michael: Okay. And we're live happy Wednesday, August 18th. Um, today I'm going to be interviewing Elmer Quintero, who I've been friends with for man. Maybe it's been like four years, five years. I'm gonna to ask him about that. It's been awhile. And, uh, we met at open mic renegades, which is a amazing open mic nights in, um, Brooklyn and Queens.
And, uh, it was at that event, uh, still running and we'll be in the future, but, uh, it really changed my life and, and got me to play music and perform again, uh, after a really long while. So, um, I owe a lot to that events and to Shenice who I'll be interviewing next week. I believe. Let me check that yeah, next week and, uh, to Elmer and to everyone that, and Jay.
Everyone that's part of the event that goes to the event, the poets, the artists that attend. Um, so I've been following Elmer for awhile. All, all of that backstory to say I've been following Elmer's work for awhile. He's a photographer. He is a videographer. I'm a poet though. I don't know if he would allow me to say as a poet, but I do think he is, and he's a great writer, um, and an all around great person and one of them, uh, to bring him on the show because he's not someone that's pursuing a photography, full-time, uh, it's something that he's really passionate about.
It's something that he continues to learn and grow. Um, every day week that I see him post something new and I thought that's a good take on it because, um, I think a big part of this creative thing is that you don't have. Only do that. You know, you can make money in one way and then use that money to maybe make creative work or whatever.
Right. Um, there's not one kind of way of living a creative life. So, um, yeah, so super excited to interview him today, to talk to him about his process and about, uh, his motivations and personal roadblocks and things that have inspired him and, um, everything in between. So I'm going to take a sip of coffee.
I'm going to invite a bunch of people, um, to the chat. I see a bunch of people who are already joining, which is awesome. Hi to everyone. Um, we're almost done with this interview series, uh, which is kind of upsetting to me. There's only a three, four interviews left, which is crazy. It's been insane. We've done almost 27 interviews so far.
We're going to keep doing stuff. We're going to move it to the Exploring Creativity page. So follow that if you haven't yet. Um, Very excited for the last few interviews and excited to start writing this book. So, um, yeah, like I said, I'm going to invite people and sip coffee at the same time
and I'm not a good multitasker, so I'm surprised at, and just spill that on myself, but we're good. Let's see here. And, uh, I don't know if you're able to, if anyone's viewing, but feel free to invite anyone you think might be interested in this discussion, um, invite them here or feel free to share, um, this live to your story after we post it or any previous lives, um, really would love to kind of spread what we're doing.
Um, thank you, Terence. Appreciate it. And Eduardo, Hey. Um, yeah, spread it. Um, the more people that know the better, you know, I want people to start to demystify creativity a little bit and keep the beauty and magic of creativity as well. That's the purpose of this book? Um, it's kind of the purpose of my life in general, um, teaching and trying to demystify the design process and, um, make it accessible to anyone.
And I think it's very similar with creativity. It's a really fun thing and enjoyable thing to get into, to create something. But a lot of people, um, have some confusion around it, resistance around it, or just uncertainty during the process, which prevents them from creating more things or stops them from moving, um, before they start.
So yeah, share it like subscribe, you know, whatever they sound to YouTube, do all that. Um, and I appreciate everyone that's been watching this whole time. If you've seen all 20. Uh, three so far really, really appreciate you. If you've only seen a few, I still really appreciate you. So, um, yeah, let's get this interview started.
I'm going to invite Elmer and we can get this rolling. And, uh, also anyone that I've spammed throughout the process. Um, so man, I just want to say one more thing, which is anyone that I spammed during the process of this, of the interview series. There's been many people whose DMS just have like, please join this live.
That's like the only DM we have. So, um, apologies to them. Uh, well, Hey, hi. Good to see you going well, how about yourself?
elmer: I'm good. I'm here. I worked, actually.
michael: I like it. I like the, um, the post-it or the, um, what is it? A cork board? What does it, is that the right word for it? Yeah.
elmer: I love it. It's actually kind of cool.
My boss gave me the, gave me his office in order to do this sense of you. No way.
michael: Okay. That's cool. At least I was worried. I'm like, you're doing this during work. Are they going to get mad? But this is, that's a real
elmer: one right there. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped in into the comments honestly.
michael: Oh, awesome. Okay, great. Well, I said, you know, find a good background. I think, um, there's nothing more creative than a board where things are stuck too. I always love seeing them and like cafes and, and uh, even supermarkets. They have, I always look at it every time I walked by, you know what I'm talking about?
Like those boards,
elmer: all the memos and whatnot,
michael: like to see who's like teaching design or teaching guitar or something like that.
elmer: Um, he actually, you find yourself judging. You're judging things by the creative things.
michael: I evaluate it. I don't judge the person, but I will evaluate the design quickly at this point.
It's so instinctual where like, I see it, my brain is already like first trying to understand it. So I, I break it down probably like if I look at an interface like, um, and someone's having a problem with it, I'll break it down based on how I would have created it and how I assume that person did. Um, and I'll notice flaws where like, oh, they forgot this step, but like, it's so hard to judge, um, especially interface design because a lot of it's software driven and, um, the code that, uh, is being written sometimes just isn't written for certain things.
So it's hard to judge that and for graphic design, you know, I see certain things and I say, that's not what they're trying to do. They're just trying to teach a math class or something, or they're trying to be a math tutor. And, and I, you know, as long as it's there as I'm looking at it, so, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm ignoring it.
It's effective in that way, but yeah, I think early on it was, I felt more of, um, a competition with like other design that existed. Uh, whereas now I see it as like, it's just one linear body of design and some of it is like things that I like and other parts of it are things that I don't really like, uh, or like don't like grab me right away.
Um, all of that other stuff, like someone might be grabbed by that, or someone might not think anything of the stuff I like. So, um, it's this spectrum of different things that have been made? Um, yeah,
elmer: I think, um, my mind says seminar when like one of my friends sends me a photo, like, Hey, this is a really cool photo.
Or my sister would be like, Hey, how did they do this or something? I'll look at it. And I'll use, try to break it down. Like you said, like try and break the process of how to, how to create that specific. And there are times where I'm like, I don't know, like that's really cool. I don't know how to do it. And then it would actually push me to want to figure out how they did
michael: it.
Oh yeah. I love those moments where it's like, damn there's times where I'm like, man, I don't know how to do that. Like damn. I was like, yeah. Is it, is it motivating for you when you see stuff like that?
elmer: It is now, um, it used to be, and I kind of went through changes of where it started at first. It was intimidating where it'd be, where I would see a photo that somebody took and I'm like, damn, I could never take something like that.
And then it would kind of lead me down a rabbit hole of why am I doing this? What's the point where we're going to be that good, but now it's, it's more of a drive to, like I said, break it down. And it inspires me to want to learn new things. Because obviously as an artist, there are things that there's always going to be something that you don't know.
And you're medium that you're not going to, you're never gonna know how to do 100% of the styles that are in each medium, including, especially photography.
michael: Right, right. Because there's like so many different forms of it, you know, digital and physical, there's all this lighting, you have different models and all, I mean, yeah.
The, the variables, there are vast
elmer: th I mean, the cool thing is that, like, you can have every variable be the same and have at least three photographers in the rule and take a photo of the same subject. And those three photos all look.
michael: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I love, you know, that's, that's an interesting part of what I was saying earlier about this kind of vast spectrum of design.
It's like everyone's approaching it from a different context and like, they're trying to say a different thing and do a different thing. So like you taking a photo of, um, someone's sister, because you have a sister versus someone who only has brothers, it would just be a different perspective right away.
Um, so like, you know, I love that and that's why it's so hard to judge from like, just a general, like, this is bad on just like writing off someone's work in that way.
elmer: So especially if those artists will subject.
michael: Yeah, definitely. Um, and that's what this whole series has been about. I mean, it's like, it's so subjective and I'm trying to find all of the things that are subjective in creativity and sort of starting to get a sense.
The N the balance of each one of those things, like, you know, feedback is subjective, but like what, what part isn't, you know, trying to find that, to give some grounding to this whole creative process.
elmer: I used to, I used to be terrified of feedback. Uh, I guess it's a, it's the same thing as the moralizing of when I used to find, look at something that was better than my stuff or something that I wouldn't be able to go, uh, back then it would be, I would show a photo to select people like Jay and Shenice or whatnot.
There was a friends of mine, um, and I'd be like, Hey, what do you think of this photo? And then Steeler, Jake would be like, it's cool, but I don't like this specific thing. And it would instantly, even though I love the photo instantly to my mood, and that's not because of him, that's more of my insecurity.
I'm like, damn, if this, like, if people don't like it, what's the point are we doing here? And I, I kind kinda lost the thread, a bit of art for me that making it from my house,
michael: uh, big topic, big, big topic. Um, and we have some big topics I definitely want to cover. I think that's, it can happen so quick. And before you even noticed it, it's like you, you get into it because photography is fun or design is fun and it's, you know, there was nothing in front of you now there's something and it's amazing and it's generative and it's creative and then it becomes judged.
And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, they said this. They didn't like the fact that, like, there was a, uh, a tree kind of hanging in off frame. Like they said to edit that part out. And now all of a sudden you're like the worst photographer ever.
Definitely. I remember, you know, going to design school, we took, uh, three photography courses. And, um, I remember, uh, taking this photograph on a rainy day and I was like, this is the best thing I've ever taken. Like, this is so good. It was under like the overpass in our school and it was raining. And I was like, I captured, it was like black and white camera and it was so hard to even take a photo.
Finally, got it all dialed in. I'm like, I am the fucking best at this. This is great developed it. Somehow it came out, which is developing film is a whole different thing. Came out good, like burned and Dodds or whatever. And I showed him my professor and he's like, yeah, like, look at all the corners. I'm like, okay.
He's like, there's something in each corner that like, didn't really need to be there. Like you could have cropped it out. You could have like, kind of burned that out or Dodge that, and I was like, damn, I never even looked at the corners. Like I was so focused on the center that the corners became. The, you know, there were like little tree things.
Someone's one foot was in there and it was like, it wasn't intentionally there. So, you know, that kind of feedback back then was definitely, really, uh, formative for me because, you know, here, I thought I was doing great and then bam, okay. Now every photo there is not a corner. I never look at like every single time just said feedback is necessary for growth, but it doesn't mean we change everything just to fit their one perspective, take it with a grain of salt.
elmer: I definitely agree with that because like I said, artists, detectives, so that could be someone that could be something that someone absolutely hates. Uh, but the whole world loves it. Uh, an example would be not one of mine, but, uh, the violinist Lindsey, Lindsey Sterling, she went on, America's got talent and there was one of the judges there.
Hated her completely, completely cracked on her, her talent and said, but literally said there is no place in the world for a dump stuff violinist. And now years later, she's traveling the world tour all over the world and loved by millions of people. And it was like, if that, if that would've, she would've led that one Pierce Morgan, that was his name.
Um, if she would've let Pearson Morgan's opinion of her, like dictate her life, she wouldn't be doing the music she's doing that.
michael: Right. Yeah. And I just posted something right before this live. Uh, someone had posted it on their story and I posted it on mine. And it said, may you never be the reason why someone who loves to sing doesn't anymore or why someone dressed so differently now we're standard clothes.
Or why someone who always spoke of their dream. So wildly is now silent about them. May you never be the reason of someone giving up on a part of them because you were demotivating not appreciative or even worse, sarcastic about it. And that hit me, you know, I think that it's so easy to, to knock a creative, especially early on, um, for the work that they're opening, because it's probably not that great, you know, like it or not by great.
I mean, like, it might be very naive. It might, there might have very clear flaws to it that like, based on what they're trying to achieve, they might think it's, like I said, that photo I thought was great, but then I didn't actually want things in the corners. I didn't even know. I could think about it. Um, but if that teacher delivered that in a bad way, I may have never taken a photo again, you know, and it's it early on is where you can become very fragile.
