Pit Yakka: you Right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Pick Out A Crack. This one is the monthly kickabout. I've got my normal lads with me. I'm Sonny Brightwell, one of the hosts. I've got the normal team with me. I've got Stuart Brightwell here and I've got Tommy Miller there. Welcome lads. Are you well? Yeah, all good. All good. Now before I introduce my guest, I just want to say something. If you're thinking, is this just a good looking version of Under The Cosh? You're right, it is. Or is this an intelligent, the rest is football? Yes, it's that as well. Let's move on to the guest. The guest is James Winter. Welcome James. So James has ⁓ a long history in football from starting out as Hartlepool United, then moving into the non league scene, played a lot of non league football and coaching, which is where I know you from. James coaching the Durham County under 10s maybe at the time through to 17s or 18s or something. Started under eights and I think you went through when came. about under 10s all the way through. Yeah. And then we sort of, I started working with you. You were the manager. I started working with you for eight years, wasn't it? Until they were under 18s. And we had a good last season as well. So that's our relationship there. So James, can I just ask, can you introduce yourself and just tell us who you are and sort of, you know, the clubs you've played for, et Doesn't have to be an exhaustive list, but just some of the non-league clubs you've played for. James Wintour. ⁓ Gold caper, played clubs like Durham City, Horden, Ryde Colerary Welfare, Newton Air Glyph, South Shales, but a few. Are you still playing at the minute? No, ⁓ Tommy PCL in July. I was planning on playing over 40s and a little bit on a Sunday, but I knocked Saturdays on the head. as a coach and other team as well. once that I got on the teams and stopped, I just knocked it on head for free time with family. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what mine was when I eventually, he eventually finished playing Sunday league and then B with the coaching. was a big commitment wasn't it? The coaching even, and you're still doing it, but it was, I think it was the end of the road for me. So where did you grow up and how did you get into the madness of goalkeeping? ⁓ grew up on Sherbourne Road Estates. So a of a rougher state to grow up on, but it was fantastic. Loved it. Had a lot of football and people around us and it was just a local bloke. Wanted to start a kids football team because we had nothing. ⁓ Which obviously eventually turned into Durham County, what we coached at. That's why I went back to the club. And I was originally, played outfield and it was just... We had no goalkeeper one day and it's just a big puddle in the middle of the goal mouth. The manager was like, who wants a playing goal? A few hands shot or whoever dives in that head first, I'll be the goalkeeper. And I was the idiot that done this. I was this, I was goalkeeper from then. Yeah. But you still played out a bit, didn't Every now and again on a Sunday or obviously once I got released from Hartley Pearl, I played on a Sunday and that and played out, played out throughout like... my boys club till under 12s. I was at Middlesbrough, scouted for Middlesbrough when I was 10 and they let us play up until I was 13. I played outfield, the boys club for a little bit and just enjoyed it. Ultimately, just loved playing in goal and the pressure of playing in goal. Yeah. So you were picked up by Baraway. I know that probably wasn't academies then, there? was ⁓ Centre of Excellence from like when I was 10. And then when I hit under 12s, I think it was, you signed your school boy forms and basically they signed us up until I was like under 16s ready to leave school and made the decision on if you were good enough to get your scholarship or not. And fortunately I wasn't. Yeah. So you were there under 16s? Under 16s. Right. Okay. Okay. And then made the decision that you weren't for them. Yeah. Yeah. Just, just obviously there was better goalkeepers, yeah, below us and above us and not the tallest and basically they said I had everything they were looking for by the height and there was people just ahead of us. So it was a hard one to take, but I was fortunate enough to have another couple of clubs interested in. Harley-Pill, one of them, and I just made the decision to go to Harley-Pill because it was on the doorstep as well. know, good club. yeah. a quick one on that. Just sorry for interrupting, but in this day and age, I think you see a lot of goalkeepers who aren't the biggest. You know what you think, you maybe might have had a better chance. I know it's easy to sort of ask this question, but nowadays it'll look as if you can play with your feet and stuff and they don't particularly look. Size, I think size doesn't matter. Maybe it's a factor, obviously, if you've been released in too small. I wonder if that would have changed sort of nowadays. You never know. Yeah, personally, like, I think it was probably the right decision. The was better goalkeepers at Middlesbrough than me at the time. Ross Turnbull was the year above. He went on to Chelsea and although he didn't play but he's a Champions League winner. David Knight was below here, went and played at Swansea and stuff and they were a little bit taller than me and don't get us wrong in training and in games, I thought to myself, I've got a chance here. I'm just as good as them. Obviously they had to make that decision. But it helped in the long run because I had a fantastic four or five yard Harley Pils. It's a great question though, because when you look at the way the game used to be, it was a lot of crosses into the box. You had to be coming and getting them, didn't you? Or it was big punts upfield and stuff like that. So I think the game has changed a little bit, that, pay me a feed bit. It's massive, isn't it? think academies nowadays are looking for goalkeepers. I remember we signed a goalkeeper. When I was at Spennymoor, I won't say the name and first question I asked him was, what do you believe your biggest strength is? He said my biggest strength's me, the distribution. And I used to always think goalkeepers obviously, your first job is to keep the ball out of the net, really, to make saves, you know, and be that sort of presence in the net. But his sort of answer to me was, now I'm distribution's my biggest strength, which sort of raised my eyebrows a little bit. But yeah, I think as the games gone on and developed, it's certainly good with your feed in. start the tax off rather than kick it long and aim for the big striker. At the academy level. definitely think it comes down to kind of what way the club plays, what way the team plays. take South Shields for instance, obviously Bustards got an unbelievable method of playing out from the back and dominating the ball. Now their goalkeeper got injured, Kasper Schaik, I've seen him a few times, he is unbelievable with his feet, not the biggest. If he was a few inches bigger, he would never have been a South Shields, he would have been Cause he's that good with his feet. Like he's sensational when you watch him with his feet. And I think if you're a club that wants to play that way, they're not bothered about the height. Cause he will be able to, I don't care what anybody says, even you James, know, people you'll still be able to jump probably six foot, seven, six foot eight with your hands up there easily. Probably more seven foot when you jump in with your hands up. So I don't get the size thing for me again, if I was in charge of a team, my first thing would, can you play off from the back? Because if you can't, then you're no good for me. That would be the way I would play. But not everybody's like that, you know? No, but not with me as well, like not just the height. I was like a little skinny, skinny rake. I was probably nine, so one went through and as I got older, like in my hearty pool days, like tried getting into the gym and I just, just could not seem to get any bigger. I would get like a bit of muscle on us, but not bigger and broader and obviously. I got a little bit older and when I got released, I filled out a little bit more and Tommy's a late developer in that way. But I've got no grumbles of my career at Middlesbrough and Harley-Poole. So what happened at Hartlepool, James? Again, I done my three year school, I think it was your dad who actually took the, my dad took the phone call off Tommy's dad to say, do you want to come down to Harley-Poole when I got released from Middlesbrough? I could have stayed at Millesbury until the end of under 16s and then just went nowhere or I could have had the choice of going wherever a club that came in and ⁓ I'd hardly pull with the first ones to call and I just said yes. I trained at Maidencastle, which was just down the back. I literally would look out my back window and see Maidencastle so I could walk down, didn't drive and it was, I'd done my three year scholarship there and I got a year option as a pro. In my first pro year, was Dimmy Constantopoulos and Jim Provett. Who I was up against and I was still really skinny. Because Jim's not the biggest, he? No. Jim wasn't the biggest. mean, obviously, Dimmy's a big lad, but Jim wasn't a... He was a good goalkeeper. Fantastic. looked up to Jim a lot because he came through the youth team as well. So it was like, if he can do it at that height, I can do it. Like me, scholarship, yeah, I done well. obviously you got me pro but competing with them too. I got sent out on loan for a month and I got recalled from Gateshead in me, in me first year pro after two games. And then we called us for not like Jim or Jimmy weren't injured and I basically just trained and sat about, never played reserves. Like I did in me scholarship, yeah. Cause Jimmy got number one and Jim. wanted to play. So when it was the other way around, Dimmy didn't want to play reserves. So I was like playing reserves with all the injured lads and week in, week out, and every Wednesday we would play. Can I ask you a question as a go-killer? And I always wonder this, if, and I probably know your answer, would you sit on the bench at a top, top level for 10 years being an understudy if you were getting mega money? And what I mean by that is, don't get me wrong, the money's great, but surely you would go somewhere and get similar money and play? Why would you, these goalkeepers who just sit on the bench for years, I don't get it mate. Well, think you can do that when you're mid thirties, you know, when you've had a career, you know, and you've played consistently, regularly over seasons and seasons, then maybe look at that, you you're happy to sit on the bench. mean, I see a lot of experienced keepers who maybe go to a Man United or a Man City. looked at Richard Wright, who was at Ipswich, he went to Man City when he was what? 36 Mabies and he was happy to be third choice and Mabies get the occasional cup game and then he's still there and I was a goalkeeping coach. But I agree with you, think keepers, you want to be playing, certainly when you're younger, you want to make a career and you want to be playing week in, week out. Yeah, it's all right training and you want to be playing. That's right and from my point of view, like going into non-league, I've always like wanted to play. So if I was at a club and I didn't play. I would, doesn't matter how good the way or how much money I was on, I just wanted to go and play. I remember I got, I was injured at Durham City and come back and I wasn't playing and I ended up, right, I want to, I don't want to leave, but I want to go and play. ended up like going with Gustavo, of my good friends of, he ⁓ was at South Shields and I went and finished the season at South Shields with Huss and John Kingy. Kingy, so yeah, definitely not like you'll always want to play even if I was still I'd play now. I would find that level where I could play week in, week out. Wouldn't be bothered if they were in the top division or bottom division. just want to play. Definitely not. While we're on goal, Keatingston, ⁓ what do you think of current situation at Sunderland with Robin Roofe? First of all, how do think Robin Roofe is doing at Sunderland? I he's fantastic. think he's fantastic. Obviously, I'm a Leeds fan. family's Sunderland, there's mainly dad and my brother Leeds. He misses his Sunderland and she's absolutely football crazy. So in our house, if Sunderland leads it on, Sunderland's on the telly. But obviously with my grandad Sunderland, I like watching them, I follow them. I just think Roofs, everyone's on about Jagger, yes he's been brilliant, but not just saying if we go to Cape Union, I think Roofs has been fantastic. without a doubt. think he's come in and... You normally see these keepers come in and into the Premier League especially and make a lot of mistakes and they get criticised and it takes them a while to show how good they are basically. think he's, yes he's made mistakes but he's been fantastic from the off and I it's a great sign and you keep a hold of him then Sunderland would keep stepping up and hype it. That's a big, that is one of the big problems