WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.000
Rather than silence, our our um approach was to be louder than ever.
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.519
Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:17.039
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:25.199
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.679
All right, let's do the work.
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:38.560
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.320
My name is Brian Stanton.
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:43.679
My pronouns are they, them, and today I have with me Matt Brim.
00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.119
Hi, Matt, how are you doing?
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:46.960
Hi, thanks so much for having me, Brian.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:47.600
I'm doing great.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:48.880
It's my pleasure.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.000
Can you take a second to introduce yourself to the folks who are listening?
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:52.640
Sure.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.359
Hi, everybody.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:01:03.200
My name is Matt Brim, and I am a professor of queer studies at the College of Staten Island, which is one of the colleges in the City University of New York, TUNY.
00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:14.239
And also right now, I am the executive director of a center called CLAGs, the Center for LGBTQ studies, and that is housed at the CUNY Graduate Center.
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:22.480
And that is CLAGS is the um the first university-based uh research LGBTQ research center in the US.
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.640
So I sort of have two jobs right now, but my main job is professor of queer studies out at CSI.
00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:31.760
I love that so much for many reasons.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:45.840
One of the branches that we added to the Queering Education Conference, which is coming up in October, is a branch focused on queer research because we're finding that there's not a ton of outlets for queer research to share their research.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:52.480
Um so uh feel free to send your students our way if they've got things that they need to present or want to present.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.680
We would love to have them.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:59.680
Um, for those who are listening, the call for proposals is out until August 15th.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:01.920
Um so you know, get it in.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.040
You've got about two weeks left.
00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:10.000
Um, and I will make sure that that is available on our episode as well.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.680
But let's talk a little bit about your experience.
00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.840
What got you into education?
00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:21.919
So I after undergrad, I went to law school and I just hated it.
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.840
I stayed a semester and quit.
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:30.639
And so then I worked for a couple of years and realized I wanted to go back to graduate school.
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.759
Uh, and I ended up going back to Indiana University.
00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.879
I'm from Indiana, and got a PhD in American literature.
00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:54.560
And uh, you know, the thing that that got me really into education was just luck, because uh after I got the PhD, I got uh a postdoc fellowship, which is a temporary job.
00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.759
It's a good job, but it's a temporary job at Duke University.
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:10.000
And then um I got lucky because I got hired at uh CUNY in 2007, and that was the last good year to try to get a tenure track job.
00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.840
And so, and that's 20 years ago.
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:17.919
And in my year, the year I came in, the English department hired five tenure track professors at once.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:39.520
And we have many years since then not hired one, and so it's just absolutely luck that I was ready to apply for an assistant professorship in that year because then in 28, 20,000, uh 2028, I'm sorry, uh 2008, the market crashed.
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:52.000
Um, and and since then um it's just been it's it's been downhill for people who are looking for permanent, well-paying tenure track jobs in higher education.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:56.879
Um, and then once I got the job, uh I just I knew I loved teaching.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.599
I taught all through grad school, I taught in the postdoc.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.240
And so teaching keeps me in the job.
00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:08.240
Um, and also, really importantly, um CUNY is unionized.
00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:16.720
So I'm part of a faculty union, and that makes my job um really different from a lot of academic jobs.
00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:29.279
It gets me incredibly um good healthcare, and by good I mean it's it's uh it's affordable, and uh it gives me protection at work.
00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.399
And so being in a union job is also um what keeps me here.
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:35.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.279
I have been a part of that union when I was working at city college.
00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:54.800
Um and I love that was one of the things when I left that was the hardest uh kind of pill to swallow was just how much the health insurance cost changed between working uh for city college and being in a union position versus working.
00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:03.439
Um I was working at a middle school when I left, um, and it was just night and day astronomical, the the medical costs.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:10.079
Um one of the things you were talking about is is kind of a higher education problem than I'm experiencing right now.
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.120
At the moment, I am a technical director within an events department at a university.
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:21.199
Um, and when I was working at City College, I was also a technical director who adjuncted in their theater department.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:41.439
And part of that comes down to in my four years in New York City, there has been a one tenure track position for a theater educator, and it's like all-encompassing, which means it has to be someone who uh it it can be acting, it could be directing, it could be playwriting, it could be technical theater.
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:48.959
And my background is the technical side of things, and even though I can do the other things, they're not my forte, it's not what my my MFA isn't.
00:05:49.519 --> 00:06:05.360
And it's been a struggle because I too would love a full-time professorship, uh, tenure track, and just the the higher education economy has just tanked in that department.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:11.839
And I and to hear that it's gone as far back as when the the market crashed in 2008 is wild.
00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:13.839
Yep, yep.
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:33.600
And you know, it has a lot to do with um larger market forces and the financialization of everything, and so many CUNY, like like most other schools, is trying to find um the cheapest kind of workforce that it can.
00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:41.680
And so we have a whole lot of adjunct professors who you could you could walk into a classroom and not know it's an adjunct or tenure track professor.
00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:47.199
Like it's it's not the quality of the education, it is just that you can pay one more than the other one.
00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:53.199
And uh, and unfortunately, that is that is how um that's the the academic job market right now.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:01.040
That said, I would never discourage somebody from going to get an advanced degree because they wanted to be in the in the classroom.
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:11.279
Um, it's it's such a joy to to teach that um I think you should go in with your eyes open, but I don't think you should um only let market forces determine what to do.
00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.040
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:19.839
Uh I I still have that dream and will, and and will continue to to search.
00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.360
Um, I just uh am locked in location.
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.879
I can't expand my search because of family and whatnot.
00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:37.360
So um I think flexibility is also key when you're in the job market, is the idea of like if it's the job that you want, perhaps be comfortable moving.
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.680
Um, because sometimes the market is better in other locations.
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:54.079
I actually was offered a 10-year track position, but it is in Connecticut, and I contemplated the hour and a half drive from New York City to Connecticut uh and really, really thought about it.
00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:58.879
But the the pay with the driving just wasn't gonna be worthwhile.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.199
And so I, you know, I'm doing an adjacent job.
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.199
I'm doing half of what I would have been doing in that tenure track job.
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.959
I'm not in the classroom, but all the other work that I would be doing, I'm doing right now.
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.000
It's just in a different uh manner.
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:21.839
I'm I'm technically an administrator, um, which I'm not sure that that's ever what I wanted to do, but it's here, it's here, it's what I'm doing.
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:30.720
Um you have gone from a a master uh a PhD that was focused in in literature.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.960
How did you end up teaching in LGBTQ studies?
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:43.919
So I wrote my dissertation on uh an amazing American writer, African-American writer, James Baldwin, who also was queer.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:52.159
And so that Baldwin book really got me um my my feet firmly planted in LGBTQ literary studies.
00:08:52.480 --> 00:09:07.440
And then when the the job I have now is in an English department, and when they advertised for that job, they wanted somebody, uh such a professor of queer studies, but with a focus on um LGBT literature as well, as well as queer theory.
00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:20.720
And so it was it was a function of having um that book or that dissertation on Baldwin um come out of an English department, but also the the critical lens was queer theory.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.000
Um and so it was it was sort of the perfect job for me.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:31.519
I mean, I had never heard of the College of Staten Island before that job came up, and I was surprised that they were advertising for a queer studies professor.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:38.240
Um, but I did want, you're talking about location, I wanted to be either in New York or San Francisco.
00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.720
Uh I grew up in the Midwest and I don't need to go back.
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:42.159
I lived in the South for a long time.
00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:43.519
I don't need to go back.
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:50.240
Um, and so I wanted to be in the New York area, and it and the College of Staten Island is in the New York area.
00:09:50.399 --> 00:10:01.039
So um, yeah, that's that's the the job is I teach a lot of LGBTQ literature, back to your question, as well as uh queer and trans cultural studies.
00:10:32.089 --> 00:10:32.889
I love that.
00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:37.929
Uh I I did my when I was an undergraduate, my degree is in opera performance.
00:10:38.009 --> 00:11:04.329
And so I did all of my performance, solo performances were based off of uh queer or bi um by eluding, because the 40s and 50s were very uh closeted times, uh but queer by composers um and focused on telling the story in my program notes of how uh basically queering the story because people were like, this song is clearly about a woman.
00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:08.490
I was like, but actually it's not, or this song is clearly about a man.
00:11:08.569 --> 00:11:22.649
And I'm like, but actually, if you look at this, um, and so I've been so fascinated with writers and artists for so long uh who are queer that maybe it just isn't common knowledge.
00:11:22.809 --> 00:11:31.769
I mean, there's so many people I think about from my childhood that are queer, so many people and things that are queer-coded that I just wasn't aware of.
00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:43.370
And then I went into higher education and I was like, oh wow, like here I thought, you know, I was just this little gay kid from the suburb of LA, and there are not very many of us.
00:11:43.449 --> 00:11:53.449
And then I find out that many of the things that I was associating with part of who I was were in fact queer-coded, and I just didn't realize and I didn't know.
00:11:53.529 --> 00:12:02.490
And some of the stories that I was reading and some of the music I was listening to were queer coded, but I was just not aware of it because nobody was talking about it.
00:12:02.969 --> 00:12:07.049
So I love that programs like that exist where you get to talk about things out loud.
00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.009
Yeah.
00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:11.929
In fact, it's uh it's it's my job.
00:12:12.089 --> 00:12:18.329
So one of the ways that um you you sort of ask about my identity and how that overlaps at work.
