Managed Apps (#96)

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But I think also because their costs involves, I think IT directors are going to turn into the angry dad that in the wintertime is yelling at his kids to shut the door.
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You're going to, what are you trying to do?
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Eat the whole neighborhood kind of thing.
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So yeah, shut the lights off when you're like leave that.
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Don't leave the kitchen door or the fridge door open.
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Like all the things that we know we as parents yell at our kids about, you know, conserving like electricity and the heat and stuff.
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Like, you know, like turn off the water if you're not using it, you know, the whole bit.
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So hello everyone, and welcome to the Power Platform Boost Podcast, your timely source of Power Platform news and updates with your hosts, Nick Dolman and Ulrike Ackerbeck.
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Hey Nick.
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Hey.
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Hey, Ulrika.
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How's it going?
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It's going well.
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And then I can see that the lag is still a thing.
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So we'll see how this goes.
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We'll make the best of it.
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You are not in your normal surroundings.
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Where are you?
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This is going to be the unresolved dependencies podcasts, Joe and Seb.
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It's like, what did you have to eat?
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And where are you now?
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And where are you going next?
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And what's the quiz of the next city?
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Yeah, so I'm currently in Belfast, Northern Ireland.
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Never been here before.
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It was basically, as you know, I'm just touring around Europe, but of course, different stops at different events.
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I have one more event to go to in Thursday.
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It's the Irish Power Platform Summit.
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And I had a few days in between.
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So I thought, hey, I've never been to Belfast.
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I want to check it out.
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I finished watching Dairy Girls on Netflix about a month ago.
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So was kind of like intrigued about Northern Ireland and everything involved.
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So yeah, that's that's sort of why I'm here in between.
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It's just, you know, part of the adventure, right?
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Like you got to take these opportunities to see new parts of the world, experience new cultures.
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It sounds like you're kind of uh declimatizing and picking up the accent even now, uh, which is awesome.
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Come on, keep it going.
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To be fair, I spent the last few days in Scotland and then of course hanging out with a lot of the UK community folks, like you know, like like with uh Ian Twiddle and um Melissa and Will Dorrington and you know, all all these guys, the folks that have like the you know the English accents, and of course Joe as well, uh Joe Griffin uh and AJ, like you know, our whole cast of characters in our traveling circuits.
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So maybe you want to do this in English then.
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Maybe or I I don't know.
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I if I I don't know if I could do an Irish accent, I can I can fake I can fake my way, like the Scottish accent, like what the fuck, what the fuck is going on?
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Oh, I love it.
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That's a reason to to live in down in that part of the world, is just to be kind of surrounded by that type of accent.
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Just yes, I love that.
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Yeah.
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Alright, but we're not here to and uh talk about that.
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We're here to talk about the power platform news and updates, even though we do also like to say that we are getting into the the autumn for sure.
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Uh it's now rainy and gray and leaves are flying everywhere, which makes me a little bit depressed.
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So then of course it's good to have a list full of news.
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Yeah, and there's and there's lots of news.
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Of course, there's a you know, the turn the new terminology of the week or the new word that we have to get our our our new sentence or whatever you have to get our word around is the okay, let me try this Microsoft co-pilot managed runtime.
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Yay! Woo-hoo! And then also more uh famously called managed apps.
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And then someone told me that they're not a it's not called that.
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It's very important for Microsoft that it's not called managed apps.
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So perfect.
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So I'm gonna call it I'm gonna call it managed apps.
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Yes, me too.
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I had the same reaction that was like, oh you okay.
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No, what was it?
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Uh as a co-pilot managed, so C M C M.
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It was just it was just yeah, CMR.
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CMR apps.
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It's supposed to be.
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And then I was like, well, CRM, CMS, CMR doesn't work for me.
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So managed apps, it is on this end.
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And also, so we had managed you know, a while back we had harness.
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Sorry, it this is the lag.
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Riverside just sent you to me in double time.
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We're gonna be speaking like like you know, see like a C B, like we used to do, like like, hey, like I'll just say, uh okay, we're doing this over.
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And then we have to do over.
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And wait.
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Roger.
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Roger, Roger.
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Roger, Roger.
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Okay, this is gonna be fun.
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So when we talked about harness a few episodes ago, that was kind of the buzzword of the week.
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And this, and then we talked about runtime then as well, because that was a something my I picked up in another context.
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But now runtime comes around again.
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Do you want to kind of give a brief kind of explanation of what runtime means to you?
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Sure.
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So when I mean like when I hear like the word runtime, and we've had run times in the past as well, right?
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So you would download, and it's kind of the engine, I would say, the engine that runs things.
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So with this managed runtime, it has the you know the word managed in there as well, meaning that we have the governance built in, um, the security, the you know, the licensing or the credit consumption, and that is all the runtime.
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And basically that can run different applications.
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So even in, you know, sometimes when we have scripts, we say, well, we can run the script, but we need the runtime to kind of run the script kind of thing.
