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Welcome to the Bless Our Mess Podcast, dedicated to strengthening marriages, families, and mental health.
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Taylor is a licensed therapist that brings his life's work and experiences to these crucial conversations.
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Life has its way of getting messy, so remember to join us, and together we can bless our mess.
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Welcome back to the Bless Our Mess podcast.
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I hope everybody is having a blessed day.
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The other day I was meeting with multiple clients that were really, really frustrated with the defiant behaviors of their ADHD child.
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You know, one was saying, my seven-year-old, they swear, they hit, slap, they throw things.
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He doesn't do his homework, bathe, or get dressed, or clean up without, you know, these major battles.
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He doesn't care about consequences, but will throw a massive fit if I take away electronics.
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This mother was overwhelmed.
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She's like, I just don't know how much more of this I can take.
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Another client was saying, you know, nothing works with my child.
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He hasn't seen his electronics in months.
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He will miss out on all of the fun activities, but he just doesn't seem like he has any remorse, right?
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She's tried rewards, points, praising, um, consequencing, ignoring the behavior, and none of her attempts have were were successful, um which leaves her feeling like a failed parent.
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So in today's episode, I wanted to cover a little bit about the ADHD, um, why we see the misbehaviors, and maybe even start to dive into some solutions for you as well.
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Because children with with ADHD might also have oppositional defiant disorder, ODD.
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Um, and this is the ODD takes the behavior to a whole nother level.
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Right?
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They exhibit a pattern of um being angry, violent, and disruptive.
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And this conduct is targeted toward parents, caretakers, and other um authority figures, like such as teachers and things.
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Um, and these children that take it to a whole nother level, they feel most comfortable.
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At least it seems like they feel most comfortable in the midst of a conflict, which is obviously upsetting and exhausting for everyone involved, including the child.
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However, it, you know, again, today I'm hoping that we can identify what is causing some of the misbehavior, uh, understand why traditional discipline won't work for angry ADHD kids, um, and maybe take a look at some of the common problems and solutions, you know, such as lying, hitting meltdowns, um, and how we can address some of those so we can increase quality of life for the whole family.
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Right.
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So if you are kind of nervous, though, we'll kind of go over some of the things that um ODD kids exhibit.
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But if you're nervous about that, obviously my recommendation is to seek out a professional to make sure that diagnoses are correct, and that way you can also explore uh treatment options with them.
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So 40% of children with ADHD, they also develop ODD.
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And this is really kind of defined by chronic aggression, you know, frequent outbursts, um, nearly argue all the time, they ignore requests, and they purposely irritate others.
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So every parent that I have worked with that has a child with attention deficit, they know what it's like to deal with problematic behaviors.
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Where their child is saying no to requests, they melt down over, you know, transitioning, say from home to school or school to home or home to the grocery store, right?
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They have troubles with their transitions, um, they'll blurt out rude words, they seem you know insensitive to other people's feelings.
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So any child can fall into a um into an aggressive or irritating mood from time to time.
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Uh, however, to have ODD, a child must show a pattern of these negative behaviors, show a pattern of being hostile and defiant, and and that pattern needs to last for a minimum of six months.
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So an ODD child will often, you know, they lose their temper, argue with adults, actively defy requests to follow rules, or to even you know, follow the rules set by adults.
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They deliberately annoy people and blame others for their misbehaviors.
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So children with ODD, um, they themselves are often easily annoyed by others, and then they become angry, resentful, and vindictive.
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So um, I had a couple examples of some clients.
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A four-year-old, their four-year-old would almost seem gleeful by annoying her parents by blasting the TV at top volume as soon as the four-year-old would wake up.
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I had another client who's seven-year-old who would shout no to every request and would be verbally abusive toward mother, especially, which would then trigger the anger in dad because he didn't want his child being disrespectful to others, but especially his wife, right?
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Someone who was once his girlfriend.
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You know, he wants her to be treated with respect.
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And so it would trigger anger in the dad.
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And as you can imagine, that would then escalate to these major arguments in the home.
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And I had another client who's 11-year-old would be going around punching holes in the wall or physically assaulting siblings and even the mother sometimes.
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So, you know, experts are still studying why ODD and ADHD so commonly overlap, but some of these experts believe that it is tied to the ADHD-related symptom of impulsivity, right?
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Or at least a manifestation of the frustration uh and emotional pain of having ADHD.
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Right.
