286. How Experimenting With Lead Generation Led to $250K in Consulting Work with Crystal Hincks

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Welcome to the Grow Your Independent Consulting Business Podcast.
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I'm Melissa Lieberman, a fellow IC and business coach.
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On this podcast, I teach you to become a consistently booked independent consultant without becoming a pushy salesperson or working 24-7.
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If I can do it, you can too.
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Listen on to find out how.
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If you've been trying different ways to generate leads and wondering why nothing has clicked yet, this episode is for you.
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My guest today is Crystal Hinks, an independent consultant who works with nonprofits on evaluation and strategy and research.
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In simple terms, Crystal helps organizations understand whether their programs are working, the impact they're creating, and how to demonstrate that impact to funders and other stakeholders.
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So when you hear her talk about evaluations, that's what it is if you're not familiar with that function.
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What I love about Crystal's story is that she didn't stumble upon one lead generation strategy that was perfect for her.
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She went through a process.
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She tried a lot of different things.
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She created some visibility.
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She created some conversations.
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Some of those got her in front of decision makers, and some worked to a point, but weren't consistently turning into the kinds of consulting opportunities that she wanted.
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So she kept going.
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She kept looking at what was working and what wasn't working and what needed to change with her strategy, with the way she was thinking.
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And along the way, she got much clearer about who she wanted to work with, what she wanted to be known for, what she was actually offering, and how to show up in the sales process as an expert and a peer instead of simply being the helpful consultant who could do a lot of different things.
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Eventually, those pieces started coming together.
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And Crystal landed on a lead generation approach that is creating some pretty remarkable traction in her business.
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And we'll tell you about that here toward the end of the episode.
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But I want to be really clear about something before you listen.
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This episode isn't about Crystal's nonprofit niche, although you might be in the nonprofit sector.
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But if you aren't, it's not about that.
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It isn't about the specific consulting services she offers.
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And it really isn't about copying the lead generation tactics she ultimately landed on that she'll tell you about toward the end.
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Because the process that Crystal went through applies to every independent consultant, regardless of your niche, what your ideal client type is or how much you're charging or anything like that.
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It's about what you do when you're taking action, but you're not getting the results that you're expected.
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It's about how you figure out whether to keep going, adjust something, or try something completely new.
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It's about how you get clear enough about your ideal clients and your offer so that lead generation becomes easier to execute and how you stay with the process long enough to learn what actually works for you instead of assuming the strategy is broken because it didn't immediately produce a client.
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Crystal walks us through that entire journey in this conversation, including the things that didn't work, the things that almost worked, and the mindset shifts she had to make so that what changed for her when all those pieces finally came together and started working together in unison.
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That's what we're talking about here today.
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So if you're experimenting with lead generation right now, or you're putting in the effort and still wondering why it isn't translating into enough consulting opportunities, you're gonna going to want to hear this whole episode.
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Let's dive in with my conversation with Crystal Hinks.
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Crystal, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today.
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And for all those independent consultants out there listening to hear your story as an independent consultant, and there's so much they're gonna take away from it.
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Give us a little bit of your background on what you do as an independent consultant, who you work with, how you got to be an independent consultant.
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Give us a little bit of the background.
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Sure.
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So my name is Crystal Hanks, and I um am the principal consultant at Uncommon Evaluation.
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And so I provide evaluation support to nonprofits in the social and justice sectors.
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So that can span a number of different areas, justice-related, obviously, people that are entrenched in the justice system, involvement with police, all the way through to things like child welfare and just sort of any of those like complex social issues that society faces.
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I provide organizations with evaluation services, whether it's just helping them set up evaluation, looking at different um evaluation strategies that they might want to explore to look at how they can demonstrate their impact, as well as supporting them with just a number of other sort of program implementation strategies and the like.
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Amazing.
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And how did you get into independent consulting?
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So I actually worked in frontline mental health corrections, I worked as a coroner, so I had a lot of frontline experience.
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And I sort of fell into research.
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Uh, when I was in university, I was asked to help with a research project through one of my professors.
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And as soon as I started that one project, I just fell in love with research.
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And so I was sort of always doing that on the side.
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I would get side projects through school, you know, things would just come my way.
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And then more and more I just realized that's what I really loved doing.
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I mean, frontline is quite intensive work.
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Um, it can be very draining.
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You know, you see some terrible things, you also see some wins for people.
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But I found that just with my interest and, you know, my abilities, I could have a bigger impact by doing something sort of at like a higher level, more around policy.
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And so with the research, evaluation goes hand in hand with that.
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And so then I started um getting some research projects under my belt, and I just slowly built it up over time.
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So it just sort of happened quite organically.
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And you just made the leap recently to full-time consulting, right?
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Was it maybe a year ago or a little less than a year ago?
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Yeah, about a year ago.
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And there's been other times in my life, you know, between employment positions that I had where I was, you know, working on my own a little bit on the projects I had, but I had never really put all of my attention onto this business to help it grow so that I could just do it full time.
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And so, yes, I was always sort of working in these different sectors and I and I loved those jobs, and I'm really grateful for them because they're just such great learning opportunities.
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They are great for making connections.
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But then, yeah, sort of I just decided like this is ultimately what I want to do.
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I love the freedom of consulting.
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I really care about having like my lifestyle the way I wanted, as far as you know, getting up, walking my dogs in the morning, and and then jumping into work and having a variety of different projects.
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So consulting is definitely the life that fits me best.
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Amazing.
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So one of the things we've been working on together is lead generation.
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So tell us a little bit about how you landed the you know, the transition from full-time to consulting and how you started trying working on generating leads for the business.
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So, like so many of the other consultants that I'm sure listen to you or have worked with you, I was one of those people that sort of took the work with me when I left full-time employment positions, where I would just say, you know, like I'm moving on for this reason, but I'm happy to continue working on a consulting basis.
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And I was fortunate enough to sort of have three positions back-to-back do that.
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So I was carrying that work forward.