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So with the managed runtime, not only can we run managed apps, as we're gonna call them, but we could also run apps that have been built in other platforms like Lovable, for example.
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So it basically like a it's kind of the engine you kind of bolted on, and then the runtime will run this all within the context of the Microsoft platform.
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I it's and it's the thing is to remember, it's not necessarily power platform or power platform as we know it.
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There's nothing, as we said last time, there's no concept of solutions, it's not built within Dataverse.
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This will give people the ability to create apps for their department, but also I think Microsoft has indicated this could be building enterprise apps as well.
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Of course, and the fact that it can run lovable apps or you know, apps you build in Microsoft also kind of lends to the idea that potentially you could run apps built in other platforms as well.
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And then if you think about it, you including things like Code App or sorry, code apps and things like that, it's all built on a lot of times like React frameworks and connecting with the connectors that connect to the various, you know, both Dataverse and other data sources.
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There is sort of within your read some of the documentation, there is sort of they talk about the data, uh a database of sorts and it's kind of unnamed.
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So that sort of opens up a bunch more questions.
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So yeah, that's how I see runtime.
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Yeah.
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So then it's the place where you deploy the thing you want to run.
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In comparison, kind of the opposite will be in the editorial.
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So when you're creating an agent or you're creating an app, you're not, it's it's not on the runtime.
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So when you deploy it, you deploy to the runtime.
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That's kind of when it's running.
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That's when it's kind of effectively in the runtime.
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Yeah.
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So for me, this is what this is actually in my mind, because I I need mental models to be able to understand this.
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What I'm looking at this as the managed runtime is kind of what we have when we think about managed environments in Powerplatform.
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You can you have your your um admin, your governance is security already baked in.
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You have all of the same kind of capabilities as managed environments in PowerPlatform.
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It's just that you don't have to rely on Dataverse.
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So the app can be anything.
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From what I understand, it still has to be packaged as a managed app, but once you kind of have that little wrapper around it, inside it could be basically anything.
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You can connect it to SharePoint, you can use Excel, CSV data if you want to.
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You can connect it to Dataverse if you want to.
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And I saw the same thing you saw that there's a bit of a maybe there will be a kind of a data storage situation going forward, not really sure what that's gonna be.
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And then you can host it in a power platform.
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It can be tied to a power platform environment if you like as well.
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So it's loosely coupled and and like you said, you can start from various different places.
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So what was announced with was that you can now, if you have co-pilot co-work, you have then uh an app skill in co-pilot co-work that allows you to create apps from there.
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You can create it via uh co-palot studio, is now uh with the new, of course, the new harness, the GitHub harness, you can create apps from there.
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You can create it from the CLI, so you can use your coding agent of choice and anthropic models.
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You can also use co-claude co-working to get all my C's in a row.
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And that's about it.
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And then you of course you mentioned Lovable, which is probably then you know kind of the same as the CLI, which is kind of the the the ways in that we have now.
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And this caters to all types of users.
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This caters to the UX first, with Lovable create is applies to the business user or the maker, the local no-coder in in cohort.
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It uh it appeals to the agent maker in co-pilot studio and it creates and it uh enables the developer from the CLI.
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So it's uh it's very cool.
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So and and with that, so that's one announcement.
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And we talked about it last time.
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The the CLI was kind of the the thing that we couldn't talk about last time that was announced between we were in Nordic and now.
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And then also, of course, uh so you know uh Charles and Josh, they have their uh they've had the they've explored uh code apps for a while, and I saw that Charles have now renamed their newsletter to Microsoft AI First Developer Weekly.
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So that will now be mostly about managed apps, it seems.
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Yes.
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Covers also code apps and generative pages as long as as far as I could see.
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Yeah, and quick shout out to Charles.
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I saw him very briefly on Saturday at Scottish Summit.
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Um, but yeah, good again, these guys are killing it.
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Uh um he also uh I believe he won one of the community awards as well, but we'll talk more about that later.
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So yeah, this is great, more great resources from uh Charles and Josh.
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Uh or Charles and Josh, yeah, right.
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Two terms of uh yeah, the new, you know, about these new things.
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And of course, there's a lot of other information as well.
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Microsoft announcements that we'll have in the show notes as well.
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And then also our friend uh from down under, Lisa Crosby, not so much on the a little bit on maybe the managed apps, but a lot about the new changes in co-work and how they change co-pilot and the new kind of the what they call the super app, which of course also was the the big announcement in between when we uh when we met in Nordic Summit and now.
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And of course we talk about super app, it's kind of merging co-pilot.
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It's all gonna be kind of one thing, but it's still whether it uses it the co-pilot chat, and then it goes into the co-pilot co-work, and then it goes to autopilot, which is formerly known as Scout, and then of course, with all the apps and things like that.
