The Demand Problem for Recycled Materials

WEBVTT
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Welcome to Daddy's Podcast. This is the Redefining
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Plastics Podcast. Welcome to the Redefining Plastics
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Podcast. My name is Samantha Ryan, and I am here
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with my co -host, Justin Riney. Today we are
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going to be discussing demand to make recycling
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work. We're going to do it a little different
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today, just me and Justin kind of spitballing
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back and forth and seeing what we get out of
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it. But... To start off the episode, I don't
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know if any of our viewers saw or if you're not
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connected with me on LinkedIn. I put out a post
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just asking maybe what you wanted to hear about
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or things we should discuss. And then I made
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a little joke about Taylor Swift. And some people
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really liked it and some people didn't like that
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I wasn't talking about plastics for my entire
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life. So I'm back to not talk about plastics.
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but also talk about plastics by making a fun
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game. So we're going to, at the beginning of
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every episode, probably when we have guests also,
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just to keep it fun. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. I'm
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going to do two truths and a lie, but it's not
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only going to be plastics -based. The one today
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will have, I did like a pop culture, a plastic,
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and just like general news. So how the game works,
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I tell you three facts. Two of them are true.
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One of them is a lie. And we're not going to
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tell you the answer until the end of the episode.
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So you can spend the whole time not listening
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to us and thinking which one's the lie. Love
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it. Absolutely love it. So this is our first
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one. So maybe some feedback would be good. And
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we need like some theme music rolling in right
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now. Maybe like a fancy video intro. Maybe I'll
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do that. Okay, so the first fact I'm going to
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tell you is Lego recently announced that they're
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ditching their recycled PET brick prototype,
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saying it actually had a higher carbon footprint
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than their current oil -based ABS bricks. That's
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true. Okay, well, we're not going until the end.
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Can I play or is it everybody else? No, you can
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play. Okay. Oh, you're guessing, I guess, too.
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Beyonce just became the first female artist to
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have a number one album in the U .S. in five
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consecutive decades from the 90s through the
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2020s. And then lastly, NASA recently confirmed
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that asteroid Bennu contains high concentrations
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of gold, making it one of the most valuable space
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samples ever collected. Are we going to do like...
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but not to save the world, but just go up there
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and take all the gold. I think that would be
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incredible. Also, the whole Beyonce thing is
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kind of breaking my brain. Five decades? So she
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became the first female artist to have a number
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one album in the U .S. for five decades. So she
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must have started in 99. Well, it says from the
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90s. I guess they just wanted to sound bad. She
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doesn't seem like she's that old, though. It's
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like five decades, 50 years. I think she's my
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age. Was she in a group? Yeah. You don't know
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what group she was in? No, I do. Please tell
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me you don't know what group Beyonce was in before.
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Was it Destiny's Child? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
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Even I knew that, and I don't know a damn thing
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about pop culture. I don't listen to Beyonce,
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so I don't even know if that's true or not, honestly.
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I don't care. My guess is it's the gold. But
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I have no clue. Okay. Well, me neither. The 50,
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the five decades thing is kind of breaking my
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brain, though. That might not be it either. And
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I don't really like her music, but that's just
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me. And I think the ones when they're not true,
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I don't think it's as silly as like, no, it was
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four decades. That's true. We got you on a technicality.
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Yeah, it's not going to be a technicality lie.
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It's just going to be like straight up not true.
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Yeah. So as Sam mentioned, great work on the
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post, by the way, is I think we talked and when
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I tried to do the same thing, I did a poll and
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I got two responses. Which is so funny because
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clicking a button is so much easier than commenting
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an idea. Nobody cared what I had to say, but
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as soon as Sam says something, everybody's like,
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oh, I need to interact. I'm going to put 15 responses
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on here. It got a little controversial there
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in the comments. I know, it did. Which I love
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a little. One gentleman in particular had opinions
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about whether or not we need to be talking about
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plastics and who I need to be talking to. Some
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self -described plastics recycling expert that
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I'd never heard of before. But regardless. We
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did take a couple out of there, so we appreciate
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everybody's feedback on the post. But the one
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that we decided to go with today, because we
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had a pre -call, was it last week? My days are
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all melding together at this point. Yeah. This
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week's taking forever. So we decided we're going
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to go with demand for PCR, demand for recycled
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content. How do we solve for that side of the
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equation? Everybody thinks that if we collect
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it, it's just going to find a home. EPR is, hey,
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we're going to collect more and more and more
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recycled content. That's good, right? But where's
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it all going to go? And we're not talking just
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plastics either. We're talking where's all the
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glass going to go? Is it all going to go to asphalt?
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Where's all the paper going to go? Because twice
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the amount of paper goes to the landfill every
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year. Not bashing paper. There's just more of
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it. And we want to recycle more of it. We want
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to recycle more of all materials. But we need
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some sort of a market stimulus in order for it
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to work. And so that's kind of where we wanted
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to run with it. So we talked, I guess it was
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just I talked to Greg at Triton last week. And
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he's going to be this coming week's podcast guest.
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And he was talking about the paper recycling
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industry. A couple of years ago, probably decades
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ago, when he first started back in the industry,
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probably late 90s, early 2000s. He was talking
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about they had 25 -year contracts for all of
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the paper. And that made it so his company went
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out and searched for new volume. So how do we
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do that in plastics? So I guess the conversation
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then becomes. How do we solve for that? How do
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we get more people to buy recycled content material?
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And right now, the big issue is everybody says
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inflation. I think it's an excuse for a lot of
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these big brands. They're just saying, oh, you
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know, costs are up. Nobody wants to pay more.
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But really, I think they just want the margin,
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if we're being honest. And they don't want to
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give up any of their margin by making the right
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choice and supporting recycling in the U .S.?
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Well, I feel like there's all with bigger corporations.
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And again, I am so new to this that maybe I don't
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know what I'm talking about. But there's always
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somewhere else they can get it now. So it's like,
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right. Like they don't need. It's not like it's
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their loss. Yeah. Like it's always. You can import,
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recycle. They're going to be fine no matter what.
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So they don't really care like. For those people
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that are listening to this and not seeing this,
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I am using air quotes when I say recycled content
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material from Asia. Because I got questions whether
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or not that stuff's actually PCR or if it's just
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stated as PCR. But that stuff you can get for
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cheaper than pretty much anything delivered into
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the U .S. right now. You can get it all day long.
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Cheaper than virgin, cheaper than off -grade
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material. And then that just squeezes out the
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local recycler. So we need to figure this out.
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Like, how do we make it so when we're in these
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bad markets like we're in right now, recyclers
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survive? I don't know if you've seen all these
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stories about like six or seven recycling plants
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in Europe have closed this year already. Because
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of where the market's at? I feel like, I don't
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know if this is, but a plant that I recently
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visited, it wasn't a recycling plant. It was
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a manufacturing plant and they were buying recycled
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plastic. But they, how you mentioned a contract,
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they did have a contract, but it wasn't with
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a, like a recycler. It was basically with another.
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manufacturing company and their um malfunction
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product okay so like they were recycling their
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product it wasn't water bottles but pretend it's
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water bottles that came out dented or melted
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wrong which makes sense because they are it's
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pretty consistent like they're going to get the
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same thing every time and what they were making
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was colored so they were like we don't even care
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what color the malfunctions are because that
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will take any color but i feel like That really
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works well for them, but then it's kind of like
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they don't really need to buy from anywhere else
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because then they have this contract already
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with the manufacturer. Do you know what I'm saying?
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Yeah, and that's post -industrial too. Right,
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but then it's kind of like that's kind of cutting
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out the actual recycled. I mean, regardless,
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it's getting recycled at the end of the day,
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but it's kind of cutting out the actual recycled
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products that need to be. It kind of just feels
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like it's circling around, which is great for
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them, but then it's also like the people or the
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plants that actually have recycled. The same
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material worked just fine, but they're like,
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we already have this great setup. Like we don't
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need, you know what I mean? Maybe that's irrelevant,
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but I feel like. That's not. That's kind of like
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when I was there, I was kind of like, oh, they
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got this great. Like I saw like the big Gaylords
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of water bottles and I was like, dang, like you
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just got these coming in and you don't even have
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to think about like sourcing from anywhere else
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because it's working for them. It's working for
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you. I'm sure you get the same price all the
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time. Like you just pay the same, charge the
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same, and then it's circulating. There's nothing
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wrong with doing it that way. Right. But for
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people that are making it their livelihood to
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recycle plastics, like DP, for an example, so
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direct polymers, all of those people are working
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every day to make that recycled product. And
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if there's not somebody at the end that's going
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to pay a fair market price for that, they're
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not going to make it. And then that's the issue
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right now. I think it's definitely way more complicated
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than just say, hey, we're going to produce it.
