Success Doesn't Remove Self-Doubt

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Let's talk about confidence, guest episode.
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Stuart Cuzner, the long game.
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I'm John M.
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Walsh, and this is Let's Talk About Confidence.
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Today's guest is someone I've known for nearly 20 years.
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And I've watched his career unfold in a way that says something important about confidence.
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Stuart Cuzner is now a partner at Menzies, he's a top 20 UK accountancy firm.
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But when I first met him in the mid-2000s, he was in his twenties, sitting in the meeting, taking notes whilst the partner ran the show.
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He wasn't the one leading the conversation, he was the one learning by watching.
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This year Stuart celebrates 27 years in accountancy.
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He's risen from assistant manager through every level to partner.
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And he did it without a university degree.
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Something he chose at 17 because he didn't think he was bright enough for A-levels.
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That belief turned out to be wrong, but the choice turned out to be right.
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Stuart, welcome to Let's Talk About Confidence.
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Thanks for having me, John.
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Take me back to 1999, you've done a year of GNVQ business, and you decide no A levels, no university, so I'm going straight into work.
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What was going through your head?
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I was in a really small class.
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I had six or seven people in my class, as opposed to the A-level classes that were 25, 30 people, and we just we found that they obviously had a plan.
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Yeah.
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I didn't have a plan.
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Right.
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I knew I wanted to be an accountancy.
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Wow, where did that come from?
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My dad used to run his own business.
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Right.
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And he the only time he ever wore a suit was when he was going to see the accountant.
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Wow.
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So he went and saw his accountant and I sort of mentioned that I in sort of I I'd like to go down that route.
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He went, saw his accountant, and they gave him some books about profit and loss, balance sheets, general business uh accountancy business and brought them back and gave them to me.
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Wow.
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And so from so maybe 14, 15, I had accountancy books at home.
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Yeah.
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And that helped me do my business GCSE.
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Yeah.
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And that's why I went then into GMVQ business.
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Wow.
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I was keen to get into work, not super keen to go to university because I I I thought I'd really, really struggle.
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Right.
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So I I decided that going into work would be potentially an easier option.
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Going down the apprenti apprentice route would be would be really good for me.
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What made you think you'd struggle at uni?
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My GCSEs weren't fantastic.
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Yeah.
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I had to resit my English.
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I got English D and I had to resit it and got a C whilst I was doing my GMVQ business.
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Yeah.
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And I just wasn't, I'm just not academically bright in that way.
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And therefore, to go into a university to go and then do more of that wasn't super attractive.
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Yeah.
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That sounds like a smart choice.
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As it's turned out to be, it has been a smart choice.
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Absolutely.
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But it's funny thinking about it back then.
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I never realized that you were a passionate accountant.
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I knew you were a very good accountant, but I never realized that it was your passion from a young age.
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Absolutely.
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My my dad coming home that that day with those books was great.
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I I enjoyed flicking through those books.
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It took me a few years to actually understand what was in those books.
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Yeah.
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But I but I liked the concepts and and then replicating that whilst doing my GCSE business.
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Yeah.
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GMVQ business really did help foster that sort of passion for accountancy.
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Wow.
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It's amazing.
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It's amazing.
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So you decided, right, I'm going to work, you get a job in Hitchin and an accountancy practice there.
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So talk me through this.
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What was it like walking into that first practice that you joined?
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It's Hitchin and Hertfordshire.
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It's year 17.
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How how did you feel?
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It was a weird one because I'd waited, I'd got the the job, I'd done interviews in May.
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Yeah.
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And my start date was the 2nd of August.
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So I didn't start for three months.
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And I therefore had to wait three months before I got to go and experience being in work.
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Yeah.
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I was therefore very young.
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Yeah.
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I'd had a few mu a few weeks off.
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I went into the practice.
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They were lovely.
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They really did look after me.
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But at that time I was very much a trainee, very much a junior.
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And so therefore, you know, if if there was admin work to be done, I was very much doing it.
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If we needed stamps collecting from the shops, I'd be sent to go and do so.
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Or if they were, you know, getting a cake run, I'd be very much sent to go and do that.
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But that's I think the for me, I recognise that in some of the jobs I took on early, and it's this idea that you're willing to do it.
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It's not like one wasn't below you the fact you had to go to the cake shop.
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No, absolutely.
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I which is it was uh like a rite of passage, I guess, at that point.
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And you know, when you moved up and the new ad the new trainee came in, you kind of went, Phew, I don't have to do that anymore.
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And the uh the the new trainee would then pick up those those roles, which was which was nice.
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You c kind of saw it passing down.
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Which is nice, a nice way to see it.
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And then you I mean you went on to whilst the university wasn't a thing for you, you went on to complete your AET and your ACCE.
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For those that don't know about accounting, so what's AAT and what is ACCE?
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They sound like exams.
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Yeah.
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What are they?
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Absolutely.