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Some of these kids with ADHD, they are extremely frustrated and they feel a deep sense of emotional pain because they start to recognize I'm not like other kids.
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I'm I have these difficulties, right?
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And so some of the other uh, and so they believe that impulsivity is is the expression of the difficulties of having ADHD.
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Other experts note that flexibility, adaptability, and problem solving, these are all skills that help regulate emotions and are severely lacking in most children with ADHD.
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So about half of all preschoolers diagnosed with ODD, they will outgrow the problem by age eight.
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Older kids with the condition are less likely to leave it behind in adolescence.
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So if they start a little later in showing it, they're most likely going to start showing it through some of the adolescent years.
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But any child that shows signs of ODD, right, again, they need appropriate treatment by psychiatrist, psychologists, therapists, you know, who are that's their specialty, right?
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So again, if you suspect that your child has some of this stuff, consult with professionals, get them involved, um, get your child involved too in in helping identify someone they relate with.
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That way you know the services are going to be accepted by your child because they had a kind of say in the matter.
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Um because if it's left untreated, it can lead to conduct disorder later on or even even more serious problems.
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Okay.
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So again, seek professionals if you feel like ODD is a thing.
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I just wanted to preface today's episode with all of that because there is a strong overlap, and sometimes kids go misdiagnosed.
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Um, in fact, a lot of times kids go um misdiagnosed because it's it's so difficult, right?
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They're learning, they're growing.
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Some of the behaviors are age typical because their brains are still forming, their prefrontal cortex, their umotional regulation skills are being developed, you know, and so some of the behaviors are age appropriate, and and so sometimes it can get misdiagnosed.
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So I wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about why kids misbehave.
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Uh, experts in defiant behavior point to two dominant reasons for misbehavior.
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The first is there is an expectation that bad behavior will help the child obtain something they want.
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So children often throw a tantrum because they know that if they act out long enough or intense enough, the parents will relent, they will back down, they will give in, they will give up and buy the candy, or let them play more video games, or let them watch the TV show that they want, or play longer with friends, right?
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Here's the crucial thing to remember about this is it doesn't have to work every time.
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But even if it works, say five percent of the time, so 95% of the time, you know, you as a parent, you're on your A game, five percent of the time kids learn that you know, defiance can lead to success in getting the things they want.
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So for this type of behavior, routines and clear consequences can definitely help.
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Uh, the second reason for kids misbehaving is the existence of a problem that a child doesn't have the skills to solve.
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So kids with ADHD, they face immense emotional control challenges.
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So when confronted with a difficulty, they have a very limited tolerance for frustration.
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And this can escalate and lead to um like quick and startling outbursts or prolonged meltdowns.
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They are overwhelmed by their emotions and need help to regulate those emotions, though they seldom welcome the assistance, right?
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Which makes it really frustrating because as parents we want to help, but they're really resistant to the help.
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So this type of you know, defiance is rejecting that parental authority or any other authority figure, right?
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Maybe a teacher tries to step in to help, you know, whatever, right?
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So we see that resistance.
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So parents need to think about what expectation uh a child is struggling to meet and help them find solutions to the root cause.
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Okay.
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So in addition to these two primary motivations, children also act out for some of these following reasons.
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Um, the rules are different, right?
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When the rules are different at home, at school, at friends' house, at grandma's house, at the babysitter's house, um, kids might act out just to test the limits and see what they can get away with in different circumstances.
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Right.
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However, children with ADHD, they thrive and need structure and routine to keep their behaviors in check.
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So all of these constant rules and changing uh, you know, the changing rules in these different environments, um they it leaves them feeling off balance and like they are struggling to catch up in life, right?
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So consistent, familiar behavioral expectations and consequences help them feel safe and secure, helps them feel less stressed because they can now anticipate what is going to happen, right?
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So they they understand the expectation and it's so much easier for them to follow it.
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So what follows with this, with um these consistent, familiar behavioral expectations and consequences is a more relaxed child.
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They're more relaxed and efficient at home, they have fewer outbursts.
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Another reason is maybe the rules aren't clear or they don't make sense to the child.
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Family rules for behavior should be uh agreed upon by both parents.
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That's a that's a common one where mom might have a different expectation from dad, and vice versa.
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And so mom and dad aren't necessarily on the same page of the small nuances of the rules, right?
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So make sure, right, we're agreed upon by both parents.
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Um and these family rules need to be explained clearly in a way that children can understand them.
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Children need to know why a rule is in place for everyone's well-being and safety.