keeping older people like that isn't it? When the big clubs come calling because everyone wants the top. top goalkeeper. So Patterson was in goal last year and I think he did a great job. He's a good shot stopper, but we would concede when he wouldn't come for the ball or what used to like frustrate the fans was someone would just hit a long ball upfield and where you think the keeper should be coming out, that ball would just land and now the centre forwards running on it and would land just outside the 18 yard box or something, you know, and you think and Now, when you watch Sunderland, if somebody plays a long ball, Roofs is right out. And it's almost like the other keepers, Edisons and Alisons and Manuel Neuer, they all play high. Now occasionally, you see them get caught by a worldy, Hamer, know, beginning of the season, scored a worldy, didn't he, from half way a line and that. They're few and far between, aren't they? You're better off cleaning up. So what I read today about Patterson was ⁓ Millwall, interested in him. loan deal, but Sunderland want most of his wages with an obligation to buy. Sunderland want eight, they're saying three. And he just like, I failed for the lad. He was like, he kept us in the game at Wembley. One of the saves I've seen live. It was incredible on it. An moment, unbelievable save. And then he, and now it's like, he's just, he's not needed, is he? you know, that's a fail for him. And through the ranks as well. He's done really well for the club, but again. That's levels, isn't it? Is he a Premiership keeper? I'm not saying he isn't, but obviously Roofs have come in and they've seen something in training straight away, the analysis of him. It's one of them things. think Pat O'Hale, wherever he goes, if it's Championship, Premiership, he'll do well. He will do well because he's a good goalkeeper. But again, for me, he's got to be playing. I noticed him on club and I've seen him come up through the academy as a kid. He's an unbelievable kid, at his age, he's got to be playing. You can't just sit and not play football. Do you know what mean? Probably on good money. You're doing it wrong. He's playing in the Premier League. He's part of it every week. Great. But like you say, for me, he's got to get out and get some goalkeeping. He's probably asking them questions as well. Like, although he'd want to stay. up close? Yeah. Up in the Premiership, he's probably that character to say, I want to be playing. And he'd probably be pushing a lone move. Yeah. at least a lone move alone, you know what I mean? yeah. He'll certainly have takes at the Championship. I like to say Millwall's interested, but I'm sure there's a few others as well. Because he, he did really, really well last season. He did, he did. And I like him, he's good character. He's actually one of the things we did with that, if you can share foundation, the suicide thing, he's an ambassador for that. And the lads were saying he's a cracking lad. So, yeah, okay. So James, then you move on, you move into non-league, where did you go? well, first of all, how did the Hartlepool thing go? Was that just calling into an office one day or? Yeah, it had come to the end of the season. It was actually the season that got relegated from League One. Cooper had left. Neil Cooper had resigned halfway through the season, or just before Christmas I think it was. Martin Scott took over, which like for me, I was played like... He gave me my scholarship. He got it like as assistant manager, sort of gives me pro contract. So I was excited and obviously he got the sack and Paul Stevenson took interim and he was my youth team manager. So I was like sort of my hands together again. it was literally to go in to see if they would take me option year open just in the office at the Vic and just say, I Chris Turner came back there to help and director of football. think I was. director of football. And he sat me down and just basically said, not taking the option on you and give reasons of having played enough this year. You never got sent out on loan enough. You should have been out. And I was like, wait, it's my fault. Basically, I should have pushed it more. Looking back, I should have. Was Dimi and Jim still the keepers above this? Yes. But like I say, looking back, probably should have pushed a little bit more. I went to Gateshead when they were in the Unibond Prem, just their keeper got injured and it ended up being only two games, came back. I wasn't playing reserves, couldn't play youth team. I was just basically training and I these games and I should have pushed them more, looking back, but that's what they basically said. I hadn't played enough and never took me option year on and then the next youth team lad got there. He got his pro. Who was that? The one below me was Tony Davison. We were at a pro club and you're thinking about low moves and you haven't even gone near it. It's mental isn't it? I was very similar when I left Man United and you know I'm getting the club to ring clubs for us and but they weren't really around then. You know it's probably the last 20 years where they've really... Wasn't as many was there? No half. It was probably a bit naivety from myself like not getting, maybe it's inexperienced. speaking to one of the experienced pros like Mickey Barron or Richie Humphreys to say like, contract might be coming to an end, what should I do? Or like, I didn't and... PFA can sometimes help as well, Cardi, but I mean, have that many players as well, so it's a tough one. see a transition of the management as well. I think if Martin kept his job, I might have got my option, because like, he did think highly of us and... didn't think I had a future in the game. So it might have been different, but again, that's football, isn't it? It's opinions as well, isn't it? It's just, you know, someone new comes in the club, the Christiana thing with you, wasn't it? And obviously Tom, you, you know, you've been to a few clubs and you were saying you never really did the agent thing either. No. PFA helped me a little bit along the way. My dad did. I had one agent, I think, who did my deal with Sheffield Wednesday from I'm Ipswich. I do it myself or have your dad's advice as well. mean, there's more of them now because you get that one player who gets you removed like a Pickford or a Henderson, you're set for life. 32 million, you get a cut of that as an agent. You're set for life. Yeah, I think you've got to be wary as well because there's that many out there who just want to make a quick buck. They're not bothered about you as a player. They just want, they see pound signs. They jump all over it. You need an agent when you're struggling for a club and you need a bit of help and a bit of advice as James is saying, he possibly could have needed someone like that at that time. But certainly when you're doing all right, you're playing week in week out, that's when they start gathering and they start, you know, they're like leeches. know, we'll do this, we'll do that, we'll do this, we'll do that. Hang on a minute, you're not doing this for free. They're only taking money off what you're going to get. So there's a fine line between having an agent and not having one and when you need one and when you don't. So you've just got to be careful out there. So yeah, so just a conversation and we're not going to take your option here on to me. Yeah. that was then? What did you do? What are the offers and what? walked out the office and cried basically. did. It was from being 10, all I ever wanted to do grew up on a rough estate, wanted to make my mom and dad proud. And it was emotional. What was the worst? Obviously I didn't drive. Don't know why. just, again, Baincastle was close to my house. On game days, was a couple of Hartlepool fans that lived close by, good friends of the family. I would get lifts off them if I needed to be there or if I was there all day training, you would go to the game on a night or an afternoon or straight after our game on Saturday. And I remember walking out, crying, phoning me, mum and dad and having to get the bus home. And I was like 20, 21 and I'm like sitting on the bus thinking, what am I doing? wonder I'm being a leased like, ⁓ yeah, it's like sort yourself out a bit. They were again not having that experienced person to talk to, to go to other clubs. I was like, right, what do I do? And I just, again, I went there, I ended up signing for Durham City. He was on the doorstep. Again, get really close and that was it really. He had a couple of offers to go to America. We played in the Dallas Cup at Hartlepool Youth Team. We went over there twice and obviously they had scouts all over and After the first time we went, we won it. I would get a couple of phone calls, if you'd want to get your pro, give us a contact. Contacted when I got released and got a couple of offers, wasn't looking back now again, wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change anything of the footballing journey, but looking back now, I wish I just thought, go on, just take that leap. I wish I did. Cause I went there later at 27 to play in the USL. And it was an honestly that year I had there was an amazing experience. And I kept looking back going soon as Man United, but I'd signed a pro early at Man United. So I probably would have been exempt from going over on a scholarship. Changed the rule a bit now. There's a bit more leniency with it now. Michael Anduini was at Newcastle. He came off the bench for Newcastle in the Park to Princes and that he'd signed a pro. they've changed the rule. He's now on a four year scholarship into Ohio State and he's loving it. But he was, he was a pro. They changed the ruling. I wouldn't have been allowed anyway, but even going over America at a younger age, it's something I probably should have done, you know, because it was fantastic. Again, you look back at life experiences and you know, what's the way my life transpired and you wouldn't change anything for what we've got. I've got two gorgeous kids now, you know, but looking back at my football journey, I could have had 10 years out in America at a good level. You might have still been there. I know. You know what mean? lot people go over there and stay there, you know, the lifestyle and everything. Yeah. Superb. New York's got a snowstorm in the minute, minus 35 degrees. ⁓ horrendous. think that's a, ⁓ a good point though. mean, I'm older than all of you by a few years. And when I was growing up, when I got the chance at Burnley, was the school teachers. Do you know what I mean? Like it was Fred McNean, Mike Sheppard were the school teachers and they were like having a conversation. There's a scout from Burnley, Harry Wilson, he was coming to the game. And then afterwards it was like, you know, they want you to go down. They want you to want to see you. And it was me, Brassie and a couple of others. And I had no idea what was going on. Like Fred McNair would say, ⁓ we'll meet you in the car park. Fred McNair took us, took me down to Burnley. know what I mean? And I really, the whole thing was happening with me just like being told, ⁓ you're going down. You're going to play a game. I was like, right. Okay. I didn't know what was going on. 14 year olds. Was I 14 year old? Yeah. And then I, then I get off at a sign. school boy forms, get released. We used to go down on school holidays, stay down for the week. ⁓ And then I get released at 16. And at that point there, there was rumors of other clubs. We went on a, was playing football and there was somebody called George Sombody, was a big name in the game, was Chef Wed. And I'm ⁓ Sheffield, Wednesday, a senior and they're interested. But I'm like, who? And who's going to talk to them for me because... I'm just hearing these things. was wall song, was chefware and all that. Nothing ever transpired because what would I do? I was like maybe 15, 16 year old. People say these things. And there only me school teachers who were really sort of pushing on me. So at 16 when I got released, it's like I didn't have anyone to talk to. I didn't have anyone to say to any of the clubs. All I had was Mike Shepherd still. And he said, look, why don't you come through to see him Red Star? So I was sort of 16, 17. I was playing for the... under 19th at a young age and just stayed there for a while doing that. But nobody was like, do you know, there's nobody, push fire and all that, nobody in my family knew the game. I was older than you. So it kind of just faded away, you know what I mean? And similar to that, where you're going, right, what next? You know, I didn't have an agent. I didn't have anyone to go and talk to. It's definitely changed now, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's definitely, there are many people making a living out of it now, they're living out of that side of the game. mean, on previous episodes I've said like, was nothing for me, there was no guidance, there was no help. I was just in the world on my own and I needed somebody like that to grab a hold of me and go, what are you doing? You know what I mean? And looking back now, I think if I was born in this era, my career would have been completely different, but it is