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So the AAT is an entry-level qualification, and it's a it's a great foundation qualification, three years normally, and you would expect all accountants worth their sort to at least have AAT.
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And that then leads you on nicely to do the chartered and the certified chartered exams.
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Yeah.
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Where I was doing my studying and my apprenticeship, they then sent me off to do ACCA after I passed my AAT.
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And that's normally a three-year course minimum, just due to the the level of the number of exams you have to do.
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I managed to pass mine in in about two and a half years.
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Wow.
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So I I got mine done really quickly.
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Even with some failures in there, I managed to get mine done really quickly because I was committed to to getting it done and I wanted to learn from the mistakes I'd made for the failures.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, by 2000 and I think it was 2005, I was qualified.
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Wow.
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I was qualified.
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Fairly fast track, innit?
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From walking through the door in 99 as a fresh lever GNVQ in business to and then so when did you realise that that was broadly equivalent to a degree?
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Because that's what they came to.
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Many years later, many years later, where I just happened to be I think I was looking it up for something else, yeah, and and it came up that it was broadly equivalent to a degree, which made me quite proud given that.
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I was gonna say you know, I had friends and and and and colleagues that had done degrees.
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Yeah.
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I never thought I would be bright enough to do a degree.
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Yeah.
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And so therefore, to find out that my ACCA was actually equivalent to a degree was was was was quite nice for me.
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Subsequently, sort of later on in my career, I did then do the ACA pathways route as well, which is you have ACCA, which is the charter certified, and you have ACA, which is the the institute.
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I now have both qualifications.
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Wow.
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So I am dual qualified there as well.
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What did that change in how you saw yourself?
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You know, you've you to you, I guess you just done the exams because we're a natural part of you growing through the business, and then later you find out it's degree.
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What does that do to your how you see yourself?
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It it gives you that or it gave me that level of kind of satisfaction, and from that satisfaction gave me the confidence that I I in that field, yeah, I have that ability.
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Yeah.
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It just has to be maybe slightly focused in the field, and and you know, I passed my exams pretty well in the end, yeah.
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And therefore to to end up with a qualification that's equivalent to a degree was was totally unexpected for me, but but very satisfying and uh and and sort of gave me that confidence to to to go into that next stage when I did my ACA as well.
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But that the the the pathways there.
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I think that's the for me the strong part there is the so you leave at school, you're making the decision, I'm not gonna do a degree because I don't think I'm bright enough yet, you go on to do it, which is the part that you just kept moving forward.
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I mean, one of the things we talk about a lot and let's talk about confidence is it's taking a step, one small step, and you know, by six years later you've got a degree equivalent, which was something that you know you thought, I'm not sure I can do that.
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So we've got you you know you're there, you've got some qualifications, you're starting to sort of move around the practice and hitching.
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But when we were talking earlier, you were saying the progression rates were a wee bit congested there, there was no real way to move forward.
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However, an ex-colleague had opened the door here at Menzies.
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So, what made you take that step?
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I was I thought I had more to give and be more valuable to clients and to a firm.
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One of my previous mentors at at the firm in that I was at previously was very kind to me and gave me that experience about how to manage clients.
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And she was she was great.
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She basically left me to run her portfolio.
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It was only a small portfolio of maybe you know 30-40 clients.
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She worked part-time and she basically left me to it to get on with running the portfolio and then report to her on the days in which she was in, which was great.
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It gave me that experience.
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It was a and and I and I watched her pass that down to the next person after I left, and he he got that experience as well.
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So it was really great.
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And again, that having that confidence to know how to deal with clients, it was it was a great little test with only a very limited number of clients.
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And if I was ready to take that next step, the problem was is that there wasn't a portfolio for me to manage other than my my mentors at that time, but it was quite a small portfolio.
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Yeah.
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So when I looked outside, the current practice I was at, the one of my colleagues said, Why don't you come and come with come to where I am?
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They've got openings, they've got we've got lots of clients.
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Why don't you come over?
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Yeah.
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So I interviewed, I must have interviewed well.
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Yeah.
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And I joined them in, I joined the practice in November around about November 2006.
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Wow.
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And I came straight in as an assistant manager.
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Yeah.
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And was able to then start meeting clients straight away because I'd had some experience of that.
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Think that's when we met you?
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Absolutely.
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2006?
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Yep.
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Twenty happy years later, we're still talking.
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Absolutely.
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So we we must have both done something right.
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Done something right.
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Definitely a thousand percent.
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What was that like though?
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When you know, so you joined here as an assistant manager.
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What was the culture like compared to the smaller one?
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Was it different?
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It wasn't much different.
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It was obviously just a whole new bunch of people to to get to to learn and and and to work with, which big groups of people I don't do particularly well with.
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Again, it's something that I I I would rather pick one person off at a time, maybe.
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Yeah.
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And I came from a a a group where I was managing a portfolio on my own.
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Yeah.
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So I could be quite solo and you know, and that was fine.