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And Lisa put together a really, again, a really good simple explainer YouTube video going through everything, including how it's the license and the costing will be as well, which is extremely important for folks trying to figure this out as they roll this out into their organizations to make sure they have those controls and make sure that these tools are used in the probably at this point the right the most efficient way.
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So we're still we're still in the era of tokenomics and we probably will be there for a while.
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But you know, so but basically, yeah, that's another a couple other great resources as well about this, all these flurry of announcements uh in the last week or two.
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And that's probably gonna, there'll probably be more or more information leading up to both the Power Platform Community Conference in Las Vegas as well as Microsoft Ignite the following few weeks.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And I'm doing a session with Scott Duro at PPCC about comparing actually PowerPages SBAs with managed apps because we've known that this is gonna come around for a while.
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Um, and it's of course an evolution of code apps.
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So the the title of the session is anything you can do, I can do better.
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And trying to kind of distinguish a little bit also for people when to use what.
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What is the difference between a PowerPages SBA now and the Managed App?
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What can you do?
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What can't you do?
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And then also how do they differ?
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Because now that everything is a React app, everything can be loosely coupled, anything can be what you want.
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How do you then choose what to use?
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And uh, I listened to to Joe and Seb on their uh Unresolved Dependencies podcast.
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And Joe was asking Sebastian, kind of, so will you never create a model-driven app or a canvas app again?
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And of course, like Joe said, uh, as Seb said, I haven't made two Canvas apps in my life, so probably not start uh creating Canvas apps, but model-driven apps I will still create.
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I don't think that's going away.
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I don't think that generative pages is going away.
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I don't think code apps is going away.
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I think all of these different apps types have their use case, depending on where the customer is.
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Because that's the thing that we keep forgetting as we see these new announcements and these evolutions and it's cutting edge and it's private preview and public preview.
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We forget that there's still people, still companies out there that are looking to go to the cloud.
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So, I mean, depending on where you're at in your journey, there will be a different app that it caters to your needs.
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It was funny because uh at Scottish Summit, Daniel Lakowicz was kind of he, him and Melissa were doing a session on cowork.
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And then Daniel asked, Well, who here is using Microsoft Cowork?
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And I jokingly said, I use co-work for the first 17 days of the month.
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Yeah.
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So because my it's funny because my credits, because I set up a few Microsoft cowork uh like reoccurring activities and thing, you know, some autonomous agents running.
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And yep, all of a sudden I get this message in my email going, You're out of credits, and it put everything on pause.
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So it's like Uh-huh.
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Because that's what we need to also remember to say.
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And you touched on a little bit about licensing when Lisa kind of covers it in her video.
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But it's very important to understand that now with the new harness, Copeland Studio costs the second you prompt it, the first word you put in and the first enter, that costs you credit.
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And so when I um you know starting to prepare for our session and kind of demoing things out, I'm very conscious.
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The first thing I did was to have my agent write up a kind of a lab prereq to what it is that I have to do in my tenant, because that's my personal tenant, right?
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To make sure that I don't put on pay as you go and la-di-da.
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We do have some credits or I do have some credits already in my tenant, and I want to keep it low.
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So every time I do something as well, I'll go in like dash cost.
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And then I have a repo, a project, and I have a skill that had that its job is to go in every time I do something and update that spreadsheet.
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We talked a little bit about last time to keep track of the the cost and also between the different ways of creating apps.
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Because I suspect that there is a big difference between the costs of using co-work or the CLI or Cobalt Studio.
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I have no idea what lovable is like.
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I don't even know how that rate relates to to licensing.
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Um, but it's gonna be very curious to see.
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So, and I haven't been able to work with co-work at all because Iteras in Norway are uh ISO certification restricts us from sending data to the US, and up until very recently, you couldn't opt out of the entropic models using co-work.
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Now you can.
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So when I spun it up and I joined the Frontier program with my personal tenant, now finally I can just act, I can restrict it so that I can access the GPT models only.
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And that's the default because my environment's in Norway.
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Uh, and I can finally start using co-work.
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But that's taken a fair bit of time before we got here.
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And also, yeah.
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Yeah, and that's I think that's something Microsoft needs to be aware of because like there is some friction to get set up and to get going.
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And I'm sure that will get better over time.
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But I think also because their cost involves, I think IT directors are gonna turn into the angry dad that in the wintertime is yelling at his kids to shut the door.
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You're gonna what are you trying to do?
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Heat the whole neighborhood kind of thing.
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So um, yeah, shut the lights off when you're like leave that, don't leave the kitchen door or the fridge door open.
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Like all the things that we know we as parents yell at our kids about, you know, conserving like electricity and the heat and stuff, like you know, like like turn off the water if you're not using it, you know, a whole bit.
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So that's I have a feeling that now that Anne Michelle's moved out, we are gonna get the tail end of all your dad, your all your built-up dad thingies is gonna come out here and that's absolutely and can I then start yelling at you for putting recurring agents to spin things and go for work and just uh spin credits?