what it is. know, you're on that, like you say, when you get released and got no one, like looking back at the time I thought like, I'm okay. I'll just get on with it and play non league. But looking back like I was down, probably depressed. And it's why I made them not like disrespect any clubs I played for stepping in that level. Cause the Northern league at the time was a tough league. had a lot of, a lot of lads that had came from the pro game and like the depression like set in, but you didn't know. if I look back now, out you were and football, like it was always my life and I stepped into the non league side. So I needed to get a job. needed to obviously make a living. And I was still thinking I was like, right, I'm a full time footballer. You're still thinking I could get back into the game, but then putting everything else aside and it took me a while to get a job. I was still living with my parents. My parents had just went, they were just going through a divorce at the time. So it was hard and it probably set me back even a little bit more and not having somebody else to talk to, to advise us to go and take this direction instead of this one. But again, I no regrets and had a ⁓ really enjoyable, non league career. So what are the highs of that James? What are the highs of that sort of non league? time for you? To be fair, ⁓ I've enjoyed every club I've been at. When I first signed for Durham, Andy Gowans, come from Whitley Bay. I think he'd just won the VARs the year before or something. I don't know what the transition was of coming to Durham. Manager, I spent a season there and I wasn't really getting in and I was thinking, I'm better than him. I've just come from like a pro club and I'm not getting in. I was a part. and stayed the year after Lee Collins took over and it's still Lee Will, yeah, that's me. The year they won the league and again, Turnzee came and Turnzee been about a bit, he's at Sunderland, et cetera, and he was a fantastic keeper and I knew I'm not going to play over Turnzee, he's not experienced, he's a better goalkeeper than me. And I ended up going to Horn, Gustavo again. ⁓ Because when he first moved over, he moved two doors away from me. So obviously I was one of your teenagers and we became friends and obviously he took us to the majority of clubs he'd been to if I wanted to go over and ended up at Horton. He got the sack. Simon came and we played together. ⁓ did you? You had a good side. We had a fantastic side, probably one of best I've played in a non-league. We're going at the best. We won the league cup and got promoted from the second division. And it was like Gary Payson played and we had a real good side. the problem was, Saeed got a real good squad together on good money. But then it was hard to maintain that money, wasn't it? We were all Northern League Division 1 players, got promoted and then it was just Norman's money. It's hard, isn't it? When you're paying that much money to good players, just, everyone just started. flittering off because the money was difficult. It was a great club. The changing room was fantastic. had some bright good players and characters and the club was good. was like a proper family. It probably the first club I'd been at where, wow, everybody cares for you. The chairman, the fans, it was good. I mean, they're getting back up there now. They're doing well and they're all making fresh division. Jonny Payne's the manager, doing really well. But Horton went after Weed left. They went through that transition period where they just dropped right away. Folded, they? Reformed, yeah, yeah. Folded and reformed. But if they could have kept that going, and again, it's money, isn't it? You've got to be able to, if you want to sign better players, the money there, but if they could have kept that going, we probably could have had a real good few years, couldn't we? Did you go to America the season after we won the league? I you already been, Stu. I went in 2007. Right, so you'd already came back. yeah. So like the year after when the money went, we were in the first division, it went like halfway through the season, if that. But it didn't like just, ⁓ you're getting £20 taking a few wages. just went. So you're like nothing. And a lot of us stayed for a while. I remember our last game, South Shields. That was my last game. Because I think Norman came in the dressing room and said, lads, listen. I'm trying to get your money together. We don't, we're owed about five or six weeks. And I just had, I think I had Charlie and I think Ivy might've been on the way. And I was like, I kind of be given weekends up like this for no money. you know what I mean? It's sad. It was all your all day. Wasn't it? Yeah. By the time you met and picked a few lads up on route and then stayed for a couple of pints after the game, you were talking probably seven or eight hours out the house. And obviously Ivy was on the way and I just made the decision. was only 32 when I retired. And I thought, but like you say, like We did stay a few weeks without eating anything. I enjoyed it that much. was lot of Kevin Devines, he was made to add to the Easton. And they were in the Weir side at the time. And he was like, I can't give you much. We'll give you this amount. Just fancy coming over. And quite a lot of us went over and like, I didn't really want to drop down, but I loved playing with the lads I was playing football with. And I went and... finished the season, up winning a cup at Eason and that was another great club, but they never got promoted. I wanted to step back up Durham City. were in the Northern Prem at the time, going through that transition when they couldn't get promoted again and all the players left and they had the college lads playing. I still contracted with them to help them out and Diggy Hard was manager and I ended up going back to Durham. again, fantastic club and what happened to them was a travesty affair, especially being the hometown club. Yeah. that, what's happened, James, what's the travesty there and the pitch in that? When I went with Dickie, had, again, we're in the Northern Prem, done really well. had ⁓ a good side set up. We just finished, I think we finished ninth and Austin Carney was the chairman and he basically pulled us in and just said, listen, lads, we're resigning from the league and dropping back down to the Northern League. Like due to expenses, it was a lot of money traveling to and from where you had to travel to. We went back down to Northern League. ⁓ Had a few years there, good years as well, some good players. And then again, Austin came in again and says, I'm selling the club to Olivia Bernard and... Bernard basically came in and had a meeting and was like, you're on too much money, you're on too much money, can't win this league on three quarters of that budget. And they wanted a slash, pulled everyone in and you can play for 20 quid, not 100, say for instance. the were like, we're talking like Harry, Tim Harrison there at the time, Tony English came back for a bit. And Gary Brown, had a career. And the Puyall twins were there. Steven Thompson, who's at Stockton now. They were just going to Dalhow I think at the time, but we had some cracking players and everyone was just like, nah, we're going to do this. And he done it. Sacked the lads who were in charge at the time. Ian Skinner, Adam Furness. I think Skinner's got a bit to do with Ashenden. He was Ashenden manager at one stage. And I think Adams running Darren women, think he's doing that and went on a great run and sacked them and done that. And again, it was similar, hard and owed us a lot of players and just below the way and they just fell down the legs. He thought that that was the way forward. Bringing lads over from France. happened and now they're in the Wearside second division. They're from Houghton, Glendale. they don't there? No. They should never have ripped the grass pitch up. Honestly it was one of the best pitches. Even all the big clubs wanted to come and play pre-season friendlies there. And they ripped it up and put the 3G down. money-making. I remember playing for Hartlepool at the time. They Dunstan in the Challenge Cup final. won and at the end of the game, I enjoy playing on a good surface. I remember it because it's getting ripped up tomorrow. what? It was a travesty that like, honestly. Especially for something that was technology based and was always going to keep getting better and they put it down when it was 3G and then it went to like 4G and then it went to this. Apparently where it's at is like some of it's real grass. ⁓ So what I heard was it's like three artificial and one to one reel now. you get a better surface. Have you seen Durham? The actual 3G at Durham City? It's horrific. It's just black. yeah. It's just all them rubber bits. It doesn't even look like a pitch. It's just pure black of all the rubber bits where they just throw it on. It's terrible. Well, I could have filled it back up if they'd wanted from all of this stuff. We used to play and train at the Bobby Robson Centre, which was exactly the same one. was the black rubber balls. after every game or every training session. Sonny would come home, take his gear off and just empty these things all over the place. I could have collected them and sold them back to Durham City. They've really done them, Bob Lubson Centre, that's one of the newer ones now and the newer ones are loads better, but they are the loads better. I don't like, I know I played for Durham on it for a lot of years, I don't like playing on it. It destroyed my hips, my knee. Well, that is a good point. Here's a question from years ago, who were the two clubs that... were professional clubs played top flight who had the plastic pitches at the time. Lew Oldham was one eye and Luton was the other eye. And I always remember that they were always better. The home record was always better because teams would go and it was difficult. The ball bounced differently and the ball rolled differently and clubs would struggle to go. Some rugby clubs have artificial pitches. Glasgow Warriors have got one and it's hard. bit different. It doesn't obviously with the grass pitch when it gets wet and boggy like the ball can like land and like just sink in but on the grass pitch it's firm underneath so the bounce is totally different you know. We went old and we shot the boys I don't know if you were there at the time and we played on the game before on the pitch sorry before Oldham played, can't remember who they played that day, we played like an Oldham team we shot the boys on the plastic. A lot of sandbase wasn't it? Wasn't it, we're at the surface now. Can you remember the surface in Low Hills Road? It was called the All Weather Pitch. Just like, John I might! A long time ago. Did you ever? No, There was pitches all over and went up and up and then was a pitch on the middle that was yellow. It's all grass now, And it was just this yellow surface that was called the All Weather Pitch but it was just tiny little stones. Like was stone, you know what mean? That was the All Weather Pitch. It can't be grass, mean, as much as the... I know the 4G or whatever is good stuff now but... Lovely. be crass can you? I know complaining about the 4G but yous lads will be the same as well. You grew up in the streets playing on concrete. Well exactly, against the wall and stuff like that. Tripping over and falling on concrete so was... We grew up, we had a field near us, it was just called the playing field wasn't it? And it was out the back of some of the houses. It wasn't a full-size pitch but it was decent size pitch wasn't it? But it was on a slope. So the council and the wisdom decided they would put some drainage in. So they came along, they dug it up and they put stones in, right? And then put a surface back down. But all that with the stones will come to the surface. ⁓ So we'd be playing and they quite big stones and the pitch just became full of stones and it was just a mess. Like, I mean, it was only a local playing field. Nobody really played on it. We had a little league and stuff, but. So yeah, go on, James. Sorry, we've hit a rubble there. So ⁓ you were at Horden. Where do you go next? Yeah, like I say, went hard and we ended up... ⁓ easy, sorry, yeah. Went back to Durham when we were playing in the Northern Prem. I think it was the North Division, one above the Northern League, because they got relegated. Then obviously, Boston, the club decided to step down in the Northern League. Had quite a few years there. Right. at one stage, think the one that offered us a contract and it was crazy. I was like, yeah, I'll sign whatever it's hometown club. Like I'm happy with what your offering is and I want to stay in. And he was just like, are we, can you sign this? It's five year contract. No problem. So I signed a five year contract, not thinking, just going to stop this playing on the Sunday with me mates. And obviously I came out with it after a couple of years, but. ⁓ Yeah, I was at Durham a long time and broke my leg playing down at Gisborne for them in 2013 and had like a whole year out. And from there it was Gus again. Gustavo just getting a new neck lift job with Peter Dixon