"Is Nathan The Best Ever?"

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Okay, kurb another episode of Backstage post Grand Final. Firstly, hell of a season. Great another great season well under the players, the clubs and the NRL London.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: It was that anentertaining it some of the some of the games we saw this year. The quality of rugby league. It just keeps getting better and better every year, it really does. Ever since, ever since the Landy's has taken over, he's got a great knack for understanding what the what the game needs, doesn't He like six again rule came in and that really changed the game. It made it faster. He just keeps innovating the game and making it that's good spectacle.

00:00:35
Speaker 1: And people on the Independent Commission too, there's a lot of people like Wayne Pierce to come up with the bell sound for the six again. Although see when I first heard the six again and how it was going to operate with the bell sound, I thought, oh god, this could this could be a disaster, and it could have been. But it's just what trut sped up. The Rucks made the game fantastic and the game, you know, it continues to rather really important I think for the important thing for the Independent Commission and is they just they just have to be careful of how much information they take off, the coaches and the clubs. Yeah, I've seen the game flying before, remember two thousand and five and two thousand and five is an incredible year, the one that the Tigers won. Yeah, it was a real bias on attack football hands Why it was the North Queensland Cowboys West Tiger's Grand Final. In the off season, the coaches went in and asked for more rights for the defensive side and sure enough the game slowed down a little bit. It's got to keep the course. The players are getting fitter, they can handle the speed of the stud of the speed of the play. Excuse me, I've just climbed out from under a rock after ground final, but as a view like I've crawled out of a of a brewery truck. But yeah, they've just got to stay the course. The lead up to the game, just talk the Grand final coop and all the things have come out of it. The lead up to the game. Did you spend much time with the Melbourne boys? Did you go into camp and see how they're traveling.

00:02:00
Speaker 2: Spread of that magic dust?

00:02:01
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:02:01
Speaker 2: I did, I did. I caught up. I think on the two days before the game. The Storm boys always had a day off, so I went over and caught up, played some cards with a few of the boys. They were good. They were really relaxed. They were really relaxed. I must say actually this year in general, that Storm squad. Years gone past, they've probably been a little bit tense and a bit serious, like not not serious, it's always good to take you football very serious. But they've this year like it's I think it's probably coincided with a little bit less pressure. They've been flying. Harry as a captain, he's very he likes to keep them morale really high. So we're like, you know, always sending funny videos into the WhatsApp group like they're a very connected group. I sent a text to Frank Ponisi after the pre limb last last week and I just said, Doc, like, congratulations on how good the groups go on this I've never seen like it hasn't been this type that squad in a long time, probably since twenty twenty when they won the comp last time. And he said, mate, I appreciate the text, Like we've noticed it too. We've let let sort of the playing group take a bit more ownership of how they want to prepare and sort of how they want to be as a group, and they've Yeah, it's they've handed outstanding year. They were very relaxed, but obviously didn't take the chocolates on Sunday up against a pretty good team mate. They're unbelievable.

00:03:24
Speaker 1: Just dis quickly on you said about Harry, You said about being relaxed, and you face timed him and I just jumped on quickly to say gooday. He was actually sitting on the toilet when you were facetiming.

00:03:34
Speaker 2: On game day.

00:03:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I was a text aff the game and I said, Harry, congratulations on your season. Could congratulations personally on your game? Sometimes when you don't win, you actually still win by the manner in which you held yourself in the way you played. And he said, oh, yeah, thanks very much. He said, we've got a really special group here, a really tight bunch of blokes. We're going to be good.

00:03:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's that's what I mean. You forget because they have so many big game players like Harry Munster Usy. There's months to Hughsy. I believe it's months to Hughsy. Paps and Welche may have been the only ones who were in that Grand Final in twenty twenty. The other others had no final like, no grand final experience. So even Harry, Harry has done so much, one hundred games, you think it's it's it's amazing to think he hasn't actually been in a ground. I couldn't believe.

00:04:21
Speaker 1: But someone said he hadn't played the Grand Final. I was like, come on, he's played, He's.

00:04:24
Speaker 2: Played everything else. But I thought he was unbele He's built for you can someone like Harry was built for the big stage. He played outstanding and he got a couple of young blokes or a few young blokes are about to move into their peak years.

