FLASHBACK: Jimmy Snow vs Jay Dyer Debate Esoteric Hollywood

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:04.200
Okay, so let me let me try to, at real
2
00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:08.279
quickly introduce these guys somewhat formally so that you guys
3
00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.679
can know what they're.
4
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:11.560
Doing and where they come from.
5
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:17.000
We'll start with Jay from Jay's Analysis, and he has
6
00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.399
grown to become one of the premier film and philosophy
7
00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.160
sites on the net, showcasing the talents of Jay Dyer,
8
00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:28.920
who's graduate focused on the interplay of film, geopolitics, espionage,
9
00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.159
and psychological warfare. Jay is a public speaker, lecturer, comedian,
10
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:38.399
and author of the popular title Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults
11
00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.560
and Symbols in Film, which made it to Amazon's number
12
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:44.280
one spot its first month of release in the Film
13
00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:50.039
and Hollywood category. Jay, thank you very much for joining us.
14
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.240
I'm gonna go ahead and introduce mister adies real quickly.
15
00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:54.399
Then we want to come back to you and let
16
00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.000
you talk about your channel and just kind of introduce
17
00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:00.759
you a little bit further from there, and let me
18
00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.840
switch over to mister Atheist, who is an ex Mormon
19
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.400
and a content creator here on YouTube. His show, Dear
20
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:13.599
Mister Atheist, answers the questions atheists are frequently asked. He
21
00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:19.079
also has a mini series called What's wrong with Mormonism.
22
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:24.560
Mister atheists, you've been making the round. How are you today?
23
00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:23.560
So?
24
00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.480
Yeah, man, it's been crazy sort short amount of time,
25
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.799
and I feel like the prettiest girl of the dance
26
00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:30.079
I do.
27
00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:38.799
We just passed him around. That's a.
28
00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:42.239
Okay, Jay, let's switch over to you kind of introduce
29
00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.079
yourself to people who aren't familiar with you and your
30
00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:46.680
channel and whatever.
31
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.680
Else you think we need to know before we get
32
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:50.400
into the meat of this.
33
00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:53.680
Yeah, after the book.
34
00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.400
Well, I'll mention that my grad work was on what
35
00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.079
you mentioned, but I also did another degree in philosophy
36
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.519
and history, and my grad work is also my master's
37
00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.000
thesis is what you what you talked about, psychological warfare.
38
00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.280
But my my graduate thesis itself is actually my master's
39
00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.159
work is actually in philosophy and lit. So there's a
40
00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.560
whole broad variety of there of what I've studied. But
41
00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.080
I'm pure reviewed, academically published.
42
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.120
I have a.
43
00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.719
Second book in the work, which will be the sequel
44
00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:28.719
to the first book. Hollywood Decoded is also the basis
45
00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.919
of a full production TV show, or my book is
46
00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:34.840
the basis for the full production TV show Hollywood Decoded.
47
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.319
I'm also now the co host of Orski Live with
48
00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:39.039
Andy Worski.
49
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:40.919
And you've seen.
50
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.479
Me probably in a lot of YouTube debates with Richard Spencer,
51
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:48.879
with JF. Gary Epp and other atheists and thinkers. And yeah,
52
00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.360
so that's what I do. Got another TV show in
53
00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:54.520
the works, that's we're shooting the pilot pretty soon. And
54
00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.719
that's all I can think of. There's bugs in here.
55
00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.280
Excellent, that's quite a bit. That's quite an aggressive.
56
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:02.680
Resume.
57
00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.159
I will say a philosophy.
58
00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.840
Yeah, I saw it, as you said, philosophy.
59
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.680
I saw Steve Boning over there.
60
00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.240
I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get.
61
00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:17.240
To that's like, we don't need them. We don't need them.
62
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:20.360
Go ahead, say thank to you, sir.
63
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.240
Everyone calls me Jimmy, and that's fine. There's no need
64
00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:26.960
for a more formal mister, Atheists. My CV is nowhere
65
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:31.960
near as impressive content creator that came on the scene
66
00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:36.919
about four months ago. The production values were what set
67
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:38.840
me apart, but are entirely because it's what I do
68
00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.439
for my day job. Also, and as you mentioned, I
69
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.000
answered the questions that atheists are posed over and over again.
70
00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.479
I do come from a Mormon background. I left Mormonism
71
00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.400
in my early twenties, as a result of really observing Mormonism,
72
00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:56.439
made my way past Mormonism slightly into Christianity, a little
73
00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.919
bit of Deism, and then all the way out to atheism,
74
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.240
more agnostic or philosophical agnosticism, as Steve would prefer.
75
00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.960
I clarify, and I.
76
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.560
Also am writing a book called Esoteric Esoteric Hollywood, which
77
00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.560
the thesis is that Jay is a member of the
78
00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.439
Illuminati and is only written the first book to cover
79
00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:18.040
what the Illuminati is really up to.
80
00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:23.439
Yeah, and this would be clipped out as proof right here.
81
00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.920
If you do that, you know what just happened right there?
82
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:33.800
The digital Christian just spassed out when we did that.
83
00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:35.959
He puts me on his channel.
84
00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.079
I hope he exposes me and then I'll get a
85
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:39.600
whole bunch of traffic that will work fine for me.
86
00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:42.360
But yeah, to.
87
00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.040
Mario still has a channel that's relevant.
88
00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:50.839
Okay, go ahead, Jay, Well, I'm just gonna say real quick.
89
00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:52.399
Uh. I forgot to mention too.
90
00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:56.360
I do represent Orthodox Christianity, so I'll be distinct from
91
00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.399
Roman Catholicism and Protestantism in my my approach and and
92
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.879
my belief in apologetics is that I actually have a
93
00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:06.399
distinct we have a distinct approach to that as well,
94
00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.879
So it's not going to be rehashed Thomas Aquinas or
95
00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.279
rehashed you know evangelical stuff.
96
00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:14.000
Awesome.
97
00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.720
Yeah, Actually, can I ask, then, in relation to that question,
98
00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.720
what your position on in relation to the Catholic churches,
99
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.000
because this is relevant for some of the stuff down
100
00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:24.360
the way.
101
00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.360
Well, I was Catholic for a long time, about ten
102
00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.319
years before I got into Orthodoxy, so I was a hardcore,
103
00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:37.160
committed fan of Aquinas very much Atomas. I attended the
104
00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:41.560
Latin Mass pretty voraciously, pretty consistently.
105
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.839
So yeah, Orthodoxy.
106
00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.279
Is, you know, a completely distinct communion and completely distinct church.
107
00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:49.519
Certainly it shares a lot of similarities with the first
108
00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.399
thousand years of the Church, but of course in the
109
00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:56.519
second millennia they split and go their separate ways. So
110
00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.360
we're kind of in ways similar to Protestant and then
111
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:02.879
in other ways similar to Catholic, depending on what the
112
00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.639
focus is. But but we do not believe that Romanism
113
00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:08.279
is the right religion.
114
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.680
Any any particular or special ill will towards them over others. I,
115
00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.920
for example, certainly target Mormonism more than any others on
116
00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.000
my channel because it's specifically what I came from and
117
00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.759
find the most fun to attack.
118
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.839
But that's people had debated Nick Fuintis over this, and
119
00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.399
he and I have had a pretty heated Catholic Orthodox debate,
120
00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.560
and only because Roman Catholics seem to get so mad
121
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:37.639
and they're the only the only people that have like
122
00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.959
flagged my channel and got me banned for on Twitter
123
00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.120
are are Roman Catholics, So that that is part of
124
00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.759
the reason why there's a lot of ferocity.
125
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.879
So as an Orthodox Catholic, is there any any Vatican
126
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.800
interaction at all?
127
00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:55.879
Or is it entirely devoid of the Vatican.
128
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:02.199
Yeah, Orthodoxy among other things split over in ten fifty four.
129
00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.160
Roughly they split over the question of the role of
130
00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.600
the pope. So we see all bishops as equal. We
131
00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:13.519
believe in the ecumenical the council view of the Church,
132
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.079
not in the idea of papal infallibility or papal ex cathedral.
133
00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.519
So that's one of the key central aspects of what
134
00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.680
we differ over. But then we also differ over the
135
00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:24.680
nature of Christ and who God is, how we know God,
136
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.519
how we experience God. Everything ends up being different.
137
00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.399
Is sorry, am I derailing things?
138
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:31.560
Is this?
139
00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.639
How did you want? Is this okay?
140
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:33.839
Now?
141
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:36.000
Okay, this is fine?
142
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.079
Whenever you my phone, whenever you get ready, I'll I'll
143
00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:43.680
just for the first question out, but if you need context.
144
00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:44.920
Go for yeah.
145
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.560
So for the last question, I guess is yeah, go ahead.
146
00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.560
Well my question is just about the process. So are
147
00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.160
we going to jump right into and I don't care
148
00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.800
either way, but are we going to talk about I
149
00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:59.079
think you titled it what like like Hollywood occultism or
150
00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.040
Hollywood or are we going to do that or.
151
00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:06.519
All of my act questions have to do with your book?
152
00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:07.279
Yeah?
153
00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:10.160
Yeah, Basically all of what's gonna happen is he's going
154
00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:11.759
to get the context that he needs.
155
00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:13.279
And then what we do here is we.
156
00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.360
Don't like they're not rigid structured debates where it's you know,
157
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.480
you get this time, he gets this time. We kind
158
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.800
of like to have a free flowing kind of conversation
159
00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:23.839
because you get more out of it.
160
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.639
So we're going to focus on the symbolism.
161
00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.079
What once he gets like what he needs context, I'm
162
00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:31.720
gonna throw it to you and let you kind of
163
00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.879
put out the premise with what your books about and
164
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.879
kind of what you're, what you're you're claiming and all that.
165
00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:41.000
Yeah, I mean, and yeah, even my first question is
166
00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.399
largely related to to what you just stated. All all
167
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.759
of my questions that follow, while they may deviate from
168
00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.759
the pages here and there, it's yeah, it's all related
169
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:50.200
to the book.
170
00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:52.159
I am curious whether or not.
171
00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.879
And this is just pure curiosity, not about to start
172
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.440
a fight with Orthodoxy.
173
00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:57.559
Are they Young Earth.
174
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.440
Or are they or does it vary like with Moremanism,
175
00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.840
They're they're younger Mormons and naturalist Mormons who just believe
176
00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:06.799
in occasional intervention.
177
00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.120
There are plenty of Orthodox who do accept evolution in
178
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.960
both micro macro senses. There are pretty plenty of Orthodox
179
00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.919
who accept Old and Young Earth. So for us, it's
180
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.480
not typically something that's dogmatic. Although I do believe in creation,
181
00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:27.639
so I tend to argue against a.
182
00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.480
Big scale evolution, and.
183
00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.200
That that part I knew. I was just curious if,
184
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:34.200
as you talked.
185
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.000
About, I don't I don't have a dogmatic Yeah, I
186
00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.200
don't have a dogmatic nor do I have a dogmatic
187
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.960
argument about the specific age per se of.
188
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.399
The Okay, cool, cool, Okay, that's I think. That's all
189
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.200
I mean a good moment.
190
00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:53.159
You're good and one more little side that I think
191
00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.360
it's it should be put out there because it's to me.
192
00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:00.399
It was epic and it was just it was just
193
00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:01.000
a sweet thing.
194
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.840
Uh, with you and Richard Spencer when you you guys debated.
195
00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:08.399
Can you tell people what the what you guys debated over?
196
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.720
I mean, there's a few, but.
197
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.399
I know which one you're asking about, so because he's
198
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:15.840
done it a few times, so I'll tell Jay he's
199
00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:19.759
asking specifically about which political party Jesus would have been
200
00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.960
a part of, And yeah, if that helps give a
201
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:23.960
hint toward which.
202
00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:27.600
You guys cut out for a second.
203
00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.440
But but the question was what what political party would
204
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.200
Jesus be Yeah, So he was.
205
00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.960
Asking you about your Richard Spencer debate, and I was saying,
206
00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.159
I know which one he's specifically asking about, and it
207
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:44.000
had to do with political parties. So I was just
208
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.639
trying to give you the context before you answer, because
209
00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:48.679
I know you've done other debates with him, So which
210
00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:49.720
specific debate is before?
211
00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:54.759
I thought it was a great premise. It was if Jesus.
212
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:55.200
Was all right or not?
213
00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:00.720
Would be all right? How well?
214
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:01.399
How was he?
215
00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.679
Uh? As far as somebody that you know, because he's
216
00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:05.639
a controversial figure.
217
00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:11.240
Was that a decision that you kind of made lightly
218
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.960
or did you get he kind of backlash from you know,
219
00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.559
entertaining having a debate with somebody like that.
220
00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.799
I'm just curious. It seems like you'd get some flat
221
00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:22.120
for that.
222
00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:29.399
Maybe minimal, but uh, you know, I I think pretty
223
00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.519
clearly distinguished my positions from his. So you know, I mean,
224
00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.279
Richard debates black He debates black checks on on YouTube,
225
00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.720
so you know, he debates all kinds of people.
226
00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.440
Uh, you know, he debates Jewish guys.
227
00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.960
I only bring that up because we just announced yesterday
228
00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.639
about Sargon coming on in bar Gone.
229
00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:51.279
For some people, you.
230
00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:52.519
Would have thought the world ended.
231
00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.240
Uh you know, you get those people who could out there.
232
00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.240
I can't believe you're giving something like that a platform.
233
00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.639
And I just wondered if you got the same thing
234
00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.919
with with a somebody Richard Spencer, I mean very.
235
00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:10.039
Nonmal I mean, I mean there was some criticism, but
236
00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.480
really it was it was hosted app based Baked Alaska's channel.
237
00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.519
It wasn't my channel, And you know.
238
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.919
The question and the weird thing was that originally it
239
00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:19.720
was supposed to be a debate, and then the day
240
00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.240
before Richard said, would let's just have an.
241
00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.519
A conversation and I was like, well, you already agreed to.
242
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.200
A debate, so and so then we we we agreed
243
00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:31.039
on something in between.
244
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:32.360
We called it an exchange.
245
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.000
But I think James also in Baked Alaska, is still
246
00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.159
called it a debate, which is fine with me, and
247
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.080
that's what it was supposed to.
248
00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.759
Be, but not really. Not many people in me flack
249
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:42.159
over it.
250
00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:47.000
But I generally use the three words interchangeably if I'm
251
00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.879
coming on with anybody I disagree with.
252
00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.399
Debate, exchange or discussion.
253
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:53.960
Yeah, they're change.
254
00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.440
So let's get to discussion.
255
00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.080
I'm gonna let Jay kind of explaining what his books
256
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.080
about and the premise that he's coming from, and then
257
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.759
this atheist you can once he gets finished, ask whatever
258
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:10.639
question that you have. The only thing that I asked guys,
259
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:12.879
is that you don't talk over each other so that
260
00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:17.000
the people who are listening can understand and get your
261
00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.320
entire thoughts out. So that's the only rule. Just don't
262
00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.799
talk over each other and let each other finish out
263
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.120
your faults and we'll have a good conversation.
264
00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.600
All right, Jay, Well, basically The book is just a
265
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.759
reflection of an interest that I have for a long
266
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.679
time in film. Around age eighteen, I was interested in
267
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.159
acting and I wrote a stand up routine.
268
00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.200
I did stand up here and there on the side,
269
00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:40.799
just for fun.
270
00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:44.720
And then when I went into university, I started studying
271
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.360
a lot of history, looked at the geopolitics. It was
272
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:51.480
also getting into conspiracy topics online, mainly for fun, and
273
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.519
I started noticing that a lot of the plots of
274
00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:57.159
films really were conspiratorial, and a lot of times the
275
00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.440
authors of both screenplays and people who were and say
276
00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.679
intelligence had a lot of crossover. And then as I
277
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.120
researched this for grad work, I noticed that there was
278
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.320
a lot there that I thought was initially would have
279
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:14.200
thought was absurd, the idea that the Pentagon or the
280
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.759
CIA has a lot to do with telling Hollywood how
281
00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:20.399
to craft films, what messages to put into films.
282
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.039
So I thought that would be an interesting subject.
283
00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.840
Matter to pursue at a graduate level and do a
284
00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:28.840
thesis on. And so I had to pick something a
285
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.080
little more narrow, and I chose Ian Fleming his life
286
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.519
and of course he's the creator of James Bond. If
287
00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:38.039
you're not familiar, and the way that the films were
288
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.600
used as kind of Western CIA propaganda, British intelligence propaganda
289
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:42.919
in the.
290
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:47.200
Cold War especially. So what you see is that a lot.
291
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:51.399
Of Ian Fleming's own personal exploits in Black Ops actually
292
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:56.360
became a subtle undercurrent for what's in most of the
293
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.600
Bond stories, and there's a kernel at least of truth.
294
00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:00.919
You know, Flemings fans were saying everything I write his
295
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.960
President in truth, and certainly they're fiction stories, but they
296
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.080
also include hermetic and alchemical and occultic themes. I think
297
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.799
that Fleming spiced his novel up with those ideas. So
298
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.240
that became the seed for the book that I wrote,
299
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.080
which focused on mainly big directors. So I looked at
300
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:23.919
the first eighty pages or Kubrick films Eyes, White Shirt
301
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.480
Shining two thousand and one, then about eighty pages or
302
00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.440
so of Spielberg and H. G.
303
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.639
Wells, and how HG.
304
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.320
Wells was actually a master propagandist as well as a
305
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:39.440
science fiction author. So I went pretty deep into the
306
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:44.080
metaphysics and the philosophy of film and how it conveys
307
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.480
meaning to us at different levels. So this is a
308
00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.039
question of in philosophy, what's called semiotics. So I go
309
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.960
into the semiotics of film some and then I went
310
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.480
into a section, as I said, on Bond, and then
311
00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:00.559
a section a little bit on Hitchcock and his presentation
312
00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.960
and how he actually worked with British intelligence, how different
313
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.000
outfits studied Hitchcock films for their psychological value as it
314
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.399
would be useful in terms of propaganda.
315
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.320
So what the book does.
316
00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:19.159
It operates on multiple levels, analyzing imagery and analyzing narratives,
317
00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:25.600
analyzing contexts, directors, and all of that in relationship to
318
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.759
real world geopolitics, real world history, and real world conspiracies
319
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.080
as far as I could verify them. So it's four
320
00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.320
hundred and four footnotes, three hundred and sixty three pages.
321
00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.159
Anybody who does grad research and does if you're a
322
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.480
research assistant, you'll have to do a lot of footnoting.
323
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.360
So I'm very pretty anal retentive about footnoting. So I
324
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.279
try to source everything as well and as best as
325
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:50.960
I can, hence the library behind me.
326
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:52.200
So that's what the book is.
327
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.759
It's an analysis of the big directors in their films
328
00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.600
in terms of all of those levels.
329
00:16:59.399 --> 00:16:59.759
I see.
330
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:01.080
I see Steed in the corner.
331
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.680
Every time you you make a philosophical.
332
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:07.000
Philosophical word.
