Student Engagement, Alignment, and Helping Students See Their Learning Journey

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Right, mindful movements eliminate with something super breaking rules we innovate.
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Jacked Up, an educational podcast hosted by Jackie and Ed.
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Jacked Up dives headfirst into the wild world of learning with unfiltered energy, sharp insights, and a profound love of all things education.
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From classroom innovations and policy debates to quirky pedagogy and unexpected lesson from the trenches, this podcast breaks down complex topics with humor, heart, and a whole lot of passion.
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If you are an educator, lifelong learner, or just someone who believes that curiosity is a superpower, get ready to get jacked up about education.
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Brought to you by Alignment Consulting LLC.
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Intentional strategies, impactful solutions.
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Alrighty, welcome back, listeners, to the Jacked a Podcast.
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I'm excited to be here with all of you.
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But before we even jump into our guest and introducing him, I want to just really say thank you to all our listeners.
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Truly, truly thank you.
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We just started this podcast January what, Ed, 13th?
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January 6th, I think.
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Was it 6th this year?
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Yeah, we just started.
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And already we're doing fantastic.
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It's amazing.
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So we've, you know, we look at the statistics and we've been in, it's hard to believe, we've been in over 200 cities in 32 countries, which is just wild.
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It blows my mind.
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Yeah, so it's global.
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So I just wanted to take the quick second to say thank you to all you listeners out there.
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If this is your first time, welcome.
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Thank you so much.
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Keep on listening, and um we're gonna get started.
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So tonight is really exciting for both of us.
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Today's guest is special to both of us in that we're welcoming a colleague who has been a part of our professional journey in a lot of different powerful ways.
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As independent consultants for Catapult Learning, the three of us have had the privilege of working alongside our guests, sharing stateside work, we've done conferences together, collaborative thinking, and the kind of conversations that really push practice forward.
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But what made this partnership truly memorable was when all three of us had the opportunity to work together overseas.
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Being able to support educators and leaders in Germany working on bases, schools on the soldiers' bases with Dodea was really a treat in providing professional development.
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It was a treat, both, I would say, professionally as well as personally.
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Learning, the relationships, and the perspective that all three of us gained from the experience, I really would say if you guys agree that it shapes how we think about teaching, leadership, and the impact of PD today.
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So today we have a guest who is wise in many different areas, but I'm excited today to specifically dive into some of the independent work that he's focused on with student engagement.
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And what I love about this topic is it's hot, but not only that, we're going to talk about alignment and how that fits in, how helping students clearly see their learning journey is powerful, why that matters for students, and even more importantly, how we can design for them to recognize their own growth along the way.
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This is about making learning visible, and we want that for students so that they can feel connected and motivated, which is connected to engagement, and invested in when they're headed in their learning journey.
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So, Ed, we know Dr.
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Ruben Cortez, but please tell our listeners about him.
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Yeah, before we turn it over, it's important that you know who he is and his experience and what he brings tonight.
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So Dr.
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Cortez is an educator with over 35 years of experience.
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You must have started very young.
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He has experience as a secondary teacher, an administrator, and a national consultant.
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Before joining Pacific Oaks as a professor in the MA Multiple Subjects Credential Program, Dr.
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Cortez has presented nationally, internationally on diversity, equity, and inclusion and anti-bias, as well as on student motivation, purposeful instruction, classroom management, and effective instructional practices.
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Dr.
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Cortez has trained secondary and elementary school administrators in managing organizational change, and he has coached teachers and instructional leaders as they implement instructional strategies to raise student achievement among struggling students.
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So, Dr.
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Cortez, it's great to see you again.
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Welcome to our podcast, and we're so excited to share this discussion with you.
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Yeah, thank you.
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I'm so happy to be here, honestly.
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And I think if if people knew me, they'd they'd know that with my gray hair and white beard, I I'd put in the time.
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I put in the time and education.
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I think I got most of that from my time and education.
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Yeah, very distinguished look.
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100%.
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We're gonna have to post that on our Facebook page.
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You're not getting away with that just because we're audio.
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Yeah, we're excited.
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Welcome so much.
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Um and and we're finally excited because we're aligned right now tonight across three different time zones, right?
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So we're making this happen.
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I'm thrilled.
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Like I said, student engagement is really a hot topic, I think always, but even more so today with the things that we're facing.
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And you're an expert, like I said, earlier in many areas, but there's a personal story um that you have with some classroom experiences, I think, that would be nice to start with.
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Just why you dove into this work and why it matters.
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Yeah, you know, I think one of the things the the three of us know, you know, we've had you know the privilege of going into really a lot of different classrooms, right?
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We're we're seeing a lot of different students, a lot of different interactions with that.
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And you know, one of the things is to me, it's it's always trying to look at things from student experience, right?
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What's happening for the student?
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Not you know, people tend to focus on what the teacher's doing.
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It's like what's happening for the student?
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Um, and so one of the things we've always done was like we go into a classroom and we try to find out do the students understand what it is.
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And I I went into this one classroom and it was a science classroom, and this the the students were in working in groups, right?
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And they were at a desk and they had this activity.
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And I I walked up to one group and I said, Hey, can you guys tell me you know what you're doing, what your objective is for today?
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And so they said, Oh yeah, we have this plastic container, and they open up the container for me, and they said it's it's the bottom is covered with pennies, which I could see.
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And they said, We started out with the the pennies were all heads up, and then we close the lid, and then we we shake it three times, and then we open it up, and then we count how many now are tails.
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And we do that until either they're all turnover tails or we do that for ten times.
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And then we have this little piece of paper here, and we mark down every round what happened.
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And I said, Great.
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I said, So why are you guys doing this?
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What were you supposed to learn?