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And then I just decided that I would also have to get out there and work on the lead gen strategy, which sort of led me to work with you, because in the nonprofit sector and particularly around research, everything is tied to grant funding.
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And so while nonprofits may have a budget for that, it's really dependent on the sector, the organization, uh what's happening at the time, you know, politically, how much funding is sort of moving in and out of organizations.
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And so I was always sort of my lead gen strategy was to support organizations with applying for grants for work that they would do, knowing that a portion of that funding would then be allocated for evaluation.
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So I was sort of at the whim of whether or not an organization received funding.
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And so it was it was tough because, you know, when it did work out and there was funding available, then I had that work for, you know, one to three years, depending on the grant term, but it was not sustainable.
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So as I was working with you, I was really just sort of trying to take a more like business-minded approach, opposed to just that sort of nonprofit sector where you're just always being helpful for free.
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And so yeah, I just really started to focus on how do I reach out to people, how do I make an offer, how do I decide what my off my foot in the door offer is or what my range of services is, because that was quite tough as well.
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In my conversations with people, did I tell them I was an evaluator?
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Do I tell them I'm a researcher?
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Do I tell them I do program implementation?
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Because I do all of those things.
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But it always felt like it was hard to articulate what I was doing.
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And so when it came to lead generation, it just wasn't super clear for me on what I should be going after and what would make the most sense for my business.
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So you had tried a lot of different ways, I think, to create leads over the time that we've worked together, a lot of experimentation.
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Let's talk a little bit about what made it hard to stay consistent.
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And if you walk us through a few of the different ways you tried to generate leads, some of the struggles I think that you've you had was staying consistent and eventually committing to one direction.
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Right.
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So, as I just said, sort of having all these areas of interest and going in all these different directions was definitely a challenge.
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Consistency just around how I reached out to organizations.
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I I had that sort of mindset, and that's where coaching helped me that I didn't want to be sales-y.
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And I had always had the benefit of, you know, work sort of being inbound for me, which worked because I always had a full-time job, and so I wasn't relying on this work.
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But becoming a fully independent consultant meant I had to actually build a pipeline and keep the work coming in.
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And so working towards consistency was definitely tough because my my brain was sort of all over the place.
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And I had worked in in these sectors for so long that I think I had a mix of what I knew to be true about how they operate, but also with that some some assumptions about how they might respond to what I was doing.
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And so it would feel like, oh, I shouldn't do that approach because they won't like that.
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And so that was sort of a a hurdle I had to get over to just say, you know, is that true?
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Have I at least tried it?
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Is there a way I can adapt that approach?
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And so, really, like looking at the best way to just engage with these organizations and get to know them a little bit because they are so relationship-based that, you know, if they if they like you, they want to find a way to work with you, they want your support.
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Um, they're very team focused.
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And so it was just a matter of how do I reach out to them?
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How do I start to build those relationships?
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How do I do that consistently?
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Because then I would get sort of buried in client work sometimes.
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So then my efforts to build up that pipeline and reach out to people would stop or slow down until I felt like I had the capacity.
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So that was sort of on the back burner.
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And so I think just, you know, again, through coaching and just those like strategy sessions, being accountable to you and other people in the group where I had to, you know, show up the next week and be asked if I did what I said I was going to do.
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Face the group was important to me because it's it's easy when you work for yourself and you're sort of only accountable to yourself to give yourself a break when you want to.
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So yeah, I think just applying those strategies and and trying a number of things that I wouldn't normally try to do.
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For example, like a speaking tour, you know, and like engaging some of the some of the leadership at the nonprofit um organizations at those levels, engaging them to just hear about where their pain points are and where they're struggling with evaluation or what their needs might be, and then trying to develop that into a white paper.
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But I found that that approach was not always successful because as to like when I sent my email, they would sort of try to pass me off to like, oh, well, I'm you should probably talk to our evaluation person about that.
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Or, you know, let me send you over to the program manager because they might have better insight.
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And so it was tough because I'm trying to tell them I would like to speak to you because you're the decision maker.
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Right.
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They weren't always making the connection about what I was trying to do with it.
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I think this is so amazing because you put in, we just made our best guess, right?
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But you had relocated from Canada to California and then eventually to Arizona.
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So you didn't have the exact the network in the US that you had in Canada.
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Right.
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And then you were also moving from full-time consulting.
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And so, with all of those changes in mind, trying to figure out how do you get on the calendar of decision makers?
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How do you get their attention with people that don't know you yet?
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Of course, you could call back to the people in Canada, but you wanted to also grow the business here in the US.
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And so what my reflection back in the journey that you've taken is that that initial the learnings from this, right?
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Like the willingness that you had and have had and still have to put a strategy in place.
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And then you realize, wait, you put it in place a long enough to figure out this is really valuable, but it's not getting the attention of the right people.
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And so then my recollection is you shifted from that tour of the white paper, you know, doing a readout of the white paper, and then you moved into um hosting your own trainings essentially online for executive directors of nonprofits and leaders in that space.
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And so then tell us a little bit about what you learned from that experiment, right?
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So, yes, 100% you just nailed all of that.
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Moving to the US from Canada, I didn't have the relationships here.
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And so building up a reputation and you know, building up a network is something I had to start from scratch.
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And so, yes, it was just a matter of trying things.
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Again, I sort of, with your support and coaching, decided to niche down to social return on investment, which is just one evaluation methodology.
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It's not as well known in the US as it is in Canada and in parts of Europe, but it's very effective.
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Funders love it.
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And when organizations hear about it, they're like, wow, I really want that.
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And so it's like it's a nice product, it's a simple evaluation strategy.
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I say it's simple, not easy, just in terms of what you can do with it.
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It's very adaptable.
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So deciding to niche down on that, I just started with launching a webinar into the abyss with, you know, no, no audience.
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Just started posting on LinkedIn.
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I reached out to people that I did know and just said, hey, I'm doing this webinar on what is SROI, just to introduce the concept and see if I could get some people to attend.