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When I came here, I was then assistant manager of a team of five or six.
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Yeah.
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And so to you know, to deal with that number of people was was was a challenge to begin with.
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But I certainly started building my confidence up dealing with groups of people and leading a team, which is something that I wasn't necessarily responsible for at my old place.
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No, you wouldn't.
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But I I came into here and uh pretty much started leading the team fairly early on.
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Wow.
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20 years later you're still here.
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So was there something about Menzies specifically that's made you want to stay?
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Over that period of time I had the I was given a fair amount of latitude in terms of clients who I wanted to work with and and and employing the right people.
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And that that that's been great, and that's that's definitely kept me here.
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And then over the last few years as as as Menzies has grown, I've had some great opportunities to work with some great people, yeah and with some great clients as well, and learn lots of new things, and learning new things is is what I think that drives us all.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Well, absolutely.
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Having knowledge drives confidence, I think, yeah, because you you know more you can you can talk to more people about lots of different things.
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Yeah.
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It sounds like they've kept interest because a lot of people move around every few years chasing titles, chasing money, but you've been in that one firm for two decades, and it's like, I guess what would you think is the case for staying in terms of from a confidence point of view, would you think that does?
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Because some would say you're getting a new challenge going somewhere else.
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Does that build your confidence?
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What do you think is it?
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You kind of alluded to it a wee bit there.
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What is it do you think made you stay?
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You know, this, or if you were talking to someone else, or what's the case for them staying?
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Opportunity is is has been always very, very good.
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I've always said if you work hard, opportunities will will come your way.
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Yeah, you nobody should ever be, you know, you should never be given it.
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It should you should be earned.
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And I've always felt that I've I've worked very hard, I've earned all of my progression, which which has been great.
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And the progression has come.
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It's I've whatever I've you know, whatever's been promised to me, yeah, because I've delivered, yeah.
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It's it's you know, the progression has come, and therefore that keeps you that keeps you that keeps you here.
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Yeah.
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And that's that's not changed.
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Yeah.
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Even when you get to being partner, that you still have those opportunities to work with you know great clients, great people, yeah.
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And that and and new opportunities w with with other businesses, yeah, just keeps you interested, keeps you excited, keeps you engaged for the future.
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So a really good lesson for other companies, isn't it?
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That if you're if you have got consistent opportunities that you're you're able to take because you've delivered.
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If more companies done that, we'd probably see a drop in the moving every two or three years to get more money, get a better better job or whatever.
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So or get different experience.
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It's a really strong thing.
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You mentioned this so Menzies went through a merger quite not that recent, but it went through a merger.
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And one of the things you shared with me was possibly you felt that kind of imposter syndrome moment when that happened.
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Can you tell me a wee bit more about that?
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Absolutely.
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When when I when I I was part of the firm that merged into Menzies, and when that happened, Menzies is, as you said earlier, is a top 20 firm.
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We've got some really super bright partners, and coming into that as a as a joining partner, invariably at that moment in time, I felt very I wasn't good enough to become part of a top 20 firm.
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I'd been a fairly local practice.
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It wasn't something that that I, without a university degree, without, you know, not being privately school educated or something like that would be able to fit into that, into that, into with that partner group.
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I have been pleasantly surprised that we over the last three, two and a half, three years, it's been a great experience to to to learn that I am better than I thought I was.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:26.799
Um and that's given me confidence to work with these people, really bright partners, as I say, and we are in a you know, my my where I was to where I am now is completely different.
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:27.440
Yeah.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:38.159
I mean, it's funny from an external point, you've always been steward to us, and you've always been competent and warm, you know.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.240
So we don't see that change.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.600
It's funny, but inside what I really liked uh the the way you were saying it, it was the didn't feel you good enough.
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.679
That we never saw that from the outside.
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.240
So for you, how did you overcome that?
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:58.720
But how did you move from I've we've just been taken over, I'm part of this bigger company, I don't I don't think I should be here, you know, blah blah blah.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.159
So how did you fill how did you fill that gap?
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:15.119
I was very lucky that when I joined as part of the Menzies partnership group, one of my first things that I was able to get my hands on was a partnership mentor.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:16.400
Oh yeah.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:40.160
And he has really supported me over the last couple of years to help me navigate being part of you know such a big group of people, but also you know, learning how to do things in the right way, and that has been massive to me to be able to take me from where I was to where I am now.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:50.880
And when over the last couple of years, the the people that I've been working with, I've been learning from them all the way along.
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:51.519
Got you.
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:57.680
And working with them has you know has actually built up my knowledge base as well.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:58.240
Yeah.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:02.480
And so we're you know, two and a half years later, I'm I'm I'm in a position where I know more.
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:03.359
Yeah, gotcha.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.599
They know more about they know more about me.
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:06.000
Yeah.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:17.119
We work really well together, and generally I think just having a really great working relationship means that everybody has more confidence, more trust in one another, yeah, and you you end up in a really, really good place.
