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Welcome to the Redeemer Network Podcast, where we talk church planning, church health, and multiplying churches for the sake of the gospel.
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To learn more about the Redeemer Network, visit RedeemerNetwork.org.
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All right.
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Well, welcome back to the Redeemer Network Podcast.
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This season we're talking about what we do as a network.
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We have three priorities as a network training, funding, and support.
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And in our previous episodes, we've discussed how we train leaders for both church planting and church renewal.
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And today we're going to talk about everyone's favorite topic: funding.
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Uh, my hope for this episode is um is to make this more entertaining than your typical church finance team budget meeting.
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And so that's why I've brought on two big time guests today.
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I'm joined by Brandon Barker and Josh Treeves.
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Welcome, guys.
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Thanks.
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Well, good to be glad to be here.
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I'll just introduce you.
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Brandon is the executive director of the Redeemer Network.
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Before jumping in and serving the network, he served in pastoral ministry for 16 years and still in many ways is serving in pastoral ministry, is serving helping uh with Redeemer Georgetown and providing some leadership there.
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And then Josh Treeves is the uh partner and content director for Church Biz, and he was the founding pastor of Redeemer Groundrock.
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And so served on staff as a pastor from our start in 2011 to 2022, served as a lay elder and still hanging around as a partner.
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Still here.
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And so thankful for that.
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Um, so before we jump into this conversation today about funding, uh, I was thinking about this this morning.
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There's a lot of really exciting stuff going on right now.
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We've got, at the time that we're recording this, we've got a uh um a hub training, a retreat for our residents this weekend.
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We'll be training them on uh Missional Church.
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Excited about that.
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We've got an assessment conference coming up for some of our soon-to-be church planners that we're sending out.
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Um, I've heard a rumor.
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I don't know if this is true.
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Maybe producer Kyler can verify this, but I think there's a Redeemer Network music project in the works right now.
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There is.
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Okay, Kyler says yeah, that's exciting.
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Our conference is coming up in the fall and plans are in place.
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So just a lot of exciting stuff.
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School's out for the summer, NBA playoffs are happening right now.
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It's a good time.
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So I thought we could start this way.
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Um, what's got you guys excited right now?
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What's going on?
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Can I jump in first?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So uh I was excited about your original icebreaker, uh, which was 95 Rockets uh versus 26 Spurs.
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Yeah.
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We'll save that for another day or maybe later if this crashes and we need something to pick it up.
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Uh I'm excited about all the things you just mentioned.
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Um we have our assessment next week.
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I love that time.
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We're doing our first retreat as part of a residency as we pivot part of our training this year uh over the next couple of days.
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Excited about that.
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Uh the music project, uh, one of the things that's been really fun to watch.
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I know you've got a separate episode.
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I don't know if you've recorded that yet or you're about to.
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Uh one of the things that's been really fun to watch is a lot of our churches start writing their own music.
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And it seemed like this is something the that the Lord is stirring in our churches.
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And we went, okay, how do we how can we be a part of that and really kind of organize it a bit and put some resource behind it?
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I would, I would, I would love for the day to get here when we're at our conference singing all redeemer music, um, songs by Redeemer Churches, for Redeemer Churches.
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Uh, there that'd be a lot of fun.
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But uh, if we're talking about what what's got us excited today, uh, it's my anniversary, and so I cannot pass up on that one.
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Uh 21 years today.
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I would put the ball on the tee for you right there.
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Good job.
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You did.
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Amanda, I love you.
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Happy anniversary.
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If she's listening to a podcast on funding, she is not.
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Josh, what about you?
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Yeah, well, uh, I mean, I'm excited about all that going on with Redeemer Network.
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Personally, uh, I just married our oldest daughter last week, got her married, and uh did that wedding.
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So that was uh that was exciting.
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And my wife just graduated from uh UT nursing school.
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So sorry to all our tech fans that she went to UT, but you know, it was close.
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So we're excited about that.
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Yeah, good stuff, man.
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A lot to celebrate.
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All right.
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Well, so we'll start here.
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I was telling my wife that I was recording a podcast episode today on church funding, and she literally laughed out loud at me.
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Um, not sure anybody's gonna be that interested in this, was her take.
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Um, but church funding is no joke.
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That's that's a reason that it's one of our three priorities.
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We train, we fund, we support.
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Um, if we're going to fulfill our mission as a network to advance the gospel through multiplying healthy churches, we need uh good thinking and good strategy on funding.
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Churches mission needs money.
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We we need resources.
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So, Brandon, I'll come with you to come here to you.
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We'll start there.
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Why why is why is funding so critical to our mission as a network?
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Yeah, so let me answer that from two sides.
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Let me answer that from the side of the church or sending church or sending churches and then the planter.
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Uh from the the side of the the sending church, I I would say this to answer that question, we've got to back up and ask this question why do we plant churches?
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Why do we do this?
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Why do we fund church multiplication, the the planting and the renewing of churches?
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Why do we do that?
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Um and to to take from Tim Keller, who we've all learned from, learned so much from, uh, Tim would say this, or he said this in 2015 uh that church planting is the best strategy we have for reaching new men, women, children, unchurched people, non-Christians with the gospel.
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He would say that new church plants on average reach three to six times or three to six times more likely to reach new people than existing churches.
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Um and so church planting at its core is an evangelistic missionary endeavor, uh, and it's the best shot we have at reaching new men, women, children.
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Not the only shot, but the best shot.
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And then uh and then the other side is what he said is that it's the it's the best thing we have to see existing churches renewed, strengthened.
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All of us want to see all of our people bought into the mission of God.
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The best way to lead people deeper into the mission of God and see their lives lived out on mission is to model it by multiplying churches and church planting um in your church.
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And so if you're leading an established church, uh the best way you can get your people on mission is to plant a church.
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Uh and then to the church planner.
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On the church planner side, I'd say this we we want our planners to be missionaries.
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Uh we we we don't want to to fund everything, and I know we're gonna get to our funding model in a minute.
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We're not trying to fund the entirety of a church plant.
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We do want to get them first, second base so that they're freed up to not just only be pursuing resources, but to get out and be a missionary, to engage and do that on the ground hard work of reaching men, women, children, evangelizing a community, uh, to get out there and to be uh to be missionaries.
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Yeah, so I hear I hear the just even the biblical mission missional mandate there of why we plant churches and then and then church planners need time, they need resources in order to do the work.
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And funding is part of not only resourcing them for the actual cost, but also freeing up time for the work of ministry, the work of mission, um, especially in those early days.
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Josh, I'll come to you and and and you know, you have the perspective here of both the church planner, but also the work that you do with church biz.
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And so maybe if you want to throw your church biz hat on, even talk a little bit about what church biz is and what what you do there, feel free to do that.
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But help us think about that a little bit.
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Like how do we think about mission and money and and the kingdom of God and the need for resources?
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Yeah, well, I think you know, one thing planters need to know and be courageous about is teaching on money and having a solid theology.
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It is a theological issue.
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And so the Bible talks a ton about money and stewardship.
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And so um, when you when it comes to funding, sometimes maybe that can feel like a sensitive issue to go and ask people to support the work that you're doing or even an existing church just regularly talking about giving.
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But it really is a theological issue that planters and pastors need to address because for one, people aren't neutral on money.
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People have been formed by culture, people have been formed by maybe what they've seen on TBN or prosperity gospel teachings on money.
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And so I a lot of times, you know, especially planters, you're you're meeting new people, you're trying to, you know, you don't want people to think that you've come to this place to ask for their money or whatever it is.
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Um, but but you know you're aware that there's some bad teaching on money and that people are skeptical.
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And so I think it's important for planters to establish their own theology and then to unashamedly teach what the Bible teaches on generosity.
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And so um, if you're gonna talk about funding, you have to talk about having a solid theology of giving.
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Um, and so you know, don't avoid teaching, uh, but teach on giving and really from day one.
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And even it might even start with teaching yourself so you can become comfortable with asking people to support what you're doing in your in your church plant.
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That's really good.
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I'll tap in on that for a second.
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My friend Craig Parrish, he was actually on an episode uh last season.
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Uh he as executive pastor at Livingstone Church in Reno, Nevada, but he he I was talking with him and he was telling me about some stuff that they were doing at their church, and he said, Here's one of the things I realized is that everybody has a story with money.
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Pastors have a story with money, and then churches have a story with money, the way that even historically they've either talked about or not talked about money.
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And being able to first and foremost, just even as a pastor, what is my story with money?
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What are my hang-ups and hiccups when it comes to money?
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And then how does the gospel speak to those?
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How does the Bible really reshape my own story with money so that I can then think well about stewardship and generosity?
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Yeah.
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That's good.
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Because we I mean, we we came from a strand of the church that you know didn't want to talk about money.
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It was reacting to a generation before or to TBN and said, let's not talk about money, let's just be taught on.
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Yeah, if if you don't talk about it and teach on it, then people's assumptions are gonna remain unchallenged and they're gonna be undiscipled in that.
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And so I always encourage really planters and pastors from day one, you know, in your gathering, how are you gonna focus on giving?
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How are you gonna highlight that, make it a part of your worship in your discipleship?
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What is that gonna look like?
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Maybe it's not, you know, obviously every lesson is gonna be about giving, but at some point in the year, you should probably address that.
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Um, even if you're starting off with just a core team of eight to twelve people, having that core team know your theology of giving and that that they can practice that and then also pass that on uh is important.
