Why Do I Keep Falling Back Into Old Patterns? | Part 1 with NuriEdge

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Have you ever walked away from a conversation and thought, why did I react like that?
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I know better.
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Or had one comment make you question something you were completely confident about 10 minutes earlier.
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Maybe you thought, I'm not as capable as I thought, or I'm going to mess this up for sure.
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I'm not good enough.
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We can do the work, learn the tools, change the behavior, and build the confidence.
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And then real life happens.
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So why do old behaviors, fears, and beliefs about ourselves come rushing back when we're stressed, exhausted, or under pressure?
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And more importantly, how do we find our way back?
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That's what we're getting into today.
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My guests are Mariana Merritt and Lacey Matthews, co-founders of NuriEdge.
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Marianna brings a background in applied social psychology and therapeutic support, while Lacey brings years of experience in technology and product development.
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Together, they're exploring how neuroscience, human behavior, and technology can help us access what we already know when we need it most.
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This conversation was so good that I didn't want to cut it down just to fit a normal episode.
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So I'm bringing it to you in two parts.
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Today, we're going to understand why this happens.
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Tomorrow, we're going deeper into what can help us sustain change when real life happens, including how NuriEdge may help bridge that gap between knowing what to do and actually being able to access it in the moment.
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Marianna Lacey, welcome to Delay the Binge.
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Thank you for having us.
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Yes, it's a privilege and a pleasure to be here.
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Well, I am super excited because it's right in my area of research and what I'm looking into and what I'm trying to learn more about.
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Before we get into NeuroEdge, I want people to know the two women behind it.
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What drew each of you to this work personally?
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Was there something in your own life or career that made you especially sensitive to what happens when people are carrying more than anyone else can see?
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Mariana, I'm gonna actually have you jump in first because we came together more on a different project, on a different product, um, and then found ourselves here based on some things that Mariana had actually kind of imparted to me, wisdom-wise.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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Pam, I feel so at home in your podcast introduction because this is the space that I um have hinged my life's work and curiosities around too.
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Um, so my background is in applied social psychology, the human aspects.
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I wonder a lot around what are the things that that people need um in supportive environments?
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What are the things that we're kind of grasping for constantly and how how does that interplay?
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So I love that we're here and that we're here for this conversation.
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Um a little bit about what what drew us to middle managers um in a target specifically, is we know that all humans have needs and all humans deserve support.
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But man, there is this pain point that is um kind of precious.
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When you look at middle managers, they hold this space of uh isolation almost.
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They have a team that they lead that they belong to, but that isn't quite their level of support.
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And then right above them is C-suite, which they're reporting to.
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But again, it's kind of a mismatch.
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They don't really belong in that space either.
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And so you have middle managers who are holding the pressures of I want to support and lead my team really well.
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I report to these people at the top who kind of understand or can be compassionate, but also there are gaps in our existence.
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And so um we really, Lacey and I can get into it a little, a little more later on too.
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But I think that um thinking specifically around the pain points for middle managers and how do we join people who are leading teams, leading themselves, maybe feeling a little bit on an island of um people, others in the company might understand what I'm going through, but might not specifically be on that very same journey with me and wanting to make available some direct supports there.
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So um I'm obsessed with humans.
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And I think that um the the passion of this of Nuri Edge and getting to build this with Lacey has been our shared passion for how do we create supports that are meaningful, effective, and applicable in daily life.
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Well, I have to tell you guys before you talk with us, Lacey, is I have never felt so seen in my life.
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Most of the corporate jobs I've had are was being the middle manager.
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And we're the middle woman.
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But we are overworked because we're in between two very different worlds, but trying to balance it all.
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And so I'm so excited to dig deep into this because you're finally giving us middle managers a voice.
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So that's amazing.
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So, Lacey, tell us a little bit about yourself.
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Yeah, so I come from a technology building background, um, a lot of years of project management, product design, um, bringing to life other folks' ideas.
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And and originally Mariana and I met working on a different project, different products, some ed tech focused things.
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Um, and as we got into it, um, we were just kind of talking about like, how is it that some people show up so well every time?
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Why are some people unfazed?
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And for me, I was like, why am I not that person?
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And, you know, we're building out our team, we're bringing on developers, we're doing all these things and realizing that it was like, what is the difference between those folks who seem to walk into the room?
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Amy Cuddy uh has a book called uh presence.
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Like they come in and their presence is like calm and we all kind of can regulate around it.
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And why is that?
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And I'd always honestly thought that that was like, well, it's a personality trait that maybe I just wasn't blessed with.
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Um, you know, I fret, I get like overwhelmed.
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Um, and as you find yourself leading, you're in this interesting spot where it's like, I need to guide a team forward.
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So I can't really share necessarily when I'm freaking out.
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Um, and so as we're building this other project, I kept asking Mariana, like, how do you show up like this?
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What how come you're not also freaking out?
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And we got into these amazing discussions about how the brain works, what is your nervous system?
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What is neuroscience?
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Um, you know, what are the things that we can learn, we can build in ourselves, but also like the biohacks of we were just talking about before something stressful, taking your shoes off and walking around in the grass, um, how we breathe, how we respond to something, the way that we choose to say, like, well, I'm going to, you know, pick this up like a piece of cake and devour it permanently, or I'm gonna look at it and say, like, hey, I have, I can take a breath and say I have choices here.
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Um, not that devouring the cake is a problem because I'm a fan.
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Um, but it really changed something in me.
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It felt like I was given power back to say, hey, you know what?
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Life has pressures on all of us, no matter what you do.
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Like new pressures come, new stressors, unless you lock yourself in a cave and never talk to another human, and even that is his own pressure.
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Like life will continue putting different pressures on us as we, as we learn to grow and move into new experiences.
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And we have ways to say, I can keep myself as regulated as possible, learning about just even like what does it mean if we're dysregulated?
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It's that feeling when our body is so stressed out that suddenly our normal reactions aren't things we can tap into anymore.
