Have Christians grown too casual? (Ep. 36)

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Not too long ago, there was a conversation about how casual people should dress as they go to the airport.
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Some would say that flying is an occasion that requires a little bit of dignity.
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Others would say you're gonna be sitting in one spot for a few hours.
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You should probably get comfortable.
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This made me think about a conversation that may be worth having.
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It's regarding the casual nature of our society.
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I don't think I need to give too many examples to demonstrate that people have begun to approach things in a much more casual way than they used to.
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Whether it was in the past going to your the store in your pajamas would have been scandalous to some, and now for many more, it's become quite acceptable.
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How casual can we be?
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Or how about Christians?
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How should we approach things?
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Should we approach everyday life with reverence and respect?
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Or is this a cultural trend that it's okay for us to adopt?
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Today we're gonna address this topic and we're gonna ask the question: Have Christians grown too casual?
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This is Double Portion, a podcast where twin Lutheran pastors discuss the intersection of studying scripture and Christian living.
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My name is Chris Flugaft.
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I'm the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Yoruba Linda, California, and I'm joined by my brother Tony Flugaft.
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He's the pastor at Christ the Vine Lutheran Church, Tony, have Christians grown too casual.
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This is definitely a difficult, in some way, nuanced conversation.
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I remember when I was in college, I would see signs in the city of Milwaukee that would say, would Jesus wear jeans to church?
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And the assumed answer was yes, I think.
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It was from a church that was promoting a casual approach to worship to say that it doesn't really matter what's on the outside, how we dress, how we uh what we wear, the ceremonies, but it's more important what's in the heart.
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And so the reason I say this is a difficult and nuanced conversation because there is perhaps a grain of truth in that perspective, that a a heart that loves the Lord, that has faith, is more important than what's on the outside.
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We see this throughout the Old Testament, as the people of Israel are spoken against by the prophets because they were far from the Lord as their hearts, they were doing the right things, they were offering the sacrifices, but their hearts were far from God.
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So there is a grain of truth, but then to act as though outward ceremonies and the way we dress and approach is just not important, is is just not a biblical way of speaking.
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So are we too casual?
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It's hard to make general statements about everyone, but I I do think that this is a particular struggle for the American Christian.
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It kind of reminds me I was talking to someone um at our church about a friend of theirs who started praying to God and basically started the prayer as sup, God.
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And and that I would say rightfully annoyed the person from my church because it was an irreverent way of approaching God.
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Yes, Jesus is our brother, Jesus is our friend, what a friend we have in Jesus.
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We sing.
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At the same time, he is our God and Lord, and and we want to approach God in reverence and in awe.
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And so there is certainly a struggle that we need to consider in our world today of people approaching God irreverently, and perhaps that that lack of well, I guess maybe I'll say it this way perhaps this casual approach is a lack of reverence.
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Yeah, I think that is something that's certainly worth considering.
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And an additional aspect I would like to add to it, which makes the have a lot of nuance to the conversation as you were acknowledging, is that a lot of these things are culturally informed.
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So you may have some things that appeared casual in one generation and no longer do in this generation.
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It makes me think of some things that I've seen.
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There's a lot of false teachers online, and I think many people are aware of that, and people who will at times just cherry-pick Bible passages from the Old Testament regarding instructions, and they'll create this whole theology about how things today would be wrong without understanding the Mosaic law and the role that it played and the fulfillment in Jesus and Paul's instructions about the freedom from such things and freedom in Christ Jesus.
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But one of the things that I saw in specific was actually talking about men who shave their heads and pastors who shave their heads.
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And as a pastor who shaves his head, I'm like, oh, I gotta listen to what they're saying here.
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Are they making an argument that some I'm doing something sinful and wrong?
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And then pointing to passages like in Leviticus chapter 21 that talks about expectations of the priests and Leviticus 19, talking about that for the people and uh various other Bible passages as well, or Ezekiel chapter 44 says this as well.
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And so these are general discussions or and laws in Leviticus and in the Old Testament priestly system about not having baldness or not having shaved heads in the priesthood.
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And they were then applying it to pastors.
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There's a number of ways we could respond to that to say there's not a one-to-one correlation between priests in the Old Testament and pastors today.
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And then another aspect of it is to consider the cultural context and why those laws were given in uh Old Testament Israel.
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And it seems that with within ancient Near Eastern culture, there are a few reasons, but some of the uh head-shaving stuff had to do with mourning rituals, and that's mourning, not like sadness, not mourning, as in the beginning of the day, uh, but it talks about how not approaching God in mourning or sadness as one who has his head shaped.
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So if we could say, like, hey, there's a problem because we have pastors today who are shaving their head rather than seeing that's just like a style trend of the day and falsely applying some Bible passages there.
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Or there's another one that I saw, and there's another one that was coming at me.
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I guess social media likes to do that.
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It maybe it takes a video of you and then finds videos that are talking about what you look like, but it was talking about how people in church have beards today.
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And this guy was kind of like ranting and raving in his sermon, saying that we don't want to look like the culture and we don't have beard in the church.
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And I I don't necessarily know where that would come from in the Bible, but I have heard some historical cultural things, especially in regards to the wars that were fought in our country, and that having a beard was a statement that you were perhaps a conscientious objector, and you didn't enlist in the military, you didn't fight in the war, and you were not a true supporter of the cause that our society was behind.
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So then it seems in some ways that cultural expectations of a specific time could be wrongly presented in the future, in the future or in the current.
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So the idea like, hey, maybe a hundred years ago, growing out a beard was a demonstration of being rebellious in society, and I am not going to conform.
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But today it does not communicate those same things.
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You're gonna see many men within the church, and you're gonna see many pastors who grow out beards as well.