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So yeah, so we've talked a little bit about the need for funding for the sake of the mission.
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Also just biblically, I mean, we see it all over the Bible that you see, um, you see in in the New Testament, so the first century churches were supporting each other, get money being sent from one church to support the other church.
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Um you see people bringing their resources that they have, selling their possessions, bringing their resources to meet the needs of the church, um, uh money as giving money as both worship, an act of worship, and giving money as a fuel catalyst to mission.
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So uh certainly biblically uh we know this is important and it's important for the church to support for the kingdom.
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Josh, um, I'd love to hear a little bit just kind of your experience as a church planter.
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So if you could go back to 2010 when you were starting to build a core team in Lubbock, uh to 2011 when you moved to Round Rock and then in even into 2012 as we were starting launching this church here, um, what was that experience like for you as a church planter, knowing that you needed funding and kind of trying to figure out how do we fundraise?
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And the Redeemer Network didn't exist yet then.
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So there weren't the structures, the funding model that we'll talk about in a minute.
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Like just what was that experience like for you?
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What what'd you learn?
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What do you take away from that season?
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Yeah, we we weren't quite in the wild west of church planning.
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That might have been a few years before us, but it was still before there were residencies, before there were, you know, just resources out there, there wasn't PCO giving out there that made everything easy.
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And so uh it was there was a lot of learning that I had to do, a lot of getting out there and figuring it out on my own.
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Um, and and so uh while Redeemer Lubbock was incredibly helpful as a sending church, there was there was just a ton of things I had to get out there and just figure out from even thinking about, okay, now that I'm gonna start a church, what is you know, what does that mean with the government?
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Like, so it obviously is not gonna come into my bank account.
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So I've got to get a bank account.
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Well, how do you do that?
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What are the steps to doing that?
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And then, you know, thinking about, well, okay, now uh how do I ask people for support?
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And that led to you know getting an online giving platform.
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I don't even remember what it was.
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I know it wasn't anything like what we have today.
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I think I recall something about like Josh Reeves' ministries.
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Okay, yes, yeah.
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That was a mistake.
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Uh I will say this if you're setting up your church for the IRS, know that whatever name you start with, it never goes away.
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So even uh okay, don't put your name on on your 501c3.
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That was less I can't say this wasn't the Wild West and have Josh Reese Ministry.
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That was, you know, I I had a free CPA at that time, and that's what you get with free, you know, no not to plug church biz, but we that was a free volunteer CPA, and he decided I'm just gonna since I couldn't get him a church name yet, he just named it Josh Reese Ministry.
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So uh that was quite fun, you know.
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Don't do that.
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That's a little thankfully there was enough trust with most of my donors that they could still see the, you know, where that was going.
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But yeah, that was that was fun.
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So so those are just there's just a lot of administrative things that even need to go into before you can even start receiving support back then.
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And so um that that was part of it.
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And then just uh we were thankfully we had an incredibly generous sending church, Redeemer Lubbock.
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Um, should I say what they sent us with?
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Is that is that okay?
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I mean, I think they funded us 150,000 over three years.
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Uh it was like 75, 50, and 25.
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And so part of my approach too was to build a five-year budget towards self-sufficiency in the church.
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And so we kind of took that funding and knew what we had from there and from other supporters and and made a budget to hope by year five to be fully self-supported.
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So so there was a lot of just learning and figuring things out.
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Um, wasn't quite the abundance of resources that there are now, or obviously the Redeemer Network, which can, you know, can help a ton in fundraising.
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So yeah, that was that was a little bit of our experience, but it was honestly, it was good for me.
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Uh, it was, you know, I didn't foresee at that point that later in my career I would be helping churches with stewardship, like in church biz.
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So uh it really helped me at Redeemer and helped set us up for success, figuring all that out.
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And then uh, but but it's not necessarily the path I would recommend um for for planters today.
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There's so many more resources out there.
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So yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, you you did such a great job uh early on um with all of that, uh, even even with it being called Josh Reeves Ministries at first, but you know, you did such a great job that set us up even to have such a strong uh foundation as we were planting this church.
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And we you had a you know, we had a very generous sending church that funded uh well, but that's not always the case.
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That's not always the story, you know.
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I mean, a lot of times there's hey, I want to plant a church and I've got a vision and I'm ready to go do evangelism and I'm ready to I'm ready to go get after it, but uh well, don't really have a sending church that's giving me very much money.
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They maybe don't have much money to give, or I don't know what to do.
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And you know, there's the old story of like church planners that are calling their grandma, asking for grandma money to help start their church, and they're calling all their relatives and all their old high school buddies and anybody that they can to try and get money.
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And not that that's bad.
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I mean, God is using not only grandma prayers but grandma money to find a lot of kingdom impact.
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So that's not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but um, that's not always the best way to introduce your new church to all of your friends and family and people that you're trying to reach is hey, we need your money.
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And so that is the beauty of a network that is doing funding and is that it can help a church planner start this process, start on first base, start on second base when it comes to when it comes to um having uh financial health.
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And so I want what I want to do is I want to talk now kind of about our funding model.
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Like what is our funding model as as the network.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.519
So, Brandon, we'll come to you here.
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:40.320
When we say we fund church multiplication, what does that mean?
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.120
Yeah.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.200
So let me add a word to what you just said.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.960
Uh, I think you said we've we fund uh church planters.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.519
Uh it's that we fund all of them.
00:16:51.759 --> 00:17:03.440
Uh and what where that matters is you're right, there's a lot of guys who have a vision, have a pat and the Lord's calling to go plant a church, but they're not coming from a redeemer levick, uh, where praise God they could give$150,000.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.039
There are churches who go, I'm all in, Jordan.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.200
I'm all in with you planting a church.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.440
We're losing money month over month.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.000
I can send you some people, and that's gonna hurt us.
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.240
And they can't send money.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.480
And so our funding model uh is that we have directly funded our churches.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.720
It started out at 60,000 and then it got to 70, and then 80, and then 85.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.359
Uh, and that's a direct funding, it's not a loan.
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.039
We're not asking to pay back the loan.
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:35.359
Our churches do uh contribute back to Redeemer Network, uh, but it's not paying back a loan where we're tracking that.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:45.680
It's uh they've received the the gift of resourcing from our churches, and then they plant and then they participate in resourcing future church plants.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:51.039
Uh so our churches give four percent uh of their internal giving uh to Redeemer Network.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.359
That goes to help fund future church plants.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:18:02.880
Uh and then we also have people outside of the network who believe in what we're doing, who want to participate in what we're doing, call the multipliers uh who are supporting the work of uh of Redeemer Network.
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.640
And and we do want them on second base.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.880
We want all of our planters on second base uh when they're starting down this road.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:17.519
Uh and so it's not just I get money because I'm from a large church or I don't have money because I'm from a small church, uh, but by pooling our money together, we're collectively funding together.
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.480
And then the sending church or other churches can directly support our planters as well.
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.200
But our our hope isn't to just fully fund a church plant where they're not having to do anything.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:34.720
Uh, we want uh kind of one bucket of the the funds for our churches to come directly from the network.
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:45.440
Uh we want one bucket to come from the people that they're reaching and uh the core team they're developing, and then we want one bucket to come from them doing the hard work of fundraising outside of both groups.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.079
Uh fundraising for a church planter is one of the best places where they can cut their teeth on vision casting.
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:58.400
It's one of the best places where they can they can let their skin thicken a little as they hear the word no from people.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.799
Uh there's a lot of growth and good that comes from our planters fundraising.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.720
So we're not trying to take that away from them.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.559
We are just trying to get them to second base.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:07.359
Yeah.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:15.200
What would you guys say is unique from your uh your see your experiences from what we do and how we fund as a network?
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:22.160
Not that Redeemer Network, I'm not trying to say we're exceptional or better than anyone else, but I do think our funding model is unique.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:30.240
And so, in what ways is the Redeemer Network funding model unique from maybe other denominations or networks that are doing similar kind of work?
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.319
Do you want to jump in on that one?
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:47.920
Um, well, I mean, I'll say from my perspective, um, you know, one of the things I appreciate is it does feel like not to pick on any denominations, but sometimes it's a in in funding is almost like an investment, like we're gonna fund you here, but you're gonna trickle back this kind of immediately.
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.599
I see a lot of churches engaged in that.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:57.119
And again, it still helps those churches, but I love that with Redeemer Network, it's really, hey, we're we're giving you these funds to steward.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:06.960
We're gonna certainly we're gonna all pull our money to help plant churches, but it doesn't feel like kind of a we're giving you this to kind of trickle back kind of an investment like I've I've seen in some networks.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:24.400
And I also appreciate just knowing that if you're funding a church, uh, let's say you're a multiplier or you're another church contributing in Redeemer Network, as I've been a part of a church that's done that for years, you know that those uh planters are being trained, that they're being equipped, that they're being uh that they're known.
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:30.319
And it's not just a random guy coming in saying, Hey, could you give me some money for this church plant?
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:44.400
There are guys that have been trained in Redeemer Network churches that have a relationship, that are being assessed, that are being um, you know, that that it's not just your investment is going to bear fruit in in good, qualified men who are leading churches.