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Yeah.
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Cool.
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Well, yeah, of course, they're gonna shut this down.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:01.759
And it's I I must say, I must admit, I mean, I know my rare round power platform admin center and the Microsoft Admin Center.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:03.200
And of course, you admin your apps.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:15.039
So if you're going to Microsoft 365 admin center now, if you have access to that, you will see you have your co-pilot and you have your agents, uh agent 365, and then you have your apps.
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.240
That's where you manage manage managed apps.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:19.279
Jesus Christ.
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:24.720
And you can see an overview of your environments and the environment groups.
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:36.319
And then it's still a little bit fuzzy to me how managed apps relate to environments and dataverse or sorry, power platform because it is and it isn't.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:52.880
So I had a bit of trouble getting a co-pilot studio to allow me to create apps because I didn't have the environment that I was using within co-pilot studio added to the default managed apps environment group.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.799
So now that I did it, okay, it works.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:57.839
Yeah.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.759
But there was a lot of bells and whistles that I had to make sure that I turned on.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.480
There's a whole new page of settings you can set.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:16.640
And of course, this relates to your tenant settings, your power platform environment group settings, your power platform environment settings, and then of course your managed environment settings.
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.319
Yeah, I think that's it.
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:23.279
Yeah, tenants environments this is that managed to do it.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.720
So yeah, the granular control, let's put it like that.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.319
Not confusing at all.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.680
No, cool.
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:32.160
So yeah.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:47.680
So we covered managed apps, manage co managed co-pilot runtime, the new say land capabilities, and then also the new co-pilot OS for all foreign factors, as Ryan Cunningham said it.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.240
But it's that's what it is.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.440
Yep.
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.759
Oh, love these guys these guys and their terminology and buzzword, big O.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:58.799
Yeah, yep.
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:03.359
And and in other news, I thought you had some very cryptic things on the top.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.680
PPTB on VS Code.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:06.160
What is that?
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:07.119
PPTB?
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:08.319
Yes.
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:16.400
Power Platform Toolbox, as we know, is the kind of initiative led by Dinesh and, of course, our friend Cookie as well.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.119
So Cookie, Cookie won one of the Hall of Fame awards.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:24.319
So I have a video of Cooking telling the crowd to F off at Scottish Summit, but that's a whole other thing.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:31.519
So the Power Platform Toolbox, as of course, it it is sort of, I'd say, the next generation of the XRM Toolbox.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:38.000
It uh has the community that can build tools uh that you can use to build power platform solutions with.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:50.400
And it was sort of like uh, you know, so Dinesh is uh he is he he him and the other the team members have built this very much like the XRM Toolbox, but it's on modern modern technology.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:58.400
So it will run on a Macintosh, it will run on Linux, but not only that, he has now added a Visual Studio Code extension.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:12.640
So if you're working within Visual Studio Code, which which I am quite real most of the time these days, we I can also have the extension to run my power platform toolbox within the context of Visual Studio Code, which is really amazing.
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:18.960
And so that's uh that was a great announcement, and it really goes to show that these guys how they're investing and trying to make this better.
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:29.920
I just saw a link today from Dinesh on basically kind of publishing the principles for the other contributors of how to for the Power Platform toolbox.
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:35.599
Again, about you know, the fact that you know, don't, you know, don't blame IAI for your code.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.720
Like you own the code if you're contributing to this open source.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:46.640
Make sure it doesn't delete data without the users knowing or you know, give indications and kind of listed a few principles which I thought were really good.
00:21:46.720 --> 00:22:04.480
Um, a lot of them common sense items, but it's good to have these things written down to make sure that this tool is very valuable to the community, but also to make sure that anybody working, again, the IT administrator, you know, yelling at his kids to Make sure that these tools are governed and secure and will work properly.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.000
Because I've heard some people I've talked to in the past saying, I said, Oh, you, you know, you need to do this.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.440
There's an XRM toolbox.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:17.599
And they say, yeah, we're not allowed to run XRM toolbox in our environments or on our on our systems.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:23.759
And I'm like, wow, you're wasting so much time doing things by hand or the old way.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.759
But I also can appreciate the need for security and things like that.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.839
So I'm glad Dinesh has thought of some of these things and he's putting that into as principles for developing.
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.799
And hopefully that kind of appeases uh makes sure folks are a little bit more comfortable using these tools as well.
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:47.359
So I'm going to continue to look forward to more news and updates around the PowerPlatform Toolbox and new tools and coming coming forward.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.839
And also they have a lot of AI agentic stuff built into that as well.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:57.440
And there's been a couple sessions of the last few community events specifically on the Power Platform Toolbox.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:04.880
And I'd be interested to hear from the our audience as well how they're using the Power Platform Toolbox and if they're building tools as well.
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:05.359
Yeah.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.960
Yeah, it's great.