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You got to buy it. Well, it's got to be the right
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quality. It's got to be the right material. Yeah.
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So finding a buyer. I've seen that, too. It's
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like it's not exactly what they need, too. So
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it's like just even finding people to take it
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off your hands is hard. Yeah. And I've seen personally.
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I've had projects that I've worked on for multiple
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years that as soon as the market drops, they
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stop buying it because they can get other material
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cheaper. These are same companies and brands
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that have come out and said, sustainability is
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important to us. We're going to have 25 % recycled
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content. We're going to do all this stuff. But
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as soon as the market turns, crickets, they're
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gone. And that's the real issue here is because.
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Certain people are saying that they're committed
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and they're saying that they want to make recycling
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in America work. But as soon as the market turns,
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they're the first people gone. And that is, I
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think, one of the biggest issues. So I was at
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a recycling conference in Cincinnati probably
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three weeks ago now where I was speaking. And
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Steve Alexander, the head of the Association
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of Plastic Recyclers. was up there and he was
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talking about demand being the biggest problem
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for plastic recyclers in the U .S. right now.
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And if there isn't significant change, more people
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are going to go out of business. I thought it
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was kind of interesting timing because like four
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or five days later, our planet Earth, which is
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one of the biggest PET recyclers in California,
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shut down because they just didn't have demand.
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So I think there's something has to be done where
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people are actually going to have to step up
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and do what they say they're going to do. Otherwise,
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we can collect as much recycled content as we
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want in California. None of it's going to get
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recycled if people aren't going to buy it back.
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Right. And that's kind of where it's at right
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now. And I've said it a couple times. I think
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extended producer responsibility, EPR. solves
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for the wrong side of the equation over and over
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again. I think we have enough collection of plastics
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right now. Let's just put it this way. For what's
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being sold, we have enough collection of plastics
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right now. We need more collection of plastics,
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but first we need people to actually buy what's
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being collected. And that's the key, is right
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now people are just saying, well, if we just...
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Put in a new MRF, another recovery facility.
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That's just more plastics that are going to get
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recycled. No. That's only half the equation.
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Or more paper that's going to get recycled. No.
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You need people that are actually going to buy
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it back and commit to buying it back long term.
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That way people want to put their money into
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new investments, new lines, new relationships.
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But nobody's going to do any of that if they
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:27.279
don't know they're going to be able to sell it.
00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.960
Also thinking back now is that I feel like a
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.399
lot of just because of the problem, like they're
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:37.019
getting so much. They don't even have room anymore.
00:14:37.299 --> 00:14:39.460
Yeah. Like in some of their facilities. So like
00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:42.059
that could like it almost kind of like causes
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:45.620
that issue. It's like or things are sitting for
00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:48.039
so long. Yeah. And it's like, what do you like?
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.440
Like I said, I get it. Like things happen and
00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.779
it's not abnormal to like have trash. Like I.
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.159
It's not like crazy, but it is like it's almost
00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.820
like how many things can we focus on at once
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.139
when it's like now we don't even have like I've
00:15:02.139 --> 00:15:04.879
I don't know. Maybe you can answer this. I don't
00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:08.399
know how common it is to literally be like we
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.980
don't have room. I've heard from some like we
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:12.940
don't have room on the floor. And then I'm kind
00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:16.299
of like it's never a good time. Yeah, that's
00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:18.419
what I figured, because I've heard that not a
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:20.919
lot, but I've heard it. When I would be like,
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:22.539
oh, can we deliver this or this, this, this?
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:24.039
And they're like, we don't have room for it.
00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:26.440
And I'm like, you don't have room for like a
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:28.940
load? Either they did a really bad job of planning
00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:32.100
out that facility. Right. They're ramping up
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:34.960
for a customer. Yeah. Which ramping up for a
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.620
customer, that'd be a good thing. Yeah. Like
00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:38.980
they need the space, but I never obviously like,
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:40.620
I'm just like, okay, like when can you take it?
00:15:40.659 --> 00:15:42.799
Because it's not really my business slash I don't
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.480
have like, it leaves my brain five seconds after
00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.220
I read it. But. I did. I never asked about like
00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:52.379
I never really asked anybody about that because
00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.000
I was just like, I don't know, like maybe they
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.600
do have a smaller facility and they, you know,
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.039
they don't take in as much or they have to literally
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:01.139
work on like one in one out, one in one out.
00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:03.779
But it did shock me kind of now that we're talking
00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:05.320
about this. I'm like, wow, you really had no
00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:09.159
space on the floor like you can't get rid of.
00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:13.799
And I don't think that's a norm for who I was
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.500
talking to because I only heard it like twice.
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:19.100
Yeah. And I mean, I've never been to their facility,
00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:23.240
but. I think it happens whenever there's a downturn
00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.860
like this. People will have difficulty moving
00:16:26.860 --> 00:16:30.000
product. And then you'll see situations where
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.639
they've got more finished goods than they can
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.639
sell over a certain time frame. And then the
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.159
cost, the market goes down. So they've got high
00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.480
cost material and inventory that they're trying
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.580
to sell into a market. So it's always a loss.
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.330
So you're replacing with. So you're just continually
00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:51.789
losing money, which is why a lot of people don't
00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:54.289
like sitting on inventory, but certain customers
00:16:54.289 --> 00:16:57.750
you have to. Yeah, and I've seen some yards,
00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:02.490
I guess. Like it's not even in there. Just junk
00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:05.289
everywhere. This stressed me out, and it wasn't
00:17:05.289 --> 00:17:08.410
even ours. And I was like, what are you? And
00:17:08.410 --> 00:17:12.549
it was outside. So I'm like, it's sitting and
00:17:12.549 --> 00:17:16.190
getting wet and gross. And I'm like, what are
00:17:16.190 --> 00:17:17.630
you going to do? Welcome to recycling. Right.
00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:20.509
Like I said, guys, like, give me a break. This
00:17:20.509 --> 00:17:22.970
is only my first year. So this is all kind of
00:17:22.970 --> 00:17:25.730
new, which is why, like, a lot of this will probably
00:17:25.730 --> 00:17:28.890
be questions as well. Because I've heard that,
00:17:28.910 --> 00:17:31.150
like, the market is so bad. But this is, like,
00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:37.390
my first year. And, like, we're doing, I would
00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:39.990
say, like, fine. Yeah. Direct Polymers is doing
00:17:39.990 --> 00:17:43.509
fine. Well, or Brave. Yeah. But then I'm talking.
00:17:43.589 --> 00:17:44.809
Well, because you guys are doing something different.
00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.319
Yeah, I'm also referring to Brave. I mean, drug
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.039
polymer is doing fine. But when I say we're like,
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.220
but then again, I'm like, are we? Because I've
00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:56.819
never. You are. What is it like when the market
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.859
is good? Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah,
00:17:58.940 --> 00:18:02.759
I've never. So just to give you an example, the
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.920
most recent numbers I heard for bales of polypropylene
00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:11.880
out of a MRF, just open market, half a cent a
00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:14.769
pound. either a penny to a half a cent, which
00:18:14.769 --> 00:18:18.490
means that that MRF is losing money on every
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.329
pound of material that they ship out because
00:18:21.329 --> 00:18:24.950
that MRF has operating costs, capital costs,
00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:26.529
working capital. They've got all that stuff.
00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:31.250
Typically, that stuff trades in the 20s to maybe
00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:35.509
mid -20s. So that shows you how far down it is.
00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:40.309
Half a penny. Mid -20s to half a penny? Yeah.
00:18:41.029 --> 00:18:44.789
So let's just play a game here. If you buy this
00:18:44.789 --> 00:18:47.269
raw material at half a penny and then you got
00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:49.930
five cents in freight. So you're at five and
00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:53.170
a half cents freight delivered to direct polymers.
00:18:53.230 --> 00:18:55.589
We're just going to use it as an example. You
00:18:55.589 --> 00:19:01.549
got another five cents minimum in grinding. So
00:19:01.549 --> 00:19:03.230
you're up to ten and a half cents. Then you got
00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:05.109
packaging. So you probably got another two to
00:19:05.109 --> 00:19:08.289
three cents. So you're up to 12 or 13. And then
00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:11.480
you got freight to the customer. So you're probably
00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:16.099
getting closer to 20 cents here. And then you've
00:19:16.099 --> 00:19:18.500
got all of the other costs that go into that.
