Brain Melt Episode Five: Little Nightmares

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Welcome back to Brain Melt Cinema. This is Chris, joined
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as always by Bill. Hello, Bill.
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Hey, Chris. How you doing?
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Doing great. Bill, as you know, we use Brain Melt Cinema,
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and we say this every week, to be a podcast
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where we think of it as like a diminutive podcast
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looking to tackle the big world of outsider art.
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Like that. You've got a way with words, sir.
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Thank you. No, it's funny that we chose that. intro
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in the beginning, because perhaps no movies fit that better
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than what we're going to be covering on episode five today,
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which we're going to be calling Little Nightmares. Cannot wait
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to get into it, but just to catch people up
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because we're still a young podcast. We're still nascent. Episode one,
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if you want to go back, we covered Doris Wishman
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and J.P. Simone. We hadn't really got into themes at
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that point. We just thought they were both badass. Episode two,
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We cover, I guess the way that we talk about
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it was like deep sequels that are unhinged and have
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no business being sequels to the original, but are really fun.
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Episode three, we cover inanimate object horror. Episode four, RIP,
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the legend Yoshihiro Nishimura. And I got to say, before
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we get into today, you know, I listened to that
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episode just to make sure that we didn't, the audio
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wasn't bad and, you know, whatever, just generally listening to
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this And I really liked it. I don't know if
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that's a self-serving thing to say about the own episode,
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but I really like this idea of thinking of Nishimura
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as a surrealist artist who also happened to be a filmmaker.
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I don't know. I thought we took it in a
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cool direction.
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I don't want to toot our horns too much, so
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I'll leave that to you. But I did have a
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lot of fun with that, and it was great to.
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I had never taken his movies as a whole and
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looked at his career.
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And his background and stuff.
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And so I loved those movies already, but watching them
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in that way just gave me a new appreciation. And
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I hope anybody that listened maybe either discovered him through
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this or one of his movies.
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So, yeah, I think I thought that was really fun.
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I'm glad we did it.
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Yeah. And that's what we're trying to do. Trying to
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bring attention to movies that may be overlooked or seen
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as weird. And we're trying to say, yeah, they're weird.
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And look how beautiful. Um, and we're going to talk about,
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you know, yeah, you go ahead.
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Well, not to cut you off, but I think that
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as we're going to get into with this episode, particularly, um,
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episode five, I think it's a good time for us
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to kind of reiterate what the, what the mission statement
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was or, and how this sort of all came about. And, uh,
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this list that we're basing this off of that we're,
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we're running with, um, it was really created as a
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way to, to highlight and, and, and look at movies that,
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are trashy, maybe.
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Are disgusting, are transgressive outsider.
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Um, not necessarily from any one specific, um, genre, but
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just as a whole are movies that sort of don't
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get necessarily the respect or the recognition or the accolades
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that they, they should, in my opinion. Um, and instead
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they get relegated to that dumpster of, uh, so bad
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it's good, which I've said a bunch of times on
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the show that I, fucking i hate that phrase i
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think it's productive i think it's like antithetical to the
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spirit of whether it's a regional horror movie or you
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know um some outsider claymation movie i just think like
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so bad it's good it's just like the calling card
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of dimwits uh if you're out there and you're a
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dimwit and you're listening to this it's fine you can
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say it it's it's all right but um but in
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this journey, you know, we may actually pick some movies
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where we, we watch them again and we think, I
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don't know if this actually fits the mission. And I
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think we're going to have some stuff to say about
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that in this episode.
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Perfect. Perfect lead in really. So I was so pumped
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because we were building this around the second movie we're
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going to talk about today, which is the secret adventures
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of Tom Thumb. And so, you're giving me an option
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to pick something that fits that thematically. And I was
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so excited to go revisit Volker Schlondorff's, the tin drum.
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And in my mind, this was a slam dunk choice
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for what we're doing. Um, because the premise of this
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movie is fucking nuts. Like it's, you know, there's a
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kid that at age three just decides to stop growing
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and he continues to age mentally. Um, But he has
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an arrested development or a suspended pre-adolescence. And he has
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the same body for his whole life. And he goes
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through all the typical milestones of development as a little person.
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And we'll get into this movie a lot. But in
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my mind, there's so many crazy things that happened to
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this boy. And it was extremely controversial when it came out,
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which we can get into a little bit. but I
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thought this was like a slam dunk for, for brain melt.
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So it was on the list.
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I mean, I did too. Um, I hadn't seen this
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movie in about 20 years, um, before tonight. And, uh,
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at the time when I first discovered it and I,
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I think I had only ever seen it maybe twice
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at most. I'm pretty sure I'd seen it once by
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myself when I bought the DVD, the criterion DVD.
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And then I know I watched it then. And then
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I watched it again with some friends.
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Um, a few years after that, which might be why
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they stopped letting me pick the movies. Um, so it
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was that and say, low, I think we're the ones
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that did it. But, uh, yeah, I remember this movie
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being like, in my mind when I was creating the
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brain melt list, I was like, Oh, the 10 drum
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fucking checks every box. And, and really like in a
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way it does because it's insane.
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It's obscene. It's, it's grotesque.
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It's, you know, it's brain meltingly insane, but at the
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same time, like it's respected, but it's been sort of like,
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I don't know, forgotten is the right word, but I
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don't know when the last time you heard somebody mentioned
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this movie was for me, I don't think I've ever
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just in, in conversation online or in person with movie bus,
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this movie has never come up.
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No, no. I think it's, it's just, it's also, how.
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Is nobody talking about the tin drum?
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It's extremely uncomfortable, first of all.
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It's very uncomfortable.
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There were so many moments during this movie where I
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was like, Jesus! Because the kid was 11. We had
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to say this up front. The main actor who played
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this was not a little person who they put baby
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makeup on and then made it an adult. This was
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an 11-year-old boy. I just think that's important to know
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for what we're about to talk about.
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Yes. Yes, it's not a three-year-old. So don't worry.
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But it's not a man like this is not an adult.
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This is not an 18 year old. You know, like
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I know, you know, Eastern Europe, the law, the consent
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age of consent might be a little different, but I
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don't think it was 11. Yeah, this movie, this movie
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created quite a stir when it was released.
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And what was that year, Chris? Because you're good with facts.
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1979 is when it came out.
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Yeah.
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So 79, well, you know, it's really funny. So 79
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is when it came out and it caused quite a stir.
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It won the Palm door. It ended up winning an
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Academy award. So it's not like this movie was like,
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like trashed, which is kind of crazy. Cause when you
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think about it too, like not to get on a
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tangent here, but with how safe the Oscars play it now, imagine,
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imagine a time, right. Imagine a time when something like
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the tin drum won an Oscar like that.
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That's just fucking crazy. We used to be, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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This was a society at one point, you know?
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Um, but it, it also, it had, it made quite
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a stir in Canada, um, in around 1980, uh, when
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Canadian authorities, uh, in Ontario, they cut the film, they
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banned it. Um, they called it child pornography.
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Yeah.
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Um, and then there was also in, you know, 1997,
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I think it was in Oklahoma. Um, they're, they had
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some weird strict anti-pornography laws. And, uh, there was a
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group there. Um, I can't remember what it was called.
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I wrote it down.
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Oklahomans for children and families for some reason, you know.
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Got onto the tin drum in 1997. And, uh, and
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there was a whole to do about it. And, um,
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some judge, he watched the movie. He only watched a
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part of it, decided that it violated Oklahoma, uh, obscenity laws.
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And literally, uh, in 1997, there were cops breaking down
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people's doors. Maybe not necessarily, but like going into people's
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homes and seizing copies of this movie. They were literally
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going to like blockbuster and getting information on who had
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rented this and we're going to these people's homes. Um,
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so that's just crazy. And then eventually it went to
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court and, uh, it got struck down. Um, but it really,
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you know, caused a lot of commotion.
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Um, yes.
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And for stupid reason, I mean, obviously there's no like,
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this 11 year old kid's not fucking in the movie.
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Like there's, there's some veiled and some not so veiled
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references to it.
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I mean, it's certainly worth a conversation, right? Like it's,
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it's hard to, say like, there's nothing weird in this movie,
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but like, this is the whole point of censorship, right?
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Like you can't, this is the whole point of art
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censorship and art is you can't find a line. So
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if you can't find a line and it's not illegal,
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then like just, and then ultimately common sense prevailed and
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everything was like relaxed. But yeah, can you imagine just
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having your name on a record because you rented this?
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That sucks.
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Yeah, everybody who rented the tin drum is on some
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FBI list still to this day, I'm sure.
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Or they went and dug it up because the new
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regime wants to do that kind of stuff.
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Right.
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Which is keeping in the spirit of Schlondorf's thing. I
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do want to mention, before we get into the movie
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too much, Schlondorf is not only the director of this movie,
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but he's also one of the lesser talked about names
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from new German cinema. And so, you know, he was
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part of this, you know, like the French New Wave
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and like the Japanese New Wave and Czech New Wave
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and different things. So that movement was called New German Cinema.
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Yeah, with Fassbender.
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Yep, Fassbender, Herzog, Uli Lammel, Wolfgang Peterson, Strauss-Hullier and Wim Wenders,
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Wim Wenders, whatever. So like a ton of Marguerite von Trotta,
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like there's a ton of amazing directors coming out of this. And, uh,
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you know, Schlondorf certainly had, uh, I would say two
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like really big hits. So he, he made a lot
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of movies, but this one, and then the last honor
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of Katerina bloom were two that, well, I guess you
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could say death of a salesman. So maybe three.
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Yeah.
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Really kind of like, you know, he was like a
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well-known director in the seventies and eighties and he, and
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he was, you know, getting money and financing to make
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more movies and, um, certainly a competent director. Um, So,
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but he's, people don't really talk about him now, which
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I do think is interesting.
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Yeah, no, none of those three movies, you know, the
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tin drum or the other two you mentioned, um, are,
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are really, they're, they're still well regarded.
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I'm sure.
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I mean, if you, if you talk to people who
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have seen it that, you know, they hold it in
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high esteem, but it's certainly not, these aren't movies that
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anybody's like jumping to talk about.
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Right.
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So, um, which I think is why we dug it up. Uh,
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and I, I'm glad, honestly, I'm glad you chose it. Um, when,
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as soon as you did, you know, you said it
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was a slam dunk. I was like, yeah, okay.
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Yup. It fit the theme.
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It was, you know, uh, it was, I, it's great
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to have a reason to go back and revisit some
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of these movies, which is another reason why I love
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that we're doing this. Um, so yeah, man, let's talk
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about it.
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Let's talk about it. Well, I think I would, I
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would love for you to do if you have this ready,
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if not, I can do it, but you know, we
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always talk about intros and this is a funny intro
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to me. Because we see an 11 year old boy
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being born.
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Yeah.
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But he's like, there's that creepy shot of him, like
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in the womb where he's like staring from behind a
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uterine wall.
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Yeah. And it's, it's like, it's so fucking unsettling.
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Like I was watching the movie just alone in my
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room and I had to turn a lamp on.
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Like I was so disturbed by it. It's so fucking weird.
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And actually, you know what?
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I'm going to say this now because otherwise I'm a
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hundred percent going to forget when we get into Tom Thumb.
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But do you, did you realize before right now?
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Cause I didn't until we just said it, that both
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of these movies open with the main character in utero.
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Oh, hell yeah. That's right. No, I, I'm so glad
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you said that. I wouldn't have called it.
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What a fucking coincidence. Right. And both are like almost
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equally creepy.
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That's true.
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So, yeah, that's true. Yeah, man.
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Like we, we are on a roll with movies that
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have like either bizarre openings or like really memorable openings.
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Yeah. And in a, in a, in a move where
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I don't quite understand the significance of this and I
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meant to dig into it and I didn't, so sorry everybody,
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but he, you know, he fully understands English or German,
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I guess in this case, and he fully understands like
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his mom speaking to him. And she says, when you
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turn three, you're going to get a tin drum. And
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that's like he bases his entire life off of that
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moment when he turns three, which is like, I don't know.
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I don't know. Anyways, I don't know the significance of that.
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But he like he was all in on this tin
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drum idea.
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Oh, yeah.
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He was he was like, oh, man, I got something
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to look forward to. I just got to make it three.
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But it's weird because he's already it's almost like that
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Benjamin Button thing where he's already he's already older mentally
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than his body is. So when he, you know, hits
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three years old and first of all, he's in the
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weirdest family.
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Dynamic you've ever seen.
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We'll talk about that.
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Yeah.
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Like it gets weird, but he hits three and he's like,
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all right, I got my drum. I'm good. Like, this
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is it.
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This was my end game. Everything else from here is
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just icing on the cake. So, I mean, if he
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just throws himself down some stairs, which apparently if you
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throw yourself down some stairs, you're just going to stop growing.
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Yeah.
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That's an interesting thing. There's like a, so there's a
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party at their house. And somebody leaves the cellar door
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open and downstairs is a bunch of wine. It's like
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a wine cellar, I guess. And he places his drum
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down because he doesn't want to hurt the drum. And
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then he walks like three quarters of the way up
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the stairs, pushes all the wine down that's up in
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like shelving kind of, and then just jumps basically and screams.
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And then the mom and one of the dads comes in.
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We'll get to that in a second.
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Yeah.
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Yeah and like see him on the floor and then
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for the rest of this dad's life he has to
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live with the fact that he didn't close the cellar
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door and so his son stopped growing at three years old.
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Which he doesn't realize this was this was all deliberate
315
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this wasn't an accident this was this was a choice
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on uh on what the hell's his name oscar yeah
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00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:03.320
yeah um So yeah, like you said, he's got two
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dads because we don't know who his dad is. You
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have his mom, Agnes. She's married to Alfred, who, what
320
00:16:10.470 --> 00:16:11.929
is he? He works in a grocery store.
321
00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:14.610
Yeah, it's the Mario Adorf.
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00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:16.029
It's the grocery store, yeah.
323
00:16:16.149 --> 00:16:18.519
It's the grocery store, but it's also the Mario Adorf.
324
00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:22.919
I love that guy. He becomes, as he grows up,
325
00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:25.840
he becomes Mario Adorf, who's one of my favorite Italian actors.
326
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:28.000
Do you recognize that face from a lot of the
327
00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:28.830
Italian crime movies?
328
00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:30.509
Yeah. You know what?
329
00:16:30.610 --> 00:16:31.970
It's funny now that you say, cause when I was
330
00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:35.710
watching it, I was like, he looked very familiar, but
331
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I didn't bother to look it up.
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So that's great.
333
00:16:37.909 --> 00:16:39.789
I'm sure I've seen him in, I bet if I
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00:16:39.809 --> 00:16:41.350
go on letterbox and I look him up, I've probably
335
00:16:41.370 --> 00:16:43.269
seen six movies with him in it at least or something.
336
00:16:43.929 --> 00:16:44.809
Oh yeah. Yeah.
337
00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:45.210
He's great.
338
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That's awesome.
339
00:16:46.629 --> 00:16:52.470
And, uh, but then Agnes is also, she's fucking Jan, uh,
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00:16:52.549 --> 00:16:56.399
a Polish man. So, so here's Oscar has no idea
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who his dad is. He's, and, And that's one of
342
00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:04.200
the really interesting things about this movie is after Oscar
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stops growing, his mind continues to evolve. And he turns
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into this like, you know, he goes through all the
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things that people go through.
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Right.
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He goes through adolescence. He he goes through like essentially
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puberty in his mind. He has a sexual awakening. but
349
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he also becomes a very cynical, very like manipulative, uh,
350
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shitty person because he's a, he's sort of, um, a
351
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victim of circumstances. He's a, he's a creation of his environment.
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And because he looks three years old, everyone around him
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is sort of forgetting that he's not three. So they're
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doing things and saying things that, I mean, you've got
355
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kids or you have, you have a son.
356
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I have nieces and nephews and stuff.
357
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Uh, we all tend to be a little bit more
358
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open when we're around these kids, when they're that age, because, well,
359
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.220
they don't understand, they don't know, you know, but in
360
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.430
this movie, he knows, like he gets it. Like he sees, uh,
361
00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:04.829
his mom fucking around with Jan and, uh, gets this
362
00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:10.069
very distorted view of sexuality. And, uh, and that just
363
00:18:10.109 --> 00:18:13.549
really informs his entire, uh, narrative arc through the movie.
364
00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:17.740
Um, just really quickly on Jan. just because we don't
365
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have to go through the whole cast or anything, but
366
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I just thought it was interesting. So Mario Adorf, who
367
00:18:22.099 --> 00:18:25.339
plays the husband, is this well-known... I mean, he's been
368
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:28.900
in all kinds of movies, but most of his movies
369
00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:31.259
are Italian exploitation movies. That's how I got to know him.
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00:18:31.299 --> 00:18:33.900
It's in German exploitation movies. And then the other, Jan,
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I don't know if you recognized his face, but he's
372
00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:40.849
been in something like 180 Polish movies. This guy was always.
373
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So he was the one that I recognized right away
374
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:50.190
because he's in, um, Gaga Gloria to the heroes, um, from,
375
00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:52.049
I don't know how you say his name.
376
00:18:53.150 --> 00:18:56.910
Um, Zulkin, Zulkin. Oh, Peter Shulkin.
377
00:18:57.470 --> 00:19:03.750
There you go. Shulkin. Perfect. Totally make the sh sound. Yep. Uh, sorry, everybody.
378
00:19:03.950 --> 00:19:06.819
I'm uncultured. Um, I'm American.
379
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:07.430
What do you want from me?
380
00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:10.619
But that's a phenomenal movie. I fucking love that movie.
381
00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:14.039
That collection that Vinegar Syndrome put out and then Radiance
382
00:19:14.059 --> 00:19:15.799
put out. I think they put out a trilogy where
383
00:19:15.819 --> 00:19:17.200
Vinegar Syndrome put out the four.
384
00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:19.680
Incredible. Incredible.
385
00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.440
And also now that I'm looking at his letterbox, he's
386
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.160
also in Salt with Angelina Jolie.
387
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.119
So there you go. And he's in the Decalogue. Look
388
00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:28.380
at that.
389
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:34.630
Yeah. He's just in everything. And one of the screenwriters
390
00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:38.400
was Jean-Claude Carrier who was like a foundational writer for
391
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.700
the French new wave. So it's just interesting. Like they got,
392
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.240
I mean, you know, this is by all accounts, a,
393
00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:47.990
an art house, like favorite movie.
394
00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:49.450
Absolutely.
395
00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:53.400
And, fucked up we would be remiss to not talk
396
00:19:53.420 --> 00:19:56.930
about um or at least mention david bennett uh who
397
00:19:56.970 --> 00:20:01.329
plays oscar and anybody who sees this movie if you
398
00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:04.589
were a child in the 80s or the 90s uh,
399
00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:07.950
if he looks familiar, it's because he, uh, is, um,
400
00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:14.220
Gump from legend, which is what I knew him from originally, obviously. And, uh,
401
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.079
he's like, like in a movie with Tim Curry as
402
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.720
the devil, Gump is still somehow the creepiest character. Uh,
403
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.730
I don't know what, I don't know what he's supposed
404
00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:26.990
to be. He's supposed to be like, uh, what's that?
405
00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:33.160
What's the, um, it's like, uh, mythological or like folkloric
406
00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:36.079
sort of character where it's, uh, like pan where he's
407
00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:38.029
got the flute and he, you know, he's on like
408
00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:42.029
earhoofs basically. Uh, great, great character, great actor. And he
409
00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:44.450
does have sort of a congenital issue, right? Like he,
410
00:20:44.630 --> 00:20:46.230
he does have, I don't know if it's a form
411
00:20:46.250 --> 00:20:51.509
of dwarfism or, um, or what, but he, he, he
412
00:20:51.589 --> 00:20:52.970
is rather odd looking.
413
00:20:54.069 --> 00:20:56.390
Well, in the sense that he looks exactly like Frankie
414
00:20:56.410 --> 00:20:57.369
Munoz or.
415
00:20:57.650 --> 00:21:02.119
He looks just like Frankie Munoz. He absolutely does, dude.
416
00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:05.940
But then he was 19 when he played Gump, and
417
00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:07.980
he was still very childlike.
418
00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:12.849
He never really... I don't know. Weird. Anyway.