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:48.799
So that's another thing I appreciate is just the knowing the network they have and the relationships.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.440
Well, I can just name in everything you just said.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.960
Uh our model is a a little unique on a couple of fronts.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.799
One of them is that we do ask for 4% of our churches to get back to the network.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.119
That's a little higher than you would typically have in an organization like ours.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.000
And we almost never hear anybody complaining about that.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:16.960
It is a sacrifice for our churches, but it's a sacrifice that's a joyful sacrifice because they do know that this money is going to both the planting and renewing of churches to see the gospel multiply.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:25.680
We do have the shared training mechanism so that they know everybody who we're planting, everybody who we're getting behind is somebody that's been trained the way that they were trained.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.960
Um and then it's not a it's just not alone.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:35.599
It's we are collectively participating in pooling our money to plant and replant new churches.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:46.640
Yeah, I I think that's one of the things that has been really fun to see is like you said, at 4% to does seem like a lot for if you know maybe other organizations that would ask for 2% or 1%.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.119
And some people listening might not even know what that means.
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.680
But it's basically requiring that the church would give to the network.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.759
And one of the things that we've done from the beginning is that we've tried to operate as lean as possible as an organization.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:14.160
So that that money that comes into that collective pot, if you will, every year, that a large as much as possible from that pot is going to directly fund church multiplication.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:21.200
And we've been about that from the beginning, trying to operate really lean so that those church planning dollars are really getting to the work of church planning.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.799
And that's been really fun to see.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.559
It's something that we're committed to.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:33.519
It's been fun to even be able to say, hey, every single year my church is funding church planting, whether we are actually sending a planter or not.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:39.279
My local church, Redeemer Round Rock, every single year we're funding church plants because of that mechanism.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:50.319
And like you said, Brandon, we have access anytime we need it, we're using it this year to a robust uh training program, a church planning residency that in any moment we can plug a leader into.
00:22:50.400 --> 00:23:02.000
And so um it is, I think, a really unique model in that um it's a model that both allows churches to give and to steward and also receive uh from our from our funding model.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.759
So anything you'd want to add on that?
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:12.000
Yeah, I I I want to double-click on we do operate as lean as is healthy to be able to serve uh our churches.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.680
Uh we don't want uh any bloating in our organization.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:28.880
We have low operating cost as an organization, but we want to we want to fight to keep that that way uh because we do want as much money as we can to be going to the training, the support, and funding of our church plants.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.960
Uh so we do operate as lean as we can.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:40.319
As you can imagine, as an organization, we've we got some of our younger churches or older church, I should say, that are progressively funding more and we continue to multiply.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:46.000
And as we continue to plant more churches, uh there's a need for more people to jump in and be multipliers with us.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:47.759
And so can I plug multiply the mission?
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:48.400
Yeah, go for it.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:49.119
Yeah.
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:56.640
Uh so when this comes out, we will have either just started or about to launch a 50-day multiply the mission campaign.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.400
All the details on that will be loud and on our website and everywhere uh that you can find them when that comes.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:15.200
But our our aim is uh to multiply the number of multipliers who are supporting the work uh monthly in the Redeemer Network so that we can continue sufficiently funding our church plants in the way that we desire to.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.839
Yeah, good.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:16.880
Can you remember who it was?
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.160
Somebody was had a conversation recently.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:29.359
I remember if it was you, it might have been Dusty, but talking about an article they read that was talking about how uh church planters are some of the most undercapitalized um uh people.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:40.160
Uh you know, anything that would compare to church planning, we're trying to start something, you're trying to start something from nothing, um, any kind of work like that, and how severely undercapitalized church planters are.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:47.440
So, yeah, the need for more multipliers to um to get behind this work that we're this kingdom work that we're doing that we really believe in.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:47.839
It's good.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:53.599
We really because we we we want to multiply, we want to we want to fund more churches at a greater dollar amount.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.599
We want to get that funding up to 100,000 and we want to increase the number of churches we're multiplying every year.
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:07.039
And to do that, we need our churches to continue sacrificially giving and we need multipliers who are who are investing in the work.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.160
Yeah, good.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:09.119
All right.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:17.839
Well, maybe as we prepare to close, I want I was thinking that I would love for you guys to speak to two different kinds of people that perhaps could be listening.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.599
Uh Josh, we'll start with you.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:34.000
Maybe maybe first, uh, the a church planner that might be listening or someone that is either early on in church planning or considering church planning that might feel very under-resourced or under equipped in regard to their finances right now.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:36.640
Anything that you would say or or share?
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:48.640
Yeah, I would, I would say, I mean, this is not going to help the guy that's already rolling, but as much as possible, try to project, raise, have support before the train starts rolling.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:53.119
It is harder once you get in the throes of ministry to then put on your fundraising hat.
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:53.440
Yeah.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.119
It you sometimes you need to do that.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:26:05.200
But as much as you can project, talk with people, if you if you're not gifted at administration and finance, talk with people that are and help project a realistic budget that you can, you know.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:12.799
I usually try to use five years, maybe some people maybe use four, but where you can maybe by year five be self-sufficient as a church.
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:20.319
And so you want to build a budget that's realistic, that also resources your church, but is also realistic about the funds that you can raise as a church.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:21.599
So I want to say that.
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.519
Um, and it is normal for a church planter to feel under-resourced.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:27.680
If it's if it's not money, it's kids workers.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:32.880
If it's not kids workers, it's staff, you know, it's if it's not staff, it's quality, you know, volunteers.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.759
And so you're just that's just normal and part of the grind of being a church planter.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:51.599
And really, you just need to, you know, pray one once a quarter, kind of evaluate where, you know, really early on, you got to evaluate pretty quickly because things are going to change every, I used to say every six months, they probably change once a quarter in the early days of a church plant.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:58.240
So just being on top of your financials, on your metrics with your people, on your growth, on am I, am I staying faithful?
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.359
You can't control the fruit, but you can stay faithful to the things that you uh need to be doing.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.519
Am I making the right amount of contacts with new people?
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:14.000
Am I, you know, spending time in prayer, all those things to be faithful with that, to pray, to know that it's normal to feel a little bit under resourced.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:21.119
And then uh, you know, then then just pull it, don't be afraid to pull in wise counsel from uh whether that's coaching.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:26.240
I know one of the things you guys think you're talking about in a later podcast is the support that the network provides.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.039
But don't don't wait, be aware of what's going on.
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:30.720
When you need help, raise your hand.
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:31.839
Um, I would say that.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:53.119
And um, and then and then I will say this like sometimes if you're feeling under-resourced and you and maybe you aren't as gifted in the areas of finance, um, if you don't get help and you don't develop a budget and you don't do some of the financial principles that uh help build trust amongst your donors, you it's not gonna get better.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:00.160
So you need to find people who can help you have a budget, who can help you put in some principles because people that we'll talk to donors in a second.
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:12.079
I know we're gonna get there, but people who are gonna give and support big amounts of money, they just, I don't know if it's that they they look at it and they can tell or they just intuitively sense it, but they can sense when you don't have your stuff together.
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:21.839
And the more you can show that you have transparent policies, hey, that we're that every dollar spent is accounted for, that we're following a budget and a plan that speaks to your donors.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:31.599
And so make sure that you're doing that and not just saying, oh, we're you know, we're don't blame being spirit-led or organic for taking care of what you need to take care of financially.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.000
Yeah.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:42.799
Um you you guys as an organization at Church Biz, obviously we we love and trust you guys a ton and and you do a great job uh with this organizationally.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.759
But Josh, I also know that you have a real heart for church planters just personally.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:56.480
And so if there's somebody that's listening that maybe is like, yeah, I'm kind of the guy that's like I've kind of want to stick my head in the sand on some of this kind of stuff.
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:10.640
And you know how what how could someone reach out to you whether they need the actual service that Church of this provides, or if they just like someone that's listening, that's just like, hey, I need I need somebody, I need a friend to call on this and get some advice.
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:17.279
Well, and definitely if you're a redeemer Redeemer Network planter, I love this network, have been around it since the beginning.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:22.880
And uh, so you could email me and you could feel free to con if you know anybody's here, contact, you can email me.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:24.799
I'm I'm actually on the Redeemer Network Slack.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.720
I'd be more than happy to help you uh at no cost work through a budget.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.440
I mean, if you're like, hey, I want to work through a budget and create a project, like that's the kind of stuff I get excited about.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.640
You said you said Sammy earlier didn't think that this was exciting.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.000
Yeah, she did that's my world.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.920
Uh, but but I would love to sit down with him.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.759
And a lot of times it's just, you know, I just encourage, I see certain personality types that kind of like they do put their head in the sand.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.559
It's okay to say, hey, this I'm not great at this, but it's not okay to not get help.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:52.799
Yeah.
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.599
And it's not gonna get better by burying your head in the sand.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:03.039
It's gonna get better by raising your hand and saying, hey, someone help me create a budget, someone help me uh think through uh, you know, what it looks like.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:09.759
I can't even think through tomorrow, but I need help thinking through a five-year plan or getting a uh, you know, a give online giving stuff up.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:14.880
So they they're in Redeemer Network, they can con they can contact you, and then I would love to talk with them if they need help.
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:15.759
Just so craziness.
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:26.720
I mean, you know, you like God is a generous God, God owns all things, uh, God will provide resources for his people and for the work that he's called us to.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.200
Like we know all those things, but it's so interesting.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:38.079
It does feel like so many pastors they don't get into this, so many planters don't get into this because they want to do money and finance, they want to preach, they want to disciple, they want to lead.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.359
But this is so critical.