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.480
We wouldn't, yeah, we wouldn't uh survive without it at this point, I think.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.680
Uh so it's awesome.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:20.480
And also wanted to highlight uh because a few of the same people that are behind the PowerPlatform Toolbox is also behind Power Platform Dev Weekly.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.599
So that would be, let me put the names up.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:31.599
Uh that would be Danish and Cookie, Matt Beard, Ashwana, Shama, uh, Mark Harrington, and also Lynn Wynne.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.279
They have 300 newsletters last week.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:36.000
All right.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.759
That's just woohoo.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.799
I mean, come on, guys.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.319
I yeah, so we're approaching 100 episodes.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.480
I mean, 300 newsletters.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.319
Okay, we're gonna get you guys.
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:49.440
Game on.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.599
Like, yeah, game on.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.279
No, but really, I mean, and and they're they're still keeping it up to date, right?
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.160
So it's still fresh.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:02.559
And of course, these new tools that we just talked about, these new capabilities, is so code-friendly, code first.
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:09.119
Uh, there's a reason why uh Charles is calling his uh weekly newsletter, Microsoft AI First Development, right?
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.400
So it's all in the name of the developer these days.
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:21.839
And uh it's uh it's more kind of uh important now than ever, I think, to keep these new weekly newsletters floating because I think so.
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:31.039
Preparing for my session, for instance, it's very important for me to kind of gauge the audience a little bit to see what people think about these new new capabilities, new app types.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:42.240
And I see a lot of channel on LinkedIn, people are commenting on different posts, I see the internal WhatsApps that we have, and there's a lot of different opinions, but also where people struggle, what's the holdup?
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.759
Where is it not mature enough?
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:50.640
Where what needs more work to be able to kind of give uh good answers and and kind of do a good session uh in Vegas?
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:57.279
So I think these opinions and workarounds and uh known issues, for instance, that's very important.
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:03.200
And we need people's opinions about these things, not just AI gurge slob.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:04.559
Yep.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:06.880
Right.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.160
Okay, so just wanted to cover the other bits here.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.519
So do you have another link in here that's never stoplearning.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:20.319
Yeah, so of course, you know, we like to as you as as we know, we like to highlight uh blogs by new folks.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:30.319
And it was interesting because I at Scottish Summit I ran into one lady that said, Hey, you mentioned my blog post like a like a couple months ago on your podcast, and I was like so excited to hear that.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.640
So I we love feedback like this.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.759
So it was interesting.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:40.880
I was at Baltic Summit in Poland, and I happened to like randomly was sitting beside another MVP who I had not met before.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:47.759
His name is Um Michael Michael Meagle, he's from Germany, and he asked me what am I interested in?
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.039
What kind of what do I do?
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.599
And I said, Oh, I'm really big into agentic development, power platform, and his eyes lit up.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:55.119
He's like, Me too.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.880
It was like, you know, like we're like two friends who found the, you know, who like the same toys in the sandbox kind of thing.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:11.440
And he told me about his blog and we talked about uh a lot of things, but one thing he brought my attention to, and I'm not sure if you've heard about this, is the GitHub spec spec kit.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:27.839
And what it is, it is a set of tools that will, you know, are our skills rather that help you write specifications and planning documents and things like this specifically for um you know building different applications.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:33.119
And of course, this kind of spans the whole, the whole kind of spectrum of things.
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:40.480
But Michael's written a lot of articles specifically around Power Platform and using Spec Kit for that.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:53.680
So, of course, if you can start generating good specs, that means that you're gonna be more token efficient, you're gonna be building good solutions, also documentation, testing, those types of things are wrapped into this kit as well.
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.920
So it's something I'm diving into exploring.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:03.519
I'm reading his blogs because as I build things too, of course, we talked earlier about tokenomics and making sure we're efficient with things.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.039
It was just a really good resource.
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.359
So I just actually just threw the link to his whole blog.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:15.519
So I would highly recommend anybody building using agentic tools in the PowerPlatform to check out his uh his blog articles, a lot of great stuff in there.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.079
And again, very nice meeting you, Michael, in Poland.
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.359
And uh I continue to follow you and look at uh more of your stuff.
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.640
Yeah, I can see that he has a whole series on spec-driven development, which is really cool.
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:37.519
And if there's one thing that I'm struggling with at the moment, it is that the agents, they just love to be spend tokens, and so it bloats everything through oblivion.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.799
I think the thing that I'm doing the most, as I talked about last time as well, is to just keep it simple.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.559
Don't bloat it, just give me exactly this little thing.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:52.000
And I've now spent a thousand credits on one solution, and it's yeah.
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:54.799
Well, so this is good.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:07.200
This is something I like because then it it it it it already in the planning phase of your project, then you'll keep it simple, you'll keep it down, you'll keep it spec specific, and then it can't really derail and go off, which is really good.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:17.119
Another thing I wanted to mention that came to my attention was that generative pages in model-riven apps are no longer coupled to database.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.680
And this was really weird.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:30.400
I don't know how this is meant to work, but I saw this post from Michael Mendez and it's like, so what is your take on this?
