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[SPEAKER_02]: Self-care has kind of gotten a bit like I said commercialized so a lot of times you need products or to fame like to spend money in some way on a self-care product or item.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes self-care can kind of get like woven into like something to do with your appearance as well like self-care is a face mask or it's a facial I mean that that that can kind of get woven
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[SPEAKER_02]: into these things that are very external, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the way that the how of you of self-care may change day to day, but to your point, I think the permanent part is that you are that it's coming from you and not coming from outside.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Permission the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. T and this is my sister, you're on that and we are two regular people talking about spirituality in our daily lives.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Each week we're inviting you to the internal conversation.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So let's get started with your permission.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we're back.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to Permission the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So today, we have the pleasure of speaking with badass rebellion, which I've been excited about for quite some time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been excited about the name.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And how this happened, it was in, I believe it was back in January when I was going through the process of doing my own book launch that I received a notification email from Pezie that was kind of promoting their book.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know symbiotic or something synchronicistic.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was encouraged to reach out and Yadiyada Yada, we're here.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I feel like it would be best for introductions to be done by the people themselves.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll give you the platform whoever wants to jump in first, go for it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: On the first, my name is Avery Honig and I'm a psychologist in Dallas, so I'll be hearing a lot of the same details from Lucy and Jamie, we all three are psychologists in Dallas and we're in private practice.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We have been to office together as well, which is amazing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we really started this badass rebellion.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of after we had done our own podcast for a bit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But our broadcast is called Inspiration from the couch, which came from really feeling very isolated during the pandemic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure anyone that was in private practice or having to work from home shared in that feeling of just like, you're kind of talking to people all day, but also like not really connecting.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was really nice to do something collaborative.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's when we decided, right in the midst of the pandemic, because when we decided to a podcast, and then I'll let Lucy and Jamie talk more about kind of how we went from
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[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to go Lucy?
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[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we started the podcast and we did that for a little while, like almost two years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds great to me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How did we get to the book?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think we were, after, like, we were having a really good time with the podcast and noticed, you know, like, we say the same things to a lot of our clients, a lot of our clients are our female and I think for the three of us sort of being in midlife had a big interest in that particular population of women and
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so decided we wanted to write a book.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And initially, it was a little bit more midlife focused.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we went to the Secretary of Therapy Networker conference, which is held in DC every year.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And Pessie is a sponsor there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and we were out and about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I pitched an idea to one publisher and they really, really liked it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so that kind of took us off from there and we went through that process for a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But they were for about a year because it wasn't until the following year when we went back to the conference.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And met up with Kate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She was a acquisitions editor for Pussy Rich City Books at the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so.
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[SPEAKER_01]: met with her and a very briefly pitched the idea and then it was like kind of frantic basically over the course of just a few days we switched to bridge city books as a publisher and then has I been a year and a half since then or longer?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean over two years, I don't know time flies, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going through that and then we're able to narrow in on on self abandonment
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[SPEAKER_01]: Lucy, you can talk about that maybe how we switched over to, or whatever you want to talk about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to dictate what you want to talk about.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So I am Lucy Smith, and to me like every stage you know, we're all psychologists for all in private practice.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And we all have kind of slightly different specialty areas in our private practice, but this joint endeavor.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it was born out of a little bit of loneliness and isolation.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm partly due to the pandemic, but I know for me it was also a private practice I've loved and been so grateful for my private practice, but realizing, you know, we're going to talk about prioritizing yourself today, but that private practice can like take over.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think anyone taught us this in graduate school that it can be really, really exhausting.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And I think of it like you had this really small muscle of like empathy and compassion and listening.
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[SPEAKER_04]: No one really told me that I should have like a lot of women's around my private practice that I remember coming home and just being like exhausted and depleted and like I don't even want to like listen to my kids like to read them a bedtime story talk to them like I'm just out like my friendships are not great.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So I think finally like we kind of realize like.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how sustainable this is, and I think we need something else.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm realizing that there are these other parts of my brain, and I really miss using the parts that we're collaborating with people, doing something a little more creative, where you could talk to people about what you were doing rather than it all being confidential.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think that this bad astrobellium was born out of this desire to do something a little different, something that could still be, um,
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like more than like a hobby, I guess, like something that could be potentially income generating that could like make a difference in the world that could that but use these different parts of our brain.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so it has been you know quite a joy to I don't know and it's it's been a little little windy to me so like sometimes we we started by doing more like
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[SPEAKER_04]: speaking and like a little bit of like coaching sorts of things and then like somehow this idea of a book which had always been on our each of our think individual bucket list but like okay how do we like we work really well together that was nice about starting with the podcast to see like oh we get a long well we have similar styles of like work like this could be nice and then writing the book together made it much less daunting to do it as a collaborative endeavor.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Lucy's right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was both that endemic isolation, but also this feeling I remember because we were very busy during the pandemic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There was, you know, no, no one for patients, but you're in a mental health crisis as everybody really knows.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I remember feeling that on one hand, I knew that I could not see any more patients.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was not going to be able to offer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: good care to patients or good care to myself, if I saw more patients, but I still had a capacity to do more work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this idea of like I want to I could do more, but I can't do more of this one on one patient individual patient work because it was.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was just, it was, I was at a kind of at my limit there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this idea of like, what else could we do?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the podcast was the first kind of iteration of that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And as Lucy said, we, this was speaking engagement things like that, the book, and it has been kind of a circuitous route.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that we are, I don't know where we are on that route.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, middle, I don't know, but like, but it's been, it's been really fun to be able to do together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's been something for me that has been that collaboration is something that is missing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think for a lot of people in private practice for me for sure, and it's been so nice to be able to do that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And really kind of, you know, to segue into the topic for today, prioritize yourself, trying to like a radical act of prioritizing ourselves around, like being tuned in around like, okay, we are like, topped out with this one sort of work.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so like, what do we need to do?
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[SPEAKER_04]: How do we need to adjust?
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[SPEAKER_04]: And really, like, that's been the screw lines through all of this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, we'll sit down on conversation with, okay, how are we feeling about this?
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what can we get rid of?
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[SPEAKER_04]: What do we want to take away?
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, how do we reevaluate our priorities?
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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, to really make space for what matters?
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[SPEAKER_04]: And what's going to light us up?
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[SPEAKER_04]: And what we need to do.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That is so fascinating.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in a stage right now where I feel that kind of pull to do more and part of that is have more impact and I'm wondering if that was also driving or motivating the podcast and the book for the three of you because for me it's it's more of that of.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I want to keep the one-on-one for as long as I can sustain it, but at the same time, I want to be able to provide more on a bigger scale.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Did that also come into play?
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[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely and I think actually that is really what that idea is really what started the podcast is that we were talking kind of over lunch and we were realizing we were at the time we were seeing everybody virtually during the pandemic like and we were realizing we were saying the same things to a lot of people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, wasn't what it'd be diced if we could just say these things on a platform that may be everybody could.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But some of the things we were saying were very unique and specific to the client.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But some of them were like very generally helpful to the general population.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, what'd it be great if we could get some of these?
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[SPEAKER_02]: We almost even thought like sometimes like middle health first aid.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like,
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[SPEAKER_02]: These things that you can do as a general population that could be helpful, especially in that moment when we were all kind of struggling with some of the similar, you know, some of the similar, similar issues, but absolutely that was part of like, how can we get this message that each of us were kind of, you know, resonating with lots of people within our private practices, we're like this feels like it could be more globally.
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[SPEAKER_02]: globally resonate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe that's also something that the podcast doesn't come up with a self-abandement is that we, you know, there are a book about self-abandement, that is something that seems to be more of a global, globally resonate with women as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an artist.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a psychologist and I do a whole bunch of other stuff, but I feel the same when you guys are talking about the same passion I have when I created it, I have a circle of women and just to have the impact of community and growth and and it just see the effects rippling.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I get that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I love that you build a community and talk about community and I think that's something that we have wrestled with in some former fashion.
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[SPEAKER_04]: All of us have our private practices or our individual therapy, right, and that's like the modality in which we work, but I think feeling in our own lives, the power of like community and groups and like the power of more than one in terms of really
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[SPEAKER_04]: healing and transforming, which you've probably seen in your artistic community circle as well.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I imagine, and so almost this question of, like, I were doing this individual work, but there's such power and transformation in this, like, community piece of, like, how do we, what do we do with that, right?
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, is there a way to, like, extend this and build more community, especially, like, at a time when I think people are, by and large pretty lonely.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I think many of us have a lot of, like, connections in some ways, but there's a lot of loneliness and disconnection amidst that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, my women circle, it's more a spiritual spin to it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I do introduce art as a healing tool as well, but we do work on themes like boundaries, themes that prioritize in yourself, choosing you, and all different themes are healing your inner child.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of the women have after the circle,
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[SPEAKER_00]: for a couple of hours and a lot of them tell me this is like therapy and it's just like while women gather together when they heal together it's so powerful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So great and I also do rituals we go to the beach to see the moon rise we, you know, right in tensions,
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just amazing to see the power, the power we have, the power to support, the power to build, you know, and I see that you guys are doing that as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys use permission slip as, you know, um, you self-remissions lifts and people write their stuff and I want to know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What is the biggest permission you've given yourself to prioritize yourself?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Great question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or did you need it from somebody else?
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we think one of the biggest permissions for us that I've used.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I think about before we started this work together and now after I think is to really, truly listen to my own intuition.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy is really, I think really one of those one of the people that brought that to me and NGme both.
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[SPEAKER_02]: about really getting quite a wish you guys could have seen at the very beginning of our work together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We would like pose a question and Lisa would say, hang on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to shoot like put her hands on her heart or her belly or kind of like on her legs and like take your breath.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I think it's this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it was so beautiful to watch that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, and it's gotten to the point now I'm so close with Jamie and Lisa.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I, I joke, but it's true.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'll listen to my intuition or either of yours.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And nobody's really as dear to strong.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so, but that idea, and it really was a good model for me, of like pausing and really listening.
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[SPEAKER_02]: To even think something is small, sometimes loosely, would do that of like, um, like, you know, are we hungry or are we ready for lunch?
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[SPEAKER_02]: We should we go take a break and go for a walk?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like it would be little things and then really big things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like are we ready to go at a different direction?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Or does this feel bright?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think, I think I,
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was always such a people-pleaser that it was really helpful for me to see another person do that, like to model it for me, because it was really, I'm so much more comfortable looking kind of scanning the room, kind of seeing what's the general opinion before I listen to myself, but having that model of Lucy really listening to herself and focusing on that was like,
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I gave me permission to listen.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was really, that was, I think, the biggest thing that I carry with me now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What a gift.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy and Jim here are a gift for sure.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They both are for sure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, probably one of the biggest permissions slips this permission to change your mind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I am not as much of a people pleaser, but when I commit to something, I will sort of, like, fall prey, I think to, like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: some cost bias of like once I'm in, like if I, you know, I got to keep going like if I've committed to something and like see it through even though I may be like really, you know, tired or exhausted or burnt out or whatever, like, you know, you just keep kind of like plugging along and that used to be kind of my
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[SPEAKER_01]: my tendency for a long time because, I mean, I like to be known as, you know, the dependable responsible committed kind of individual.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, I think after, I think like the
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[SPEAKER_01]: the pandemic era.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a fairly bad case of burnout because I was seeing clients, I was also supervising individuals in my private practice and I was adjunct faculty,
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[SPEAKER_01]: at one of the universities here in the Dallas area and was teaching a couple of classes there and large part of that also was supervision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just a lot everywhere.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the film, everywhere, everything everywhere all at once or whatever.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like whatever that film is, like that's what it felt like for me, like everywhere everything.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I just like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and there was kind of this expectation like that I'm going to continue on that I'm going to continue to supervise that I've been a continue to teach and all of that and so I ended up deciding like you know what I really need to go to therapy again.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And did a year-long leadership training and Lucy introduced her sort of turn me on to her stuff and I did a year-long leadership training and in order to do that you have to pull back on other things in my life and ended up doing therapy with Taylor and you know like the questions that she would pose to me really were like kind of
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[SPEAKER_01]: challenging and getting me to tune and work like every was saying was was really important and and giving me that permission to change my mind you know even if say I had committed for semester you know or said like okay y'all teach in the summer like I decided like you know what I need to like really evaluate things and I'm gonna you know turn this opportunity down I can't do it I can't do it anymore which was was very helpful yeah
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[SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember Jamie in the midst of that like at that the busiest you were at.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So Jamie is like a Disney super fan.
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[SPEAKER_04]: She's like like the like most Disney person you could ever see loves it goes off and like knows all the ins and outs.
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[SPEAKER_04]: But you'd apply to be on like the Disney like this this panel of like us expert but it was like I was almost like a part-time job like I think it's but it requires I remember you were so excited about it but also kind of like not really sure like if I have time for that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So thankfully the universe
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, and I had like one through the application process and made it like fairly far, you know, and then it was like, I was talking to my best friend Sarah, who's this ecologist in Virginia one day and she's like, so tell me again, how many hours does this require?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I don't know, like 15, 20 and she's like, okay, now tell me all of the other things that you do and I'm like, okay, shut up, shut up, shut up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and sometimes like if I overspaddle myself like Sarah is a good touchstone and my my little younger sister Hillary is a really good touch tone Touchstone for me too like I'll say like okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm seeing clients today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I started eight.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't until seven.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if I have a lunch and there, you know, and my sister will just text back.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you hate yourself?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's hilarious, they're right, so she's dressed with me.
20:31.473 --> 20:40.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Not with other people, I'm usually like the more direct one, but you guys know y'all are siblings, so you can, you've got that kind of like where you can just really like lay it out there.
20:40.904 --> 20:43.827
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, she'll take those friends there.
20:43.947 --> 20:44.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:44.327 --> 20:45.789
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll ground and say, hey,
20:46.249 --> 21:12.697
[SPEAKER_01]: what the heck are you doing absolutely yes absolutely so yes Sarah Sarah is very direct my friend in Virginia and my sister is very direct and then you know Lucy and Avery also too or like or or very direct as well in a very kind in loving way Okay because you brought it I have to know what is your favorite doesn't they film
21:13.960 --> 21:17.064
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, girl, like I have to know now.
21:17.084 --> 21:23.293
[SPEAKER_01]: Disney, already want like Pixar, do you want Disney, Disney, Star Wars, Star Wars, that's Marvel.
21:23.913 --> 21:28.660
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Star Wars and Marvel, and that's like the,
21:29.140 --> 21:32.541
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not original, that's the, but I do love Star Wars.
21:32.681 --> 21:34.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love Marvel.
21:34.601 --> 21:37.142
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big fan of the of Pixar films.
21:37.282 --> 21:40.843
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I psychologist, I love and side out, and then side out too.
21:41.463 --> 21:45.644
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have those plushy figurines all over my office.
21:45.664 --> 21:46.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I have all of them.
21:46.804 --> 21:47.744
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all in my office.
21:48.004 --> 21:50.445
[SPEAKER_01]: They probably don't, I don't know, maybe the only one in our office.
21:50.485 --> 21:54.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I have toys, I have like, Disney inspired toys and things in my office.
21:54.786 --> 21:55.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though I don't,
21:59.387 --> 22:01.269
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we only don't toys.
22:01.629 --> 22:02.509
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:02.870 --> 22:04.070
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not those, Lucy.
22:04.110 --> 22:04.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:05.191 --> 22:05.571
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, God.
22:05.591 --> 22:07.172
[SPEAKER_04]: You just should get to a different drink.
22:07.653 --> 22:10.335
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, totally different drink.
22:10.435 --> 22:12.136
[SPEAKER_03]: Different kinds of adult toys.
22:12.156 --> 22:12.576
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
22:14.777 --> 22:17.499
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I live and sit out and sit out too.
22:17.639 --> 22:43.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I sometimes I'm like, God, I wish I could have been a collaborator on those films because I think they just do such a great job of person I'm having emotions and how they work and sometimes I assign them as homework to clients that have never seen them or are having difficulty with trying to identify emotions and so sometimes that can be really really helpful for folks to look at it in a different way.
22:44.312 --> 22:45.692
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so fascinating.
22:45.793 --> 22:49.714
[SPEAKER_03]: I usually assign sleeping beauty and beauty in the beast.
22:53.034 --> 22:53.795
[SPEAKER_04]: Why those two?
22:54.255 --> 23:08.018
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for the, the, the journey, the masculine takes to kind of integrate their feminine and, and the journey, the, the feminine takes to integrate their masculine,
23:14.461 --> 23:16.523
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes out and search of her father.
23:16.543 --> 23:25.555
[SPEAKER_03]: And the idea of her having an internal masculine is repulsive, right?
23:26.095 --> 23:29.600
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's this big massive shadowy.
23:31.662 --> 23:45.800
[SPEAKER_03]: beast figure that she can either run away from or or kind of go toward and then awaken her internal masculine and then those those are usually the
23:47.462 --> 23:50.345
[SPEAKER_03]: Only once that I, oh, monsters ink too.