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.880
And it's you know, you're just thinking about it.
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.279
Like, if someone knew that they were weak on preaching, they'd be like, I gotta get help.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.480
Like, I all the time.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.279
Like, I need help.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.279
Help me think through this, give me some coaching.
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.119
Like, but for some reason, when it comes to money, there's so much shame that's baked in here.
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.359
It's part of what we talked about earlier with like the story.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:56.559
Everyone has a story of money.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:06.559
And so God not only has provided, will provide the resources that you need, but he's also provided people in the body that love this stuff, that are gifted at it, and that can help.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.000
And so get get get help.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:08.880
I think that's the thing.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.720
Yeah, so maybe somebody needs that.
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.480
Um, Brandon, what would you say to that person?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:20.799
Yeah, to the planter who is looking at the bank account, going, I just don't have the resources that I wish I had.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.720
So that person, I would say this first.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:34.160
You not having the resources you wish you had, it doesn't mean the father doesn't love you, doesn't see you, doesn't care about you.
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.720
It doesn't mean the father's not proud of you.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.000
It doesn't mean that the father doesn't believe in what you're doing.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:50.319
It doesn't mean that your church plant is a second-tier JV church plant to the church plant down the road who's just flushed with money.
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:51.839
Um I'd start there.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:32:01.599
I would start with listen, ministry is so lonely, leadership is lonely, church planting is uniquely lonely, or it can be.
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:08.079
And it's so easy to look around and see not enough people, not enough resource, and go, does this even matter?
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:13.039
And if you're looking at your account and you're going, Do I even matter?
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.119
I want you to hear the answer is yes.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:21.119
Uh we don't have to know each other for me to tell you that the Redeemer Network is for you, believes in you.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:31.519
Uh we are honored to be in this global mission of multiplying churches to see the gospel reach every man, woman, and child out there.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:33.759
We are honored to be a part of that with you.
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:35.279
Uh, and the father loves you.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:39.200
Uh the second thing I would say is stay faithful.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.960
Stay faithful.
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.839
Don't let a lack of resources lead you to cut corners.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.880
Uh cutting corners leads nowhere good.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:58.319
Keep doing the diligent, low to the ground, messy work of reaching and discipling men, women, and children with the gospel.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.079
Uh don't cut corners.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:05.200
Uh, and then third, uh, and I don't want this to sound trite, but trust the Lord.
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.599
The Lord will provide, He will provide what you need when you need it.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:18.880
It may not be what you want to be provided, but the Lord knows you, He knows your church plant, He loves you, He loves your church plant, He'll provide what you need.
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.640
That's what I'd say to that person.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:21.039
Okay.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.119
And maybe let's end with this.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:34.400
Um someone's listening that is um resourced, whether it be a church that has ample resources more than they need, and there are churches like that out there.
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:45.920
Um and uh or uh or a uh some an individual that loves this network, that's uh part of one of our churches that has ample resources.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:34:04.720
Uh what would you say to them um about maybe a word of stewardship, even about what you mentioned earlier about you know multiplying the mission of really seeing the network as something compelling, strategic, uh to give those additional extra resources to?
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:05.519
What would you say?
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:06.799
Josh, we'll start with you again.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:14.239
Yeah, I mean, I would say is, you know, I'm around the Redeemer Network, but I'm not, you know, I'm not an official part of it.
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:18.800
But uh there are things that you give towards that you're excited to give towards, right?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:24.880
There's a giving out of obedience, sure, we need to do that, but there's also things that just you see the impact it's having.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:42.000
And I am uh I I I would just advocate, like if you're looking for a place to see dollars go towards meaningful ministry and church planting, that the Redeemer Network is gonna be a place where you can give generously, extravagantly, and watch it multiply.
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:47.840
Um, you can look at the history, you can look at the character of the men and the women in the network.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:55.679
Um, and it's just a place where I could give my full endorsement to say, man, give uh where there's fire, let's keep pouring gas there.
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.199
That's a good investment strategy.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.079
And a kingdom investment is in the Redeemer Network.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:09.920
And so if you're if you're you know listening to this and considering, I would say first, if you know maybe a particular planter, you could go through the Redeemer Network or even directly to them.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:15.599
But let's say you don't, let's say you don't know a planter, but you're like, I love church planting, I want to help church planters.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:23.840
The beauty about giving to the network is you, you guys doing the everyday, day-to-day work, you do know the guys on the ground and you do know where funds need to go.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:31.119
And so they can give extravagantly to you and still have a very clear and direct impact on church planters.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:47.440
And so I would say, yeah, or just you'd made me think, like I think right now, I know we have a guy in our network right now who's planting a rural church and a part of Texas that needs resources because the people he's reaching as his church is growing, they don't have resources.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.320
In fact, they need resources to help those people that they're reaching in small town Texas.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:11.199
I know of a guy right now that will be in an Airbnb in Georgetown for our resident training who's planting an urban church and he's got a young family and reaching young adults in urban Austin, um, they need resources um so they can keep reaching people.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:23.199
I know another guy that uh two guys that will actually be there that are planting in a college town in Norman, Oklahoma, reaching the next generation who I don't know if you know this or not, but most college students are broke.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:33.920
So uh so to your point, Josh, I mean, yeah, like if someone hadn't is directly connected to a planter, yeah, just by all means love and support, bless their socks off.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:44.559
But yeah, we're we're we know these guys and the good work that they're doing, and we're walking with them and coaching them and training them and praying for them, and and uh and there's real needs for sure.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:37:05.360
Uh I would say to the church or to the individual, uh, first, there's no greater joy, irrespective of how much money you have or think that you have or don't have or think you don't have, there's no greater joy than looking at the resources God has given you and seeing them as not just for you, but for the mission of God in the world.
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:25.119
When that light bulb switches in your life, and when you pull up your Bank of America, where I'm at, or wherever bank you're at, and you look and you know uh God has provided for me and my family, but not just for me and my family, but so that we can participate in a gospel getting to the nations, no greater joy than that.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:43.119
Uh and my my plug for one of my plugs, the one I'll give now for supporting Redeemer Network and why uh we want to invite the entire world to jump in to multiply the mission is if you go to our website, uh redeemer network.org, you'll find what we call our multiplication chart.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:52.480
Uh it's on our website and it shows church one, and it has a line to dot to church two, to three, to four, and it's got years down below.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:56.559
And then you see our daughter and then our granddaughter churches along the way.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.559
Every one of those dots included on our multiplication chart are the church plants who didn't make it.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:03.840
Church planting is hard.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.280
Not every church plant makes it, some for a variety of different reasons.
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.719
But even in those church plants, every dot represents stories of lives changed by the gospel.
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.280
Every single one of them.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:20.400
And I when I sit back, like one of the things that I uh I love to grill.
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:21.440
I'm not really good at it.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:22.960
I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to get better.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.880
I'm I'm read as my new sensei uh when it comes to grilling.
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:33.519
Uh but I'll sit back while I'm grilling something in my little chair outside chair or L-shaped thing.
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.599
And one of the things I I love to do is just to imagine.
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.800
Just to just to imagine 50 years down the road a group of college kids.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.280
I came to Christ in college, and so for me it's natural to go.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:56.400
They're they're a bunch of 20-year-olds sitting in a room, and uh somebody's curious, they're they're they're curious about Christianity, they're wondering who Jesus is, they've got that nagging ache in their life, they don't know what it is.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:30.880
And they're asking somebody their story of how they became a Christian, and their story goes back to their mom and dad, and their mom and dad's story goes back to their grandmama and granddad uh who were angry and bitter and addicted, and then they met somebody who met somebody who was just part of this new church plan, and they just bumped up against one of those dots, and their life was changed, but not just theirs, but their kids, their grandkids, and then the college students, their grandkids went to college with.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:39.840
Every dot represents stories and not just stories that existed within the time and space of that dot.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.159
Yep.
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:41.360
Generations to come.
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:42.480
Yep, that's great, man.
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:43.199
Really good.
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:44.800
Great place to end.
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:48.159
Um, you know, I don't know if my wife listens to this podcast.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:49.599
I I would bet she doesn't.
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.440
But if she did, I think she would be surprised.
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:52.400
I think she would like this one.
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:54.000
My wife will not be listening.
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.559
But I think she would love it.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.159
Uh appreciate you guys.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:05.920
Grateful for the work that you do, your leadership of our network, Brandon, and Josh, thankful for you, man, and um the way you love and serve so many people.
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:07.199
Uh, good stuff today.
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.119
Thanks for jumping on and joining.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.519
Welcome to the Redeemer Network Podcast, where we talk church planning, church health, and multiplying churches for the sake of the gospel.
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:12.480
To learn more about the Redeemer Network, visit RedeemerNetwork.org.
00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:15.759
All right.
00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:18.079
Well, welcome back to the Redeemer Network Podcast.
00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:21.519
This season we're talking about what we do as a network.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.079
We have three priorities as a network training, funding, and support.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:32.159
And in our previous episodes, we've discussed how we train leaders for both church planting and church renewal.
00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:37.119
And today we're going to talk about everyone's favorite topic: funding.
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:45.119
Uh, my hope for this episode is um is to make this more entertaining than your typical church finance team budget meeting.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.079
And so that's why I've brought on two big time guests today.
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.719
I'm joined by Brandon Barker and Josh Treeves.
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:51.280
Welcome, guys.
00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:51.840
Thanks.
