00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hell on wheels. Mackenzie Shrilla kills two young men and now demands Kim Kardashian come to her aid, amongst other diva commands. Good evening, I mean to see grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Seventeen year old Mackenzie Sherilla is driving home after a party with her boyfriend and a friend as passengers. Surveillance footage shows the Toyota Camry suddenly accelerating, reaching speeds of up to one hundred miles per hour as it moves through the area. Within seconds, a loud, violent crash is captured on camera.
00:00:45
Speaker 3: There's a car that's smashed up against the building. I didn't go up to it because I was on my motorcycle. I don't know I get stuck. But they ran the curb. I can see the They smashed the sign and hit the building. The car crashed.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: Let me understand, two young men, very young men, are dead because of Mackenzie Shrilla. Yet she is making diva demands, insisting that Kim Kardashian come defend her, and is upset the Today Show did not interview her. Okay, let me let that sink in for just one moment straight out to Joel Waldman Colost of surviving the survivor what happened to the victims?
00:01:38
Speaker 4: You know, obviously one hundred miles an hour into a brick wall. What's really interesting if you see, prior to crashing into the wall, there is a slow, meticulous turn, and that is why this bench judge eventually convicted Mackenzie Shirrilla these crimes. But they go directly into that brick wall. From what I understand, one of the two victims dies instantly, the other does not. Mackenzie Shirilla was never unconscious, was never unconscious at the hospital, and had her wits about her the entire time. So I was stunned to hear that.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Before we go to Dominic's sister Christaine, listen to this.
00:02:19
Speaker 5: I've never spoke before, and I never told my side of the story. And I understand there's many different sides to the story and different perspectives, but I just want to say my truth, and I just know myself, and I know I'm a monster my truth.
00:02:39
Speaker 1: I immediately get suspicious when someone says my truth, which means what your truth is different from everybody else's truth? How can that be that's reference at Netflix. You say, I know I'm not a monster. Yes you are. Listen.
00:02:52
Speaker 5: It was like five in the morning and we decided to head back to Dom's house, and I remember turning on the street and then I'm waking up in the hospital the next day and I don't.
00:03:09
Speaker 6: Then my whole life is shattered. I have no recollection of that morning. I'm not saying I'm innocent. I was a driver of a tragedy, but I'm not a murderer.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: That's from our friends at Netflix. She's lying through her teeth. Why is she saying I woke up in the hospital. Have no idea what happened. My whole life is shattered. Girl. They're dead, They're dead, Their families lives are shattered. Straight out to Christine Russo. This is Dominic's sister. She is the star of the Big Sister Unhinged podcast, trying to preserve her little brother's legacy. That's what she's left with. That is what her family is left with, dealing with this young man's death, needless, senseless death. Christaine, when you hear her talking, it's got to just push you over the edge.
00:04:20
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really makes me sick. Honestly, I I just watching that. I haven't seen that. I try not to listen or watch many things, but it just makes me absolutely sick.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: What happened when you learned Dominic had been killed?
00:04:39
Speaker 7: The second that I learned, or my family learned that Dominic had been killed, we are, like I say, there's before domb and after dumb. It's completely shattered. I can't even put into words how tragic this has been for our entire family, so much so that it's like I don't see this ever, just will never get better. There will be no, you know, anything getting better ever for us.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: What happened when you learned your brother had been killed?
00:05:11
Speaker 7: I got a phone call from my dad and he kept calling over and over and I get no reception, and alls I could hear was him saying Dom's gone. Dom's gone, but I have a few dums in my family. I didn't want to think my brother, you know, and it was we immediately left the island. My brother Mikey's rear ended somebody trying to get home so we could all be together, smash somebody's car up from behind, just completely Ever since then, like it's just tragic.
00:05:41
Speaker 1: Christine Russo joining us. This is Dominic's sister. It wasn't the moment, it wasn't a split second. It was her intentionally crashing into a fixed object, killing Dominic. That's what changed everyone's life forever. How many different people are things? Can she blind?
00:06:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, it wasn't a split second at all. She actually if you watch the video, you could tell they're fighting in the car on the main road. She keeps breaking her car. You could see the car lights breaking for no reason. The road was completely it is completely dead, nobody's on the road. And before the turn that you don't even have to break on, she's like slamming on her lights or slamming on her brakes, so you could see the break lights in the car. And from then on she just floored it one hundred percent. And it wasn't a split second. This took a long street. She floored it with no breaks the entire time into the building.
00:06:39
Speaker 1: The two arguing at the time, what is your theory, Christaine? Why did she do this?
00:06:46
Speaker 7: Dominic Hauld They were steady breaking up. Dominique had been trying to get rid of her and break up with her for quite some time. He's confided in his best friends and our closest siblings and things that he was. He was steady trying to break up with her, and I just think that she couldn't She couldn't have that, she couldn't understand that she wasn't willing to let him go.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Joel Wollman explained to me the physical evidence that she intentionally crashed and killed, not just dominant two people did.
00:07:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there are absolutely no skid marks. Obviously they did a crash investigation and homicide investigation kind of uh concurrently. But like I said, there was a slow turn just prior to this acceleration, so we know that she was in control of the car at least up to this point where we're seeing this car turn. There was you know, there was there was no health emergency. There was never any evidence of a health emergency. She claimed, and the family claims that she suffers from something called pot which affects your blood pressure. There was never any evidence admitted.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Is that her with a big fat blunt hold on, excuse me, Joel, please look at your Can we replay that? Is that her at the wheel with a big blunt Yeah?
00:08:14
Speaker 4: So so, Nancy, they you know, they tested her. There was psilocybin and marijuana in the car. She did test positive for that blunt, not that specific one, that's a different time, but she tested positive for marijuana and not for the psilocybin which are mushrooms, and not for alcohol. But yeah, I mean, he's she's just absolutely reckless driving around on prior occasions. And it's sad to say, but it's not all that surprising. I mean it's really it makes me indignant, Nancy. I know you get upset about these things, but to think that then seventeen year old just totally had no respect for these other two lives and is able to just do this, it just blows the mind. What is going on with this generation, with a society, with social media? What is happening?
00:09:09
Speaker 1: Joe will tell me about the victims. Dominic and Davian.
00:09:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean they were friends. Davian was a star football player at the high school dom He was a very studious person, took school us seriously. He was really into fashion. He had just set up an LLC, and he literally had his entire life ahead of him. I mean, dom was twenty years old. I mean that's you know, you and I Nancy, that's a little kid in his own mind, a young adult, and he had everything going as did a Davian. Flat again, I mean absolutely everything in front of them, completely stolen and ripped out from them. And you know, I felt Christine's pain. Christine, I think we'll talk about this. Her father has an illness and has not been well since this crash. And Nancy, you know better than anybody about the you know, ripple effect with victims and their family. And I'm sure, uh Davian's family, they are just gutted and crushed and I don't know that they will ever be the same.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: Well, to make matters worse, they got to hear.
00:10:20
Speaker 8: This, Tendy. It's on the Today Show. Why girl, I'm telling you the biggest plot twist of the century. Right, No, no, no, it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right, that's all right, plot twists, right, that's okay. Write your book, Start writing your book. You hear what I'm saying?
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Uh, I need to shrink. Doctor Cheryl Erp is with us. She is a licensed clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma. You can find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com. Did you hear the sulky silence? Wait, let's hear it one more time? Could you please play that one more time? These are tape recordings of the defendant, Shrilla behind bars, whining because the Today Show didn't come interview her.
00:11:26
Speaker 8: Candy. It's on the Today Show? Why, girl, I'm telling you for the biggest flat twist of the century. Right, No, no, no, it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right, that's all right, flat twist, Right, that's okay. Write your book? Aren't writing your book?
00:12:01
Speaker 1: You hear what I'm saying, Doctor Cheryl? Help me.