and Paul Foster. I come along and I was like, I'm not ready to play. Like my head's all over, I've been out nearly a year. I just started playing for Jeff Arnold in Durham Alliance League for Sherbourne, just to get back playing. And going on, come along and I ended up going along and Egliffe, I spent a lot of years at Egliffe as well. A five-yard Egliffe. Obviously, Gus and Peter and Foss left, different managers in that Egliffe. You didn't play in that game when it got suspended for Spenning, did you? I did. I played the first half. Yeah, I played the first half. I'm not going to go into it too much. Spenning was here then, The game got abandoned, think. abandoned, yeah. Got few tackles and there was a bit of... I think it was because Spenning were getting beat like... No, it was... We had a few characters in there. Egliffe team, obviously playing in the Northern League, you had her, it was tough. It was Gia's decision to ⁓ pull the team out. It was a feisty game and it got stopped at half time. There's a few lads, like the younger lads at Egliffe as well, they're quite disappointed because I think Peter had an interview after and Peter said how it was and no one liked it. basically. then, said in the interview, there was like 10 young lads from the 18s in that comp just to help fill the bench. And just so we can have a look at them, basically a lot of them were going to get a week, three of them got starts. We had like two young lads right and left back and they were going to get on and I think that's what like upset them a little bit more. We ended up training. He kept us out. Obviously Gus playing Gus, no. staying and doing some running. It was Foss, it was like, no, we've got enough to play and we just played another 45 minutes of like, mixed the teams up and played them and yeah, it it was a tough time. wouldn't have liked to think that there's many in the first half. I don't think there's been any more friendlies between them since, I don't think. as a referee, a referee, game properly where... I knew he was just a young lad. It's hard in that... in them, as you know, obviously referees and it's... So there's tacks of it's tacks. Yeah, there's tacks and there's tacks, but I think it was getting very, very noisy. was, yeah. So you know in non-league, obviously at the elite level, you've got kind of your Sunderland, Newcastle, Borough, Hartlepool of Times, and then there's a bit of rivalry between each of them, less so for some of the clubs. Is it like that in non-league? there some... Clubs are equal or they don't like each other, those two clubs. I mean, is that one of them? I think it's more fans. A lot of the Northern League lads, you know everyone, especially if it's close. You know everyone. So when I was at Ryre and we played RCA, you knew them, but it was still a big deal. So it was like a both. Yeah, a lot of lads at that level, I think they've played for them teams. know, they've probably... When Spedium, we used to play Darling. A lot of players who have played for Spenningham or played for Darling, when they play each other, yes there's a rivalry and you want to win, but James is just saying that, I think it's more the fans, and they see it more rivalry than the players because they know each other. If you have a bit of a derby on a Sunday, for instance, you still get Robbie and you'll still leave one on someone, but obviously like Tommy says, you're playing in the Northern League and if you know No lad, you'll still get stuck in, but you're not going to get stuck in how you would like. I'm going to like, leave one on them and potentially get them out the game type thing, you know? So it's there, but it's more, I think it's more like the fans and clubs hating each other. Obviously I went and ended up at Billingham town, Billingham town, Synthornia. That was like the fans just hated each other basically. But, it's more the fans and the players. It sounds like they're moving about to help you. Yeah, they move around a lot. They've probably played for a team or you You might get the odd thing, I've played a lot of years in there and there's some centre forwards like I hate playing against because they're that good. There's some centre forwards I hate playing against because they're just absolutely horrible. Like horrible, you just think, if you could get away with it here, I'd I'd love to like give them a punch or something. Speaking of which, have you seen the clip? I was just going to say it, the video of the lad going to take the penalty and he gets out of that. I'm shocked. That is terrible. He should get, it, when there's thing called Sindai. Yeah. where you were just banned from playing any... You got arrested, yeah. It's terrible. I remember we were playing, I was playing for Easington at the Colerary Welfare ground. I forget who we playing with, they had a lad. And he was a good player and all, but he was a hard lad. Luke, he was called. Don't know his proper name, just knew him as Luke. was a player. I played with him, like, before then, I'd kind of played with him. I don't know whether it was district level or something like that. But anyway, playing for Easington, he was playing for the other side. And a tackle had gone in. and two of them had ended up on the floor and while they're getting up, just head butted them like, and he got sindy, couldn't play again and we were only probably 18 or something like that. And that was him done from the game. So you'd think that elbow was worse. It's shocking. I'll not mention it, but did you play when we were at Horn and we played at West Auckland's ground against Bishop? With some moon and water on it. Yeah. Did that get to you as well? Yeah, player on our, no names mentioned on our side. I've got a good idea. For one minute I thought I was outside of a nightclub if I'm being honest. Then you got sinned, died for a while and a few. And then he wanted to the whole stand on. Yes. And none of them came fourth either by the way. was unbelievable. Is he a big lad? Yeah, yeah, I know who you're talking about. Mind you, I'll be honest, the lad who he didn't do deserved it. was a one, he was a nul and two for what he did to him in that game, he deserved it. he? But then the UFC takedown. If I remember right, didn't go, like, do you know, at West Auckland kicking downhill, kicking downhill against the backboards. They both ran out of play, ended up on the floor or something and they had a bit of chew on the game and he kicked out at him. and said something him and just read red mystery. That's all I remember. ⁓ Our player was, the ball had gone out for a goal kick and our player was coming back, running back on the pitch and the centre half just left his foot out and tripped him up and he went head first and everybody on their team were laughing, well that's it, the red mystery. That was when he speared him and took him to the floor and the rest is history. That's what does happen. ⁓ We were, I mean, it even happened to us under line when we were playing. was playing, I'd gone back, I was older, I was in my thirties and I was playing for one of the Asian clubs again. Can't remember which one. And it was a Low Hills road and we were in the car park before the game waiting for everyone to turn up, waiting for them to open the changing rooms and stuff. And we had a goalkeeper and I didn't know him, he was a big lad like, and apparently by all sorts of accounts, he was a bit of a tough lad like. ⁓ and we just sort of standing around, you know, like you do, like one of the lads might have a ball out in the car park and all that. And then this lad walks over and the goalkeeper, I can't even remember his name, just goes over and he just starts giving them a proper good eye and no one's doing anything. Everyone's just like, you know, when you're bit took back and everyone's like, what the hell's happening here? Like, so it finishes and he go on F off like, and he sends him away. like, and he comes back to the group and now it's said, what's going on there? And he's like, ⁓ it's his brother. ⁓ His brother apparently said something bad to the mom, as soon as he's turned up, he's given a good eye and said it by his way. What have I all that way forward? What have I gotten into, How did it all end the James at that level, at that kind of, you know, the decent club, top-love, non-league level? Like say I was English for a bit, about four five years, and how old are you? Now I'm, cause you've had about four years, about 20 clubs here. 40, And a new manager came in and I just, I wanted to change it. It was, it was like he didn't like the older lads. He took captaincy off the captain Daniel Mitten at the time and wanted like wage drops. And I was on a contract and I was like, not a money man, but it's not right. I've been a good servant of the club. I was well liked. I would hope I was well liked. won ⁓ sports play of year, players play a couple of years in a row. I just wanted a change. Obviously I ended up signing for Gary Pearson at Ryup ⁓ just for a change. Text one of the lads, Ziggy, James Ellis. A local lad as well, played at Sherbourne. I'm after a goalkeeper, I'm after a change and Padge was there as his assistant and I met up with them at the Lakes in Hinton where he trained and I had one training session and I just absolutely loved it. I'd known Gary through like Horton days but like it was just brief with Horton with him and playing against him on a Sunday where he was at Hinton lines at Gilesgate and like I want to go on after half an hour of his session he actually took the I know how to take a goalkeeper session. Let Taj do the outfield and he just took me and the other goalkeepers. Absolutely beasted us. And I came off muddy as hell, sweating and it's what I loved. And I was just like, I want a sign for this block. And it was fantastic. How he went about things, he was fantastic. Had a couple of yard riot, done really well. The last yard riot was quite sad because I had no volunteers and like the secretary Dougie was stepping down. It was like basically Ben Riden's dad would do the gate. They would ask our last to help out Arthur Pearson would do the kitchen with Elliot Woods's dad. And that was it. We would turn up a riot and Gary had like, we had a good squad. was like, right, let's nets up. It was like on a Sunday. We had to our own nets up in the Northern league. But lads done it because I had the respect for him and they had a great side. The last season we finished. fifth or sixth in the Northern League won. Unbelievable. We won the Challenge Cup and we got to the semi-final of the League Cup. And to be fair, not that we threw it, but it was, we could have probably got to the final and of course we'd already won the Challenge Cup before we played the next semi. It was like, right, I'm going to give, it was like that. I'm giving other lads a chance. So I didn't play. the goalkeeper played and he just mixed it up a bit and he was very good like, I'd given the lads a chance and we got beat 2-1 I think in the other semi and obviously the club folded, was sort of, go volunteers and he spoke to all the side, obviously had Billingham Town set up to go there. The majority of us went, think it was Danny Lay wanted to stay, went West or Bishop, that reg athletic now. and Ziggy were the only two basically, listen, I want to stay in the high division, I don't want to drop to the second division. And I best have said yes and we went there and obviously I was away, I was away camping, first pre-season session and I got a phone call that joined in in training and didn't feel well and went in the changing room and he his heart attack, the first pre-season. He came home, I remember coming, he got home. Our next session back was a Thursday night, like walking into Billingham's ground and he stood at the gates ready to greet everyone just because of the type of bloke he was. Came over and went to shake my hand as if to say it. And I was like, no, come here, you shouldn't be here yet. don't know. He just loved football and sleep. God rest his soul what happened. All the lads stayed at Billingham there. and win the league for him because he wanted to get them. We were very unlucky to be fair. We probably should have won the league. I think what happened knocked us all a bit. We probably should have won the league. got beaten in play-off final. We got beaten on penalties in the play-off final. It was hard. It was a bit to be fair because I think if they kept the two lads on that ended up coming in. Like we would have been in the, we would have got promoted the next season with the majority of the Horn lads that are there now, four or five of them, Chrissie Wallace, Jack Pounder, Ben Ryden, Avery Gordon, they're all there now. would have, I think we would have, would have went on and Billingham was a good club, a good fan base and it was a shame, shame, but that was it basically from Billingham. was, I think that was it for me, like how they went about with the management that was in, because Craig and Prof, Craig Hughes and David Pounder, they said, got us sat us down after Gary passed away, stick together and then they got an opportunity to go to Shildon, which was in the Northern Prem. So obviously in their