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And they go, I don't know.
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I don't know.
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Um I said, okay.
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Um I said, what do you think the the learning is supposed to be here?
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I'm not sure.
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And so, you know, like it's like, well, maybe you're thinking like maybe that's just an anomaly, right?
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Maybe it's just that one group, just didn't hear what they were supposed to take away from this.
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Um and so I went to another group, asked them the same questions.
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Same thing.
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They explained this activity perfectly to me about what they were doing.
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I said, So, so what do you guys think you're what are you guys learning from that?
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I don't know.
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I said, you know, I said, what do you think the teacher wants you to learn from this?
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He said, I don't know.
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I'm sure he'll tell us at the end.
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Right?
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Um, well, you know, in in high school is what happens is teachers tend to go to the bell.
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And so it was like the bell rang and the teacher's like, hey guys, don't forget, put your materials, all that all this stuff about the materials.
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Kids walked out.
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Now, this this at this particular high school, this was a block skin.
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So they weren't gonna that teacher was not gonna see those kids for you know the day after.
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It wasn't even tomorrow.
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And I I asked the teacher, I said, Hey, I said, this is a great activity.
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What what were you guys what were you what was the purpose of it?
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He said, Oh, you know, we've been studying, you know, mineral degradation and want to learn about you know carbon dating and how you know some of them, you know, over time they change, you know.
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Great.
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Your kids got none of that.
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Yeah, yeah, you're able to articulate that, but didn't hear it from the learners, right?
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Right, exactly right.
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Great, great activity.
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Kids, and this is the thing, right?
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It looked like kids were engaged because if you you walk into that classroom, kids are are doing something, they're on a hands-on activity, right?
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They're they're shaking this container, they're writing things down, you know, they're the the you know, they're they're talking about what they're doing, so it's not they're off task.
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If you just walk in and look, they're engaged, but they weren't engaged.
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Or I would say this, you know, uh the the the lowest level of engagement is compliant.
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And they were that's where they were.
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They were in compliance, they were doing what they were being asked.
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As far as learning is concerned, wasn't happening.
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Yeah, and I would for a minute there.
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I thought you were gonna say that you asked the teacher that question, and the teacher turned around and said, I don't know.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, go look at the book, right?
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No, it's it's conveying that to the kids so that it is more meaningful activities.
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Yeah, uh obviously.
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Um so I mean I don't think teachers start out wanting to just assign things that don't have meaning.
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So how how do how does that how does that happen in a classroom that kids are doing things and and like you said, they're they're they're engaged to an extent, but not as much as they could be.
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Yeah, well, you know what, here's what happens.
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It's like I always I used to tell teachers, like, you know, what's what's the number one question that students ask in a classroom, right?
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And if you ask a group of teachers, they always tell you the same thing.
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Why do we have to learn this?
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Why do we need to know how many points is this worth?
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Is this gonna be on the test, right?
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These are all value questions.
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And students want to know why.
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Students want to know why are you being why are they being asked to do something?
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Um and well the problem is we don't do that in classrooms.
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We like maybe we'll tell them we they'll have an agenda.
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Here's what you're gonna be doing today.
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Um maybe they'll write on the board somewhere with the objective because maybe their administrator asked them to do.
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But that doesn't get related to right.
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We don't tell students, hey guys, here's what you're gonna be doing today, here's why you're gonna be doing and then throughout the lesson, hey, don't forget we're trying to do this.
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Think about what a difference it would have made for that for that students.
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The teacher said, Hey guys, remember we've been learning about mineral degradation, we're talking about carbon dating.
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You know what?
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Today we're gonna do a little practice about that so we can kind of learn a little bit about you know what that's like.
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You're gonna do an activity that mimics that.
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Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I was gonna that was my next question.
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I was gonna say, well, backing up again, like what how would you have changed to that if you were observing the teacher and what feedback would you give them?
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Yeah, and that's a great example of that.
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And that's what I would have told them.
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I said, you know, if you would have laid that out for them, then when I asked them what they were doing, they would have said, Oh, we've been studying about mineral degradation and we're practicing this with pennies.
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Okay, great.
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There is another, I went to this math class, I went to two math classes.
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Again, this was a high school.
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So it was the same math class, it was an algebra.
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And I walked in and I, same thing.
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I had a student, I walked to stay and said, Hey, what are you guys, what are you guys doing today?
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Um what's your what's your objective?
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And she said, Oh, well, we're working on uh 4.1.
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Uh yesterday we did 4.0, and then we're gonna after we're dealing with 4.1, we're gonna move to 4.2.
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Obviously, they're working through the textbook, right?
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And so it's like, okay, this person is this person is, you know, they have uh an inbox and they're working on getting this stuff on the inbox of their album.
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So I went to another math class, same level, same level of of class, and I said to the student, I said, What are you guys doing today?
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What are you working on?
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Oh, we're working on quadratic equations.
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They were also in 4.1, right?
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They were also doing that work.
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Well, they were on scope and sequence.
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Everyone's on the same page.
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Yeah.
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But the difference is the teacher had articulated to them why they were doing that work.
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So it's not just uh, you know, I put it in your inbox, now put it in your outbox and turn it in.
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Right.
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Well, I think I'm sorry, go ahead.
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Yeah, I was just gonna say that like when I'm listening to you, uh again, we've been in so many classrooms that it's almost when you talked about the students, like the the lowest part of engagement is compliance.
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I feel like that's part of the teacher's hoop jump, right?
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Is that like at some point the research comes out and we know the research about why it's important for students to know what they're learning.
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That initiative comes across someone's desk, a PD day happens, right, and we now this becomes part of what we do at this school.
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But I think we've talked about this before, but we never truly implement a massage to make sure that it's fully understood, looked at, done well, done right, and massaged to like what you're saying, right?
