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Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
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We're your hosts, Mariah.
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And hey guys, I'm Shay.
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We're two online business consultants passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
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We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
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And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
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Especially if we want to create a life that feels good from the inside out.
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So if you're ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way, let's get into the episode.
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Okay, so for this episode, we're talking about one of my favorite topics in the online space that I feel like I don't get to talk about too much.
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Maybe because I've naturally kind of just weaved collaborations into my business and kind of just that's kind of just, I don't know, that's exactly what this podcast is.
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You know what I mean?
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Like that's kind of just how I think about business.
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But it was cool to bring Jordan Gill back on the podcast.
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She was also previously on the podcast, but I wanted her to come back and really talk about her zone of genius, which is collaborations.
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And I talk a little bit more about this when, you know, when we're introing her in the actual episode itself.
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But the cool thing is, since we recorded this, Jordan Gill loves collaboration so much that she started working with Kit, formerly Convert Kit, like as their affiliate manager.
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I think that's her title.
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I might be lying.
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So, Jordan, if I'm fucking that up, I'm sorry.
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Uh, but it's like she loves collaboration so much, she's literally helping my favorite email marketing software with collaborations from like a software perspective and like reaching out and connecting even deeper with business owners.
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And I know that that was a huge shift in her business.
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I've read like a bunch of posts that she kind of mentioned about this when she was announcing the transition.
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And she was running her business for 10 years by herself, and then she saw this opportunity posted on LinkedIn and she read it and she was like, I didn't expect that this is where 2026 was gonna go.
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But she said that she read the um like job description, the job description over on LinkedIn, and she was like, Oh my god, this is me.
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And then she ended up getting it, and it's really cool.
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She's like still sharing about her business.
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I'm on her email list, she's still sending emails, but now it's just cool that she's gonna get this whole other level of collaborations, and I I know how her brain works.
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She's gonna be weaving this stuff, and we're all gonna be able to gather the juice from like all of the things that she's learning.
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So I'm really excited for her and I'm really excited for Kit.
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It's funny how you know, I don't even think Jordan could have foreseen that this opportunity would come up.
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And we recorded this episode before she made the change.
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So it's interesting that like one of the skills that you develop while running your business can eventually turn into uh expertise that you have that you can get then go work in a different organization.
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And and where this whole season is like kind of bridging the gap between working for yourself online or maybe going back in person and working in your community or working for a company.
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So seeing our friends here follow their curiosity ultimately and be open and flexible and kind of just go with whatever is feeling energizing in that moment is really refreshing.
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Obviously, we we're big fans.
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Um, I am blown away in this episode.
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I think if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably label yourself as a strategic person or you've got a strategic mind.
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Jordan to me is like the next level strategic mastermind genius.
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Like you'll hear her talk about this insane calendar and 50 plus partnerships and collaborations.
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And each thing she's doing is so intentional.
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Like, not only is it for the purpose of collaborating, it's also checking like 10 other boxes in her business.
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Just the way she thinks about the big ecosystem and how everything works together really it should it shocked me.
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It was awesome.
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Like it's really cool to see her mind and how she applies it to things.
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I felt really energized and encouraged and just knowing that it's possible to hold as much as she holds and still like have a life and be so cool and down to earth.
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And she's just a lovely human, and we're really um always really feeling blessed when she decides to come back on the podcast.
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So a little bit about Jordan.
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She's a business strategist and international speaker whose mission is for high-achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue.
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Her Apple Top 100 Entrepreneur podcast, Systems Saved Me, goes behind the scenes of businesses to spotlight the invisible systems you've never seen or heard of.
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If you guys want to check out the rest of her bio, make sure to click on the link in our show notes, to our show notes.
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And with that, let's jump into the episode.
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All right, y'all.
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We have a special episode here.
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Jordan Gill.
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I'm so excited for this, for this interview because collabs is really like one of Jordan's zones of genius.
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And it pairs really well with my zone of genius in terms of SEO, right?
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Because a lot of the times I'm helping clients, you know, we're finding keywords, we're getting their website rip roar and ready to roll.
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And then it's like, how do I keep moving forward?
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And a lot of the times I'm telling people, I'm like, yo, you got to collab with people because that's how we get backlinks, that's how we get brand authority.
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Like all of this, it is connected, even though it might not see that it might not seem so on the outside.
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And so I've been collaborating in my business ever since the beginning.
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I feel like that's really where I gain the confidence in order to keep moving forward and keep building.
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But I have people come to me all the time and they're like, okay, Mariah, you say to collab, or you say to like collab with people and complimenting industries.
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I say that all the time.
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And then I'm like, How the fuck do I get started?
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I was like, what do you mean?
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Like you just do it.
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And then I told Jordan that I say that to people.
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And she's like, oh girl, I will, I will tell them what to do because like I don't remember.
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I'm like, what do you mean?
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You just like slide into somebody's DMs and you're just like, you wanna do something together?
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Because that's literally what I do.
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And I'm like, what do you mean?
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Like, people don't feel comfortable doing that?
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What like how?
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Why?
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Like, I don't remember the very beginner basic steps or even some of the more advanced steps that I'm really excited to dive into you, dive into with you about because you just approach collaborations from a really strategic, but yet really fun place.
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And I'm excited to kind of hear your brain on it.
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So, all of that, thanks so much for coming on.
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Yes, that was a wonderful intro.
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And I'm excited to learn out, yeah, about the beginnings, the middles, the ends, the the whole gamut.
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Well, can I like pop in?
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I want you to.
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This is not my zone of genius.
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I do a bit of this, and I'd love to hear, like, when you guys say collabs, I don't even really know like where does that start and finish?
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Like, how do you guys define collaborations?
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Yeah.
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So for me, any collaboration is when, again, two or more parties are sharing an end goal.
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So that end goal could be again, you go on a guest podcast and you want people to learn about me.
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I want people to learn about y'all.
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And so that's a collaboration.
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Um, it could be, oh, someone's wanting you to speak in their community.
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So that is a shared win because they're looking for an expert in whatever it is you teach, and then you are looking for an audience to be able to share what you teach.
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So that's a collaboration.
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It could be bundles, summits, a lot of those that are uh typical in our industry.
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It could be again virtual conferences, it could be uh joint ventures, which is honestly a big, wide bubble, but most people understand it as like a JV webinar where again, maybe I have a webinar that I want to take on tour.
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And so I'm going to look for partners instead of doing a big launch and have all the affiliates join or all the people join.
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I want to do a joint venture and just do my webinar for one audience at a time.
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Uh, so those are a few collaborations.
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I have like a list of 16, uh, but I can't just like rattle them off the top of my head.
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But those are some examples of ones that I've done and that people may be familiar with and kind of understand this collaboration.
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Yeah, it's essentially just like sharing an audience.
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So, like one of the things that you have to keep in mind is like, do you want to share this person's audience?
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But it's like it's like a huge thing where it's like, do I want to get in front of this person's audience?
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Are they my kind of people?
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That type of thing.
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Jordan, once you how did you even like what was your first collaboration?
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How did you even get started doing this?
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Was it like on accident?
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Yeah, I think I'm just a naturally collaborative person.
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And uh except for like group projects in high school, college.
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I was just talking to my husband about this.
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I was like my group project almost tanked my last semester campaign project.
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I didn't let it happen because I'm me.
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Uh, but since that time in my life, I feel that I've just always been collaborative in nature.
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I think one of my first collaborations was probably me speaking in someone else's community.
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And that was uh in a joint venture kind of format.
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And I I don't know if I knew that that's what it was at the time, but that's what it was, where it was like, hey, I have this thing, your audience might want it, do they want it?
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And so, and at that point, I was just like, that makes the most sense to me instead of trying to always like with social media and stuff, which I love Instagram, but like instead of trying to go one-to-one in that way, I want to go one to many.
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Like, I just want to find the ponds that my people are already in and me just hop to each of them versus again trying to have a ton of one-on-one conversations.
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So yeah, I think my first one was joint venture.
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It's usually not people's first, it was either joint venture or guest podcast, one or the other, because I had a podcast at the time.
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And so then when I first started my podcast, it's like, okay, well, how do I get listeners?
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How do I get people?
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Hello.
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Um, and so a lot of times people will do guest swaps.
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And so that was definitely something I was doing in the beginning of my podcast was okay, I'll be on yours, you'll be on mine.
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And again, it's just I think that so many people make it a bigger thing than it needs to be.
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And I love Mariah that you mentioned that it's just like, hey, you want to do something cool together?
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Like, and that is a totally fine and like great approach because it also is so different from the people who are trying to, because there can be something like over strategic, right?
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Where it's just like, okay, you're doing too much, you're asking too much, you're coming at me full force.
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That's a little cray.
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Uh, so you kind of have to find that middle ground for yourself where it is like, hey, you want to do something cool together.
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And also, like, here's why strategically it makes sense for us to do so, right?
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I'm like a super literal thinker.
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So if you don't mind, like, share with us.
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You know, you say, like, you'll reach out to people and be like, I think I have this thing and I think your audience will like it.
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I I kind of start to draw a blank around like, what is this thing?
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Like, how did you come up with?
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Because I agree with you, like, you're not doing a full course.
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You're doing kind of this little kind of teaser.
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So, how did you come up with the things, you know, or did you have them already?
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And like, what does that look like actually?
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Yes.
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So I'm big on peer-to-peer collaboration versus like feeling like I want to go for like the big fish, the big kahunas of your industry.
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Not that you can't or that you shouldn't, but just for me, what I found the most success with is like, hey, we're kind of on like the same playing field.
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And so that always feels way more comfortable to me than again trying to get enough husband, so to speak, to like go after the big ones, which is just really hard because the bigger, the people with the big audiences and the shiny names, they a lot of times have their whole marketing calendar built for the year.
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A lot of times they already have friends who are in your space that they already refer for.
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So it just again, I I think people just miss out on so much side to side.
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If you just like look left to right, you don't need to look up, and you're gonna find really great people.
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So that already kind of like lowers the I guess anxiety, so to speak, or the nervousness about okay, you know, what is this thing that I have to like impress people with and whatever?
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Because it's like, hey, it's like we're like peers, and you know, level up, level down, who cares, right?
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So that's one thing to kind of just like make things not feel as intense.
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And then the thing could be multiple, multiple things, right?
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So for me, uh, when I'm collaborating, it usually is some sort of like speaking, whether it's me speaking to some someone's community or they're speaking to my community.
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Um and then it also is about well, for some people, it's just about audience size or audience match.
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And then some people, it's about money, like, are you gonna pay me to come be in here?
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But I have like a bunch of other reasons why I would say yes to something that may not be audience and money.
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So you can kind of adapt your thing to that.
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So for example, there was a a I guess it was a summit, and it was all about burnout, and it was actually a group of therapists, which isn't my normal crew, nothing wrong with that, but just not my normal crew.
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And so I was like, okay, interesting.
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But she spoke about burnout, and that is something that we both related to.
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And so while maybe I would get some audience, maybe whatever, but because I'm passionate about the mission and we have that joint mission, I was like, yes, like I know I'm gonna enjoy that.
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I know that I'll get a sprinkle of people, but for me, my mission was more important than money or audience match necessarily in that moment.
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So you can sometimes, I don't want to say get away with, but you can sometimes connect with and collaborate with people who you may not have thought you would collaborate with just because you share a vision or again, there's some sort of alignment outside of audience and money that is more heart-centered.
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Um, and so your thing could be again, community, it could be podcast, it could be webinar, it could be all sorts of things.
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But you know, how you figure out if that's something people want to do or if their audience even will resonate, because like for me, people will pitch me during venture webinars.
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And I'm like, the only webinars my people will go to are systems.
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Like, and I've to I've been doing this for 10 years.
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I do 50 to 60 collabs a year.
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I know what my people want.
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And so I just have to say no, even if I love the person, even if I know their program is dope, even if I know all the things, I'm like, listen, it's just not gonna work for my audience.
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Like, I just know.
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Um, so that also is important to collaborate with people who know their people and also respect their own audiences in their own right.
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Because again, I'm not just gonna shuffle stuff to my people.
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I want it to be good.
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And I want it, it's it's my name connected to it.
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So you have to think about that side of it as well.
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In the case of the burnout example, so like, did you prepare a unique talk all around burnout?
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And are you preparing something unique every time?
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Um, kind of the site goes into the pitch, right?
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Like how you tailor a pitch.
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Yep.
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So I uh I'll use the example.
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So burnout, yes, I did create a specific one because the audience was different.
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Um, and so I needed to change some of the language and then also um be able to figure out how I can relate to them, even if I'm not one of them, so to speak.
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So that one did, but again, for something that feels so close to people's hearts, like again, if it's it could be a charity that brings people together, it could be again a mission, it could be whatever.
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Um, and so I'm not doing that every time.
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Usually what I will do, uh, like for example, a while ago I did like literally pre, what was that?
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That was probably 2018, uh, I did like a JV webinar tour for this uh course.
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So it's called Team of One.
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It was all about solarpreneurship, systems for solarpreneurs.
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And I took it on tour, and each person that I was pitching and connecting to about it had again a kind of more of a niche audience.
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So there was somebody who had uh a bunch of lawyers, there were financial people, there was creatives, there was whoever.
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And so my webinar and general solution that I'm you know solving for is the same.
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But the way in which I speak about it is gonna be a little bit different depending on who I'm talking to, right?
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Because again, I had one where I was talking to wedding uh wedding planners.
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Um I'm not gonna say clients, I'm gonna say brides, right?
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Or things that are make it feel like I have a shared knowledge with the people that I'm talking to.
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So it's things like that that I think help keep you in touch with who you're pitching so they know, okay, they're not just gonna come and it's not gonna be relatable to my people because then that doesn't feel good.
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Yeah, I feel like the like the thing too is completely dependent on like, are you using collaborations?
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Like, where in the buyer's journey are you kind of using them?
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Like, are you using them just for like visibility?
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Are you or are you using them for like a launch?
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Like a lot of times people use kind of like Jordan's examples where it's like I went on a tour where it's like you're kind of taking this very similar workshop and you're just showing up to other people's audience and sharing the same message, probably with the goal of getting people into this course or this program or this membership, whatever.
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So it could be a really good like pre-launch strategy to grow the email list and all of that.
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:25.759
And then I feel like there's the hey, I'm actually in between launches or I don't have very much launch plan, but I still want to grow my email list because especially in the online business world, it's just really common.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.640
Like a lot of us make money from emails and people being on our list and stuff like that.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.960
And so there is that.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:40.640
And then I think in the very beginning, I wanted to collaborate literally to just get experience collaborating.
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:52.640
Like I literally was like, I don't know how this is gonna go, but I think what got me turned on to it was seeing how normal collaborations are locally, like in person.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:19:02.720
Like if you go to a farmer's market, that's technically a collaboration because you're like you're collaborating with all of the other people that are showing up to the farmer's market and whoever is hosting it.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:21.440
Or it's like when you go to an event, or like um, I went to a gala like a couple months ago, and it's like that whole thing was to raise money for something, but it's like people were popping up and selling they had like a permanent jewelry station, and then somebody else like I don't know, they donated something and got like a shout out on stage.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:36.240
So it's like I feel like us online business folks talk so much about like only the online options, but it really is like in your industry or in your fields, who compliments that?
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.559
It really can be that simple.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:53.599
This season of the Curiously Guided Podcast, including this episode, is sponsored by Adobe Acrobat.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:59.039
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00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.319
It totally can.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:29.920
I think about, yeah, when I go to uh one of my favorite coffee shops to go to is Lala Land.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.279
Um, it's down here in Texas.
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.680
It's kind of in California, Arizona area.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.000
I think it's just open in Nashville too.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.720
But um, I love them for multiple reasons.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.440
Number one is the baristas are actually all kids coming out of foster care and wanting to get job experience.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.079
So that is a mission near and dear to me.
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.759
I don't have any connection to a foster care.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.880
It should have always been something that I've just felt called to.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:54.240
So I follow it.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.839
But I I love it because that is an amazing mission.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
And then secondly, they do a ton of conversation.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.880
Collaborations, like and I use them as a case study and just like how I operate as well.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:12.640
Like they collaborated with Disney, they collaborate with um gosh, the who's the viral cucumber salad dude on TikTok.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.079
Like they've literally collaborated with like so many people.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:24.079
And it's interesting because, like, like you said, Mariah, like everybody is collaborating offline really well.
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:35.920
I feel like you go into a smoothie shop, they have yoga class, you know, free yoga class, little business cards on the side, or you walk into a coffee shop and there's like a bulletin board with people sharing stuff that you can do as well.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.680
And it's like it's about the complementiness of what it is you're doing.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:23:11.200
Like if you know that your people are, you know, uh into health-related stuff, but you specifically help with the food part of it, then maybe collaborating with a drink partner or collaborating with, you know, um, health classes or fitness classes, or just thinking about what extra things are your people already going to, they're already doing, but because you have a connection or a relationship with the other business owners, like it's just like a duh moment.
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:33.440
So, you know, I think that it's something that people, for me, when I collaborate to, when I host collaborations, like for example, if I did my virtual conferences or things like that, I actually looked at who I'm collaborating with as people to help me overcome objections, which is kind of like a layer deeper uh than most people think.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:47.599
But I I want them to be in complimentary audiences, but I also I because at that time, that collaboration specifically for a virtual conference I was hosting, I was pitching my$5,000 offer at the time.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.039
So that that's a pretty tight uh collaboration.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.960
It's not necessarily just for visibility.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:02.319
It is, I have speakers come and they share their insights and they can be affiliates, but I also had a whole affiliate army separately from that.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.160
And people would share it, and then I want people to buy.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:07.680
Um, that's the whole goal of it.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:16.079
So for me, then that next layer deep of objections is okay, I'm a systems person doing VIP days.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.640
An objection I got was, but I'm in a creative field.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.559
So can creatives do VIP days?
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:32.960
So I would choose speakers who were creatives who had a VIP day, and they were sharing, you know, their expertise or why they loved VIP days.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.240
That's an undertone that then helps me overcome objections because they can't say that anymore.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:48.799
Like they can't say, well, Jordan, you're in systems, because I just show them an entire panel of people who are in creative fields, like copy, like website design, like branding, like whatever else.
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:57.839
So, and I don't see a ton of people doing that because then I look at other people's summits or things and I'm like, this is like this is not organized how I would organize it.
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:04.720
But I I think that especially if it's that tight um, what did you say, Mariah?
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.559
Like uh five stages of awareness, right?
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:32.160
So if I'm I'm wanting people to get to like solution aware where I'm providing the solution and I need you to take it, you have to think a few more layers deep than just, hey, I'm cool with people who are problem aware for guest podcasting, for other types of summits, for those sorts of things, because it's it's more of a visibility play than a buying play, so to speak.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:35.119
Genius.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.599
I mean, I talk about objection handling, right?
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.480
I do this all day, but the best way to do it is up front, right?
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.720
Like answer questions before they even come up.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.839
So I love that.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.319
And what you guys are saying about think about the goal.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.319
What is the bigger goal of the collab?
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.480
And are we launching a program, right?
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.119
And how could you structure that up at the front?