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So make sure you uh you know you're being specific about what constitutes good and bad behavior.
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You know, for example, if you say, you know, no running on the stairs or you know no eating on the couch, you know, you can punish a child for scooting down them on his butt, you know.
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But in instead, make the rule like we walk down the stairs, not what not the absence of what we do, right?
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We don't do that.
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Make it about what we do, right?
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Then it is also helpful to write these down and post them in a in a place where the children can see them regularly.
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Other reasons for misbehavior, when children are hungry, bored, or overtired, they are likely to break down and misbehave.
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To avoid tantrums and outbursts, uh, you know, start to document or take note when your child is having temper flare-ups and try to figure out what is really causing the issue.
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You know, hangry is a thing.
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And if your child is starting to um act up, you can use the acronym HALT, right?
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When you look at the behavior, you can then say HALT and start to ask yourself, are they hungry?
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Are they angry?
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Are they lonely?
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Are they tired?
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Right?
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Because usually those will trigger some of the misbehavior if they're hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
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Okay.
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That's where you can start asking yourself, did they skip lunch?
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Did they stay up too late last night?
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And as you start to figure it out, then you can put a routine in place that avoids the trouble area and starts to fulfill the unmet need.
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So if a kid acts out when they are bored, bring entertainment when you know there will be downtime.
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And that doesn't mean you know you have to have a smartphone or an iPad or a Nintendo Switch or whatever, but just something they can do.
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Maybe a notepad and paper to um or pencil to doodle and draw and create or a coloring book or you know, fun activities in that way.
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If hunger is a trigger, make sure there's snacks readily on hand that make it easy for your daily schedule and easy for grab and go for them, right?
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Um, another one, and this one's huge.
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Another reason for misbehavior is they are trying to assert their independence.
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When younger children start to learn new skills, they want to do more things on their own.
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So this means taking, uh trying to take control over areas that parents used to dictate, like when they when they want to brush their teeth, what they want to eat, when to go to sleep.
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You know, so to avoid um these meltdowns surrounding these or these kind of showdowns between like you're gonna do it when I say, and they're going, no, I'll do it when I want.
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Start giving children options to choose uh throughout the day.
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Right.
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So this will help them feel in control in a positive way without needing to rebel.
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So brushing the teeth.
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Hey, do you want to brush your teeth now or do you want to brush your teeth after your electronic time?
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Right.
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And now that still helps them feel independent because it's the choice I get to make, but at the same time, you are accomplishing your goal, right?
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So start offering them um some options to choose from because this helps them feel in control in a very positive way.
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Um and you know, with rebellious teens, they may intentionally break down or break rules to demonstrate that parents can't regulate their behavior.
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Right.
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So try making the family structure more democratic with teens so they feel like they are heard, and then create a contract where you give or or where you each agree to fulfill certain responsibilities.
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Right.
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So as they do get older, I mean, you you think about that there are these either formal or unformal contracts in adulthood where there's these understandings of you do these things and you get these things, right?
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You show up to work, you do your work, and I will pay you in two weeks.
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Right.
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So as they move in toward adulthood, we also want to adjust our parenting um to help prepare them for that, right?
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So we want to start mimicking that.
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Um another reason for misbehavior, they're trying to grab your attention.
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Okay.
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Um, and so children will often act out when you are focusing your energies somewhere else.
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So maybe you're on the phone or visiting with a friend.
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That's the moment that your child decides to hit his little brother or say a rude comment or make a mess somewhere, right?
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The motivation behind it is attention seeking.
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So to avoid outbursts of this nature, get in the habit of providing your child with positive attention.
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So when kids learn, they will be acknowledged.
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More for being a little, you know, to for being compliant or for you know being the little angel of the home, right?
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They they will try to act that way more often.
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Okay.
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So I just wanted to give a little bit of preface to why some of the kids misbehave.
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There were maybe some solutions, but here are some solutions to common discipline problems.
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Okay.
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The standard discipline tactics for behavior, um they often include rewards to encourage good behavior, um, frequent reminders of behavior expectations, consequences that are imposed quickly and consistently when children don't comply.
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So when behavior is more, or I'm sorry, is worse than normal, uh a pair a parent's natural instinct is to tighten the rules, to increase discipline, to become more stern than usual.
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But for angry ADHD and ODD children, cracking down isn't always the best way to turn things around.
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So I would like to offer up some solutions that are specific to common behaviors with uh the problematic behaviors of ADHD children.