00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:21.019
And then you've got wide -spec resin selling
00:19:21.019 --> 00:19:25.259
in the 30s to 40s. So you're competing with recycled
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:30.339
content with just dirt -priced material that's
00:19:30.339 --> 00:19:35.700
almost virgin, that's almost as cheap as free
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.789
feedstock recycled content. Because free, half
00:19:39.789 --> 00:19:44.569
cent, whatever, it's still really low. But there's
00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.569
just no way that somebody, let's say I had a
00:19:47.569 --> 00:19:50.170
million, a hundred million dollars, and I am
00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:55.109
really focused on building a new recycling facility
00:19:55.109 --> 00:19:57.930
because that's my passion. And then I look at
00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:00.269
the market dynamics and the fundamentals and
00:20:00.269 --> 00:20:03.130
say, hell no, I'm not putting my hundred million
00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:06.099
dollars into that. Because there's nobody that's
00:20:06.099 --> 00:20:08.160
committing unless I could get a brand that says,
00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:09.859
I'm going to buy 100 % of what you're buying
00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:13.339
or what you sell and what you make. We'll buy
00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:15.220
it all today and we'll buy it for the next 10
00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:20.079
years at a price that's going to get it so you
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.200
can reinvest and you can continue operations.
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.900
Until we get that, nobody's going to invest more
00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.740
money in this. It would have to be legislation
00:20:30.740 --> 00:20:33.819
or subsidies or something to keep the market
00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:36.759
going. When really, if the brands actually just
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.680
stepped up and said, we're going to buy it regardless
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.140
of what the cost is for everything else. Because
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:46.539
inflation be damned, packaging right now is dirt
00:20:46.539 --> 00:20:50.380
cheap because all of the feedstock costs for
00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:54.019
everything is cheap. So anybody that says, well,
00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:56.019
you know, we got to save money for inflation,
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:59.440
but packaging is such a small part of your product.
00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:03.220
And on top of that, all packaging materials are
00:21:03.220 --> 00:21:08.000
cheap. So that's not the issue. So what's really
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.140
stopping you from doing this? That's the whole
00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:13.859
crux of the argument. Like, why can't people
00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:16.619
do that like they did in the paper industry back
00:21:16.619 --> 00:21:19.859
in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s? Do you think
00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:24.380
that they prefer not having so many different
00:21:24.380 --> 00:21:28.900
streams? It's easier not to run post -consumer.
00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.339
It's so much easier not to use recycled content.
00:21:32.619 --> 00:21:36.650
Yeah. If you buy inversion or even wide spec,
00:21:36.869 --> 00:21:39.289
you have a pretty good idea what it's going to
00:21:39.289 --> 00:21:42.650
be and it's consistent. And a lot of these plants
00:21:42.650 --> 00:21:46.150
for packaging specifically are high volume, high
00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:49.970
throughput. So the more consistent the material
00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:53.269
is, the more product you get out and you're playing
00:21:53.269 --> 00:21:57.210
a very small margin game in packaging, but you're
00:21:57.210 --> 00:22:00.089
getting it on quantity, like the amount of packages
00:22:00.089 --> 00:22:04.259
you make. So the more consistent it is, the more
00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:06.119
throughput you get, the more money you're making.
00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.480
So if you add recycled content in, it kind of
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.839
does the opposite. Interesting. So there are
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.559
arguments to be made that we're trying to, like
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.299
another thing Greg said on the most recent episode
00:22:23.299 --> 00:22:26.000
that's coming out by the time this publishes
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.920
or will already be out, he talked about how Trying
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.660
to shove recycled content material into packaging
00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:39.259
is a bad idea. And I tend to believe that that's
00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:44.559
right because we're trying to make recycled content
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:49.599
work in the same way that Virgin works for these
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.059
high throughput applications. And it's just never
00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:55.000
going to do that. It can't do that. It's not
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.619
going to be as consistent. It's not going to
00:22:56.619 --> 00:23:00.569
be as clean. Right. So we should put it in other
00:23:00.569 --> 00:23:03.210
applications because we need to find applications
00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:06.549
because we got to do something with this material.
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.470
I don't want it to end up in a landfill. That's
00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:10.309
the exact opposite of what I want. Because that's
00:23:10.309 --> 00:23:12.009
the only thing that really comes to mind, I feel
00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:14.549
like, is when you have contracts with certain
00:23:14.549 --> 00:23:19.650
facilities or recyclers, it's like you're kind
00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:21.970
of constantly getting the same stuff. Yeah. And
00:23:21.970 --> 00:23:25.410
it's consistent. So maybe that's why, like, I
00:23:25.410 --> 00:23:28.579
don't know. I feel like with big brands. It's
00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:32.319
kind of a selfish game a little bit. It is. They're
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.180
going to make money no matter what. So, like,
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:35.880
if something works for them and it's easy for
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.500
them to get and it's consistent, the price is
00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:43.180
right, the supplier is like, yeah, this works.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.920
Like, at least we have somebody taking it. Yeah.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.559
Then it's kind of like, well, why? Like, why
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.640
would we change it? You know? Yeah. Like, I feel
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.819
like, I mean. that's what comes to mind for me
00:23:55.819 --> 00:23:58.240
when it's because I keep it's funny like we're
00:23:58.240 --> 00:23:59.900
literally talking about the why but I keep finding
00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:02.039
myself being like yeah why are they do why aren't
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.660
they buying it that's what I'm like that's what
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.299
we're and I don't know like I almost I keep trying
00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:11.480
to give like I guess that's the point of the
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:13.960
conversation but it's I don't know it's interesting
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:17.599
to think about because it is kind of like because
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.019
being a big brand it's just kind of like a I
00:24:20.019 --> 00:24:21.660
don't know if it's a selfish game but it's kind
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:25.099
of like a fend for one You've got to look out
00:24:25.099 --> 00:24:28.700
for your investors. So if you're a public company,
00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:32.319
you have a fiduciary. There's your word of the
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.019
day. Responsibility to take care of your. So
00:24:36.019 --> 00:24:39.220
just you have to make good financial decisions
00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:41.180
in order to make sure that you give a return
00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:45.880
to the people that own your company. So I get
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:50.380
that. I get that you're incentivized to drive
00:24:50.380 --> 00:24:53.410
the highest margin that you can. But if that's
00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:56.069
the case, you can't be out there saying, we're
00:24:56.069 --> 00:24:59.130
going to have 25 % recycled content. We're going
00:24:59.130 --> 00:25:02.349
to buy every pound of PCR. And then as soon as
00:25:02.349 --> 00:25:05.490
PCR becomes more expensive or significantly more
00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:08.089
expensive than what you can buy version costs
00:25:08.089 --> 00:25:11.170
at, then you go away. You can't have it both
00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:14.329
ways. You can't state to the world that you're
00:25:14.329 --> 00:25:17.029
going to do PCR. And then as soon as the market
00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:20.630
turns, you walk away. That's hypocrisy. Of the
00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:22.109
highest order. Yeah, but do they care? And that
00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:26.390
drives me insane. What was that? Do they care?
00:25:27.710 --> 00:25:30.269
No. That's what I mean. Like, I don't think that,
00:25:30.349 --> 00:25:33.089
like, no. They want people to think they care.
00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:35.349
Like, no, you can't do that. You can't. But,
00:25:35.390 --> 00:25:37.650
like, you can. Yeah. You really can. It's not
00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:39.609
right, but, like, you can do that. You can eat
00:25:39.609 --> 00:25:41.829
the margin. Right. You can eat the couple pennies
00:25:41.829 --> 00:25:44.329
here and there if you truly believe in this.
00:25:44.609 --> 00:25:47.309
Yeah. No, yeah. No, I agree, but I'm just saying,
00:25:47.390 --> 00:25:49.670
like, you can't do that. You can't say that.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.160
They can and they are and they because they know
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:58.960
that like they're on top anyway. And I think
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.240
this reminds me of like the conversation we had
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:10.259
about. Oh, shoot. It was kind of like if. Shoot,
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:13.900
it was companies maybe lying about like, is it
00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:17.130
greenwashing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of
00:26:17.130 --> 00:26:18.390
reminding me of that because they're going to
00:26:18.390 --> 00:26:20.170
say whatever they want. But who's going to come
00:26:20.170 --> 00:26:23.750
out and be like, what, one person in their multi,
00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:25.450
multi -billion dollar companies and be like,
00:26:25.470 --> 00:26:26.730
oh, you're lying. They're going to be like, okay,
00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:29.869
you're nothing compared to this company. You
00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:31.990
know who does call them out on that is NGOs.