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So as we think of some of these things, like is growing out a beard too casual as you approach God?
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Are we supposed to shave our faces and have that white collar look from maybe 60, 70 years ago?
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I would encourage us to be careful and cautious to say that every application of a cultural norm from the past needs to be always held to.
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Yeah.
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So one of these conversations they could get into is kind of this idea of head coverings and worship.
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So in Corinth, this is something that the Apostle Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, is teaching the lack of a head covering for a woman would have been irreverent.
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And so then many have questioned well, does that mean that women today need to wear head coverings?
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And that's where you get kind of a long conversation about the history of the practice.
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And so there is a time where uh refusing the head coverings may have communicated a rejecting of God's created order.
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But today, I think it's a pretty simple argument to say that's not the case.
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And so thinking of what's the principle versus the application, and in 1 Corinthians 11, the principle is that um there's this created order, and it is respectful and reverent to God for a woman to show her proper submission to her husband, and then also her role as a uniquely, uniquely created person by wearing that head covering to now wear that would be to be rejecting it.
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And so, kind of this idea I think is really found there in 1 Corinthians 11 is is a reverent approach to God is to embrace her femininity and and live as a a woman and not as a man, I think is kind of the thought there.
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But then to go ahead and apply the head covering idea to our culture today, well, there's nothing uniquely communicated by wearing a head covering, at least that would be my understanding.
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So some have talked about like when head coverings were first stopped being worn by women in our culture, uh in Christian churches, and you could get into that of at that time was there maybe an inappropriate feminist approach to it.
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I mean, one could make that conversation, they could have that argument, but right now I there's just no strong association or cultural communication about head coverings, besides that maybe there are other religions that do that.
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And so I think that'd be one example of what you're saying.
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You don't want to take the culture and say that every culture needs to be the same.
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We go to principles and make an application.
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And so when we think of reverence, it doesn't mean that men or women need to stress a certain way.
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But I think there's that under important underlying issue of is the reverence still there?
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And so I think one thing that you someone could point to is you and I are both wearing, uh, well, I'm on a polo and you're wearing a short sleeve button button up or something.
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When we were children, our pastor wore a suit and tied a shirt to the office every single day.
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Before him, his pastor probably wore a clerical collar every day.
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And and so these things have changed.
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Is it wrong that we're dressed a little more casually than our predecessor?
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Well, we live in a more casual culture.
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Is that a bad thing?
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You can have that conversation.
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Um, I don't I don't think wearing a polo and khaki pants is disrespectful in our culture.
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I don't mean any disrespect by what I'm wearing.
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And so I I think that it is a completely permissible thing to do.
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Yet I think that's where the rubber hits the road.
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We need to have that conversation.
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Just because our culture has become more and more casual, does that mean that we should match our culture and being more casual?
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And and I think that's really our main question.
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Yeah, I I would totally agree with what you're and what you're asking here, because I even going back to the beard example, so there may have been a time where it would have been inappropriate uh for a pastor to have a beard as he was serving the people, because that would have had cultural ties and baggage of uh problems, and then the pastors would have properly said, you know, I'm going to do this thing that demonstrates respect in our society.
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Then there may be some gray area times where there are some questions asking, like what's the proper approach as things begin to change.
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And then there's times where those things have changed altogether, and then you're gonna say, well, this does not communicate that in any way today.
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The difficulty is when you're in kind of those gray area times where you are recognizing this cultural shift, and then asking that question like, how can I demonstrate reverence and awe for my God and the callings that He has given to me in a proper sense amidst what's currently going on?
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I think this is one that you and I have wrestled over a little bit about wearing a necktie on Sunday mornings.
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It's been a pretty quick shift in these things where we had a father who worked in the business field, and growing up, dad wore a tie to work and he wore a tie to church.
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And but then I recall the shift and when we would be home for the summer from college, and then he'd be like, Well, dad's not really wearing a tie to church anymore.
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And then now the entire time I've served as a pastor, uh, it's been pretty uncommon to see men wear ties to church.
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There are some who will who will wear ties, and some I've noticed wear ties when there's communion on that Sunday, and they want to show their reverence and respect.
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But that's something that we've wrestled over.
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Where how do I approach this where I want to demonstrate proper reverence and respect in the time that I'm living in, especially as these things are changing?
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Uh, do we as pastors continue in our synod to uh just wear the blazer, the suit coat, and just wear a shirt without a tie?
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I've seen many go that way.
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Or do we say, you know, maybe it's time to wear a different vestment, a different clothing item and wear a clerical collar instead, because we're we're already wearing the tie and setting ourselves aside, and we'll say, well, a clerical collar, which wasn't invented for Catholic churches, but instead invented for the use of a Protestant clergy, what has been a long-standing cultural set aside for those who serve in the ministry, and has that recognition and seems to be kind of timeless in some extent.
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So it it creates a difficult area for people, especially as they live through some of these changes and say, How do I approach the changes that are coming?
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Maybe before we get into that a little bit deeper, we should just establish this from scripture than we are expected to approach God with reverence and awe.
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So we've kind of been assuming that and properly so, but let's just get into a couple different Bible passages to clearly make that case that God is to be approached with reverence.
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And so one of the clearest passages is Hebrews chapter 12, verse 28.
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Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let's be thankful and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe.
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And then it gets into verse 29 for our God is a consuming fire.
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So God is to be approached with reverence and awe.
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And so that word reverence maybe needs to be defined a little bit more clearly.
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So there's this idea of like a fear of God that's connected to the to the word, and we can get into the Old Testament idea of the fear of the Lord.
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Um but this idea of this proper respect, I think, is one way.
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These this proper respect that you are to show to God.