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So because it's not about just putting it on the wall.
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Right.
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That that's checking the box.
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You know, I I have the agenda on the board, what more do you want me to do, right?
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It's more than that.
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It's it's about, like you said, do you know that it's there because it's intended for students to be able to articulate it?
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You're supposed to continuously go back to it, those kinds of things.
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Um so yeah, it's really interesting.
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So it's to me that's the part where it it it gets lost.
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It's like that cliff of we know what's good practice, but yet we don't fully f complete the cycle so that the implementation is strong.
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And so we're seeing bits and pieces.
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Does that do you agree with that, Ruben?
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Disagree or yeah, definitely.
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We we know how to help out with that type of engagement, you know?
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And it's just like anyone, right?
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If someone says to you, hey, you know, we're gonna have a meeting after school, right?
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Your first thought is, why?
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Why are we having a meeting after school?
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Because you feel the same way, right?
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You you the amount of your engagement is how much value you put into it.
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Right, how much value you perceive from it, I should say.
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So it's like for students the same thing.
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You know, I always say for like students, you know, it it starts to get to the point it's like Groundhog Day.
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You know that movie Groundhog Day?
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It's like the same day, day after day after day, right?
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And it's like, you know, they they try to do the same thing, right?
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First they try to manipulate the day, then they try to get out of the day, right?
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Uh but for teachers we have to make it so that they start to recognize the day's an opportunity, right?
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An opportunity for them to learn.
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Well, how does that happen?
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Right?
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And that's one of the that's one of the easiest things for for teachers to if you were to think about like your your best teachers that you ever had, you know, you're gonna realize that that they always had purpose behind what they were doing.
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You never they and you always knew why you were doing it.
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It it never seemed like wasted work, busy work, never seemed like that.
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You know, it always felt like that that person always was directing you somewhere.
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And for a lot of students, you know, it seems like busy work.
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So, Ruben, when you go into classrooms and do those visits, your purpose is to do what?
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Like why are you there?
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So, you know, we go in there to see to observe like um how instruction is really affecting.
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Kind of as an independent consultant, kind of evaluating things?
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Yeah, and uh you know what it it's uh and the the thing is like when like sometimes I'll work with instructional coaches, right, from the school or from the and one of the things that you you uh try to help them out with is how for them to observe.
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Because again, they tend to observe teachers and what teachers are doing.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.440
And it's like okay, but look at the students, right?
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.919
That's that's a great lesson that the teacher is doing, but none of it.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:43.360
Students aren't taking any of it.
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:43.759
Right?
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:44.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:45.919
They're not understanding it.
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.080
They're just you know, so w what's being accomplished, right?
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.080
The goal is student learning.
00:15:52.399 --> 00:16:02.240
Yeah, that that shift in in uh exactly what you're saying, observation, because even in discussions with teachers, well, I taught it when when you say, so where's the evidence, your kids got it.
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.000
And they kind of look at you with perplexity and then say, but I taught it.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.480
Right.
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.360
And the follow-up then is, but did they learn it?
00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.600
And and I think that's what I hear you saying, Ruben.
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.200
It's shifting the dynamic of where the evidence truly lies, right?
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:15.600
Right.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:28.639
So part of part of this engagement, what I love about what you shared is that really and we talk about this here on Jacked Up all the time, about like what are some the this is doesn't have to be a dog and pony show.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:28.879
No.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.480
I I like the three components that you talk about in engagement.
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:36.559
In other words, three, if you think about three ingredients, right?
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:38.399
Three ingredients to a cake.
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:40.399
Um, you know, can I do it?
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:41.679
Do I have the resources?
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:42.559
Do I value it?
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:43.919
So can you speak a little bit to that?
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.039
I know you've recently were talking about the value, the why, right?
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:48.000
Exactly right.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.320
And that's the that's motivation, right?
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.039
There are like five main components of motivation.
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:57.600
I I mentioned three, which is um, you know, do I feel like I can do it?
00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.279
That's a self-efficacy, right?
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.759
Do I feel like I can do what I'm being asked to do?
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:03.440
And you can think about that for students.
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:08.960
I mean, you have some students that are are low academically, and they they might be stuck there, right?
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.599
Um do I have the skills and resources to do it, right?
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.880
Am I doing are you giving me what I need to be able to get it done?
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:20.640
Um so you need those things to kind of start to feel like, okay, I want it, I want to engage, I want to do it.
00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.400
That third one is how much do I value it?
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:26.559
That's a big one, right?
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.240
How much do I value what it is that you're asking me to do?
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:38.079
The the problem is what teachers tend to do is they try to create value through uh external motivation, right?
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.079
Okay, guys, remember, this is worth 200 points, right?
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.599
This is on the test.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:44.880
This will be on the test.
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.640
This is right, this is a quarter of your grade.
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:55.200
This is right, that's external that they're trying to create value from the outside, and that that only works so much, right?
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.759
Um, because then you say, Oh, this then they'll say, How many points is this worth?
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:00.720
This is worth five points.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.839
Oh, then I only have to put five points worth of effort into it, right?
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.119
So that's that's the level of engagement I need to be in.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:15.680
So you you have to it you know, external motivation, I'm not saying get rid of them, but um you have to start also working in internal motivation.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.160
So and where does internal motivation come from?
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.319
It comes from that creating that value.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:30.160
When I start to see value, when I see what's in it for me, when I understand where you're going, where you're taking me, then it becomes value.
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:35.920
And and then I start to I start to engage and motivate on my own.
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:36.720
Right.
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:42.160
I don't need as much as um so and that's what that's what teachers aren't doing.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:42.559
Right.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.960
And that might be different for different students, right?