00:12:07
Speaker 9: What I am hearing is that this mom is walking on eggshells with her daughter even while she's confined in prison. That this young girl is so volatile and so difficult to deal with, that the mom is trying to engage and collude with this attention seeking and trying to twist this into some kind of positive thing. This is a tragic, awful situation. And I'm not seeing any evidence of pots, and I don't think pots could cause something like this to me. This seems a lot more consistent with a very severe form of borderline personality disorder, where people get incredibly volatile dysregular related are obsessed with fear of abandonment and can get really scary and act out in sometimes in really extreme ways when they think that someone is going to leave them. And it looks like Don was trying to break up with her for a long time, and doctor.
00:13:19
Speaker 1: Cheryl Errett, you're not suggesting that she is getting sulky about the Today Show? What does she wants to Savannah Guthrie to come interview her. Is that what she wants? That's not happening. I don't think that's happening anyway. And so you're saying this because she feels abandoned.
00:13:38
Speaker 9: I think that she had a lethal temper tantrum because she felt abandoned. I think that this happened because Don was trying to break.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: Up with her. Feels abandoned. She killed Dominic and Davian exactly, so they abandoned her. She killed them. I'm sorry, Are you actually saying she had a lethal temper tangent because she felt abandoned.
00:14:08
Speaker 9: Yes, I'm saying that because that is a symptom of an extreme form of borderline personality disorder, where people get desperate and act out when they think that.
00:14:19
Speaker 1: She does not look like she feels abandoned to me, she looks like she's high on pot and everything is about me. Me, me, me Me. Now, you said personality disorder, isn't a narcissistic personality a histrionic personality? Aren't those personality disorders as well? Wouldn't they fit her?
00:14:41
Speaker 9: Those are and people can have traits of narcissism and the histrionic as well. Absolutely that can exist. She does seem incredibly preoccupied with herself, and there is a real lack of empathy and awareness for what she has done to these young men and their families.
00:15:00
Speaker 1: Abandonment my career and objection, Myra Rand Christine Ruy said, will you help me and help you know? Typically I'm lock step with doctor Cheryl Eric. I hear what she's saying. I agree with it. She verbalizes it perfectly. But Srilla did not kill your brother because she was having feelings of abandonment.
00:15:30
Speaker 10: I don't know.
00:15:31
Speaker 7: I mean, I really think that. I guess he was trying to leave her. So I'm not a doctor. But she couldn't let go. And really, I think it was because she's so self absorbed. She cared about her image so much, about how she was gonna look after. She had absolutely no dumb no job, no school, nothing going for her. She's just a terrible person. She's the most terrible person. But I don't know it's I think she's so self absorbed. Just she couldn't she didn't want people to think that she was left or like she just couldn't let him go. I'm not sure.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: Okay, being angry because your boyfriend is dumping you and killing him is a lot different from reacting out of feelings of abandonment. Can I just see the videos of her again with that big fat bong and that big fat doobie. I'm not buying it to Doctor Thomas Coin joining us renow medical Examiner out of Tallahassee, Florida, never a lack of business at the morgue there. He is a toxicologist, forensic pathologist, and neuro pathologist. What happened to the victims? Doctor Coin?
00:16:44
Speaker 8: Sure?
00:16:44
Speaker 9: I mean.
00:16:47
Speaker 11: A classic example of a you know, a high velocity impact trauma, and so when the vehicle impacted the vehicle and as we discussed previously, going in proximately one hundred miles an hour. The rear passenger who was unrestrained, unfortunately, you know, upon impact and that sudden deceleration, his body more than likely would have been thrown forward in the vehicle, impacting not only other passengers but the vehicle itself, also intrusion of parts of the vehicle into the car and so and the front passenger as well. I think most of the impact was to that side of the vehicle, and so you think about just how much force is being applied to the head and neck as well as the body, vital organs that are housed in there, our brain, our heart, the aorta, and so those structures can tear or be crushed very easily with such forces, especially when you're going one hundred miles an hour.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: Another thing, they would have known what was about to happen, doctor Coin, because they could see what she was doing before their death. Absolutely.
00:17:56
Speaker 11: I mean there's nothing to suggest they were unconscious or incapacitated prior to impact, and so up until the point of impact, they would have certainly been aware of what was about to happen.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Before I go to veteran trial lawyer Derreck Smith. I want him to have all the evidence, including this secretly recorded phone call.
00:18:19
Speaker 12: Wait, it's all over the world now that today shows like national News.
00:18:22
Speaker 8: Okay, I'm going to tell you one more thing. What it was published in England? What yeh?
00:18:31
Speaker 12: World News?
00:18:34
Speaker 8: I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all their publications. But yeah, the UK. If I'm a Daily Mail in the UK.
00:18:43
Speaker 12: Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself.
00:18:45
Speaker 8: That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm hoping we're getting there. I was going to do this anyway, so this is.
00:18:51
Speaker 10: Great and they could just reach out to us.
00:18:55
Speaker 9: Mm hmmm.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: Craziness, baby girl, Christine and Resai. Why are they laughing.
00:19:05
Speaker 7: You? Somebody tell me that please. That's It's the most twisted, most evil laugh to me that I've ever heard in my life. I don't understand why they think this is funny or why her being an evil murderer for the entire world to see, how that's funny to them? I really truly believe, and that's why I'm starting this. The doms and Davion's law is that they care so much about her becoming famous and popular that that is what they're set out to do, and that's what they've always cared about. It's always been about becoming Instagram famous, TikTok famous for years, even after she killed my brother and Davion, she laid in the hospital, but hours after killing two people, hours after filming herself making tiktoks and trying her and her mother trying to get modeling gigs on Instagram within hours after killing people. That's all they care about is fame. People talking about them. They think that they're going to get the attention of Kim Kardashian and somehow they're going to get rich and get out. I think they're completely delusional.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: Straight out to special guest joining us in addition to Dom's sister, Christine Rousseau, Cheyenne Topping is with us, and this is Shrilla's prison girlfriend for nearly a year. Cheyenne, what do you make of what you are seeing and hearing tonight?
00:20:36
Speaker 13: I think it's really crazy about like how big of this all stuff was, especially coming from the inside and seeing it when I got out.
00:20:45
Speaker 1: Tell me how Sharrilla spoke of the murder victims.
00:20:55
Speaker 13: So whenever Mackenzie would speak of Dom or Davian, she did speak like really iley of them, which is expected of someone going through an appeal trying to get out for murder. So I didn't really like tune into it to it a lot because I knew it just wasn't genuine.
00:21:13
Speaker 1: Is it true that Shrilla constantly walked the track to keep up her figure?
00:21:19
Speaker 13: Yeah, that is true. She also had a race trainer that I have no idea where she got it from. She must have bought it from one of the pregnant girls that came in. She would wear that every day in prison too.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: What is that like a race trainer?
00:21:34
Speaker 13: You know? You could wrap it around your uh to not to so you're abb them in area, pull it tight so it keeps you your hips like more in Okay?
00:21:45
Speaker 1: Good to know. So beside working on her figure behind bars, is that so she'll look good when she gets out and becomes a star.
00:21:56
Speaker 13: That's what she's planning on. What she was telling me in there, She said she was so glad that in the crash her face did not get messed up because she was going to get a model. She had a modeling gig waiting on her when she got out. That she was gonna then, wasn't eating the prison food because she didn't want it to mess up her figure as well, and as you know, the waist trainer and everything. So yes, that's what she's planning on.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me understand. This guy's joining me as a special guest.
00:22:22
Speaker 6: This is.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: Shrilla Mackenzie, Shrilla's girlfriend behind bars nearly a year. What modeling gigs did she think she was getting when she gets out.
00:22:34
Speaker 13: I guess someone had commented on her Instagram post and so they were interested in working with her, which was was showed in the documentary. But at the time I did not know that because I was still in prison and it hadn't dropped yet, but she had mentioned to me that she was getting one.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand. Did she really believe Kim Kardashian was going to come defend her?
00:22:57
Speaker 13: Yeah, she one hundred percent believed that Kim Kardashian's going to come and save her, and she was gonna overturn her, as she said, wrongly convicted.