419
00:21:14.650 --> 00:21:22.720
I'll start casting crew. Now, this is a... I don't
420
00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:25.079
want to get too much into this, because to be honest,
421
00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:29.859
I'm not prepared. There's a ton... Like, there's a ton,
422
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.700
I mean, the sense that this is a whole, like,
423
00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:39.099
you know, semester-long course on authoritarianism, totalitarianism, and, like, this
424
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:44.150
is an open polemic against these, well, Nazi Germany.
425
00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:45.089
Yep.
426
00:21:45.589 --> 00:21:48.670
And probably, he probably meant it broader as, like, against
427
00:21:48.730 --> 00:21:51.349
any kind of authoritarian regime. But, like, this is a
428
00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:53.549
very clearly, like, an anti-Nazi movie.
429
00:21:54.789 --> 00:21:57.390
It's anti-Nazi, but at the same time, it's told from very.
430
00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:02.960
Nazi sympathetic points of view. So it's really interesting the
431
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.480
way I'd love to read the book. Um, I, I
432
00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:09.059
plan to read the book after having rewatched this now. Um,
433
00:22:10.299 --> 00:22:14.130
but yeah, it's so when the Nazi regime falls at
434
00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:15.170
the end, you know, I don't want to jump to
435
00:22:15.190 --> 00:22:17.990
the end, but like it is played as sort of tragic.
436
00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:19.670
Um, sure.
437
00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:25.359
And, and obviously it mirrors the beginning, um, the early scenes, um,
438
00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:29.730
with in Danzig with the rise of Nazism, um, Um,
439
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.200
but yeah, it's, it's just, there's one specific scene that
440
00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:37.940
I really love. And, uh, what, what kind of really
441
00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:40.579
sums it all up the whole like take on Nazism
442
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:44.940
in this to me was so, so Oscar's got his drum.
443
00:22:45.009 --> 00:22:46.609
It's his favorite thing in the world. He takes it
444
00:22:46.650 --> 00:22:47.390
everywhere he goes.
445
00:22:47.650 --> 00:22:49.289
He's always got his drum, but this is not like
446
00:22:49.309 --> 00:22:53.829
an innocent little children's toy. It's Oscar uses this drum
447
00:22:54.049 --> 00:23:00.039
to cause calamity and stir up shit. he's a bit
448
00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:02.859
of an asshole and when he wants to be an
449
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:07.849
asshole he uses his drum to cause chaos he can
450
00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:11.269
also scream really high pitched and break glass so that's
451
00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:12.529
his superpower.
452
00:23:14.289 --> 00:23:16.390
I think it's very important that he becomes a Nazi
453
00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:19.450
sympathizer for the story to make sense because in my
454
00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:24.230
mind that scream is representative of the chaos and calamity
455
00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:27.000
that the Nazi party brought to something beautiful.
456
00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:32.039
I think his whole character sort of is, is essentially that.
457
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.099
But there's that one great scene where the Nazis are
458
00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:39.039
marching and they're marching to a very steady rhythm and
459
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.190
Oscar uses his drum to try to fuck with them.
460
00:23:41.490 --> 00:23:42.210
Yeah.
461
00:23:42.369 --> 00:23:45.690
And instead of throwing them off their rhythm, literally the
462
00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:48.549
Nazis just adapt and it just turns into this like dance.
463
00:23:50.230 --> 00:23:53.250
And it's really, it's, it's surreal and it's kind of beautiful,
464
00:23:53.269 --> 00:23:55.019
but it's also sort of very fucking weird.
465
00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:57.920
Cause you know, it's, nazis so.
466
00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:01.140
Yeah the drum seems to give him a superpower where
467
00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:04.559
he'll go like on the snare drum and then scream
468
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:05.640
like you said i'm not gonna do.
469
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.559
It yeah do it chris do it.
470
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.599
And then he can he even gets like just like
471
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:13.700
uh i guess like an x-men movie or something when
472
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:16.099
they're learning their skills like he gets more and more
473
00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:20.019
precise with his screams so like at the end there's
474
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.339
this interesting scene where he goes all the way from
475
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.119
just breaking like a whole house of glass to where
476
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:29.339
he can inscribe a heart on a crystal glass for
477
00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:31.039
a woman that, that he's going after.
478
00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:32.500
So such a great thing.
479
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.640
Yeah, it's good. It's well done. Yeah. But like, you know, he,
480
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:38.349
so he, he's progressing mentally. There's just many ways that
481
00:24:38.380 --> 00:24:41.950
you can like, look at that. But there is something
482
00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:43.789
that I think is probably worth talking about as a
483
00:24:43.809 --> 00:24:49.250
story goes on. Just so as you mentioned that he's,
484
00:24:49.670 --> 00:24:52.970
so his mom, I'm not quite sure who she's supposed
485
00:24:53.009 --> 00:24:56.829
to represent, but, she's with a Polish guy and a
486
00:24:56.849 --> 00:24:57.470
German guy.
487
00:24:58.230 --> 00:24:58.410
Yep.
488
00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:03.089
And, um, uh, I guess there's no, we have to
489
00:25:03.130 --> 00:25:06.089
kind of talk about spoilers cause it isn't like we don't,
490
00:25:06.130 --> 00:25:07.730
maybe we don't have to talk about the entire movie,
491
00:25:07.769 --> 00:25:08.509
but I do think.
492
00:25:08.369 --> 00:25:10.369
It's hard to talk about the movie without spoiling some things.
493
00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:13.410
Yeah, exactly. Like this movie continues to change and become
494
00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:16.059
different things. It's like two hours and it's a three
495
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:16.480
hour movie.
496
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:19.500
Essentially it's two hours and 40 minutes and change.
497
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.359
So, I mean, and it's, it's essentially like, it is
498
00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:25.630
almost like an odyssey, uh, where it's like, it's told
499
00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:26.710
in sort of these vignettes.
500
00:25:28.490 --> 00:25:30.829
Well, and, and, and people keep dying, right? So his mother,
501
00:25:31.210 --> 00:25:33.369
his mother dies. And that's like the first tragic event.
502
00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:34.549
I think it's the first tragedy.
503
00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:38.630
And her death is fucking weird. Like there's that.
504
00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:41.750
Do you want to, I kind of want to spoil it.
505
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.140
Cause it, to me, it's one of the like most
506
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:45.519
memorable scenes in the movie.
507
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:47.480
No, we have to, it's only like midway through the movie.
508
00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:49.140
So it's not even, I mean, there's so much that happens.
509
00:25:49.779 --> 00:25:49.980
Yeah.
510
00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:51.039
Go ahead.
511
00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:55.230
Well, I'm trying to remember. There's so much that happens
512
00:25:55.250 --> 00:25:57.710
in this movie, it makes your head spin. But there's
513
00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:03.890
a scene with... She becomes obsessed with eating fish. And
514
00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:06.509
it's really fucking gross. There's literally a scene where you're
515
00:26:07.230 --> 00:26:09.519
watching her biting the heads off of these fish and
516
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:13.859
just chewing them. So, first of all, great dedication by
517
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.619
the actress. And it's just really gross.
518
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.460
Well, my interpretation of that whole thing is that her
519
00:26:21.500 --> 00:26:25.720
husband becomes a huge Nazi, right? He's got like the
520
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.150
flea decked out. He's got the costume. He's like, so excited.
521
00:26:29.589 --> 00:26:31.549
He's like a kid. He's like, so excited to go
522
00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:34.269
to the rallies and like, Oh, like they're, they're using me. Like,
523
00:26:34.630 --> 00:26:37.630
you know, he's presented in this way of like almost innocence.
524
00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:43.930
And she hates it. And she, he gets into canned
525
00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:47.119
fish business. It's eels, I think.
526
00:26:47.190 --> 00:26:47.390
Right.
527
00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:51.130
And, And so he starts canning these eels and she
528
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:55.349
hates it. And then, yeah, so she eats herself to
529
00:26:55.410 --> 00:26:57.269
death on these eels. And there's a moment where she
530
00:26:57.329 --> 00:27:01.690
kind of switches. And the way that I felt when
531
00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:04.019
I was watching that, I hope, sorry, Volker, I think
532
00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:06.960
Volker's still alive. So if you're listening, Volker, sorry, if
533
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:10.900
I'm ruining your interpretation here. But the way that I
534
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:14.160
read it was that, like, look what happens when you
535
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.640
go all in on Nazi propaganda and like Nazi.
536
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:25.289
Commerce and economies. It's just like it's meant to represent.
537
00:27:25.670 --> 00:27:27.569
She was like, all right, you know what? Fine. You
538
00:27:27.589 --> 00:27:30.009
want me to do this? I'm going all in, knowing
539
00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:31.269
that it was going to be her death.
540
00:27:33.869 --> 00:27:34.109
Yeah.
541
00:27:34.589 --> 00:27:40.980
She's just become so overwhelmed by everything that's happening. Her pregnancy,
542
00:27:41.180 --> 00:27:43.519
her relationship with these two men, the rise of fascism
543
00:27:43.539 --> 00:27:49.269
and Nazism. And yeah, the eels just sort of represent that.
544
00:27:49.309 --> 00:27:54.269
And then she just overdoses on misery and then, and
545
00:27:54.289 --> 00:27:54.789
then dies.
546
00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:57.900
And it's, it's a very weird scene.
547
00:27:57.980 --> 00:27:59.339
And I know the first time I watched it, I
548
00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.859
did not pick up on anything other than, I just
549
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.859
thought it was just gross out, you know, filmmaking this
550
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:10.769
time watching it with, you know, twice as much life experience.
551
00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:15.710
The movie definitely hits different. So, but a great scene,
552
00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:19.000
like really, really great. Um, it's, it's so easy.
553
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:20.599
It would be really easy to just go through this
554
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.440
movie scene by scene. Like we could talk about the
555
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:27.160
post office scene. Um, you know, but I think some
556
00:28:27.220 --> 00:28:29.190
things should be left for anybody who wants to watch
557
00:28:29.210 --> 00:28:31.670
this because it's, it's a great movie.
558
00:28:33.329 --> 00:28:35.390
I totally agree. I do think it's worth mentioning. There's
559
00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:37.430
a third guy and I can't remember if he's with
560
00:28:37.450 --> 00:28:39.950
the post office or a different store. I think he
561
00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:42.130
might be the toy store owner, but he's sort of
562
00:28:42.170 --> 00:28:46.670
like another father figure in Oscar's life. Um, he's the
563
00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:48.359
one who gives him a free drum when he finds
564
00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:51.619
out his drum was broken and the one who offers
565
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.559
to take him to London to like start over. And
566
00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:57.779
I thought, I just thought it was interesting that it's like,
567
00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:03.089
there's these, the, Jodorowsky is another one that did this
568
00:29:03.130 --> 00:29:06.210
all the time. Like mothers and fathers are all over
569
00:29:06.250 --> 00:29:06.750
his movies.
570
00:29:06.970 --> 00:29:07.869
Right. Oh yeah.
571
00:29:08.250 --> 00:29:10.329
And so I think Schlondorf here, well, I mean, granted
572
00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:13.339
it's from a novel, so maybe the author of the novel, but,
573
00:29:13.829 --> 00:29:15.970
It seems to me like there's an obsession with the
574
00:29:16.049 --> 00:29:19.359
father and the mother. So maybe the motherland, maybe the
575
00:29:19.420 --> 00:29:22.400
father is like the Fuhrer. I don't know. But the
576
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.279
other father is a Polish guy. And it just, in
577
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.680
my mind, that just has to represent the tension between
578
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:31.470
Germany and Poland leading up.
579
00:29:31.420 --> 00:29:33.750
To the war. Absolutely.
580
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:35.769
And one of those, you know, I mean, one of
581
00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:41.279
those two fathers is more passive and more gentle. The
582
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.460
other one is the one who's like literally toe fucking
583
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:47.019
her under the table while she's holding hands with the
584
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:50.480
more passive one. So, you know, there's an aggressive sort
585
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:52.779
of element there. So, yeah, I mean, you know, there's
586
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:58.140
there's literal outright blatant people in Nazi uniforms in this movie.
587
00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:00.089
But then there's also a lot of things that are
588
00:30:00.109 --> 00:30:05.140
supposed to represent both sides of that conflict. And in
589
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:09.119
the middle you have Oscar, this bizarre little fucking dwarf, who,
590
00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:14.420
as the movie progresses, gets into the parts that really, like,
591
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:17.200
all these things that are very strange are not what
592
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.200
caused any kind of commotion with this movie or any
593
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.220
sort of, like, controversy.
594
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:21.980
It was really once he meets Maria.
595
00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:26.349
So after his mom dies, after some time passes, They
596
00:30:26.369 --> 00:30:31.960
bring a 16-year-old girl who was 29 when she made
597
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.039
this or something. She was well into her adult years,
598
00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:39.869
just for what it's worth. But a 16-year-old girl into
599
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:41.910
the house to help around the shop and to help
600
00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:44.650
just around the house and stuff. So go ahead, Maria.
601
00:30:45.670 --> 00:30:49.990
Yeah, Maria. And like you just said, she's well into
602
00:30:50.029 --> 00:30:50.670
her adult years.
603
00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:52.930
She's playing a 16-year-old. You've got David Bennett, who's playing
604
00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:57.339
a 3-year-old and is actually 11. Three-year-old physically, you know,
605
00:30:57.799 --> 00:30:59.299
older than that mentally. I think at this point in
606
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.380
the story, he's essentially a grown man inside his mind,
607
00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:05.420
which is very weird.
608
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.900
And he falls in love with Maria.
609
00:31:11.109 --> 00:31:15.730
And there's a scene, there's this great scene where Oscar
610
00:31:15.789 --> 00:31:18.869
is licking, like, ice cream out of her belly button,
611
00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:23.450
which is kind of fucked up. And then, you know,
612
00:31:23.490 --> 00:31:28.970
there's some suggestion of sexual activity between the two of them. Um,
613
00:31:29.910 --> 00:31:33.490
nothing is shown, nothing graphic happens, but there's, it's definitely
614
00:31:33.529 --> 00:31:34.910
enough to like kind of put you off and make
615
00:31:34.930 --> 00:31:37.319
you feel uncomfortable, which is obviously the intention.
616
00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:42.059
Um, well, there's no doubt that they fuck in the
617
00:31:42.099 --> 00:31:43.019
movie because, Oh.
618
00:31:43.059 --> 00:31:44.079
They, they definitely have sex.
619
00:31:44.779 --> 00:31:45.119
Yeah.
620
00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:46.430
Yeah. We just don't see it.
621
00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:51.819
So, uh, I just don't want anybody listening to think like, listen,
622
00:31:52.099 --> 00:31:56.369
it's weird. So for me personally, I, I mean, I
623
00:31:56.410 --> 00:31:58.589
can't think of anybody that's like, yeah, I fucking love pedophilia.
624
00:31:58.990 --> 00:32:00.170
Aside from maybe Donald Trump.
625
00:32:00.329 --> 00:32:03.809
Sorry. I had to, man. I had to.
626
00:32:04.910 --> 00:32:08.349
But things like depictions of stuff like that in movies
627
00:32:08.529 --> 00:32:12.809
tend to really sort of. They're very repellent to me.
628
00:32:12.829 --> 00:32:17.509
I don't like movies where like kids are molested and
629
00:32:17.549 --> 00:32:19.230
things like that. Like there are some there are some
630
00:32:19.269 --> 00:32:22.619
good movies that have those elements in there. But here's
631
00:32:22.630 --> 00:32:23.059
a good example.
632
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:24.119
Right. Moonrise Kingdom.
633
00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:28.910
I think it's the worst Wes Anderson movie. It's, it's
634
00:32:29.130 --> 00:32:32.009
so fucking terrible. Not just for the scene that I
635
00:32:32.069 --> 00:32:34.289
hate more than anything, but like just in general, that
636
00:32:34.309 --> 00:32:37.289
movie sucks. But there's that one scene on the beach
637
00:32:37.329 --> 00:32:39.269
where the, the two kids are in like a tent
638
00:32:39.670 --> 00:32:41.990
and then they're like in their underwear dancing. And it's
639
00:32:42.009 --> 00:32:45.829
very like, it's, it's like too overly sexualized with.
640
00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:48.869
These young kids. And I remember watching in the theater
641
00:32:48.890 --> 00:32:51.630
and I was like, what the fuck? Yeah.
642
00:32:51.650 --> 00:32:52.130
That's weird.
643
00:32:53.369 --> 00:32:55.269
This did not make me feel that way.
644
00:32:55.539 --> 00:32:57.339
I did not feel any kind of way watching this
645
00:32:57.380 --> 00:33:01.960
where I was like grossed out because it's for somebody
646
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:07.640
with half a brain, uh, it's easy to see there's
647
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:11.440
distinctions here. Like there's, there's a more complex narrative. There's, there's,
648
00:33:12.339 --> 00:33:16.039
you know, uh, a lot of play. It's an artistic film. Uh,
649
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.059
and it just, it didn't, it didn't.
650
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:20.720
Bother me at all the way a lot of those
651
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:21.180
things do.
652
00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:24.240
So, I mean, I can see why some people at
653
00:33:24.259 --> 00:33:26.539
the time and maybe later, you know, if you have
654
00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:30.180
a very like puritanical view and you take everything literally,
655
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.700
I can see why you'd get upset. But I don't
656
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:35.720
think there's, I think it was all kind of a
657
00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:36.819
nothing burger with this movie.
658
00:33:37.299 --> 00:33:39.400
I think you could probably draw some parallels to the
659
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.019
rape scene in Irreversible in the sense that there's enough
660
00:33:43.059 --> 00:33:46.380
of a movie around it where it you're like, okay,
661
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:48.619
like the director probably went a little bit too far,
662
00:33:48.700 --> 00:33:50.869
but like, there's still a movie there.
663
00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:51.329
Right.
664
00:33:51.390 --> 00:33:53.009
It's not just purely exploitation.
665
00:33:53.829 --> 00:33:54.670
Well, thank you.
666
00:33:54.710 --> 00:33:56.369
That's, that's kind of what I was driving at. It's,
667
00:33:56.490 --> 00:33:59.450
it's not just, it's not just there for the sake
668
00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:02.609
of being there. It actually serves a purpose and, uh,
669
00:34:02.910 --> 00:34:07.460
and drives a narrative. Um, but yeah, so they definitely fuck. Um,
670
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:12.179
and he falls in love with her, but, uh, she's
671
00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:14.659
more of almost like a surrogate mother figure to him.
672
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:15.559
Yeah.
673
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:19.199
At least in her own mind. And she ends up,
674
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:22.780
she ends up getting involved with, who's she getting involved with?
675
00:34:22.820 --> 00:34:23.679
Is it Jan?
676
00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:26.980
So no. So yeah. So it was kind of an
677
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:31.380
important scene because he, like they go to this guy,
678
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.010
Alfred is going out of town for something, probably a
679
00:34:34.050 --> 00:34:34.570
Nazi rally.
680
00:34:34.610 --> 00:34:34.889
Who knows?
681
00:34:35.610 --> 00:34:38.630
And so he's like, go, go upstairs and sleep with Maria.
682
00:34:38.909 --> 00:34:41.110
Like meaning just like go to sleep with her.
683
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:42.000
Right.
684
00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:44.019
Because he thought he wanted his son to feel safe.
685
00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:46.960
So they get into their nasty games.
686
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:49.099
And then.
687
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.550
In the morning, what I felt was the morning or
688
00:34:54.590 --> 00:34:57.050
like within a couple of days, he walks into the
689
00:34:57.170 --> 00:35:00.210
room and he sees his dad just like plowing Maria.
690
00:35:00.789 --> 00:35:04.409
But not only is that happening, but she's like into it.
691
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:06.900
Oh, yeah. Because they have a relationship.
692
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.559
She literally gets into a relationship with him, which drives
693
00:35:10.619 --> 00:35:13.980
the whole sort of mother element even further, which you
694
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.070
can tell is kind of fucking with Oscar's brain a
695
00:35:16.090 --> 00:35:16.429
little bit.
696
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.110
Yeah. And she yells at him for never using a condom. Like,
697
00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:24.409
you're not careful. Something like that.
