.565
in a beautiful way and the most
beautiful and spiritual way.
00:16:10.510 --> 00:16:19.360
And to the space where I was able
to, um, uh, just be in this, in
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.200
this realm, in this world and in
this body, which was new for me.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.310
And so that was beautiful.
00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:29.590
And after that experience and you
and I processed and integrated that
00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:31.060
experience, and I'm really appreciative.
00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:36.265
And after that, Um, I, you know, I
was talking to my guide and maybe
00:16:36.265 --> 00:16:42.535
bringing up the possibility of doing
a little more work with MDME, um,
00:16:43.105 --> 00:16:50.255
to move into another space of, um,
understanding of that new newness, that
00:16:50.515 --> 00:16:56.265
new person, um, the defense mechanisms
not needing or serving you anymore.
00:16:56.325 --> 00:16:57.315
And exactly.
00:16:58.285 --> 00:17:01.825
And the humility that I've heard from
you too, around the idea of what a
00:17:01.825 --> 00:17:03.805
conscious death process looks like.
00:17:03.805 --> 00:17:08.185
Sounds like that was part of the
experience, your opportunity to really
00:17:08.575 --> 00:17:16.225
kind of design your own death and all
the challenges, both good dark and.
00:17:17.695 --> 00:17:22.075
As you said, full of ecstasy and
releasing and surrendering, what
00:17:22.075 --> 00:17:24.355
does it mean to you to surrender it?
00:17:24.385 --> 00:17:27.595
I've heard a lot of that
tonight in our conversations.
00:17:27.595 --> 00:17:34.405
This idea of surrendering for
me, it's, it's interesting.
00:17:34.495 --> 00:17:37.495
And my last experience I had
that deep surrender where I
00:17:37.495 --> 00:17:41.785
just, um, it's not a giving up.
00:17:41.785 --> 00:17:44.095
It didn't feel like a
giving up on any level.
00:17:44.095 --> 00:17:45.115
It felt like a.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:52.630
It felt like a deep acceptance
of, and willingness to
00:17:56.190 --> 00:18:05.920
just receive and, um, fall into and
become part of, there was nothing
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:13.220
about it that felt, um, Like a sever
or a cut or anything like that.
00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:15.770
It just felt beautiful,
like an integration.
00:18:15.860 --> 00:18:18.260
And I know he's talked
to me about that before.
00:18:18.830 --> 00:18:20.060
It's a little bit right.
00:18:21.050 --> 00:18:26.330
Some wholeness in integrating and
the full circle of life and death.
00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:28.370
No honor.
00:18:29.270 --> 00:18:34.680
Was there a sense that you were
exonerated the story of your childhood?
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.100
Was there a sense that you came
to more clarity around what.
00:18:39.565 --> 00:18:45.805
And see that there's beauty in
who you are and who you've become.
00:18:46.845 --> 00:18:47.265
Yeah.
00:18:47.295 --> 00:18:50.565
That was, um, very
deeply experienced this.
00:18:52.635 --> 00:18:58.665
Uh, this is, uh, I sometimes just
say things that mean something to
00:18:58.665 --> 00:19:06.065
me, but finding my place at the
table became, um, Very important
00:19:06.065 --> 00:19:07.625
in that moment where I found it.
00:19:08.075 --> 00:19:13.715
And then it felt very, um, accepted into
this sort of like, not just the human,
00:19:13.715 --> 00:19:20.585
but into the, you know, to the world, into
the universe of being a part of all things
00:19:20.615 --> 00:19:27.515
and mattering, you know, that where before
it was hard for me to find what mattered
00:19:27.545 --> 00:19:30.775
or that I had something to offer, I felt.
00:19:34.780 --> 00:19:37.360
I had a lot to offer and
I do have a lot to offer.
00:19:37.540 --> 00:19:42.760
And then, um, yeah, yeah, complicated.
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.940
It is complicated, which leads me
to dive into the rabbit hole of it's
00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:51.100
definitely not a one pill wonder.
00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:53.170
It's not a one and done.
00:19:53.590 --> 00:19:55.120
Can you elaborate to me?
00:19:55.300 --> 00:19:55.810
Right.
00:19:55.810 --> 00:19:56.830
Not even a label.
00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.460
And this is a laughing matter
because it's also, what's being
00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:01.900
kind of promoted in the world.
00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:08.590
There's this radical new experience
that provides this miraculous thing of
00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:15.910
eradicating suicidal depression or coming
to self-love or exonerating traumas.
00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:21.060
And what would you say your
personal story has become.
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:25.720
In relationship to the psychedelic
world, the psychedelic medicines
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.450
and the journey ahead for you.
00:20:30.070 --> 00:20:34.300
I think that it's interesting that
concept of taking a pill and making
00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:38.860
everything better, which I know we
want a quick answer for everything.
00:20:38.860 --> 00:20:41.620
I know people want to feel better
right away and they want to,
00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:49.540
they want to be done with things
or have things go away and.
00:20:51.895 --> 00:20:57.895
I think that I think that, that,
that can't be in our world.
00:20:57.895 --> 00:20:59.965
That there's the acceptance.
00:20:59.965 --> 00:21:05.855
That can be that there's the
deeper understanding of our
00:21:05.855 --> 00:21:09.455
situation, that there's the
forgiveness and the compassion.
00:21:09.455 --> 00:21:12.035
And that healing is really about that.