00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:36.589
And that's the only time that I agree with folks
00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:39.549
like Beyond Plastics is when they call out big
00:26:39.549 --> 00:26:41.490
brands for saying that they're going to do something
00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:44.130
and they're not following through. And let me
00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.000
be clear. There are some big brands that actually
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:51.079
live this and actually do it. And they are making
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:53.900
the conscious decision to pay more because they
00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:56.700
know it's the right thing to do. Other brands
00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:02.240
are just not there. And I'm not going to throw
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.940
out names or whatever. We would shout out the
00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:08.279
ones that do. Well, you got like, let's just
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:12.579
look. You talked Lego earlier. They're living
00:27:12.579 --> 00:27:18.630
this. They are investing highly in reducing carbon
00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:20.849
footprint. They are putting their money where
00:27:20.849 --> 00:27:24.609
their mouth is. There are other brands that do
00:27:24.609 --> 00:27:32.829
that. Very few. Is Lego vocal about that? Yes.
00:27:32.869 --> 00:27:34.329
It's all over their website. Do you think that
00:27:34.329 --> 00:27:38.349
that changes the brand to the customers of Lego?
00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:43.259
I think it depends on the customer base. Well,
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:45.220
I don't want to say anything. I don't know. A
00:27:45.220 --> 00:27:47.740
random freaking brand. Like we talked about Logan
00:27:47.740 --> 00:27:52.259
Paul's like Prime. Yeah. If it was that, I have
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:55.319
no idea. I'm not a Logan Paul girl. If you look
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.839
at the statistics, 71 % of Americans say they
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:02.039
make buying decisions based on the recyclability
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.319
or sustainability of a product. Because that's
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:05.880
what I was going to ask. Because I don't know.
00:28:06.740 --> 00:28:09.000
Again, using him as an example, I've never been
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:10.819
to the website, but I don't know if it says anything
00:28:10.819 --> 00:28:14.589
about being recycled. But I'm wondering if, for
00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:18.210
example, if they tested adding something to their
00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.450
site for six months, would their sales increase?
00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:26.410
And that's genuine. I do wonder, do consumers
00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:31.849
care? That's a good question. Because I think
00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:36.170
that 71 % is overinflated. I think maybe one
00:28:36.170 --> 00:28:39.730
half to one third of that number is more realistic.
00:28:40.269 --> 00:28:41.829
Because I think everybody's virtue signaling.
00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:45.289
Because I don't personally, I probably should.
00:28:45.569 --> 00:28:48.630
Now I will. I just like buy stuff that I like.
00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:51.130
You're not paying attention to the packaging.
00:28:51.349 --> 00:28:53.049
The only thing that I've always noticed, because
00:28:53.049 --> 00:28:55.710
I'm looking at it so often, is that my visa is
00:28:55.710 --> 00:28:58.950
made of recycled bonds. Well, there you go. So
00:28:58.950 --> 00:29:01.509
I guess, and I'm always like that always. But
00:29:01.509 --> 00:29:03.670
now I guess working in the industry, I do notice
00:29:03.670 --> 00:29:08.079
it more now. Like I'll. I mean, I'm not the kind
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:09.940
of person who like I'll drink any water bottle
00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:11.480
brand. I don't really care. Like all water pretty
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.599
much tastes the same. But I will notice if it
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.740
says like made from like this has been this plastic
00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:20.740
has been used however many times or like this
00:29:20.740 --> 00:29:23.200
is whatever. And I'll be like, oh, like, you
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.440
know, I'm like, cool. But I feel like a normal
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.599
person who's just working like a job like me
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.319
two years ago. Like, again, a lot of people who
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.619
I've told about. my job or what the industry
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:41.359
I'm in, 99 % of the time they're like, I've never
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.200
heard of that. I never thought about where, like
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:46.900
I just recycled and I never thought about it
00:29:46.900 --> 00:29:50.799
again. So it just does make me wonder when these
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.880
brands are doing the right thing. One, are they
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.319
doing the right thing because they want to help
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.500
out the small businesses? Or two, are they doing
00:29:58.500 --> 00:29:59.900
the right thing because they get to plaster it
00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:01.640
on their website, which they hope drives up sales?
00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:06.039
Second. It's the second. Right. So but then again,
00:30:06.259 --> 00:30:08.599
the question stands, does it actually drive up
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:11.059
sales? Like do people because Lego is like the
00:30:11.059 --> 00:30:14.839
biggest toy company in the world. So it's like
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:16.700
I think that people are going to buy Legos, whether
00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:18.980
they're from recycled plastic or not. Legos are
00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:20.140
Legos. They're going to build. They're going
00:30:20.140 --> 00:30:21.839
to click. Doesn't matter where they came from.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.420
Yeah. And that's true. And I think that's why
00:30:25.420 --> 00:30:28.779
Lego is an even better example of what I'm talking
00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:33.119
about, because that demand. to use economic terms,
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.259
is inelastic. It's not going anywhere. People
00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:39.539
are going to buy Legos because they love Legos.
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:43.640
Right. Legos doing this because they truly believe
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.740
in this. Okay. So I guess that answers one of
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:48.740
the questions is why are they doing it? But I
00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:53.019
guess other brands, it's just a nice stamp on
00:30:53.019 --> 00:30:55.759
the website. Yeah. Which I guess could... Virtue
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.680
signaling, greenwashing at the highest order.
00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:58.900
Let me ask this, and if it's a stupid question,
00:30:59.019 --> 00:31:02.269
you might have to edit it out. What? What's that?
00:31:02.369 --> 00:31:04.190
You're asking a question that you think might
00:31:04.190 --> 00:31:06.349
be stupid right now or what we're talking about?
00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:08.750
No, what I'm about to ask. Okay, go ahead. Do
00:31:08.750 --> 00:31:10.970
you think that whether, like with Lego, I guess,
00:31:11.130 --> 00:31:15.269
does it change the cost of their product, whether
00:31:15.269 --> 00:31:17.450
or not they're doing this or not? It does. Yeah.
00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:19.849
Does it make it more because they're losing money?
00:31:22.269 --> 00:31:24.230
They're not going to charge more for it, I don't
00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:25.710
think. That's my question. I don't know. I don't
00:31:25.710 --> 00:31:29.420
talk to Lego, but I guarantee you. Let me just
00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:32.059
text them and ask them. I don't have friends
00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:33.240
there or anything. Because that's my question.
00:31:33.859 --> 00:31:36.819
You wouldn't think so, but it makes me wonder,
00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:38.519
like, yeah, we're recycling. This is made from
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.279
recycled, but you're going to have to pay $2
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.859
.99 more for this Lego set than you would if
00:31:42.859 --> 00:31:45.880
we just did it how we did it before. And from
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.640
my understanding, and we'll just put it this
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:49.700
way. We're probably going to have to cut it out
00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:51.880
anyway. This is just talking. Just because I
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:54.539
don't really know, but from my understanding.
00:31:55.670 --> 00:31:57.890
all of the sustainable products that they're
00:31:57.890 --> 00:32:01.250
buying are more expensive. Right. And yet they
00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:03.930
are not raising the price to the consumers. I
00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:05.950
think, and this is a thing. Then it's like, are
00:32:05.950 --> 00:32:08.609
they lowering other costs? No, they're just,
00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:11.789
they're eating it. Oh. That's my understanding.
00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:14.589
I mean, Lego can. Yeah. I don't know if that's
00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:15.910
fact, though, so I'm going to have to double
00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:17.750
check that before we actually keep it in the
00:32:17.750 --> 00:32:19.890
episode because I don't know. I don't know either.
00:32:20.069 --> 00:32:22.289
I know enough about Lego to be dangerous. We're
00:32:22.289 --> 00:32:25.920
just guessing on why. Yeah. why they would, why
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:28.019
some companies would do it and some wouldn't.
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.460
I mean, I guess some people care if it's stamped
00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:32.559
on that this is from recycled. Can't they just
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:36.220
lie? They can't. That's the whole greenwashing
00:32:36.220 --> 00:32:37.680
thing. Yeah, like can't they just say... That's
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.059
like all this stuff they're getting from Asia
00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:42.400
that says 100 % PCR. This stuff looks like perfect,
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:46.160
brand new, off the production line version material
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:51.519
because that's probably what it is. We need to
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.400
be supporting domestic. The answer to why is
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:58.519
just a little selfish. I feel like that's the
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.799
answer. Yeah, I think the... Or it's just they
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:09.259
just think more so in like... You know when people
00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:12.180
are like, it's not personal, it's business. Yeah,
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.279
I hate that. I feel like they're speaking like
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.279
that. They're like, it's not personal, it's just
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.619
not a smart business decision for us. And honestly,
00:33:18.740 --> 00:33:22.440
it isn't. No, it's not. So it's like, you're
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.509
kind of like, well... They don't have like it's
00:33:25.509 --> 00:33:27.529
not it doesn't help them in any way. Like it
00:33:27.529 --> 00:33:29.029
might help somebody else. But again, like why
00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:31.109
do they care about help? Like what? Why do they?