23:50.665 --> 24:05.880
[SPEAKER_03]: And the parallel with with anxiety, with that experience of like the monster universe is just being afraid of something that you don't really know and what's waiting behind the door, I think those are the ones that.
24:09.761 --> 24:11.762
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
24:11.902 --> 24:13.803
[SPEAKER_03]: Or I use them as metaphors, right?
24:13.963 --> 24:14.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
24:15.444 --> 24:17.525
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't actually have to see the film.
24:17.585 --> 24:23.327
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an idea of a film as like an archetypal thing because it's been our own society for so long.
24:24.088 --> 24:28.970
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to skip over Lucy because I would see her not answering the question.
24:31.151 --> 24:32.291
[SPEAKER_04]: pervitions, let's see.
24:32.311 --> 24:37.013
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so at the probably the biggest one, I think I've played with more recently as the pervition to rest.
24:38.233 --> 24:55.099
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think there's been like a fundamental, really big shift somehow in the past few years from doing to just being and allowing like a lot of spaciousness around getting out of that like hustle and grind mentality, and just allowing myself to do far less.
24:57.955 --> 25:00.136
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I need for whatever reason.
25:00.156 --> 25:08.558
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just in a phase right now where I need a lot more rest than maybe I would want and but that I just didn't like leaning into it and trying to trust.
25:09.698 --> 25:18.981
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's interesting that's like with you know being in midlife and a lot of this messaging around you know midlife and menopause and that you shouldn't like be strong and eat all your protein and live so much and.
25:19.541 --> 25:36.485
[SPEAKER_04]: And I work with eating disorders in my private practice, so I think all of that bothers me a little bit from the eating disorder, kind of diety, culture message that it feels like it's tied into that, but does I've really been thinking about, I think the other thing is like, or we ever allowed to just rest, like, why a purchasing age 50, do I need to be like the fittest and the strongest I've ever done?
25:36.525 --> 25:39.925
[SPEAKER_04]: Like am I ever allowed to have like a gradual decline?
25:39.945 --> 25:43.906
[SPEAKER_04]: Like could that be okay or does it always have to be like endlessly better and better?
25:43.966 --> 25:46.467
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I just feel like exhausted by all of that.
25:47.487 --> 26:06.513
[SPEAKER_00]: So you are allowed to rest for so yeah, and to listen to your body That's awesome Teddy is all a rather confident you know you mentioned working hours training protein Yeah, check pro-kibble yet
26:12.436 --> 26:16.899
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I feel like the concept of self care has been changing.
26:16.919 --> 26:24.984
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, quick, before we go and you don't have permission to slip that you do, just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, which ones.
26:27.680 --> 26:47.041
[SPEAKER_03]: My biggest one is when I don't work out like when I give myself permission to not work out and and that includes my light dog and that I've introduced to my routine and.
26:48.562 --> 26:59.869
[SPEAKER_03]: part of that is because I sit, I mean obviously, I sit for work a lot and all of the activities that I do outside of work as well.
27:01.350 --> 27:10.076
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sitting right now doing this, I sit to write, I do quite a bit of writing on my own as well.
27:10.876 --> 27:16.400
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I find that a lot of the things that I do are very sedentary.
27:17.021 --> 27:25.647
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the same time, I try to get anywhere from six to 10 hours of working out a week.
27:26.368 --> 27:28.830
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I take that
27:31.998 --> 27:34.380
[SPEAKER_03]: to a week.
27:34.940 --> 27:46.709
[SPEAKER_03]: It's I'm trying to embrace how good it is for my body because I'm also seeing the gains in my weightlifting and all of the other things as well.
27:48.110 --> 27:49.031
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's one big
27:57.722 --> 27:58.502
[SPEAKER_00]: My turn.
27:58.583 --> 28:10.849
[SPEAKER_00]: So the biggest I think the biggest permission I've given myself this year has been to permission to be sexy, permission to be body-happy.
28:11.469 --> 28:16.532
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all my life, I looked at pictures of myself and been like, oh, in high school, I was so thin.
28:16.632 --> 28:18.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I never felt thin.
28:18.413 --> 28:21.095
[SPEAKER_00]: I never felt, you know what I mean?
28:21.135 --> 28:21.355
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
28:22.363 --> 28:23.644
[SPEAKER_00]: beautiful in that way.
28:23.704 --> 28:25.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I always wanted more.
28:25.164 --> 28:28.486
[SPEAKER_00]: I always was looking for the, oh, I need to look fit.
28:28.526 --> 28:29.646
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to be skinnier.
28:29.706 --> 28:33.048
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to be this because this is what the magazine is showing me.
28:33.908 --> 28:37.550
[SPEAKER_00]: But now I'm like, I'm loving my body, you know, like,
28:38.911 --> 28:54.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I do high yoga every day, and for Mother's Day, actually for Mother's Day last year, it was the first time I gave myself permission to just wear a sports bra and so why did a little roll sticks out?
28:56.164 --> 29:03.450
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave myself permission to do that for my 50th birthday, I gave myself permission to wear red.
29:07.453 --> 29:13.817
[SPEAKER_00]: it was sexy, it was too much, it was too provocative, you know, and I always felt uncomfortable with that color.
29:14.398 --> 29:17.760
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm like, I look fabulous, right?
29:18.560 --> 29:21.902
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've given myself those permissions to be
29:23.123 --> 29:31.747
[SPEAKER_00]: To enjoy every single curve for my body even when I smile the wrinkles around the eyes You know, he's smiling.
29:31.848 --> 29:48.056
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if you have wrinkles around you know, like just so I'm giving myself that Love and happiness, you know We have a cousin that's body happy and every time I see her post and everything and she's like oh my god
29:49.076 --> 29:50.237
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to learn from you.
29:50.257 --> 29:50.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:50.858 --> 29:55.602
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like she's so, she just welcomes every curve of her body.
29:56.543 --> 30:00.566
[SPEAKER_04]: And not like I've ever heard that phrase body happy, but I love that.
30:03.640 --> 30:28.405
[SPEAKER_00]: she is and so I'm I'm getting there I'm not there like my cousin I'm like but I'm like taking steps to free myself from all of this you know you have to cover your legs you have you know like I went to school you can show there it's all of these things and so I've always been like I'm coming up you know I'm showing too much and I'm like just it just
30:29.671 --> 30:31.372
[SPEAKER_00]: enjoy your body, enjoy your lives, be free in that way as well.
30:31.392 --> 30:32.092
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't help that work Catholic.
30:32.112 --> 30:44.857
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that
30:44.957 --> 31:07.289
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the whole guilt I'm like showing if you show if people look at you You're for you wearing sexy clothes, you know, if you get assaulted, it's your fault But were you wearing you shouldn't be wearing that so all of these things growing up with all of that was like, okay I don't need to make myself visible, you know, like I need to cover up any two and now I'm like
31:08.589 --> 31:13.471
[SPEAKER_00]: just enjoy enjoy your body every inch of it.
31:13.911 --> 31:15.212
[SPEAKER_03]: Stop tempting men.
31:17.173 --> 31:18.533
[SPEAKER_00]: You heard that, have you?
31:18.913 --> 31:22.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's gold.
31:22.795 --> 31:27.177
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, okay, so
31:29.310 --> 31:36.236
[SPEAKER_03]: self-care, self-care has been something that I feel like has been transforming, right?
31:36.296 --> 31:52.529
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like at some point it was, you know, taking baths or going to the spa, and I feel like there's a much more grounded version of it where it's taking care of yourself of
31:53.370 --> 32:10.548
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm going to tidy my home so that I can have a clear mind or I'm going to take care of myself through cooking and doing things for the self that are nurturing in a much deeper way.
32:12.010 --> 32:29.406
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's the sense of self-care as a temporary escapism of like, okay, well, I'm going to take care of myself by taking this vacation versus being able to prioritize the self in
32:30.547 --> 32:50.275
[SPEAKER_03]: a sort of permanent lifestyle sort of way and the distinction of that is it's a stark contrast is is there a way to kind of speak to that that difference and how you would go about doing
32:58.482 --> 33:20.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, and this, I think one thing we talked about together and in the book two is that I think one issue that I have or we have with self care right now is that sometimes it gets very commercialized and that self care can be oftentimes we we talk about like it doesn't need to be in other item on your to do less like I think that especially over scheduled.
33:21.424 --> 33:47.242
[SPEAKER_02]: like hustle culture over busy women especially kind of like have okay and I also got to do self care and I think somehow self care has kind of gotten a bit like I say commercialize so a lot of times you need products or debate but like to spend money in some way on a self care product or item I think sometimes self care can kind of get like woven into like something to do with your appearance as well like self care is a face mask or it's a facial I mean that that can kind
33:48.543 --> 33:50.685
[SPEAKER_02]: into these things that are very external.
33:51.125 --> 33:51.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
33:52.006 --> 34:05.737
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the way that the how of you of self-care may change day to day, but to your point, I think the permanent part is that you are that it's coming from you and not coming from outside.
34:05.777 --> 34:10.421
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I'm the only one that knows that if if my self-care today is to be
34:11.502 --> 34:16.948
[SPEAKER_02]: very active and clean up and do all of these different errands or if myself care today would be to rest.
34:17.188 --> 34:18.269
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the only one that knows that.
34:18.810 --> 34:26.898
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm getting like a, you know, thin, you know, self-care hacks from like some Instagram post, that could not be more external, right?
34:27.459 --> 34:27.999
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think
34:34.386 --> 34:37.127
[SPEAKER_02]: bidding is for it to come from inside.
34:37.267 --> 34:40.267
[SPEAKER_02]: And so made self care may look like going to get a facial.
34:40.287 --> 34:49.810
[SPEAKER_02]: That may absolutely that's I'm not judging that, but it certainly is not going to come from you scrolling and for our Googling, what do I need to do just to care for myself and then finding it there?
34:50.250 --> 34:53.310
[SPEAKER_02]: It needs to come from us, right?
34:53.810 --> 35:00.612
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's going on with like your own intuition, your own gut feeling, your own wisdom of, oh, this is what we need right now.
35:02.308 --> 35:04.129
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a allergic to scrolling.
35:04.169 --> 35:04.990
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I laughed.
35:05.811 --> 35:07.332
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't do it.
35:09.994 --> 35:22.103
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like to piggyback on what Avery is saying, I think the three of us have, I think, a practice that we do for self-care is asking ourselves, what do I want, what do I need?
35:24.225 --> 35:26.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, day to day throughout the day.
35:27.307 --> 35:35.854
[SPEAKER_01]: encourage our clients to do that because again, like what I've ever was saying, I mean, it has to come from inside because it made look very different from day to day, right?
35:35.914 --> 35:45.582
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I may not feel like working out for an hour today, like what what I usually do and maybe like what's going to feel good for me actually is to go and
35:46.182 --> 35:53.586
[SPEAKER_01]: and just do a little stroll around the neighborhood or sit outside or something that's going to be calming and peaceful.
35:53.606 --> 36:10.115
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we talk about numbing in the book and I think sometimes like that is a real sort of insidious thing that happens to everybody where it may feel like kind of like self-care like we're doing something but you rarely feel better after the fact.
36:10.615 --> 36:26.830
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like if I'm really intentional about watching a K drama that I'm totally into and I know that the episode comes out on Friday and I'm going to like intentionally sort of carve out time for that because I know that's for me and I want to do it.
36:27.711 --> 36:29.031
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect Crown Disney Plus.
36:29.131 --> 36:29.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Take a peek.
36:29.752 --> 36:30.432
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really good.
36:30.592 --> 36:31.352
[SPEAKER_01]: The last episode.
36:31.372 --> 36:32.032
[SPEAKER_01]: So stop tomorrow.
36:33.693 --> 36:44.936
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's for me versus you know how when you lay there and you're on Netflix and you're just looking at preview preview preview preview preview but you're not really into it.
36:44.996 --> 36:48.417
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just you feel kind of done and you don't really feel very good afterwards.
36:49.198 --> 36:56.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think like the intentionality around it is is really important, but starting with those like, what do I want?
36:56.768 --> 36:57.549
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I need?
36:58.810 --> 37:02.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, or good prompts to help folks clue in.
37:02.798 --> 37:03.699
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
37:03.959 --> 37:07.002
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done what you said the whole preview preview preview preview.
37:07.022 --> 37:08.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's called 30 minutes.
37:08.944 --> 37:12.067
[SPEAKER_00]: Looking at previous in a day and I don't want anything because I'm the entire.
37:12.227 --> 37:13.168
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:13.188 --> 37:13.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's awesome.
37:13.989 --> 37:14.549
[SPEAKER_01]: It's awesome.
37:14.649 --> 37:15.550
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so exciting.
37:15.870 --> 37:16.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Turn the TV off.
37:17.572 --> 37:18.753
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a TV anymore.
37:22.236 --> 37:31.487
[SPEAKER_04]: like connected to some of that I know one of the prompts even thinking about this podcast today was like, is there like a non-negotiable way you prioritize yourself each day?
37:31.507 --> 37:35.932
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think for years I might have had like, oh, I've, I've moved my body pretty much every day, right?
37:36.112 --> 37:39.817
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, whatever it may be, but I think as I've gone over time, like I actually don't have it.
37:40.117 --> 37:44.298
[SPEAKER_04]: The only thing that's non-negotiable is being able to tune in and see what I need to do.
37:44.779 --> 37:49.460
[SPEAKER_04]: Because if I have this script of things I need to check off, I need to follow that.
37:49.480 --> 37:53.081
[SPEAKER_04]: The came very disconnected and more like going through the motions.
37:53.121 --> 37:58.843
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't really tell me much about where I am in this one particular moment and what it is I need.
38:01.881 --> 38:03.862
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the flexibility around that.
38:04.422 --> 38:05.462
[SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.
38:05.482 --> 38:06.163
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:06.563 --> 38:19.387
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it's that flexibility that allows us to explore new areas of who we are but also what we need in the present moment.
38:20.928 --> 38:30.436
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like to trust in your intuition because your body is speaking to you, telling you what you need, like, now, stay in bed, woman.
38:31.196 --> 38:32.377
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the whole way.
38:33.418 --> 38:33.979
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
38:33.999 --> 38:36.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:37.001 --> 38:37.962
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all, absolutely.
38:40.142 --> 38:54.296
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, okay, so it was interesting when when I reviewed kind of the ear website, it mentioned how you guys were friends for over a decade.
38:55.858 --> 39:01.601
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm wondering, like, just kind of, what is the glue?
39:01.721 --> 39:14.569
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it, was it almost like the three of you were attracted to each other based on like a common ideology or was it just going through potentially the grind of school?
39:14.609 --> 39:17.351
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys want to school together or they're,
39:19.292 --> 39:26.021
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever sustained that relationship because it's beautiful to have a friendship that that lasts for so long.
39:26.101 --> 39:27.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Or motherhood, right?
39:27.243 --> 39:36.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you all you have teen kids and you have, I don't know, maybe you met a school at some point because I have friends that you meet that way, you know?
39:37.929 --> 39:40.391
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it was, none of us went to school together, right?
39:40.411 --> 39:46.158
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think actually where we all ended up like first being together was in like a weekly consultation group.
39:46.519 --> 39:50.243
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so when you come into primary practice right, it's kind of lonely, it's isolating.
39:50.283 --> 39:52.766
[SPEAKER_04]: And so being new in practice, we started this consultation group.
39:52.786 --> 39:55.849
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think Avery and I started it first with someone else.
39:56.844 --> 40:00.087
[SPEAKER_04]: And then a few years later, maybe Jamie joined as well, right?
40:00.147 --> 40:03.990
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we've had this kind of rhythm where we kind of got to know each other.
40:04.010 --> 40:06.472
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think there was just a lot in common, right?
40:06.492 --> 40:10.435
[SPEAKER_04]: So once again, all psychologists, all the same field, we have kids around the same age.
40:11.436 --> 40:13.257
[SPEAKER_04]: Adrian, I for a while, had kids at the same school.
40:13.277 --> 40:20.783
[SPEAKER_04]: And we would laugh a little bit that this is like the super target of friendships, for instance, someone who understands what it's like to be in these different environments and have the same sort of career.
40:21.864 --> 40:28.776
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so I think there was just a lot of overlap when we were all very aligned and how we were thinking about things, the way we approach things and
40:30.071 --> 40:35.956
[SPEAKER_04]: So then we went from like the consultation group, that kind of had fizzled out, but maybe like around the pandemic.
40:36.456 --> 40:41.600
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we kind of started the podcast, which was a great way to kind of like, all right, how do we work together?
40:41.640 --> 40:51.628
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we know we are friends and we have a lot in common, and we think similarly, but what about this like piece about how we, because you can be friends with people but not want to work with them, right?
40:51.648 --> 40:54.630
[SPEAKER_04]: That's like a different sort of thing we're tapping into, as well.
40:54.650 --> 40:58.654
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that enabled us to kind of play around with that piece and see that there was a lot of,
40:59.314 --> 41:01.836
[SPEAKER_04]: alignment and similarities there.
41:02.236 --> 41:06.159
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also have sisters doesn't mean you want to work with them.