698
00:35:25.210 --> 00:35:28.389
She doesn't want to get pregnant, and he's all out
699
00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:30.429
pulling prey. Yeah.
700
00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:33.579
And it doesn't work, so she gets pregnant.
701
00:35:34.219 --> 00:35:37.920
Well, hold on. Why doesn't it work, Chris? You remember?
702
00:35:37.940 --> 00:35:39.280
Oh, my gosh.
703
00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:40.639
Because Oscar's a little prick.
704
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:41.739
Because he jumps on the back.
705
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:43.500
He's a vindictive little prick.
706
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:48.559
So he knows because, again, they're saying more and showing
707
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:51.050
more than they would in front of this kid if
708
00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:55.909
they realized who he is inside. And he knows that
709
00:35:56.010 --> 00:35:57.590
this is what this guy's doing.
710
00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:01.010
He's playing a dangerous game here. So he decides, all right,
711
00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:02.570
you know what? Fuck you. I'm going to get revenge.
712
00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:04.679
So he literally jumps on his back.
713
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.900
At the moment where he's about to climax and forces
714
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.510
them to get her pregnant.
715
00:36:09.969 --> 00:36:13.889
And it's very weird. It's such a bizarre scene.
716
00:36:15.869 --> 00:36:19.550
But then he, he sort of like fucks himself because not, well,
717
00:36:19.969 --> 00:36:22.409
I guess I should use different wording because of praising.
718
00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:28.179
Yeah. Praising. He, he does himself a disservice because this
719
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:29.280
is his revenge.
720
00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:29.539
Right.
721
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:33.090
But then now he has to literally be raised by the,
722
00:36:33.650 --> 00:36:36.380
with the woman he loves because he does love Maria.
723
00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:40.760
He's in love with her. Um, and now watches, she has, Oh,
724
00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:47.110
I get his brother, I guess. Um, and another child. So,
725
00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:51.110
you know, he kind of, oops, he goofed a little bit.
726
00:36:51.710 --> 00:36:59.420
Yeah. Yeah. So we, you know, there's this movie continually has, um,
727
00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:06.219
oscar i think is represented as somebody who number one
728
00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:09.360
can't get out of his own way but he's also
729
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:13.920
a vindictive person but he's also still a kid i
730
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:17.090
mean you know like even though he's.
731
00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:18.690
A coming of age story more than anything it's a.
732
00:37:18.670 --> 00:37:21.449
Coming of age story that's well said yeah exactly so
733
00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:24.670
he's still learning and like he just keeps having tragedy
734
00:37:24.730 --> 00:37:28.619
after tragedy like So, you know, he doesn't really want
735
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.320
his talent of being able to break glass with his
736
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:34.730
voice to be discovered. But then his life just falls
737
00:37:34.769 --> 00:37:38.730
to shit. And there's this really nice circus performer who's
738
00:37:38.769 --> 00:37:41.809
also a little person who's like, come join us. And
739
00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:43.349
so he does.
740
00:37:43.489 --> 00:37:45.849
I'm trying to remember what his name is. It begins
741
00:37:45.869 --> 00:37:48.230
with a B. It's like Egba or something like that.
742
00:37:48.889 --> 00:37:50.250
Yeah.
743
00:37:50.329 --> 00:37:50.530
Yeah.
744
00:37:50.570 --> 00:37:51.750
Bebra. Yeah.
745
00:37:51.809 --> 00:37:52.730
Bebra. That's what it's Bebra.
746
00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:58.250
Yeah, that's right. The second time he tries to court Oscar,
747
00:37:58.289 --> 00:38:01.150
there's somebody with him who becomes a love interest for
748
00:38:01.210 --> 00:38:08.010
Oscar named Roswitha. They go on and tour and he
749
00:38:08.050 --> 00:38:10.550
does great in the circus and he's building his kind
750
00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:15.260
of life there. Again, the war ruins everything for him.
751
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.860
He's an asshole, yes.
752
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.769
Well, I think it's not so much that he's an asshole. It's,
753
00:38:21.789 --> 00:38:24.769
he's a complicated character and he's a victim of circumstance.
754
00:38:24.789 --> 00:38:27.010
Like I said earlier, he's a, he's a product of
755
00:38:27.090 --> 00:38:31.039
his environment. He, he really was giving, he wasn't given
756
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.440
a shot right from the beginning. I mean, he's thrown
757
00:38:33.500 --> 00:38:38.019
into nothing but family chaos followed by, you know, political
758
00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:42.860
chaos and war. And he's really just trying to get by. And,
759
00:38:43.090 --> 00:38:46.030
and he's also his decision to stop growing. It seems
760
00:38:46.070 --> 00:38:51.989
like it's, I don't know if he, is unable to
761
00:38:52.050 --> 00:38:55.010
reverse that. To me, it seems like, I wonder if
762
00:38:55.070 --> 00:38:57.750
he at all regrets his decision as the movie progresses
763
00:38:57.889 --> 00:39:02.170
because he is ostracized because of his size. He's, he's
764
00:39:02.230 --> 00:39:06.369
pushed to the margins. And I know you were, you
765
00:39:06.389 --> 00:39:08.230
were driving towards something. I don't want to have interrupted you,
766
00:39:08.269 --> 00:39:13.449
but you mentioned Jodorowsky, this, this scene as things as Nazis,
767
00:39:13.730 --> 00:39:15.329
you know, in the war sort of fuck everything up
768
00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:18.659
for him at the circus. the circus scenes into the
769
00:39:18.699 --> 00:39:21.000
next scenes are what I feel like really are very,
770
00:39:22.219 --> 00:39:26.550
very Yodorovsky. Um, a lot of the imagery, a lot
771
00:39:26.610 --> 00:39:30.360
of like, just a lot of what happens. It, reminded
772
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.659
me so much of scenes from The Holy Mountain.
773
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:34.599
Sure.
774
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:40.639
And also... Yeah. That's right. But go ahead. You were
775
00:39:40.659 --> 00:39:41.469
driving towards something.
776
00:39:41.570 --> 00:39:44.769
No, it's well said. I mean, there is a lot
777
00:39:44.789 --> 00:39:47.150
to unpack in a two-hour, 15-minute movie.
778
00:39:47.750 --> 00:39:48.070
Mm-hmm.
779
00:39:48.429 --> 00:39:51.110
So... Like we could go, but I mean, I think
780
00:39:51.150 --> 00:39:55.789
the point is, you know, Oscar is a kid that
781
00:39:55.829 --> 00:39:58.130
never really had a chance. And I think what happens
782
00:39:58.289 --> 00:40:01.090
over the course of almost three hours is you just
783
00:40:01.170 --> 00:40:05.130
feel the weight of like coming up in that environment
784
00:40:05.710 --> 00:40:10.619
and how it, because Alfred, he wasn't never portrayed like
785
00:40:10.659 --> 00:40:11.380
he was selfish.
786
00:40:11.420 --> 00:40:11.659
Yes.
787
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:17.139
And, and he was somebody that was like self-serving, but,
788
00:40:18.260 --> 00:40:20.460
he did care for his son. Like you saw moments
789
00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:22.280
where he was really caring for his son and like
790
00:40:22.300 --> 00:40:24.889
came back for him and thought of him. So he
791
00:40:24.949 --> 00:40:27.210
wasn't totally evil. And that's what I think the movie
792
00:40:27.250 --> 00:40:30.550
does really well is that nobody in this movie is
793
00:40:30.809 --> 00:40:35.170
absolutely evil. But despite.
794
00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:37.269
Well, the Nazis might've been.
795
00:40:38.190 --> 00:40:41.789
The Nazis were. Yes. Yes.
796
00:40:42.130 --> 00:40:45.570
Careful, Chris. Careful. Yeah. Yeah.
797
00:40:45.610 --> 00:40:48.099
That's where I was going. Like, Like they, but like,
798
00:40:48.380 --> 00:40:51.199
but the, what was happening in Germany at the time,
799
00:40:51.219 --> 00:40:54.780
I think it kind of drags you through how just
800
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:57.699
complicated and fucked up it was to be in Germany
801
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.820
at that time. And I think the movie does that well.
802
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.809
Like it, it's just like an emotional weight to everything
803
00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:07.269
that happens. And it's like, nobody can get ahead and
804
00:41:07.289 --> 00:41:09.190
there's bread lines and they don't have food. And like,
805
00:41:09.710 --> 00:41:13.010
there's just, just obstacle after obstacle. And it's just not
806
00:41:13.150 --> 00:41:14.989
like the regime is just not working. And I think
807
00:41:15.349 --> 00:41:20.039
that's where, it's a nice like anti, you know, authoritarian
808
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:23.739
or anti totalitarian movie is that it just shows that like,
809
00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:24.780
it just doesn't work.
810
00:41:25.900 --> 00:41:27.380
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
811
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:31.199
Nothing goes well for anybody in this movie. And, and
812
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:33.320
that's what I, I do really like that. I like
813
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:36.829
that Oscar, they could have played or when, I mean, again,
814
00:41:36.849 --> 00:41:40.829
I haven't read the book, but in other folks hands,
815
00:41:40.869 --> 00:41:43.489
maybe this story would have been more sympathetic toward Oscar
816
00:41:44.369 --> 00:41:48.099
given his condition and stuff. But, Instead, they choose to
817
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.059
make him a very flawed character. This is not a
818
00:41:51.099 --> 00:41:59.960
hero's journey. He's sort of like the traditional literary unreliable
819
00:42:00.820 --> 00:42:06.780
narrator or unreliable observer. Whereas the character who we're following
820
00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:08.530
can't really be trusted.
821
00:42:11.150 --> 00:42:16.110
Because he is very manipulative. Now, I'm curious.
822
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:22.719
Because I had started the episode by saying this, does
823
00:42:22.780 --> 00:42:27.639
this movie fit the brain melt criteria?
824
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:28.639
What do you think?
825
00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:32.619
I'm going to argue no. What side are you taking?
826
00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:36.090
I'm honestly undecided, but I want to hear your argument,
827
00:42:37.250 --> 00:42:39.849
and then I will either counter or concede.
828
00:42:42.110 --> 00:42:47.210
I think that in the same way that Pasolini rarely
829
00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:52.630
shows up on these lists and, um, uh, Bunuel rarely
830
00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:53.929
shows up on these lists.
831
00:42:54.329 --> 00:42:54.489
Yep.
832
00:42:54.769 --> 00:42:57.690
I think there are certain directors that, that deal in
833
00:42:57.789 --> 00:43:01.579
surrealism and, and call bullshit out as bullshit.
834
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:02.519
Yeah.
835
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.139
In a very direct way. But the way that they
836
00:43:05.179 --> 00:43:11.199
go about it is, um, with the best writers, the
837
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:14.840
best actors, the best budgets, they, they go about it
838
00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:17.059
in a way where they're going for like, like they're
839
00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:19.679
making something that's meant to be remembered and they're doing
840
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:24.750
it for prestige and like for posterity. And I think
841
00:43:24.849 --> 00:43:30.130
that this movie fits more in that category because you
842
00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:33.610
could say that if you were to take away a
843
00:43:33.670 --> 00:43:38.550
few of the controversial elements, you could say that this
844
00:43:38.610 --> 00:43:42.409
is a, like the structure of this is a fairly
845
00:43:42.489 --> 00:43:45.880
standard coming of age story. Now, for all the reasons
846
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:48.199
that we've just spent for the last 40 minutes or whatever,
847
00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:54.159
it's not standard at all. But the Bones are like
848
00:43:54.219 --> 00:43:56.780
an Academy Award winning movie or like a Palme d'Or
849
00:43:56.820 --> 00:43:59.780
winning movie. So for me, the answer is no. But
850
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:00.619
I'd be curious what you think.
851
00:44:01.659 --> 00:44:06.860
No, I agree. So here's the thing. The original idea
852
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:11.690
of Brain Melt was just crazy shit, right? It was
853
00:44:11.710 --> 00:44:14.480
just crazy shit. Mulholland Drive was on there.
854
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:18.500
You know, a lot of very respected movies that are
855
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:21.239
just fucking weird were on there. And I've I've gone
856
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.360
through and I've whittled a lot of those off. For
857
00:44:25.420 --> 00:44:28.119
exactly the reason that you're saying, it's not it's not
858
00:44:28.179 --> 00:44:29.989
removing them and it's not saying that they don't fit
859
00:44:30.010 --> 00:44:34.650
the criteria because they're they won awards or for whatever reason.
860
00:44:34.670 --> 00:44:36.130
But you're right.
861
00:44:36.190 --> 00:44:40.000
The production value is very high in this movie. the
862
00:44:40.099 --> 00:44:43.900
writing is extremely high caliber. The actors are some of
863
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:49.280
the best of that era in those areas, right? I
864
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.460
would say rather than this being a brain melt movie,
865
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:56.300
this would have made more of a better champagne pairing.
866
00:44:56.340 --> 00:44:59.940
This is more of a canon film. Criterion had recognized
867
00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:05.519
this early on in their DVD era. So although it
868
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:09.139
does have plenty of the brain melt elements, it's not
869
00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:14.409
outsider art it's might not be fully mainstream but it's
870
00:45:14.610 --> 00:45:17.769
it's you know it's in the collective conscious it's in
871
00:45:17.949 --> 00:45:21.400
sort of like art house and and so yeah I
872
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:24.719
think it doesn't necessarily fit although I'm extremely glad that
873
00:45:24.739 --> 00:45:27.679
we that we did it but this this is something
874
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:29.320
exciting right this is a first for us this is
875
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:31.960
the first time we've chosen a movie that we kind
876
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.820
of evaluated a little bit differently and said like this
877
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:40.869
is I don't want to say is elevated beyond what
878
00:45:40.909 --> 00:45:42.969
brain melt is because I think a lot of the
879
00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:44.090
movies on that list are phenomenal.
880
00:45:44.610 --> 00:45:44.809
Yeah.
881
00:45:45.590 --> 00:45:48.519
But yeah, no. So I'm going to go ahead and say, no,
882
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:48.940
I agree.
883
00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:55.280
Okay. What was for the sake of, because we do
884
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:59.280
this anyways, what was your champagne pairing? I'll end on
885
00:45:59.300 --> 00:46:02.300
this one. And then for the next movie we can
886
00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:06.360
switch and you can do it.
887
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:07.480
Yeah, for sure.
888
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.940
So I went with a totally basic ass. I feel
889
00:46:10.980 --> 00:46:13.699
like my choice was so on the nose, but maybe not.
890
00:46:14.730 --> 00:46:19.349
I went with Come and See. And the reason was
891
00:46:19.590 --> 00:46:22.289
not just because it was like, there's so many.
892
00:46:22.190 --> 00:46:22.690
Reasons, right?
893
00:46:22.849 --> 00:46:25.489
One is both movies told from the point of view
894
00:46:25.869 --> 00:46:33.559
of small characters. But one is an adult in the
895
00:46:33.619 --> 00:46:37.280
body of a child. The other one is who's chosen
896
00:46:37.300 --> 00:46:39.239
to live in a child's body. The other one is
897
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:43.090
a child who's forced to essentially like face horrors that
898
00:46:43.829 --> 00:46:48.690
not even grown adults should face and grow up faster
899
00:46:48.710 --> 00:46:53.650
than he needed to. You've got an interesting sort of
900
00:46:54.300 --> 00:47:00.059
duality here where Oscar ends up working to entertain Nazis
901
00:47:00.579 --> 00:47:03.440
and sort of like uses that as his way of
902
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:08.539
surviving amongst them. Whereas in come and see your main character, uh,
903
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:15.719
is essentially dramatized beyond belief and then helps in eradicating
904
00:47:15.780 --> 00:47:19.530
the group of people who have tormented him. Uh, so they,
905
00:47:19.650 --> 00:47:21.750
they sort of play very well off each other, I think.
906
00:47:21.849 --> 00:47:24.630
And they're both extremely chaotic. And I think if you
907
00:47:24.670 --> 00:47:26.829
watch both of them together as a double feature, you're
908
00:47:26.849 --> 00:47:27.989
going to have a fucking terrible night.
909
00:47:28.070 --> 00:47:31.739
I'm sorry. It's going to be a long night.
910
00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:33.239
It's you're going to, you're going to need to watch
911
00:47:33.260 --> 00:47:34.800
another book cartoons for the next two weeks.
912
00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:37.679
You know what? I've never seen Come and See before.
913
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:38.940
Oh, my God.
914
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:40.360
I know. I know.
915
00:47:41.139 --> 00:47:42.539
Chris, you're blowing my mind right now. Well, you have
916
00:47:42.579 --> 00:47:45.639
to because it is one of the best movies ever made.
917
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:47.840
And I probably say that about everything, but it truly
918
00:47:47.900 --> 00:47:54.610
is just one of the most harrowing, deeply unsettling and
919
00:47:55.190 --> 00:47:57.250
disturbing movies I've ever seen.
920
00:47:58.070 --> 00:48:00.429
No, there's no reason why. I just haven't got to it,
921
00:48:00.449 --> 00:48:02.530
but I will try to prioritize it.
922
00:48:02.670 --> 00:48:04.809
Stop being a little bitch and watch Come and See.
923
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:08.530
Uh, okay. Just kidding.
924
00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:09.690
I'm just kidding.
925
00:48:09.769 --> 00:48:14.650
No, I know. Um, there, the, the theme that if
926
00:48:14.690 --> 00:48:16.650
I were to pick like one theme that, that kind
927
00:48:16.670 --> 00:48:18.289
of stood out to me in the tin drum, it
928
00:48:18.389 --> 00:48:23.480
was this idea of like, um, arrested development where you
929
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:28.880
have these external forces coming in. Totalitarianism just like suspends
930
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.760
the development of a, of an entire nation. And, and
931
00:48:32.780 --> 00:48:34.519
you were seeing it now in the U S I mean, again,
932
00:48:34.539 --> 00:48:36.690
I know this is not a political show, But there
933
00:48:36.710 --> 00:48:39.989
are people that, like, if you really ask five questions,
934
00:48:40.050 --> 00:48:43.489
MAGA doesn't even make sense, right? Like, when was America great?
935
00:48:43.570 --> 00:48:47.130
What was great about it? Like, nobody knows. It's just
936
00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:49.090
like this ambiguous thing where it's just like, well, we
937
00:48:49.130 --> 00:48:49.750
want it to be great.
938
00:48:49.769 --> 00:48:50.889
It's just rah-rah jingoism.
939
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:55.820
Yes. And so, again, I don't mean this in any, well,
940
00:48:56.030 --> 00:48:57.300
I guess I do mean it in a political way,
941
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:58.889
but I don't mean to go too far down into it.
942
00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:01.599
Just saying that this is what happens when you have
943
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.500
fascism take over a country is that this is the playbook, right?
944
00:49:06.550 --> 00:49:09.730
You get behind a couple of slogans that just emotionally
945
00:49:09.829 --> 00:49:11.880
feel good when you say it and like sort of
946
00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:15.280
feel right to you and you don't really ask any
947
00:49:15.340 --> 00:49:17.489
questions about it. And there's another movie that does this
948
00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:22.909
very well. I did not like Fellini's Amarcord at all
949
00:49:22.949 --> 00:49:26.579
the first time I saw it but I read a
950
00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:31.780
essay that just talked about how much he was exposing
951
00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:37.179
how fascism arrests the development of a whole nation and
952
00:49:37.219 --> 00:49:39.619
I watched it again under that lens and it became
953
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.630
like a top 20 movie for me. Like I, I
954
00:49:42.690 --> 00:49:44.409
see what he was trying to do. And he, it's like,
955
00:49:44.530 --> 00:49:46.619
everything just is different when you kind of watch it
956
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.179
through that lens. And to me, it's like the perfect
957
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:52.260
pairing with this. Cause it's about what Italy was going
958
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.300
through at that time versus when Tindrum is what, you know,
959
00:49:55.340 --> 00:49:56.179
Germany was going through.
960
00:49:57.019 --> 00:49:57.199
Yep.
961
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:02.699
No, that's great. I have seen Amarcord. I don't remember
962
00:50:02.860 --> 00:50:04.900
anything about it. I don't remember if I liked it,
963
00:50:05.010 --> 00:50:10.590
if I disliked it, I watched it. when I first
964
00:50:11.289 --> 00:50:18.389
was discovering Fellini. That's probably why I don't remember, to
965
00:50:18.409 --> 00:50:19.889
be honest with you, because when it comes to Fellini,
966
00:50:20.650 --> 00:50:25.550
I'm much more of like an eight-and-a-half, La Strada type person.
