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A critically acclaimed author and the master of horror, Stephen King, once said, We never know which lives we influence, or when, or why.
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Excellent statement.
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Good question.
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Well, let me explain a thing or two about influencing.
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It's not what you think it is.
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You are not truly going to actually influence someone.
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You are not always gonna change their life.
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Sometimes you will, and in other instances it's gonna backfire and change your life, and not for the better, I might add.
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Because the reality is this the world of social media, the world of internet exposure can be toxic, it can be poison, it can be an essence of death.
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Like a cesspool.
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Today, on this episode of Chairbox, we are going to be talking about not just influencing, but influencers in general.
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The new craze, the latest form of entertainment that has consumed the internet, that is the top dog on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you name it.
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So you want to be influenced by me?
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Well, I'm no influencer, but hopefully I can give you a bit of uh psychological and maybe therapeutic uh intel on what influencing really is and how it's impacting society, how it's changed entertainment.
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So you know what?
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Let's get started.
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Hey folks, how y'all doing?
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I'm Al Tesssier.
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Welcome to another episode of Shatterbox.
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Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar.
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Nancy, great to have you on the show.
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Thank you so much.
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I love your description.
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The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change to flip the script, as they say.
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Just remember what Michelle Yo said when she won an Academy Award.
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Nobody is ever uh out of their prime.
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I believe that's her that was her words.
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No shame.
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Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come.
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Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck.
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I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name.
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Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.
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Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.
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Leslie Nielsen.
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Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.
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Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years, and I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about mad men, Matthew Weiner.
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How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit?
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So um, it's never too late.
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My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI, I am just getting started.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, no, trust me.
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And that's that's another thing.
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Definitely a story for another day.
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Because, like, if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck.
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Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie, and whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.
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Oh, absolutely.
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As a woman, you know, who's lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977, I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes.
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Um, I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life.
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Um, because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and um the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world.
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I'm gonna make change.
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And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is?
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Like it pains me.
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And I know we're gonna be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies.
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Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women?
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Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths.
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I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm gonna take off my clothes and go live in the bob house.
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Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too because you they get like they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth, or and they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper, I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path.
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Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?
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I mean, not to be judgmental, you know, as I say you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular.
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And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes?
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To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school?
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And they're like, No, why would why would I do that?
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And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina.
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Can I say vagina on your podcast?
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I I have zero no filter whatsoever.
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Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.
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So okay then.
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Yeah, no, I have no filter.
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Uh, you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeffin don't like swear.
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So no, I'm not a good to it, it's potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York.
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I have no filter.
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A a well-placed F-bomb never hurts.
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Yes, yeah, yeah.
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And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake.
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Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that.
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Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier.
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I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society?
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How are you contributing?
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Yeah, and here are some fun facts.
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75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year.
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That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%.
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You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues.
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So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl.
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That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs.
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There is no question about it.
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You will get a lot of awareness and exposure.
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But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product?
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So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game.
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Because likes are not in and of themselves currency.
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They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that.
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And I rebranded this year, um I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF, and NancyAF.com.
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And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them.
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It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media.
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So there's an end game.
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It's not just about being popular.
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And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid.
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I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny.
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And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old.
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Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids.
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I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school.
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We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.
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Yeah.
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Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21.
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And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret.
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One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree.
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Yeah, no, I I get it.
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I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging.
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And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective.
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Yeah.
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The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything, you're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it.
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And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount.
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Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego.
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They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is.
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I'm like, it's an ego fest.
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You're getting high off of your own narcissism.
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Yeah, best seller on Amazon.
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Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm?
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Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online.
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I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful.
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I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance.
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And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money?
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Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl, and then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product, and I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it.
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Will that change over the next five, 10 years?
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Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all-state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out.
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And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money.
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Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but they're agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote.
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Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product.
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You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel.
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That to me is not selling out.
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But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky.
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Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it?
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Uh I don't I don't know.
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I don't know.
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I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that.
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But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it.
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He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on.
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They're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money.
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Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.
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A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds.
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And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials.
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So um I think it's a genius idea.
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It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok person who's got a million followers and doesn't care.
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In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards.
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And people are like, oh, she's just being real and genuine.
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I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand.
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Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup.
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I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it.
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But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar.
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And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air.
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You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now?
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Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer.
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And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation and stuff like that.
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Now she's an OnlyFans stripper.
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Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster.
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Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old.
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Like I remember people who were very hot in the day.
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You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU.
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Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that?
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Because you look so familiar.
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But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality.
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The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless.
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I mean, looking started born, like this is the fourth time they've made it.
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Yeah.
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Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas.
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They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made.
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I'm like three times.
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This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake.
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I believe she was before that.
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There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize.
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But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy.
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Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies.
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Um The Angels.
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It's a wonderful life.
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That's my favorite Christmas movie.
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I cry at the end of it every time I watch it.
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And I've watched it so many times.
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So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story.
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And as a movie, it flopped.
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Same with Wizard of Oz.
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Was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out.
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So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day.
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Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?
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Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now.
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They you want it to be immortal or or like eat yeah, or just endless.
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Some people don't.
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Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop house girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives.
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And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I definitely agree with you.
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Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.
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And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them.
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Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country where all that's really left.
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Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege.
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They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad.
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Yeah, they're giving us.
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I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother.
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Yeah.
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And as somebody who is truly age blind and doesn't like categorizing categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:38.000
And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erendlip up on the refrigerator.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.599
I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.599
You know, they're my two year old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920
They limit their kids' screen time.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:59.680
So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the res, dare I say, responsibility to create a next generation of doers.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:01.440
And thinkers.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:06.319
So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.559
It's not something you're born with.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:28.960
And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents would go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:37.759
Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.319
That is where the toxicity really lies.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.799
Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, what is this?
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.480
Oh my God, I'm so intrigued.
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:55.039
And they just, I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.640
He does it because he still likes movie making.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.039
He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.720
And he's absolutely right.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:02.319
Yeah.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:17.839
But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.759
I am proof positive that that is not the case.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.960
So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026.
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:32.400
And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.279
It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.200
You like movies, I like movies.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.680
You like horror movies, I like horror movies.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:56.079
You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational.
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:13.200
And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:19.359
Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:28.799
So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals.