333
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:14.079
What I like philosophy? Why is that so bad? See
334
00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:16.240
the crap? You see this?
335
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.319
Yeah, if you do a philosophy degree, I mean, you know,
336
00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.799
the dumb joke always heard when I was doing grad
337
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:27.920
school was oor the philosophy, Uh, factories hiring.
338
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.720
When you get out. So you know, I mean you're
339
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.400
pretty limited.
340
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:32.359
You can either go on and get the pH d
341
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.759
and try to teach, or you can do what I do,
342
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.759
and you know, go out there and write books and
343
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:38.839
and do what I do in philosophy.
344
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.319
You have to wonder did you really get your degree?
345
00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:47.400
Or not to get to my degree? You did you
346
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:47.680
get that?
347
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:48.400
Good?
348
00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.759
Yeah, I'm coming around, okay, straight?
349
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:54.160
Yeah.
350
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.119
Hello, So I'm gonna treat this more as the hard
351
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.079
start with the the hello to Well.
352
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.440
First of all, thank you Jay for agreeing to come on.
353
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.319
I think it's commendable anybody who has opinions that are
354
00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.759
obviously I mean, you acknowledge that you are trying to
355
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:11.640
expose conspiracies or I hope I'm not doing you this
356
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.039
service and saying that, And so that's going to be
357
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.200
a polarizing issue. And I think it's cool that you're
358
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.799
willing to come on have your claims be investigated.
359
00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:21.880
In or criticized. I think that's awesome.
360
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.680
I don't mean this to be patronizing. I genuinely mean
361
00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.519
well done in congratulations on both getting a book written
362
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.960
and published and on the Amazon number one for its category.
363
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.039
I don't mean that to be like a take.
364
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.920
It any that's awesome and it's much more than I've done.
365
00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.240
Maybe I mean this compliment to be this comment to
366
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.799
be a slightly patronizing. I can say that of all
367
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.480
the books I've ever read, this one is certainly the
368
00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:47.960
most recent.
369
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.000
That was my joke for the day. Okay, So the
370
00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:53.359
question I actually.
371
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.279
Want to start out with is, in reading your book,
372
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.559
it seems like you and correct me if I'm wrong,
373
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.359
but it's mean like you believe there is an actual
374
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:08.319
underground cult behind Hollywood. But in addition, there are times
375
00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.720
in your book where you seem to talk about different
376
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.319
and separate cults Darwinian cult, Stockanism cults, which maybe those
377
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.599
are the same one. So I'm actually curious to know,
378
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.160
before we get too deep into the details of the book,
379
00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.920
just how many underground cults are at work in your
380
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:28.799
view as far as and that have a significant influence
381
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.440
on population and.
382
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.960
Via whatever pop culture or anything.
383
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:34.799
Right.
384
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.960
Well, now, in the world of Hollywood, there are multiple
385
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.319
cults that are pretty well known as having a degree
386
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.559
of influence and a well known Hollywood retinue, right, So,
387
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.240
I mean, we can think of Scientology and all the
388
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.240
high level Hollywood people who've been involved in scientology. We
389
00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.400
can think of the Nexium cult recently that was in
390
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.039
the news with the Alison Mack and Keith Rinair stories
391
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.440
of sex trafficking.
392
00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.799
We can think of the Children.
393
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.119
Of God col Moses Berg, who was pedophile connected to
394
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.400
Hollywood people who you know, this is where we get
395
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.599
Rose McGowan, the Phoenix family, River Phoenix and so forth.
396
00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:11.359
They come out of the Children of God cult.
397
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.759
So I mean, the Oto has obviously a quite.
398
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.960
A few adherents in Hollywood.
399
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.079
Cabbalism and the Cobbolah, quite a few people have been
400
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.480
influenced by that in Hollywood.
401
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:24.480
People like Rosenne talk about it pretty openly.
402
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.839
So I wouldn't be so absurd as to say that
403
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.640
there's there's only one cult. But if we were to
404
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.359
come up with the idea of one overwriting cult in Hollywood,
405
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.039
it would be actually the CIA, and the CIA is
406
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.960
actually treated as a as a cult, and this goes
407
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.079
into the history of intelligence agencies and how cults operate.
408
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.799
So I'm not saying that every person in the CIA
409
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.400
or in his history literally isn't a cultist or a Luciferian.
410
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.720
But if you look at the history of Skull and Bones,
411
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.519
the way it was set up, which is where the
412
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.039
CIA comes from, Yale, Harvard and so.
413
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.759
Forth, they do have a very occult aspect to them.
414
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.680
And for me, regardless of whether you believe in anything supernatural,
415
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.920
really is just a question of trafficking in secrets, in
416
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.839
secret information.
417
00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:13.799
So what we see in Hollywood is no different. We
418
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:14.440
see a lot of.
419
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.559
People who are high profile who can be blackmailed. This
420
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.000
actually just came out with Hattie Flies today. She was
421
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:25.119
admitting that how much of her Black Book was so important,
422
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:31.920
and famous whistleblowers and people from prostitution and prominent madam
423
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:37.759
positions have talked about how their work is used as blackmail,
424
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.079
like Henry Vinson Confessions of a DC Madam at Deborah
425
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.640
Parfrey and so forth, and they actually tie into at times,
426
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.240
not always, but at times cults like the Franklin cover up,
427
00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.519
So there will be a I think you'll notice if
428
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.279
you research system definitely that a lot of these networks
429
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.119
will connect together. So I'm not saying that everybody in
430
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.240
Hollywood is run by a cult or that the all
431
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.279
put through the same brainwashing. But at the top of
432
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.119
a lot of these groups, you'll you'll find a lot
433
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:09.200
of collusion. Uh And ultimately I would say that the
434
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.680
Pentagon and the CIA do have a tremendous amount of
435
00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:13.640
influence in Hollywood.
436
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.160
I can't hear the word collusion without wanting to do
437
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.119
my Trump impression.
438
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.160
There was new.
439
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:26.160
Collusion, but then the huge, huge, new, absolutely new collusion.
440
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:27.960
Words.
441
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:29.039
There you go.
442
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:31.200
I new where it's the best words. And now I'm
443
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:32.039
actually trying.
444
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:35.119
To think you two of my favorite guests that we've had.
445
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.960
I'm loving this. That's good. That's good.
446
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.759
So uh so with the Number one cult, and again,
447
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.160
I'm never let me straw man. I'll even let you
448
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.519
interrupt me to prevent a straw man, even though that
449
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.480
was the big rule with the Number one cult, or
450
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.799
at least the thing being linked altogether, this being the CIA.
451
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.240
I guess the concern I have and the wonder I
452
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.880
have after reading your book is uh, Well, would you
453
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.799
say first of all that the book is meant to
454
00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.480
expose that idea that the underlying linking.
455
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:07.519
If there has to be a number one cult, it's
456
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.000
the CIA, or is there a specific cult you would
457
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.359
say your book is trying to reveal or just the
458
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.519
idea that occultism is alive and well in Hollywood.
459
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.119
Well, like I said, like so sometimes you'll have something
460
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.839
like the OTO, which has a lot of adherence in
461
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.599
Hollywood and high level finance and things like that.
462
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.440
I'm not saying that everybody in that group is part.
463
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.759
Of the exact same you know, I get that a gender, right,
464
00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:36.920
But there are people who do intelligence work who are
465
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:40.119
and have written many books on how to manipulate and
466
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.839
use cults. There are a lot of white papers that
467
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.079
have been written on how to manipulate and use cults
468
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.359
as even an experiment at times. So the purpose might
469
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.720
be different in different cases. But yeah, I would say
470
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:56.039
overall it's easily And I understand the skepticism because when
471
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.599
I first came into studying this question in my undergrad
472
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.200
I thought, if somebody had said the CIA in Hollywood
473
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.279
have flipped side of the same coin back then when
474
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.559
I was like twenty two or three.
475
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:06.720
I would have thought that was crazy.
476
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.039
But after spending a lot of time in that and
477
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.839
looking at a lot of other academics who've actually backed
478
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:16.440
this up with their research, it's like, yeah, that's obvious
479
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:18.000
to me now, right, this is why.
480
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:18.680
They're so there.
481
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.680
And if you look at the history of intelligence operations,
482
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.240
you can find so many famous people who did intelligence
483
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.000
work on the side, who were intelligence assets, like Jimmy
484
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.799
Stewart or Carry Grant. Julia Child worked for the OSS.
485
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.720
This is fairly prominent, right. Coco Chanel was a famous spy.
486
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.160
So all these people did this kind of on the
487
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.119
side at times. So it's not that everything is necessarily
488
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.799
under the religious aspect of a cult. As if, like
489
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.400
the CIA handler thinks, oh, everyone under me is under
490
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.119
my religious hand, they can just be under him in
491
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.480
a manipulative sense. He could just have dirt on them.
492
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.759
It doesn't have to be religious in every time or
493
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.799
every case. But also, I was writing my book for
494
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.119
a pop audience. It's not just written for an academic audience.
495
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:04.759
If you write something just academic, you're not going to
496
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.359
sell a lot of books. So it had to be
497
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.200
kind of also written in the language of pop culture.
498
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.759
So at times, yeah, I'll talk about something like the Illuminati.
499
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.039
I don't have a problem talking about that, because while
500
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.920
there are many groups that embody the idea of the
501
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:22.680
Illuminati today, there actually is a historical Illuminati that you
502
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.799
can trace academically and historically in a lot of main,
503
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:26.960
mainline history books.
504
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:29.640
Juliet Child's.
505
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:32.519
And perhaps.
506
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.839
She was in the osays.
507
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:38.720
So, and perhaps this is.
508
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:40.799
Where our first point of conflict is going to come,
509
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.519
because what I'm understanding is I read this book and
510
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.039
I'm trying to figure out who exactly it's exposing, and
511
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.880
that's it's not actually easy to directly come up with that,
512
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.160
And I certainly wouldn't have come out with that theme
513
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.599
of if there is a connecting entity to expose, it
514
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.799
would be the CIA. What I see is a book
515
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.880
that at in much in a conspiratorial way, looks to
516
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:06.920
all of these things and says, ah, if you look
517
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.720
through this lens, this becomes obvious if you look through
518
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.119
this lens. In fact, somewhere toward the beginning of the book,
519
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.400
you even suggest I'm going to teach you how to
520
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:16.200
watch it the way I watch it, And then it'll
521
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.000
become obvious.
522
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:19.400
But when I see somebody actually.
523
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:26.000
Expose a cult, expose scientology, I see money followed, I
524
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.640
see family lineage to some degree followed less important. But
525
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.240
people are naming names and following the following them. I
526
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:38.759
mean even even in non cult exposition. Or John Oliver
527
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.400
is like my favorite person who exposes things more that
528
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.920
we just didn't realize was going on than was necessarily
529
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:44.759
a giant secret.
530
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.079
And that's the tactic he takes. He names names, and
531
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.039
he follows the money.
532
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.440
And while there is some name naming, it's then dependent
533
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.200
upon what if after he got done doing this work
534
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:58.160
around the time that the moon landing was supposed to
535
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:02.559
be happening and NASA had act sess to these Hollywood
536
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.119
sound studios. It almost seems like the leap then is
537
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.759
what if when he supposedly was done all of that,
538
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.359
he wasn't actually done. That's I guess one of my
539
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.759
primary conflicts with the book. It's a little too much
540
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.799
of a confirmation bias masturbatory aid.
541
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.039
If I may be crass, it's a.
542
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.480
Here's how to look at it, and now if you
543
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.519
look at it, look how obvious it becomes.
544
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.119
Right, Well, let me let's take you. Let's take it
545
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:31.759
through some specific examples.
546
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.880
So let's take Kubrick and I don't say, by the way,
547
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.599
I don't make the claim that Kubrick filmed the moonlandings.
548
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:38.720
So that's not in my book.
549
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.400
Yeah, but it's right. But it's verifiable that Kubrick did
550
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.400
work with NASA. That can easily be verified. He worked
551
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.559
with Muler of NASA because they really liked the way
552
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.960
he shot things, and they wanted to share insight and
553
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.160
information on how to do film work because obviously NASA
554
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.759
is interested in camera work too, right, So whatever anybody's
555
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.319
onions of the moon landing are, it's very easy to
556
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.759
verify that Kubrick collaborated with NASA. Now, again, I'm not
557
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.920
saying that that means anything beyond that.
558
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.000
That's I'm just saying.
559
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:14.240
That's one example where you do see a clear working together. Now,
560
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.119
let me say on the claim that intelligence agencies operate
561
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.680
like a cult. Okay, that has been written about by
562
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:25.079
many people in a mainline academic way.
563
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.559
So one book on that is called Cloak and Gown
564
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:28.599
by Robin Winks.
565
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.880
This is a famous work on the history of intelligence agencies,
566
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.799
and it's specifically the history of the CIA operating like
567
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.119
a cult. Right, So I don't really care whether a
568
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.519
person believes in the CIA being a cultic or not.
569
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.559
The main point is that they operate like a cult.
570
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:47.960
And when it comes to the way that so many
571
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.759
people in Hollywood, especially during the Cold War, were recruited
572
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:56.480
into working for the FBI, Jimmy Stewart was a famous
573
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.880
FBI asset even may he even made movies in tan
574
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.880
them with j Edgar Hoover. Is a famous movie called
575
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.000
The FBI Story, and Jimmy Stewart's like playing all these
576
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.640
different roles without throughout human history.
577
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.480
As the FBI. Jimmy starts the hero America and the FBI.
578
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.079
Right, So you can just watch that movie and you see, right,
579
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.640
they're a clear example of that kind of a collusion
580
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.160
during the Cold War. And so I understand that these
581
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.559
are a lot of different specific examples, But what I'm
582
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.640
saying is that when you go to something like the
583
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.359
academic work, whereas it I've got it here with.
584
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:35.039
Me operation Hollywood.
585
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.119
Yeah, let me show you this book. So when I
586
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:42.960
started looking at the question from an academic perspective, and
587
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.960
this is all people from various universities who study.
588
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.519
The same stuff I do. And this is put out
589
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.920
by David Robb and what they.
590
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.559
Do is basically go through the last several decades of
591
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.400
Hollywood's revisions of scripts. So this is at a very
592
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.279
kind of base, not conspiratorial, just an academic look at
593
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.920
the different times of the Pentagon told movies. No, you
594
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.839
can't do this if you want to use our aircraft
595
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:10.799
carrier in the background, if you want to use our tanks,
596
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.039
you got to do this. Oh we want this tweaked
597
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:17.160
here because this doesn't portray America right in this Cold
598
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.839
War setting.
599
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.200
Blah blah blah. Countless examples. There's probably seventy.
600
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.200
Eighty movies that they go through in this text, written
601
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.480
by multiple scholars. Another thing I would say that that
602
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.079
sort of backs up one side of this thesis is
603
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:32.079
the famous book.
604
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:36.039
This is put out by University of Texas professor Tricia Jenkins.
605
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.960
Book The CIA in Hollywood. It's pretty expensive on Amazon.
606
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:41.319
That's because it's like her PhD. Yeah, I think it's
607
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.640
her PhD thesis, And she does the same thing. She
608
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:47.920
goes through the history of how many times, especially in
609
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:49.960
more recent times. So she for example, there's a whole
610
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:56.519
chapter on jj Abrams and who's the chick from Alias,
611
00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.960
Jennifer Garner, you know, working together to consult with the
612
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:05.440
CIA on the film the series Alias. And so when
613
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.119
you start to look at like Chase Brandon Milt Bearden,
614
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.839
who are the two well known CIA liaisons in Hollywood,
615
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.000
and how they consulted on movies like Meet the Parents,
616
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:17.079
how they consult on movies.
617
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.480
Like Wag the Dog. By the way, Wag the Dog
618
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:21.519
is about what I'm telling you about.
619
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.119
There's a whole movie made about the CIA consulting with
620
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:26.880
Hollywood and so forth. It's it's satirical, but it still,
621
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:29.799
you know, kind of hammers the point home. So these
622
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.680
are just kind of the beginning points where I started
623
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.839
this journey this question. So I didn't immediately when I
624
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.039
looked at these texts say, oh, then that's the illuminati
625
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.240
that runs everything. No, I mean, I'm just saying, these
626
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.000
are academic sources. If people want peer review, you want
627
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:46.279
hard evidence outside of my book, and all these books
628
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.720
are sourced of course inside it in my book.
629
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.279
You can look at that to begin your track down
630
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:52.960
this rabbit hole.
631
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.119
But so then what happens is if you look at
632
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.079
the cult side of Hollywood that I mentioned early on,
633
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.960
and you said scientology, You said, what I see is money,
634
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.880
what I see is fame.
635
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:05.319
I would totally agree with you.
636
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.519
I would say, many cases when people come out of
637
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.680
Scientology and they like Ramini and she talks about it,
638
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:13.599
she says, oh, they were, you know, abusing us and
639
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:16.680
this and that, and that's all true at one level.
640
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.920
But I would say, if you've read Edward Barne's book Propaganda,
641
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.400
one of the things that Brene says is that the
642
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.240
greatest tool for propaganda.
643
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:27.559
The world has ever seen is Hollywood.
644
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.160
And so he made that a central aspect of the
645
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.279
way that the advertising because he actually went from working
646
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.880
with the State Department to working with advertising and mass
647
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.720
marketing to tell them how to manipulate human psychology so
648
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.240
that mass advertising campaigns would be successful. Brene said that
649
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:52.039
Hollywoo would be key to controlling and engineering people's perception. So,
650
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:56.400
long story short, there are just countless white papers, countless
651
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.480
documents that you can very easily verify from the vantage
652
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.480
point of the CIA, from the vantage point of the
653
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.279
Pentagon think tanks that very openly discuss using so many
654
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:13.480
movies films in this perspective of big scale social engineering.
655
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.880
So even if you want to say, well, it's not
656
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.599
a cult, I would just say, okay, I don't care
657
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:21.799
whether we use the word cult or not. I think
658
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.559
it is like a cult, like Robin Winks's book Cloak
659
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:29.519
and Gown says, but at least in practice, it functions
660
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.720
as simply a tool to control people's perception. And that's
661
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.440
why there's a giant machinery that goes into making pop
662
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:38.960
stars as well.
663
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.519
I'm certainly not going to argue that no social engineering
664
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.039
happens in Hollywood. That would be ridiculous and ignorant to
665
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:49.000
make that claim. It's more that i'm The argument I
666
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.319
want to have is actually, what it almost sounded like
667
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:54.079
you were dismissing is that this book seems to claim
668
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:58.799
to expose precisely what that social engineering is geared toward toward.
669
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.240
And it seems to me you only need to pick
670
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:03.839
something different to do the exact same thing. And I
671
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.599
could write a whole book on how these people who
672
00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:09.880
learned via through consulting with the CIA. I'll grant you
673
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.280
every point, because I'm not I don't know well enough
674
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.360
about all these white papers to.
675
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:15.000
Say you're wrong.
676
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.159
If you are so I'll grant you all of those.