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I've lost my prefrontal cortex and now I'm in fight or flight, and I have to operate, I have to keep moving forward.
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How do I get back there?
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How do I get back to not firing off that email that I shouldn't send, not blurting out thoughts that I have in the moment?
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Um, and and so Mariana and I kept on the side having these conversations that were so enlightening to me and so empowering for me that it truly has changed my life.
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And we realized, like, hey, how do we give this to everyone?
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What's a way to serve that up?
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And and then when we think about it in a professional context, you have to get to the top before coaching's available.
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You have to learn the hard way over and over and over until you get a coach who will hopefully untrain some of that stuff.
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Uh, and so we built Nurry Edge to to somewhat kind of democratize that, to make it available at any level, um, in in terms of the just, hey, I'm walking into a scary meeting and I need to recenter myself in the next two minutes.
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Or, hey, I need a long conversation about how do I debrief on what just happened.
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Um, but but through all of that, I realized my life had been drastically changed, my parenting, my partnership, who I am when I show up at work, because I do have choices.
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There are, there, all of that power, like I said, can come back.
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And so we realized in this brand new era of AI, we can provide a coach that anyone can access, that can be there in the moment with safety guards.
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So it's not, you know, GPT going off the rails and hallucinating.
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But we can really make that available.
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Um, and so between Marianne and I, we were able to bring this like the technology and the science together to say, hey, we can target the folks that are kind of trapped the most, um, who feel like, hey, I have to lead, I have to co-regulate a team that's freaking out.
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Um, but I can't always share transparently.
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And and sometimes sharing up doesn't make my leadership feel great.
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And so, um, so that's really, I think, how we came together in this was a shared need to understand something that unlocks us as humans, and then say, like, hey, we need to make this available.
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Like, we need to give this uh everywhere we can.
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Um, and so that's really how we how we kind of came together in this wild ride.
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Absolutely amazing.
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I can't tell you how excited I am because you are combining technology and humans and emotions and behaviors.
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And if you think about it, it is a pattern.
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I mean, what better thing for AI to look at and decipher and help?
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I'm excited about it because a lot of people are afraid of this type of integration.
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But I think it's amazing that you guys have found a way to make it work, especially for the middle woman.
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Now, in this moment of technology advancements, um, one of the things that I'm most proud of as a team is that we really challenge ourselves to think through what is a tool that can actually be really useful, right?
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There are a million tools out there.
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And even though I get really excited about tech tools, I don't want to learn how to use all of them.
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And so our drive is constantly can Nuri Edge be the tool that people reach for that actually provides that meaningful, quick support that gets you back to being your best self.
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And so I'm really proud of the way that we challenge ourselves as a company to think through um what are we bringing to market?
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And is this something that in just a normal everyday life um someone reaches for and gets the support and keeps on moving?
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Uh, as opposed to, I don't know, there there are some, there are so many fun tools out there, uh, but you can get lost in an adoption cycle of I now have 3,000 widgets on my computer that I don't know how to use.
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You're talking to a web designer.
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I know widgets.
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Wow, let me just touch this just a little bit before we move on.
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So you both both are from such different backgrounds.
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And to find one another and to bring both of your strengths together to create this amazing neural edge is just incredible.
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And and I say we don't meet people by mistake.
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I think it's ultimately planned for us to come together.
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And so I'm very excited about what you guys are doing.
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What did y'all say that?
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Yep, this is the person I want to build something with.
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Did you know immediately, or did y'all just start talking?
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And it it was chemistry.
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We, you know what, we met, like I said, on a different project.
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And and as we went through things, it was sort of like the the ways that Mariana would talk about, well, there's a better way to handle this stressor.
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There's a different way to think about this, or you know what, we were trying to solve a problem.
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And I think if we breathe for a minute, we'll give space for our brains to get back to solutioning.
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And I just kept being drawn to that and being like, I know we're supposed to talk about work, but can you tell me more about what you just did?
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Like, why was that so magical for me?
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How come I feel like my head's back on string?
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And so a lot of it was, you know, getting brought together on a project, but but seeing the ways that we can approach things.
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And then, and then I'll be putting words into your mouth that I hope are true, Mariana, but that then my ability to be like, wait a minute, we can make that happen.
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We could build a thing.
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We could this doesn't have to just be one conversation between you and I.
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This could be a conversation replicated in so many different spaces.
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We've we've originally, you know, we targeted first kind of middle management because that's where we felt like we were.
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It was working with what we knew, right?
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Um, but but both of us, I will say, like our kids use the tool, our spouses, you know, it it's great in a context where work puts in unique kind of pressure on us.
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Um, we've got um, we had some feedback recently from a woman who was just saying she was like, I'm I'm in this really toxic work environment, and my leadership is very, by choice, kind of militant and and permanently toxic, and I can't get out of it.
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And I love my job and my team, but this is a really hard place to be when I know that I can't change up.
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All I can do is change me and how I show up for my team, how I help them regulate and say, like, hey, yes, this is hard.
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But we could do these hard things and we can still deliver.
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And and she was just talking about like now with Nuri Ed, like we come into meetings and we all take a minute, we regulate together, then we cope, like we talk about like we're pack animals and and how I influence Mariana, how Mariana influences me, how we, you know, even in a a call like this where we're sharing stories, we could get terrible and negative and and really complain about things.
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And Pam, you'd probably walk away like, oh, I gotta go palate cleanse, like I need to like it's easy to get into that.
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Um, and so she was really talking about just recognizing the ways that we can bring ourselves back to our prefrontal part, our best thinking, our most regulated self.
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And then that influences a whole team was really something that we we felt like we kept doing on the side.
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Um, like I said, I get to be like, why is this working?
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What is happening?
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How can I feel better?
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Um, and we just needed to, needed to kind of bring that to life.
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Um, and so it was really fun to be able to say, well, like, wait a minute, I know how to do that.
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I know how to build things.