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.720
So yeah, I agree.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:44.079
And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in.
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:54.960
Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch?
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.119
And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube.
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:04.880
Like it, and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:22.720
Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.920
If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:38.000
Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially from actually.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.720
Putting down the small screen.
00:25:49.039 --> 00:26:04.720
I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big, well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.359
But I think that everybody has an obligation.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.319
I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:30.880
But I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F-bomb, put down the fucking foam and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.240
Yeah.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:44.079
I've come learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know, like through work and stuff.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:57.920
I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:07.200
Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.960
That's what influences them, is social media in general.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:24.559
They're not it kind of and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.720
Yeah, and it didn't start out that way.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:33.039
I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.400
And back then, it was exactly what you're saying.
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:43.680
It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:48.720
It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.599
So I never knew it at the beginning.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.319
That was all it really was to me.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:10.160
And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:18.799
And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:30.160
And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.920
I was a director and a prop master and a writer.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:41.440
Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:55.920
But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.119
But then when I say to them, well, who are your fans?
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:05.119
they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality.
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:12.799
So I will sometimes call myself a coinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.960
Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star.
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.960
I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:30.319
Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies.
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.200
Like, as you said, like who are your followers?
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:34.400
Well, I don't really know.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:49.519
They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:58.960
And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:05.279
And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with, I think, like people like Leo DiCaprio.
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.480
He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.920
Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled.
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:30.640
Um, I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:37.680
They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359
But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:55.119
Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.480
There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:06.799
And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:14.880
And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.519
Where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall?
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:33.519
Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouth, has a is a bigger dick swinger.
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.000
Like this doesn't belong on my page.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.799
I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:44.240
And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:55.759
If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:01.279
Yeah, I mean, I I I guess I might have learned the hard way.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.400
Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:11.519
Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash.
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:20.720
I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back.
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:30.559
That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MA breeding ground, uh kind of just shit fest.
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.599
That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.200
You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up.
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:52.480
I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:00.640
And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.000
And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:11.920
And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.799
And my podcast producer was livid.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.599
He's like, Why did you remove that post?
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:27.920
And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face.
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.680
Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.759
You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.240
We're not talking about our faces.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.680
Like, have we have we completely lost our minds?
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.160
So, um, yeah, great topic.
00:33:44.319 --> 00:34:02.720
I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be?
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:09.199
If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks?
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:16.880
Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.239
I would choose the latter over the former any day.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:21.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.880
Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.039
I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:48.639
I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers.
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.039
Yeah, and everybody who's really there's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.159
It's called A Good Person.
00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:01.679
I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it.
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:07.280
It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone, she's like, You don't like it?
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.360
She's who did the who made you do this?
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.960
She's like an influencer.
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:12.400
She influenced me.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:33.599
And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.079
But it is totally pervasive.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:52.960
And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product that's blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me.
00:35:53.599 --> 00:36:03.440
Um but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.800
It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:27.519
And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio going all the way up to The Apprentice, and it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:28.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:37.840
It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air.
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:51.920
It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it stuck there.
00:36:52.079 --> 00:37:00.639
And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:10.079
Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting.
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:37.519
I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet.
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.639
So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world.
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.559
And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona.
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:54.320
I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:54.960
Yeah.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:01.440
Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.960
I'm not Gene Kelly.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.360
Shoot your next movie here in Arizona.
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.800
It's lovely and uh possibly.
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.239
Uh what is it?
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:20.000
One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.440
He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great.
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.880
Uh so makes a that's one thing.
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.000
Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry.
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:36.480
Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.679
We have to work hard to get where we want to be.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.320
And a lot of it does depend on luck.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:39:02.880
When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way.
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:12.000
You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Bolin said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies.
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:22.320
I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:29.599
But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:30.880
Love that, love that.
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:35.360
That is a great, great closing, closing concept.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:35.920
Love that.
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:37.760
Yes, yeah.
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:38.960
Yes.
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:47.199
And uh, for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show.
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:58.400
You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from.
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:04.079
Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:08.639
Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.679
And also, like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more.
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:15.440
Look at things from a whole new angle.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.199
And you could also find me at nancyaf.com.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:26.639
That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore.
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.679
And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.719
And as I said, we all have a day job.
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:43.360
My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems.
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:47.920
Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years.
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:52.400
Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.440
And my tagline is Bright and Timeless Marketing, and I am truly timeless.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.760
And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media.
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:12.000
What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space, and that will all shake out in the end.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.320
Yes, I totally agree.
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.119
Well, folks, till next time, stay high in life.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:19.920
Out.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.440
Hey folks, how y'all doing?
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:24.400
I'm El Tessier.
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.239
Welcome to another episode of Shadow Box.
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:39.280
Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker, and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar.
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:40.800
Nancy, great to have you on the show.
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.760
Thank you so much.
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.880
I love your description.
00:41:43.039 --> 00:42:10.559
The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change, to flip the script, as they say.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.960
Just remember what Michelle Yeo said when she won an Academy Award.
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.599
Nobody is ever uh out of their prime.
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.360
I believe that's her that was her words.
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.239
No shame.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:26.159
Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.199
Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:38.880
I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name.
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.360
Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.280
Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.320
Leslie Nielsen.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:55.519
Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.840
Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years.
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:09.599
And I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about Mad Men, Matthew Weiner.
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.920
How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit?
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.960
So um, it's never too late.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:27.440
My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:29.440
I am just getting started.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:30.800
Yeah.
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:32.559
Yeah, no, trust me.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.480
And that's that's another thing, definitely a story for another day.
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:42.960
Cause like if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:48.880
Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie.
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:57.280
And whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:58.320
Oh, absolutely.
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:05.360
It's a woman, you know, who's Lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977.
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.880
I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes.
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:17.199
I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life.
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:30.159
Because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.679
I'm going to make change.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.840
And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is?
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.119
Like it pains me.
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:50.880
And I know we're going to be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.639
Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:58.800
Like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women?
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.400
Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths.
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:09.440
I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm going to take off my clothes and go live in the Bob House.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.639
Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too.
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:24.960
Because they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth.
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:39.199
And they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper.
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:43.840
I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.360
Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:50.559
I mean, not to be judgmental, you know.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:46:03.519
As I say, you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular.
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:13.840
And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes?
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:19.119
To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school?
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.920
And they're like, No, why would why would I do that?