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.160
And so it's a lot of that has to do with knowing your students.
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:59.680
Well, and again, if you if you do if you go from trying to create value for that um internally then you have some students that external values don't don't matter.
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:06.079
And when I was teaching, I remember I had a kid that was not turning in work, and and so I'd say, Oh, you're gonna get a zero, and he'd be like, I don't care.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.640
It'd be like he he'd have like ten zeros, it'd be like, Man, you're gonna fail this class.
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:11.680
He'd go like I don't care.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:12.240
Right.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:12.799
Right.
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:18.240
Um But but I you know students do care about that.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:26.240
Um and but the problem is we don't we don't show them that, you know, like hey, here's what you're gonna be learning, here's what we're gonna be working on.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.519
Uh we don't do that.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.960
We we kind of think engagement is you know something, oh it has to be fun, it has to be entertaining.
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:33.599
No, it doesn't.
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:34.880
Yeah, exactly.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:44.480
Um Yeah, uh and we've all seen students who have been engaged in something academic work that's challenging, and they go, wow, wasn't that fun?
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:44.880
Right?
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.880
Yeah, because because you actually got them thinking about something, actually doing something.
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:51.440
You know.
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.599
So that so that's really what we need to do.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:54.640
Yeah, I love that.
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.680
Because again, the emphasis I think it's not a heavy lift.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:05.920
And one of my wise mentors said to me early on in my teaching career about the conversations we're having right now.
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:18.000
And I remember out of that I thought, you know what, I'm gonna approach and and communicate about how we learn what learning is, but more importantly, I'm gonna start off with at the beginning of the year, it was a history course.
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.279
And again, you could say that who cares about dead people?
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.559
Most of us are concerned about what's going on right now.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:32.079
And I remember I started to shift my pitch at the beginning, my unit zero was welcome to Miss Louragano's class.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.200
And you are gonna become a student of thinking.
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.319
And so my emphasis switched from the content to critical thinking.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:49.920
So when I got that pushback of why do I need to know this, and me trying to come up with all these, like as you say, Room, these external can like you gotta have this.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:54.240
It's important to know history so you don't report repeat history, you've got to graduate.
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.240
And they're shaking their heads and going, No.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:06.799
But when I flipped it and said, You're gonna leave me as a thinker, and whatever you decide to do, we're using history as a vehicle to develop your thinking.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:12.000
And even just that move, Ruben, I feel that I don't have any data.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:16.480
But I felt like the buy-in and the motivation was because who can argue with that?
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:20.079
Like this teacher wants me to be a problem solver and a communicator.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.960
But what you did was you created you created value for them.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.599
You created value in what they now, okay.
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:26.400
I want that.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.720
I want what you're giving me, right?
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:36.640
Um, and that and that is a I'm grabbed glad that you brought that up because teachers tend to think, oh, we have to tie it into real world, right?
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:45.279
Like, oh, you know, you're gonna be asked this when you're you're gonna be doing, you know, you're gonna paint a room someday and you need to know how many hiring a painter.
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.319
Exactly right.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:48.400
And kids will kids will argue that, right?
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:49.359
No, I don't.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:23:31.680
I remember one teacher saying to kids, you know, you need to you need to know how to do this, you know, because you'll you know, when you get a job, you're gonna have to learn how to write properly, you're gonna have to and this one kid said, No not I'm gonna get a secretary I won't have to do anything right so so for him that's I'm not buying what it is that you're selling basically is what he's saying um but like when you put it that way it's like hey this is not for me this is for you you're gonna be a better critical thinker right even if it even if it's like hey guys we're learning this today because next week we're gonna be doing this and when you can do this next week's gonna be a lot easier you're saying okay all right then today makes sense to me because you know I don't want to struggle next week so I'm gonna I'm gonna buy in today um but yeah I I like it when you can tie students the the the skills that they're picking up right um how they're gonna be better because of it because that that really should be the purpose of it right it really should be shouldn't be learning content it should be how we interact with contact the ability to do that becoming better critical thinkers being able to analyze things right do all that kind of stuff is really what we should be doing 100% hundred percent so I like you mentioned it a little bit earlier we said alignment so when you think about these three areas to to to help students with the value and so on but you mentioned busy work earlier and I and even just the activity like activities go to teacher P teacher get another activity let's keep doing stuff and you peel it back and at the heart there's nothing maybe talk to me a little bit about the idea of connecting like engagement to instructional alignment.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.359
How how what do you mean by that?
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:50.480
So so here so again like I as I mentioned right number one question why do we have to and um I always tell teachers right you should have that that child sitting next to you when you're lesson planning to figure out don't go around grabbing kids and take them home.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:59.839
But you so when you say oh I'm gonna I'm gonna do this worksheet why am I doing this right that that little kid should tug at you and say why are you doing this?
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:01.759
Because you have to think about the same thing.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:07.599
Why am I asking kids to do how is this going to help them right to reach that objective?
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:23.039
How is it going to help them to be better at doing whatever I need them to um because you're right because a lot of times what happens is student teachers will be like oh this looks like a fun activity I'll have them do or um oh you know we I always have them do this at this time of year.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.039
It's like okay so what?
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:25.839
Right?
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:36.079
So if you think about like what are you trying to get students to really under what do you want them to really and then your instructional practices should align together.
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:46.880
So if you so let's say that teacher let's go back to and so if I said to him you know he t let's say before I even observed it and I he told me he was going to do this, right?
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:52.480
We're gonna talk about you know degradation of mineral and um and I saw him afterwards I say how did it go?
00:24:52.640 --> 00:25:02.079
Right did your students learn that and he might say yeah of course and that's and my next question would be well how do you know they get right what told you what what did you do to get them there?