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Attendance was small, but still it was the whole point of it was to just do that practice run and just get that first one under the belt and you know, see what would happen.
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And I did have some people reach out to me after though to say we would love to talk more about that.
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And a couple of those organizations I actually did end up getting some work from.
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So it was fruitful in that sense, just to start introducing that whole concept.
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And so really focusing on that allowed me to then develop a LinkedIn strategy where that's sort of all I post about, you know, posting past SROI evaluations because people like to see that.
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I mean, with SROI, the condensed version of what it does is it it's able to show how the investment in the program leads to economic and social value.
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So you can say for every dollar invested in this crime prevention program, the systems are saving about$4.50 in the long run because by helping youth early on and and sort of doing some preventative work, they're not involved in the justice system, they're not going through the courts, they're not, you know, getting into trouble at school, they're re-engaged with school.
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So there's all these things that happen.
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And so it's a nice evaluation methodology and just being able to share that was was creating some interest on LinkedIn.
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So I started noticing I was getting about three to five new followers or connections per week just from posting about that and keeping that train rolling.
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And then sort of the big idea I had most recently was this.
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Oh, before you go, I want to before you go into the big idea, which everyone's gonna want to hear, I want to say one other thing that I maybe you remember this, or maybe it's like part of the blur.
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But you did such a good job, like you were just describing, Crystal, of building this webinar.
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At one point, a bunch of bots like registered or something, and then we had to work through that.
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And then and you gave this webinar and you started building a content, you know, a visibility strategy, a thought leadership strategy that was creating these connections.
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My recollection also was that you were getting a lot of conversations from this activity, and it was more of the decision maker from than you had in the first strategy, but you were still starting to get stuck in the friend zone a little bit with those individuals, and it wasn't moving on to as many engagements as you were expecting or thought it would.
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Say a little bit about that part of the journey of how you navigated through that and maybe how you started thinking a little bit differently and how you decided then to it was time to morph into this next strategy we're gonna talk about here in a second.
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Right.
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So, yes, it was definitely a period of learning, I like to call it.
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Yes, and it was again it was just trial and error and it was uncomfortable.
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But just doing that and then, you know, sort of trying something and see what would happen.
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And I think the challenge there was I still was not clear on what I was offering.
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Because, you know, I would have these conversations and I would say, like, yes, I can help with that.
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And I, you know, I or I just kind of jumped to, well, let me put together a proposal for you after I had heard about what they might like.
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And, you know, from there, then sort of sometimes they'd see the price tag and just be like, we don't have the budget for that right now, or they'd say, you know, we need to go away and find a funder.
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So we're still very interested, but we're going to have to look for funding for this and come back.
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And a lot of times, too, admittedly, I was sort of letting them take the lead on what things would look like.
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So, you know, I was I was quite guilty of saying, you know, what do you need?
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Or I can adjust the cost based on what you have for a budget, and just sort of, I don't know if it's from a scarcity or lack mindset because I try not to live in that space, but it was certainly like that mentality of like, I want the work just to keep the work going and again to build relationships.
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So that was one part of it that was quite tough as well, is I was starting to get those conversations on my calendar, but I couldn't quite nail down what that conversation looked like and sort of how I didn't have that formula of this is how I'm going to go into it, this is my approach.
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It wasn't very structured.
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I was sort of just going in, saying, letting them tell me what they might need, letting me tell them how I can potentially help them, then proposal, which I think is a normal strategy for a lot of us.
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But there was still that little missing piece that I couldn't quite figure out as to like why they were not quite following through on it.
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Um, so almost like they were sort of just sampling or, you know, having a conversation just to kind of see what it's about to get an idea for themselves, as opposed to being very serious about wanting this thing done.
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Yeah.
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And so what shifted, Crystal, when you think about that process and now what you're doing, was there a mindset shift that you had that helped to get out of that?
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I like to call it the premature proposal process.
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I mean, really, we just that whole process can be uncomfortable for us, right?
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So it's like, let me just jump to the end and see if you're if you are serious or not, or if you want to move forward.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:34.240
Let's skip over the middle part of having to like craft this and go through iterations and get feedback that maybe we don't want to hear or whatever the reason is.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:41.359
So say more about what you learned in that process and how it helps shift out of the premature proposal phase.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:52.079
I think I had to really drill down on who I wanted to work with, what my ICO clients look like, what I wanted to be charging for these services, knowing that there is some flexibility.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:21:00.319
I mean, my work does have a lot of flexibility, and I'm okay to adjust that, you know, because I can always change the scope of work a little bit, but still deliver.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:07.119
But I definitely had to just go into it with a different mindset around I'm the business owner here.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:13.200
They have reached out asking for my services and you know what I have to offer and they want to have that conversation.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:27.359
But going in with a sort of just a bit of a plan, like I said, you know, listening for things to sort of help me assess their readiness and also looking for ways that I could potentially help them at no cost just from what they're saying.
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:49.920
So if they were telling me that they don't have a designated evaluator in-house and that they haven't done any evaluation before, I was able to just say, well, why don't we start with me sending you some of my free resources and you take a look at them and you know, do a little bit of an assessment to see where you're at, to see if you're ready for this SROI or some kind of other evaluation support.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:57.119
And that was really low risk because you know, I really believe in the concept of like even if you lose the sale, win the relationship.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:01.119
And so, you know, where you can add value and be Helpful.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:10.799
They may not have been ready to work with me, but just to build that relationship and to have added value for them and just given some support at a time they might need it, they do come back around.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.880
I've had that happen several times now.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:13.519
Yes.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:16.960
Even if you lose the sale, you win the relationship, right?
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:22.720
And I think for you, it's also dovetails with you started realizing, like, oh, I can create demand here.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.640
I can create demand outbound.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.640
I can create demand inbound.
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:28.240
I can create demand.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:37.039
And so then as you're having these conversations with decision makers, with ideal clients, every one deal doesn't feel so urgent.