00:04:36
Speaker 1: Trentlely Era had a really good season. And Jack Howarth, Yeah, the egg hatched, he looked, he looked at it. He had a terrific final series, looked great at the back end of the season. Cooper is he a back row or a center?

00:04:50
Speaker 2: I think eventually he'll be a back rower because he's so big, like he will. As you get old, you know, it's like your metabolism slows down. It's harder to stay kind of lean.

00:04:59
Speaker 1: I don't worry.

00:04:59
Speaker 2: I know it, you know, And I'm starting to fear that out too, but I think right for the first at least, I reckon he'll be like Sonny Bill Williams. That's part of the trajectory I see him on in terms of Sunny Bill started in the centers and then after a few years he moved as he got you know, knew the game better and stuff, more experienced, got a bit better football like you moved into the back row. I see that same sort of thing with Jack Howarth also, mate, he's on a similar to Sonny Bill. I could definitely see in three or four years time rugby union sniffing around him, trying to steal him as well he does. He did play at a big union school up in Brisbane BBC Brisbane Boys College, the big union seil out there, so that a world to pinch him.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: Oh mate, Melbourne Storm. I mean they got him out of New Zealand up Melbourne Stork got Nelson out of New Zealand rugby union. He was their best young guy coming through. They got him and the belief was that he had a few years at the Storm and go and went back with Storm. If players, if they were want to keep a player, they very very rarely lose him.

00:06:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you'd be silly sometimes to leave that such a good club like that.

00:06:07
Speaker 1: Coober just before we talking about the game pregame entertainment kidler Roy. I thought it was outstanding.

00:06:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it too. I was at the game. It was a little hard to hear him actually at the game, in terms of it was very loud, people were there's a lot of cheering, there's a lot of fireworks, so in terms of how it sounded, you you couldn't actually hear him in parts. I knew most a lot of his songs anyway, because I've seen him live before, so I enjoyed it. I couldn't believe that a lot of people were calling it NRL's meat loaf.

00:06:35
Speaker 1: It was more to do with the smoke, but still it was very little thing. I mean at the ground, I imagine might have been the smoke might have made a little bit different but or difficult to see him. But I thought he was fantastic. I was watching gu mate, this looks I thought, just the lights and everything around it. I thought the stage, I thought it was really really good. I thought he varied his songs brilliantly, crossing generations, finishing with never terrists apart. I think it was genius. But I thought, all in all, I thought it was Look, I thought it was better than Katy Perry. I listened to me, I did. I thought. I thought, I thought it was better. And I thought the fact that he is a rugby league fan, he's a Waterloo boy, I thought it was just perfect.

00:07:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a nice touch, and it's something that it's the Aussie rock thing has been done so many times. I love Ozzie Rock and I'm a big asy rock fan. Aussie rock is synonymous in rugby league. But I think it was a nice touch to go something different this year and go to the Kid Laurie because typically that kind of pop avenue, isn't you know, they don't really go that A lot of the time. They go for kind of the old Ossie Rock for our rugby league audience. But I like, you know, a hit. Getting someone like the Kid Lauri is just it's a huge game, bringing in.

00:07:43
Speaker 1: That next generation, bringing in that next sort of left of center audience. People would have got there. Yeah, a fringe watcher of the game, some people not even into the game. But he kid Lerroy is gonna be playing. I'll have a look and who knows, and one hang around watch some of the game. It's a good way hooking people in standard of the contest. What did you think?

00:08:03
Speaker 2: I thought it was awesome. I think it was. We spoke about it first our first finals preview. We said, I believe you actually brought it up. Said when a game is when you can watch a game and it's actually quite boring in a sense where they're not doing a lot with the football that first half an hour. If you really look at that game like it was very just simple, four hit ups, kick and it was the ball in playtime that first half an hour, there was so much fatigua out there because there was no stoppages. They weren't kicking it out. There wasn't a lot of errors, or if there was, it was just a quick play the ball, they get on with it. It would have that you could just tell there was so much fatiga out there. The boys were playing so simple.