967
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.559
I do want to go through and watch a.
968
00:50:30.380 --> 00:50:32.440
Lot more and revisit a lot of that stuff, so
969
00:50:32.500 --> 00:50:36.420
I don't really remember Amarcord, but you comparing it in
970
00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:38.500
that way makes me really want to go back and
971
00:50:38.539 --> 00:50:40.519
revisit anything.
972
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:43.820
So I could talk for two hours on Fellini. I'm
973
00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:46.679
obsessed with him as a director, but eight and a
974
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:48.579
half was like a turning point in his career where
975
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:50.780
he was like, I'm done making the movies for you.
976
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.110
I'm making the movies for me. And everything after eight
977
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.010
and a half is just like this glorious madman. It's
978
00:50:57.050 --> 00:51:02.070
just like unhinged. Like I, I love his late career
979
00:51:02.110 --> 00:51:05.190
stuff a lot, but that's a different podcast.
980
00:51:05.969 --> 00:51:08.869
No, I really, I really need to dive deeper. I mean,
981
00:51:08.889 --> 00:51:12.690
I've seen, it's funny because you can say you've seen
982
00:51:12.730 --> 00:51:14.780
movies from a director, but if you saw them 20,
983
00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:17.510
25 years ago and you never revisited them and you
984
00:51:17.550 --> 00:51:22.019
watch them in this sort of like binge of a director,
985
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:25.320
what I did, it's hard for anything to really stand out.
986
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:27.840
But for me, what stood out more was eight and
987
00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:30.059
a half was like a, like a.
988
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:31.639
Defining movie for me. Right.
989
00:51:31.699 --> 00:51:35.420
Like that right up there with, like Persona, Stalker, Eight
990
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:38.659
and a Half, and like Ahasard Balthazar. Those for me
991
00:51:38.699 --> 00:51:42.659
are like, those are the four pivotal movies that really
992
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:44.690
changed the way I look.
993
00:51:44.530 --> 00:51:45.090
At that film.
994
00:51:45.610 --> 00:51:47.150
That's awesome.
995
00:51:47.329 --> 00:51:51.170
So Fellini, although I'm not a Fellini scholar, he's extremely
996
00:51:51.210 --> 00:51:53.190
important for my journey.
997
00:51:53.530 --> 00:51:55.510
So I will definitely go rewatch Amacord.
998
00:51:55.530 --> 00:51:58.239
Dude, that literally, you couldn't have set that up better
999
00:51:58.300 --> 00:52:00.380
because if you had to pick a fifth movie to
1000
00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:04.239
add to that foundational list, I think you would choose
1001
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:05.760
the movie that we're going to talk about next.
1002
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:10.219
Oh, my God. Can I introduce it? I've been waiting
1003
00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:11.320
to introduce this movie.
1004
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:13.559
You think I would take this from you? Are you kidding?
1005
00:52:13.579 --> 00:52:19.000
I don't hate you. Not yet. All right, here we go.
1006
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.639
So we're going to take a hard left here. Not
1007
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:30.710
necessarily into happier territory, but into different territory. So I'm
1008
00:52:30.730 --> 00:52:31.710
going to set the scene.
1009
00:52:32.500 --> 00:52:32.679
Year.
1010
00:52:32.860 --> 00:52:36.280
So I don't know what year it was. I mean,
1011
00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:39.820
I was 17 years old. So what was that?
1012
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:42.670
Uh, 98. So it was 1998.
1013
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:45.559
I was hanging out with my two best friends at
1014
00:52:45.579 --> 00:52:48.219
the time, Pat and Eric, and we decided to go
1015
00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:51.559
rent some movies. So we went to a Hollywood video
1016
00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:55.559
cause we didn't have a blockbuster around. And, uh, we
1017
00:52:55.579 --> 00:52:57.880
would always just go and peruse the shelves and just
1018
00:52:58.099 --> 00:53:01.639
rent whatever like full moon movie we hadn't seen, like whatever, uh,
1019
00:53:02.070 --> 00:53:06.389
cover looked hilarious and for whatever reason i don't even
1020
00:53:06.409 --> 00:53:08.610
think it was my choice i think it was um
1021
00:53:09.429 --> 00:53:10.750
one of it was definitely one of their choice i
1022
00:53:10.750 --> 00:53:15.429
don't remember which one they chose this movie secret adventures
1023
00:53:15.469 --> 00:53:18.170
of tom thumb now you hear that title that sounds
1024
00:53:18.190 --> 00:53:19.969
like a kid's movie right like this sounds like a
1025
00:53:20.030 --> 00:53:22.489
kid's fairy tale movie and you look at the cover
1026
00:53:23.139 --> 00:53:26.019
and um if you're listening pull your pull out your
1027
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:27.199
phone do whatever.
1028
00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:31.159
Like look up this cover it's it's this i don't know.
1029
00:53:31.469 --> 00:53:35.369
Eastern european looking guy leaning in on a table and
1030
00:53:35.389 --> 00:53:39.510
this little claymation bald character standing on the table in
1031
00:53:39.550 --> 00:53:42.599
front of him there's something sort of odd about it
1032
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.159
but you can't really put your finger on it um
1033
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.980
font is in like blood cherry red so the background
1034
00:53:50.019 --> 00:53:53.860
is all black around it so it sort of gives
1035
00:53:53.900 --> 00:53:56.059
you a vibe but it's hard to like really pin
1036
00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:59.980
down so we rented this movie And we got back
1037
00:54:00.019 --> 00:54:03.179
and we watched it at Chad's house. And when it ended,
1038
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:07.429
like we could not have all had more different, um,
1039
00:54:08.130 --> 00:54:09.389
react reactions to this movie.
1040
00:54:09.409 --> 00:54:15.590
Right. So, uh, Chad was like completely couldn't have cared less.
1041
00:54:15.630 --> 00:54:17.170
He was like, eh, all right. It was whatever.
1042
00:54:17.449 --> 00:54:22.219
Like dad, no opinion whatsoever. Eric fucking hated this movie.
1043
00:54:22.340 --> 00:54:25.000
He was like, see, he was, I remember he was
1044
00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:27.360
mad that we had wasted. Now this movie is not
1045
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:28.059
even an hour long.
1046
00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:28.579
It's like 57 minutes.
1047
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:35.400
Eric was mad that we watched that like.
1048
00:54:33.579 --> 00:54:39.159
He was literally pissed off and i was just i
1049
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:40.579
was just struck.
1050
00:54:40.300 --> 00:54:44.219
Dumb by how incredible this movie was um i fell
1051
00:54:44.659 --> 00:54:47.090
absolutely head over heels in love with this movie now
1052
00:54:47.090 --> 00:54:51.510
17 this was still about two years out from i
1053
00:54:52.510 --> 00:54:53.570
don't know what you want to call it we all
1054
00:54:53.750 --> 00:54:56.269
had that like that awakening to when you know we
1055
00:54:56.309 --> 00:55:01.659
went from just watching ghostbusters and the matrix to discovering film.
1056
00:55:02.289 --> 00:55:02.469
Right.
1057
00:55:02.929 --> 00:55:06.409
Um, not to sound too fart sniffy, but this, this
1058
00:55:06.530 --> 00:55:09.809
predates my sort of awakening. Um, cause I was 19
1059
00:55:09.809 --> 00:55:12.889
when I first bought, um, seven seal, which was my
1060
00:55:12.969 --> 00:55:17.539
first criterion DVD. And I had no fucking idea what
1061
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:18.280
I was getting myself into.
1062
00:55:19.300 --> 00:55:20.940
Um, but this is one.
1063
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:25.440
Of those movies from that period that transcended and carried over. Um,
1064
00:55:28.219 --> 00:55:31.800
into and fit fully perfectly into, you know, uh, the
1065
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:33.500
rest of my life. And I have loved this movie
1066
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:33.940
ever since.
1067
00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:39.989
And that was almost 30 years ago, right. Which Jesus Christ. Um,
1068
00:55:41.849 --> 00:55:42.829
and I bought the DVD.
1069
00:55:42.869 --> 00:55:46.150
I have the VHS, like it needs, it desperately needs
1070
00:55:46.929 --> 00:55:51.110
some awesome label to, to do like a really nice
1071
00:55:51.610 --> 00:55:52.730
Blu-ray or 4k of it.
1072
00:55:52.780 --> 00:55:55.559
I would love that so much. But anyway, so that
1073
00:55:55.579 --> 00:55:56.699
was how I came to this movie.
1074
00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:00.400
And I've been trying to get people into this movie
1075
00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:02.519
literally my entire adult life.
1076
00:56:02.980 --> 00:56:09.579
And I have failed at every turn. Maybe until now.
1077
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.630
I'm so glad you did. Here's what I'll just say
1078
00:56:13.670 --> 00:56:16.550
at the top before we get into it. There are
1079
00:56:16.710 --> 00:56:21.880
certain movies for me that as I'm watching them, I
1080
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:24.440
can't help but kind of detach from the movie itself
1081
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:29.019
and put my mind in or think about the mind
1082
00:56:29.059 --> 00:56:33.840
of the creator of the movie. And Dave Borthwick, I'm
1083
00:56:33.889 --> 00:56:35.869
sure you said his name, I can't remember, but this
1084
00:56:35.909 --> 00:56:41.269
guy Dave Borthwick, this is such an unbelievable passion project.
1085
00:56:42.349 --> 00:56:44.670
And I don't even know anything about the guy. I'm
1086
00:56:44.690 --> 00:56:47.579
not coming from that angle. But It's just clear in
1087
00:56:47.619 --> 00:56:50.400
every scene. He made a decision not only to have
1088
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:55.760
stop animation for Tom Thumb, which we'll get into, which
1089
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:58.570
is more of an animated character, but when there's humans,
1090
00:56:58.969 --> 00:57:01.030
he uses stop motion for them as well.
1091
00:57:02.650 --> 00:57:08.949
Yes, it's a process called pixelation. I didn't know this
1092
00:57:09.030 --> 00:57:13.730
until I started doing research for this. I always just
1093
00:57:13.769 --> 00:57:16.820
assumed it was stop motion, but it's called pixelation when
1094
00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:18.920
you're doing it with humans, but it's essentially the exact
1095
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:23.320
same thing. It's instead of photographing them or filming them
1096
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:26.570
at 24 frames per second, you're literally doing like still
1097
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:31.250
frames for each like movement. So when you think that
1098
00:57:31.349 --> 00:57:33.530
no wonder this movie is only 57 minutes because every
1099
00:57:33.710 --> 00:57:37.010
actor in it, it was, was either painstakingly claymation, uh,
1100
00:57:37.070 --> 00:57:41.880
stop motion or the humans were shot one frame at
1101
00:57:41.889 --> 00:57:46.989
a time. And, uh, and had to give performances and, and,
1102
00:57:47.230 --> 00:57:49.389
and make these facial expressions and stuff.
1103
00:57:49.429 --> 00:57:53.190
So it's kind of a miracle that this movie was made.
1104
00:57:54.309 --> 00:57:58.070
Yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly it. Like, how do you
1105
00:57:58.369 --> 00:58:03.250
carry a conversation when you're having to stop every like
1106
00:58:03.409 --> 00:58:04.369
one 24th of a second?
1107
00:58:04.389 --> 00:58:08.389
Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, all right now move your mouth
1108
00:58:08.429 --> 00:58:10.460
a tiny bit. Click. Okay. Now move a little bit. Click.
1109
00:58:10.699 --> 00:58:12.780
It's like, that's gotta be very painstaking.
1110
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:18.829
Crazy. And so like this, I just, well, Oh darn.
1111
00:58:18.849 --> 00:58:21.489
I almost gave away my, my champagne pairing, but there's just,
1112
00:58:21.949 --> 00:58:25.150
there's certain movies where you're just watching and you're like, Oh,
1113
00:58:25.170 --> 00:58:30.820
I like this movie is great. And I, I don't
1114
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:32.800
mean to say that I'm detaching myself from whether or
1115
00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:35.559
not I liked it. I'm not quite to that level,
1116
00:58:36.099 --> 00:58:40.039
but I'm just saying like, this is why, this is
1117
00:58:40.219 --> 00:58:43.750
why we're championing this kind of art. Like, like this
1118
00:58:43.789 --> 00:58:47.500
was a passion project to an nth degree. And this,
1119
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:49.519
you know, this is, this is something that this guy
1120
00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:53.280
had deep inside of him to tell this story. It
1121
00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:55.739
just felt so personal. And I, and I really felt
1122
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.119
like warmth and I ended up watching it twice because
1123
00:58:58.159 --> 00:58:58.519
it's short.
1124
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:02.690
Yeah, no, it's, I watched it three times getting ready
1125
00:59:02.730 --> 00:59:02.989
for this.
1126
00:59:03.289 --> 00:59:06.090
And I mean, three times is, you know, I mean,
1127
00:59:06.730 --> 00:59:09.309
I've watched this movie so many times over the years because,
1128
00:59:10.230 --> 00:59:14.269
it is, it's, it's short and it goes, it flies
1129
00:59:14.329 --> 00:59:17.809
by in my opinion. There's so much visually going on
1130
00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:21.739
in this movie that I feel like almost every time
1131
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:25.300
I watch it, I catch a new insect in the background,
1132
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:29.179
which we'll talk more about or a different detail that
1133
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:35.179
I hadn't before. but it's not a complicated movie by
1134
00:59:35.260 --> 00:59:38.840
any means it's essentially I don't know if everybody listening
1135
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:43.880
knows the Tom Thumb story but it takes the idea
1136
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:49.619
of that fairy tale and completely flips it and turns
1137
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:58.530
it into something darker and more disturbing this movie's got
1138
00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:01.550
a lot to say in a short run time Um,
1139
01:00:01.670 --> 01:00:03.170
so I don't know. Do you want to set up
1140
01:00:03.190 --> 01:00:04.530
the premise? Do you want to talk about the opening?
1141
01:00:05.090 --> 01:00:05.469
Sure.
1142
01:00:05.789 --> 01:00:09.269
Um, so, well, okay. Yeah, sure. Going back to the
1143
01:00:09.329 --> 01:00:15.489
opening scene. So, um, we start in this, what, what
1144
01:00:16.150 --> 01:00:19.230
ends up becoming kind of like a factory setting. Um,
1145
01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:22.409
but it zooms in a lot to just some, you know,
1146
01:00:22.469 --> 01:00:27.969
baby in uterus. Uh, and we don't find out till
1147
01:00:28.340 --> 01:00:33.280
later that it's more of like a, factory birth. But
1148
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:35.639
then there's a confusing part for me that maybe you
1149
01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:39.190
can help understand, but it goes from this sort of
1150
01:00:39.230 --> 01:00:43.170
factory setting, conveyor belts and babies that are getting inseminated
1151
01:00:43.230 --> 01:00:50.670
through actual inseminating fluid that's pushed into this uterus. But
1152
01:00:50.690 --> 01:00:54.250
then when the baby's born, it's born through a woman.
1153
01:00:54.309 --> 01:00:58.400
So I don't know if that's just like in Borthwick's world,
1154
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:00.590
like there's a baby factory and they're kind of like
1155
01:01:00.619 --> 01:01:03.389
put into the mother, or if he's just giving his
1156
01:01:03.469 --> 01:01:05.269
view of like, this is how babies are made. I
1157
01:01:05.510 --> 01:01:08.349
don't know, like if it's metaphorical or if it's meant
1158
01:01:08.369 --> 01:01:11.230
to be, cause you know, science labs play a role
1159
01:01:11.269 --> 01:01:14.280
later in the movie too. But that was one gap
1160
01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:15.760
I had. I don't know if you know, like how
1161
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:16.880
those two are connected, but.
1162
01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:19.940
Well, I've, so I've done a lot of reading over
1163
01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:21.579
the years to try to figure out, like, I can't
1164
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:23.960
really find much that Dave Borthwick has ever really said
1165
01:01:23.980 --> 01:01:28.530
to kind of give away, you the story and everything
1166
01:01:28.550 --> 01:01:31.630
of this, the way I've always seen it was, yeah,
1167
01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:34.429
you start in this factory set. Well, it's, it's, but
1168
01:01:34.449 --> 01:01:38.269
it's odd because you start in utero with Tom and
1169
01:01:38.329 --> 01:01:40.690
then you cut to, I think it's, and then you
1170
01:01:40.710 --> 01:01:43.309
cut to the factory and you see all these jars
1171
01:01:43.369 --> 01:01:47.320
being inseminated basically on a conveyor belt and there's no
1172
01:01:47.360 --> 01:01:50.980
humans around. It's all just very cold machinery, you know,
1173
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:57.179
a laboratory. And then as these, jars are being inseminated,
1174
01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:00.599
a fly, a giant fly lands on one of the
1175
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:04.400
mechanisms on the tubes that are shooting the goo into
1176
01:02:04.420 --> 01:02:08.260
the jars and ends up getting crushed under the gears.
1177
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:12.809
And it's very gooey and yucky, which kind of fucks
1178
01:02:12.849 --> 01:02:16.170
up the machinery. And then it sort of like, for
1179
01:02:16.190 --> 01:02:18.369
whatever reason, the goo that's supposed to come out white
1180
01:02:18.570 --> 01:02:21.789
in the jar comes out greenish. So I always just
1181
01:02:21.809 --> 01:02:25.309
sort of assumed that that was a goof on the
1182
01:02:25.349 --> 01:02:26.010
part of.
1183
01:02:28.110 --> 01:02:29.239
The insemination machine.
1184
01:02:29.260 --> 01:02:35.809
And then the, the, Tom's mother was probably artificially inseminated
1185
01:02:35.889 --> 01:02:37.889
because you know, this world is sort of, there's a
1186
01:02:37.929 --> 01:02:41.519
lot of decay. Everything's very run down and industrialized and
1187
01:02:41.539 --> 01:02:42.039
kind of gross.
1188
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:43.000
Who knows?
1189
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:47.360
Maybe, maybe pollution has caused, you know, infertility. Um, people
1190
01:02:47.380 --> 01:02:49.679
can't have babies the way they used to, or maybe
1191
01:02:50.059 --> 01:02:52.250
there's a lot of fascist sort of elements in this movie.
1192
01:02:52.269 --> 01:02:55.800
So maybe the government is trying to control births and, uh,
1193
01:02:58.139 --> 01:02:59.940
And I always just saw it as like, Tom is
1194
01:03:00.019 --> 01:03:03.139
born different because of that fuck up at the plant.
1195
01:03:05.059 --> 01:03:06.960
And just to me, that's sort of a play on
1196
01:03:06.980 --> 01:03:07.639
the way.
1197
01:03:09.909 --> 01:03:14.050
Genetic engineering isn't without its faults and without its dangers
1198
01:03:14.110 --> 01:03:17.110
and stuff like that. So, I mean, Dave Borthwick obviously
1199
01:03:17.150 --> 01:03:19.489
had a lot to say in this movie, but he didn't,
1200
01:03:20.690 --> 01:03:23.699
he didn't give us any exposition because there's almost no
1201
01:03:23.980 --> 01:03:26.500
actual language in this movie. I think there's maybe like,
1202
01:03:27.260 --> 01:03:30.800
three lines of intelligible dialogue throughout the whole movie. Yeah,
1203
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:36.230
after we exit the weird insemination plant, which I think
1204
01:03:36.269 --> 01:03:38.230
is important at the beginning because it sets up this
1205
01:03:38.329 --> 01:03:43.690
sort of fairytale world where instead of a normal forest
1206
01:03:43.750 --> 01:03:45.469
or castles and stuff like that, what we have is
1207
01:03:45.849 --> 01:03:52.699
run down Eastern European looking decrepit cities or streets and
1208
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:56.840
neighborhoods mixed with sort of industrialized.
1209
01:03:57.980 --> 01:04:04.739
Um, debris and laboratories. So it's all very, um, it's oppressive.