41:07.160 --> 41:07.600
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
41:07.880 --> 41:09.881
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you trying to say?
41:09.901 --> 41:17.066
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me, you know, you can just go out and say we're all like psychologists here.
41:17.086 --> 41:20.469
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that I went to a podcast with my own sister.
41:22.149 --> 41:29.592
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good thing she doesn't listen, whoever she is, we have two sisters, by the way, yeah, whoever she is.
41:29.612 --> 41:30.932
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking, Maddie.
41:33.013 --> 41:34.634
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you say that?
41:35.274 --> 41:36.854
[SPEAKER_03]: You had an easy owl.
41:36.994 --> 41:39.175
[SPEAKER_03]: I was giving you an easy owl.
41:39.335 --> 41:41.336
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she doesn't listen to the podcast, you're right.
41:41.356 --> 41:41.916
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't.
41:42.839 --> 41:44.460
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Paola does either.
41:44.540 --> 41:47.523
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, Marisa will do a podcast with me either.
41:47.783 --> 41:49.505
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's not easy.
41:49.525 --> 41:50.345
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably easier.
41:50.445 --> 41:54.329
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're the most definitely not to a podcast with you.
41:54.429 --> 41:54.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:56.991 --> 42:01.835
[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe cry.
42:02.255 --> 42:04.597
[SPEAKER_00]: I cry when I laugh.
42:05.638 --> 42:06.559
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's so...
42:08.733 --> 42:13.195
[SPEAKER_03]: any difficulties or challenges with boundaries.
42:13.595 --> 42:14.956
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean placing boundaries.
42:15.496 --> 42:25.961
[SPEAKER_03]: When you say no to something, you're saying yes to something, when you say yes to something, you say no to something, and if we're looking at the
42:27.161 --> 42:29.223
[SPEAKER_03]: self as as the priorities.
42:29.283 --> 42:37.971
[SPEAKER_03]: So being able to have a full cup and give from a full cup, that means saying no a bunch, right?
42:38.791 --> 42:45.517
[SPEAKER_03]: And then being very, very strategic and thoughtful about saying yes, any kind of,
42:46.338 --> 42:59.838
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess guilt or or anything like that was with establishing boundaries, maintaining boundaries, especially if we're talking from the theme of prioritizing this out.
43:00.579 --> 43:00.819
[SPEAKER_02]: So we
43:01.260 --> 43:04.143
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, it'd be the short answer as guilt is going to be there.
43:04.263 --> 43:09.147
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talk about boundary, we've talked about that with several different groups.
43:09.227 --> 43:21.638
[SPEAKER_02]: And we come up with this kind of like picture kind of metaphor that when we say, yes, to something, we think that we're avoiding guilt, right?
43:21.678 --> 43:23.380
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're kind of like weighing like,
43:23.920 --> 43:26.803
[SPEAKER_02]: do we, if we say, yes, then we get to avoid guilt.
43:26.983 --> 43:30.186
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of what a lot of times we say, yes, we only need no.
43:30.306 --> 43:32.488
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll say, yes, because we're trying to avoid guilt, right?
43:33.289 --> 43:38.013
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I think it's easy to forget in that moment is that when you say, yes, you may avoid guilt.
43:38.193 --> 43:42.457
[SPEAKER_02]: You may, like if Lucy asks me to do something, and I say, yes, I mean, not guilty.
43:43.478 --> 43:44.699
[SPEAKER_02]: because for saying no.
43:45.180 --> 43:52.326
[SPEAKER_02]: But depending on the ask, if Lucy's ask is really big and I really don't have time for it and really should have said no.
43:52.346 --> 43:56.129
[SPEAKER_02]: I am going to also, I am going to still feel some negative feelings.
43:56.189 --> 43:57.250
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel resentful.
43:57.270 --> 43:59.752
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel stressed and frantic.
43:59.912 --> 44:00.993
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel tired.
44:01.093 --> 44:01.994
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel angry.
44:02.034 --> 44:05.137
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a lot of other negative feelings that can come.
44:05.777 --> 44:06.977
[SPEAKER_02]: from saying yes.
44:07.277 --> 44:14.200
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we I think that we often think another way that we kind of described it is like that sometimes yes is like a credit card.
44:14.220 --> 44:19.481
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it feels so good to say yes, feel so good to like get those shoes and take them home.
44:19.921 --> 44:29.544
[SPEAKER_02]: But when the credit card bill comes or when they're like having to act on that yes comes, having to write that article that you said that you would write or having to go teach that class that you said you would teach.
44:32.365 --> 44:53.354
[SPEAKER_02]: Like frustrating and difficult and so this idea of like really thinking almost like thinking through the guess it's like okay It's going to feel good to say yes, but how is it going to feel to like deliver on this and And being able to kind of think about those feelings that it's not勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍�勍�勍�勍�勍�勍���勍������������������������������������������������������������������������������
44:56.275 --> 44:58.696
[SPEAKER_02]: and two that keeps our focus outside, right?
44:59.616 --> 45:04.337
[SPEAKER_02]: But to be able to say, like, yeah, they're going to be negative feelings either way, or could be, right?
45:04.357 --> 45:06.238
[SPEAKER_02]: There could be negative feelings for saying yes.
45:06.638 --> 45:09.619
[SPEAKER_02]: There could be negative feelings by, you know, that a company saying no.
45:10.279 --> 45:12.800
[SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of idea of tolerating that,
45:13.600 --> 45:17.621
[SPEAKER_02]: acknowledging that that's coming, the guilt or the resentment or whatever might be coming.
45:17.701 --> 45:32.485
[SPEAKER_02]: And this idea of our own ability to tolerate that discomfort has been really, I think powerful for us as we're trying to set our own boundaries and for other people as they're as we're kind of coaching them to do the same.
45:32.705 --> 45:36.146
[SPEAKER_00]: As you were talking, I was thinking, also you buy the shoes
45:44.428 --> 46:04.740
[SPEAKER_00]: saying yes because something looks pretty or something looks oh my god this is a great idea I'm gonna look fabulous in this and then wearing it and walking with it it's a different story so saying yes also has to come with like okay is it really also a yes for me?
46:05.712 --> 46:08.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be comfortable when I dance salsa?
46:08.774 --> 46:16.819
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be comfortable when I walk or, you know, and if it's just for looks, then that's a no.
46:17.740 --> 46:19.061
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not workable, yeah.
46:19.141 --> 46:19.381
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:19.521 --> 46:19.681
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
46:20.202 --> 46:21.042
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I love that.
46:21.082 --> 46:23.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I if I get stinging, sending that metaphor?
46:23.324 --> 46:25.605
[SPEAKER_02]: Could it really is like trying it on it?
46:25.705 --> 46:26.726
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that takes time.
46:26.906 --> 46:30.468
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people get into the habit of like, you ask me something?
46:30.588 --> 46:30.809
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
46:31.529 --> 46:40.832
[SPEAKER_02]: And don't, and not even giving themselves a second to say, wait a minute, kind of like Jamie, like we were talking about earlier with the, with the Disney opportunity of like, wait a minute, like this time, the amazing.
46:41.412 --> 46:48.094
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm already stretched so thin with my time, like even an amazing awesome opportunity to make a stop, I may be a know for that right now.
46:48.914 --> 46:53.737
[SPEAKER_02]: But all of that requires time, a lot of times it requires like quiet and tuning in.
46:54.577 --> 46:59.480
[SPEAKER_02]: But that requires us not to get into that, to try to break up almost with that automatic.
46:59.820 --> 47:01.561
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody's asking me something, I say yes.
47:02.181 --> 47:04.763
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of people kind of get into that habit.
47:05.500 --> 47:07.220
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not sure to get themselves in place.
47:07.500 --> 47:10.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you guys mentioned giving yourself permission to change your mind.
47:10.821 --> 47:11.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Return the shoes.
47:12.521 --> 47:14.262
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're not comfortable.
47:14.442 --> 47:15.322
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so funny.
47:15.882 --> 47:21.403
[SPEAKER_03]: Literally, my niece just got new running shoes and they're too small.
47:21.923 --> 47:23.683
[SPEAKER_03]: And she has to return them.
47:23.743 --> 47:29.825
[SPEAKER_03]: So this scenario is like so real in my place right now.
47:29.925 --> 47:30.525
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that bad.
47:30.745 --> 47:31.305
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
47:32.394 --> 47:34.535
[SPEAKER_00]: And it probably matches amazing with her outfits.
47:36.277 --> 47:38.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Like those shoes look perfect with my dress.
47:39.259 --> 47:41.360
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not comfortable.
47:41.400 --> 47:42.561
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they're too small.
47:44.682 --> 47:53.728
[SPEAKER_03]: What's funny is like, while you were bringing up those topics, what I've been kind of coming across for myself is my name.
47:55.206 --> 48:18.988
[SPEAKER_03]: my most important commodity right now is time and I'm really mindful of how I spend my time and I'm protective of my time and and I have to be a little bit more flexible with it because sometimes I go into calculations because
48:20.129 --> 48:29.096
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm weighing all of these different projects that I'm working on, the private practice and the send that and this other thing.
48:29.996 --> 48:38.743
[SPEAKER_03]: And part of the things that go into, okay, what how many things am I doing and do I have time for this?
48:39.143 --> 48:42.405
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of it is bids for connection, right?
48:42.445 --> 48:44.007
[SPEAKER_03]: So my father
48:48.910 --> 48:55.973
[SPEAKER_03]: My father, who's 85, has been over time just telling me that he would like to see more of me.
48:56.794 --> 48:58.074
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's great.
48:58.234 --> 49:09.800
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great thing to have and also that he's actually vocalizing a desire and he's making a bid for connection, which is also
49:11.621 --> 49:11.921
[SPEAKER_03]: new.
49:12.462 --> 49:18.306
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this is new that he's kind of consistently been telling me the same things.
49:18.346 --> 49:21.468
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm factoring in, okay.
49:22.469 --> 49:30.154
[SPEAKER_03]: The calculation of is once a month enough and trying to make things in my mind work of
49:31.015 --> 49:52.164
[SPEAKER_03]: time allocation, leaving the city because he actually lives in Connecticut, the neighboring state, and driving time, and okay, if I drive there, how can I spend, you know, and maybe it's just not that difficult, and maybe it's just, I just go, this is more often.
49:53.582 --> 49:55.444
[SPEAKER_03]: versus doing all this math.
49:56.064 --> 49:56.344
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
49:57.065 --> 50:20.843
[SPEAKER_02]: What I do think sometimes at one of the things we talked about with Down Street that sometimes can be helpful to make the decision really intentionally, like once they aren't constantly make that decision, almost like making like a policy or like a rule, like whether it's around like visitation or anything else, if like, I think sometimes it's more helpful to say like, I, you know, I would rather not be leaving town.
50:21.363 --> 50:39.337
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, more than once in a month or more than once or whatever, like the kind of like really tuning in and getting clear so you don't have to make that decision every single time, but also having that flexibility that like if if something comes up, you're not going to hold yourself to it like either way, but I do think that that idea of really seeing what what works for you.
50:40.699 --> 50:55.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And being able to kind of like go with that versus constantly questioning because I think sometimes with all of that math it's like you're trying to give yourself permission to make the decision one way or the other when you could probably just like decide this is what's going to work for me and give yourself permission for that.
50:56.476 --> 51:17.596
[SPEAKER_04]: to be what what you do and then flex the ability to change out if it stops working for one reason are the other, you know, yeah, so even the heart of us that wants to like fix it and figure it out, wait in the fan, like I do that a while, like trying to figure out the next like five years, right, where it's like, okay, maybe we just like, I plan the next time I'm going to visit him, and I can go like on a case by case basis rather than having to do so much at once.
51:22.090 --> 51:32.258
[SPEAKER_03]: And making the decision beforehand is something that will help me just not think about it so hard.
51:32.858 --> 51:33.059
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
51:33.539 --> 51:35.741
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't like what stuff we're going for.
51:35.761 --> 51:40.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the one time they say she reaches where a black t-shirt when we do the black podcast.
51:40.464 --> 51:42.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, absolutely not.
51:42.886 --> 51:43.787
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm wearing colors.
51:44.968 --> 51:47.410
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, just if you didn't have to think about it.
51:49.510 --> 52:08.655
[SPEAKER_03]: I do have a therapy uniform and it's this, I was supposed to see, anyway, this is the therapy uniform of a button up in the blazer and I just take the next button up and pick a blazer and that's, I don't have to think about it.
52:19.137 --> 52:30.181
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, any, any other thoughts on boundaries or nose and yeses?
52:30.682 --> 52:31.582
[SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes.
52:33.731 --> 52:43.659
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to kind of do inventory on what you say yes to regularly to see if it really is kind of truly a yes.
52:43.699 --> 52:59.092
[SPEAKER_01]: I know for me What happens is maybe some of the stuff that I've said yes to We can't avoid like a not-any and routine things in life, you know, we have the half-to-use that we have to do but
53:00.092 --> 53:06.497
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, sometimes what happens is I'll say yes because I'm I'm sticking out something and I don't know quite what it is.
53:06.637 --> 53:26.093
[SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe it's me trying to deal with boredom and so Um, I'll I'll say yes to this this or this when really if I would have just taken some time to look at, you know, to kind of like go back to the, the shoe uh, credit card metaphor, you know, if I've gone in my closet and I see what I have and like do I like this anymore?
53:26.553 --> 53:28.735
[SPEAKER_01]: like, do I need to throw it out?
53:29.196 --> 53:43.529
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe replace it with something else that is now a better fit or something that I would just enjoy, you know, a lot more that would be great to kind of do do some inventory around that, you know, like I think like,
53:44.890 --> 54:02.155
[SPEAKER_01]: our hobbies and fun things that people a lot of times unfortunately look at us like the optional things in life you know I'll do inventory on those like you know I like to bake and and cook but over the past few years I've really gotten into
54:02.775 --> 54:28.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Gardening and that is what sort of like lights me up even more and so you know if something is kind of not lighting me up in the same way rather than adding on to the stuff that I'm already doing like it's it's better for me to stop take a look at it see if I want to let it go and then if I need to to add in something else then say us to the new thing
54:32.427 --> 54:55.822
[SPEAKER_00]: question us mothers because we have teens and we have and they have, you know, activities and whatnot and when it comes to prioritizing yourself and not feeling guilty about it right like or or your kids would be very good at also making you feel like the guilt rep right or not feeling selfish.
54:57.465 --> 55:01.951
[SPEAKER_00]: about no, right now I need to just go.
55:02.231 --> 55:12.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I thought about it yesterday as I was thinking about also mental health and women that are just giving birth and they're having babies and they're not.
55:13.306 --> 55:14.487
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm caring for their.
55:15.228 --> 55:17.610
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the hormones are going bananas.
55:17.650 --> 55:31.421
[SPEAKER_00]: The kid is crying and crying and I remember an episode of my son just crying and crying and crying and I'm like, if I stay with you right now, I'm gonna hurt you because I don't know what else to do.
55:31.481 --> 55:36.425
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to make you stop crying and so what I did is I put them down.
55:36.746 --> 55:38.107
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, what's up?
55:38.427 --> 55:39.288
[SPEAKER_00]: I put them down.
55:40.008 --> 55:47.330
[SPEAKER_00]: and I walked outside for five minutes to the front porch and I just like breathe.
55:47.830 --> 55:50.030
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not you breathe, right?
55:50.070 --> 55:58.992
[SPEAKER_00]: So giving myself even though it was five minutes, I prioritized my mental health.
55:59.092 --> 56:02.493
[SPEAKER_00]: My legs otherwise I'm going to be a monster to you.
56:02.993 --> 56:03.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
56:03.193 --> 56:04.253
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to turn into this
56:07.028 --> 56:13.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And so giving, now that they're older, obviously, there's still needs and there's still time.
56:13.853 --> 56:35.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And at times you still have to say, no, right now I need 20 minutes to look at my whatever show you're watching or whatever thing comes you down or makes you send or breathing or ground outside or hug a tree because that's what I do.
56:36.948 --> 56:57.936
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, just doing that without feeling like you're not putting your kids first, which we, I mean, at least as my culture Latinos are like, you know, you kids come first, you sacrifice for them, you do everything for them, you come later and you sacrifice for your husband for everybody.
56:58.776 --> 57:00.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Mom's elast.
57:00.137 --> 57:00.737
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
57:00.817 --> 57:15.807
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just being able to prioritize you without feeling as a mother, without feeling like, you know, guilt or shame or any of that.
57:21.022 --> 57:23.082
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you guys deal with this?
57:23.883 --> 57:31.004
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the first thing is to kind of acknowledge that you may feel guilty, and that may be okay, right?
57:31.024 --> 57:41.526
[SPEAKER_02]: That there are some times, I think Jamie and Lucy both mentioned this therapist that we had kind of worked all worked with in different capacities, Taylor.
57:42.386 --> 57:43.947
[SPEAKER_02]: And she talks about that guilt.
57:44.387 --> 57:45.687
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this analogy she uses.
57:45.987 --> 57:48.448
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the guilt is kind of like a neighbor like knocking at the door.