00:23:06
Speaker 1: Case, wrongly convicted. Okay, here she is going on behind bars about Kim Kardashian.
00:23:13
Speaker 8: My mom is like, well, maybe Kim Kardashian scene, and I was.
00:23:16
Speaker 4: Like, oh, yeah, maybe Kim will now that it's like all of it.
00:23:19
Speaker 12: I was like, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will see it.
00:23:24
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:23:24
Speaker 12: You have to figure out because I'm real nervous and I want Kim Kardashian to be my lawyer.
00:23:29
Speaker 14: She's a lawyer.
00:23:30
Speaker 8: She gets innocent people out of jail.
00:23:35
Speaker 12: Kim work hard, she is miss Kimberly. We're gonna have her, get you out.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian, don't do it. Don't do it. Okay. Back to Cheyenne Topping. So she thinks she's going to be a model. She wears a contraption to help her figure. She walks the track all the time. Does she ever reach out to the victims' families to make amends or apologize for what happened.
00:24:07
Speaker 13: Not that I know of. When she was telling me and there when I was with her, she told me actually that they were all cool and that they were coming to court for her to defend her. So I was like, because that's one reason why I think, Okay, maybe this was an accident. When I was in there with her, because she told me the family was siding with her.
00:24:27
Speaker 1: Okay, how likely is that, Christine Russo, that you are going to try and help her get out of jail.
00:24:35
Speaker 7: There's not a chance in this lifetime, or next or the following. There's not even a slight chance that not one single person in our family or a distant relative would ever do such a thing.
00:24:48
Speaker 1: Yanne Topping, you mentioned that she's absolutely certain she's getting a modeling gig when she gets out right.
00:24:55
Speaker 13: Yeah, she truly believes that she is.
00:24:58
Speaker 1: Guys, she is extremely interested in the so called hot felon. Listen.
00:25:05
Speaker 12: I just know I have this feeling that something's gonna happen, like with all these people reaching out like it makes me feel like, Look, you remember that one guy who got arrested for murder and he became like a model, Like I watched a movie with him and you did. Yes, it's called the Secret Society.
00:25:23
Speaker 8: It's a good as he was arrested for murder, he probably didn't even do anything.
00:25:27
Speaker 1: Straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Derek Smith has tried a lot of cases and you can find him at d W Smith Legal dot com. Derek, Okay, so let's just pretend you get a new trial let's just pretend which is not gonna happen. Let's just pretend all of this is gonna come into evidence, all of these phone calls, because the law is the jury can consider what happened before, during, and after the event.
00:25:57
Speaker 15: Well, I mean, they're gonna try, I mean, as far as the prospect goes to get this in evidence. But unfortunately for them, she does have fantastic legal representation. Her case is in my home jurisdiction here in Cleveland. I've been following it closely since it happened. So they'll do their best to try to get all that stuff in. But I have a feeling that if that does, you know, get remanded for a new trial, that they're not going to be able to because it's overly prejudicial. A lot of speculation, a lot of back and forth with mom and things like that, and her outstanding legal defense will make sure that that does not get in.
00:26:26
Speaker 1: Put them up, Derek Smith. When you say it's a lot of speculation, it's not speculation as to whether it is her on the phone and the mom on the phone, So that is not a ground for suppression of these tapes. They are speculating about when Savannah Guthrie is going to come interview her for the Today Show. That's the only speculation going on around here. But wait a minute, hold on, listen to this, Derek, and you might as well start quickly coming up with something to say.
00:26:57
Speaker 12: Please don't forget to change my Instagram biotry again with that one Instagram account and change my name to that.
00:27:02
Speaker 8: Ain't Hayton.
00:27:04
Speaker 12: You're doing something wrong.
00:27:06
Speaker 8: You're doing something wrong, Kendy. That may that may look bad right now. Okay, I'll put free Kendy on there, but that's gonna look bad.
00:27:15
Speaker 12: Hashtag innocent there, just doing all the hashtags and delete my bio.
00:27:20
Speaker 10: Just do the hashtags in my bio, Derek.
00:27:23
Speaker 1: The mom is saying that might look a tiny bit bad right now. Really, yeah, it looks bad. It is prejudicial because everything she said is like a it's like a treasure trove of information for the prosecution to show her frame of mind.
00:27:42
Speaker 15: Oh no, absolutely, there's got to be a men's rea, you know, to make these charges stick. You know, the intent. But in her mind, she's innocent, Nancy. And this case is still on appeal, so you know, if this case does get remanded back, you got an innocent, got an innocent girl in jail that now gets another day in court. And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna be able to get some of these calls, any of these things admitted into evidence, because it really doesn't have to do with the underlying intent for the underlying offense that she was convicted of, you know, by a judge. In this case, it was tried to the bench. It was not to a jury.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I appreciate that. And somehow, Derek, you've managed to spin all that hay into gold yet again. Kat Crowder joining me right now, inmate who did time with Shirrilla, Kat, thank you for being with us. What was she like behind bars?
00:28:33
Speaker 14: McKenzie, Shirrilla was completely different than the girl that was portrayed in the documentary. She was very similar to these videos that we're seeing here, very much, you know, makeup done every single day, had her clothes altered to fit her tight, hair done, gems in her hair, very girly and attention seeking. Look at me, look at me, Look at me.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: Okay. I want you to listen to her making another demand to her mother, demanding she wants her iPad. That's the last thing that Jill wants is to hear somebody's mommy whining that their killer daughter doesn't have an iPad.
00:29:15
Speaker 12: Listen, I really want my iPad though here.
00:29:18
Speaker 8: They have any idea when they're going to bring it to you? Do you have any idea?
00:29:21
Speaker 12: I'm about to ask can you call and ask please? Please?
00:29:24
Speaker 8: Because that's because blessed than I called about your thing. They were like, if I do that and that's special treatment, she you know you'll get it way you get it.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Why has anybody on this panel ever heard of pig Latin? My name is auntcy Nay Race Gray. Okay, you a on the end of every word. Okay, These two spoke in code I E. Pig Latin.
00:29:55
Speaker 10: Listen hear we do the eating easier fuser?
00:30:02
Speaker 8: Oh god, oh my god?
00:30:05
Speaker 1: Is right?
00:30:05
Speaker 10: Yes, it's either we don't need to shed like she didn't even need it far readrate, which one we don't be easily get? Either mean them.
00:30:23
Speaker 8: Great expeak like that, you know, like we don't forget. Don't forget? You said, Can I say it out? Can I say it return? Just to make sure I can talk right, you're saying rape, you know, don't forget? That might not be what really happened. She's being accused of that. Eve either be the leading Peter right, because those people say that all the time to get other people in trouble. Will you see that's happening to you?
00:30:58
Speaker 1: What is old Cat Crowder joining me in May? Who did time with Shririlla? What is she doing?
00:31:09
Speaker 14: I mean, I have absolutely no idea. You know, there's been a lot of speculation about what that language is, from Gypsy to pig Latin, all these things. I think it's just mind blowing how fast and quickly they understand what each other are saying, because I can't even begin to dissect that. When I was incarcerated with her, I personally never heard her speak in that language.
00:31:36
Speaker 8: Black girl like crazy.
00:31:37
Speaker 12: Ooh, remember, don't drive because that's murder if you drive with that.
00:31:42
Speaker 8: I mean, for real, right, that's so wrong?
00:31:44
Speaker 12: And do you put that on your license?
00:31:48
Speaker 8: I should really update my We have one minute left. There's people with epilepsy.
00:31:57
Speaker 14: Good.
00:31:58
Speaker 8: You do not have to put that on your license that you have epilepsy like litteral epilepsy.
00:32:03
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand what I'm hearing. Joel Waldman is joining US co hostar Surviving the survivor. She's now trying to claim that she blacked out and that's what happened. Then how did she keep her foot on the gas?
00:32:20
Speaker 5: Yeah?