00:22:37.119 --> 00:23:01.359
It feels like, okay, I can give value to this organization, but with my free resources to start with this organization is in a pinch, or because they need to have this evaluation done, or they're have some fundraising that's coming up that they need the story to be developed around, or whatever the reason is, and be able to triage them on your own and versus feeling like you were just saying, I need this deal to have the cash flow.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:01.920
Yeah.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:02.480
Okay.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:25.359
So the other thing that I thought might be valuable to talk through before we talk about the incredible example that we're about to talk through is the thought process that you had around like yourself as a consultant and being an expert and a peer advisor to the executive director versus like a vendor or an extra pair of hands.
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:33.599
Can you talk a little bit, Crystal, about how you shifted your mindset as into more of a peer mindset to those decision makers?
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:34.240
Yes.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.839
And that was very tough.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:39.039
Again, because of the way that nonprofits operate.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.200
It is very, you know, people wear a lot of hats.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.599
You're sort of pulled into different directions.
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:48.880
And so it's very easy to be sort of positioned as an employee.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:55.119
You know, I mean, I've even had in team meetings some executive directors refer to me as a contract employee.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:55.519
Yeah.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:57.599
And it's different than a consultant.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:09.039
And so, yeah, I had to work through that because again, part of letting them use that language and see me that way, I had this mentality that, well, that's not a big deal.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:15.359
It's not really harming anything because at the end of the day, I'm doing this work and I'm getting paid as a consultant, and that's really all I wanted.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:32.480
But where I was sort of running into challenges with that was then having, you know, people in leadership positions change the scope of work a little bit based on what they knew of evaluation or their assumptions, or saying, well, we kind of want it to look this way for whatever reason.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:40.559
And so I was sort of letting them sort of again take the lead on the work and determine how it would look.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:46.079
You know, obviously I don't let people just tell me what the results are of their evaluations because that's why I'm there.
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:52.079
But just falling into that role of an employee and them saying, okay, well, no, now we want to do this and now we want to do that.
00:24:52.319 --> 00:25:02.000
So I really had to step back and then again look at how I communicate the type of work I do, communicate the way that I work with organizations.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.799
I'm very deliverables focused now.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:12.240
Whereas before I was sort of, you know, as I was like wading into full-time consultant territory, I just wanted to be helpful.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:14.480
So I was like, you know what, that's fine.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:21.359
I knew that I was sort of over-delivering and maybe doing too much, but I also knew that I was doing that.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.400
And I was like, my goal is to taper that off.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:24.720
Yeah.
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.440
Once I get sort of my footing under me as I continue to build out this business.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:37.279
And so yeah, that was a mindset shift for sure, having to just be because I am an assertive, confident person.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:50.000
And so just being able to say, well, no, here's again the scope of work, and just defaulting back to that and saying, here's the deliverables, and you know, if that's going to change it, then the engagement's going to look a bit different.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.240
And that, yes, my support will end.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:59.599
So I always make sure that I'm building in things like sustainability planning or succession planning so that we don't hit the end.
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:29.680
And I mean, I'm happy to continue the engagements, which does happen quite a bit, but I just want to have those conversations up front and then just keep that mindset for myself that if this is a one-year engagement, I want to achieve everything I said I would and meet those deliverables, regardless of whether or not I continue on with them, but leave them in a good place so that if I want to end the engagement as well, do other things, or maybe just we weren't aligned on something, that they still get value and it sort of doesn't just fall apart the second I leave.
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:30.160
Yeah.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:41.839
And that's where removing myself as a quote employee and really, you know, continuing to reiterate that I am a consultant and I'm consulting.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:52.000
And yes, the expert piece was also challenging because when they would treat me like an employee, they were it almost felt like they were being dismissive of my expertise.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.480
Yeah.
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:58.400
And admittedly, I would sometimes get a little bit salty feeling like, well, you called me for the help.
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:13.519
You told me what the problems were, and you know, I've been doing this for over 18 years, and I'm telling you what I've seen and what I've done and what I know, and doing what's in the scope of work, and sometimes they were still feeling like they wanted to, you know, say, Well, no, it should be this way.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:56.079
And so there was sometimes those, I wouldn't say battles because there was never any sort of confrontation, but for me, I had feelings of just being like, How am I going to establish myself more as an expert and not to, you know, swoop in and tell everyone I know everything and don't don't challenge me on things, but really just positioning myself as, you know, I'm here to help, I'm bringing my expertise, I'm doing what I do best and doing what I know and willing to, you know, collaborate with the team, but also continuing to just sort of be that independent consultant and that independent expert that they were looking for when they first reached out.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.960
And I think it starts for you.
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.519
I noticed it started in the sales cycle, right?
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:09.519
Where you were starting to step up as the leader in the sales cycle and the expert and the person recommending what needs to happen.
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:32.240
And then that set the tone because of the different way you were looking at yourself versus letting them make those decisions and the way they were seeing you, and it all shifted from the you starting to look at yourself as that peer and that expert, setting that up in the sales cycle, and then them treating you so differently as a result in the engagements that you were landing.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:32.960
Right.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:33.920
Amazing.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.240
Okay, so so you were trialing and erroring.
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.839
Sometimes it was frustrating.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.799
This was not like an easy journey, I would say.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:55.039
It was a frustrating journey at times, but then there would be these amazing glimmers of success as you were creating more and more leads and more conversations with decision makers.
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.039
Sometimes they would get stuck in the friend zone, sometimes they would go to a contract.
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:07.440
But then you uh came up with the idea that you're gonna share with us, which has been creating some amazing leads and contracts.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:20.960
And so walk us through how you decided I'm gonna shift a little bit from my webinar approach and training approach uh to this next strategy, and why you think this one is working so effectively.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:27.839
Yeah, so I really took some time to think about how to create inbound leads.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:28.640
Yeah.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.839
We had talked about that, you know, in our mastermind.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:38.079
Um, you've talked about it on other episodes of the podcast, and that's the dream for all of us is to have those inbound leads.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:46.480
And so I really took some time to just really dwell on how nonprofits approach work, approach funding.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:52.079
And what sort of came to me was that they're very used to applying for grants.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.920
They're very heavily grant funded and or through donors.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:02.319
And so they're very, they're very used to sort of like having to fill out an application to talk about what they need.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:10.799
And and looking also for where they can, I mean, get get some funding for free, essentially, or some support for free.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:16.079
And so there was like a number of things that sort of made me realize this idea.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:19.680
So looking at how they look for funding was the big one.