00:21:12.875 --> 00:21:19.565
It's not about making things go away
or one time, and everything's also.
00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:28.240
It's about, hopefully for me,
it's about being able to expand on
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.980
what I know and what I've learned.
00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:39.910
It's about finding the space to grow
after the process, you know, and
00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:42.940
maybe that takes a year in between.
00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:46.330
Maybe I, maybe I need a year
to integrate everything.
00:21:47.545 --> 00:21:49.705
Maybe I need two years,
maybe I need a month.
00:21:49.735 --> 00:21:53.635
I don't know, but I do
know life is not static.
00:21:53.665 --> 00:21:57.505
We're always changing
and growing and learning.
00:21:58.345 --> 00:22:09.395
And I think this medicine, there's a lot
of medicines in the psychedelic realm.
00:22:10.115 --> 00:22:16.175
Um, and these medicines, um,
have different properties and.
00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:23.470
We have different relationships
with them and just like us, they
00:22:23.470 --> 00:22:25.480
change, they change, they change us.
00:22:25.540 --> 00:22:26.740
We change within them.
00:22:27.100 --> 00:22:33.010
There's nothing static or one time
only about any of it at night.
00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:39.310
You know, I feel like I'm kind of
rambling, but what my point is, it's never
00:22:39.310 --> 00:22:42.070
just one thing it's never just once and.
00:22:43.495 --> 00:22:48.205
But can you have a wonderful
psychedelic experience and have
00:22:48.205 --> 00:22:50.695
that happen and grow deeply?
00:22:50.785 --> 00:22:51.355
Oh my God.
00:22:51.355 --> 00:22:52.705
Yeah, totally.
00:22:53.305 --> 00:22:53.695
You know?
00:22:54.625 --> 00:22:55.375
Absolutely.
00:22:55.405 --> 00:22:59.065
And it's not, it's not
just that one thing either.
00:22:59.995 --> 00:23:04.585
It's all the stuff that comes after
it and how you make sense of that
00:23:04.585 --> 00:23:09.235
and how you move your body into
that and your life into that space.
00:23:09.235 --> 00:23:09.625
You know?
00:23:09.955 --> 00:23:16.165
So yeah, it was dumb, so much wisdom in
that it's almost alarming to know because
00:23:16.165 --> 00:23:21.535
it kind of keeps people at bay and it also
brings people to the gates quite quicker.
00:23:21.535 --> 00:23:22.555
They're like, what?
00:23:23.825 --> 00:23:28.925
And I often say, you know, psychedelics
gives you what you need, not
00:23:28.925 --> 00:23:34.025
necessarily what you want, which
then can open up Pandora's box for
00:23:34.055 --> 00:23:36.395
endless and endless opportunities.
00:23:36.635 --> 00:23:40.535
And there's also, as you said, so
eloquently a time to set it down
00:23:40.925 --> 00:23:42.755
at time to practically integrate.
00:23:42.755 --> 00:23:47.825
It was so Brighty with clarity,
with attention to details.
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.140
What are you walking away with today?
00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:57.390
What's been not just in this conversation,
but your journey integrating this work,
00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:02.190
what what's landing for you today and what
are you carrying with so much sacredness
00:24:08.870 --> 00:24:18.140
I'm walking away with a deep sense
of gratitude for what I have.
00:24:19.555 --> 00:24:24.475
Found in what I've been allowed to see
in my own self and around me too, I'm
00:24:24.475 --> 00:24:36.115
walking away knowing that I, um, that
I have more, more, I don't want to
00:24:36.115 --> 00:24:42.775
call it work more integration, more,
um, places to see and journeys to take
00:24:43.465 --> 00:24:47.855
and that, um, and then I'm hoping.
00:24:48.820 --> 00:24:51.820
And this is more of a global
thing about psychedelic medicine.
00:24:51.820 --> 00:24:57.850
I'm hoping that as a, as a community,
as a world, that we're able to
00:24:58.780 --> 00:25:03.040
see this as a spiritual, emotional
00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:12.030
way of growing and not a instant Kira.
00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:15.600
And that that's what life is that we're,
it's a journey that we're on all of us
00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.315
and that, you know, This takes work.
00:25:19.315 --> 00:25:21.805
It's not a, and not
everything is beautiful.
00:25:22.105 --> 00:25:25.735
We're not all, it's not
all beauty out there.
00:25:25.825 --> 00:25:27.565
It's, it's complicated.
00:25:27.565 --> 00:25:36.705
It's, it's the nuance of, and the
complicated nature of all of us.
00:25:37.125 --> 00:25:42.825
And so how could we expect anything
other than that from a Madison, um, to,
00:25:43.005 --> 00:25:49.435
and so, you know, it's a journey and
it's a, um, It's an opening to change.
00:25:49.495 --> 00:25:57.995
And, um, for me, it's just been a
wonderful, um, wonderful addition to my
00:25:57.995 --> 00:26:06.425
life, my spiritual life and my sense of
self and, um, connection to all things.
00:26:09.785 --> 00:26:10.475
I love it.
00:26:10.535 --> 00:26:13.835
I know you could, and I want you to
actually, and that's the beauty of
00:26:13.835 --> 00:26:15.435
what we're doing and I'm humbled by it.
00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:20.350
I'm so humbled by your work, it takes
a tremendous amount of courage to
00:26:20.350 --> 00:26:23.320
face ourselves, to look at ourselves.