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:37.839
I mean, can you just then describe a page on top of it says here, you know, SharePoint, SQL, other connected services?
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:45.039
You like a code app can be created or a manage app can be kind of put on top of connections.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.799
So you have thousands of connections like we have in in PowerPlatform.
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:50.559
That can be a data source.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:52.720
Is that now the same for genitive pages?
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:53.200
Yeah.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:29:07.440
So think about let's say I let's say we had a requirement a year ago where we needed to actually have some sort of interface in a model-driven app, but had to read from a SharePoint list or had to read from a completely different data source.
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:17.440
Our options at that time would have been to use a custom page, which really is just a Canvas app embedded within a model-driven app.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:24.880
So the fact then generative pages came along, and we thought, okay, generative pages is going to kill code pages.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:35.920
And I know Sarah and Matt's have done sessions on this as well, but the problem is code pages or sorry, generative pages up until this point could only attach to Dataverse.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:45.519
So if you needed to connect to another data source, you you you couldn't really couldn't do it unless you kind of broke into the code and kind of did it that way.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:50.400
So now the fact that it's no longer it's not that it's no longer coupled to Dataverse.
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.000
Dataverse will still be, you know, embedded or linked data source.
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:54.799
Now I get it.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.799
But now you can you can also begin to pull in all these data sources.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:07.279
So to me, this to me is another nail in the coffin for Canvas apps or code or custom pages, that whole framework.
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:10.079
I've been building some things in generative pages.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:26.720
There's some projects that I'm working on that had a that do use uh custom pages that we're looking now to replace with a generative page because just because of course you have the connection references and and also they're a little bit clunky on how they work.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.640
And of course, Canvas apps delegation, like that to me drives me bonkers.
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:37.359
Um, if you have over 500 records, then it kind of limits what it can see and all this stuff.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:42.400
So yeah, I think this will be uh definitely looking forward and gonna definitely try this out a little bit as well.
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:42.960
Yeah.
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:44.799
No, I I misunderstood in the beginning.
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:50.799
I was thinking, what would you do with the kind of a decoupled, free-flowing generative page?
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.759
But of course, it is in the context of a model-driven app.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:59.519
It's just you can create a new page in a model-driven app, and that page source doesn't have to be dataverse.
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:04.240
So then, as I said, you can show, you know, SharePoint sites, which is brilliant.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:05.759
I absolutely love the idea.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:07.839
And like I and I completely agree with you.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:15.279
Like this is just maybe killing off one of the things we talked about earlier for the new and adventurous at least.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:16.960
Yes.
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:17.680
Right.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.559
So just looking at the list of things to go through.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:24.720
Also, a thing that we forgot to mention last time because we were kicked out of the room.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:31.839
The last item on the list was, of course, our favorite um learning resource for Copeland Studio, the Agent Academy.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:41.519
The team has now released a new version of the operative recruit kind of the one after recruit, say operative, uh, recruit, operative, and commander.
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:43.440
So now operative is now out.
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:44.720
They call it next gen.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:49.440
Yes, next gen to accommodate for the new harness.
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:56.559
So when you go into Agent Academy now, you'll be able to choose the standard harness or the next gen, which is the new harness.
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:58.799
Um, and then you can go through.
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.640
But of course, the operative is uh building on the recruit.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.640
So if you want to do next gen, you have to do recruit first and then you do operative.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:11.039
It gives you the ability to kind of download the solution and add that to your environment.
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:16.240
So you don't have to do everything yourself, but then also there's a few files that import some data.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:18.640
So there is a bit of manual work to set this up.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:24.160
It very quickly goes into AI security and governance, which is really important.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:29.920
Uh, you'll learn how to set up skills and evaluations and connections, which is uh very important.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.079
So yeah, very good resource.
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:36.720
And I also saw that Scott Giro was on the community call where he presented this.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:46.640
So if you want kind of a two-for-one type of thing, watch the video first and then go in and look at the new operative next gen Agent Academy.
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:48.240
And earn your badge.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:52.079
Earn your badge! Whoop, whoop, go bit, go bit.
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:53.519
Cool.
00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:00.160
So the last one on the list is uh some uh reflections on what you've just been part of.
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:02.640
Yeah, and it it was interesting.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.839
So I as I mentioned, I was at Scottish Summit this weekend, and as always, a great event.
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.799
You know, I did uh the the opening keynote was one of the best I've seen in such a long time.
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.240
Uh from shoot, I just saw his name, a guy from GitHub.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:17.759
Anyways, it was good.
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:18.880
I did a post on it.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:25.839
But then, and then of course, like I, you know, did it did a session as well with the Melissa Hale on productivity hacks, which went really well.