1210
01:04:04.780 --> 01:04:07.389
It's a very oppressive atmosphere in this movie, um, because
1211
01:04:07.409 --> 01:04:12.650
you're either in really squalid surroundings or you're in these
1212
01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:17.610
very cold clinical sort of machine type buildings, whether they
1213
01:04:17.630 --> 01:04:21.829
almost feel like a mixture of like slaughterhouse factory and
1214
01:04:21.929 --> 01:04:22.610
like laboratory.
1215
01:04:22.949 --> 01:04:24.329
I've got a question for you on this. I don't
1216
01:04:24.349 --> 01:04:27.059
mean to interrupt you. Please don't lose your train of thought. No,
1217
01:04:28.059 --> 01:04:32.719
So Borthwick was creating a studio, right? Like an animation studio, right?
1218
01:04:32.739 --> 01:04:34.590
Yeah, Bullock Brothers.
1219
01:04:34.969 --> 01:04:37.429
Yes. Something that Crispin Glover would have loved.
1220
01:04:38.750 --> 01:04:39.949
Absolutely.
1221
01:04:40.510 --> 01:04:43.369
But I was trying to figure out, because of the
1222
01:04:43.409 --> 01:04:45.590
way that they shot this movie, the pixelated style they
1223
01:04:45.610 --> 01:04:49.219
shot it in, was this, when they shot a lot
1224
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:53.639
of this dilapidated housing and stuff, was it like a
1225
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.329
miniature set? Was it like a full-size set? Um, like,
1226
01:04:58.349 --> 01:05:00.710
did you ever, uh, like I was trying to kind
1227
01:05:00.750 --> 01:05:03.550
of piece together, like, was there matte paintings anywhere? Like,
1228
01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:07.619
it felt like a lot of it was, um, a
1229
01:05:07.699 --> 01:05:10.179
set that they kind of recreated to make look real.
1230
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:14.460
Like everything was full size and it just had a
1231
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:16.860
little bit of a altered reality look to it because
1232
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:18.880
of the clay and because of the, like the way
1233
01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:22.619
that they shot it. But is that your reading? If, yeah.
1234
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:25.659
So there's a lot of matte paintings. There's a lot of, um,
1235
01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:28.019
like sets and stuff.
1236
01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:30.260
I don't think any of these, these locations are actually
1237
01:05:30.340 --> 01:05:34.820
like interiors of houses and stuff. And if you, if
1238
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:36.199
you go back and rewatch it, I know you said
1239
01:05:36.219 --> 01:05:39.719
you watched it twice, really pay attention to scale and, um,
1240
01:05:40.739 --> 01:05:45.010
everything feels wrong to a degree in scale. So there's that,
1241
01:05:45.110 --> 01:05:48.989
there's that great scene when Tom's father, um, we're jumping
1242
01:05:49.010 --> 01:05:51.929
slightly ahead here, but Tom's dad goes out into the
1243
01:05:51.969 --> 01:05:53.900
neighborhood and, Cause he's going to go down to the
1244
01:05:53.940 --> 01:05:56.480
local toy store to, uh, dig through their trash to
1245
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:58.989
find some doll clothes for him. And if you look
1246
01:05:59.050 --> 01:06:00.869
back at that scene, it's supposed to be all like
1247
01:06:00.949 --> 01:06:03.269
brick buildings and stuff, but all of the, all the
1248
01:06:03.329 --> 01:06:06.670
doorways and the awnings are sort of like not quite
1249
01:06:06.690 --> 01:06:07.829
to the degree of like.
1250
01:06:07.690 --> 01:06:10.070
Something like, um, the cabinet of cabinet of Dr.
1251
01:06:10.090 --> 01:06:15.019
Caligari, but everything's sort of like angled slightly odd and, um,
1252
01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:17.519
things are a little too close.
1253
01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:22.920
So it's this very claustrophobic feel. Um, and, uh, yeah.
1254
01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:26.900
So everything's made to be sort of strange scale, um,
1255
01:06:27.059 --> 01:06:29.179
which I think plays with the whole idea of Tom
1256
01:06:29.699 --> 01:06:34.010
being this tiny, tiny little character and everything around him
1257
01:06:34.090 --> 01:06:36.570
is just large and imposing and scary.
1258
01:06:36.909 --> 01:06:41.829
But there's this really great moment. Um, after that scene, um,
1259
01:06:42.070 --> 01:06:42.409
I don't.
1260
01:06:42.309 --> 01:06:46.340
Know if you remember, but he's, he finds the toy
1261
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:48.519
store on the corner and he digs through the trash
1262
01:06:48.860 --> 01:06:52.150
and finds, um, like a little box with a bunch
1263
01:06:52.170 --> 01:06:54.190
of doll clothes and stuff. And that's the first time
1264
01:06:54.230 --> 01:06:56.639
we see one of these strange sort of, uh, I
1265
01:06:57.340 --> 01:06:58.960
don't know if they're supposed to look like sort of like,
1266
01:06:59.579 --> 01:07:01.280
it almost looked like a mixture of like those, like,
1267
01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:06.719
like FBI G men, uh, mixed with sort of like, um,
1268
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:11.699
Nazi Gestapo sort of like long black coat, Yeah.
1269
01:07:11.739 --> 01:07:13.469
Very kind of who framed Roger Rabbit.
1270
01:07:13.769 --> 01:07:14.469
Yeah. Yeah.
1271
01:07:14.510 --> 01:07:17.610
Very, very doom. Yeah.
1272
01:07:17.710 --> 01:07:20.010
Their eyes are always hidden in shadow by the brim
1273
01:07:20.030 --> 01:07:20.590
of their hat.
1274
01:07:20.869 --> 01:07:21.269
Yeah.
1275
01:07:22.369 --> 01:07:22.969
They.
1276
01:07:24.510 --> 01:07:25.030
Kidnap him.
1277
01:07:25.110 --> 01:07:27.650
Oh, it's after it's after they come and kidnap Tom. Now,
1278
01:07:27.829 --> 01:07:29.590
I don't want to jump too far ahead, but remind
1279
01:07:29.610 --> 01:07:32.570
me to get back on this. So what I was
1280
01:07:32.610 --> 01:07:35.269
saying about that, there's this one great moment the first
1281
01:07:35.309 --> 01:07:38.869
time we see Tom's family. is this rock gets thrown
1282
01:07:38.889 --> 01:07:41.329
through their window, but you fly through their window as
1283
01:07:41.590 --> 01:07:42.969
it's like a POV shot of the rock.
1284
01:07:43.630 --> 01:07:44.750
But the rock is actually this.
1285
01:07:44.670 --> 01:07:48.429
Little like slab with like tentacles and little like limbs
1286
01:07:49.230 --> 01:07:51.510
all like wriggling on it. And I think there's like
1287
01:07:51.530 --> 01:07:54.469
a little head there too. And it's like making just
1288
01:07:54.530 --> 01:08:00.130
the saddest little like whimpery, like screeching sound. And Tom's parents,
1289
01:08:00.190 --> 01:08:01.809
Tom's dad just kind of like looks at it and
1290
01:08:01.849 --> 01:08:04.650
literally just goes, and then looks away.
1291
01:08:04.989 --> 01:08:08.530
Like this is all totally normal. there's a lot of.
1292
01:08:08.530 --> 01:08:10.539
These really strange little flourishes in this movie or these
1293
01:08:10.579 --> 01:08:14.840
little moments where inanimate objects will randomly come to life
1294
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:19.060
or insects are all over this movie. There's just little
1295
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:23.390
like stop motion animated insects everywhere. Like look at any,
1296
01:08:23.829 --> 01:08:25.510
any shot in this movie, you're going to see insects
1297
01:08:25.550 --> 01:08:28.010
in the background, whether it's moths, flies, spiders.
1298
01:08:30.609 --> 01:08:32.350
And I feel like that's saying something right.
1299
01:08:32.390 --> 01:08:35.779
Like there's no way Dave Borthwick just like, said oh
1300
01:08:35.819 --> 01:08:37.390
it's like bugs i just want to put bugs in
1301
01:08:37.430 --> 01:08:40.609
every single scene it's got to be saying something about you.
1302
01:08:40.569 --> 01:08:42.789
Know the whole the.
1303
01:08:42.729 --> 01:08:45.329
Whole vibe i get from this movie is that you
1304
01:08:45.369 --> 01:08:49.750
know uh humans are fucking up the world and nature
1305
01:08:49.770 --> 01:08:52.550
is sort of encroaching back on them uh whether it's
1306
01:08:53.449 --> 01:08:58.909
the insects taking over everything or you know this race
1307
01:08:58.949 --> 01:09:00.359
of little people that we'll talk about in a little
1308
01:09:00.380 --> 01:09:05.359
bit but so anyway so the junior G-men Gestapo comes
1309
01:09:05.420 --> 01:09:07.739
and takes Tom away because here's the other thing that
1310
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:11.779
I think is really neat that Borthwick does Tom Thumb
1311
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:14.699
is a fairy tale but in the fairy tale Tom
1312
01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:18.970
Thumb is like a little miracle baby right he's he's
1313
01:09:19.029 --> 01:09:22.909
celebrated And he's a good-looking.
1314
01:09:22.529 --> 01:09:26.319
Little boy, right? He's tiny, but he's handsome. In this,
1315
01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:31.000
Tom is not a miracle baby. If anything, he's a
1316
01:09:31.020 --> 01:09:33.140
genetic mutation. He's a genetic accident.
1317
01:09:33.819 --> 01:09:38.699
He's been engineered and fucked up due to a mix-up
1318
01:09:38.739 --> 01:09:41.630
at the plant. And he looks kind of like a
1319
01:09:41.689 --> 01:09:46.189
preemie baby. He's bald and his proportions are wrong.
1320
01:09:46.210 --> 01:09:47.590
Yeah.
1321
01:09:49.350 --> 01:09:51.850
But but what you said about how this movie sort
1322
01:09:51.869 --> 01:09:53.970
of touched you, right? Like you got a little emotional
1323
01:09:54.010 --> 01:09:57.979
in it and you kind of felt something. The, the,
1324
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:02.939
the emotional crux of this movie is, is Tom and
1325
01:10:02.979 --> 01:10:06.039
his father's relationship where, you know, even the mom, when
1326
01:10:06.060 --> 01:10:08.520
she gives birth to him, um, the dad kind of
1327
01:10:08.539 --> 01:10:12.060
just takes this, this little like lump of bloody play
1328
01:10:12.100 --> 01:10:14.539
essentially and brings it and washes it off. And when
1329
01:10:14.579 --> 01:10:18.100
Tom starts breathing and is alive, the dad is so happy.
1330
01:10:18.239 --> 01:10:21.640
And this dad is, is like, just in love with
1331
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:23.380
his son right from the get-go or even the mom
1332
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.420
seems a little like disturbed by it uh the dad
1333
01:10:26.460 --> 01:10:29.689
is just all in so when the when the government
1334
01:10:29.779 --> 01:10:33.390
agents come and kidnap him um which is essentially what
1335
01:10:33.430 --> 01:10:35.350
it is you know they're taking him to do genetic
1336
01:10:35.409 --> 01:10:39.649
experiments on him uh it's heartbreaking right it's really an
1337
01:10:39.689 --> 01:10:41.649
emotional moment but.
1338
01:10:41.609 --> 01:10:44.390
Uh if i can just like maybe talk a little
1339
01:10:44.409 --> 01:10:46.130
bit about that now that you brought it up because
1340
01:10:46.149 --> 01:10:48.170
yeah yeah i think this is the thing that like
1341
01:10:48.489 --> 01:10:50.890
i want to call out as one of the the
1342
01:10:51.109 --> 01:10:55.050
really like positive parts about this movie or something that's
1343
01:10:55.069 --> 01:10:58.000
really great about this movie is, you know, there's certain
1344
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:01.720
directors that I think Guillermo del Toro is one all
1345
01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:03.979
the time that I call out. I don't love his
1346
01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:07.430
movies necessarily, but I do love the fact that he
1347
01:11:07.529 --> 01:11:12.489
sympathizes with the monster. Tim Burton, Tim Burton's a good one.
1348
01:11:13.109 --> 01:11:14.329
Both of them have always said that. Yeah.
1349
01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:16.600
Guillermo del Toro, he, he always loves to see his
1350
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:19.079
movies from the point of view of the quote unquote monster,
1351
01:11:19.220 --> 01:11:21.159
because his monsters are always just misunderstood.
1352
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:25.460
Yes. What's his name? John Waters does it. Although he
1353
01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:27.800
doesn't do monsters in like the horror sense, but like
1354
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:28.920
same idea, right?
1355
01:11:29.020 --> 01:11:29.619
Divine. Yeah.
1356
01:11:30.100 --> 01:11:30.439
Yeah.
1357
01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:30.899
Yeah.
1358
01:11:30.930 --> 01:11:34.119
And just like, yeah, you, you hear people, Jodorowsky does it.
1359
01:11:34.149 --> 01:11:37.350
Like he always talks about his commentaries. He always talks
1360
01:11:37.390 --> 01:11:40.250
about finding these people that are like mangled or disformed
1361
01:11:40.310 --> 01:11:43.010
or something. And, or deformed or something and being like,
1362
01:11:43.029 --> 01:11:46.109
look how beautiful they are. Like they're this crazy, I
1363
01:11:46.149 --> 01:11:48.850
needed to show them, you know, anyways. So there's certain
1364
01:11:48.869 --> 01:11:51.869
people that just sympathize with the monster or the, and
1365
01:11:52.090 --> 01:11:54.090
I think that what this movie does such a good
1366
01:11:54.149 --> 01:11:58.300
job of is it like, I absolutely think there's something
1367
01:11:58.340 --> 01:12:02.819
to be said here as a theme around how man made, um,
1368
01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:10.659
progress like fucks up nature's progress. Like absolutely for sure. Um,
1369
01:12:11.220 --> 01:12:16.279
But I think that in the process of telling this story,
1370
01:12:16.579 --> 01:12:20.979
of creating these themes, he tells a very compassionate story
1371
01:12:21.050 --> 01:12:23.649
towards these little people that have all been fucked up
1372
01:12:23.710 --> 01:12:26.649
by science and it's not their fault. And they kind
1373
01:12:26.689 --> 01:12:28.449
of like find each other and there's a lot of
1374
01:12:28.569 --> 01:12:32.930
heart within it. And you never see them as scary
1375
01:12:32.949 --> 01:12:40.789
or weird or evil. You just see them as vulnerable
1376
01:12:40.890 --> 01:12:43.989
and sweet. And I think that's very important for the
1377
01:12:44.029 --> 01:12:45.069
movie to work the way it does.
1378
01:12:46.609 --> 01:12:47.140
No, for sure.
1379
01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:50.220
And that's one of the things that I really like
1380
01:12:50.260 --> 01:12:55.039
about this movie is when you first see Tom, he's
1381
01:12:55.079 --> 01:12:58.779
the little genetic freak. But as the movie progresses, you
1382
01:12:58.819 --> 01:13:02.770
see he's the hero, or maybe he's not the hero.
1383
01:13:02.789 --> 01:13:04.829
The hero is Jack, a character that he meets later,
1384
01:13:05.069 --> 01:13:08.470
Jack the Giant Slayer, who's part of a race of
1385
01:13:08.510 --> 01:13:13.729
little people. Um, but the, the, the monsters are the
1386
01:13:13.770 --> 01:13:16.750
humans are the full grown human beings who have, you know, uh,
1387
01:13:17.189 --> 01:13:20.850
like you said, in the name of progress have fucked up.
1388
01:13:21.020 --> 01:13:25.279
Everything have, you know, created essentially like, like seems like
1389
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:30.619
an infertility crisis. Um, the, you can see everybody's living
1390
01:13:30.659 --> 01:13:35.140
in these squalid conditions. Like the government has failed the citizens. Um,
1391
01:13:37.199 --> 01:13:42.340
the people in charge seem only interested in continuing to
1392
01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:47.109
make progress at the expense of just torturing and vivisecting
1393
01:13:47.229 --> 01:13:54.050
and mistreating these I don't know animals like when Tom
1394
01:13:54.069 --> 01:13:56.310
gets kidnapped and he goes to the laboratory and you
1395
01:13:56.329 --> 01:14:00.979
know eventually escapes with the help of this little skull
1396
01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:05.079
headed dragon lizard creature which is like one of the
1397
01:14:05.140 --> 01:14:08.489
cutest things little relationships in the movie, like him and
1398
01:14:08.529 --> 01:14:11.909
Tom's relationship is so sort of precious.
1399
01:14:12.770 --> 01:14:17.550
They've just become friends and it ends very tragically.
1400
01:14:17.770 --> 01:14:21.170
And that's one of those moments where like, like you said,
1401
01:14:21.250 --> 01:14:24.390
like there's emotion here, but you're, you're only feeling emotion
1402
01:14:24.449 --> 01:14:28.909
for these, these marginalized freak characters. So it is very
1403
01:14:28.989 --> 01:14:31.989
Guillermo del Toro, right. Finding the compassion in the, in
1404
01:14:32.010 --> 01:14:36.329
the grotesque. And I do love that about this movie.
1405
01:14:37.090 --> 01:14:39.189
And I think there's something for people that are going
1406
01:14:39.210 --> 01:14:42.409
to be listening to a podcast called brain melt. There's,
1407
01:14:42.979 --> 01:14:46.659
I think there's some kind of, there's some ties that
1408
01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:49.300
kind of bind us all together. And I think that
1409
01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:53.420
part of it is this idea of like loving the weird,
1410
01:14:53.479 --> 01:14:56.560
loving the outsider, loving the, like having sympathy for people
1411
01:14:56.619 --> 01:15:00.199
that are on the outside. And, and I think that Borthwick,
1412
01:15:00.229 --> 01:15:02.630
you know, and I think in, in the spirit of,
1413
01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:06.979
wanting to celebrate the outside or wanting to celebrate the
1414
01:15:07.020 --> 01:15:13.699
weird or the unusual you there's a um a willingness
1415
01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:16.399
to kind of like stretch the imagination a little bit
1416
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:20.680
and say okay this isn't a typical movie but you
1417
01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:22.840
know i'm interested in what they're saying and then eventually
1418
01:15:23.300 --> 01:15:25.140
just kind of learning to like love the fact that
1419
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.340
it's not a typical movie there's like a progress there
1420
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:30.079
right and i think that this movie for me is
1421
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:34.119
a perfect representation of that because if you're if you
1422
01:15:34.140 --> 01:15:36.220
just got finished watching and I'm not trying to pick
1423
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:38.199
on Marvel, but like, if you just got finished watching
1424
01:15:38.239 --> 01:15:40.300
the new Marvel movie, the Spider-Man or whatever that came
1425
01:15:40.340 --> 01:15:42.579
out and like, those are the kinds of movies you watch.
1426
01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:43.960
And then you watch this, you're going to be like,
1427
01:15:43.979 --> 01:15:48.430
what the fuck? And that's kind of an appropriate reaction
1428
01:15:48.510 --> 01:15:50.989
because the difference between like what you're used to in
1429
01:15:51.029 --> 01:15:52.930
this is just like, it's not even the same universe.
1430
01:15:54.390 --> 01:15:56.710
No, for sure. For sure. I mean, this was the movie.
1431
01:15:57.210 --> 01:15:59.020
This was definitely the movie that kicked open the door
1432
01:15:59.109 --> 01:16:07.819
to like, this directly led me to, um going down
1433
01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:11.319
like the road where i discovered like spank meyer and
1434
01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:17.079
um yeah and other stuff yeah yeah which you know
1435
01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:21.289
uh so it was it was really cool discovering this
1436
01:16:21.329 --> 01:16:26.270
movie at like 17 years old and uh who knows
1437
01:16:26.350 --> 01:16:30.970
maybe that played maybe this played a role in my
1438
01:16:31.010 --> 01:16:33.229
interest in so many different types of film that I
1439
01:16:33.250 --> 01:16:37.029
didn't really realize. And also like at 17 years old,
1440
01:16:37.069 --> 01:16:40.250
you know, you're still developing, uh, you know, this, this
1441
01:16:40.289 --> 01:16:46.600
movie shows so much compassion for it's downtrodden characters. Um,
1442
01:16:47.739 --> 01:16:50.979
and so, you know, I mean, I just love it
1443
01:16:51.020 --> 01:16:52.840
so much. Like when you get to the lab, when
1444
01:16:52.859 --> 01:16:55.520
you get to the laboratory and it's basically like a
1445
01:16:55.619 --> 01:17:00.390
mixture of like an animal testing facility, um, a prison,
1446
01:17:00.989 --> 01:17:03.170
a laboratory, you know, it's all these different things. Cause there's,
1447
01:17:03.329 --> 01:17:09.489
there's odd machines and cages, jars full of goo. There's
1448
01:17:09.529 --> 01:17:12.819
like a full grown cow, uh, but standing on its
1449
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.939
hind legs. And it's, it's like being held up and
1450
01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:18.579
being like this mechanical drill arm just keeps going in
1451
01:17:18.600 --> 01:17:19.899
and like drilling into its side.