00:12:18.569 --> 00:12:22.889
I mean my job is professor of career studies.
00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:27.129
So um it is my job to be out.
00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:31.529
Um, it's my job to um to teach what I teach.
00:12:31.689 --> 00:12:35.769
I never have to defend what I teach or apologize for it.
00:12:35.849 --> 00:12:37.610
I never have to hide what I teach.
00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:42.009
Everything I do um fulfills the job requirements.
00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:53.289
Um, and so it's a it's a real privilege that I don't have to um, you know, that I don't have to sneak things into my syllabus or try to do anything undercover.
00:12:53.370 --> 00:13:18.409
Um, in fact, I get more uh rewarded for doing my job when everything is out and and um and when students are encouraged to not hedge about their studying lesbian or by literature, or when they're asked not to apologize for it, but um just to say this is a legitimate field of study.
00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:27.129
It has its own texts and ideas and theories and methods, and it's a really rigorous, legitimate field of study, and we can do that together.
00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:41.610
And so um that's a privilege of my particular job that even other queer studies professors don't have because they might be prof uh a professor of sociology and really, you know, they teach a lot of things other than LGBT stuff.
00:13:41.689 --> 00:13:45.689
But I I I exclusively teach LGBT content.
00:13:46.089 --> 00:13:47.049
I love that.
00:13:47.289 --> 00:13:50.569
Um, I'm also curious to learn more about CLAGs.
00:13:50.729 --> 00:13:58.169
You said it was the first of its kind program, and I love to hear about how it came about and like how it's evolved over time.
00:13:59.129 --> 00:14:09.449
Yeah, so CLAGS, the Center for LGBTQ studies, was founded in 1986, and it came to the Graduate Center at CUNY in 1991.
00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.929
Um, and so 86 is our founding.
00:14:12.009 --> 00:14:15.370
We just had our 40th anniversary year last year.
00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:43.449
Um, and it started because um our founder is Martin Duberman, and with a bunch of other um lesbian, gay, by they weren't using the word queer so much at the time, people, um they were able to say, you know what, our professional life and our sexual identity do not have to be held separate.
00:14:43.769 --> 00:15:01.929
Uh and one way to make sure that they can be whole people, integrate the personal, the professional, the social, the cultural, is to create structures or institutions that encourage that kind of wholeness.
00:15:02.089 --> 00:15:08.169
And so CLAGs was created as a place um to do LGBT research.
00:15:08.569 --> 00:15:20.649
And um it was it was also created in '86, which is you know a really tough moment in the US for um queer people, gay men, um, poor people because of AIDS.
00:15:20.969 --> 00:15:24.649
And so it was it was created in a moment of crisis.
00:15:24.809 --> 00:15:35.529
And so there's there's a way in which the academic um uh center is a kind of response to the crisis in not in a formal um professional way.
00:15:35.849 --> 00:15:38.490
It has changed a lot.
00:15:38.729 --> 00:15:52.490
Um, it we used to be called the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, and now we're called uh LGBTQ studies, and that term isn't, you know, that that acronym is not, doesn't say everything we want it to say, but that's where we are right now.
00:15:52.889 --> 00:16:04.009
Um we have it's an interesting structure because we do have uh offices at the grad center, and there's an executive director, that's me, and then we have a very small staff of like two.
00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:09.610
Um, but we have a big board of directors who work really hard uh for the organization.
00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:14.649
They do tons of programming, um, and we offer fellowships.
00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:28.889
And um, and today I think that uh one of the things we think about is um more than ever is the precarity of people coming after us, graduate students, especially.
00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:48.569
There's just a lot of precarity, not only in terms of the job market, which we talked about a little bit, but they're being attacked for uh studying what for decades we have felt like we could study and and and not be ostracized or or defunded.
00:16:48.809 --> 00:17:04.170
And so we've had graduate students whose work is in transgender studies um have anxiety about presenting themselves as trans scholars, trans studies scholars.
00:17:04.730 --> 00:17:16.730
Um, and that's because the the current uh administration is targeting trans people as well as immigrants, as well as uh people of color and DEI uh initiatives.
00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:18.170
And so they really feel that pressure.
00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:32.250
It's a it's a very tough time um for a lot of people who are being told from the top of the the power stratosphere in the US that you don't belong.
00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:41.370
And so CLAGs right now, part of our job is just to reassure people in all kinds of ways that you do belong here and the work that you do belongs.
00:17:41.850 --> 00:17:42.490
Yeah.
00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:54.250
I was wondering about that whether or not um there has been a negative impact based off of recent um administration administrative decisions.
00:17:54.410 --> 00:18:08.009
I've seen with like K-12 educators who have had EEOC complaints over discrimination in the schools that they've worked in, receive blatant uh responses that are like, it's coming from the top.
00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:10.410
We can't investigate you because you're trans.
00:18:10.570 --> 00:18:13.690
We can't investigate the discrimination against you because you're trans.
00:18:14.090 --> 00:18:32.650
And I've seen it ha uh in the arts realm because uh the grant funding for the arts quite very, very specifically says you cannot say anything related to like gender identity, uh sexual orientation, being marginalized.
00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:34.810
Like there's a laundry list of words you can't say.
00:18:34.890 --> 00:18:39.850
And I was like, oh, well, I quite literally cannot even apply.
00:18:40.090 --> 00:18:46.650
If I applied with my pronouns the way that I present my pronouns, I would be tossed out immediately.
00:18:46.730 --> 00:18:52.490
And I've seen um arts organizations who lose their funding for the same purpose.
00:18:52.570 --> 00:19:05.850
Uh right now, Teaching While Queer has a grant from um the Heritage Foundation, not the Heritage Foundation, uh Heritage NYC, which is the organization that funds pride in NY in New York City.
00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:29.450
And um many of the other organizations that we're working with who received this grant opportunity with us, uh, these community grants, had funding that got cut from them for filmmaking and documentary services where they're just trying to tell people stories, but because those stories are black or queer or trans, their money was just taken right out of them.
00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:39.930
And they had to go from having a whole research team and a whole um documentary team to just the three of them working on it by themselves because they founded the organization.
00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:44.410
Um, huge strides backwards from where they had been a couple of years ago.
00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:44.970
Yeah.
00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:46.170
Um yeah.
00:19:46.330 --> 00:19:51.850
I mean, the the funding landscape right now is um it's a mess.
00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:59.850
I was just talking to a woman from um uh organization Australia who and she studies LGBT funding.
00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:14.330
And right now, in certainly in the US, um people as you I think have experienced just aren't applying uh for certain grants that they might have once applied for.
00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:19.050
It's also true that those grants just don't exist anymore because the funding has been withdrawn.
00:20:19.370 --> 00:20:23.050
So there's a gap, there's a funding gap.
00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:31.610
And what needs to happen is other funds, other monies need to come in uh to make up for uh what's been taken away.
00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:35.450
And people aren't sure about what how to fill the gap.
00:20:35.610 --> 00:20:42.410
Um CLAGS has a really great um audience.
00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:47.210
Uh we have a lot of people who are who come to our events uh who are really invested.
00:20:47.370 --> 00:20:57.130
We have 40 years of uh of people who have served on the board of trustees, we have decades of offering um uh prizes, fellowships to people.
00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:01.370
Um, and then we just have a community that is is really loyal.
00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:09.210
And so one thing that we can do is we can ask individuals for small donations, and that is that's getting us through.
00:21:09.370 --> 00:21:13.130
And then every once in a while, somebody will give us a really big donation.
00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:20.890
Often they've had a long history with CLAGs, and um, and so they know that this is a time when they can step up for us.
00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:41.050
Um, Martin Duberman, I mentioned his name, uh James Saslow, two years ago or January 25, gave us$100,000 endowments, and we don't get those all the time, but he understood that a crisis was on its way and that he that we would need that kind of help.
00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:42.890
And so we really appreciate it.
00:21:43.050 --> 00:21:58.009
Um, but other organizations are different from CLAGs and might not be able to turn to individuals, and and they might feel more like they're competing for money for LGBT money with other LGBT organizations, and we don't feel so much like that.
00:21:58.170 --> 00:21:59.450
It's a tough moment.
00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:01.529
It really is, and it's hard.
00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:20.330
It is hard when you're a nonprofit organization or even a solo artist or researcher to be going for these pots of money and then to feel that scarcity uh mindset to feel like if I take this, then somebody else isn't going to get this, and and it really does feel competitive.
00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:29.930
And I try to put people's mind at ease in the sense of like, so you put your best foot forward and they will assess, you know, which which funds.
00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:35.370
They can give to which organizations based off of what aligns best with their values and their mission and whatnot.
00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:43.850
And there it really is out of Europeans, but if you self-censor, um, then you don't have an opportunity.
00:22:44.090 --> 00:22:50.650
I just had this conversation with a consultant because they're like, where are you getting donations from for teaching while queer?
00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:54.009
And I said, Well, we're doing a terrible job at asking.
00:22:54.250 --> 00:22:56.410
Um and that's just it.
00:22:56.570 --> 00:23:01.210
If you don't ask, then you you don't receive, there's no possibility of it.
00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:33.130
And saying that, I will counter it with if you are in a situation where doing the asking could potentially put you in danger, then you assess whether or not that's that is something you can do because there are real world things happening right now and organizations that were incredibly supportive, that are not as supportive, that just you know being on this list could put you in the libs of TikTar, uh TikTok mailing list, it could get you doxxed.