57:48.608 --> 57:49.968
[SPEAKER_02]: And if the neighbor at knocking at the door
57:50.668 --> 57:53.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you know, your dog got out of your fence, you need to go repair your fence.
57:54.071 --> 57:55.592
[SPEAKER_02]: The guilt is the service.
57:55.652 --> 57:56.813
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's serving you, right?
57:56.853 --> 57:58.534
[SPEAKER_02]: It's helping you to go repair the fence.
57:59.195 --> 58:03.818
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it comes, if it comes knocking in it, it accused you of something that you didn't do.
58:03.898 --> 58:06.521
[SPEAKER_02]: If I go my first, whatever the, you know, the dog came out of them all.
58:07.201 --> 58:10.543
[SPEAKER_02]: But in a way that you're like, yeah, actually, there's something I need to feel guilty about.
58:10.563 --> 58:13.705
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something I need to do here, that you can kind of let it go.
58:13.745 --> 58:14.686
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not serving you.
58:14.786 --> 58:17.627
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think sometimes guilt can be helpful.
58:17.687 --> 58:24.491
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it can say, like, hey, every, you know, you're not spending enough time doing X-Y-R-C, or you're not focused on this thing.
58:24.551 --> 58:33.297
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, if I was feeling a lot myself, feel guilty about being late today, I could really get trapped in it, but I could also say, like, hey, maybe I could have tested on my equipment.
58:34.117 --> 58:37.798
[SPEAKER_02]: a couple hours ago, made sure it wasn't going to be such a sound problem.
58:38.058 --> 58:41.779
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that there's sometimes you can learn from it and say, okay, I'm like, that's helpful to know.
58:42.319 --> 58:53.261
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you've got to leave it and say, but if I was continuing right now to apologize and go on and on and on about my sound issue, that would ruin this whole experience that we're having together.
58:53.301 --> 58:59.102
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think sometimes it's helpful to kind of acknowledge the guilt and say, like, hey, are you trying to tell me something?
58:59.142 --> 59:01.202
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there something I can learn from or going from
59:04.964 --> 59:06.946
[SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes it's just they're making you feel bad.
59:07.427 --> 59:15.316
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's apparent when you know like you did, that's a beautiful example of you knew I have to take a break.
59:15.336 --> 59:17.017
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not being my best self.
59:17.098 --> 59:18.759
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even being myself.
59:19.500 --> 59:29.108
[SPEAKER_02]: I must take a break and my goodness that happens with infants and it sure happens with teenagers that you're like, I know I'm not being who I want to be in this interaction.
59:29.468 --> 59:30.849
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I must take a break.
59:30.969 --> 59:32.110
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to take a break.
59:32.710 --> 59:43.499
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, I mean, ideally we can have some space to take care of ourselves before it gets to that point, but absolutely there are times and it's like that you may feel guilty, but also like this was the right choice.
59:44.560 --> 59:49.578
[SPEAKER_02]: And only you kind of know what that is, but yeah, so to say.
59:50.812 --> 59:55.335
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think along those lines, I think, especially looking back when my kids were in terms, right?
59:56.155 --> 01:00:09.664
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I would only allow myself to break, like the threshold was so high, like only when I got really bad, or I could only if I was working, like doing, like it wasn't okay for me to like get help, so I could go and like read a book, or like get my nails done.
01:00:09.684 --> 01:00:16.328
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it had to be something really, really important, or you had to be at the breaking point in risk of like injuring my kid, and then it's okay to take a break.
01:00:16.708 --> 01:00:17.429
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think like,
01:00:17.829 --> 01:00:35.383
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely we do want to prioritize ourselves in those moments, but I think sometimes that gets us caught in the guilt that it has to be really bad for us to like put ourselves first and almost like how do we move that back and I think for a lot of women maybe that space before then is like the harder space like I don't have to
01:00:35.983 --> 01:00:41.970
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm not going to fall apart if I don't, but gosh, it would be really nice and like am I allowed to do it there, right?
01:00:41.990 --> 01:00:49.078
[SPEAKER_04]: And so that permission for, um, you know, getting support putting yourself first, I think can be really helpful.
01:00:49.098 --> 01:00:51.781
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the other thing with teenagers too, I, I think
01:00:52.462 --> 01:00:54.684
[SPEAKER_04]: this concept of like seasons of life, does that make sense?
01:00:54.704 --> 01:01:00.411
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, they're times that my husband are like, okay, we've surely like, like, probably good to like plan a date night and have that.
01:01:00.791 --> 01:01:09.460
[SPEAKER_04]: But we kind of like make the choice right now to like hang out at home more on the weekends simply because like we have these kids, I'm really aware right now of the time in terms of like, they're leaving home.
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:13.084
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I've got one who's gonna be senior, one who's got just a few years left and like,
01:01:13.745 --> 01:01:28.192
[SPEAKER_04]: I think right now our priority is to, like, how do we soak up every minute, like, being available around for them, like, knowing that there's this season coming really quickly when, like, actually, I won't really have to prioritize them or that won't be an option even if I really wanted to.
01:01:28.212 --> 01:01:31.474
[SPEAKER_04]: So that kind of a helpful mindset too.
01:01:31.514 --> 01:01:37.177
[SPEAKER_04]: And, and I don't think we're doing it from a place that, like, oh, we really wish we were doing something else and we feel like resentful around us.
01:01:37.197 --> 01:01:40.819
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's good to, like, tap into, but kind of keeping that in mind.
01:01:43.043 --> 01:01:43.524
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:01:43.564 --> 01:01:48.957
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a temperature check, yeah, yeah, yeah, agree.
01:01:49.057 --> 01:01:50.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think too, like,
01:01:52.658 --> 01:02:21.610
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to model for my kids how important it is to really pay attention to what you're wanting and needing and you know realistically like I can't be available to them 24 seven like that's just not the case and I don't want to consistently put my needs last I don't want to teach my children like that that's what they're entitled to.
01:02:22.050 --> 01:02:48.571
[SPEAKER_01]: you know that they should expect that from other individuals like that that I come first all the time and that my kids don't you know they don't they don't they don't think that and they see like the benefits of doing things for yourself like prioritizing so like every year I go to Disney with my sister like in February and they know like that's the week that is for me and for my sister
01:02:50.713 --> 01:03:11.698
[SPEAKER_01]: to like fill our cup with something that we love and I know that when I come back you know that I can be even more engaged and and tune with what's going on with them and I you know it encouraged them to kind of like do the same thing like
01:03:12.078 --> 01:03:20.542
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't, you know, I love being around them, but I know that like right now, their time with friends is like really extremely, you know, important.
01:03:21.002 --> 01:03:23.624
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to have that as well.
01:03:23.704 --> 01:03:33.288
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I think just modeling for them, like, not spreading myself so thin and putting everybody else first.
01:03:33.729 --> 01:03:35.049
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a service to me.
01:03:35.149 --> 01:03:37.030
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a service to anybody else.
01:03:37.470 --> 01:03:38.771
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to see that.
01:03:43.287 --> 01:04:02.126
[SPEAKER_03]: So as we're wrapping up the episode and sometimes we're people are hearing this for maybe the first time, some people are hearing this as a reminder, all right, I have to remind myself to fill my cup first.
01:04:03.968 --> 01:04:08.071
[SPEAKER_03]: regardless of what stage the listener is at.
01:04:09.112 --> 01:04:14.897
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like a takeaway of like a baby step, right?
01:04:14.937 --> 01:04:26.586
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a small manageable thing that anyone can do right now would be a nice takeaway,
01:04:33.591 --> 01:04:38.153
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of actionable first step to take.
01:04:38.333 --> 01:04:38.634
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:04:39.454 --> 01:04:50.079
[SPEAKER_03]: If I start today and if I haven't and if I've been last on my to-do list, what would be a good starting point?
01:04:52.100 --> 01:04:54.061
[SPEAKER_04]: I think often it's even like just
01:04:56.811 --> 01:04:58.292
[SPEAKER_04]: what would I even want?
01:04:58.572 --> 01:04:58.792
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:04:58.812 --> 01:05:15.580
[SPEAKER_04]: So for those of us who are really oriented towards prioritizing everyone else, sometimes in that process, we abandon ourselves and become disconnected from ourselves and we have shoved down our own wants and needs for so long that before we even take a step or take action, we have to like start by tuning in a day like, oh,
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:20.043
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if I were to prioritize myself or take care of myself like well, what does that look like?
01:05:20.083 --> 01:05:20.964
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what do I want?
01:05:20.984 --> 01:05:21.764
[SPEAKER_04]: What do I need?
01:05:21.784 --> 01:05:22.865
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what am I missing?
01:05:23.305 --> 01:05:24.406
[SPEAKER_04]: What would bring me joy?
01:05:24.526 --> 01:05:32.211
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to like start with that curiosity of like tuning and word to even start to put to know like what direction to move.
01:05:33.192 --> 01:05:34.713
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be my suggestion.
01:05:35.033 --> 01:05:35.653
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:05:35.854 --> 01:05:36.754
[SPEAKER_04]: Be curious.
01:05:41.635 --> 01:06:04.269
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other starting points I think one would be to give yourself space kind of to do what we see so but like especially when you're asked, but on the spot like will you do this and to give yourself we even offer like some space saving like free phrases up let me check my calendar and get back to you let me think on that and get back to you just to not to try to like break that pattern of like someone asks yes.
01:06:04.869 --> 01:06:16.552
[SPEAKER_02]: to just give yourself a second, ideally to tune in, take a breath and really see how if it feels right for you, but even just to look at your calendar and see, like, okay, this is going to, what is this going to require of me?
01:06:16.752 --> 01:06:18.213
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I a yes or am I a no?
01:06:18.773 --> 01:06:25.755
[SPEAKER_02]: And really giving yourself that space to make that decision more intentionally versus just like automatically.
01:06:28.049 --> 01:06:31.590
[SPEAKER_01]: One of our permissions looks that we talk about is permission to hit the easy button.
01:06:32.450 --> 01:06:38.291
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that can be really helpful, especially just everybody so busy these days.
01:06:38.711 --> 01:06:46.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is something that you don't have to think about necessarily, how can I make this as easy as possible?
01:06:46.392 --> 01:06:48.833
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you were saying, you have your uniform for work, right?
01:06:49.253 --> 01:06:55.314
[SPEAKER_01]: That means you take the blazer and you take the shirt out and that's what you do and that's the easy option.
01:06:55.574 --> 01:07:12.757
[SPEAKER_01]: you know for you or for us it may be like tonight okay we're going to have breakfast food because that's what we have in the fridge and I don't have all day to like fix dinner and we may be even needing it on paper plates you know so it's again like what's the easiest thing that we can do how can we make it easy
01:07:13.558 --> 01:07:14.338
[SPEAKER_00]: Simplify.
01:07:14.358 --> 01:07:14.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:07:14.558 --> 01:07:15.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Mission to simplify.
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:16.679
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally.
01:07:16.739 --> 01:07:18.479
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm jealous.
01:07:18.519 --> 01:07:20.400
[SPEAKER_03]: I've walked breakfast food for dinner.
01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:20.940
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
01:07:20.980 --> 01:07:21.980
[SPEAKER_03]: It's my favorite.
01:07:22.741 --> 01:07:24.941
[SPEAKER_03]: And paper plates is like, okay.
01:07:25.201 --> 01:07:27.142
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's make it even easier, right?
01:07:27.322 --> 01:07:27.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:07:29.463 --> 01:07:30.083
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing.
01:07:31.443 --> 01:07:35.364
[SPEAKER_03]: So where can people get in touch with you?
01:07:35.984 --> 01:07:37.245
[SPEAKER_03]: What would be the best way?
01:07:38.405 --> 01:07:57.930
[SPEAKER_02]: You can contact us through our web site, which is badassverbalian.com, and it's just like it sounds like the ADASS Rebellion.com, and there's, you can, you can sign up for different, like permissions slips there, et cetera, but you can also get on, get our email through that and contact us through that.
01:08:00.330 --> 01:08:00.771
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfect.
01:08:00.831 --> 01:08:01.351
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
01:08:04.587 --> 01:08:05.988
[SPEAKER_03]: We did not play in that.
01:08:06.488 --> 01:08:07.849
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm amazing, okay.
01:08:08.789 --> 01:08:13.412
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for sitting with us, for chatting with us.
01:08:13.712 --> 01:08:19.195
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really glad we were able to have this conversation and hopefully it's a first.
01:08:19.836 --> 01:08:21.036
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel bad to have you back?
01:08:21.056 --> 01:08:22.377
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like I'm bad.
01:08:22.397 --> 01:08:23.178
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm bad.
01:08:23.278 --> 01:08:24.378
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, come on.
01:08:25.799 --> 01:08:28.401
[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
01:08:28.421 --> 01:08:31.763
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be back next week with your permission.
01:08:40.468 --> 01:08:42.872
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is all we have for you this week.
01:08:43.713 --> 01:08:46.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you follow permission to podcast.
01:08:47.459 --> 01:08:51.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be back next week with your permission.
00:00.351 --> 00:09.514
[SPEAKER_02]: Self-care has kind of gotten a bit like I said commercialized so a lot of times you need products or to fame like to spend money in some way on a self-care product or item.
00:09.914 --> 00:19.798
[SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes self-care can kind of get like woven into like something to do with your appearance as well like self-care is a face mask or it's a facial I mean that that that can kind of get woven
00:20.418 --> 00:23.300
[SPEAKER_02]: into these things that are very external, right?
00:23.880 --> 00:37.588
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the way that the how of you of self-care may change day to day, but to your point, I think the permanent part is that you are that it's coming from you and not coming from outside.
00:47.755 --> 00:50.417
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Permission the podcast.
00:50.897 --> 00:59.201
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. T and this is my sister, you're on that and we are two regular people talking about spirituality in our daily lives.
00:59.702 --> 01:03.464
[SPEAKER_00]: Each week we're inviting you to the internal conversation.
01:03.684 --> 01:07.186
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's get started with your permission.
01:09.167 --> 01:10.207
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're back.
01:10.668 --> 01:12.529
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to Permission the podcast.
01:14.043 --> 01:23.891
[SPEAKER_03]: So today, we have the pleasure of speaking with badass rebellion, which I've been excited about for quite some time.
01:23.911 --> 01:26.053
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been excited about the name.
01:29.895 --> 01:45.645
[SPEAKER_03]: And how this happened, it was in, I believe it was back in January when I was going through the process of doing my own book launch that I received a notification email from Pezie that was kind of promoting their book.
01:57.460 --> 02:01.463
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know symbiotic or something synchronicistic.
02:02.063 --> 02:08.508
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was encouraged to reach out and Yadiyada Yada, we're here.
02:11.390 --> 02:19.015
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I feel like it would be best for introductions to be done by the people themselves.
02:19.295 --> 02:24.999
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll give you the platform whoever wants to jump in first, go for it.
02:28.355 --> 02:39.667
[SPEAKER_02]: On the first, my name is Avery Honig and I'm a psychologist in Dallas, so I'll be hearing a lot of the same details from Lucy and Jamie, we all three are psychologists in Dallas and we're in private practice.
02:40.048 --> 02:42.410
[SPEAKER_02]: We have been to office together as well, which is amazing.
02:43.131 --> 02:47.296
[SPEAKER_02]: And we really started this badass rebellion.
02:47.396 --> 02:50.439
[SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of after we had done our own podcast for a bit.
02:50.919 --> 02:58.381
[SPEAKER_02]: But our broadcast is called Inspiration from the couch, which came from really feeling very isolated during the pandemic.
02:58.421 --> 03:06.983
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure anyone that was in private practice or having to work from home shared in that feeling of just like, you're kind of talking to people all day, but also like not really connecting.
03:07.623 --> 03:09.924
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was really nice to do something collaborative.
03:10.384 --> 03:18.285
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's when we decided, right in the midst of the pandemic, because when we decided to a podcast, and then I'll let Lucy and Jamie talk more about kind of how we went from
03:24.529 --> 03:25.349
[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to go Lucy?
03:26.070 --> 03:26.870
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
03:28.131 --> 03:34.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we started the podcast and we did that for a little while, like almost two years.
03:35.096 --> 03:35.957
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds great to me.
03:36.197 --> 03:36.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:40.133 --> 03:41.474
[SPEAKER_01]: How did we get to the book?
03:41.694 --> 04:01.866
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we were, after, like, we were having a really good time with the podcast and noticed, you know, like, we say the same things to a lot of our clients, a lot of our clients are our female and I think for the three of us sort of being in midlife had a big interest in that particular population of women and
04:02.926 --> 04:05.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so decided we wanted to write a book.
04:05.247 --> 04:09.408
[SPEAKER_01]: And initially, it was a little bit more midlife focused.
04:09.488 --> 04:15.890
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we went to the Secretary of Therapy Networker conference, which is held in DC every year.
04:15.990 --> 04:19.171
[SPEAKER_01]: And Pessie is a sponsor there.
04:19.191 --> 04:22.612
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and we were out and about.
04:22.812 --> 04:26.733
[SPEAKER_01]: And I pitched an idea to one publisher and they really, really liked it.