00:32:20
Speaker 4: I mean this family. The more I'm listening to all these clips you're playing, Nancy, and I've heard bits and pieces of a lot of them, they're simply pathological. You know, I'll give you a diagnosis. And I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a psychologist, but my dad may rest in peace with a psychiatrist. He'd call her a spoiled brat. And it's just to a level that I have never ever seen before. You know, after the fact, they're now claiming she had this respiratory illness, pots that she had had these blackouts. But look this went and Nancy, this is your wheelhouse. This went to a trial. They chose a bench trial, meaning a judge and not a jury of her peers, and she was convicted on twelve pounds. I had someone on my show tweet at me saying, oh, you're only showing one side of the story. I don't see a second side of this story. Here would I interview the Shirrillas. Yeah, but I think they raised a bad seed. I don't know if it was you know, nature or nurture, but there is something massively wrong with this family all around.
00:33:25
Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of the conversations we've gotten on tape.
00:33:29
Speaker 8: People are very into like people that are in jail, especially a few people that they think we're cute. Would just be careful and I'm cute a and.
00:33:35
Speaker 12: I'm not looking for any relationships.
00:33:39
Speaker 16: Got some really orange.
00:33:41
Speaker 12: I'm like the prettiest person here, Like I feel that I even saying that, But I.
00:33:45
Speaker 8: Wonder if you like it's community shower on the other levels too.
00:33:49
Speaker 16: Oh no, I don't care, like I'm scared.
00:33:54
Speaker 8: Scared to shower, right yeah, yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Kat Crowder joining us inmate who did time with Mackenzie Shirilla, I'm like the prettiest one here. I'm afraid to get in a shower. Really was everybody that focused on her, you.
00:34:12
Speaker 14: Know, in the grand retrospect, everybody that we were in curs here with. When you get into general population or if you've been there, you knew what she was in there for. It is a high profile case and prison is a gossip mill, so you did find out quickly. And I do think that she thrived off of the fact that everyone knew that this is Mackenzie Shrilla. Now where the inmates phased by her?
00:34:37
Speaker 1: No?
00:34:38
Speaker 14: I mean there's hundreds of people. We've got the microwave mom. We got all the people in there that are there for high profile cases that have been on the news, that you know are there, but they don't necessarily carry themselves in the same way that Mackenzie did. It was almost as if she wanted to be a socialite of prison, which is just wild.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: Is this your recollection of her that it's all about her even behind bars? Forget the victims, It's about her getting on the Today Show, It's about her Instagram account, It's about her being the quote cutest one behind bars? Was that your experience with her?
00:35:16
Speaker 9: Cat Crowder, I'm one hundred percent, you know.
00:35:22
Speaker 14: While I was in there and I kind of proclaimed myself as a very girly girl, I could never get the energy to wake up at six o'clock in the morning and put on a full face of makeup and do my hair, because one, I'm sitting in prison. In two, who am I trying to look good for? These This is not a club or a school dance or something of the sorts, so it gave off, you know, like I want this attention. I think I'm holier than now. I'm the Mackenzie shrilla. And she walked the yard every single day all day long. She went to the gym, she went line dancing, that she went to all the classes, and it was almost as if she was treating it like a popularity contest.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: You know, that personality it's all about me, is not going to help anything at a retrial. There is no way this woman could ever get on the stand Derek Smith.
00:36:23
Speaker 15: Oh no, she again. As you know, she has a right not to take the stand, and she didn't the first time. So I don't anticipate if this does get remanded for another one, for anything to change in that regard. But it is her constitutional right if she wants to get up there and speak her mind, speak her peace about you know, what she thinks were the events leading up to this tragic event. She has every right to do that. But I'm pretty sure her excellent legal team we'll talk some sense in her about that.
00:36:47
Speaker 1: I love what you just said, Derek Smith. She can get on the stand and say what she thinks happen in her own mind, which is not what happened at all. Okay, hold on, when we wonder why someone behaves this way where everything is about them, have you ever heard the phrase the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
00:37:10
Speaker 16: I hope I'm gonna comes back and place everybody that's against you and so hard that they all disappear. That's all I said. And if I had a magic wand if I had a magic wand I wouldn't go back and help Beatian first, I'd make everybody else together, I cut my fingers and everybody would disappear. That's that's what I would doings That's how that's how angry I am. They they screwed you so bad.
00:37:34
Speaker 1: Doctor ryl Eric joining us. They're feeding the monster. Newbody has ever said what you did was wrong. You're going to jail for this, and when you get out, hopefully you can start over. Well, they're feeding her this line that it's she's the one that's the victim.
00:37:58
Speaker 9: You are so right, and right now my heart is breaking for Christine listening to this right now. They are feeding the monster. This is an extraordinarily abusive person. This was a violent person. And you know what, a lot of the time, most of the time. This is easier to see when it's the guy who is the abuser and he is controlling and threatening to break things and threatening to violence and all of this if the girl leaves. You have seen a million cases where it's if I can't have you, no one can. This family is completely wrapped up in themselves, but it's like nobody else matters that.
00:38:39
Speaker 1: Yes, that is also.
00:38:40
Speaker 9: Narcissism, but this is violence, power and control, intimate partner violence. But the abuser was her, and when she was threatened with being rejected and him leaving, which as we know, is the most dangerous time in a domestic violence relationship, that's when the partner is trying to leave is most likely to be killed. I gotta double down, Nancy. This is that kind of situation where she acted out in a way. Maybe she intended also to go with them, but she pulled out all the stops literally, and there's some evidence that the boys may have tried to pull the car out of gear and do something to stop this. But this was an absolutely horrific acting outrage. And now that the family is trying to make it seem like she's the victim, maybe they can parlay this into some kind of fame, and it's it's it's appalling.
00:39:42
Speaker 1: To Christine Russo, Dominic's sister star off the Big Sister Unhinged podcast, creating and curating her brother's legacy. I'd like to hear your response to everything we've just said guests tonight.
00:40:02
Speaker 7: Honestly, I'm really I'm happy that you guys in the world are seeing through her and that I don't have to sit here and my family doesn't have to sit here and suffer ourselves like we have been for four years. Because this the movie just came out. We've been dealing with this for quite some time now. Since the second she was arrested. If you know, it was immediate, immediate, just denial, no remorse, no accountability, victim shaming, blaming you know, my parents, these shrillas have not stopped. Uh, They've been doing interviews this week where they're still blaming my brother for his death or blaming my parents. So I'm actually kind of I'm glad to see that the world sees through her and who she truly is. I really hope with what you know this coming out. I've tried to make something anything positive out of this tragedy by doing the domind Davion's Law or the foundation that I started for him, just trying to make something anything positive to turn this into. But I'm glad that the world sees her now for who she is.
00:41:14
Speaker 1: So Christine, I'm glad you brought up dom and Davian's law because many states have son of Sam law, not all of them, which precludes you from profiting off of your crime. Not all states have that. I don't even know if it's half the country, but social media has far outpaced what Son of Sam laws protect what they do, and the law must be updated to address social media fame or that type of enrichment. What is dom and Davian's law.
00:41:54
Speaker 7: It's just the modernization of the Son of Sam. So, like you said, it was written. I think they came up with that in the seventy where just cover journals, movies, and like news deals. Now with the digital era, you have social media Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, there's go fund me set out. She's been getting thousands of dollars in donations. By the way, they've set up different accounts. This will help protect different loopholes so that victims don't have to watch somebody who killed their loved ones, get attention, fame fortune. Basically, I'm trying to prevent her from becoming gypsy ros. The next gypsy rows and it is a it's just a modernization of that and to stop her or her family from finding loopholes and having her benefit off of my brothers and Davion's death.