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:29.440
But then also for myself, I was noticing that I still needed to do a lot more work to just develop my reputation and my network here in the US.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:36.720
And, you know, I was looking for conferences and and the times I was looking, I had like just missed a great one by like a month by the time I found it.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:42.720
So, you know, the next year I can go and trying to look for all these speaking engagements just to get out there and get in front of people.
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:50.160
And there's certainly lots of opportunities, and I have some of them over the next, you know, year or so, but the timing was not working.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:55.200
So that was another piece, was just, you know, how can I get out there and get to know them.
00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:03.519
And another challenge, as I was posting things on LinkedIn, was that so some of my SROI evaluations I had done in Canada.
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.680
Um, some organizations are okay with you sharing that information publicly and some aren't.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.400
So, you know, we discussed that at the time of a contract.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:24.319
And I was sort of running out of things to talk about on LinkedIn or, you know, for conferences or speaking engagements because I'd already talked about the projects that I had done that I was able to talk about.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:34.960
And so I realized I really needed to sort of develop a almost like a brand new body of work in the US and with US-based organizations just to have that regional context.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:43.920
And so I decided that I was going to give some of these SROIs away for free, which sounds very counterintuitive.
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:53.920
And I did a lot of wrestling with it and and a lot of that thought work around making sure I wasn't giving it away for free because I felt like I couldn't charge for it.
00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:13.359
There's a big difference between I don't think people want this or it's not valuable, versus this is an opportunity for me to do some for free because not only does it benefit the organizations that would receive that work, but then I would have just a more of a portfolio in the US that I could then draw from.
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.680
So I work with the University of Northern Colorado.
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:23.759
I have a colleague there who runs this social research lab, and she has a number of students in this sociology department.
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:30.480
And her and I have collaborated on a couple of other SROI projects for organizations that they're already working with.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.000
And so there's a keen interest.
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:45.039
And so I was also thinking, you know, if I was to offer some of these for free, I can include those students because they can work on them at no cost, but then still have that learning opportunity of to do some hands-on work.
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:52.799
So then the idea was growing, and essentially where it got to was I created this initiative called Value Made Visible.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:33:02.160
And it's called that because when we we sometimes say that like the value of the work in these nonprofit sectors can be hard to see, right?
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:10.160
It's like you know you're doing good work when you're, you know, helping someone, you know, who's going through a re-entry program, being decarcerated.
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:16.240
We know on paper that that's a you know a good thing, but what does it truly look like and where's the value in that?
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.200
And so I set it up this whole initiative almost like a grant process.
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:35.599
So I I positioned it as nonprofits that are small to medium size, so less than$5 million operating budget, can apply to receive an SROI evaluation at no cost.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.079
And then it would be semester-based.
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:44.079
So I did like a fall intake and a winter intake based on what the university students would have going on.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:47.839
So there would be two cohorts of students to work on them at those at that time.
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:52.400
And then I built out, you know, a landing page on my website for it.
00:33:52.640 --> 00:34:03.119
I built out this big application online to ask, you know, a number of questions just around like what's your operating budget, who are your funders, which program do you want, why do you want this SROI?
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:08.559
And so I I built it like that because they're so used to applying for things like that.
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:14.719
That approach for them is like, oh, we apply for the thing and we get the money or the funding or the opportunity.
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:20.880
And I knew that that would sort of draw them in and be something that's familiar for them.
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:32.159
And so I I launched this in the middle of July and just started blasting it on LinkedIn, sharing it with, you know, people that I had met here, different foundations.
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.400
And I just said, hey, you know, please share this with your grantees, see if they're interested.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.639
And the uptake was was huge.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:42.639
I mean, there was just applications coming in left, right, and center.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.000
I think I think there's about a hundred right now.
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.840
So it actually closes today for the fall intake, and then we'll still do winter.
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.559
And so, as part of that, I had all of these organizations applying.
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:05.280
This was also going to help me grow an email list because then I was sort of getting the contact information from, you know, I sort of positioned it like the executive directors needed to apply.
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:10.079
So then I've got this growing email list of people I can reach out to.
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:14.960
And my mentality was, you know, I'm gonna give away three for each semester.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.760
That's what me and the students decided would be reasonable and just with my own capacity.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.159
So we'll do, we'll pick three.
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.760
The ones that aren't chosen, then I could still reach out because they're sort of a warm audience at this point.
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.519
I mean, they do want the SRY.
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:43.760
And so I, you know, I I plan to reach out to the ones that aren't selected, but still, you know, offer them an opportunity to book a consultation with me on my calendar to see if it's something they still want to explore as a paid engagement.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:44.159
Yeah.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:51.920
And or if nothing else, you know, I can reach out to them and just start sharing the results of the SROIs that were selected.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:06.320
I in my future emails and newsletters, I can say, like, here's what was found, and still show them the value of this work and hopefully entice them to explore it, you know, with their with their own funding where they can apply for different intakes.
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:32.159
And then in addition to this, where it has sort of really led to this unintended, well, it was shouldn't say that it was intentional, but I I didn't foresee this, was that some organizations emailed me directly with questions saying, um, just want to talk with you to see if we're a fit because like our funding structure is a bit different, or here our program isn't quite fitting based on what the information online says.
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:48.320
And so I set up calls with them and ended up talking with, you know, three to four organizations who we just through our conversation, it was very clear that something bigger could could occur as far as a larger evaluation or something multi-phased.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:37:00.800
And so in the last month, I have secured over$250,000 worth of engagements with these organizations that weren't a fit for this small little SROI scope.