00:26:23.710 --> 00:26:24.100
Yeah.
00:26:25.090 --> 00:26:25.450
Yeah.
00:26:25.540 --> 00:26:30.600
And it's not always beautiful,
like I said, but I think, I feel
00:26:30.600 --> 00:26:34.660
like you said this to me, maybe in
one of our integration sessions.
00:26:36.745 --> 00:26:40.285
The lightness and the darkness, it's both
without one, we can't have the other,
00:26:40.555 --> 00:26:46.675
you know, it's that beauty, it's that
the way that we show up vulnerably and
00:26:46.675 --> 00:26:52.165
ready to accept what's what's before us
and ahead of us and behind us too, you're
00:26:52.165 --> 00:26:56.455
walking right into how I was going to
end it too, as you know, my love affair
00:26:56.455 --> 00:26:58.315
for integrating darkness and light.
00:26:58.375 --> 00:27:02.155
And so with that, I'm so
grateful for having you.
00:27:03.820 --> 00:27:05.020
I'm grateful for being here.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.250
Thank you.
00:27:09.530 --> 00:27:12.980
Understanding your own darkness
is the best method for dealing
00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:14.540
with the darkness of other people.
00:27:15.350 --> 00:27:18.560
You do not become transformed
by imagining figures of light.
00:27:19.040 --> 00:27:22.910
But by bringing the darkness into
the light and your consciousness.
00:27:23.840 --> 00:27:26.390
The scariest thing is to
accept this invitation.
00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:32.210
But also live within the light and
darkness as it relates to you completely.
00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:35.120
By not just looking at the darkness.
00:27:35.510 --> 00:27:37.700
But expecting it all the time.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:43.460
Your visions will become clearer only
when you can look into your own hearts.
00:27:44.450 --> 00:27:45.380
And most of all.
00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:46.820
Be gentle.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:06.600
Just sitting, just sit at the
bank, have a large body of water,
00:00:06.840 --> 00:00:16.239
finding yourself, um, the threshold
imagining where you want to take this.
00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:19.270
How far out, how deep,
00:00:22.450 --> 00:00:23.200
what to share.
00:00:26.580 --> 00:00:30.000
And in this moment, I simply
invite you to go as deep in the
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.630
water, deep in the subject matter.
00:00:36.300 --> 00:00:39.720
And as far out as you
feel safe and comfortable,
00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:43.520
no.
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:50.570
The thing when you hit your
edge, when you feel resistance,
00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:55.680
That's okay.
00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:06.630
Take a moment now to simply
take stock in your surroundings,
00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:12.630
breathing in, breathing out
00:01:17.350 --> 00:01:19.390
and at your pace at your
rate, when you're ready.
00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:23.830
Hi, it's Ryan.
00:01:23.890 --> 00:01:27.520
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:29.650
invite my guests to share stories.
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:31.630
About their psychedelic experiences.
00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:35.200
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction
00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:36.580
and severe depression.
00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:39.460
To finding wholeness
and spiritual emergence.
00:01:40.240 --> 00:01:41.230
Today's podcast.
00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:43.240
You're going to hear
from one of my guests.
00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:44.740
Lyla.
00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:49.450
Who speaks to you about
different compounds MTMA effects
00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:51.610
of psilocybin and ketamine.
00:01:52.330 --> 00:01:55.240
And her new found
appreciation for self-love.
00:01:55.930 --> 00:01:57.130
Self-empowerment.
00:01:57.760 --> 00:01:58.960
And all things.
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.380
Finding healing in death.
00:02:03.550 --> 00:02:04.150
Lyla.
00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:10.190
How are you feeling coming in relaxed?
00:02:11.930 --> 00:02:12.350
I love that.
00:02:12.380 --> 00:02:14.660
Well, we're talking all
things psychedelic today.
00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:18.500
Tell me a little bit about what
kind of percolates up when you feel,
00:02:18.770 --> 00:02:22.010
how deep you can go and how far
out you can go with psychedelics.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.120
What percolates for me?
00:02:28.090 --> 00:02:38.750
Um, for me this, um, when you say
that I, I definitely, go to this space
00:02:38.750 --> 00:02:44.960
of understanding myself as a person
who has struggled with that going
00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:49.820
deeper or more expansive and have
had kind of a more controlled life.
00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:55.290
And so for me, that's meant, Keeping
things out instead of letting things in.
00:02:55.290 --> 00:03:02.920
And so for me, psychedelic work
has led me to a space of letting,
00:03:03.670 --> 00:03:11.320
letting myself expand and contract,
but expand into these spaces that,
00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:14.410
that weren't available to me before.
00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:15.670
And so.
00:03:17.260 --> 00:03:22.660
This has opened up a lot of opportunities
for me in my own life, um, with
00:03:22.660 --> 00:03:28.090
relationships, but within myself too,
it sounds as if, when you say that
00:03:28.090 --> 00:03:32.500
I really, really connect with the
idea of what, what our masks are,
00:03:32.590 --> 00:03:37.390
what our visions are, what we see
and what we want people to see in us.
00:03:37.420 --> 00:03:39.190
Even talking about psychedelics.
00:03:39.190 --> 00:03:39.580
It's like.
00:03:41.125 --> 00:03:46.075
That's a pretty loaded subject
matter and to find it so healing.