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Um, and so it's been this really fun initially, like just some passion thoughts and ideation that has grown into something that we have gotten to see change some lives, which is phenomenal.
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Phenomenal.
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And it literally does take a village, personal or business.
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It takes a village and connecting and just working as a team.
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Mariana, you shared something in your questionnaire for the podcast that I I've been thinking a lot about.
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You said near edge really became real when you realized the managers you'd spent your career trying to support weren't struggling because they lacked information.
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They were overwhelmed, dysregulated, and often completely alone in the moments that mattered most.
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So can you take me back to that realization?
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What were you seeing?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um, of course, a couple of NDAs later.
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Um, I had done some pretty, so uh part of my life was doing, I love doing trainings.
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I love professional development.
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The nerd in me is alive and well.
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And um, I was doing pretty intensive trainings for a company, three days online, Zoom, three eight-hour back-to-back days of uh leadership development training was just part of this sequence that I was uh tasked with moving folks through.
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Um, so I knew well that they were getting intense training, they were getting content.
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And I don't think that in this day and age, many of us can claim that we just don't have access to information.
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Um, I knew they wanted to do well.
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They were showing up to the trainings, they were participating, they were giving honest reflections, being vulnerable.
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And then I would do one-on-one um executive coaching sessions with them.
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And what I kept hearing was that, you know, they were active participants in my live trainings, they were trying to implement in between.
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They kind of geared up for battle with all the good intentions, and then an old pattern would take over.
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Um, and even though they had pre-planned to turn left, we are creatures of habits.
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And so something would happen and they would turn right and they would repeatedly come back with some version of, I don't know why this keeps happening.
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Um, and so recognizing that that I think all layers of support, if they are helpful to the person, carry on, continue with that, right?
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I love executive coaching.
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And I think if you are a person who has access to an executive coach, do that.
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Um, but what I felt was a gap that we are able to address with Nuri Edge is that when I talked to someone, it was always after the fact.
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We were always kind of doing an autopsy or reviewing.
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Well, walk me back through the conversation.
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Well, what happened when?
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Well, let's dissect.
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So they looked at you this way and you interpreted it this way, and your inference led to you bringing this type of energy to it.
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Everything is a hindsight reflection.
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And sometimes our brains really struggle with that type of learning.
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Sometimes you can learn from hindsight.
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Um, but I think the power of what we're able to leverage with AI on demand is that I can preemptively have a session with Nuri and say, I'm about to have a really hard conversation with Lacey.
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Um, in previous hard conversations, I've experienced this.
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I'm anticipating that.
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And then Nuri can walk me through, here's how we're gonna do it different this time.
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I think the other thing that is really um wonderful as a gift in Nuri Edge is that it gives you insights into your own patterns.
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You know, uh Jihari's window of what is known to us, what is unknown to us.
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There's always a little bit tucked away in our brain, maybe information that our brain is trying to protect us from, maybe the way we see ourselves and who we want to be.
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Uh, and so I think having a safe space where you aren't meeting with your supervisor, you aren't saying, hey, coach me on this, right?
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We're we're still humans.
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Humans want to protect our ego.
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We want to protect ourselves.
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It's really hard to see all of it.
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But the power of AI is that we know it's not judging us.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.440
It doesn't have that capacity.
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:03.839
It's a safe space, truly.
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:11.039
And so we're seeing that users are feeling very free to be able to say, I think I was rude.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:12.799
I think my tone was off.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.480
I think I did this.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:21.839
Um, and and have that space to analyze in a different way than maybe they would with a one-on-one coach.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.960
Yeah, it's definitely bringing on the awareness.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.680
So these weren't necessarily people who didn't know what to do.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:35.839
They may have known exactly, well, most managers do, they know exactly what they're supposed to do.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:45.119
What happens inside us when we're stressed, activated, triggered that makes it harder to access what we already know?
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.680
In part it's a bandwidth issue, right?
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:50.319
Um all of us have felt that before.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.640
We're in our best selves.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:22:05.599
If I have slept eight hours, fed myself nutritiously, gone out and exercised, have Had a loving engagement with someone who's important to me in my life and then show up for work.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.319
I have a little more bandwidth for the annoyances of my regular work life.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:18.559
But in reality, most of us are coming to work saying, I had a crap sleep last night.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.960
My child was a little bit jerky in the morning.
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:24.960
My partner irritated me.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:26.720
Traffic was a wreck.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:32.000
And now I'm here late and I have a meeting that I didn't have time to prep for.
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.480
In theory, right?
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.160
Yes, in theory.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:48.799
Well, this is where both of your work became so personal for me because delay the binge came out of my own experience with behavior change.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:59.359
I've made tremendous changes in my life, but one of the biggest things I've learned is that making the change and maintaining the change is two different things.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.279
And I've had those moments of thinking, but I know what to do.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.519
Why am I doing the thing I know doesn't serve me?
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.440
And so for a long time, I interpreted it as failure.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:24.240
And I think a lot of our listeners will recognize that, whether their pattern is food, work, scrolling, drinking, people pleasing, or something completely different.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:31.039
Lacey, what would you want someone like me to understand about what's actually happening in those moments?
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.759
I think for me, a lot of it, kind of like Brianna was saying with bandwidth, we think about resources and like gas in the tank.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.759
When you're when your tank is full, you know I can, I can go far, I can get where I need to go, I can do all of these things.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:51.359
Um, but as that tank empties, our ability to say, like, well, I could push the pedal, I can do this, like that starts to dwindle.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:58.240
We can't access those best parts of our brain that say, like, you have this information and you're going to turn left.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.400
Like when the battery is too low, we fall back on pattern and prediction.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:13.039
So we think about coming into something of like, hey, the last time I was in a situation like this, I got my hand slapped, I got yelled at, or I didn't speak up for myself and I got steamrolled.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:19.200
And so our brain starts to say, like, well, hey, the way we know how to move forward is we predict based on our experiences.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:24.559
And if those experiences have taught us something and if that gets repeated, we build this loop.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:33.519
I think in listening some to a lot of your your previous episodes, Pam, I've loved what you've talked about, about the way we we can break those patterns.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:41.039
But our brain tries to say, if I have limited resources, I can best use them by saying, Well, I know the pattern here, I can predict it.