00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:39.610
If those things are actual reality uh based off of what you're trying to apply for, then you have to assess.
00:23:39.850 --> 00:23:48.890
But yeah, if there are things where you're worried because you're competing against other queer folks, someone has to get the money and let them decide.
00:23:49.450 --> 00:23:51.289
I mean, the good news, two things.
00:23:51.450 --> 00:24:00.650
One is it has um taught us how valuable collaboration is with other organizations so that we're not both trying to do the same thing.
00:24:00.810 --> 00:24:07.529
We we've collaborated more in the last three years, I think, um, than I thought was possible.
00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:27.769
And and with other academic institutions, the Barnard Center for Research on Women, NYU's Gender and Sexuality Studies Program, Um, University of Pennsylvania, University of Toronto, people with resources um have been incredibly responsive and willing to share those resources.
00:24:27.850 --> 00:24:33.289
And resources, I don't just mean money, uh, but but resources of experience.
00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:42.890
Um, CUNY has, as you know, students with really incredible um experiences that that they turn into knowledge, right?
00:24:42.970 --> 00:24:47.050
They have ideas that are from how they live and where they live and how they grew up.
00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:52.330
And those ideas sometimes aren't very visible to people at the other end of the ivory tower.
00:24:52.730 --> 00:24:58.570
And so that's a resource that we can share, just like uh others can share financial resources with us.
00:24:58.810 --> 00:25:02.970
And the second thing I wanted to say is that you know, queers were really thrifty.
00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:05.130
Like we don't need a lot of money to do a lot.
00:25:05.289 --> 00:25:08.009
We put in the legwork, the elbow grease.
00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:12.250
CLAGs runs on a tiny budget, but we just work really hard.
00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:15.610
It's a mission-driven place, and so we love the mission.
00:25:15.850 --> 00:25:21.690
And of course, there's always the risk of burnout, but we have fun usually while while we're trying to do our work.
00:25:21.850 --> 00:25:29.930
And so it, you know, going after the money is important because some things take money, but a lot of things don't take very much.
00:25:30.090 --> 00:25:38.009
And so that I think is a good message to send to people to say, when you ask, and you're right, you do have to ask, you don't have to ask for a lot.
00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:51.050
You know, you you can say, I need sometimes it's a hundred bucks, sometimes it's five hundred, you know, depending on what I just need I need uh an honorarium of$250 to pay a speaker.
00:25:51.370 --> 00:25:59.529
People happily um will donate when they know what it's going to be used for, and it's um and it's little bits that have gotten us by.
00:25:59.610 --> 00:26:03.930
And and I actually like that model more than I would love a big grant.
00:26:04.090 --> 00:26:06.810
I would love a ton of money to dump on us for other reasons.
00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:08.410
It would change what we could do.
00:26:08.570 --> 00:26:16.730
But I love the model of people making small contributions and asking us to be smart with how we use their money.
00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:18.650
Um, and we're really good at that.
00:26:19.289 --> 00:26:20.410
I love that.
00:26:20.650 --> 00:26:24.570
I uh am thinking about that as we gear up for the for the conference.
00:26:24.730 --> 00:26:35.690
One of the things on my checklist to do before August, so I guess I got a day is is to come up with our like sponsorship email and our sponsorship levels.
00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:39.690
And one of those things is you can sponsor a keynote or you can sponsor a presenter.
00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.370
One of my personal goals is that we pay our presenters.
00:26:43.529 --> 00:26:54.410
I don't know if it'll be achievable for this October, but it is my goal that as we roll out in the future that we are able to budget, you know,$50 to$100 honorarium.
00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:59.210
It's a virtual conference to pay you for your time and to pay you for your research.
00:26:59.370 --> 00:27:21.610
Because I will be honest, I get so burnt out of paying my registration and teaching one to three sessions at a conference and also paying for my entire way there and whatnot, because sometimes your institution can't pay for it, or you can get one conference without another.
00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:25.769
So you've got to negotiate it and it becomes tiresome.
00:27:25.850 --> 00:27:34.250
Uh, and I really I don't know if it's artists in me, but I really think people should earn something for their contributions.
00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:47.529
And so if you are out there and you can know that it is coming, our sponsorship email, and that we are looking for people to sponsor speakers because I'm hoping that we can raise some money and I can send checks off to these speakers this year.
00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:55.210
Um, and you're absolutely correct in that it doesn't necessarily take tens of thousands of dollars.
00:27:55.370 --> 00:28:04.730
Last year we did our virtual conference for like$300 or$3,000 total and included the platform, it included paying um our keynotes.
00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:21.850
This year I asked, I asked for like I created a grand grant application in a budget where it was a$10,000 program, and that included paying every every speaker and it included um additional accessibility resources on the website.
00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:29.690
Um we are getting about half of that, so more than the cost of our conference because I asked.
00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:31.850
Because I found a grant and I asked.
00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:39.050
And I think that um to me as a small nonprofit organization,$10,000 seemed like a lot.
00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.610
That was more than our operating budget last year.
00:28:41.930 --> 00:29:01.930
But um I asked and I got half of it, and now we have an operating budget that is more than it was last year, and I think that's the goal is you try to build programs, you kind of have to ask for your dream, and then find the space in between where it's functional and know that you have to have a backup plan just in case you don't get to do your dream.
00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:02.890
For sure.
00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:03.529
Absolutely.
00:29:03.690 --> 00:29:05.050
Congratulations on getting that grant.
00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:05.850
That's terrific.
00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:06.650
Thank you.
00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:08.250
I I almost cried.
00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:10.330
I almost cried when the email came in.
00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:11.289
I was like, no way.
00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:11.850
Wow.
00:29:12.330 --> 00:29:34.090
Um, I want to talk a little bit about the kinds of things that you've seen come through CLAGs because one of the things I mentioned at the start is that there haven't been a ton of queer inclusive spaces for educational research to be presented, like research to be presented about queer identity or um anything of that sort.
00:29:34.170 --> 00:29:41.850
And so I'm curious what kind of things um have been kind of developed and grown through the program.
00:29:42.570 --> 00:29:51.370
Um either interesting theses, if you have any that come to mind, uh, also feel free not to share if it's like this is special to this person.
00:29:51.450 --> 00:29:54.650
But I'm just curious what kind of things have come through the research.
00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:03.289
Well, I mean, so so because we're a research center, our our whole job is to give people a platform to present research, right?
00:30:03.370 --> 00:30:03.850
That's what we do.
00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:08.650
And so we just have an incredibly full programming or event schedule.
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.330
Um, and everything that we do is free.
00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:18.970
And so, and it's usually the the events are usually held at the graduate center, graduate center, CUNY's publics.
00:30:19.130 --> 00:30:20.730
Um, all the events are free.
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:25.450
We welcome all kinds of New York intellectual communities into the building.
00:30:25.610 --> 00:30:31.210
And we also, I think almost, I think all of our events are online now as well.
00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:39.850
And then we record the events and then we put them up on our YouTube channel so that if you didn't get to come in person or to watch it live, you can watch the recording.
00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:44.890
And these are ways that we give people opportunities to present their research.
00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:48.970
And this this can be maybe somebody wrote a book and so they want to do a book talk.
00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:59.289
We have a scholar in residence program where somebody can come in and we give them shared office space and a laptop and access to the databases at the CUNY Graduate Center, and then they give a talk.
00:30:59.450 --> 00:31:08.410
Um, we have last year we had two giant conferences, and um, there was the Lesbian Lives Conference in October, and that brought in 600 people.
00:31:08.570 --> 00:31:19.930
It was 120 panels, and then in the in the spring, we had a queer class relations conference, and that was like 420 people and uh 60 different panels.
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.970
Um, a lot of those panels were grad students.
00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:32.090
25% of the queer class relations conference were community folks who came in who aren't students who were professors, but they're intellectuals, just not academics.
00:31:32.330 --> 00:31:43.130
And so a lot of people had were given space to talk about their work, um, their intellectual work, um, and also their activist work and their teaching praxis.
00:31:43.450 --> 00:31:50.490
Um, and so uh the one other thing I want to mention, so that so that's one of the one of the things Clydes does.
00:31:50.570 --> 00:32:00.490
We also we give fellowships, um a number of fellowships from ranging from uh$500 or$250 all the way up to$3,000.
00:32:01.050 --> 00:32:04.490
Um, and that is to support emerging scholars.
00:32:04.570 --> 00:32:16.410
Um, we have a first or second book prize, a dissertation prize, graduate student papers, um, Silvia Rivera Transgender Studies uh prize for somebody who's doing trans scholarship.
00:32:16.570 --> 00:32:21.529
Um, and then uh an undergraduate and graduate paper prize.
00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:35.930
And so we want to encourage uh we want to encourage emerging scholars to look to CLAGS, not only to get a little money, um, but then we have a um a showcase where they get to talk a little bit about their work.
00:32:36.009 --> 00:32:43.690
Um and the one other thing I wanted to say is that last year we launched um the advanced certificate in LGBTQ studies.
00:32:44.009 --> 00:33:03.769
Um, CLAGs, uh the ED and the former co-um board chair uh Justin Brown and Laura Westinggaard designed a certificate program, did all this incredibly hard work of getting it through all the hoops, including getting CUNY to approve it and then getting the state to approve it.