677
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.039
It seems like all I need to do is go, Okay,
678
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.039
what if I wanted to change my lens to Hollywood
679
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.480
is trying to program us all into a monogamous, not transform,
680
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:31.679
but maintain it into a monogamous, heteronormative culture, because that
681
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:36.159
is the easiest thing for them to gear their social
682
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.480
engineering towards. Is that's what they have traditionally worked with.
683
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.880
And then I can go through and find those themes
684
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:43.920
of still monogamy.
685
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.559
I just have to choose different movies.
686
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.000
And in fact, what I found interesting about this book
687
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:54.519
too is in trying to apparently expose this ginormous underlying plot,
688
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.960
you chose a series of movies that a lot of
689
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.519
people have seen, but I've seen less than half of them.
690
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.480
So whatever this group is doing, love, I hope it's
691
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.639
your new book that's going to come in with some
692
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.639
examples of maybe what's And I'm a little bit younger,
693
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:13.079
clearly I'm not over the age of fourteen, but thee
694
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.960
I hope some more modern examples of how this is
695
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.199
still being maintained, because otherwise it seems to me if
696
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.440
everything comes from that sort of restricted time period just
697
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:27.800
as as feasible an idea that the reason the movies
698
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.599
look that way is because it's what was popular in
699
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:33.760
culture at the time. And even if these people learn
700
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:39.119
things while doing other social engineering in these CIA plots
701
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.239
or Cold war propaganda or whatever, I wouldn't expect them
702
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.280
everything that I would expect to see similarities between the
703
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.840
movies they made then and the movies they made later.
704
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:51.800
I don't.
705
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.280
Again, confirmation bias is what it feels like. The whole
706
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.519
book is about, here's the lens I'm going to use,
707
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.239
here's the information that does. I mean, it's a it's
708
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.199
a lot to think about, and it's there's a lot
709
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.840
of things where it's like, Okay, why is that? But
710
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.000
then it's also like why do I need to make
711
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.159
that jump? So why do you see that? You can
712
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.599
respond to anything I said, But I'd love to see well, yeah.
713
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.840
So like in the second book. Yeah, so in the
714
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:18.719
second book.
715
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.079
I bring in in the first uh several the first
716
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.840
couple chapters, if I recall the concept of the various
717
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.719
mafias that have had influence in Hollywood.
718
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.639
So again, I feel like you're trying to push me.
719
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.760
Into a position where I have to say that I'm
720
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:39.760
consistently claiming there's only one single group that runs everything. No, Okay,
721
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.719
well that's I mean, I'm very I try to be
722
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:45.000
very nuanced, And in fact, what you're hitting on is
723
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.360
something that I specifically did want to include in the sequel,
724
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.519
which is the question of the mafia, and this before
725
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.800
I looked into that was an area where I was
726
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.079
kind of unclear how it fit in, because obviously there's
727
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.000
been a lot of mob of influence in Hollywood.
728
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:57.239
Over the decades.
729
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.000
So what I tried to do was look at the
730
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.880
the tie in between how the mafia and the CIA
731
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.360
have actually made deals and worked together at times. This
732
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.519
is actually portrayed by the way in Mario Puzzo's The
733
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.760
Godfather you have in the initial installment, he deals with
734
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:21.599
the way that the Mafia basically told certain directors what
735
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.199
movies would and wouldn't be made. And I try to
736
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.840
be fair to different mafias in their influence in Hollywood.
737
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.159
So there's a big, famous book called by Gus Russo
738
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.480
about Sydney Korshak and his influence in the mafia in
739
00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:39.000
Hollywood and Vegas. So that's a giant, six hundred page,
740
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.519
famous academic book. I've sourced that many times in the
741
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:44.880
first few chapters of my new book. And if you
742
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:47.679
know about the mafia, you know that they operate also
743
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:52.920
like a cult, and I see the CIA as a mafia.
744
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.199
Maybe that's a better wady to put it.
745
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.000
But you'll notice that the same kind of initiation rituals
746
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.320
for the Coast and Nostra for the Sicilian mafia, for
747
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:01.519
other mafias as well.
748
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.280
It's very similar to the kind.
749
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.719
Of initiation virtuals that if you read about Skull and
750
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.719
Bones at Gale, the kinds of initiation that they go through,
751
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.000
the oaths that have to be made, so life or
752
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:11.440
death thing.
753
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.599
You don't leave this, this is your whole life. You're
754
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:14.320
owned by the state.
755
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:16.760
Basically, the mafia have used it the same way, and
756
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.480
there have been documented historical instances declassified papers about the
757
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:23.559
CIA and the mafia making deals together.
758
00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:24.880
For example, the Bay of Pigs.
759
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.599
There were MOB connected people who were involved in the
760
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.119
failed invasion, this the so called Bay of Pigs, So
761
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.679
that was actually a deal between kind up question, there's.
762
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:39.719
A distinction that I'm now having a problem with. What
763
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.880
is your distinction between a cult, a religion, or a
764
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:46.440
cult and a political party because I'm again I'm trying
765
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:49.039
to not sound like a douche through this whole thing,
766
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:50.199
but honestly I will.
767
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:51.519
I don't know if I can come up with an
768
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.280
organization the same question.
769
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:56.840
Clarified by a cult.
770
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.199
Right, So I mean I believe that a cult generally, yes,
771
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.639
it has a religious connotation of some figure, some deity
772
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.639
that everybody has to submit to. And then the representation
773
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.280
of the leader in the cult. You know, he has
774
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:13.920
supreme power. This is generally what people think of when
775
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:18.280
they think of a cult, and I'm saying that in practice. Again,
776
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.400
there are many mainline academic books like Cloak and Gown
777
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.119
that will show you that the functioning of intelligence agencies
778
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.920
are just like cults, and the History of intelligence Agencies.
779
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.039
You can read Francis the Vornix's famous book on the
780
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:33.760
history of the rise of intelligence agencies out of Byzantium.
781
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.800
These are all mainline academic works. They will make the
782
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.639
same comparison. So the comparison is not something that I'm inventing.
783
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.360
It's a comparison that is normative in the history of
784
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:47.239
intelligence research. Alan Dulles in his book The Craft of Intelligence,
785
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:51.480
he goes back to the Israelite spies to give the
786
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.800
earliest examples of the functioning of intelligence agencies like religious organizations.
787
00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.559
So I'm not the person who came up with that
788
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:03.679
compar it's it's prevalent in the literature you can read.
789
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.400
It just seems like the way you're using the word
790
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:11.920
isn't necessarily as it certainly has its precedence and intelligence,
791
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:16.039
and I think they probably had perhaps a more precise definition.
792
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.559
I dare say, it seems like you're making the comparison
793
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.519
useless because I feel I could use your use of
794
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.880
act like a cult to describe virtually anything, any organization.
795
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.119
It does. It does feel like you very broadly.
796
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.960
Okay, But but if we talk about the way, for example,
797
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.000
agents offering operates sometimes in Hollywood, if you've read any
798
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.039
biographies of people who've had to deal with an agent
799
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:46.079
who you know, kind of ran their life, and especially
800
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:48.559
as you climb up the ladder, a lot of times
801
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:50.440
agents have a lot of power they can they can
802
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.639
you know, basically like in the case of Elvis and
803
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:58.679
his his agent, Colonel Tom. He was who supplied Elvis
804
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:00.920
with drugs, so he had a lot of influence in
805
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.480
Elvis's life. Uh, and and a lot of control by extension,
806
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:09.199
especially as a high level military guy. So I mean,
807
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:11.039
I think that to me, that's just a common sense
808
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.280
kind of analysis. But so I'm not really getting what
809
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:16.000
what the point is is that you're just basically saying
810
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.519
that I'm misusing the word cult. And all I was
811
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.280
trying to do was to say that if you want
812
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:25.880
to use a broad definition of psychological manipulation, then then
813
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:26.719
you can say that.
814
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:32.400
But I don't think, yeah, I'm not just trying to
815
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.800
make a silly point of like you're using the word
816
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:39.639
wrong for more, especially as an atheist, I hear that
817
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.280
word abused a lot, the word atheists and and and
818
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.880
the stretch is made and people will use or the
819
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.400
word faith actually is a better.
820
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:48.360
One to use, so I can go into your realm
821
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:49.119
a little bit more.
822
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:53.960
The word faith is just used so broadly, but people
823
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:58.320
use it interchangeably in places where you can't actually necessarily
824
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:02.039
tell which power they've given that word. And so it's
825
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.239
not just the broad use, it's then the continued use
826
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.239
as though it has a more significant power, more significant
827
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.880
is represented more significantly, when again it seems to be
828
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.159
following with that the next argument now we've got cults,
829
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.679
agents act like cults. I really don't know what organization
830
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:21.639
with any kind of head that has more power than
831
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.639
than the people under couldn't be used so vaguely. But
832
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:29.519
then when you're reading a book about exposing a cult life,
833
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.119
that has a different level of power implied.
834
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.559
And I don't think your use of the word cult.
835
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:35.159
Okay.
836
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:43.480
If a person goes against something, say that's not politically correct, right,
837
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.599
it's not like a Hollywood agent has to stamp them out. Rather,
838
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.559
it's known that they're not going to get the job.
839
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.079
They get blacklisted. I mean, the idea of being blacklisted
840
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:57.280
in Hollywood is very common. So so in other words,
841
00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.079
I'm not saying that that has to be like one
842
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:02.840
guy at the top of a pyramid who you know,
843
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.320
like makes the calls all day about who's who's killed,
844
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.039
Who gets what role? What I mean in the sense
845
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.559
of different studios and who gets what roles. We saw
846
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:12.880
this with Harvey Weinstein. If you didn't screw the right person,
847
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.079
if you didn't do the right stuff, you know, you
848
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.639
didn't get the right roles right, and then we had
849
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:19.840
all the meat too stuff. So that's casting couch. That's
850
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:25.400
well known I don't think I'm going beyond anything public
851
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:28.639
in saying that Hollywood operates like a cult. In fact,
852
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.000
how many people from Hollywood have made this same claim.
853
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.360
John Cusack has called Hollywood a giant prostitution slash wourhouse.
854
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:40.760
Ben Affleck says Hollywood is full of cig agents and
855
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.599
operates like an intelligence cult. I mean, to me, it
856
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.039
just seems obviously, maybe just because I've been so so
857
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.000
in messed in the research, that it's it's like secondhand
858
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:51.840
to me that it seems strange that somebody would have.
859
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:52.280
A problem with that.
860
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.039
But I feel like you're saying you're saying there's feel
861
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.039
like you're saying there's no over You're saying there's no
862
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.519
overwriting conspiracy, and I'm saying there is no but we
863
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:01.920
don't have.
864
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:07.079
To do Okay, Well, I'm still not in the precise critique.
865
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.639
I'm saying you have come out with a precise or
866
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.719
or a more precise conspiracy that your book seems to
867
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.360
claim to expose the I don't think the thesis of
868
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.320
the book is at all well stated in the title.
869
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:24.559
In fact, I would say esoteric Hollywood then follows with basically,
870
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.280
here's all of the reasons why esoteric hollywould exist. Once
871
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.559
you already accept that it exists, here's all of the
872
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:30.639
things you see from it.
873
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.639
So I mean the book that's not true. No, I
874
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:39.440
mean okay, But but I think you're okay.
875
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.519
Maybe this is a difference in epistemology because you seem
876
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:47.320
to think that there's a way to enter into investigations
877
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:49.960
with neutrality, and I don't believe that there's such a
878
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.679
thing as neutrality, Like there's no way to investigate a
879
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:56.599
thing from a purely neutral stance and to determine oh well,
880
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:57.079
I have.
881
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:58.679
No prior experience of this thing.
882
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:01.360
Let me then look at it, size it up, smell it,
883
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.559
and through the sense data, I can make my final declaration.
884
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:06.920
As to the truth or falsity of this thing.
885
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.840
Now I'm not against empirical data, but that's a very
886
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:15.000
naive approach to epistemology or how we learn and study things.
887
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.559
So again, when I started this track, I did not
888
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.800
believe that there was a significant amount of overwriting conspiracy
889
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.840
in Hollywood, or that there were powerful cults in Hollywood.
890
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.800
That was a later conclusion that I came to after
891
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:31.559
a lot of years of reading on the subject. So
892
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.199
I didn't come into it with that. By the way,
893
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:39.840
the book's thesis is just simply that film and that
894
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.559
art form shares a lot of similarities to ritual. That's
895
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:45.880
the very first chapter in the book is film as Ritual.
896
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.760
So other artists have made that same comparison. The surrealists
897
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:55.920
believe that their artworks role displayed a kind of ritual presentation.
898
00:45:56.360 --> 00:46:01.159
Many directors have compared their works to rich So I
899
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:03.239
don't even think that in itself, just from a comparative
900
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:06.119
religion stance, should should even be that that outlandish. It
901
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.639
does strike people a little strange, but that's kind of
902
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.920
what I wanted to do. And you're right that the
903
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:14.159
book doesn't have necessarily a single thesis. That's because it's
904
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:17.039
a collection of essays, so a collection of.
905
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:23.599
Essays, and I understand that it just it seems to
906
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:28.280
me I'm not representing the idea that it again, because
907
00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.639
I already said at the very beginning that it doesn't
908
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:32.320
name names, it doesn't follow the money.
909
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:34.519
But as far as your point about.
910
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:39.719
Remaining, I do name names, so I'm not sure.
911
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.280
Sure, yeah, you do specifically which directors were doing what
912
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:48.159
or which movie creators are making for Hollywood and NASA.
913
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:49.639
There are names definitely in the book.
914
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:51.840
What I'm talking about is there is no While it
915
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.679
implies this grander conspiracy, it doesn't tie all the conspiracy
916
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.400
together with a bow, which I don't think you're claiming,
917
00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:58.519
and I'm not trying to represent what you did. You
918
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:02.880
then made the point about neutral remaining neutral, and while
919
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.320
I agree that it is pretty difficult to approach anything
920
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:09.719
without bias, it feels like that was an admission on
921
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:13.679
your source or on your end, that this book is
922
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.280
written toward yourself and not toward an audience, because it
923
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:20.280
doesn't do a good job of establishing for the audience.
924
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:23.719
It literally just kind of to me, seems like you're saying,
925
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:26.599
presume all of this research I did, because man, look
926
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.639
at the list of things I've done all resulted in this,
927
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.239
and as long as you start here, everything that follows
928
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:32.840
will be obvious.
929
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.920
We're tying back into confirmation bias. Again. I'm also not
930
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.519
saying that there aren't obvious symbols in these movies, but
931
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.920
there are lots of stretches made.
932
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.119
Okay, well, I mean made. You've made a lot of
933
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.280
these claims, which is fine. I'm open to criticism, but again,
934
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.800
I wasn't conceding that the book was written from my
935
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.400
own perspective. I was saying that I think that's a
936
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.360
fact about human nature and experience across the board. I
937
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.000
think everybody's in the same boat about there being no
938
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:06.159
neutrality strictly speaking, so everybody by your by your definition,
939
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:09.039
anyone who writes a paper could then be or or
940
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:11.679
tries to make it, or tries to make a persuasive
941
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.440
argument for their case, would there be therefore therefore be
942
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:18.079
committing confirmation bias. And I think this is just simply
943
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:18.599
a misuse.
944
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:22.800
And I wouldn't say that represents it completely, but certainly
945
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:26.000
anybody who relies on that, as well as other fallacies.
946
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.239
For example, in the intro of your book, however, as
947
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:30.760
I think you will find the popularity of my film
948
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.719
analysis will lend some credence to the fact that I
949
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:33.559
am onto something.
950
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.360
Now we've got a new fallacy regarding popularity.
951
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.400
So I would say, with that and the other part
952
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:41.920
of the intro that included the and I can find
953
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:43.519
for you, because I've highlighted.
954
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.639
Much of this book, if you'd like, I can find
955
00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:46.519
for the.
956
00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.639
Yeah, first of all, there's different ways to write different things.
957
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.239
Right, So if I could take a Dostyevsky novel and
958
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.639
I could pick it apart for finding fallacies in different
959
00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.320
characters or even trying to find a foul.
960
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.679
Okay, so this is not strictly speaking a book.
961
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.599
Yes, it is written to expose, but there's different types
962
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.480
of writing, right, Prose, you're not going to investigate prose.
963
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:12.079
And I use a lot of prose and a lot
964
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.679
of satire, a lot of sardonic type wit and goofiness
965
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:18.280
in the text on purpose. And so I think to
966
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:21.320
try to dissect that as if that was fallacy is
967
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:23.239
a little bit absurd, because that's not.
968
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:23.719
No.
969
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:28.519
I'm sorry if you're trying to call the fact sentence
970
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.760
of satirical, I mean this is you literally setting up
971
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:35.280
the book. Your next sentence is actually where the confromise
972
00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.119
nation bias comes in. Thus the reader will travel with
973
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:41.679
me on a mental journey into the psychosphere, understand the
974
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.480
semiotic system I use, and in turn be able to
975
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:47.199
interpret the film in a deeper esoteric sense of their own.
976
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.719
You're setting You're saying it's.
977
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.519
A fallacy because I said my book, my analyzes are popular,
978
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:59.119
and it's onto something. So you're going at a prosaic, popular,
979
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:00.119
gave it, creed.
980
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:03.159
Each other, each other, finish ahead.
981
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:07.719
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I'm not.
982
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.320
When you write an introduction to a book, you're not
983
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:11.559
always making an argument.
984
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:12.599
Do you not understand that?
985
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.280
Yes, I understand, I understand you setting yourself up for again,
986
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:23.599
it's the intro to the book asks the reader to
987
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.599
skip a lot and skip straight forward to here's my analysis. Now,
988
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:30.679
I'm sorry if you guys are getting win stuff, but
989
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.840
my outside just went like crazy. But here's here's where
990
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.639
I'm at. Now I need you to start where I've
991
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.400
already gone. You don't even make a quicker or a
992
00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:44.119
quick case for here's this, here's you've done more so
993
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:44.679
in this.
994
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:47.760
Actually, actually I include I include a film scholar at
995
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.880
the very beginning, quoting Orson well so that the first
996
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.760
quote is about Orson Wells talking about genre and the
997
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:58.280
way genre affects our perception. And then I go into
998
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.840
talking about uh, semiotics.
999
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:02.360
And and and and Yeah.
1000
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:04.920
I don't have no problem admitting that I have presubpositions
1001
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:07.920
and I come to the table with my own biases.
1002
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:09.920
But again, I think we all do that. And I
1003
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.559
mean again, you could your your approach could have pick
1004
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.559
apart any work of literature. And this is I grant
1005
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.599
you that my book is a little bizarre because it's
1006
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:21.320
also and that's that's part of the appeal, by the way,
1007
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.239
is that it's not just academic, it's not just written
1008
00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.159
in a popular level. It's it's a kind of a
1009
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:29.400
weird mix of all these things. And I intentionally wanted
1010
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.000
it to be that way. So you're going to find,
1011
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.599
i'm sure, a lot of fallacies. But it's also not
1012
00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:38.280
a a strict logical book. It's not a book about
1013
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:41.679
logical argumentation. It's a book about the arts. And I
1014
00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:43.559
mean the idea that you could apply that kind of
1015
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.000
approach to aesthetics and the arts is a little a
1016
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:47.719
little strained.