And then even through your career, you know, it, your, your work and how you feel about it can become very attached emotionally, and it can knock you, uh, knock you off the track of creating. Have you, have you felt that any bit?
elmer: That's how the, um, multiple times, but I think that came down to my own securities where somebody could have been trying to give me constructive criticism in a nice way. When as soon as I heard that one negative thought my mind stopped and listening to them, it just spiraled into negativity. Uh, so I think that's, that's an issue that I've always had.
Uh, and I think that's of that was that's been men still is my biggest challenge.
michael: Yeah. I mean, let's dive into that then. Um, what about it, what about the feedback when someone's about to give you feedback? Like if you, what are the settings in which you're giving you're soliciting feedback from people?
elmer: Um, so right now I'm in the, I'm at the point where I'm trying to actively post a photo once a day.
Um, and I do him and I choose them in sets of three, uh, the other, the same person instead of three, or it's the same theme and three photos before I post a photo I'll order. There's a set number of people that I go to. And I some, three to three photos that I'm saying, Hey, what do you think? And like, four of them could be like, these, these are.
Um, go ahead. Like those are awesome. Go ahead. And then that one person would be like, these are great, but I don't really like that middle one. And at that point I could easily say cool. And then go back and start looking at other stuffs to see if there's a more super photo, but there's always a constant fights and not spiral instead.
Like, damn. Well, the whole set is ruined. Like it's trash. I could've should've posted any of them. Yeah. That's always in the back of my head and that's always a voice that I have to fight. Um,
michael: how, okay. How much do you trust your taste and your creative choices and has that changed over time?
elmer: It's definitely changed.
It's uh, my trust in myself has improved a lot. Well, it's kinda, it's kinda add them flowed what time? Because I, in the beginning I was very. In the beginning. I was very, I was told you my merits. I talked with the teachers like, wow, you have a lot of natural talent. Like these are great. Uh, which is awesome to hear, but it very much inflated my ego at a young age.
And so basically I was very arrogant about it. Uh, and I'll, I'll fully admit that I was, uh, can we curse on here? Yeah, I was an asshole. Yeah. Um, and that's also another constant battle to not be an asshole because I'm someone who like, while being very blunt and honest, I'm also someone who gets their ego inflated and deflated very easily.
So, yeah. Uh, so there was a time where I had to. Uh, the ebbs and flows, like I said, because it was very, my confidence in myself was really high. And then I got knocked down several times when I started taking more courses and it was, so I started comparing myself to other people. And then I had to kind of rebuild myself into where I am now, where it's like, Hey, like I said, I was going to lecture said and I like it.
It's your art? Um, I think to me, I'm at the point now where if I do a Photoshop or model, uh, I'll use you as an example where we did well, last time we hung out, we did a mini photo shoot because I just liked doing that. I always have my camera on me and I wanted to post three photos of you and you disagreed with one of them.
And then you gave me suggested, Hey, how about beat that? So at that point, your opinion is only one that that's the a hundred percent matters because the art is yours and mine. Cause you're in the photo. So I'm at that point now where I'll listen to other people's opinions. But if all they told me is I don't like the photo and don't really give me a reason of why I'm going to post it
michael: anyway.
Interesting. Yeah, that's a great point. Um, Terran says a good question. I've learned to ask when someone asks me for input, is, are you looking for validation or feedback? I'm happy to do either because I care about you and your work, but I want to be helpful.
elmer: Yeah, because validation mostly comes from a place of logs, um, was like, I, I don't want to hurt your feelings.
I want to make you happy while feedback is through honesty. And I think, I guess, um, I used the issue was I used to look for more validation that. Oh, my God, that shit is great. Like this salsa, you're the best photographer in the world. Obviously not the case, but as I say here, um, and now more so I'm at the point where I'm looking for more feedback and I welcome it as long as you're not a Dick about it.
And you're not like, just trying to tear me down. If you have opinions on my work, I'll always welcome that because it makes me better grow from it. Right.
michael: And you know, that brings up a good point about asking for feedback. And I think I forget what episode it was, but we dove a little bit into feedback, uh, in detail, actually, not a little bit.
We dove in detail about feedback, but part of it is, is how you're asking for it, right. It's like, oh, like, should I use these three photos versus here's what I'm doing. What do you think versus like, do you like these three photos? Like all of those are so subtle, but like the answer to all of them. Would vary, greatly and affect you greatly because like how the, uh, facilitator, the person asking for the feedback is setting up the feedback.
If you're like, what do you think? And I'm like, it's cool. Like, I don't love it then it's like, well now you have nothing to go by. It's like, doesn't love it. I don't know what that means. I'm kind of hurt. I thought he did love it, but now he doesn't. But you know, like, is it me? Or if you were like of these three, like, what are your favorites?
Oh, this one. Oh, how come you know? And there's a dialogue and there's like this, uh, continuation. I feel like, and I've been in this many times or such you get feedback and it kind of, you lock up and you don't ask for more, um, You don't ask for more clarity or more detail or whatever. And then as a result, you're like, oh, it must be me, you know, be something internal, which is like probably the furthest thing from the truth.
Um, and then your point about validation, I love is like validation comes only from a place of love. And then you said feedback is more about like criticism and help, but at the same time you did say, well, it's in good faith. And it is out of love as well. You know, I think both come out of love. I think validation to me is highlighting strength.
Feedback is more about highlighting areas of improvement based on whatever criteria it is that you want to improve on. And so I think, um, I was thinking, as you were saying it, like if you only validated someone, I would love to run this test. If you've only ever validated someone, um, No feedback, just validation of like, I love like how you did this and that, and that like, would they actually get better over time?
Um, like faster than someone where you only gave feedback to, or if there was a blend?
elmer: I don't think so. Oh, well simply because I think as artists, we need that feedback to grow. Um, because like I said, not everything you do is gonna be perfect, right? Like your songs might be great, but there may be some, I can tell you them, the song is great and it made me feel something and maybe it made me it probably back to this place, all that cool stuff.
But if I don't give you the negatives in that, or like give you, like what I think could have been better in it that I don't think you would really grow back or it wouldn't motivate you to try new things. Because I think somebody. That constantly here is, this is great. This is great. Or this is bad. If it's bad, uh, you don't really know where to improve it that, or you don't know where to what avenues to change it.
michael: Yeah. That's, that's interesting. And the point I was getting at is like, what if you only highlighted positives and, and I'm not making a case for this, I'm just doing it. I feel experiment here, but I'm that person who said, oh, I love how you highlighted this and that. And then I took that and double down on that.
And then my work became more that more of the good and less of the bad. Now this is a total thought experiment, very interested to see what people are thinking in the threads, you know? Um, and I say this because I've been thinking about feedback a lot. Obviously I've been doing a ton of these episodes. I think with feedback we're often, like, let's find that negative thing or that thing that needs to be fixed or the thing that's not good.
And like, what if that's so minor compared to the amount you feel something from a piece of work, you know, like where like, oh yeah. Like, oh, there was like two notes off, like that's really minor. You should know, like, you know, maybe it was an off day or whatever, but it's like, oh, but I felt so much like, okay, cool.
And then like, that's what you want to lean into. Um, so it's also, I guess maybe what I'm saying is, is how the feedback has positioned, you know, that balance of, of validation and genuine validation and like a critique of things they could improve that.
elmer: Yeah. Well,
I would be very interested in seeing what people think of.
michael: Yeah. Um, but also not to say like only compliment people all the time. Like I get your point, like, you know, then they're there. They could be doing things that are, if it is taking away from the work then. Yeah. Like it's definitely worth a bigger conversation I guess, about it.
But I don't know. I'd love to hear what you think, because this is your interview. Not mine.
elmer: I don't know. Um,
like I said, I don't think personally, I don't think only receiving positive feedback would be it after a certain point. I don't think it would be happy that will be healthy. Um, because I feel like that will leave you stagnant in that. So like if someone told, okay, I think that this is initial that I had to come down.
I'm sorry. I'm going to start over. Is that people would always tell me your portraits are amazing. Even if they would've given me feedback or whatever they, for the most part, they'll be like, your portraits are amazing. I love Ikea with capture people. I love how you stuff like that rundown. And it got to the point where I started seeing myself only as a portrait photographer.
Um, because in my mind I thought, well, shit, I'm good at this, right. Let me, let me keep doing that. And it got, uh, it kind of tied me to that. Nice. Uh, what, what I still love doing portraits and head shots and all that. Um, I started posting all my stories since I started working in the city. Now again, uh, I started posting a picture every day of the city.
Thank you. Uh, I started posting those photos everyday on my stories, uh, the city Chronicles, um, and I started getting from people saying, wow, these are great. Why don't you do more of this? And I'm like, well, and then it's, it may not make sense, but it's like, I it's almost like I forgot the other avenues exists where I was like, well, shit, wait, I am, I am pretty good at taking landscapes or city full of cityscapes.
So I think that's where, why I say that only positive validation. Isn't a good thing. Cause I am, I guess I am living proof that it wouldn't and again, everyone's different, but I asked her, I only answered with myself, but. Got me stuck in that NISO 'cause it kinda, it kinda made me afraid to branch out to everything else.
michael: Yeah. Yeah. It gave you that's so interesting. It's like the negative of positive validation. It's like, dude, you're so good at this. You're like, shit, that's all I'm going to do. Whereas like, if I'm like, dude, you're terrible at this. You're like, I'm not going to do this or I'm going to try to get really good at it.
It's so funny. Both of them have dualistic properties. Like if we're too positive, it can make it bad or good. That's very interesting. Yeah. That's a very good point. Yeah. I mean, I even find like with my dad, like he'll never give like too deep of criticism about the workload. He's like, oh, that's so great.
But there's sometimes where he does, but I feel like more often it's very positive and like, I definitely see the downside there where it's like, I want to like know some nuance. Like I want to be pushed a little bit, uh, based on the critique, but I think it's also how it's set up, you know, it's like, oh, Hey, I'm really curious.
Like, what's your opinion on. The style or whatever at the same time feedback is very revealing to things you might not know. How has, how has feedback helped you as a photographer?
elmer: It's pushed me to try new things. Um, like I'll use what you said as an example where you took that photo and you developed it and you loved it.
You thought it was great. And then your professor said those for the four quarters and ever since then, it's pushed to you to, to literally brought it into your scope. So when it comes to feedback, it's definitely when somebody tells me, wow, this photo by, by the lake was so cool. This photo, this person was by the lake by lake was so cool.
Why don't you try it? Maybe you should try to do it in this. Or maybe you should get her to different polls. Maybe you should do it in a different location. Something like that, where it's it's made me think. Okay. Maybe I should look into studying more poses or maybe I should look into not taking so many photos in this one location because it kind of got to the point, like for me, a forest park, there's a park here in New York, beautiful park.
And it got so many people wanted me to shoot there with them. Um, they got to the point where people started leaving my friends. So what telling me like, oh, you shouldn't be going to forest park. Like, that's your spine? I'm like, damn like your right hand. So there was a, part-time where I completely stopped shooting there.
Right. Um, cause again, I got, I got comfortable in the validation. Like why are you putting your photos in the forest? So, let me not leave the forest.
michael: That's a metaphor in and of itself. Let me not leave the forest.
elmer: Yeah. So it's like, I don't like the feedback started wanting me, started pushing me to try to do new things, try new I'm new to photography.
Uh, those times where I was only shooting with one specific lens. Uh, and then I started shooting in front of the lens because they, all, my photos started looking the same. Um, so yeah, the feedback definitely pushed me. And I guess the positive, the positive, sorry, the creative feedback. Like I said, if you tell me your photos suck, but then I'm like, cool.