00:33:04.009 --> 00:33:10.009
And then that program hard launched, soft launched a year and a half ago, hard launched in the fall.
00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:16.650
And that actually gives people an opportunity to get a certificate, a credential in LGBTQ studies.
00:33:16.810 --> 00:33:24.650
If you're already a graduate student, you can take the five-course sequence as part of your MA or as part of your PhD program.
00:33:24.730 --> 00:33:26.490
And so you end up with a credential.
00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:29.930
But this is a program also for non-matriculated students.
00:33:30.090 --> 00:33:36.009
If you're not already a grad student at CUNY, you can apply only to this certificate program.
00:33:36.330 --> 00:33:44.730
Um, you can do it in a year, it's five courses, but most people who apply are working professionals and they need that credential to advance at work.
00:33:45.210 --> 00:34:01.050
Um, we have a doctor at NYU who does um who wants to do um to help LGBTQ people who have gastrointestinal issues and problems, but the research on that doesn't identify LGBT people.
00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:05.370
And so he wants to get grants to research this.
00:34:05.610 --> 00:34:12.570
He needs a credential that says, oh, you have some kind of training and methods around LGDT in order to do the grant.
00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:14.489
And so he's part of the program.
00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:20.409
Um it can help people advance in their career as well as uh just intellectually.
00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:24.250
And so I would I would just encourage, I'm gonna say the name of the CLAGS website.
00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:27.929
It's it's cla-g-s.org, CLAGs.org.
00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:32.170
And if you go there, you will see a link on the left to the advanced certificate program.
00:34:32.570 --> 00:34:34.650
And I mentioned Laura Westingard's name.
00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:37.289
Laura is the coordinator of that program.
00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:38.329
She designed it.
00:34:38.490 --> 00:34:45.769
And when you email the certificate program, Laura is the person on the other end of that email and show it back to you and let you know about the program.
00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:48.970
I love that program so much.
00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:58.730
I uh sadly have been accepted to that program twice, accepted twice, but timing, my life circumstances haven't allowed me to actually commit to it.
00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:00.650
So I'm holding off again.
00:35:00.730 --> 00:35:11.610
Um I'm currently accepted for the fall, but I'm holding off again um just because I started in a new position uh and life seems to be throwing that kind of curveball at me.
00:35:11.769 --> 00:35:21.450
Um but it's such an amazing program that I've I mean I've actively applied, gone through the process of applying to it twice because it's something that I desperately want to do.
00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:31.050
And I'm looking forward to being able to do it in the future when I can see that my life is caught in some sense of uh settledness.
00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:31.769
Yeah.
00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:33.450
Uh I mean, keep coming back.
00:35:33.530 --> 00:35:38.409
You know, it's the it's the people can do it uh at their own pace.
00:35:38.490 --> 00:35:45.130
Um, and so some people need to get through in a year, but other people are taking two years, just taking basically one class a semester.
00:35:45.369 --> 00:35:47.690
Some of the classes are offered uh in the evening.
00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:57.050
Again, it's it's to make it we want to welcome in people who aren't used to being at the grad center, aren't used to being students, and who may work during the day.
00:35:57.130 --> 00:36:00.010
And so we want to be as flexible as we can for them.
00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:01.210
I love that.
00:36:01.369 --> 00:36:02.970
And I will keep applying again.
00:36:03.130 --> 00:36:06.490
Uh, last summer I started a brand new job working as a middle school teacher.
00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:09.690
This summer I started a brand new job working as a technical director.
00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:17.930
And so the not understanding what my fall schedule looks like yet is where I go, okay, this is not the right time for me.
00:36:18.090 --> 00:36:26.090
Um but it's definitely on my list of things to continue returning to um once I have a better grasp of my schedule.
00:36:26.329 --> 00:36:29.769
Um I really do love the work that you do.
00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:37.050
Um, for those of you who haven't been keeping up with our newsletter, Matt was one of our educators of the month earlier this year.
00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:43.930
Um and before we round out this episode, I've got just two questions for you.
00:36:44.170 --> 00:36:47.050
One, what's bringing you joy right now?
00:36:51.690 --> 00:36:56.010
So the rain has really helped my plants that are outside.
00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:07.930
And I it's silly, but I get up um and uh and my husband is a very good plant daddy, and we sort of go look at these plants together.
00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:20.970
And it is, I don't know, it's it's it's it's a part of the day in the morning and the evening where we just like check on these stupid plants and like they're flowering again, like, oh wow, they're flowering again.
00:37:21.210 --> 00:37:26.889
So I don't know, like just being at that level, like something is growing.
00:37:26.970 --> 00:37:31.610
We're helping something totally uh, I think that gives me some joy.
00:37:31.930 --> 00:37:38.250
And then I'm getting ready to go on vacation, and I have a lot of joy uh around that.
00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:41.289
Ooh, vacation is where it's at, man.
00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:42.970
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:43.050 --> 00:38:01.610
Um, but that said, you know, this is this is um it's not a special kind of joy, but uh you know, teaching at CUNY, um our students are are are some of the the poorest socioeconomically in the in the nation.
00:38:01.690 --> 00:38:06.490
Um 80% of students of color, our students often have to work full-time.
00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:12.329
They many have children or care um um responsibilities at home.
00:38:12.570 --> 00:38:28.010
And teaching that student body is a joy because they come in and um they're you know, they have as much a life of the mind as anybody else, but they have all this extra life too.
00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:32.010
Um, and it makes teaching um exciting and something new every day.
00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:39.769
And I also really respect the ethic of um, you know, so CUNY is a social mobility school.
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:46.730
I really expect uh respect the ethic of using education as a way to improve one's life.
00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:48.809
I love that.
00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:50.650
Final question.
00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:59.450
We've talked a little bit about how tumultuous this time can be, especially for people who are queer working in the education or academic realms.
00:38:59.849 --> 00:39:05.210
What message, what words do you want to send to those folks who are listening right now?
00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:16.809
People are in all different circumstances, so there's no one piece of advice that works.
00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:41.930
Um I want to tell you what at CLAGs, we were in a position, we are in a position where when other um sectors or even other universities pulled back around um race, around gender, uh around LGBT, we pushed forward.
00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:46.490
Um, we had a lot of support at the graduate student to do at the graduate center to do that.
00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:50.970
So we expanded rather than strike, rather than silence.
00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:55.530
Our our um approach was to be louder than ever.
00:39:55.769 --> 00:40:00.010
Um, it was to bring in people who we know could amplify our message.
00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:07.849
We gave an award to Angela Davis last year, and she came and accepted that award, knowing that she could help us amplify our message.
00:40:07.930 --> 00:40:17.849
We gave an award to Queen Jean, who uh started Black Trans Liberation and the Black Trans Liberation Kitchen, feeds 15,000 New Yorkers um who don't have food every year.
00:40:17.930 --> 00:40:22.809
And Queen Jean also happened to win a Tony for a costume design for cats.
00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:23.210
Yes.
00:40:23.450 --> 00:40:30.490
And so people people are because we're allowed, people see that and they want to come help amplify our message.
00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:48.650
And of course, it's it's fun to come and and and uh accept an award when you're such a deserving people, um, but it's it's also a gift to us that they're giving us by coming and saying, hey, this is how CLGs, how we can help CLAGs um be louder than ever.
00:40:48.809 --> 00:40:51.369
That is not possible for everybody.
00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:57.130
And so while that should fit us, it's not gonna fit you.
00:40:57.289 --> 00:41:10.490
I I don't know the ins and outs of K through 12 education, but my assumption is a lot of decisions that I get to make, I wouldn't get to make if I were teaching K through 12.
00:41:10.650 --> 00:41:19.849
Um and decisions around how forward to be or how patient to be have to be determined, I think, based on where you're at.
00:41:20.090 --> 00:41:24.090
Where you're at individually, but where you're at um professionally.
00:41:24.490 --> 00:41:46.889
And so I think taking the temperature, getting a feel for what's possible, doing as much as what is possible where you are, um, but but not relying on a model that doesn't of success that that is not gonna work for you, um, even if you're impressed by it, or even if you want to honor it.
00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:52.409
If that's not what's gonna work for you, then you just have to figure out how you're doing it, how to do it where you are.
00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:59.450
There's a uh an author, his name was Larry Mitchell, and he wrote this uh queer manifesto.
00:41:59.610 --> 00:42:02.889
I'm gonna say a word people don't like, because this is the title of the manifesto.
00:42:02.970 --> 00:42:06.490
It's uh called The Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions.
00:42:06.809 --> 00:42:20.650
And one of his points in that incredible manifesto was that sometimes when you're between revolutions, you're going to feel weak and you might actually be weak, weak, but that's a rebuilding time.
00:42:20.809 --> 00:42:28.170
It's a time to make connections, maybe behind the scenes, because he said that even a weak link in a chain is a link in a chain.
00:42:28.329 --> 00:42:31.610
And so I think everybody just needs to feel like I'm still a link in the chain.
00:42:31.690 --> 00:42:43.369
They need to make connections while they can, because those connections once um once the climate changes, those connections are going to allow us to be stronger than ever.
00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:46.010
So I I would just encourage people to do that.
00:42:49.930 --> 00:42:52.650
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:42:52.809 --> 00:42:55.210
This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
00:42:55.369 --> 00:43:00.490
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:43:00.650 --> 00:43:02.090
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:04.889
Until next time, keep showing up.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.000
Rather than silence, our our um approach was to be louder than ever.