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:54.720
That's just so genius.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:05.119
Um I so what we are excited to talk to you about is you do an impressive amount of collaborations every year, like 50 to 60, I think.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.680
And I have a billion questions around that.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:15.519
But I just to get started, like I would love to hear your thoughts on pitching, you know, like A, how do you get a hold of people?
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.359
Are you sending DMs on Instagram?
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.200
Are you trying to find a mutual connection?
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.640
And then B, like you get pitched a lot and you do a lot of pitching.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.319
Like, what are some best practices, some things you hate to see?
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.880
You know, just kind of like the overview, I guess, of pitching all of that.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.160
Oh, yes.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.759
I I love pitching and I love being pitched.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.440
I don't like bad pitches.
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:38.160
All right.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:50.240
Um, but I I really what I enjoy about it is again, it lets me know you have the cojones to like come at me and actually tell me what you want from me.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.359
Because again, I don't like the beanie around the bush.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.960
I don't like let's coffee chat, but really we're gonna try this.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:57.839
No.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.960
Just tell me what you want from me so I can say yes, no, maybe, and we can move on from there.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:13.359
Other people may have other, you know, feelings about that, but for me, I'll do my pitching first and then I'll talk about people pitching me then.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:20.720
So when I pitch, uh, the first time that I'm they see my name, I don't want to be the pitch.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.240
So that means that I'm like, okay, I know I want to pitch this person.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.559
I'm gonna go and rate and review their podcast.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.119
I'm gonna go and comment on some of their stuff on social.
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.480
I'm going to make myself just seen.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:36.799
Like, just and it doesn't have to be super substantial or anything.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.920
Again, there's no, okay, I'm expecting them to respond to anything that I'm doing or give me a shout-out.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:43.519
Literally, it's touch points.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:49.759
It's like I need data points so that the first time they see my name, it's not a pitch.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.279
So that's number one.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:03.920
Number two is when I go into that pitch, I actually look at again what is relevant in their world right now that would make my pitch be like, oh my gosh, thank goodness she found me.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:04.640
I'm so excited.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:06.160
Like, let's make this happen.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.359
So relevancy is huge with pitching.
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:10.960
That's on both sides.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:20.079
So again, if I'm, you know, I don't know, talking about micro tools right now, but then someone is pitching me about, hey, do you want to sell my website template for VIP days?
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.599
Okay, no.
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.720
And also, like, where have you been the past three years?
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.119
But just like the relevancy is huge.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.880
Like, you have to understand what is in their world and how do you fit in in a way that's not disruptive.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.400
And that is again complementary to what it is they're currently doing.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.000
How is what you have going to support me and my goals?
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.039
Um, and so I do that, you know, on the opposite side.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:56.319
So I come at it from an angle that just feels like very duh or very like, even if it's a timing thing right now, they're just like, you know, follow back in a month, right?
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.440
Or whatever the case is.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:08.160
So that's how I'm able to write really good pitches, get a lot of yeses from my pitches because I'm not coming at it from a disruptive place.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:19.440
I'm coming at it from a I see the train tracks you're on, and I'm just gonna like hitch right next to yours, and it's gonna be, you know, exciting and and helpful for you.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:24.319
Then when I get pitches, um, I actually got one recently that was really good.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.160
Um, the reason it was good was because, because I feel like we talk a whole lot about the bad pitches because it's very easy to talk about them.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:35.519
There's a lot more of those, but the good ones are uh she did a really great job.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.480
Her subject line was what is your march look like?
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:39.759
And I was like, great.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.680
I love when somebody just tells me when something is supposed to be happening.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:49.680
So I open it, and uh it was a bundle, which I don't actually do.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.359
So that even tells you how good the pitch was because it I don't I say no to like all the bundles.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:02.079
And but I kept reading and she let me know in the first couple sentences.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:07.119
She was like, hey, I actually just bought your, I think it was my page one playbook or something.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:08.880
And she was like, it was super good.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.759
I just implemented this part, I can't wait to see the results from it.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:20.400
And it made me think you actually would be a really great um person to have as a part of this bundle that I do, yada yada.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:26.319
But that second part that is crucial is you're telling me what you want from me.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.440
Like, I'm not good when someone's like, let's collab.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:32.799
Throw me into a tizzy, why don't you?
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.960
Like, I don't know what to do with that.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:37.599
Like, that is like the scariest question I could be asked.
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:46.000
Like, it's just, and not because I don't want to collaborate, but because I'm just like, you know, like I have a hard time choosing what I want to wear every day.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.799
So I just buy five of the same pants and keep wearing them, you know.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.119
Like I don't, it's too many choices.
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:58.400
So I think it's always best, in my personal opinion, to say, okay, this I heard you on a podcast.
00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:59.440
This is what you spoke about.
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.599
This is why I want you to talk about in my community.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.400
I just bought this thing from you, I just implemented this result.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.400
Now I want you to come and talk about it.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:19.279
Like, that is where people then are given a green flag of like, okay, you know what I'm about, you know what you like about what I'm saying, and you just want me to again put it, put that use somewhere else.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.640
So that's really big when people come to me about that.
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:35.519
And then also just like for me, um, I don't like to be in a lot of things that have a lot of people in them, mainly because then again, it's a dilution of attention.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:44.799
And so at a certain and people think like, oh, if I have more speakers or if I have more things and it's gonna reach more people, I have yet to experience that.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:51.519
Um, and so I do have like a just okay, how many people are involved in this sort of question for me?
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:07.519
And so that always comes to play, and not in the sense of like, oh, I obviously obviously I'm trying to reach people, but I again it's a dilution of attention for everybody, honestly.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:09.200
Like, it's not even just about me.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:16.240
And so I will look at and say, okay, you have 40 speakers, like that's just gonna be a no for me.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.559
Like, that's just like generally not gonna be a place that I want to be.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:37.200
Also, this is just like a side note when people, and maybe it's because I'm just a more relational person, but when people lead with numbers, which sounds like okay, Jordan, you love strategy, you love all this stuff, but for me, I can be in small rooms and make shit happen.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:47.119
So I don't need to hear, oh, you're gonna get in front of 10,000 people, whatever, and you're just like adding people's email lists together and doing some weird math.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.440
Like, I'm good with that.
00:32:49.599 --> 00:33:02.559
Like, I would rather know that it's gonna be an audience match, you know what I want to talk about, here's when you want me to talk about it, and the math is gonna work itself out for me just because I'm good at speaking and I'm good at what I do.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:11.039
So that's just the thing, too, is if people are you can say the numbers, but if you're leading with the numbers, then I know it's bullshit to be honest.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:18.640
Um, so I'm like, you you kind of gotta whittle your way through when you get a ton of pitches or you see a ton of pitches.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:25.359
The pattern I've seen is when they and what I mean by lead by numbers, if you're like, but I want to share like what the possibility is.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:41.920
Leading by numbers is saying, Hey, I want you to be a part of this, you're gonna get in front of all these people, and here's like how many touch points, and here's the views, and here's the like it's like more than just saying a strict, like, hey, we're expecting 10,000 people, cool.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:48.160
When you start to layer a bunch of numbers and trying to like really fluffy it up, that's that's when it's a problem.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:56.319
So again, share what you want, but I would say those are some things that in my experience between when I'm pitching or when I'm being pitched are helpful.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:02.640
I am over here nodding emphatically because yes, 100%.
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:17.280
And like once I feel like once you start getting pitch, which I know like might take a while in order for that to start happening, because usually what happens is people pitch the people that they think will say yes or like have had collabs before.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:23.360
If they don't know maybe like what you're an expert in, or maybe they don't know if you do collaborations, they might not be pitching you.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:35.039
But once you start getting these pitches, you'll like almost immediately know what not to do because you're reading these and be like, oh, it's that line that I don't like.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:41.039
Like I got pitched for a bundle or a summit, one of those last week.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:55.440
And it was like they just took a line from my about page on my website and copy and pasted it like into the email and been like, and it's because you and then used a line from my website and then continued what they did.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.519
And I was like, it you didn't even jazz this up, dude.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:03.199
Like, you didn't even copy this paragraph, put it into Chat GPT.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:07.840
Like, you don't have I don't need a full custom pitch.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.239
I absolutely don't, but it's just like you just seemed like you didn't really give a shit.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:19.039
And here's the thing we're adults, I'm not 12 years old looking for a fucking play date, dude.
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:45.519
I'm not, I'm busy, I got shit to do, and like I love collaborating, but also I have limited time in my experience and my life, and I can only say yes to so many things, and I like to say yes to my husband a lot, so that means that like I can't say yes to other things naturally, and so it's like I love the example that you're saying last week where it was like, Hey, I just bought this thing and I really like it, and like that's why you would be good.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:52.960
Cool, she just did like 75% of the work for you because a lot of the times people are like, You want to be in my thing?
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:54.320
I know that you're an expert in this.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.440
What do you want to talk about?
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.239
I don't know.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.840
What do you think would be a good fit?
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.280
Like, you're coming to me.
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:09.760
So if you're pitching somebody that maybe you don't have a prior relationship with, because I find when you have a prior relationship, if I wanted to collaborate with Shay or collaborate with Jordan, I literally be like, yo, dude, I got this problem.
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:11.920
Like, do you want to collaborate and like figure this shit out?
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.519
It's literally how I got Jordan on the podcast.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.840
I'm like, I don't know how the fuck to explain collaborations.
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.239
Can you come on and talk to me and Shay about it and like our audience?
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.760
And she was like, Yeah, for sure.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:31.840
Like it gets to be more relational, but when you don't have that relationship, you kind of have to go at it from a how can we make this easiest possible and like both win.
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:33.920
Yes, 100%.
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:40.800
And I like to also bring up the math of collaborations a little bit because you brought up, you like to say yes to your husband a lot.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.440
I do as well.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.039
I like my husband, I like my bonus line, I like my house, all things.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.840
So you're competing against some really amazing people and things in my life.
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:58.480
So, but for a lot of people, when you think about just like the math of collaborations and how much capacity people have to collaborate, I have a high capacity.
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.000
Okay, I do have 50 to 60, I have a lot more slots than most people.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:09.440
Most people, if you think about it, even just from an email standpoint, most people email their list once a week, 52 times in a year.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:12.239
I email three times a week, so I have three times that.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:22.320
But most people, one time a week, if they have their own launches or doing their own, you know, stuff, they probably are gonna email their list two or three times out of the month about their own stuff.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:28.960
So that leaves one slot per month for a collaboration email, so it's 12 times.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.639
And then you're also competing on past collaborations I have done well, and so they're gonna say yes to those.
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:44.320
So the numbers keep dwindling, and you probably only have six to eight-ish slots of possibility to collaborate with each individual person.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.920
And so when you think in that way, it's not like a scare tactic or like, oh my gosh, there's not enough slots, blah.
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.199
It's like that's how intentional you need to be then.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.519
Like, why should you have one of these six to eight spots?
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:57.840
Right.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:03.039
And so I come with that same again, Hudzpa of just like one of those slots is mine.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:10.960
So let me just go on ahead and fill it with exactly what's gonna help you and your goals help me and my goals, and we have a shared goal, all is well in the world.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:21.679
But I think that again, people pitch as if people just don't have things to do or like aren't filling their time with things that are building their businesses.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:28.480
Like, I could just run my business and like do well, like and not be bothered by anybody.
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:41.360
And a lot of people are that way, and so there's a it's important to really honor that people are taking time out of their promotional calendars, out of taking, you know, a slot that could make them money, right?
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.840
Because most of us can send an email and make money.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:54.480
Having that understanding will also help you to have a little bit more grace and appreciation for when you are sharing opportunities with people.
00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:11.840
And I find when people come with more of that uh tone, so to speak, it it really does help to get more yeses because then it doesn't feel like, again, people are just spraying and praying and taking clips out of your website and doing crazy stuff.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:25.119
Like there's the likelihood of yes is going to be higher when you recognize that they are busy or recognize that they do have a lot going on, and this isn't a diversion from that, this is in support of that.
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:37.599
I really love what you guys are saying, and you know, just to kind of reiterate one point you we kind of glossed over is no cold pitching, which I think is important.
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.480
Like what you're saying is smart and not hard to do.
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.519
Like, go think about what they would appreciate.
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.320
Oh, a review on my podcast, a comment on my post.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:52.880
There's so many ways for free and relatively no time we can support and show up, and that means a lot.
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.800
I think we don't realize how much that means.
00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:03.920
But then now, Jordan, when you slide into the DMs or the email, you're not a stranger, and there is a huge gap that's been bridged just from that alone.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.440
I think that's really powerful.
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.880
But then what you guys are saying is structure the pitch around the win-win, right?
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.639
Like find the win-win, where choose partnerships based on win-win.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:20.880
But then if you can go in and show that you're thoughtful of, hey, I understand you, I understand how this could be a win for you.
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.840
And then let me tell you how it could be a win for me, that is always gonna be successful.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:37.519
And it's funny, like Mariah, we laughed about the example she gave, but honestly, even just getting pitches for this podcast, what I see, like 90% of the pitches we get, it's what she described.
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:38.880
It's like weird.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.199
They have this template and they're just like rinsing and repeating, and they're cold.
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:47.199
So what I'm getting cold hits, and I'm getting people that have not thought about us.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:48.320
So that's two strikes.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.199
And how easy is it just to like be a little thoughtful?
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.559
So that I think that is very wise words, and unfortunately, not practice a ton.
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.039
I'm not sure why, because it does seem kind of logical.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:03.039
But you mentioned like the math.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.800
I would love to get into how do you calculate ROI for these kind of things?
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.440
Like, what is a win and what is a loss that wasn't worth my time?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:26.719
Because I was telling Mariah before this, anytime I've ever done anything like this, and I go in with like hard, I want these outputs, I don't get those outputs, but I do get wins in weird other ways that I never could have predicted.
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.599
So it's like kind of hard to measure.
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.079
And then even if it's not what is expected, it's still awesome in some other outputs.
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:39.599
So tell us a bit about how you think of ROI and like if you would do something again or not do it again.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:40.800
Totally.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:42.400
I love this question.
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:50.960
So I definitely go into it knowing if it's a visibility ROI, if it's gonna be a lead ROI, if it's gonna be a sale ROI.
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.920
I can pretty much, again, at this point in business, anyway.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.920
I may not have known that at the very beginning because you got to kind of get your feet wet.
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.239
But there are definitely ones where I'm like, this is 100% a visibility play.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.920
I have no expectations of someone signing up from my email list, no expectations of somebody buying anything from me.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:14.800
And so my call to action, oddly enough, which sounds weird, is just go connect with me on Instagram.
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.519
And the reason for that is I also do run ads.
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.239
So I'll spider web you and eventually you'll come around.
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:25.039
But even if you're running just like live visibility ads.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:38.079
So I and I found that again, there's tons of people that I have done the call to action of, hey, come connect with me on Instagram, because you know, things are flowing and I'm active there, like don't send them dumb or dead.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.000
Um that people eventually do come around.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:47.760
But I just know that those people are gonna be a longer play, usually because their audience is not exactly my audience.
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:56.559
So it could be like a degree off, or because I know that again, they may be earlier in their business journey.
00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:04.960
And so cool, I'll I'll say hello now, and then I know eventually I'm just gonna be the person you have in mind when you're like ready to go there.
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:11.199
And then with leads play, that one obviously gets a little bit more strategic on the numbers and stuff.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:16.719
So I, when it comes to okay, I know this is gonna be a leads play.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.800
I uh for me, it's really simple.
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:22.800
I just I keep it pretty straightforward.
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.920
In my kit, I just create a landing page.
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:36.880
It's usually duplicated of whatever freebie it is that I'm sharing about, and I then just have the direct numbers because that's the only people coming to that link.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:43.599
I can easily see it in kit and it it tags them and says, you know, where they're coming from.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.400
Um, because I have a custom field to get a little nerdy.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.519
I have a custom field in kit that says source.
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:59.599
And so um how I have it set up is again, if it's blank, then it will fill in, you know, Shay's podcast I was on, or it'll say so.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.679
Conference I spoke at.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:14.400
Um, but if it does have a source in there, then it's not going to um change it, which is important because then when I go back and look at sources, that's the first action someone took.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:29.199
And so then I can go back and look at the end of the year, pull all of my forms together that were from uh uh collaborations and actually see was it just my same people they went to go listen to the podcast and then they came and signed up for something, which is cool.
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.760
How many are actually brand new to me?
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.920
And that was the first action that they took is they came and downloaded this free thing.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.719
So I'm able to see that data really cleanly in kit.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.639
Um, who's an email marketing platform for those of you who may not know?
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:55.679
But I that's kind of my leads ROI play is I'm able to, again, throughout the year, just see about how many people came from podcasts, how many came from hearing me speak on stage, how many came from wherever, and then the data's really clean.
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.440
Sales visibility is super specific.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.119
I don't do as many of those.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:10.239
Not because I couldn't, but because I see collaborations more on the visibility lead side.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.760
But I will explain on the sales side.
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:16.320
Um, I'll share a few different examples.
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:21.119
One is uh Gemma Bottom Carter is a sales ROI for me.
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:25.440
Our audiences are lockstep, like they could not be more of a match.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.079
Whenever I pitch her stuff, when she pitches my stuff, people just buy.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.320
So basically, anytime Gemma says, Hey, I'm doing something, I say yes to it.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.239
Um, same thing with her.
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.840
And so, you know, and that's just a beautiful, and we've had a friendship for a really long time.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.559
So, but then I know.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:50.719
So, like for example, Gemma has a summit coming up in May, and I then know, okay, this is a sales thing.
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:58.000
So now I'm gonna orient my marketing promo calendar and I'm gonna have it's gonna be about micro tools and AI.
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:03.199
I'm gonna have two weeks later a micro tool mastery live intensive.
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:11.360
So when I'm on at Gemma's doing my thing and it's gonna be a live interview, I know I'm going to get sales for that thing in two weeks.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:15.920
And I'm purposely gonna put it there because I know I'm gonna get sales.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:26.719
So that's like a whole, but again, I don't do too many of those because I do orient my calendar generally speaking around that to ensure that it is tight and that it is gonna be as direct as possible.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:30.719
Because I wouldn't want to go on there and be like, hey, sign up for something that's happening in October.
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.480
There, forget about it.
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:35.280
It's that then this it's the sales RI isn't there.
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:40.480
Um, so I probably, yeah, I probably only need to do about three of those a year.
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.519
Um, and another person is Ashley who does air table stuff, systems related.
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.559
Like that's just a win of an audience, um, naturally.
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.280
So um she does more launch-oriented.
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:56.159
So I usually will at the beginning of the year ask her when her launches are.
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:57.360
I'll pick one.
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:09.280
And then I will again just orient and do a longer like email campaign or just do more promo for that because I know that I'm gonna get sales, affiliate sales from her on the back end.
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:11.840
So that one is knowing she's great for my audience.
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:15.840
I don't really, I mean, I could sell to her audience, I guess, but I don't, it's fine.
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.920
Like I don't do the tit for tat thing.
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:25.119
Um, so that's another way that again, it's a win for my people because I know they're gonna want what she has.