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.079
Which is great.
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:31.599
And I think it was the thing you were saying earlier that often we find this is across the board with experts, but sometimes you find someone who's really expert about a particular subject knows everything in that subject, but they may not know things outside that you do.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:36.720
So for example, we were talking personal tax, business tax, all those kind of different things.
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:47.279
You seem to have that knowledge across you've always been in my mind, you've always been inquisitive about the only aspects of tax, not just one specialism.
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:48.160
Absolutely.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.960
I've I've I'm a general practitioner by trade.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:51.519
Yeah.
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.799
And I've been working with specialists.
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.920
Uh some of my partner colleagues are specialists in their field.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:58.319
Yeah.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.880
And which is great because it means that very technical pieces, yeah.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.799
You know, they're very they're super diligent on and they know their stuff.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.519
Yeah.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:15.359
Where we get where you end up then that the because they're specialists, they they don't know necessarily about some of the other bits that I know.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.880
Or the client, perhaps.
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:17.839
Or maybe the client.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.599
The relationship with the client, please.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.319
Absolutely.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:27.119
And me being more of a general practitioner means that I know I know lots about lots of different things.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:27.680
Yeah.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:40.319
And which I which I think is great because it it it means I can have an conversation at a certain level, take you know, take it to the specialist, yeah, and then the specialist can help me just fill in that last 10%, which I which is not my specialty, perhaps.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.039
Yeah.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.240
So it makes sense.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:50.319
It's again, it's I think there's a recurrent theme for me, Stuart, in your story, that it's you keep learning a bit at a time.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:59.039
You don't go like, I need to know you know, you start on the books that your dad brought on, you read them, you don't understand them at first, you take time and eventually they make sense to you.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:14.480
You do the business degree because of the books, and then as we go forward, it's like you work with a specialist, you learn enough that you need to know to satisfy your general clients, but you go back to it's it's I think often people forget you've got to learn a bit at a time, you know.
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.559
You you know steps, isn't it?
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.759
Knowledge gives you confidence.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:19.920
Having knowledge is powerful.
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:21.119
Definitely.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:30.000
I mean, you know, assistant manager, manager, principal, associate, partner, you've gone through it all to 2018, clear ladder, climate's taking you years, which is great.
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:43.920
We talk about this bit called the boring middle bit, and any skill that you're learning, you were mentioning your sons playing clarinet, and I guess at the beginning he's all enthusiastic, then he gets to the bit where he's got a practice and he doesn't feel himself getting any better.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:50.000
Then, because you're probably supporting him, he keeps doing it and eventually pops out and he he gets it.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:21:00.160
But a lot of people in that middle bit don't realise that their brain's rewiring, so they they give up just before it meat gets to their fingers or their brain.
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.720
So they give up, they don't realise that it's changed.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.160
And this is the bit that we talk about.
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:10.799
And I saw this where you always think, like, so that that's a long 20 years, you've done it, you've got to partner, you're still young.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.079
What's the what sustained you through the bowl in the middle bit?
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:19.200
What's the bit was there a bit where you went, man, this is I'm not getting anywhere?
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.839
Did that happen, or was it did you miss that?
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.440
I I think I'm still I've I still have an element of that.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:25.680
Yeah.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:31.119
But the the the areas I struggle in, particularly, technically I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty good.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:40.400
The bits I struggle with are the you know the the the business development, the marketing, the the networking, the the the big groups of people.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.400
Yeah, that's the bit I struggle with.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:50.640
I can the the I've started doing more and more, yeah, but I don't feel that I'm making any real progress on it.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:51.200
Right.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:22:03.119
I uh a couple of weeks ago I I had a uh presentation I did at a one of our local events and I had to stand up in front of 30 people, do a presentation.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.279
It was only five to six, seven minutes on who Menzies are, what do we do?
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:07.920
What do I do?
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.039
Who am I?
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.000
And my hand was shaking so badly.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.960
I could I could barely I had to actually hold something to stop my hand shaking so bad.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.119
I found that really, really difficult.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.440
That's not my skill set.
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:22.880
I want to be better.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.359
Yeah.
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:32.559
And so I'm still in the middle, really brilliant, really caught in the middle on trying to be better at those sorts of things.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.480
There's a little bit of way to go.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:35.920
And I and I acknowledge that.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:44.079
And you know, listening to one of your podcasts from the other day, I can see that I'm still in that middle bit where I it doesn't feel like I'm making any progress, but I'm gonna keep going.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:46.799
And yeah, that's the bit I struggle with.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.640
And I think you've got a track record to keep going.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.759
You know, it's not like, oh well, we'll surely eventually make it.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.440
I'm going like, yeah, absolutely you will.
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.079
But what I love, and this is the bit I think that's real important.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.759
So you've done all this, I've got your 20 years, you know, you made partner.
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.480
A lot of people would say, I'm at the top of the mountain.