Why does it suck? And you can't and I don't know. I just don't like it. Okay. Well, I'm sorry,
michael: but I mean, let's say someone did say that. Would that still hurt you or would it happen?
elmer: Definitely would have been the past. Um, and right now I'm not going to lie to you and say, I would just brush it off. It would probably stay with me for a little bit, but after a while, I'll brush it off.
Um, I know it shouldn't hurts. They,
michael: what do you think the reason is that you don't, you wouldn't be as hurt now as you would have before?
elmer: Uh, I like to say, I like to think I've grown as a person. I used to be someone who was very shy, very reserved, very quiet, very much fear of rejection in every sense I would see. I would see, um, someone mildly interesting, not even just a pretty girl, like someone mildly interesting. And I would not be able to go up and talk to them, um, because just the horrible insecurities.
And through the years through my friendships and to then through people, I surrounded myself with I'll slowly start overcoming those things. And with that, somewhere in that I became better at taking feedback. Hmm. I thing, I think my reactions to negative feedback came from a very bad fear of rejection, uh, which not only did it stop me from doing pursuing things in photography or videography, but it has stopped me from doing many things.
That's held me back so much. So yeah.
michael: Big that's big, you mentioned people and I want to talk about like finding the right people for a creative person. What does that, what does that look like to you? What has that look like to you? Um, did you start out like always having creative friends or, um, definitely.
elmer: It's definitely not. Um, I had to, I had a friend group and I in high school that, to this day, I still love them. They're still my brothers. Uh, but I always felt like they didn't understand me, uh, because one of them was an athlete. The other one was a scholar. Uh, like literally like one of the top five people in the school.
Uh, one of the most, it was on the basketball team and stuff like that. So I was always, and this, the thing is that this back then where I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't discover photography then. Uh, well, even so I says, I didn't discover it, writing them. Um, so I always felt like something was missing and that wasn't until I reconnected with people like Jay and Shanita.
michael: Yeah.
elmer: Um, I reconnected with them and Shelley's being a writer and Jay being interested in photography as well. Uh, we, they, they kind of helped me. And again, acknowledge like this is something that you love, that's when you pursuing that, the encouragement to pursue it. And then with time we added, like, I added people to my little friend group where it was like, like Jennifer, like Kim JC, uh, you will either make me meeting you has changed my life, honestly.
Uh, and honestly meeting all of them who has so, and all of you have helped me in many ways to become who I am now. Um, so definitely, yeah, like I said, like I w I was always haunted by it by art. Um, so the right people, I guess sensory question is people that encourage you to try new shit. They, even if it sucks, like you would try it, you'll tell them about it.
They'll rip it apart of the Haftar is to make you better. Um, but like the people who love you for you and people who love you for the people that they think you could become.
michael: Wow, that's beautiful. And I mean, I think that sums up finding the right people there, the encouragement people that are acknowledging and validating and are on your team, really like people that see where you want to be, or maybe even not where you want to be, but where you could be and validating that.
I think, you know, I've seen that with, with you and Jay and Shenice and JC and Jen, I mean, the list goes on and on and on. The group in New York is one of the reasons why I'm so excited to be in New York now, and to be here for the top, for the next while and until something else. Um, and, um, I should announce that I'm moving into Brooklyn.
I'm subletting there, uh, for several months. I don't know how long actually, so I'll be around. I'll be in Williamsburg. Um, but yeah, I mean, you guys are one of the reasons for that, the same way you said that I changed your life. I mean, you guys have absolutely changed mine as well. Seeing how you interact with each other, you specifically, and everyone as a group, you know, like that dynamic has been so inspiring and so encouraging and still loving, uh, not without conflict and bullshit and whatever.
Like that's every friend group, but being that has been, um, been great. And I think in terms of finding the right creative. Um, would you say those are the things like to look for, for people that are looking for that group, that outlet, like the acknowledgement, the validation, the encouragement. Is there anything else?
elmer: I wouldn't say you lead people that have similar though SU um, people, I guess the reason why I say that is because there are people, there are people in the friend group that aren't, none of them are photographers except for Jay and Kim who dabbles in it. But there are people who are, although they're not a part of that world, they're.
To help you however they can to become, to elevate in that world. Like I could hit any of them up, including you. I've got here anyone up and say, Hey, I have an idea for a photo. I look at a release to you with it. And without hesitation, they'll say, yeah, let's do it. Um, so though they, although they don't take photos themselves, they understand that it's something that I love and they're willing to put their stuff aside to help me grow.
And the same thing with that, I will drop everything to help them in any way. So, so I think that's something that you did that that's one of the most important things in any friend group, not just for artists, but that's people that are just see what you see, what you want to become and are willing to help you get there.
michael: Say less. That was beautiful. Um, I saw a little hearts in the corner. I don't know if you could see the comments, but. Um, well, let's talk about a topic I've been thinking about that you didn't select from this list, but I selected, which is the idea of discovering your true self. The artist is on this quest to find themselves and be, you know, what is that process been like for you?
And what do you feel like has been in the way of that or in support of that
elmer: in the way of that? My own securities and my own thoughts of what I think a photographer should be. Uh, I'm someone who gets very bad tunnel vision, where I'm very impatient. So if I, if I want to create, um, I've had to do a photo shoot, I tend to only think of the edit process and the end product and I had to get there.
So I get hit with that process. It becomes overwhelming. Yeah, but yeah. Um, I've had to break myself down and rebuild myself a few times throughout my lives. Uh, I think that's
michael: shared
elmer: and yeah, no, and I think that's, I think that's the beauty of life constant changing, and it's not sitting there, uh, evolution, uh, because you, where we don't stay, I don't think you stay the same person that you are when you're a little experience has changed.
You. Uh, like I said, I was someone who was very shy, reserved, and wouldn't talk to anybody really. And then that started changing as I started getting older, I started having more experiences, realistic being forced into experiences. Um, so yeah, no, I like, I, I started photography as a whole. But my, when my parents retired and left to back to Columbia, they, that was now what does it board, but I was just, I needed something and my dad always had cameras around.
So I just said, fuck it. And I started, I picked up a cab by myself, a camera started doing that little by little and all my friends, and so said, Hey, what do you listen to do then? That's where it grew. And then, so I went from a shy kid who, who didn't mean to do anything who didn't want to do anything to going into a field where you need to talk to people.
michael: Right, right, right.
elmer: Which I get, I didn't realize that was thing because I got tunnel vision. I just thought, oh, I'm going to do this one photographer and just be great. But I'm thinking, wait, you have to overcome some insecurity.
michael: I that resonates so deeply to my last two years of my life. Um, I was like, yeah, I'm just going to be a business owner.
Like I'm just going to run a design agency, most tunnel vision ever. And man was, I hit with like so much, so much insecurity, doubt, uh, questions, problems, amazing experiences aside like the amount of other shit that I didn't see, like the, the stuff that I was tunnel visioning out of my vision, uh, it all pops up.
And at the same time, it's, it's almost like a pro of the tunnel vision is like, you're looking at the goal and you're like, that's where I want to be. And then things come up, uh, as a result of sort of being tunnel vision, but, uh, things that you have to address, you know, things that you have to, to, uh, to deal with.
Yeah. I mean, that, that hits me, that it hits home. For sure. When you're thinking about discovering yourself, your true self as an artist, um, yeah. Like w what would you say has encouraged that on the journey? What does it actually, what does it mean to you? Like, what does being your true self mean? As it relates to the work, the creative work,
elmer: I guess, being your true self is being honest about what you are, but what your limitations are, what the limitations are, where you're, when it gets to site and go about, uh, yeah, I know it's, it's about being honest about, you're honest with yourself of, and do ya know, like I said, the people around me have really helped them help me with that.
michael: Cool. Great. Um, so, uh, this time around, I did something different where I sent you the topics, usually I don't. And I said, you choose all you, you to choose, want to see how that goes. Just experimenting with different forms here. Um, so you selected a few there's, um, five we haven't covered. Um, and there's another question I have to append at the end, but I want to see where you want to take this.
So you chose personal roadblocks motivations, falling out of love with the work fear slash comparisons and practice. Is there anything, oh, what's the first one you want to dive into?
elmer: Great. Uh, I think with any artists, actually any crops, it is good to constantly do the craft and look out. Uh, look for other people that are doing the crafts at a higher level that you are, um, where I like I have, I thought a bunch of photographers who there are different levels, high degrees higher than I am in terms of success, uh,
michael: and your best buy, sorry.
And you're measuring success by what
elmer: two things, um, financial success and I guess emotional success, two very different things that, that could easily be tied together for some people, uh, where there are some people who are achieving a financial success that, that I aspire to be, that I aspire to. And then there are certain people that I follow that are.
Like living their happiest times right now, doing what they love and succeeding at that. And that's also what I want. I want to be happy. I want to be able to be happy, uh, financially and emotionally. So I constantly have to practice at the craft. And it's like a, as like an athlete, uh, if you, if you're a runner and you stop running for a week and then you have a race at the end of the week, it's gonna affect you because you're not you kind of, your body cooled off to that.
Similar to any athlete has same thing. Like if you haven't been on stage for a year and then you go on stage again, well, yes, you're gonna, you're gonna go on and kill it, but it's still gonna be like, oh shit. I'm out of practice. Yeah. Um, asked her during COVID. I did not pick up my camera. Well, we're still in COVID, but like when, when corn scene was at his worst and everybody would be like, you couldn't leave your house or whatnot.
Uh, I was looking at, I'll still be able to work, but I did not pick up my camera for about six months. Oh, wow. I did an edit. I didn't do anything. Um, like I think like everybody, I kinda got into a funk where I was like, what's the point of doing this? I just need, I just need to get through the day. Um, if anything, there's just started writing more during that time.
That's exciting. Uh, but when it comes to photography, I didn't pick up my camera for like six months. And when I, I started doing it again, when we got a dog, we got a new dog during COVID. He got adopted, we rescued a dog. Uh, and I said, oh, once he preaches. And I started taking pictures of him and I kind of felt myself.
Because when it comes to photography, I'm someone who likes to work on manual mode. Basically I do all the work. I don't know if the cameras do anything for me. Yeah. And there was a time before COVID where I kind of had it down, packed. It was a rhythm for me, all the settings and whatnot. And then I started taking pictures of his dog and I'm like, let's talk about the way blacks kind of lost that rhythm, that muscle memory.
So I think that sort of practice of work because you, you have to get better. You have to keep that memory. I'm also very,
michael: what are you doing for your practice? Like this practice very regimented loose somewhere in between. Like, are you setting up kind of challenges for yourself? Like how do you think about practice?
Um,
elmer: I tend to think I'm actually right now in the process of thinking every year I do a type of Halloween shoot or shoots in general, uh, when I start posting them for the month of October, Um, so right now with the process of looking for that, they look thinking of ideas. So in that vein, I'm constantly thinking of ideas.
If I see something cool that I, that like that effect that Instagram for our photographer through something really cool. I'll say I want to try that and I'll just go out and try it. Yeah. Just keep practicing at it. Even though it's not a thing I'm going to a school that I'm probably going to use. I still want to practice it and get better at it just so I know how to do it.
michael: Right. So kind of I'm borrowing from other artists as inspiration. Like here's something they did. Like how can I do my own take on it? That's great. Yeah. It reminds me of when I first started designing like every day after work or starting my first job where I was like officially designing. I would after work, just copy websites all the time.
Like how did they make that? And at the time it was like, when buttons were like 3d and whatever, I was like, how did they get this exactly to look 3d and like different gradients and shadows and yeah, I mean, it was so helpful, you know, a lot of people, uh, might've been a version to the idea of copying or stealing, but I think, you know, stealing being like presenting it as your own work versus copying as a practice, I think is, is so beneficial.
elmer: I guess, think a little bit as a musician putting out a cover song, right? Yeah. You're, you're taking elements from this original song, but putting your own spin on it. Right. And then eventually that may lead you into a whole new project that was inspired by it, but completely girl.
michael: Yeah. That's so interesting.