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:13.279
And so that that's where the alignment comes in right what how are our practices leading to that goal because that's what where's that learning happening and how are we getting there?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:26.079
And so alignment's a big because like you said you you could tell kids hey I'm gonna teach you how to be a good thinkers you're gonna be creative thinkers you're gonna be critical thinkers and then you then all you do is ask them to do memorization.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:26.720
Right.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.960
Right read read and answer the three questions.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.480
Exactly right and don't do the extra credit ones that are critical thinkers.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:53.599
But then here's the problem with that right what teachers don't realize here's the problem with that your students are not going to trust you because you said we're gonna do this thing and now we're doing something right and so the big thing for teachers is you want your students to know that when you say something you right and so now what happens is you said we're gonna do this but we don't do it.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:02.960
You said today we're gonna we're gonna write uh in you know use text to infer information but we never use text.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.880
So next time when you say I'm gonna do something are we really?
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:13.279
And then next time when you say this is for you is it really because you said things before that you don't follow through on.
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:34.880
So the alignment is telling students look I'm taking you somewhere right so it's it's like this right you know if I say to you hey we're going to Disneyland right then you expect us to go to Disneyland right and then every every turn I take every freeway I take is all leading me to that to get to that point.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:42.160
And in mind right and if I'm consistent with this alignment right then students buy in.
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:46.400
So then when they're not gonna ask me like why are you why are you going here?
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:47.920
Why is this taking so long?
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.079
Because they know it's like you have a plan.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:58.160
And so the alignment helps students to understand I can trust you and I can believe in you because you have a plan.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.039
What you told me you're gonna do we're doing it.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:04.000
You told me what we're gonna learn we're learning it.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:04.799
Right?
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.359
You build that with your students and now your students are willing to take it I love that.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:26.799
I love that so what are some ways that you would say to a teacher there are some just practical ways to check and balance to make sure I think one that you alluded to what I heard you say is the evidence do you have actual evidence that ties back to the target?
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:33.680
Because I think if I had a dollar for every time I heard a teacher say we talked about it.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.799
Which what does that really mean?
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:38.720
I talked about it.
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:43.599
Because we we didn't all thirty of us did not talk about something to the point of understanding.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:58.160
So right I mean is that is that on target and Ruben are there other suggestions then that you give to teachers when you sit down and debrief about some of those things just making sure alignment happens or in that planning process any suggestions you have?
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:24.960
Yeah I in the planning process like I said before you you need to you need to always be thinking about any activity you any practice that you're gonna have them do you need to ask yourself why am I doing how is this helping students to me just that one thing it's gonna help you better a lot when I've sat down with teachers and we start going over planning and they'll say to me they'll say okay first I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna have them do this and I'll say why are you having them do that?
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:30.240
And the interest the first thing they'll go with like no no well I can change it and I go no no I'm not telling you to change it.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:40.799
What I'm telling you is you need to understand why you're doing something because if you don't understand why you're doing it your students will not understand what they're doing even though you'll be presenting it to them.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:46.240
So you first of all you need to understand why am I doing why am I choosing this worksheet?
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:49.200
How is this worksheet going to help students to do that?
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:57.599
The second thing which is you know I know we've you know you've done this I know Ed's done this you know talking to teachers is go through your own lesson plan.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.599
You know I think teachers don't do that enough.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:07.279
Like you're so if you're having students answer these questions what kind of responses do I think I'm gonna get right how are they going to answer this?
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:14.720
Because sometimes you catch yourself and go, oh that's not what I thought right that's not what I was thinking would come out of there.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:16.960
So sometimes just have going through that.
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:28.400
Those are good things to do you know when you're playing and then when you're in the classroom and you're in instruction like I've said before you should be reminding students about their objective.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:40.240
I if anytime I walk into your classroom whether it's beginning middle towards the end I should know what your objective is without having to because I've heard you say it now several times.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.599
Hey guys don't forget we're trying to do this.
00:29:43.759 --> 00:30:10.400
If that science teacher would have said all right guys good you're doing a good job don't forget we're looking at remember we're looking at micro degradation remember we're doing right keeping it in their mind so that they they're not walking away I mean you you this is your opp that one lesson this is your opportunity right and you need to you need to hammer this in for them I always say it's kind of funny like you know when kids come home and and and parents say what did you learn today?
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.160
They always say nothing.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:12.960
Right?
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:25.599
That's always the response nothing well of course because we have to remind them what it is that you're learning and they shouldn't walk out of their class and the you should not end the lesson the way that that teacher ended it.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:44.240
It should be where the teacher should say gather all in one okay guys remember this is what we were trying to learn today what do you think about it what did you feel what did you take how did this remind you of what we did to kind of as they're walking away they're walking away with what the purpose was you know that should always happen.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:57.759
And those kind of things those are like you said it's not it's not all of a sudden I have to totally change right you can add some tweaks to what you're doing and increase engagement right right away.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:58.799
You can do that.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:13.519
And think about think about even when you're interacting with students right so you get students started on some type of work and you go up to little Johnny and you say hey Johnny do you know what our objective is today we're trying to get done no all right that's fine.
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.960
Remember on the board you can see it over the board you want to read it to me?
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.200
Yeah we're going to do this this and this okay great do you know how you're gonna do that?
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:22.559
Not really sure.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:24.720
Well look on the board it says how we do that.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:31.920
Uh yeah okay you think you can do that right this also gives you an opportunity right to kind of see where that suit needs support.
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.119
Do you think you can do that?
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.559
Yeah okay get started I'll come around again see how things are going.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:40.720
Or you go up to that student you go hey Sally you know do you know what your objective is today?
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.000
Yeah we're supposed to do this great do you need any help on it?