00:33:31.329 --> 00:33:33.809
It's not making their sales drive up again. Maybe
00:33:33.809 --> 00:33:35.829
it would because then they would have that stamped
00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:39.369
actual truthful like we recycle from small businesses,
00:33:39.430 --> 00:33:41.289
blah, blah, blah. So maybe it would. But at the
00:33:41.289 --> 00:33:43.950
end of the day, like like you said, like not
00:33:43.950 --> 00:33:46.769
fact, but it's a possibility that that the end
00:33:46.769 --> 00:33:48.990
of the day is eating up the cost just to like
00:33:48.990 --> 00:33:50.849
what do somebody else a favor so their plant
00:33:50.849 --> 00:33:53.700
doesn't close. We should probably, this whole
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:55.960
conversation, we should probably get a marketing
00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:00.019
expert from packaging to come on here one day.
00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:04.160
That would be interesting. And to ask them, have
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.259
you done double blind studies with the public
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:09.840
where you've just watched them at your store
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.420
to see if they actually grabbed one product over
00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:16.760
the other? Because it's got 100 % recycled content
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.699
or whatever. I doubt it. I doubt that makes a
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:25.320
difference. Do you think that because, again,
00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:27.639
this also might be a silly question, but we're
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.340
just going to spitball everything because it's
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:35.039
interesting. Do you think that just normal customers
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.019
of, again, we're just using Lego as the conversation
00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:43.659
piece, but any manufacturer that's selling whatever.
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:46.679
Do you think that if I like you just said, like
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:48.900
a study of someone going into a store and maybe
00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:54.260
there's the same Lego spooky house set and one
00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:56.739
of them said recycled and the other didn't. And
00:34:56.739 --> 00:34:58.619
they were the same price, like literally. Do
00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:00.659
you think that the customer might think that's
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:02.739
because it's from used plastic that it wouldn't
00:35:02.739 --> 00:35:04.980
perform the same as one that had virgin plastic
00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:07.679
in it? Good question. Because I'm not going to
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.880
lie. Like if I saw something that. pretty much
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.260
like obviously i don't think it is because like
00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:14.860
this is a professional company like they know
00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:16.460
what they're doing i don't think your lego is
00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:19.440
not going to snap because it's used plastic it's
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.500
been used before right but somebody else who
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:24.519
like doesn't really know the process might be
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:27.260
like this isn't like new plastic like i'm not
00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:28.559
going to get something that might malfunction
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:32.300
i don't know i don't know if they've looked at
00:35:32.300 --> 00:35:34.289
it I can tell you. Because I wonder if that goes
00:35:34.289 --> 00:35:36.389
through somebody's head if they see recycled
00:35:36.389 --> 00:35:38.110
and then they see brand new. They're like, well,
00:35:38.110 --> 00:35:38.670
I don't really want it. They just think lower
00:35:38.670 --> 00:35:41.849
quality. Lower quality. Yeah. Plastic. It's possible.
00:35:41.909 --> 00:35:43.929
Because it's like not new. Another good reason
00:35:43.929 --> 00:35:46.090
to have a marketer on here. Like somebody that
00:35:46.090 --> 00:35:46.889
we can actually talk through all this stuff.
00:35:46.889 --> 00:35:49.250
No, that was a pretty good point. But I think
00:35:49.250 --> 00:35:53.949
if you were to ask the average American about
00:35:53.949 --> 00:35:56.929
recycled content in Legos, they probably don't
00:35:56.929 --> 00:35:58.710
even think about the fact that it's plastic when
00:35:58.710 --> 00:36:00.269
they're buying it. They probably don't think
00:36:00.269 --> 00:36:03.780
about any of that. That's not. Just common things.
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.179
Like you want to see something that will drive
00:36:07.179 --> 00:36:10.039
you insane? Go into a grocery store with me at
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:13.019
any point and look at me, look at all the packages
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:15.840
and figure out what they're made of, whether
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:17.420
or not it's going to be recyclable. Mitchell
00:36:17.420 --> 00:36:20.260
does that. Yeah. And I'm like the one person
00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:21.039
that actually cares. I'll be eating something
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:22.940
out of a container and he's like, what is this?
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.099
And he like covers it. And I'm like, can't we
00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:32.019
just snack in peace? So. The local Harris Teeter
00:36:32.019 --> 00:36:35.760
here went to these molded fiber little tubs.
00:36:36.579 --> 00:36:38.639
And they used to be. Oh, yeah. I think I know
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.239
what you're talking about. They used to be PET.
00:36:41.139 --> 00:36:47.119
And these molded fiber tubs are the worst packaging
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:51.079
design in the history of mankind. Not just because
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.719
they're not plastic. That has nothing to do with
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.719
it. It's just a poor performing product. And
00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:59.679
it probably costs three times as much. And so
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:02.159
I went up to the store manager the other day.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:05.940
I was like, I hate these. Can you go back to
00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.179
the other ones, please? I don't like buying those
00:37:08.179 --> 00:37:11.340
kind of packages anyway because that's just waste
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:14.059
and we don't need more waste. Right. We shouldn't
00:37:14.059 --> 00:37:16.400
be buying that kind of crap to begin with if
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:18.079
we really want to reduce the amount of waste
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.099
and recycling that needs to happen and all that.
00:37:20.619 --> 00:37:24.119
But if I do want to get something, like I'm going
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:25.960
on a road trip or something, I need something
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.769
for inside the truck. I'm not going to buy that
00:37:29.769 --> 00:37:32.269
because the thing is going to fail halfway through
00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:36.110
my trip. It's just garbage. Right. And so to
00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:39.369
your point. Well, if you think about like straws
00:37:39.369 --> 00:37:41.570
too, like anybody who tries to replace a plastic
00:37:41.570 --> 00:37:45.969
straw, they suck. I hate all straws, but paper
00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:50.449
straws, I just don't understand. Yeah. But anyway,
00:37:50.590 --> 00:37:53.909
to your point. So to answer the question though,
00:37:53.929 --> 00:37:55.949
do people actually pay attention or do people
00:37:55.949 --> 00:38:03.719
care? I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unless,
00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:05.960
you know, yeah, I guess you're right. Like when
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.300
you're going to the Lego store, you're not like
00:38:07.300 --> 00:38:08.880
really thinking about the plastic. Like what?
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.099
You're just buying Legos. Yeah, I think there's
00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:15.900
a small subset of the American population that
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:19.420
really cares. And those are great. We want to
00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:21.300
cultivate those people. We want those people
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:23.739
to make environmentally conscious choices. We
00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:25.820
want them to keep doing it. Those are the people
00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:28.659
that compost. Those are the people that are constantly
00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:33.639
recycling. And then there's the middle majority
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:37.440
that can take it or leave it. They'll do it every
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.239
once in a while, but they won't do it always.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.780
And then there's the obstinate group on the other
00:38:43.780 --> 00:38:47.500
end that thinks it's all a waste of time. And
00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:51.539
they just want to continue driving Hummers and
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:58.159
polluting and whatever else. I think that most
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.820
people don't really care. And I may be wrong.
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:03.260
Once again, maybe that's why we should have the
00:39:03.260 --> 00:39:05.420
marketer on here because they can tell us. But
00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:09.659
I think whenever you ask people, like if I was
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:12.760
to stop you in a group of 10 and you were in
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:17.099
a focus group and I was to ask you, do you care
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:19.780
about recycling? And the first four people said,
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.400
yes, huge deal. And you personally think it's
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:26.199
a waste of time when it gets around to you. Are
00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:27.940
you going to say it's a waste of time after you
00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:29.360
just heard those four people before you? No,
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.679
it would probably have to be like an anonymous
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.320
thing. And that's the thing. I don't know how
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.980
this stuff is studied or where it comes from.
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.619
We should look into that if there is. I'm sure
00:39:38.619 --> 00:39:40.599
there's been case studies where they put cameras
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:42.480
in a store and they put like this. There has
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:43.900
to be. Because they've done that so many times
00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:47.639
with other things. I can't put an example on
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:48.920
it now, but I've seen things where it's like
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:50.920
they'll grab this because of something that catches
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:52.739
your eye. You know, that's a huge thing. It's
00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:57.210
like, yeah. I mean, I don't know. That's very,
00:39:57.269 --> 00:40:00.670
like, that's so... I feel like also, though,
00:40:00.710 --> 00:40:04.449
that how you mentioned that container is a lot
00:40:04.449 --> 00:40:08.670
of the time when people think about plastic,
00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:13.050
like, I don't know, I'm thinking maybe something
00:40:13.050 --> 00:40:16.030
that sits and can get wet often, like a shampoo
00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:21.269
bottle, that is constantly getting wet and is
00:40:21.269 --> 00:40:24.019
sitting there for, I don't know, however... Mine
00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:25.400
lasts, I don't wash my hair often, so it's going
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:29.960
to be like probably three months. Spoiler. Yeah.