I find myself, uh, covering songs in between record. It's like bridges the gap for me to like, where I'm going next. What am I listening to? Yeah, that's great metaphor, really great metaphor. I'm curious about motivations. You selected that as a topic, and I'm wondering why
elmer: it's always good to know what drives you. Uh, I guess that keeps that not only QC that away each crowded, but it also elevates you if that makes sense, because you are, you're working for and towards something, um, motivated towards having I'm motivated to is having, uh, my photography in the gallery. So that pushes me to look into galleries, look into photographers who have had their stuff in galleries, and it gives me a goal.
Um, Well also motivations co uh, been a negative where it's like, I see this photographer did this horrible thing, or this art is this horrible thing. I don't want to do that. I refuse to become that. And that's also a motivation. And in the same direction, it's
michael: helping you align on like your values by seeing.
Yeah. I love that. Motivation is it is knowing what guides you and give it, manifests the goal for you by knowing, guiding you. Um, well, I hope to see you in a gallery at some point, but at this point you've been working hard enough. Um, any other thoughts on motivations?
elmer: Well, I'll tell you something that, um, I, my closest friends know that I saw, I guess the 10 of the whole road now.
Um, I do this thing where it's gonna walk past an empty building. Or like an empty office space or something like that. And I'll stop and look at it. And I'm like, that's my future gallery. And I just tell you, sit there and look at the window and just build that gallery in this empty space. Amazing. So I guess that that's a custom motivation for me.
michael: Yeah. To really visualize it and think about it often. Is that the next, uh, next goal on the horizon for you?
elmer: No, no, uh, not, not the next one. I think that that's a more of a, when it happens, it happens right now. The goal is to keep advancing in my craft of photography, but also in video video, because I I've realized that I'm pretty, I've gotten pretty decent at telling a story.
What about photography? That I want to see what I could do a video. Yeah, I'm curious. So it's not more, it's more a project for me, um, than it is for like financial gain or anything. Um, and then hopefully, eventually, if people like what I produce and what I, then it could be a financial thing, but right now that's, that's mine.
That's
michael: my new, how the, yeah. I'm excited to see what your photos are when they start moving. You know, like when the frames start moving very quickly,
elmer: I think something that I want to do, that's been motivating me lately is I I'm surrounded by poets and I want to be able to sit down with poets and create video visuals for their poetry.
Yeah. It's like what I tell them. It's it's music videos for poetry.
michael: I think it's genius. Yeah. That's a great.
elmer: And by all means, they, I know I'm not the first person to there's countless people. I'm making visuals for the poems, but I have has gotten to the point where certain people could have looked at photos and they'll know that I took them because of its style and its editing style and whatnot.
I want to do that for video. That would have basically, I want to put my stamp on that, on the poetry world, basically. And then eventually I mentioned working with musicians and then make short films. I'm actually working on a short film right now with a good friend of mine, Christine, uh, who's a publisher.
Uh, I'm making a short film for her poetry for our phone. Uh, so yeah, a little bit. That's the goal. We'll work on visuals, pull out four videos and keep going with photography. And then eventually don't know sky's a little bit
michael: to the moon as this. Um, well, you have about three minutes. I know that you had to leave on time.
Uh,
elmer: push it a little longer.
michael: Okay, cool. Cool. We'll push it until you're about to get fired and then I'll let you go then. Um, man, my favorite topic is to always ask about personal roadblocks. I do feel like we covered a lot of this, um, but we'd love to hear anything else that you haven't covered or more detail.
elmer: I hate when I get so excited for our project and been planning this project and the one I'm in at the end school, when, when I'm close to doing it, it falls through whether it be because of me or just other circumstances. It doesn't work out because once that happens to me, I guess soul demoralized, uh, to the point where it's like, what's the point?
I don't want to do this anymore like that, because I mean that specific project. So I think that's a big roadblock for me or it's, I guess it's a double-edged sword of, I get too emotionally invested in my projects. And like I said, double-edged short, I could be a good thing and a bad thing. Um, but yeah, I got so like impatient and so excited for something that it's like, again, it causes that tunnel vision.
So I would say as my biggest roadblock, and then besides that, it's the insecurity of where it's like, I wanna, I want to work with new people, but I, I can't get the courage to message people and be like, Hey, do you want to work with me? Um, at rejected. Yeah, it's not, yeah. It's projection and that, and there's also like the fear of putting myself out there, uh, which I guess could stem from rejection.
Um, but my friend shack, uh, shaking the world, uh, he challenged me to for the month, every month, this year. So it hit up somebody new and say, Hey, let's do a photo shoot. Let's do a photo shoot. Let's make this happen. And for the most part I've been doing it
michael: one time, one time a month.
elmer: Yeah.
michael: I love that.
That's a great,
elmer: yeah. And then also not only does that push me to reach out to new people and make new basically, uh, make new friends because during a photo shoot, if I don't know you, I'm going to use that Photoshop as a chance to get to know you. Yeah. Um,
michael: what are the photos? And it'll be uncomfortable.
elmer: Uh, but yeah, so it's definitely helped me with that. It's taught me, I think a goal of mine, uh, is, I don't know if you see those videos on Tik TOK or our Instagram, where the strangers go to a really interesting looking person and say, Hey, I really love your style. Can I take your photo? And then do like a whole mini photo shoot right there.
That's a complete stranger. I think that's the eventual goal. And in terms of going up, talking to strangers, oh right now you can think about that gives me anxiety. Cause it's I work in a city and I'm walking to, I have to walk through a Harold square to catch the work. And I see the most interesting people, but I can't get the courage.
I can't even imagine getting the courage to going up to their building, being like, I love your style. I love your look. Can I take your photo?
michael: Oh, look who just joined.
elmer: Yeah.
michael: Um, no, I, that resonates for sure. I mean, I would be in the same position and at the same time, it's like having a camera gives you this opportunity, this lens to the world for, you know, uh, no pun intended really, but like, it gives you that lens that I think people would love to, you know, have to see what you're seeing, you know what I mean?
Um, and you know, as long as you shared with them and whatever, you know, if they ask not to post it, you know, like, you know, of course their wishes, like I think, I think it would be such a great gift that you could, could give to people
elmer: emotionally. That's
michael: the goal. Yeah. Well, I hope to see it one day. I know one day it'll pop up on Instagram and I'll say, all right.
All right. You hear at first, everyone, um, we've got three more, so falling out of love with the word.
Um, and it goes that one. How have you in the past?
elmer: Um, I think, I don't know if that makes sense, but I think I'm more, I fell out of love with myself as a photographer. Uh, the craft style was loved and I always would love, but it was more, I got to a point where I was, uh, I thought like I wasn't growing. Um, I felt like I wasn't growing. Um, hold on
a
second.
michael: This is our first day.
So anyway, that was your boss. Yeah.
elmer: So we got talking about it.
michael: Um, and I'll ask one more question after this.
elmer: Yeah. So I, I got, I got to a point where I was, I, I thought I was at a really growing as an artist, so it got to one more guy. Once I got to the point of what's the point, uh, why am I doing this? And I had to really sit with myself and reevaluate what I wanted to be as an artist.
And basically, I guess, like in a relationship when you guys have issues, you have to sit down and work through those issues, the same thing, just the first off.
michael: Yes. And what did you find? So in that period of time, you said you fell out of love with yourself as a photographer. Like for the photographer.
Don't love that dude anymore because he doesn't have a goal because he's stagnating. Is that what you were kind of saying?
elmer: I, I feel like I start, I didn't, I started doing photography, not for me. I started doing it to please others. Yeah. Um, And a God sort of point where I took a photo shoot with somebody who I did not get a wrong list.
And the only reason I did is because I needed the money. Uh, and then after the Photoshop was done, I literally sat in the Uber and prickly cried because I hated who I became. And it's funny because at that time you posted something on Instagram about baby. Oh yeah. Uh, he posted something that is going to bother me, basically.
How about how much would admire me as an artist and as a person. And that kind of like took me back that kind of brought me back from.
michael: Because those were early, excuse that you took that photo talking about trying to find it,
elmer: but it was to the point where like, I know that photo shoot, I never posted.
That was one of the first, that was one of the only photos that I've, I've never posted the one a day. No, no, no, no. The, one of the person that I shot
definitely posted because I would look at those photos and I hated those photos. I deleted those photos off. My hard drives.
I hated with those photos represents it. So, and then after that, I had to work on myself and I started basically falling in love with Homer, the photographer I got. And I think it made me a lot better.
michael: Which would you say part of that was saying, what, what, what, what led to that to you? Loving Elmer, the photographer again,
elmer: I started.
Doing photography, not for clients. I started, I basically went back to basics. I, I started doing things for fun. I started talking like, because back in the beginning I would hit up Jay. Um, and, and he would show me some like, Hey, let's go take photos. Let's go to the park and take photos. Let's like, not for a client, just for fun.
And probably doing that again to the point where it became fun. Again, it stopped being a chore and it just became something that drove me creatively.
michael: Okay. Last question. Cause I know you have to go. Yeah. If you were to write a book on creativity, what would you include in it?
elmer: Um, there has to be a section on self. Um, 'cause I think so much creativity is, is driven by self worth. Whereas if you, if you don't like or love for the person, you are, uh, it kinda leaves you stagnant because you, you don't, you can't really find motivation to do things for others. So if you can't do things for yourself, you can put things for others.
Uh, and so I think that needs to be a chapter and basically taking time for yourself for taking the time to reevaluate why you're doing the things you're doing and making sure it still aligns with you when your goals, that what you want to become. And if it doesn't and that's when you need to stop and reevaluate
michael: anything else.
elmer: Well,
michael: That's good, man. Wow. Okay. Well, this was a very short interview compared to some where we've gone two and a half hours, but in that I felt like we got so much because you were so open and vulnerable and honest about your experience as a creative. And so I really appreciate you being super honest and vulnerable.
elmer: It was great.
michael: Yeah. The, uh, I'm super excited to hang soon. Um, but yeah, I was, I was very excited to get on the air with you and talk it out. So, um, have a good day at work. Thank you so much for joining again. Um, and to everyone that commented and hearted and whatever shared this or anything, thank you for that.
I appreciate you all. And um, if you can jump off, I'm going to read the posts that I wrote about you, including. Oh,
elmer: let it, you know, when, uh, when you posted that post, I was in the Uber crying my eyes out because I hated who I became. And then I read your post and I started crying of happiness. That's wild.
And that the reasons why I say you changed my life.
michael: Damn bro. Okay. Well then I have to close with this dude. Thank you, man. I love you so much. I love you, but I know that that happened. Um, so I'll show you the photo. So the photo right here is me. Um, about a week before I moved to Los Angeles, it might've been a few days actually.
And it's in Ridgewood, Queens, right outside Julius, which is one of my favorite places. And I posted it. I believe it was on Elmer's birthday. And I was just looking at this shot and thinking about Brooklyn and Queens and, oh, I was actually spending the weekend in Brooklyn. So I wrote this, I'll read it to you.
It's titled persistence. I'm spending the weekend in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and I wanted to post a photo taken near there last year. This was shot by the wonderful Elmer Quintero. Over the past two years, I've watched him grow as a photographer from concepts to compositions, to editing. He has really begun to master his craft, his growth and the growth of many of my friends has played a huge part in helping me commit to my own goal.
Building marketing agency. I've seen through them that this growth doesn't appear out of thin air and you aren't born with it. Their growth is that the direct result of their persistence through improving their craft, saying yes and no to the right things, exploring your ideas, learning over the years, I've made it a point to keep close friends who better themselves every day.