00:08:42
Speaker 1: Two very disciplined sides. I loved it. Two very very disciplined sides, two very good defensive outfits. It was just going to be a matter of who blink first. It was interesting. Let's talk about that style of football. If just one second coup. You just parked a memory in me. I'm trying to think what year was that. It was not six or nine and eighty seven. I remember me and a kid watching the game. There's a game Kenry Bulldogs up against Cronulla Sharks, right and then when I went to the Newcastle Knights when we're young players, they showed us that game. They said this is how you dismantle an opposition. And the game was a real arm wrestle right backwards and forwards. The Bulldogs kicked long and Crnula were really holding their own. They had a very good side around that eight team. They're holding their own, they're kicking along the oldside their own. They kicked long and it just goes backwards and forward, and it was literally Cooper who blinks first, and suddenly we're twenty minutes ago. One of the Sharks players tried a little chip over the top bang they broke first, and the other night like there's two sides for eighty minutes, neither blink. They're just going backwards and forwards, and it just took little moments of brillants to separate the two sides. I thought, I thought for purists that loves an arm wrestle, loves a tight game. I thought it was terrific.

00:10:00
Speaker 2: I will sorry, Coop, you can I bring up a stat for you right now. I just had to confirm it on Google. So the last twenty fourteen was the last year twenty forte in the first try scorer was Alex Johnson the rabbit O's they went under beat the Bulldogs. Since twenty fourteen, so it's been what ten years, the first try scorer in an Anerrol Grand format has always gone on to win. So when Harry Grant scored the first try in this year, I actually said to everyone around me, I said that, I said, Melbourne is going to win. Like, of the last decade, no team has ever not scored first and lost. The only other time was twenty thirteen George de Fullest scored and the Rooster's ended up beating the Seagulls. But so you can just tell, like if you start the game, like obviously how physical that first half an hour was, But if you start well in Grand finals, yeah, like it gives you such an advantage. Credit to Penrith well be able to turn that stat around.

00:10:55
Speaker 1: Well, Cooper just shows you how good Penrith are the fact that they didn't panic and they just held their nerve and they just continued on their path and held Melbourne till to kneel after that try shows I'm in full competitions in a row and this Grand Final will be remembered as Penrith going for in a row. The grand finals that really last the test of time are the close finishes, the grand stand finishes. They're the ones that people look back in time and go, Wow, what a Grand final. This was a great game. But when people talk about the greatest Grand Finals, I won't talk about this one because it was more of a grind. You talk about eighty to nine, you're talking about twenty fifteen, and talked about last year twenty twenty three. They're the ones are stick in the memory, not because they are a tougher contest or anything had a more exciting finish. Grand stam finish day A night Grand final, Coop, You've only ever seen night grand finals? Having it? I saw?

00:11:46
Speaker 2: I believe was it Seagulls and Warriors? Was that one of the last ones that they played? In?

00:11:50
Speaker 1: Twilight? Twilight Gap Twilight See?

00:11:52
Speaker 2: I like the Twilight too. I think seven thirty is just too late. See, I would love an afternoon or a twilight. I'm either, I can't see. I don't like it that late. I think it's I think that afternoon's just it just gives a different spectacle. It's a little bit drier, there's a little bit more footy being played. But I just think people like an early start, early finish.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: The high skilled, fast players come to the four. When it's a day game of football, granted, like, let's your fingers crossed, it's not going to be wet, it's not even pouring rain. But afternoon ground finals produce much faster, open games of football. Whereas you know, when you get a night Grand final, there's been some ripper night grands finals, but when you get two sides that are just really really tough, great in the grind, then it's going to be as we saw the other night, it's going to be a tough arm us, which I like. But bringing in again not the Zealot rugby league person. You love the fast games. You know, there's really up tempo, plenty of plenty of points called tough games. But that's why I like the day ground final. I like day grand finals, first second and third, Twilight was neither here nor there as Twilight is.

00:13:06
Speaker 2: Twilight the movie shocking as well. I just wanted to ask, obviously night is for the TV ratings, is that correct? How much different is the afternoon TV ratings tonight? Because I in my head, I think I would rather watch it in an afternoon on TV as opposed tonight.

00:13:24
Speaker 1: It won't be at the moment until they go back to till they test to an after new Grand Final night might be more ratings, but I'm telling you now, I reckon there's more eyeballs on the game than there is with a night Grand Final because younger people sitting, kids will sit and watch the game. Because what it is when I say that WALSTA writing ratings might not be as high, there's as many eyeballs because people are watching at the part of barbecues and pubs and things like that. They're having celebrations through the day. And that's what it was. It was a real Grand Final. Day was a real event. It'd start the football would start about ten thirty in the morning with the under twenty ones and they go through through the day. It was just it was awesome.