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:07.599
Well, they will still have SROI, but it's just at like a larger national scale or more targeted for their programs.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:11.760
And so a lot of them were like, I love this methodology.
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.280
We want to work with you.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:21.199
So once I sort of had them in the call and we're talking about what we could do for them and how it would add value, they were just sort of like, yes.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.360
The answers were just yes at every turn.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:24.559
It was crazy.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:32.960
It's so amazing, Crystal, because you essentially the pivot here that I see is the question you asked yourself.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:34.880
How do I create more inbound interest?
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:46.800
Like you did so much work to get clarity around what it is, you you know, everything came back to I need to be more clear and specific around who my ideal client is and what I'm offering to them.
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:51.679
And you landed on the SR S ROI as your foot in the door offer.
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.719
I remember us having a conversation at one point, like you're you're committing to this for one year.
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.960
Let's make this work, no matter what.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:05.760
And then you can always change, but getting yourself to the place, like figuring out how to get clients for SROI.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:06.880
Is that is that true?
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.119
Was that am I remembering this correctly?
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:09.599
Yes.
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:10.719
And you were so right.
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.719
And I'm just forever grateful to you because I love SROI.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:16.719
It is so valuable.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.360
It's it's one of the simplest evaluation approaches with the biggest impact.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.960
And so, you know, I'm not sure why I was still chasing other work.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:34.480
And you and I did agree that if other work came in that was inbound that wasn't SROI, I was still going to, you know, entertain that.
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:47.519
But I was not going to actively go seeking, you know, other types of evaluation work or, you know, other types of research work, which some of that work has still, you know, been inbound for me over the last several months.
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:54.960
And it's like with with just joy, I'm able to say, like, yes, 100%, or you know, I don't have capacity for that right now.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.920
Um, fortunately, I have a network of other consultants I could share work with and that.
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:25.760
But yeah, just really deciding to sort of double down on this one thing and then build it out and and have that mindset of like, okay, this is this one initiative is doing so many things simultaneously for me as far as like building that that reputation, helping organizations with something, building an email, you know, list that I that I currently don't have.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:40.320
On top of that, in the application, I basically built into like the expectations around it of like this is free for you, but here's the expectation that that you need to, you know, adhere to based on just capacity I have.
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.239
So things like they need to designate someone to pull all the data together for me.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:44.800
Right.
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:57.519
They need somebody who can like, because it's a short, almost like sprint length SROI, I need somebody to like be available to me at least once a week where we can go back and forth and I can get what I need to do the work.
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:07.840
The other thing I built in was that they have to introduce me to their funders, or we'll do like a joint presentation of the findings to their funders.
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:19.199
So they have to set up that meeting with them when the SROI is done so that I can get in front of their funders this SROI because their funders are giving money to other similar programs.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.960
And so I want the funders to be aware of this methodology.
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:23.360
Yeah.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:34.880
And so, you know, and I put in there that like they have to do a like two LinkedIn posts or social media posts talking about SROI and, you know, naming uncommon evaluation as the one that supported that.
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.960
And, you know, I'll do the same and just talk about all the great stuff they're doing as well.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:54.719
So there was a way to also to continue to generate those inbound leads by making sure that like the dissemination process includes getting in front of the people that are making decisions about funding elsewhere for other similar programs.
00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:01.679
So it's sort of a multi-pronged approach that just seems to be working and there's just lots of interest around it.
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:03.280
And so far, so good.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:04.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:05.360
I love that.
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:29.599
Now, of course, not all the listeners uh live in this space, in the nonprofit space or even in the evaluation space, but there's so much that translates here in the sense, and that's why I was so excited when you agreed to come on the podcast because your willingness to experiment, your willingness to continue refining and adjusting until you figured out this is working for me.
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.239
And it's working in a lot of different ways, right?
00:41:32.320 --> 00:42:08.719
What it's it's uh less common for consultants to give away work for free entirely, but you put so much scope around it that it's so much boundary around what this includes and thought through all the other benefits to your business, the case studies that you're acquiring, the the named clients that you're acquiring, the the benefit that to the students who are you're teaching as you go along with this process, and your ability to create this interest that then led to the other engagements that that are paid and the 250K and growing that you're landing.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:28.800
Um I think it's such an amazing example for all consultants to hear because that create that willingness to take action, to evaluate what you're doing, to figure out where your mindset might be off that was leading you slightly in the wrong direct, you know, in a not the wrong direction, but in a direction where you weren't getting the results that you were wanting.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:34.480
And also to look at the strategy to say, okay, this, I still need to haven't quite put my finger on it.
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:44.239
And to get to this point where you've got this recurring campaign process essentially built around the student semesters, I think is is so exciting.
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:45.199
Well, thank you.
00:42:45.360 --> 00:43:05.519
Yes, and it's it really is it's important, I think, to it's shown me that it's important to look outside of your your sector or your industry because I remember when I started working with you, I had this mindset that, oh, well, I work with nonprofits and they don't have the same amount of money or same funding structures as corporate clients.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:22.000
And so I had a little bit of a limiting belief around what I could achieve in the nonprofit space because I was sort of like, well, they just don't have the money, or they're not as open to me kind of coming in with a foot-in-the-door offer and being sold to in the same way.
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:29.199
And so I really had to relearn a number of things when it comes to like seeing my my business as a business.
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:38.079
And, you know, yes, I work in the nonprofit space, but it's a large space and the fund, the funding structures look different for everyone.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.400
And, you know, they they do have money.
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:42.159
I mean, they have operational budgets.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:44.800
And so really shifting my mindset that way.
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:55.599
And, you know, with what I'm talking about today, I'm sure there's, yeah, people in the corporate sector that are I hope it gets people's wheels turning a little bit about can this be adapted?
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.679
Could they learn from the nonprofit sector on how to take an approach?
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.440
Into the corporate world.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:01.920
Right.