00:03:46.435 --> 00:03:48.925
How do you make sense of that,
that relationship of something
00:03:48.925 --> 00:03:55.165
so sacred and private to you and
knowing it's so important to you?
00:03:55.165 --> 00:03:56.725
What, what do you do with that path?
00:03:58.225 --> 00:04:02.185
Yeah, there's lots of different
ways of looking at that question.
00:04:02.185 --> 00:04:08.125
And for me, I guess the one that
comes up right away has to do with.
00:04:10.875 --> 00:04:16.395
You know, finding someone for me, you
know, finding a guide, which I did, who
00:04:16.395 --> 00:04:22.035
I can have a relationship with that's
built on trust and then being able
00:04:22.035 --> 00:04:30.225
to show up within that trust and be
open to the medicine I'm working with.
00:04:30.225 --> 00:04:32.175
Not just me, but with the guide too.
00:04:32.685 --> 00:04:33.245
So I think.
00:04:35.735 --> 00:04:42.155
For me, this medicine has opened up
a lot of space inside of myself that
00:04:45.385 --> 00:04:48.355
that's not just about trust, but
that's about discernment too.
00:04:48.355 --> 00:04:50.815
And that's been a word that I've
been thinking about this last week.
00:04:51.505 --> 00:04:56.755
Being able to discern, um,
relationships around me and what they
00:04:56.755 --> 00:05:02.335
do for me and being able to sort of
have this, uh, self-awareness of.
00:05:03.650 --> 00:05:07.370
Wanting to be in relationships
and knowing, you know, knowing
00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:10.190
how to say, I don't want to be
in a relationship or knowing how
00:05:10.190 --> 00:05:12.350
to say I do want to be relatable.
00:05:13.465 --> 00:05:17.425
Um, yeah, I think I could go lots
of different places with that.
00:05:17.845 --> 00:05:19.165
Oh my goodness.
00:05:19.195 --> 00:05:21.805
When you say that, is there
an emotion that comes up?
00:05:21.805 --> 00:05:27.055
I see, like this just stark vulnerability
to say, I want to be in relationships,
00:05:27.055 --> 00:05:30.085
be it with psychedelics or be it
with a community or be it with a
00:05:30.085 --> 00:05:33.295
certain person, but not ignoring the.
00:05:34.010 --> 00:05:38.720
You need to have going into psychedelic
work, talking with a person,
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:40.730
engaging in activities with others.
00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.380
How do you emotionally
connect to that storyline?
00:05:45.620 --> 00:05:47.480
How, what does discernment look to you?
00:05:49.370 --> 00:05:57.600
For me, it just looks, uh, and it
feels like, um, pretty like radical
00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:03.450
compassion for myself and, and, um, and
feeling proud of myself, like owning.
00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:11.980
This space of me and taking up
space and allowing other people into
00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:17.980
that space, instead of just having
people in the space or thinking that
00:06:17.980 --> 00:06:20.680
I'm not worthy of taking up space.
00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.380
So that's kind of the way
that it feels to me when.
00:06:24.370 --> 00:06:25.360
When I think about it.
00:06:26.110 --> 00:06:27.550
Have you had the experience?
00:06:27.550 --> 00:06:30.280
I know I've worked with you
as an integration therapist.
00:06:30.850 --> 00:06:34.630
Has there been an experience where
you've recognized I deserve to be at this
00:06:34.630 --> 00:06:36.940
place and deserving such a loaded term.
00:06:36.940 --> 00:06:41.320
I understand, but you say
worthy of, or being seen.
00:06:41.350 --> 00:06:42.850
I can only imagine.
00:06:43.660 --> 00:06:47.200
Being the opposite of doing
something for others, but
00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:50.020
actually receiving from something.
00:06:51.550 --> 00:06:53.830
Have you had experiences
that have alluded to that?
00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:59.200
I have, I've had, um, I've had
a number of experiences where
00:06:59.200 --> 00:07:05.590
I've had, uh, sort of touched on
that in my own psychedelic work.
00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:12.900
Um, I would say, you know, It's
interesting how all of these
00:07:12.900 --> 00:07:14.610
medicines work differently for me.
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:24.900
Um, for me, you know, psilocybin has
been a medicine that has opened me up
00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:30.690
to the understanding, the possibility of
this deeper connection to all things and
00:07:31.050 --> 00:07:33.720
allowed me to sort of explore the space
00:07:36.900 --> 00:07:38.940
and a different realm of.
00:07:40.345 --> 00:07:43.645
Deep connection and belongingness.
00:07:43.645 --> 00:07:47.245
And that word comes up a lot for
me in my work with psychedelic
00:07:47.245 --> 00:07:51.775
medicine and, um, yeah.
00:07:51.805 --> 00:07:54.445
And you know, and I can go into
each of them medicines that
00:07:54.625 --> 00:07:57.295
feel really differently to me
to affect kind of make sense.
00:07:57.815 --> 00:07:58.025
Yeah.
00:07:58.025 --> 00:08:03.905
When you say that out loud, have
you found, I think guideposts or.
00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:09.500
Maybe themes within your work group,
because I've heard from you this
00:08:10.200 --> 00:08:16.350
belonging, this idea that psilocybin has
created something in you that understands
00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:18.150
more universal, more collective.
00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:22.230
Are you saying that there's been
other intimate experiences that
00:08:22.230 --> 00:08:25.290
you've found more knowing in yourself?