00:42:47
Speaker 1: Dom and Davian's Law. Every state could benefit from that. We remember American hero Corporal Very Fast, Arlington County, p Date, Virginia. He passed way from cancer after nine eleven. He endured September eleven after thirty seven years on the force. He loves behind his wife Karen and his daughter Natalie. American hero Corporal Barry Faust. Thank you to our guest, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend,
Speaker 1: Hell on wheels. Mackenzie Shrilla kills two young men and now demands Kim Kardashian come to her aid, amongst other diva commands. Good evening, I mean to see grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Seventeen year old Mackenzie Sherilla is driving home after a party with her boyfriend and a friend as passengers. Surveillance footage shows the Toyota Camry suddenly accelerating, reaching speeds of up to one hundred miles per hour as it moves through the area. Within seconds, a loud, violent crash is captured on camera.
00:00:45
Speaker 3: There's a car that's smashed up against the building. I didn't go up to it because I was on my motorcycle. I don't know I get stuck. But they ran the curb. I can see the They smashed the sign and hit the building. The car crashed.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: Let me understand, two young men, very young men, are dead because of Mackenzie Shrilla. Yet she is making diva demands, insisting that Kim Kardashian come defend her, and is upset the Today Show did not interview her. Okay, let me let that sink in for just one moment straight out to Joel Waldman Colost of surviving the survivor what happened to the victims?
00:01:38
Speaker 4: You know, obviously one hundred miles an hour into a brick wall. What's really interesting if you see, prior to crashing into the wall, there is a slow, meticulous turn, and that is why this bench judge eventually convicted Mackenzie Shirrilla these crimes. But they go directly into that brick wall. From what I understand, one of the two victims dies instantly, the other does not. Mackenzie Shirilla was never unconscious, was never unconscious at the hospital, and had her wits about her the entire time. So I was stunned to hear that.
00:02:15
Speaker 1: Before we go to Dominic's sister Christaine, listen to this.
00:02:19
Speaker 5: I've never spoke before, and I never told my side of the story. And I understand there's many different sides to the story and different perspectives, but I just want to say my truth, and I just know myself, and I know I'm a monster my truth.
00:02:39
Speaker 1: I immediately get suspicious when someone says my truth, which means what your truth is different from everybody else's truth? How can that be that's reference at Netflix. You say, I know I'm not a monster. Yes you are. Listen.
00:02:52
Speaker 5: It was like five in the morning and we decided to head back to Dom's house, and I remember turning on the street and then I'm waking up in the hospital the next day and I don't.
00:03:09
Speaker 6: Then my whole life is shattered. I have no recollection of that morning. I'm not saying I'm innocent. I was a driver of a tragedy, but I'm not a murderer.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: That's from our friends at Netflix. She's lying through her teeth. Why is she saying I woke up in the hospital. Have no idea what happened. My whole life is shattered. Girl. They're dead, They're dead, Their families lives are shattered. Straight out to Christine Russo. This is Dominic's sister. She is the star of the Big Sister Unhinged podcast, trying to preserve her little brother's legacy. That's what she's left with. That is what her family is left with, dealing with this young man's death, needless, senseless death. Christaine, when you hear her talking, it's got to just push you over the edge.
00:04:20
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really makes me sick. Honestly, I I just watching that. I haven't seen that. I try not to listen or watch many things, but it just makes me absolutely sick.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: What happened when you learned Dominic had been killed?
00:04:39
Speaker 7: The second that I learned, or my family learned that Dominic had been killed, we are, like I say, there's before domb and after dumb. It's completely shattered. I can't even put into words how tragic this has been for our entire family, so much so that it's like I don't see this ever, just will never get better. There will be no, you know, anything getting better ever for us.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: What happened when you learned your brother had been killed?
00:05:11
Speaker 7: I got a phone call from my dad and he kept calling over and over and I get no reception, and alls I could hear was him saying Dom's gone. Dom's gone, but I have a few dums in my family. I didn't want to think my brother, you know, and it was we immediately left the island. My brother Mikey's rear ended somebody trying to get home so we could all be together, smash somebody's car up from behind, just completely Ever since then, like it's just tragic.
00:05:41
Speaker 1: Christine Russo joining us. This is Dominic's sister. It wasn't the moment, it wasn't a split second. It was her intentionally crashing into a fixed object, killing Dominic. That's what changed everyone's life forever. How many different people are things? Can she blind?
00:06:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, it wasn't a split second at all. She actually if you watch the video, you could tell they're fighting in the car on the main road. She keeps breaking her car. You could see the car lights breaking for no reason. The road was completely it is completely dead, nobody's on the road. And before the turn that you don't even have to break on, she's like slamming on her lights or slamming on her brakes, so you could see the break lights in the car. And from then on she just floored it one hundred percent. And it wasn't a split second. This took a long street. She floored it with no breaks the entire time into the building.
00:06:39
Speaker 1: The two arguing at the time, what is your theory, Christaine? Why did she do this?
00:06:46
Speaker 7: Dominic Hauld They were steady breaking up. Dominique had been trying to get rid of her and break up with her for quite some time. He's confided in his best friends and our closest siblings and things that he was. He was steady trying to break up with her, and I just think that she couldn't She couldn't have that, she couldn't understand that she wasn't willing to let him go.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Joel Wollman explained to me the physical evidence that she intentionally crashed and killed, not just dominant two people did.
00:07:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there are absolutely no skid marks. Obviously they did a crash investigation and homicide investigation kind of uh concurrently. But like I said, there was a slow turn just prior to this acceleration, so we know that she was in control of the car at least up to this point where we're seeing this car turn. There was you know, there was there was no health emergency. There was never any evidence of a health emergency. She claimed, and the family claims that she suffers from something called pot which affects your blood pressure. There was never any evidence admitted.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Is that her with a big fat blunt hold on, excuse me, Joel, please look at your Can we replay that? Is that her at the wheel with a big blunt Yeah?
00:08:14
Speaker 4: So so, Nancy, they you know, they tested her. There was psilocybin and marijuana in the car. She did test positive for that blunt, not that specific one, that's a different time, but she tested positive for marijuana and not for the psilocybin which are mushrooms, and not for alcohol. But yeah, I mean, he's she's just absolutely reckless driving around on prior occasions. And it's sad to say, but it's not all that surprising. I mean it's really it makes me indignant, Nancy. I know you get upset about these things, but to think that then seventeen year old just totally had no respect for these other two lives and is able to just do this, it just blows the mind. What is going on with this generation, with a society, with social media? What is happening?
00:09:09
Speaker 1: Joe will tell me about the victims. Dominic and Davian.
00:09:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean they were friends. Davian was a star football player at the high school dom He was a very studious person, took school us seriously. He was really into fashion. He had just set up an LLC, and he literally had his entire life ahead of him. I mean, dom was twenty years old. I mean that's you know, you and I Nancy, that's a little kid in his own mind, a young adult, and he had everything going as did a Davian. Flat again, I mean absolutely everything in front of them, completely stolen and ripped out from them. And you know, I felt Christine's pain. Christine, I think we'll talk about this. Her father has an illness and has not been well since this crash. And Nancy, you know better than anybody about the you know, ripple effect with victims and their family. And I'm sure, uh Davian's family, they are just gutted and crushed and I don't know that they will ever be the same.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: Well, to make matters worse, they got to hear.
00:10:20
Speaker 8: This, Tendy. It's on the Today Show. Why girl, I'm telling you the biggest plot twist of the century. Right, No, no, no, it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right, that's all right, plot twists, right, that's okay. Write your book, Start writing your book. You hear what I'm saying?
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Uh, I need to shrink. Doctor Cheryl Erp is with us. She is a licensed clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma. You can find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com. Did you hear the sulky silence? Wait, let's hear it one more time? Could you please play that one more time? These are tape recordings of the defendant, Shrilla behind bars, whining because the Today Show didn't come interview her.
00:11:26
Speaker 8: Candy. It's on the Today Show? Why, girl, I'm telling you for the biggest flat twist of the century. Right, No, no, no, it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right, that's all right, flat twist, Right, that's okay. Write your book? Aren't writing your book?
00:12:01
Speaker 1: You hear what I'm saying, Doctor Cheryl? Help me.