00:14:07
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. I suppose more people are at home because it's getting late. People might have school or something.

00:14:12
Speaker 1: Now people will count of me and they'll say, yeah, but a day Grand Final. Let's go to nine and eighty six paramounta one four to two, but five meter rule slow rucks, and it was in the defensive era of the game, mate fast drucks, ten meter rule. This type of attacking players we've got now, it'll be that'd rattle up plenty of points, big moments in the game.

00:14:35
Speaker 2: Coup.

00:14:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: Probably the first thing that comes to mind, which is the most controversial thing right now, the Jack Howarth no try?

00:14:44
Speaker 1: What did Jack? What did Jack and the players say after the game?

00:14:47
Speaker 2: No, No, they were pretty good after the game. They sort of they said it was it wasn't no try on initial look. The problem was what they put on the big screen at the game. They put they put it an angle on there that looked like it was a try. They had another wrangle, which obviously they can see in the bunker. They've got so many cameras they can see it. They didn't put that one on the big screen for everyone to see where you could see the underneath the ball, which obviously was made. Everyone quite filthy, which is annoying at the time because you feel you feel as a fan of the Storm. A lot of the Storm fans felt robbed until they released the They did release the footage on social media afterwards for everyone to see, but because even some of the Storm people went up to the ref after the game and asked him, oh and Graham and Isley the Boss shows showed him the angle and they said, okay, that's fine. The big screen really did at the game it looked bad.

00:15:40
Speaker 1: We're sitting there with the skulls our neighbors, We're watching the game, and we all went, oh my god, to try it because they put the camera on Jack Howarth. As it come up on the big screen and he punched the air. We thought, wow, he scored it.

00:15:51
Speaker 2: And even the commentators said the same thing. Joey said, wow, to try and as soon as you come up, no til you went. Even when the commentators, a lot of people get their gauge off. What the the commentator's reaction, that's scary. Yeah, when Joey's watching. Ah. So it did spark a lot of controversy. Obviously it wasn't a try. Penrith just quietly though to be able to stop that try how they did Jack has a big dude. There was there was a split second where he caught it to the fact when he got load to try to score. They efforts like that. They went a huge way.

00:16:22
Speaker 1: And gloats in the tackle. That's a Grand Final was about desperation. The other one was Illiam Martin tri Coub. I want to ask you about something there. I think it when Jerome Jerome switched her back to Nathan Maathan was one on one with Sean Bluer. I thought they'd go at Sewan a little bit because it was his first Grand Final, first Origin Series, and he sort of skipped a little bit like it was going to beat him on the inside. Then little Goosey and then took off to Monster and months had just gravitated him once he knew Blaw didn't have him completely covered. Do you think that was a set sequence designed.

00:16:54
Speaker 2: For blow initially? I did? Initially watching it live, I did, But I saw I saw a camera angle just last night actually where they had the camera just on Nathan when he was calling. He was actually calling. You can see on that footage he was calling hot Hot, which is their call for gim that like that's their dominant call.

00:17:12
Speaker 1: Want.

00:17:13
Speaker 2: He wants the footy. He was on the advantage. I wanted it off Mitch. Mitch went the other way to Jerome and you can see him a little bit disappointed, and then he sees romy looked back at him and fire it back and he gets back in position. It just happened naturally. But that's that's their combination. Like for Jerome in a big game, crowd was so loud it would be hard to hear Mitch. Would have been hard actually hearing Nathan how loud the crowd was. For Jerome to know Nathan wants this, he sees something, catch it and just fire it straight back at him. That's that's a combination and a connection that like's they've been playing since SG ball, right, those guys together, that's a combination that that only comes over that much time playing it. Like you can't coach.