00:08:25.320 --> 00:08:29.430
We would call that like your
biographical story or you're hearing now?
00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:31.290
Yeah.
00:08:34.300 --> 00:08:40.180
I've worked with MBMA before I've
worked with ketamine and psilocybin.
00:08:40.810 --> 00:08:49.420
And, um, I think with MTMA
I found a space that opened.
00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:54.890
That I didn't understand initially.
00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:56.420
And I've come to learn.
00:08:57.020 --> 00:09:00.560
And that's really important too, is that
that's not just within the medicine.
00:09:01.070 --> 00:09:05.660
Um, but it's, it's the integration
part where I really do the deep
00:09:05.660 --> 00:09:09.110
work of understanding what happened
and how to move that into my space.
00:09:09.110 --> 00:09:16.960
But with the MTMA, there were a lot of
images and a lot of emotions, um, That
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:24.160
I got to, and a lot of, uh, calling
for self-compassion and finding the
00:09:24.160 --> 00:09:28.750
space of being able to see, not just
myself, but other people in my life
00:09:29.410 --> 00:09:32.170
as, um, as all of us doing our best.
00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:38.080
Uh, even though that may have
felt really complicated and, um,
00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:42.220
uncertain and scary and painful and.
00:09:43.180 --> 00:09:46.420
But, but that was really helpful
for me within the space of MBMA.
00:09:47.410 --> 00:09:53.140
And, um, I watch you go somewhere when you
say that, I hear you go somewhere, when
00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:59.920
you say that, and I'm wondering what's the
emotion arising, there feels as if mixed
00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:02.260
emotions, but also an homage in the sense.
00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:08.870
Yeah, I think that feels to me, uh, like.
00:10:11.900 --> 00:10:14.300
The deepest sense of, um,
00:10:18.420 --> 00:10:24.240
what I, what I, what I wanted in my
life, which was this belongingness
00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:30.180
and connection kind of like
mixed up with just this radical
00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:31.920
self acceptance and compassion.
00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:37.620
And, um, that's something
that, uh, that has, since that.
00:10:38.425 --> 00:10:44.545
My MTMA experiences has sort of
built on, on itself and come to
00:10:44.545 --> 00:10:45.865
a space that's really different.
00:10:45.985 --> 00:10:54.425
And, um, maybe more spiritual, uh,
and an, in an emotion too, has a
00:10:54.425 --> 00:10:58.325
lot of spirituality and the way
that it feels to me, I love it.
00:10:58.415 --> 00:10:59.225
I really love it.
00:10:59.225 --> 00:11:00.665
And thank you for the vulnerability.
00:11:01.355 --> 00:11:06.485
I'm hearing a deep sense of like,
ah, to that I can be in Berlin.
00:11:07.375 --> 00:11:11.725
I can be in community, but I also
beforehand need to trust myself and
00:11:11.725 --> 00:11:17.245
love myself and without getting to new
age, you know, MDME does that to a lot
00:11:17.245 --> 00:11:19.705
of people, but it's a whole different
story when you actually feel it.
00:11:19.705 --> 00:11:20.185
It doesn't it.
00:11:21.145 --> 00:11:21.505
Yeah.
00:11:22.015 --> 00:11:22.375
Yeah.
00:11:22.975 --> 00:11:24.685
It's a whole different story at something.
00:11:25.135 --> 00:11:27.445
And I think this is important
for me, something that I
00:11:27.445 --> 00:11:29.895
really realized is that I feel.
00:11:31.580 --> 00:11:33.920
I don't think we know
how to do these things.
00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:38.000
If no one teaches us, if we don't
experience it, like tell me more
00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.380
and tell me more, go into that.
00:11:39.380 --> 00:11:39.740
Please.
00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:42.350
Like deep acceptance or
00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:50.300
the way that I think best describes
it as maybe the way that one feels
00:11:50.300 --> 00:11:54.830
about their child when they're born,
that, you know, in a healthy way, when
00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:56.860
we look at our children and we think.
00:11:57.865 --> 00:12:03.265
We shower this deep emotion on them of
like just, you are the most perfect thing.
00:12:03.265 --> 00:12:04.795
You are the most radical thing.
00:12:04.795 --> 00:12:09.445
You're the most beautiful accept you, you
know, it's this unconditional beautiful
00:12:09.445 --> 00:12:11.215
blindness and connection and love.
00:12:12.205 --> 00:12:18.415
I think that when that doesn't happen
for people, when they don't feel that,
00:12:18.415 --> 00:12:23.635
or when things happen in people's lives,
where they lose trust or they lose.
00:12:24.805 --> 00:12:27.625
This understanding of that or that,
or that didn't even exist in the
00:12:27.625 --> 00:12:29.815
first place that that can happen.
00:12:29.815 --> 00:12:30.625
I know too.
00:12:30.835 --> 00:12:36.115
And that, that is for me, how, how I
sort of experienced my life is that
00:12:36.115 --> 00:12:43.735
this medicine actually allows us to
feel what it feels like to feel loved
00:12:43.735 --> 00:12:53.735
or to feel beloved, beloved, you know,
to feel, um, Just this deep acceptance.
00:12:53.795 --> 00:13:00.395
And, um, and that really is not again,
it's, you know, I've been in therapy a
00:13:00.395 --> 00:13:05.225
long time in my life, and that's nothing
that I could have ever come up with.