1452
01:17:19.939 --> 01:17:20.640
It's very sad.
1453
01:17:20.659 --> 01:17:26.130
Um, there's some weird little like frog monkey type looking creature. Um,
1454
01:17:29.159 --> 01:17:33.420
but it's interesting because these are the play nation, the
1455
01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:36.060
stop motion, the puppets, because there's all these things in there.
1456
01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:39.020
None of them are like all that detailed as far
1457
01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:42.539
as like, they don't look real, but Borthwick gives them
1458
01:17:43.399 --> 01:17:47.659
so much sort of like emotional weight to it through
1459
01:17:47.819 --> 01:17:49.579
a mix of the sound design. Because I think that
1460
01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:51.840
is one thing that I really want to mention at
1461
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:54.439
least is the music and the sound design in this
1462
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:59.109
movie is so phenomenal. Um, like not just because the
1463
01:17:59.390 --> 01:18:01.449
music's great which it is i could i would absolutely
1464
01:18:01.510 --> 01:18:05.130
buy this soundtrack if it existed um but there's all
1465
01:18:05.189 --> 01:18:09.470
sorts of weird um industrial sounds happening throughout the movie
1466
01:18:09.649 --> 01:18:12.970
and these like strange kind of like i don't know
1467
01:18:13.010 --> 01:18:16.350
like shrieking voices in the background during things and like
1468
01:18:16.430 --> 01:18:20.609
mechanical or like digital beeps and boops um so there's
1469
01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:24.539
just this cacophony of sound um that really like drives
1470
01:18:24.619 --> 01:18:29.380
the the whole like vibe of this but um but
1471
01:18:29.409 --> 01:18:31.659
really I think like the most important thing in all
1472
01:18:31.699 --> 01:18:34.020
these scenes that we see in the, in the laboratory
1473
01:18:34.039 --> 01:18:38.220
and stuff is that it's, this society is clearly crumbling.
1474
01:18:40.619 --> 01:18:46.270
And it's, it's basically a society without ethical limits because
1475
01:18:46.310 --> 01:18:51.210
these people are, are just, I mean, listen, we do this,
1476
01:18:52.010 --> 01:18:54.760
people in our government and in our institutions do this
1477
01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:57.180
every day, right? Like there's animal testing facilities all over
1478
01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:00.140
the place. Like so much of the stuff we, we
1479
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:03.460
purchase has been tested on, on living creatures with no
1480
01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:07.359
regard for their lives and their, their wellbeing, whether it's
1481
01:19:07.539 --> 01:19:11.170
factory farms or animal testing facilities, you know? Like, it's
1482
01:19:11.229 --> 01:19:13.529
easy to look at this and say, oh, well, because
1483
01:19:13.550 --> 01:19:15.850
these are little, like, you know, claymation creatures.
1484
01:19:16.729 --> 01:19:20.449
Oh, well, it's not real. Yeah, but the reality is worse, right?
1485
01:19:21.029 --> 01:19:23.899
And I know we don't like thinking about that. It's
1486
01:19:23.939 --> 01:19:27.260
easier to just pretend that doesn't exist because it sort
1487
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:31.159
of encroaches on our sense of, like, being good people
1488
01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:32.590
with ethics and morals.
1489
01:19:33.510 --> 01:19:34.789
But, I mean, we're all sort of.
1490
01:19:36.270 --> 01:19:42.020
Willingly or unwillingly or inadvertently parts of a system or
1491
01:19:42.060 --> 01:19:46.619
systems that thrive off of the suffering of other creatures.
1492
01:19:49.140 --> 01:19:51.020
And this movie does a great job of, of showing
1493
01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:53.979
that and putting us right there in, in the point
1494
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:57.399
of view of this tiny little character with, with basically
1495
01:19:57.460 --> 01:20:01.430
no agency, no ability to escape his surroundings.
1496
01:20:01.699 --> 01:20:04.840
And, and we just go on this journey with him.
1497
01:20:06.100 --> 01:20:08.180
I think that that agency word is really important. I
1498
01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:10.449
think that's why it's so easy to sympathize with him.
1499
01:20:11.329 --> 01:20:12.470
Yeah.
1500
01:20:13.029 --> 01:20:14.850
And I think there's something to be said for the
1501
01:20:14.890 --> 01:20:18.689
fact that the animation is simple and being able to
1502
01:20:18.729 --> 01:20:21.489
kind of project your own emotions onto this movie.
1503
01:20:23.170 --> 01:20:23.890
That's a good point.
1504
01:20:23.970 --> 01:20:25.390
I wonder if that had anything to do with the
1505
01:20:25.430 --> 01:20:28.279
design of Tom, where he is very, like, he's very plain.
1506
01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:32.619
It's not bad animation. It's just very, there's no bells
1507
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:33.279
and whistles to it.
1508
01:20:35.180 --> 01:20:37.560
Or it is kind of British style, right? Even if
1509
01:20:37.579 --> 01:20:41.859
you think of Shaun the Sheep, which is much more advanced,
1510
01:20:43.159 --> 01:20:46.100
these characters are always fairly simple. Thomas the Tank Engine,
1511
01:20:46.140 --> 01:20:49.460
which was so big in the 80s and 90s, was
1512
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:54.340
literally just toy trains that had eyes and a mouth.
1513
01:20:55.739 --> 01:20:57.539
I think it is a little bit of a British thing,
1514
01:20:58.760 --> 01:21:00.979
which would have been kind of in his DNA, Borthwick's
1515
01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:04.029
DNA a little bit. Yeah, for sure. but I don't
1516
01:21:04.050 --> 01:21:06.170
know if it's intentional or not, but the, the effect
1517
01:21:06.229 --> 01:21:08.789
is there. I think it's just like, I do think
1518
01:21:08.829 --> 01:21:11.649
it's easier to project your own emotional response onto these
1519
01:21:11.680 --> 01:21:13.039
characters when they're done simple.
1520
01:21:13.060 --> 01:21:18.640
Yeah. I, I, I do love like, especially when, when
1521
01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:22.760
they get through the laboratory, which as, as Tom and
1522
01:21:22.819 --> 01:21:26.409
his little friend, his little lizard friend escape, which unfortunately
1523
01:21:26.430 --> 01:21:27.300
the lizard doesn't make it.
1524
01:21:27.449 --> 01:21:28.689
Sorry to ruin that for anybody.
1525
01:21:29.210 --> 01:21:32.590
If you get attached to that character, um, but once
1526
01:21:32.630 --> 01:21:36.529
they get out and they meet the little, uh, what
1527
01:21:36.550 --> 01:21:40.899
do you call, uh, the race of little people, those
1528
01:21:40.960 --> 01:21:45.119
characters are more, I don't know. What's the word I'm
1529
01:21:45.140 --> 01:21:49.800
looking for? A little more elaborately created. Um, whereas Tom
1530
01:21:49.859 --> 01:21:52.500
is bald and just wears these little orange overalls and
1531
01:21:52.539 --> 01:21:55.899
he's just, he's just flesh colored. These other characters are
1532
01:21:55.939 --> 01:21:59.409
all fully clothed with hair and, and tools and weapons
1533
01:21:59.470 --> 01:22:03.500
and stuff like that. So, It does become more, I
1534
01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:11.989
don't know, elaborate as it goes. But I love that
1535
01:22:12.029 --> 01:22:16.869
he goes from this, we go from this squalid city
1536
01:22:17.010 --> 01:22:25.229
kind of scape to these cold clinical laboratory sets and
1537
01:22:25.250 --> 01:22:28.390
then out into what essentially is like a garbage dump.
1538
01:22:28.779 --> 01:22:29.000
Right?
1539
01:22:29.039 --> 01:22:33.840
Like there's no escape from, from the, the nastiness of this,
1540
01:22:34.140 --> 01:22:36.859
this world that these characters are inhabiting, right? There's, there's
1541
01:22:36.939 --> 01:22:43.270
nowhere that's like nice except for in Tom's.
1542
01:22:42.930 --> 01:22:43.569
Parents' home.
1543
01:22:44.130 --> 01:22:46.949
Uh, when he's first born, that's the only time that
1544
01:22:46.970 --> 01:22:49.689
Tom has any kind of like warmth, uh, that he's
1545
01:22:49.710 --> 01:22:50.250
surrounded by.
1546
01:22:50.270 --> 01:22:55.149
Uh, so yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm
1547
01:22:55.170 --> 01:22:55.890
doing a lot of talking.
1548
01:22:56.310 --> 01:23:01.880
Um, I wanted your passion for this because this is
1549
01:23:01.899 --> 01:23:04.699
such a personal love for you. I'm letting you talk
1550
01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:06.739
a lot on this just on purpose. I wanted it
1551
01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:10.500
to come through. I think I've said a lot of
1552
01:23:10.539 --> 01:23:12.039
what I have to say on it. I think this
1553
01:23:12.100 --> 01:23:16.699
movie works because he does a really good job of
1554
01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:20.500
making this a story about a son and his father
1555
01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:23.760
and the journey that he goes to find his father again.
1556
01:23:23.779 --> 01:23:28.779
And like all the world, you know, it's a, it's
1557
01:23:28.819 --> 01:23:31.220
a tough world and, and, and it's, and it sucks.
1558
01:23:31.939 --> 01:23:36.039
And like, you know, the, the, the scientists and like
1559
01:23:36.420 --> 01:23:39.520
progress and, you know, the, what's the, the many, the
1560
01:23:40.100 --> 01:23:44.020
industrial complex is like doing everything possible to like push,
1561
01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:49.060
you know, force him down and control him. And despite
1562
01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:52.189
it all, he's, he's like fighting and rebelling, but it's
1563
01:23:52.439 --> 01:23:55.869
in this very sweet way. It's almost like, It's almost
1564
01:23:55.890 --> 01:23:57.930
like it's not that far from that movie, you know,
1565
01:23:57.949 --> 01:24:02.350
Marcel the Shell or whatever. It's got somewhat of a
1566
01:24:02.409 --> 01:24:06.649
similar vibe there if like... It's like an inverse reality
1567
01:24:06.689 --> 01:24:09.010
of that movie where everything is just kind of slightly
1568
01:24:09.069 --> 01:24:16.039
off kilter and darker and more sinister. But the sweetness
1569
01:24:16.100 --> 01:24:17.399
is there, just the same, I think.
1570
01:24:18.340 --> 01:24:20.899
It is, yeah. Because that's the thing, there's a lot
1571
01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:21.539
of these.
1572
01:24:22.420 --> 01:24:25.300
little characters that he meets along the way, the relationships
1573
01:24:25.340 --> 01:24:29.779
he makes, even his friendship with Jack, who is, I guess,
1574
01:24:29.930 --> 01:24:32.010
I guess he's kind of the leader of the little
1575
01:24:32.050 --> 01:24:38.449
race of small people. Jack is, it's interesting because now
1576
01:24:38.470 --> 01:24:41.829
you've got these characters where, where Jack and Tom sort
1577
01:24:41.850 --> 01:24:44.609
of team up, but Jack is on a mission.
1578
01:24:44.670 --> 01:24:46.109
Jack wants to kill the giants.
1579
01:24:48.270 --> 01:24:52.489
I do love that, that reveal where, as soon as
1580
01:24:52.510 --> 01:24:55.310
you get out into the real world and he meets
1581
01:24:55.369 --> 01:24:59.069
these little people and you see the humans just kind
1582
01:24:59.090 --> 01:25:01.930
of bumbling around in the background, walking around, that's the
1583
01:25:01.970 --> 01:25:06.590
first time, even though you've seen, uh, Tom's dad with
1584
01:25:06.630 --> 01:25:09.149
him and, and you get this kind of scale that
1585
01:25:09.170 --> 01:25:13.470
Tom's much smaller, the dad's always seated. He's always leaning in.
1586
01:25:13.550 --> 01:25:16.829
It's very personal. Like you're in these very like tight spaces. Um,
1587
01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:20.380
but when you see them walking around there, that's when
1588
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:22.819
you kind of realize, Oh, okay. These are the giants
1589
01:25:22.890 --> 01:25:27.329
from like traditional fairy tales, right? Where they're always stupid and,
1590
01:25:27.350 --> 01:25:30.289
you know, Jack and the beanstalk, right? Like we're always
1591
01:25:31.130 --> 01:25:32.989
from a young age in these fairy tales, we were,
1592
01:25:33.109 --> 01:25:35.069
we were kind of like made to think, okay, the
1593
01:25:35.130 --> 01:25:38.130
giants are bad. They're mean, they're evil, they're dumb. And
1594
01:25:38.149 --> 01:25:40.550
that's exactly what these people are. And it's really just humans,
1595
01:25:41.449 --> 01:25:43.989
these humans who are walking around and they're drunk and they're.
1596
01:25:44.229 --> 01:25:46.670
They're bumbling and they're idiots. Yeah.
1597
01:25:50.170 --> 01:25:55.010
And it's not funny, but it's interesting because the little
1598
01:25:55.029 --> 01:25:59.869
people characters are more humane toward each other. They have
1599
01:25:59.909 --> 01:26:04.250
a better sense of community. They get along better. And
1600
01:26:04.390 --> 01:26:07.770
they're trying to thrive in the face of massive adversity.
1601
01:26:08.289 --> 01:26:13.850
Whereas the dominant species are absolute fucking morons and are
1602
01:26:13.890 --> 01:26:15.140
just fucking this world up.
1603
01:26:15.770 --> 01:26:15.970
Right.
1604
01:26:16.050 --> 01:26:18.289
Which is why I think the insects are important because
1605
01:26:18.350 --> 01:26:21.250
it kind of shows like whether you're, whether they're the
1606
01:26:21.329 --> 01:26:23.649
bugs that are sort of encroaching and taking over these
1607
01:26:23.689 --> 01:26:27.060
people's houses and every, every domicile, like there's even that
1608
01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:30.600
scene in the, when they're in like a bowling alley and, uh,
1609
01:26:31.579 --> 01:26:36.859
you've got this one, definitely a transvestite, uh, a man
1610
01:26:36.899 --> 01:26:39.779
dressed as a woman and, uh, on a date. And
1611
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:44.420
he's got this, um, like bro broach in on his dress, uh,
1612
01:26:45.579 --> 01:26:47.159
I guess you could, I don't know. I assume you're
1613
01:26:47.180 --> 01:26:48.890
supposed to obviously see that it's a man. He has,
1614
01:26:48.909 --> 01:26:52.930
he has like five o'clock shadow. Um, but the, the
1615
01:26:53.010 --> 01:26:55.989
pin is basically a live beetle, right? So they're sort
1616
01:26:56.029 --> 01:26:58.850
of like, they're being so inundated by these insects that
1617
01:26:58.869 --> 01:27:01.760
they're trying to find ways to incorporate them into, uh,
1618
01:27:02.260 --> 01:27:06.739
into their everyday life. Um, well, yeah, anyway, so the
1619
01:27:06.779 --> 01:27:10.319
journey of Tom trying to kill the giants, I'm sorry, uh,
1620
01:27:10.399 --> 01:27:12.520
Jack trying to kill the giants, Tom's along for the ride.
1621
01:27:12.619 --> 01:27:14.300
All Tom wants is to get back to his father.
1622
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:18.520
And while this is all happening, Jack's dad, Tom's dad
1623
01:27:18.579 --> 01:27:19.399
is trying to find him.
1624
01:27:19.899 --> 01:27:22.220
And that's, again, like I said, that's the emotional heart
1625
01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:26.020
of the movie. But what I was going to say,
1626
01:27:26.060 --> 01:27:27.539
and I don't want to forget because I just remembered.
1627
01:27:27.640 --> 01:27:29.560
So you were talking about like matte paintings and kind
1628
01:27:29.579 --> 01:27:33.239
of like this. There's one blink and you miss it shot.
1629
01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:37.689
And it's between when Tom gets kidnapped. And I think
1630
01:27:37.750 --> 01:27:41.609
when he goes there in the inside of the laboratory,
1631
01:27:42.569 --> 01:27:46.060
when it's like a lightning flashes and like thunder cracks.
1632
01:27:46.659 --> 01:27:51.159
And there's this, it's supposed to be like looking at
1633
01:27:51.649 --> 01:27:57.609
the city or like the town, but it's, it reminds
1634
01:27:57.649 --> 01:28:03.399
me so much of, you know, Pied Piper, the Yuri
1635
01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:06.979
Barda movie. Oh, yeah.
1636
01:28:07.020 --> 01:28:08.979
Def Crocodile. No, Def Crocodile put it out, right?
1637
01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:10.020
They did. Yeah.
1638
01:28:10.060 --> 01:28:11.920
And it reminds me so much of like, because it's,
1639
01:28:12.100 --> 01:28:16.399
it's super highly stylized and the scale of it is
1640
01:28:16.420 --> 01:28:19.859
really odd, but it's like this great, just go back
1641
01:28:19.899 --> 01:28:22.859
and put it on YouTube and just like find that scene.
1642
01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:28.300
To me, like that's the, that's the coolest exterior quote
1643
01:28:28.319 --> 01:28:29.649
unquote shot of the whole movie.
1644
01:28:29.689 --> 01:28:31.550
And it kind of gives you this.
1645
01:28:31.210 --> 01:28:34.689
Really, it's so artfully done. I wish they had showed
1646
01:28:34.689 --> 01:28:37.380
more of it. Um, yeah but i wonder if he's
1647
01:28:37.479 --> 01:28:40.880
like budgetary constraints or who knows what um anyway yeah
1648
01:28:41.300 --> 01:28:42.960
so i think it is a mix of matte painting
1649
01:28:42.979 --> 01:28:49.020
um you know a lot of like little stage setups
1650
01:28:49.060 --> 01:28:50.619
and everything i don't think any of this movie is
1651
01:28:50.659 --> 01:28:53.159
actually set in any kind of like a real place.
1652
01:28:55.029 --> 01:28:58.460
No, it's important that it's got that slightly, like, just
1653
01:28:58.520 --> 01:29:01.220
outside of reality feel, right? Because I think it makes everything,
1654
01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:03.239
it fits like a perfect fit.
1655
01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:06.439
Well, because it's supposed to be, essentially, it's just a
1656
01:29:07.239 --> 01:29:12.199
very bleak retelling of a fairy tale. So it's, you know,
1657
01:29:12.239 --> 01:29:14.460
a dark fairy tale. Certainly, I don't think I would
1658
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:16.539
say this is like a kid's movie, but you could
1659
01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:19.880
absolutely show it to kids. Like, you know, there's nothing,
1660
01:29:20.180 --> 01:29:22.279
there's scary stuff in it, but there's nothing that's, like,
1661
01:29:22.819 --> 01:29:24.239
offensive to children or anything like that.
1662
01:29:24.680 --> 01:29:29.720
No, nothing worse than, if we're talking about... The Tindrum. Yeah, well,
1663
01:29:30.140 --> 01:29:32.939
forget Tindrum, yeah. No, but nothing worse than Pinocchio is
1664
01:29:32.960 --> 01:29:34.439
what I was going to say. That movie's got some
1665
01:29:34.510 --> 01:29:35.369
scary shit in it.
1666
01:29:36.159 --> 01:29:38.130
Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know what? That's a great.