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:33.619
Anyway, you, like when you're, when I'm at the
00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:35.739
store and I'm going to buy my shampoo, I'm going
00:40:35.739 --> 00:40:38.219
to, like if I see something that's like trying
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:41.480
to steer clear of plastic, whatever, save plastic,
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:44.840
I'm like, this is going to. It's going to fail.
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:46.380
It's going to fail. Like it's going to be sitting
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:48.280
there and it's, I'm going to buy something that's
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:50.920
easiest for me. That's going to make my life
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:52.760
the easiest, whether or not it's doing good for
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.179
the environment. If I'm honest, like, I'm not
00:40:55.179 --> 00:40:57.699
going to spend money, which, like you said, it's
00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:00.099
probably a little more expensive for something
00:41:00.099 --> 00:41:03.119
to fail. And that's always what I wonder, too,
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.940
is, like, back to the straws. What's the cost
00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:11.619
to the restaurant? It's more expensive. Right.
00:41:11.659 --> 00:41:13.760
And then you're using more because I'm sitting
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:15.780
at the bar and I've gone through four paper straws
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.800
with one Aperol Spritz because they're sogging
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:22.739
up. I don't even know what that is, but it does
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:25.199
not sound appealing. An Aperol spritz? I have
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.980
no idea what that is. It's a little club soda,
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:29.239
a little bit of Aperol, and a little bit of Prosecco.
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:31.719
I couldn't even tell you what Aperol is. I used
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:34.260
to be a bartender for a long time. I have no
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:36.780
idea what that is. It's quite bitter. But anyway,
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.440
what I'm saying is that you would sit and have
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:41.739
a, I don't know, do you like a margarita? What's
00:41:41.739 --> 00:41:44.340
your... I haven't had alcohol in like seven years.
00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:46.380
Okay, you're sipping on a Diet Coke at a bar
00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:50.639
with your straw with one... Plastic straw, but
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.699
they're trying to save the environment by buying
00:41:53.699 --> 00:41:55.760
more expensive paper ones and then you as one
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:59.960
customer are using five. Yeah. So the logic here
00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:04.559
is... Let's take that same thought process. Going
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:09.940
from expanded polystyrene coffee cups to paper
00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:17.079
cups because it's recyclable. EPS cups are recyclable
00:42:17.079 --> 00:42:20.360
too. And we're doing that and we're trying to
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:23.519
expand it. But anyway, you know what product
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:28.840
didn't exist when we had foam? You know those
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.400
little ring things that go around the coffee
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.599
cup? You know how many of those we use every
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:37.820
year? You know how many times I get a cup or
00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:41.639
if I go to Starbucks and I don't have like a
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.820
reusable one that I take in, which if I do, that's
00:42:44.820 --> 00:42:47.500
what I'm doing. I don't typically go to Starbucks,
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.260
but you know how many times like if I'm out on
00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:52.500
the road, I get a coffee cup in a coffee cup
00:42:52.500 --> 00:43:00.099
with a ring. Way worse than one EPS coffee cup.
00:43:00.300 --> 00:43:04.000
Right. So it's the same logic. We're trying to
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.099
do the sustainable thing, but then we end up
00:43:06.099 --> 00:43:08.960
using three times as much material. That's all
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:10.659
going to end up in a landfill anyway. Losing
00:43:10.659 --> 00:43:13.929
money. Yeah. It makes no sense. But isn't that
00:43:13.929 --> 00:43:16.789
kind of why the big brands aren't doing it? Yeah,
00:43:16.849 --> 00:43:20.090
maybe. But then let's stop talking about it.
00:43:20.110 --> 00:43:23.150
Let's stop talking about banning products if
00:43:23.150 --> 00:43:25.949
we're not truly serious about recycling this
00:43:25.949 --> 00:43:29.449
stuff. That's where I get angry. Everybody's
00:43:29.449 --> 00:43:32.510
talking about we want more and more and more
00:43:32.510 --> 00:43:34.829
post -consumer recycled material in our packaging.
00:43:34.989 --> 00:43:38.269
I'm like, okay, great. Let's do that. Let's recycle
00:43:38.269 --> 00:43:40.449
more. Let's use more of it. But then when it
00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:41.829
comes down to it and I say it's going to cost
00:43:41.829 --> 00:43:44.739
one penny more, than what you're paying for right
00:43:44.739 --> 00:43:49.219
now. Nope. Not going to do that. And not only
00:43:49.219 --> 00:43:51.380
is it going to be one penny more, I have to buy
00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:53.800
this stuff multiple years in advance so that
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.360
way I can keep that recycler operating. Because
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.000
right now they can't reinvest because they don't
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:01.960
know if they're going to have demand six months
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:05.699
from now. And they're going to say, nope, don't
00:44:05.699 --> 00:44:09.739
want it. And that's the freaking problem. I almost.
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:13.659
That is an F -bomb there. Yeah, this is how serious
00:44:13.659 --> 00:44:16.900
I get about this because there's a lot of talk,
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:21.300
there's not a lot of action. Yeah. And have you
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:25.340
noticed that, is it like, has progressively gotten
00:44:25.340 --> 00:44:29.139
worse? No. Or have you noticed that with the
00:44:29.139 --> 00:44:32.119
market shifts, it's kind of always kind of been
00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:35.179
like that? Like, it depends how the market is
00:44:35.179 --> 00:44:39.610
with how... the brands are behaving or the when
00:44:39.610 --> 00:44:43.530
the market's booming people are more likely to
00:44:43.530 --> 00:44:45.909
invest in these kind of projects because like
00:44:45.909 --> 00:44:48.150
right now which makes sense they're all dying
00:44:48.150 --> 00:44:50.389
like all these projects are going away because
00:44:50.389 --> 00:44:54.289
they're not economically as appealing as they
00:44:54.289 --> 00:44:58.070
once were so when you mentioned like having a
00:44:58.070 --> 00:45:01.769
contract with a big brand are prices in the in
00:45:01.769 --> 00:45:03.630
that contract there's got to be some kind of
00:45:03.630 --> 00:45:07.880
a floor mechanism okay okay So let's just play
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:12.000
an example here. Let's say Direct Polymers wants
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.320
to go start collecting, I don't know, cardboard.
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:18.420
We'll even talk cardboard. We won't even talk
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:24.260
about plastic. For Georgia Pacific. Okay. Because
00:45:24.260 --> 00:45:27.079
they're a paper cardboard manufacturer or whatever.
00:45:27.219 --> 00:45:29.380
They make paper cups and make a lot of different
00:45:29.380 --> 00:45:35.960
stuff. In the 90s and early 2000s. the paper
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.800
industry realized they were in trouble. They
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:41.000
were going to get banned out of existence because
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:42.840
everybody was worried about the rainforest going
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:48.679
away. And so they invested a lot of money and
00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:51.980
a lot of time and a lot of effort to change the
00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:55.820
narrative around their products. And they realized
00:45:55.820 --> 00:45:58.780
the only way people were going to recycle more
00:45:58.780 --> 00:46:04.139
paper, or cardboard in this case, or OCC, or
00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:06.619
old corrugated containers, all the same thing
00:46:06.619 --> 00:46:09.719
that I'm talking about here, they would have
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.579
to guarantee that recycler that that material
00:46:13.579 --> 00:46:17.199
was going to be purchased at enough of a price
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.679
point that they were going to make enough margin
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.679
to survive. Now, if the market went up, you have
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:26.800
to pay more. But when it gets down low, you have
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.940
to pay at least the minimum just to keep them
00:46:29.940 --> 00:46:33.409
operating. And they did 25 -year contracts. And
00:46:33.409 --> 00:46:37.849
that's why that system works today. It didn't
00:46:37.849 --> 00:46:40.670
work for a long time, but it does now. That's
00:46:40.670 --> 00:46:42.909
the kind of stuff that we have to do. But we
00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:46.449
need the brands to be involved because let's
00:46:46.449 --> 00:46:50.429
just say a resin manufacturer wants to start
00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:55.090
blending in PCR content. They go to direct polymers
00:46:55.090 --> 00:46:59.489
and they say, I want you to collect four rail
00:46:59.489 --> 00:47:02.159
cars a month. of PCR. I don't care where you
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.739
get it, just make sure it hits this spec. So
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:08.079
then Direct Polymers goes out and finds four
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:10.539
rail cars per month worth of material to match
00:47:10.539 --> 00:47:13.579
that demand. They're going to have to contract
00:47:13.579 --> 00:47:17.780
with the source. When you get that material,
00:47:18.099 --> 00:47:21.119
you go through all the process, we make the blended
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.059
product, it gets to the resin producer, they
00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:26.199
go to sell it to the brand, and the brand's like,
00:47:26.260 --> 00:47:31.989
well, you know, virgin prices went down. So we're
00:47:31.989 --> 00:47:33.989
not going to go forward with this project anymore.