1017
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:52.760
I would say, Yeah, perhaps, I think I think you're
1018
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.719
you're saying that it does rely on a lot of presuppositions,
1019
00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:59.480
so sort of makes my point for me, which is
1020
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.480
that those pre but I will continue that point that
1021
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:06.719
those presuppositions aren't justified well enough by your one quote
1022
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:08.559
that you were talking about at the very beginning, which
1023
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:11.440
precedes it by a few paragraphs, to ask the reader
1024
00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:13.679
to make those presuppositions themselves.
1025
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:15.880
And because it just sort of goes on.
1026
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:17.519
I think there are a lot of people who will
1027
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:20.320
read this book and naturally make those presuppositions.
1028
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.960
In fact, I think this book at times makes.
1029
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.199
It Neil Degrass Tyson.
1030
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.199
This sounds like Neil Degrass Twicon trying to dissect interstellar
1031
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.480
I mean this that's not the context of what this is.
1032
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:33.599
This is not a book that's just about me trying
1033
00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:35.920
to prove my case to you, as if it was
1034
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.199
a you know, a law setting with the judge up there,
1035
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:40.679
and can I prove my case to you?
1036
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.360
I mean a lot of people are not going to.
1037
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:48.800
Book means to expose, doesn't mean to prove.
1038
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:52.360
Are you Are you aware that there's different ways to
1039
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.480
go about exposing things. I mean, not everything has to
1040
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:57.079
be done in a a legal court case situation. And
1041
00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.159
by the way, here's a little, a little, a little
1042
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:00.719
advice for you. If if you want to have a
1043
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:03.199
book one day, your editor is going to tell you
1044
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:05.719
this needs to be written. I'm not being a dick.
1045
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.840
I'm just saying, like what you'll go through. Your editor
1046
00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.039
will say, you've got to write this in a way
1047
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:12.760
that is going to be fun to read, and people
1048
00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:14.599
are going to get a kick out of it. You
1049
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.360
can't and be persuasive. You can't just write it as
1050
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:20.199
if it were, you know, a list.
1051
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.719
Of science facts or something like that. It's not going
1052
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:23.079
to work.
1053
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:27.000
I wonder if you would encourage me to this future editor,
1054
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.079
if I write this future book, to not write a
1055
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.320
book based on so many large presuppositions that I won't
1056
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.760
have in common with many of my readers, but ask them.
1057
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:37.320
You haven't specified.
1058
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:39.880
I mean, I'm sitting here with like fifty books around
1059
00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:42.679
me that that basically back up any claim that I've made,
1060
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.079
and you've not specifically told me anywhere that I'm wrong.
1061
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.480
You basically just said that I've had presubpositions. But we
1062
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:49.559
all have presubositions.
1063
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:50.840
So what? So where am I from?
1064
00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:59.239
I haven't read just a second Steve, I think, did
1065
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:03.559
you want to kind of tag tag into what? Because
1066
00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.079
I think we're kind of getting to the point where
1067
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.159
we're going just you know, kind of going to servers
1068
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:10.519
a little bit with the back and forth. Steve has
1069
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:12.400
kind of a thing to tag onto that I think,
1070
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.440
to Jimmy's point, I believe, well.
1071
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:19.159
Yes, sort of. I mean, I mean, I'm actually kind
1072
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:21.599
of the way Jay's describing it, And again I have
1073
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:23.760
not read anything by you, Jay, I don't know your book.
1074
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.320
For the way you're describing things, I'm actually siding with
1075
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:29.519
you at the moment on how you did an introduction
1076
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.880
to your book. I don't see an issue about how
1077
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.679
you formulated the structure of what was going to be
1078
00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:36.400
introduced in the book, because you don't make an argument
1079
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.960
in a an introduction of book. I do agree with
1080
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.840
you that obviously we all have our presuppositions. Now, I
1081
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:44.880
think the question though, and again I'm not trying to
1082
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:48.119
ask this from Jimmy, but I'm trying to get the
1083
00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:51.559
life feed you know, questions posed to you, But do
1084
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:55.000
you think that did you have some presuppositions prior to
1085
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:59.960
the investigation of these symbols, thinking that there was something
1086
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:01.960
to this, which I think it's fair. I mean, I
1087
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:03.239
don't think is anything wrong with that, and then try
1088
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:05.119
to find evidence for against it because these are not
1089
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.000
scientific claims. Usually scientific claims we try to find evidence
1090
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:11.039
to falsify your hypothesis. We grant that this is not
1091
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:13.920
that kind of case. So would you expand about that
1092
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:16.639
more about how europistemlogical approach was where you do have
1093
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:19.440
these presuppositions, but you do it in what kind of
1094
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.320
systematic way to justify those beliefs.
1095
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.440
Yeah, this is a book written about the arts. It's
1096
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:30.239
basically a culture commentary that touches on a lot of
1097
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:33.400
different genres. So, like in the first chapter and then
1098
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:37.280
the first sections, we're dealing with specific Kubrick films.
1099
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:38.760
And I pick Kubrick just because he's so.
1100
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:42.039
Prominent and relevant, and he does, you know, pretty obviously
1101
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:44.039
pack his films full of a lot of symbolism. So
1102
00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:48.840
when I investigate Eyes White Shut, I look at Kubrick's experience,
1103
00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:51.360
what we know about Kubrick, things he talked about in interviews.
1104
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:55.320
I look at the way that he places the camera.
1105
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:57.159
I look at the colors that are used. I look
1106
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:01.199
at the influences that probably went into to why he
1107
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.320
chose traum Novella, which is a specific, you know, occult
1108
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:11.079
influenced novel to put into a surrealist Jungian dream state film.
1109
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:13.280
That's what the film was about, It's the dream state.
1110
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:19.360
So it's basically an essay on interpretation or semiotics. And
1111
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:23.599
so if you take not trying to be arrogant or condescending,
1112
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.360
I'm just saying if you go, like if you take
1113
00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.440
a class in aesthetics, Like if you do a philosophy degree,
1114
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:33.119
you'll have probably aesthetics. You'll have a class on art interpretation.
1115
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.639
You'll try to do interpretation. You'll do what's doing in
1116
00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:38.840
literature was called a close reading. So if you have
1117
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.880
a class on Dustiefki or if you have a class
1118
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.920
on Shakespeare, you'll do a close reading of the text
1119
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.760
where you try to argue for the interpretation of the
1120
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.840
symbols that you see there. And yes, I will admit
1121
00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:53.079
that symbols oftentimes are polyvalent, which means they can have
1122
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:57.239
multiple meanings based on wider contexts. But that's precisely because
1123
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.000
of the philosophical position I have about signs and symbols
1124
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.239
that I don't believe they operate outside of a context.
1125
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:07.280
I believe there they're context situated strictly speaking, and so
1126
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.440
really art interpretation for me, aesthetics for me is impossible
1127
00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:16.280
to divorce from the holistic worldview or paradigm that.
1128
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:16.880
I come from.
1129
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.679
And that's why when I write about eyes white shut,
1130
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.000
I'm tying it into you know, the the Tom Cruise
1131
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:26.719
connections to scientology. You do have the parent you know,
1132
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.519
reference to the sea, the sea or soldier there. In
1133
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.119
Nicole Kidman's sex Dream, you know, there's references to the
1134
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:37.440
Garden of Eden in her sex dream. We have the
1135
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:41.079
orgy with obviously Croleian overtones. So I try to make
1136
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:43.679
the case that that's what's going on in this film,
1137
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.079
And I look at a lot of comparative religion scholars
1138
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:49.679
who will say this symbol tends to mean this, and
1139
00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.440
I'll say, does that fit this context? Well, it does
1140
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:55.000
look like there's sorry, it does look like there's a
1141
00:57:55.119 --> 00:57:59.239
kind of goddess symbolism going on here. It does look like,
1142
00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:02.719
you know, when she says I want to give myself
1143
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:06.079
as a ransom for Tom to save his life, that
1144
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:08.920
the cult actually operates like an intelligence agency because they're
1145
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:12.079
able to surveil him and so forth. So basically, again,
1146
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.280
I'm looking at the totality of Kubrick's films, and one
1147
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:21.280
prominent theme is sex trafficking and sex abuse, and I'm
1148
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:22.599
saying that's here in this film too.
1149
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:24.760
So is Kubert trying to tell us something?
1150
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:26.960
I think so, I don't think that's much of a stretch,
1151
00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:29.400
especially given all of the news that's coming out about
1152
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:31.519
Hollywood in the last several decades that this has been
1153
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:32.960
a real problem in Hollywood.
1154
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.519
So did your book mean to claim that it is
1155
00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:39.760
exposing that and it is the one exposing it, because
1156
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:42.760
it sounds like we're My main disagreement with you this
1157
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:45.599
is getting lost is how it's being treated like it's
1158
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:48.639
exposing something new and then and at times that seems
1159
00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:50.079
to be the case, and then at times it seems
1160
00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:53.599
to be. Really I'm just summarizing the fifty books behind me.
1161
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.719
So where is it landing on the exposing a new truth?
1162
00:58:57.760 --> 00:58:57.920
I mean?
1163
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.199
Or is it just the summary of other exs this?
1164
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:04.599
No, I mean, I think I guess the fact that
1165
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:07.239
the book was successful and has you know, over one
1166
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:09.559
hundred plus five star reviews, means that it's not a
1167
00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:12.119
piece of ship book and it's not just me regurgitating
1168
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.079
what the other people said.
1169
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:13.320
I mean.
1170
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.519
To be a successful writer and to have the book
1171
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:18.760
made into a movie, excuse me, into the TV show,
1172
00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:20.880
I think it requires a little bit of skill. It's
1173
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:22.960
not just regurgitating. So that's a little bit of a
1174
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:27.559
low blow, but that's okay. I can take it just
1175
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:31.440
given I just answered your question by saying that the
1176
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.519
book is a bunch of different kinds of things. So
1177
00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:36.599
you keep asking, I'm getting is it an expose? And
1178
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:39.480
I'm saying there's an element of expose, So no, it's not.
1179
00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:42.480
To you understand that it seems to represent itself with
1180
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:46.639
a title like Esoteric Hollywood, as though that is what
1181
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.440
it is, and that that is what Most people, by
1182
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:50.559
the way, are aware that.
1183
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.599
You can be an interesting Are you aware that you
1184
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:56.480
can't the cover and then to and then to sell
1185
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:58.199
books that helps to have sex in the title.
1186
00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:01.559
Yes, I agree, is that I actually the sex quire?
1187
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:03.119
But that part's true.
1188
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.559
Let's go beyond the cover that the introduction seems to imply.
1189
01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:08.599
I agree that it has that it's going to be
1190
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.239
a book of a great expose A do you acknowledge
1191
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:15.800
that that is I think commonly among the people who
1192
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:18.039
are going to buy your book thinking they are going
1193
01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:21.239
in about to read about the exposure of something that
1194
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:25.920
wasn't presently obvious, and that that actually wasn't the intention
1195
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.119
of the book, or that it's the intention of the
1196
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:29.440
book was many many things.
1197
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:33.440
It sounds like, well, everybody, do you feel you've answered
1198
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:33.880
that question?
1199
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:36.599
Everybody has the title.
1200
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:40.159
I think we're kind of going back and forth on
1201
01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:41.760
this a little bit. Jay, let me try to rephrase
1202
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:43.159
this a little bit. How much of your book do
1203
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:44.920
you think is speculative and how much do you think
1204
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:49.360
is actually factual? As far as your conclusion that we
1205
01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.239
all think we all agree to symbolism in Hollywood, I
1206
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.119
don't think that's even a controversial thing, and then it
1207
01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:55.719
can all agreed book I.
1208
01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:56.360
Disagree with book.
1209
01:00:57.239 --> 01:00:59.880
Yeah, but that's a great question.
1210
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.440
I would say again again, I mean, I try to
1211
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:04.280
any of the times that I make a claim that
1212
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:07.639
I think is substantiated, there's a footnote. So again, there's
1213
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:13.239
three hundred and sixty three footnotes throughout the book. And yeah, again,
1214
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:16.239
in terms of interpreting symbols, they're polly valent. So there's
1215
01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.400
always going to be an area of fuzziness when it
1216
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.360
comes to exactly what it means, because, for.
1217
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:22.679
Example, I don't always know Kubrick's intention.
1218
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.840
I don't know the set director's intention, I don't know
1219
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:25.960
the cinematographer's intention.
1220
01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:28.239
And again, I mean.
1221
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:32.960
I wouldn't be in a documentary with you know, Shan
1222
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:35.880
Stone and Oliver Stone if there wasn't something to it.
1223
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:38.000
I mean, they read the book, it resonated within, and
1224
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:40.559
I'm not making an appeal to authority that they're but
1225
01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:42.599
I'm saying I've talked to a lot of people who
1226
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.760
are in Hollywood, so it's not just me speculating. It's
1227
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:49.880
also people who who are Hollywood insiders and famous in
1228
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:51.920
Hollywood have read the book and liked the book quite
1229
01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.719
a bit. So I think that speaks to its credibility,
1230
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:56.239
which it wouldn't have if it was just like a
1231
01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.039
tabloid rag or something something like that. So I would
1232
01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:03.320
say probably thirty percent of the book is speculative, and
1233
01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:07.199
probably seventy percent of the book is pretty solidly sourced.
1234
01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:09.960
How is Oliver Stone in real life?
1235
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.280
I'm just curious. I haven't spent a lot of time
1236
01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:13.599
with him.
1237
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:15.719
I've spent a good bit of time with Shanstone, and
1238
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:18.519
you know, I was in that documentary with Oliver. But
1239
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:21.760
I think Oliver's a smart, smart guy. I think he's
1240
01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.800
I don't agree with all of his political opinions, but
1241
01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:29.159
you know, I think he makes really good films at
1242
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:31.079
times that have been pretty conspiratorial.
1243
01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:32.800
That's one reason I like him is.
1244
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:36.360
That he's not afraid to delve into Hollywood conspiracy and
1245
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.320
history conspiracy and actually one of the things that prompted
1246
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:41.280
the book was I took a college course.
1247
01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:43.400
One of my film classes was.
1248
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.920
Hollywood history and the point of the class was to
1249
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:51.199
compare historical events as best we can trace them with
1250
01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:54.239
the way Hollywood represented them.
1251
01:02:54.280 --> 01:02:55.679
And there was a fascinating.
1252
01:02:55.199 --> 01:02:59.079
Class, and quite obviously a lot of those were Stone films.
1253
01:02:59.079 --> 01:03:01.239
So that was kind of what produced me to the
1254
01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:04.599
real Oliver Stone canon of films. And I think he's
1255
01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.400
pretty phenomenal in that regard. But you know, this is
1256
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.519
a working premise that Stone has, so you know this
1257
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:13.639
wasn't all just my idea. You know, he gives a
1258
01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:15.599
lot of interviews where he talks about the same kind
1259
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:18.199
of stuff, very critical of American foreign policy.
1260
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:20.000
That was the point of a lot of the war films.
1261
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.079
But but no, I spent more more time hanging out
1262
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:26.320
with Sean Stone than.
1263
01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:31.679
Oliver brought something up. I love he's very good, no
1264
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:34.079
question about it. But you brought something up earlier. Maybe
1265
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.920
we can dive into a little but you had actually
1266
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.679
mentioned something about these symbols being from a hermetic approach.
1267
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:42.079
Why do you think these symbols are out there from
1268
01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:45.639
a her medical approach? To what to what consequence, What
1269
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:48.400
is the goal of these symbols existing for that reason
1270
01:03:49.039 --> 01:03:50.000
in these films?
1271
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.159
Right, That's another thing I would say is determined by context.
1272
01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:57.800
So sometimes there's directors who are pretty self consciously interested
1273
01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:00.800
in her meticism, and they're open about it they put
1274
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.519
in their films. I mean, Darren Aronofsky, I've done a
1275
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:05.280
bunch of analysis. I don't think any of his analysis
1276
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.360
made it into the first book. But you know, Aeronofsky
1277
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:10.960
is pretty consciously influenced by Cobbolism.
1278
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:14.639
You know, he talks about that. It's very clear, I would.
1279
01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:18.760
Say in most of his movies, especially something like The Fountain,
1280
01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:23.880
I think, or his version of Noah, which was influenced
1281
01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:27.079
by cabalistic tradition about Noah.
1282
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:28.920
A lot of other directors will talk about it.
1283
01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:29.519
You know.
1284
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:31.719
Kubrick I think, has a lot of esoteric symbolism in
1285
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:35.000
his films. There's a quote by Kubert where he talks
1286
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:37.599
about it, and he's a little ambiguous as always to
1287
01:04:37.679 --> 01:04:39.599
keep that air of mystery as to what his real
1288
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:44.960
views are on these things. But I would say, again,
1289
01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:48.199
the purpose of why you would use alchemical symbolism could
1290
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:48.840
be manifold.
1291
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:52.199
So a lot of people in Hollywood are part of Freemasonry.
1292
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:58.719
That's pretty easily verified, and Freemasonry has a pretty wide
1293
01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:01.440
scope of symbolism. I view it as kind of another
1294
01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:03.880
version of again like intelligence agencies. If you look at
1295
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:08.880
the history of Freemasonry, it's really the British Empire's extension
1296
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:15.000
of its spy network. There's a famous book, Jacobson, Builders
1297
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:18.079
of Empire. It's a completely academic work, not conspiracy work,
1298
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:20.960
and her whole thing is the history of the British
1299
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:24.639
Empire's relationship to its free Masonic lodges, and she basically
1300
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:26.519
says that the whole purpose was to have a spy
1301
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:30.239
network throughout the Empire. And again that's kind of again
1302
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.840
pointing to the whole thesis of what we were arguing
1303
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.719
in the first hour, was that there's a close connection.
1304
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:37.599
Between these two entities.
1305
01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:40.760
And then you have in Hollywood again a lot of Freemasons.
1306
01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:44.800
So when you watch movies that self consciously I would say,
1307
01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:47.639
are Masonic, a lot of times there's Masonic symbolism quite
1308
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:50.360
you know, like self consciously, the square and compass.
1309
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:52.039
This comes up in films quite a bit.
1310
01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.039
It's therefore a reason and it just depends on the
1311
01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:59.599
context as to what that reason is. But I would say,
1312
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:03.119
like if you're watching a film like something, trying to
1313
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:07.119
think of something that's specifically alchemical, I would say, I
1314
01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.559
would say two thousand and one is an alchemical evolutionary
1315
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:14.840
notion of apotheosis that that man will evolve to being
1316
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.360
star child. I don't think that's too controversial.
1317
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:20.000
Arthur C. Clark, you know, says that's that's.
1318
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.920
The normal way of viewing that movie, right right.
1319
01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:27.480
So I would say in that sense, alchemy could be
1320
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:31.920
read as the story of man's progress from ape to
1321
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.719
you know, divinity, and that can be read alchemic. That's
1322
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:40.000
the great work of alchemy, according to some alchemists.