00:12:07
Speaker 9: What I am hearing is that this mom is walking on eggshells with her daughter even while she's confined in prison. That this young girl is so volatile and so difficult to deal with, that the mom is trying to engage and collude with this attention seeking and trying to twist this into some kind of positive thing. This is a tragic, awful situation. And I'm not seeing any evidence of pots, and I don't think pots could cause something like this to me. This seems a lot more consistent with a very severe form of borderline personality disorder, where people get incredibly volatile dysregular related are obsessed with fear of abandonment and can get really scary and act out in sometimes in really extreme ways when they think that someone is going to leave them. And it looks like Don was trying to break up with her for a long time, and doctor.
00:13:19
Speaker 1: Cheryl Errett, you're not suggesting that she is getting sulky about the Today Show? What does she wants to Savannah Guthrie to come interview her. Is that what she wants? That's not happening. I don't think that's happening anyway. And so you're saying this because she feels abandoned.
00:13:38
Speaker 9: I think that she had a lethal temper tantrum because she felt abandoned. I think that this happened because Don was trying to break.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: Up with her. Feels abandoned. She killed Dominic and Davian exactly, so they abandoned her. She killed them. I'm sorry, Are you actually saying she had a lethal temper tangent because she felt abandoned.
00:14:08
Speaker 9: Yes, I'm saying that because that is a symptom of an extreme form of borderline personality disorder, where people get desperate and act out when they think that.
00:14:19
Speaker 1: She does not look like she feels abandoned to me, she looks like she's high on pot and everything is about me. Me, me, me Me. Now, you said personality disorder, isn't a narcissistic personality a histrionic personality? Aren't those personality disorders as well? Wouldn't they fit her?
00:14:41
Speaker 9: Those are and people can have traits of narcissism and the histrionic as well. Absolutely that can exist. She does seem incredibly preoccupied with herself, and there is a real lack of empathy and awareness for what she has done to these young men and their families.
00:15:00
Speaker 1: Abandonment my career and objection, Myra Rand Christine Ruy said, will you help me and help you know? Typically I'm lock step with doctor Cheryl Eric. I hear what she's saying. I agree with it. She verbalizes it perfectly. But Srilla did not kill your brother because she was having feelings of abandonment.
00:15:30
Speaker 10: I don't know.
00:15:31
Speaker 7: I mean, I really think that. I guess he was trying to leave her. So I'm not a doctor. But she couldn't let go. And really, I think it was because she's so self absorbed. She cared about her image so much, about how she was gonna look after. She had absolutely no dumb no job, no school, nothing going for her. She's just a terrible person. She's the most terrible person. But I don't know it's I think she's so self absorbed. Just she couldn't she didn't want people to think that she was left or like she just couldn't let him go. I'm not sure.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: Okay, being angry because your boyfriend is dumping you and killing him is a lot different from reacting out of feelings of abandonment. Can I just see the videos of her again with that big fat bong and that big fat doobie. I'm not buying it to Doctor Thomas Coin joining us renow medical Examiner out of Tallahassee, Florida, never a lack of business at the morgue there. He is a toxicologist, forensic pathologist, and neuro pathologist. What happened to the victims? Doctor Coin?
00:16:44
Speaker 8: Sure?
00:16:44
Speaker 9: I mean.
00:16:47
Speaker 11: A classic example of a you know, a high velocity impact trauma, and so when the vehicle impacted the vehicle and as we discussed previously, going in proximately one hundred miles an hour. The rear passenger who was unrestrained, unfortunately, you know, upon impact and that sudden deceleration, his body more than likely would have been thrown forward in the vehicle, impacting not only other passengers but the vehicle itself, also intrusion of parts of the vehicle into the car and so and the front passenger as well. I think most of the impact was to that side of the vehicle, and so you think about just how much force is being applied to the head and neck as well as the body, vital organs that are housed in there, our brain, our heart, the aorta, and so those structures can tear or be crushed very easily with such forces, especially when you're going one hundred miles an hour.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: Another thing, they would have known what was about to happen, doctor Coin, because they could see what she was doing before their death. Absolutely.
00:17:56
Speaker 11: I mean there's nothing to suggest they were unconscious or incapacitated prior to impact, and so up until the point of impact, they would have certainly been aware of what was about to happen.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Before I go to veteran trial lawyer Derreck Smith. I want him to have all the evidence, including this secretly recorded phone call.
00:18:19
Speaker 12: Wait, it's all over the world now that today shows like national News.
00:18:22
Speaker 8: Okay, I'm going to tell you one more thing. What it was published in England? What yeh?
00:18:31
Speaker 12: World News?
00:18:34
Speaker 8: I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all their publications. But yeah, the UK. If I'm a Daily Mail in the UK.
00:18:43
Speaker 12: Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself.
00:18:45
Speaker 8: That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm hoping we're getting there. I was going to do this anyway, so this is.
00:18:51
Speaker 10: Great and they could just reach out to us.
00:18:55
Speaker 9: Mm hmmm.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: Craziness, baby girl, Christine and Resai. Why are they laughing.
00:19:05
Speaker 7: You? Somebody tell me that please. That's It's the most twisted, most evil laugh to me that I've ever heard in my life. I don't understand why they think this is funny or why her being an evil murderer for the entire world to see, how that's funny to them? I really truly believe, and that's why I'm starting this. The doms and Davion's law is that they care so much about her becoming famous and popular that that is what they're set out to do, and that's what they've always cared about. It's always been about becoming Instagram famous, TikTok famous for years, even after she killed my brother and Davion, she laid in the hospital, but hours after killing two people, hours after filming herself making tiktoks and trying her and her mother trying to get modeling gigs on Instagram within hours after killing people. That's all they care about is fame. People talking about them. They think that they're going to get the attention of Kim Kardashian and somehow they're going to get rich and get out. I think they're completely delusional.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: Straight out to special guest joining us in addition to Dom's sister, Christine Rousseau, Cheyenne Topping is with us, and this is Shrilla's prison girlfriend for nearly a year. Cheyenne, what do you make of what you are seeing and hearing tonight?
00:20:36
Speaker 13: I think it's really crazy about like how big of this all stuff was, especially coming from the inside and seeing it when I got out.
00:20:45
Speaker 1: Tell me how Sharrilla spoke of the murder victims.
00:20:55
Speaker 13: So whenever Mackenzie would speak of Dom or Davian, she did speak like really iley of them, which is expected of someone going through an appeal trying to get out for murder. So I didn't really like tune into it to it a lot because I knew it just wasn't genuine.
00:21:13
Speaker 1: Is it true that Shrilla constantly walked the track to keep up her figure?
00:21:19
Speaker 13: Yeah, that is true. She also had a race trainer that I have no idea where she got it from. She must have bought it from one of the pregnant girls that came in. She would wear that every day in prison too.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: What is that like a race trainer?
00:21:34
Speaker 13: You know? You could wrap it around your uh to not to so you're abb them in area, pull it tight so it keeps you your hips like more in Okay?
00:21:45
Speaker 1: Good to know. So beside working on her figure behind bars, is that so she'll look good when she gets out and becomes a star.
00:21:56
Speaker 13: That's what she's planning on. What she was telling me in there, She said she was so glad that in the crash her face did not get messed up because she was going to get a model. She had a modeling gig waiting on her when she got out. That she was gonna then, wasn't eating the prison food because she didn't want it to mess up her figure as well, and as you know, the waist trainer and everything. So yes, that's what she's planning on.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me understand. This guy's joining me as a special guest.
00:22:22
Speaker 6: This is.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: Shrilla Mackenzie, Shrilla's girlfriend behind bars nearly a year. What modeling gigs did she think she was getting when she gets out.
00:22:34
Speaker 13: I guess someone had commented on her Instagram post and so they were interested in working with her, which was was showed in the documentary. But at the time I did not know that because I was still in prison and it hadn't dropped yet, but she had mentioned to me that she was getting one.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand. Did she really believe Kim Kardashian was going to come defend her?
00:22:57
Speaker 13: Yeah, she one hundred percent believed that Kim Kardashian's going to come and save her, and she was gonna overturn her, as she said, wrongly convicted.