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And and so that's one passage.
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Do you want to pull up any others or share any others that make this case?
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Yeah, so um I've been studying Isaiah as I'm starting an Isaiah Bible study at my church on Thursday, and I was thinking through the call commissioning of Isaiah, and he's he sees the Lord and he sees the seraphim there with the Lord, and they're calling out to one another holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty.
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The whole earth is full of his glory.
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So so we have the threefold repetition of holy, holy is being set apart from sin.
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God is holy, and then therefore, it demands uh as we approach God to have this reverence.
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You think of how Isaiah he he approached God, he says, Woe to me, I cried, I am ruined, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the king, the Lord Almighty.
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And so the the seraphim goes to him and cleanses his lips.
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But Isaiah, as many figures do when they see the Lord in the scriptures, is that they're terrified because they're unclean people coming before the holy God.
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And I want to make this connection to the divine service, our typical worship service of the songs that we sing before the Lord's Supper.
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So we have what's called the Sanctus, holy, holy, holy, a song inspired by this text.
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Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty.
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Uh so in a number of different ways within the worship service, we are coming into the presence of that holy God.
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Now we can have confidence as we come into his presence on behalf of Christ Jesus, the mediator between God and man, but it's still something we want to recognize that within this worship service, we are coming into the presence of God, albeit the gracious presence of our God.
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But it is good to recognize this fact.
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I remember when I was in seminary writing a paper that talked about God's presence among us within the worship service.
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It demands our respectful approach.
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So a joyful, a wonderful approach, but a respectful approach as we recognize it is only by his grace that we can come into his presence.
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So another section that kind of quote or quotes alludes to Isaiah, it's Revelation 4.
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You've got each of the living creatures flying, and then it's they say, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is his, who was and is and is to come.
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Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives forever and ever.
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The 24 elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever.
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They lay their crowns before the throne and say, You are worthy, O Lord, and God to receive glory and honor and power, for you've created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.
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So we see that these elders in Revelation declare God's glory, declare that He the preach.
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Declare that he is holy, they say the Lord is worthy, and they show it with their actions as well, as they fall down before him, as they they lay their crowns before him.
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And so one of these thoughts is it's so easy to make reverence to God merely about a heart thing or a word thing.
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And to be fair to those churches who do not have a lot of ceremonies and who have a very casual approach.
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The example that I gave about someone praying saying, suck God, is probably more rare than common.
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I would say typically a Christian is going to speak pretty reverently of God, even if they're a little more casual about it, or at least they're going to try to be.
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But I think it is flattening things up too much to say that reverence is just about the heart or just about the words.
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I think our actions communicate reverence as well.
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The things that we do, the things that we wear, our approach, all of these things communicate reverence.
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And we see this throughout the scriptures when people in the Old Testament look to repent, confess their sins before God, we see them put on sackcloth and ashes.
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Uh, there's very much an element about the things that you do and the things that you say and the things that you are and the things that you wear.
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And so the things that you do and the things that you wear help to affirm what it is we say and believe.
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And so it kind of reminds me of this quote from Deion Sanders back when he was playing football.
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It was look, if you look good, you feel good, if you feel good, you play good.
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If you play good, they pay good.
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And so there kind of this idea that he's saying, like, the way that you dress helps how you feel.
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And when you feel good, you're gonna play good.
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And and I I think maybe applying that idea to worship is legitimate.
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The way that I dress helps me to approach what I'm doing in a proper way.
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And so when I have, maybe you don't need the nicest of nice clothes, and there's even an argument biblically about like not being not flaunting your wealth with the way you dress, but when you have kind of your set-aside Sunday clothes, Sunday best, it helps to communicate to yourself, we are doing something different today.
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So if you look good, you feel good.
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If you if you're dressed in a way that says this is different, you're going to feel like this is different, and then you're going to act like this is different.
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And so we see it with the elders in revelation that they show reverence to God not just through their words, but through their actions.
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And I think that's appropriate for the Christian as well.
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What are the different things that we can do that help to enforce what we are saying so that we do approach God with reverence and awe as we've been called to do?
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Yeah.
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And the dress, what you put on your body is not the only way to do that through action to represent like how I am approaching God in reverence.
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There are other actions that you you can do as well.
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Now, even these ones are a little bit up in for conversation because churches can change from time to time, but properly worth consideration.
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I don't know if you heard the conversation about whether or not you can bring an iced coffee into an interview.
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Yeah.
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But people talked about how this was a frustrating thing to say, like, can't you just take a moment without the iced coffee for the interview?
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Like some said, can't you show proper respect for the interviewer and the position that you want?
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Other talked about others talked about just like delaying your gratification.
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But there can be some conversation about like, do you want to bring coffee into the sanctuary?
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That's different than simply the way that you dress.
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And it's more than just you don't want to spill on the carpet if there's carpet in that sanctuary, but just thinking about is this a reverent way to approach?
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Or the conversation too can be about uh just like do you approach talking, saying hi to everyone in the sanctuary?
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:40.480
I think there is some benefit to making those connections, especially like as the pastor, when I and when I shake people's hands as I leave church, I recognize I'm not gonna have a good time to talk to everyone.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:49.119
So sometimes if I see people in the sanctuary as I'm headed to the sacristy to go vest for the service, I'm like, I need to go talk to that person.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:56.160
I want to go say hi to that person because I'm not confident I'm gonna have an opportunity to talk to them after the worship service.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.759
But for some, that that is a conversation to be had.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:04.079
Like maybe this is a time that should be spent in prayer.
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:10.400
So prayer could be something that you do, silence for for meditation and reflection.
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:16.480
So it's more than just what you wear that's part of this conversation.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:25.759
Other actions can be done to demonstrate reverence for the fact that you are approaching the holy God in his gracious presence.