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:31.680
But this one, and of course, I I could probably talk a whole episode about Scottish Summit and everything about it.
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:36.720
But I did want to point out there was I did see this article actually literally about an hour ago on my flight.
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.279
I was just looking at my phone, looking at LinkedIn.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.599
And this is by someone called Andy Kemp, who was a part, he was a speaker, um, but also a fairly new speaker.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:53.279
And to be honest, I I don't know Andy, but I saw his article and it made me kind of think as well and kind of made my own reflection.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:00.559
Of course, I go to an event, I think you're sort of the same way, but we see all of our friends, we start chatting, we start, you know, interacting with people.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.759
Of course, a lot of people are not shy, they're not introverts.
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:11.119
They come up and they'll say, Hey, we listen to the podcast or we like your session, or I follow your blog, and it's great to have the conversations.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:16.960
I absolutely love it, but I keep forgetting sometimes people are a little bit introverted, they're a little shy.
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.280
I don't bite, I'm more than happy to talk to anybody, but I also get it.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.920
It's a little bit hard to kind of meet someone new.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.800
Uh, you know, you go into a new room and okay, what do you say to somebody, or how do you introduce yourself?
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:30.960
And it's a little, it can be very intimidating.
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.960
Not because it's me, I'm just a regular guy.
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:39.360
So it's, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, it's like I'm not trying to make myself like out of a big deal here.
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:46.400
Like I joke about it sometimes, but really I'm I think it's just meeting new meeting new people is always tricky.
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:50.960
And I Andy found like at the event, you know, someone new coming in.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:57.119
It's like, how do you sort of, you know, there's there are people that are kind of in the corner and how do they kind of engage and how to do that?
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.400
So it was really good.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:03.280
And he had no, he, you know, he wasn't blaming anybody, he was just sort of kind of assessing the situation.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:10.239
Uh, it got me thinking, it's like, okay, for my own personal self, I should, at these events, I should keep an eye out.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:15.519
If there's someone that's kind of there or lingering and wants to be included, try to get a bring them in the circle.
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.960
A lot of times we say we shouldn't be standing in circles, we should be standing in use or to bring people in.
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:22.960
So that's something I want to work on.
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:36.800
But I also thought, too, at events, it would be really cool if maybe this is something we should start doing is we have mentoring for new speakers, but maybe we should also, if they're new speakers, also have a buddy assigned to them for the event.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:50.239
Not that they have to hang out all the time, but the buddy to go around and introduce to say, hey, this is Eureka, this is Scott, this is uh Daniel, this is, you know, here's Matt, you know, and hey, have you met this guy, AJ?
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:52.320
Your life is going to change from here on in.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:36:02.480
Those types of things and get people to, you know, you know, begin to meet people and then begin to feel comfortable and have these conversations and of course pay that forward as well.
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:05.119
I think this makes our community so much better.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:08.960
So it is something it was thanks, Andy, for for writing this.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:12.000
If I see you at an event or whatever, I'll try to say hi.
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:13.519
Please come and say hi to me.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:24.800
And and let's just sort of, again, I think for all of us who've been the more, you know, the senior members of the circus, uh let's make sure that we're to try to be inclusive and bring everybody into the conversation.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:25.679
Yeah.
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:27.199
Oh, I absolutely love this.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:32.559
And I remember, you know, uh Nordic Summit for me is one of the conferences that do this the best.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:41.840
I I remember the first year I was there and people were standing in U's, like you said, because Giro was very adamant at the beginning, as Hara was always saying, stand in a U shape.
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:42.880
It is very important.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.840
Vivian talks about it at Tallinn, and it works.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.159
It is so much easier to get into a crowd.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.880
At lunchtime, I'm one of the introverts.
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:52.960
Yeah, I don't, I know it's hard to believe.
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:58.079
But when I go into the lunchroom, for instance, it's really hard for me to sit down next to someone I don't know.
00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:59.440
So I force myself to do it.
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:04.559
And every time I end up having these great conversations and, you know, learn to know new people.
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.800
So I I absolutely appreciate this.
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:21.840
And also wanted to mention that now that Marcel 365 and Power Platform kids are coming together, I think this skill becomes more important now than ever before because we are emerging and we need to get to know each other and we need to create open spaces.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:30.880
And like you said, seeing one standing alone, sitting alone somewhere, asking, hey, you know, do you do you want to hang out for a little bit is a very good skill to have.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.239
And not everyone is a as a we were very different that way.
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:42.400
You talk to you know, a bazillion people, and I keep to myself and you introduce me to so many people, and without you, I would be very lonely at these events.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:44.880
So I think we need people like you, more people like you.
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:45.440
So yeah.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:46.320
So thank you for that.
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:49.039
And and and people like Andy to call us out on it as well.
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:50.239
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:51.599
Andy, that's very good.