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:32.400
And so therefore, I will orient my promo calendar to make sure that that's plugged in and is prioritized.
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:44.559
So kind of an example of the ROI through all of it and then how I not almost say capture people, it sounds like I'm a pirate, but just how do I collect people at each of the different ROI stages?
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:49.599
Yeah, and I think it just goes to show that like all of this shit started from a relationship.
00:47:49.760 --> 00:48:01.039
You didn't know that Gemma's audience was gonna be lockstep with yours, or that Ashley that your audience was going to really love when Ashley launches this program and then you would make affiliate sales.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:15.679
You kind of had to build a relationship, probably test it out with maybe like a smaller collaboration, maybe it was like a podcast interview, and then it was like, oh shit, like I got a lot of link clicks in my email from this podcast interview.
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.840
Maybe we have a really great overlapping audience.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.039
And so I'm really glad that you shared that because that's a very advanced way to handle collaborations.
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:38.239
Yeah, like I don't I've been doing collaborations for a decade and I have not even thought about reorienting my marketing around somebody else's launch, but it makes sense.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:45.760
Like if your if your calendars and your marketing and your audiences really align, you would be a silly little goose not to do that.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.679
But when you're first getting started, it's like start small.
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:54.960
Uh, I I did want to share, I used to talk about this thing called a collaboration ladder.
00:48:55.039 --> 00:49:02.400
And people would be like, Well, how do you like move up the like how do you get like bigger collaborations with people, which is kind of what you're saying?
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:22.239
And I'd be like, Well, the very first rung on the ladder that I have found work really well for me, if you're afraid to like cold pitch them, you know, something that feels like I don't want to say intense, but somebody that's something that's maybe a little time consuming is to pitch them something super easy where you're featuring them.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.039
So my favorite one to do is like an expert roundup of something.
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.719
And so I'll reach out to people, and I just did this in the beginning of the year.
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:32.239
It was other SEO experts.
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.079
Everybody's freaking out about AI.
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.159
What is SEO in 2026?
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:36.800
That type of thing.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.960
So I reached out to 15 other SEO experts.
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.920
I go, yo, I literally need like little clips from these two questions.
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:42.960
Fill out this form.
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.199
I'll link to your website, you'll get a backlink.
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:47.360
I'm gonna share it on my audience.
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:48.559
It'll take you three seconds.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.719
I'll let you know you can share it with your audience.
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:58.079
Most people, I think 85% of the people that I pitched to fill out that form, filled out that form and it was so easy.
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:09.039
Now I'm liking all their shit on threads, I'm liking all their stuff on Instagram, just because we collaborated, but like in the tiniest little micro shift.
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.719
And now I had a client who's actually a better fit for this other SEO person.
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:19.519
And I was like, hey girl, hey, like just sending this person over, yada yada, and like I didn't feel like I was like, Well, hello there.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.679
Um, I'm just wondering.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.159
I was like, nah, we have already talked in the email.
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.639
You have filled up my Google form, we are basically best friends.
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.760
Like, what's up?
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.159
And just being direct, like, being direct is so fucking helpful.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:39.039
I just wanted to reiterate that because, like, being direct is not mean not being kind.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:45.039
I think that some people are like, well, if I'm being direct, then I'm not being kind or I'm not being curious enough.
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.920
No, I want to spend time with my husband, I want to go for a walk.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:48.880
Like, just be direct.
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:49.440
What do you want?
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:50.960
I'll let you know if this works for me.
00:50:51.119 --> 00:51:02.000
Like this in this part, I feel like is really where that line, like it's not personal, it's business sometimes where it's like I literally just need to know directly.
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.599
Like, this isn't personal at this moment if we've never collaborated before.
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.119
Like a lot of the times, it's really like, does this work for my business, my calendar?
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.559
Yada, yada, yada.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:18.719
So I just wanted to share that in terms of like an idea for something really small that people can get started with.
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:24.480
And then I even had a client in my SEO membership, and she was like, Well, I want to do an expert roundup.
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:26.079
How do I do it?
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:38.559
Reach out to people, you just slide into their DMs because I think we forget how great does it feel when somebody's like, Jordan, you're a fucking expert in collaborations.
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:41.039
Can you come and share like your brain?
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:43.199
People think you have to like pitch harder than that.
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.280
And like a lot of the times it's like, no, just tell me how how good I am.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:47.920
Right.
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:48.639
Exactly.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:50.239
Fluff me up a little bit.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:51.199
Yes.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:51.920
Yeah.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:52.480
Yeah.
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:55.840
So where I guess that leads me to my next question.
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:01.119
Where do you, or because your I think that your answer might be different.
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:02.559
So maybe we can answer this two part.
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:04.719
Where do you find people to collaborate with?
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:12.239
And where new people never done a collaboration in their entire life, where would they find people to collaborate with?
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:25.280
So for me, I again I pretty much hang out on Instagram and Threads, and I I it's weird.
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:33.920
It's this is like feels more recent, uh, is threads, which is interesting because I like to see people's point of view.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:39.360
I like to see like how you conduct yourself a little bit.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:46.639
Um, and so, you know, I have like a little folder-y thing on threads, which is like I I like what she said here.
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:50.719
And like if I wanted to have somebody talk about this, like I would want her to talk about it.
00:52:50.960 --> 00:53:00.719
Um, and so you think like, oh, your content is just like for your customers or for your audience or whatever, but also like people who are true collaborators, we're we're looking into everything.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.440
Um so for me specifically, I like threads.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.880
Um, that doesn't mean that you're even necessarily having to post on threads.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:13.760
It could just be, again, I happen to see your comment or whatever the case is.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:19.360
Um, also, people don't like this one, but events, physical events.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:31.119
Um, I find that I can just trust somebody way more when I'm able to meet them in person, which again means you have to like put on clothes and get out of your house, right?
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:35.599
Which I know is like not my favorite either, but also is my favorite.
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:45.119
And I just think that if you're wanting to close the gap and create trust as quickly as possible, there's nothing faster than in-person events.
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:52.559
So, not even speaking, like you're just like attending, like you're just like there hanging out at the tables, whatever.
00:53:52.960 --> 00:54:01.599
Those are the two places that I go, generally speaking, when I'm like, okay, I want to meet some cool people, I want to connect with them, get to know them, etc.
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:13.519
On the flip side, if you're like newer-ish in business and are like, okay, I know some people that I want to bring in, but there's like some gaps and experts that I want for my thing.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:28.239
For me, I would suggest either YouTube because again, there's a lot of people producing really dope long-form content that again, you can get a pulse on their expertise to see if your audience will be interested.
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:30.480
You're gonna get a pulse on how they're going to teach.
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:31.840
So, again, is it confusing?
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:32.559
Is it clear?
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.800
Is it like that sort of thing?
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:54.559
Um, and then also again, if you're newerish in business, but you have communities, like if you're in SEO community, if you're in some other communities, like I've definitely there was a mastermind I was a part of actually when I was more newer in business, and I actually again, I'm a little bold, but just like and creepy.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:55.840
So there's like two layers to this.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.480
But I was like, okay, there's these like six people that I want to connect with.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:07.280
I'm gonna find the people in my mastermind community, which was I think at 20 people at the time, not like my mastermind, but a mastermind I was in.
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:14.480
So I went to those 20 people's profiles and saw who was actually connected to each of these people that I wanted to talk to.
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:20.960
And instead of me, again, having the full kahunes and just going to those people and be like, hey, can you just introduce me to them?
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.679
I put a post that said, Hey, here's the six names of people that I want to be connected to.
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:29.679
If you know them, would you be willing to connect me with those people?
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:30.800
I did it that way.
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:39.440
One, because at least one or two people would probably raise their hand and say, Oh my gosh, yes, like let me connect you with that person, which then has kind of a group think to it.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:45.599
To if somebody else was thinking about it, they're gonna be like, oh shoot, Sandy's gonna connect her with this person.
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:47.840
So I probably should connect her with the other person.
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:58.960
And then the likelihood of me getting connected to all six is higher because there's again a bit of this like group mentality going on of like, we're gonna get behind Jordan and we're gonna share her with the people she wants to be shared with.
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:13.119
So um, if you're newer in business, and again, you don't have to do that creep status of like actually knowing who is connected to who, but just if you're like, hey, I want somebody who does branding for people with ADHD, who do you know?
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:19.760
And would you be willing to connect me or put their Instagrams or their YouTube channels down below so I can, you know, check them out?
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:25.840
Because again, if someone's willing to vouch for somebody, um, that speaks volumes to me.
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:30.719
Um, because people don't have like people don't have to stop the scroll and put a name down.
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.400
And so you have to think about they're willing to publicly say I'm associated with this person.
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:50.639
And so versus again, the one-on-one conversation, not that people aren't going to be as like diligent in one-on-one, but I like that again, there's this publicness about it that says, I'm willing to put my username next to this person's username.
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.119
Okay.
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:54.400
So if I were newer, those are the two things.
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.440
YouTube to like get a feel for how they teach, what they talk about, if it will be good for your audience.
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:04.400
And then secondly, is going into the communities you're already in and say, hey, this is who I'm looking for.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.960
Like put their tag down below, or if you want to do a one-on-one intro, I'm open.
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:12.800
Well, that's so good, Jordan.
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:15.519
You're always on here, and I'm like, what?
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:22.880
Like you always like, I'm a strategic person, but you the way you're able to take it to like the next level, you've like you blow my mind all the time.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:29.039
Um, I want to know your brain is not my brain when it comes to systems and organization.
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:38.880
The idea of managing 50 to 60 collabs in my calendar and the scheduling and the planning, like, how do you keep it all organized?
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:46.400
Like, I would love to hear just like some insights you have, especially with the way that you work with the systems and organization, because I my brain's not like that.
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:53.519
So I'd love to hear more about how you're because it seems like years, at least a year out in advance, you're thinking about and planning and reaching out.
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:54.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.880
Again, for those sales ones, I am about a year in advance.
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.199
Um, and I get those plugged in pretty easily.
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:02.559
Um, for again, the other ones is a little more loosey-goosey.
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:06.400
Again, I have more slots or at bats, so to speak.
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:18.159
So the fact that I do email three times to my list every week, you know, it's not that I need content per se, but again, I can I can shift in mold a little bit more than than most.
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:28.159
So um, I basically have on, and again, I like simple systems, and people are usually pretty uh surprised at how simple they are.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:38.159
So for me, I actually have a Google Calendar that is like my promo calendar on Google, and it's like this teal color, and then I have emoji.
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:47.519
It's basically this like email promo for so-and-so, or I have a little microphone that is for podcasts, or I have a little um something else.
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:48.079
What do I have?
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:50.320
I think I have Sparkle for speaking on stage.
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:58.000
So, like it is able to give me at a glance, and so I can look really quickly at okay, do I have too many collaborations in one month?
00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:59.440
Is there a lot of teal going on?
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:00.960
And that's just a no.
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:14.400
Um, and so because I don't want to actually have to like review and know, like, and have to just dive into all the information for each, I just need a quick glance on just like, is this gonna create whiplash for my audience, right?
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:16.800
Is it gonna be too close and too tight?
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:22.239
Um, and also for me, I I pretty much always negotiate.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.679
Like if people are like, oh, you have to send two emails to your list, you have to do this.
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.599
I'm like, if you want me, I'm one email and I'm one social.
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:34.719
And they either say yes or no to that, and I don't care.
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:39.760
Um so you know, because again, if you don't take the slot, I'm gonna make money from the slot.
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.000
So it's I'm good either way.
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:46.960
So we have to have that again, just ability to negotiate as well.
00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:53.360
But from a system standpoint, it's all just like on my Go calendar into, and I can see what's going on.
00:59:53.599 --> 01:00:01.119
Secondly, is again all of the forms that have to be filled out or all of the, you know, collateral for that.
01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:02.800
Um, there's a few things.
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:10.719
Now I'm like diving into the AI side of it and like having AI do it for me, but that's like a whole nother separate conversation that I don't feel like I have the whole scope to share.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:25.599
But um, again, with forms and things like that, I usually when I get the email, and again, maybe they need something for me, like headshot bio, etc., um, basically I just split view and I have, again, I've filled out how many of these forms.
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:31.599
So I have a list, like a whole document that just is like any question I've ever been asked, basically for any collaboration.
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:37.360
And I am able to just copy paste like a mofo um and make it really fast.
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:49.519
Um, and then again, I also do just like have a general rule of like again, if no one, especially for like speaking engagements or uh again, kind of those bigger collabs, like I'm gonna need a contract.
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:59.760
Like, I'm gonna need an agreement because again, there was a time where I was like asked to speak somewhere and whatever else, and like it's a month out, and I've never gotten a contract.
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:08.559
And I was like, I know you've pubbed me, I know you've promoted me, but like I don't feel comfortable making plans to leave my family.
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:16.159
I don't know what's happening here, like I don't know what's going on, like I don't know if we're like on the same page here, so like I'm sorry I'm gonna have to say no.
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.320
Um, maybe pissed her off, who knows?
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:22.559
I don't care, but we gotta like conduct business, how how business is done.
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.039
So that also is just a big thing for me from a system standpoint.
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:35.280
Um, and so also with um uh even like small things like for podcast guessing.
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:40.000
I guess someone doesn't have a scheduler, like I'm not gonna get on the podcast.
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.800
Like, I don't want to go back and forth with you about times, send me the link because I don't know how to calculate time zones.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:48.239
I don't want to calculate time zones, please, for the love of God.
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.119
So, like, that's like a hard systems role for me.
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:56.800
It's like if you start going back and forth with me on times, like I'm either gonna push back and say, Hey, can you just send me a link?
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:01.119
Or hey, if you don't have a link, like I can't be on your podcast.
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.239
Like, again, call me whatever you want to call me for that.
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.280
But I've it and it's it's a showing up thing.
01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:13.840
It's like I feel confident that we both are gonna show up at the same time and we both are gonna be prepared and we're both on the same page.
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:19.280
So, you know, and so that's really it from a systems perspective.
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:21.599
I do have like a, you know, for the assets.
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.559
So like if I'm speaking, I need to do slide decks or things like that.
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:25.599
I have a folder for that.
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:31.679
Now I use actually gamma for my um, it's an AI tool to create slide decks, which is really fun.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:33.760
So now all my stuff is in gamma.
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:41.599
But, you know, I just have folders like the rest of the people, but I um there's only a few things that I speak about.
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:49.679
And so I really just have to create those lanes and then more on the side of okay, people are coming into my audience.
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.360
That's more about okay, I know I need to send three emails for Gemma's.
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:57.920
She didn't tell me to send three emails, but I'm going to send three emails because I know how important it is.
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:02.239
Um, and so then I need to block those right on my email calendar.
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:14.800
So it's really between Google Calendar, making sure people are using a calendar scheduler, and then having my like massive document of like things people would want from me and being able to just toss it over.
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.719
So it's pretty again, it feels probably sparse for a lot of people.
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:33.280
But again, if I'm creating a uh or doing a lead ROI visibility collab, then again, I just duplicate the uh oh my gosh, the landing page and kit and rename it something and then I move on.
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:38.000
So again, I'm not having to reinvent the wheel too many places, um, just a few.
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:50.320
That actually feels really good because it's like I'm thinking that you got 75 air table base and you're calling your mom's cousin to come and help you, and then you got like some VAs all around.
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:50.960
You know what I mean?
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:53.039
Like it's just 50 to 60 collabs.
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:55.599
That's no small feat.
01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:04.320
So I feel like even you sharing that it's like, no, you can do this shit in like a fucking Google Calendar girl, if like you got your shit together, which is helpful and you want to know what's funny.
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:05.760
I'm over here laughing.
01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:27.519
I think that your pre because you've been on the podcast before, I think that your previous interview is probably what sparked us to even create the scheduling link for our podcast because we were doing we were doing straight up back and forth, and I think you were one of the first people that were doing it for me because I think you literally were like, yo, send me the link.
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:29.760
And I'm like, fuck, Jordan said send me the link.
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.159
And I was like, dude, I think we need to whip up the link.
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:36.559
And I was so me and I was like, fuck, okay, like what days are you together?
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:37.440
And like blah blah blah.
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:43.199
And then we've been using the link, honestly, for only half of the people now, because I'm like, I haven't even taken a look at my availability.
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:44.880
What's even on this fucking link?
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:45.679
Like, I don't know.
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.159
But then we pitched you for this one, and you were like, send the link.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.320
And I was like, I got that link, girl, but I had to.
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:55.360
And I was like, are these dates in the link still linking?
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.719
Like, are we still are we still friends on this day?
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.960
And so it's it's funny, but it does make it easier.
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:05.840
And that's it's essentially how I am too, right?
01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:09.039
It's like, yo, just send me the link, I'll fucking take a look at my schedule.
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:10.000
I can pop on.
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:11.920
Yeah, can you make it easy for me?
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:13.280
That type of thing.
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:18.719
I do want to talk because we get a lot of questions.
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:20.639
No, that's not correct.
01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:21.199
I'm lying.
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:22.559
I'm talking out of my ass.
01:05:22.719 --> 01:05:34.639
Um, what's coming up a lot in conversation is in-person events, especially in the age of AI, and we've been flopping, all of us have been flopping around on the internet for 10 years.
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:35.519
We're hanging out.
01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:40.159
In-person events, you know, they've always been a thing since the beginning of time.
01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:44.159
But like they've popped off even more so.
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:54.559
I feel like, especially after COVID, everybody realizes that they want human connection, and then we have AI happening, and it's like, yo, I'm tired of just like flopping around on my own.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:56.239
Can I flop around with friends?
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:58.400
Like, have an excuse to kind of go and meet.
01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:01.519
But here's the thing they're Fucking expensive.
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.199
You have to a lot of the times get on a flight.
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:06.880
You got to book a hotel.
01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.639
Some of these conference tickets are 1,500 three grand.
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.239
Some of them, it's like, well, do I want to do the VIP night?
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:18.559
Because I mean, me personally, I really like more intimate settings.
01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:34.400
And so it's like if this is a 200-person event and there's a really small VIP night of maybe like even just 60 people, well, I kind of want to do, I would rather do that instead of the event sometimes, just because I like kicking it with people in just smaller settings, but it's a lot.
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.360
And then you have to completely like we just got a puppy.
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:42.400
And I'm just like, okay, well, it's like who's gonna watch this dog while my husband goes to work?
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:44.000
Like it's so much.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:47.599
And I know people that have children, it's a lot to manage.
01:06:47.760 --> 01:07:00.719
So I guess when it comes to collaborations, because you've been a speaker at other events, you've hosted your own event, you've like opened up speaker applications for your own event, you've been on all different sides of this.
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.400
But like, how do you figure out which events are worth it?
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:06.239
Is the first part of the question.
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:15.920
And B, I have found it so hard to manage or figure out the ROI of an event.
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.159
And even like we um connected in person at Kit last year.
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:24.239
And like a lot of the times when you go to a conference, people are like, What are you here for?
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:25.840
What's your goal of the event?
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:29.599
And like people, even like locally networking, they'll be like, Why are you networking?
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:30.320
What is your goal?
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:33.599
And like my response is like, I'm literally just trying to fucking hang out.