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:41.519
Yeah.
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.400
And so, because we don't want to use it all up saying, Let me figure it out again and again.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:48.559
And so we we try to fast track.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.559
We, we, our brain gives hacks, sort of like, oh, I know this loop, turn right.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.119
I know this neighborhood, I could drive it in my sleep.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.880
And it gets us back to that sane destination we didn't want to be.
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:04.319
And then we go into even worse of like, well, shoot, this is the only way I know how to go.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.720
I'm never gonna be able to go a different direction.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.680
And that's just not the truth.
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:24.400
We can absolutely break those cycles, but we do it by saying, well, let me, let me pause, let me refuel, let me get back to a place where I can say, you know what, I have the battery power to look at the map again and say, like, hey, there's a totally different route.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:25.920
Let me try that.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.400
You know, when we are at our best, we're more willing to say, I'll try a different way.
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:35.039
And despite having known that there's eight routes to get to the same destination, right?
00:25:35.200 --> 00:26:02.559
Um, and so I think for me, one of the biggest things has been recognizing like what are the patterns I fall on and what are the easy things that I can do to break those, even if that's just, you know, some box breathing and taking a lot of breaths before I blurt out the thoughts that didn't need to come out that keep getting me in hot water, or before I fire off that email, before I believe what I am interpreting.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:11.200
You know, for me, one of the things that that has really, I've really benefited is that I have a tendency to interpret that people believe the worst of me.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:16.960
I if I didn't bring my best self, then I'm like, oh, that's the only thing they know of Lacey is her worst self.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:18.799
And, you know, now I'll never get out of that.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.640
I could never change their perspective.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.240
Um, and that's so untrue, but it's so limiting it as well.
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:29.359
You know, we get trapped thinking, well, if that's what everyone thinks, then I might as well stop fighting it.
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:39.519
Um, and so I think when we when we look at the the loops that we have, the patterns, and start believing that's our our only way and we predict from there.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:47.519
Um that's been life-changing for me to realize, you know, it's it's not a major overhaul either.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.039
It's one small choice at a time, it's one deep breath at a time.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:56.160
You know, I don't have to change the world every day to say, like, hey, I showed up a little better.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.279
And then guess what?
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:58.720
I'm more resilient.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.799
It's it's like a it's you know, you go to the gym to build strength.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:05.759
We can do things that build that same resilience.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:14.799
Um, I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine of probably 20 years who lives in Scotland and was visiting, and we found out we were near each other.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:23.119
Um, and you know, when you when you meet up with a friend that you've known forever, one of the things that you do is like, remember this time you get into like reminiscing mode.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.640
Um, you know, we talked for 20 minutes about what are you doing now?
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.559
And then we talked for an hour about, do you remember that one time when we did this weird thing?
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.200
Or do you remember this night that this silly thing happened?
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:43.119
Um, and in an off-handed conversation, he said something about like, you know, you experienced this and so did my sister, but you were more resilient, and so this happened.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.799
And I was blown away because it I was like, you think that I'm resilient?
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:54.720
It was uh such a deep compliment to me and such a like, I don't know that I think that.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:08.480
And I realized how much of what we what we try to predict, what we try to think of others thinking of us, of of ours, it's it's such a silly construct because it's all it's all built on just the small choices.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.599
And I was like, I guess, you know, I'll I'll wear that hat.
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.039
I could totally, maybe I am actually resilient.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.599
How did I not notice this of myself?
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:25.519
Um, and and so it we we go through so many of our patterns trying to predict what we are interpreting.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:32.799
And and our interpretation can be so off base based on, you know, did I even have enough sleep or a good snack?
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:42.240
Um and so for me, that has just been eye-opening and life-changing and has really shifted how I can get up every day and start again and be like, that's okay.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.799
It's none of this is a destination.
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:49.680
Tomorrow, life's gonna give new pressures and a new opportunity to try a different way.
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:56.960
Um, but when we start to recognize that we don't have to keep repeating those patterns, that we are not forced into that.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:01.279
We can change our mind, our thinking, our life.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.680
The world is a whole different place.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.640
Um it's a different oyster, right?
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:16.880
I think the really exciting part of what Lacey's bringing up too is that it doesn't even have to be that big, exactly what she said.
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:23.359
The neuroscience of this allows it to happen in just micro moments.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:24.960
You don't have to.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:26.240
And I love therapy.
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.599
My background is in uh therapeutic supports also.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:36.720
I do it all, but you don't have to have an hour session every time you get dysregulated.
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.720
I don't think you could live if you did, if you're a regular person like us.
00:29:42.240 --> 00:30:17.599
Um it can, the neuroscience allows us to enter that moment of pause as you talk about, to be able to say, like, hey, if I just give myself 30 seconds of an empowering mantra as opposed to a defeating fearful thought, if I give myself a minute of standing with myself and saying, I'm gonna breathe through this before I respond or react, things shift in those 30 seconds, in a minute, in a three-minute counseling session.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:27.519
Um whether you have access to a full-blown therapeutic session with someone, um, or whether you can reach for a support.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.559
I think there's so much hope in like, hey, we don't have to be driven by our humanity.
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.240
We can get back in the driver's seat at any point.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:31:00.079
And I love that so much because I always wish more people understood the nervous system and what y'all are doing is putting something into place so that they can educate themselves, they can learn and understand that, okay, this is an old pattern showing up and causing this, and I'm not gonna beat myself up about it.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:11.039
Because I I am a stickler about maintenance, about sustaining any change we put into place for work, for our lives, personally, whatever it is.
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:18.000
But I mean, even now, as much as I know, and I'm still trying to learn, I find that I sometimes slide backwards.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.480
The old behavior will show itself.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:20.960
Yeah.