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:04.799
Why do I want to climb the next one?
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.880
And that's what I think's amazing about you.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.039
That you go, I want to be good at that now.
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:17.680
I realise the bits of I'm happy with accounting knowledge, you're always going to top that up, but I want to be better at those bits there, which it is it's amazing.
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:22.480
I I want to be a good ambassador for for Menzies and for my office here.
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:23.119
Yeah.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.799
And to do that, I think I need to be a little bit more out there as well.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:33.839
And yeah, so to do that, I need to take myself out of my comfort zone and just keep doing it.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.319
And it's easy not to take yourself out, isn't it?
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.279
It would be sometimes more pleasant not to take myself out.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.720
Somebody that's good at that, but to do that, because they love doing that, and I'll just sit and support them.
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:52.079
But I'm so pleased that you've taken that because it's sh it it's life, and you if we do this, we we master something.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:57.759
Then when we look back at it, we go, I don't know, is a bit of you ever do you ever look back and go, Well, that was easy.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.920
I'm here, 20 years later, I'm here.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:06.000
It's I I enjoy my job, I love my job, and that makes that easy, you know.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.680
Bad days, good days.
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:13.839
Yeah, the because I enjoy my job, I enjoy my working with my clients, I enjoy working with my team.
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:22.400
It yeah, it it I I look back all the time and and see that it it generally is a happy I've had a really happy career.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:32.400
Yeah, I say so that's again helps me get through this moment where I know that I I need to be better at marketing, B D, yeah, all those sorts of things.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.720
And and I know that my what I do 90% of the time I enjoy doing.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:37.279
Yeah.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.880
So it's just the 10% that I I'm I'm I'm not so good at.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:42.400
Great way of thinking about it.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.960
Do the percentages and you go, that's not so bad.
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:45.839
That's manageable.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:46.319
I love that.
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.559
You've broken it down to that manageable bit.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:54.559
A couple of things before we I want to I want to move on to running because I know you're a big runner.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:58.400
I want to talk about that in a minute because I think it seems unrelated, but we'll come back to that.
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:02.640
What do you think changed when you made partner, not just the title, but how you saw yourself?
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.279
So you're now a partner in a top 20 accountsy firm.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.920
You s you find yourself as a partner in 2018.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.440
So, what changed how you saw yourself?
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:20.079
I saw myself as I had to I had to lead the team in a particular way.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:36.240
And I always wanted to promote the team in such a way that we or I always wanted to work with the team in such a way that if I ever turned around like to run into battle, who would be standing behind me?
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:37.680
That's good to me, that's good to me.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:43.119
And I'd like to think that I had 99% of the team to want to run down the hill behind me.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:48.559
And but I did that by you know, I've done all the jobs on the way through.
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.880
I'm not asking you to do something I wouldn't have done.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:58.799
Um so although I was a you know, I'm a partner and I was a partner, I'm not asking you to do something I wouldn't do myself or haven't done myself.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:25:59.119
Yeah.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:04.960
And and I think that the team saw that, knew that, yeah, and therefore followed.
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:05.440
Yeah.
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:11.920
And I saw therefore there that we could then push on together and we'd have something really great.
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:12.240
Yes.
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.200
So when I became partner, I could then look back and see that.
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:20.240
I'd actually see the team learning from that, going, okay, I'm he's done all the jobs on the way through.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:24.319
I can I can be like, I can do that job, I can be like him in the in the future.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:25.680
But that's but that sounds really bad.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:26.160
I don't want to.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.680
No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.279
I've got to say one of the things we talk about is attractive confidence and arrogant confidence.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:32.799
You've never been arrogant, confident.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.400
You've always been attractive, confident.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.000
You've always been you walk in the room.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.759
We know that you know what you're talking about.
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:44.000
Even if sometimes you probably thought, oh, I've just caught this out two seconds ago from God like it never comes across like that.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.720
So I'd say attractive because you don't come over like that.
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.519
Well, you haven't ever in the 20 years I've known you.
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:55.359
Do you think is there a different kind of confidence required as a partner versus a senior manager?
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:58.400
Was there any difference between those two, or was it the same?
00:26:58.400 --> 00:26:59.119
What was it?
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:06.400
I think as a partner, you you have to trust quite a lot in your team.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.559
And if you've trained them really well, that's hopefully not a problem.
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:11.119
Yeah.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:18.720
As a senior manager, you having that level of trust is going to be quite difficult because you maybe don't have that experience to be able to trust in the team.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.680
And I can certainly see that and maybe I didn't know it at the time, to be honest.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:37.200
I it I only probably can look back now and see that that you've got to, you know, in difficult client circumstances or difficult meetings with staff, you know, you're gonna as a partner, you've got to take the lead.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.279
And maybe previously that would be something I would be very, very shy at doing.
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:41.599
Yeah.