01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:36.320
Like, I don't ever go in with a goal.
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:40.639
And me and Shay went together last year, and we were like, What are we looking to get out of this event?
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:47.119
And I was like, I've rocked my cute little brain about this, but like I keep coming back to I'm just trying to fuck around.
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:54.480
Like, I don't care, but I can't fuck around at five different events every year.
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.440
That's a lot of time that I'm taking away from my business.
01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:00.079
So, like, what what are your thoughts on all of that?
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:01.519
Oh, yeah.
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:05.920
So the first question being the second question is ROI.
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:08.719
The first question was how to find them?
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:12.480
I don't remember my question.
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:14.079
I don't agree.
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:16.079
I'm just gonna start with ROI and then we'll roll back.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:17.359
Just do whatever you want.
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:23.840
Well, I think she's curious about like, okay, Jordan, we see you with 50 to 60 collabs.
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:28.720
And then my first question from Mariah was also, I know Jordan's at events constantly.
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:32.560
And so I'm like, and I don't think she counts those as how do you figure out which ones to go?
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:34.399
So, like, what's worth it?
01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:35.279
How do you decide that?
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:36.800
Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:39.439
Again, thankfully that comes down to relationships.
01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:42.640
Um, to know if it's there honestly.
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:50.960
So if I look back at my arsenal, because there was one year, I think it was 2017, which was my first full year in business.
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:54.079
Um, the year before that, I think was whatever, six months.
01:08:54.399 --> 01:09:01.199
And like I did end up going to probably about 30 in-person events.
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:04.560
Get the fuck out of my face, especially single.
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:05.520
Right.
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:08.960
I was young, I was single, I was doing the most.
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:10.560
Okay, we don't need to do that.
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:14.239
Um I yeah, I've never done 30 events after that.
01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:19.279
But was was that was that including local too, or was that like you traveling?
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:21.119
Okay, both both.
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:32.399
Yeah, but you know, I live in Dallas, Fort Worth, um, for those of you who don't know, and DFW, Austin, Houston, like there's a lot going on between honestly those three cities, and those are all very easy, and you can stay at friends' houses and whatever.
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:44.720
So um how to choose events is really um, or how to like find out about them is honestly network-wise, it's pretty rare that I go to an event and I don't know somebody who's gonna be there.
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:52.079
I think there's only been one event that I did that, um, and it worked out.
01:09:52.399 --> 01:10:01.520
But I I don't usually go to an event that it just is like off on an island somewhere that I've never heard of or that no one around me has ever heard of.
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:03.760
I'm just like, let me just wait that one out.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:07.920
Or if a buddy wants to come with me and you know, frolic, then maybe we'll try it.
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:17.039
But again, to choose like what events to go to because you're leaving your life, you're leaving all stuff, um, and it is expensive.
01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:21.760
Uh what I actually did, so this is for my earlier people.
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:26.239
What I did at those events is I actually would reach out and say, Hey, can I come volunteer?
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:29.359
So then that nixes the ticket price.
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:31.920
And so then I'm able to just go.
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:36.399
I'm usually like at the hook hit the table helping with stuff or I'm stuffing bags or I'm doing whatever.
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:38.159
And then I just get to listening on stuff and whatever.
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:41.920
So I did that a lot in the beginning of my business, probably the first couple years.
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:52.560
And then um moving forward, I agree with you about like the VIP nights and like wanting to be in like the smaller spaces.
01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:55.439
Um, if it is a bigger event, then they don't have a smaller space.
01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:58.319
I usually will just like collect people and create one.
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:05.680
Um, and just like throughout the day of the event, I'm like meeting people and then I'm just like, come find me afterwards and like let's find somewhere for dinner.
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:17.359
But I would say always making sure there's at least one person that you know going because then worst case scenario, y'all have a ball and you know it will work out.
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:28.800
Secondly, knowing things about yourself about like event size, because like I I ended up having to like do something for this event, but HubSpot's event, what the heck is it called?
01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:29.760
Inbound.
01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:32.720
I knew there would be thousands of people.
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:36.399
There was 15,000 people, okay?
01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:48.800
Which like I can't even like share like the sheer volume of people, like it was like a small sporting event, like it was like it was the most people ever.
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:50.479
And I'm like, I will never do that again.
01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:59.039
Lovingly have spot, but just I I know that like I'm kind of like a 200 person nerd under kind of a bank person.
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:02.720
And uh one of the only ones that is more than that is Kit.
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:07.359
And that's just because I know a ton of people, it ends up being like a family reunion for me.
01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:27.680
So knowing that about just like what makes you most comfortable will help you to kind of stay in your lane, and then from a financial standpoint, again, rooming with people, or if I have a friend that's in the area that I can just hang out with and and do that, and then I just have to do Uber into the event every day or whatever.
01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:34.960
Um, I am a bit of a points person, so I do have like I'm a Hilton person and I'm a Southwest Airlines person-ish.
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:36.880
We'll see, because they're driving me crazy right now.
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:40.000
But Southwest and Hilton are like my things.
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:45.119
And so also sticking with those, like I'm able to get opportunities and deals.
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:47.760
I have like a triple A card, which then brings my Hilton down.
01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:51.039
I also, for my lift, goes and brings me Hilton points as well.
01:12:51.199 --> 01:13:06.079
So doing those things that if you know you're gonna want to go to at least a few events, making sure that again, if you're I get like wanting to chase the lowest price, but I have found in my experience, sticking to one has helped to then have points and make stuff free and it ends up working out.
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:10.159
So those are a few of just like again the financial stuff that comes with it.
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:12.319
And I bring a lot of snacks.
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:18.079
Like I, you know, I'm somebody who just I'm not trying to again buy a$15 bag of chips at the airport or whatever.
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:26.960
So I have my water bottle, there's water fountains, like we're just making it work because again, it can get wild really quickly, it can just like go off the freaking rails.
01:13:27.279 --> 01:13:37.600
So um asking to volunteer, like there definitely are people that have volunteered at my events, so it's like, yeah, yeah, come like you can do this, you can do that, whatever.
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:45.119
Um, and then uh two, just again having a buddy to like basically be able to split all the costs for is another big thing.
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:46.159
So that's that.
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:49.359
And then the ROI part from the event of knowing what you want to get out of it.
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:57.119
Again, for me, I usually don't go into any events being like sales, like that just that just doesn't happen.
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:10.399
Um, but what I usually am looking at is again, people who I want to collaborate with, people who I really again admire their like point of view or their perspectives, and I want more of that in my life.
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:14.479
So it's like, let's just like be text friends or boxer friends or whatever.
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:18.560
And so, but if I'm speaking, it's a little bit more like I want leads.
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:26.399
But if I'm an attendee, it's really more visibility, collaborations, those sorts of those sorts of things is really what it what it comes down to.
01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:37.600
So, and how I know I'm gonna get an ROI again leans more to again, if I know somebody who's gone to it or is going to it, and just being familiar with the audience as well.
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:41.199
Like, for example, there's an event in Arizona called Powerhouse.
01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.159
It's an amazing event, and I'm not knocking it in any way, shape, or form.
01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:46.239
I know it would be a nightmare event for me.
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:58.239
Nothing to do with the host, nothing to do with anybody specifically, but again, it's very like everyone has to dress to the nines, everybody has like it's there's just a different vibe.
01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:02.640
They're dancing a lot, like those are just things that like I'm just not gonna like.
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:05.359
And I know it's a great event, people talk about how great it is.
01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:06.640
I will never go.
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:10.800
Not because, again, it's a bad event, but it's just a not right fit for me.
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:12.800
So I'm much more of like a kit vibe.
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:15.520
Again, I'll be cute, I'll be like one level cute.
01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:20.560
But like if you're asking me to be like five levels cute, I probably will never go to your event.
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:22.399
And you shouldn't change your dress code because of that.
01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:25.600
You should just keep with the people who want to do the five dress code, you know.
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:27.920
So another thing to note.
01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:29.119
I love that.
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:36.399
Kit was such a great conference, and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to share my unhinged tack on this podcast when you brought it up.
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:39.920
So we were at Hint uh Kit last year.
01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:43.600
I just um they gave me a bunch of books, like there's books everywhere.
01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:49.840
You're gonna go home with like 45 books, and I got all those books home, and I was like, I don't want all these books at my house.
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.159
And so I just threw them all up on eBay.
01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:54.079
I'm obsessed with eBay if you guys don't know.
01:15:54.239 --> 01:15:55.920
And they all sold like within a month.
01:15:56.079 --> 01:16:00.560
And I was like, if you wanted to pay for her whole trip, just collect all those books.
01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:01.439
Take those.
01:16:02.399 --> 01:16:05.279
I am loving this unhinged hack so very much.
01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:05.840
Oh my gosh.
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:08.640
I didn't go into it with that intention, but it like worked out perfectly.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:12.239
And I was like, well, if I go to Kid again, I'm just gonna grab all those books and it'll help us.
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:17.680
She's gonna need extra luggage because she's gonna be like, Do you guys have any extra books?
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:18.800
Do you want that book?
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:20.880
And everybody's like, right, sure.
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:23.840
No, you can have it, and you're like, Thank you so much, and like running away.
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:25.439
Well, I'm vacant back to last year.
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:26.560
There was whole stacks of books.
01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:29.199
They like I mean, there were huge stacks of books.
01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:30.640
I know it blew my mind.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:32.079
So, anyways, thanks for indulging me.
01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.880
Jordan, this conversation has been.
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:36.159
I love it so much.
01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:37.760
I didn't really know what to expect.
01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:39.760
I was like, oh, collabs, that's interesting.
01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:45.359
But like I've been kind of blown away with all the ways that these collabs have helped y'all's businesses, right?
01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:58.720
Like Mariah brought up at the beginning, this can help SEO, it helps your build network, it helps visibility, like the whole sales cycle, visibility leads, conversions, and then it helps with objection handling.
01:16:58.960 --> 01:17:02.720
Jordan, you brought up something about it, allows you to nurture your current audience.
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:11.920
Like you said, your current people are paying attention to what you're doing, and so they're getting you know a touch from you, which creating super fans is like the most valuable thing we can do.
01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:17.199
So it seems like for start to finish, collaborations are like a boom for business.
01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:21.840
But I'd love to hear, like, in some way from you, what keeps you coming back?
01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:24.319
Like, what is the biggest win of these collabs?
01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:27.439
Like for you, what where is the most value?
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.000
Yeah, that's a great question.
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:39.279
For me, I I just find joy in like cheering people on and being a part of their stuff.
01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:47.199
Like I, or having people be a part of my stuff, I think there's you know, you can do business alone.
01:17:47.279 --> 01:17:51.760
I do a lot of just like vibe coding in my bed and like chilling, and that's fun for me too.
01:17:51.920 --> 01:17:54.880
And doing my survivor reruns, Mariah, we got a lot to talk about.
01:17:55.119 --> 01:18:09.840
But like I find that when you are able to like truly create a win-win with people and like have it be a success for both parties in whichever way they're looking for, that's just fun.
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:18.800
There's just, I don't know if it's like a maybe it's addictive for me, I don't know, obsessive, but like I I genuinely get uh a ton of joy from that.
01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:24.000
And so I don't have to then there is a business side to it.
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:35.840
I can't just be frolicking the internet, but just for me, there is a level of genuine joy, and I think that comes across to people, and people know like when Jordan is sharing something, it's coming from a place of joy.
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:40.000
Like, if I am not interested, I'm I'm just gonna say no and I'm gonna move on.
01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:46.079
And so if I am sharing something, it's something that I find extremely important, whether it's for me or for my audience.
01:18:46.399 --> 01:18:58.960
And that helps come across because, like you said, uh Shay about super fans or just people paying attention to, if you're just wing-dinging things every week to people, it's like, do you even know this person?
01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:00.640
Like, is this an internet friend?
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:02.399
Like, what are we what are we doing here?
01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:04.479
Are you just getting paid to promote this?
01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:06.640
Like, right, exactly.
01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:34.640
So, you know, I think that it's really important to keep a pulse and a connection to potential collaborators and stuff like that, because also I think when you look at people who do just build businesses alone and who are isolated and whatever else, they may have a bigger business, so to speak, from a revenue, whatever standpoint, because they aren't distracted, they aren't being pulled in any directions, they're just like in their lane.
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:42.399
And at the same time, a lot of times I hear about way more burnout stories from those people or stories of like I hated my business and whatever.
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:50.399
And it's like, well, if you had people around you to like check you or to challenge you or to support you or to whatever, you might have caught that earlier.
01:19:50.560 --> 01:19:56.159
But because you're in an in a whatever isolated state, it might take you longer to realize that.
01:19:56.239 --> 01:20:00.159
And it may go to a place of, you know, knocking out your health or whatever the case is.
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:03.520
So I think that it's just it's a healthy way to go about business.
01:20:03.680 --> 01:20:05.199
It's a fun way to go about business.
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:13.760
And so that's that's really where where I come from and why I keep coming back and being the insane person that I am doing 50 to 60 a year.
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:16.800
Yeah, that was the part that struck me.
01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:21.840
I was like, maybe you're just having the opportunity to have some fun and have some human connection, right?
01:20:21.920 --> 01:20:30.319
And if I'm the lone wolf in my silo, of course, I'm gonna get burnt out and kind of miss a joyful parts of the work that I'm doing, right?
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:34.640
And so I um I like I said, I'm just totally taken aback.
01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:36.720
Thank you for sharing your expertise on this with us.
01:20:36.880 --> 01:20:39.680
Before we get into the curiosity question, I do want to check in with Mariah.
01:20:39.760 --> 01:20:43.039
Do you have any other like final questions about collabs that you want to wrap up?
01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:46.560
No, I was just gonna say, like, they're just fucking fun.
01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:48.079
They're just fucking fun.
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:51.039
It's a fun fucking way to run your business.
01:20:51.199 --> 01:21:09.520
Like when you feel passionate about your zone of genius, and then you connect with other people that also feel passionate about their zone of genius, and then you come together and both of you share your passions about this kind of stuff, it helps your audience because there's a lot of fucking weirdos online and like scammers and stuff like that.
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:15.760
And so, like just being able to develop your own network, being able to be a resource for yourself, for your people.
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:27.439
I just when you come from a place of joy and passion and fun, it really does keep you sustained for the long haul, kind of what you're doing, like what you're saying.
01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:32.399
But we do have one more question before that we ask everybody on the podcast.
01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:35.279
So, what's been sparking your curiosity lately?
01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:39.600
Oh my gosh, I'm going down quite a rabbit hole right now.
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:50.319
Two days ago, I was like, okay, I'm gonna get a Mac mini and I'm gonna go like full force into like how much can I automate in my business using AI.
01:21:50.960 --> 01:22:01.359
And again, without the relationship part, that's something that I'm just I personally just have a hard line on where I'm just that's just not where I'm gonna go when it comes to automating stuff.
01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:04.479
But pretty much everything else, I'm like, what can we do?
01:22:04.720 --> 01:22:14.720
And so I found um, or I remembered that I actually had kept like an old 2019 iMac, and so I pulled that bad boy out on Saturday.
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:40.800
And so your girl is going to be an absolute psychopath, and that computer is gonna be doing all sorts of magical things all day, every day for me, and I'm just super excited because you think about just how much we had to do before AI, and as someone who is like again, I'm stretched for time, I'm stretched because of my chronic illnesses.
01:22:40.960 --> 01:22:43.359
Like, there's only so much truly I can do.
01:22:43.600 --> 01:23:08.159
And so, to be given this opportunity to have a really robust system to be able to help support me, to be able to achieve at a level that I want to achieve, it's like such a dream come true, and that does not negate all of the craziness that is AI because I'm watching that too, and there is some scary stuff, so this is not just like a 100% pro AI for everybody, all the things.
01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:16.560
And for me, it really gives me an opportunity to do the things again at the level that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.
01:23:16.720 --> 01:23:29.520
So it's it's a feels like an accessibility um opportunity for me to just be like, okay, for people who have eight hours a day to work, what could happen if you know something was was doing something for me for eight hours?
01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.399
So that's what I'm genuinely curious about.
01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:40.720
And, you know, then also being able to share that with other people because I just have a big community of people who are stretched capacity-wise.
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:45.520
So I want to be able to share kind of my findings and what I'm learning out about.
01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:47.760
So that's what I'm curious about right now.
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:55.359
My husband and I were also digging old Macs out of the basement two weekends ago so Claude can have his own machine to work on.
01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:57.199
So I know exactly what you mean.
01:23:57.279 --> 01:24:00.159
And I can't wait to hear what you uncover from that process.
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:01.600
So please share that with us.
01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:04.640
Um, well, Jordan, it's always uh so fun.
01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:07.119
You always help me reconnect with the fun and the joy of this.
01:24:07.199 --> 01:24:09.199
Thank you for coming back on the podcast.
01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:15.760
Um, we'll make sure, actually, before we close down, where shouldn't our listeners connect with you, follow you?
01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:17.439
What do you have going on right now?
01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:18.239
Totally.
01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:29.439
So Instagram's my jam, still, or threads, like I said, if you're like wanting to share point of views and like go into the depths of like the paradise season finale and all these things, totally down to do that.
01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:32.319
Threads or Instagram are kind of my jams.
01:24:32.560 --> 01:24:36.239
Um, and you'll know whatever the latest things are that I'm shenanigans that I'm up to.
01:24:36.399 --> 01:24:37.680
It's gonna be out there somewhere.
01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:39.279
So yeah, those two places.
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:41.199
There's something cool going on on threads.
01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:43.359
I enjoy following you and Brian there for sure.
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:44.560
Um, all right, guys.
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:46.319
Well, follow us in those places.
01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:48.079
Thank you so much for sticking around this long.
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:50.239
I think we're ready to close this episode down.
01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:53.840
Remember, friends, you have the power to create whatever the hell you want.
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.600
Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
01:24:57.760 --> 01:24:59.840
We'll see you in the next episode.
00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.720
Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.640
We're your hosts, Mariah.
00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:14.400
And hey guys, I'm Shay.
00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:20.879
We're two online business consultants passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:24.160
We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:27.839
And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:33.039
Especially if we want to create a life that feels good from the inside out.
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:40.240
So if you're ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way, let's get into the episode.
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:48.799
Okay, so for this episode, we're talking about one of my favorite topics in the online space that I feel like I don't get to talk about too much.
00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:58.320
Maybe because I've naturally kind of just weaved collaborations into my business and kind of just that's kind of just, I don't know, that's exactly what this podcast is.
00:00:58.399 --> 00:00:59.039
You know what I mean?
00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:01.200
Like that's kind of just how I think about business.
00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:05.120
But it was cool to bring Jordan Gill back on the podcast.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:13.680
She was also previously on the podcast, but I wanted her to come back and really talk about her zone of genius, which is collaborations.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:18.879
And I talk a little bit more about this when, you know, when we're introing her in the actual episode itself.
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:35.040
But the cool thing is, since we recorded this, Jordan Gill loves collaboration so much that she started working with Kit, formerly Convert Kit, like as their affiliate manager.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:35.840
I think that's her title.
00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:36.400
I might be lying.
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.159
So, Jordan, if I'm fucking that up, I'm sorry.