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.519
But just becoming aware of it.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.640
And so then I get can give myself a little more grace.
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.640
I don't beat myself up so much.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:29.279
Yeah.
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:34.000
Man, shame people up in ways, right?
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:42.559
Shame calls us into shrinking instead of staying in that growth mindset and being able to recognize that that it's okay.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:44.559
It's okay that you get dysregulated.
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.440
You're going to.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:47.440
It's okay that you get flustered.
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:54.160
You give yourself the tools and the space and grace to say, okay, that has happened.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:55.440
Let me bring it back.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:57.839
Let me bring it back to what I want to be.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:05.599
Um, I think the brilliance of Lacey's brain, uh, let me guess over my co-founder a little bit.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:34.240
Uh she's able to take something that has been exclusive to C-suite, or maybe has been exclusive to those of us who have had the privilege of studying neuroscience, but I know that's everyone, and make it accessible in an app that's really intuitive in a platform that feels really comfortable in a way that breaks down the nervous system and neuroscience that anyone can understand.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:45.519
I don't have to be a brain scientist to understand that if I give oxygen to my brain, she'll be able to function better, right?
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:52.000
Um, but it is the practices that we have been able to embed in the technology.
00:32:52.240 --> 00:33:09.759
Um, so there's uh hundreds of scientifically backed research-backed strategies that a user will get walked through so that you aren't just saying, hey, calm down, you're upset, calm down.
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:11.599
That doesn't help any of us.
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:24.720
Um but if you really learn that this specific way of inhaling for this long, holding for this long, releasing your breath for this long actually changes your brain chemistry.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:29.519
That's a gift you can give to yourself anywhere from then on.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:43.359
So I think um the marriage of making the science accessible with the AI technology that that Lacey's been able to help us do literally blows me away every day.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:50.400
Well, it blows me away because now with this whole thing in place, you can why did I do that again?
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:52.640
You're not gonna ask that anymore, right?
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.880
You're gonna ask what was happening before I did that.
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:01.680
It helps with the curiosity, but it also encourages you to be curious.
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:02.960
It's a reminder.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:07.920
Curiosity is is critical in understanding your own nervous system and patterns.
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.920
That's how you figure it out.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:17.920
Yeah, one of the things that we we built into the tool, or there's two things that are kind of my my favorite little gems.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:24.000
One is just at the end, you know, you can you can go to any AI and be like, hey, I'm having this problem, what do I do?
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.599
And and you might get some great answers and you might get some weird stuff, right?
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.920
Umri is very specifically trained with a lot of really good guardrails.
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.960
Um, but at the end of your sessions, you'll get this great summary of like, hey, we talked about this.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.159
Here's some insights, here's some things you could go try.
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:50.559
So it's not just we had a conversation, see you later, um, but kind of walking away with like, oh, good, I have a little bit of a guidebook because I have the memory of a goldfish.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:35:02.960
Um, and and being able to look back and see some of those insights and reflections for me matters a lot because I can then go back to previous sessions and say, like, oh, I remember this one time, I was really mad about something.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.239
And I got insight.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:05.920
What did I unlock there?
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.519
What remind me again?
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:16.480
Um, and so I really love just the way that it can hold up that mirror, like just as a reminder, like this is the quick summary.
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.519
Like, here's your quick hits and your your greatest hits.
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:25.039
Um, but also Nuri allows you to practice, you know, you can get on there and say, well, let me role-play this.
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:27.599
I'm gonna go have this really difficult conversation.
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:48.159
I want to not just talk about how might I discuss this or what might be the reason the other person responds this way, but you could say, like, hey, my boss responds this way on a regular basis, and I need to talk about a raise that I want to get or a challenge that I'm having with a team member, but I don't want to look like I don't know what I'm doing.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:36:02.079
Um, and you can turn it on and use voice and role play and practice it out until you feel like it's not just an approach that I want to take, and I hope this goes well, but something that you're like, hey, I'm I'm I'm somewhat well-versed now.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:03.599
I've tried this.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.920
And then I took four deep breaths and I tried it again, and it went so differently.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:11.519
Um so I think there's some real-time time practice.
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:18.960
We have some great partners who are coaches who are like, hey, I just I want to be able to say, like, we had this great session until next time.
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:20.480
Could you practice these things?
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:25.760
Um, you know, one of our mantras is like, this is technology serving humans, not replacing humans.
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:30.480
Like we should be using the technology to help improve our lives.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:36.559
And we can do that in ways of like, now I won't spend hours making a PowerPoint, which I appreciate because I'm tiered with that.
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:44.079
But when we want to say, I'd like to elevate my own human interaction in it so that then I'm not replaced.
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:49.119
I'm not doing that, like our whole mission is to say, like, we want to elevate the human and never replace it.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:58.320
Um, so we love the idea of like partnering it with practice, with, with real coaches, with practicing coaches, with AI as the coach.
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:10.960
Um, but being able to say, like, you can put this into your real life experience so that when your brain tries to predict what's happening next, it has experience with the right thing as well, not just this has always gone wrong for me.
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.519
And I hope this new tool works.
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:23.119
Um, and so I think that's one of the things I'm most proud of that we have built into that is you can change your prediction by experiencing it a different way with Nuri.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:26.719
Um and and it's all like your own private little bubble.
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:27.760
It doesn't go anywhere.
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:32.559
Your boss never sees it, nobody ever hears it, it's never reported on.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.679
But you've had experience with how things could go right.
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.199
And that changes how your brain will predict the reality.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:47.039
Yeah, it sounds a lot like I don't know if you all have children, but we use the if-then approach, a little chart.
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:50.320
If you do this, then this is going to happen.
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:53.760
And it sounds like for adults, it's the if-then approach.
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:57.519
If this happens, then this will probably be the result.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.000
You don't know for sure, but it's like a a Rolodex in your brain.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:04.320
You're preparing and you're adding a new slip of card.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:09.840
If this ever happens or if this situation escalates to this, then this is how I'm going to handle it.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.760
And it's so much better on the brain.