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.519
Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:17.039
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:25.199
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.679
All right, let's do the work.
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:38.560
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.320
My name is Brian Stanton.
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:43.679
My pronouns are they, them, and today I have with me Matt Brim.
00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.119
Hi, Matt, how are you doing?
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:46.960
Hi, thanks so much for having me, Brian.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:47.600
I'm doing great.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:48.880
It's my pleasure.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.000
Can you take a second to introduce yourself to the folks who are listening?
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:52.640
Sure.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.359
Hi, everybody.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:01:03.200
My name is Matt Brim, and I am a professor of queer studies at the College of Staten Island, which is one of the colleges in the City University of New York, TUNY.
00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:14.239
And also right now, I am the executive director of a center called CLAGs, the Center for LGBTQ studies, and that is housed at the CUNY Graduate Center.
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:22.480
And that is CLAGS is the um the first university-based uh research LGBTQ research center in the US.
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.640
So I sort of have two jobs right now, but my main job is professor of queer studies out at CSI.
00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:31.760
I love that so much for many reasons.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:45.840
One of the branches that we added to the Queering Education Conference, which is coming up in October, is a branch focused on queer research because we're finding that there's not a ton of outlets for queer research to share their research.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:52.480
Um so uh feel free to send your students our way if they've got things that they need to present or want to present.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.680
We would love to have them.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:59.680
Um, for those who are listening, the call for proposals is out until August 15th.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:01.920
Um so you know, get it in.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.040
You've got about two weeks left.
00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:10.000
Um, and I will make sure that that is available on our episode as well.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.680
But let's talk a little bit about your experience.
00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.840
What got you into education?
00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:21.919
So I after undergrad, I went to law school and I just hated it.
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.840
I stayed a semester and quit.
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:30.639
And so then I worked for a couple of years and realized I wanted to go back to graduate school.
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.759
Uh, and I ended up going back to Indiana University.
00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.879
I'm from Indiana, and got a PhD in American literature.
00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:54.560
And uh, you know, the thing that that got me really into education was just luck, because uh after I got the PhD, I got uh a postdoc fellowship, which is a temporary job.
00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.759
It's a good job, but it's a temporary job at Duke University.
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:10.000
And then um I got lucky because I got hired at uh CUNY in 2007, and that was the last good year to try to get a tenure track job.
00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.840
And so, and that's 20 years ago.
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:17.919
And in my year, the year I came in, the English department hired five tenure track professors at once.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:39.520
And we have many years since then not hired one, and so it's just absolutely luck that I was ready to apply for an assistant professorship in that year because then in 28, 20,000, uh 2028, I'm sorry, uh 2008, the market crashed.
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:52.000
Um, and and since then um it's just been it's it's been downhill for people who are looking for permanent, well-paying tenure track jobs in higher education.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:56.879
Um, and then once I got the job, uh I just I knew I loved teaching.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.599
I taught all through grad school, I taught in the postdoc.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.240
And so teaching keeps me in the job.
00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:08.240
Um, and also, really importantly, um CUNY is unionized.
00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:16.720
So I'm part of a faculty union, and that makes my job um really different from a lot of academic jobs.
00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:29.279
It gets me incredibly um good healthcare, and by good I mean it's it's uh it's affordable, and uh it gives me protection at work.
00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.399
And so being in a union job is also um what keeps me here.
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:35.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.279
I have been a part of that union when I was working at city college.
00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:54.800
Um and I love that was one of the things when I left that was the hardest uh kind of pill to swallow was just how much the health insurance cost changed between working uh for city college and being in a union position versus working.
00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:03.439
Um I was working at a middle school when I left, um, and it was just night and day astronomical, the the medical costs.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:10.079
Um one of the things you were talking about is is kind of a higher education problem than I'm experiencing right now.
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.120
At the moment, I am a technical director within an events department at a university.
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:21.199
Um, and when I was working at City College, I was also a technical director who adjuncted in their theater department.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:41.439
And part of that comes down to in my four years in New York City, there has been a one tenure track position for a theater educator, and it's like all-encompassing, which means it has to be someone who uh it it can be acting, it could be directing, it could be playwriting, it could be technical theater.
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:48.959
And my background is the technical side of things, and even though I can do the other things, they're not my forte, it's not what my my MFA isn't.
00:05:49.519 --> 00:06:05.360
And it's been a struggle because I too would love a full-time professorship, uh, tenure track, and just the the higher education economy has just tanked in that department.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:11.839
And I and to hear that it's gone as far back as when the the market crashed in 2008 is wild.
00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:13.839
Yep, yep.
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:33.600
And you know, it has a lot to do with um larger market forces and the financialization of everything, and so many CUNY, like like most other schools, is trying to find um the cheapest kind of workforce that it can.
00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:41.680
And so we have a whole lot of adjunct professors who you could you could walk into a classroom and not know it's an adjunct or tenure track professor.
00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:47.199
Like it's it's not the quality of the education, it is just that you can pay one more than the other one.
00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:53.199
And uh, and unfortunately, that is that is how um that's the the academic job market right now.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:01.040
That said, I would never discourage somebody from going to get an advanced degree because they wanted to be in the in the classroom.
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:11.279
Um, it's it's such a joy to to teach that um I think you should go in with your eyes open, but I don't think you should um only let market forces determine what to do.
00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.040
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:19.839
Uh I I still have that dream and will, and and will continue to to search.
00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.360
Um, I just uh am locked in location.
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.879
I can't expand my search because of family and whatnot.
00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:37.360
So um I think flexibility is also key when you're in the job market, is the idea of like if it's the job that you want, perhaps be comfortable moving.
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.680
Um, because sometimes the market is better in other locations.
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:54.079
I actually was offered a 10-year track position, but it is in Connecticut, and I contemplated the hour and a half drive from New York City to Connecticut uh and really, really thought about it.
00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:58.879
But the the pay with the driving just wasn't gonna be worthwhile.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.199
And so I, you know, I'm doing an adjacent job.
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.199
I'm doing half of what I would have been doing in that tenure track job.
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.959
I'm not in the classroom, but all the other work that I would be doing, I'm doing right now.
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.000
It's just in a different uh manner.
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:21.839
I'm I'm technically an administrator, um, which I'm not sure that that's ever what I wanted to do, but it's here, it's here, it's what I'm doing.
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:30.720
Um you have gone from a a master uh a PhD that was focused in in literature.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.960
How did you end up teaching in LGBTQ studies?
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:43.919
So I wrote my dissertation on uh an amazing American writer, African-American writer, James Baldwin, who also was queer.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:52.159
And so that Baldwin book really got me um my my feet firmly planted in LGBTQ literary studies.
00:08:52.480 --> 00:09:07.440
And then when the the job I have now is in an English department, and when they advertised for that job, they wanted somebody, uh such a professor of queer studies, but with a focus on um LGBT literature as well, as well as queer theory.
00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:20.720
And so it was it was a function of having um that book or that dissertation on Baldwin um come out of an English department, but also the the critical lens was queer theory.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.000
Um and so it was it was sort of the perfect job for me.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:31.519
I mean, I had never heard of the College of Staten Island before that job came up, and I was surprised that they were advertising for a queer studies professor.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:38.240
Um, but I did want, you're talking about location, I wanted to be either in New York or San Francisco.
00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.720
Uh I grew up in the Midwest and I don't need to go back.
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:42.159
I lived in the South for a long time.
00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:43.519
I don't need to go back.
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:50.240
Um, and so I wanted to be in the New York area, and it and the College of Staten Island is in the New York area.
00:09:50.399 --> 00:10:01.039
So um, yeah, that's that's the the job is I teach a lot of LGBTQ literature, back to your question, as well as uh queer and trans cultural studies.
00:10:32.089 --> 00:10:32.889
I love that.
00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:37.929
Uh I I did my when I was an undergraduate, my degree is in opera performance.
00:10:38.009 --> 00:11:04.329
And so I did all of my performance, solo performances were based off of uh queer or bi um by eluding, because the 40s and 50s were very uh closeted times, uh but queer by composers um and focused on telling the story in my program notes of how uh basically queering the story because people were like, this song is clearly about a woman.
00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:08.490
I was like, but actually it's not, or this song is clearly about a man.
00:11:08.569 --> 00:11:22.649
And I'm like, but actually, if you look at this, um, and so I've been so fascinated with writers and artists for so long uh who are queer that maybe it just isn't common knowledge.
00:11:22.809 --> 00:11:31.769
I mean, there's so many people I think about from my childhood that are queer, so many people and things that are queer-coded that I just wasn't aware of.
00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:43.370
And then I went into higher education and I was like, oh wow, like here I thought, you know, I was just this little gay kid from the suburb of LA, and there are not very many of us.
00:11:43.449 --> 00:11:53.449
And then I find out that many of the things that I was associating with part of who I was were in fact queer-coded, and I just didn't realize and I didn't know.
00:11:53.529 --> 00:12:02.490
And some of the stories that I was reading and some of the music I was listening to were queer coded, but I was just not aware of it because nobody was talking about it.
00:12:02.969 --> 00:12:07.049
So I love that programs like that exist where you get to talk about things out loud.
00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.009
Yeah.
00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:11.929
In fact, it's uh it's it's my job.
00:12:12.089 --> 00:12:18.329
So one of the ways that um you you sort of ask about my identity and how that overlaps at work.