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:44.880
No I'm okay.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:46.319
Alright then get started on it.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:49.359
Or you know yeah I'm not really sure how to do this part.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:55.839
All right let me help right but what you're doing is you're focusing their learning on here's what we're trying to get done today.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.200
Not going up to Johnny and say Johnny get started on that right?
00:31:59.440 --> 00:31:59.599
Yeah.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:04.799
Johnny why don't why don't you get started on that come on come on get started on that and then they're responsibly well I don't have a pencil.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.799
Alright we'll get a pencil but they have no idea whether they even know what they're doing.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.680
They don't even know how they're doing it or if they need any help.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:38.319
Yeah and words what I hear you saying too Ruben I think words matter right like even the language that we choose and how we again approaching it from we're critical thinkers using history as a vehicle today we're learning instead of we're doing a worksheet right like we're going to understand blank and do this cognitively so yeah that's I think language can be a shift that if we're just conscious of how we say things again, you know you need to know this because it's on the test right away.
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:52.000
Maybe being reflective of some of the things that we say that's why I'm a big advocate for video swivel in the classroom being able to kind of self-reflect because we do these things I think Ed you said at the beginning nobody does this out of malice.
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.720
Like we're not we're not getting into the profession to do this.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:03.440
But we we slip into habits we do what we know and and so the self-awareness of of having that being able to step back and and think about it.
00:33:03.599 --> 00:34:34.159
Yeah I I agree with you I agree with you a thousand percent I I have not I've not met a teacher who doesn't you know and want to help you and you know but again what happens like you said we get we get into habits we get comfortable we don't think we don't think about how much impact we if we just you know some some minor changes on on what we're doing with um and how we're approaching it and and helping them out right um even you know one of the things is kind of on a similar line you know I always say if teachers could just make one switch too which is asking students how do you know right so a student says you know oh you know what's what's one plus one too how do you know right how do you know that because you're you're you're helping them to think through they're not guessing right um but you're helping them to start thinking about my my answers come from something else right um and then the other thing is you expose for everyone else what it means to um and I saw this video one a third grade class and they were doing like a reading right and the teacher was having kids you know take turns read and so one kid one little girl was reading and she came across a word and she stopped and you know the teacher looked to go oh yes oh class that's a very big word does anybody know that word and one kid raised his hand and he goes yeah Albuquerque right and you know and the all the kids look at him wow you know because if you've seen how the word Albuquerque is spelled if you don't know it you could kind of what is that word?
00:34:34.320 --> 00:35:20.239
Right so the ch but the teacher did something really good and the teacher said how did you know that was Albuquerque and he said we have family in Albuquerque we go to Albuquerque every summer right so what that teacher did for the other students is saying you know intelligence isn't something right it's something that we can all so he knew Albuquerque because of it not because he's naturally smart and gifted because the problem is when when students don't see that then they think like oh that kid's just smart I'm not right but when they see like oh that kid you know that kid got that because he read it oh I could have done this I could do the same and that's motivating right one of the things is can I do it is the first thing you said Ruben can I do it I'm building that that I can do it.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.000
That belief that it's not fixed.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.199
Exactly right it's it's you can fix it I can do it.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:36.000
And and now you're giving me the skills to do it right which is you're showing me I can go back to the text right um I so I can talk to someone about it.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:36:16.239
I can get that information somewhere else I don't have to just try to hold it into my brain and pull it up if it's not I was going to ask um we had a guest on that talked about we were talking about discipline and it was interesting she said bring in your stakeholders and your stakeholders can be your students like why don't we ask the students what do you feel Ruben about pulling in students and how how can learners be more active in tricking slim self-assessing progress monitoring their own place to the target to the standards they're trying to attain have you seen any of that in classrooms?
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:29.920
Have you in other words that I take that ownership of knowing the target so I'm talking about like physically like recording it so it's not just on the board but getting to the point where learners actually take some action.
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:30.400
Yeah.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:32.400
Have you seen anything like that?
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:37.199
I'm just thinking of more strategies for teachers to provide students access to that.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.559
Yeah the um there's a couple of things.
00:36:40.719 --> 00:37:04.239
I remember when I was teaching I worked with a a teacher I I learned actually a lot from her um and she was a math teacher and what she would do at the end of the year she would she would hold on to throughout the year and then at the end of the year um give the students back their work for them to take a look at work right because one of the things we don't do is we don't have students see like I couldn't do that and now I can right so to see their own growth.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:05.360
They have to see their own growth.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:38:50.880
So they have to so you and I've seen teachers use have kids keep their own dollars right and they have their own folder and they would take out their folder add to their data chart like here's my goal and here's where I'm at here's what I'm doing right so that they can start to see right that they are growing because I think kids don't realize that right like you couldn't do this in the beginning of the year now you can do it you know towards the middle because again like you said that that's a self-et case that growth mindset right so um I've seen that as being a way of helping um and they should be really and you could have um students answer that question for you you could have as so our goal was today was to do this right how do you feel you didn't yeah where are you in relationship to that now right yeah and yeah you've probably you know you've heard of the strategy um KW the muddy water one of them right where you put down what's what's still the muddiest right kids can you can use that with your objective right what's what you know what is what's still what's what's clear for you now what's muddy right what is still you can't see whatever it is you can do that and then they can they can write that down so you can kind of get a an assessment on what a little informal quick right exactly right yeah yeah I love that idea of of kind of showing kids where they where they were at the beginning and you know throughout the whole process and I'm just thinking to myself like it'd be so cool like like in a music class for example you you know you record kids at the beginning where they were especially as they're learning an instrument and then you check back in and a c because you you spend so much time trying to build muscle memory and different things you know whether it's music or or whatever it happens to be and you don't notice the growth because it is slow.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:57.360
All of a sudden you can you know you can do something that kind of feels natural and you forget that it was not at all natural.