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:38.880
I think one of the struggles of this conversation that you alluded to before and is part of our cultural conversation, is how quickly our culture is changing in this regard.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:49.039
That there were things that a generation ago were unquestioned, that like this is reverent, this is proper, this is respectable, that have changed.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:28:03.039
And you don't want to play this generational blame game, but frankly, it was our grandparents' generation, the silent generation, that held to many of these points of we view this as proper respect.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:11.599
And it was the baby boomers and and the um and gen apps, perhaps, that kind of were part of the change.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:17.920
And and millennials and Gen Z are certainly propagating that change as well.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:32.240
But it was from our grandparents to us, that span of time is when a lot of this drastic and quick change occurred.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:41.680
So like to this day, Aaron's grandma will still say like she doesn't really like it when people bring water bottles into church.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:46.799
Because like, well, it's kind of that same idea, similar to the iced coffee.
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.440
Can't can't you just go without the water bottle for a little bit?
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.079
Does this need to be brought into the sanctuary?
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.440
And and so there uh people hold that opinion.
00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:13.279
I mean, they were the generation who also be like the men wore ties, and and maybe even some of them the the women wore head coverings, and and so it was in that short period of time that things changed so drastically, and then we need to have that conversation.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:17.519
Like, I guess is that is it a good thing?
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.440
Is it a good thing that everything in life has become so casual?
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:34.799
Even in my own experience, I I've I worked at a church where the uh the pastor's opinion was that men should not wear shorts to the office.
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:46.400
And that was a long-held opinion about like pastors' conferences that was expressed at the beginning of our our ministries, which has even seemed to change since then.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:50.559
Like, oh well, maybe it's it's hot, it's okay.
00:29:50.640 --> 00:30:06.480
And and so that's I mean, like again, there's a longer conversation, but I I think part of it is worth considering when these things have so drastically and quickly changed, it is worth having that conversation as to whether or not the change is good.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:20.319
Yeah, and part of what I'm thinking here is some of the reaction that people I'd have to a conversation like this is like what a silly conversation to be had.
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:25.680
There are so many people who are lost, who don't know Christ, who are separated from him.
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:31.519
Why are you talking about like what clothes they should go to where to go to church?
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.599
Because we just want them to go to church.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:36.480
And I appreciate the heart behind that, right?
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:43.519
I appreciate the people whose their approach is like do we really need to add extra obstacles?
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:45.200
Do we really need to care about this?
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.880
Do we need to think about this?
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:54.720
Because at the end of the day, less people go to church than did not that long ago.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.359
It seems like statistically speaking, that the church in America is on a free fall.
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:14.079
Let's not have conversations about this, let's not build extra stumbling blocks that get in the way, and let's just approach them where they are and and who they are.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:16.960
And I appreciate some of those thoughts.
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:28.640
I appreciate the heart of just saying, I'm I know Christ Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and I want them to know Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:34.640
And at the end of the day, these things are not going to save them.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:40.720
Only Christ will save them, and He comes to them through Word and Sacrament.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:48.480
And whether they're wearing nice clothes or not nice clothes, the word and sacrament's efficacious.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.359
So let's just bring Christ to them.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:52.960
I appreciate it.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:59.680
Now, how I've been talking might show that I'm going to give a little bit of pushback behind this conversation.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:21.440
And I I think part of it is that culturally speaking, as we continue to lower the bars of expectation, if that can inadvertently communicate to people that this isn't really anything all that different or all that special.
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:32.799
And if that can, in a human way, hurt people, like can that truly be the stumbling block that gets in their way?
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:43.599
We might think telling people to not wear jeans with holes in them to church is a stumbling block that gets in the way from them hearing Christ and Him crucified.
00:32:43.759 --> 00:33:06.640
But perhaps failing to talk about some of these ideas is actually the stumbling block because it presents that there's really nothing different between going to church and going to the store, that there's no difference amongst these things, and maybe not even anything that special.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:16.240
And it doesn't hold up and show what's truly happening here as we bring it to be feel like everything else.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:27.519
And I would argue fairly strongly that we have a society that still recognizes some things are set aside and set apart.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:48.799
That you look at a football game that at one of the biggest college stadiums, watch college game day, and you will say there are people who know the rhythm, the routine, and the expectations of dress to go to one of those games.
00:33:49.519 --> 00:34:01.599
Or look at look at, although weddings are changing a little bit, but look at weddings, people still have some of these expectations of how do you demonstrate reverence and respect.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:15.280
Uh, it is scandalous for a woman to wear a white dress to a wedding if it's not her wedding, because there is an expectation of I'm gonna show reverence for this woman alone is going to wear white here.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:23.679
So in our society, there may be some wonderful blessings to say this can be treated as different.
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:30.880
So with the College Game Day conversation, that's the critique that some have with Pat McAfee.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:37.039
That they don't like that he is so, in their words, irreverent towards this.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:41.280
And then with that conversation about like, is it actually harmful?
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:43.519
There's a kind of two thoughts I want to present here.
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:59.119
I think in one sense, this desire to become more casual was actually an improper reaction, blaming what is at times good and right for the the what the devil is doing.
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:05.840
So blaming kind of this reverent worship as to why people were leaving the church.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:15.199
And so then to say, well, we need to change what the church is doing based up which is dictated based upon God's word, because there are people leaving the church.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:31.760
Well, if the devil is pulling people away, and their their problem, I mean, their problem was not about the reverence, and if it was about the reverence, there's a deeper problem about perhaps failing to understand who God is and what that means.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:40.400
And so the to to make it all about reaching people is sometimes just too simplistic and explaining the wrong thing.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:52.880
The the other issue um with this idea is like it's almost like a lazy form of evangelism that we're gonna connect with people by the the way that we're dressed.