04:27.333 --> 04:34.416
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that kind of took us off from there and we went through that process for a little bit.
04:34.977 --> 04:40.859
[SPEAKER_01]: But they were for about a year because it wasn't until the following year when we went back to the conference.
04:41.599 --> 04:45.761
[SPEAKER_01]: And met up with Kate.
04:46.081 --> 04:50.904
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a acquisitions editor for Pussy Rich City Books at the time.
04:51.144 --> 04:51.584
[SPEAKER_01]: And so.
04:52.124 --> 05:06.953
[SPEAKER_01]: met with her and a very briefly pitched the idea and then it was like kind of frantic basically over the course of just a few days we switched to bridge city books as a publisher and then has I been a year and a half since then or longer?
05:07.193 --> 05:12.476
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean over two years, I don't know time flies, right?
05:12.596 --> 05:18.479
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going through that and then we're able to narrow in on on self abandonment
05:20.820 --> 05:25.081
[SPEAKER_01]: Lucy, you can talk about that maybe how we switched over to, or whatever you want to talk about.
05:25.341 --> 05:26.902
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to dictate what you want to talk about.
05:28.502 --> 05:34.143
[SPEAKER_04]: So I am Lucy Smith, and to me like every stage you know, we're all psychologists for all in private practice.
05:34.323 --> 05:40.165
[SPEAKER_04]: And we all have kind of slightly different specialty areas in our private practice, but this joint endeavor.
05:42.225 --> 05:46.908
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it was born out of a little bit of loneliness and isolation.
05:46.928 --> 05:59.037
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm partly due to the pandemic, but I know for me it was also a private practice I've loved and been so grateful for my private practice, but realizing, you know, we're going to talk about prioritizing yourself today, but that private practice can like take over.
05:59.057 --> 06:02.559
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think anyone taught us this in graduate school that it can be really, really exhausting.
06:02.579 --> 06:07.463
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think of it like you had this really small muscle of like empathy and compassion and listening.
06:09.264 --> 06:23.017
[SPEAKER_04]: No one really told me that I should have like a lot of women's around my private practice that I remember coming home and just being like exhausted and depleted and like I don't even want to like listen to my kids like to read them a bedtime story talk to them like I'm just out like my friendships are not great.
06:23.718 --> 06:25.539
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think finally like we kind of realize like.
06:26.180 --> 06:28.802
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how sustainable this is, and I think we need something else.
06:28.822 --> 06:41.209
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm realizing that there are these other parts of my brain, and I really miss using the parts that we're collaborating with people, doing something a little more creative, where you could talk to people about what you were doing rather than it all being confidential.
06:41.689 --> 06:50.254
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think that this bad astrobellium was born out of this desire to do something a little different, something that could still be, um,
06:51.395 --> 07:00.405
[SPEAKER_04]: Like more than like a hobby, I guess, like something that could be potentially income generating that could like make a difference in the world that could that but use these different parts of our brain.
07:00.825 --> 07:11.017
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it has been you know quite a joy to I don't know and it's it's been a little little windy to me so like sometimes we we started by doing more like
07:12.134 --> 07:34.510
[SPEAKER_04]: speaking and like a little bit of like coaching sorts of things and then like somehow this idea of a book which had always been on our each of our think individual bucket list but like okay how do we like we work really well together that was nice about starting with the podcast to see like oh we get a long well we have similar styles of like work like this could be nice and then writing the book together made it much less daunting to do it as a collaborative endeavor.
07:36.230 --> 07:36.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Lucy's right.
07:36.871 --> 07:42.795
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was both that endemic isolation, but also this feeling I remember because we were very busy during the pandemic.
07:42.815 --> 07:48.860
[SPEAKER_02]: There was, you know, no, no one for patients, but you're in a mental health crisis as everybody really knows.
07:48.900 --> 07:54.165
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I remember feeling that on one hand, I knew that I could not see any more patients.
07:54.205 --> 07:55.486
[SPEAKER_02]: I was not going to be able to offer.
07:56.006 --> 08:02.054
[SPEAKER_02]: good care to patients or good care to myself, if I saw more patients, but I still had a capacity to do more work.
08:02.495 --> 08:12.148
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this idea of like I want to I could do more, but I can't do more of this one on one patient individual patient work because it was.
08:12.468 --> 08:15.449
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was just, it was, I was at a kind of at my limit there.
08:15.509 --> 08:18.510
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this idea of like, what else could we do?
08:18.710 --> 08:21.350
[SPEAKER_02]: And the podcast was the first kind of iteration of that.
08:21.370 --> 08:27.072
[SPEAKER_02]: And as Lucy said, we, this was speaking engagement things like that, the book, and it has been kind of a circuitous route.
08:27.092 --> 08:29.612
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that we are, I don't know where we are on that route.
08:29.652 --> 08:34.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, middle, I don't know, but like, but it's been, it's been really fun to be able to do together.
08:35.014 --> 08:39.995
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's been something for me that has been that collaboration is something that is missing.
08:40.651 --> 08:44.835
[SPEAKER_02]: I think for a lot of people in private practice for me for sure, and it's been so nice to be able to do that.
08:46.376 --> 08:58.467
[SPEAKER_04]: And really kind of, you know, to segue into the topic for today, prioritize yourself, trying to like a radical act of prioritizing ourselves around, like being tuned in around like, okay, we are like, topped out with this one sort of work.
08:58.527 --> 09:00.089
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so like, what do we need to do?
09:00.189 --> 09:01.390
[SPEAKER_04]: How do we need to adjust?
09:01.790 --> 09:04.251
[SPEAKER_04]: And really, like, that's been the screw lines through all of this.
09:04.311 --> 09:07.092
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, we'll sit down on conversation with, okay, how are we feeling about this?
09:08.012 --> 09:09.073
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what can we get rid of?
09:09.133 --> 09:10.673
[SPEAKER_04]: What do we want to take away?
09:10.713 --> 09:13.955
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, how do we reevaluate our priorities?
09:14.055 --> 09:16.516
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, to really make space for what matters?
09:16.536 --> 09:18.216
[SPEAKER_04]: And what's going to light us up?
09:18.236 --> 09:19.657
[SPEAKER_04]: And what we need to do.
09:22.437 --> 09:23.758
[SPEAKER_03]: That is so fascinating.
09:23.818 --> 09:45.377
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in a stage right now where I feel that kind of pull to do more and part of that is have more impact and I'm wondering if that was also driving or motivating the podcast and the book for the three of you because for me it's it's more of that of.
09:46.037 --> 09:57.490
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to keep the one-on-one for as long as I can sustain it, but at the same time, I want to be able to provide more on a bigger scale.
09:57.950 --> 09:59.452
[SPEAKER_03]: Did that also come into play?
10:00.895 --> 10:18.298
[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely and I think actually that is really what that idea is really what started the podcast is that we were talking kind of over lunch and we were realizing we were at the time we were seeing everybody virtually during the pandemic like and we were realizing we were saying the same things to a lot of people.
10:18.618 --> 10:24.262
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, wasn't what it'd be diced if we could just say these things on a platform that may be everybody could.
10:24.282 --> 10:27.485
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of the things we were saying were very unique and specific to the client.
10:27.505 --> 10:31.648
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of them were like very generally helpful to the general population.
10:31.668 --> 10:34.110
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like, what'd it be great if we could get some of these?
10:34.130 --> 10:36.512
[SPEAKER_02]: We almost even thought like sometimes like middle health first aid.
10:36.592 --> 10:36.792
[SPEAKER_02]: Like,
10:37.092 --> 10:58.594
[SPEAKER_02]: These things that you can do as a general population that could be helpful, especially in that moment when we were all kind of struggling with some of the similar, you know, some of the similar, similar issues, but absolutely that was part of like, how can we get this message that each of us were kind of, you know, resonating with lots of people within our private practices, we're like this feels like it could be more globally.
11:00.096 --> 11:01.016
[SPEAKER_02]: globally resonate.
11:01.677 --> 11:12.586
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe that's also something that the podcast doesn't come up with a self-abandement is that we, you know, there are a book about self-abandement, that is something that seems to be more of a global, globally resonate with women as well.
11:13.265 --> 11:14.026
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
11:14.426 --> 11:15.206
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an artist.
11:15.266 --> 11:36.981
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a psychologist and I do a whole bunch of other stuff, but I feel the same when you guys are talking about the same passion I have when I created it, I have a circle of women and just to have the impact of community and growth and and it just see the effects rippling.
11:37.942 --> 11:39.423
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I get that.
11:40.911 --> 11:50.198
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I love that you build a community and talk about community and I think that's something that we have wrestled with in some former fashion.
11:50.338 --> 12:05.191
[SPEAKER_04]: All of us have our private practices or our individual therapy, right, and that's like the modality in which we work, but I think feeling in our own lives, the power of like community and groups and like the power of more than one in terms of really
12:05.911 --> 12:10.293
[SPEAKER_04]: healing and transforming, which you've probably seen in your artistic community circle as well.
12:10.353 --> 12:21.379
[SPEAKER_04]: I imagine, and so almost this question of, like, I were doing this individual work, but there's such power and transformation in this, like, community piece of, like, how do we, what do we do with that, right?
12:21.439 --> 12:27.882
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, is there a way to, like, extend this and build more community, especially, like, at a time when I think people are, by and large pretty lonely.
12:27.982 --> 12:34.305
[SPEAKER_04]: I think many of us have a lot of, like, connections in some ways, but there's a lot of loneliness and disconnection amidst that.
12:36.350 --> 12:43.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, my women circle, it's more a spiritual spin to it.
12:43.452 --> 12:59.355
[SPEAKER_00]: I do introduce art as a healing tool as well, but we do work on themes like boundaries, themes that prioritize in yourself, choosing you, and all different themes are healing your inner child.
12:59.415 --> 13:03.356
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of the women have after the circle,
13:06.717 --> 13:21.848
[SPEAKER_00]: for a couple of hours and a lot of them tell me this is like therapy and it's just like while women gather together when they heal together it's so powerful.
13:21.948 --> 13:29.533
[SPEAKER_00]: So great and I also do rituals we go to the beach to see the moon rise we, you know, right in tensions,
13:36.057 --> 13:48.365
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just amazing to see the power, the power we have, the power to support, the power to build, you know, and I see that you guys are doing that as well.
13:48.605 --> 14:00.833
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys use permission slip as, you know, um, you self-remissions lifts and people write their stuff and I want to know.
14:04.797 --> 14:10.847
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the biggest permission you've given yourself to prioritize yourself?
14:14.673 --> 14:15.394
[SPEAKER_02]: Great question.
14:15.574 --> 14:17.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Or did you need it from somebody else?
14:19.248 --> 14:25.553
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we think one of the biggest permissions for us that I've used.
14:27.034 --> 14:36.742
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I think about before we started this work together and now after I think is to really, truly listen to my own intuition.
14:37.783 --> 14:43.668
[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy is really, I think really one of those one of the people that brought that to me and NGme both.
14:44.168 --> 14:48.551
[SPEAKER_02]: about really getting quite a wish you guys could have seen at the very beginning of our work together.
14:49.011 --> 14:51.692
[SPEAKER_02]: We would like pose a question and Lisa would say, hang on.
14:51.712 --> 14:56.435
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to shoot like put her hands on her heart or her belly or kind of like on her legs and like take your breath.
14:56.455 --> 14:57.816
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I think it's this.
14:58.196 --> 15:00.477
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was so beautiful to watch that.
15:00.557 --> 15:04.099
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, and it's gotten to the point now I'm so close with Jamie and Lisa.
15:04.179 --> 15:05.220
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I joke, but it's true.
15:05.240 --> 15:07.902
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'll listen to my intuition or either of yours.
15:08.042 --> 15:10.083
[SPEAKER_02]: And nobody's really as dear to strong.
15:10.623 --> 15:17.007
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, but that idea, and it really was a good model for me, of like pausing and really listening.
15:17.067 --> 15:22.651
[SPEAKER_02]: To even think something is small, sometimes loosely, would do that of like, um, like, you know, are we hungry or are we ready for lunch?
15:22.711 --> 15:24.392
[SPEAKER_02]: We should we go take a break and go for a walk?
15:24.412 --> 15:27.073
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it would be little things and then really big things.
15:27.113 --> 15:28.794
[SPEAKER_02]: Like are we ready to go at a different direction?
15:28.835 --> 15:30.355
[SPEAKER_02]: Or does this feel bright?
15:30.436 --> 15:32.337
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think, I think I,
15:32.897 --> 15:55.862
[SPEAKER_02]: I was always such a people-pleaser that it was really helpful for me to see another person do that, like to model it for me, because it was really, I'm so much more comfortable looking kind of scanning the room, kind of seeing what's the general opinion before I listen to myself, but having that model of Lucy really listening to herself and focusing on that was like,
15:59.303 --> 16:00.904
[SPEAKER_02]: And I gave me permission to listen.
16:01.004 --> 16:05.427
[SPEAKER_02]: It was really, that was, I think, the biggest thing that I carry with me now.
16:05.667 --> 16:06.568
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
16:06.748 --> 16:07.468
[SPEAKER_00]: What a gift.
16:07.808 --> 16:09.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
16:10.690 --> 16:12.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy and Jim here are a gift for sure.
16:12.251 --> 16:13.292
[SPEAKER_02]: They both are for sure.
16:16.397 --> 16:20.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, probably one of the biggest permissions slips this permission to change your mind.
16:21.924 --> 16:32.579
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I am not as much of a people pleaser, but when I commit to something, I will sort of, like, fall prey, I think to, like,
16:33.079 --> 16:53.216
[SPEAKER_01]: some cost bias of like once I'm in, like if I, you know, I got to keep going like if I've committed to something and like see it through even though I may be like really, you know, tired or exhausted or burnt out or whatever, like, you know, you just keep kind of like plugging along and that used to be kind of my
16:53.696 --> 17:02.044
[SPEAKER_01]: my tendency for a long time because, I mean, I like to be known as, you know, the dependable responsible committed kind of individual.
17:03.685 --> 17:07.629
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, I think after, I think like the
17:09.250 --> 17:10.992
[SPEAKER_01]: the pandemic era.
17:11.913 --> 17:25.849
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a fairly bad case of burnout because I was seeing clients, I was also supervising individuals in my private practice and I was adjunct faculty,
17:26.349 --> 17:36.856
[SPEAKER_01]: at one of the universities here in the Dallas area and was teaching a couple of classes there and large part of that also was supervision.
17:36.997 --> 17:39.398
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just a lot everywhere.
17:39.698 --> 17:44.061
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the film, everywhere, everything everywhere all at once or whatever.
17:44.101 --> 17:48.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Like whatever that film is, like that's what it felt like for me, like everywhere everything.
17:48.404 --> 17:50.226
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just like,
17:52.527 --> 18:06.381
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and there was kind of this expectation like that I'm going to continue on that I'm going to continue to supervise that I've been a continue to teach and all of that and so I ended up deciding like you know what I really need to go to therapy again.
18:13.467 --> 18:39.882
[SPEAKER_01]: And did a year-long leadership training and Lucy introduced her sort of turn me on to her stuff and I did a year-long leadership training and in order to do that you have to pull back on other things in my life and ended up doing therapy with Taylor and you know like the questions that she would pose to me really were like kind of
18:40.502 --> 19:08.170
[SPEAKER_01]: challenging and getting me to tune and work like every was saying was was really important and and giving me that permission to change my mind you know even if say I had committed for semester you know or said like okay y'all teach in the summer like I decided like you know what I need to like really evaluate things and I'm gonna you know turn this opportunity down I can't do it I can't do it anymore which was was very helpful yeah
19:08.370 --> 19:11.532
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember Jamie in the midst of that like at that the busiest you were at.
19:11.552 --> 19:14.213
[SPEAKER_04]: So Jamie is like a Disney super fan.
19:14.313 --> 19:19.375
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like like the like most Disney person you could ever see loves it goes off and like knows all the ins and outs.
19:19.695 --> 19:33.402
[SPEAKER_04]: But you'd apply to be on like the Disney like this this panel of like us expert but it was like I was almost like a part-time job like I think it's but it requires I remember you were so excited about it but also kind of like not really sure like if I have time for that.
19:33.422 --> 19:34.382
[SPEAKER_04]: So thankfully the universe
19:38.204 --> 19:52.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, and I had like one through the application process and made it like fairly far, you know, and then it was like, I was talking to my best friend Sarah, who's this ecologist in Virginia one day and she's like, so tell me again, how many hours does this require?
19:52.596 --> 20:00.763
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I don't know, like 15, 20 and she's like, okay, now tell me all of the other things that you do and I'm like, okay, shut up, shut up, shut up.
20:01.203 --> 20:12.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and sometimes like if I overspaddle myself like Sarah is a good touchstone and my my little younger sister Hillary is a really good touch tone Touchstone for me too like I'll say like okay.
20:12.607 --> 20:12.727
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:12.747 --> 20:13.887
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm seeing clients today.
20:14.208 --> 20:14.828
[SPEAKER_01]: I started eight.