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:32.880
And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean, doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:34.960
Can I say vagina on your podcast?
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.679
I I have zero no filter whatsoever.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.119
Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.880
So okay then.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.280
Yeah, no, I have no filter.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:57.360
Uh you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeff and don't like swear.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.920
So no, I'm not a gratuitous potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.280
I have no filter.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.400
A well-placed F-bomb never hurts.
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:07.679
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:21.119
And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:40.239
Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:47.920
Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:56.400
I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society?
00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.480
How are you contributing?
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.960
Yeah, and here are some fun facts.
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:14.239
75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:20.559
That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%.
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:31.920
You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues.
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:38.480
So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.840
That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.360
There is no question about it.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.760
You will get a lot of awareness and exposure.
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:54.159
But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product?
00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:02.159
So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game.
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.960
Because likes are not in and of themselves currency.
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:13.119
They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that.
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:22.239
And I rebranded this year, um, I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF and NancyAF.com.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.719
And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them.
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:52.079
It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.159
So there's an end game.
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.880
It's not just about being popular.
00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:01.599
And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:07.519
I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.239
And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old.
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:20.159
Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids.
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:24.320
I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school.
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:36.400
We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:37.440
Yeah.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:44.159
Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:53.360
And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret.
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:59.760
One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree.
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:01.440
Yeah, no, I I get it.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:20.320
I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging.
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:43.440
And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective.
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:44.320
Yeah.
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:55.039
The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in, like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.440
You're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it.
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.880
And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount.
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:07.599
Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego.
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:15.199
They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.400
I'm like, it's an ego fest.
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.719
You're getting high off of your own narcissism.
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.039
Yeah, best seller on Amazon.
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:29.440
Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm?
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:43.440
Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online.
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:55.360
I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful.
00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:10.159
I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance.
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:15.039
And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money?
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.639
Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.760
And then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product.
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:30.239
And I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it.
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.360
Will that change over the next five, 10 years?
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:44.960
Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out.
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:51.280
And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money.
00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:00.480
Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but their agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote.
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.559
Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product.
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.079
You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:10.400
That to me is not selling out.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:17.119
But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky.
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.239
Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it?
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:21.840
Uh I don't I don't know.
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:22.719
I don't know.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:27.280
I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that.
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.920
But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it.
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:37.679
He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on and they're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money.
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:46.800
Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.880
A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds.
00:54:53.039 --> 00:55:07.280
And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.920
So um I think it's a genius idea.
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:19.119
It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok in person who's got a million followers and doesn't care.
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:27.599
In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards.
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.639
And people were like, oh, she's just being real and genuine.
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:37.519
I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand.
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:40.559
Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup.
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:50.079
I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it.
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:57.599
But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:01.920
And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air.
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:09.360
You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now?
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:19.440
Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:28.400
And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:29.280
Yeah.
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:30.320
Yeah.
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:42.880
And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation, stuff like that.
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.039
Now she's an OnlyFans stripper.
00:56:45.519 --> 00:57:01.519
Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster.
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:07.280
Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old.
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.800
Like I remember people who were very hot in the day.
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:15.519
You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU.
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:24.400
Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that?
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:26.079
Because you look so familiar.
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:31.360
But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality.
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:37.360
The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless.
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.880
I mean, look at started porn, like this is the fourth time they've made it.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:43.679
Yeah.
00:57:44.000 --> 00:58:01.519
Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas.
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:08.400
They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.760
I'm like three times.
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.960
This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake.
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.400
I believe she was before that.
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:20.559
There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize.
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:38.559
But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy.
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:44.480
Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies.
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:48.400
Um The Angel Life.
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.360
That's my favorite Christmas movie.
00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.840
I cry at the end of it every time I watch it.
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:55.280
And I've watched it so many times.
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:03.199
So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story.
00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.280
And as a movie, it flopped.
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.880
Same with Wizard of Oz.
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.639
It was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out.
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:29.039
So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day.
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:35.840
Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:40.320
Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now.
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:46.639
They you want it to be immortal or or like eat, yeah, or just endless.
00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:47.920
Some people don't.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:57.440
Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop House Girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives.
00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:04.079
And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:05.119
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:06.480
I definitely agree with you.
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:15.360
Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.559
And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them.
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:32.159
Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country.
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:33.760
We're all that's really left.
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:44.400
Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege.
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:54.320
They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad.
01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:00.719
Yeah, and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother.
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:01.039
Yeah.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:08.239
And as somebody who is truly age-blind and doesn't like categorizing, categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, yeah.
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:12.239
I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting.
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:25.119
And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erend Lit up on the refrigerator.
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.800
I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives.
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:34.800
You know, they're my two-year-old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one.
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.119
They limit their kids' screen time.
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:48.559
So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the dare I say responsibility to create a next generation of doers and thinkers.
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.519
So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created.
01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.679
It's not something you're born with.
01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:16.159
And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents to go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it.
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:27.440
That is where the toxicity really lies.
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.920
Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, What is this?
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.599
Oh my god, I'm so intrigued.
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:42.159
And they just I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft.
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:43.840
He does it because he still likes movie making.
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:47.920
He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous, and he's absolutely right.
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.519
Yeah.
01:02:49.760 --> 01:03:05.039
But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf.
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:08.960
I am proof positive that that is not the case.
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:14.159
So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026.
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:19.599
And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities.
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:24.480
It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors.
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.400
You like movies, I like movies.
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:28.880
You like horror movies, I like horror movies.
01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:43.280
You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational.
01:03:43.679 --> 01:04:00.400
And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots.
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:06.480
Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things.
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:15.920
So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals.
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:17.920
So I agree.
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:31.199
And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in.
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:42.079
Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch?
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.320
And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube.
01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:52.000
Like it and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction.
01:04:52.159 --> 01:05:09.920
Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know.
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.119
If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff.
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:25.199
Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially for next year.
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:35.920
You know, and that's something that I've been working really, really hard on is putting down the device, putting down the small screen.
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:51.840
I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure.
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:54.559
But I think that everybody has an obligation.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:59.280
I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:11.039
I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F bomb.
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:18.000
Put down the fucking phone and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:19.360
Yeah.
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:31.280
I've come to learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know like through work and stuff.