1323
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:44.639
Jimmy, do you want to do Yeah?
1324
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:48.000
Yeah, So is the purpose of presenting the idea of
1325
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:53.320
ape to man to robot figure in the future is
1326
01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:56.920
that I don't understand what the correlation is with the
1327
01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:01.119
motivation for the conspiracy. Are we talking about trying to
1328
01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.440
program people to believe in evolution, which definitely is something
1329
01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:07.079
you reject later in your book. In fact, you call
1330
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:11.639
Richard Dawkins and his cult silly, their classical notions of
1331
01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:15.760
God silly. You talk about how that's sort of reinforced
1332
01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:18.800
by e T Is that what's going on in two
1333
01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:21.079
thousand and one in your opinion too, just the reinforcement
1334
01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:24.119
of the idea that evolution is true, but by cult
1335
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:26.239
means and not by actually rational means.
1336
01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:31.719
Yeah, absolutely, I think that. I argue, if I recall
1337
01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:35.880
from that section, that people like H. G. Wells have
1338
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:39.719
had a lot more influence in determining people's perception of
1339
01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:44.400
their origins than any sort of scientific diatribe.
1340
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.119
And certainly scientific diet tribes can have an influence, but
1341
01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:50.440
I would say somebody like HG.
1342
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.119
Wells has had a lot more influence than somebody like
1343
01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:56.760
even Dawkins, because ah C. Wells has just been It's
1344
01:07:57.159 --> 01:08:00.639
hard to believe the degree to which he influenced so
1345
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:04.360
many storytellers, so much science fiction, so much of Hollywood.
1346
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:06.639
Spielberg, right, you know.
1347
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:10.239
Spielberg makes movies dedicated like you know, he remakes War
1348
01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:12.199
of the World. I mean, obviously, yes, it's a cash cow,
1349
01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:14.800
but but a lot of these people are not just
1350
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:19.119
doing cash cow stuff. There's a famous white paper from
1351
01:08:19.159 --> 01:08:21.960
the Brookings Institute from the sixties. I can get the
1352
01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:23.720
book if you want me to. I'll tell you what
1353
01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:27.239
it is, but they'd studied the effects of promoting the
1354
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:33.159
alien myth and how that would alter alter culture. So
1355
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:34.680
I mean, you're just off the top of my head,
1356
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:36.880
that's one white paper from Brookings Institute back in the
1357
01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:40.039
sixties that studied the possibility the alien myth being used
1358
01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:43.279
to alter culture. And I actually have some interviews with
1359
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.960
people from academic background on the history of aliens, which
1360
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:48.159
I don't believe in aliens at all.
1361
01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:50.039
In fact, i'd always try to debunk.
1362
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:52.640
Them that you made that point in the book as well,
1363
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:54.760
that you don't believe. I mean, it seems like you
1364
01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:57.720
don't even believe in the possibility of life being anywhere
1365
01:08:57.720 --> 01:09:01.079
on Earth. And you even I don't know how this
1366
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.239
exactly ties into the book, because it did. It seemed
1367
01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:05.600
to be just sort of added in. But how absurd
1368
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:11.439
and silly people like Dawkins seem because they acknowledge, for example,
1369
01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.600
the possibility without actually committing to it, of something like
1370
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:19.479
pan spermia being a reasonable explanation for the origin of
1371
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:22.520
life on our planet or perhaps other planets, though they
1372
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:25.800
would also continue that whatever the origin prior to that, where.
1373
01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:27.640
It came from, would also be of natural origin.
1374
01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:30.760
Yeah, and that's because I was making.
1375
01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:33.239
The point I was making was that Dawkins is very
1376
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:37.920
hostile to the Christian idea of theism generally speaking, but
1377
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:39.680
not hostile to the idea of aliens.
1378
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:41.640
And I find that laughable personally.
1379
01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.199
But why do you find that laughable? One of those
1380
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:45.840
has a natural explanation.
1381
01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:51.720
The other thing I would say is that that section
1382
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:53.920
is not there out of place.
1383
01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:54.960
It's not out of nowhere.
1384
01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:57.880
That section is there because that chapter was dedicated to
1385
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:00.640
talking about the influence in ag Wells. And one of
1386
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:02.920
the things that hgu Wells influenced a lot of people
1387
01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:08.079
towards was scientific naturalism, right, And I'm very critical of that.
1388
01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:11.840
I have countless debates and and essays critiquing naturalism. So
1389
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:14.880
to answer what you just asked, No, I don't find
1390
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.319
that to be a more naturalistic explanation at all, because
1391
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:20.079
naturalism itself, that I think is philosophically indefensible.
1392
01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:23.600
We can we clarify, just for purposes of clarification, are
1393
01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:26.680
you talking about ontological naturalism or mythological naturalism or both?
1394
01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:30.760
I mean in the metaphysical sense that what exists is
1395
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:32.319
essentially material.
1396
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:36.199
Reduction. So with that.
1397
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:39.840
Regard, then you would not see any distinction in how
1398
01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:44.159
laughable the claim of panspermia is compared to the idea
1399
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:48.159
that some chemical process on Earth without any sort of
1400
01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:51.640
asteroid bringing it from somewhere else, resulted in a self
1401
01:10:51.680 --> 01:10:54.159
replicating molecule that was able to adapt over time and
1402
01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:58.520
select it for the natural selection. Those are both laughable propositions,
1403
01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:02.319
despite being used to almost be like, look at this
1404
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:06.159
absurd thing that he thinks could be possible, it's not
1405
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:08.760
actually any more absurd than anything.
1406
01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:11.199
Richard Dawkins is saying.
1407
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:16.600
No, I find them both laughable, okay.
1408
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:18.279
And so, and I'm not gonna I won't bring it
1409
01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:19.920
back to the point of the introduction, because it seems
1410
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:22.720
like everybody was tired of talking about now. Later on
1411
01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:25.239
in the book, it again seems like the way you
1412
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:29.760
choose to use language is to establish things without context
1413
01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:32.439
so that they go straight to the conclusion of Because
1414
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:34.119
a lot of people, when they do hear pansperm me
1415
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:36.960
at first, that does seem absurd and crazy. And I'm
1416
01:11:36.960 --> 01:11:39.760
not going to fault you for not creating every distinction.
1417
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:43.560
But again, in this case, we're talking about presuppositions that
1418
01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:46.640
nobody even knows which ones they're meant to have. Uh,
1419
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:53.079
And so I wonder if that, now now pointed out
1420
01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:55.600
in two places, is a recurring theme and if again
1421
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:59.119
I'm I really just think this book is literally confromisation
1422
01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:00.000
biased the novel.
1423
01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.560
That's That's what it comes down to it. Look at
1424
01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:04.000
it this way.
1425
01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:07.159
Just these things as silly, and you get my book
1426
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.560
completely and as long as.
1427
01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:10.279
You commit to I mean, it will be a super
1428
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:11.279
dope weed trip.
1429
01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:14.920
I have a whole bunch of essays that are written
1430
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:18.880
from the vanta's point of arguing and confirming a case
1431
01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:21.000
in a strict logical sense. So, for example, I have
1432
01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:25.119
a paper on uh, transcendental arguments and relationship to numbers. Okay,
1433
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:28.760
I have papers on number theory, right that those are
1434
01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:32.960
strictly logical arguments. They're not written in the style of
1435
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:37.319
halfway satire tongue in cheek at times. I mean, if
1436
01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.000
you read the analysis I did of Labyrinth, or uh,
1437
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.600
the analysis I did of Never Any Story, I mean,
1438
01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:44.640
they're their tongue in cheek, they're funny, but they also
1439
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:48.560
bring in aspects of things that are that are real.
1440
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:51.039
Like Michael Inda, you know, he's he was a Crollian.
1441
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:53.960
I think that influenced his his writing of The never
1442
01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:57.960
Ending Story. So again I think you're you're hung up
1443
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.800
on something that is not. This is not a book
1444
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:04.159
about apologetics. Yes, at times there will be things where
1445
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:06.319
I will make equips and I'll say I think Richard
1446
01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:10.960
Dawkins is ridiculous, But again that's not You're trying to
1447
01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:13.720
find arguments when that wasn't the point of that essay.
1448
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:16.159
The part of the essay was to talk about propaganda,
1449
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:19.239
and yeah, how I use my own propaganda.
1450
01:13:19.479 --> 01:13:23.239
Sure, and it's largely spective and that part's fun. And
1451
01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:24.920
I don't. Again, I don't disagree there's this.
1452
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:25.880
I don't.
1453
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.479
I'm not agreeing that lots of the thaims you're making
1454
01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:30.479
actually come to that end. But I do think that
1455
01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:34.399
the symbols oftentimes were used purposefully.
1456
01:13:34.439 --> 01:13:36.159
However, not for the.
1457
01:13:36.039 --> 01:13:40.079
Ends of of sort of brainwashing a society into being
1458
01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:44.520
either accepting or an unaware member of this cult.
1459
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:46.359
Because again, then.
1460
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:48.760
You you need only change which lends you look through
1461
01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:51.600
to make the exact same case for literally anything.
1462
01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:53.319
So the problems I have.
1463
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:55.359
Are these where let me make, let me make let
1464
01:13:55.399 --> 01:13:56.520
me put this to you in an easy way. Do
1465
01:13:56.520 --> 01:14:00.279
you know what ethnography is I'm not I'm not, you know.
1466
01:14:01.239 --> 01:14:03.119
So if you read about the CIA, what they'll do
1467
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:05.560
is that when they go into any culture to try
1468
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:07.840
to figure out what's going on to manipulate it, they'll
1469
01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:09.239
do ethnographic studies.
1470
01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:11.359
This is one of the major things that the CIA does.
1471
01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:14.199
So Margaret Meade and people like that there classic is
1472
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:16.239
that I'm not saying she was working with the CIA necessarily.
1473
01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:17.600
I think she was part of other.
1474
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:22.359
Philosophical groups, but a lot of anthropologists have actually been
1475
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:24.960
working for the CIA, and what they do is they
1476
01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:29.119
produce studies that are called ethnographies, and what they'll do
1477
01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:32.760
is they'll figure out everything in a people group, down
1478
01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:37.039
to their linguistic idiosyncrasies and how they'll pronounce things in
1479
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.439
a strange way. And the reason that you do in
1480
01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:43.399
ethnography to that extreme extent is to figure out how
1481
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.560
to engage with that culture and how to move.
1482
01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:47.960
Them in the direction that you want.
1483
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:51.880
So again, this is something very easily verified on the
1484
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:54.680
part of the CIA, and I think if you think
1485
01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.600
about their perspective of America and how they would like
1486
01:14:57.680 --> 01:15:00.840
to sway American opinion, you know, with people with so
1487
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.279
many people in media that have come out of the CIA,
1488
01:15:03.439 --> 01:15:08.000
Robert Behar, Anderson Cooper, well known people. There's I don't
1489
01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:11.439
think it should be even contentious that they're going to
1490
01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:14.239
look at film. They're going to look at those kinds
1491
01:15:14.279 --> 01:15:16.920
of things in the same way to try to sway opinion.
1492
01:15:17.079 --> 01:15:20.760
So when I'm making a case in the book specifically,
1493
01:15:20.840 --> 01:15:22.640
it's that kind of a case. It's that kind of
1494
01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.960
a thing to show clear collusion between two entities that
1495
01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.399
we tend to think don't have any relationship together, like
1496
01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:31.159
the Pentagon in Hollywood, you know, unless you were, you know,
1497
01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:33.079
raised in a military family or something like that.
1498
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:36.720
So so again I'm just not saying, let.
1499
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:39.119
Me, let me interject, it's not as good where it stops.
1500
01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:43.680
Go ahead, because we're hitting close to the.
1501
01:15:45.159 --> 01:15:48.119
Right the ninety minute mark, and I think this will
1502
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:50.399
be a good time to there's some questions that the
1503
01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:53.399
people in the live chat have. We're going to get
1504
01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:57.159
to those real quick. I have a couple of my own.
1505
01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:00.199
Mine are always the questions that I always come up
1506
01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:03.680
with our silly based though they're just having to be
1507
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:06.640
random questions that I think about as we go along.
1508
01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:09.520
Since you're a conspiracy theorist, person while we get while
1509
01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:12.119
Steve gets the question from live chat. Guys, if you're
1510
01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:14.079
in the live chat, this is your last chance to
1511
01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:16.520
get your questions in. She goes over to Steve. He
1512
01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:23.079
will ask them. But I wouldn't consider myself very conspiracy
1513
01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:27.079
theory minded, but there is one that I buy into
1514
01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:30.880
rather hard, and I want to know if you have
1515
01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:33.600
any kind of dealings with it, since that's the case
1516
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:37.199
for you. But I am a hardcore proponent that there
1517
01:16:37.399 --> 01:16:41.640
is a cover up with the Sphinx and how old
1518
01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:44.800
it is and if there was a civilization prior to
1519
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:46.920
what they say in Egypt.
1520
01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:53.199
Kyle speak's conspiracy you're talking about, Like, Like, I've read
1521
01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:55.239
Graham Hancock's book on that and I thought there were
1522
01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:57.479
some interesting things, but I don't, Yeah, I don't, I
1523
01:16:57.479 --> 01:16:57.920
don't have.
1524
01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.079
I don't have a committed opinion on that. I don't know.
1525
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:06.560
I thought.
1526
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:11.640
I thought the book was interesting, but.
1527
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:13.720
But yeah, it is interesting.
1528
01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:14.199
I don't.
1529
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:16.039
I don't go as far as as as he does,
1530
01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:19.079
like in terms of because he's got some out there,
1531
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:21.880
but like beliefs in terms of the Annaki and the
1532
01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:24.159
beer and all that.
1533
01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:27.079
But it's just the Sphinx that I buy into I'm
1534
01:17:27.279 --> 01:17:28.560
I'm sold on the.
1535
01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.800
I thought the map, the peri RAS map chapter was
1536
01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:37.119
interesting and the lay lines are interesting, But you know,
1537
01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:39.479
I don't I don't have any committed opinion on that.
1538
01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:42.840
It is odd how everything is on that one line
1539
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:48.520
around the globe, how every mega structures.
1540
01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:51.119
Another question is, uh, do you think that.
1541
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.239
The with with the way that the CIA and FBI
1542
01:17:56.279 --> 01:18:00.319
operated in Hollywood, do you think that had any kind
1543
01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:03.840
of effect on what happened with Marilyn Monroe? Would you
1544
01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:07.159
say that kind of you know, did she get caught
1545
01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:09.439
up in something that she was taken out, you know,
1546
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:12.159
because a lot of people say that she was killed
1547
01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:13.159
she did an overdose.
1548
01:18:14.119 --> 01:18:16.760
I think that's very likely. I mean, she did work
1549
01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:19.199
for the Department of Defense. That's verified. You can look
1550
01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:23.079
up her DoD badge that she used.
1551
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.239
She was a.
1552
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:30.000
Frequent visitor to Laurel Canyon Studios, which, if you're familiar
1553
01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:31.479
with my book, I put that in there from Dave
1554
01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:35.359
McGowan's book. So that was a secret Air Force studio,
1555
01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:39.199
by the way, which wasn't really known about until pretty recently.
1556
01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:42.560
That and I went and visited this place firsthand, by
1557
01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:44.640
the way, So I have empirical evidence. I got a
1558
01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:47.800
picture right out in front of it with my girlfriend.
1559
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:50.119
And I and that's now Jared Ledo's house. By the way.
1560
01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:54.319
He owns the old Air Force studio in Hollywood, which
1561
01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:56.399
was actually the cutting edge studio of his time. They
1562
01:18:56.520 --> 01:19:00.000
produced the atomic bomb footage and everything. So Laurel Canyon
1563
01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.920
is a good thing to look at for older Air
1564
01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:06.680
Force CI a collusion with Hollywood, but I would say
1565
01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:08.880
it's very likely. I've read a couple of books on
1566
01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:12.560
the Marilyn Monroe situation, and I think that given she's
1567
01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.920
with JFK and there's that tie in with the CIA
1568
01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:19.840
and the Mob and Sinatra, she wrote she claimed, you
1569
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:22.399
know that she was kind of under constant surveillance and
1570
01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:26.199
uh that that they were given her pills. I'm sure
1571
01:19:26.199 --> 01:19:28.159
she wanted pills. I'm not saying it was you know,
1572
01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:30.920
I'm sure she was addicted to drugs. But I would
1573
01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:33.399
say probably likely. Although you know, I don't claim to
1574
01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:36.840
have like any definitive opinion on like, you know, murder
1575
01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:37.760
conspiracies like that.
1576
01:19:37.800 --> 01:19:39.680
I think Britney Murphy was probably killed.
1577
01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:42.560
Kyle, do you mind if I ask a couple now
1578
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:47.079
that we're on the committed or the conspiracy's topic, because
1579
01:19:47.359 --> 01:19:48.000
because you bought them.
1580
01:19:49.119 --> 01:19:51.600
But sure, I just want to say that sounds like
1581
01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:53.800
that that's such a jered thing to do.
1582
01:19:55.199 --> 01:20:00.000
Oh yeah, yeah, it's a full house too. It's awesome.
1583
01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:00.159
OK.
1584
01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.359
I'm curious if you have a committed opinion on You
1585
01:20:03.399 --> 01:20:05.399
brought it up, but you already said that that wasn't
1586
01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:07.560
a representation of any You weren't committing to anything on
1587
01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:09.880
the moon landing, conspiracy or the studio. I want to
1588
01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:12.560
know if you have a committed opinion on the moon
1589
01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:15.319
landing and the use of the studio. But as you
1590
01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:17.920
do in the book, at least mention I'm pretty sure
1591
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.760
you say that some of the footage for sure was
1592
01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:22.840
done from the studio. But if I'm wrong, correct me.
1593
01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:25.359
I don't mention any specific studio.
1594
01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:29.000
I say that I think it's likely that it could
1595
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.680
have been Lookout Mountain or something like that. But no,
1596
01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:36.560
I tend to disagree. I tend to doubt the images
1597
01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:40.560
and the photography that we've seen. I find Dave mcgawan's
1598
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:42.800
book Wagging the Moon Doggie to be the most convincing.
1599
01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.359
I don't really go into the look at the angle
1600
01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:48.319
of the shadow on the flag, or rather, what Dave
1601
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:50.760
does in his book is just source it from NASA's
1602
01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:54.159
own claims over the years, claims of different astronauts over
1603
01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:56.800
the years. And yeah, I mean, I'm not a flat earther.
1604
01:20:56.920 --> 01:20:59.640
I don't believe that satellites are fake, or space is fake,
1605
01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:02.439
or any thing retarded like that have been. But but
1606
01:21:03.079 --> 01:21:05.600
I do doubt the the images that we've been shown.
1607
01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:07.359
Do you believe we.
1608
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:10.079
Ever even if it, have we ever been in the moon?
1609
01:21:10.159 --> 01:21:10.319
Right?