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:53.359
Well, good to be glad to be here.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:54.479
I'll just introduce you.
00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.280
Brandon is the executive director of the Redeemer Network.
00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:10.400
Before jumping in and serving the network, he served in pastoral ministry for 16 years and still in many ways is serving in pastoral ministry, is serving helping uh with Redeemer Georgetown and providing some leadership there.
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:18.159
And then Josh Treeves is the uh partner and content director for Church Biz, and he was the founding pastor of Redeemer Groundrock.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:26.640
And so served on staff as a pastor from our start in 2011 to 2022, served as a lay elder and still hanging around as a partner.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:27.280
Still here.
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:28.879
And so thankful for that.
00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:35.040
Um, so before we jump into this conversation today about funding, uh, I was thinking about this this morning.
00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:37.920
There's a lot of really exciting stuff going on right now.
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We've got, at the time that we're recording this, we've got a uh um a hub training, a retreat for our residents this weekend.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:47.760
We'll be training them on uh Missional Church.
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Excited about that.
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:55.280
We've got an assessment conference coming up for some of our soon-to-be church planners that we're sending out.
00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:56.879
Um, I've heard a rumor.
00:01:56.959 --> 00:01:57.760
I don't know if this is true.
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Maybe producer Kyler can verify this, but I think there's a Redeemer Network music project in the works right now.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:03.120
There is.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.519
Okay, Kyler says yeah, that's exciting.
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.240
Our conference is coming up in the fall and plans are in place.
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:09.439
So just a lot of exciting stuff.
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:13.199
School's out for the summer, NBA playoffs are happening right now.
00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:14.319
It's a good time.
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.000
So I thought we could start this way.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.240
Um, what's got you guys excited right now?
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:18.800
What's going on?
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Can I jump in first?
00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:20.240
Yeah.
00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:20.479
Yeah.
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:29.120
So uh I was excited about your original icebreaker, uh, which was 95 Rockets uh versus 26 Spurs.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:29.439
Yeah.
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:34.400
We'll save that for another day or maybe later if this crashes and we need something to pick it up.
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Uh I'm excited about all the things you just mentioned.
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Um we have our assessment next week.
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I love that time.
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We're doing our first retreat as part of a residency as we pivot part of our training this year uh over the next couple of days.
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Excited about that.
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Uh the music project, uh, one of the things that's been really fun to watch.
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I know you've got a separate episode.
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I don't know if you've recorded that yet or you're about to.
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Uh one of the things that's been really fun to watch is a lot of our churches start writing their own music.
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And it seemed like this is something the that the Lord is stirring in our churches.
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And we went, okay, how do we how can we be a part of that and really kind of organize it a bit and put some resource behind it?
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I would, I would, I would love for the day to get here when we're at our conference singing all redeemer music, um, songs by Redeemer Churches, for Redeemer Churches.
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Uh, there that'd be a lot of fun.
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But uh, if we're talking about what what's got us excited today, uh, it's my anniversary, and so I cannot pass up on that one.
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Uh 21 years today.
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I would put the ball on the tee for you right there.
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Good job.
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You did.
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Amanda, I love you.
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Happy anniversary.
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If she's listening to a podcast on funding, she is not.
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Josh, what about you?
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Yeah, well, uh, I mean, I'm excited about all that going on with Redeemer Network.
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Personally, uh, I just married our oldest daughter last week, got her married, and uh did that wedding.
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So that was uh that was exciting.
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And my wife just graduated from uh UT nursing school.
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So sorry to all our tech fans that she went to UT, but you know, it was close.
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So we're excited about that.
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:01.599
Yeah, good stuff, man.
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A lot to celebrate.
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All right.
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.280
Well, so we'll start here.
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I was telling my wife that I was recording a podcast episode today on church funding, and she literally laughed out loud at me.
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Um, not sure anybody's gonna be that interested in this, was her take.
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Um, but church funding is no joke.
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That's that's a reason that it's one of our three priorities.
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We train, we fund, we support.
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Um, if we're going to fulfill our mission as a network to advance the gospel through multiplying healthy churches, we need uh good thinking and good strategy on funding.
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Churches mission needs money.
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We we need resources.
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So, Brandon, I'll come with you to come here to you.
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We'll start there.
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Why why is why is funding so critical to our mission as a network?
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Yeah, so let me answer that from two sides.
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Let me answer that from the side of the church or sending church or sending churches and then the planter.
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Uh from the the side of the the sending church, I I would say this to answer that question, we've got to back up and ask this question why do we plant churches?
00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:08.639
Why do we do this?
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.160
Why do we fund church multiplication, the the planting and the renewing of churches?
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Why do we do that?
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:34.480
Um and to to take from Tim Keller, who we've all learned from, learned so much from, uh, Tim would say this, or he said this in 2015 uh that church planting is the best strategy we have for reaching new men, women, children, unchurched people, non-Christians with the gospel.
00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:43.519
He would say that new church plants on average reach three to six times or three to six times more likely to reach new people than existing churches.
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Um and so church planting at its core is an evangelistic missionary endeavor, uh, and it's the best shot we have at reaching new men, women, children.
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Not the only shot, but the best shot.
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And then uh and then the other side is what he said is that it's the it's the best thing we have to see existing churches renewed, strengthened.
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All of us want to see all of our people bought into the mission of God.
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:19.120
The best way to lead people deeper into the mission of God and see their lives lived out on mission is to model it by multiplying churches and church planting um in your church.
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:25.439
And so if you're leading an established church, uh the best way you can get your people on mission is to plant a church.
00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.560
Uh and then to the church planner.
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On the church planner side, I'd say this we we want our planners to be missionaries.
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Uh we we we don't want to to fund everything, and I know we're gonna get to our funding model in a minute.
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We're not trying to fund the entirety of a church plant.
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We do want to get them first, second base so that they're freed up to not just only be pursuing resources, but to get out and be a missionary, to engage and do that on the ground hard work of reaching men, women, children, evangelizing a community, uh, to get out there and to be uh to be missionaries.
00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:11.120
Yeah, so I hear I hear the just even the biblical mission missional mandate there of why we plant churches and then and then church planners need time, they need resources in order to do the work.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:20.959
And funding is part of not only resourcing them for the actual cost, but also freeing up time for the work of ministry, the work of mission, um, especially in those early days.
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:27.920
Josh, I'll come to you and and and you know, you have the perspective here of both the church planner, but also the work that you do with church biz.
00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:35.439
And so maybe if you want to throw your church biz hat on, even talk a little bit about what church biz is and what what you do there, feel free to do that.
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:38.240
But help us think about that a little bit.
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Like how do we think about mission and money and and the kingdom of God and the need for resources?
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:51.360
Yeah, well, I think you know, one thing planters need to know and be courageous about is teaching on money and having a solid theology.
00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.040
It is a theological issue.
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And so the Bible talks a ton about money and stewardship.
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And so um, when you when it comes to funding, sometimes maybe that can feel like a sensitive issue to go and ask people to support the work that you're doing or even an existing church just regularly talking about giving.
00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:14.800
But it really is a theological issue that planters and pastors need to address because for one, people aren't neutral on money.
00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:22.240
People have been formed by culture, people have been formed by maybe what they've seen on TBN or prosperity gospel teachings on money.
00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:33.360
And so I a lot of times, you know, especially planters, you're you're meeting new people, you're trying to, you know, you don't want people to think that you've come to this place to ask for their money or whatever it is.
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:38.480
Um, but but you know you're aware that there's some bad teaching on money and that people are skeptical.
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And so I think it's important for planters to establish their own theology and then to unashamedly teach what the Bible teaches on generosity.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:52.799
And so um, if you're gonna talk about funding, you have to talk about having a solid theology of giving.
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Um, and so you know, don't avoid teaching, uh, but teach on giving and really from day one.
00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:06.000
And even it might even start with teaching yourself so you can become comfortable with asking people to support what you're doing in your in your church plant.
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:06.559
That's really good.
00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:07.679
I'll tap in on that for a second.
00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:12.080
My friend Craig Parrish, he was actually on an episode uh last season.
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:24.480
Uh he as executive pastor at Livingstone Church in Reno, Nevada, but he he I was talking with him and he was telling me about some stuff that they were doing at their church, and he said, Here's one of the things I realized is that everybody has a story with money.
00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:32.639
Pastors have a story with money, and then churches have a story with money, the way that even historically they've either talked about or not talked about money.
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:38.159
And being able to first and foremost, just even as a pastor, what is my story with money?
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.519
What are my hang-ups and hiccups when it comes to money?
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:43.919
And then how does the gospel speak to those?
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How does the Bible really reshape my own story with money so that I can then think well about stewardship and generosity?
00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:51.600
Yeah.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:52.320
That's good.
00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:57.440
Because we I mean, we we came from a strand of the church that you know didn't want to talk about money.
00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:06.720
It was reacting to a generation before or to TBN and said, let's not talk about money, let's just be taught on.
00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:14.480
Yeah, if if you don't talk about it and teach on it, then people's assumptions are gonna remain unchallenged and they're gonna be undiscipled in that.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:22.080
And so I always encourage really planters and pastors from day one, you know, in your gathering, how are you gonna focus on giving?
00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:25.679
How are you gonna highlight that, make it a part of your worship in your discipleship?
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:27.039
What is that gonna look like?
00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:33.519
Maybe it's not, you know, obviously every lesson is gonna be about giving, but at some point in the year, you should probably address that.