00:13:05.675 --> 00:13:09.575
Even if I would have talked for
the next 50 years of my life.
00:13:09.575 --> 00:13:12.875
I don't think that I could
have created that sensation in
00:13:12.875 --> 00:13:15.245
my own body or learned that.
00:13:15.905 --> 00:13:21.655
And so this medicine for me,
Teachers my body that it teaches it.
00:13:22.135 --> 00:13:23.575
This is how this feels.
00:13:24.625 --> 00:13:31.495
And that's something that I'm incredibly
in awe of as you, as you just said too,
00:13:31.495 --> 00:13:33.895
and really grateful for, I love it.
00:13:34.315 --> 00:13:39.235
Speak to me a little bit about the
journey and how you intuitively know
00:13:39.235 --> 00:13:41.665
that you're awakening and reconnecting.
00:13:41.665 --> 00:13:43.675
I should say, because
I do believe for you.
00:13:43.675 --> 00:13:45.985
It's a reconnecting of
something you already know.
00:13:47.485 --> 00:13:49.195
What is next?
00:13:49.195 --> 00:13:50.245
What's on the horizon.
00:13:50.245 --> 00:13:54.325
And how do you discern in the
psychedelic world today for you?
00:13:57.145 --> 00:14:02.785
Well, I just had a, an experience
with a guide who I trust deeply,
00:14:02.815 --> 00:14:10.775
um, with psilocybin that was, um,
something just completely, uh,
00:14:10.825 --> 00:14:13.265
amazing to me and life changing.
00:14:13.985 --> 00:14:16.535
And perhaps was the, um, truly.
00:14:18.115 --> 00:14:28.555
The first time that I allowed myself
to, or learned how to, um, let parts of,
00:14:28.855 --> 00:14:35.365
and this is maybe too harsh of a word,
but parts of me, parts of my way die.
00:14:36.205 --> 00:14:38.695
And that, that was just incredible.
00:14:38.815 --> 00:14:43.405
It was as though I was
able to move into a space.
00:14:47.175 --> 00:14:52.245
That I didn't understand at all
before that it couldn't get to even,
00:14:52.395 --> 00:14:55.545
even with this self love and all
the compassionate couldn't go to
00:14:55.545 --> 00:14:58.575
the space and it got to the space.
00:15:01.355 --> 00:15:07.595
And then I felt it for the first time,
I actually was able to feel into all of
00:15:07.925 --> 00:15:11.815
the feelings that went along with, you
know, for me, it was a lot of pain and.
00:15:12.550 --> 00:15:19.960
But it was also ecstasy and exhilaration
and just maybe like a hundred different
00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:26.230
feelings I could go on and on all of them
happened and I felt them and I was able
00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:35.650
to, um, roll from that space, uh, into
a, sort of a death of that moment when
00:15:35.650 --> 00:15:38.170
I did need to move into someone else.
00:15:38.170 --> 00:15:41.380
When I was little, when I had to set my.
00:15:42.145 --> 00:15:47.005
Myself aside, uh, in order to sort of
survive in the setting that I was in.
00:15:47.875 --> 00:15:52.765
And so I, um, you know, I grew up
in, and I did my life in a certain
00:15:52.765 --> 00:15:57.295
way, but in this experience, I was
able to go to that space and feel
00:15:57.295 --> 00:15:58.915
it again and actually allow it.
00:15:59.605 --> 00:16:06.955
And then that part of me also, I
was compassionate and love died
00:16:06.955 --> 00:16:09.565
in a beautiful way and the most
beautiful and spiritual way.
00:16:10.510 --> 00:16:19.360
And to the space where I was able
to, um, uh, just be in this, in
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.200
this realm, in this world and in
this body, which was new for me.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.310
And so that was beautiful.
00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:29.590
And after that experience and you
and I processed and integrated that
00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:31.060
experience, and I'm really appreciative.
00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:36.265
And after that, Um, I, you know, I
was talking to my guide and maybe
00:16:36.265 --> 00:16:42.535
bringing up the possibility of doing
a little more work with MDME, um,
00:16:43.105 --> 00:16:50.255
to move into another space of, um,
understanding of that new newness, that
00:16:50.515 --> 00:16:56.265
new person, um, the defense mechanisms
not needing or serving you anymore.
00:16:56.325 --> 00:16:57.315
And exactly.
00:16:58.285 --> 00:17:01.825
And the humility that I've heard from
you too, around the idea of what a
00:17:01.825 --> 00:17:03.805
conscious death process looks like.
00:17:03.805 --> 00:17:08.185
Sounds like that was part of the
experience, your opportunity to really
00:17:08.575 --> 00:17:16.225
kind of design your own death and all
the challenges, both good dark and.
00:17:17.695 --> 00:17:22.075
As you said, full of ecstasy and
releasing and surrendering, what
00:17:22.075 --> 00:17:24.355
does it mean to you to surrender it?
00:17:24.385 --> 00:17:27.595
I've heard a lot of that
tonight in our conversations.
00:17:27.595 --> 00:17:34.405
This idea of surrendering for
me, it's, it's interesting.
00:17:34.495 --> 00:17:37.495
And my last experience I had
that deep surrender where I
00:17:37.495 --> 00:17:41.785
just, um, it's not a giving up.
00:17:41.785 --> 00:17:44.095
It didn't feel like a
giving up on any level.