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:45.119
I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be.
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:54.320
Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from.
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.079
That's what influences them is social media in general.
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:11.760
They're not it kind, and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.920
Yeah, and it didn't start out that way.
01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:20.239
I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults.
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.519
And back then, it was exactly what you're saying.
01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:30.800
It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn.
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:35.920
It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections.
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:38.800
So I never knew it at the beginning.
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:41.519
That was all it really was to me.
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:57.360
And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star.
01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:06.000
And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition.
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:17.359
And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth.
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.039
I was a director and a prop master and a writer.
01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:28.640
Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences.
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:43.119
But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers.
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.239
But then when I say to them, Well, who are your fans?
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:52.239
they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality.
01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:59.760
So I will sometimes call myself a quinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:04.079
Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star.
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:10.079
I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember.
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:17.439
Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies.
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.319
Like, as you said, like who are your followers?
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:21.600
Well, I don't really know.
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:36.720
They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber.
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:46.079
And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there.
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:52.399
And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with I think like people like Leo DiCaprio.
01:09:52.640 --> 01:09:55.680
He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.
01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:59.039
Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it.
01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:07.359
Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled.
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:17.760
Um I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting.
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:24.880
They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going.
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:32.560
But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive.
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:42.239
Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate.
01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:47.680
There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling.
01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:54.000
And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall.
01:10:54.159 --> 01:11:08.720
And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together, where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall?
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:20.560
Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a, again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouthed, has a is a bigger dick swinger.
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:23.119
Like this doesn't belong on my page.
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.000
I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate.
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:31.439
And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views.
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:42.960
If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:48.399
Yeah, I mean I I I guess I might have learned the hard way.
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:51.600
Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media.
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:58.720
Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash.
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:07.920
I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back.
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:17.680
That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MAG breeding ground uh kind of just shit fest.
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:20.800
That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.399
You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up.
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:39.600
I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup.
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:47.840
And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing.
01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:53.199
And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney.
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:59.119
And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives.
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:01.920
And my podcast producer was livid.
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.720
He's like, Why did you remove that post?
01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:14.960
And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face.
01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.800
Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now.
01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:22.960
You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic.
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.439
We're not talking about our faces.
01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.880
Like, yeah, have we have we completely lost our minds?
01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:31.359
So, um, yeah, great topic.
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:49.840
I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be?
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:56.399
If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks?
01:13:56.720 --> 01:14:04.000
Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life.
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.439
I would choose the latter over the former any day.
01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:08.560
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:16.079
Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast.
01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:20.239
I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that.
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:35.840
I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers.
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:42.079
Yeah, and everybody who really's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply.
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:43.439
It's called A Good Person.
01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:48.880
I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it.
01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:52.800
It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone.
01:14:52.960 --> 01:14:54.479
She's like, you don't like it?
01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.479
She's who did that, who made you do this?
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:58.159
She's like an influencer.
01:14:58.319 --> 01:14:59.520
She influenced me.
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:20.720
And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:23.199
But it is totally pervasive.
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:40.079
And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product was blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me.
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:50.640
Um, but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to.
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:56.000
It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV.
01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:02.720
And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio, going all the way up to The Apprentice.
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:14.720
And it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.
01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:15.840
Yeah, yeah.
01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:24.960
It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air.
01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:39.119
It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it's stuck there.
01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:47.920
And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.
01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:57.279
Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting.
01:16:57.520 --> 01:17:24.640
I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet.
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:29.840
So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world.
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:35.680
And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona.
01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:41.439
I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology.
01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:42.079
Yeah.
01:17:42.319 --> 01:17:48.640
Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain.
01:17:48.720 --> 01:17:50.079
I'm not Gene Kelly.
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:52.479
Shoot your next movie here in Arizona.
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:56.079
It's lovely and uh possibly.
01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:57.359
Uh what is it?
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:07.199
One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it.
01:18:07.359 --> 01:18:10.560
He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great.
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:14.079
Uh so makes a that's one thing.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.199
Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry.
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:23.680
Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry.
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:26.800
We have to work hard to get where we want to be.
01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:29.439
And a lot of it does depend on luck.
01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:50.079
When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way.
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:59.119
You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Rowland said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies.
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:09.520
I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial.
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:16.800
But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.
01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:18.000
Love that, love that.
01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:22.560
That is a great, great closing, closing concept.
01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:23.119
Love that.
01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:24.960
Yes, yeah.
01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:26.159
Yes.
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:34.319
And uh for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show.
01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:45.600
You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from.
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:51.039
Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind.
01:19:51.359 --> 01:20:00.880
Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons and also like like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more.
01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:02.560
Look at things from a whole new angle.
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:06.319
And you could also find me at nancyaf.com.
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:13.840
That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore.
01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:18.800
And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content.
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.840
And as I said, we all have a day job.
01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:30.560
My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems.
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.119
Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years.
01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:39.520
Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time.
01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.640
And my tagline is bright and timeless marketing, and I am truly timeless.
01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:48.960
And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media.
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:56.399
What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space.
01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:59.119
And that will all shake out in the end.
01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:01.520
Yes, I totally agree.
01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:06.319
Well, folks, until next time, stay high in life.
01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:07.279
Out.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:08.880
A critically acclaimed author and the master of horror, Stephen King, once said, We never know which lives we influence, or when, or why.
00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:10.560
Excellent statement.
00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:11.759
Good question.
00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.599
Well, let me explain a thing or two about influencing.
00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:18.399
It's not what you think it is.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.239
You are not truly going to actually influence someone.
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.280
You are not always gonna change their life.
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:32.479
Sometimes you will, and in other instances it's gonna backfire and change your life, and not for the better, I might add.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:45.520
Because the reality is this the world of social media, the world of internet exposure can be toxic, it can be poison, it can be an essence of death.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:47.359
Like a cesspool.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:56.399
Today, on this episode of Chairbox, we are going to be talking about not just influencing, but influencers in general.
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:06.319
The new craze, the latest form of entertainment that has consumed the internet, that is the top dog on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you name it.
00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:09.680
So you want to be influenced by me?
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:23.120
Well, I'm no influencer, but hopefully I can give you a bit of uh psychological and maybe therapeutic uh intel on what influencing really is and how it's impacting society, how it's changed entertainment.