00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:46.080
Um, even if you're starting off with just a core team of eight to twelve people, having that core team know your theology of giving and that that they can practice that and then also pass that on uh is important.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:52.639
So yeah, so we've talked a little bit about the need for funding for the sake of the mission.
00:10:53.120 --> 00:11:04.399
Also just biblically, I mean, we see it all over the Bible that you see, um, you see in in the New Testament, so the first century churches were supporting each other, get money being sent from one church to support the other church.
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:21.759
Um you see people bringing their resources that they have, selling their possessions, bringing their resources to meet the needs of the church, um, uh money as giving money as both worship, an act of worship, and giving money as a fuel catalyst to mission.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:28.080
So uh certainly biblically uh we know this is important and it's important for the church to support for the kingdom.
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:32.639
Josh, um, I'd love to hear a little bit just kind of your experience as a church planter.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:55.120
So if you could go back to 2010 when you were starting to build a core team in Lubbock, uh to 2011 when you moved to Round Rock and then in even into 2012 as we were starting launching this church here, um, what was that experience like for you as a church planter, knowing that you needed funding and kind of trying to figure out how do we fundraise?
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.600
And the Redeemer Network didn't exist yet then.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.879
So there weren't the structures, the funding model that we'll talk about in a minute.
00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.039
Like just what was that experience like for you?
00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.559
What what'd you learn?
00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:06.639
What do you take away from that season?
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:10.080
Yeah, we we weren't quite in the wild west of church planning.
00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:19.360
That might have been a few years before us, but it was still before there were residencies, before there were, you know, just resources out there, there wasn't PCO giving out there that made everything easy.
00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:25.840
And so uh it was there was a lot of learning that I had to do, a lot of getting out there and figuring it out on my own.
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:39.919
Um, and and so uh while Redeemer Lubbock was incredibly helpful as a sending church, there was there was just a ton of things I had to get out there and just figure out from even thinking about, okay, now that I'm gonna start a church, what is you know, what does that mean with the government?
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.039
Like, so it obviously is not gonna come into my bank account.
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.320
So I've got to get a bank account.
00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:45.519
Well, how do you do that?
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:47.360
What are the steps to doing that?
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.519
And then, you know, thinking about, well, okay, now uh how do I ask people for support?
00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.240
And that led to you know getting an online giving platform.
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:55.519
I don't even remember what it was.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:57.759
I know it wasn't anything like what we have today.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.320
I think I recall something about like Josh Reeves' ministries.
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:01.519
Okay, yes, yeah.
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:04.159
That was a mistake.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:11.440
Uh I will say this if you're setting up your church for the IRS, know that whatever name you start with, it never goes away.
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.840
So even uh okay, don't put your name on on your 501c3.
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:21.360
That was less I can't say this wasn't the Wild West and have Josh Reese Ministry.
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:37.840
That was, you know, I I had a free CPA at that time, and that's what you get with free, you know, no not to plug church biz, but we that was a free volunteer CPA, and he decided I'm just gonna since I couldn't get him a church name yet, he just named it Josh Reese Ministry.
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:39.759
So uh that was quite fun, you know.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:40.879
Don't do that.
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:46.879
That's a little thankfully there was enough trust with most of my donors that they could still see the, you know, where that was going.
00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.480
But yeah, that was that was fun.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:57.679
So so those are just there's just a lot of administrative things that even need to go into before you can even start receiving support back then.
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.240
And so um that that was part of it.
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:05.279
And then just uh we were thankfully we had an incredibly generous sending church, Redeemer Lubbock.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:06.960
Um, should I say what they sent us with?
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:07.759
Is that is that okay?
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.360
I mean, I think they funded us 150,000 over three years.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.080
Uh it was like 75, 50, and 25.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:21.039
And so part of my approach too was to build a five-year budget towards self-sufficiency in the church.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:29.840
And so we kind of took that funding and knew what we had from there and from other supporters and and made a budget to hope by year five to be fully self-supported.
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.759
So so there was a lot of just learning and figuring things out.
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:41.919
Um, wasn't quite the abundance of resources that there are now, or obviously the Redeemer Network, which can, you know, can help a ton in fundraising.
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.240
So yeah, that was that was a little bit of our experience, but it was honestly, it was good for me.
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:52.799
Uh, it was, you know, I didn't foresee at that point that later in my career I would be helping churches with stewardship, like in church biz.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:57.759
So uh it really helped me at Redeemer and helped set us up for success, figuring all that out.
00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:03.840
And then uh, but but it's not necessarily the path I would recommend um for for planters today.
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:05.519
There's so many more resources out there.
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.799
So yeah, yeah.
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:07.360
Yeah.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:22.320
Well, you you did such a great job uh early on um with all of that, uh, even even with it being called Josh Reeves Ministries at first, but you know, you did such a great job that set us up even to have such a strong uh foundation as we were planting this church.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:27.840
And we you had a you know, we had a very generous sending church that funded uh well, but that's not always the case.
00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:29.279
That's not always the story, you know.
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:40.240
I mean, a lot of times there's hey, I want to plant a church and I've got a vision and I'm ready to go do evangelism and I'm ready to I'm ready to go get after it, but uh well, don't really have a sending church that's giving me very much money.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.759
They maybe don't have much money to give, or I don't know what to do.
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:54.879
And you know, there's the old story of like church planners that are calling their grandma, asking for grandma money to help start their church, and they're calling all their relatives and all their old high school buddies and anybody that they can to try and get money.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.080
And not that that's bad.
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:01.039
I mean, God is using not only grandma prayers but grandma money to find a lot of kingdom impact.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:10.559
So that's not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but um, that's not always the best way to introduce your new church to all of your friends and family and people that you're trying to reach is hey, we need your money.
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:26.240
And so that is the beauty of a network that is doing funding and is that it can help a church planner start this process, start on first base, start on second base when it comes to when it comes to um having uh financial health.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.639
And so I want what I want to do is I want to talk now kind of about our funding model.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.000
Like what is our funding model as as the network.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.519
So, Brandon, we'll come to you here.
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:40.320
When we say we fund church multiplication, what does that mean?
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.120
Yeah.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.200
So let me add a word to what you just said.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.960
Uh, I think you said we've we fund uh church planters.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.519
Uh it's that we fund all of them.
00:16:51.759 --> 00:17:03.440
Uh and what where that matters is you're right, there's a lot of guys who have a vision, have a pat and the Lord's calling to go plant a church, but they're not coming from a redeemer levick, uh, where praise God they could give$150,000.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.039
There are churches who go, I'm all in, Jordan.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.200
I'm all in with you planting a church.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.440
We're losing money month over month.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.000
I can send you some people, and that's gonna hurt us.
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.240
And they can't send money.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.480
And so our funding model uh is that we have directly funded our churches.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.720
It started out at 60,000 and then it got to 70, and then 80, and then 85.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.359
Uh, and that's a direct funding, it's not a loan.
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.039
We're not asking to pay back the loan.
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:35.359
Our churches do uh contribute back to Redeemer Network, uh, but it's not paying back a loan where we're tracking that.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:45.680
It's uh they've received the the gift of resourcing from our churches, and then they plant and then they participate in resourcing future church plants.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:51.039
Uh so our churches give four percent uh of their internal giving uh to Redeemer Network.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.359
That goes to help fund future church plants.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:18:02.880
Uh and then we also have people outside of the network who believe in what we're doing, who want to participate in what we're doing, call the multipliers uh who are supporting the work of uh of Redeemer Network.
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.640
And and we do want them on second base.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.880
We want all of our planters on second base uh when they're starting down this road.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:17.519
Uh and so it's not just I get money because I'm from a large church or I don't have money because I'm from a small church, uh, but by pooling our money together, we're collectively funding together.
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.480
And then the sending church or other churches can directly support our planters as well.
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.200
But our our hope isn't to just fully fund a church plant where they're not having to do anything.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:34.720
Uh, we want uh kind of one bucket of the the funds for our churches to come directly from the network.
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:45.440
Uh we want one bucket to come from the people that they're reaching and uh the core team they're developing, and then we want one bucket to come from them doing the hard work of fundraising outside of both groups.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.079
Uh fundraising for a church planter is one of the best places where they can cut their teeth on vision casting.
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:58.400
It's one of the best places where they can they can let their skin thicken a little as they hear the word no from people.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.799
Uh there's a lot of growth and good that comes from our planters fundraising.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.720
So we're not trying to take that away from them.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.559
We are just trying to get them to second base.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:07.359
Yeah.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:15.200
What would you guys say is unique from your uh your see your experiences from what we do and how we fund as a network?
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:22.160
Not that Redeemer Network, I'm not trying to say we're exceptional or better than anyone else, but I do think our funding model is unique.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:30.240
And so, in what ways is the Redeemer Network funding model unique from maybe other denominations or networks that are doing similar kind of work?
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.319
Do you want to jump in on that one?
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:47.920
Um, well, I mean, I'll say from my perspective, um, you know, one of the things I appreciate is it does feel like not to pick on any denominations, but sometimes it's a in in funding is almost like an investment, like we're gonna fund you here, but you're gonna trickle back this kind of immediately.