00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:53.439
Uh, but it's like she loves collaboration so much, she's literally helping my favorite email marketing software with collaborations from like a software perspective and like reaching out and connecting even deeper with business owners.
00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:55.680
And I know that that was a huge shift in her business.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:00.480
I've read like a bunch of posts that she kind of mentioned about this when she was announcing the transition.
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:12.319
And she was running her business for 10 years by herself, and then she saw this opportunity posted on LinkedIn and she read it and she was like, I didn't expect that this is where 2026 was gonna go.
00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:22.000
But she said that she read the um like job description, the job description over on LinkedIn, and she was like, Oh my god, this is me.
00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.319
And then she ended up getting it, and it's really cool.
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.080
She's like still sharing about her business.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:37.680
I'm on her email list, she's still sending emails, but now it's just cool that she's gonna get this whole other level of collaborations, and I I know how her brain works.
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:43.919
She's gonna be weaving this stuff, and we're all gonna be able to gather the juice from like all of the things that she's learning.
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.039
So I'm really excited for her and I'm really excited for Kit.
00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:54.000
It's funny how you know, I don't even think Jordan could have foreseen that this opportunity would come up.
00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:57.520
And we recorded this episode before she made the change.
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:08.560
So it's interesting that like one of the skills that you develop while running your business can eventually turn into uh expertise that you have that you can get then go work in a different organization.
00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:17.199
And and where this whole season is like kind of bridging the gap between working for yourself online or maybe going back in person and working in your community or working for a company.
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:28.000
So seeing our friends here follow their curiosity ultimately and be open and flexible and kind of just go with whatever is feeling energizing in that moment is really refreshing.
00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.319
Obviously, we we're big fans.
00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:32.800
Um, I am blown away in this episode.
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:39.840
I think if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably label yourself as a strategic person or you've got a strategic mind.
00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:46.159
Jordan to me is like the next level strategic mastermind genius.
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:52.960
Like you'll hear her talk about this insane calendar and 50 plus partnerships and collaborations.
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.080
And each thing she's doing is so intentional.
00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:02.159
Like, not only is it for the purpose of collaborating, it's also checking like 10 other boxes in her business.
00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:10.080
Just the way she thinks about the big ecosystem and how everything works together really it should it shocked me.
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:10.719
It was awesome.
00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.800
Like it's really cool to see her mind and how she applies it to things.
00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:23.920
I felt really energized and encouraged and just knowing that it's possible to hold as much as she holds and still like have a life and be so cool and down to earth.
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:30.000
And she's just a lovely human, and we're really um always really feeling blessed when she decides to come back on the podcast.
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.439
So a little bit about Jordan.
00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:40.240
She's a business strategist and international speaker whose mission is for high-achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:50.160
Her Apple Top 100 Entrepreneur podcast, Systems Saved Me, goes behind the scenes of businesses to spotlight the invisible systems you've never seen or heard of.
00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.600
If you guys want to check out the rest of her bio, make sure to click on the link in our show notes, to our show notes.
00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.160
And with that, let's jump into the episode.
00:04:58.639 --> 00:04:59.360
All right, y'all.
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:01.759
We have a special episode here.
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:03.120
Jordan Gill.
00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:12.720
I'm so excited for this, for this interview because collabs is really like one of Jordan's zones of genius.
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:18.959
And it pairs really well with my zone of genius in terms of SEO, right?
00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:25.360
Because a lot of the times I'm helping clients, you know, we're finding keywords, we're getting their website rip roar and ready to roll.
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.360
And then it's like, how do I keep moving forward?
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:34.639
And a lot of the times I'm telling people, I'm like, yo, you got to collab with people because that's how we get backlinks, that's how we get brand authority.
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.560
Like all of this, it is connected, even though it might not see that it might not seem so on the outside.
00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.319
And so I've been collaborating in my business ever since the beginning.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:49.040
I feel like that's really where I gain the confidence in order to keep moving forward and keep building.
00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:55.839
But I have people come to me all the time and they're like, okay, Mariah, you say to collab, or you say to like collab with people and complimenting industries.
00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:56.959
I say that all the time.
00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:59.040
And then I'm like, How the fuck do I get started?
00:05:59.120 --> 00:05:59.920
I was like, what do you mean?
00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:00.639
Like you just do it.
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:02.560
And then I told Jordan that I say that to people.
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:07.199
And she's like, oh girl, I will, I will tell them what to do because like I don't remember.
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:08.160
I'm like, what do you mean?
00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:14.240
You just like slide into somebody's DMs and you're just like, you wanna do something together?
00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:15.920
Because that's literally what I do.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:17.120
And I'm like, what do you mean?
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:18.720
Like, people don't feel comfortable doing that?
00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:20.480
What like how?
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:20.959
Why?
00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:39.279
Like, I don't remember the very beginner basic steps or even some of the more advanced steps that I'm really excited to dive into you, dive into with you about because you just approach collaborations from a really strategic, but yet really fun place.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.160
And I'm excited to kind of hear your brain on it.
00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.480
So, all of that, thanks so much for coming on.
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:46.720
Yes, that was a wonderful intro.
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:52.240
And I'm excited to learn out, yeah, about the beginnings, the middles, the ends, the the whole gamut.
00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.040
Well, can I like pop in?
00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.160
I want you to.
00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.079
This is not my zone of genius.
00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:04.800
I do a bit of this, and I'd love to hear, like, when you guys say collabs, I don't even really know like where does that start and finish?
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.040
Like, how do you guys define collaborations?
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:08.160
Yeah.
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:14.800
So for me, any collaboration is when, again, two or more parties are sharing an end goal.
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:21.199
So that end goal could be again, you go on a guest podcast and you want people to learn about me.
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:22.800
I want people to learn about y'all.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.319
And so that's a collaboration.
00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.680
Um, it could be, oh, someone's wanting you to speak in their community.
00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:35.519
So that is a shared win because they're looking for an expert in whatever it is you teach, and then you are looking for an audience to be able to share what you teach.
00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:36.800
So that's a collaboration.
00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:43.040
It could be bundles, summits, a lot of those that are uh typical in our industry.
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:57.439
It could be again virtual conferences, it could be uh joint ventures, which is honestly a big, wide bubble, but most people understand it as like a JV webinar where again, maybe I have a webinar that I want to take on tour.
00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:04.480
And so I'm going to look for partners instead of doing a big launch and have all the affiliates join or all the people join.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:09.439
I want to do a joint venture and just do my webinar for one audience at a time.
00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.480
Uh, so those are a few collaborations.
00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.240
I have like a list of 16, uh, but I can't just like rattle them off the top of my head.
00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:23.839
But those are some examples of ones that I've done and that people may be familiar with and kind of understand this collaboration.
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.040
Yeah, it's essentially just like sharing an audience.
00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:33.519
So, like one of the things that you have to keep in mind is like, do you want to share this person's audience?
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:39.519
But it's like it's like a huge thing where it's like, do I want to get in front of this person's audience?
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.039
Are they my kind of people?
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:42.480
That type of thing.
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:46.720
Jordan, once you how did you even like what was your first collaboration?
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.279
How did you even get started doing this?
00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:50.720
Was it like on accident?
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:55.279
Yeah, I think I'm just a naturally collaborative person.
00:08:55.840 --> 00:09:00.159
And uh except for like group projects in high school, college.
00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:01.679
I was just talking to my husband about this.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:07.360
I was like my group project almost tanked my last semester campaign project.
00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.759
I didn't let it happen because I'm me.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:16.240
Uh, but since that time in my life, I feel that I've just always been collaborative in nature.
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:24.399
I think one of my first collaborations was probably me speaking in someone else's community.
00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:29.919
And that was uh in a joint venture kind of format.
00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:38.559
And I I don't know if I knew that that's what it was at the time, but that's what it was, where it was like, hey, I have this thing, your audience might want it, do they want it?
00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:54.879
And so, and at that point, I was just like, that makes the most sense to me instead of trying to always like with social media and stuff, which I love Instagram, but like instead of trying to go one-to-one in that way, I want to go one to many.
00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:04.080
Like, I just want to find the ponds that my people are already in and me just hop to each of them versus again trying to have a ton of one-on-one conversations.
00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.200
So yeah, I think my first one was joint venture.
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:14.080
It's usually not people's first, it was either joint venture or guest podcast, one or the other, because I had a podcast at the time.
00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:17.679
And so then when I first started my podcast, it's like, okay, well, how do I get listeners?
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:18.799
How do I get people?
00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:19.840
Hello.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.000
Um, and so a lot of times people will do guest swaps.
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.879
And so that was definitely something I was doing in the beginning of my podcast was okay, I'll be on yours, you'll be on mine.
00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:36.480
And again, it's just I think that so many people make it a bigger thing than it needs to be.
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:41.200
And I love Mariah that you mentioned that it's just like, hey, you want to do something cool together?
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:53.679
Like, and that is a totally fine and like great approach because it also is so different from the people who are trying to, because there can be something like over strategic, right?
00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:59.919
Where it's just like, okay, you're doing too much, you're asking too much, you're coming at me full force.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.440
That's a little cray.
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.200
Uh, so you kind of have to find that middle ground for yourself where it is like, hey, you want to do something cool together.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:12.159
And also, like, here's why strategically it makes sense for us to do so, right?
00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.080
I'm like a super literal thinker.
00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.240
So if you don't mind, like, share with us.
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:24.480
You know, you say, like, you'll reach out to people and be like, I think I have this thing and I think your audience will like it.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:28.000
I I kind of start to draw a blank around like, what is this thing?
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:29.279
Like, how did you come up with?
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.159
Because I agree with you, like, you're not doing a full course.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.240
You're doing kind of this little kind of teaser.
00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:37.679
So, how did you come up with the things, you know, or did you have them already?
00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.080
And like, what does that look like actually?
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:41.200
Yes.
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:51.200
So I'm big on peer-to-peer collaboration versus like feeling like I want to go for like the big fish, the big kahunas of your industry.
00:11:51.519 --> 00:12:01.039
Not that you can't or that you shouldn't, but just for me, what I found the most success with is like, hey, we're kind of on like the same playing field.
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:19.759
And so that always feels way more comfortable to me than again trying to get enough husband, so to speak, to like go after the big ones, which is just really hard because the bigger, the people with the big audiences and the shiny names, they a lot of times have their whole marketing calendar built for the year.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.240
A lot of times they already have friends who are in your space that they already refer for.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:30.799
So it just again, I I think people just miss out on so much side to side.
00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:35.679
If you just like look left to right, you don't need to look up, and you're gonna find really great people.
00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:47.200
So that already kind of like lowers the I guess anxiety, so to speak, or the nervousness about okay, you know, what is this thing that I have to like impress people with and whatever?
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:52.879
Because it's like, hey, it's like we're like peers, and you know, level up, level down, who cares, right?
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:58.240
So that's one thing to kind of just like make things not feel as intense.
00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.799
And then the thing could be multiple, multiple things, right?
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:13.919
So for me, uh, when I'm collaborating, it usually is some sort of like speaking, whether it's me speaking to some someone's community or they're speaking to my community.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:24.159
Um and then it also is about well, for some people, it's just about audience size or audience match.
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.080
And then some people, it's about money, like, are you gonna pay me to come be in here?
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.039
But I have like a bunch of other reasons why I would say yes to something that may not be audience and money.
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.039
So you can kind of adapt your thing to that.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:47.600
So for example, there was a a I guess it was a summit, and it was all about burnout, and it was actually a group of therapists, which isn't my normal crew, nothing wrong with that, but just not my normal crew.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:49.679
And so I was like, okay, interesting.
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.320
But she spoke about burnout, and that is something that we both related to.
00:13:54.399 --> 00:14:04.559
And so while maybe I would get some audience, maybe whatever, but because I'm passionate about the mission and we have that joint mission, I was like, yes, like I know I'm gonna enjoy that.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:12.080
I know that I'll get a sprinkle of people, but for me, my mission was more important than money or audience match necessarily in that moment.
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:29.919
So you can sometimes, I don't want to say get away with, but you can sometimes connect with and collaborate with people who you may not have thought you would collaborate with just because you share a vision or again, there's some sort of alignment outside of audience and money that is more heart-centered.
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:40.320
Um, and so your thing could be again, community, it could be podcast, it could be webinar, it could be all sorts of things.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:51.840
But you know, how you figure out if that's something people want to do or if their audience even will resonate, because like for me, people will pitch me during venture webinars.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.360
And I'm like, the only webinars my people will go to are systems.
00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:57.919
Like, and I've to I've been doing this for 10 years.
00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.759
I do 50 to 60 collabs a year.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:01.519
I know what my people want.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:11.200
And so I just have to say no, even if I love the person, even if I know their program is dope, even if I know all the things, I'm like, listen, it's just not gonna work for my audience.
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:12.159
Like, I just know.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:22.480
Um, so that also is important to collaborate with people who know their people and also respect their own audiences in their own right.
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:24.879
Because again, I'm not just gonna shuffle stuff to my people.
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:26.320
I want it to be good.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.639
And I want it, it's it's my name connected to it.
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:30.879
So you have to think about that side of it as well.
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:39.679
In the case of the burnout example, so like, did you prepare a unique talk all around burnout?
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.480
And are you preparing something unique every time?
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.279
Um, kind of the site goes into the pitch, right?
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:47.120
Like how you tailor a pitch.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:47.919
Yep.
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.120
So I uh I'll use the example.
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:55.600
So burnout, yes, I did create a specific one because the audience was different.
00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:05.600
Um, and so I needed to change some of the language and then also um be able to figure out how I can relate to them, even if I'm not one of them, so to speak.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:16.080
So that one did, but again, for something that feels so close to people's hearts, like again, if it's it could be a charity that brings people together, it could be again a mission, it could be whatever.
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.159
Um, and so I'm not doing that every time.
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:26.720
Usually what I will do, uh, like for example, a while ago I did like literally pre, what was that?
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:32.879
That was probably 2018, uh, I did like a JV webinar tour for this uh course.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:34.240
So it's called Team of One.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.360
It was all about solarpreneurship, systems for solarpreneurs.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:46.159
And I took it on tour, and each person that I was pitching and connecting to about it had again a kind of more of a niche audience.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:54.960
So there was somebody who had uh a bunch of lawyers, there were financial people, there was creatives, there was whoever.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:03.039
And so my webinar and general solution that I'm you know solving for is the same.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:09.200
But the way in which I speak about it is gonna be a little bit different depending on who I'm talking to, right?
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:12.640
Because again, I had one where I was talking to wedding uh wedding planners.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.440
Um I'm not gonna say clients, I'm gonna say brides, right?
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:22.400
Or things that are make it feel like I have a shared knowledge with the people that I'm talking to.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:33.839
So it's things like that that I think help keep you in touch with who you're pitching so they know, okay, they're not just gonna come and it's not gonna be relatable to my people because then that doesn't feel good.
00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:42.720
Yeah, I feel like the like the thing too is completely dependent on like, are you using collaborations?
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.680
Like, where in the buyer's journey are you kind of using them?
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.880
Like, are you using them just for like visibility?
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.799
Are you or are you using them for like a launch?
00:17:52.880 --> 00:18:10.000
Like a lot of times people use kind of like Jordan's examples where it's like I went on a tour where it's like you're kind of taking this very similar workshop and you're just showing up to other people's audience and sharing the same message, probably with the goal of getting people into this course or this program or this membership, whatever.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.559
So it could be a really good like pre-launch strategy to grow the email list and all of that.
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:25.759
And then I feel like there's the hey, I'm actually in between launches or I don't have very much launch plan, but I still want to grow my email list because especially in the online business world, it's just really common.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.640
Like a lot of us make money from emails and people being on our list and stuff like that.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.960
And so there is that.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:40.640
And then I think in the very beginning, I wanted to collaborate literally to just get experience collaborating.
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:52.640
Like I literally was like, I don't know how this is gonna go, but I think what got me turned on to it was seeing how normal collaborations are locally, like in person.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:19:02.720
Like if you go to a farmer's market, that's technically a collaboration because you're like you're collaborating with all of the other people that are showing up to the farmer's market and whoever is hosting it.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:21.440
Or it's like when you go to an event, or like um, I went to a gala like a couple months ago, and it's like that whole thing was to raise money for something, but it's like people were popping up and selling they had like a permanent jewelry station, and then somebody else like I don't know, they donated something and got like a shout out on stage.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:36.240
So it's like I feel like us online business folks talk so much about like only the online options, but it really is like in your industry or in your fields, who compliments that?
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.559
It really can be that simple.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:53.599
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Go interact with it and then imagine what you could do with something like this.
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00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.319
It totally can.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:29.920
I think about, yeah, when I go to uh one of my favorite coffee shops to go to is Lala Land.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.279
Um, it's down here in Texas.
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.680
It's kind of in California, Arizona area.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.000
I think it's just open in Nashville too.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.720
But um, I love them for multiple reasons.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.440
Number one is the baristas are actually all kids coming out of foster care and wanting to get job experience.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.079
So that is a mission near and dear to me.
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.759
I don't have any connection to a foster care.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.880
It should have always been something that I've just felt called to.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:54.240
So I follow it.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.839
But I I love it because that is an amazing mission.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
And then secondly, they do a ton of conversation.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.880
Collaborations, like and I use them as a case study and just like how I operate as well.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:12.640
Like they collaborated with Disney, they collaborate with um gosh, the who's the viral cucumber salad dude on TikTok.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.079
Like they've literally collaborated with like so many people.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:24.079
And it's interesting because, like, like you said, Mariah, like everybody is collaborating offline really well.
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:35.920
I feel like you go into a smoothie shop, they have yoga class, you know, free yoga class, little business cards on the side, or you walk into a coffee shop and there's like a bulletin board with people sharing stuff that you can do as well.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.680
And it's like it's about the complementiness of what it is you're doing.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:23:11.200
Like if you know that your people are, you know, uh into health-related stuff, but you specifically help with the food part of it, then maybe collaborating with a drink partner or collaborating with, you know, um, health classes or fitness classes, or just thinking about what extra things are your people already going to, they're already doing, but because you have a connection or a relationship with the other business owners, like it's just like a duh moment.
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:33.440
So, you know, I think that it's something that people, for me, when I collaborate to, when I host collaborations, like for example, if I did my virtual conferences or things like that, I actually looked at who I'm collaborating with as people to help me overcome objections, which is kind of like a layer deeper uh than most people think.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:47.599
But I I want them to be in complimentary audiences, but I also I because at that time, that collaboration specifically for a virtual conference I was hosting, I was pitching my$5,000 offer at the time.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.039
So that that's a pretty tight uh collaboration.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.960
It's not necessarily just for visibility.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:02.319
It is, I have speakers come and they share their insights and they can be affiliates, but I also had a whole affiliate army separately from that.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.160
And people would share it, and then I want people to buy.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:07.680
Um, that's the whole goal of it.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:16.079
So for me, then that next layer deep of objections is okay, I'm a systems person doing VIP days.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.640
An objection I got was, but I'm in a creative field.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.559
So can creatives do VIP days?