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:59.519
We can connect with people through the way that we talk to them, the way that we uh live with them, the way that we interact with them.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.199
And it's almost like this this idea of like the silver bullet.
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:09.920
And at every pastor's conference about evangelism, people are like, beware of the idea of the silver bullet.
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:20.320
But then seemingly many people just kind of think that a casual approach is that silver bullet that's just gonna solve all of your problems.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:26.159
That it's like, well, of course we can't, of course, we can't go more elevated in our approach.
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:33.280
We need to be more casual because we want to communicate to our culture, but sometimes being different and standing out is good.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:43.199
And then, like you talked about in our culture, there's actually still a point of understanding of hey, there is some things that are different, some things that are special.
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:59.119
And and so even as you watch sports, you see that the the commentators are still wearing like a suit and tie, and you you put turn on cable news and they're still dressed nicely.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:13.599
And so there is this idea of become becoming more casual at the same time, there are still professional positions that are expected to dress and look a certain way.
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:23.760
Like you think a football game, it certainly wouldn't seem like a place where people would be nicely dressed, but the the announcers still are.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:32.559
So it's like even though the people attending aren't dressed nicely, the people who are playing that specific role are still dressed accordingly.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:41.440
And then to take that to a different level, the football players very wear a very specific uniform as they aren't there to attend, but they're there to do something.
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:49.119
And so you may be applying that to like the pastor who is there to do something, and and he has a uniform.
00:37:49.199 --> 00:38:04.320
And so you have places where there's an expected uniform or an expected way of dressing, whether it's a police officer, a firefighter, a football player, whatever it might be, there are still these positions where it's like, no, you you dress in a certain way.
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.320
And so those are just a couple of thoughts regarding what we were talking about.
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:21.519
The last one that I I wanted to share with kind of the reaction that might some might have to this idea of talking about a casual approach, is it's so quickly for people to throw out the accusations of legalism.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:43.920
And I think the legalism and a fruit are the Wells person's favorite words because it's just a it's a get out of jail free card off and it's in the conversation here card of well, that's legalistic to say people should dress or act or do things in a certain way.
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:50.400
We need to talk about guidance from God's word of how we how we approach worship.
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.239
Like, where else would we get what we're doing in worship from?
00:38:54.480 --> 00:39:01.280
And so anytime you talk about what it's to look like, you're you're going to God's word and and considering that.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.960
And so no one's saying, okay, you're gonna go to hell if you don't dress a certain way.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.159
But at the same time, let's look at what scripture has to say and apply that to our context.
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:21.119
And and so I I I'm just in a way tired of kind of just the the lazy argument that gets thrown out, like that's legalistic.
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:25.599
Well, it could be, and I and again, I'll I'll provide this question.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.519
There are some people that I've seen that I do think get legalistic about things like this that do say too much.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:39.440
But just because someone talks about what's good and right doesn't mean that they're being legalistic.
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:40.400
Yeah.
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:49.280
And this this is where I think it might be appropriate to give the warnings in regard to going too far for something like this.
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.239
So I'll I'll share something that I listened to.
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:59.760
I listened to a radio show that now podcasts fairly often from a different branch of Lutheranism.
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:06.559
And something they will often do is they'll have listener questions that they'll confront.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:19.199
And one of the questions was the person thought that her pastor was growing too casual in matters of of his office.
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:27.199
And then I was I was kind of contemplating ahead of time, thinking, like, what is she gonna say is the problem?
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:35.760
Like he's going to the office wearing jeans and a t-shirt, he's not wearing vestments anymore during the worship service.
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:42.880
Maybe he, when they have the the block party for the church, he's getting in the dunk tank.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.920
Some of the things I've heard complaints about before.
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:52.960
And I was actually flabbergasted when I heard what she was upset about.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:41:01.039
She said that he wasn't wearing a clerical collar when uh always when he went on shut-in visits.
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:08.800
He wasn't bowing at the altar when he approached it during the divine service.
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:19.920
He wasn't, oh man, I think it wasn't, he was he wasn't bowing at the processional crucifix when it went by during the worship service.
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:26.639
So then in her understanding, she had all of these things that said reverence.
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:34.559
And as her pastor was not doing these things, he was being irreverent from her perspective.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:40.960
From my perspective, I was kind of like, wow, I feel like she's going a little too far.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:57.039
So I think there is room for us to be careful and cautious, especially to look at like the background that someone comes from, the background that their church comes from, and the time that they are serving in.
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:12.400
So I I wouldn't say that we the Wells is a totally low church background church, but when when we were growing up, it wasn't uncommon to see our pastors wear a black Geneva.
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:17.360
And you would think of the worship service was a liturgical worship service.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:25.039
The church had pews and stained glass, but there were certain things that would have you would have never seen.
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.360
You would have never seen a professor processional crucifix.
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:37.280
You would have never seen the pastor bowing at the altar, you would have never seen a genuflecting or crossing yourself.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:49.920
So to think that someone's not doing these things is therefore a problem and a demonstration that this person does not have reverence and respect from for the Lord.
00:42:50.239 --> 00:43:08.400
We need to be cautious that we don't go too far in that direction and then start to make rules and laws out of these things and have these expectations to be like the reason that person didn't do that is because it was he's never actually seen people do it.
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:14.880
It's just not part of the history of that congregation or of his upbringing in the faith.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.119
Yeah, just thinking of a similar thought.
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:23.039
I don't think I saw a Wells pastor wearing a clerical collar until I was in seminary.
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:32.880
I'm trying to think of any situation where that was just it was not a thing around us when we were growing up.