20:14.888 --> 20:15.968
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't until seven.
20:16.428 --> 20:20.250
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if I have a lunch and there, you know, and my sister will just text back.
20:20.290 --> 20:21.150
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you hate yourself?
20:21.590 --> 20:22.610
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I know.
20:23.071 --> 20:23.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in.
20:25.166 --> 20:31.153
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's hilarious, they're right, so she's dressed with me.
20:31.473 --> 20:40.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Not with other people, I'm usually like the more direct one, but you guys know y'all are siblings, so you can, you've got that kind of like where you can just really like lay it out there.
20:40.904 --> 20:43.827
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, she'll take those friends there.
20:43.947 --> 20:44.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:44.327 --> 20:45.789
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll ground and say, hey,
20:46.249 --> 21:12.697
[SPEAKER_01]: what the heck are you doing absolutely yes absolutely so yes Sarah Sarah is very direct my friend in Virginia and my sister is very direct and then you know Lucy and Avery also too or like or or very direct as well in a very kind in loving way Okay because you brought it I have to know what is your favorite doesn't they film
21:13.960 --> 21:17.064
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, girl, like I have to know now.
21:17.084 --> 21:23.293
[SPEAKER_01]: Disney, already want like Pixar, do you want Disney, Disney, Star Wars, Star Wars, that's Marvel.
21:23.913 --> 21:28.660
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Star Wars and Marvel, and that's like the,
21:29.140 --> 21:32.541
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not original, that's the, but I do love Star Wars.
21:32.681 --> 21:34.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love Marvel.
21:34.601 --> 21:37.142
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big fan of the of Pixar films.
21:37.282 --> 21:40.843
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I psychologist, I love and side out, and then side out too.
21:41.463 --> 21:45.644
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have those plushy figurines all over my office.
21:45.664 --> 21:46.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I have all of them.
21:46.804 --> 21:47.744
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all in my office.
21:48.004 --> 21:50.445
[SPEAKER_01]: They probably don't, I don't know, maybe the only one in our office.
21:50.485 --> 21:54.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I have toys, I have like, Disney inspired toys and things in my office.
21:54.786 --> 21:55.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though I don't,
21:59.387 --> 22:01.269
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we only don't toys.
22:01.629 --> 22:02.509
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:02.870 --> 22:04.070
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not those, Lucy.
22:04.110 --> 22:04.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:05.191 --> 22:05.571
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, God.
22:05.591 --> 22:07.172
[SPEAKER_04]: You just should get to a different drink.
22:07.653 --> 22:10.335
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, totally different drink.
22:10.435 --> 22:12.136
[SPEAKER_03]: Different kinds of adult toys.
22:12.156 --> 22:12.576
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
22:14.777 --> 22:17.499
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I live and sit out and sit out too.
22:17.639 --> 22:43.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I sometimes I'm like, God, I wish I could have been a collaborator on those films because I think they just do such a great job of person I'm having emotions and how they work and sometimes I assign them as homework to clients that have never seen them or are having difficulty with trying to identify emotions and so sometimes that can be really really helpful for folks to look at it in a different way.
22:44.312 --> 22:45.692
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so fascinating.
22:45.793 --> 22:49.714
[SPEAKER_03]: I usually assign sleeping beauty and beauty in the beast.
22:53.034 --> 22:53.795
[SPEAKER_04]: Why those two?
22:54.255 --> 23:08.018
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for the, the, the journey, the masculine takes to kind of integrate their feminine and, and the journey, the, the feminine takes to integrate their masculine,
23:14.461 --> 23:16.523
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes out and search of her father.
23:16.543 --> 23:25.555
[SPEAKER_03]: And the idea of her having an internal masculine is repulsive, right?
23:26.095 --> 23:29.600
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's this big massive shadowy.
23:31.662 --> 23:45.800
[SPEAKER_03]: beast figure that she can either run away from or or kind of go toward and then awaken her internal masculine and then those those are usually the
23:47.462 --> 23:50.345
[SPEAKER_03]: Only once that I, oh, monsters ink too.
23:50.665 --> 24:05.880
[SPEAKER_03]: And the parallel with with anxiety, with that experience of like the monster universe is just being afraid of something that you don't really know and what's waiting behind the door, I think those are the ones that.
24:09.761 --> 24:11.762
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
24:11.902 --> 24:13.803
[SPEAKER_03]: Or I use them as metaphors, right?
24:13.963 --> 24:14.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
24:15.444 --> 24:17.525
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't actually have to see the film.
24:17.585 --> 24:23.327
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an idea of a film as like an archetypal thing because it's been our own society for so long.
24:24.088 --> 24:28.970
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to skip over Lucy because I would see her not answering the question.
24:31.151 --> 24:32.291
[SPEAKER_04]: pervitions, let's see.
24:32.311 --> 24:37.013
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so at the probably the biggest one, I think I've played with more recently as the pervition to rest.
24:38.233 --> 24:55.099
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think there's been like a fundamental, really big shift somehow in the past few years from doing to just being and allowing like a lot of spaciousness around getting out of that like hustle and grind mentality, and just allowing myself to do far less.
24:57.955 --> 25:00.136
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I need for whatever reason.
25:00.156 --> 25:08.558
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just in a phase right now where I need a lot more rest than maybe I would want and but that I just didn't like leaning into it and trying to trust.
25:09.698 --> 25:18.981
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's interesting that's like with you know being in midlife and a lot of this messaging around you know midlife and menopause and that you shouldn't like be strong and eat all your protein and live so much and.
25:19.541 --> 25:36.485
[SPEAKER_04]: And I work with eating disorders in my private practice, so I think all of that bothers me a little bit from the eating disorder, kind of diety, culture message that it feels like it's tied into that, but does I've really been thinking about, I think the other thing is like, or we ever allowed to just rest, like, why a purchasing age 50, do I need to be like the fittest and the strongest I've ever done?
25:36.525 --> 25:39.925
[SPEAKER_04]: Like am I ever allowed to have like a gradual decline?
25:39.945 --> 25:43.906
[SPEAKER_04]: Like could that be okay or does it always have to be like endlessly better and better?
25:43.966 --> 25:46.467
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think I just feel like exhausted by all of that.
25:47.487 --> 26:06.513
[SPEAKER_00]: So you are allowed to rest for so yeah, and to listen to your body That's awesome Teddy is all a rather confident you know you mentioned working hours training protein Yeah, check pro-kibble yet
26:12.436 --> 26:16.899
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I feel like the concept of self care has been changing.
26:16.919 --> 26:24.984
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, quick, before we go and you don't have permission to slip that you do, just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, which ones.
26:27.680 --> 26:47.041
[SPEAKER_03]: My biggest one is when I don't work out like when I give myself permission to not work out and and that includes my light dog and that I've introduced to my routine and.
26:48.562 --> 26:59.869
[SPEAKER_03]: part of that is because I sit, I mean obviously, I sit for work a lot and all of the activities that I do outside of work as well.
27:01.350 --> 27:10.076
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sitting right now doing this, I sit to write, I do quite a bit of writing on my own as well.
27:10.876 --> 27:16.400
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I find that a lot of the things that I do are very sedentary.
27:17.021 --> 27:25.647
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the same time, I try to get anywhere from six to 10 hours of working out a week.
27:26.368 --> 27:28.830
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I take that
27:31.998 --> 27:34.380
[SPEAKER_03]: to a week.
27:34.940 --> 27:46.709
[SPEAKER_03]: It's I'm trying to embrace how good it is for my body because I'm also seeing the gains in my weightlifting and all of the other things as well.
27:48.110 --> 27:49.031
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's one big
27:57.722 --> 27:58.502
[SPEAKER_00]: My turn.
27:58.583 --> 28:10.849
[SPEAKER_00]: So the biggest I think the biggest permission I've given myself this year has been to permission to be sexy, permission to be body-happy.
28:11.469 --> 28:16.532
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all my life, I looked at pictures of myself and been like, oh, in high school, I was so thin.
28:16.632 --> 28:18.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I never felt thin.
28:18.413 --> 28:21.095
[SPEAKER_00]: I never felt, you know what I mean?
28:21.135 --> 28:21.355
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
28:22.363 --> 28:23.644
[SPEAKER_00]: beautiful in that way.
28:23.704 --> 28:25.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I always wanted more.
28:25.164 --> 28:28.486
[SPEAKER_00]: I always was looking for the, oh, I need to look fit.
28:28.526 --> 28:29.646
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to be skinnier.
28:29.706 --> 28:33.048
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to be this because this is what the magazine is showing me.
28:33.908 --> 28:37.550
[SPEAKER_00]: But now I'm like, I'm loving my body, you know, like,
28:38.911 --> 28:54.983
[SPEAKER_00]: I do high yoga every day, and for Mother's Day, actually for Mother's Day last year, it was the first time I gave myself permission to just wear a sports bra and so why did a little roll sticks out?
28:56.164 --> 29:03.450
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave myself permission to do that for my 50th birthday, I gave myself permission to wear red.
29:07.453 --> 29:13.817
[SPEAKER_00]: it was sexy, it was too much, it was too provocative, you know, and I always felt uncomfortable with that color.
29:14.398 --> 29:17.760
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm like, I look fabulous, right?
29:18.560 --> 29:21.902
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've given myself those permissions to be
29:23.123 --> 29:31.747
[SPEAKER_00]: To enjoy every single curve for my body even when I smile the wrinkles around the eyes You know, he's smiling.
29:31.848 --> 29:48.056
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if you have wrinkles around you know, like just so I'm giving myself that Love and happiness, you know We have a cousin that's body happy and every time I see her post and everything and she's like oh my god
29:49.076 --> 29:50.237
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to learn from you.
29:50.257 --> 29:50.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:50.858 --> 29:55.602
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like she's so, she just welcomes every curve of her body.
29:56.543 --> 30:00.566
[SPEAKER_04]: And not like I've ever heard that phrase body happy, but I love that.
30:03.640 --> 30:28.405
[SPEAKER_00]: she is and so I'm I'm getting there I'm not there like my cousin I'm like but I'm like taking steps to free myself from all of this you know you have to cover your legs you have you know like I went to school you can show there it's all of these things and so I've always been like I'm coming up you know I'm showing too much and I'm like just it just
30:29.671 --> 30:31.372
[SPEAKER_00]: enjoy your body, enjoy your lives, be free in that way as well.
30:31.392 --> 30:32.092
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't help that work Catholic.
30:32.112 --> 30:44.857
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that
30:44.957 --> 31:07.289
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the whole guilt I'm like showing if you show if people look at you You're for you wearing sexy clothes, you know, if you get assaulted, it's your fault But were you wearing you shouldn't be wearing that so all of these things growing up with all of that was like, okay I don't need to make myself visible, you know, like I need to cover up any two and now I'm like
31:08.589 --> 31:13.471
[SPEAKER_00]: just enjoy enjoy your body every inch of it.
31:13.911 --> 31:15.212
[SPEAKER_03]: Stop tempting men.
31:17.173 --> 31:18.533
[SPEAKER_00]: You heard that, have you?
31:18.913 --> 31:22.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's gold.
31:22.795 --> 31:27.177
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, okay, so
31:29.310 --> 31:36.236
[SPEAKER_03]: self-care, self-care has been something that I feel like has been transforming, right?
31:36.296 --> 31:52.529
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like at some point it was, you know, taking baths or going to the spa, and I feel like there's a much more grounded version of it where it's taking care of yourself of
31:53.370 --> 32:10.548
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm going to tidy my home so that I can have a clear mind or I'm going to take care of myself through cooking and doing things for the self that are nurturing in a much deeper way.
32:12.010 --> 32:29.406
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's the sense of self-care as a temporary escapism of like, okay, well, I'm going to take care of myself by taking this vacation versus being able to prioritize the self in
32:30.547 --> 32:50.275
[SPEAKER_03]: a sort of permanent lifestyle sort of way and the distinction of that is it's a stark contrast is is there a way to kind of speak to that that difference and how you would go about doing
32:58.482 --> 33:20.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, and this, I think one thing we talked about together and in the book two is that I think one issue that I have or we have with self care right now is that sometimes it gets very commercialized and that self care can be oftentimes we we talk about like it doesn't need to be in other item on your to do less like I think that especially over scheduled.
33:21.424 --> 33:47.242
[SPEAKER_02]: like hustle culture over busy women especially kind of like have okay and I also got to do self care and I think somehow self care has kind of gotten a bit like I say commercialize so a lot of times you need products or debate but like to spend money in some way on a self care product or item I think sometimes self care can kind of get like woven into like something to do with your appearance as well like self care is a face mask or it's a facial I mean that that can kind
33:48.543 --> 33:50.685
[SPEAKER_02]: into these things that are very external.
33:51.125 --> 33:51.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
33:52.006 --> 34:05.737
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the way that the how of you of self-care may change day to day, but to your point, I think the permanent part is that you are that it's coming from you and not coming from outside.
34:05.777 --> 34:10.421
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I'm the only one that knows that if if my self-care today is to be
34:11.502 --> 34:16.948
[SPEAKER_02]: very active and clean up and do all of these different errands or if myself care today would be to rest.
34:17.188 --> 34:18.269
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the only one that knows that.
34:18.810 --> 34:26.898
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm getting like a, you know, thin, you know, self-care hacks from like some Instagram post, that could not be more external, right?
34:27.459 --> 34:27.999
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think
34:34.386 --> 34:37.127
[SPEAKER_02]: bidding is for it to come from inside.
34:37.267 --> 34:40.267
[SPEAKER_02]: And so made self care may look like going to get a facial.
34:40.287 --> 34:49.810
[SPEAKER_02]: That may absolutely that's I'm not judging that, but it certainly is not going to come from you scrolling and for our Googling, what do I need to do just to care for myself and then finding it there?
34:50.250 --> 34:53.310
[SPEAKER_02]: It needs to come from us, right?
34:53.810 --> 35:00.612
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's going on with like your own intuition, your own gut feeling, your own wisdom of, oh, this is what we need right now.
35:02.308 --> 35:04.129
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a allergic to scrolling.
35:04.169 --> 35:04.990
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I laughed.
35:05.811 --> 35:07.332
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't do it.
35:09.994 --> 35:22.103
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like to piggyback on what Avery is saying, I think the three of us have, I think, a practice that we do for self-care is asking ourselves, what do I want, what do I need?
35:24.225 --> 35:26.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, day to day throughout the day.
35:27.307 --> 35:35.854
[SPEAKER_01]: encourage our clients to do that because again, like what I've ever was saying, I mean, it has to come from inside because it made look very different from day to day, right?
35:35.914 --> 35:45.582
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I may not feel like working out for an hour today, like what what I usually do and maybe like what's going to feel good for me actually is to go and
35:46.182 --> 35:53.586
[SPEAKER_01]: and just do a little stroll around the neighborhood or sit outside or something that's going to be calming and peaceful.
35:53.606 --> 36:10.115
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we talk about numbing in the book and I think sometimes like that is a real sort of insidious thing that happens to everybody where it may feel like kind of like self-care like we're doing something but you rarely feel better after the fact.
36:10.615 --> 36:26.830
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like if I'm really intentional about watching a K drama that I'm totally into and I know that the episode comes out on Friday and I'm going to like intentionally sort of carve out time for that because I know that's for me and I want to do it.
36:27.711 --> 36:29.031
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect Crown Disney Plus.
36:29.131 --> 36:29.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Take a peek.
36:29.752 --> 36:30.432
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really good.
36:30.592 --> 36:31.352
[SPEAKER_01]: The last episode.
36:31.372 --> 36:32.032
[SPEAKER_01]: So stop tomorrow.
36:33.693 --> 36:44.936
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's for me versus you know how when you lay there and you're on Netflix and you're just looking at preview preview preview preview preview but you're not really into it.
36:44.996 --> 36:48.417
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just you feel kind of done and you don't really feel very good afterwards.
36:49.198 --> 36:56.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think like the intentionality around it is is really important, but starting with those like, what do I want?
36:56.768 --> 36:57.549
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I need?
36:58.810 --> 37:02.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, or good prompts to help folks clue in.
37:02.798 --> 37:03.699
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
37:03.959 --> 37:07.002
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done what you said the whole preview preview preview preview.
37:07.022 --> 37:08.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's called 30 minutes.
37:08.944 --> 37:12.067
[SPEAKER_00]: Looking at previous in a day and I don't want anything because I'm the entire.
37:12.227 --> 37:13.168
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:13.188 --> 37:13.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's awesome.
37:13.989 --> 37:14.549
[SPEAKER_01]: It's awesome.
37:14.649 --> 37:15.550
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so exciting.
37:15.870 --> 37:16.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Turn the TV off.
37:17.572 --> 37:18.753
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a TV anymore.
37:22.236 --> 37:31.487
[SPEAKER_04]: like connected to some of that I know one of the prompts even thinking about this podcast today was like, is there like a non-negotiable way you prioritize yourself each day?
37:31.507 --> 37:35.932
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think for years I might have had like, oh, I've, I've moved my body pretty much every day, right?