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:32.960
So I would choose speakers who were creatives who had a VIP day, and they were sharing, you know, their expertise or why they loved VIP days.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.240
That's an undertone that then helps me overcome objections because they can't say that anymore.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:48.799
Like they can't say, well, Jordan, you're in systems, because I just show them an entire panel of people who are in creative fields, like copy, like website design, like branding, like whatever else.
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:57.839
So, and I don't see a ton of people doing that because then I look at other people's summits or things and I'm like, this is like this is not organized how I would organize it.
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:04.720
But I I think that especially if it's that tight um, what did you say, Mariah?
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.559
Like uh five stages of awareness, right?
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:32.160
So if I'm I'm wanting people to get to like solution aware where I'm providing the solution and I need you to take it, you have to think a few more layers deep than just, hey, I'm cool with people who are problem aware for guest podcasting, for other types of summits, for those sorts of things, because it's it's more of a visibility play than a buying play, so to speak.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:35.119
Genius.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.599
I mean, I talk about objection handling, right?
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.480
I do this all day, but the best way to do it is up front, right?
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.720
Like answer questions before they even come up.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.839
So I love that.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.319
And what you guys are saying about think about the goal.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.319
What is the bigger goal of the collab?
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.480
And are we launching a program, right?
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.119
And how could you structure that up at the front?
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:54.720
That's just so genius.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:05.119
Um I so what we are excited to talk to you about is you do an impressive amount of collaborations every year, like 50 to 60, I think.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.680
And I have a billion questions around that.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:15.519
But I just to get started, like I would love to hear your thoughts on pitching, you know, like A, how do you get a hold of people?
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.359
Are you sending DMs on Instagram?
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.200
Are you trying to find a mutual connection?
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.640
And then B, like you get pitched a lot and you do a lot of pitching.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.319
Like, what are some best practices, some things you hate to see?
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.880
You know, just kind of like the overview, I guess, of pitching all of that.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.160
Oh, yes.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.759
I I love pitching and I love being pitched.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.440
I don't like bad pitches.
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:38.160
All right.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:50.240
Um, but I I really what I enjoy about it is again, it lets me know you have the cojones to like come at me and actually tell me what you want from me.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.359
Because again, I don't like the beanie around the bush.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.960
I don't like let's coffee chat, but really we're gonna try this.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:57.839
No.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.960
Just tell me what you want from me so I can say yes, no, maybe, and we can move on from there.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:13.359
Other people may have other, you know, feelings about that, but for me, I'll do my pitching first and then I'll talk about people pitching me then.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:20.720
So when I pitch, uh, the first time that I'm they see my name, I don't want to be the pitch.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.240
So that means that I'm like, okay, I know I want to pitch this person.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.559
I'm gonna go and rate and review their podcast.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.119
I'm gonna go and comment on some of their stuff on social.
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.480
I'm going to make myself just seen.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:36.799
Like, just and it doesn't have to be super substantial or anything.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.920
Again, there's no, okay, I'm expecting them to respond to anything that I'm doing or give me a shout-out.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:43.519
Literally, it's touch points.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:49.759
It's like I need data points so that the first time they see my name, it's not a pitch.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.279
So that's number one.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:03.920
Number two is when I go into that pitch, I actually look at again what is relevant in their world right now that would make my pitch be like, oh my gosh, thank goodness she found me.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:04.640
I'm so excited.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:06.160
Like, let's make this happen.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.359
So relevancy is huge with pitching.
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:10.960
That's on both sides.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:20.079
So again, if I'm, you know, I don't know, talking about micro tools right now, but then someone is pitching me about, hey, do you want to sell my website template for VIP days?
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.599
Okay, no.
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.720
And also, like, where have you been the past three years?
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.119
But just like the relevancy is huge.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.880
Like, you have to understand what is in their world and how do you fit in in a way that's not disruptive.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.400
And that is again complementary to what it is they're currently doing.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.000
How is what you have going to support me and my goals?
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.039
Um, and so I do that, you know, on the opposite side.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:56.319
So I come at it from an angle that just feels like very duh or very like, even if it's a timing thing right now, they're just like, you know, follow back in a month, right?
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.440
Or whatever the case is.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:08.160
So that's how I'm able to write really good pitches, get a lot of yeses from my pitches because I'm not coming at it from a disruptive place.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:19.440
I'm coming at it from a I see the train tracks you're on, and I'm just gonna like hitch right next to yours, and it's gonna be, you know, exciting and and helpful for you.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:24.319
Then when I get pitches, um, I actually got one recently that was really good.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.160
Um, the reason it was good was because, because I feel like we talk a whole lot about the bad pitches because it's very easy to talk about them.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:35.519
There's a lot more of those, but the good ones are uh she did a really great job.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.480
Her subject line was what is your march look like?
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:39.759
And I was like, great.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.680
I love when somebody just tells me when something is supposed to be happening.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:49.680
So I open it, and uh it was a bundle, which I don't actually do.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.359
So that even tells you how good the pitch was because it I don't I say no to like all the bundles.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:02.079
And but I kept reading and she let me know in the first couple sentences.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:07.119
She was like, hey, I actually just bought your, I think it was my page one playbook or something.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:08.880
And she was like, it was super good.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.759
I just implemented this part, I can't wait to see the results from it.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:20.400
And it made me think you actually would be a really great um person to have as a part of this bundle that I do, yada yada.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:26.319
But that second part that is crucial is you're telling me what you want from me.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.440
Like, I'm not good when someone's like, let's collab.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:32.799
Throw me into a tizzy, why don't you?
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.960
Like, I don't know what to do with that.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:37.599
Like, that is like the scariest question I could be asked.
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:46.000
Like, it's just, and not because I don't want to collaborate, but because I'm just like, you know, like I have a hard time choosing what I want to wear every day.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.799
So I just buy five of the same pants and keep wearing them, you know.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.119
Like I don't, it's too many choices.
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:58.400
So I think it's always best, in my personal opinion, to say, okay, this I heard you on a podcast.
00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:59.440
This is what you spoke about.
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.599
This is why I want you to talk about in my community.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.400
I just bought this thing from you, I just implemented this result.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.400
Now I want you to come and talk about it.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:19.279
Like, that is where people then are given a green flag of like, okay, you know what I'm about, you know what you like about what I'm saying, and you just want me to again put it, put that use somewhere else.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.640
So that's really big when people come to me about that.
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:35.519
And then also just like for me, um, I don't like to be in a lot of things that have a lot of people in them, mainly because then again, it's a dilution of attention.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:44.799
And so at a certain and people think like, oh, if I have more speakers or if I have more things and it's gonna reach more people, I have yet to experience that.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:51.519
Um, and so I do have like a just okay, how many people are involved in this sort of question for me?
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:07.519
And so that always comes to play, and not in the sense of like, oh, I obviously obviously I'm trying to reach people, but I again it's a dilution of attention for everybody, honestly.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:09.200
Like, it's not even just about me.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:16.240
And so I will look at and say, okay, you have 40 speakers, like that's just gonna be a no for me.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.559
Like, that's just like generally not gonna be a place that I want to be.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:37.200
Also, this is just like a side note when people, and maybe it's because I'm just a more relational person, but when people lead with numbers, which sounds like okay, Jordan, you love strategy, you love all this stuff, but for me, I can be in small rooms and make shit happen.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:47.119
So I don't need to hear, oh, you're gonna get in front of 10,000 people, whatever, and you're just like adding people's email lists together and doing some weird math.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.440
Like, I'm good with that.
00:32:49.599 --> 00:33:02.559
Like, I would rather know that it's gonna be an audience match, you know what I want to talk about, here's when you want me to talk about it, and the math is gonna work itself out for me just because I'm good at speaking and I'm good at what I do.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:11.039
So that's just the thing, too, is if people are you can say the numbers, but if you're leading with the numbers, then I know it's bullshit to be honest.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:18.640
Um, so I'm like, you you kind of gotta whittle your way through when you get a ton of pitches or you see a ton of pitches.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:25.359
The pattern I've seen is when they and what I mean by lead by numbers, if you're like, but I want to share like what the possibility is.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:41.920
Leading by numbers is saying, Hey, I want you to be a part of this, you're gonna get in front of all these people, and here's like how many touch points, and here's the views, and here's the like it's like more than just saying a strict, like, hey, we're expecting 10,000 people, cool.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:48.160
When you start to layer a bunch of numbers and trying to like really fluffy it up, that's that's when it's a problem.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:56.319
So again, share what you want, but I would say those are some things that in my experience between when I'm pitching or when I'm being pitched are helpful.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:02.640
I am over here nodding emphatically because yes, 100%.
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:17.280
And like once I feel like once you start getting pitch, which I know like might take a while in order for that to start happening, because usually what happens is people pitch the people that they think will say yes or like have had collabs before.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:23.360
If they don't know maybe like what you're an expert in, or maybe they don't know if you do collaborations, they might not be pitching you.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:35.039
But once you start getting these pitches, you'll like almost immediately know what not to do because you're reading these and be like, oh, it's that line that I don't like.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:41.039
Like I got pitched for a bundle or a summit, one of those last week.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:55.440
And it was like they just took a line from my about page on my website and copy and pasted it like into the email and been like, and it's because you and then used a line from my website and then continued what they did.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.519
And I was like, it you didn't even jazz this up, dude.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:03.199
Like, you didn't even copy this paragraph, put it into Chat GPT.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:07.840
Like, you don't have I don't need a full custom pitch.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.239
I absolutely don't, but it's just like you just seemed like you didn't really give a shit.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:19.039
And here's the thing we're adults, I'm not 12 years old looking for a fucking play date, dude.
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:45.519
I'm not, I'm busy, I got shit to do, and like I love collaborating, but also I have limited time in my experience and my life, and I can only say yes to so many things, and I like to say yes to my husband a lot, so that means that like I can't say yes to other things naturally, and so it's like I love the example that you're saying last week where it was like, Hey, I just bought this thing and I really like it, and like that's why you would be good.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:52.960
Cool, she just did like 75% of the work for you because a lot of the times people are like, You want to be in my thing?
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:54.320
I know that you're an expert in this.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.440
What do you want to talk about?
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.239
I don't know.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.840
What do you think would be a good fit?
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.280
Like, you're coming to me.
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:09.760
So if you're pitching somebody that maybe you don't have a prior relationship with, because I find when you have a prior relationship, if I wanted to collaborate with Shay or collaborate with Jordan, I literally be like, yo, dude, I got this problem.
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:11.920
Like, do you want to collaborate and like figure this shit out?
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.519
It's literally how I got Jordan on the podcast.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.840
I'm like, I don't know how the fuck to explain collaborations.
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.239
Can you come on and talk to me and Shay about it and like our audience?
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.760
And she was like, Yeah, for sure.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:31.840
Like it gets to be more relational, but when you don't have that relationship, you kind of have to go at it from a how can we make this easiest possible and like both win.
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:33.920
Yes, 100%.
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:40.800
And I like to also bring up the math of collaborations a little bit because you brought up, you like to say yes to your husband a lot.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.440
I do as well.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.039
I like my husband, I like my bonus line, I like my house, all things.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.840
So you're competing against some really amazing people and things in my life.
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:58.480
So, but for a lot of people, when you think about just like the math of collaborations and how much capacity people have to collaborate, I have a high capacity.
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.000
Okay, I do have 50 to 60, I have a lot more slots than most people.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:09.440
Most people, if you think about it, even just from an email standpoint, most people email their list once a week, 52 times in a year.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:12.239
I email three times a week, so I have three times that.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:22.320
But most people, one time a week, if they have their own launches or doing their own, you know, stuff, they probably are gonna email their list two or three times out of the month about their own stuff.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:28.960
So that leaves one slot per month for a collaboration email, so it's 12 times.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.639
And then you're also competing on past collaborations I have done well, and so they're gonna say yes to those.
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:44.320
So the numbers keep dwindling, and you probably only have six to eight-ish slots of possibility to collaborate with each individual person.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.920
And so when you think in that way, it's not like a scare tactic or like, oh my gosh, there's not enough slots, blah.
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.199
It's like that's how intentional you need to be then.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.519
Like, why should you have one of these six to eight spots?
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:57.840
Right.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:03.039
And so I come with that same again, Hudzpa of just like one of those slots is mine.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:10.960
So let me just go on ahead and fill it with exactly what's gonna help you and your goals help me and my goals, and we have a shared goal, all is well in the world.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:21.679
But I think that again, people pitch as if people just don't have things to do or like aren't filling their time with things that are building their businesses.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:28.480
Like, I could just run my business and like do well, like and not be bothered by anybody.
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:41.360
And a lot of people are that way, and so there's a it's important to really honor that people are taking time out of their promotional calendars, out of taking, you know, a slot that could make them money, right?
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.840
Because most of us can send an email and make money.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:54.480
Having that understanding will also help you to have a little bit more grace and appreciation for when you are sharing opportunities with people.
00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:11.840
And I find when people come with more of that uh tone, so to speak, it it really does help to get more yeses because then it doesn't feel like, again, people are just spraying and praying and taking clips out of your website and doing crazy stuff.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:25.119
Like there's the likelihood of yes is going to be higher when you recognize that they are busy or recognize that they do have a lot going on, and this isn't a diversion from that, this is in support of that.
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:37.599
I really love what you guys are saying, and you know, just to kind of reiterate one point you we kind of glossed over is no cold pitching, which I think is important.
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.480
Like what you're saying is smart and not hard to do.
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.519
Like, go think about what they would appreciate.
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.320
Oh, a review on my podcast, a comment on my post.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:52.880
There's so many ways for free and relatively no time we can support and show up, and that means a lot.
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.800
I think we don't realize how much that means.
00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:03.920
But then now, Jordan, when you slide into the DMs or the email, you're not a stranger, and there is a huge gap that's been bridged just from that alone.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.440
I think that's really powerful.
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.880
But then what you guys are saying is structure the pitch around the win-win, right?
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.639
Like find the win-win, where choose partnerships based on win-win.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:20.880
But then if you can go in and show that you're thoughtful of, hey, I understand you, I understand how this could be a win for you.
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.840
And then let me tell you how it could be a win for me, that is always gonna be successful.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:37.519
And it's funny, like Mariah, we laughed about the example she gave, but honestly, even just getting pitches for this podcast, what I see, like 90% of the pitches we get, it's what she described.
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:38.880
It's like weird.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.199
They have this template and they're just like rinsing and repeating, and they're cold.
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:47.199
So what I'm getting cold hits, and I'm getting people that have not thought about us.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:48.320
So that's two strikes.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.199
And how easy is it just to like be a little thoughtful?
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.559
So that I think that is very wise words, and unfortunately, not practice a ton.
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.039
I'm not sure why, because it does seem kind of logical.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:03.039
But you mentioned like the math.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.800
I would love to get into how do you calculate ROI for these kind of things?
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.440
Like, what is a win and what is a loss that wasn't worth my time?
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:26.719
Because I was telling Mariah before this, anytime I've ever done anything like this, and I go in with like hard, I want these outputs, I don't get those outputs, but I do get wins in weird other ways that I never could have predicted.
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.599
So it's like kind of hard to measure.
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.079
And then even if it's not what is expected, it's still awesome in some other outputs.
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:39.599
So tell us a bit about how you think of ROI and like if you would do something again or not do it again.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:40.800
Totally.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:42.400
I love this question.
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:50.960
So I definitely go into it knowing if it's a visibility ROI, if it's gonna be a lead ROI, if it's gonna be a sale ROI.
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.920
I can pretty much, again, at this point in business, anyway.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.920
I may not have known that at the very beginning because you got to kind of get your feet wet.
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.239
But there are definitely ones where I'm like, this is 100% a visibility play.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.920
I have no expectations of someone signing up from my email list, no expectations of somebody buying anything from me.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:14.800
And so my call to action, oddly enough, which sounds weird, is just go connect with me on Instagram.
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.519
And the reason for that is I also do run ads.
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.239
So I'll spider web you and eventually you'll come around.
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:25.039
But even if you're running just like live visibility ads.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:38.079
So I and I found that again, there's tons of people that I have done the call to action of, hey, come connect with me on Instagram, because you know, things are flowing and I'm active there, like don't send them dumb or dead.
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.000
Um that people eventually do come around.
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:47.760
But I just know that those people are gonna be a longer play, usually because their audience is not exactly my audience.
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:56.559
So it could be like a degree off, or because I know that again, they may be earlier in their business journey.
00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:04.960
And so cool, I'll I'll say hello now, and then I know eventually I'm just gonna be the person you have in mind when you're like ready to go there.
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:11.199
And then with leads play, that one obviously gets a little bit more strategic on the numbers and stuff.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:16.719
So I, when it comes to okay, I know this is gonna be a leads play.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.800
I uh for me, it's really simple.
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:22.800
I just I keep it pretty straightforward.
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.920
In my kit, I just create a landing page.
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:36.880
It's usually duplicated of whatever freebie it is that I'm sharing about, and I then just have the direct numbers because that's the only people coming to that link.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:43.599
I can easily see it in kit and it it tags them and says, you know, where they're coming from.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.400
Um, because I have a custom field to get a little nerdy.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.519
I have a custom field in kit that says source.
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:59.599
And so um how I have it set up is again, if it's blank, then it will fill in, you know, Shay's podcast I was on, or it'll say so.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.679
Conference I spoke at.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:14.400
Um, but if it does have a source in there, then it's not going to um change it, which is important because then when I go back and look at sources, that's the first action someone took.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:29.199
And so then I can go back and look at the end of the year, pull all of my forms together that were from uh uh collaborations and actually see was it just my same people they went to go listen to the podcast and then they came and signed up for something, which is cool.
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.760
How many are actually brand new to me?
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.920
And that was the first action that they took is they came and downloaded this free thing.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.719
So I'm able to see that data really cleanly in kit.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.639
Um, who's an email marketing platform for those of you who may not know?
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:55.679
But I that's kind of my leads ROI play is I'm able to, again, throughout the year, just see about how many people came from podcasts, how many came from hearing me speak on stage, how many came from wherever, and then the data's really clean.
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.440
Sales visibility is super specific.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.119
I don't do as many of those.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:10.239
Not because I couldn't, but because I see collaborations more on the visibility lead side.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.760
But I will explain on the sales side.
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:16.320
Um, I'll share a few different examples.
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:21.119
One is uh Gemma Bottom Carter is a sales ROI for me.
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:25.440
Our audiences are lockstep, like they could not be more of a match.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.079
Whenever I pitch her stuff, when she pitches my stuff, people just buy.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.320
So basically, anytime Gemma says, Hey, I'm doing something, I say yes to it.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.239
Um, same thing with her.
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.840
And so, you know, and that's just a beautiful, and we've had a friendship for a really long time.
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.559
So, but then I know.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:50.719
So, like for example, Gemma has a summit coming up in May, and I then know, okay, this is a sales thing.
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:58.000
So now I'm gonna orient my marketing promo calendar and I'm gonna have it's gonna be about micro tools and AI.
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:03.199
I'm gonna have two weeks later a micro tool mastery live intensive.