00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:25.359
So you know what?
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:26.719
Let's get started.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:36.319
Hey folks, how y'all doing?
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:37.359
I'm Al Tesssier.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.040
Welcome to another episode of Shatterbox.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:52.159
Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar.
00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:53.599
Nancy, great to have you on the show.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:54.560
Thank you so much.
00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:55.680
I love your description.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:23.439
The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change to flip the script, as they say.
00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.759
Just remember what Michelle Yo said when she won an Academy Award.
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.479
Nobody is ever uh out of their prime.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.159
I believe that's her that was her words.
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:32.879
No shame.
00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:39.039
Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come.
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.080
Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck.
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:51.759
I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:56.240
Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.
00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:58.159
Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.
00:02:58.479 --> 00:02:59.120
Leslie Nielsen.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:08.400
Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.
00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:22.400
Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years, and I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about mad men, Matthew Weiner.
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.879
How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit?
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.759
So um, it's never too late.
00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:42.240
My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI, I am just getting started.
00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:43.680
Yeah.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.439
Yeah, no, trust me.
00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:47.120
And that's that's another thing.
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.280
Definitely a story for another day.
00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:55.759
Because, like, if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck.
00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:10.080
Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie, and whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.
00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:11.199
Oh, absolutely.
00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:21.680
As a woman, you know, who's lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977, I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes.
00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:30.079
Um, I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life.
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:42.959
Um, because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and um the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world.
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:44.560
I'm gonna make change.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.639
And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is?
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:49.920
Like it pains me.
00:04:50.000 --> 00:05:03.759
And I know we're gonna be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies.
00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:11.600
Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women?
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.199
Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths.
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:22.240
I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm gonna take off my clothes and go live in the bob house.
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:56.720
Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too because you they get like they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth, or and they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper, I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path.
00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.240
Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:16.319
I mean, not to be judgmental, you know, as I say you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular.
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:26.720
And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes?
00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.920
To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school?
00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.720
And they're like, No, why would why would I do that?
00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:45.680
And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina.
00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:47.759
Can I say vagina on your podcast?
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.480
I I have zero no filter whatsoever.
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:55.920
Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.
00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.759
So okay then.
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.079
Yeah, no, I have no filter.
00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:10.160
Uh, you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeffin don't like swear.
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.800
So no, I'm not a good to it, it's potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York.
00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.079
I have no filter.
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.199
A a well-placed F-bomb never hurts.
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:20.560
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:34.000
And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake.
00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:53.040
Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that.
00:07:53.199 --> 00:08:00.800
Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier.
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:09.279
I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society?
00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.279
How are you contributing?
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:13.759
Yeah, and here are some fun facts.
00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:27.120
75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year.
00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:33.360
That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%.
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:44.720
You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:51.279
So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.639
That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs.
00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.159
There is no question about it.
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.639
You will get a lot of awareness and exposure.
00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:06.960
But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product?
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:15.039
So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.759
Because likes are not in and of themselves currency.
00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:25.919
They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that.
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:35.039
And I rebranded this year, um I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF, and NancyAF.com.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:41.519
And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them.
00:09:41.759 --> 00:10:04.960
It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media.
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:06.960
So there's an end game.
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.759
It's not just about being popular.
00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:14.480
And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:20.320
I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny.
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:27.120
And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:32.960
Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids.
00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.120
I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school.
00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:49.279
We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.
00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:50.240
Yeah.
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.960
Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21.
00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:06.080
And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:12.639
One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree.
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.320
Yeah, no, I I get it.
00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:33.200
I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging.
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:56.320
And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:57.120
Yeah.
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:12.240
The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything, you're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it.
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.759
And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount.
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.399
Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:28.000
They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is.
00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.200
I'm like, it's an ego fest.
00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.519
You're getting high off of your own narcissism.
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:35.840
Yeah, best seller on Amazon.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:42.240
Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm?
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:56.240
Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online.
00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:08.159
I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful.
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:22.960
I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.840
And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money?
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:43.039
Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl, and then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product, and I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it.
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.159
Will that change over the next five, 10 years?
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:57.840
Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all-state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out.
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:04.159
And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money.
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:13.360
Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but they're agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.440
Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product.
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.960
You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.279
That to me is not selling out.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:29.919
But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky.
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.039
Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it?
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.720
Uh I don't I don't know.
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:35.519
I don't know.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.080
I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:44.720
But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it.
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:46.960
He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on.
00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:50.559
They're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money.
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:59.679
Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.759
A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds.
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:20.080
And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials.
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.799
So um I think it's a genius idea.
00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:32.000
It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok person who's got a million followers and doesn't care.
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:40.399
In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards.
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.440
And people are like, oh, she's just being real and genuine.
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:50.399
I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.440
Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup.
00:15:53.600 --> 00:16:02.960
I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it.
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:10.399
But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar.
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.720
And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:22.240
You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now?
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:32.240
Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:41.200
And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.159
Yeah.
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.120
Yeah.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:55.759
And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation and stuff like that.
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.840
Now she's an OnlyFans stripper.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:14.319
Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster.
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:20.079
Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.599
Like I remember people who were very hot in the day.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:28.319
You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU.
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:37.279
Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that?
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.960
Because you look so familiar.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:44.240
But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:50.240
The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:55.759
I mean, looking started born, like this is the fourth time they've made it.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:56.480
Yeah.
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:14.400
Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:21.200
They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.559
I'm like three times.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.759
This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.200
I believe she was before that.
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.359
There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize.
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:51.359
But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy.
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:57.279
Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.240
Um The Angels.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.319
It's a wonderful life.
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.240
That's my favorite Christmas movie.
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:06.640
I cry at the end of it every time I watch it.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.160
And I've watched it so many times.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:16.000
So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.160
And as a movie, it flopped.
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.680
Same with Wizard of Oz.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.440
Was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out.
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:41.920
So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:48.720
Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.119
Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:59.440
They you want it to be immortal or or like eat yeah, or just endless.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:00.799
Some people don't.
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:10.240
Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop house girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives.
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:16.880
And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:17.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.279
I definitely agree with you.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:28.240
Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:33.359
And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:46.559
Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country where all that's really left.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:57.279
Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege.
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:07.119
They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.000
Yeah, they're giving us.