1667
01:29:39.069 --> 01:29:41.390
I'm glad you brought that up because this, you can tell,
1668
01:29:41.409 --> 01:29:44.430
Dave Borthwick kind of wanted to play in that same
1669
01:29:44.470 --> 01:29:47.590
sort of sandbox of like, all right, we're going to
1670
01:29:47.630 --> 01:29:49.310
tell a fairy tale story, but we're going to tell
1671
01:29:49.390 --> 01:29:52.420
it a little bit darker a little bit scarier and
1672
01:29:52.640 --> 01:29:55.590
uh i mean even even some of those classic disney
1673
01:29:55.600 --> 01:29:59.729
movies from the 40s 50s were pretty fucked up like
1674
01:29:59.770 --> 01:30:03.430
there's some scary shit in those um i miss those
1675
01:30:03.489 --> 01:30:07.970
days where um even like big studio animated movies could
1676
01:30:07.989 --> 01:30:10.489
be could feel dangerous you know what i mean um
1677
01:30:11.489 --> 01:30:13.159
those days are so in the rear view at this
1678
01:30:13.199 --> 01:30:15.989
point like who knows if we'll ever get back to
1679
01:30:16.010 --> 01:30:17.569
anything like that, but yeah, we're.
1680
01:30:18.029 --> 01:30:19.649
We're too deep in the podcast to sit here and
1681
01:30:19.670 --> 01:30:21.689
like pontificate on this, but I do want to talk
1682
01:30:21.710 --> 01:30:24.149
to you about that or just like, I think about
1683
01:30:24.170 --> 01:30:26.800
that sometimes. Like we, like you look at dark crystal,
1684
01:30:26.850 --> 01:30:30.199
you look at, um, uh, what's the one, the willow,
1685
01:30:30.220 --> 01:30:35.119
you look at legend, like the labyrinth, like labyrinth movies
1686
01:30:35.140 --> 01:30:39.340
were fucked up, man. Yeah. But like, not really. They
1687
01:30:39.380 --> 01:30:42.520
were just, they were just like closer to, you know,
1688
01:30:43.430 --> 01:30:45.050
fear like they they.
1689
01:30:44.829 --> 01:30:47.329
Just they they didn't talk down to kids right like
1690
01:30:47.409 --> 01:30:52.880
jim henson understood so much about children like look at
1691
01:30:52.899 --> 01:30:58.460
the people who who kind of uh steered our generation
1692
01:30:58.539 --> 01:31:00.779
right and and and taught us so much like jim
1693
01:31:00.819 --> 01:31:05.210
henson mr rogers um you know the jim henson company
1694
01:31:05.250 --> 01:31:08.829
in general reading rainbow dawn bluth right yeah reading rainbow
1695
01:31:09.229 --> 01:31:13.800
like these were these were people who were artists, they were,
1696
01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:17.359
you know, storytellers, they were so creative, but they understood
1697
01:31:18.380 --> 01:31:21.920
children and they knew that you don't, you don't talk
1698
01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:22.720
down to kids.
1699
01:31:23.460 --> 01:31:25.279
You talk to kids, right?
1700
01:31:25.359 --> 01:31:29.239
Like you don't have to be afraid to, to show
1701
01:31:29.310 --> 01:31:34.909
something scary or something sad or confusing. Like, in fact,
1702
01:31:34.949 --> 01:31:37.850
you should be doing that because it helps open up
1703
01:31:37.909 --> 01:31:40.750
conversations and avenues for, for learning and development.
1704
01:31:42.050 --> 01:31:46.189
Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. And just opens up the imagination
1705
01:31:46.229 --> 01:31:48.859
in a way that nothing on YouTube now ever will.
1706
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:51.439
Yeah, no, exactly. Right.
1707
01:31:51.500 --> 01:31:53.800
Like I don't think any of the kids watching a
1708
01:31:53.840 --> 01:31:56.220
cocoa melon are really getting challenged.
1709
01:31:57.399 --> 01:31:57.819
Mentally.
1710
01:31:59.130 --> 01:32:00.789
I want to talk about the end of the movie
1711
01:32:00.850 --> 01:32:06.050
because it's very ambiguous and very weird.
1712
01:32:06.670 --> 01:32:08.010
But I don't want to ruin it for anybody.
1713
01:32:08.130 --> 01:32:11.609
So we'll talk, maybe we can talk about it off podcast,
1714
01:32:11.670 --> 01:32:14.390
but I will say I do love the ending and
1715
01:32:14.430 --> 01:32:16.989
it's sort of like a, at least the way I
1716
01:32:17.029 --> 01:32:20.659
read the ending, it's very, it's probably the most upbeat
1717
01:32:21.199 --> 01:32:25.640
and hopeful moment of the movie. So I do love
1718
01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:28.720
that in a movie that's this dark and this dour,
1719
01:32:29.539 --> 01:32:34.409
Borthwick still decided to end it on, sort of a
1720
01:32:34.489 --> 01:32:37.109
hopeful note you know he wasn't he wasn't he didn't
1721
01:32:37.130 --> 01:32:40.470
make this movie purely like from a cynical standpoint.
1722
01:32:42.130 --> 01:32:44.170
Uh which i really appreciate you know i was just
1723
01:32:44.210 --> 01:32:47.210
thinking maybe we could do because you know we uh
1724
01:32:47.449 --> 01:32:48.649
well i don't want to talk i don't want to
1725
01:32:48.670 --> 01:32:51.069
spoil this because we can just focus on the movie
1726
01:32:51.090 --> 01:32:53.350
but we're going to introduce our patreon here in just
1727
01:32:53.409 --> 01:32:56.170
a minute and maybe there's something we can do where
1728
01:32:56.210 --> 01:32:59.010
we like keep recording and um and put that onto
1729
01:32:59.029 --> 01:33:02.390
the patreon or something um Because I think if anybody
1730
01:33:02.430 --> 01:33:04.270
watches this movie, they're going to want to talk about that.
1731
01:33:04.380 --> 01:33:10.079
We'll figure that out. But yeah, no. I mean, I'm
1732
01:33:10.779 --> 01:33:12.479
trying to think if there's anything else I need to
1733
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:16.739
say or feel like needs to be said. I feel
1734
01:33:16.770 --> 01:33:18.609
like we did a good job of covering what this
1735
01:33:18.670 --> 01:33:22.600
movie is and whether or not you would like it.
1736
01:33:22.630 --> 01:33:25.329
If you're listening to this and you think you want
1737
01:33:25.350 --> 01:33:27.869
to watch it based on what we're saying, you'll probably
1738
01:33:27.930 --> 01:33:29.640
like it. If none of this sounds good based on
1739
01:33:29.649 --> 01:33:31.180
what you're saying, you probably won't.
1740
01:33:32.460 --> 01:33:34.520
If you're still listening to us going on about this,
1741
01:33:34.539 --> 01:33:37.010
you're probably going to dig it. Especially if you're somebody
1742
01:33:37.029 --> 01:33:44.989
who's a fan of the Quay Brothers or Svankmajer and
1743
01:33:45.029 --> 01:33:48.449
so many other great stop motion, especially Czech animators.
1744
01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:52.699
I think you'll enjoy this.
1745
01:33:52.880 --> 01:33:57.720
There's so much artistry here and creativity and interesting visual storytelling.
1746
01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:58.539
That's the key.
1747
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:01.199
I don't know if we touched on this, but there's
1748
01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:06.500
only maybe like four lines of actual English dialogue in this.
1749
01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:09.619
Everything else is all of the human characters and everybody
1750
01:34:09.659 --> 01:34:16.010
else just communicates through grunts and grumbles, um, which is
1751
01:34:16.050 --> 01:34:21.449
really interesting. So the whole story is told, um, purely visually. Um,
1752
01:34:21.529 --> 01:34:23.689
and the fact that it's so easy to follow and,
1753
01:34:24.470 --> 01:34:26.170
you know, I mean, there's some weird shit where you're like,
1754
01:34:26.189 --> 01:34:30.600
what the, I don't understand what just happened, but, um, No,
1755
01:34:30.619 --> 01:34:30.979
but it's.
1756
01:34:30.899 --> 01:34:32.140
A familiar story. Yeah.
1757
01:34:32.699 --> 01:34:33.359
Yeah, exactly.
1758
01:34:34.100 --> 01:34:37.199
For sure. Um, I'm really interested to hear what you
1759
01:34:37.260 --> 01:34:38.119
paired this with.
1760
01:34:38.699 --> 01:34:40.279
Um, but you have to go first. Cause I went
1761
01:34:40.310 --> 01:34:41.489
first last time. Yeah.
1762
01:34:41.609 --> 01:34:46.050
Oh, that's right. Okay. So, um, to me, like 30
1763
01:34:46.050 --> 01:34:48.520
minutes in or something or 20 minutes in, I was like, Oh,
1764
01:34:48.550 --> 01:34:49.789
I know, I know what I'm going to pair it
1765
01:34:49.829 --> 01:34:53.550
with because I had a similar feeling to this. So
1766
01:34:54.010 --> 01:34:56.579
the last, I hope I get this right. The last
1767
01:34:56.680 --> 01:35:00.939
movie that William Castle ever made, um, Was a movie
1768
01:35:01.079 --> 01:35:05.239
called Shanks.
1769
01:35:05.319 --> 01:35:06.619
Didn't Vinegar Syndrome release that?
1770
01:35:07.539 --> 01:35:10.180
Sort of, yes. Cinematograph. It was one of their Halloween
1771
01:35:10.260 --> 01:35:18.520
releases one year. It is the craziest movie. First of all,
1772
01:35:18.539 --> 01:35:23.399
it's very different from a lot of William Castle movies.
1773
01:35:24.119 --> 01:35:33.649
It's like this story of this Frankenstein, the actual book,
1774
01:35:33.909 --> 01:35:35.130
there's a sadness to it.
1775
01:35:35.989 --> 01:35:36.470
Absolutely.
1776
01:35:37.029 --> 01:35:42.880
That's what makes that story so timeless. Frankenstein is the
1777
01:35:42.960 --> 01:35:44.880
basis for a lot of what we're talking about here
1778
01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:49.840
as far as loving the monster. Shanks has that exact
1779
01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:58.909
same emotion. It's a world where somebody is thrown into
1780
01:35:58.949 --> 01:36:05.050
this world and realizes that they're, you know, like it's a,
1781
01:36:05.670 --> 01:36:10.649
just like reality, but like slightly skewed reality, just slightly
1782
01:36:10.689 --> 01:36:15.710
different from reality. You, you really feel sympathy for the monster.
1783
01:36:15.729 --> 01:36:21.119
And it's a, it's the whole time you're just, you
1784
01:36:21.180 --> 01:36:24.899
feel like this is unlike any other movie I've ever
1785
01:36:24.979 --> 01:36:29.220
seen before. Even though it's, even though the story feels familiar,
1786
01:36:29.260 --> 01:36:31.260
it just, there's like something that's a little bit off
1787
01:36:31.340 --> 01:36:34.300
about it. I found it in a, in a very
1788
01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:37.840
beautiful way. I love shanks a lot. And I think
1789
01:36:37.880 --> 01:36:39.890
it would be a really fun pairing with this movie of,
1790
01:36:40.020 --> 01:36:43.510
you know, two worlds where you, you cheer for the
1791
01:36:43.550 --> 01:36:50.130
main character and you feel the like, is it pathos?
1792
01:36:50.310 --> 01:36:51.289
Is that the right way to say that?
1793
01:36:51.489 --> 01:36:51.670
Yeah.
1794
01:36:51.710 --> 01:36:53.930
Like you feel all the emotions from the main character.
1795
01:36:53.949 --> 01:36:59.659
But yeah, There's very little exposition and you're just watching
1796
01:36:59.680 --> 01:37:02.239
these things and these sad events play out on screen
1797
01:37:02.300 --> 01:37:07.710
and death and all that. But no matter what, you're
1798
01:37:08.449 --> 01:37:11.250
kind of siding with the main character in a way.
1799
01:37:11.350 --> 01:37:14.010
So yeah, shanks for me.
1800
01:37:15.229 --> 01:37:17.470
I didn't know anything about this movie other than the
1801
01:37:17.510 --> 01:37:21.670
name of it and I can picture the cover. And
1802
01:37:21.729 --> 01:37:24.319
I had no interest because I generally avoid.
1803
01:37:25.729 --> 01:37:28.350
that line of movies are just basically all that stuff.
1804
01:37:28.590 --> 01:37:29.300
You know that about me.
1805
01:37:29.770 --> 01:37:30.220
Sure.
1806
01:37:30.270 --> 01:37:32.100
Not for any reason. I'm just, I just see, I
1807
01:37:32.109 --> 01:37:33.800
look at this stuff and I go, I don't know.
1808
01:37:34.380 --> 01:37:36.460
I don't see myself as like a person who makes
1809
01:37:36.479 --> 01:37:40.100
snap judgments. I just, with so much stuff to prioritize
1810
01:37:40.220 --> 01:37:43.720
and movies to buy and stuff like, you know, that's,
1811
01:37:43.779 --> 01:37:46.460
that's just a line that's run or flown under my radar,
1812
01:37:47.340 --> 01:37:49.520
but man, you're making me really want to watch this movie.
1813
01:37:51.460 --> 01:37:52.939
So I'm definitely gonna have to check it out. I
1814
01:37:52.960 --> 01:37:55.119
just looked up on letterbox and I'm reading the synopsis.
1815
01:37:56.100 --> 01:37:59.159
And I'm like, this is exactly something that I feel
1816
01:37:59.189 --> 01:37:59.729
like I would love.
1817
01:37:59.779 --> 01:38:02.069
Like, I don't know why I haven't checked it out yet. Yeah.
1818
01:38:02.609 --> 01:38:05.210
And a bunch of people that I follow on Letterboxd
1819
01:38:05.229 --> 01:38:06.850
that gave it like two, two and a half stars
1820
01:38:07.170 --> 01:38:09.149
makes me even more excited to see it because usually
1821
01:38:09.170 --> 01:38:11.109
when people rate things really low, I end up loving it.
1822
01:38:11.369 --> 01:38:14.720
So I don't know what that says about me. I
1823
01:38:15.340 --> 01:38:20.380
don't do it intentionally. But yeah, no, that's awesome. I'm
1824
01:38:20.399 --> 01:38:22.010
going to watch that movie and then, you know, we'll
1825
01:38:22.010 --> 01:38:24.930
uh we'll have to compare notes on it that's what
1826
01:38:24.949 --> 01:38:30.199
i do hell yeah um so for me at first
1827
01:38:30.760 --> 01:38:31.819
i feel like i always do this i always tell
1828
01:38:31.840 --> 01:38:33.279
you what i was gonna go with and then i
1829
01:38:33.300 --> 01:38:36.119
tell you what i actually so the first movie that
1830
01:38:36.140 --> 01:38:38.119
kind of came to mind for some reason when i
1831
01:38:38.140 --> 01:38:40.359
was watching it this time was um the city of
1832
01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:46.109
lost children just because of the atmosphere and the whole
1833
01:38:46.170 --> 01:38:50.310
vibe of it but i was like it's too It's
1834
01:38:50.329 --> 01:38:52.569
almost too similar in some ways, and I kind of
1835
01:38:52.590 --> 01:38:54.529
wanted to go a little... You always come up with
1836
01:38:54.550 --> 01:38:57.170
these really great pairings, and I always just kind of like.
1837
01:38:57.609 --> 01:39:00.029
I'm too on the nose. But as I was watching
1838
01:39:00.069 --> 01:39:02.430
it this time, it hit me.
1839
01:39:02.409 --> 01:39:05.960
Like a ton of bricks, and I'm so excited to
1840
01:39:05.979 --> 01:39:08.840
be able to pair this on here with this movie.
1841
01:39:09.939 --> 01:39:12.579
So for me, it's Mad Max Fury Road.
1842
01:39:13.939 --> 01:39:14.560
Okay.
1843
01:39:14.819 --> 01:39:16.380
And let me tell you why.
1844
01:39:16.399 --> 01:39:17.220
Yeah, please.
1845
01:39:18.930 --> 01:39:20.739
Now... Chris, you know this about me.
1846
01:39:20.819 --> 01:39:23.189
That is, I mean, listen, if I had to tell
1847
01:39:23.199 --> 01:39:25.090
you what my favorite movie the last 25 years was,
1848
01:39:27.289 --> 01:39:29.550
it wouldn't take me a heartbeat to say Fury Road.
1849
01:39:29.569 --> 01:39:31.090
That is one of my favorite movies of all time.
1850
01:39:31.170 --> 01:39:34.050
I've watched it easily 100 times at this point.
1851
01:39:34.350 --> 01:39:34.609
Sure.
1852
01:39:35.130 --> 01:39:35.770
I have a problem.
1853
01:39:37.970 --> 01:39:41.340
So here's, to me, what makes us a good pairing.
1854
01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:46.779
Not just the fact that we're in a world that's very...
1855
01:39:47.729 --> 01:39:53.079
broken um that was broken by people in power um
1856
01:39:53.420 --> 01:39:59.180
and following characters who are marginalized and and you know
1857
01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:02.520
uh genetically sort of altered whether that was because of
1858
01:40:02.619 --> 01:40:11.069
fallout or because of experimentation but the the the relationship
1859
01:40:11.329 --> 01:40:17.470
and the the journey of tom and Jack the Giant
1860
01:40:17.489 --> 01:40:23.649
Slayer mirrors very closely the relationship between Max and Furiosa
1861
01:40:24.310 --> 01:40:30.890
where Max is essentially calm because he's a sort of
1862
01:40:31.850 --> 01:40:36.720
unwitting or maybe unwilling partner on this journey he's put
1863
01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:40.609
there because of circumstance not by choice Uh, he also
1864
01:40:40.649 --> 01:40:43.529
sort of lacks agency through a lot of the movie. Um,
1865
01:40:43.649 --> 01:40:45.689
Max is, is chained to the front of a car
1866
01:40:45.750 --> 01:40:49.550
for the first, you know, 20 plus minutes of the movie. Um,
1867
01:40:50.880 --> 01:40:53.680
and he is just sort of, he just goes along
1868
01:40:53.739 --> 01:40:57.199
for the ride. Same as, uh, Tom, Tom's just following Jack.
1869
01:40:57.359 --> 01:40:59.960
Jack has an ax to grind. Jack is out for revenge.
1870
01:41:00.100 --> 01:41:03.039
Jack has a mission that he's trying to accomplish. Same
1871
01:41:03.079 --> 01:41:10.090
as Furiosa. She wants revenge on Immortan Joe. Um, or
1872
01:41:10.149 --> 01:41:12.449
the fact that he's basically ruined all of these people's lives.
1873
01:41:13.289 --> 01:41:16.470
So as I'm watching this, I'm literally just like this, I'm,
1874
01:41:16.590 --> 01:41:19.810
I'm watching Furiosa and, and, and Max, uh, you know,
1875
01:41:20.430 --> 01:41:23.210
Max is just sort of like in it for the ride.
1876
01:41:23.229 --> 01:41:26.029
Uh, and it just really fit. And the more I
1877
01:41:26.050 --> 01:41:27.210
think about it, the more I think it fits.
1878
01:41:27.390 --> 01:41:30.329
So I don't want to go too, too overboard with
1879
01:41:30.369 --> 01:41:32.470
my explanation, but I, uh, I stand by it.
1880
01:41:32.850 --> 01:41:37.170
Hell yeah. Um, it's like a, there's like a progression of, um,
1881
01:41:37.850 --> 01:41:40.909
the destruction of civilization and like secret adventures of Tom
1882
01:41:40.949 --> 01:41:43.529
Thumb is like halfway there. And then we, we see
1883
01:41:43.569 --> 01:41:45.890
it like, there's like a jump in time, like a
1884
01:41:45.930 --> 01:41:46.670
hundred years later.
1885
01:41:46.729 --> 01:41:47.989
And it's Fury Road.
1886
01:41:48.109 --> 01:41:50.399
Yep. There you go.
1887
01:41:50.420 --> 01:41:52.229
That's my, that's my pairing. I love it.
1888
01:41:52.899 --> 01:41:54.319
Awesome. I didn't know you had seen it before.
1889
01:41:54.340 --> 01:41:57.220
No, yeah, no, I saw it for the first time
1890
01:41:57.239 --> 01:41:59.840
just the other day. I saw it for the first
1891
01:41:59.880 --> 01:42:03.369
time of that day, the other day.