I hope to be an example to them as they are. So that's it. Thanks for joining. Thank you, Elmer for inspiring me for inspiring everyone on this call and I appreciate you all keep creating. Have a great week. I'll see you next Wednesday and that's all for now. Bye.
And, uh, it was at that event, uh, still running and we'll be in the future, but, uh, it really changed my life and, and got me to play music and perform again, uh, after a really long while. So, um, I owe a lot to that events and to Shenice who I'll be interviewing next week. I believe. Let me check that yeah, next week and, uh, to Elmer and to everyone that, and Jay.
Everyone that's part of the event that goes to the event, the poets, the artists that attend. Um, so I've been following Elmer for awhile. All, all of that backstory to say I've been following Elmer's work for awhile. He's a photographer. He is a videographer. I'm a poet though. I don't know if he would allow me to say as a poet, but I do think he is, and he's a great writer, um, and an all around great person and one of them, uh, to bring him on the show because he's not someone that's pursuing a photography, full-time, uh, it's something that he's really passionate about.
It's something that he continues to learn and grow. Um, every day week that I see him post something new and I thought that's a good take on it because, um, I think a big part of this creative thing is that you don't have. Only do that. You know, you can make money in one way and then use that money to maybe make creative work or whatever.
Right. Um, there's not one kind of way of living a creative life. So, um, yeah, so super excited to interview him today, to talk to him about his process and about, uh, his motivations and personal roadblocks and things that have inspired him and, um, everything in between. So I'm going to take a sip of coffee.
I'm going to invite a bunch of people, um, to the chat. I see a bunch of people who are already joining, which is awesome. Hi to everyone. Um, we're almost done with this interview series, uh, which is kind of upsetting to me. There's only a three, four interviews left, which is crazy. It's been insane. We've done almost 27 interviews so far.
We're going to keep doing stuff. We're going to move it to the Exploring Creativity page. So follow that if you haven't yet. Um, Very excited for the last few interviews and excited to start writing this book. So, um, yeah, like I said, I'm going to invite people and sip coffee at the same time
and I'm not a good multitasker, so I'm surprised at, and just spill that on myself, but we're good. Let's see here. And, uh, I don't know if you're able to, if anyone's viewing, but feel free to invite anyone you think might be interested in this discussion, um, invite them here or feel free to share, um, this live to your story after we post it or any previous lives, um, really would love to kind of spread what we're doing.
Um, thank you, Terence. Appreciate it. And Eduardo, Hey. Um, yeah, spread it. Um, the more people that know the better, you know, I want people to start to demystify creativity a little bit and keep the beauty and magic of creativity as well. That's the purpose of this book? Um, it's kind of the purpose of my life in general, um, teaching and trying to demystify the design process and, um, make it accessible to anyone.
And I think it's very similar with creativity. It's a really fun thing and enjoyable thing to get into, to create something. But a lot of people, um, have some confusion around it, resistance around it, or just uncertainty during the process, which prevents them from creating more things or stops them from moving, um, before they start.
So yeah, share it like subscribe, you know, whatever they sound to YouTube, do all that. Um, and I appreciate everyone that's been watching this whole time. If you've seen all 20. Uh, three so far really, really appreciate you. If you've only seen a few, I still really appreciate you. So, um, yeah, let's get this interview started.
I'm going to invite Elmer and we can get this rolling. And, uh, also anyone that I've spammed throughout the process. Um, so man, I just want to say one more thing, which is anyone that I spammed during the process of this, of the interview series. There's been many people whose DMS just have like, please join this live.
That's like the only DM we have. So, um, apologies to them. Uh, well, Hey, hi. Good to see you going well, how about yourself?
elmer: I'm good. I'm here. I worked, actually.
michael: I like it. I like the, um, the post-it or the, um, what is it? A cork board? What does it, is that the right word for it? Yeah.
elmer: I love it. It's actually kind of cool.
My boss gave me the, gave me his office in order to do this sense of you. No way.
michael: Okay. That's cool. At least I was worried. I'm like, you're doing this during work. Are they going to get mad? But this is, that's a real
elmer: one right there. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped in into the comments honestly.
michael: Oh, awesome. Okay, great. Well, I said, you know, find a good background. I think, um, there's nothing more creative than a board where things are stuck too. I always love seeing them and like cafes and, and uh, even supermarkets. They have, I always look at it every time I walked by, you know what I'm talking about?
Like those boards,
elmer: all the memos and whatnot,
michael: like to see who's like teaching design or teaching guitar or something like that.
elmer: Um, he actually, you find yourself judging. You're judging things by the creative things.
michael: I evaluate it. I don't judge the person, but I will evaluate the design quickly at this point.
It's so instinctual where like, I see it, my brain is already like first trying to understand it. So I, I break it down probably like if I look at an interface like, um, and someone's having a problem with it, I'll break it down based on how I would have created it and how I assume that person did. Um, and I'll notice flaws where like, oh, they forgot this step, but like, it's so hard to judge, um, especially interface design because a lot of it's software driven and, um, the code that, uh, is being written sometimes just isn't written for certain things.
So it's hard to judge that and for graphic design, you know, I see certain things and I say, that's not what they're trying to do. They're just trying to teach a math class or something, or they're trying to be a math tutor. And, and I, you know, as long as it's there as I'm looking at it, so, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm ignoring it.
It's effective in that way, but yeah, I think early on it was, I felt more of, um, a competition with like other design that existed. Uh, whereas now I see it as like, it's just one linear body of design and some of it is like things that I like and other parts of it are things that I don't really like, uh, or like don't like grab me right away.
Um, all of that other stuff, like someone might be grabbed by that, or someone might not think anything of the stuff I like. So, um, it's this spectrum of different things that have been made? Um, yeah,
elmer: I think, um, my mind says seminar when like one of my friends sends me a photo, like, Hey, this is a really cool photo.
Or my sister would be like, Hey, how did they do this or something? I'll look at it. And I'll use, try to break it down. Like you said, like try and break the process of how to, how to create that specific. And there are times where I'm like, I don't know, like that's really cool. I don't know how to do it. And then it would actually push me to want to figure out how they did
michael: it.
Oh yeah. I love those moments where it's like, damn there's times where I'm like, man, I don't know how to do that. Like damn. I was like, yeah. Is it, is it motivating for you when you see stuff like that?
elmer: It is now, um, it used to be, and I kind of went through changes of where it started at first. It was intimidating where it'd be, where I would see a photo that somebody took and I'm like, damn, I could never take something like that.
And then it would kind of lead me down a rabbit hole of why am I doing this? What's the point where we're going to be that good, but now it's, it's more of a drive to, like I said, break it down. And it inspires me to want to learn new things. Because obviously as an artist, there are things that there's always going to be something that you don't know.
And you're medium that you're not going to, you're never gonna know how to do 100% of the styles that are in each medium, including, especially photography.
michael: Right, right. Because there's like so many different forms of it, you know, digital and physical, there's all this lighting, you have different models and all, I mean, yeah.
The, the variables, there are vast
elmer: th I mean, the cool thing is that, like, you can have every variable be the same and have at least three photographers in the rule and take a photo of the same subject. And those three photos all look.
michael: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I love, you know, that's, that's an interesting part of what I was saying earlier about this kind of vast spectrum of design.
It's like everyone's approaching it from a different context and like, they're trying to say a different thing and do a different thing. So like you taking a photo of, um, someone's sister, because you have a sister versus someone who only has brothers, it would just be a different perspective right away.
Um, so like, you know, I love that and that's why it's so hard to judge from like, just a general, like, this is bad on just like writing off someone's work in that way.
elmer: So especially if those artists will subject.
michael: Yeah, definitely. Um, and that's what this whole series has been about. I mean, it's like, it's so subjective and I'm trying to find all of the things that are subjective in creativity and sort of starting to get a sense.
The N the balance of each one of those things, like, you know, feedback is subjective, but like what, what part isn't, you know, trying to find that, to give some grounding to this whole creative process.
elmer: I used to, I used to be terrified of feedback. Uh, I guess it's a, it's the same thing as the moralizing of when I used to find, look at something that was better than my stuff or something that I wouldn't be able to go, uh, back then it would be, I would show a photo to select people like Jay and Shenice or whatnot.
There was a friends of mine, um, and I'd be like, Hey, what do you think of this photo? And then Steeler, Jake would be like, it's cool, but I don't like this specific thing. And it would instantly, even though I love the photo instantly to my mood, and that's not because of him, that's more of my insecurity.
I'm like, damn, if this, like, if people don't like it, what's the point are we doing here? And I, I kind kinda lost the thread, a bit of art for me that making it from my house,
michael: uh, big topic, big, big topic. Um, and we have some big topics I definitely want to cover. I think that's, it can happen so quick. And before you even noticed it, it's like you, you get into it because photography is fun or design is fun and it's, you know, there was nothing in front of you now there's something and it's amazing and it's generative and it's creative and then it becomes judged.
And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, they said this. They didn't like the fact that, like, there was a, uh, a tree kind of hanging in off frame. Like they said to edit that part out. And now all of a sudden you're like the worst photographer ever.
Definitely. I remember, you know, going to design school, we took, uh, three photography courses. And, um, I remember, uh, taking this photograph on a rainy day and I was like, this is the best thing I've ever taken. Like, this is so good. It was under like the overpass in our school and it was raining. And I was like, I captured, it was like black and white camera and it was so hard to even take a photo.
Finally, got it all dialed in. I'm like, I am the fucking best at this. This is great developed it. Somehow it came out, which is developing film is a whole different thing. Came out good, like burned and Dodds or whatever. And I showed him my professor and he's like, yeah, like, look at all the corners. I'm like, okay.
He's like, there's something in each corner that like, didn't really need to be there. Like you could have cropped it out. You could have like, kind of burned that out or Dodge that, and I was like, damn, I never even looked at the corners. Like I was so focused on the center that the corners became. The, you know, there were like little tree things.
Someone's one foot was in there and it was like, it wasn't intentionally there. So, you know, that kind of feedback back then was definitely, really, uh, formative for me because, you know, here, I thought I was doing great and then bam, okay. Now every photo there is not a corner. I never look at like every single time just said feedback is necessary for growth, but it doesn't mean we change everything just to fit their one perspective, take it with a grain of salt.
elmer: I definitely agree with that because like I said, artists, detectives, so that could be someone that could be something that someone absolutely hates. Uh, but the whole world loves it. Uh, an example would be not one of mine, but, uh, the violinist Lindsey, Lindsey Sterling, she went on, America's got talent and there was one of the judges there.
Hated her completely, completely cracked on her, her talent and said, but literally said there is no place in the world for a dump stuff violinist. And now years later, she's traveling the world tour all over the world and loved by millions of people. And it was like, if that, if that would've, she would've led that one Pierce Morgan, that was his name.
Um, if she would've let Pearson Morgan's opinion of her, like dictate her life, she wouldn't be doing the music she's doing that.
michael: Right. Yeah. And I just posted something right before this live. Uh, someone had posted it on their story and I posted it on mine. And it said, may you never be the reason why someone who loves to sing doesn't anymore or why someone dressed so differently now we're standard clothes.
Or why someone who always spoke of their dream. So wildly is now silent about them. May you never be the reason of someone giving up on a part of them because you were demotivating not appreciative or even worse, sarcastic about it. And that hit me, you know, I think that it's so easy to, to knock a creative, especially early on, um, for the work that they're opening, because it's probably not that great, you know, like it or not by great.
I mean, like, it might be very naive. It might, there might have very clear flaws to it that like, based on what they're trying to achieve, they might think it's, like I said, that photo I thought was great, but then I didn't actually want things in the corners. I didn't even know. I could think about it. Um, but if that teacher delivered that in a bad way, I may have never taken a photo again, you know, and it's it early on is where you can become very fragile.