00:17:51
Speaker 1: That just made me think that when when you said the call hot calling the ball. What I played under twenty one is the first grade coaches Ali mcmart at the Knights and Alan Bell in the twenty ones, they used to send me out the field and say listen to their calls for us. Yeah, and they go into halftime say tell them so I knew. I still remember a lot of the calls, like Manly they had Freshy which was the second man, Jack and Jill was under and short, so I still remember some of those. Arko was their boss call, get it out wide, Penrith, I'm sorry it wasn't Penrith, North Sydney. Their dummy call was pressure, so it'd be pressure and then the other way. And when they went pressure down was when you started thinking they were picking their decoys and it was a double decoy. When you have pressure down, they give it to the bloke. Ye. So they used to say right they used get a pen and paper and walking so right out? What are they said? What are the what are the calls? A couple of times went in there so I don't know, I can't quick them up. He said, well, fucking go back out and find out what they are.

00:18:52
Speaker 2: That's the thing, right, like every team has that they're hot call. Every team. A lot of teams actually use hot You hear that a lot A lot of teams have the same dominent. They'd come up with something new, you think they would. Hot's a very old school one like that's been around for ages hot. A lot of teams have used that. Obviously you said Manly had Arco, which is you know they've had that for a while, but every team's got one. You can kind of pick it when you're out on the field. You can hear because you know when you know when a bloke wants it, because he's screaming for it.

00:19:20
Speaker 1: Just about every rugby league side from you know, from from Wolgurt to Wogga to the West Tigers, well they went West Tigers, Balmone Tigers right through had a call for when the referee back in the old days used to used to referee from the ruck. The call used to be red dog, which meant cheat all go back and where the normal where it was get back your five, take one more step forward all together everyone. As soon as everyone heard red dog, everyone said mate, they're off side. Everyone news the same call, no matter where they played.

00:19:52
Speaker 2: The other key moment I want to ask you about because you spoke about quite during the week. You had a lot to say about that doubles play and Nathan sequence where in the prelim he put Paul Alamoli over and then you spoke about Ivan wanting to attack that side That's why he was quite vocal about the obstruction in the pre limb.

00:20:11
Speaker 1: That was a little block formation they used, and Tellachai committed to the straight runner, which was and they got it wrong, and they admitted after the game they got it wrong. And yeah, after the game, Ivan was very very animated quite having any anxiety about that was that was a complete giveaway that they were going to attack that side with Nick and will Ward war Brick with a little attack sequence.

00:20:38
Speaker 2: They had that beautiful play for Taruve to score, a play that they'd been doing quite a bit. They put a lovely variation which they haven't done at all this final series. They've had it obviously in the kit bag ready to use, and they decided to bring it out on the bigger stage for Taruva to score on the weekend where they hit Ala Modi. Meni comes in thinking it's the play they've been running all final series and he does a beautiful little around play hits Edwards, who finds to RuvA that was special like that was those kind of big nice variation, well run players.

00:21:07
Speaker 1: They win big game ball to Alamtty that gives him enough time Jerome and Nathan what appears really simple, isn't. It's giving Ala Motty the ball at the exact right time. I called it the Goldilocks effect. Not too early, not too late, just right. So they go one step commit and just give Alamody just yeah, a quarter of a second extra time to catch and pass out the back. That's another underestimated thing to you who talking to Joey he had he under Bradman best once and he said to Bradman, do you bump a gag guy much, Dane, because you've been around a lot And he said, oh, yeah, occasionally, Dane. He said, go and have a go and have a talk to him how he likes the ball off his playmakers. You learn a lot, gag guy. When he returned to the Knights after it was at the Knights went sous in return, he grabbed the he grabbed the playmakers and he said, right, he said, I want to I want to tell you how I like the ball a little bit. When it's three on three up a short side. I want you to take one and a half steps and then feed it to me quick. And they're like right, and he said, because what will happen is my center and possibly even their winger, their winger will come outside in. If you give it to me late, too late, he's going to bang me outside in, going to clean me up. If you get give it to me too early, he's going to hang back and hold his winger. It's just going to push it out of the sideline, he said, one and a half steps, feed me and we'll catch them in no man's land. Just tiny little subtlety, Scoop. It ain't the bricks, it's the mortar.

00:22:39
Speaker 2: Nah.

00:22:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:22:40
Speaker 2: But like senners and wingers do so many reps of training, they know the exact time. They know exactly when a half takes it a step too far, and they'll go and jam and land on him and put him under pressure kind of force an error. And they know when they pass a little bit too early, and then they'll give time for their center. Say there is that. There is that beautiful subtlety which Penrith do so well. They just managed to always nail exactly the timing of their passes, Matthew. The neighbors are amazed. Actually at the moment, apparently our little lawn out the back there is.