00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:39.170
What does everybody do at that point? And that's
00:47:39.170 --> 00:47:41.489
when people go bankrupt. And that's what's happening
00:47:41.489 --> 00:47:44.789
over and over and over again. Did they have,
00:47:44.909 --> 00:47:48.530
in that scenario, did they have a contract? You
00:47:48.530 --> 00:47:51.170
never get a contract with the big brand. Because
00:47:51.170 --> 00:47:55.050
they're not actually supporting the system. And
00:47:55.050 --> 00:47:56.989
I'm going to get in trouble with saying a lot
00:47:56.989 --> 00:47:59.250
of this stuff with some of these brands. I don't
00:47:59.250 --> 00:48:02.619
care. Well, you're not named. I know, but honestly,
00:48:02.860 --> 00:48:06.440
big consumer packaging good companies need to
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.780
own this. And I'm sick of it. I'm sick of people
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:11.920
saying that they're going to do it. And then
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:15.079
when it comes down to it, they don't do it. And
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:17.980
I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of the hypocrisy.
00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:20.699
Either you're going to do it or you're not. Either
00:48:20.699 --> 00:48:22.940
you're going to support the industry and help
00:48:22.940 --> 00:48:25.280
these people survive and give them long -term
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:28.170
contracts or you don't care. Yeah. And I feel
00:48:28.170 --> 00:48:30.389
like it's almost worse to commit and then drop
00:48:30.389 --> 00:48:32.309
out than just saying I'm not going to do it.
00:48:32.329 --> 00:48:34.769
Especially for small companies. Like just say
00:48:34.769 --> 00:48:38.429
no. Yeah. I'd rather say no than do all the work
00:48:38.429 --> 00:48:40.809
of getting the rail cars. And then you're like,
00:48:40.829 --> 00:48:44.210
no. And you're like, what? I've worked on projects
00:48:44.210 --> 00:48:47.829
for two plus years for brand and then have it
00:48:47.829 --> 00:48:52.590
just fall apart in the last hurdle. That's super
00:48:52.590 --> 00:48:54.880
frustrating. It happens all the time. You know
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:56.719
how many recyclers I can talk to that'll tell
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:59.980
you the exact same story? Mm -hmm. It's just
00:48:59.980 --> 00:49:00.900
constant. Yeah, that's really unfortunate. But
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:03.340
those guys don't want to throw shade at the big
00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:05.840
brands because they're worried because they need
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:09.199
to curry favor. And the big brands are bigger
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:10.460
than all of them. Yeah, and I don't care. So
00:49:10.460 --> 00:49:13.719
no matter, like I said earlier, like, no, no,
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:16.940
I mean like. they don't care if they disappoint
00:49:16.940 --> 00:49:19.480
you because you're not going to end them yeah
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:22.900
nobody cares so it's like you can't not you specifically
00:49:22.900 --> 00:49:26.199
but the person who got screwed over in the deal
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:28.360
or the facility got screwed over they can be
00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:30.659
like oh they did this like okay they're still
00:49:30.659 --> 00:49:33.980
gonna like there's not that you're one of a million
00:49:33.980 --> 00:49:36.039
probably who doesn't like that brand so it's
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.480
like who care they don't care no one like people
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.360
might care but a lot of times they're like okay
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:43.730
great they f'd you over well I'm still going
00:49:43.730 --> 00:49:45.630
to buy their shampoo or I'm still going to buy
00:49:45.630 --> 00:49:47.650
this. Like they don't really, they're Legos.
00:49:47.650 --> 00:49:50.070
I'm still going to buy whatever it is that they
00:49:50.070 --> 00:49:53.250
are doing. But a lot of times they just. Shampoo.
00:49:53.670 --> 00:49:55.809
We'll just run down your example there. Okay.
00:49:55.989 --> 00:50:01.369
If whoever a big shampoo company is comes to
00:50:01.369 --> 00:50:04.730
their packaging company and say, I'm going to
00:50:04.730 --> 00:50:09.110
make every one of my bottles 100 % HDPE recycled
00:50:09.110 --> 00:50:14.260
content. You know how quickly? The demand would
00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:17.679
be lined out if there was a contract behind that
00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:20.159
saying, I'm going to buy it for the next 20 years.
00:50:20.539 --> 00:50:23.440
And then that packaging company has to go talk
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:27.119
to recyclers and say, I need you to get every
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.400
pound of this stuff that you can. You know how
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.059
much material would get diverted from a landfill
00:50:31.059 --> 00:50:34.920
if that happened? How impactful that would be
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.900
if people actually committed to this instead
00:50:37.900 --> 00:50:41.590
of saying they commit to it. Because if there's
00:50:41.590 --> 00:50:47.110
an economic driver, if there is commitment, people
00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:48.849
are going to invest. People are going to invest
00:50:48.849 --> 00:50:51.309
to go find that stuff. Without it, they're not
00:50:51.309 --> 00:50:55.989
going to. It's just the same argument for 30
00:50:55.989 --> 00:51:01.369
years. Is there proof to back that up? Yeah.
00:51:01.489 --> 00:51:05.230
Paper industry. Just point at it right now. That's
00:51:05.230 --> 00:51:08.349
exactly what happened. Honestly, I've been saying
00:51:08.349 --> 00:51:13.920
for a while. Plastics is under the same amount
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.019
of pressure right now that paper was 30 years
00:51:17.019 --> 00:51:21.400
ago. Paper came together as an industry. They
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:25.380
invested time, money, and effort to solve their
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:28.800
problem. Plastics has to do the same. And if
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:31.300
we don't, and that goes all the way to the brands,
00:51:31.579 --> 00:51:36.559
if we don't, it's just going to keep going the
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:39.159
same direction it's going. And we're never going
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:41.159
to get better at recycling plastics in this country.
00:51:43.139 --> 00:51:45.579
So you can't have it both ways. You got to commit
00:51:45.579 --> 00:51:47.920
to pay for it. You got to commit for it to be
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:49.539
an end market because we can't ship this stuff
00:51:49.539 --> 00:51:52.579
to China. National sword, you can't ship it to
00:51:52.579 --> 00:51:54.559
Malaysia. If you look at the Basel Convention,
00:51:54.820 --> 00:51:56.860
there's a lot of reasons why you shouldn't, even
00:51:56.860 --> 00:52:00.099
if the U .S. didn't sign up. We can't ship our
00:52:00.099 --> 00:52:03.679
waste overseas. And we shouldn't be. We should
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:06.519
be reusing this stuff. But we need somebody to
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.599
buy it. We need somebody to commit to buy it.
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:10.519
Otherwise, it's just going to be a waste of time,
00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:13.670
money, and effort. Which is why, back to the
00:52:13.670 --> 00:52:17.429
EPR discussion, if California collects three
00:52:17.429 --> 00:52:19.769
times as much plastics next year as it does this
00:52:19.769 --> 00:52:22.769
year, but there's not three times as many people
00:52:22.769 --> 00:52:25.409
willing to buy, what are we going to do with
00:52:25.409 --> 00:52:30.090
all that plastic you just collected? Right. Or
00:52:30.090 --> 00:52:35.650
paper or glass. Just in general. Recycling works
00:52:35.650 --> 00:52:38.010
if people pay for the recycled content at the
00:52:38.010 --> 00:52:40.710
back end. It doesn't work unless you commit for
00:52:40.710 --> 00:52:49.840
it. Simple facts. And I can get pretty animated
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:52.139
about this stuff. No, I mean, it's passionate.
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:54.579
I live it. I think that's good. Yeah. I think,
00:52:54.579 --> 00:53:00.780
though, the why is kind of, like, up in the air.