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:42.239
Now, historically, it might suggest that it was just a generation previously, and there seems to be some picture evidence of that.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:52.400
So like our pastors didn't wear clerical collars and pastors in our federation of our high school, and I don't think I really saw one until I was in seminary.
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:59.440
And you'd see guys wearing one at symposium, or you'd see one like I knew a pastor would wear one.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.840
So I I think that there is some of our own culture that needs to be brought into this conversation.
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:16.719
Like if someone's just kind of taught this is what reverent looks like, it's maybe not fair to judge them based off of what uh a different standard of reverence.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:21.760
Because it uh these things in a sense are a diaphragma.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:29.760
And I know some people don't like the word adiafra because it gets thrown out into just like go and do whatever you want, but these things are adiapra.
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:34.000
So then we're we're guided based upon the principles in God's word.
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:41.039
And so someone doesn't wear a clerical collar, they don't do some of these extra things that someone sees as bread rental.
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:44.320
It isn't that they're necessarily even denying them.
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:47.679
It's just like that's not what they were brought up in.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.920
That's not what they were taught as reverent.
00:44:50.159 --> 00:45:01.119
They were taught reverence was wearing a wearing a robe and singing hymns from the hymnal and following page 15 or whatever it might be.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:03.679
And so it is an interesting conversation.
00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:18.480
People certainly can take it too far, but I I do think there's the issue on the other end where it's just going along with the culture of constantly becoming less reverent and more casual.
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.920
And I think that is something that we want to provide a caution for.
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.440
Do we constantly need to follow the culture in this regard?
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:33.199
And so you talked about it with the airplane, where like, do we are people supposed to dress nicely on an airplane?
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:39.039
Is there a certain level of respect for your fellow person who's traveling that dictates the way that you dress?
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.440
Or is it fine to just wear um sweatpants and a sweatshirt?
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.480
And when you go to the store, is there a certain level of dress?
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:57.760
Because when we were younger, um, if people are dressed too casually, uh they might take a picture of them, put them in a book called The People of Walmart.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:04.079
But a lot of these things have changed, and now you see high school kids wearing pajama pants to school.
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:16.239
And and so one of the things I think is worth just pausing and questioning is like, is this race towards the the most casual extent actually good and right?
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:20.400
Or are there just things in life that are serious that we should take seriously?
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:29.599
And I guess like I'll portray my my view is like I do think that there are things in life that are serious that should just be taken seriously.
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.039
And we don't want to take it too far.
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:36.320
Someone wears sweatpants to or pajama pants to Walmart, whatever.
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.719
Someone wears uh sweatpants on a plane, I don't care.
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:44.800
Like like it's not it's not a special thing anymore.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.599
Flying on plane is a pretty pretty normal thing nowadays.
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:54.079
Uh so if someone doesn't approach that reverently, I don't I don't really care.
00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:07.039
But I do think that there is a point to say, like, hey let's take some things in life seriously, and maybe our dress does impact the way that we think and the way others perceive us.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:20.639
And and church is certainly one of those things, but maybe it's good to not always give in to every desire and trying to become less casual in our life.
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:25.039
Yeah, I think there's benefit to marking certain things off.
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:32.880
So my kids go to a Wells school that has uniforms for the students, and I appreciate that.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.960
There's a number of reasons why I think uniforms are beneficial for students.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:42.320
It can kind of be a leveling off for people who have income disparity.
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:50.159
Uh if you're all wearing uniforms, you can't tell necessarily who's wearing the name brand clothes and who's not wearing the name brand clothes.
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:51.599
You're all just wearing uniforms.
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:56.639
Uh, I think it can be helpful with getting rid of distractions.
00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:08.159
I think that there are a few ways that clothing can become a distraction within the school, whether it's as they get older and you have to worry about dress code violations.
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:21.039
Uh, and here it's just like, well, a dress code violations, you're not wearing the the uniform, you're not wearing the approved clothing rather than having these conversations about the length of uh someone's clothing.
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.840
Just this is a uniform, this is what's approved.
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:31.440
I think it can get rid of some of those distractions that people aren't worrying about that, or just like kids have graphic T T-shirts on when they're learning.
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:35.679
So I think uniforms can be a blessing in a number of ways.
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:44.960
But then I I really appreciate uniforms because it helps demonstrate an elevation of like you're doing something special.
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:59.840
You are engaging in this wonderful task that God has given to you to learn, to study, to grow in your ability to serve Him by serving others in a variety of vocations.
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:08.159
And so I think there can be a huge blessing to setting aside things that we do in ways that we dress.
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:10.960
And the open conversation is going to say it.
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:17.280
And at this point in life, what are the appropriate times and places to do that?
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:24.800
Maybe it's not at the airplane, maybe it is at school, maybe it is at church, maybe it's not at the grocery store.
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:27.360
So to have some of those conversations.
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:36.559
We talked a lot about casual approach and how that comes into the sanctuary at church or at the worship space.
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:48.960
I think there's also an aspect of it to talk about reverence for the creation that God has and for fellow created beings.
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:59.280
So not that we're going to treat created beings, other humans, with the same respect that we would toward God because they are not holy.
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:22.400
But I think there's reason to look at them and see, like Psalm 24, 1 says, the earth is the Lord's and everything in it, or we can talk about how humans were created in God's image, and and then murder is wrong because of the that fact that humans are created in God's image.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:37.039
And how there might be some reason to say not only do we want to approach the Lord with reverence and respect, but let's also approach his creation and the people he created with respect.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:43.280
Yeah, it reminds me of a similar passage to things we've suggested with JM chapter 3, verse 9.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:49.519
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who have been made in God's likeness.