And then even through your career, you know, it, your, your work and how you feel about it can become very attached emotionally, and it can knock you, uh, knock you off the track of creating. Have you, have you felt that any bit?
elmer: That's how the, um, multiple times, but I think that came down to my own securities where somebody could have been trying to give me constructive criticism in a nice way. When as soon as I heard that one negative thought my mind stopped and listening to them, it just spiraled into negativity. Uh, so I think that's, that's an issue that I've always had.
Uh, and I think that's of that was that's been men still is my biggest challenge.
michael: Yeah. I mean, let's dive into that then. Um, what about it, what about the feedback when someone's about to give you feedback? Like if you, what are the settings in which you're giving you're soliciting feedback from people?
elmer: Um, so right now I'm in the, I'm at the point where I'm trying to actively post a photo once a day.
Um, and I do him and I choose them in sets of three, uh, the other, the same person instead of three, or it's the same theme and three photos before I post a photo I'll order. There's a set number of people that I go to. And I some, three to three photos that I'm saying, Hey, what do you think? And like, four of them could be like, these, these are.
Um, go ahead. Like those are awesome. Go ahead. And then that one person would be like, these are great, but I don't really like that middle one. And at that point I could easily say cool. And then go back and start looking at other stuffs to see if there's a more super photo, but there's always a constant fights and not spiral instead.
Like, damn. Well, the whole set is ruined. Like it's trash. I could've should've posted any of them. Yeah. That's always in the back of my head and that's always a voice that I have to fight. Um,
michael: how, okay. How much do you trust your taste and your creative choices and has that changed over time?
elmer: It's definitely changed.
It's uh, my trust in myself has improved a lot. Well, it's kinda, it's kinda add them flowed what time? Because I, in the beginning I was very. In the beginning. I was very, I was told you my merits. I talked with the teachers like, wow, you have a lot of natural talent. Like these are great. Uh, which is awesome to hear, but it very much inflated my ego at a young age.
And so basically I was very arrogant about it. Uh, and I'll, I'll fully admit that I was, uh, can we curse on here? Yeah, I was an asshole. Yeah. Um, and that's also another constant battle to not be an asshole because I'm someone who like, while being very blunt and honest, I'm also someone who gets their ego inflated and deflated very easily.
So, yeah. Uh, so there was a time where I had to. Uh, the ebbs and flows, like I said, because it was very, my confidence in myself was really high. And then I got knocked down several times when I started taking more courses and it was, so I started comparing myself to other people. And then I had to kind of rebuild myself into where I am now, where it's like, Hey, like I said, I was going to lecture said and I like it.
It's your art? Um, I think to me, I'm at the point now where if I do a Photoshop or model, uh, I'll use you as an example where we did well, last time we hung out, we did a mini photo shoot because I just liked doing that. I always have my camera on me and I wanted to post three photos of you and you disagreed with one of them.
And then you gave me suggested, Hey, how about beat that? So at that point, your opinion is only one that that's the a hundred percent matters because the art is yours and mine. Cause you're in the photo. So I'm at that point now where I'll listen to other people's opinions. But if all they told me is I don't like the photo and don't really give me a reason of why I'm going to post it
michael: anyway.
Interesting. Yeah, that's a great point. Um, Terran says a good question. I've learned to ask when someone asks me for input, is, are you looking for validation or feedback? I'm happy to do either because I care about you and your work, but I want to be helpful.
elmer: Yeah, because validation mostly comes from a place of logs, um, was like, I, I don't want to hurt your feelings.
I want to make you happy while feedback is through honesty. And I think, I guess, um, I used the issue was I used to look for more validation that. Oh, my God, that shit is great. Like this salsa, you're the best photographer in the world. Obviously not the case, but as I say here, um, and now more so I'm at the point where I'm looking for more feedback and I welcome it as long as you're not a Dick about it.
And you're not like, just trying to tear me down. If you have opinions on my work, I'll always welcome that because it makes me better grow from it. Right.
michael: And you know, that brings up a good point about asking for feedback. And I think I forget what episode it was, but we dove a little bit into feedback, uh, in detail, actually, not a little bit.
We dove in detail about feedback, but part of it is, is how you're asking for it, right. It's like, oh, like, should I use these three photos versus here's what I'm doing. What do you think versus like, do you like these three photos? Like all of those are so subtle, but like the answer to all of them. Would vary, greatly and affect you greatly because like how the, uh, facilitator, the person asking for the feedback is setting up the feedback.
If you're like, what do you think? And I'm like, it's cool. Like, I don't love it then it's like, well now you have nothing to go by. It's like, doesn't love it. I don't know what that means. I'm kind of hurt. I thought he did love it, but now he doesn't. But you know, like, is it me? Or if you were like of these three, like, what are your favorites?
Oh, this one. Oh, how come you know? And there's a dialogue and there's like this, uh, continuation. I feel like, and I've been in this many times or such you get feedback and it kind of, you lock up and you don't ask for more, um, You don't ask for more clarity or more detail or whatever. And then as a result, you're like, oh, it must be me, you know, be something internal, which is like probably the furthest thing from the truth.
Um, and then your point about validation, I love is like validation comes only from a place of love. And then you said feedback is more about like criticism and help, but at the same time you did say, well, it's in good faith. And it is out of love as well. You know, I think both come out of love. I think validation to me is highlighting strength.
Feedback is more about highlighting areas of improvement based on whatever criteria it is that you want to improve on. And so I think, um, I was thinking, as you were saying it, like if you only validated someone, I would love to run this test. If you've only ever validated someone, um, No feedback, just validation of like, I love like how you did this and that, and that like, would they actually get better over time?
Um, like faster than someone where you only gave feedback to, or if there was a blend?
elmer: I don't think so. Oh, well simply because I think as artists, we need that feedback to grow. Um, because like I said, not everything you do is gonna be perfect, right? Like your songs might be great, but there may be some, I can tell you them, the song is great and it made me feel something and maybe it made me it probably back to this place, all that cool stuff.
But if I don't give you the negatives in that, or like give you, like what I think could have been better in it that I don't think you would really grow back or it wouldn't motivate you to try new things. Because I think somebody. That constantly here is, this is great. This is great. Or this is bad. If it's bad, uh, you don't really know where to improve it that, or you don't know where to what avenues to change it.
michael: Yeah. That's, that's interesting. And the point I was getting at is like, what if you only highlighted positives and, and I'm not making a case for this, I'm just doing it. I feel experiment here, but I'm that person who said, oh, I love how you highlighted this and that. And then I took that and double down on that.
And then my work became more that more of the good and less of the bad. Now this is a total thought experiment, very interested to see what people are thinking in the threads, you know? Um, and I say this because I've been thinking about feedback a lot. Obviously I've been doing a ton of these episodes. I think with feedback we're often, like, let's find that negative thing or that thing that needs to be fixed or the thing that's not good.
And like, what if that's so minor compared to the amount you feel something from a piece of work, you know, like where like, oh yeah. Like, oh, there was like two notes off, like that's really minor. You should know, like, you know, maybe it was an off day or whatever, but it's like, oh, but I felt so much like, okay, cool.
And then like, that's what you want to lean into. Um, so it's also, I guess maybe what I'm saying is, is how the feedback has positioned, you know, that balance of, of validation and genuine validation and like a critique of things they could improve that.
elmer: Yeah. Well,
I would be very interested in seeing what people think of.
michael: Yeah. Um, but also not to say like only compliment people all the time. Like I get your point, like, you know, then they're there. They could be doing things that are, if it is taking away from the work then. Yeah. Like it's definitely worth a bigger conversation I guess, about it.
But I don't know. I'd love to hear what you think, because this is your interview. Not mine.
elmer: I don't know. Um,
like I said, I don't think personally, I don't think only receiving positive feedback would be it after a certain point. I don't think it would be happy that will be healthy. Um, because I feel like that will leave you stagnant in that. So like if someone told, okay, I think that this is initial that I had to come down.
I'm sorry. I'm going to start over. Is that people would always tell me your portraits are amazing. Even if they would've given me feedback or whatever they, for the most part, they'll be like, your portraits are amazing. I love Ikea with capture people. I love how you stuff like that rundown. And it got to the point where I started seeing myself only as a portrait photographer.
Um, because in my mind I thought, well, shit, I'm good at this, right. Let me, let me keep doing that. And it got, uh, it kind of tied me to that. Nice. Uh, what, what I still love doing portraits and head shots and all that. Um, I started posting all my stories since I started working in the city. Now again, uh, I started posting a picture every day of the city.
Thank you. Uh, I started posting those photos everyday on my stories, uh, the city Chronicles, um, and I started getting from people saying, wow, these are great. Why don't you do more of this? And I'm like, well, and then it's, it may not make sense, but it's like, I it's almost like I forgot the other avenues exists where I was like, well, shit, wait, I am, I am pretty good at taking landscapes or city full of cityscapes.
So I think that's where, why I say that only positive validation. Isn't a good thing. Cause I am, I guess I am living proof that it wouldn't and again, everyone's different, but I asked her, I only answered with myself, but. Got me stuck in that NISO 'cause it kinda, it kinda made me afraid to branch out to everything else.
michael: Yeah. Yeah. It gave you that's so interesting. It's like the negative of positive validation. It's like, dude, you're so good at this. You're like, shit, that's all I'm going to do. Whereas like, if I'm like, dude, you're terrible at this. You're like, I'm not going to do this or I'm going to try to get really good at it.
It's so funny. Both of them have dualistic properties. Like if we're too positive, it can make it bad or good. That's very interesting. Yeah. That's a very good point. Yeah. I mean, I even find like with my dad, like he'll never give like too deep of criticism about the workload. He's like, oh, that's so great.
But there's sometimes where he does, but I feel like more often it's very positive and like, I definitely see the downside there where it's like, I want to like know some nuance. Like I want to be pushed a little bit, uh, based on the critique, but I think it's also how it's set up, you know, it's like, oh, Hey, I'm really curious.
Like, what's your opinion on. The style or whatever at the same time feedback is very revealing to things you might not know. How has, how has feedback helped you as a photographer?
elmer: It's pushed me to try new things. Um, like I'll use what you said as an example where you took that photo and you developed it and you loved it.
You thought it was great. And then your professor said those for the four quarters and ever since then, it's pushed to you to, to literally brought it into your scope. So when it comes to feedback, it's definitely when somebody tells me, wow, this photo by, by the lake was so cool. This photo, this person was by the lake by lake was so cool.
Why don't you try it? Maybe you should try to do it in this. Or maybe you should get her to different polls. Maybe you should do it in a different location. Something like that, where it's it's made me think. Okay. Maybe I should look into studying more poses or maybe I should look into not taking so many photos in this one location because it kind of got to the point, like for me, a forest park, there's a park here in New York, beautiful park.
And it got so many people wanted me to shoot there with them. Um, they got to the point where people started leaving my friends. So what telling me like, oh, you shouldn't be going to forest park. Like, that's your spine? I'm like, damn like your right hand. So there was a, part-time where I completely stopped shooting there.
Right. Um, cause again, I got, I got comfortable in the validation. Like why are you putting your photos in the forest? So, let me not leave the forest.
michael: That's a metaphor in and of itself. Let me not leave the forest.
elmer: Yeah. So it's like, I don't like the feedback started wanting me, started pushing me to try to do new things, try new I'm new to photography.
Uh, those times where I was only shooting with one specific lens. Uh, and then I started shooting in front of the lens because they, all, my photos started looking the same. Um, so yeah, the feedback definitely pushed me. And I guess the positive, the positive, sorry, the creative feedback. Like I said, if you tell me your photos suck, but then I'm like, cool.
Why does it suck? And you can't and I don't know. I just don't like it. Okay. Well, I'm sorry,
michael: but I mean, let's say someone did say that. Would that still hurt you or would it happen?
elmer: Definitely would have been the past. Um, and right now I'm not going to lie to you and say, I would just brush it off. It would probably stay with me for a little bit, but after a while, I'll brush it off.