00:53:01.780 --> 00:53:07.420
But I think we did get a lot of whys. Possible
00:53:07.420 --> 00:53:11.099
whys. Yeah. You know? And it's interesting. I
00:53:11.099 --> 00:53:14.289
would love to see... Do a little research on
00:53:14.289 --> 00:53:19.329
if there are any case studies done. That would
00:53:19.329 --> 00:53:21.010
be interesting. That's something we'll have to
00:53:21.010 --> 00:53:24.710
look into. I got a couple marketers in mind that
00:53:24.710 --> 00:53:27.309
we can talk to. That would be interesting. See
00:53:27.309 --> 00:53:30.349
if I can convince their company to let them talk
00:53:30.349 --> 00:53:32.670
openly. You should just have the black screen
00:53:32.670 --> 00:53:34.909
and then change their voice. Change their voice.
00:53:35.070 --> 00:53:38.829
That would be drama. Yeah. In Witness Protection
00:53:38.829 --> 00:53:47.460
Program, our guest. Honestly, I think just to
00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:52.340
put a bow on this whole topic, not a lot of people
00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:54.980
are going to call out the big brands and the
00:53:54.980 --> 00:54:00.739
CPGs because they need their business. If you're
00:54:00.739 --> 00:54:04.639
a virgin resin manufacturer or paper manufacturer
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:10.360
or whatever, they drive the economy. And if you're
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.420
not nice to them, or tell them that everything
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:18.380
they do is wonderful, you're worried that you're
00:54:18.380 --> 00:54:22.699
going to lose business. I'll throw, this isn't
00:54:22.699 --> 00:54:25.559
a brand, but like Walmart, the amount of people
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:28.880
that will do anything Walmart tells them to do
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:34.280
because of how big Walmart is and how much money
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.860
flows to be there, they will do and jump through
00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:39.980
every hoop that Walmart puts in front of them.
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:44.539
guy down the street. Right. But they're going
00:54:44.539 --> 00:54:47.440
to do it for Walmart. Well, yeah. So people are
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:49.480
worried about calling out brands. And I get it.
00:54:49.900 --> 00:54:53.519
I completely get it. Luckily, I'm not selling
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:56.280
them anything. So I can say what I want. Yeah.
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.539
And people, and I'd love to talk to other people
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:03.300
about it that maybe would disagree with everything
00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:07.059
that we talked about here. But I would love for
00:55:07.059 --> 00:55:10.559
somebody to tell me how I'm wrong. And then we
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:13.650
can have a real discussion about. solving this
00:55:13.650 --> 00:55:16.010
problem. I feel like I challenged you a little
00:55:16.010 --> 00:55:19.210
bit on some points. Yeah. It's not because of
00:55:19.210 --> 00:55:20.829
my beliefs, because I want to keep this interesting.
00:55:21.110 --> 00:55:24.750
I like playing the devil's advocate. That's typically
00:55:24.750 --> 00:55:32.190
my job. But yeah. So, what about our two truths
00:55:32.190 --> 00:55:35.690
and a lie? Should I read them one more time in
00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:36.789
case they were missed? Yeah, read them one more
00:55:36.789 --> 00:55:38.610
time and then let's talk about the one that's...
00:55:38.610 --> 00:55:43.320
Okay. So... By the way, everybody, we were using
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.320
Lego as an example. We have no affiliation with
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:48.000
the brand. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anybody there.
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:50.400
I'm not helpful in any way, shape, or form. It
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:51.679
just came up multiple times. But Lego, if you
00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:55.199
need any plastic. Yeah. If you need recycled
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:59.039
plastic, reach out to Brave. Okay. Anyway, so
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:02.179
three facts. One of them is a lie. Number one,
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:04.300
Lego announced they're ditching their recycled
00:56:04.300 --> 00:56:07.519
PET brick prototype, saying it actually had a
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.000
higher carbon footprint than their current oil
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.719
-based AB8. ABS bricks. Secondly, Beyonce just
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:17.119
became the first female artist to have a number
00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:20.579
one album in the U .S. in five consecutive decades
00:56:20.579 --> 00:56:26.019
from the 90s through the 2020s. Last, NASA recently
00:56:26.019 --> 00:56:29.260
confirmed that asteroid Bennu contains high concentrations
00:56:29.260 --> 00:56:32.320
of gold, making it one of the most valuable space
00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:35.820
samples ever collected. I think it's the NASA
00:56:35.820 --> 00:56:37.980
thing. That's my guess. Do you want to guess
00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:41.099
what the lie, like part why is that a lie? What's
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:43.559
the lie? It's not gold. It's something else that
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:47.000
they found on. Just kidding. I don't know. Platinum.
00:56:47.260 --> 00:56:51.579
No. It is a lie. And the samples just contain
00:56:51.579 --> 00:56:55.480
water and carbon. No gold. Water and carbon.
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.960
But that's like, I wouldn't believe that for
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:00.719
sure. You could have told me that. I'd believe
00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:05.360
anything. But the five decades thing, that's
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:07.500
kind of catching me off guard. Because that would
00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:10.829
make it seem like Beyonce's 70. Right now. If
00:57:10.829 --> 00:57:12.989
I think about it logically, it's like five decades,
00:57:13.150 --> 00:57:16.070
50 years. Like she's not even 50. How does that
00:57:16.070 --> 00:57:20.349
work? But then you think 99 maybe and then 2021
00:57:20.349 --> 00:57:24.349
would be another decade. I don't know. Hold on.
00:57:24.389 --> 00:57:27.610
I want to see something quickly. And then I already
00:57:27.610 --> 00:57:31.230
know about the other one. Okay. They were pretty
00:57:31.230 --> 00:57:33.329
public about the fact they were ditching the
00:57:33.329 --> 00:57:36.989
PET brick. Five consecutive decades. So technically
00:57:36.989 --> 00:57:45.519
it was 23. 6, 8, 11, 13, 16, 22, 24. Pretty impressive.
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.380
So, not 90s, I guess. I don't like any of that
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:53.579
music, but I'm not her target dynamic or target
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:55.539
audience. We have better things to talk about
00:57:55.539 --> 00:57:58.119
than Beyonce. I'm listening to classic rock.
00:57:58.340 --> 00:58:03.920
I'm like the oldest millennial ever. But, yeah,
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:06.539
we'll do those all the time. Yeah. That'll be
00:58:06.539 --> 00:58:09.590
fun. Honestly, this was a good... Discussion.
00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:12.250
You think so? It's always interesting when the
00:58:12.250 --> 00:58:13.929
two of us get together and we talk about whatever
00:58:13.929 --> 00:58:16.489
the heck we want to talk about. Honestly. This
00:58:16.489 --> 00:58:19.070
one was a little challenging for me. Yeah. At
00:58:19.070 --> 00:58:23.070
the beginning, I started getting thinking a little
00:58:23.070 --> 00:58:26.130
harder, I feel like, as we went on. I think the
00:58:26.130 --> 00:58:27.789
next one. At the beginning, I was very lost on
00:58:27.789 --> 00:58:31.250
how I didn't know the answer. Well, I don't think
00:58:31.250 --> 00:58:33.429
anybody really knows the answers to any of this
00:58:33.429 --> 00:58:35.969
stuff. So that's the other thing, too. It's like.
00:58:36.380 --> 00:58:38.440
The more you talk to people and the more you're
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:41.340
around other recyclers and you hear the struggles
00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:43.679
that they're having and what they need in order
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.280
to solve it, the more you'll make up your mind
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:48.659
on kind of what's the right thing to do here.
00:58:49.619 --> 00:58:53.079
And that's the only way to do this. And so we'll
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:55.320
continue to do this. We'll go through the list
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.300
of questions. We will definitely not take the
00:58:59.300 --> 00:59:01.199
advice from the one guy that thought he knew
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:05.449
better than everybody else. But anyway, I want
00:59:05.449 --> 00:59:08.349
you to do the outro. So this is all you. This
00:59:08.349 --> 00:59:12.829
is Sam's episode today. Okay, guys. This has
00:59:12.829 --> 00:59:16.849
been the Redefining Plastics podcast with Samantha
00:59:16.849 --> 00:59:22.090
Ryan and Justin Riney. Tune in and we hope you
00:59:22.090 --> 00:59:24.650
enjoyed this episode. And we have a lot of really
00:59:24.650 --> 00:59:26.230
exciting things coming up we're going to talk
00:59:26.230 --> 00:59:28.050
about. And the podcast is going to be a little
00:59:28.050 --> 00:59:31.730
different and hopefully in the best way. Have
00:59:31.730 --> 00:59:33.349
a great rest of your evening or your morning
00:59:33.349 --> 00:59:35.550
or whenever you're listening to this, and we'll
00:59:35.550 --> 00:59:38.929
talk to you next week. Bye. Perfect. If you want
00:59:38.929 --> 00:59:41.630
to learn more about the plastics industry, recycling,
00:59:41.969 --> 00:59:44.929
check out these other videos. Please like and
00:59:44.929 --> 00:59:45.309
subscribe.