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:56.079
And so it's inappropriate to treat humans with this disrespect.
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.119
Why?
00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.679
Because they've been made in the image of God.
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.400
And so there's a kind of a long-standing conversation about uh how do you speak about the image of God?
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:26.880
And in one sense, you you need to have it be a little more open to just this idea that humans have this element that makes them different than the animals there that merits respect for their life, for the way you treat them.
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:30.239
And and so we don't need to get into a whole conversation of that today.
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:37.440
But one thing that we we can say is because humans are created in the image of God, made in God's likeness, we have to show a proper respect to humans.
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:41.760
So, like you said, not worshiping them, but respect to your your fellow human.
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:52.480
And so the this could be in the way that you interact with others, but certainly it's in the way that you speak towards them, and the things that you you do to them.
00:51:52.559 --> 00:52:00.239
Some things are inappropriate to do to other people because that's sinning against them, and and they were created in God's likeness.
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:04.559
Yeah, and I there's a huge news story.
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:09.760
We don't need to get into the details of it because they're rather disturbing.
00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:21.920
But the kind of the premise of the conversation is what constitutes consent in a sexual relationship.
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:36.800
And first I want to say like it breaks our heart and it breaks God's heart when people are abused and harmed, and they're they're gonna need to have their conversations of due process and things like this.
00:52:37.119 --> 00:53:00.079
But in connection to all of these things, the the lack of respect to that people have for their own bodies and their own lives as those who are created by God and humanity created in his image, and then also the lack of respect to have for a fellow human being.
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:29.679
Just again, I don't want to get into the nature of the these acts that happen, but to to recognize as Christians uh that things like this, whether it was within a consenting relationship or what many people believe it was not, should be disturbing.
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:35.679
And we should say, is this how people are to treat other people?
00:53:36.320 --> 00:54:00.960
And there'd be a strong argument to say no, that that is one who has been created by the Lord of Lords, the God of gods, and he created humanity in his image, and we want to encourage not just Christians, but all people to treat them with human decency and with proper respect.
00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:05.840
Yeah, so it kind of reminds me of 1 Corinthians 6, uh, verses 18 and 19.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:14.400
Flee from sexual immorality, all other sins a person commits outside of all sorry, all other sins a person commits are outside the body.
00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:22.480
But whoever sins sexually sins against their own body, do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you've received from God?
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:26.880
You are not your own, you were bought at a price, therefore honor God with your bodies.
00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:50.239
And so that one sense, like you're not showing proper respect to the body that God has given to you, um, especially as a believer, as you have God dwelling within you, bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit, so how inappropriate it is to use your body in the septual way, but then also to treat someone else that way.
00:54:50.480 --> 00:55:16.239
Like you said, whether it is uh and so detaching maybe from this conversation of that specific instance, but whether it is consensual or not, is still degrading of the other individual to uh participate in sexual actions in a in a way that are contrary to God's design, that is not showing that proper respect.
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:33.440
Um this is a person who's who is going to be one flesh with with someone else, Lord willing, and and to sin against them and to participate in that sin is is wrong, and it's not a proper respect for your fellow human.
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:54.079
And so, like there's a lot that we could say about this, but like you said, I I don't think there's that proper respect, reverence for for others in our culture today, whether it's sexual sin or if it's just the like with James 3, the way people talk to each other and talk about one another.
00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:02.400
And and so I think a connected conversation is just the proliferation of foul language in our culture.
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:06.320
And often foul language is at the expense of others.
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:10.559
And and so again, that's directly against James chapter three.
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:12.559
It's not showing a proper respect.
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:22.079
God did not give you your tongue to curse and and speak poorly of other people, but to pray praise and give thanks and to be a benefit and a blessing to them.
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:31.039
And and so this would be another way where our culture has just become more quote unquote casual, is the abundance of profane language.
00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:41.760
And again, so well, just because our culture is more comfortable and speaking in ways that were once viewed as wrong, does that mean that the Christian should just go along with it?
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:43.760
Well, of course not.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:56.000
Yeah, and it doesn't just have to be through profane or obscene language, but it can be the absence of respectful language or even respectful actions.
00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:04.480
And maybe maybe my thoughts are too informed by being on the internet as I'm thinking through some of these things.
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:16.719
But I remember seeing a video where there was a woman who was kind of like gesturing at the camera because there was a man holding an umbrella over himself and not over her.
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:23.519
And then the comment section is things like, is she bothering you, King, or something like that?
00:57:23.840 --> 00:58:00.239
But to the the loss of the common respect and approach to life in a mannerly way that our society has, I think should bother us as Christians when there are men who uh don't think about holding the door open for women and children, where there are men who would grab an umbrella for themselves and see a woman standing in the rain and and not hold the umbrella over her, or even quiet what was that?
00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:03.519
Or don't give up their seat on a bus or whatever.
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:14.000
Yeah, they're sitting in the bus and they see a woman who's who's standing and not give up their seat for her, or even like how people interact with each other.
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:32.000
I there's some things that point at the service industry and the lack of like the respectful approach to employees who who uh don't talk to people properly, don't give them eye contact, don't approach them with that proper respect.
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:37.199
But then the the people who are customers not saying please or thank you.
00:58:37.440 --> 00:59:06.639
I think there are these are things that we as Christians would rightly have some frustration over and say that maybe this casual approach, and maybe casual is not the proper word anymore, this disrespectful approach in society has gone too far, and something that we would want to write and say, No, I I want to show this mannerly approach, like young men.
00:59:06.800 --> 00:59:13.440
If you see a woman standing in the rain and you have an umbrella, like let her use your umbrella.
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:21.280
You see a woman standing in the bus and you're sitting down, give up your seat for her.