1610
01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:12.079
That would be the simple I.
1611
01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:14.640
Have not seen I've not seen anything that that's convincing.
1612
01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:15.039
Uh.
1613
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:18.720
And I know that may sound out landish, but when.
1614
01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:22.359
You look at the the the possibility of you know,
1615
01:21:22.600 --> 01:21:24.880
what is it two hundred and something thousand miles has
1616
01:21:24.920 --> 01:21:26.279
been a while since I've looked at the moons that
1617
01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:29.399
you two hundred and forty two hundred thousand and then back.
1618
01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:30.760
I mean, have you ever have you ever driven?
1619
01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:30.960
Like?
1620
01:21:34.039 --> 01:21:35.960
No, But I also haven't driven at the speed of
1621
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:36.560
a rocket.
1622
01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:41.279
Yeah, I wasn't going that fast. Well, if if if
1623
01:21:41.279 --> 01:21:43.399
we do go back to the moon, yeah, planning, I
1624
01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:46.359
know that, But would it be devastating to your your
1625
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:49.359
pistological framework if, for example, the Chinese went there, and
1626
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:52.560
would you then say, oh, yeah, we've probably been there
1627
01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:53.600
before or matter.
1628
01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:56.520
I'm just making my claim based on you know, what's
1629
01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:59.199
in Dave's book and and what I when I look
1630
01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:01.439
at those images and the idea of playing golf on
1631
01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:03.720
the moon, I think that's other utterly preposterous. I mean,
1632
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:06.880
you have this life threatening situation, you have a life
1633
01:22:06.920 --> 01:22:09.439
threatening situation, and the and the I mean that's the
1634
01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:14.399
that's most obvious to me. That's that's uh, that's cold
1635
01:22:14.439 --> 01:22:18.600
war propaganda. And I was in a tin can with
1636
01:22:18.640 --> 01:22:22.640
my girlfriend driving five thousand miles and the idea that
1637
01:22:22.640 --> 01:22:25.560
that that, uh, that you're going to be able to
1638
01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:29.000
make that that ride and where were the buggies by
1639
01:22:29.039 --> 01:22:32.119
the way, or the little moon buggies stashed on the
1640
01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:37.560
Apollo uh device, I would just say, I would.
1641
01:22:37.319 --> 01:22:39.960
Just say, wait, guys, I think we need to I
1642
01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:42.600
think we need to to table this because this this
1643
01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:43.239
sounds like a.
1644
01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:46.239
I've been wanting to.
1645
01:22:52.760 --> 01:22:53.760
Always kills the fun.
1646
01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:56.640
I'm just going to say one thing. I didn't really
1647
01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:59.920
have any commitment on this position. I believe aerospace is real.
1648
01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:04.119
I believe rockets are real. But I find I find
1649
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:07.119
Dave's book, which you can get free pdf online Wagging
1650
01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:07.840
the Moon Doggie.
1651
01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:09.359
I find it to be pretty convincing.
1652
01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:13.000
So if anybody's read that book and they're still defending it, uh,
1653
01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:15.439
I think the jokes on you.
1654
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:21.600
So what about the debate that I've wanted to have
1655
01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:24.439
eventually since we started the show.
1656
01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:27.720
I can't never find anybody that's willing to, uh to.
1657
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:31.319
Come on to defend the position that we didn't go
1658
01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:34.960
to the moon. So I don't know if you if
1659
01:23:34.960 --> 01:23:36.880
you ever want to come back and do that, that
1660
01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:39.600
would be excellent. But guys, if you're out there and you, uh,
1661
01:23:40.039 --> 01:23:41.720
you don't think it went to the moon, getting in
1662
01:23:41.840 --> 01:23:44.760
contact with us because I would love to. The space
1663
01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:47.319
debates are my favorite, Like I get all into those.
1664
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:51.800
So maybe this is this is not something that that's
1665
01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:52.760
that important to me.
1666
01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:56.680
Really, Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, I don't. I
1667
01:23:56.680 --> 01:23:58.039
don't think we should put him on the spot if
1668
01:23:58.039 --> 01:23:58.800
that's really not what.
1669
01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:00.920
He but but yeah, I mean I could want I
1670
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:05.359
can ponder it, and yeah, maybe down the road, Yeah.
1671
01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:05.159
I'd like to know.
1672
01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:08.119
I'd like to know if you have an opinion on
1673
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:09.800
the size of the universe and the idea that we
1674
01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:13.760
are seeing stars that exceed millions of years to get
1675
01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:14.720
the light to us.
1676
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:17.359
It's big, very big.
1677
01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:19.439
I don't. I don't.
1678
01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:23.319
I don't believe any anything now, anything associated with flat Earth.
1679
01:24:23.319 --> 01:24:24.760
If that's what you're asking, Do I think that their
1680
01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:27.039
print picture the pin pricks in a.
1681
01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:28.760
In a asking more young Earth?
1682
01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:32.479
You know he's asking, I'm actually this is creationism? Is
1683
01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:35.119
the universe's science? Ponders it to be.
1684
01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:39.359
Yeah, well I don't. I don't see that as out
1685
01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:41.680
of a chord with UH with creation personally.
1686
01:24:44.359 --> 01:24:46.560
I guess the way we if you believe the universe
1687
01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:51.439
originated at the moment of in Genesis, what would then
1688
01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:54.119
be the explanation for and I don't know exactly the
1689
01:24:54.159 --> 01:24:57.119
age you believe, so I'll take a million years because
1690
01:24:57.159 --> 01:24:59.640
that certainly covers if it's only six thousand or ten thousand,
1691
01:25:00.319 --> 01:25:04.000
anything that's beyond a million years of For the amount
1692
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:06.279
of time it takes light to travel, what would be
1693
01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:08.079
the explanation for that light having traveled over?
1694
01:25:08.159 --> 01:25:08.880
That problem?
1695
01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:11.159
The problem with that view is that it assumes that
1696
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:13.439
you have a fixed point in space and that light
1697
01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:19.880
is traveling at a consistent rate over the over.
1698
01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:25.319
Basically, you have an assumption of consistency, and there's not a.
1699
01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:28.840
Way to prove that the ratio or the rate of
1700
01:25:29.159 --> 01:25:33.159
light's travel has been the same throughout throughout all time.
1701
01:25:33.880 --> 01:25:36.600
So I think that's highly speculative as well. I think
1702
01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:40.640
it's one of the weakest arguments for the idea of
1703
01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:43.199
the expansion of the universe. So in other words, everything
1704
01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:45.199
has to be expanding in a certain direction, and it
1705
01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:47.399
assumes that there's a fixed point and there's not.
1706
01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:49.479
There's not a fixed point in space.
1707
01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:52.680
I mean, it's met the burden of predictive power and
1708
01:25:52.760 --> 01:25:56.359
being able to actually say, if the Big Bang happened,
1709
01:25:56.359 --> 01:26:00.359
for occurred, for example, we would find this stuff in
1710
01:26:00.399 --> 01:26:03.319
this place at this distance, as they did when they
1711
01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:06.199
measured the background radiation.
1712
01:26:06.520 --> 01:26:10.319
So yeah, I mean I don't see that as good.
1713
01:26:11.359 --> 01:26:13.840
Well, I mean I've had college astronomy classes, and I
1714
01:26:13.880 --> 01:26:16.800
know about how they measure, you know, background radiation, and
1715
01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:19.600
I think a lot of those methods are actually flawed.
1716
01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:23.600
I don't find them to be very convinced. But that again,
1717
01:26:23.640 --> 01:26:25.479
that's a whole other debate. I'm not opposed. I'm not
1718
01:26:25.520 --> 01:26:26.680
opposed to having that debate.
1719
01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:30.199
But yeah, Joe, I know I get you, and I
1720
01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:32.479
think that probably should be tabled for another time on
1721
01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:34.880
those types of things. It's a kind of a whole
1722
01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:36.520
off topic kind of thing. And I get that. So
1723
01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:38.600
we do have we do have questions from the audience,
1724
01:26:39.399 --> 01:26:40.760
quite a few actions, but try to get as many
1725
01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:42.159
as I can. But don't get you a question. Please
1726
01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:43.479
don't take a personally. But I did want to add
1727
01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:46.640
on your geenographic research. You know, that's that's something that's
1728
01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:48.600
not just among the CI in those things. I mean
1729
01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:51.079
businesses ethnographic research when they want to go overseas and
1730
01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:52.960
they want to build it in other places. So and
1731
01:26:52.960 --> 01:26:54.880
and I can see why Hollywood want as well, because
1732
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:56.279
they want to know the demographic in the area that
1733
01:26:56.279 --> 01:26:58.600
they can be releasing a movie. So I think that's
1734
01:26:58.640 --> 01:27:00.399
pretty standard in industry that they do some kind of
1735
01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:04.920
ethnographic research. But anyways, so these kind of questions, let's
1736
01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:07.000
see here, I like, I like a couple of these
1737
01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:08.920
more than others. Ione to be reading those first. Sorry,
1738
01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:11.760
but they say, ask Jay why somebody should actually care
1739
01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:14.720
about hidden symbols and how they could reasonably influence people
1740
01:27:14.720 --> 01:27:16.439
that are not aware of their meaning. And that's a
1741
01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:18.199
great question. Actually, If people are not aware what these
1742
01:27:18.239 --> 01:27:20.600
are cult symbols mean, how does it influence them in
1743
01:27:20.640 --> 01:27:21.680
some way?
1744
01:27:22.319 --> 01:27:25.159
Yeah, this gets into you know, different theories about human
1745
01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:28.479
psychology and how the brain works and how our mind
1746
01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:30.359
you know, subconsciously picks things up.
1747
01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:31.760
Things up. Excuse me?
1748
01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:35.000
So, uh, you know, there are certain archetypal forms, and
1749
01:27:35.039 --> 01:27:37.680
if you study something like the trivium or the quadrivium,
1750
01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:39.800
which is the classical forms of education, which I'm a
1751
01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:42.760
big proponent of, you'll notice that there are there are
1752
01:27:42.760 --> 01:27:44.520
are I believe there are archetypal forms.
1753
01:27:44.560 --> 01:27:45.199
So things like.
1754
01:27:46.720 --> 01:27:49.680
Principles in geometry like the hexagram or the square, or
1755
01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:50.800
the platonic solids.
1756
01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:52.880
These are things that are very real and they're they're
1757
01:27:53.039 --> 01:27:53.960
present in nature.
1758
01:27:54.319 --> 01:27:57.119
So I would say that it's actually natural to man
1759
01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:00.079
to be influenced by these things and interpret these things
1760
01:28:00.119 --> 01:28:02.000
even and almost in an.
1761
01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:04.319
Intuitive way without even knowing it.
1762
01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:08.920
So, and I think infant infant research has has confirmed this.
1763
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:12.199
We've even known this then, this since p P figured
1764
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:14.800
out that that infants actually pick things up and can
1765
01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:17.880
be conditioned, so to speak, whether you want to call
1766
01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:19.520
it programmed or whether you want to use you know,
1767
01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:22.680
mass laws of terminology or be of skinner terminology of
1768
01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:27.520
of uh of conditioning. Condition doesn't matter because it's essentially
1769
01:28:27.560 --> 01:28:31.000
offering condition. It's essentially you know, training people or it's
1770
01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:34.720
sometimes called entrainment where you where you imprint this on people,
1771
01:28:35.960 --> 01:28:39.560
and and archetypal forms and symbols have that power, I believe.
1772
01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:41.680
But that's a whole other, big, long discussion.
1773
01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:43.079
But do you think they have an intrinsic meaning? Do
1774
01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:45.119
you think these symbols literally have some kind of intrinsic
1775
01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:48.359
meaning that so they're not descriptivism. It's it's you think
1776
01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:51.560
it falls under prescriptivism, then absolutely prescribe.
1777
01:28:52.039 --> 01:28:57.079
Okay, Yeah, I believe meaning and level. Yeah.
1778
01:28:57.119 --> 01:29:01.680
I believe in the reality of immaterial invariant objects and entities.
1779
01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:05.000
I believe. Yeah, I believe in a kind of a psychosphere.
1780
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:06.720
I mean I had.
1781
01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:09.319
Plants.
1782
01:29:10.760 --> 01:29:14.479
I mean I'm not a flat Yeah.
1783
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:21.600
Okay, let's see here something. I don't know what this means,
1784
01:29:21.640 --> 01:29:24.319
so pretty please forgive me, but I'll ask it. Ask
1785
01:29:24.439 --> 01:29:26.399
Jay his thoughts on number stations. Do you know what
1786
01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:27.159
they're referring to?
1787
01:29:28.479 --> 01:29:30.159
Yeah? I think I can't remember if I mentioned in
1788
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:30.760
the book or not.
1789
01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:32.199
But I have a couple of essays I wrote in
1790
01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:34.159
a number stations, and these come out of the Cold War.
1791
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:37.159
They were set up, oftentimes by the n Essay and
1792
01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:41.880
they were basically stations to relay information to agents out
1793
01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:44.439
in the field. So you would have like a number
1794
01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:47.520
station set up in say Norway or somewhere in the
1795
01:29:47.720 --> 01:29:49.039
A lot of these still exist, by the way, and
1796
01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:51.560
they still put out their signals and they would just
1797
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.239
put out something like beeps.
1798
01:29:52.960 --> 01:29:55.159
Or a song just play on repeat.
1799
01:29:56.079 --> 01:29:58.600
And the idea was that during the Cold War, the
1800
01:29:58.680 --> 01:30:01.199
other side wouldn't know what your code was, and if
1801
01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:04.119
you wanted to activate a cell in a certain area,
1802
01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:08.800
then you would put the message into the relay, into
1803
01:30:08.840 --> 01:30:12.560
the whatever's being sent out. And so like if you
1804
01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:15.399
watch the Americans that that show on Fax, which I
1805
01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:18.079
thought was pretty good. I mean, it's obviously Hollywood, but
1806
01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:21.039
it's based on a lot of real world Soviet Cold
1807
01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:24.880
Wars type stuff. And there's several scenes in the series
1808
01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:27.399
where he goes and he like turns the radio and
1809
01:30:27.439 --> 01:30:29.800
he listens to the you know, some little jingle and
1810
01:30:29.840 --> 01:30:31.399
he writes down numbers, and.
1811
01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:34.399
That's how he knows what Moscow is telling him to do.
1812
01:30:34.479 --> 01:30:37.319
So that's very real and that still exists in number stations,
1813
01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:40.800
by the way, play into how we got cell phones
1814
01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:43.319
and internet and wireless technology because all of that comes
1815
01:30:43.319 --> 01:30:46.680
out of Cold War cryptography.
1816
01:30:46.880 --> 01:30:47.960
It's a badass show too.
1817
01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:53.119
Yeah, it makes sense, and maybe maybe Jimmy can kind
1818
01:30:53.119 --> 01:30:54.560
of wig in this one as well. If this is
1819
01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:56.560
the case, if you answered the student of the affirmative,
1820
01:30:56.920 --> 01:30:59.199
but does Jay believe that CIA has an agenda to
1821
01:30:59.239 --> 01:31:02.319
sway individuals and Satanism? In other words, does JA believe
1822
01:31:02.359 --> 01:31:04.199
that the agenda is to move people away from God
1823
01:31:04.239 --> 01:31:05.479
in some way? Do you think there's some kind of
1824
01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:09.000
underlying thing to move away from a from a deity belief,
1825
01:31:09.319 --> 01:31:14.680
to promote some kind of either atheism or satan Satanism.
1826
01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:17.560
I think that Satanic cults definitely play a role in
1827
01:31:17.600 --> 01:31:21.359
the CI's overall strategies and plans. I don't know that
1828
01:31:21.399 --> 01:31:25.079
it's necessarily uh to get everybody into Satanism. I do
1829
01:31:25.159 --> 01:31:28.560
think they use occult groups and occult ideologies UH to
1830
01:31:28.640 --> 01:31:32.359
be to be popularized. And I would say, yeah, overall,
1831
01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:36.479
that does play a role in moving mass populations, but
1832
01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:38.119
it's certainly not the only.
1833
01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:40.840
Ideology that they peddle.
1834
01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:46.720
Well in that scenario with Satanism, in that scenario with
1835
01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:51.600
Satanism include anything that is in direct opposition to Orthodoxy,
1836
01:31:51.680 --> 01:31:54.119
or would other Christian in other words, would would they
1837
01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:57.479
be doing so via other Christian symbols, just not the
1838
01:31:57.560 --> 01:31:58.680
right Christian symbols.
1839
01:31:58.720 --> 01:31:59.880
Would that?
1840
01:32:00.079 --> 01:32:02.760
I just meant it in a very very precise sense.
1841
01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:05.600
I wasn't speaking it in the sense of yeah, okay,
1842
01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:10.079
spiritually speaking, Yeah, we believe that that anything that's not
1843
01:32:10.279 --> 01:32:13.319
Orthodox ultimately can be used in that way. That doesn't
1844
01:32:13.319 --> 01:32:16.159
mean that everybody who's not Orthodox is evil or Satanic.
1845
01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:18.800
It just means that those things can fit into that agenda.
1846
01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:22.239
I mean, for example, not every Marxist is a Satanist,
1847
01:32:22.319 --> 01:32:26.560
but I would say it root Marxism is in my view, Satanic,
1848
01:32:26.640 --> 01:32:29.399
so to speak. And that's because Marx. If you read
1849
01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:33.960
Richard Vernbrand's book, he demonstrates that Marx was influenced by
1850
01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:35.680
Satanism in his early days.
1851
01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:41.159
Okay, I think we got two two.
1852
01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:46.279
More tew more questions. Okay, ask him what he thinks
1853
01:32:46.319 --> 01:32:48.359
of Mark Hamill and Kathy O'Brien, and I'm not sure
1854
01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:51.880
the relevancy, but we'll ask.
1855
01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:55.720
I think I think Luke Skywalker is al Luke is
1856
01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.359
an inceel in the new.
1857
01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:05.600
No. Oh no, he's on an island and he's milking.
1858
01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:07.720
He's milking sister.
1859
01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:10.680
So yeah, I mean he probably I was mostly traumatized.
1860
01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:11.159
After that.
1861
01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:14.600
I wouldn't be done with it. Have you seen my sister.
1862
01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:17.920
Kathy O'Brien. I mean, I don't know.
1863
01:33:17.960 --> 01:33:20.199
A lot of her claims are hard to substantiate, so
1864
01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:22.920
I've never really relied on I'm not saying she's a
1865
01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:26.920
bad person. My girlfriend knows Kathy O'Brien. She's friendly with her,
1866
01:33:26.960 --> 01:33:29.840
she thinks she's sweet. But I don't have any pro
1867
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:32.520
or con argument about Kathrie Oro. I've never really paid
1868
01:33:32.600 --> 01:33:33.119
any attention.
1869
01:33:35.439 --> 01:33:42.319
Okay, and uh, well ahead, Steve, last one, your your
1870
01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:43.119
mud to state.
1871
01:33:45.880 --> 01:33:49.760
My bad. The Alumnimonnadi didn't want me to get this out.