00:23:06
Speaker 1: Case, wrongly convicted. Okay, here she is going on behind bars about Kim Kardashian.
00:23:13
Speaker 8: My mom is like, well, maybe Kim Kardashian scene, and I was.
00:23:16
Speaker 4: Like, oh, yeah, maybe Kim will now that it's like all of it.
00:23:19
Speaker 12: I was like, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will see it.
00:23:24
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:23:24
Speaker 12: You have to figure out because I'm real nervous and I want Kim Kardashian to be my lawyer.
00:23:29
Speaker 14: She's a lawyer.
00:23:30
Speaker 8: She gets innocent people out of jail.
00:23:35
Speaker 12: Kim work hard, she is miss Kimberly. We're gonna have her, get you out.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian, don't do it. Don't do it. Okay. Back to Cheyenne Topping. So she thinks she's going to be a model. She wears a contraption to help her figure. She walks the track all the time. Does she ever reach out to the victims' families to make amends or apologize for what happened.
00:24:07
Speaker 13: Not that I know of. When she was telling me and there when I was with her, she told me actually that they were all cool and that they were coming to court for her to defend her. So I was like, because that's one reason why I think, Okay, maybe this was an accident. When I was in there with her, because she told me the family was siding with her.
00:24:27
Speaker 1: Okay, how likely is that, Christine Russo, that you are going to try and help her get out of jail.
00:24:35
Speaker 7: There's not a chance in this lifetime, or next or the following. There's not even a slight chance that not one single person in our family or a distant relative would ever do such a thing.
00:24:48
Speaker 1: Yanne Topping, you mentioned that she's absolutely certain she's getting a modeling gig when she gets out right.
00:24:55
Speaker 13: Yeah, she truly believes that she is.
00:24:58
Speaker 1: Guys, she is extremely interested in the so called hot felon. Listen.
00:25:05
Speaker 12: I just know I have this feeling that something's gonna happen, like with all these people reaching out like it makes me feel like, Look, you remember that one guy who got arrested for murder and he became like a model, Like I watched a movie with him and you did. Yes, it's called the Secret Society.
00:25:23
Speaker 8: It's a good as he was arrested for murder, he probably didn't even do anything.
00:25:27
Speaker 1: Straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Derek Smith has tried a lot of cases and you can find him at d W Smith Legal dot com. Derek, Okay, so let's just pretend you get a new trial let's just pretend which is not gonna happen. Let's just pretend all of this is gonna come into evidence, all of these phone calls, because the law is the jury can consider what happened before, during, and after the event.
00:25:57
Speaker 15: Well, I mean, they're gonna try, I mean, as far as the prospect goes to get this in evidence. But unfortunately for them, she does have fantastic legal representation. Her case is in my home jurisdiction here in Cleveland. I've been following it closely since it happened. So they'll do their best to try to get all that stuff in. But I have a feeling that if that does, you know, get remanded for a new trial, that they're not going to be able to because it's overly prejudicial. A lot of speculation, a lot of back and forth with mom and things like that, and her outstanding legal defense will make sure that that does not get in.
00:26:26
Speaker 1: Put them up, Derek Smith. When you say it's a lot of speculation, it's not speculation as to whether it is her on the phone and the mom on the phone, So that is not a ground for suppression of these tapes. They are speculating about when Savannah Guthrie is going to come interview her for the Today Show. That's the only speculation going on around here. But wait a minute, hold on, listen to this, Derek, and you might as well start quickly coming up with something to say.
00:26:57
Speaker 12: Please don't forget to change my Instagram biotry again with that one Instagram account and change my name to that.
00:27:02
Speaker 8: Ain't Hayton.
00:27:04
Speaker 12: You're doing something wrong.
00:27:06
Speaker 8: You're doing something wrong, Kendy. That may that may look bad right now. Okay, I'll put free Kendy on there, but that's gonna look bad.
00:27:15
Speaker 12: Hashtag innocent there, just doing all the hashtags and delete my bio.
00:27:20
Speaker 10: Just do the hashtags in my bio, Derek.
00:27:23
Speaker 1: The mom is saying that might look a tiny bit bad right now. Really, yeah, it looks bad. It is prejudicial because everything she said is like a it's like a treasure trove of information for the prosecution to show her frame of mind.
00:27:42
Speaker 15: Oh no, absolutely, there's got to be a men's rea, you know, to make these charges stick. You know, the intent. But in her mind, she's innocent, Nancy. And this case is still on appeal, so you know, if this case does get remanded back, you got an innocent, got an innocent girl in jail that now gets another day in court. And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna be able to get some of these calls, any of these things admitted into evidence, because it really doesn't have to do with the underlying intent for the underlying offense that she was convicted of, you know, by a judge. In this case, it was tried to the bench. It was not to a jury.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I appreciate that. And somehow, Derek, you've managed to spin all that hay into gold yet again. Kat Crowder joining me right now, inmate who did time with Shirrilla, Kat, thank you for being with us. What was she like behind bars?
00:28:33
Speaker 14: McKenzie, Shirrilla was completely different than the girl that was portrayed in the documentary. She was very similar to these videos that we're seeing here, very much, you know, makeup done every single day, had her clothes altered to fit her tight, hair done, gems in her hair, very girly and attention seeking. Look at me, look at me, Look at me.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: Okay. I want you to listen to her making another demand to her mother, demanding she wants her iPad. That's the last thing that Jill wants is to hear somebody's mommy whining that their killer daughter doesn't have an iPad.
00:29:15
Speaker 12: Listen, I really want my iPad though here.
00:29:18
Speaker 8: They have any idea when they're going to bring it to you? Do you have any idea?
00:29:21
Speaker 12: I'm about to ask can you call and ask please? Please?
00:29:24
Speaker 8: Because that's because blessed than I called about your thing. They were like, if I do that and that's special treatment, she you know you'll get it way you get it.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Why has anybody on this panel ever heard of pig Latin? My name is auntcy Nay Race Gray. Okay, you a on the end of every word. Okay, These two spoke in code I E. Pig Latin.
00:29:55
Speaker 10: Listen hear we do the eating easier fuser?
00:30:02
Speaker 8: Oh god, oh my god?
00:30:05
Speaker 1: Is right?
00:30:05
Speaker 10: Yes, it's either we don't need to shed like she didn't even need it far readrate, which one we don't be easily get? Either mean them.
00:30:23
Speaker 8: Great expeak like that, you know, like we don't forget. Don't forget? You said, Can I say it out? Can I say it return? Just to make sure I can talk right, you're saying rape, you know, don't forget? That might not be what really happened. She's being accused of that. Eve either be the leading Peter right, because those people say that all the time to get other people in trouble. Will you see that's happening to you?
00:30:58
Speaker 1: What is old Cat Crowder joining me in May? Who did time with Shririlla? What is she doing?
00:31:09
Speaker 14: I mean, I have absolutely no idea. You know, there's been a lot of speculation about what that language is, from Gypsy to pig Latin, all these things. I think it's just mind blowing how fast and quickly they understand what each other are saying, because I can't even begin to dissect that. When I was incarcerated with her, I personally never heard her speak in that language.
00:31:36
Speaker 8: Black girl like crazy.
00:31:37
Speaker 12: Ooh, remember, don't drive because that's murder if you drive with that.
00:31:42
Speaker 8: I mean, for real, right, that's so wrong?
00:31:44
Speaker 12: And do you put that on your license?
00:31:48
Speaker 8: I should really update my We have one minute left. There's people with epilepsy.
00:31:57
Speaker 14: Good.
00:31:58
Speaker 8: You do not have to put that on your license that you have epilepsy like litteral epilepsy.
00:32:03
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand what I'm hearing. Joel Waldman is joining US co hostar Surviving the survivor. She's now trying to claim that she blacked out and that's what happened. Then how did she keep her foot on the gas?
00:32:20
Speaker 5: Yeah?