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:47.839
As a partner, it's expected, and you've you've got that's what you should be doing, you've got to do the right thing.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:59.920
And I've yeah, I've learned that that's that's the difference between a manager, a senior manager, and a partner is that the expectation is that you should do this and you can do this.
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:03.599
Yeah, yeah, sometimes you have to tell yourself you can do this.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:04.559
That's true.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:10.640
I think a lot of people recognise that we do sometimes we've got to do stuff and we go, I've got to do it.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.079
This is the right thing to do.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.839
This is me, I'm expected.
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:14.799
I guess.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:15.920
Yeah, definitely.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:29.279
Sometimes I'm just thinking about some of the folks I work with with you, maybe as a senior manager, sometimes they may, and this is maybe bad of me saying hide behind the rule of somebody above them that will take that flak or take that decision.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:30.880
It's it's very easy to do that.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:32.799
You're it, you're on point, you're it.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.599
Yeah, there's no one above you, it's you.
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:42.480
And also when it's your business, yeah, and it's your client and your practicing certificate that's at risk.
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:50.400
You you you you've got to it's different, you've got to lead, you've got to again, you've got to have be in control.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:50.720
Yeah.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:29:00.720
When you're a senior manager or a manager, you you they are diligent still, absolutely, but it doesn't have that risk attached to it quite as much as it does when you're when you're when you're aware of it.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.400
Huge difference.
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.599
I get that.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.160
I want to move on to one of my favourite things, which is the uh running.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:16.079
And I like to think I played a small part and then inspiring you to run when I was doing my running stint myself, but I won't go that far.
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.240
I think your brother was quite a big influence in that as well.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.480
And it's really talking about it does seem a bit unrelated, but I don't think it is, and here's why.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.799
But a decade ago, I remember you took up running and you stuck with it.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:34.960
It was park runs, and then you moved on to 10Ks, then half marathons, consistent in your training, I mean really passionate about it as well.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.119
What what got you started?
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.920
This is quite embarrassing.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:45.440
When I started, I I I felt I needed to lose some weight.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:46.160
Yeah.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.839
And but I didn't have the confidence to go and run on the road.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:50.960
Quite yeah.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:59.839
So I bought a treadmill, right, put it in my garage, and I pounded that treadmill four nights, five nights a week.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:00.400
Wow.
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:01.759
Until I lost some weight.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:02.079
Wow.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:05.839
Which I did because I was a little bit overweight.
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:12.640
And so I lost some some initial weight, which meant I was getting a bit, it was getting a bit easier on the treadmill.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.680
And then I had a conversation with my brother and sort of mentioned to him what I was doing.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:17.920
Yeah.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:19.440
And he said, Why don't you come out on the road?
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:23.119
And I said, I'm too embarrassed to come out and run on the road, people might see us.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.920
In the end, he talked me into it and we started running together on the road.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:28.480
Yeah.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:31.839
And it's so much different than running on a treadmill, as I'm sure you know.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:32.799
Much more fun.
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.359
Much more fun, but it does have uphills as well.
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:46.400
Um eventually we then started doing park run together, and we then obviously started going, you know, once you've done parkrun, you do normal 5Ks, you do 10ks, whole stuff.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:47.039
Let's do a 10.
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:47.599
Let's do a half.
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:48.640
Yeah, absolutely.
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.799
And and that and that's how I got into it.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:56.640
It was very much a case of I felt I wanted to, it was for for for for initial weight loss.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.119
Yeah.
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.880
But yeah, I was doing it in the garage.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.480
You got the bug, haven't you?
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.119
You definitely.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:06.640
I remember you getting that bug because I was like, wow, this is uh someone truly inspired by it.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:14.160
And it's I guess you've also got what the London to Brighton 27, is it?
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:14.960
Or is it more?
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.640
It's it's unfortunately more.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:18.960
It's London to Brighton is 100k.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.200
Jeez, and that's coming up in a week's time.
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:22.960
That's coming up in a week's time.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:29.839
Where when I got the training plan for that, yeah, I looked at it and said, that's not achievable.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:30.400
Yeah.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.559
I didn't think about whether the day was achievable.
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:35.279
I I just looked at the training plan and said that's not achievable.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.960
And I looked at that, you know, 15 weeks ago.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:43.359
And on week one, I'm just saying week 13 looks fairly horrific.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:45.839
That's that's I I cannot do that.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:46.240
Yeah.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.400
I cannot do that training.
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:53.279
It's six days, yeah, and it was going to be 125k for that week.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:32:01.519
Running a you know, running nearly 10k, 13k a day, and then on the Saturday running 15k and then on the Sunday running 45.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.000
Oh my god, I cannot do that.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.759
15 weeks ago.
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.559
Yeah.
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:08.720
I did it that week.
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.599
I did it.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.480
I ran from Hartford to Canary Wharf with my brother.
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:13.039
Good cool.
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:14.240
It was a fantastic sound.
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.440
I saw something on Facebook.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:16.960
I never put the two and two together.