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:35.280
People who work in the service industry, show mannerly interaction with others, people who are buying at the stores, say please and thank you.
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:47.199
And I think this really brings it back to Colossians 3, 22 to 24, with an acknowledgement that although we are dealing with humans, we're not just dealing with humans.
00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:50.719
We're serving the Lord in these things that we do.
00:59:50.880 --> 01:00:01.360
Uh so as you look around and you see that that woman who's caught in the rain, who needs an umbrella, it's like I'm not just doing it for her, but I'm doing it for the Lord.
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.679
If you give up your seat, I'm not just doing it for that person, I'm doing it for the Lord.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:20.800
You're mannerly in your interactions, I'm not just doing it for this person, I'm doing it for the Lord, not as a people pleaser, but I'm I'm doing this because I want to show reverence, respect, and thanksgiving to the God who's done so much to save me.
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:21.519
Yeah.
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:29.920
So one of the thoughts that's maybe connected with some of these like chivalry ideas and that being gone, is that there's a reaction to feminism.
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:41.599
And it's like, well, the respect that men try to show women was completely um forgotten about and taken for granted, and then actually manipulated and made it into a bad thing.
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:54.000
And and so then you have this just frankly dishonest presentation of what life was like in the 1950s, that apparent that somehow claimed that like basically every woman was being abused or something.
01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:55.280
That's just not true.
01:00:55.519 --> 01:01:08.559
And so, but you have people who believe these lies, and then you have that reaction from like the manosphere or whatever against feminism who would say, like, yeah, like why would you do that for a woman?
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:11.760
They're not going to respect you, so why would you do that in response?
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:17.840
But this idea of kind of like men um looking out for women is biblical.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:21.119
First Peter 3, verse 7 comes to mind.
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:31.280
Husbands, in the same way, be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:36.880
And so that word weaker partner, weaker vessel, isn't how it's sometimes translated.
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:39.360
People have kind of struggled.
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:42.320
Like, what are you supposed to do with that phrase?
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:58.880
But in one sense, like it might just be a physically weaker idea that that we are willing to admit according to God's word and and just apparent apparent realities, things we can see with our eyes, that men are bigger and stronger than women.
01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:03.119
And so men should protect and and and help them.
01:02:03.280 --> 01:02:21.199
And and so we our our reaction to like maybe a feminism that didn't appreciate that or even calls it a bad thing, like um patriarchal or chauvinistic, misogynistic, isn't to stop doing what is good and right, but to continue to do what is good and right.
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:23.920
We don't do things for the thanks of this world, anyways.
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:33.280
And so to encourage people, like, yeah, keep doing those chivalrous things because that that is that unique position that God has given given to men.
01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:47.360
But then also this idea that you're talking about of like just continue to do the pleas and the thank you, like these different cultural trends of niceties or politeness developed for a reason.
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:49.599
And the reason seems legitimate.
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:51.119
So let's keep doing these things.
01:02:51.199 --> 01:03:10.079
Like it drives people nuts when they can't seem to talk to a customer service employee because they're wearing airpods while they're working, and it's like it it like I I think uniformly everyone says that's bad.
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:17.119
Like water cultures that happen in like the fast food or customer service realm is a bad thing.
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:26.880
So, as Christians, let's keep doing these cultural practices that that have been passed down because they're helpful to our neighbor.
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:36.400
And I think one more aspect of this was we're really bringing out like service to the Lord by serving others.
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:48.079
And I think another aspect of it that we can think about is the incarnation of that our Lord Jesus Christ, he took flesh and his incarnation uplifted this human experience.
01:03:48.320 --> 01:04:06.719
So then, and to think like if God would have this wonderful love for humanity, that he himself would humble himself to live in human flesh and live in this world, there is an uplifting of it in that sense.
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:21.679
And so then that helps us approach as well as we think about that immense love that God has for people, so much so that he would live for them in this world and then ultimately to die for them on the cross.
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:34.400
So Jesus being our brother shouldn't be just a thing to bring Jesus down to our level, that we can flippantly approach him like buddy Jesus.
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:55.840
But rather, Jesus being our brother elevates us in all humanity, as the one who sits on the throne is our our brother, the one who has experiential knowledge to know what it is to be to be one of us who uh defeated in death and the devil and now uh rules all things for the good of his people.
01:04:55.920 --> 01:05:06.800
And so it's an elevation of humanity, and so now we see all all people in a different light and understanding Christ took on flesh.
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:12.719
Christ cared so much about flesh that he took on flesh, died, and rose.
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:17.199
And so these bodies will be raised and made glorious.
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:33.199
And so this this changes the way that we impact that we view our fellow, it impacts the way we view our fellow human and that we view our fellow believer, and therefore us to show a proper respect for our fellow human.
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:52.239
Yeah, yeah, that's the huge thing we want to drive home, is the reason behind the desire to show reverence, respect, is it's ultimately in the gospel of Christ Jesus and what our God has done, the holiness of our God who comes to us in his gracious presence to be our savior.
01:05:52.480 --> 01:06:08.320
And then as we have conversations like with a question like, are Christians too casual to recognize there is difficulty in this that we don't want to hold on to cultural expectations that are no longer there.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:14.159
We don't want to create uh necessarily expectations that someone would have never thought of.
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:23.360
We don't want to approach someone, tell them like, hey, you're being irreverent because you didn't do this thing that you've never experienced before.
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:33.039
But we also don't want to flatten this out too much and say, like, our words and actions, our dress don't matter either.
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:55.840
But instead encourage Christians to contemplate these things for me and my culture and context, how can I demonstrate reverence and respect for my God, not just in the worship service, but throughout my entire life as I live to serve Him and His creation.