1872
01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:52.760
He said, how does Jay make the distinction between normal
1873
01:33:52.840 --> 01:33:56.039
societal structures such as corporate culture and cult conspiracy? And
1874
01:33:56.039 --> 01:33:58.560
by the way, if you could maybe suss out cult
1875
01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:00.479
a little bit more, because I still personally and I
1876
01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:02.039
know I am confused, and I know the live chat
1877
01:34:02.079 --> 01:34:05.119
is whether you're taking cult from a theological type of perspective,
1878
01:34:05.119 --> 01:34:08.560
where you're talking about a there's different categorizations of what
1879
01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:12.159
cans to be cultish as what could be a cult group.
1880
01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:15.479
And then there's also more of the orthodoxy approach to cultism.
1881
01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:17.039
So if you can sus that out little bit more.
1882
01:34:17.039 --> 01:34:19.199
But they want to know if you make a distinction
1883
01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:22.319
between normal societal structures just as a corporate entities or
1884
01:34:22.359 --> 01:34:28.720
corporate cultures as opposed to the cult conspiracy. That makes sense.
1885
01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:32.600
Yeah, again, I don't try to say that like everybody
1886
01:34:32.680 --> 01:34:36.199
who like David Rockefeller, if you read his memoirs, he
1887
01:34:36.279 --> 01:34:40.359
will talk about conspiracies. For example, he will admit I've
1888
01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:43.159
got his memoirs here somewhere.
1889
01:34:43.319 --> 01:34:43.960
Yeah, right here.
1890
01:34:44.359 --> 01:34:46.680
So David Rockefeller and his and his memoirs, and I
1891
01:34:46.680 --> 01:34:50.880
think he's a very powerful, famous individual who's had a
1892
01:34:50.920 --> 01:34:52.640
lot of influence on American culture.
1893
01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:59.199
And then if you look at chapter I've got it
1894
01:34:59.239 --> 01:35:00.039
marked here.
1895
01:35:02.399 --> 01:35:06.720
Chapter twenty seven called the Proud Internationalist, where he basically
1896
01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:11.279
says that the people who accuse him of conspiracy are correct,
1897
01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:14.159
and he says that I am proud to be a
1898
01:35:14.199 --> 01:35:17.760
globalist and not a populist. So he's quite he's quite
1899
01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:21.000
clear about the goals. Chapter twenty seven Dave Roulers and
1900
01:35:21.000 --> 01:35:27.640
Memoirs of the Internationalist and their idea to create a
1901
01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:31.319
global government and so forth. So I would say that
1902
01:35:31.399 --> 01:35:34.720
David Rockefeller is very open I don't have any evidence
1903
01:35:34.800 --> 01:35:37.800
that David Rockefeller isn't accultist. I've never seen anything that
1904
01:35:37.920 --> 01:35:42.159
proves he's a Luciferian or a Satanist or anything like that.
1905
01:35:42.720 --> 01:35:45.680
He seems to be a pragmatic atheist who basically just
1906
01:35:45.720 --> 01:35:48.600
wants to create world government and kill most of humanity.
1907
01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:52.039
That's what he seems to say openly. So I wouldn't
1908
01:35:52.079 --> 01:35:54.560
say he's an occultist. I wouldn't say, but I would
1909
01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:57.960
say that he is part of an overall plan and strategy.
1910
01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:59.800
And so what I do at my channel, for example,
1911
01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:03.520
as I do lectures based on these books, I have
1912
01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:06.000
about fifteen or twenty that I've gone through so far,
1913
01:36:06.039 --> 01:36:13.319
which are major globalist thinkers, geopoliticians, writers, Brazinski, those level guys,
1914
01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:17.399
and I just talk about what's in their books. We
1915
01:36:17.479 --> 01:36:21.239
do like a weekly book reading thing. So what I'm
1916
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:23.840
getting at is that they don't necessarily have to be
1917
01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:27.279
a cultist to have the same plans and ideas. So
1918
01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:31.479
when I say occult sometimes I'm referring to just secret knowledge.
1919
01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:34.359
That's what the word means, and so intelligence agencies. Because
1920
01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:37.840
they traffic in secrets, they could be called occult organizations.
1921
01:36:38.119 --> 01:36:41.199
Sometimes I'm referring, though, to secret societies like Skull and
1922
01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:47.319
Bones or the Oto, or to Freemasonry, which are consciously
1923
01:36:47.439 --> 01:36:50.800
secret societies that traffic in secret information and also have
1924
01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:55.000
hermitic and occultic beliefs, the Rosicrucians and so forth. So
1925
01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:58.319
I'm very precise, I would say in the ways that
1926
01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:02.199
I make distinctions. I'm well aware of that Anton LaVey's
1927
01:37:02.399 --> 01:37:04.960
Satanism is more of a humanism and it's atheism.
1928
01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:05.800
I'm well aware of that.
1929
01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:08.920
I'm well aware of Michael Lokino's Temple of Set being
1930
01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:11.840
more serious about it Satanism. So I think I'm pretty
1931
01:37:11.840 --> 01:37:14.560
fair and clear in the distinctions that I've made.
1932
01:37:15.600 --> 01:37:19.239
So you don't think worship Satan or Jimmy to you, well,
1933
01:37:19.239 --> 01:37:20.960
the three of us, we're not Satan worshippers to you.
1934
01:37:20.960 --> 01:37:25.359
Right, I don't know you guys, so I don't I mean,
1935
01:37:25.359 --> 01:37:27.000
I assume you do. I don't know.
1936
01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:29.520
Answer, I guess, I mean.
1937
01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:34.399
And then the last, the one last question, what conspiracy
1938
01:37:34.439 --> 01:37:36.359
theory do you absolutely disagree with?
1939
01:37:37.920 --> 01:37:39.960
I hate the flat earth big time.
1940
01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:46.880
Flat Earth is silly. You hear that flat earth is
1941
01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:52.000
a simple expert guy. He thinks flat earth is born.
1942
01:37:53.119 --> 01:37:56.119
I had a like, actually a giant band of them
1943
01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:58.520
attack my channel one day and just like thumbed down
1944
01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:00.640
and it was just all a boy kissed me off.
1945
01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:07.239
I had a question or something along the same light.
1946
01:38:07.279 --> 01:38:10.119
That's relevant because it's relevant to uh C I A
1947
01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:13.000
driven conspiracies. I'd love to know what his if he
1948
01:38:13.039 --> 01:38:16.079
has a truth riism position, the idea about September eleventh
1949
01:38:16.119 --> 01:38:17.640
being an inside job.
1950
01:38:18.479 --> 01:38:19.560
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
1951
01:38:19.600 --> 01:38:24.159
I think that's unquestionable, unquestionable that it was an inside job.
1952
01:38:24.640 --> 01:38:25.239
Is that what you're saying?
1953
01:38:25.520 --> 01:38:30.119
Okay, sorry, I've I've done word games before where someone
1954
01:38:30.119 --> 01:38:31.880
asked do you have a position, and I say, yes,
1955
01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:33.039
I do, and that's where I left it.
1956
01:38:33.039 --> 01:38:34.399
So I just made sure you weren't doing the same
1957
01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:35.600
thing I've done before as a joke.
1958
01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:39.640
No, I haven't. I haven't covered it. I haven't covered
1959
01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:41.760
in a while just because it hasn't come up. But no,
1960
01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:45.520
I think that was pretty clearly an inside job collusion
1961
01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:51.479
between Western intelligence, the PNAT group, Neo conservatives, probably Israeli intelligence,
1962
01:38:51.520 --> 01:38:52.239
and groups like that.
1963
01:38:52.399 --> 01:38:53.920
So that's who really did it. I don't think it's
1964
01:38:53.920 --> 01:38:55.399
been lot and been laden was a long time.
1965
01:38:55.479 --> 01:39:00.399
CIA said, So how attached would it be this pooh,
1966
01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:01.359
are we out of time?
1967
01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:03.199
Yeah?
1968
01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:06.239
How attached to that? No?
1969
01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:06.800
No, no, not you.
1970
01:39:06.920 --> 01:39:09.000
I want to know how attached this group, these groups
1971
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:13.920
would be to these same groups that exist behind the
1972
01:39:13.960 --> 01:39:15.079
symbology in movies.
1973
01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:17.000
Simpolis.
1974
01:39:17.359 --> 01:39:20.479
Well, I think that when I when I do my talks,
1975
01:39:20.520 --> 01:39:25.560
for example, on global power structures geopolitics, I'm going to
1976
01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:28.399
cover pretty standard works that that.
1977
01:39:29.920 --> 01:39:31.079
Shouldn't really be.
1978
01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:34.760
Too debatable, Like you know, we're going to do the
1979
01:39:34.760 --> 01:39:37.000
big ne Brazienski's Grand Chess Board. You know, he was
1980
01:39:37.119 --> 01:39:41.079
obviously the guy who created al Qaeda under Jimmy Carter,
1981
01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:42.520
that's very easy to verify.
1982
01:39:43.399 --> 01:39:46.199
I cover uh, his other book.
1983
01:39:46.079 --> 01:39:48.680
Between Two Ages, which is written in the seventies and
1984
01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:51.439
talks about creating basically a giant technocracy.
1985
01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:56.199
But the main sort of central work that I focus.
1986
01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:59.600
On that answers your very question about power blocks is
1987
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:02.560
Carol Quigley's Tragy and Hope. So I have eight lectures
1988
01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:05.399
on the totality of all thirteen hundred pages, and this
1989
01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:07.680
is one of the most famous geopolitical treatises of the
1990
01:40:07.680 --> 01:40:11.680
twentieth century, and he describes, you know, large power blocks,
1991
01:40:11.720 --> 01:40:15.680
and for him, we live in the atlantisist power blocks.
1992
01:40:15.760 --> 01:40:18.600
That would be the US, the UK, and Israel, and
1993
01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:21.640
so they pretty much control the Western world in a
1994
01:40:21.720 --> 01:40:24.439
large part of the rest of the globe. So that's
1995
01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:27.840
how I see geopolitics shaking out, and that's who.
1996
01:40:27.880 --> 01:40:29.520
In a large part controls Hollywood.
1997
01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:35.239
And we're gonna have to because the same people that
1998
01:40:35.319 --> 01:40:37.600
created the CIA is the CIA is actually a creation
1999
01:40:37.680 --> 01:40:40.760
of the Rockefellers and British intelligence. I mean, they're not
2000
01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:43.560
going the Hollywood's not going to do something different than
2001
01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:46.560
what this overall power structure wants, which is why, for example,
2002
01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:51.560
they demonize Russia. Hollywood across the board demonizes Russia, Russia, collusion, Trump,
2003
01:40:51.560 --> 01:40:52.199
all that stuff.
2004
01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:55.199
That's all pretty much top down.
2005
01:40:56.399 --> 01:40:57.880
We're gonna have to be wrapping it up. So how
2006
01:40:57.880 --> 01:40:59.079
about we kind of let you guys.
2007
01:40:59.199 --> 01:41:00.800
We're going to have to come back to UH to
2008
01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:05.600
finish that. Well yeah, hell yeah, that.
2009
01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:09.520
Was definitely be a conversation. I'd be way more excited by.
2010
01:41:11.199 --> 01:41:13.520
At two hours. But I would love to hear the
2011
01:41:13.520 --> 01:41:15.640
rest of where you're well.
2012
01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:20.279
Can I ask m yeah, oh yeah, yeah, if you
2013
01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:22.239
want to ask questions, we have a little bit of
2014
01:41:22.359 --> 01:41:24.960
time for that, that's fine, go ahead, please.
2015
01:41:25.039 --> 01:41:26.359
Well, no, I was just gonna say, I was just
2016
01:41:26.359 --> 01:41:29.279
gonna say, like, have you guys looked at Brazenski or
2017
01:41:29.399 --> 01:41:31.760
like Jock out to Lee? Like what I do is
2018
01:41:31.760 --> 01:41:34.600
basically just cover all these guys books and and I mean.
2019
01:41:34.479 --> 01:41:39.840
They're they're No, Honestly, I didn't actually read the book.
2020
01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:41.199
I just like to post it notes in there.
2021
01:41:42.439 --> 01:41:47.600
I don't actually, you know, some research, but I don't
2022
01:41:47.600 --> 01:41:48.960
look at any of them.
2023
01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:52.720
I haven't, But I find the I find the uh
2024
01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:58.920
arguments that like stuff like when I say that I'm
2025
01:41:58.960 --> 01:42:03.319
not conspiracy seriraucly minded, I still like to hear what
2026
01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:07.359
everybody's society is. Like, I'm fascinated by the arguments that
2027
01:42:07.399 --> 01:42:08.159
people put forth.
2028
01:42:09.560 --> 01:42:11.039
Yeah, like the last book that them two.
2029
01:42:12.600 --> 01:42:14.239
Yeah, that's actually going to be in my new book
2030
01:42:14.279 --> 01:42:16.520
because there are movies that have geoengineering.
2031
01:42:16.600 --> 01:42:18.560
So I'm actually going to include that in the second book.
2032
01:42:19.359 --> 01:42:21.680
Right now, I would love to have a chemictry episode.
2033
01:42:22.159 --> 01:42:24.399
I'll come on a debate debate that uh.
2034
01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:27.359
Right now, I'm covering uh Annie Jacobson's pretty famous book
2035
01:42:27.359 --> 01:42:30.359
on the history of DARPA, which is Pentagon's Brain. Uh,
2036
01:42:30.399 --> 01:42:33.319
and there's actually a chapter that gets into geoengineering. Now,
2037
01:42:33.359 --> 01:42:36.159
she's a mainline journalist, just chronicling the history of DARPA.
2038
01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:39.520
She's not a conspiracy theorist. So this was actually Pulitzer nominated.
2039
01:42:39.560 --> 01:42:43.039
So I always try to go from the mainline sources
2040
01:42:43.079 --> 01:42:45.000
to make my case. That's kind of my whole my
2041
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:45.560
whole bag.
2042
01:42:46.239 --> 01:42:48.319
You you do your research, and that I can. I
2043
01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:51.239
thought I can say that you don't don't do your research,
2044
01:42:51.239 --> 01:42:51.800
that's for sure.
2045
01:42:53.800 --> 01:42:57.079
But uh, I find the the the While I don't
2046
01:42:57.079 --> 01:42:59.439
agree with most conspiracy theories, I still like to hear
2047
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:02.279
the the arguments from both sides.
2048
01:43:02.279 --> 01:43:03.520
I think it's fascinating to have.
2049
01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:06.720
And you know, I don't see why people make such
2050
01:43:06.720 --> 01:43:10.840
a big deal about having things like the Kim Trail debates.
2051
01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:13.319
Are the anti factor, you know, any of those kinds
2052
01:43:13.319 --> 01:43:13.640
of things.
2053
01:43:13.680 --> 01:43:16.680
I think it's it's important to have those kinds of
2054
01:43:16.920 --> 01:43:19.000
discussions out in the open.
2055
01:43:19.199 --> 01:43:23.439
Well, I'll tell you what challenge. Here's the challenge real quick,
2056
01:43:23.920 --> 01:43:26.760
then I'll shut up. If you go to my YouTube page,
2057
01:43:26.760 --> 01:43:31.560
there's a list of titled a playlist titled Globalist book series.
2058
01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:35.680
And then that's just my arguments from the different geopolitical
2059
01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:39.520
texts about you know, so called conspiracies that I think are.
2060
01:43:39.399 --> 01:43:43.800
Real awesome, and I'll look at I'll tell you what,
2061
01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:45.800
I'll look into one of yours.
2062
01:43:46.279 --> 01:43:49.640
If you at some point check out the Spinks, just.
2063
01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:54.399
Go and and read a little bit about the the
2064
01:43:54.439 --> 01:43:57.640
Sphinks and and tell me what you think I'm I have.
2065
01:43:57.760 --> 01:43:58.920
I have people that are.
2066
01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:04.760
Point ancient point collector that we have come on here.
2067
01:44:04.800 --> 01:44:07.960
All of them think that I'm just that shit crazy
2068
01:44:08.319 --> 01:44:11.479
for bringing up But I think.
2069
01:44:11.359 --> 01:44:13.119
There's guys think got bat shit crazy if you think
2070
01:44:13.119 --> 01:44:17.680
of colors don't exist though, so welcome to my work.
2071
01:44:17.840 --> 01:44:19.039
I don't think you're crazy for that.
2072
01:44:19.960 --> 01:44:22.079
Yeah, I know, I agree upon this.
2073
01:44:22.960 --> 01:44:26.119
I want to say I appreciate, uh, I appreciate the challenge,
2074
01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:28.960
mister atheist. I appreciate you conducting it in a very
2075
01:44:28.960 --> 01:44:31.119
civil way that I thought it was a very fruitful conversation.
2076
01:44:32.079 --> 01:44:33.079
I liked the critique.
2077
01:44:33.079 --> 01:44:36.119
I thought you do have a point there about uh,
2078
01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:38.359
you know, maybe and then maybe in the second book,
2079
01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:40.079
what I'll try to do is frame it in a
2080
01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:43.520
more uh like, let me prove.
2081
01:44:43.279 --> 01:44:46.239
My case to you from the outset rather than assuming.
2082
01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:47.319
So I'll take that.
2083
01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:49.600
I think that would be I think that would be important.
2084
01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:52.760
And I genuinely don't mean this in any way disparaging,
2085
01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:56.800
but I do think, especially toward the end of the conversation, uh,
2086
01:44:56.880 --> 01:44:59.520
where we started talking about other stuff, now, I would
2087
01:44:59.520 --> 01:45:02.399
almost need that just to get past that. It seems
2088
01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:05.279
the case that you have at the very least a
2089
01:45:05.359 --> 01:45:09.239
conspiratorial brain. Not say you embrace every conspiracy, but I
2090
01:45:09.279 --> 01:45:11.520
have new concerns because of some of the conspiracies you
2091
01:45:11.560 --> 01:45:13.960
do embrace. So I would want that second, second level
2092
01:45:13.960 --> 01:45:16.359
of connection to tell you the truth. If you aren't
2093
01:45:16.399 --> 01:45:18.640
willing to come to your current book and make the
2094
01:45:18.680 --> 01:45:22.800
presuppositions that the book calls for, it's not the easiest
2095
01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:25.159
read for you because you're going to keep hitting those moments.
2096
01:45:26.920 --> 01:45:29.000
And I'm just going to call this my conclusion and
2097
01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:31.039
let you respond to anything you want for yours that way,
2098
01:45:31.399 --> 01:45:31.760
because I.
2099
01:45:34.880 --> 01:45:36.000
Can I make one more point on it.