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.359
That's what I saw you was doing Lee Valley wee sort of thing.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.880
Yeah, down the c down the river.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:21.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:27.359
And it was fantastic for for that week's block was was very, very heavy mileage.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:29.200
And we had such a great day.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:29.680
Yeah.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:38.319
And yeah, I it was amazing to think after I'd done that, was like you know, 15 weeks ago, a few weeks ago, I was thinking this this is just not achievable.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.480
And I'm now a week away.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:46.799
And I'm not gonna say it's gonna be easy, absolutely, but I'm looking at it thinking, can I finish it?
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:55.920
Yeah, time is not an issue, it's more about can I can I actually finish it in a in a in a fit state that I'll be able to actually walk over the line.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:08.079
At this moment in time I've got enough confidence to think that I can do it, but because I've done all the work, if I hadn't done all that work, yeah, I'd I'd there'd be no way I could do it.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:12.880
But you know, when I was at week one, looking forward, I thought absolutely no chance.
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:18.480
But I have dedicated myself to it, you know, gone out when I've when I've really not wanted to.
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:27.200
You know, my wife has been fantastic because she's printed off the plan and she's hassled me every day to tell me what I'm supposed to be doing tonight.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:28.880
10k tonight.
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.039
It's like, oh, I don't want to do it.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.240
Come on, out you go.
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:32.960
Let's do it.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:41.279
And she's been great, keeping me on track and you know, planning our our lives around it really to make sure that I had enough time to go out and do it.
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:50.720
So that's been fantastic, and you know, a week away now, kind of hoping that yeah, I'm uh I'm in tape, albeit that's it's still a 60k week this week.
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.519
Next week is a bit easier, but yeah.
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.799
Good grief.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:10.000
I think it's I mean, for me, Stuart, that it's the parallel of 20 years consistently showing up work, taking exams, going through the new learning, going through mergers, all that consistent stuff you've had to do for twenty now.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:17.199
We stuck the the reining on the the running on, sorry, for a decade, and you've done your part run, park run, 5k, 10k man.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:23.599
Now it's that and I I I'll be honest, I love that bit where you go 15 weeks ago, there was no way.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.599
But then last week you've done the big run, and it's like that's what I think for me.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:36.400
No message I've tried to put out about confidence is confidence is not you're not born with it, you gotta build it.
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:50.800
Now, for something like you're talking about, which is extreme and amazing to do a hundred K run, but the same principle applies whether I'm doing my first talk, you know, like again you're doing the talk, you're definitely stretching yourself in a minute.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:35:02.000
But when you do all that, when you whatever it is you want to do, if it's the smallest thing, like I wanna I'll give you something that a lot of people struggle with, I find, is talking up in a meeting when they've got maybe senior people like you in it.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:08.880
Just contributing, just saying what what's on their mind to go, I want to say this, but I d I feel nervous saying it.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:23.519
A small thing like that is the same principle as your 100k run where I might have to practice saying it and then say one thing and then by the end of three months or two months or whatever, I might feel confident speaking up in the meeting.
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:28.480
I ain't gonna go from one minute saying nothing to the next day contributing.
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:33.360
I'm gonna have to build it just like you built your run and just like you built your career, which is amazing.
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:44.239
I guess that you know what what I look at is you know, if you think of you back hitching at 17, then you sort of thinking I'm not bright enough to go to uni.
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.760
To you were a partner, a top 20 firm and running.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.880
I was gonna see half marathons, but hey, come on, ultras.
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:56.800
What do you think is it's changed in you or has anything changed?
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:58.079
Was it always there?
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.800
I was never a runner, right?
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.320
I was never a runner.
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:07.360
It was certainly not natural, it's been hard.
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:16.400
My running is is not anything but natural, it's hard work and I have to work at it a lot.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:33.760
My career, because I've enjoyed what I've done, as I said earlier, enjoying what you do, yeah, and learning and knowledge, it keeps you hungry to to keep developing yourself, to keep wanting to do the job that you're there to do.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:37.519
Yeah, and that's pushed me all the way through from from from the beginning.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah, and as you say, I'm I'm still relatively young, that I've still got a good 15-16 years that I'll I I want to do.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.800
Yeah, I I there's so much to learn.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:56.639
And accountancy is great in a sense of the budget keeps changing the rules every every year, which is great, it keeps us on our toes.
00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:06.000
Keeps you busy, and and and obviously quite a lot of rules change and things move and and technology changes the way we do things.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:20.559
It's about you know taking that, embracing it, using it, and and having knowledge gives you power, gives you confidence to to enjoy what you do, and that's certainly where I where I get my desire to carry on doing and pushing forward.
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:26.639
And now, even though I'm partner, I still want to be I want to be more to my clients, I want to be more to my team.
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.280
Yeah, it's amazing, it's brilliant.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:37.280
Is there anything you believed about confidence early on in your career that turned out to be wrong?