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:13.519
And just sort of looking at where there's maybe some opportunity for overlap, because I think giving stuff away for free when it makes sense is so valuable.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.079
I mean, there's a reason why your podcast is free.
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:16.719
Right.
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.800
It adds so much value for so many people that even if they don't work with you, they're getting value.
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:25.599
And and and like any podcast, I mean, people are giving information away for free.
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:28.480
They're having resources online for free.
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:48.320
And so I think it's it's it's a good idea to find a way to like offer something for free that makes sense to just show what you can do and give people that opportunity to work with you a little bit in like a low-risk situation, and then you build that relationship.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:51.360
And then all of a sudden you're the person they want to work with.
00:44:51.440 --> 00:45:04.079
And so I think if I can take from the corporate world and apply it to the nonprofit sector, I think I think that the nonprofit sector can also be sort of applied towards the corporate sector as well.
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:05.760
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:07.840
And it doesn't always have to be free, right?
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:17.519
It can be free and then like a low commitments, like the foot in the door offer that we work on in the sprint between 5K and 25K.
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:36.079
Um, you're doing this in such a creative way that applies not only, I think, to your industry, to your um desire to also give back to the students and their learnings, um, but also create starts creating that trust with your ideal clients in a way that builds your reputation.
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:36.480
Right.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:40.639
And um, like you said, it accomplishes multiple goals at one time.
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:41.280
Yeah.
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:50.320
Crystal, as you're thinking about the consultants who are listening to this and they've been experimenting and things aren't necessarily working quite yet.
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.400
What advice would you give to them?
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:59.679
I think you just have to be willing to try everything and and be realistic about the results you're seeing.
00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:07.119
There was times working with you where I was telling myself I was trying everything, but when I look at it objectively, I wasn't.
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:07.840
Yeah.
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:25.360
So I think, you know, just being very clear with yourself and and just being willing to, you know, feel the uncomfortable feelings around something that might be foreign to you, like, you know, a sales call or, you know, approaching a leader that you don't know and sort of trying to get in front of them.
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:26.800
So I think that's the big thing.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:29.920
It's just trying different things and seeing what works.
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:36.079
And really, I mean, the evaluator in me, you know, it's like I'm always evaluating sort of, is this working?
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:40.320
I mean, I look at like, here's the activity that I'm doing, and then what's the outcome?
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.840
And so I think just really stopping to assess what's working.
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:47.360
And, you know, if something doesn't work the first time, it doesn't mean that it's not working.
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:51.199
You might just need to tweak it a little bit, or the timing might not be right.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.159
You might need to have one step before that thing.
00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:15.360
So I really think it's just trial and error and and seeing what's working and just sometimes being willing to do something completely different, or doing that thing that you were avoiding doing, thinking, you know, I mean, for me again, I sort of was like had this mentality that, well, no, I need to help them apply for grants and you can't just go in there asking for money.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:21.679
And then it's like, no, you need to go in there and sort of talk about what you have to offer and see if they have funding for that.
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:26.800
So those were the big things I think was just really trying things, seeing what works.
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:29.920
And some things weren't, you know, the speaking tour wasn't working for me.
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:30.559
Right.
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:31.199
That's right.
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:33.199
And I don't I believe it can work.
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:35.280
I think it's a phenomenal approach.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:41.679
And, you know, it might work for me in the future if I, you know, start to develop some different white papers on different things.
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:51.679
And so I think it's again, it's that timing piece because now I've got an email list through this one initiative I've built that I've got email addresses.
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.119
I can be like, hey, remember me?
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:54.400
I'm writing a white paper.
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:55.599
Could I talk to you about this?
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:56.159
Yeah.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:57.199
Yeah, that's right.
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.480
That could potentially still work for me at some point.
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.559
It's just, is it the right time right now?
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:09.920
Right now, I just really realized that I needed to build a reputation, build a body of work, and that's the priority.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.239
So I was trying all these other things that were sort of further down the spectrum.
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:14.880
Yeah.
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:18.400
As opposed to just being like, here's where I'm at right now in my business as well.
00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:20.559
My business is essentially brand new here.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.280
It's a it's a little baby of a business, so need to help it crawl before it can walk.
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:26.079
Yeah.
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:59.840
And I think, you know, taking away again, as the listeners are applying this to their own businesses, one of the things that I saw gel together for you, Crystal, is like this combination of you doing something that real that you love doing because we can all do something for a week or two, but as we keep doing something that isn't exactly aligned to the way we want to be operating, or isn't just the way we want to be running the business in the long run, it starts to become such a heavy lift.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:08.159
And so then at the same time, so we've got this like, is the method you've chosen something that you align with and feel like you could keep doing it?
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:16.719
And then we've got, I think the combination that of that with the mindset, like, do you believe that what you're doing is actually going to work or not?
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:26.480
And if you're sold on it, it's so much easier to sell, you know, quote unquote, I'm not using the word sell in the sense of selling something, but more of like being convinced of, right?
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:28.639
Being convinced of this is going to work.
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:32.000
And so then you approach things with so much more certainty.
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:40.239
And the combination of those things really to me is what ultimately drives the whether something's going to work or not.
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:57.519
And you kept being willing to experiment and feel frustrated and question whether this was going to work overall until you found those things that the the combination of those uh things that you're doing now that really have locked together to say, you know what, this is something I love doing.
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:02.079
It doesn't feel like a heavy lift in the sense of it feels so valuable.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:10.880
And and you truly believe and have seen the results of the not that ultimately the results will come in a macro level.
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:20.159
And like you've been talking about, the the 250k of engagements you've landed and also the the longer-term relationships you've built in the email list.
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:21.760
Yep, 100%.
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:26.880
I think you really nailed it talking about the at the valuable piece.
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:39.519
So a lot of research work I've done in the past, I mean, I love research, but I was, you know, I would do a research report for a for a government on, you know, how to respond to human trafficking.
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:44.159
Well, oftentimes that report wound up in like a shredder somewhere or on a shelf.