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:57.920
Yeah.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:25.360
That's a good it would be great if we could do in a classroom like you're talking about a music instrument you you start out by saying you play them a song a music whatever it is and say you know what you can't do this right now but by the end of the year no way right that's the thing is right it's more motivator they get the guitar and they like I I can't do this you go you know all right fine then they start to learn then yeah midway through you go all right how are you doing now?
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:25.760
Right?
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.239
Let's try that song again and see what we're doing.
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:30.559
And then oh you know I'm a little bit closer to that.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:40:05.199
Yeah we're talking music but the same thing applies to other students can happen if we don't do that enough for students and say you know even if it's something like you know taking a look you're gonna do a history lesson you're taking a look at you know and you maybe you you point out some things about Roman you know history and you go you know what this isn't happening you don't know anything about this right now but you know what by the end of this you will you'll understand these things by the end right you'll understand how you know I don't know how a senator is different than our senators.
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.199
You'll understand right you're telling them here we're going somewhere.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:24.400
In fact you know curiosity you know they say that you know if the brain asks a question the brain will seek an answer right so when you pose these questions to students you're telling their brain you need to seek an answer.
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:29.519
And that's just the way the brain works right the brain like doesn't like those open-ended things where you just leave it.
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:50.159
So you know you're what that's what you're doing you're trying to build that for them you know and helping them like see wow there's here's where we're and I remember when we went through that whole the power of a target and I remember our emphasis in our district was the essential question tied to that Reuben because that again was kind of that picture at the front like what's worth dying for?
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.199
Right?
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.400
What's worth dying for?
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.840
Like everyone can relate to it everyone can have an opinion about it.
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:08.639
We're not yet in the content and talking about the Roman Empire and the war that we're going to look at but asking that and then again journaling do whatever document it and then two lessons later we've gotten into some stuff.
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.159
Now let me ask you this.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.039
Would you still do that?
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:14.639
How do you see that playing out here?
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:20.159
You know and so like you alluded to keep going back to the target and checking it's not about one and done.
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:35.519
It's about now that we've learned this much, this experience where do you feel you are now and and I think that's where the motivation lies because I'm getting closer and closer to the end in mind that we stated is what our goal is you know it's that marathon run.
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:53.280
We're getting closer and closer to the end which everything can relate to as being going and going back to those things we talked about is like again do I feel like I can do it and do I have the skills and resources to do it and do I exactly what you just said is hitting all three of those that's that's the litmus test.
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:55.679
You're gonna be more motivated.
00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:17.440
Yeah yeah and again we relate to that as adults so we talked a lot about teachers I think just kind of wrapping and bringing around I know you do a lot of work with leaders like what would you say Ruben like what's something a leader could do again we like to be practical and valuable like just something tomorrow like what could a leader do to move their staff closer to the kinds of things we're talking about today.
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:19.760
Do you have any ideas in regards to that?
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:51.599
Yeah um you know I've been in a lot of schools I'm sure you guys like okay the objective you know they ask administrators ask teachers to write the objective um but we know that that's not that you know a lot of times kids so asking teachers to do more I I would say you know in your observation is don't worry about what the teacher's doing look at what and how they're and once you do that you start to see where the gaps are right or where missed opportunities.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:43:00.639
And the other thing what we find from this is the the two things I find with with leaders um they don't always do a good job with that same motivator.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:08.320
Teachers need to why they're asked to do something they also sometimes what stops their buy-in is they don't feel that they can do it.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:15.519
You've given them a new program and you know for whatever reason they're a little worried about implementing it so they don't feel like they can do it.
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.679
And that and that exhibits in a pushback.
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:20.400
Or what they'll tell you is like well we don't have the time to do this.
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:24.800
We don't have what they're telling you is they're giving you that number two we don't have the skills and resources to do it.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:26.159
My motivation is low.
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:30.000
And then the third one again is that why are we doing this?
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:38.960
We worked with Catapult we worked with um a district in Vegas and they were implementing professional learning communities, right?
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:48.000
That's and so we went in and I was working with several and I met with the teacher group and the first thing they said to me is that they go like I don't we don't know why we're doing this.
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:58.559
This is kind of silly right and so my first meetings with them was explaining why PLCs are effective and why they help out with student learning.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:00.559
And they said You know what?
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:01.519
No one ever told us this.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.920
Yeah, it's so ironic, right, that the administrators lose.
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.719
The expectation is is on the the teachers, but then they're not.
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:07.440
Exactly right.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:09.199
That's what yeah, that's what we're saying.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:21.199
And and so for you can look at when we talk about for administrators, when you look at implementation or change, you can look at it from three different right, knowledge, motivation.
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:27.679
So you look at what you're trying to implement or what you want the teacher or your teachers to do, knowledge.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.039
Do they need more knowledge?
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:30.800
Do they not know how to do this?
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:32.800
That means that's professional development, right?
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:39.199
Do they need professional development or some type of training for um Do they need do they do I have to think about their motivation?
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:40.719
And we just talked about that, right?
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:43.679
Self-efficacy, skills and resources, value.
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:45.519
Should we answer the question why?
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.079
I need to I need to think about that to get the buy-in, right?
00:44:50.239 --> 00:45:03.440
And then the third thing that a lot of a lot of leaders don't think about is the organization, which means what is the organization doing that will hinder our own progress, right?
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:05.119
And I'll give you an example of that.
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:09.199
I was working at a district with their social studies departments.
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.000
Um and so they wanted to implement more critical thinking in their social studies.
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:17.920
So we went in there, we did profession development, we did the knowledge, right?