37:36.112 --> 37:39.817
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, whatever it may be, but I think as I've gone over time, like I actually don't have it.
37:40.117 --> 37:44.298
[SPEAKER_04]: The only thing that's non-negotiable is being able to tune in and see what I need to do.
37:44.779 --> 37:49.460
[SPEAKER_04]: Because if I have this script of things I need to check off, I need to follow that.
37:49.480 --> 37:53.081
[SPEAKER_04]: The came very disconnected and more like going through the motions.
37:53.121 --> 37:58.843
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't really tell me much about where I am in this one particular moment and what it is I need.
38:01.881 --> 38:03.862
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the flexibility around that.
38:04.422 --> 38:05.462
[SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.
38:05.482 --> 38:06.163
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
38:06.563 --> 38:19.387
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it's that flexibility that allows us to explore new areas of who we are but also what we need in the present moment.
38:20.928 --> 38:30.436
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like to trust in your intuition because your body is speaking to you, telling you what you need, like, now, stay in bed, woman.
38:31.196 --> 38:32.377
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the whole way.
38:33.418 --> 38:33.979
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
38:33.999 --> 38:36.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:37.001 --> 38:37.962
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all, absolutely.
38:40.142 --> 38:54.296
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, okay, so it was interesting when when I reviewed kind of the ear website, it mentioned how you guys were friends for over a decade.
38:55.858 --> 39:01.601
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm wondering, like, just kind of, what is the glue?
39:01.721 --> 39:14.569
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it, was it almost like the three of you were attracted to each other based on like a common ideology or was it just going through potentially the grind of school?
39:14.609 --> 39:17.351
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys want to school together or they're,
39:19.292 --> 39:26.021
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever sustained that relationship because it's beautiful to have a friendship that that lasts for so long.
39:26.101 --> 39:27.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Or motherhood, right?
39:27.243 --> 39:36.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you all you have teen kids and you have, I don't know, maybe you met a school at some point because I have friends that you meet that way, you know?
39:37.929 --> 39:40.391
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it was, none of us went to school together, right?
39:40.411 --> 39:46.158
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think actually where we all ended up like first being together was in like a weekly consultation group.
39:46.519 --> 39:50.243
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so when you come into primary practice right, it's kind of lonely, it's isolating.
39:50.283 --> 39:52.766
[SPEAKER_04]: And so being new in practice, we started this consultation group.
39:52.786 --> 39:55.849
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think Avery and I started it first with someone else.
39:56.844 --> 40:00.087
[SPEAKER_04]: And then a few years later, maybe Jamie joined as well, right?
40:00.147 --> 40:03.990
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we've had this kind of rhythm where we kind of got to know each other.
40:04.010 --> 40:06.472
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think there was just a lot in common, right?
40:06.492 --> 40:10.435
[SPEAKER_04]: So once again, all psychologists, all the same field, we have kids around the same age.
40:11.436 --> 40:13.257
[SPEAKER_04]: Adrian, I for a while, had kids at the same school.
40:13.277 --> 40:20.783
[SPEAKER_04]: And we would laugh a little bit that this is like the super target of friendships, for instance, someone who understands what it's like to be in these different environments and have the same sort of career.
40:21.864 --> 40:28.776
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so I think there was just a lot of overlap when we were all very aligned and how we were thinking about things, the way we approach things and
40:30.071 --> 40:35.956
[SPEAKER_04]: So then we went from like the consultation group, that kind of had fizzled out, but maybe like around the pandemic.
40:36.456 --> 40:41.600
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we kind of started the podcast, which was a great way to kind of like, all right, how do we work together?
40:41.640 --> 40:51.628
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we know we are friends and we have a lot in common, and we think similarly, but what about this like piece about how we, because you can be friends with people but not want to work with them, right?
40:51.648 --> 40:54.630
[SPEAKER_04]: That's like a different sort of thing we're tapping into, as well.
40:54.650 --> 40:58.654
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that enabled us to kind of play around with that piece and see that there was a lot of,
40:59.314 --> 41:01.836
[SPEAKER_04]: alignment and similarities there.
41:02.236 --> 41:06.159
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also have sisters doesn't mean you want to work with them.
41:07.160 --> 41:07.600
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
41:07.880 --> 41:09.881
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you trying to say?
41:09.901 --> 41:17.066
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me, you know, you can just go out and say we're all like psychologists here.
41:17.086 --> 41:20.469
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that I went to a podcast with my own sister.
41:22.149 --> 41:29.592
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good thing she doesn't listen, whoever she is, we have two sisters, by the way, yeah, whoever she is.
41:29.612 --> 41:30.932
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking, Maddie.
41:33.013 --> 41:34.634
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you say that?
41:35.274 --> 41:36.854
[SPEAKER_03]: You had an easy owl.
41:36.994 --> 41:39.175
[SPEAKER_03]: I was giving you an easy owl.
41:39.335 --> 41:41.336
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she doesn't listen to the podcast, you're right.
41:41.356 --> 41:41.916
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't.
41:42.839 --> 41:44.460
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Paola does either.
41:44.540 --> 41:47.523
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, Marisa will do a podcast with me either.
41:47.783 --> 41:49.505
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's not easy.
41:49.525 --> 41:50.345
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably easier.
41:50.445 --> 41:54.329
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're the most definitely not to a podcast with you.
41:54.429 --> 41:54.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:56.991 --> 42:01.835
[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe cry.
42:02.255 --> 42:04.597
[SPEAKER_00]: I cry when I laugh.
42:05.638 --> 42:06.559
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's so...
42:08.733 --> 42:13.195
[SPEAKER_03]: any difficulties or challenges with boundaries.
42:13.595 --> 42:14.956
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean placing boundaries.
42:15.496 --> 42:25.961
[SPEAKER_03]: When you say no to something, you're saying yes to something, when you say yes to something, you say no to something, and if we're looking at the
42:27.161 --> 42:29.223
[SPEAKER_03]: self as as the priorities.
42:29.283 --> 42:37.971
[SPEAKER_03]: So being able to have a full cup and give from a full cup, that means saying no a bunch, right?
42:38.791 --> 42:45.517
[SPEAKER_03]: And then being very, very strategic and thoughtful about saying yes, any kind of,
42:46.338 --> 42:59.838
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess guilt or or anything like that was with establishing boundaries, maintaining boundaries, especially if we're talking from the theme of prioritizing this out.
43:00.579 --> 43:00.819
[SPEAKER_02]: So we
43:01.260 --> 43:04.143
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, it'd be the short answer as guilt is going to be there.
43:04.263 --> 43:09.147
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talk about boundary, we've talked about that with several different groups.
43:09.227 --> 43:21.638
[SPEAKER_02]: And we come up with this kind of like picture kind of metaphor that when we say, yes, to something, we think that we're avoiding guilt, right?
43:21.678 --> 43:23.380
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're kind of like weighing like,
43:23.920 --> 43:26.803
[SPEAKER_02]: do we, if we say, yes, then we get to avoid guilt.
43:26.983 --> 43:30.186
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of what a lot of times we say, yes, we only need no.
43:30.306 --> 43:32.488
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll say, yes, because we're trying to avoid guilt, right?
43:33.289 --> 43:38.013
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I think it's easy to forget in that moment is that when you say, yes, you may avoid guilt.
43:38.193 --> 43:42.457
[SPEAKER_02]: You may, like if Lucy asks me to do something, and I say, yes, I mean, not guilty.
43:43.478 --> 43:44.699
[SPEAKER_02]: because for saying no.
43:45.180 --> 43:52.326
[SPEAKER_02]: But depending on the ask, if Lucy's ask is really big and I really don't have time for it and really should have said no.
43:52.346 --> 43:56.129
[SPEAKER_02]: I am going to also, I am going to still feel some negative feelings.
43:56.189 --> 43:57.250
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel resentful.
43:57.270 --> 43:59.752
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel stressed and frantic.
43:59.912 --> 44:00.993
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel tired.
44:01.093 --> 44:01.994
[SPEAKER_02]: I might feel angry.
44:02.034 --> 44:05.137
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a lot of other negative feelings that can come.
44:05.777 --> 44:06.977
[SPEAKER_02]: from saying yes.
44:07.277 --> 44:14.200
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we I think that we often think another way that we kind of described it is like that sometimes yes is like a credit card.
44:14.220 --> 44:19.481
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it feels so good to say yes, feel so good to like get those shoes and take them home.
44:19.921 --> 44:29.544
[SPEAKER_02]: But when the credit card bill comes or when they're like having to act on that yes comes, having to write that article that you said that you would write or having to go teach that class that you said you would teach.
44:32.365 --> 44:53.354
[SPEAKER_02]: Like frustrating and difficult and so this idea of like really thinking almost like thinking through the guess it's like okay It's going to feel good to say yes, but how is it going to feel to like deliver on this and And being able to kind of think about those feelings that it's not勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍勍�勍�勍�勍�勍�勍���勍������������������������������������������������������������������������������
44:56.275 --> 44:58.696
[SPEAKER_02]: and two that keeps our focus outside, right?
44:59.616 --> 45:04.337
[SPEAKER_02]: But to be able to say, like, yeah, they're going to be negative feelings either way, or could be, right?
45:04.357 --> 45:06.238
[SPEAKER_02]: There could be negative feelings for saying yes.
45:06.638 --> 45:09.619
[SPEAKER_02]: There could be negative feelings by, you know, that a company saying no.
45:10.279 --> 45:12.800
[SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of idea of tolerating that,
45:13.600 --> 45:17.621
[SPEAKER_02]: acknowledging that that's coming, the guilt or the resentment or whatever might be coming.
45:17.701 --> 45:32.485
[SPEAKER_02]: And this idea of our own ability to tolerate that discomfort has been really, I think powerful for us as we're trying to set our own boundaries and for other people as they're as we're kind of coaching them to do the same.
45:32.705 --> 45:36.146
[SPEAKER_00]: As you were talking, I was thinking, also you buy the shoes
45:44.428 --> 46:04.740
[SPEAKER_00]: saying yes because something looks pretty or something looks oh my god this is a great idea I'm gonna look fabulous in this and then wearing it and walking with it it's a different story so saying yes also has to come with like okay is it really also a yes for me?
46:05.712 --> 46:08.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be comfortable when I dance salsa?
46:08.774 --> 46:16.819
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be comfortable when I walk or, you know, and if it's just for looks, then that's a no.
46:17.740 --> 46:19.061
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not workable, yeah.
46:19.141 --> 46:19.381
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:19.521 --> 46:19.681
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
46:20.202 --> 46:21.042
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I love that.
46:21.082 --> 46:23.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I if I get stinging, sending that metaphor?
46:23.324 --> 46:25.605
[SPEAKER_02]: Could it really is like trying it on it?
46:25.705 --> 46:26.726
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that takes time.
46:26.906 --> 46:30.468
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people get into the habit of like, you ask me something?
46:30.588 --> 46:30.809
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
46:31.529 --> 46:40.832
[SPEAKER_02]: And don't, and not even giving themselves a second to say, wait a minute, kind of like Jamie, like we were talking about earlier with the, with the Disney opportunity of like, wait a minute, like this time, the amazing.
46:41.412 --> 46:48.094
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm already stretched so thin with my time, like even an amazing awesome opportunity to make a stop, I may be a know for that right now.
46:48.914 --> 46:53.737
[SPEAKER_02]: But all of that requires time, a lot of times it requires like quiet and tuning in.
46:54.577 --> 46:59.480
[SPEAKER_02]: But that requires us not to get into that, to try to break up almost with that automatic.
46:59.820 --> 47:01.561
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody's asking me something, I say yes.
47:02.181 --> 47:04.763
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of people kind of get into that habit.
47:05.500 --> 47:07.220
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not sure to get themselves in place.
47:07.500 --> 47:10.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you guys mentioned giving yourself permission to change your mind.
47:10.821 --> 47:11.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Return the shoes.
47:12.521 --> 47:14.262
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're not comfortable.
47:14.442 --> 47:15.322
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so funny.
47:15.882 --> 47:21.403
[SPEAKER_03]: Literally, my niece just got new running shoes and they're too small.
47:21.923 --> 47:23.683
[SPEAKER_03]: And she has to return them.
47:23.743 --> 47:29.825
[SPEAKER_03]: So this scenario is like so real in my place right now.
47:29.925 --> 47:30.525
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that bad.
47:30.745 --> 47:31.305
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
47:32.394 --> 47:34.535
[SPEAKER_00]: And it probably matches amazing with her outfits.
47:36.277 --> 47:38.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Like those shoes look perfect with my dress.
47:39.259 --> 47:41.360
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not comfortable.
47:41.400 --> 47:42.561
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they're too small.
47:44.682 --> 47:53.728
[SPEAKER_03]: What's funny is like, while you were bringing up those topics, what I've been kind of coming across for myself is my name.
47:55.206 --> 48:18.988
[SPEAKER_03]: my most important commodity right now is time and I'm really mindful of how I spend my time and I'm protective of my time and and I have to be a little bit more flexible with it because sometimes I go into calculations because
48:20.129 --> 48:29.096
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm weighing all of these different projects that I'm working on, the private practice and the send that and this other thing.
48:29.996 --> 48:38.743
[SPEAKER_03]: And part of the things that go into, okay, what how many things am I doing and do I have time for this?
48:39.143 --> 48:42.405
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of it is bids for connection, right?
48:42.445 --> 48:44.007
[SPEAKER_03]: So my father
48:48.910 --> 48:55.973
[SPEAKER_03]: My father, who's 85, has been over time just telling me that he would like to see more of me.
48:56.794 --> 48:58.074
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's great.
48:58.234 --> 49:09.800
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great thing to have and also that he's actually vocalizing a desire and he's making a bid for connection, which is also
49:11.621 --> 49:11.921
[SPEAKER_03]: new.
49:12.462 --> 49:18.306
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this is new that he's kind of consistently been telling me the same things.
49:18.346 --> 49:21.468
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm factoring in, okay.
49:22.469 --> 49:30.154
[SPEAKER_03]: The calculation of is once a month enough and trying to make things in my mind work of
49:31.015 --> 49:52.164
[SPEAKER_03]: time allocation, leaving the city because he actually lives in Connecticut, the neighboring state, and driving time, and okay, if I drive there, how can I spend, you know, and maybe it's just not that difficult, and maybe it's just, I just go, this is more often.
49:53.582 --> 49:55.444
[SPEAKER_03]: versus doing all this math.
49:56.064 --> 49:56.344
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
49:57.065 --> 50:20.843
[SPEAKER_02]: What I do think sometimes at one of the things we talked about with Down Street that sometimes can be helpful to make the decision really intentionally, like once they aren't constantly make that decision, almost like making like a policy or like a rule, like whether it's around like visitation or anything else, if like, I think sometimes it's more helpful to say like, I, you know, I would rather not be leaving town.
50:21.363 --> 50:39.337
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, more than once in a month or more than once or whatever, like the kind of like really tuning in and getting clear so you don't have to make that decision every single time, but also having that flexibility that like if if something comes up, you're not going to hold yourself to it like either way, but I do think that that idea of really seeing what what works for you.
50:40.699 --> 50:55.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And being able to kind of like go with that versus constantly questioning because I think sometimes with all of that math it's like you're trying to give yourself permission to make the decision one way or the other when you could probably just like decide this is what's going to work for me and give yourself permission for that.
50:56.476 --> 51:17.596
[SPEAKER_04]: to be what what you do and then flex the ability to change out if it stops working for one reason are the other, you know, yeah, so even the heart of us that wants to like fix it and figure it out, wait in the fan, like I do that a while, like trying to figure out the next like five years, right, where it's like, okay, maybe we just like, I plan the next time I'm going to visit him, and I can go like on a case by case basis rather than having to do so much at once.
51:22.090 --> 51:32.258
[SPEAKER_03]: And making the decision beforehand is something that will help me just not think about it so hard.
51:32.858 --> 51:33.059
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
51:33.539 --> 51:35.741
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't like what stuff we're going for.
51:35.761 --> 51:40.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the one time they say she reaches where a black t-shirt when we do the black podcast.
51:40.464 --> 51:42.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, absolutely not.
51:42.886 --> 51:43.787
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm wearing colors.
51:44.968 --> 51:47.410
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, just if you didn't have to think about it.
51:49.510 --> 52:08.655
[SPEAKER_03]: I do have a therapy uniform and it's this, I was supposed to see, anyway, this is the therapy uniform of a button up in the blazer and I just take the next button up and pick a blazer and that's, I don't have to think about it.
52:19.137 --> 52:30.181
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, any, any other thoughts on boundaries or nose and yeses?
52:30.682 --> 52:31.582
[SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes.
52:33.731 --> 52:43.659
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to kind of do inventory on what you say yes to regularly to see if it really is kind of truly a yes.
52:43.699 --> 52:59.092
[SPEAKER_01]: I know for me What happens is maybe some of the stuff that I've said yes to We can't avoid like a not-any and routine things in life, you know, we have the half-to-use that we have to do but
53:00.092 --> 53:06.497
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, sometimes what happens is I'll say yes because I'm I'm sticking out something and I don't know quite what it is.