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:13.519
I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:13.839
Yeah.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:25.039
And as somebody who is truly age blind and doesn't like categorizing categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:38.000
And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erendlip up on the refrigerator.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.599
I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.599
You know, they're my two year old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920
They limit their kids' screen time.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:59.680
So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the res, dare I say, responsibility to create a next generation of doers.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:01.440
And thinkers.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:06.319
So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.559
It's not something you're born with.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:28.960
And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents would go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:37.759
Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.319
That is where the toxicity really lies.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.799
Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, what is this?
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.480
Oh my God, I'm so intrigued.
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:55.039
And they just, I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.640
He does it because he still likes movie making.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.039
He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.720
And he's absolutely right.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:02.319
Yeah.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:17.839
But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.759
I am proof positive that that is not the case.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.960
So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026.
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:32.400
And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.279
It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.200
You like movies, I like movies.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.680
You like horror movies, I like horror movies.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:56.079
You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational.
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:13.200
And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:19.359
Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:28.799
So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals.
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.720
So yeah, I agree.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:44.079
And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in.
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:54.960
Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch?
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.119
And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube.
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:04.880
Like it, and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:22.720
Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.920
If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:38.000
Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially from actually.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.720
Putting down the small screen.
00:25:49.039 --> 00:26:04.720
I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big, well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.359
But I think that everybody has an obligation.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.319
I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:30.880
But I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F-bomb, put down the fucking foam and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.240
Yeah.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:44.079
I've come learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know, like through work and stuff.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:57.920
I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:07.200
Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.960
That's what influences them, is social media in general.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:24.559
They're not it kind of and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.720
Yeah, and it didn't start out that way.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:33.039
I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.400
And back then, it was exactly what you're saying.
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:43.680
It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:48.720
It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.599
So I never knew it at the beginning.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.319
That was all it really was to me.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:10.160
And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:18.799
And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:30.160
And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.920
I was a director and a prop master and a writer.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:41.440
Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:55.920
But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.119
But then when I say to them, well, who are your fans?
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:05.119
they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality.
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:12.799
So I will sometimes call myself a coinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.960
Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star.
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.960
I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:30.319
Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies.
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.200
Like, as you said, like who are your followers?
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:34.400
Well, I don't really know.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:49.519
They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:58.960
And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:05.279
And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with, I think, like people like Leo DiCaprio.
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.480
He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.920
Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled.
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:30.640
Um, I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:37.680
They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359
But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:55.119
Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.480
There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:06.799
And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:14.880
And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.519
Where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall?
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:33.519
Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouth, has a is a bigger dick swinger.
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.000
Like this doesn't belong on my page.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.799
I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:44.240
And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:55.759
If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:01.279
Yeah, I mean, I I I guess I might have learned the hard way.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.400
Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:11.519
Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash.
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:20.720
I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back.
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:30.559
That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MA breeding ground, uh kind of just shit fest.
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.599
That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.200
You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up.
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:52.480
I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:00.640
And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.000
And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:11.920
And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.799
And my podcast producer was livid.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.599
He's like, Why did you remove that post?
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:27.920
And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face.
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.680
Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.759
You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.240
We're not talking about our faces.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.680
Like, have we have we completely lost our minds?
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.160
So, um, yeah, great topic.
00:33:44.319 --> 00:34:02.720
I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be?
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:09.199
If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks?
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:16.880
Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.239
I would choose the latter over the former any day.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:21.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.880
Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.039
I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:48.639
I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers.
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.039
Yeah, and everybody who's really there's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.159
It's called A Good Person.
00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:01.679
I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it.
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:07.280
It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone, she's like, You don't like it?
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.360
She's who did the who made you do this?
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.960
She's like an influencer.
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:12.400
She influenced me.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:33.599
And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.079
But it is totally pervasive.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:52.960
And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product that's blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me.
00:35:53.599 --> 00:36:03.440
Um but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.800
It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:27.519
And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio going all the way up to The Apprentice, and it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:28.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:37.840
It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air.
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:51.920
It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it stuck there.
00:36:52.079 --> 00:37:00.639
And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:10.079
Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting.
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:37.519
I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet.
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.639
So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world.
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.559
And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona.
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:54.320
I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:54.960
Yeah.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:01.440
Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.960
I'm not Gene Kelly.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.360
Shoot your next movie here in Arizona.
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.800
It's lovely and uh possibly.
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.239
Uh what is it?
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:20.000
One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.440
He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great.
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.880
Uh so makes a that's one thing.
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.000
Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry.
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:36.480
Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.679
We have to work hard to get where we want to be.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.320
And a lot of it does depend on luck.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:39:02.880
When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way.
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:12.000
You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Bolin said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies.
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:22.320
I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:29.599
But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:30.880
Love that, love that.
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:35.360
That is a great, great closing, closing concept.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:35.920
Love that.
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:37.760
Yes, yeah.
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:38.960
Yes.
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:47.199
And uh, for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show.
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:58.400
You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from.
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:04.079
Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:08.639
Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.679
And also, like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more.
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:15.440
Look at things from a whole new angle.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.199
And you could also find me at nancyaf.com.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:26.639
That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore.
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.679
And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.719
And as I said, we all have a day job.
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:43.360
My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems.
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:47.920
Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years.
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:52.400
Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.440
And my tagline is Bright and Timeless Marketing, and I am truly timeless.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.760
And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media.
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:12.000
What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space, and that will all shake out in the end.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.320
Yes, I totally agree.
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.119
Well, folks, till next time, stay high in life.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:19.920
Out.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.440
Hey folks, how y'all doing?
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:24.400
I'm El Tessier.
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.239
Welcome to another episode of Shadow Box.
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:39.280
Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker, and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar.
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:40.800
Nancy, great to have you on the show.
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.760
Thank you so much.
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.880
I love your description.
00:41:43.039 --> 00:42:10.559
The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change, to flip the script, as they say.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.960
Just remember what Michelle Yeo said when she won an Academy Award.
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.599
Nobody is ever uh out of their prime.
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.360
I believe that's her that was her words.
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.239
No shame.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:26.159
Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.199
Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:38.880
I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name.
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.360
Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.280
Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.320
Leslie Nielsen.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:55.519
Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.840
Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years.
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:09.599
And I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about Mad Men, Matthew Weiner.