00:17:44.095 --> 00:17:45.115
It felt like a.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:52.630
It felt like a deep acceptance
of, and willingness to
00:17:56.190 --> 00:18:05.920
just receive and, um, fall into and
become part of, there was nothing
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:13.220
about it that felt, um, Like a sever
or a cut or anything like that.
00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:15.770
It just felt beautiful,
like an integration.
00:18:15.860 --> 00:18:18.260
And I know he's talked
to me about that before.
00:18:18.830 --> 00:18:20.060
It's a little bit right.
00:18:21.050 --> 00:18:26.330
Some wholeness in integrating and
the full circle of life and death.
00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:28.370
No honor.
00:18:29.270 --> 00:18:34.680
Was there a sense that you were
exonerated the story of your childhood?
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.100
Was there a sense that you came
to more clarity around what.
00:18:39.565 --> 00:18:45.805
And see that there's beauty in
who you are and who you've become.
00:18:46.845 --> 00:18:47.265
Yeah.
00:18:47.295 --> 00:18:50.565
That was, um, very
deeply experienced this.
00:18:52.635 --> 00:18:58.665
Uh, this is, uh, I sometimes just
say things that mean something to
00:18:58.665 --> 00:19:06.065
me, but finding my place at the
table became, um, Very important
00:19:06.065 --> 00:19:07.625
in that moment where I found it.
00:19:08.075 --> 00:19:13.715
And then it felt very, um, accepted into
this sort of like, not just the human,
00:19:13.715 --> 00:19:20.585
but into the, you know, to the world, into
the universe of being a part of all things
00:19:20.615 --> 00:19:27.515
and mattering, you know, that where before
it was hard for me to find what mattered
00:19:27.545 --> 00:19:30.775
or that I had something to offer, I felt.
00:19:34.780 --> 00:19:37.360
I had a lot to offer and
I do have a lot to offer.
00:19:37.540 --> 00:19:42.760
And then, um, yeah, yeah, complicated.
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.940
It is complicated, which leads me
to dive into the rabbit hole of it's
00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:51.100
definitely not a one pill wonder.
00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:53.170
It's not a one and done.
00:19:53.590 --> 00:19:55.120
Can you elaborate to me?
00:19:55.300 --> 00:19:55.810
Right.
00:19:55.810 --> 00:19:56.830
Not even a label.
00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.460
And this is a laughing matter
because it's also, what's being
00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:01.900
kind of promoted in the world.
00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:08.590
There's this radical new experience
that provides this miraculous thing of
00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:15.910
eradicating suicidal depression or coming
to self-love or exonerating traumas.
00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:21.060
And what would you say your
personal story has become.
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:25.720
In relationship to the psychedelic
world, the psychedelic medicines
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.450
and the journey ahead for you.
00:20:30.070 --> 00:20:34.300
I think that it's interesting that
concept of taking a pill and making
00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:38.860
everything better, which I know we
want a quick answer for everything.
00:20:38.860 --> 00:20:41.620
I know people want to feel better
right away and they want to,
00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:49.540
they want to be done with things
or have things go away and.
00:20:51.895 --> 00:20:57.895
I think that I think that, that,
that can't be in our world.
00:20:57.895 --> 00:20:59.965
That there's the acceptance.
00:20:59.965 --> 00:21:05.855
That can be that there's the
deeper understanding of our
00:21:05.855 --> 00:21:09.455
situation, that there's the
forgiveness and the compassion.
00:21:09.455 --> 00:21:12.035
And that healing is really about that.
00:21:12.875 --> 00:21:19.565
It's not about making things go away
or one time, and everything's also.
00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:28.240
It's about, hopefully for me,
it's about being able to expand on
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.980
what I know and what I've learned.
00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:39.910
It's about finding the space to grow
after the process, you know, and
00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:42.940
maybe that takes a year in between.
00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:46.330
Maybe I, maybe I need a year
to integrate everything.
00:21:47.545 --> 00:21:49.705
Maybe I need two years,
maybe I need a month.
00:21:49.735 --> 00:21:53.635
I don't know, but I do
know life is not static.
00:21:53.665 --> 00:21:57.505
We're always changing
and growing and learning.
00:21:58.345 --> 00:22:09.395
And I think this medicine, there's a lot
of medicines in the psychedelic realm.
00:22:10.115 --> 00:22:16.175
Um, and these medicines, um,
have different properties and.
00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:23.470
We have different relationships
with them and just like us, they
00:22:23.470 --> 00:22:25.480
change, they change, they change us.
00:22:25.540 --> 00:22:26.740
We change within them.
00:22:27.100 --> 00:22:33.010
There's nothing static or one time
only about any of it at night.
00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:39.310
You know, I feel like I'm kind of
rambling, but what my point is, it's never
00:22:39.310 --> 00:22:42.070
just one thing it's never just once and.
00:22:43.495 --> 00:22:48.205
But can you have a wonderful
psychedelic experience and have
00:22:48.205 --> 00:22:50.695
that happen and grow deeply?
00:22:50.785 --> 00:22:51.355
Oh my God.
00:22:51.355 --> 00:22:52.705
Yeah, totally.
00:22:53.305 --> 00:22:53.695
You know?
00:22:54.625 --> 00:22:55.375
Absolutely.
00:22:55.405 --> 00:22:59.065
And it's not, it's not
just that one thing either.