00:12:18.569 --> 00:12:22.889
I mean my job is professor of career studies.
00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:27.129
So um it is my job to be out.
00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:31.529
Um, it's my job to um to teach what I teach.
00:12:31.689 --> 00:12:35.769
I never have to defend what I teach or apologize for it.
00:12:35.849 --> 00:12:37.610
I never have to hide what I teach.
00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:42.009
Everything I do um fulfills the job requirements.
00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:53.289
Um, and so it's a it's a real privilege that I don't have to um, you know, that I don't have to sneak things into my syllabus or try to do anything undercover.
00:12:53.370 --> 00:13:18.409
Um, in fact, I get more uh rewarded for doing my job when everything is out and and um and when students are encouraged to not hedge about their studying lesbian or by literature, or when they're asked not to apologize for it, but um just to say this is a legitimate field of study.
00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:27.129
It has its own texts and ideas and theories and methods, and it's a really rigorous, legitimate field of study, and we can do that together.
00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:41.610
And so um that's a privilege of my particular job that even other queer studies professors don't have because they might be prof uh a professor of sociology and really, you know, they teach a lot of things other than LGBT stuff.
00:13:41.689 --> 00:13:45.689
But I I I exclusively teach LGBT content.
00:13:46.089 --> 00:13:47.049
I love that.
00:13:47.289 --> 00:13:50.569
Um, I'm also curious to learn more about CLAGs.
00:13:50.729 --> 00:13:58.169
You said it was the first of its kind program, and I love to hear about how it came about and like how it's evolved over time.
00:13:59.129 --> 00:14:09.449
Yeah, so CLAGS, the Center for LGBTQ studies, was founded in 1986, and it came to the Graduate Center at CUNY in 1991.
00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.929
Um, and so 86 is our founding.
00:14:12.009 --> 00:14:15.370
We just had our 40th anniversary year last year.
00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:43.449
Um, and it started because um our founder is Martin Duberman, and with a bunch of other um lesbian, gay, by they weren't using the word queer so much at the time, people, um they were able to say, you know what, our professional life and our sexual identity do not have to be held separate.
00:14:43.769 --> 00:15:01.929
Uh and one way to make sure that they can be whole people, integrate the personal, the professional, the social, the cultural, is to create structures or institutions that encourage that kind of wholeness.
00:15:02.089 --> 00:15:08.169
And so CLAGs was created as a place um to do LGBT research.
00:15:08.569 --> 00:15:20.649
And um it was it was also created in '86, which is you know a really tough moment in the US for um queer people, gay men, um, poor people because of AIDS.
00:15:20.969 --> 00:15:24.649
And so it was it was created in a moment of crisis.
00:15:24.809 --> 00:15:35.529
And so there's there's a way in which the academic um uh center is a kind of response to the crisis in not in a formal um professional way.
00:15:35.849 --> 00:15:38.490
It has changed a lot.
00:15:38.729 --> 00:15:52.490
Um, it we used to be called the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, and now we're called uh LGBTQ studies, and that term isn't, you know, that that acronym is not, doesn't say everything we want it to say, but that's where we are right now.
00:15:52.889 --> 00:16:04.009
Um we have it's an interesting structure because we do have uh offices at the grad center, and there's an executive director, that's me, and then we have a very small staff of like two.
00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:09.610
Um, but we have a big board of directors who work really hard uh for the organization.
00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:14.649
They do tons of programming, um, and we offer fellowships.
00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:28.889
And um, and today I think that uh one of the things we think about is um more than ever is the precarity of people coming after us, graduate students, especially.
00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:48.569
There's just a lot of precarity, not only in terms of the job market, which we talked about a little bit, but they're being attacked for uh studying what for decades we have felt like we could study and and and not be ostracized or or defunded.
00:16:48.809 --> 00:17:04.170
And so we've had graduate students whose work is in transgender studies um have anxiety about presenting themselves as trans scholars, trans studies scholars.
00:17:04.730 --> 00:17:16.730
Um, and that's because the the current uh administration is targeting trans people as well as immigrants, as well as uh people of color and DEI uh initiatives.
00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:18.170
And so they really feel that pressure.
00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:32.250
It's a it's a very tough time um for a lot of people who are being told from the top of the the power stratosphere in the US that you don't belong.
00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:41.370
And so CLAGs right now, part of our job is just to reassure people in all kinds of ways that you do belong here and the work that you do belongs.
00:17:41.850 --> 00:17:42.490
Yeah.
00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:54.250
I was wondering about that whether or not um there has been a negative impact based off of recent um administration administrative decisions.
00:17:54.410 --> 00:18:08.009
I've seen with like K-12 educators who have had EEOC complaints over discrimination in the schools that they've worked in, receive blatant uh responses that are like, it's coming from the top.
00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:10.410
We can't investigate you because you're trans.
00:18:10.570 --> 00:18:13.690
We can't investigate the discrimination against you because you're trans.
00:18:14.090 --> 00:18:32.650
And I've seen it ha uh in the arts realm because uh the grant funding for the arts quite very, very specifically says you cannot say anything related to like gender identity, uh sexual orientation, being marginalized.
00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:34.810
Like there's a laundry list of words you can't say.
00:18:34.890 --> 00:18:39.850
And I was like, oh, well, I quite literally cannot even apply.
00:18:40.090 --> 00:18:46.650
If I applied with my pronouns the way that I present my pronouns, I would be tossed out immediately.
00:18:46.730 --> 00:18:52.490
And I've seen um arts organizations who lose their funding for the same purpose.
00:18:52.570 --> 00:19:05.850
Uh right now, Teaching While Queer has a grant from um the Heritage Foundation, not the Heritage Foundation, uh Heritage NYC, which is the organization that funds pride in NY in New York City.
00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:29.450
And um many of the other organizations that we're working with who received this grant opportunity with us, uh, these community grants, had funding that got cut from them for filmmaking and documentary services where they're just trying to tell people stories, but because those stories are black or queer or trans, their money was just taken right out of them.
00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:39.930
And they had to go from having a whole research team and a whole um documentary team to just the three of them working on it by themselves because they founded the organization.
00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:44.410
Um, huge strides backwards from where they had been a couple of years ago.
00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:44.970
Yeah.
00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:46.170
Um yeah.
00:19:46.330 --> 00:19:51.850
I mean, the the funding landscape right now is um it's a mess.
00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:59.850
I was just talking to a woman from um uh organization Australia who and she studies LGBT funding.
00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:14.330
And right now, in certainly in the US, um people as you I think have experienced just aren't applying uh for certain grants that they might have once applied for.
00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:19.050
It's also true that those grants just don't exist anymore because the funding has been withdrawn.
00:20:19.370 --> 00:20:23.050
So there's a gap, there's a funding gap.
00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:31.610
And what needs to happen is other funds, other monies need to come in uh to make up for uh what's been taken away.
00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:35.450
And people aren't sure about what how to fill the gap.
00:20:35.610 --> 00:20:42.410
Um CLAGS has a really great um audience.
00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:47.210
Uh we have a lot of people who are who come to our events uh who are really invested.
00:20:47.370 --> 00:20:57.130
We have 40 years of uh of people who have served on the board of trustees, we have decades of offering um uh prizes, fellowships to people.
00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:01.370
Um, and then we just have a community that is is really loyal.
00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:09.210
And so one thing that we can do is we can ask individuals for small donations, and that is that's getting us through.
00:21:09.370 --> 00:21:13.130
And then every once in a while, somebody will give us a really big donation.
00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:20.890
Often they've had a long history with CLAGs, and um, and so they know that this is a time when they can step up for us.
00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:41.050
Um, Martin Duberman, I mentioned his name, uh James Saslow, two years ago or January 25, gave us$100,000 endowments, and we don't get those all the time, but he understood that a crisis was on its way and that he that we would need that kind of help.
00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:42.890
And so we really appreciate it.
00:21:43.050 --> 00:21:58.009
Um, but other organizations are different from CLAGs and might not be able to turn to individuals, and and they might feel more like they're competing for money for LGBT money with other LGBT organizations, and we don't feel so much like that.
00:21:58.170 --> 00:21:59.450
It's a tough moment.
00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:01.529
It really is, and it's hard.
00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:20.330
It is hard when you're a nonprofit organization or even a solo artist or researcher to be going for these pots of money and then to feel that scarcity uh mindset to feel like if I take this, then somebody else isn't going to get this, and and it really does feel competitive.
00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:29.930
And I try to put people's mind at ease in the sense of like, so you put your best foot forward and they will assess, you know, which which funds.
00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:35.370
They can give to which organizations based off of what aligns best with their values and their mission and whatnot.
00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:43.850
And there it really is out of Europeans, but if you self-censor, um, then you don't have an opportunity.
00:22:44.090 --> 00:22:50.650
I just had this conversation with a consultant because they're like, where are you getting donations from for teaching while queer?
00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:54.009
And I said, Well, we're doing a terrible job at asking.
00:22:54.250 --> 00:22:56.410
Um and that's just it.
00:22:56.570 --> 00:23:01.210
If you don't ask, then you you don't receive, there's no possibility of it.
00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:33.130
And saying that, I will counter it with if you are in a situation where doing the asking could potentially put you in danger, then you assess whether or not that's that is something you can do because there are real world things happening right now and organizations that were incredibly supportive, that are not as supportive, that just you know being on this list could put you in the libs of TikTar, uh TikTok mailing list, it could get you doxxed.