53:06.637 --> 53:26.093
[SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe it's me trying to deal with boredom and so Um, I'll I'll say yes to this this or this when really if I would have just taken some time to look at, you know, to kind of like go back to the, the shoe uh, credit card metaphor, you know, if I've gone in my closet and I see what I have and like do I like this anymore?
53:26.553 --> 53:28.735
[SPEAKER_01]: like, do I need to throw it out?
53:29.196 --> 53:43.529
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe replace it with something else that is now a better fit or something that I would just enjoy, you know, a lot more that would be great to kind of do do some inventory around that, you know, like I think like,
53:44.890 --> 54:02.155
[SPEAKER_01]: our hobbies and fun things that people a lot of times unfortunately look at us like the optional things in life you know I'll do inventory on those like you know I like to bake and and cook but over the past few years I've really gotten into
54:02.775 --> 54:28.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Gardening and that is what sort of like lights me up even more and so you know if something is kind of not lighting me up in the same way rather than adding on to the stuff that I'm already doing like it's it's better for me to stop take a look at it see if I want to let it go and then if I need to to add in something else then say us to the new thing
54:32.427 --> 54:55.822
[SPEAKER_00]: question us mothers because we have teens and we have and they have, you know, activities and whatnot and when it comes to prioritizing yourself and not feeling guilty about it right like or or your kids would be very good at also making you feel like the guilt rep right or not feeling selfish.
54:57.465 --> 55:01.951
[SPEAKER_00]: about no, right now I need to just go.
55:02.231 --> 55:12.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I thought about it yesterday as I was thinking about also mental health and women that are just giving birth and they're having babies and they're not.
55:13.306 --> 55:14.487
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm caring for their.
55:15.228 --> 55:17.610
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the hormones are going bananas.
55:17.650 --> 55:31.421
[SPEAKER_00]: The kid is crying and crying and I remember an episode of my son just crying and crying and crying and I'm like, if I stay with you right now, I'm gonna hurt you because I don't know what else to do.
55:31.481 --> 55:36.425
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to make you stop crying and so what I did is I put them down.
55:36.746 --> 55:38.107
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, what's up?
55:38.427 --> 55:39.288
[SPEAKER_00]: I put them down.
55:40.008 --> 55:47.330
[SPEAKER_00]: and I walked outside for five minutes to the front porch and I just like breathe.
55:47.830 --> 55:50.030
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not you breathe, right?
55:50.070 --> 55:58.992
[SPEAKER_00]: So giving myself even though it was five minutes, I prioritized my mental health.
55:59.092 --> 56:02.493
[SPEAKER_00]: My legs otherwise I'm going to be a monster to you.
56:02.993 --> 56:03.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
56:03.193 --> 56:04.253
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to turn into this
56:07.028 --> 56:13.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And so giving, now that they're older, obviously, there's still needs and there's still time.
56:13.853 --> 56:35.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And at times you still have to say, no, right now I need 20 minutes to look at my whatever show you're watching or whatever thing comes you down or makes you send or breathing or ground outside or hug a tree because that's what I do.
56:36.948 --> 56:57.936
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, just doing that without feeling like you're not putting your kids first, which we, I mean, at least as my culture Latinos are like, you know, you kids come first, you sacrifice for them, you do everything for them, you come later and you sacrifice for your husband for everybody.
56:58.776 --> 57:00.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Mom's elast.
57:00.137 --> 57:00.737
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
57:00.817 --> 57:15.807
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just being able to prioritize you without feeling as a mother, without feeling like, you know, guilt or shame or any of that.
57:21.022 --> 57:23.082
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you guys deal with this?
57:23.883 --> 57:31.004
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the first thing is to kind of acknowledge that you may feel guilty, and that may be okay, right?
57:31.024 --> 57:41.526
[SPEAKER_02]: That there are some times, I think Jamie and Lucy both mentioned this therapist that we had kind of worked all worked with in different capacities, Taylor.
57:42.386 --> 57:43.947
[SPEAKER_02]: And she talks about that guilt.
57:44.387 --> 57:45.687
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this analogy she uses.
57:45.987 --> 57:48.448
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the guilt is kind of like a neighbor like knocking at the door.
57:48.608 --> 57:49.968
[SPEAKER_02]: And if the neighbor at knocking at the door
57:50.668 --> 57:53.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you know, your dog got out of your fence, you need to go repair your fence.
57:54.071 --> 57:55.592
[SPEAKER_02]: The guilt is the service.
57:55.652 --> 57:56.813
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's serving you, right?
57:56.853 --> 57:58.534
[SPEAKER_02]: It's helping you to go repair the fence.
57:59.195 --> 58:03.818
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it comes, if it comes knocking in it, it accused you of something that you didn't do.
58:03.898 --> 58:06.521
[SPEAKER_02]: If I go my first, whatever the, you know, the dog came out of them all.
58:07.201 --> 58:10.543
[SPEAKER_02]: But in a way that you're like, yeah, actually, there's something I need to feel guilty about.
58:10.563 --> 58:13.705
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something I need to do here, that you can kind of let it go.
58:13.745 --> 58:14.686
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not serving you.
58:14.786 --> 58:17.627
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think sometimes guilt can be helpful.
58:17.687 --> 58:24.491
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it can say, like, hey, every, you know, you're not spending enough time doing X-Y-R-C, or you're not focused on this thing.
58:24.551 --> 58:33.297
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, if I was feeling a lot myself, feel guilty about being late today, I could really get trapped in it, but I could also say, like, hey, maybe I could have tested on my equipment.
58:34.117 --> 58:37.798
[SPEAKER_02]: a couple hours ago, made sure it wasn't going to be such a sound problem.
58:38.058 --> 58:41.779
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that there's sometimes you can learn from it and say, okay, I'm like, that's helpful to know.
58:42.319 --> 58:53.261
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you've got to leave it and say, but if I was continuing right now to apologize and go on and on and on about my sound issue, that would ruin this whole experience that we're having together.
58:53.301 --> 58:59.102
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think sometimes it's helpful to kind of acknowledge the guilt and say, like, hey, are you trying to tell me something?
58:59.142 --> 59:01.202
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there something I can learn from or going from
59:04.964 --> 59:06.946
[SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes it's just they're making you feel bad.
59:07.427 --> 59:15.316
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's apparent when you know like you did, that's a beautiful example of you knew I have to take a break.
59:15.336 --> 59:17.017
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not being my best self.
59:17.098 --> 59:18.759
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even being myself.
59:19.500 --> 59:29.108
[SPEAKER_02]: I must take a break and my goodness that happens with infants and it sure happens with teenagers that you're like, I know I'm not being who I want to be in this interaction.
59:29.468 --> 59:30.849
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I must take a break.
59:30.969 --> 59:32.110
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to take a break.
59:32.710 --> 59:43.499
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, I mean, ideally we can have some space to take care of ourselves before it gets to that point, but absolutely there are times and it's like that you may feel guilty, but also like this was the right choice.
59:44.560 --> 59:49.578
[SPEAKER_02]: And only you kind of know what that is, but yeah, so to say.
59:50.812 --> 59:55.335
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think along those lines, I think, especially looking back when my kids were in terms, right?
59:56.155 --> 01:00:09.664
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I would only allow myself to break, like the threshold was so high, like only when I got really bad, or I could only if I was working, like doing, like it wasn't okay for me to like get help, so I could go and like read a book, or like get my nails done.
01:00:09.684 --> 01:00:16.328
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it had to be something really, really important, or you had to be at the breaking point in risk of like injuring my kid, and then it's okay to take a break.
01:00:16.708 --> 01:00:17.429
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think like,
01:00:17.829 --> 01:00:35.383
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely we do want to prioritize ourselves in those moments, but I think sometimes that gets us caught in the guilt that it has to be really bad for us to like put ourselves first and almost like how do we move that back and I think for a lot of women maybe that space before then is like the harder space like I don't have to
01:00:35.983 --> 01:00:41.970
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm not going to fall apart if I don't, but gosh, it would be really nice and like am I allowed to do it there, right?
01:00:41.990 --> 01:00:49.078
[SPEAKER_04]: And so that permission for, um, you know, getting support putting yourself first, I think can be really helpful.
01:00:49.098 --> 01:00:51.781
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the other thing with teenagers too, I, I think
01:00:52.462 --> 01:00:54.684
[SPEAKER_04]: this concept of like seasons of life, does that make sense?
01:00:54.704 --> 01:01:00.411
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, they're times that my husband are like, okay, we've surely like, like, probably good to like plan a date night and have that.
01:01:00.791 --> 01:01:09.460
[SPEAKER_04]: But we kind of like make the choice right now to like hang out at home more on the weekends simply because like we have these kids, I'm really aware right now of the time in terms of like, they're leaving home.
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:13.084
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I've got one who's gonna be senior, one who's got just a few years left and like,
01:01:13.745 --> 01:01:28.192
[SPEAKER_04]: I think right now our priority is to, like, how do we soak up every minute, like, being available around for them, like, knowing that there's this season coming really quickly when, like, actually, I won't really have to prioritize them or that won't be an option even if I really wanted to.
01:01:28.212 --> 01:01:31.474
[SPEAKER_04]: So that kind of a helpful mindset too.
01:01:31.514 --> 01:01:37.177
[SPEAKER_04]: And, and I don't think we're doing it from a place that, like, oh, we really wish we were doing something else and we feel like resentful around us.
01:01:37.197 --> 01:01:40.819
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's good to, like, tap into, but kind of keeping that in mind.
01:01:43.043 --> 01:01:43.524
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:01:43.564 --> 01:01:48.957
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a temperature check, yeah, yeah, yeah, agree.
01:01:49.057 --> 01:01:50.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think too, like,
01:01:52.658 --> 01:02:21.610
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to model for my kids how important it is to really pay attention to what you're wanting and needing and you know realistically like I can't be available to them 24 seven like that's just not the case and I don't want to consistently put my needs last I don't want to teach my children like that that's what they're entitled to.
01:02:22.050 --> 01:02:48.571
[SPEAKER_01]: you know that they should expect that from other individuals like that that I come first all the time and that my kids don't you know they don't they don't they don't think that and they see like the benefits of doing things for yourself like prioritizing so like every year I go to Disney with my sister like in February and they know like that's the week that is for me and for my sister
01:02:50.713 --> 01:03:11.698
[SPEAKER_01]: to like fill our cup with something that we love and I know that when I come back you know that I can be even more engaged and and tune with what's going on with them and I you know it encouraged them to kind of like do the same thing like
01:03:12.078 --> 01:03:20.542
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't, you know, I love being around them, but I know that like right now, their time with friends is like really extremely, you know, important.
01:03:21.002 --> 01:03:23.624
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to have that as well.
01:03:23.704 --> 01:03:33.288
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I think just modeling for them, like, not spreading myself so thin and putting everybody else first.
01:03:33.729 --> 01:03:35.049
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a service to me.
01:03:35.149 --> 01:03:37.030
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a service to anybody else.
01:03:37.470 --> 01:03:38.771
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to see that.
01:03:43.287 --> 01:04:02.126
[SPEAKER_03]: So as we're wrapping up the episode and sometimes we're people are hearing this for maybe the first time, some people are hearing this as a reminder, all right, I have to remind myself to fill my cup first.
01:04:03.968 --> 01:04:08.071
[SPEAKER_03]: regardless of what stage the listener is at.
01:04:09.112 --> 01:04:14.897
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like a takeaway of like a baby step, right?
01:04:14.937 --> 01:04:26.586
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a small manageable thing that anyone can do right now would be a nice takeaway,
01:04:33.591 --> 01:04:38.153
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of actionable first step to take.
01:04:38.333 --> 01:04:38.634
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:04:39.454 --> 01:04:50.079
[SPEAKER_03]: If I start today and if I haven't and if I've been last on my to-do list, what would be a good starting point?
01:04:52.100 --> 01:04:54.061
[SPEAKER_04]: I think often it's even like just
01:04:56.811 --> 01:04:58.292
[SPEAKER_04]: what would I even want?
01:04:58.572 --> 01:04:58.792
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:04:58.812 --> 01:05:15.580
[SPEAKER_04]: So for those of us who are really oriented towards prioritizing everyone else, sometimes in that process, we abandon ourselves and become disconnected from ourselves and we have shoved down our own wants and needs for so long that before we even take a step or take action, we have to like start by tuning in a day like, oh,
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:20.043
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if I were to prioritize myself or take care of myself like well, what does that look like?
01:05:20.083 --> 01:05:20.964
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what do I want?
01:05:20.984 --> 01:05:21.764
[SPEAKER_04]: What do I need?
01:05:21.784 --> 01:05:22.865
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what am I missing?
01:05:23.305 --> 01:05:24.406
[SPEAKER_04]: What would bring me joy?
01:05:24.526 --> 01:05:32.211
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to like start with that curiosity of like tuning and word to even start to put to know like what direction to move.
01:05:33.192 --> 01:05:34.713
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be my suggestion.
01:05:35.033 --> 01:05:35.653
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:05:35.854 --> 01:05:36.754
[SPEAKER_04]: Be curious.
01:05:41.635 --> 01:06:04.269
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other starting points I think one would be to give yourself space kind of to do what we see so but like especially when you're asked, but on the spot like will you do this and to give yourself we even offer like some space saving like free phrases up let me check my calendar and get back to you let me think on that and get back to you just to not to try to like break that pattern of like someone asks yes.
01:06:04.869 --> 01:06:16.552
[SPEAKER_02]: to just give yourself a second, ideally to tune in, take a breath and really see how if it feels right for you, but even just to look at your calendar and see, like, okay, this is going to, what is this going to require of me?
01:06:16.752 --> 01:06:18.213
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I a yes or am I a no?
01:06:18.773 --> 01:06:25.755
[SPEAKER_02]: And really giving yourself that space to make that decision more intentionally versus just like automatically.
01:06:28.049 --> 01:06:31.590
[SPEAKER_01]: One of our permissions looks that we talk about is permission to hit the easy button.
01:06:32.450 --> 01:06:38.291
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that can be really helpful, especially just everybody so busy these days.
01:06:38.711 --> 01:06:46.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is something that you don't have to think about necessarily, how can I make this as easy as possible?
01:06:46.392 --> 01:06:48.833
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you were saying, you have your uniform for work, right?
01:06:49.253 --> 01:06:55.314
[SPEAKER_01]: That means you take the blazer and you take the shirt out and that's what you do and that's the easy option.
01:06:55.574 --> 01:07:12.757
[SPEAKER_01]: you know for you or for us it may be like tonight okay we're going to have breakfast food because that's what we have in the fridge and I don't have all day to like fix dinner and we may be even needing it on paper plates you know so it's again like what's the easiest thing that we can do how can we make it easy
01:07:13.558 --> 01:07:14.338
[SPEAKER_00]: Simplify.
01:07:14.358 --> 01:07:14.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:07:14.558 --> 01:07:15.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Mission to simplify.
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:16.679
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally.
01:07:16.739 --> 01:07:18.479
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm jealous.
01:07:18.519 --> 01:07:20.400
[SPEAKER_03]: I've walked breakfast food for dinner.
01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:20.940
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
01:07:20.980 --> 01:07:21.980
[SPEAKER_03]: It's my favorite.
01:07:22.741 --> 01:07:24.941
[SPEAKER_03]: And paper plates is like, okay.
01:07:25.201 --> 01:07:27.142
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's make it even easier, right?
01:07:27.322 --> 01:07:27.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:07:29.463 --> 01:07:30.083
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing.
01:07:31.443 --> 01:07:35.364
[SPEAKER_03]: So where can people get in touch with you?
01:07:35.984 --> 01:07:37.245
[SPEAKER_03]: What would be the best way?
01:07:38.405 --> 01:07:57.930
[SPEAKER_02]: You can contact us through our web site, which is badassverbalian.com, and it's just like it sounds like the ADASS Rebellion.com, and there's, you can, you can sign up for different, like permissions slips there, et cetera, but you can also get on, get our email through that and contact us through that.
01:08:00.330 --> 01:08:00.771
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfect.
01:08:00.831 --> 01:08:01.351
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
01:08:04.587 --> 01:08:05.988
[SPEAKER_03]: We did not play in that.
01:08:06.488 --> 01:08:07.849
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm amazing, okay.
01:08:08.789 --> 01:08:13.412
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for sitting with us, for chatting with us.
01:08:13.712 --> 01:08:19.195
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really glad we were able to have this conversation and hopefully it's a first.
01:08:19.836 --> 01:08:21.036
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel bad to have you back?
01:08:21.056 --> 01:08:22.377
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like I'm bad.
01:08:22.397 --> 01:08:23.178
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm bad.
01:08:23.278 --> 01:08:24.378
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, come on.
01:08:25.799 --> 01:08:28.401
[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
01:08:28.421 --> 01:08:31.763
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be back next week with your permission.
01:08:40.468 --> 01:08:42.872
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is all we have for you this week.
01:08:43.713 --> 01:08:46.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you follow permission to podcast.
01:08:47.459 --> 01:08:51.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be back next week with your permission.