Um, I know it shouldn't hurts. They,
michael: what do you think the reason is that you don't, you wouldn't be as hurt now as you would have before?
elmer: Uh, I like to say, I like to think I've grown as a person. I used to be someone who was very shy, very reserved, very quiet, very much fear of rejection in every sense I would see. I would see, um, someone mildly interesting, not even just a pretty girl, like someone mildly interesting. And I would not be able to go up and talk to them, um, because just the horrible insecurities.
And through the years through my friendships and to then through people, I surrounded myself with I'll slowly start overcoming those things. And with that, somewhere in that I became better at taking feedback. Hmm. I thing, I think my reactions to negative feedback came from a very bad fear of rejection, uh, which not only did it stop me from doing pursuing things in photography or videography, but it has stopped me from doing many things.
That's held me back so much. So yeah.
michael: Big that's big, you mentioned people and I want to talk about like finding the right people for a creative person. What does that, what does that look like to you? What has that look like to you? Um, did you start out like always having creative friends or, um, definitely.
elmer: It's definitely not. Um, I had to, I had a friend group and I in high school that, to this day, I still love them. They're still my brothers. Uh, but I always felt like they didn't understand me, uh, because one of them was an athlete. The other one was a scholar. Uh, like literally like one of the top five people in the school.
Uh, one of the most, it was on the basketball team and stuff like that. So I was always, and this, the thing is that this back then where I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't discover photography then. Uh, well, even so I says, I didn't discover it, writing them. Um, so I always felt like something was missing and that wasn't until I reconnected with people like Jay and Shanita.
michael: Yeah.
elmer: Um, I reconnected with them and Shelley's being a writer and Jay being interested in photography as well. Uh, we, they, they kind of helped me. And again, acknowledge like this is something that you love, that's when you pursuing that, the encouragement to pursue it. And then with time we added, like, I added people to my little friend group where it was like, like Jennifer, like Kim JC, uh, you will either make me meeting you has changed my life, honestly.
Uh, and honestly meeting all of them who has so, and all of you have helped me in many ways to become who I am now. Um, so definitely, yeah, like I said, like I w I was always haunted by it by art. Um, so the right people, I guess sensory question is people that encourage you to try new shit. They, even if it sucks, like you would try it, you'll tell them about it.
They'll rip it apart of the Haftar is to make you better. Um, but like the people who love you for you and people who love you for the people that they think you could become.
michael: Wow, that's beautiful. And I mean, I think that sums up finding the right people there, the encouragement people that are acknowledging and validating and are on your team, really like people that see where you want to be, or maybe even not where you want to be, but where you could be and validating that.
I think, you know, I've seen that with, with you and Jay and Shenice and JC and Jen, I mean, the list goes on and on and on. The group in New York is one of the reasons why I'm so excited to be in New York now, and to be here for the top, for the next while and until something else. Um, and, um, I should announce that I'm moving into Brooklyn.
I'm subletting there, uh, for several months. I don't know how long actually, so I'll be around. I'll be in Williamsburg. Um, but yeah, I mean, you guys are one of the reasons for that, the same way you said that I changed your life. I mean, you guys have absolutely changed mine as well. Seeing how you interact with each other, you specifically, and everyone as a group, you know, like that dynamic has been so inspiring and so encouraging and still loving, uh, not without conflict and bullshit and whatever.
Like that's every friend group, but being that has been, um, been great. And I think in terms of finding the right creative. Um, would you say those are the things like to look for, for people that are looking for that group, that outlet, like the acknowledgement, the validation, the encouragement. Is there anything else?
elmer: I wouldn't say you lead people that have similar though SU um, people, I guess the reason why I say that is because there are people, there are people in the friend group that aren't, none of them are photographers except for Jay and Kim who dabbles in it. But there are people who are, although they're not a part of that world, they're.
To help you however they can to become, to elevate in that world. Like I could hit any of them up, including you. I've got here anyone up and say, Hey, I have an idea for a photo. I look at a release to you with it. And without hesitation, they'll say, yeah, let's do it. Um, so though they, although they don't take photos themselves, they understand that it's something that I love and they're willing to put their stuff aside to help me grow.
And the same thing with that, I will drop everything to help them in any way. So, so I think that's something that you did that that's one of the most important things in any friend group, not just for artists, but that's people that are just see what you see, what you want to become and are willing to help you get there.
michael: Say less. That was beautiful. Um, I saw a little hearts in the corner. I don't know if you could see the comments, but. Um, well, let's talk about a topic I've been thinking about that you didn't select from this list, but I selected, which is the idea of discovering your true self. The artist is on this quest to find themselves and be, you know, what is that process been like for you?
And what do you feel like has been in the way of that or in support of that
elmer: in the way of that? My own securities and my own thoughts of what I think a photographer should be. Uh, I'm someone who gets very bad tunnel vision, where I'm very impatient. So if I, if I want to create, um, I've had to do a photo shoot, I tend to only think of the edit process and the end product and I had to get there.
So I get hit with that process. It becomes overwhelming. Yeah, but yeah. Um, I've had to break myself down and rebuild myself a few times throughout my lives. Uh, I think that's
michael: shared
elmer: and yeah, no, and I think that's, I think that's the beauty of life constant changing, and it's not sitting there, uh, evolution, uh, because you, where we don't stay, I don't think you stay the same person that you are when you're a little experience has changed.
You. Uh, like I said, I was someone who was very shy, reserved, and wouldn't talk to anybody really. And then that started changing as I started getting older, I started having more experiences, realistic being forced into experiences. Um, so yeah, no, I like, I, I started photography as a whole. But my, when my parents retired and left to back to Columbia, they, that was now what does it board, but I was just, I needed something and my dad always had cameras around.
So I just said, fuck it. And I started, I picked up a cab by myself, a camera started doing that little by little and all my friends, and so said, Hey, what do you listen to do then? That's where it grew. And then, so I went from a shy kid who, who didn't mean to do anything who didn't want to do anything to going into a field where you need to talk to people.
michael: Right, right, right.
elmer: Which I get, I didn't realize that was thing because I got tunnel vision. I just thought, oh, I'm going to do this one photographer and just be great. But I'm thinking, wait, you have to overcome some insecurity.
michael: I that resonates so deeply to my last two years of my life. Um, I was like, yeah, I'm just going to be a business owner.
Like I'm just going to run a design agency, most tunnel vision ever. And man was, I hit with like so much, so much insecurity, doubt, uh, questions, problems, amazing experiences aside like the amount of other shit that I didn't see, like the, the stuff that I was tunnel visioning out of my vision, uh, it all pops up.
And at the same time, it's, it's almost like a pro of the tunnel vision is like, you're looking at the goal and you're like, that's where I want to be. And then things come up, uh, as a result of sort of being tunnel vision, but, uh, things that you have to address, you know, things that you have to, to, uh, to deal with.
Yeah. I mean, that, that hits me, that it hits home. For sure. When you're thinking about discovering yourself, your true self as an artist, um, yeah. Like w what would you say has encouraged that on the journey? What does it actually, what does it mean to you? Like, what does being your true self mean? As it relates to the work, the creative work,
elmer: I guess, being your true self is being honest about what you are, but what your limitations are, what the limitations are, where you're, when it gets to site and go about, uh, yeah, I know it's, it's about being honest about, you're honest with yourself of, and do ya know, like I said, the people around me have really helped them help me with that.
michael: Cool. Great. Um, so, uh, this time around, I did something different where I sent you the topics, usually I don't. And I said, you choose all you, you to choose, want to see how that goes. Just experimenting with different forms here. Um, so you selected a few there's, um, five we haven't covered. Um, and there's another question I have to append at the end, but I want to see where you want to take this.
So you chose personal roadblocks motivations, falling out of love with the work fear slash comparisons and practice. Is there anything, oh, what's the first one you want to dive into?
elmer: Great. Uh, I think with any artists, actually any crops, it is good to constantly do the craft and look out. Uh, look for other people that are doing the crafts at a higher level that you are, um, where I like I have, I thought a bunch of photographers who there are different levels, high degrees higher than I am in terms of success, uh,
michael: and your best buy, sorry.
And you're measuring success by what
elmer: two things, um, financial success and I guess emotional success, two very different things that, that could easily be tied together for some people, uh, where there are some people who are achieving a financial success that, that I aspire to be, that I aspire to. And then there are certain people that I follow that are.
Like living their happiest times right now, doing what they love and succeeding at that. And that's also what I want. I want to be happy. I want to be able to be happy, uh, financially and emotionally. So I constantly have to practice at the craft. And it's like a, as like an athlete, uh, if you, if you're a runner and you stop running for a week and then you have a race at the end of the week, it's gonna affect you because you're not you kind of, your body cooled off to that.
Similar to any athlete has same thing. Like if you haven't been on stage for a year and then you go on stage again, well, yes, you're gonna, you're gonna go on and kill it, but it's still gonna be like, oh shit. I'm out of practice. Yeah. Um, asked her during COVID. I did not pick up my camera. Well, we're still in COVID, but like when, when corn scene was at his worst and everybody would be like, you couldn't leave your house or whatnot.
Uh, I was looking at, I'll still be able to work, but I did not pick up my camera for about six months. Oh, wow. I did an edit. I didn't do anything. Um, like I think like everybody, I kinda got into a funk where I was like, what's the point of doing this? I just need, I just need to get through the day. Um, if anything, there's just started writing more during that time.
That's exciting. Uh, but when it comes to photography, I didn't pick up my camera for like six months. And when I, I started doing it again, when we got a dog, we got a new dog during COVID. He got adopted, we rescued a dog. Uh, and I said, oh, once he preaches. And I started taking pictures of him and I kind of felt myself.
Because when it comes to photography, I'm someone who likes to work on manual mode. Basically I do all the work. I don't know if the cameras do anything for me. Yeah. And there was a time before COVID where I kind of had it down, packed. It was a rhythm for me, all the settings and whatnot. And then I started taking pictures of his dog and I'm like, let's talk about the way blacks kind of lost that rhythm, that muscle memory.
So I think that sort of practice of work because you, you have to get better. You have to keep that memory. I'm also very,
michael: what are you doing for your practice? Like this practice very regimented loose somewhere in between. Like, are you setting up kind of challenges for yourself? Like how do you think about practice?
Um,
elmer: I tend to think I'm actually right now in the process of thinking every year I do a type of Halloween shoot or shoots in general, uh, when I start posting them for the month of October, Um, so right now with the process of looking for that, they look thinking of ideas. So in that vein, I'm constantly thinking of ideas.
If I see something cool that I, that like that effect that Instagram for our photographer through something really cool. I'll say I want to try that and I'll just go out and try it. Yeah. Just keep practicing at it. Even though it's not a thing I'm going to a school that I'm probably going to use. I still want to practice it and get better at it just so I know how to do it.
michael: Right. So kind of I'm borrowing from other artists as inspiration. Like here's something they did. Like how can I do my own take on it? That's great. Yeah. It reminds me of when I first started designing like every day after work or starting my first job where I was like officially designing. I would after work, just copy websites all the time.
Like how did they make that? And at the time it was like, when buttons were like 3d and whatever, I was like, how did they get this exactly to look 3d and like different gradients and shadows and yeah, I mean, it was so helpful, you know, a lot of people, uh, might've been a version to the idea of copying or stealing, but I think, you know, stealing being like presenting it as your own work versus copying as a practice, I think is, is so beneficial.
elmer: I guess, think a little bit as a musician putting out a cover song, right? Yeah. You're, you're taking elements from this original song, but putting your own spin on it. Right. And then eventually that may lead you into a whole new project that was inspired by it, but completely girl.
michael: Yeah. That's so interesting.