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:11.360
So when I'm on at Gemma's doing my thing and it's gonna be a live interview, I know I'm going to get sales for that thing in two weeks.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:15.920
And I'm purposely gonna put it there because I know I'm gonna get sales.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:26.719
So that's like a whole, but again, I don't do too many of those because I do orient my calendar generally speaking around that to ensure that it is tight and that it is gonna be as direct as possible.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:30.719
Because I wouldn't want to go on there and be like, hey, sign up for something that's happening in October.
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.480
There, forget about it.
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:35.280
It's that then this it's the sales RI isn't there.
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:40.480
Um, so I probably, yeah, I probably only need to do about three of those a year.
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.519
Um, and another person is Ashley who does air table stuff, systems related.
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.559
Like that's just a win of an audience, um, naturally.
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.280
So um she does more launch-oriented.
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:56.159
So I usually will at the beginning of the year ask her when her launches are.
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:57.360
I'll pick one.
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:09.280
And then I will again just orient and do a longer like email campaign or just do more promo for that because I know that I'm gonna get sales, affiliate sales from her on the back end.
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:11.840
So that one is knowing she's great for my audience.
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:15.840
I don't really, I mean, I could sell to her audience, I guess, but I don't, it's fine.
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.920
Like I don't do the tit for tat thing.
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:25.119
Um, so that's another way that again, it's a win for my people because I know they're gonna want what she has.
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:32.400
And so therefore, I will orient my promo calendar to make sure that that's plugged in and is prioritized.
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:44.559
So kind of an example of the ROI through all of it and then how I not almost say capture people, it sounds like I'm a pirate, but just how do I collect people at each of the different ROI stages?
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:49.599
Yeah, and I think it just goes to show that like all of this shit started from a relationship.
00:47:49.760 --> 00:48:01.039
You didn't know that Gemma's audience was gonna be lockstep with yours, or that Ashley that your audience was going to really love when Ashley launches this program and then you would make affiliate sales.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:15.679
You kind of had to build a relationship, probably test it out with maybe like a smaller collaboration, maybe it was like a podcast interview, and then it was like, oh shit, like I got a lot of link clicks in my email from this podcast interview.
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:19.840
Maybe we have a really great overlapping audience.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.039
And so I'm really glad that you shared that because that's a very advanced way to handle collaborations.
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:38.239
Yeah, like I don't I've been doing collaborations for a decade and I have not even thought about reorienting my marketing around somebody else's launch, but it makes sense.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:45.760
Like if your if your calendars and your marketing and your audiences really align, you would be a silly little goose not to do that.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.679
But when you're first getting started, it's like start small.
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:54.960
Uh, I I did want to share, I used to talk about this thing called a collaboration ladder.
00:48:55.039 --> 00:49:02.400
And people would be like, Well, how do you like move up the like how do you get like bigger collaborations with people, which is kind of what you're saying?
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:22.239
And I'd be like, Well, the very first rung on the ladder that I have found work really well for me, if you're afraid to like cold pitch them, you know, something that feels like I don't want to say intense, but somebody that's something that's maybe a little time consuming is to pitch them something super easy where you're featuring them.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.039
So my favorite one to do is like an expert roundup of something.
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.719
And so I'll reach out to people, and I just did this in the beginning of the year.
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:32.239
It was other SEO experts.
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.079
Everybody's freaking out about AI.
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.159
What is SEO in 2026?
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:36.800
That type of thing.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.960
So I reached out to 15 other SEO experts.
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.920
I go, yo, I literally need like little clips from these two questions.
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:42.960
Fill out this form.
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.199
I'll link to your website, you'll get a backlink.
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:47.360
I'm gonna share it on my audience.
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:48.559
It'll take you three seconds.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.719
I'll let you know you can share it with your audience.
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:58.079
Most people, I think 85% of the people that I pitched to fill out that form, filled out that form and it was so easy.
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:09.039
Now I'm liking all their shit on threads, I'm liking all their stuff on Instagram, just because we collaborated, but like in the tiniest little micro shift.
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.719
And now I had a client who's actually a better fit for this other SEO person.
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:19.519
And I was like, hey girl, hey, like just sending this person over, yada yada, and like I didn't feel like I was like, Well, hello there.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.679
Um, I'm just wondering.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.159
I was like, nah, we have already talked in the email.
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.639
You have filled up my Google form, we are basically best friends.
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.760
Like, what's up?
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.159
And just being direct, like, being direct is so fucking helpful.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:39.039
I just wanted to reiterate that because, like, being direct is not mean not being kind.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:45.039
I think that some people are like, well, if I'm being direct, then I'm not being kind or I'm not being curious enough.
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.920
No, I want to spend time with my husband, I want to go for a walk.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:48.880
Like, just be direct.
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:49.440
What do you want?
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:50.960
I'll let you know if this works for me.
00:50:51.119 --> 00:51:02.000
Like this in this part, I feel like is really where that line, like it's not personal, it's business sometimes where it's like I literally just need to know directly.
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.599
Like, this isn't personal at this moment if we've never collaborated before.
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.119
Like a lot of the times, it's really like, does this work for my business, my calendar?
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.559
Yada, yada, yada.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:18.719
So I just wanted to share that in terms of like an idea for something really small that people can get started with.
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:24.480
And then I even had a client in my SEO membership, and she was like, Well, I want to do an expert roundup.
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:26.079
How do I do it?
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:38.559
Reach out to people, you just slide into their DMs because I think we forget how great does it feel when somebody's like, Jordan, you're a fucking expert in collaborations.
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:41.039
Can you come and share like your brain?
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:43.199
People think you have to like pitch harder than that.
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.280
And like a lot of the times it's like, no, just tell me how how good I am.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:47.920
Right.
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:48.639
Exactly.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:50.239
Fluff me up a little bit.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:51.199
Yes.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:51.920
Yeah.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:52.480
Yeah.
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:55.840
So where I guess that leads me to my next question.
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:01.119
Where do you, or because your I think that your answer might be different.
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:02.559
So maybe we can answer this two part.
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:04.719
Where do you find people to collaborate with?
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:12.239
And where new people never done a collaboration in their entire life, where would they find people to collaborate with?
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:25.280
So for me, I again I pretty much hang out on Instagram and Threads, and I I it's weird.
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:33.920
It's this is like feels more recent, uh, is threads, which is interesting because I like to see people's point of view.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:39.360
I like to see like how you conduct yourself a little bit.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:46.639
Um, and so, you know, I have like a little folder-y thing on threads, which is like I I like what she said here.
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:50.719
And like if I wanted to have somebody talk about this, like I would want her to talk about it.
00:52:50.960 --> 00:53:00.719
Um, and so you think like, oh, your content is just like for your customers or for your audience or whatever, but also like people who are true collaborators, we're we're looking into everything.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.440
Um so for me specifically, I like threads.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.880
Um, that doesn't mean that you're even necessarily having to post on threads.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:13.760
It could just be, again, I happen to see your comment or whatever the case is.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:19.360
Um, also, people don't like this one, but events, physical events.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:31.119
Um, I find that I can just trust somebody way more when I'm able to meet them in person, which again means you have to like put on clothes and get out of your house, right?
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:35.599
Which I know is like not my favorite either, but also is my favorite.
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:45.119
And I just think that if you're wanting to close the gap and create trust as quickly as possible, there's nothing faster than in-person events.
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:52.559
So, not even speaking, like you're just like attending, like you're just like there hanging out at the tables, whatever.
00:53:52.960 --> 00:54:01.599
Those are the two places that I go, generally speaking, when I'm like, okay, I want to meet some cool people, I want to connect with them, get to know them, etc.
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:13.519
On the flip side, if you're like newer-ish in business and are like, okay, I know some people that I want to bring in, but there's like some gaps and experts that I want for my thing.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:28.239
For me, I would suggest either YouTube because again, there's a lot of people producing really dope long-form content that again, you can get a pulse on their expertise to see if your audience will be interested.
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:30.480
You're gonna get a pulse on how they're going to teach.
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:31.840
So, again, is it confusing?
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:32.559
Is it clear?
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.800
Is it like that sort of thing?
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:54.559
Um, and then also again, if you're newerish in business, but you have communities, like if you're in SEO community, if you're in some other communities, like I've definitely there was a mastermind I was a part of actually when I was more newer in business, and I actually again, I'm a little bold, but just like and creepy.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:55.840
So there's like two layers to this.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.480
But I was like, okay, there's these like six people that I want to connect with.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:07.280
I'm gonna find the people in my mastermind community, which was I think at 20 people at the time, not like my mastermind, but a mastermind I was in.
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:14.480
So I went to those 20 people's profiles and saw who was actually connected to each of these people that I wanted to talk to.
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:20.960
And instead of me, again, having the full kahunes and just going to those people and be like, hey, can you just introduce me to them?
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.679
I put a post that said, Hey, here's the six names of people that I want to be connected to.
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:29.679
If you know them, would you be willing to connect me with those people?
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:30.800
I did it that way.
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:39.440
One, because at least one or two people would probably raise their hand and say, Oh my gosh, yes, like let me connect you with that person, which then has kind of a group think to it.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:45.599
To if somebody else was thinking about it, they're gonna be like, oh shoot, Sandy's gonna connect her with this person.
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:47.840
So I probably should connect her with the other person.
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:58.960
And then the likelihood of me getting connected to all six is higher because there's again a bit of this like group mentality going on of like, we're gonna get behind Jordan and we're gonna share her with the people she wants to be shared with.
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:13.119
So um, if you're newer in business, and again, you don't have to do that creep status of like actually knowing who is connected to who, but just if you're like, hey, I want somebody who does branding for people with ADHD, who do you know?
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:19.760
And would you be willing to connect me or put their Instagrams or their YouTube channels down below so I can, you know, check them out?
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:25.840
Because again, if someone's willing to vouch for somebody, um, that speaks volumes to me.
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:30.719
Um, because people don't have like people don't have to stop the scroll and put a name down.
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.400
And so you have to think about they're willing to publicly say I'm associated with this person.
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:50.639
And so versus again, the one-on-one conversation, not that people aren't going to be as like diligent in one-on-one, but I like that again, there's this publicness about it that says, I'm willing to put my username next to this person's username.
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.119
Okay.
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:54.400
So if I were newer, those are the two things.
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.440
YouTube to like get a feel for how they teach, what they talk about, if it will be good for your audience.
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:04.400
And then secondly, is going into the communities you're already in and say, hey, this is who I'm looking for.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.960
Like put their tag down below, or if you want to do a one-on-one intro, I'm open.
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:12.800
Well, that's so good, Jordan.
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:15.519
You're always on here, and I'm like, what?
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:22.880
Like you always like, I'm a strategic person, but you the way you're able to take it to like the next level, you've like you blow my mind all the time.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:29.039
Um, I want to know your brain is not my brain when it comes to systems and organization.
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:38.880
The idea of managing 50 to 60 collabs in my calendar and the scheduling and the planning, like, how do you keep it all organized?
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:46.400
Like, I would love to hear just like some insights you have, especially with the way that you work with the systems and organization, because I my brain's not like that.
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:53.519
So I'd love to hear more about how you're because it seems like years, at least a year out in advance, you're thinking about and planning and reaching out.
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:54.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.880
Again, for those sales ones, I am about a year in advance.
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.199
Um, and I get those plugged in pretty easily.
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:02.559
Um, for again, the other ones is a little more loosey-goosey.
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:06.400
Again, I have more slots or at bats, so to speak.
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:18.159
So the fact that I do email three times to my list every week, you know, it's not that I need content per se, but again, I can I can shift in mold a little bit more than than most.
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:28.159
So um, I basically have on, and again, I like simple systems, and people are usually pretty uh surprised at how simple they are.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:38.159
So for me, I actually have a Google Calendar that is like my promo calendar on Google, and it's like this teal color, and then I have emoji.
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:47.519
It's basically this like email promo for so-and-so, or I have a little microphone that is for podcasts, or I have a little um something else.
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:48.079
What do I have?
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:50.320
I think I have Sparkle for speaking on stage.
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:58.000
So, like it is able to give me at a glance, and so I can look really quickly at okay, do I have too many collaborations in one month?
00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:59.440
Is there a lot of teal going on?
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:00.960
And that's just a no.
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:14.400
Um, and so because I don't want to actually have to like review and know, like, and have to just dive into all the information for each, I just need a quick glance on just like, is this gonna create whiplash for my audience, right?
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:16.800
Is it gonna be too close and too tight?
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:22.239
Um, and also for me, I I pretty much always negotiate.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.679
Like if people are like, oh, you have to send two emails to your list, you have to do this.
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.599
I'm like, if you want me, I'm one email and I'm one social.
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:34.719
And they either say yes or no to that, and I don't care.
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:39.760
Um so you know, because again, if you don't take the slot, I'm gonna make money from the slot.
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.000
So it's I'm good either way.
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:46.960
So we have to have that again, just ability to negotiate as well.
00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:53.360
But from a system standpoint, it's all just like on my Go calendar into, and I can see what's going on.
00:59:53.599 --> 01:00:01.119
Secondly, is again all of the forms that have to be filled out or all of the, you know, collateral for that.
01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:02.800
Um, there's a few things.
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:10.719
Now I'm like diving into the AI side of it and like having AI do it for me, but that's like a whole nother separate conversation that I don't feel like I have the whole scope to share.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:25.599
But um, again, with forms and things like that, I usually when I get the email, and again, maybe they need something for me, like headshot bio, etc., um, basically I just split view and I have, again, I've filled out how many of these forms.
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:31.599
So I have a list, like a whole document that just is like any question I've ever been asked, basically for any collaboration.
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:37.360
And I am able to just copy paste like a mofo um and make it really fast.
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:49.519
Um, and then again, I also do just like have a general rule of like again, if no one, especially for like speaking engagements or uh again, kind of those bigger collabs, like I'm gonna need a contract.
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:59.760
Like, I'm gonna need an agreement because again, there was a time where I was like asked to speak somewhere and whatever else, and like it's a month out, and I've never gotten a contract.
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:08.559
And I was like, I know you've pubbed me, I know you've promoted me, but like I don't feel comfortable making plans to leave my family.
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:16.159
I don't know what's happening here, like I don't know what's going on, like I don't know if we're like on the same page here, so like I'm sorry I'm gonna have to say no.
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.320
Um, maybe pissed her off, who knows?
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:22.559
I don't care, but we gotta like conduct business, how how business is done.
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.039
So that also is just a big thing for me from a system standpoint.
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:35.280
Um, and so also with um uh even like small things like for podcast guessing.
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:40.000
I guess someone doesn't have a scheduler, like I'm not gonna get on the podcast.
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.800
Like, I don't want to go back and forth with you about times, send me the link because I don't know how to calculate time zones.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:48.239
I don't want to calculate time zones, please, for the love of God.
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.119
So, like, that's like a hard systems role for me.
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:56.800
It's like if you start going back and forth with me on times, like I'm either gonna push back and say, Hey, can you just send me a link?
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:01.119
Or hey, if you don't have a link, like I can't be on your podcast.
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.239
Like, again, call me whatever you want to call me for that.
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.280
But I've it and it's it's a showing up thing.
01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:13.840
It's like I feel confident that we both are gonna show up at the same time and we both are gonna be prepared and we're both on the same page.
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:19.280
So, you know, and so that's really it from a systems perspective.
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:21.599
I do have like a, you know, for the assets.
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.559
So like if I'm speaking, I need to do slide decks or things like that.
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:25.599
I have a folder for that.
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:31.679
Now I use actually gamma for my um, it's an AI tool to create slide decks, which is really fun.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:33.760
So now all my stuff is in gamma.
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:41.599
But, you know, I just have folders like the rest of the people, but I um there's only a few things that I speak about.
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:49.679
And so I really just have to create those lanes and then more on the side of okay, people are coming into my audience.
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.360
That's more about okay, I know I need to send three emails for Gemma's.
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:57.920
She didn't tell me to send three emails, but I'm going to send three emails because I know how important it is.
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:02.239
Um, and so then I need to block those right on my email calendar.
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:14.800
So it's really between Google Calendar, making sure people are using a calendar scheduler, and then having my like massive document of like things people would want from me and being able to just toss it over.
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.719
So it's pretty again, it feels probably sparse for a lot of people.
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:33.280
But again, if I'm creating a uh or doing a lead ROI visibility collab, then again, I just duplicate the uh oh my gosh, the landing page and kit and rename it something and then I move on.
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:38.000
So again, I'm not having to reinvent the wheel too many places, um, just a few.
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:50.320
That actually feels really good because it's like I'm thinking that you got 75 air table base and you're calling your mom's cousin to come and help you, and then you got like some VAs all around.
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:50.960
You know what I mean?
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:53.039
Like it's just 50 to 60 collabs.
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:55.599
That's no small feat.
01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:04.320
So I feel like even you sharing that it's like, no, you can do this shit in like a fucking Google Calendar girl, if like you got your shit together, which is helpful and you want to know what's funny.
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:05.760
I'm over here laughing.
01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:27.519
I think that your pre because you've been on the podcast before, I think that your previous interview is probably what sparked us to even create the scheduling link for our podcast because we were doing we were doing straight up back and forth, and I think you were one of the first people that were doing it for me because I think you literally were like, yo, send me the link.
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:29.760
And I'm like, fuck, Jordan said send me the link.
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.159
And I was like, dude, I think we need to whip up the link.
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:36.559
And I was so me and I was like, fuck, okay, like what days are you together?
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:37.440
And like blah blah blah.
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:43.199
And then we've been using the link, honestly, for only half of the people now, because I'm like, I haven't even taken a look at my availability.
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:44.880
What's even on this fucking link?
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:45.679
Like, I don't know.
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.159
But then we pitched you for this one, and you were like, send the link.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.320
And I was like, I got that link, girl, but I had to.
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:55.360
And I was like, are these dates in the link still linking?
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.719
Like, are we still are we still friends on this day?
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.960
And so it's it's funny, but it does make it easier.
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:05.840
And that's it's essentially how I am too, right?
01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:09.039
It's like, yo, just send me the link, I'll fucking take a look at my schedule.
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:10.000
I can pop on.
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:11.920
Yeah, can you make it easy for me?
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:13.280
That type of thing.
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:18.719
I do want to talk because we get a lot of questions.
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:20.639
No, that's not correct.
01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:21.199
I'm lying.
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:22.559
I'm talking out of my ass.
01:05:22.719 --> 01:05:34.639
Um, what's coming up a lot in conversation is in-person events, especially in the age of AI, and we've been flopping, all of us have been flopping around on the internet for 10 years.
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:35.519
We're hanging out.
01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:40.159
In-person events, you know, they've always been a thing since the beginning of time.
01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:44.159
But like they've popped off even more so.
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:54.559
I feel like, especially after COVID, everybody realizes that they want human connection, and then we have AI happening, and it's like, yo, I'm tired of just like flopping around on my own.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:56.239
Can I flop around with friends?
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:58.400
Like, have an excuse to kind of go and meet.
01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:01.519
But here's the thing they're Fucking expensive.
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.199
You have to a lot of the times get on a flight.
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:06.880
You got to book a hotel.
01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.639
Some of these conference tickets are 1,500 three grand.
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.239
Some of them, it's like, well, do I want to do the VIP night?