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:33.280
We went in there, I went in there to do the coaching, right, to help out with the motivation to talk about that, to create value for them on changing the way they were doing instruction so that they would would focus more on more higher level thinking and less of the low level thinking.
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:34.079
You know.
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:39.760
And and then we were in a meeting and and one of these teachers, you know, said to me, said, You know what?
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:47.360
We love what you're doing, and we agree with everything you're saying, right, about having kids engage in higher level thinking.
00:45:47.760 --> 00:46:00.480
They said, But uh, our district has uh our students do an annual test assessment that goes throughout the whole district that our jobs depend on, and that is straight memorization.
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:06.400
He said, So we have to be in remote memorization in order for them to pass these tests.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.920
So the district was cutting themselves out, right?
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:22.320
They they put all this effort into bringing people in to help change the teachers' motivation and instructional practices, but by this one assessment, they were keeping teachers right.
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:24.639
So we have to look at that last piece.
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.440
What are we doing to help those teachers?
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.760
What are we doing that hinders those teachers?
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.639
So that no, that's we call it a KMO, right?
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:33.440
That's not my idea.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.559
You know, higher level thinking, but so that KMO, right?
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:39.679
Knowledge motive, you can look at anything from that standpoint.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.119
You can look at an individual teacher from that, you can look at your whole school from that.
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.000
Um and that will help that will help set a core.
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.199
Yeah, and I love that because that ties back to the external motivation we talked about with kids.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.480
Like it's on the test.
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:56.159
Well, here I'm telling you do your job because they gotta pass the test.
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:56.800
You know what I mean?
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:57.599
Ed, go ahead.
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:00.000
You were gonna say, No, I was just thinking the same thing.
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:08.000
Like it it's so obvious, you know, from the outside that that's one of the big issues for that district, but how did they not see that themselves, right?
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.559
Yeah.
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:09.280
Yeah.
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:10.079
But yeah.
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:10.559
Yeah.
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:14.000
I mean, the same thing happened with teachers.
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:18.079
You know, we take a look at our students and somehow we think that there's a problem there.
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:22.719
We don't look at ourselves and say, well, what what are we what can we do to change that?
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.719
And I always say, you know, teachers can't get caught up in and districts get caught up.
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:29.920
The oh well meaning like, oh, these kids, you know, they don't read as much at home.
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:30.480
Oh well.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.760
These kids, you know, they're coming from a they have they hear a second language.
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.519
Oh well, they start pointing the finger out the scroll host or yeah, right.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.639
Well, it's yeah, it's a it's like saying, I don't have to do anything about that.
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.440
Instead of saying, All right, this is the situation, what can I do about it?
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:47.440
Where can I have that impact?
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:51.760
What what is my you know um involvement here?
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.280
What what do I do?
00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:55.599
And so district leaders do the same thing, right?
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:57.440
They're like, oh, these teachers, right?
00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.039
We just need to change without thinking.
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:00.320
Well, what's our part in it?
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:00.480
Right?
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:06.000
And I think that's really the value that an outside person lends to an organization like that.
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:11.440
Because you know, sometimes you're so in it that you don't you d you you fail to see the obvious, you know.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:18.320
And having somebody outside observe and and give some non-evaluative um feedback is very helpful.
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.039
Yeah, seeing the forest through the trees, right?
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:25.360
We sometimes get stuck in our lane, and so that's the power of that outside perspective.
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:26.960
I love it.
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:28.639
Well, thank you so much.
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.639
We know that you're busy and we were excited to be able to get you here on time.
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:39.599
I'm so excited we are finally able to do it, but what a rich conversation.
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:54.800
Um and we we have notes, and so with your permission, we'll we'll put some information in there and kind of the the transcript will be there with the the real simplistic piece of looking at those three areas and and getting students to take ownership and see value.
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.840
You're so involved still in in so many different areas of education.
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:02.559
It's great to have your knowledge and to share it with our.
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.360
And keep in touch moving because we can always have you back.
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.719
Because like we said, we just hit the one area.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:13.039
You can tell.
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:14.000
Get me talking about it.
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.360
Remember, this was what we did in Germany, right?
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:19.039
As we're eating Schnitzel, right?
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.719
So all hours of the night, having a glass of wine and talking about good stuff.
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:23.519
Oh yeah.
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:31.519
I think you know what it comes down to, and I know you guys, it's uh you want you want these teachers to and you know that they can be.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:33.119
And I know that they want to be.
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:33.599
Yes.
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:40.159
Sometimes they just need that that better under they just need some some guidance, advice, whatever it is.
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:40.480
Right.
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:48.719
But you know, I I've been in schools and I, you know, I was a principal at one, you know, and seen students, and you know, you know from my own.
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:51.280
This is what learning it is.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.440
I think that's why we all get into it, right?
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:54.559
Yeah, I agree.
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.639
So well, thank you again, Dr.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:57.760
Ruben Cortez.
00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:58.559
It was a pleasure.
00:49:58.800 --> 00:49:59.440
We love to have you.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.039
It's great to see you again.
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:01.519
Yeah.
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:03.840
Take care, and we'll talk to you soon.
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:07.599
That brings us to the end of today's episode of Jacked Up.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:15.360
I hope the ideas we explored gave you something meaningful to think about, something you can apply, and something that expands the way you see the world.
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:23.920
If today's conversation helped you learn, grow, or understand a topic a little more deeply, make sure you follow and like.
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:31.360
Share this episode with someone who's curious, someone who loves learning, or someone who could benefit from the insights we covered.
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:38.239
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00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:44.159
Until next time, stay curious, stay engaged, and keep leveling up your mind.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.360
And most importantly, stay jacked up.
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:48.559
Signing off.