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.920
How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit?
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.960
So um, it's never too late.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:27.440
My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:29.440
I am just getting started.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:30.800
Yeah.
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:32.559
Yeah, no, trust me.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.480
And that's that's another thing, definitely a story for another day.
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:42.960
Cause like if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:48.880
Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie.
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:57.280
And whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:58.320
Oh, absolutely.
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:05.360
It's a woman, you know, who's Lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977.
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.880
I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes.
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:17.199
I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life.
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:30.159
Because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.679
I'm going to make change.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.840
And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is?
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.119
Like it pains me.
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:50.880
And I know we're going to be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.639
Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:58.800
Like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women?
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.400
Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths.
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:09.440
I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm going to take off my clothes and go live in the Bob House.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.639
Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too.
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:24.960
Because they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth.
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:39.199
And they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper.
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:43.840
I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.360
Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:50.559
I mean, not to be judgmental, you know.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:46:03.519
As I say, you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular.
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:13.840
And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes?
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:19.119
To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school?
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.920
And they're like, No, why would why would I do that?
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:32.880
And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean, doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:34.960
Can I say vagina on your podcast?
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.679
I I have zero no filter whatsoever.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.119
Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.880
So okay then.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.280
Yeah, no, I have no filter.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:57.360
Uh you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeff and don't like swear.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.920
So no, I'm not a gratuitous potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.280
I have no filter.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.400
A well-placed F-bomb never hurts.
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:07.679
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:21.119
And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:40.239
Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:47.920
Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:56.400
I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society?
00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.480
How are you contributing?
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.960
Yeah, and here are some fun facts.
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:14.239
75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:20.559
That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%.
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:31.920
You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues.
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:38.480
So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.840
That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.360
There is no question about it.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.760
You will get a lot of awareness and exposure.
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:54.159
But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product?
00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:02.159
So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game.
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.960
Because likes are not in and of themselves currency.
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:13.119
They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that.
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:22.239
And I rebranded this year, um, I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF and NancyAF.com.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.719
And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them.
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:52.079
It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.159
So there's an end game.
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.880
It's not just about being popular.
00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:01.599
And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:07.519
I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.239
And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old.
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:20.159
Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids.
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:24.320
I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school.
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:36.400
We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:37.440
Yeah.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:44.159
Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:53.360
And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret.
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:59.760
One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree.
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:01.440
Yeah, no, I I get it.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:20.320
I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging.
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:43.440
And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective.
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:44.320
Yeah.
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:55.039
The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in, like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.440
You're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it.
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.880
And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount.
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:07.599
Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego.
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:15.199
They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.400
I'm like, it's an ego fest.
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.719
You're getting high off of your own narcissism.
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.039
Yeah, best seller on Amazon.
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:29.440
Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm?
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:43.440
Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online.
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:55.360
I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful.
00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:10.159
I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance.
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:15.039
And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money?
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.639
Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.760
And then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product.
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:30.239
And I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it.
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.360
Will that change over the next five, 10 years?
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:44.960
Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out.
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:51.280
And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money.
00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:00.480
Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but their agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote.
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.559
Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product.
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.079
You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:10.400
That to me is not selling out.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:17.119
But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky.
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.239
Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it?
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:21.840
Uh I don't I don't know.
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:22.719
I don't know.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:27.280
I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that.
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.920
But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it.
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:37.679
He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on and they're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money.
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:46.800
Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.880
A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds.
00:54:53.039 --> 00:55:07.280
And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.920
So um I think it's a genius idea.
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:19.119
It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok in person who's got a million followers and doesn't care.
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:27.599
In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards.
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.639
And people were like, oh, she's just being real and genuine.
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:37.519
I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand.
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:40.559
Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup.
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:50.079
I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it.
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:57.599
But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:01.920
And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air.
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:09.360
You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now?
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:19.440
Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:28.400
And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:29.280
Yeah.
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:30.320
Yeah.
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:42.880
And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation, stuff like that.
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.039
Now she's an OnlyFans stripper.
00:56:45.519 --> 00:57:01.519
Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster.
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:07.280
Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old.
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.800
Like I remember people who were very hot in the day.
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:15.519
You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU.
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:24.400
Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that?
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:26.079
Because you look so familiar.
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:31.360
But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality.
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:37.360
The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless.
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.880
I mean, look at started porn, like this is the fourth time they've made it.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:43.679
Yeah.
00:57:44.000 --> 00:58:01.519
Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas.
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:08.400
They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.760
I'm like three times.
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.960
This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake.
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.400
I believe she was before that.
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:20.559
There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize.
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:38.559
But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy.
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:44.480
Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies.
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:48.400
Um The Angel Life.
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.360
That's my favorite Christmas movie.
00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.840
I cry at the end of it every time I watch it.
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:55.280
And I've watched it so many times.
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:03.199
So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story.
00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.280
And as a movie, it flopped.
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.880
Same with Wizard of Oz.
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.639
It was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out.
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:29.039
So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day.
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:35.840
Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:40.320
Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now.
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:46.639
They you want it to be immortal or or like eat, yeah, or just endless.
00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:47.920
Some people don't.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:57.440
Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop House Girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives.
00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:04.079
And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:05.119
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:06.480
I definitely agree with you.
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:15.360
Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.559
And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them.
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:32.159
Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country.
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:33.760
We're all that's really left.
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:44.400
Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege.
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:54.320
They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad.
01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:00.719
Yeah, and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother.
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:01.039
Yeah.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:08.239
And as somebody who is truly age-blind and doesn't like categorizing, categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, yeah.
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:12.239
I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting.
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:25.119
And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erend Lit up on the refrigerator.
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.800
I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives.
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:34.800
You know, they're my two-year-old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one.
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.119
They limit their kids' screen time.
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:48.559
So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the dare I say responsibility to create a next generation of doers and thinkers.
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.519
So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created.
01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.679
It's not something you're born with.
01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:16.159
And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents to go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it.
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:27.440
That is where the toxicity really lies.
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.920
Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, What is this?
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.599
Oh my god, I'm so intrigued.
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:42.159
And they just I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft.
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:43.840
He does it because he still likes movie making.
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:47.920
He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous, and he's absolutely right.
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.519
Yeah.