1892
01:42:05.890 --> 01:42:11.029
Well, a movie, I think if we look at what's
1893
01:42:11.050 --> 01:42:14.229
coming up next, it's a movie that I could see
1894
01:42:14.289 --> 01:42:16.329
jumping up into my top 25.
1895
01:42:16.329 --> 01:42:17.750
Oh, man.
1896
01:42:20.029 --> 01:42:22.180
We don't know at the time of recording this if
1897
01:42:22.220 --> 01:42:25.079
we're going to be able to get Joseph and Annie
1898
01:42:25.119 --> 01:42:28.300
from Bleeding Skull on. If by chance you're listening to
1899
01:42:28.359 --> 01:42:30.369
this and you didn't see my email, please check it out.
1900
01:42:30.380 --> 01:42:32.300
There's no way they're listening to this, but if they were,
1901
01:42:32.319 --> 01:42:34.039
I would probably just die of joy.
1902
01:42:35.560 --> 01:42:38.369
But we think it's time to celebrate bleeding skull. Is
1903
01:42:38.390 --> 01:42:39.069
that fair to say?
1904
01:42:39.090 --> 01:42:42.810
Uh, it's always time to celebrate bleeding skull, but absolutely.
1905
01:42:42.829 --> 01:42:46.689
Um, do you want to talk about, uh, a gruff
1906
01:42:46.750 --> 01:42:47.720
and then I'll talk about the other one?
1907
01:42:47.729 --> 01:42:48.829
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
1908
01:42:48.989 --> 01:42:51.720
So, um, actually it's funny because the two movies that
1909
01:42:51.729 --> 01:42:53.800
we're going to, that we're going to cover next time, um,
1910
01:42:54.100 --> 01:42:57.279
were two of the first movies to get added to the, uh,
1911
01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:00.319
brain melt list when it was in its infancy. Um,
1912
01:43:00.520 --> 01:43:04.159
when it was still only about, you know, five, 10 movies, uh,
1913
01:43:05.270 --> 01:43:09.890
And one of those movies, Bleeding Skull, I don't want
1914
01:43:09.909 --> 01:43:12.909
to jump to too many conclusions, but they have posted
1915
01:43:12.949 --> 01:43:16.449
about it on their Instagram, and they are going to
1916
01:43:16.470 --> 01:43:17.710
be showing it theatrically.
1917
01:43:17.989 --> 01:43:19.350
Apparently they cleaned it up.
1918
01:43:20.090 --> 01:43:24.960
It's a movie called Agoraf, also known as The Mad Mutilator.
1919
01:43:25.699 --> 01:43:28.739
I believe it's a French film, which both of these
1920
01:43:28.779 --> 01:43:31.399
movies that we're going to talk about are French films.
1921
01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:33.680
Just, man.
1922
01:43:34.369 --> 01:43:37.420
If there was a movie that I had to say, like,
1923
01:43:37.619 --> 01:43:42.960
this movie defines what Brain Melt is, like, this would
1924
01:43:42.979 --> 01:43:43.560
be the movie.
1925
01:43:43.779 --> 01:43:44.100
It is.
1926
01:43:44.119 --> 01:43:47.760
I don't even know how to explain this movie, man. Like,
1927
01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:50.970
just look up Ogroff. O-G-R-O-F-F. If you haven't seen it
1928
01:43:51.210 --> 01:43:54.810
and you like lasher movies or bizarre horror.
1929
01:43:54.590 --> 01:43:55.949
Movies, I mean.
1930
01:43:57.750 --> 01:43:59.710
We'll save it for the episode, but Holy shit. This
1931
01:43:59.770 --> 01:44:01.750
is one of the greatest movies I've ever seen. Like
1932
01:44:02.409 --> 01:44:05.220
instant five star. I remember I, I overpaid for the
1933
01:44:05.260 --> 01:44:10.619
DVD just based on its reputation and thought to myself,
1934
01:44:10.680 --> 01:44:13.039
there's no way this TV is going to arrive and
1935
01:44:13.140 --> 01:44:15.539
it's going to be worth the money I spent on it. Uh,
1936
01:44:15.939 --> 01:44:21.020
and I'd have paid twice as much if I had known. So, uh, yeah,
1937
01:44:21.239 --> 01:44:24.840
really excited to not just revisit it, but talk about it. And, uh,
1938
01:44:25.819 --> 01:44:28.479
the prospect of bleeding skull, putting out one of my
1939
01:44:28.659 --> 01:44:31.810
just absolute favorite insane movies.
1940
01:44:33.550 --> 01:44:36.729
It's interesting because on the Wikipedia page for a graph,
1941
01:44:37.050 --> 01:44:40.510
it says similar movies and it calls out 1989 is
1942
01:44:40.529 --> 01:44:43.630
a violent shit, which could be a potential future movie
1943
01:44:43.649 --> 01:44:44.789
that we cover.
1944
01:44:45.050 --> 01:44:49.729
I do love violent shit series. Uh, one, two, and
1945
01:44:49.810 --> 01:44:52.850
three are absolutely masterpieces and they are all on the list.
1946
01:44:52.949 --> 01:45:00.199
So, um, Okay, so another movie from France. There was
1947
01:45:00.260 --> 01:45:03.649
a set that Bleeding Skull put out, I think it
1948
01:45:03.659 --> 01:45:06.069
was this year, earlier this year.
1949
01:45:06.090 --> 01:45:07.489
I think it was, yeah.
1950
01:45:08.010 --> 01:45:13.329
And it was the films of Antoine Polissier. And there's
1951
01:45:14.630 --> 01:45:18.770
a ton of movies on this. That set is unbelievable.
1952
01:45:19.369 --> 01:45:20.680
That is an embarrassment of riches.
1953
01:45:22.029 --> 01:45:25.409
I think it's like 540 minutes of his movies or something.
1954
01:45:25.850 --> 01:45:29.390
One of the movies is like three hours long on
1955
01:45:29.430 --> 01:45:30.170
its own.
1956
01:45:31.909 --> 01:45:34.449
That's true. I'm just checking if there's still standards available.
1957
01:45:35.550 --> 01:45:42.489
To me, Folie Motrier and the films of Antoine Pellissier
1958
01:45:43.029 --> 01:45:47.270
is the must-buy of must-buys if you're into any kind
1959
01:45:47.310 --> 01:45:54.119
of outsider art. You can't have a more slam-dunk it's
1960
01:45:54.199 --> 01:46:00.079
somewhere between Jean Roland and like.
1961
01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:05.199
I don't know I don't know it's so fucking crazy
1962
01:46:05.779 --> 01:46:09.689
and I so the only one of that set I
1963
01:46:09.729 --> 01:46:13.729
had seen before they released it was I'm not even
1964
01:46:13.750 --> 01:46:16.289
going to try to say it but the title film
1965
01:46:17.489 --> 01:46:19.649
of that and.
1966
01:46:21.189 --> 01:46:25.640
What What a fucking banger, man. I think I had
1967
01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:30.050
initially discovered that movie through... What is it?
1968
01:46:30.250 --> 01:46:32.289
Somebody had made a list on Letterboxd that got a
1969
01:46:32.350 --> 01:46:36.890
lot of traction. It was the Murder Drone... Is that
1970
01:46:36.909 --> 01:46:38.729
what it was? I think it was the Murder Drone list.
1971
01:46:39.550 --> 01:46:47.489
And whoever coined that phrase is an absolute genius. Because
1972
01:46:47.529 --> 01:46:52.310
if you say... Murder Drone, right? That's like Splatterpunk. You
1973
01:46:52.329 --> 01:46:54.409
know exactly what you're getting into, I feel like.
1974
01:46:54.430 --> 01:46:56.729
As soon as I read the words Murder Drone, I
1975
01:46:56.750 --> 01:46:58.310
was like, I know exactly what this guy means.
1976
01:46:58.439 --> 01:47:00.560
And when you look at the list, it's Day of
1977
01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:07.479
the Reaper, Agraff, Fully, Satan.
1978
01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:12.460
War, Devil's Story, like, Quisted Issues, Michael J. Murphy's Bloodstream. Like,
1979
01:47:12.939 --> 01:47:17.840
these movies all share that droning....
1980
01:47:18.069 --> 01:47:23.069
Sort of mind melting quality along with just balls to
1981
01:47:23.090 --> 01:47:28.289
the wall murder. So yeah, just so great. And I
1982
01:47:28.329 --> 01:47:32.600
think it's great that both Ogroff and Foley's, uh, are
1983
01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:35.199
side by side on that original list. So it just,
1984
01:47:35.739 --> 01:47:37.720
the stars really aligned on this one.
1985
01:47:38.300 --> 01:47:42.359
Oh yeah. So we're gonna, we're going to cover those
1986
01:47:42.420 --> 01:47:45.960
two movies. We're going to celebrate bleeding skull, And we're
1987
01:47:45.979 --> 01:47:48.340
going to do our best to get the creators of
1988
01:47:48.380 --> 01:47:51.819
Bleeding Skull on to talk about these two masterpieces.
1989
01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:53.310
And I'm going to do my best to learn how
1990
01:47:53.350 --> 01:47:54.250
to pronounce all these things.
1991
01:47:54.970 --> 01:47:55.329
You will.
1992
01:47:55.569 --> 01:47:57.510
I believe in you. All right. Thank you. I appreciate you.
1993
01:47:57.829 --> 01:48:01.369
You might even learn French fluently. You have a whole month, man.
1994
01:48:01.609 --> 01:48:03.170
I'm downloading Duolingo right now.
1995
01:48:03.989 --> 01:48:08.760
No. There's all these programs on my IG that are like,
1996
01:48:08.840 --> 01:48:09.800
you want to learn Spanish?
1997
01:48:09.819 --> 01:48:09.899
Yes.
1998
01:48:10.270 --> 01:48:12.869
Three weeks, whatever. Some crazy.
1999
01:48:12.890 --> 01:48:15.739
Do you have 30 seconds a day? We can we
2000
01:48:15.779 --> 01:48:16.619
can teach you Russian.
2001
01:48:17.159 --> 01:48:18.710
Exactly.
2002
01:48:18.930 --> 01:48:19.569
Yeah.
2003
01:48:20.229 --> 01:48:23.909
Yeah, man. Thank you, Bill. This is a lot of
2004
01:48:23.949 --> 01:48:24.529
fun again.
2005
01:48:24.550 --> 01:48:28.069
Well, thank you as always, man. Like I'm like, I
2006
01:48:28.090 --> 01:48:30.130
say it every week, but love that we're taking this
2007
01:48:30.149 --> 01:48:33.909
journey together. And every episode has been more fun than
2008
01:48:33.930 --> 01:48:37.069
the last. So I really can't wait for this next one.
2009
01:48:38.869 --> 01:48:41.750
So I will be hounding you. just for everybody listening,
2010
01:48:42.189 --> 01:48:43.729
I have been trying to get Chris to do this
2011
01:48:43.829 --> 01:48:46.890
bi-weekly instead of monthly. I don't know if you know
2012
01:48:46.930 --> 01:48:49.170
this about him, but he has about 800 podcasts that
2013
01:48:49.189 --> 01:48:49.510
he does.
2014
01:48:50.289 --> 01:48:51.949
You can listen to all of them because they're all great.
2015
01:48:52.649 --> 01:48:54.859
But I'm trying to get him to quit maybe 10
2016
01:48:54.859 --> 01:48:57.039
of them so that he can just commit a little
2017
01:48:57.060 --> 01:48:57.819
bit more time to this.
2018
01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:01.159
I'm going to keep trying. We'll see. We'll see how
2019
01:49:01.180 --> 01:49:01.420
it goes.
2020
01:49:03.020 --> 01:49:03.239
Yeah.
2021
01:49:03.539 --> 01:49:10.239
I'm not totally opposed. I think there's a 2% chance
2022
01:49:10.310 --> 01:49:12.609
that Sean Baker listens to this because he follows us
2023
01:49:12.670 --> 01:49:15.470
on Instagram. So shout out to Sean. If you do,
2024
01:49:15.510 --> 01:49:16.350
we'd love to have you on.
2025
01:49:17.310 --> 01:49:18.270
Absolutely.
2026
01:49:18.569 --> 01:49:21.270
We can be found on Instagram at brain milk podcast,
2027
01:49:21.550 --> 01:49:24.029
and we're trying something. You're going to have to be
2028
01:49:24.069 --> 01:49:27.789
patient with us because we both suck at the internet,
2029
01:49:28.329 --> 01:49:33.960
but there's a Patreon too, which is patreon.com slash C,
2030
01:49:34.060 --> 01:49:37.159
which I think all Patreons have that. And then slash
2031
01:49:37.279 --> 01:49:42.930
brain milk podcast. and you'll see there's one chat in there.
2032
01:49:42.989 --> 01:49:46.229
We'll figure out what to post. And the idea is
2033
01:49:46.289 --> 01:49:49.470
just that eventually we're going to put Bill's master list
2034
01:49:49.550 --> 01:49:51.590
up there. And eventually we're going to put, you know,
2035
01:49:51.630 --> 01:49:53.890
some articles and some different crazy movies that we've seen
2036
01:49:53.930 --> 01:49:56.630
and we're going to be more active on it. But
2037
01:49:56.670 --> 01:49:58.989
the idea is to just keep a record of this stuff.
2038
01:49:59.029 --> 01:50:00.479
So it's a little bit easier to have it in
2039
01:50:00.569 --> 01:50:03.079
one place, but it should be free always. I mean,
2040
01:50:03.100 --> 01:50:05.000
there were, let me just say it this way. There
2041
01:50:05.020 --> 01:50:06.859
will always be a free tier. We're not trying to
2042
01:50:06.880 --> 01:50:10.850
get rich off this. It's just a place to consolidate everything. Yeah.
2043
01:50:10.970 --> 01:50:12.170
I mean, the more I think about it, the more
2044
01:50:12.189 --> 01:50:14.329
I'm like, I want to use it as a way
2045
01:50:14.350 --> 01:50:19.350
of like continuing the conversation about some of these writing
2046
01:50:19.390 --> 01:50:20.970
blurbs and stuff. I would even love it if there
2047
01:50:21.010 --> 01:50:23.010
was a way. I mean, again, we suck at the Internet.
2048
01:50:23.090 --> 01:50:27.229
I especially suck at the Internet. But I would love
2049
01:50:27.250 --> 01:50:30.789
to hear comments or get into conversations with people who
2050
01:50:30.869 --> 01:50:35.109
may be listening and have opinions on these movies. You know,
2051
01:50:35.149 --> 01:50:37.760
tell us what you think. Um, go to our Instagram,
2052
01:50:38.060 --> 01:50:41.060
leave some comments. Um, if, if you discovered a movie
2053
01:50:41.100 --> 01:50:42.899
through us and you, and you liked it or you
2054
01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:43.319
hated it.
2055
01:50:43.420 --> 01:50:44.560
I want to know, I want to hear it.
2056
01:50:45.229 --> 01:50:50.310
Like the fact that our episodes are clocking 70 to
2057
01:50:50.329 --> 01:50:51.750
a hundred people.
2058
01:50:51.550 --> 01:50:52.329
Listening, like.
2059
01:50:53.810 --> 01:50:55.890
That, that sounds like small potatoes to some people, but
2060
01:50:55.930 --> 01:50:58.670
to me, that's just huge. Like the fact that there's
2061
01:50:59.770 --> 01:51:02.109
more than a dozen of you out there listening just really, uh,
2062
01:51:03.909 --> 01:51:07.409
makes my day. So, uh, Huge appreciation, too, if you're
2063
01:51:07.430 --> 01:51:08.229
taking this journey with us.
2064
01:51:08.869 --> 01:51:11.050
Oh, yeah, man. And I'm going to do something that's
2065
01:51:11.069 --> 01:51:12.670
going to make you laugh. And I want other people
2066
01:51:12.720 --> 01:51:15.039
to go check this out. There's a comment on one
2067
01:51:15.079 --> 01:51:19.840
of our posts on Instagram that someone's trying to introduce
2068
01:51:19.899 --> 01:51:22.479
us to one of their friends who's really shy. And
2069
01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:25.909
we can reach out to her on Snap. Yeah, go
2070
01:51:25.939 --> 01:51:28.220
check it out. Go check out our Instagram. I tagged
2071
01:51:28.239 --> 01:51:30.899
you as I said, hey, you can have this one.
2072
01:51:30.939 --> 01:51:33.119
It seems legit. So go check it out.
2073
01:51:33.140 --> 01:51:35.119
Oh, that's too funny. All right. Yeah, I'm going to
2074
01:51:35.140 --> 01:51:35.560
check that out.
2075
01:51:36.699 --> 01:51:40.159
Anybody else wants to go talk to a shy friend?
2076
01:51:40.199 --> 01:51:42.340
I'm sure there's nothing shady about it. I'm sure it's
2077
01:51:42.380 --> 01:51:42.819
all legit.
2078
01:51:43.500 --> 01:51:46.699
Yeah, it's 100% above board. And yeah, I'm sure they're
2079
01:51:46.720 --> 01:51:48.000
not going to be asking us for money or anything.
2080
01:51:48.619 --> 01:51:52.310
Yeah. All right, man. See you soon. And I don't
2081
01:51:52.329 --> 01:51:53.670
know if I'm quite ready to say see you in
2082
01:51:53.689 --> 01:51:56.109
two weeks. Definitely see you next month. And we'll see
2083
01:51:56.149 --> 01:51:57.899
if we can't crack away to see you in two weeks.
2084
01:51:58.600 --> 01:51:59.119
Yeah, for sure.
2085
01:51:59.199 --> 01:52:02.600
I just need you to keep plugging away at Joe
2086
01:52:02.619 --> 01:52:05.340
and Annie and convince them to be on our October episode.
2087
01:52:05.380 --> 01:52:07.300
And then all will be well.
2088
01:52:07.680 --> 01:52:08.460
Putting out the good vibes.
2089
01:52:08.479 --> 01:52:09.439
That's right.
2090
01:52:09.460 --> 01:52:11.220
All right.
2091
01:52:11.279 --> 01:52:19.250
Take it easy, man. Thank you for listening. To hear
2092
01:52:19.310 --> 01:52:23.250
more shows from the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network, please
2093
01:52:23.289 --> 01:52:24.689
select the link in the description.
2094
01:52:37.270 --> 01:52:40.710
Greetings, welcome to Two in the Pinku podcast. Experience a
2095
01:52:40.770 --> 01:52:45.180
deep dive into softcore Japanese sexploitation cinema from the 60s
2096
01:52:45.270 --> 01:52:49.949
up until the present. With an emphasis on sleaze and seduction.
2097
01:52:51.029 --> 01:52:53.930
We are monthly or bi-weekly and we're not even bi.
2098
01:52:56.819 --> 01:52:58.859
Will Pink Film save our marriage?
2099
01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:12.489
Find out on 2 and the Pinkoo Podcast. The Audio
2100
01:53:12.609 --> 01:53:16.159
Commentary It's a dying art form, but here at One
2101
01:53:16.220 --> 01:53:20.770
Track Mind, I, your wonky yet affable host, Ryan Luis Rodriguez,
2102
01:53:21.270 --> 01:53:25.289
analyze film through the prism of these embryonic forms of podcasting,
2103
01:53:25.989 --> 01:53:33.060
one audio commentary at a time. Masterpieces, crapsterpieces, live action, animation,
2104
01:53:33.180 --> 01:53:37.020
cult classics, films literally no one has ever heard of.
2105
01:53:37.539 --> 01:53:40.739
No track is too small, and no track is too big.
2106
01:53:41.300 --> 01:53:44.300
Join me and my guests from the entertainment world as
2107
01:53:44.340 --> 01:53:48.899
we keep these features alive every other Tuesday. Hey, who
2108
01:53:48.970 --> 01:53:51.510
else is going to discuss Bill & Ted's bogus journey
2109
01:53:51.609 --> 01:53:56.449
one week, and Citizen Kane the next? Us, that's who. Sure,
2110
01:53:56.470 --> 01:53:58.329
you have to put up with my voice, but there's
2111
01:53:58.390 --> 01:54:01.649
a certain give and take in this industry. That's One
2112
01:54:01.710 --> 01:54:05.420
Track Mind, part of the Someone's Favorite Productions family, and
2113
01:54:05.460 --> 01:54:07.720
available wherever you get your podcasts.