2100
01:45:37.720 --> 01:45:40.359
So yeah, Well, so the last part of the conclusion
2101
01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:42.520
was the other thing, the other issue I have with
2102
01:45:42.560 --> 01:45:45.560
the book that's now been exacerbated by our discussion or
2103
01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:47.960
debate or whatever we want to call this. Here was
2104
01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:51.039
now a pattern that seems to be emerging of your
2105
01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:54.439
embracing of sciences that seem to make your point or
2106
01:45:54.560 --> 01:46:00.520
be acceptable within your preps Orthodoxy worldview, things about psychcology,
2107
01:46:00.680 --> 01:46:05.079
but very dismissive of the sciences and quick to conclude
2108
01:46:05.119 --> 01:46:08.119
they themselves or cults and conspiracies if they interfere with
2109
01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:09.920
your orthodoxy worldview.
2110
01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:13.319
I mean, in fact, again, the positions that I believe
2111
01:46:13.439 --> 01:46:15.640
now or not positions I was raised with, or not
2112
01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:19.119
ones that I elected long ago to defend to the death.
2113
01:46:19.159 --> 01:46:22.199
I've changed my mind multiple times in my research and
2114
01:46:22.239 --> 01:46:26.039
academic career, so I just have a lot of different interests,
2115
01:46:26.079 --> 01:46:29.079
and I never came to any of these topics with
2116
01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:34.239
the assumption of conspiracy per se. I think that when
2117
01:46:34.319 --> 01:46:37.239
you look at anything like geopolitics, which is something that
2118
01:46:37.279 --> 01:46:40.039
I got into in the latter half of my academic career,
2119
01:46:40.239 --> 01:46:43.159
like later twenties and into grad school, is that you're
2120
01:46:43.159 --> 01:46:45.199
forced to This is something that if you go to
2121
01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:46.960
grad school you'll experience.
2122
01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:48.479
You're forced to defend your positions.
2123
01:46:49.039 --> 01:46:53.000
You can't just have a thing where you go to
2124
01:46:53.039 --> 01:46:55.359
the professors when you have to defend your case, and
2125
01:46:55.399 --> 01:46:58.800
you just say, well, here's what I want my argument
2126
01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:00.079
to be, and I'm only going to list the.
2127
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.439
Sources that I want. Now, the first thing that you
2128
01:47:02.479 --> 01:47:06.520
do is you debate the other side.
2129
01:47:06.560 --> 01:47:07.920
And so the only way that I would have ever
2130
01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:11.159
changed my mind, I'm just given an existential experience kind
2131
01:47:11.199 --> 01:47:12.680
of account here.
2132
01:47:12.720 --> 01:47:14.039
I'm not saying this proves anything.
2133
01:47:14.079 --> 01:47:17.439
I'm just saying that that I think I've been fairly
2134
01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:20.079
open minded. I've listened to, you know, tons of debates
2135
01:47:20.119 --> 01:47:23.520
from various perspectives. I don't think science is bad, nor
2136
01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:26.880
do I I disregard science effects. One of the things
2137
01:47:26.880 --> 01:47:29.119
that I focused on in grad school was the science
2138
01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:32.800
of cognition and the philosophy of science. So that's actually
2139
01:47:32.840 --> 01:47:35.359
something that's very crucial to a lot of the essays
2140
01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:38.479
I've written over the years. I just have different views
2141
01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:42.439
about how epistemology works, how metaphysics works, and those aren't
2142
01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:46.199
positions that I came to defend a conspiracy view or
2143
01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:51.760
to defend necessarily a theological view. Because I've interacted with
2144
01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:57.960
everything from Satanism to atheism, to Aristelianism to Platonism to Buddhism.
2145
01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:00.640
Different philosophy is over over the years.
2146
01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:03.119
So I would say I'm pretty pretty open minded to
2147
01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:06.560
being corrected or critiqued. Otherwise I wouldn't have come to
2148
01:48:06.600 --> 01:48:09.840
a position that's a so called conspiracy. But I think
2149
01:48:09.880 --> 01:48:13.680
when you look at big time globalist players and you
2150
01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:17.119
read their books, and I do a talk on that
2151
01:48:17.159 --> 01:48:20.960
guy's book and what he says, I mean, that's just research,
2152
01:48:21.079 --> 01:48:22.560
that's just citing the sources.
2153
01:48:22.600 --> 01:48:25.279
I don't see how that's even How can you even.
2154
01:48:25.199 --> 01:48:27.760
Say it's a conspiracy theory if you're if you're looking
2155
01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:30.079
at what Brazenski himself says, and if you don't know
2156
01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:31.640
Brezenski and how important he's been.
2157
01:48:32.399 --> 01:48:33.439
You know, I'm not dissing you.
2158
01:48:33.479 --> 01:48:36.159
I'm saying theoretically, if a person doesn't know his important role,
2159
01:48:36.760 --> 01:48:38.359
then that's really their own ignorance.
2160
01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:39.039
It's not my fault.
2161
01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:43.000
I won't because I said I would, But I did
2162
01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:44.600
want to say I'd love to come back.
2163
01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:46.600
And do Evolution with you sometime if you're down for it.
2164
01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:49.760
Yeah, we could probably fit that down eventually if I
2165
01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:52.279
can get free, Yeah for sure.
2166
01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:55.600
And we definitely want to have you back with Kim Trosty.
2167
01:48:55.720 --> 01:48:58.479
But I'm gonna let you guys kind of take us
2168
01:48:58.479 --> 01:49:02.520
out with uh, something about your your channel, what you've
2169
01:49:02.560 --> 01:49:05.119
got coming up. And also I wanted to ask Jay
2170
01:49:05.119 --> 01:49:06.399
when does your new book come out?
2171
01:49:08.399 --> 01:49:10.479
Right now, I'm in the process of finishing up the
2172
01:49:10.479 --> 01:49:14.840
sidebars and the citations, so I would say, and that
2173
01:49:15.039 --> 01:49:18.800
the best bet would probably be two three months.
2174
01:49:20.159 --> 01:49:20.399
Cool.
2175
01:49:24.399 --> 01:49:25.119
Yeah.
2176
01:49:25.720 --> 01:49:27.119
The only thing I want to add is I think
2177
01:49:27.319 --> 01:49:29.439
doing made a good critique on that that I think
2178
01:49:29.439 --> 01:49:31.800
that Jays actually is incorporating, which I think is a
2179
01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:34.159
brilliant thing, is that you know, your first book had
2180
01:49:34.199 --> 01:49:36.159
this one specific approach with I, by the way, don't
2181
01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:37.960
see a problem with I don't have an issue how
2182
01:49:37.960 --> 01:49:40.600
you approached it at all. But I also think that
2183
01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:42.159
the second book, if you're going to do it the
2184
01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:45.199
way Jimmy suggested that says, here's what my argument will be.
2185
01:49:45.319 --> 01:49:46.960
This is what I want to prove to you. Let
2186
01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:48.720
me see if I can make my argument. That's fine
2187
01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:50.840
as well. It's a different way of approaching it, but
2188
01:49:51.159 --> 01:49:52.720
it shows you can come out that you can come
2189
01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:54.920
at it from two different perspectives, and I think that's versatile.
2190
01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:59.159
I do want to specify without rehashing the argument.
2191
01:49:59.239 --> 01:50:02.520
My argument more to do with whether what the book
2192
01:50:02.560 --> 01:50:05.840
represents itself as versus what the book actually delivered in
2193
01:50:05.880 --> 01:50:08.479
that regard, but again not to reactually already imagine them
2194
01:50:08.479 --> 01:50:10.079
to make sure that that was clear.
2195
01:50:10.119 --> 01:50:13.479
Sure, okay, and did you want to talk about the episode?
2196
01:50:13.720 --> 01:50:15.680
Look before I've seated everything to close it out.
2197
01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:19.800
Oh yeah, before we before you end, our wonderful producer
2198
01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:22.479
who amazingly did such a great job on our audio
2199
01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:24.760
levels this time. People, you have noticed and they really
2200
01:50:24.760 --> 01:50:28.039
did a lot of work prior to this episode to
2201
01:50:28.279 --> 01:50:32.319
get off being normalized, so kudos to you. He will
2202
01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:35.039
be running an after show on the Great Debate Community Channel,
2203
01:50:35.079 --> 01:50:36.760
which is the community channel that we all kind of
2204
01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:39.600
just go to for various things. It will be streamed
2205
01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:41.039
from the non secord.
2206
01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:41.479
To Show Discord.
2207
01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:44.319
However, links will be in the video description, so if
2208
01:50:44.319 --> 01:50:45.960
you want to be a part of that, anybody can join.
2209
01:50:46.319 --> 01:50:48.079
Just you need a discord, you can use it from
2210
01:50:48.119 --> 01:50:49.880
downloading it or to go on the web. So go
2211
01:50:49.920 --> 01:50:52.840
to the non sec non secuor to show discord and
2212
01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:54.079
be a part of it, or just listen in. But
2213
01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:56.560
that'll probably be some time between fifteen to twenty minutes
2214
01:50:56.560 --> 01:50:59.399
after this episode ends. But we'll continue on the carricters
2215
01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:01.520
continue on the conversation there.
2216
01:51:02.680 --> 01:51:05.520
Yeah, okay, Jimmy will start with you just to tell
2217
01:51:05.520 --> 01:51:07.680
everybody what you got coming up if you wanna plug anything.
2218
01:51:07.840 --> 01:51:13.640
And yeah, so obviously my page is mister Atheist. We
2219
01:51:13.680 --> 01:51:15.720
talk about all the questions that atheists are asked over and
2220
01:51:15.720 --> 01:51:19.199
over again, especially those ones that are the large misconceptions
2221
01:51:19.199 --> 01:51:21.359
are made about. So we recently did one called why
2222
01:51:21.359 --> 01:51:24.079
are atheists so arrogant? We did why do atheists hate God?
2223
01:51:24.720 --> 01:51:29.119
Things along that that line of thinking. We have Sunday
2224
01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:31.399
Mass every Sunday, which is usually myself and up to
2225
01:51:31.560 --> 01:51:34.920
three other YouTubers who come on and just talk about
2226
01:51:34.920 --> 01:51:39.960
week events, usually starting with the ones that related to atheism,
2227
01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:42.760
and then the show usually quickly devolves into dick jokes.
2228
01:51:42.800 --> 01:51:44.720
I highly recommend no one ever watches it ever.
2229
01:51:46.079 --> 01:51:48.199
It's awesome, awesome, and it's fun.
2230
01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:53.159
It is fun. I on this weekend some point I
2231
01:51:53.239 --> 01:51:53.880
will post.
2232
01:51:54.119 --> 01:51:55.920
I was on Steve's show the other day and we
2233
01:51:55.960 --> 01:51:57.359
had an awesome debate with.
2234
01:51:58.880 --> 01:52:01.199
Victor Or Woton and if you guys have seen him
2235
01:52:01.199 --> 01:52:04.920
in the flatter stuff, I'm not want time. Yeah, yeah,
2236
01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:06.720
it was all about flatter Earth. It was awesome I'm
2237
01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:07.920
gonna be isolating just that.
2238
01:52:07.880 --> 01:52:09.840
Part of the stream and posting it to my channel
2239
01:52:10.239 --> 01:52:11.520
uh here in the coming days.
2240
01:52:11.640 --> 01:52:13.520
And I know I have another debate coming up, but
2241
01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:14.479
I can't think of what it is.
2242
01:52:14.479 --> 01:52:19.680
But it will be about a topic that is I'm
2243
01:52:19.680 --> 01:52:21.079
not saying this wasn't a fun topic.
2244
01:52:21.399 --> 01:52:22.439
Uh it was.
2245
01:52:22.479 --> 01:52:24.159
And I enjoyed a lot of the symbols in the
2246
01:52:24.159 --> 01:52:25.960
book and going I wouldn't even notice that was in
2247
01:52:25.960 --> 01:52:28.880
the background. But it'll be something more along than normal
2248
01:52:28.920 --> 01:52:32.479
things I do, which is evolution, flat Earth, those sorts.
2249
01:52:32.279 --> 01:52:35.560
Of things out your boxton I, which I think is
2250
01:52:35.560 --> 01:52:38.600
commendable though I mean going out to a you know,
2251
01:52:38.920 --> 01:52:39.760
an area that you're.
2252
01:52:39.640 --> 01:52:45.760
Not I mean, Okay, my my goal here, and so
2253
01:52:45.960 --> 01:52:47.479
I want to make sure this is stated. My goal
2254
01:52:47.520 --> 01:52:49.600
here was I had a book that I read that
2255
01:52:49.680 --> 01:52:52.520
I had questions for. I think Jay answered the questions.
2256
01:52:52.560 --> 01:52:54.560
I don't think that means I agree with him. I
2257
01:52:54.640 --> 01:52:56.640
wasn't bothered by a lot.
2258
01:52:56.520 --> 01:52:58.600
Of his answers. There are a few things here and there.
2259
01:52:58.640 --> 01:53:01.840
But my goal here was ask the questions about the
2260
01:53:01.880 --> 01:53:03.880
red flags I saw in the book.
2261
01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:06.600
And I think I think we I think we did that.
2262
01:53:07.479 --> 01:53:11.520
Yeah, I mean we come from a I'm a I'm
2263
01:53:11.560 --> 01:53:12.560
a paradigm thinker.
2264
01:53:12.640 --> 01:53:15.880
So my view is I believe in the transcendental argument,
2265
01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:18.680
which is obviously connected to the idea that all worldviews
2266
01:53:18.680 --> 01:53:21.760
are paradigms, and so I don't believe in the possibility
2267
01:53:21.840 --> 01:53:25.840
of neutrality. That doesn't mean I believe that all knowledge
2268
01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:28.279
or or logic or facts are relative.
2269
01:53:28.319 --> 01:53:28.880
No, not at all.
2270
01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:31.800
I believe in objectivity, but I just simply believe that
2271
01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:35.800
ultimately big picture questions are solved by comparisons of paradigms.
2272
01:53:36.479 --> 01:53:40.600
But unfortunately that also influences the way that we come
2273
01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:43.159
to books, or we write things, or we do things.
2274
01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:45.880
And so this wasn't a polemical book. This was a
2275
01:53:45.920 --> 01:53:48.439
book that was written to be fun. It was written
2276
01:53:48.439 --> 01:53:51.800
to be conspiratorial, it was written to be kind of sexy,
2277
01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:54.119
and that's what I wanted for it, and I think
2278
01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:57.000
I achieved that. But I'm welcome to be criticized, and
2279
01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:00.000
I appreciate the critiques that he brought and I'm definitely
2280
01:54:00.199 --> 01:54:03.520
and you know, going to try to hone the skills
2281
01:54:04.199 --> 01:54:04.920
for the next book.
2282
01:54:04.960 --> 01:54:07.720
So I appreciate it. And in fact, I think that.
2283
01:54:09.159 --> 01:54:11.079
When I read, when I look back and I look
2284
01:54:11.119 --> 01:54:13.119
at the book because this is actually some of these essays,
2285
01:54:13.119 --> 01:54:15.119
you know, for things I wrote my twenties, some of
2286
01:54:15.159 --> 01:54:16.680
them are are years old.
2287
01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:18.239
I kind of cringe.
2288
01:54:18.600 --> 01:54:20.239
So, I mean, I'm proud of it because it was
2289
01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:22.199
my my freshman outing. But yeah, some of the some
2290
01:54:22.239 --> 01:54:25.000
of the chapters are kind of weak. So but that's
2291
01:54:25.039 --> 01:54:26.760
what happens as you get older and you look back
2292
01:54:26.800 --> 01:54:28.199
at stuff that you wrote when you were younger.
2293
01:54:28.239 --> 01:54:30.760
But hopefully the second book will be a little.
2294
01:54:30.720 --> 01:54:35.119
From the book was sexy. It was sexy. There were
2295
01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:35.840
books if.
2296
01:54:35.760 --> 01:54:41.279
I achieved that, I achieve that that's cool, must read now.
2297
01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:46.199
Yeah, so as with Boobs Illustrations, Yeah, the.
2298
01:54:49.439 --> 01:54:51.079
Second book will be out in the next couple of months.
2299
01:54:51.319 --> 01:54:54.359
I should have a new TV show hopefully in the works.
2300
01:54:54.600 --> 01:54:56.199
That's all I can say on that, based on the
2301
01:54:56.239 --> 01:55:01.600
non disclosure agreement, and I'll be hosting uh Andy Worski's
2302
01:55:01.680 --> 01:55:05.199
Orsky Lives the foreseeable future. We'll have Ryan Dawson on Friday.
2303
01:55:05.279 --> 01:55:08.600
So he's of course a big proponent of nine to eleven.
2304
01:55:08.680 --> 01:55:11.079
Was an inside job, one of the one of the
2305
01:55:11.119 --> 01:55:14.199
better debaters of that topic. But I think actually we're
2306
01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:17.039
going to be talking comic books and the influence of
2307
01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:19.600
social justice warriors in comic books. We'll have some big
2308
01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:22.359
comic book artists on for this Friday, So that's what's
2309
01:55:22.399 --> 01:55:24.800
coming up with us and my my channel is just
2310
01:55:25.039 --> 01:55:26.920
standard stuff. We're going to keep going through the Globals
2311
01:55:26.960 --> 01:55:30.319
book series. We're going to finish the Pentagon Brain book
2312
01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:31.560
by Annie Jacobson next.
2313
01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:35.600
That's great, Well, we'll in the in the description you'll
2314
01:55:35.600 --> 01:55:38.239
find the links to Jay Channel will also link to
2315
01:55:39.119 --> 01:55:44.000
Andy Orski so that you can catch that. Uh.
2316
01:55:44.319 --> 01:55:46.239
I think that's interesting with the comic.
2317
01:55:46.079 --> 01:55:51.159
Book guys, I like that. Oh yeah, of course, mister.
2318
01:55:51.760 --> 01:55:54.520
Links are down there below as well. Remember, guys, we'll
2319
01:55:54.560 --> 01:55:58.720
beat back tomorrow at eight o'clock with Nightmare Fuel on
2320
01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:02.119
Saturday at eight with Russell Placer from The Athe's Experience
2321
01:56:02.199 --> 01:56:07.520
and Matt Powell the our our favorite.
2322
01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:11.239
Uh what did I say? I keep forgetting my said Steve, our.
2323
01:56:11.359 --> 01:56:14.479
Favorite, our our favorite, twenty two year old pastor that
2324
01:56:14.520 --> 01:56:17.760
wants to kill kids. And it's by the way, but
2325
01:56:18.199 --> 01:56:21.199
you know what were once they needed Mario needs a
2326
01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:23.600
screenshot of this. Come on, everybody. Oh yeah, Mari knows
2327
01:56:23.640 --> 01:56:27.199
the shot over your eyes, the moment.
2328
01:56:27.479 --> 01:56:28.039
It over your eye.
2329
01:56:28.079 --> 01:56:30.600
Bro over there you go, Okay, both eyes.
2330
01:56:32.840 --> 01:56:35.479
Kyle doesn't quite get it, Kyle photo.
2331
01:56:35.279 --> 01:56:37.000
Shot stuff yet.
2332
01:56:37.800 --> 01:56:39.560
I'm just gonna put binoculars in your
2333
01:56:40.479 --> 01:56:43.279
We'll see you tomorrow at Fuck you, missus, We'll see
2334
01:56:43.279 --> 01:56:43.840
you tomorrow at