managerial career, they wanted to step up. they went. Some of us lads got together of who we want to stay together, who do we. suggest basically to the chairman to get the job because he wanted us to stay here and suggested like Paul Wardle who helped Gary at Ryup. He took the under 23s and Chris Baker who's just a local son, he managed like Jack Pound and that at the Catholic club when they were really good and they came in and we just had total respect for them and we just went on a massive winning streak and got back in the playoffs and I think we went 17 games unbeaten. leading up to the playoff final, then we we drew in 90 minutes and got beat on penalties, had the presentation a week later and a week after that, extra star, they've called us in and they've sacked us. And then the chairman wanted everyone to stay and we were like, I'm sorry, that's a lot of us just went out and set up a base. And I ended up joking on to Paul. I obviously become really, really good friends with him. West, of West End job came up and like, if you're going for it, I'll come and help you. And he went and took like, took an interview and bought it. So we ended up going there and so I went as a player manager. Back on the 3G pitch at Fordham. Didn't last long I think. We got relieved of our duties. They put it on social media, him. Although I was playing I was like assistant manager and we got relieved of the duties in January but we weren't in the relegation zone. We were down there but young side. How long ago was that James? was a year after the Billingham sort of being. Two, three seasons ago. Two, three seasons ago, three seasons ago, into January. And then I've basically nothing since then. you have, again, the kids stopped playing then. And obviously I had another team after. Yeah, yeah. I had a team, I had another team that I brought through at Durham County. I stopped and just said to the missus, like, when we got together. always watching me coaching on the morning, watching the kids games afternoon, Sunday morning. That's it. Now we enjoy our Friday nights and Saturdays. I went and helped Paul out because he went and helped Stephen Asherman out at Easton Lane. They're in the Weirside. So he went as assistant manager and I went in every now and again just to help them out. He's actually doing the reserves for them now and wanted us to do it. And that's how I taught me PCS, PCL pre-season with him. Ended up coming on sent half of the last 20 minutes and taught me PCL. So, course nothing like I said, like don't even go and watch football on a Saturday. Like I'll go on a Sunday, but I don't go and watch on a Saturday. Cause obviously sometimes maybe this is just sitting and watch Sunderland, Aids or whoever's on. I think going there was, again, like, took quite bit of stopping playing, if I'm honest. Yeah. That's probably the reason I don't go watch local football as much, especially Northern League and watching some of my old mates. It's us down a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So, definitely. That was it from Egliffe to Billingham. West End then. And nothing. It's quite a journey, like, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like say, when we had the kids team, would be like, my week would be, I would coach on a Monday night, like with the boys. So we would do the two hour session with our boys team. Then I would do the goalkeeper coaching for the whole club. Tuesday we would have a game, whatever team I played for. Wednesday I would coach at soccer arena. So I would coach all night at Socorino Wednesday. Thursday you would train. Friday I would coach at Socorino again for North East Soccer Academy that they set up. Something to do with Middlesbrough. It was a bit of a school. Not the school of excellence but they got the, tried to get the better place. If it went well you stepped through. So I coached there. Then Saturday morning, the younger team would play. That's when we would play seven a side on a Saturday before I changed to a Sunday, didn't it? Then I would play on a Saturday afternoon. And then I would go and play on a Sunday. So my whole week was like work and just total football. I would like never had time to watch football on the telly or it was always match of the day, but I'll be like that after the second game. So it was just constant for years and I thought that it's time for a break. But I miss it. I miss coaching more than I miss playing. Tom, that there, so not only you're working, full time and then you're trying to fit it all in and it's taking you a whole week. As a pro, what does your week look like as a pro? Well, obviously, he'll probably get a day off, well, probably two days off actually. So maybe he'll get a Wednesday off during the week. Sunday, he'd get off as well. Depending if you had a midweek game, he would train. I used to get in about half an nine o'clock in the morning, get in early, do a little bit in the gym before. we actually started training at half 10 and you'd be finished 12, half 12 the latest really. And then the rest of the day you can do whatever. Yeah. Don't we respect any clubs you were at where they were very keen on you staying at the ground for your dinners? So think that happens massively now. lot. ⁓ I think certainly as I got older, there was more emphasis on that. Back in the day when I first started, think lads would finish training. in the cars and away. A lot of lads just wanted to get home or ⁓ just wanted to get home and do other stuff. lot of lads play golf, know, see a lot of footballers who play golf because they get a lot of spare time. I think nowadays a lot of lads are going in the gym a lot, doing extra stuff. And if I look back, used to think, yeah, I got in early and did stuff in the gym, but I do a little bit more in the afternoon. You always sort of think and make it better. think a lot of lads. doing that now. I bet you the days are gone where you're like you say you're done at half 12. I bet you they're doing extra analysis sessions or... Absolutely. Changing a lot isn't it? It's evolving. and the days off maybe not as much as when I played. Well, the end of Swindon we never got any days off really. So that was different with the Canio. But the normal week used to be a Wednesday off and then obviously a Sunday. What about now, nowadays, do you think Saturday is the play at three o'clock? Are you in the next day for a cool down or do you think it's a day off? Again, if you've got a Tuesday game, definitely in the next day, even if it's just for an hour or two, two max, you know, just to come in for a cool down. The lads who didn't play would probably do that next Saturday. Do think you might get the Sunday off? Definitely. Right. Right. I mean, listen, if you're on a bad run and you get beat week in, week out, then you're definitely in. And there no sort of managers who would get you in. And that's... That's just the norm really, you know, to do extra work and I look at different things, normally be something. James, any standout moments through that? We'll go into the coaching because I do want to mention that because we a great time together doing that. And then, then I would like to just talk about the current state of North East non-league football, which you guys will be able to fill us in on. But, standout moments? And you can be when you were younger as well, stand out moments that you still remember. Younger, just obviously the puddle thing of becoming a goalkeeper. Little things like my dad taking us once I become a goalkeeper and just blasting shots at us and me being a big baby crying telling them to stop and then asking them the next day to take us back out. But playing wise, just some of the clubs I've been at and not necessarily if we've won anything. I think the Stormy stand out with the Horn one there, Matty Taylor was only years out on it. Hilarious. Hilarious and just little things like that, obviously winning the league at Horn and the putt. Obviously I was still quite young, playing with a lot of, like they had a lot of ex-pros playing in that side to be fair. Like I've done a lot better than me. I was 23, maybe he's 23. 24. I was only like one or two years getting released from Harley-Powell. But like in terms of the players we had, like Baird, like I'd made a couple of bench appearances for Harley-Powell and that was it. One of them injured or... Steve Thomas? Steve Thomas. Obviously, Stu. What was his name? I played for Whitby. I'm not sure if he was pro but he came Kev Dixon was there, wasn't he? Yes, Digger. Graham Robinson. Graham Robinson. He played at decent level. He dropped back little bit. So I was young and all these lads, we did have a fantastic side. So being in that environment there, every game, every every time we got together was memorable, know, obviously winning stuff in the Northern League, like didn't always play for the better sides. went to where I enjoyed it and ⁓ dressing rooms. I did have a couple of opportunities to go and play for the better sides, but I might not have played. So I stayed where I went to where like played basically. Obviously I would fight for my place, you would have to, but winning stuff like Ekliffe, at Raya, probably it Raya, the challenge cup final for Raya was special because I always remember Gary having a bit of crack, saying he's wanted as a player, but it's always something he wanted to do as a manager and Raya were a little club. was massive wasn't it Raya? Like we beat. We beat Spennymoo in the quarterfinal at Spenny, although they did have a lot of the youngins out come and play it. They had a couple of first-time lads playing and we beat them 4-1. and I got some jib off some fans. That's how they were singing. was the Paolo D'Acadio song, saying my name and... But then saying I want grey hair too, because obviously when my hair grows I am a bit of a silver fox. yeah, just that. Probably the Ryre is me. My best memory in football. Going back younger, I won the Dallas Cup with Harley Perot, I went to America. Then over there in Texas was absolutely brilliant. But I would say the Challenge Cup, winning the Challenge Cup for Ryre and Gary was... Yeah, XL is my proudest. Yeah. Brilliant. would like to go on. Yeah. Thanks, James. So let's move on, James, to just for 10 minutes, just the coaching that you and I did. So I was working down Norwich, sunny, I'd get sunny into a side at Easington. They were called Easington Eagles, I think. And it was like, would have been under 10, under nines, under tens or something like that at the time. And I remember taking them on, taking them across to this training session. There was no dads there. It was like just run by the moms, which is great, you know, but there was the moms take the training session. was, I think it was at Lowell's, Rota Suva's inside in the leisure center. And I was just like, you know, but I want, he didn't play and I wanted him to be involved. He, was his first involvement in football at all. And he was, and he was rubbish. Like, you know, and he listened to this and he knows he was, it was terrible. So I'm working down Norwich and I get a call from, from you. And I didn't know you at the time at all. Like, it's James Winter, I'm on his Derham County, and I've heard about your sonny. I don't know what you'd heard, by the way, but I've heard about your sonny. On that, was Stu, when we playing at Horn together. So it been 2008, 2009. I don't know what the conversation was, I just heard Stu mention his older brother, and said something about, I might have been talking to someone you know, and asked how the kids were and stuff, and Sonny and Meg, how they were. And Stuart mentioned and I was like, how old is he? How old is your brother's son? He said, was like, ⁓ that's my, have you got his phone number? And that's how that came about. And you like, you want to, because you were going from small sided to 11 or something, you? Yeah, we were. And you needed players. no nine sided, then it went straight from seven aside from under tens, playing on a Saturday to under, no, sorry, seven aside under nines to playing. 