00:22:59.995 --> 00:23:04.585
It's all the stuff that comes after
it and how you make sense of that
00:23:04.585 --> 00:23:09.235
and how you move your body into
that and your life into that space.
00:23:09.235 --> 00:23:09.625
You know?
00:23:09.955 --> 00:23:16.165
So yeah, it was dumb, so much wisdom in
that it's almost alarming to know because
00:23:16.165 --> 00:23:21.535
it kind of keeps people at bay and it also
brings people to the gates quite quicker.
00:23:21.535 --> 00:23:22.555
They're like, what?
00:23:23.825 --> 00:23:28.925
And I often say, you know, psychedelics
gives you what you need, not
00:23:28.925 --> 00:23:34.025
necessarily what you want, which
then can open up Pandora's box for
00:23:34.055 --> 00:23:36.395
endless and endless opportunities.
00:23:36.635 --> 00:23:40.535
And there's also, as you said, so
eloquently a time to set it down
00:23:40.925 --> 00:23:42.755
at time to practically integrate.
00:23:42.755 --> 00:23:47.825
It was so Brighty with clarity,
with attention to details.
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.140
What are you walking away with today?
00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:57.390
What's been not just in this conversation,
but your journey integrating this work,
00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:02.190
what what's landing for you today and what
are you carrying with so much sacredness
00:24:08.870 --> 00:24:18.140
I'm walking away with a deep sense
of gratitude for what I have.
00:24:19.555 --> 00:24:24.475
Found in what I've been allowed to see
in my own self and around me too, I'm
00:24:24.475 --> 00:24:36.115
walking away knowing that I, um, that
I have more, more, I don't want to
00:24:36.115 --> 00:24:42.775
call it work more integration, more,
um, places to see and journeys to take
00:24:43.465 --> 00:24:47.855
and that, um, and then I'm hoping.
00:24:48.820 --> 00:24:51.820
And this is more of a global
thing about psychedelic medicine.
00:24:51.820 --> 00:24:57.850
I'm hoping that as a, as a community,
as a world, that we're able to
00:24:58.780 --> 00:25:03.040
see this as a spiritual, emotional
00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:12.030
way of growing and not a instant Kira.
00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:15.600
And that that's what life is that we're,
it's a journey that we're on all of us
00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.315
and that, you know, This takes work.
00:25:19.315 --> 00:25:21.805
It's not a, and not
everything is beautiful.
00:25:22.105 --> 00:25:25.735
We're not all, it's not
all beauty out there.
00:25:25.825 --> 00:25:27.565
It's, it's complicated.
00:25:27.565 --> 00:25:36.705
It's, it's the nuance of, and the
complicated nature of all of us.
00:25:37.125 --> 00:25:42.825
And so how could we expect anything
other than that from a Madison, um, to,
00:25:43.005 --> 00:25:49.435
and so, you know, it's a journey and
it's a, um, It's an opening to change.
00:25:49.495 --> 00:25:57.995
And, um, for me, it's just been a
wonderful, um, wonderful addition to my
00:25:57.995 --> 00:26:06.425
life, my spiritual life and my sense of
self and, um, connection to all things.
00:26:09.785 --> 00:26:10.475
I love it.
00:26:10.535 --> 00:26:13.835
I know you could, and I want you to
actually, and that's the beauty of
00:26:13.835 --> 00:26:15.435
what we're doing and I'm humbled by it.
00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:20.350
I'm so humbled by your work, it takes
a tremendous amount of courage to
00:26:20.350 --> 00:26:23.320
face ourselves, to look at ourselves.
00:26:23.710 --> 00:26:24.100
Yeah.
00:26:25.090 --> 00:26:25.450
Yeah.
00:26:25.540 --> 00:26:30.600
And it's not always beautiful,
like I said, but I think, I feel
00:26:30.600 --> 00:26:34.660
like you said this to me, maybe in
one of our integration sessions.
00:26:36.745 --> 00:26:40.285
The lightness and the darkness, it's both
without one, we can't have the other,
00:26:40.555 --> 00:26:46.675
you know, it's that beauty, it's that
the way that we show up vulnerably and
00:26:46.675 --> 00:26:52.165
ready to accept what's what's before us
and ahead of us and behind us too, you're
00:26:52.165 --> 00:26:56.455
walking right into how I was going to
end it too, as you know, my love affair
00:26:56.455 --> 00:26:58.315
for integrating darkness and light.
00:26:58.375 --> 00:27:02.155
And so with that, I'm so
grateful for having you.
00:27:03.820 --> 00:27:05.020
I'm grateful for being here.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.250
Thank you.
00:27:09.530 --> 00:27:12.980
Understanding your own darkness
is the best method for dealing
00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:14.540
with the darkness of other people.
00:27:15.350 --> 00:27:18.560
You do not become transformed
by imagining figures of light.
00:27:19.040 --> 00:27:22.910
But by bringing the darkness into
the light and your consciousness.
00:27:23.840 --> 00:27:26.390
The scariest thing is to
accept this invitation.
00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:32.210
But also live within the light and
darkness as it relates to you completely.
00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:35.120
By not just looking at the darkness.
00:27:35.510 --> 00:27:37.700
But expecting it all the time.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:43.460
Your visions will become clearer only
when you can look into your own hearts.
00:27:44.450 --> 00:27:45.380
And most of all.
00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:46.820
Be gentle.