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:18.559
Because I mean, me personally, I really like more intimate settings.
01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:34.400
And so it's like if this is a 200-person event and there's a really small VIP night of maybe like even just 60 people, well, I kind of want to do, I would rather do that instead of the event sometimes, just because I like kicking it with people in just smaller settings, but it's a lot.
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.360
And then you have to completely like we just got a puppy.
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:42.400
And I'm just like, okay, well, it's like who's gonna watch this dog while my husband goes to work?
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:44.000
Like it's so much.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:47.599
And I know people that have children, it's a lot to manage.
01:06:47.760 --> 01:07:00.719
So I guess when it comes to collaborations, because you've been a speaker at other events, you've hosted your own event, you've like opened up speaker applications for your own event, you've been on all different sides of this.
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.400
But like, how do you figure out which events are worth it?
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:06.239
Is the first part of the question.
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:15.920
And B, I have found it so hard to manage or figure out the ROI of an event.
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.159
And even like we um connected in person at Kit last year.
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:24.239
And like a lot of the times when you go to a conference, people are like, What are you here for?
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:25.840
What's your goal of the event?
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:29.599
And like people, even like locally networking, they'll be like, Why are you networking?
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:30.320
What is your goal?
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:33.599
And like my response is like, I'm literally just trying to fucking hang out.
01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:36.320
Like, I don't ever go in with a goal.
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:40.639
And me and Shay went together last year, and we were like, What are we looking to get out of this event?
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:47.119
And I was like, I've rocked my cute little brain about this, but like I keep coming back to I'm just trying to fuck around.
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:54.480
Like, I don't care, but I can't fuck around at five different events every year.
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.440
That's a lot of time that I'm taking away from my business.
01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:00.079
So, like, what what are your thoughts on all of that?
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:01.519
Oh, yeah.
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:05.920
So the first question being the second question is ROI.
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:08.719
The first question was how to find them?
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:12.480
I don't remember my question.
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:14.079
I don't agree.
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:16.079
I'm just gonna start with ROI and then we'll roll back.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:17.359
Just do whatever you want.
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:23.840
Well, I think she's curious about like, okay, Jordan, we see you with 50 to 60 collabs.
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:28.720
And then my first question from Mariah was also, I know Jordan's at events constantly.
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:32.560
And so I'm like, and I don't think she counts those as how do you figure out which ones to go?
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:34.399
So, like, what's worth it?
01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:35.279
How do you decide that?
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:36.800
Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:39.439
Again, thankfully that comes down to relationships.
01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:42.640
Um, to know if it's there honestly.
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:50.960
So if I look back at my arsenal, because there was one year, I think it was 2017, which was my first full year in business.
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:54.079
Um, the year before that, I think was whatever, six months.
01:08:54.399 --> 01:09:01.199
And like I did end up going to probably about 30 in-person events.
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:04.560
Get the fuck out of my face, especially single.
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:05.520
Right.
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:08.960
I was young, I was single, I was doing the most.
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:10.560
Okay, we don't need to do that.
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:14.239
Um I yeah, I've never done 30 events after that.
01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:19.279
But was was that was that including local too, or was that like you traveling?
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:21.119
Okay, both both.
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:32.399
Yeah, but you know, I live in Dallas, Fort Worth, um, for those of you who don't know, and DFW, Austin, Houston, like there's a lot going on between honestly those three cities, and those are all very easy, and you can stay at friends' houses and whatever.
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:44.720
So um how to choose events is really um, or how to like find out about them is honestly network-wise, it's pretty rare that I go to an event and I don't know somebody who's gonna be there.
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:52.079
I think there's only been one event that I did that, um, and it worked out.
01:09:52.399 --> 01:10:01.520
But I I don't usually go to an event that it just is like off on an island somewhere that I've never heard of or that no one around me has ever heard of.
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:03.760
I'm just like, let me just wait that one out.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:07.920
Or if a buddy wants to come with me and you know, frolic, then maybe we'll try it.
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:17.039
But again, to choose like what events to go to because you're leaving your life, you're leaving all stuff, um, and it is expensive.
01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:21.760
Uh what I actually did, so this is for my earlier people.
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:26.239
What I did at those events is I actually would reach out and say, Hey, can I come volunteer?
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:29.359
So then that nixes the ticket price.
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:31.920
And so then I'm able to just go.
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:36.399
I'm usually like at the hook hit the table helping with stuff or I'm stuffing bags or I'm doing whatever.
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:38.159
And then I just get to listening on stuff and whatever.
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:41.920
So I did that a lot in the beginning of my business, probably the first couple years.
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:52.560
And then um moving forward, I agree with you about like the VIP nights and like wanting to be in like the smaller spaces.
01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:55.439
Um, if it is a bigger event, then they don't have a smaller space.
01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:58.319
I usually will just like collect people and create one.
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:05.680
Um, and just like throughout the day of the event, I'm like meeting people and then I'm just like, come find me afterwards and like let's find somewhere for dinner.
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:17.359
But I would say always making sure there's at least one person that you know going because then worst case scenario, y'all have a ball and you know it will work out.
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:28.800
Secondly, knowing things about yourself about like event size, because like I I ended up having to like do something for this event, but HubSpot's event, what the heck is it called?
01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:29.760
Inbound.
01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:32.720
I knew there would be thousands of people.
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:36.399
There was 15,000 people, okay?
01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:48.800
Which like I can't even like share like the sheer volume of people, like it was like a small sporting event, like it was like it was the most people ever.
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:50.479
And I'm like, I will never do that again.
01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:59.039
Lovingly have spot, but just I I know that like I'm kind of like a 200 person nerd under kind of a bank person.
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:02.720
And uh one of the only ones that is more than that is Kit.
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:07.359
And that's just because I know a ton of people, it ends up being like a family reunion for me.
01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:27.680
So knowing that about just like what makes you most comfortable will help you to kind of stay in your lane, and then from a financial standpoint, again, rooming with people, or if I have a friend that's in the area that I can just hang out with and and do that, and then I just have to do Uber into the event every day or whatever.
01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:34.960
Um, I am a bit of a points person, so I do have like I'm a Hilton person and I'm a Southwest Airlines person-ish.
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:36.880
We'll see, because they're driving me crazy right now.
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:40.000
But Southwest and Hilton are like my things.
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:45.119
And so also sticking with those, like I'm able to get opportunities and deals.
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:47.760
I have like a triple A card, which then brings my Hilton down.
01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:51.039
I also, for my lift, goes and brings me Hilton points as well.
01:12:51.199 --> 01:13:06.079
So doing those things that if you know you're gonna want to go to at least a few events, making sure that again, if you're I get like wanting to chase the lowest price, but I have found in my experience, sticking to one has helped to then have points and make stuff free and it ends up working out.
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:10.159
So those are a few of just like again the financial stuff that comes with it.
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:12.319
And I bring a lot of snacks.
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:18.079
Like I, you know, I'm somebody who just I'm not trying to again buy a$15 bag of chips at the airport or whatever.
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:26.960
So I have my water bottle, there's water fountains, like we're just making it work because again, it can get wild really quickly, it can just like go off the freaking rails.
01:13:27.279 --> 01:13:37.600
So um asking to volunteer, like there definitely are people that have volunteered at my events, so it's like, yeah, yeah, come like you can do this, you can do that, whatever.
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:45.119
Um, and then uh two, just again having a buddy to like basically be able to split all the costs for is another big thing.
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:46.159
So that's that.
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:49.359
And then the ROI part from the event of knowing what you want to get out of it.
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:57.119
Again, for me, I usually don't go into any events being like sales, like that just that just doesn't happen.
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:10.399
Um, but what I usually am looking at is again, people who I want to collaborate with, people who I really again admire their like point of view or their perspectives, and I want more of that in my life.
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:14.479
So it's like, let's just like be text friends or boxer friends or whatever.
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:18.560
And so, but if I'm speaking, it's a little bit more like I want leads.
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:26.399
But if I'm an attendee, it's really more visibility, collaborations, those sorts of those sorts of things is really what it what it comes down to.
01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:37.600
So, and how I know I'm gonna get an ROI again leans more to again, if I know somebody who's gone to it or is going to it, and just being familiar with the audience as well.
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:41.199
Like, for example, there's an event in Arizona called Powerhouse.
01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.159
It's an amazing event, and I'm not knocking it in any way, shape, or form.
01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:46.239
I know it would be a nightmare event for me.
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:58.239
Nothing to do with the host, nothing to do with anybody specifically, but again, it's very like everyone has to dress to the nines, everybody has like it's there's just a different vibe.
01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:02.640
They're dancing a lot, like those are just things that like I'm just not gonna like.
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:05.359
And I know it's a great event, people talk about how great it is.
01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:06.640
I will never go.
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:10.800
Not because, again, it's a bad event, but it's just a not right fit for me.
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:12.800
So I'm much more of like a kit vibe.
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:15.520
Again, I'll be cute, I'll be like one level cute.
01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:20.560
But like if you're asking me to be like five levels cute, I probably will never go to your event.
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:22.399
And you shouldn't change your dress code because of that.
01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:25.600
You should just keep with the people who want to do the five dress code, you know.
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:27.920
So another thing to note.
01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:29.119
I love that.
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:36.399
Kit was such a great conference, and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to share my unhinged tack on this podcast when you brought it up.
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:39.920
So we were at Hint uh Kit last year.
01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:43.600
I just um they gave me a bunch of books, like there's books everywhere.
01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:49.840
You're gonna go home with like 45 books, and I got all those books home, and I was like, I don't want all these books at my house.
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.159
And so I just threw them all up on eBay.
01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:54.079
I'm obsessed with eBay if you guys don't know.
01:15:54.239 --> 01:15:55.920
And they all sold like within a month.
01:15:56.079 --> 01:16:00.560
And I was like, if you wanted to pay for her whole trip, just collect all those books.
01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:01.439
Take those.
01:16:02.399 --> 01:16:05.279
I am loving this unhinged hack so very much.
01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:05.840
Oh my gosh.
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:08.640
I didn't go into it with that intention, but it like worked out perfectly.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:12.239
And I was like, well, if I go to Kid again, I'm just gonna grab all those books and it'll help us.
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:17.680
She's gonna need extra luggage because she's gonna be like, Do you guys have any extra books?
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:18.800
Do you want that book?
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:20.880
And everybody's like, right, sure.
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:23.840
No, you can have it, and you're like, Thank you so much, and like running away.
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:25.439
Well, I'm vacant back to last year.
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:26.560
There was whole stacks of books.
01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:29.199
They like I mean, there were huge stacks of books.
01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:30.640
I know it blew my mind.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:32.079
So, anyways, thanks for indulging me.
01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.880
Jordan, this conversation has been.
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:36.159
I love it so much.
01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:37.760
I didn't really know what to expect.
01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:39.760
I was like, oh, collabs, that's interesting.
01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:45.359
But like I've been kind of blown away with all the ways that these collabs have helped y'all's businesses, right?
01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:58.720
Like Mariah brought up at the beginning, this can help SEO, it helps your build network, it helps visibility, like the whole sales cycle, visibility leads, conversions, and then it helps with objection handling.
01:16:58.960 --> 01:17:02.720
Jordan, you brought up something about it, allows you to nurture your current audience.
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:11.920
Like you said, your current people are paying attention to what you're doing, and so they're getting you know a touch from you, which creating super fans is like the most valuable thing we can do.
01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:17.199
So it seems like for start to finish, collaborations are like a boom for business.
01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:21.840
But I'd love to hear, like, in some way from you, what keeps you coming back?
01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:24.319
Like, what is the biggest win of these collabs?
01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:27.439
Like for you, what where is the most value?
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.000
Yeah, that's a great question.
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:39.279
For me, I I just find joy in like cheering people on and being a part of their stuff.
01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:47.199
Like I, or having people be a part of my stuff, I think there's you know, you can do business alone.
01:17:47.279 --> 01:17:51.760
I do a lot of just like vibe coding in my bed and like chilling, and that's fun for me too.
01:17:51.920 --> 01:17:54.880
And doing my survivor reruns, Mariah, we got a lot to talk about.
01:17:55.119 --> 01:18:09.840
But like I find that when you are able to like truly create a win-win with people and like have it be a success for both parties in whichever way they're looking for, that's just fun.
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:18.800
There's just, I don't know if it's like a maybe it's addictive for me, I don't know, obsessive, but like I I genuinely get uh a ton of joy from that.
01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:24.000
And so I don't have to then there is a business side to it.
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:35.840
I can't just be frolicking the internet, but just for me, there is a level of genuine joy, and I think that comes across to people, and people know like when Jordan is sharing something, it's coming from a place of joy.
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:40.000
Like, if I am not interested, I'm I'm just gonna say no and I'm gonna move on.
01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:46.079
And so if I am sharing something, it's something that I find extremely important, whether it's for me or for my audience.
01:18:46.399 --> 01:18:58.960
And that helps come across because, like you said, uh Shay about super fans or just people paying attention to, if you're just wing-dinging things every week to people, it's like, do you even know this person?
01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:00.640
Like, is this an internet friend?
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:02.399
Like, what are we what are we doing here?
01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:04.479
Are you just getting paid to promote this?
01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:06.640
Like, right, exactly.
01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:34.640
So, you know, I think that it's really important to keep a pulse and a connection to potential collaborators and stuff like that, because also I think when you look at people who do just build businesses alone and who are isolated and whatever else, they may have a bigger business, so to speak, from a revenue, whatever standpoint, because they aren't distracted, they aren't being pulled in any directions, they're just like in their lane.
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:42.399
And at the same time, a lot of times I hear about way more burnout stories from those people or stories of like I hated my business and whatever.
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:50.399
And it's like, well, if you had people around you to like check you or to challenge you or to support you or to whatever, you might have caught that earlier.
01:19:50.560 --> 01:19:56.159
But because you're in an in a whatever isolated state, it might take you longer to realize that.
01:19:56.239 --> 01:20:00.159
And it may go to a place of, you know, knocking out your health or whatever the case is.
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:03.520
So I think that it's just it's a healthy way to go about business.
01:20:03.680 --> 01:20:05.199
It's a fun way to go about business.
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:13.760
And so that's that's really where where I come from and why I keep coming back and being the insane person that I am doing 50 to 60 a year.
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:16.800
Yeah, that was the part that struck me.
01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:21.840
I was like, maybe you're just having the opportunity to have some fun and have some human connection, right?
01:20:21.920 --> 01:20:30.319
And if I'm the lone wolf in my silo, of course, I'm gonna get burnt out and kind of miss a joyful parts of the work that I'm doing, right?
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:34.640
And so I um I like I said, I'm just totally taken aback.
01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:36.720
Thank you for sharing your expertise on this with us.
01:20:36.880 --> 01:20:39.680
Before we get into the curiosity question, I do want to check in with Mariah.
01:20:39.760 --> 01:20:43.039
Do you have any other like final questions about collabs that you want to wrap up?
01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:46.560
No, I was just gonna say, like, they're just fucking fun.
01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:48.079
They're just fucking fun.
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:51.039
It's a fun fucking way to run your business.
01:20:51.199 --> 01:21:09.520
Like when you feel passionate about your zone of genius, and then you connect with other people that also feel passionate about their zone of genius, and then you come together and both of you share your passions about this kind of stuff, it helps your audience because there's a lot of fucking weirdos online and like scammers and stuff like that.
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:15.760
And so, like just being able to develop your own network, being able to be a resource for yourself, for your people.
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:27.439
I just when you come from a place of joy and passion and fun, it really does keep you sustained for the long haul, kind of what you're doing, like what you're saying.
01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:32.399
But we do have one more question before that we ask everybody on the podcast.
01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:35.279
So, what's been sparking your curiosity lately?
01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:39.600
Oh my gosh, I'm going down quite a rabbit hole right now.
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:50.319
Two days ago, I was like, okay, I'm gonna get a Mac mini and I'm gonna go like full force into like how much can I automate in my business using AI.
01:21:50.960 --> 01:22:01.359
And again, without the relationship part, that's something that I'm just I personally just have a hard line on where I'm just that's just not where I'm gonna go when it comes to automating stuff.
01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:04.479
But pretty much everything else, I'm like, what can we do?
01:22:04.720 --> 01:22:14.720
And so I found um, or I remembered that I actually had kept like an old 2019 iMac, and so I pulled that bad boy out on Saturday.
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:40.800
And so your girl is going to be an absolute psychopath, and that computer is gonna be doing all sorts of magical things all day, every day for me, and I'm just super excited because you think about just how much we had to do before AI, and as someone who is like again, I'm stretched for time, I'm stretched because of my chronic illnesses.
01:22:40.960 --> 01:22:43.359
Like, there's only so much truly I can do.
01:22:43.600 --> 01:23:08.159
And so, to be given this opportunity to have a really robust system to be able to help support me, to be able to achieve at a level that I want to achieve, it's like such a dream come true, and that does not negate all of the craziness that is AI because I'm watching that too, and there is some scary stuff, so this is not just like a 100% pro AI for everybody, all the things.
01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:16.560
And for me, it really gives me an opportunity to do the things again at the level that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.
01:23:16.720 --> 01:23:29.520
So it's it's a feels like an accessibility um opportunity for me to just be like, okay, for people who have eight hours a day to work, what could happen if you know something was was doing something for me for eight hours?
01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.399
So that's what I'm genuinely curious about.
01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:40.720
And, you know, then also being able to share that with other people because I just have a big community of people who are stretched capacity-wise.
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:45.520
So I want to be able to share kind of my findings and what I'm learning out about.
01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:47.760
So that's what I'm curious about right now.
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:55.359
My husband and I were also digging old Macs out of the basement two weekends ago so Claude can have his own machine to work on.
01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:57.199
So I know exactly what you mean.
01:23:57.279 --> 01:24:00.159
And I can't wait to hear what you uncover from that process.
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:01.600
So please share that with us.
01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:04.640
Um, well, Jordan, it's always uh so fun.
01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:07.119
You always help me reconnect with the fun and the joy of this.
01:24:07.199 --> 01:24:09.199
Thank you for coming back on the podcast.
01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:15.760
Um, we'll make sure, actually, before we close down, where shouldn't our listeners connect with you, follow you?
01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:17.439
What do you have going on right now?
01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:18.239
Totally.
01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:29.439
So Instagram's my jam, still, or threads, like I said, if you're like wanting to share point of views and like go into the depths of like the paradise season finale and all these things, totally down to do that.
01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:32.319
Threads or Instagram are kind of my jams.
01:24:32.560 --> 01:24:36.239
Um, and you'll know whatever the latest things are that I'm shenanigans that I'm up to.
01:24:36.399 --> 01:24:37.680
It's gonna be out there somewhere.
01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:39.279
So yeah, those two places.
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:41.199
There's something cool going on on threads.
01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:43.359
I enjoy following you and Brian there for sure.
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:44.560
Um, all right, guys.
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:46.319
Well, follow us in those places.
01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:48.079
Thank you so much for sticking around this long.
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:50.239
I think we're ready to close this episode down.
01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:53.840
Remember, friends, you have the power to create whatever the hell you want.
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.600
Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
01:24:57.760 --> 01:24:59.840
We'll see you in the next episode.