00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:39.610
If those things are actual reality uh based off of what you're trying to apply for, then you have to assess.
00:23:39.850 --> 00:23:48.890
But yeah, if there are things where you're worried because you're competing against other queer folks, someone has to get the money and let them decide.
00:23:49.450 --> 00:23:51.289
I mean, the good news, two things.
00:23:51.450 --> 00:24:00.650
One is it has um taught us how valuable collaboration is with other organizations so that we're not both trying to do the same thing.
00:24:00.810 --> 00:24:07.529
We we've collaborated more in the last three years, I think, um, than I thought was possible.
00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:27.769
And and with other academic institutions, the Barnard Center for Research on Women, NYU's Gender and Sexuality Studies Program, Um, University of Pennsylvania, University of Toronto, people with resources um have been incredibly responsive and willing to share those resources.
00:24:27.850 --> 00:24:33.289
And resources, I don't just mean money, uh, but but resources of experience.
00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:42.890
Um, CUNY has, as you know, students with really incredible um experiences that that they turn into knowledge, right?
00:24:42.970 --> 00:24:47.050
They have ideas that are from how they live and where they live and how they grew up.
00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:52.330
And those ideas sometimes aren't very visible to people at the other end of the ivory tower.
00:24:52.730 --> 00:24:58.570
And so that's a resource that we can share, just like uh others can share financial resources with us.
00:24:58.810 --> 00:25:02.970
And the second thing I wanted to say is that you know, queers were really thrifty.
00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:05.130
Like we don't need a lot of money to do a lot.
00:25:05.289 --> 00:25:08.009
We put in the legwork, the elbow grease.
00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:12.250
CLAGs runs on a tiny budget, but we just work really hard.
00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:15.610
It's a mission-driven place, and so we love the mission.
00:25:15.850 --> 00:25:21.690
And of course, there's always the risk of burnout, but we have fun usually while while we're trying to do our work.
00:25:21.850 --> 00:25:29.930
And so it, you know, going after the money is important because some things take money, but a lot of things don't take very much.
00:25:30.090 --> 00:25:38.009
And so that I think is a good message to send to people to say, when you ask, and you're right, you do have to ask, you don't have to ask for a lot.
00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:51.050
You know, you you can say, I need sometimes it's a hundred bucks, sometimes it's five hundred, you know, depending on what I just need I need uh an honorarium of$250 to pay a speaker.
00:25:51.370 --> 00:25:59.529
People happily um will donate when they know what it's going to be used for, and it's um and it's little bits that have gotten us by.
00:25:59.610 --> 00:26:03.930
And and I actually like that model more than I would love a big grant.
00:26:04.090 --> 00:26:06.810
I would love a ton of money to dump on us for other reasons.
00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:08.410
It would change what we could do.
00:26:08.570 --> 00:26:16.730
But I love the model of people making small contributions and asking us to be smart with how we use their money.
00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:18.650
Um, and we're really good at that.
00:26:19.289 --> 00:26:20.410
I love that.
00:26:20.650 --> 00:26:24.570
I uh am thinking about that as we gear up for the for the conference.
00:26:24.730 --> 00:26:35.690
One of the things on my checklist to do before August, so I guess I got a day is is to come up with our like sponsorship email and our sponsorship levels.
00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:39.690
And one of those things is you can sponsor a keynote or you can sponsor a presenter.
00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.370
One of my personal goals is that we pay our presenters.
00:26:43.529 --> 00:26:54.410
I don't know if it'll be achievable for this October, but it is my goal that as we roll out in the future that we are able to budget, you know,$50 to$100 honorarium.
00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:59.210
It's a virtual conference to pay you for your time and to pay you for your research.
00:26:59.370 --> 00:27:21.610
Because I will be honest, I get so burnt out of paying my registration and teaching one to three sessions at a conference and also paying for my entire way there and whatnot, because sometimes your institution can't pay for it, or you can get one conference without another.
00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:25.769
So you've got to negotiate it and it becomes tiresome.
00:27:25.850 --> 00:27:34.250
Uh, and I really I don't know if it's artists in me, but I really think people should earn something for their contributions.
00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:47.529
And so if you are out there and you can know that it is coming, our sponsorship email, and that we are looking for people to sponsor speakers because I'm hoping that we can raise some money and I can send checks off to these speakers this year.
00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:55.210
Um, and you're absolutely correct in that it doesn't necessarily take tens of thousands of dollars.
00:27:55.370 --> 00:28:04.730
Last year we did our virtual conference for like$300 or$3,000 total and included the platform, it included paying um our keynotes.
00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:21.850
This year I asked, I asked for like I created a grand grant application in a budget where it was a$10,000 program, and that included paying every every speaker and it included um additional accessibility resources on the website.
00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:29.690
Um we are getting about half of that, so more than the cost of our conference because I asked.
00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:31.850
Because I found a grant and I asked.
00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:39.050
And I think that um to me as a small nonprofit organization,$10,000 seemed like a lot.
00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.610
That was more than our operating budget last year.
00:28:41.930 --> 00:29:01.930
But um I asked and I got half of it, and now we have an operating budget that is more than it was last year, and I think that's the goal is you try to build programs, you kind of have to ask for your dream, and then find the space in between where it's functional and know that you have to have a backup plan just in case you don't get to do your dream.
00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:02.890
For sure.
00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:03.529
Absolutely.
00:29:03.690 --> 00:29:05.050
Congratulations on getting that grant.
00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:05.850
That's terrific.
00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:06.650
Thank you.
00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:08.250
I I almost cried.
00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:10.330
I almost cried when the email came in.
00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:11.289
I was like, no way.
00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:11.850
Wow.
00:29:12.330 --> 00:29:34.090
Um, I want to talk a little bit about the kinds of things that you've seen come through CLAGs because one of the things I mentioned at the start is that there haven't been a ton of queer inclusive spaces for educational research to be presented, like research to be presented about queer identity or um anything of that sort.
00:29:34.170 --> 00:29:41.850
And so I'm curious what kind of things um have been kind of developed and grown through the program.
00:29:42.570 --> 00:29:51.370
Um either interesting theses, if you have any that come to mind, uh, also feel free not to share if it's like this is special to this person.
00:29:51.450 --> 00:29:54.650
But I'm just curious what kind of things have come through the research.
00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:03.289
Well, I mean, so so because we're a research center, our our whole job is to give people a platform to present research, right?
00:30:03.370 --> 00:30:03.850
That's what we do.
00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:08.650
And so we just have an incredibly full programming or event schedule.
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.330
Um, and everything that we do is free.
00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:18.970
And so, and it's usually the the events are usually held at the graduate center, graduate center, CUNY's publics.
00:30:19.130 --> 00:30:20.730
Um, all the events are free.
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:25.450
We welcome all kinds of New York intellectual communities into the building.
00:30:25.610 --> 00:30:31.210
And we also, I think almost, I think all of our events are online now as well.
00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:39.850
And then we record the events and then we put them up on our YouTube channel so that if you didn't get to come in person or to watch it live, you can watch the recording.
00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:44.890
And these are ways that we give people opportunities to present their research.
00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:48.970
And this this can be maybe somebody wrote a book and so they want to do a book talk.
00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:59.289
We have a scholar in residence program where somebody can come in and we give them shared office space and a laptop and access to the databases at the CUNY Graduate Center, and then they give a talk.
00:30:59.450 --> 00:31:08.410
Um, we have last year we had two giant conferences, and um, there was the Lesbian Lives Conference in October, and that brought in 600 people.
00:31:08.570 --> 00:31:19.930
It was 120 panels, and then in the in the spring, we had a queer class relations conference, and that was like 420 people and uh 60 different panels.
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.970
Um, a lot of those panels were grad students.
00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:32.090
25% of the queer class relations conference were community folks who came in who aren't students who were professors, but they're intellectuals, just not academics.
00:31:32.330 --> 00:31:43.130
And so a lot of people had were given space to talk about their work, um, their intellectual work, um, and also their activist work and their teaching praxis.
00:31:43.450 --> 00:31:50.490
Um, and so uh the one other thing I want to mention, so that so that's one of the one of the things Clydes does.
00:31:50.570 --> 00:32:00.490
We also we give fellowships, um a number of fellowships from ranging from uh$500 or$250 all the way up to$3,000.
00:32:01.050 --> 00:32:04.490
Um, and that is to support emerging scholars.
00:32:04.570 --> 00:32:16.410
Um, we have a first or second book prize, a dissertation prize, graduate student papers, um, Silvia Rivera Transgender Studies uh prize for somebody who's doing trans scholarship.
00:32:16.570 --> 00:32:21.529
Um, and then uh an undergraduate and graduate paper prize.
00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:35.930
And so we want to encourage uh we want to encourage emerging scholars to look to CLAGS, not only to get a little money, um, but then we have a um a showcase where they get to talk a little bit about their work.
00:32:36.009 --> 00:32:43.690
Um and the one other thing I wanted to say is that last year we launched um the advanced certificate in LGBTQ studies.
00:32:44.009 --> 00:33:03.769
Um, CLAGs, uh the ED and the former co-um board chair uh Justin Brown and Laura Westinggaard designed a certificate program, did all this incredibly hard work of getting it through all the hoops, including getting CUNY to approve it and then getting the state to approve it.