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:14.000
The brain really likes when you prep it.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:15.280
Yes.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:15.679
Yeah.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:28.239
Well, and if if our brain tries to to to hack everything and and give us in the moment information based on what we've experienced, we do a really poor job if we've only had negative experiences.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:37.519
If all our practice came out poorly because we did it on the fly in the office or, you know, while we're trying to make dinner and get homework done with our kids and all those things.
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.960
How much better might we approach something if we got to practice and experience it going well?
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:44.960
If you could repeat that a few times.
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:48.480
So then your brain is like, oh, it it can go like this.
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.039
We predict the right outcomes.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:58.639
That's when we start turning left instead of right again, because we've taught it to predict the like the other possibilities, not just the worst.
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.679
I'm definitely a predict the worst kind of person.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:06.960
And so for me, it matters a lot to practice things going right because I'll believe that.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.800
I will practice what I what I've experienced.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:18.320
Um, and so if I can create an environment where things can go right, or or if they go sideways, I can be like, wait a minute, hold on.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:23.280
Why did that how can I feel so angry about that response?
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:28.320
Or I got really mad and I didn't want to, can we try this again?
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:35.119
We don't get that opportunity when you're in the moment with another human to be like, hey, um, erase, erase, erase, can we try that again?
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.920
Like, that's not how human battles go.
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:50.320
Um, but so if we can reinforce the right loop by practicing it and seeing that come out in the right ways, we're so much more likely to take that path or have the confidence to try it in real life.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:51.760
Oh my goodness.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:00.639
It's giving you the ability to regulate and to learn and to well, choose differently the next time.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:12.400
So if you do make a mistake, you know, it definitely encourages you to have some self-compassion because you know that next time this is the way it should be.
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:17.119
And it helps people so much before they get to that place of burnout.
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:23.599
We talk a lot about quiet depletion, which is where everything looks okay on the outside, but on the inside you're just exhausted.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:33.119
And that affects a large percentage of women, all people, but mostly women, because we're busy checking off all the boxes, doing all the things.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:43.039
I've heard you both speak on um burnout as a uh a nervous system problem rather than simply a willpower problem.
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:48.000
And I love that because I always say it's not a matter of discipline or willpower.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:41:00.719
But what do we misunderstand when we tell an exhausted, depleted person that they need more discipline, better time management, or simply just need to try harder?
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:15.599
Gosh, I think especially in this season of like we're in back to school season, and I think of women who are also mothering and working and all of the demands.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:20.559
And so, yeah, the quiet depletion should be expected.
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:27.760
Um we talk about co-regulation uh on teams and in homes, right?
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.639
So our nervous systems are contagious.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:37.840
Um, you get around somebody who's positive and you suddenly feel like, hey, the world isn't so terrible right now.
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:49.760
Uh also inversely, you get around somebody who's really negative and you're like, whoa, uh you feel that energetic shift of our nervous systems are contagious to each other.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:42:09.440
And so I think about the the pressures that women are carrying um in the workspace of co-regulating others, um, maybe being the person who is positive and optimistic and the go-getter and the doer and the high performer who gets rewarded with more work.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:27.519
Um, and then she goes home and is regulating children who have been at school and are tired and need nourishment and God forsaken math homework help and then right.
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:31.199
It almost sounds too familiar.
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.920
And then we wonder uh why burnout happens.
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:45.280
And so I think part of it is just creating the space to be honest about it, creating the space to say, hey, look, sometimes it's hard to be human.
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.119
Um, and that isn't because you're failing at it.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.800
It isn't because you need to quit your job immediately.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.599
Um, it isn't because you need to leave your children.
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.039
Please don't, right?
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:03.440
You sometimes things are just hard because the moment is in high demand.
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:11.280
Um, and so I think we do people a disservice when we say, like, well, you need to be more resilient.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:15.519
You need to, you know, maybe wake up earlier, maybe put in more time.
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:16.960
Um, don't you love that?
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:24.960
It's like those strategies guilt us into becoming quieter about how hard it is.
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:46.960
I think those demands of do more be better, whether they're told to us by an outside force or whether they're told to us from our internal voice of I should, um, the sense of I should be doing better, or like, why am I falling asleep at seven o'clock, or why am I lashing out at others or crying uncontrollably?
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.440
Those are all signals from your nervous system that you have maxed out.
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:57.360
And that I love, Pam, that you're bringing up self compassion, but you need to practice some self compassion.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.760
And I get it, we don't all have.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.159
I don't have a day tomorrow where I can say, forget all the meetings.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:08.480
I'm just gonna take a bubble bath and be kind to myself all day.
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.280
But I do have the micro moments, right?
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:23.199
I have the practices that I can implement for two minutes at a time that can help restore a little bit, put more gas in the tank, like Lacey was saying.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:34.639
And so I think one is giving people permission and the space to say, hey, I'm having a hard human moment or I'm feeling a little depleted right now.
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:35.840
I'm aware.
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:42.320
Two is encouraging them to think about what are the small ways that you can tend to your wellness?
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:44.960
What are the ways that you can ask for help?
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.239
What are the ways that you can be a little gentler with yourself?
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.480
What are the ways that you can own?
00:44:50.719 --> 00:45:03.840
Um, you know, let me get back to you in five minutes after I think through that, uh, as opposed to high demand meets higher demand and trying to rationalize a decision on the spot.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.760
There are ways that we can be a little kinder to ourselves.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:14.559
Um, that unless you are, I don't know, a surgeon, you probably have 30 seconds to spare.
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:28.239
Uh and so that space, the acknowledgement, the compassion to self, the micro practices, those are the things that make it more bearable.
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:36.079
Um, co-regulating with someone else, having the safe space to say, hey, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed right now.
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.559
Can you kick off the meeting for us?
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:40.719
I'll chime in and be support.