11 aside, 10s or under 11s, I can't remember. So this happened when you were still playing sevens, but you were trying to build a team to go into the next season. So when he first came along, and I was like, ⁓ yeah, no bother mate, I'll bring him along. And that was when you were playing the small side of games and he didn't get much of a game. If he did, he went on for like 30 seconds or something, came off, you know. But then it went to 11s and you started playing at the Bobby Robson sender. And I think what happened was I used to train, but used to course lads and I used to stay back for a little bit with Sonny. Just me and him would go up the other end of the pitch while you were doing the other coaching and me and him would just, I would just try to give him some tips. And then one of the other dads would say, can my lads stay as well? And it ended up, but it just grew. Like the other end of the pitch was now like, there's going on up there. We'd do like two hours and then we'd just train and then I would do a goalkeeping and then I would look and... whole time we'd be still up with Sonny, doing a little bit extra like a similar passenger wheel or something to what we'd already done. we just, you kind of said look why don't we just do this together? Yeah yeah. And we kind of started... Were we not playing games at Gilesgate then on the small pitch when Sonny first came? Aye that's what I definitely We had a little girl, Brittany, played for us. We did and she was brilliant wasn't she? Yeah yeah brilliant. Then obviously when we got there under 12 she had to step up to you. Gus's son played? Chey Delela, yeah. He was good but he wasn't, dad wouldn't mind us saying it if he was watching right, but he wasn't like Gus. He was distracted wasn't he? He wasn't hard like Gus. He was scared of the cold. He was technically very good. But when were like soon as it got cold we knew we couldn't. How many wonder ones did do with his dad? And we had a player at the time, Lewis Bentham. He was unbelievable at that age, wasn't he? He'd done MMA and stuff from seven all the way He's actually in the Marines. He's still in the Marines now. He's a great lad. was a tough lad. did, yeah, Alan was a good lad. But this lad, know when you're watching teams and the lad just gets the ball at one end. and runs up the other end and scores. That's what it was like. He was that far ahead, wasn't he? Of the Moussadi age group. was just absolutely... Yeah, was good. We had a lot of good players. think that was not big enough, sort of a little bit. We weren't very good at first, but once you came in, we had a lot of conversations and we seen a bit of potential, as I say, that might not make it as footballers, but... They'll do well and we could get them having a good career, whether it's Northern League or whatever they want to go and do. And some of them do. progress. A couple fell by the wayside. Obviously once we got a certain age, we beat, I think it was under 15s. Right. It gets a bit serious when we go to under 15s, you have to fight for your place, no equal game time. This is when we brought a couple of players in. But it was very few over all them years. When we actually kicked on, we brought Keegan Spencer. Yeah. Callum came in, he? Callum Graves came in a couple of years before. And the first two was Keegan and Ashy. Yeah, Ashy Brown came in. He was a good player. And then we brought them two in and lost nobody. And we won the league the next year. I remember laughing looking back now, because obviously I keep records, I used to keep records of who we'd played, who played. So at the end of the year, I'd say like Sonny Brightwell had made 59 appearances this year and the presentation scored so many goals. And I've still got all the boots. So looking back, I'd run the 15 season. We'd won the league, we played 26 games, won 25 and lost one. And the game we lost, I don't know if you remember this, a couple of them were being naughty at school. And one was Sonny and you were like, James have a Was it Sonny and Niall? they got... I can't remember. To be fair, like Sonny and Ashy made a great partnership in the midfield. were like, ⁓ I was first on the team sheet and Niall was left wing back. And we had Niall one side and Lucio there and we were having conversations and we were like, if you're naughty at school... You need to stick in because football is not the be all and end all. You'll need to play for us. And you had a word, you have a word with him, he's still not and I says we will just drop them. I remember that, yeah do now. We'll not play them. And we didn't play them and we got beaten. It was the only game we got beaten. were 2-1, it was the only game. And Sonny still jokes on with us if I say a mouthful about that. We would have won, like we would won every single, obviously we got beaten in some of the Cubs League. never lost a game till that game and it was like the last six games to go. We'd already won the league basically, but six games to go, we? Can you remember though the season before that? So we were close to relegation and we needed to win the last game of the season to stay up basically. A draw or a defeat and we're down like, and we're already in, that was the second division, wasn't it? It was the top, we'd been down in the third division like. And so was, so we're playing this team and they were one of our like rivals, you know, at that level. ⁓ And I remember it was one to piece at Summers. And we get a free kick just outside the box. ⁓ we get over it, we get a huddle going. What we're going to do here? We asked one them, had to go down, we? We got the free kick. Chris Young, still plays for us on Sunday and he always says, the kick that I'm absolutely clackered him and he was down and out. So like, ran on, I ran on. Who else ran on with us? Cause I remember, they're saying to him, cause he said he was all right. And we got the lads in One of the other dads ran on and we were like, keep in there, keep in there. And we got all the other lads to the side. Like any hell yous. And we were like, what we're going to do? And the plan was that Alex was just going to hit it one of you. It was literally the last kick of the game, Tom. The ref had actually said, when you take this I'm blown. And we were like, where's the thought? He was beating us every week. Every week he was like, obviously you have, you go places and we have. He's definitely, now you call him, he's a homey here. Giving everything to them. We had him week in, week out. He'd ref for the whole club, but he would give us two nothing. All the time we were like, how long has left David? ⁓ last kick of the game. ⁓ here man, we need to this, ⁓ As soon as you take it and blow him, were like, right, just hit it. he was like, you know, confidence wise, that's like, we're going to go down here. Just hit it. Anyway, he strikes it and he bangs it in, he? And it was just crazy. I always remember my dad ran down the touch line because then all the lads, me and you, we'd all pile, like it was a big pile, you know, and Roy Keane would go mad, wouldn't he, celebrating, staying up. But we were, and we were going on each other. My dad... Ran down the touch line, my dad jumps in. I remember that obviously arrived. I'm not sure who it was against. That's the only thing I'm looking back and remembering. Their manager, he was like a Roy Kane, he wasn't happy at all. Would you dare celebrate winning like that? And I was like, hold on a minute, mate, the 13, they've just stayed in. If they want to jump on and get the coaches in, because they ran the Russian jump on me and so on. By the way, the same fella who I wish I knew who was, he was a dickhead. The 13 year old, right, and the ball goes out and the touchlines weren't even very big at the Bobby Robson weather, they were like a couple of meters. The ball goes out and he gets it and the lad goes to get it and he throws it down the yoke, down the touchline. Like the 13 year old mate, like, and was one of them, I can't remember if was me or you, we were on our way over like it was going to be... there was going to be hell on. Who does that to a 13-year-old kid? Takes the ball and throws it away from them down the street. I've got a name in my head, but I'm not sure if it's that time we played. don't think it was. It was the next season. One of them was Gateshead. We always had two with one the Gatesheads. wasn't Gateshead. And it was the next season. After just managing to stay up, it was the next season we went and batted the league, didn't we? Yeah, yeah. and got promoted again and then actually we were in the Premier League then weren't we? Sorry, we won under 15, we won the second division. We lost one game and so we got promoted and it's going to be a bit harder and we walked the league again. It was a little bit harder, we just drilled four, drilled two or three but we won the league again and got to the Premier League. What age were they now? ⁓ Under 15. Under-17s, we got there, so we went from like eighth division in from under-10s, like the development all the way up to the women. With a few additions, but a lot of the same lads, know. And at Under-17s, again, we signed some other good players like Barnhart, Alexander Walker, he's still playing Northern Leagues. He's went to Burtley. He's got few clubs. He's got Man of the Match. Big Blondes. He's got Man of the Match in the week, Alexander Walker. Bad player, centre-half. That's mad. signed him. He went to school with all the lads, but he just played for somebody else and eventually seeing what we had at our club. obviously we got Trett, had everything. Derek was great, Sonny got some good sponsors. would chuck thousands in like one of the players' dads. Sometimes Kieran, son, wouldn't start and he wouldn't say a word. He just loved that. was part of the... When it all finished he thanked me and said, I mean not just me, but ⁓ for just looking after his kid for all them years because as much as it was football, it also looking after kids as well. know what I mean? It was a family to be fair. Obviously my other team I coached was brilliant but there was nothing like what we had in the parents. My other team they would turn up to training. and Brownie would stay and that's how Brownie ended up helping me and the other team. They would drop the kids off at hours apart from the Mams. Some of them would just go and sit in Bobby Robson, but they would stand and watch the whole training session. like Ry and Sean, would stand and watch all the time. if we ever went anywhere, went in a lot of tournaments, didn't we? Holland was brilliant. It was just a great get together. on a bus, we? We went on a bus to Holland in James Brady's favourite films which were ⁓ Triton, what are they? Remember the Titans. Remember the Titans. Yeah. Kez, it was Kez on Remember the Titans. Yes, it is. Yes, is. was more for like the story of the gang. I put that on and lads watch this film and try and take it in and thinking that we're going to like go over and try and this. I remember getting there on all this long journey, was like 14 hours to get there on the bus stairs and I got there like Friday afternoon. We went to the bar didn't we? On like this caravan site in Newstarp and big lake, was beautiful. And we ended up going to the bar and I remember our Captain Keith pulled up to me and suddenly he was sitting there having a pint and all the parents, can I have a word? So I mean, we're only under 17s. If we have a pint, we were like, honestly, we've got the tournament tomorrow, like not really. You have to your parents or them, yeah, it's fine. We're not saying yes, it's up to you. So we said yes and they came back about three hours later steaming. One of them had this thing that had six pints in. were like, what's going on here? Like, ⁓ no. There was a pitch on the thing and said, tournament wasn't until the night. You have to get them up because we went to bed like nine, 10 o'clock. We never had a late night on Friday, but they came back steaming. We were training at 10 o'clock in the morning just to try and get it out of them a bit. We had like a little training session on the morning and ended up playing the tournament like seven, think seven, eight o'clock was our first kickoff. It was like a league format. So you had to win the league to win the tournament and we played five games. They had us down, under 19s and I'm like, why is it under 17s? We're doing proper warm-ups, cones out, five minutes of kick-off. Remember the first game, we're going, where's this team? We played out, playing. And they walked out, big lads, blue striped short sleeves, tattoos all down the arms, smoking. I'm like, who are we playing here? We're playing like a man's team. And we won every game, did you? We every game. Passed people off the park. I think the hardest game was the last game. had to win as well. And then we played the next day, we? The day was a friendly against one of their, like, I guess that would be Northern League side or something. Yeah, it was. Yeah. That was, I think we got beaten that one, didn't we? No, no. We won it, we? No, we it. The tournament one, we played like 20 minutes each way, five games, because we ended up playing the last game at like quarter 11 at night. And the friendly the next day was a full 90 minutes. And I remember you got them. Is it the give over, G over? The Italian stuff aye? You've seen it online, got them, but they were long sleeves and we made the mistake of playing in that the next day. So was like a thicker material and the lads were like, ⁓ it was red hot. The lads were like, foaming with us. We had lovely short sleeves, white strips as well. And yeah, we won 9-1 the next, the day after. And to be fair, the team, I thought the team we played the day after were like more technically better than the teams we'd played in the tournament. They were more physical and we were quite used to the physicality of like playing at home. but that was obviously on about memorable things. was a great memorable thing. Like I still talk about it now and there's still Ashie, Josh, Dan Scott, Niall, Alan Graves, Trish Young. There's a kick with that, Scott. He will honestly... Shot-stopping wise, was unreal, wasn't he? And he was a good player outfield as well, so was great with his feet. would sometimes play out, wouldn't he? Because