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So, problem one afternoon meltdowns are aggravated by discipline, right?
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One of my clients was saying, you know, my child will throw a huge tantrum when they get home from school.
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When I give them a consequence for acting out, they only become more agitated and the acting out escalates and escalates and escalates.
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So a solution for this, um children with ADHD, they experience more stress than your typical child.
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And they are experiencing not only more stress, they're experiencing it more often and for longer periods of time.
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So a lot of them are experiencing higher levels of stress all day, not just part of the day.
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Okay.
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They will expend more energy trying to pay attention, sit still, and manage and rein in impulsive behaviors than your typical kid.
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So teachers might start to label them as aggressive, as bullies or troublemakers.
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And as a result, they might be punished more at school because of the, you know, because of these behaviors at school.
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And so after all of those challenges during the day, children can build up these frustrations, these irritations, these tensions that release as these violent meltdowns once they are home.
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So here's how you can kind of help your child avoid those afternoon meltdowns.
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Demonstrate understanding, right?
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And that's the first thing we can do.
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When disciplining an angry or defiant child, it helps to remember that most behavior stems from strong emotions, those strong, stressful emotions that they're experiencing all day.
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Kids often can't articulate the feelings of these complex frustrations.
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So instead, they express them through tantrums or defiance or through their negative behaviors.
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So understandably, parents often react to a child's misbehavior, you know, with the punishments and things like that, but neglect to address the feelings fueling the fire.
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So to stop a meltdown in its tracks, parents should stop and start to ask thoughtful questions to help a child feel understood.
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Once they start to feel understood, you'll notice their emotions start to die down.
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That doesn't mean we're going into this coddling, like overly nurturing parent mode.
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No, we're we're just approaching it from a stable emotional standpoint of hey man, what's going on?
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I see you're angry, I see you're upset, you know, stuff like that.
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The next is don't crack down.
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We don't need to crack down.
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Defiant children, remember, they they will reject and rebel against parental authority.
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So at this point, right, it it becomes a battle.
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So becoming more authoritative with punishment, it doesn't diffuse the situation.
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It most likely will escalate it.
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Um likewise, traditional parenting techniques like spanking or things like that, they're they don't help either.
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The same children that lash out are often very emotionally hypersensitive.
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So physical acts of discipline can cause significant emotional hurt.
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Um they won't teach their child how to behave better next time, right?
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Those those parental tactics.
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Um, all that will really do is increase fear and resentment toward you as the parent, which makes it so much more difficult in the future for them to listen to you when you're when you are making requests for them to calm down and stuff like that.
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All that resentment will come out, and so they end up escalating.
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Uh, the third option here is suspend logic, right?
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The latest brain research helps make sense of misbehavior.
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Okay, when kids are in the the depths of a big emotion, their emotional uh right brain is in charge.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:29.599
Uh so we usually, as parents, respond to their outbursts with logic and reason, which are left brain traits.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:37.519
Uh, the bottom line is that these opposite sides of the brain can't work together in that moment.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:46.400
So when you learn a specific way of acknowledging emotions, the two sides of the brain can work together.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.039
Right?
00:28:47.200 --> 00:29:05.440
So you are suspending your logic of like, hey, bud, you know, like all you did was lose Xbox for 10 minutes, like shouldn't be doing this, you know, something like that, or well, you shouldn't be rude to other kids.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:09.440
And if you're not rude to other kids, then you're not gonna get in trouble, right?
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:14.240
Like that's those are very logical um mindsets.
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:16.799
But when they're emotional, right, they're not hearing that.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.480
And it only feeds the emotion.
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.319
So that's where you help them identify their emotion.
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.720
Hey, what are you feeling right now?
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:31.359
And then once they start to say it, now we're can we're bridging the emotional to the logical.
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:31.839
Okay.
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.559
Next problem simple reminders spark aggression or meltdowns.
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:47.119
I had a client, I've reminded my daughter to put her socks in the hamper, you know, put them in the dirty clothes, um, not on the floor.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:56.000
And I've done this a thousand times, but then I find her on the couch, socks off, you know, reading her book or watching a TV show.
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:59.119
And when I tell her to pick them up, she freaks out.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.440
Something like that, where these simple reminders expart uh spark the aggression or the meltdown.
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.160
So, some solutions to that.
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:16.240
Uh, children with ADHD, they do not respond to nagging.