01:02:49.760 --> 01:03:05.039
But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf.
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:08.960
I am proof positive that that is not the case.
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:14.159
So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026.
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:19.599
And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities.
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:24.480
It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors.
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.400
You like movies, I like movies.
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:28.880
You like horror movies, I like horror movies.
01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:43.280
You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational.
01:03:43.679 --> 01:04:00.400
And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots.
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:06.480
Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things.
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:15.920
So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals.
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:17.920
So I agree.
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:31.199
And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in.
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:42.079
Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch?
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.320
And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube.
01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:52.000
Like it and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction.
01:04:52.159 --> 01:05:09.920
Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know.
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.119
If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff.
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:25.199
Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially for next year.
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:35.920
You know, and that's something that I've been working really, really hard on is putting down the device, putting down the small screen.
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:51.840
I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure.
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:54.559
But I think that everybody has an obligation.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:59.280
I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:11.039
I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F bomb.
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:18.000
Put down the fucking phone and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:19.360
Yeah.
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:31.280
I've come to learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know like through work and stuff.
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:45.119
I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be.
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:54.320
Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from.
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.079
That's what influences them is social media in general.
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:11.760
They're not it kind, and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.920
Yeah, and it didn't start out that way.
01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:20.239
I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults.
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.519
And back then, it was exactly what you're saying.
01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:30.800
It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn.
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:35.920
It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections.
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:38.800
So I never knew it at the beginning.
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:41.519
That was all it really was to me.
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:57.360
And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star.
01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:06.000
And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition.
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:17.359
And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth.
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.039
I was a director and a prop master and a writer.
01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:28.640
Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences.
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:43.119
But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers.
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.239
But then when I say to them, Well, who are your fans?
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:52.239
they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality.
01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:59.760
So I will sometimes call myself a quinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:04.079
Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star.
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:10.079
I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember.
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:17.439
Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies.
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.319
Like, as you said, like who are your followers?
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:21.600
Well, I don't really know.
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:36.720
They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber.
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:46.079
And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there.
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:52.399
And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with I think like people like Leo DiCaprio.
01:09:52.640 --> 01:09:55.680
He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.
01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:59.039
Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it.
01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:07.359
Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled.
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:17.760
Um I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting.
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:24.880
They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going.
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:32.560
But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive.
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:42.239
Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate.
01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:47.680
There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling.
01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:54.000
And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall.
01:10:54.159 --> 01:11:08.720
And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together, where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall?
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:20.560
Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a, again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouthed, has a is a bigger dick swinger.
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:23.119
Like this doesn't belong on my page.
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.000
I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate.
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:31.439
And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views.
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:42.960
If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:48.399
Yeah, I mean I I I guess I might have learned the hard way.
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:51.600
Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media.
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:58.720
Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash.
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:07.920
I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back.
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:17.680
That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MAG breeding ground uh kind of just shit fest.
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:20.800
That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.399
You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up.
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:39.600
I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup.
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:47.840
And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing.
01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:53.199
And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney.
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:59.119
And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives.
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:01.920
And my podcast producer was livid.
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.720
He's like, Why did you remove that post?
01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:14.960
And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face.
01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.800
Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now.
01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:22.960
You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic.
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.439
We're not talking about our faces.
01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.880
Like, yeah, have we have we completely lost our minds?
01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:31.359
So, um, yeah, great topic.
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:49.840
I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be?
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:56.399
If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks?
01:13:56.720 --> 01:14:04.000
Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life.
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.439
I would choose the latter over the former any day.
01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:08.560
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:16.079
Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast.
01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:20.239
I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that.
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:35.840
I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers.
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:42.079
Yeah, and everybody who really's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply.
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:43.439
It's called A Good Person.
01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:48.880
I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it.
01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:52.800
It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone.
01:14:52.960 --> 01:14:54.479
She's like, you don't like it?
01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.479
She's who did that, who made you do this?
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:58.159
She's like an influencer.
01:14:58.319 --> 01:14:59.520
She influenced me.
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:20.720
And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:23.199
But it is totally pervasive.
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:40.079
And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product was blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me.
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:50.640
Um, but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to.
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:56.000
It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV.
01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:02.720
And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio, going all the way up to The Apprentice.
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:14.720
And it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.
01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:15.840
Yeah, yeah.
01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:24.960
It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air.
01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:39.119
It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it's stuck there.
01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:47.920
And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.
01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:57.279
Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting.
01:16:57.520 --> 01:17:24.640
I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet.
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:29.840
So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world.
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:35.680
And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona.
01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:41.439
I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology.
01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:42.079
Yeah.
01:17:42.319 --> 01:17:48.640
Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain.
01:17:48.720 --> 01:17:50.079
I'm not Gene Kelly.
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:52.479
Shoot your next movie here in Arizona.
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:56.079
It's lovely and uh possibly.
01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:57.359
Uh what is it?
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:07.199
One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it.
01:18:07.359 --> 01:18:10.560
He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great.
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:14.079
Uh so makes a that's one thing.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.199
Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry.
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:23.680
Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry.
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:26.800
We have to work hard to get where we want to be.
01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:29.439
And a lot of it does depend on luck.
01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:50.079
When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way.
01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:59.119
You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Rowland said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies.
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:09.520
I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial.
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:16.800
But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.
01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:18.000
Love that, love that.
01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:22.560
That is a great, great closing, closing concept.
01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:23.119
Love that.
01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:24.960
Yes, yeah.
01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:26.159
Yes.
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:34.319
And uh for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show.
01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:45.600
You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from.
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:51.039
Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind.
01:19:51.359 --> 01:20:00.880
Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons and also like like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more.
01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:02.560
Look at things from a whole new angle.
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:06.319
And you could also find me at nancyaf.com.
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:13.840
That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore.
01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:18.800
And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content.
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.840
And as I said, we all have a day job.
01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:30.560
My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems.
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.119
Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years.
01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:39.520
Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time.
01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.640
And my tagline is bright and timeless marketing, and I am truly timeless.
01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:48.960
And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media.
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:56.399
What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space.
01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:59.119
And that will all shake out in the end.
01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:01.520
Yes, I totally agree.
01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:06.319
Well, folks, until next time, stay high in life.
01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:07.279
Out.