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:51.760
Um, I have the great privilege in our company of Lacey and I constantly doing that for each other and just being able to say, like, who has more bandwidth right now?
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:53.599
Who has more capacity right now?
00:45:53.840 --> 00:46:01.679
Not a place of shame, but from a place of recognizing that that sometimes being human is hard.
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:14.480
And certainly if we are only looking at what should we be doing more of, it just sends us deeper into that shame spiral of hiding and pretending.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.639
And that's where I think things get honestly pretty scary for some folks.
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:21.840
I think that's where we lose great employees.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:24.719
I think that's where quiet quitting happens.
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:29.360
I think that's where people don't reach out for the supports that are available.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:33.280
We maybe get blind-sided that we didn't see that they were struggling.
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:50.960
Um so creating that that culture of of being able to acknowledge voice, some of that could be modeled at the higher tiers, I think, um, as a way of setting the the tone for the culture and and giving the permission for others to do it too.
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:54.639
I agree so much with every single thing you just said.
00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:03.920
I've worked with leaders that just don't want to appear uh as if they don't know something or if they're being human.
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:11.280
But I find that people really respect the leader that can say, can I just take a moment?
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:13.280
Because I don't know the answer to that.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:15.440
And I just need about five minutes.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:15.840
Yeah.
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:17.599
And then I can help you.
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.440
But right now I just don't know.
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:21.199
What is wrong with saying that?
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.360
And I think the team respects that more.
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:27.519
They feel safer with someone that is human or facts human.
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.679
And I really respect that.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:36.800
And and I also wanted to point out for every yes we give someone, there is a no that has to happen.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:38.719
What are you saying no to your family?
00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:44.239
If you say yes to work, to doing this one more thing, then you have to say no somewhere else.
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:46.719
Yeah, and who's paying that cost?
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:52.079
And how do you how do you balance that so that yeah, uh, man.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:53.360
I know it's it's hard.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:54.960
Hard conversations.
00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:02.559
I'd love for both of you to teach us right now, is it sounds simple, but it's really not, because it's approaching the neuroscience of the brain.
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:08.880
I refer to the frontal cortex as the CEO, and the lower part of the brain is like the caveman.
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.639
That's how it helps me understand how it functions.
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:28.559
But if you could teach us what's happening exactly underneath that what we think is capable, what signals might our bodies or behavior be giving us that we're particularly good at ignoring?
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:30.880
What are the signals we ignore the most?
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:32.960
Oh gosh.
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:41.519
I mean, if we're talking just regular American culture, um, we ignore thirst, hunger, sleep.
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:42.400
Yes.
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.280
All of the main five things that the body needs.
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:58.800
Um I don't, I think the beauty of it is you don't have to know that, you know, executive functioning lives in your prefrontal cortex.
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.239
You know it in the core of who you are.
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:07.440
You know when you feel like, oh geez, I've been hijacked.
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.159
Like I just acted outside of myself.
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:15.280
I am embarrassed for how I responded to that person.
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.519
Um, that is human and that happens.
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:25.119
And we all have our moments where we are like, oh, I hope everyone in the room has amnesia.
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:28.000
Um it's how we come back from that.
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.159
It's how we learn through that.
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:34.880
And I love what you were saying about just being human, admitting our humanity.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.400
It's not a secret, right?
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:40.159
We know that every manager we've ever had was human and it's okay.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:49.440
Um, but I think that more of the key to understanding it is that our brains are wired to keep us safe.
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:57.360
And the things that our brains predict as threats sometimes are a misread.
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:06.000
We are constantly making incorrect sense of things that our brains predict as a threat.
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:10.800
Um, now, in good service, she's trying to keep me safe up here.
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:18.239
Um, but I might look across the room at a person and think she just looked at me with such disgust.
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.679
And that might be true, and it might not.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:30.639
And it might be that she's thinking about the leftovers she needs to throw out from her fridge, and she did have disgust on her face, but it wasn't about me at all.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:31.039
Right.
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:31.679
Right.
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:34.639
It's like misreading a text or an email or something.
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:45.199
The very things that cause the depletion, like overworking and accomplishing things, or you feel important.
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:50.559
You feel like, okay, yes, this is exhausting me, but people really need me.
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.280
I'm the person everybody can count on.
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.960
When does something like that initially making us feel valued?
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:01.280
It begins to cost us.
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:02.559
Yeah.
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:04.000
You are valued.
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:13.920
And I think that the more we remind ourselves that we are valued, the more we align the cost in the right categories.
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:32.000
Um, I am my child's mother, which means I need to align some cost spending in that column in a way that makes me feel like, okay, not every day, not every day can I align that column perfectly.
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:37.679
But on most days, I get to be really satisfied with how I have spent the cost of that.
00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:50.480
Um I I think that when we remind ourselves that yes, we are important, that yes, our prediction center gets it wrong often.
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:51.280
Yeah.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:51.840
Yeah.
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:54.719
Um, but that we can recalibrate.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:04.880
I think there's there's maybe the nugget that I would leave us with of that you can always recalibrate, that every moment is a new chance.
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:44.159
And so if you find yourself out of alignment, whether with your behavior, your thoughts, your predictions, that you can always realign um and that we maybe do the most damage to ourselves and others when we think that there isn't time to realign, when we just be bulldozing instead of giving ourselves the 30 seconds to take a breath, to hold the next word that's coming out of our mouth, um, to prevent the harm that's going to happen when we go off on someone, when we wield the sword with power instead of compassion, there is always regret.
00:52:44.320 --> 00:53:01.599
And so I think remembering that, hey, there is, there is usually, uh, I would say there are maybe a few exceptions and more grace to those folks, but for the rest of us, there's usually a 30 seconds that we can spare to recalibrate.
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.920
Yes, recalibration is very important, especially for those middle managers.
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:16.960
Middle managers are often responsible for creating that psychological safety for everyone else.
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:22.400
But what happens when the middle manager doesn't feel psychologically safe themselves?