I find myself, uh, covering songs in between record. It's like bridges the gap for me to like, where I'm going next. What am I listening to? Yeah, that's great metaphor, really great metaphor. I'm curious about motivations. You selected that as a topic, and I'm wondering why
elmer: it's always good to know what drives you. Uh, I guess that keeps that not only QC that away each crowded, but it also elevates you if that makes sense, because you are, you're working for and towards something, um, motivated towards having I'm motivated to is having, uh, my photography in the gallery. So that pushes me to look into galleries, look into photographers who have had their stuff in galleries, and it gives me a goal.
Um, Well also motivations co uh, been a negative where it's like, I see this photographer did this horrible thing, or this art is this horrible thing. I don't want to do that. I refuse to become that. And that's also a motivation. And in the same direction, it's
michael: helping you align on like your values by seeing.
Yeah. I love that. Motivation is it is knowing what guides you and give it, manifests the goal for you by knowing, guiding you. Um, well, I hope to see you in a gallery at some point, but at this point you've been working hard enough. Um, any other thoughts on motivations?
elmer: Well, I'll tell you something that, um, I, my closest friends know that I saw, I guess the 10 of the whole road now.
Um, I do this thing where it's gonna walk past an empty building. Or like an empty office space or something like that. And I'll stop and look at it. And I'm like, that's my future gallery. And I just tell you, sit there and look at the window and just build that gallery in this empty space. Amazing. So I guess that that's a custom motivation for me.
michael: Yeah. To really visualize it and think about it often. Is that the next, uh, next goal on the horizon for you?
elmer: No, no, uh, not, not the next one. I think that that's a more of a, when it happens, it happens right now. The goal is to keep advancing in my craft of photography, but also in video video, because I I've realized that I'm pretty, I've gotten pretty decent at telling a story.
What about photography? That I want to see what I could do a video. Yeah, I'm curious. So it's not more, it's more a project for me, um, than it is for like financial gain or anything. Um, and then hopefully, eventually, if people like what I produce and what I, then it could be a financial thing, but right now that's, that's mine.
That's
michael: my new, how the, yeah. I'm excited to see what your photos are when they start moving. You know, like when the frames start moving very quickly,
elmer: I think something that I want to do, that's been motivating me lately is I I'm surrounded by poets and I want to be able to sit down with poets and create video visuals for their poetry.
Yeah. It's like what I tell them. It's it's music videos for poetry.
michael: I think it's genius. Yeah. That's a great.
elmer: And by all means, they, I know I'm not the first person to there's countless people. I'm making visuals for the poems, but I have has gotten to the point where certain people could have looked at photos and they'll know that I took them because of its style and its editing style and whatnot.
I want to do that for video. That would have basically, I want to put my stamp on that, on the poetry world, basically. And then eventually I mentioned working with musicians and then make short films. I'm actually working on a short film right now with a good friend of mine, Christine, uh, who's a publisher.
Uh, I'm making a short film for her poetry for our phone. Uh, so yeah, a little bit. That's the goal. We'll work on visuals, pull out four videos and keep going with photography. And then eventually don't know sky's a little bit
michael: to the moon as this. Um, well, you have about three minutes. I know that you had to leave on time.
Uh,
elmer: push it a little longer.
michael: Okay, cool. Cool. We'll push it until you're about to get fired and then I'll let you go then. Um, man, my favorite topic is to always ask about personal roadblocks. I do feel like we covered a lot of this, um, but we'd love to hear anything else that you haven't covered or more detail.
elmer: I hate when I get so excited for our project and been planning this project and the one I'm in at the end school, when, when I'm close to doing it, it falls through whether it be because of me or just other circumstances. It doesn't work out because once that happens to me, I guess soul demoralized, uh, to the point where it's like, what's the point?
I don't want to do this anymore like that, because I mean that specific project. So I think that's a big roadblock for me or it's, I guess it's a double-edged sword of, I get too emotionally invested in my projects. And like I said, double-edged short, I could be a good thing and a bad thing. Um, but yeah, I got so like impatient and so excited for something that it's like, again, it causes that tunnel vision.
So I would say as my biggest roadblock, and then besides that, it's the insecurity of where it's like, I wanna, I want to work with new people, but I, I can't get the courage to message people and be like, Hey, do you want to work with me? Um, at rejected. Yeah, it's not, yeah. It's projection and that, and there's also like the fear of putting myself out there, uh, which I guess could stem from rejection.
Um, but my friend shack, uh, shaking the world, uh, he challenged me to for the month, every month, this year. So it hit up somebody new and say, Hey, let's do a photo shoot. Let's do a photo shoot. Let's make this happen. And for the most part I've been doing it
michael: one time, one time a month.
elmer: Yeah.
michael: I love that.
That's a great,
elmer: yeah. And then also not only does that push me to reach out to new people and make new basically, uh, make new friends because during a photo shoot, if I don't know you, I'm going to use that Photoshop as a chance to get to know you. Yeah. Um,
michael: what are the photos? And it'll be uncomfortable.
elmer: Uh, but yeah, so it's definitely helped me with that. It's taught me, I think a goal of mine, uh, is, I don't know if you see those videos on Tik TOK or our Instagram, where the strangers go to a really interesting looking person and say, Hey, I really love your style. Can I take your photo? And then do like a whole mini photo shoot right there.
That's a complete stranger. I think that's the eventual goal. And in terms of going up, talking to strangers, oh right now you can think about that gives me anxiety. Cause it's I work in a city and I'm walking to, I have to walk through a Harold square to catch the work. And I see the most interesting people, but I can't get the courage.
I can't even imagine getting the courage to going up to their building, being like, I love your style. I love your look. Can I take your photo?
michael: Oh, look who just joined.
elmer: Yeah.
michael: Um, no, I, that resonates for sure. I mean, I would be in the same position and at the same time, it's like having a camera gives you this opportunity, this lens to the world for, you know, uh, no pun intended really, but like, it gives you that lens that I think people would love to, you know, have to see what you're seeing, you know what I mean?
Um, and you know, as long as you shared with them and whatever, you know, if they ask not to post it, you know, like, you know, of course their wishes, like I think, I think it would be such a great gift that you could, could give to people
elmer: emotionally. That's
michael: the goal. Yeah. Well, I hope to see it one day. I know one day it'll pop up on Instagram and I'll say, all right.
All right. You hear at first, everyone, um, we've got three more, so falling out of love with the word.
Um, and it goes that one. How have you in the past?
elmer: Um, I think, I don't know if that makes sense, but I think I'm more, I fell out of love with myself as a photographer. Uh, the craft style was loved and I always would love, but it was more, I got to a point where I was, uh, I thought like I wasn't growing. Um, I felt like I wasn't growing. Um, hold on
a
second.
michael: This is our first day.
So anyway, that was your boss. Yeah.
elmer: So we got talking about it.
michael: Um, and I'll ask one more question after this.
elmer: Yeah. So I, I got, I got to a point where I was, I, I thought I was at a really growing as an artist, so it got to one more guy. Once I got to the point of what's the point, uh, why am I doing this? And I had to really sit with myself and reevaluate what I wanted to be as an artist.
And basically, I guess, like in a relationship when you guys have issues, you have to sit down and work through those issues, the same thing, just the first off.
michael: Yes. And what did you find? So in that period of time, you said you fell out of love with yourself as a photographer. Like for the photographer.
Don't love that dude anymore because he doesn't have a goal because he's stagnating. Is that what you were kind of saying?
elmer: I, I feel like I start, I didn't, I started doing photography, not for me. I started doing it to please others. Yeah. Um, And a God sort of point where I took a photo shoot with somebody who I did not get a wrong list.
And the only reason I did is because I needed the money. Uh, and then after the Photoshop was done, I literally sat in the Uber and prickly cried because I hated who I became. And it's funny because at that time you posted something on Instagram about baby. Oh yeah. Uh, he posted something that is going to bother me, basically.
How about how much would admire me as an artist and as a person. And that kind of like took me back that kind of brought me back from.
michael: Because those were early, excuse that you took that photo talking about trying to find it,
elmer: but it was to the point where like, I know that photo shoot, I never posted.
That was one of the first, that was one of the only photos that I've, I've never posted the one a day. No, no, no, no. The, one of the person that I shot
definitely posted because I would look at those photos and I hated those photos. I deleted those photos off. My hard drives.
I hated with those photos represents it. So, and then after that, I had to work on myself and I started basically falling in love with Homer, the photographer I got. And I think it made me a lot better.
michael: Which would you say part of that was saying, what, what, what, what led to that to you? Loving Elmer, the photographer again,
elmer: I started.
Doing photography, not for clients. I started, I basically went back to basics. I, I started doing things for fun. I started talking like, because back in the beginning I would hit up Jay. Um, and, and he would show me some like, Hey, let's go take photos. Let's go to the park and take photos. Let's like, not for a client, just for fun.
And probably doing that again to the point where it became fun. Again, it stopped being a chore and it just became something that drove me creatively.
michael: Okay. Last question. Cause I know you have to go. Yeah. If you were to write a book on creativity, what would you include in it?
elmer: Um, there has to be a section on self. Um, 'cause I think so much creativity is, is driven by self worth. Whereas if you, if you don't like or love for the person, you are, uh, it kinda leaves you stagnant because you, you don't, you can't really find motivation to do things for others. So if you can't do things for yourself, you can put things for others.
Uh, and so I think that needs to be a chapter and basically taking time for yourself for taking the time to reevaluate why you're doing the things you're doing and making sure it still aligns with you when your goals, that what you want to become. And if it doesn't and that's when you need to stop and reevaluate
michael: anything else.
elmer: Well,
michael: That's good, man. Wow. Okay. Well, this was a very short interview compared to some where we've gone two and a half hours, but in that I felt like we got so much because you were so open and vulnerable and honest about your experience as a creative. And so I really appreciate you being super honest and vulnerable.
elmer: It was great.
michael: Yeah. The, uh, I'm super excited to hang soon. Um, but yeah, I was, I was very excited to get on the air with you and talk it out. So, um, have a good day at work. Thank you so much for joining again. Um, and to everyone that commented and hearted and whatever shared this or anything, thank you for that.
I appreciate you all. And um, if you can jump off, I'm going to read the posts that I wrote about you, including. Oh,
elmer: let it, you know, when, uh, when you posted that post, I was in the Uber crying my eyes out because I hated who I became. And then I read your post and I started crying of happiness. That's wild.
And that the reasons why I say you changed my life.
michael: Damn bro. Okay. Well then I have to close with this dude. Thank you, man. I love you so much. I love you, but I know that that happened. Um, so I'll show you the photo. So the photo right here is me. Um, about a week before I moved to Los Angeles, it might've been a few days actually.
And it's in Ridgewood, Queens, right outside Julius, which is one of my favorite places. And I posted it. I believe it was on Elmer's birthday. And I was just looking at this shot and thinking about Brooklyn and Queens and, oh, I was actually spending the weekend in Brooklyn. So I wrote this, I'll read it to you.
It's titled persistence. I'm spending the weekend in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and I wanted to post a photo taken near there last year. This was shot by the wonderful Elmer Quintero. Over the past two years, I've watched him grow as a photographer from concepts to compositions, to editing. He has really begun to master his craft, his growth and the growth of many of my friends has played a huge part in helping me commit to my own goal.
Building marketing agency. I've seen through them that this growth doesn't appear out of thin air and you aren't born with it. Their growth is that the direct result of their persistence through improving their craft, saying yes and no to the right things, exploring your ideas, learning over the years, I've made it a point to keep close friends who better themselves every day.
I hope to be an example to them as they are. So that's it. Thanks for joining. Thank you, Elmer for inspiring me for inspiring everyone on this call and I appreciate you all keep creating. Have a great week. I'll see you next Wednesday and that's all for now. Bye.