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:47.119
I don't think there was at the time when I was young, I don't think there was I probably didn't think about confidence very much.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.360
I just kind of felt I couldn't do that.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:55.440
And I didn't know why I didn't I I didn't know why I thought that other than I just don't think I can do it.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:04.239
The confidencing only probably came as I progressed in my career to to to be able to look back and say, Oh, it's probably because I lacked the confidence there.
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:06.639
It's probably something I couldn't articulate at the time.
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:16.480
Yeah, and so it's very difficult to I think that what that's seen to me is this bit where you go, I can't do that, and it's almost like yeah, I can't do it yet.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:30.800
But go forward to now and you you did put yourself in the uncomfortable position to try it, to try and learn that to to go out and do a 45 mile, it's 45 kilometre run, you know.
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.760
It's that's that's a big thing for me that you you keep pushing yourself and that's great.
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:36.400
Absolutely.
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:38.559
Because you want to learn, you want to build it.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:46.639
If there's somebody who is 17 designed between university and a different route, what would you want them to know?
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.079
Apprenticeship modelling models are great.
00:38:52.079 --> 00:39:06.559
You get to learn while you earn, yeah, and I and I think in this day and age that is a that is a great opportunity for people having experience is worth something, yeah.
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:14.960
And I think that some people are either academic or sometimes are practical, yeah.
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:23.519
And I and I I really do think that apprenticeships in that in that scenario is it for for the people who are slightly more practical, maybe than academics, I think it works really well.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.280
I can certainly say that I think I performed really well at work as a junior.
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:27.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:29.679
You know, I really got those cakes really well.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:43.519
Um but I was I was good enough at my job that when it came to doing the exams, because it was on a subject I enjoyed, yeah, they always make it that I could be academically quite bright as well, because I could pass those exams.
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:53.760
I do think that the that type of getting into work, learning the trade, you will learn so much more in the job, yeah.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:40:00.719
Maybe than you'll learn in in a s in the same period of time at a university or at A levels.
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:02.159
It's a good definition.
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.960
If you're practical, that's perhaps a route to go.
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:06.880
If you're academic, that's a route to.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.039
I don't think it's a one size fits all, isn't it?
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.119
That's probably what you've you've realized.
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:13.920
Imposter syndrome is a big thing.
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:20.800
I I hear a lot of people saying, you know, like, oh, I'm not sure I should be here, I'm doing this job and not just anyone going through that.
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:24.079
So imagine they've achieved things but they still feel like they don't belong.
00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:25.840
What would you tell them?
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:29.199
Talk to people.
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:29.920
Yeah.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:31.440
Talk to people.
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:39.199
There'll be others that are exactly the same, going through exactly the same pain or difficulty.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:41:06.960
I was very lucky that when the merger happened, I had a colleague who we are very similar, and he could see that I was thinking that even before I told him that I was because of the way I was maybe acting or behaving in a certain way, that maybe I was slightly closed off, maybe I was slightly not negative but slightly inward too much.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:07.599
Yeah.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.960
And he could see that, and he said, and he even said I'd never I'd never heard of imposter syndrome at that time.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:13.360
Yeah.
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:18.719
And he suggested it to me and said, You sound like you've got imp imposter syndrome.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:22.559
And I was I was like, maybe I have, yeah.
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:29.360
Because I could then see that I I'd never felt that I fit, I didn't think that I would fit, yeah.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:37.280
But I've worked really hard at working with my colleagues, getting to know them, yeah, speaking with colleagues, having my mentor has been fantastic.
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:50.000
Yeah, and having people to talk to, having people to work with, learning has been able to get me not out the other side, but has been able to get me closer to the other side.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:42:05.199
I'll still never feel that I'm you know necessarily good enough, but I I do certainly feel in a much better place, in a in a in a comfortable place, a confident enough place to be able to to to to be very happy.
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.280
Probably would still drive you.
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:08.159
Probably does.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:13.280
And I want to I want to be more, I want to learn more, and I think that's a lot of folks will be going through the same.
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:19.760
You know, it's like I think that what strikes me about the conversation we've had, the thread of it is consistency.
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:28.639
Twenty years at one firm, a decade of running, the willingness to show up, keep going, and trust that the work compounds over time.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:29.840
That's a big thing.
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:39.360
And I think one of the things I've noticed about you is you you didn't have the traditional credentials, you didn't take a fast route, you took the long route and you're still on it.
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:43.519
I've watched your progression from across the table for nearly 20 years.
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:51.840
What I've seen is proof that confidence isn't it's not where you start or what qualification you have on paper, it's about what you do with the years you've given.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:43:01.679
And for anyone listening who's on a long road, who's wondering if the consistent effort is worth it, if the challenge is worth it, if the continuous want to learn is worth it.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.880
This is what it looks like when you stay the course.
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:09.440
Stuart, thank you so much for sharing that and being for so open with us as well.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.880
Really appreciate it and keep being an accountant.
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.199
Thanks very much.