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:58.880
And also on the topic of market of 365 people, there were some community awards at Scottish Summit this year.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:37:59.920
Yes.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:15.920
So we won't go through the full list because there's a there's a lot of everything, but of course, our the Power Platform Boost podcast was a nominee or a runner-up, I guess, a finalist for Best Podcast, along with um Joe and Sebastian for Unresolved Dependencies.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:23.199
Um, and then Mar, hopefully get this at Marin and Steve uh for their podcast M365 Distilled.
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:27.119
Um now they've been running their like 175 episodes.
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:34.000
Uh they had they actually had their equipment set up and they were running Scottish Summit TV while there.
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.239
So our equipment's pretty simple.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:40.480
I have a pocket Osmo and the little mic for my travel kit.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:48.559
Um and but Steve, I think, had enough equipment to run a small moon mission for all the podcasting stuff.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:59.119
So definitely congratulate and they so they ended up winning the best podcast and congratulations to both of them or sort of them and their team for uh for the podcast that they do.
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.760
And uh yeah, and so yeah, next year, next year we're gonna get it.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:15.519
And then and also, like I said to you um when I texted you after, I said, like, no, we need to both be there when when we win an award, maybe someday, we need to both be there to get it at the same time.
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.400
So maybe that's why we haven't won it yet, because we haven't been there at the same time for a very long time.
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.239
And so maybe we're just jinxing it.
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:22.719
Yeah.
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:23.199
That's it.
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:25.599
No, uh Scottish Summit is very important to me.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:32.960
Uh I have fond memories, for instance, from the time that I was Joker at the drug show, which is very cool.
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.000
And I'm excited to come back to Scottish Summit as some other time.
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:39.840
But they do every other year and they alternate with uh South Coast Summit.
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:43.599
So I believe next year is gonna be South Coast, which I've never been to.
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:44.960
So I'm hoping to go there.
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:46.880
So that's gonna be very, very cool.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:48.719
All right, let's wrap this up.
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.360
We I hope to see you all.
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:52.559
Not you, Nick.
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.159
Unfortunately, you're not going to Vegas because you're doing your power lifting instead, you know, priorities.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.199
But I'm going to Vegas for a power platform community conference.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:08.320
So make sure you check that out and come to my session with Scott Juro uh and see manage apps and power pages babble it out.
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.239
There might be some singing and dancing, just putting it out there.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.159
I hope Scott don't kill me for that.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:23.840
And and also I will be at ESPC uh in Amsterdam uh for a Microsoft 365 and AI conference uh by the same people that do ePPC.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.280
So I can't wait.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:31.440
And you are gonna be in Belfast for a little while, and then you're gonna go to Dublin.
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:32.239
Yep.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.480
Yep, for the Irish Power Platform Summit.
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:35.360
That's on Thursday.
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:40.400
So it'd be actually, yeah, if this if we do release this on time, it will be tomorrow.
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:42.800
Well, tomorrow if this gets released on Wednesday.
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:43.599
Yep.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.320
So yeah, yeah, looking forward to that.
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:49.039
Joe Gill, Joe Gill puts this on every year.
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:50.159
I missed it last year.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.199
I was there two years ago.
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:57.280
Really looking forward to engaging with the community and again making sure that everybody's included in the conversations.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:02.960
I'm doing a session on agentic development and in power apps, like what I did in Baltic Summit.
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:05.280
And then, yeah, and then I'm going going home.
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:10.480
And uh my daughter also be visiting home the pretty much the same the day after I arrived back home.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:13.760
So really looking forward, and it would be Canadian Thanksgiving.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:22.800
Yeah, it's it I'm having a blast on this trip, seeing a lot of friends, having a lot of great time, and uh, but it's also it's good to get home too for a bit.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:25.199
And of course, we I saw you last week.
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:26.800
We hung out for a day.
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:30.800
Uh we went, we went, we toured around, we went rock collecting.
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:34.320
Yes, had ice cream, it was a beautiful sunny day.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.639
We walked a thousand miles, had sushi.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.480
It was uh yeah, it was it was a it was a very cool day, it was a lot of fun.
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:42.079
And uh yeah, looking forward.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:49.679
Yeah, you two so our next episode, October 21st.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.480
So yeah, fall is continuing.
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:57.920
So probably I'll record somewhere in the Las Vegas area.
00:41:58.719 --> 00:41:59.599
Okay, cool.
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:09.199
Yeah, all right, okay, until then, take care and enjoy the fall and get the hell out into the uh wilderness before it closes over with snow and stuff.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.000
And enjoy.
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:10.559
All right.
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:11.360
Catch you later.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:11.920
Bye folks.
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:12.719
Bye bye.
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:16.320
Thank you for listening.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:21.280
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00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:25.679
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00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:27.920
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00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:32.400
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00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:38.880
Thank you for listening to the Power Platform Boost Podcast with your hosts Lurika Akabek and Nick Dolman.
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:43.519
See you next time for your timely boost of Power Platform news and updates.