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:47.360
Yeah, it wasn't very it wasn't actioned.
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:57.360
And so I was really starting to, you know, I like the work, but I was I was getting frustrated about what was being done with my work afterwards.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:01.599
And it it went beyond, oh, well, I got paid, and so who cares what they do after that.
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:11.440
I was like, no, this is like important to me, you know, in terms of my values, that like I'm doing this work because I do want it to make a difference.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:16.880
You know, I do want there to be better responses to human trafficking and child welfare and things like that.
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:40.480
So with this, with this approach and like focusing on SROI, I'm I'm enjoying my business a lot more because it's an actionable evaluation that, you know, I'm already the projects I've done down here in the US, they're using them, they're posting about them on social media, not because I asked them to, because they're excited to talk about it.
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:54.480
They're setting up meetings with their funders, they're telling everyone in town about what they're doing and you know, being able to say, like, look at we for our when you invest in our program, the the impact is five times the amount of the investment.
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:55.280
Like they love that.
00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:12.880
And so not only is this like great business-wise for me in terms of building that up, but I'm I'm feeling a lot happier about my business and like I'm I'm very like, I'm sort of loving my business again because it's just a lot more aligned with yeah, what I what I'm trying to achieve here.
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.239
It's not just to, you know, make money and who cares what happens after that.
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:19.679
Like I want, I want this to help these organizations.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:28.079
And, you know, even with traditional valuation types, you know, you do this big report, everyone gets those reports, they never know what to do with them.
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.400
You know, it's like who does anything with it?
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:33.920
The executive director, the program manager, the frontline staff.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:35.920
You can have all these recommendations.
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:47.199
And unless they, you know, hire me or someone else to implement those recommendations, they might pick one or two and be like, okay, well, we just wanted to know if we're doing okay.
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:51.440
Or it was a funding requirement to have an evaluation so we can check that box.
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:58.239
But with SROI, the the thing that's making me the happiest is that I am seeing them actually do something with it.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:03.679
And even in the application for value made visible, I said, what do you want to do with this?
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:07.679
Like, how will this help your organization and what will this mean to you?
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.119
You know, it wasn't just me collecting data points on like what they have going on.
00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:21.840
It was really like, you know, and so that's how when I'm like looking through and making the decision about, you know, who will receive the SROIs, I really want to see sort of what they plan to do with it.
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.079
Yeah, and how it's going to impact them.
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:34.079
And so that does when you're doing that kind of work and you're enjoying the work and it's sort of fun, you're working with great people, it's just it's so much better when you're a business owner.
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:36.880
You have work like that and clients like that.
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.719
It just makes all the difference.
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.079
It's so amazing.
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:53.199
Crystal, if your game for it as we wrap up, are tell us the listeners, if they're deciding whether or not to join the lead gen sprint, which is the current way to work with me, what advice would you give them?
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.880
Oh, just do it.
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:58.800
It just does because it doesn't matter how much you think you know.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.440
There's there's so much opportunity for learning.
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:12.639
And, you know, when you see the the chat areas and and somebody saying, I'm struggling with this, there's so many comments under that of, oh, I had that exact problem, but here's how I solved it.
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:14.239
Or I'm having that problem too.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.320
And they're like, Melissa, please help us, you know.
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:23.920
Like, so just having that network, I think, is so important because it can be lonely as an independent consultant.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:36.239
I mean, I found that, you know, I moved to the US on my own with my dogs and working for myself, it's like very easy to just sort of be in the house all day and and and not having people to bounce ideas off of.
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:40.880
And so I think not only having that network, but just having ideas.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:46.400
I mean, working with you is where all the wheels started turning on this stuff.
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:50.320
And when I look at what I've achieved now, it it seems so simple.
00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:55.119
And I'm sort of like, why wasn't this just just so clear to me based on what I know?
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:07.039
But it was really that work and like getting ideas from other people and looking at, you know, somebody who's, you know, that does consulting work in like the accounting field.
00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:14.639
And I'm like, is there l anything that no matter how small that I can take from what they're doing and apply it to what I'm doing?
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.360
And there was always something, always something.
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:20.719
Or sometimes it was just shared tears, and you're like, you know what?
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:26.239
It doesn't matter who you are, what sector you work in, some of these things will just make us all cry.
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:37.840
But really, I think it's just the way to learn and just, you know, get to sort of cherry pick some ideas and and then really dwell on how you can apply that to your business.
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:39.119
That's exciting to me.
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:39.760
Yeah.
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:41.440
The heart of consulting, right?
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:42.000
Oh, yeah.
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:42.559
Amazing.
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:47.039
Well, as we're wrapping up, anything else that we didn't cover that you wanted to share?
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:48.559
No, I think that's it.
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:58.239
I just uh hope this can, like I said, help someone else come up with an idea or you know, think about how they think about their work and how they approach their work.
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:04.639
And I just think it's so valuable for all of us to hear each other's stories and just it is a form of support.
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:10.400
You know, even if it's not 100% applicable all the time, it's just nice to hear what other people are doing.
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:21.119
And I think we all root for each other as independent consultants, and so it's it's fun to share our stories and just cheer each other on, even if it's just by listening to your podcast.
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:21.840
Yes.
00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:24.000
Well, thank you for being here, Crystal.
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:30.320
We're definitely rooting for you and excited to see what you've decided to do inspires in other people as well.
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:32.000
So thank you for being here.
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:33.280
Thank you for having me.
00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:41.039
Thanks for joining me this week on the Grow Your Independent Consulting Business Podcast.
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:45.360
If you like today's episode, I have three quick next steps for you.
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:52.320
First, click subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to make sure you don't miss future episodes.
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:59.039
Next, leave me a review in your podcast app so other independent consultants can find and benefit too.
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:14.639
And finally, to put the ideas from today's episode into action, head over to Melissa Lieberman.com for the show notes and more resources to help you grow your consulting practice from your first few projects into a full fledged business.
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:16.480
See you next week.