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:29.359
They either tune out, they become distracted and forget what they are supposed to do, or they respond defiantly that parents can't tell them what to do, right?
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.400
You can't tell me what to do, especially as they get older.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:47.920
Instead, try uh techniques that involve the child, giving some of the authority back and parenting them in this positive way.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:31:10.079
So, this is where there are some of those, you know, a good example of this would be, you know, posting a behavior chart where you explain to your child that you want to nag or yell less as a parent, you know, that you want to have a good relationship with them and you recognize the nagging and yelling is only hurting the relationship.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:11.680
You don't want to do that.
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:27.599
But the child needs to meet you halfway by working with me, collaborate with me on this behavior chart that will serve as a reminder to both of us of the behaviors that need to be done without nagging.
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:28.480
Right.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:36.480
Um, set some expectations, agree on positive and negative consequences for each behavior on the chart.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:50.640
You know, for example, if she puts her clothes in the hamper, right, she gets a star on the chart, 10 stars earn her extra time watching her favorite show or playing her favorite game or um, you know, spending time with friends.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:57.519
Negative consequences would be, you know, going to bed 10 minutes early, 15 minutes early.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:05.279
You know, this type of discipline puts the two of you on the same team rather than you against them and them against you.
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.920
It's going, no, we're going to figure this out together.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:13.119
This ties back into that desire for independence that I mentioned earlier.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:29.440
So when it does come time to have to consequence, it puts the responsibility in your child's court, since ways to avoid them were clearly outlined previously, and they actually helped decide the consequences.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:36.400
When they help decide the consequences, they're more likely to accept the consequence.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:40.880
It's usually when you try to impose a consequence that they don't feel like they deserved, right?
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.200
That that'll trigger a meltdown.
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.759
Um, and the third solution for this would be to police yourself.
00:32:48.480 --> 00:33:00.160
Take it one step further and you know, add uh your own behaviors to the chart or create your own behavior chart um for you as the parents.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:05.039
And examples of this would be, you know, keep track of when you nag.
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:10.000
Define it as repeating a request more than twice.
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:12.960
So it's okay to go, hey, remember to do this.
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:18.559
Hey, remember to do this, but anything after that, it's now considered nagging, right?
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.079
Um and without giving consequence.
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:30.559
So when you catch yourself nagging and you try to stop it, your child will see you make these conscious efforts to progress.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:43.519
And that is such a huge kind of unspoken message that reminds your child not to give up on their own challenges, right?
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:52.559
Because you they see you facing one, acknowledging your challenge, your challenging behavior, and then challenging the challenging behavior, right?
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.440
So, oh man, I could keep going.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:14.239
We got a tons of stuff, but a lot of this information today was covered and included in the most recent course that was just published in uh on our website, tailoredtherapy.com.
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:14.880
Okay.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.679
You can go there, it's super reasonable.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:32.079
Like for about the price of an insurance copay, you can get an in-depth look on um being able to parent these problematic behaviors of ADHD children, right?
00:34:32.480 --> 00:35:19.360
We dive into not just more in-depth on these problems, but problems where consequences don't work, solutions for that, um uh solutions to the problem of feeling like a broken record, um, how to discipline children who lie, um, the problems with escalating, you know, uh lies and dangerous behavior, the solutions to those, uh, what to do if your child becomes physically aggressive, they start to hit or they start to break things and act out, um, how to how to defuse meltdowns, um, what to do when you as a parent feel like having a meltdown.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:30.880
Uh, we'll also kind of jump into some like 15 solutions to stop defiant behaviors, like when it's happening, like in its tracks, right?
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.559
Like not after they defuse and all of that stuff.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.119
Like, we can get it to stop then.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:36:01.119
And all of this is, you know, clinically researched and sh proven parenting approaches to help the treatment for ADHD, or at least the parenting behavior that we can take upon ourselves to help these children, you know, better manage their ADHD symptoms and things.
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:16.239
So um, yeah, so if you're really interested in in delving more into this more in depth with tangible kind of these hands-on solutions, check us out at tailoredtherapy.com.
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:24.480
I appreciate all of the Bless Our Mess audience and um so grateful for you.
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:27.360
And I really do hope that you're having a blessed day.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.719
If this has resonated with you, please share it with your people.
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.519
Can't thank you enough for the love and support of the show, and we'll catch you on the next Therapy Thursday.
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:41.280
Thank you for joining us on the Bless Our Mess podcast.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:46.320
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00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:52.719
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00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:59.440
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