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:26.400
What have y'all seen happen in that zone?
00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:38.719
I think when we can see that, hey, that the I think the example I brought up earlier of um uh somebody who came to us with some feedback about Nuria of like, hey, I'm in a culture that's just not psychologically safe.
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.280
My leadership isn't, and that's just where we are.
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:46.800
And I don't want to quit my job over it, but I have to, I'm sandwiched in the middle.
00:53:47.119 --> 00:54:03.039
Um I think that's the moment we're we're in this culture where immediate response, like we all want instant gratification from you know, scrolling on our phones to I remember it being the biggest piece of advice with when I got married like 15 years ago, never go to bed angry.
00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:04.239
Well, you know what that means?
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.599
You never get a minute to think about what the right thing would be to say.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.880
And so we have this, like you're expected to have this instant response.
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:19.280
And when you're sandwiched between things and your performance matters, trying to say, like, hey, I've got to pause for a beat.
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:26.880
Um, my one of my favorite things, a leader of who I love used to always say is like, hey, behaviorally, I'm above the line or below the line.
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.760
And if I'm below the line in my day, I am not responding well.
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:36.320
I'm coming from my full like fight or flight, and I am what it's like, fight, flight, freeze, and gone.
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:42.320
None of them are the thing I want to be, but I am reacting instantly because I feel like I'm supposed to.
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.199
I feel like people expect this instant response.
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:54.079
And I'm supposed to never, never have this moment where I let it go and take a step back and say, hey, I'm I'm below the line right now.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:56.079
My response isn't going to be good.
00:54:56.159 --> 00:54:57.599
Let me take five minutes.
00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:04.400
Um, and I loved this leader for her just, I need five, or let me get back to you tomorrow.
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:11.760
I we're, you know, very rarely are we in a moment where an immediate response is absolutely necessary.
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:18.559
And so I think when we see people stuck in that spot, we're responding right away because we feel like we have to.
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:23.519
We don't feel empowered to say, I need a minute to process that.
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:27.199
And also these other five things have just come at me.
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:32.239
And now I'm trying to operate in a hailstorm of challenges.
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:47.039
Um, and so we we get trapped, I think, in this immediate response space where it's it's expected because we've all trained ourselves to want instant gratification, but also feel compelled to to kind of like you were talking about earlier.
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:49.519
I want to be able to always perform.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:52.639
Like, don't worry, all these things are coming at me, but I've got you.
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:55.760
And and that's just not, there's opportunity costs.
00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:57.199
There is no free lunch.
00:55:57.360 --> 00:56:04.159
Um, and so I think that's where we start to see it is these responses where people are like, oh man, I had to give an answer.
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.639
I had to, when what we needed was a breather.
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:16.320
Um, and and there is so much space to say, well, like, look, in my instant response, I instantly need two minutes to breathe.
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:20.320
I instantly need to go take a breath because I'm below the line again.
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:26.880
Um, and I think training ourselves to say, I don't have to immediately solve everything.
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:35.760
Like I can step back and process and say, look, if all I have is 30 seconds for deep breaths, that's still gonna put me in a better spot.
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.079
Oh, I'm still gonna be able to respond.
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:38.719
Exactly.
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:39.119
Yes.
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:42.960
Just breathing in and out through your nose is a faster way to get the oxygen into your brain.
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:47.119
So if you can't stop and do some counting on your brain, like just nose breathe.
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:48.960
Um, you know, those things.
00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:58.639
Um, but we we see it the most, I think, in folks who are I'm sandwiched in the middle and I'm expected to be ready for anything and to save everyone.
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:08.880
Um, and it's such a like detrimental mentality of like, look, nobody is that kind of life raft, but you can keep bringing yourself back.
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:11.039
You don't have to instantly respond.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:19.920
I'm going to pause our conversation right there because Lacey just gave us something incredibly simple to think about.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:23.920
What if you don't have to respond right now?
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:37.280
When we're used to being the person who handles things, fixes things, answers the question, and keeps everything moving, without taking even 30 seconds can feel uncomfortable.
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:42.079
But sometimes the next right move isn't having the perfect response.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:46.800
Sometimes it's creating enough space to have a better one.
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.559
And this is where sustain becomes so important.
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.760
Sustain isn't about never falling into an old behavior again.
00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:07.440
It isn't about never doubting yourself, becoming afraid, feeling insecure or hearing that old voice that says, Maybe I'm not capable of this.
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:17.119
It's learning how to recognize when those old patterns and beliefs are trying to take the wheel, and knowing how to find your way back.
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:21.440
And that leaves us with a really interesting question.
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:26.159
What if you didn't have to find your way back entirely on your own?
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:28.800
That's where we're going in part two.
00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:36.719
Tomorrow, Mariana and Lacey are going to show us what support can actually look like closer to the moment we need it.
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:53.199
We'll talk about psychological safety, practicing difficult situations before they happen, recognizing patterns we may not see ourselves, and how Nuri Edge is being built to support the human, not replace the human.
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.000
Until then, here's your plus one.
00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:04.000
The next time you feel that pressure to respond immediately, give yourself thirty seconds.
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:05.039
That's it.
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:11.039
30 seconds to breathe, notice what's happening, and decide what you want to do next.
00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:18.719
Pause, choose, build momentum, and finish stronger than you started.
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:21.039
I'll see you tomorrow for part two.
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:26.320
Hey, it's me Pam, and before we go, just a quick reminder.
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:40.960
Everything we share here is meant to encourage, educate, and get you thinking, but it's not a substitute for professional mental health, medical, legal, financial, or any other licensed advice.
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:46.559
I'm simply someone who's walking through life, learning right alongside you.
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:49.519
And I'm grateful we get to learn together.
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:54.960
Always seek the guidance of a qualified professional for your unique situation.
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:57.119
Thanks for spending this time with us.
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:03.599
Until next time, remember sometimes the biggest change begins with one small pause.
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:07.360
I'll see you on the next episode of Delay the Binge.