00:32:20
Speaker 4: I mean this family. The more I'm listening to all these clips you're playing, Nancy, and I've heard bits and pieces of a lot of them, they're simply pathological. You know, I'll give you a diagnosis. And I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a psychologist, but my dad may rest in peace with a psychiatrist. He'd call her a spoiled brat. And it's just to a level that I have never ever seen before. You know, after the fact, they're now claiming she had this respiratory illness, pots that she had had these blackouts. But look this went and Nancy, this is your wheelhouse. This went to a trial. They chose a bench trial, meaning a judge and not a jury of her peers, and she was convicted on twelve pounds. I had someone on my show tweet at me saying, oh, you're only showing one side of the story. I don't see a second side of this story. Here would I interview the Shirrillas. Yeah, but I think they raised a bad seed. I don't know if it was you know, nature or nurture, but there is something massively wrong with this family all around.
00:33:25
Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of the conversations we've gotten on tape.
00:33:29
Speaker 8: People are very into like people that are in jail, especially a few people that they think we're cute. Would just be careful and I'm cute a and.
00:33:35
Speaker 12: I'm not looking for any relationships.
00:33:39
Speaker 16: Got some really orange.
00:33:41
Speaker 12: I'm like the prettiest person here, Like I feel that I even saying that, But I.
00:33:45
Speaker 8: Wonder if you like it's community shower on the other levels too.
00:33:49
Speaker 16: Oh no, I don't care, like I'm scared.
00:33:54
Speaker 8: Scared to shower, right yeah, yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Kat Crowder joining us inmate who did time with Mackenzie Shirilla, I'm like the prettiest one here. I'm afraid to get in a shower. Really was everybody that focused on her, you.
00:34:12
Speaker 14: Know, in the grand retrospect, everybody that we were in curs here with. When you get into general population or if you've been there, you knew what she was in there for. It is a high profile case and prison is a gossip mill, so you did find out quickly. And I do think that she thrived off of the fact that everyone knew that this is Mackenzie Shrilla. Now where the inmates phased by her?
00:34:37
Speaker 1: No?
00:34:38
Speaker 14: I mean there's hundreds of people. We've got the microwave mom. We got all the people in there that are there for high profile cases that have been on the news, that you know are there, but they don't necessarily carry themselves in the same way that Mackenzie did. It was almost as if she wanted to be a socialite of prison, which is just wild.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: Is this your recollection of her that it's all about her even behind bars? Forget the victims, It's about her getting on the Today Show, It's about her Instagram account, It's about her being the quote cutest one behind bars? Was that your experience with her?
00:35:16
Speaker 9: Cat Crowder, I'm one hundred percent, you know.
00:35:22
Speaker 14: While I was in there and I kind of proclaimed myself as a very girly girl, I could never get the energy to wake up at six o'clock in the morning and put on a full face of makeup and do my hair, because one, I'm sitting in prison. In two, who am I trying to look good for? These This is not a club or a school dance or something of the sorts, so it gave off, you know, like I want this attention. I think I'm holier than now. I'm the Mackenzie shrilla. And she walked the yard every single day all day long. She went to the gym, she went line dancing, that she went to all the classes, and it was almost as if she was treating it like a popularity contest.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: You know, that personality it's all about me, is not going to help anything at a retrial. There is no way this woman could ever get on the stand Derek Smith.
00:36:23
Speaker 15: Oh no, she again. As you know, she has a right not to take the stand, and she didn't the first time. So I don't anticipate if this does get remanded for another one, for anything to change in that regard. But it is her constitutional right if she wants to get up there and speak her mind, speak her peace about you know, what she thinks were the events leading up to this tragic event. She has every right to do that. But I'm pretty sure her excellent legal team we'll talk some sense in her about that.
00:36:47
Speaker 1: I love what you just said, Derek Smith. She can get on the stand and say what she thinks happen in her own mind, which is not what happened at all. Okay, hold on, when we wonder why someone behaves this way where everything is about them, have you ever heard the phrase the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
00:37:10
Speaker 16: I hope I'm gonna comes back and place everybody that's against you and so hard that they all disappear. That's all I said. And if I had a magic wand if I had a magic wand I wouldn't go back and help Beatian first, I'd make everybody else together, I cut my fingers and everybody would disappear. That's that's what I would doings That's how that's how angry I am. They they screwed you so bad.
00:37:34
Speaker 1: Doctor ryl Eric joining us. They're feeding the monster. Newbody has ever said what you did was wrong. You're going to jail for this, and when you get out, hopefully you can start over. Well, they're feeding her this line that it's she's the one that's the victim.
00:37:58
Speaker 9: You are so right, and right now my heart is breaking for Christine listening to this right now. They are feeding the monster. This is an extraordinarily abusive person. This was a violent person. And you know what, a lot of the time, most of the time. This is easier to see when it's the guy who is the abuser and he is controlling and threatening to break things and threatening to violence and all of this if the girl leaves. You have seen a million cases where it's if I can't have you, no one can. This family is completely wrapped up in themselves, but it's like nobody else matters that.
00:38:39
Speaker 1: Yes, that is also.
00:38:40
Speaker 9: Narcissism, but this is violence, power and control, intimate partner violence. But the abuser was her, and when she was threatened with being rejected and him leaving, which as we know, is the most dangerous time in a domestic violence relationship, that's when the partner is trying to leave is most likely to be killed. I gotta double down, Nancy. This is that kind of situation where she acted out in a way. Maybe she intended also to go with them, but she pulled out all the stops literally, and there's some evidence that the boys may have tried to pull the car out of gear and do something to stop this. But this was an absolutely horrific acting outrage. And now that the family is trying to make it seem like she's the victim, maybe they can parlay this into some kind of fame, and it's it's it's appalling.
00:39:42
Speaker 1: To Christine Russo, Dominic's sister star off the Big Sister Unhinged podcast, creating and curating her brother's legacy. I'd like to hear your response to everything we've just said guests tonight.
00:40:02
Speaker 7: Honestly, I'm really I'm happy that you guys in the world are seeing through her and that I don't have to sit here and my family doesn't have to sit here and suffer ourselves like we have been for four years. Because this the movie just came out. We've been dealing with this for quite some time now. Since the second she was arrested. If you know, it was immediate, immediate, just denial, no remorse, no accountability, victim shaming, blaming you know, my parents, these shrillas have not stopped. Uh, They've been doing interviews this week where they're still blaming my brother for his death or blaming my parents. So I'm actually kind of I'm glad to see that the world sees through her and who she truly is. I really hope with what you know this coming out. I've tried to make something anything positive out of this tragedy by doing the domind Davion's Law or the foundation that I started for him, just trying to make something anything positive to turn this into. But I'm glad that the world sees her now for who she is.
00:41:14
Speaker 1: So Christine, I'm glad you brought up dom and Davian's law because many states have son of Sam law, not all of them, which precludes you from profiting off of your crime. Not all states have that. I don't even know if it's half the country, but social media has far outpaced what Son of Sam laws protect what they do, and the law must be updated to address social media fame or that type of enrichment. What is dom and Davian's law.
00:41:54
Speaker 7: It's just the modernization of the Son of Sam. So, like you said, it was written. I think they came up with that in the seventy where just cover journals, movies, and like news deals. Now with the digital era, you have social media Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, there's go fund me set out. She's been getting thousands of dollars in donations. By the way, they've set up different accounts. This will help protect different loopholes so that victims don't have to watch somebody who killed their loved ones, get attention, fame fortune. Basically, I'm trying to prevent her from becoming gypsy ros. The next gypsy rows and it is a it's just a modernization of that and to stop her or her family from finding loopholes and having her benefit off of my brothers and Davion's death.
00:42:47
Speaker 1: Dom and Davian's Law. Every state could benefit from that. We remember American hero Corporal Very Fast, Arlington County, p Date, Virginia. He passed way from cancer after nine eleven. He endured September eleven after thirty seven years on the force. He loves behind his wife Karen and his daughter Natalie. American hero Corporal Barry Faust. Thank you to our guest, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend,