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.599
I see a lot of churches engaged in that.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:57.119
And again, it still helps those churches, but I love that with Redeemer Network, it's really, hey, we're we're giving you these funds to steward.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:06.960
We're gonna certainly we're gonna all pull our money to help plant churches, but it doesn't feel like kind of a we're giving you this to kind of trickle back kind of an investment like I've I've seen in some networks.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:24.400
And I also appreciate just knowing that if you're funding a church, uh, let's say you're a multiplier or you're another church contributing in Redeemer Network, as I've been a part of a church that's done that for years, you know that those uh planters are being trained, that they're being equipped, that they're being uh that they're known.
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:30.319
And it's not just a random guy coming in saying, Hey, could you give me some money for this church plant?
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:44.400
There are guys that have been trained in Redeemer Network churches that have a relationship, that are being assessed, that are being um, you know, that that it's not just your investment is going to bear fruit in in good, qualified men who are leading churches.
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:48.799
So that's another thing I appreciate is just the knowing the network they have and the relationships.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.440
Well, I can just name in everything you just said.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.960
Uh our model is a a little unique on a couple of fronts.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.799
One of them is that we do ask for 4% of our churches to get back to the network.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.119
That's a little higher than you would typically have in an organization like ours.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.000
And we almost never hear anybody complaining about that.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:16.960
It is a sacrifice for our churches, but it's a sacrifice that's a joyful sacrifice because they do know that this money is going to both the planting and renewing of churches to see the gospel multiply.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:25.680
We do have the shared training mechanism so that they know everybody who we're planting, everybody who we're getting behind is somebody that's been trained the way that they were trained.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.960
Um and then it's not a it's just not alone.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:35.599
It's we are collectively participating in pooling our money to plant and replant new churches.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:46.640
Yeah, I I think that's one of the things that has been really fun to see is like you said, at 4% to does seem like a lot for if you know maybe other organizations that would ask for 2% or 1%.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.119
And some people listening might not even know what that means.
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.680
But it's basically requiring that the church would give to the network.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.759
And one of the things that we've done from the beginning is that we've tried to operate as lean as possible as an organization.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:14.160
So that that money that comes into that collective pot, if you will, every year, that a large as much as possible from that pot is going to directly fund church multiplication.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:21.200
And we've been about that from the beginning, trying to operate really lean so that those church planning dollars are really getting to the work of church planning.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.799
And that's been really fun to see.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.559
It's something that we're committed to.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:33.519
It's been fun to even be able to say, hey, every single year my church is funding church planting, whether we are actually sending a planter or not.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:39.279
My local church, Redeemer Round Rock, every single year we're funding church plants because of that mechanism.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:50.319
And like you said, Brandon, we have access anytime we need it, we're using it this year to a robust uh training program, a church planning residency that in any moment we can plug a leader into.
00:22:50.400 --> 00:23:02.000
And so um it is, I think, a really unique model in that um it's a model that both allows churches to give and to steward and also receive uh from our from our funding model.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.759
So anything you'd want to add on that?
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:12.000
Yeah, I I I want to double-click on we do operate as lean as is healthy to be able to serve uh our churches.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.680
Uh we don't want uh any bloating in our organization.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:28.880
We have low operating cost as an organization, but we want to we want to fight to keep that that way uh because we do want as much money as we can to be going to the training, the support, and funding of our church plants.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.960
Uh so we do operate as lean as we can.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:40.319
As you can imagine, as an organization, we've we got some of our younger churches or older church, I should say, that are progressively funding more and we continue to multiply.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:46.000
And as we continue to plant more churches, uh there's a need for more people to jump in and be multipliers with us.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:47.759
And so can I plug multiply the mission?
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:48.400
Yeah, go for it.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:49.119
Yeah.
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:56.640
Uh so when this comes out, we will have either just started or about to launch a 50-day multiply the mission campaign.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.400
All the details on that will be loud and on our website and everywhere uh that you can find them when that comes.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:15.200
But our our aim is uh to multiply the number of multipliers who are supporting the work uh monthly in the Redeemer Network so that we can continue sufficiently funding our church plants in the way that we desire to.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.839
Yeah, good.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:16.880
Can you remember who it was?
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.160
Somebody was had a conversation recently.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:29.359
I remember if it was you, it might have been Dusty, but talking about an article they read that was talking about how uh church planters are some of the most undercapitalized um uh people.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:40.160
Uh you know, anything that would compare to church planning, we're trying to start something, you're trying to start something from nothing, um, any kind of work like that, and how severely undercapitalized church planters are.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:47.440
So, yeah, the need for more multipliers to um to get behind this work that we're this kingdom work that we're doing that we really believe in.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:47.839
It's good.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:53.599
We really because we we we want to multiply, we want to we want to fund more churches at a greater dollar amount.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.599
We want to get that funding up to 100,000 and we want to increase the number of churches we're multiplying every year.
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:07.039
And to do that, we need our churches to continue sacrificially giving and we need multipliers who are who are investing in the work.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.160
Yeah, good.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:09.119
All right.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:17.839
Well, maybe as we prepare to close, I want I was thinking that I would love for you guys to speak to two different kinds of people that perhaps could be listening.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.599
Uh Josh, we'll start with you.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:34.000
Maybe maybe first, uh, the a church planner that might be listening or someone that is either early on in church planning or considering church planning that might feel very under-resourced or under equipped in regard to their finances right now.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:36.640
Anything that you would say or or share?
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:48.640
Yeah, I would, I would say, I mean, this is not going to help the guy that's already rolling, but as much as possible, try to project, raise, have support before the train starts rolling.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:53.119
It is harder once you get in the throes of ministry to then put on your fundraising hat.
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:53.440
Yeah.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.119
It you sometimes you need to do that.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:26:05.200
But as much as you can project, talk with people, if you if you're not gifted at administration and finance, talk with people that are and help project a realistic budget that you can, you know.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:12.799
I usually try to use five years, maybe some people maybe use four, but where you can maybe by year five be self-sufficient as a church.
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:20.319
And so you want to build a budget that's realistic, that also resources your church, but is also realistic about the funds that you can raise as a church.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:21.599
So I want to say that.
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.519
Um, and it is normal for a church planter to feel under-resourced.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:27.680
If it's if it's not money, it's kids workers.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:32.880
If it's not kids workers, it's staff, you know, it's if it's not staff, it's quality, you know, volunteers.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.759
And so you're just that's just normal and part of the grind of being a church planter.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:51.599
And really, you just need to, you know, pray one once a quarter, kind of evaluate where, you know, really early on, you got to evaluate pretty quickly because things are going to change every, I used to say every six months, they probably change once a quarter in the early days of a church plant.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:58.240
So just being on top of your financials, on your metrics with your people, on your growth, on am I, am I staying faithful?
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.359
You can't control the fruit, but you can stay faithful to the things that you uh need to be doing.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.519
Am I making the right amount of contacts with new people?
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:14.000
Am I, you know, spending time in prayer, all those things to be faithful with that, to pray, to know that it's normal to feel a little bit under resourced.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:21.119
And then uh, you know, then then just pull it, don't be afraid to pull in wise counsel from uh whether that's coaching.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:26.240
I know one of the things you guys think you're talking about in a later podcast is the support that the network provides.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.039
But don't don't wait, be aware of what's going on.
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:30.720
When you need help, raise your hand.
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:31.839
Um, I would say that.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:53.119
And um, and then and then I will say this like sometimes if you're feeling under-resourced and you and maybe you aren't as gifted in the areas of finance, um, if you don't get help and you don't develop a budget and you don't do some of the financial principles that uh help build trust amongst your donors, you it's not gonna get better.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:00.160
So you need to find people who can help you have a budget, who can help you put in some principles because people that we'll talk to donors in a second.
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:12.079
I know we're gonna get there, but people who are gonna give and support big amounts of money, they just, I don't know if it's that they they look at it and they can tell or they just intuitively sense it, but they can sense when you don't have your stuff together.
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:21.839
And the more you can show that you have transparent policies, hey, that we're that every dollar spent is accounted for, that we're following a budget and a plan that speaks to your donors.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:31.599
And so make sure that you're doing that and not just saying, oh, we're you know, we're don't blame being spirit-led or organic for taking care of what you need to take care of financially.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.000
Yeah.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:42.799
Um you you guys as an organization at Church Biz, obviously we we love and trust you guys a ton and and you do a great job uh with this organizationally.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.759
But Josh, I also know that you have a real heart for church planters just personally.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:56.480
And so if there's somebody that's listening that maybe is like, yeah, I'm kind of the guy that's like I've kind of want to stick my head in the sand on some of this kind of stuff.
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:10.640
And you know how what how could someone reach out to you whether they need the actual service that Church of this provides, or if they just like someone that's listening, that's just like, hey, I need I need somebody, I need a friend to call on this and get some advice.
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:17.279
Well, and definitely if you're a redeemer Redeemer Network planter, I love this network, have been around it since the beginning.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:22.880
And uh, so you could email me and you could feel free to con if you know anybody's here, contact, you can email me.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:24.799
I'm I'm actually on the Redeemer Network Slack.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.720
I'd be more than happy to help you uh at no cost work through a budget.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.440
I mean, if you're like, hey, I want to work through a budget and create a project, like that's the kind of stuff I get excited about.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.640
You said you said Sammy earlier didn't think that this was exciting.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.000
Yeah, she did that's my world.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.920
Uh, but but I would love to sit down with him.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.759
And a lot of times it's just, you know, I just encourage, I see certain personality types that kind of like they do put their head in the sand.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.559
It's okay to say, hey, this I'm not great at this, but it's not okay to not get help.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:52.799
Yeah.