him and Kieran would swap, Kieran decided not to committed. the sent half. You still playing, Dan? Dan, yeah, yeah. Where's he at now? Just my Sunday at home. He didn't get a chance anywhere. He was a lion, but he was, he was brilliant. We had some really good players that probably have stopped playing, Sonny, that I think could have easily stepped up in Northern League. Your Sonny? I know he was, he, he, his development was fantastic. There was quite a few who went from hardly being able to kick the ball, it tends to being like Northern league level, you know, by, so great times mate, of the great times, really enjoyed it. I'm not taking away from the other team I coached, but I do compare, compare like what it was like, parent wise and the team and by far that it was brilliant. I say, I did go to America, I wouldn't end up coaching the Durham County. Obviously it was the team that I grew up with, football, like when I first started playing football, ⁓ that's why I said yes to coaching them. Obviously Derek, the chairman, obviously I know I'm going off the track. just seen us in a car park once. was walking, actually walking to train for Durham City. And another lad, that's who you want to say. And he called us and I always remember it was Saturday afternoon. He was like, you fancy coaching for Durham County, which was called New Durham Boys when we first started and they changed the name there. It was New Durham, was like Sherbourne Road. wanted that away from the ruff and to get the club, the boys club a little bit, a little bit of a name sort of space. And I just said, yes, yeah, I'll get everything sorted. When do I start? He was like Monday night. So I was like, right, what do you need from us? Have you got your coaching badge? And I was lucky enough, Harley-Pearl put us through my coaching badges when I was a scholar there. And that was it basically. And I thought, yes, I'm going to put back to, I wanted to put back to a club that got me started to play football. So. Grassroots, mean, as much as I've just said, to tell me there, there's some tatties in grassroots. Grassroots. is responsible for everybody's single career. That's where you start somewhere. And you know even going back to that Easy and Eagles thing where it was the Mams, at least them kids were playing. They got batted every week but they went to training mid-week and they went and turned out and played on a weekend. Some of them, and I don't remember any of the names or anything, but who knows what happened with them because some Mam... decided she was going to get them off the games and get them having a game of footy like. We had a fear like that in all honesty, didn't we, Sonny? Not big enough, so we had a couple of kids that if they didn't play for us, they wouldn't have played at all. 100%. We give them the chance. We knew they weren't good enough. They knew they weren't good enough, but they were mates with people and we made them part of the team and they got really good minutes. They never had that confidence thinking they were going to be half decent playing. They actually became good players and enjoyed it. The biggest thing is, one lad, won't say who he is, right, but he came along, he couldn't play. We got him to the point where ⁓ he would get some minutes on the field and he became part of the group. And he is still very, very good friends with them all. Now they're all really strong friendship. And that happened because of the... of the football, you know, we ran it very professionally. We got them that all proper training gear. Everything tracks into the lot. Yeah, got them sort of all, so the equipment was always good, but let's say match days, we got them to turn up early. We got them to, they would get changed. We'd go out, we'd do proper warm-up routines. It wasn't just when I was younger, you just ran up and down yourself. know what I mean? It was cones out, we did drills. And it was all very sort of, Other teams must have come along and that was part of it. When I was a kid, Fred McNair, he'd said, we were traveling down, as I said to you before, we're traveling down and he said to me and whoever was in the car, this was like, what are you going to call each other? And I'm like, what do you mean? He was like, we need to come up with names. Nobody knows you. So you need to go, seeing that fella there, that's bone breaker, bright well that. And he was like, you need to like do that. So we were like, I can't remember whether we did or not. But I was like, so how will the people view you? You can almost get into people's heads before. before the game. it was like, if people had seen us, we're very, we always looked professional. We trained professionally, we warmed up professionally and all that. And that affects people before the game. think it must be. They're going to be good days. Every time we played at home, was obviously Bobby Robson had changing rooms when they got the like under 17s, right? There's 16, 17s, there's a changing room. Get changed, we'll meet you back out here. would have like set pieces up and it worked and the lads. The lads took the work really well, I thought it might be much for grassroots, but I'm going to try and put them in that environment as if they're going to step to the Northern League or whatever. And this is what's expected and they were brilliant. They might have called us behind our backs a few times. Like I said, a lot of them now still play on a Sunday and give me a little bit more jit. But at the end, they give them because they can now. I think one of the biggest things was about giving back was like those lads there, they are still a really, really strong friendship group. Not all of them, but if they saw them, they would be, but most of them still together, still in a really strong kind of friendship group. Chatting's great. yeah, there were brilliant times James. I don't think it's ever been stronger. Like the Northeast, not me. I think I see a lot of it. I see a lot of the Northern League because my sons at FC Hartlepool and listen years and years ago I the Northern League was very, very strong. I don't think it's as strong now, but you see a lot of young players playing in these teams. know, they're getting opportunities, they're playing week in, week out. And like I say, I've seen a lot of it and all they need is an opportunity. know, if they have a good season in the Northern League Division 1, Northern League Division 2, sorry, they can get to the next step. They just need an opportunity. I've seen players out there and I'm looking. And I've made notes of when I've been to games this year, I say, want to get back into the game. And there's players out there, they just need a chance. And if they're in with the right team and with the right mix of players, hopefully they can get back and live the dream. know, because a lot of these lads, get rejected from clubs and they think it's the end of the world. James has had a story. I had a story as well. I was fortunate to get back into the game, but it's, they just need an opportunity. And there's lads out there who, who can be picked up. If you got back in Tom and you were doing like one of managing one of those teams there have you kind of got a list of people who you'd like right he's coming and he's coming and he's coming? I go to games every listen every week and midweek and it's not just every level so it's and I don't have to do because I can easily sit at home or I can and watch the Sky Sports and all that but I love football yeah I love whatever level it is you know was was a wippy the other week ⁓ I was a Blythe, Spars, I beat a Bisham, I go to every level of football and I love watching it. And you've just got to be out there because one of these times you'll see something and you'll take north and that's what I've done. And there's a few players along the way where I thought they could definitely play higher. So yeah, if I get an opportunity again, which hopefully I will then certainly be making some phone calls to these clubs and players. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Well, James, let's go on to this. ⁓ rapid questions here for you, right? Here we go, Favourite North East non-league club. On league, would have to say New York Neoglifton because obviously I played a long time for them and like other clubs I've been at, it's family based and the grind have progressed. Although obviously last year they just finished out in the playoffs this season. of players in the year. You've done a great job, Brian's done a great job there and before Brian's here, Alan, the chairman, is fantastic. I would like... Personal reasons I would say Newton Eaglyth. Toughest strike you've ever faced? Someone that always scored against us in would say non-leagueers. Billy Growley Smith, that's our children. He had it every time I played against him, he would score. He was just one of them. So I would say Billy for that reason. Excellent. And you two announcing this one as well. Best atmosphere in the non-league stadiums, North East? Been a long time since I've played. I think Blue Stars up there at the minute, aren't they? get over a thousand fans for a Friday night game, don't they? Just good, yeah. Got a drum and all that. I've never been there. support up there is unbelievable. Whitley Bay used to get a lot up at Hillheads. I would say, yeah, that's right. would say Whitley Bay, when I first came into Northern League and going up there, when they were flying, it was packed. Yeah, a VAR 7th final. First leg, was nearly 2,000 there. I would probably say there. But they've dropped off a lot, they, from where they were in terms of winning VARs, multiple VARs, to where they are now. But when it was packed, that was some place to be. Dream team-mate. Have a think about that when I give you the next one then. Who was your favourite footballer growing up? Footballer growing up? I would say Gazza. I played outfield. I used to, obviously I was young, young and loved watching them play. Once I became a goalkeeper it was probably the early one Peter Shelton or John Berridge. When Gus moved over, Berridge was manager of Blythe and Gus signed for Blythe and John Berridge lived on Gilesgate Bank which wasn't too far from mine. I would be training over the backfield with my dad because the back of mine was just football fields. John would come, he'd running fitness, I'd come here son thinking that he's just going to give us a few tips and he would spend two hours with us. If I do this, showing us how to punch and like 14 at the time and I was like not really knowing who he was type of thing. Tell me dad when you know who it is and watching him on like obviously YouTube or old videos I'm thinking. Wow, like, I think it was only like a season or two before that he was still playing in the Premier League. Is he the one who would used to wear his boots in the bath and all that? that the story? With his gloves and stuff. think it Gus Chris. told me a story, might have been Gus or actually John himself. He used to say, you've got to believe you're the best. If you want to be a good goalkeeper, believe you're the best. And apparently he used to listen to some, like have his headphones in. on the bus going to a game or whatever it was and wouldn't let nobody else listen to it or whatever. It's one of the lads and you wouldn't dare take it off apparently because he's meant to be nuts. And one of the lads did something, he must have left it and it was a recording of his own voice saying, budgie, you're the best. You're an athlete, you're a specimen of regular blues. Just talking through, I believe you're going to keep the clean sheet today. Just that mental side of him was mental. But that's next level, isn't it? it's not that hard. looked up to him and went to bed in my boots with blood. Have you thought of your team-mate yet? My dream team-mate, I'd say there's like on and off the pitch. There's a couple. On the pitch, obviously, your flair players, I was lucky enough to play with a lot of really good players in non-league. probably like to give him the ball and he's going to do something. Tom was the same. He was at Stockton when he came to Durham when I was at Durham. Off the pitch, just in the dressing room and stuff like that, was probably Gary Pearson. Although on the pitch, but I didn't really play with him. So Daniel Mitten when I was at Tegeler, he was a great captain. He came running up to Carl Madney on that. Really? Ball eye? Ball eye. Mitz was great on the pitch but off the pitch as well. was like one of them around the changing room talking to lads, even the older lads, like I was older than him, he would still come and talk to me about like what he expected and don't worry about this if you make a mistake. He was a great captain but on the pitch, likes a stew and loved playing at Haughton. Knowing you could get the ball and throw it out to the stew and we did We had something to score. You used to pick your side winded out didn't you? I lived a hard volley. You a hard volley. I aye. That's right. But again, when Tommy went back to that about, no I'm going back on myself playing with your feet and stuff and like when I was at Highpool you never got that. I never got that