00:33:04.009 --> 00:33:10.009
And then that program hard launched, soft launched a year and a half ago, hard launched in the fall.
00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:16.650
And that actually gives people an opportunity to get a certificate, a credential in LGBTQ studies.
00:33:16.810 --> 00:33:24.650
If you're already a graduate student, you can take the five-course sequence as part of your MA or as part of your PhD program.
00:33:24.730 --> 00:33:26.490
And so you end up with a credential.
00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:29.930
But this is a program also for non-matriculated students.
00:33:30.090 --> 00:33:36.009
If you're not already a grad student at CUNY, you can apply only to this certificate program.
00:33:36.330 --> 00:33:44.730
Um, you can do it in a year, it's five courses, but most people who apply are working professionals and they need that credential to advance at work.
00:33:45.210 --> 00:34:01.050
Um, we have a doctor at NYU who does um who wants to do um to help LGBTQ people who have gastrointestinal issues and problems, but the research on that doesn't identify LGBT people.
00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:05.370
And so he wants to get grants to research this.
00:34:05.610 --> 00:34:12.570
He needs a credential that says, oh, you have some kind of training and methods around LGDT in order to do the grant.
00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:14.489
And so he's part of the program.
00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:20.409
Um it can help people advance in their career as well as uh just intellectually.
00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:24.250
And so I would I would just encourage, I'm gonna say the name of the CLAGS website.
00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:27.929
It's it's cla-g-s.org, CLAGs.org.
00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:32.170
And if you go there, you will see a link on the left to the advanced certificate program.
00:34:32.570 --> 00:34:34.650
And I mentioned Laura Westingard's name.
00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:37.289
Laura is the coordinator of that program.
00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:38.329
She designed it.
00:34:38.490 --> 00:34:45.769
And when you email the certificate program, Laura is the person on the other end of that email and show it back to you and let you know about the program.
00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:48.970
I love that program so much.
00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:58.730
I uh sadly have been accepted to that program twice, accepted twice, but timing, my life circumstances haven't allowed me to actually commit to it.
00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:00.650
So I'm holding off again.
00:35:00.730 --> 00:35:11.610
Um I'm currently accepted for the fall, but I'm holding off again um just because I started in a new position uh and life seems to be throwing that kind of curveball at me.
00:35:11.769 --> 00:35:21.450
Um but it's such an amazing program that I've I mean I've actively applied, gone through the process of applying to it twice because it's something that I desperately want to do.
00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:31.050
And I'm looking forward to being able to do it in the future when I can see that my life is caught in some sense of uh settledness.
00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:31.769
Yeah.
00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:33.450
Uh I mean, keep coming back.
00:35:33.530 --> 00:35:38.409
You know, it's the it's the people can do it uh at their own pace.
00:35:38.490 --> 00:35:45.130
Um, and so some people need to get through in a year, but other people are taking two years, just taking basically one class a semester.
00:35:45.369 --> 00:35:47.690
Some of the classes are offered uh in the evening.
00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:57.050
Again, it's it's to make it we want to welcome in people who aren't used to being at the grad center, aren't used to being students, and who may work during the day.
00:35:57.130 --> 00:36:00.010
And so we want to be as flexible as we can for them.
00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:01.210
I love that.
00:36:01.369 --> 00:36:02.970
And I will keep applying again.
00:36:03.130 --> 00:36:06.490
Uh, last summer I started a brand new job working as a middle school teacher.
00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:09.690
This summer I started a brand new job working as a technical director.
00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:17.930
And so the not understanding what my fall schedule looks like yet is where I go, okay, this is not the right time for me.
00:36:18.090 --> 00:36:26.090
Um but it's definitely on my list of things to continue returning to um once I have a better grasp of my schedule.
00:36:26.329 --> 00:36:29.769
Um I really do love the work that you do.
00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:37.050
Um, for those of you who haven't been keeping up with our newsletter, Matt was one of our educators of the month earlier this year.
00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:43.930
Um and before we round out this episode, I've got just two questions for you.
00:36:44.170 --> 00:36:47.050
One, what's bringing you joy right now?
00:36:51.690 --> 00:36:56.010
So the rain has really helped my plants that are outside.
00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:07.930
And I it's silly, but I get up um and uh and my husband is a very good plant daddy, and we sort of go look at these plants together.
00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:20.970
And it is, I don't know, it's it's it's it's a part of the day in the morning and the evening where we just like check on these stupid plants and like they're flowering again, like, oh wow, they're flowering again.
00:37:21.210 --> 00:37:26.889
So I don't know, like just being at that level, like something is growing.
00:37:26.970 --> 00:37:31.610
We're helping something totally uh, I think that gives me some joy.
00:37:31.930 --> 00:37:38.250
And then I'm getting ready to go on vacation, and I have a lot of joy uh around that.
00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:41.289
Ooh, vacation is where it's at, man.
00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:42.970
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:43.050 --> 00:38:01.610
Um, but that said, you know, this is this is um it's not a special kind of joy, but uh you know, teaching at CUNY, um our students are are are some of the the poorest socioeconomically in the in the nation.
00:38:01.690 --> 00:38:06.490
Um 80% of students of color, our students often have to work full-time.
00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:12.329
They many have children or care um um responsibilities at home.
00:38:12.570 --> 00:38:28.010
And teaching that student body is a joy because they come in and um they're you know, they have as much a life of the mind as anybody else, but they have all this extra life too.
00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:32.010
Um, and it makes teaching um exciting and something new every day.
00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:39.769
And I also really respect the ethic of um, you know, so CUNY is a social mobility school.
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:46.730
I really expect uh respect the ethic of using education as a way to improve one's life.
00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:48.809
I love that.
00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:50.650
Final question.
00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:59.450
We've talked a little bit about how tumultuous this time can be, especially for people who are queer working in the education or academic realms.
00:38:59.849 --> 00:39:05.210
What message, what words do you want to send to those folks who are listening right now?
00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:16.809
People are in all different circumstances, so there's no one piece of advice that works.
00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:41.930
Um I want to tell you what at CLAGs, we were in a position, we are in a position where when other um sectors or even other universities pulled back around um race, around gender, uh around LGBT, we pushed forward.
00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:46.490
Um, we had a lot of support at the graduate student to do at the graduate center to do that.
00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:50.970
So we expanded rather than strike, rather than silence.
00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:55.530
Our our um approach was to be louder than ever.
00:39:55.769 --> 00:40:00.010
Um, it was to bring in people who we know could amplify our message.
00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:07.849
We gave an award to Angela Davis last year, and she came and accepted that award, knowing that she could help us amplify our message.
00:40:07.930 --> 00:40:17.849
We gave an award to Queen Jean, who uh started Black Trans Liberation and the Black Trans Liberation Kitchen, feeds 15,000 New Yorkers um who don't have food every year.
00:40:17.930 --> 00:40:22.809
And Queen Jean also happened to win a Tony for a costume design for cats.
00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:23.210
Yes.
00:40:23.450 --> 00:40:30.490
And so people people are because we're allowed, people see that and they want to come help amplify our message.
00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:48.650
And of course, it's it's fun to come and and and uh accept an award when you're such a deserving people, um, but it's it's also a gift to us that they're giving us by coming and saying, hey, this is how CLGs, how we can help CLAGs um be louder than ever.
00:40:48.809 --> 00:40:51.369
That is not possible for everybody.
00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:57.130
And so while that should fit us, it's not gonna fit you.
00:40:57.289 --> 00:41:10.490
I I don't know the ins and outs of K through 12 education, but my assumption is a lot of decisions that I get to make, I wouldn't get to make if I were teaching K through 12.
00:41:10.650 --> 00:41:19.849
Um and decisions around how forward to be or how patient to be have to be determined, I think, based on where you're at.
00:41:20.090 --> 00:41:24.090
Where you're at individually, but where you're at um professionally.
00:41:24.490 --> 00:41:46.889
And so I think taking the temperature, getting a feel for what's possible, doing as much as what is possible where you are, um, but but not relying on a model that doesn't of success that that is not gonna work for you, um, even if you're impressed by it, or even if you want to honor it.
00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:52.409
If that's not what's gonna work for you, then you just have to figure out how you're doing it, how to do it where you are.
00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:59.450
There's a uh an author, his name was Larry Mitchell, and he wrote this uh queer manifesto.
00:41:59.610 --> 00:42:02.889
I'm gonna say a word people don't like, because this is the title of the manifesto.
00:42:02.970 --> 00:42:06.490
It's uh called The Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions.
00:42:06.809 --> 00:42:20.650
And one of his points in that incredible manifesto was that sometimes when you're between revolutions, you're going to feel weak and you might actually be weak, weak, but that's a rebuilding time.
00:42:20.809 --> 00:42:28.170
It's a time to make connections, maybe behind the scenes, because he said that even a weak link in a chain is a link in a chain.
00:42:28.329 --> 00:42:31.610
And so I think everybody just needs to feel like I'm still a link in the chain.
00:42:31.690 --> 00:42:43.369
They need to make connections while they can, because those connections once um once the climate changes, those connections are going to allow us to be stronger than ever.
00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:46.010
So I I would just encourage people to do that.
00:42:49.930 --> 00:42:52.650
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:42:52.809 --> 00:42:55.210
This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
00:42:55.369 --> 00:43:00.490
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:43:00.650 --> 00:43:02.090
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:04.889
Until next time, keep showing up.