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.599
And it's not gonna get better by burying your head in the sand.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:03.039
It's gonna get better by raising your hand and saying, hey, someone help me create a budget, someone help me uh think through uh, you know, what it looks like.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:09.759
I can't even think through tomorrow, but I need help thinking through a five-year plan or getting a uh, you know, a give online giving stuff up.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:14.880
So they they're in Redeemer Network, they can con they can contact you, and then I would love to talk with them if they need help.
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:15.759
Just so craziness.
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:26.720
I mean, you know, you like God is a generous God, God owns all things, uh, God will provide resources for his people and for the work that he's called us to.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.200
Like we know all those things, but it's so interesting.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:38.079
It does feel like so many pastors they don't get into this, so many planters don't get into this because they want to do money and finance, they want to preach, they want to disciple, they want to lead.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.359
But this is so critical.
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.880
And it's you know, you're just thinking about it.
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.279
Like, if someone knew that they were weak on preaching, they'd be like, I gotta get help.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.480
Like, I all the time.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.279
Like, I need help.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.279
Help me think through this, give me some coaching.
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.119
Like, but for some reason, when it comes to money, there's so much shame that's baked in here.
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.359
It's part of what we talked about earlier with like the story.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:56.559
Everyone has a story of money.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:06.559
And so God not only has provided, will provide the resources that you need, but he's also provided people in the body that love this stuff, that are gifted at it, and that can help.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.000
And so get get get help.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:08.880
I think that's the thing.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.720
Yeah, so maybe somebody needs that.
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.480
Um, Brandon, what would you say to that person?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:20.799
Yeah, to the planter who is looking at the bank account, going, I just don't have the resources that I wish I had.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.720
So that person, I would say this first.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:34.160
You not having the resources you wish you had, it doesn't mean the father doesn't love you, doesn't see you, doesn't care about you.
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.720
It doesn't mean the father's not proud of you.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.000
It doesn't mean that the father doesn't believe in what you're doing.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:50.319
It doesn't mean that your church plant is a second-tier JV church plant to the church plant down the road who's just flushed with money.
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:51.839
Um I'd start there.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:32:01.599
I would start with listen, ministry is so lonely, leadership is lonely, church planting is uniquely lonely, or it can be.
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:08.079
And it's so easy to look around and see not enough people, not enough resource, and go, does this even matter?
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:13.039
And if you're looking at your account and you're going, Do I even matter?
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.119
I want you to hear the answer is yes.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:21.119
Uh we don't have to know each other for me to tell you that the Redeemer Network is for you, believes in you.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:31.519
Uh we are honored to be in this global mission of multiplying churches to see the gospel reach every man, woman, and child out there.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:33.759
We are honored to be a part of that with you.
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:35.279
Uh, and the father loves you.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:39.200
Uh the second thing I would say is stay faithful.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.960
Stay faithful.
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.839
Don't let a lack of resources lead you to cut corners.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.880
Uh cutting corners leads nowhere good.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:58.319
Keep doing the diligent, low to the ground, messy work of reaching and discipling men, women, and children with the gospel.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.079
Uh don't cut corners.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:05.200
Uh, and then third, uh, and I don't want this to sound trite, but trust the Lord.
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.599
The Lord will provide, He will provide what you need when you need it.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:18.880
It may not be what you want to be provided, but the Lord knows you, He knows your church plant, He loves you, He loves your church plant, He'll provide what you need.
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.640
That's what I'd say to that person.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:21.039
Okay.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.119
And maybe let's end with this.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:34.400
Um someone's listening that is um resourced, whether it be a church that has ample resources more than they need, and there are churches like that out there.
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:45.920
Um and uh or uh or a uh some an individual that loves this network, that's uh part of one of our churches that has ample resources.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:34:04.720
Uh what would you say to them um about maybe a word of stewardship, even about what you mentioned earlier about you know multiplying the mission of really seeing the network as something compelling, strategic, uh to give those additional extra resources to?
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:05.519
What would you say?
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:06.799
Josh, we'll start with you again.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:14.239
Yeah, I mean, I would say is, you know, I'm around the Redeemer Network, but I'm not, you know, I'm not an official part of it.
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:18.800
But uh there are things that you give towards that you're excited to give towards, right?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:24.880
There's a giving out of obedience, sure, we need to do that, but there's also things that just you see the impact it's having.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:42.000
And I am uh I I I would just advocate, like if you're looking for a place to see dollars go towards meaningful ministry and church planting, that the Redeemer Network is gonna be a place where you can give generously, extravagantly, and watch it multiply.
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:47.840
Um, you can look at the history, you can look at the character of the men and the women in the network.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:55.679
Um, and it's just a place where I could give my full endorsement to say, man, give uh where there's fire, let's keep pouring gas there.
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.199
That's a good investment strategy.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.079
And a kingdom investment is in the Redeemer Network.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:09.920
And so if you're if you're you know listening to this and considering, I would say first, if you know maybe a particular planter, you could go through the Redeemer Network or even directly to them.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:15.599
But let's say you don't, let's say you don't know a planter, but you're like, I love church planting, I want to help church planters.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:23.840
The beauty about giving to the network is you, you guys doing the everyday, day-to-day work, you do know the guys on the ground and you do know where funds need to go.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:31.119
And so they can give extravagantly to you and still have a very clear and direct impact on church planters.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:47.440
And so I would say, yeah, or just you'd made me think, like I think right now, I know we have a guy in our network right now who's planting a rural church and a part of Texas that needs resources because the people he's reaching as his church is growing, they don't have resources.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.320
In fact, they need resources to help those people that they're reaching in small town Texas.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:11.199
I know of a guy right now that will be in an Airbnb in Georgetown for our resident training who's planting an urban church and he's got a young family and reaching young adults in urban Austin, um, they need resources um so they can keep reaching people.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:23.199
I know another guy that uh two guys that will actually be there that are planting in a college town in Norman, Oklahoma, reaching the next generation who I don't know if you know this or not, but most college students are broke.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:33.920
So uh so to your point, Josh, I mean, yeah, like if someone hadn't is directly connected to a planter, yeah, just by all means love and support, bless their socks off.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:44.559
But yeah, we're we're we know these guys and the good work that they're doing, and we're walking with them and coaching them and training them and praying for them, and and uh and there's real needs for sure.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:37:05.360
Uh I would say to the church or to the individual, uh, first, there's no greater joy, irrespective of how much money you have or think that you have or don't have or think you don't have, there's no greater joy than looking at the resources God has given you and seeing them as not just for you, but for the mission of God in the world.
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:25.119
When that light bulb switches in your life, and when you pull up your Bank of America, where I'm at, or wherever bank you're at, and you look and you know uh God has provided for me and my family, but not just for me and my family, but so that we can participate in a gospel getting to the nations, no greater joy than that.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:43.119
Uh and my my plug for one of my plugs, the one I'll give now for supporting Redeemer Network and why uh we want to invite the entire world to jump in to multiply the mission is if you go to our website, uh redeemer network.org, you'll find what we call our multiplication chart.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:52.480
Uh it's on our website and it shows church one, and it has a line to dot to church two, to three, to four, and it's got years down below.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:56.559
And then you see our daughter and then our granddaughter churches along the way.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.559
Every one of those dots included on our multiplication chart are the church plants who didn't make it.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:03.840
Church planting is hard.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.280
Not every church plant makes it, some for a variety of different reasons.
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.719
But even in those church plants, every dot represents stories of lives changed by the gospel.
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.280
Every single one of them.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:20.400
And I when I sit back, like one of the things that I uh I love to grill.
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:21.440
I'm not really good at it.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:22.960
I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to get better.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.880
I'm I'm read as my new sensei uh when it comes to grilling.
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:33.519
Uh but I'll sit back while I'm grilling something in my little chair outside chair or L-shaped thing.
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.599
And one of the things I I love to do is just to imagine.
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.800
Just to just to imagine 50 years down the road a group of college kids.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.280
I came to Christ in college, and so for me it's natural to go.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:56.400
They're they're a bunch of 20-year-olds sitting in a room, and uh somebody's curious, they're they're they're curious about Christianity, they're wondering who Jesus is, they've got that nagging ache in their life, they don't know what it is.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:30.880
And they're asking somebody their story of how they became a Christian, and their story goes back to their mom and dad, and their mom and dad's story goes back to their grandmama and granddad uh who were angry and bitter and addicted, and then they met somebody who met somebody who was just part of this new church plan, and they just bumped up against one of those dots, and their life was changed, but not just theirs, but their kids, their grandkids, and then the college students, their grandkids went to college with.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:39.840
Every dot represents stories and not just stories that existed within the time and space of that dot.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.159
Yep.
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:41.360
Generations to come.
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:42.480
Yep, that's great, man.
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:43.199
Really good.
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:44.800
Great place to end.
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:48.159
Um, you know, I don't know if my wife listens to this podcast.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:49.599
I I would bet she doesn't.
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.440
But if she did, I think she would be surprised.
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:52.400
I think she would like this one.
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:54.000
My wife will not be listening.
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.559
But I think she would love it.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.159
Uh appreciate you guys.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:05.920
Grateful for the work that you do, your leadership of our network, Brandon, and Josh, thankful for you, man, and um the way you love and serve so many people.
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:07.199
Uh, good stuff today.
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.119
Thanks for jumping on and joining.