freedom so to speak to try that. So when I came in to non league and I played like for Durham and ended up signing for Gustavo on a Sunday because he ran out on Sunday to I could do what I wanted. could try what I wanted and just, the kicking went from like being very average to like come and catch a cross run to the end of the edge of the 18 and half volley one to in the path of our winger or on his chest or it just progressed us so much and that was obviously given players like Stu and Tom was ideal for me. I love doing it and like sort of showing off a little bit of I can do this now. Yeah. Well, I mean, I meant to say earlier on about the way goalkeepers changed and it kind of happened to one goalkeeper through watching. So I used to watch Man United and David De Gea was like, it still is actually, shot-stone wise, like absolutely ridiculous. Some of the saves he pulled off, but he couldn't adjust to that being able to play out and it was terrible. He really struggled with his feet and it kind of became the end of him at Man United because I've seen him wherever he went afterwards. I've seen Cliffsham still making worldies, you know, so he's still a fantastic keeper but the game had moved on, hadn't it? To this, you've got to be able to play with your feet. So it might have been a better era for you. so much playing out from the back side but it was... I would like to try to sing it about, especially a Sunday showing off a little bit. I'll sing it to him and spread it out there. Some of the keepers like Alison and Edison, they've got quite a few assists. They get quite a assists through the season from sort of being able to hit the likes of early on. Like you said, they're like just being able to hit them early. So yeah, brilliant stuff, James. So what we said earlier on was we would do our, very quickly we'll do our all time 11. so do you want me to go first to get it out of the So I remember a bit. 11. World 11. I'll, I'll go first. your lifetime or? No, just ever. I've gone from my lifetime. So mine is, I'll go for mine. So mine was Peter Schmeichel in goal. Cause I just saw him sort of change, change a team man United struggled goalkeeping for a while and then it just all sort of, took off. So Peter Schmeichel, right back, Cahoo. He was just like next level athlete and just comfortable on the ball. He bombed on. So he was doing that in the seventies. What is the modern game? You know, he's bombing on. Centre-halves, Bobby Miller. Correct. Third one to see him. And Yapstam. You didn't see him, should we in your life? The reason behind that is Bobby Miller was just elegant on the ball and he never, he very rarely went to ground because he saw the pass coming. And didn't accept. said he's the hardest defender he's ever played against. And, ⁓ and Yaps, Dan would run through a brick wall. I thought the two of them do together would be a good setup. then left back Roberto Carlos. There's just, I don't think there's, if you think the left back, think most people would go there straight away. Midfield, ⁓ it's a bit of an odd one. This I've gone for kind of a five, but really it's a, it's it's a three with two, two wingers really. So in the middle, me three is Dan, Keane and Maradona and then out wide I've got Messi on the right coming in with his left and I've got George Best on the left coming in on his right and then I've got Pelé centre forward that's my 11th. See that when I spoke earlier about leaving people outside, I'm really doing mine. Schmeichelinguo, Caffu right back, me two centre backs I went for, Barresi and Moua. So I'm playing out all day long. I'm not sharing that. ⁓ I went for Paolo Maldini left back. Yeah, good shells him. I went for a holder, so I wanted to free up me front five, if you like. went with Busquets, Sergio Busquets as my holder. Ahead of him I had Maradona and Rooney. I needed to get Rooney in, so I put him in like a two tens. And then I went Messi on the right, R9 down the middle and Cristiano off the left. And I can't believe I haven't put in George Best or Pelle. That is scary. There's loads, where's Gascoigne? You could jump many, where's Javi? You could go on all day, couldn't you? About the people you've missed. It's a tough one. James, can you remember yours? I struggled a little bit. Because like I say, although I watched, but I didn't really watch as much as I should have. But goal cable was hard. I went for someone like... what I wanted to sort of replicate my game. I went for Pep Airena just for the sidewinder alone. The kicking and playing and he was small and obviously Shremightel, I loved Van der Sar. loved him. Pullman when he went to Man United, he was fantastic. But Pep Airena, I Cafu right back. went John Terry and Yapstam. I liked Rio Ferdinand but I'm a Leeds fan and he left Leeds for Manchester United so I haven't put him in. You've done two brutes instead of a bit. kind of, yeah. Ashley Cole, that met his back obviously. In his height, he's probably the left back in the world. I toyed with formations a little bit so I've tried to fit people in and leave people out. I went Scolzi, Zidane. So I went like a four, two, three, one. ⁓ Ronaldo either coming off the left or right. I ⁓ see in the middle. Yeah. Ryan Giggs. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I know it's Manu, but I love it. I love Giggs. And it the, it was either R9 or Rooney. Rooney was again, obviously I know it's Leeds and Manu and you meant the I would probably go R9 just because he was special but Rooney was a special player. I would always have to Rooney in any work just because I absolutely loved him. He's one of my favourite players ever. If I took something out I would maybe move Messi out and put Rooney in the 10 and R9 up front. Yeah, we'll be here all day. So many players having their... When Sonny told us, I was like, ⁓ Jesus, I was on for hours. Go on, Tare. Well, my World XI in my lifetime, you've got George Besson, all them have a year left from years ago and Pelle, who were unbelievable. But from my lifetime, I've got Buffon in goal. Most capdiddly player, 176 appearance, I believe. He played until he was 44. He won nearly everything. So he was top keeper really. The right back was a toss up between Caffu, who I know you've mentioned, but I've gone for Zinedy. It was an Inter Milan Argentinian. Unbelievable. Fortunate that I've come across him when he played Inter Milan in the European Cup. An absolute Rolls Royce. Absolute Rolls Royce. So, so good. So he'd get my, in my team at right back. Two centre halves, Juve's already mentioned one of them, Barresi. Unbelievable. You know, he read the game so well, wasn't the biggest, but he could play as well. Another Mounds right in. ⁓ unbelievable. Really, really good. And I think he played at a time when the Italians were known for the defending, you know, really good team, their nation in the nineties. So Barresi all day long. Alongside him, might surprise a few of this, but I've gone for Cannavaro, who won the Ballon d'Or. Yeah. In 2006, a world cup winner as well, know, brilliant center half. Again, not the biggest. Could leap in the air, was very good in the air. And I think him and Borysi would be a good combination. Left back all day long, Maldini. Carlos, yes, very, very good. And Ashley Cole, all, you know, there's been some excellent left backs, just think Maldini. Win 26 trophies with Milan, 902 appearances for Milan. them three played together. Zanetti didn't did he? No he was Argentinian and he wasn't a year. But yeah just a fantastic left back, could play centre half as well. Great size you know but very very good, had an unbelievable career. Two midfielders, Xavi Barcelona. Busquets has been mentioned, was unbelievable, kept the ball for four and Xavi was... very, very, very special, you know, in that Barcelona team with Iniesta. Iniesta, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, they were superb. So Xavi, yeah, Barcelona alongside and Perlo, Peele or who, however you want to pronounce it, he could pick passes all day, you know, long, short, very, very good footballer. So him and Xavi in the midfield, just in front of them Zidane, who's again, been mentioned before, another one who's won the Ballon d'Or. won the World Cup, know, won everything. Just an unbelievable footballer wasn't he? Technically, could score goals of size on him. He role for his team. when he first touched was a joke. He'd hate to have come across him. He'd hate to have played against him. So Zidane, two lads out wide, so from the right, Messi, don't really need to say anything about it. You know, he's just top top. Ronaldo from the left, again, don't really need to say anything about him. In my life, Messi and Ronaldo have been the two standout players throughout the generation. then Ronaldo, R9, down the middle. If it wasn't for injuries, his records would be higher, but he still won the Ballon d'Or, he won the World Cup when he was 21, he won it again in 2002. So phenomenal talent. he was at his best, was a disgrace. How good he was. Unbelievable. Again, he played for Inter Milan when Ipswich played them in the European Cup and I just remember the end of the game, everyone was desperate for his shirt. And I think there was about 5,000 Ipswich fans and we're all clapping the fans and George Burley's like saying to one of the lads, where's Titus? Titus Bramble. And all of a sudden you just saw Titus running down towards where the tunnel was, after Ronaldo. Did he get it? Did he? Yeah, that's my team. again, could have been with the players in Corsica, it was so hard to pick, but there's been some special talent on them. We've probably missed loads. Absolutely. Gerrard hasn't even been mentioned at all. And he's one of the best ever in that position in midfield. It's scary. Your team, what I would say is I don't think there's anyone getting dirty on your team. They're all like... Well, they're nice ahead, bud. I do, but that was footballers Tommy's hand. He's got the biggest two centre-offs who just hit it and kicked it. So that liked in front of We'll never come from any crosses. Quite elegant, team, isn't it? Very, very elegant. It's definitely Rolls-Royce United, that one. But no, that's brilliant, James. It's been great catching up, talking about some memories and some more times. It's been brilliant. ⁓ We'll catch you next time. Don't forget to follow us on social media, click like, subscribe, whatever you need to do, give us a bit support because we need it. thanks very much. Cheers James. Cheers James. Thank you.
OM DETTA AVSNITT
In this episode, James Winter shares his football journey from youth to non-league, discussing the challenges, decisions, and memorable moments that shaped his career. He offers insights into goalkeeping, the evolution of the game, and the importance of perseverance. In this episode, Pit Yakka and James discuss football careers, coaching, and the current state of non-league football in the Northeast. They share memorable moments, insights into training, and the evolution of the game.
Keywords
football, goalkeeping, non-league, career journey, football evolution, mental health, player development football, coaching, non-league, Northeast, memories, training, player development, football history
Key Topics
James Winter's early football influences and goalkeeping start
The impact of size and skill in modern football
Transition from professional to non-league football
Challenges faced by non-league players and mental health
The importance of perseverance and adaptability in football
Evolution of goalkeeping techniques and playing styles
The role of coaching and mentorship in player development
Memorable moments and lessons from James's career Football career progression
Coaching youth players
Memorable football moments
Evolution of training and analysis
Current state of non-league football in the Northern League
Takeaways
Grassroots football is crucial for player development and community building.
Training has become more professional and analytical over the years.
Memorable moments often come from unexpected wins and personal stories.
Opportunities in non-league football are growing with more pathways to professional levels.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and overview of the episode
01:14 James Winter's football background and early influences
02:09 Playing for Hartlepool and non-league clubs
03:35 Growing up on Sherbourne Road estate and starting goalkeeping
04:28 Playing outfield and transitioning to goalkeeper
05:20 Youth career at Middlesbrough and decision to leave
06:14 Size, skill, and modern goalkeeping demands
07:33 The evolution of goalkeeping techniques
09:56 Career at Hartlepool and transition to non-league
13:02 The desire to play and career decisions
17:45 Moving into non-league football and memorable moments
22:37 Dealing with setbacks and career challenges
27:42 Reflections on football, mental health, and life lessons
34:32 The impact of club management and financial issues
44:58 Rivalries, conflicts, and memorable incidents in non-league
55:58 The importance of community and passion in football
01:00:38 Balancing coaching, playing, and personal life
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