00:23:10
Speaker 1: The talk of the street. Cooper. I am not surprised.

00:23:16
Speaker 2: It's given. You're not The best thing about it is too, It's given me so much more time, like free time, like I just go to the gym and stuff.

00:23:23
Speaker 1: Did you go up to the gym? What do you what do you mean? Seriously?

00:23:26
Speaker 2: Like that little pot belly.

00:23:27
Speaker 1: It's like it's like you've got a money belt under there.

00:23:32
Speaker 2: I mean, really, Jim, When I say gym, I more mean like I go running, like I've been running along the beach and stuff like that.

00:23:39
Speaker 1: You getly it's like your Rudney dage of field. Come on.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: No, Okay, When I say running, I mean like clubbing, like nightclubbing. Mate. But that's what happens when you got the automoile robotic lawn mower at the back. It's got on schedule. It cuts it all on time for me. It allows me to just get a heap of free time and all I got to do is on the connect. It just does I said everything, and it just does it all for me. So that's perfect. And then I can actually go if I wanted to do, Jim running all night clubbing.

00:24:11
Speaker 1: Have you all? Three? Yeah?

00:24:13
Speaker 2: No more sweating with an old push more in the heat, job done, okay?

00:24:17
Speaker 1: Three?

00:24:17
Speaker 2: Two one for the game. Yeah, I mean I found it really hard to split my three and two. I had Leah Martin and Isaiah Yoh. Leah Martin just edged him out. I think just some of his efforts on Kickchase jeezus, like he just charges through, leaves the rest of him and make sure he always lands on him. And he was really aggressive all night on Munster. Isaiah Oh I thought was unbelievable. I thought he was the difference in the middle to get to give them a huge edge because Storm did an excellent job on their backfire, particularly Toto.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: They did a really good job hitting him low a lot.

00:24:51
Speaker 2: Harry was coming out of marker and getting into his legs, taking his leg drive and.

00:24:55
Speaker 1: Stuff out of it.

00:24:57
Speaker 2: Rule they just did defend him the same way, Yeah, just gett into his legs, even if it's on first contact. But isaiaho through the middle house smarty was. I thought he was unbelievable. I thought either of them could have won Clive Churchill. My one was Harry Grant. I thought is in a losing side. I nearly thought he's a chance at Clive Churchill in a losing side. I thought his effort, he had something like sixty tackles sixty nine tackles. He scored one, nearly scored another one. He was on five. He just was in everything, and with a bad calf too, which he'd hurt the week before he ended up. I think he ran the third most k's in the game as well, which is unbelievable for a hooker. It's usually always halfbacks and fullbacks who clock up the most. Case Nathan had number one. I think Dylan Edwards was number two, and Harry Grant ran about nine point three k's.

00:25:45
Speaker 1: We've got the same combination. I've gone Isaiao three Isaiah. I'm the same split decision between he and Lamb. I'm going to go for Isaiah. Yeah, because I actually thought he was the player of the final series. I thought he got the mix of his game just perfect. Times through the year we've got a little bit pass happy and pushed their tackle little sideways. The final series and leading into the finals, he just got it perfect. He was essentially he was run first and past second Lea Martin. Of course, for two points one point it could have picked, it could beat Nathan. There was a mile a place from one point. I've done you. I've gone Harry. Given the fact that you know, you told me a little bit on the side going in that there was some concerns about his carf and I thought, Okay, he's going to hold back a little bit here, but made I've got fifty odd tackles.

00:26:32
Speaker 2: Fifty nine or something like that. Yeah, unbelievable, Like he's so fit, he's unbelievably fit.

00:26:39
Speaker 1: Before we talk, we're going to go on and talk about something really crucial. I want to talk about is Jerome Lewy to the Tigers impact he'll have, and also James Fisher Harris to the Warriors. We'll get to that. How were the Melbourne storm Boys after the game of back at the hotel?

00:26:55
Speaker 2: Obviously shattered, obviously shouted like that had such a great year year. You know, they've been getting wraps all year. They were really hungry to win this game too. You know. The particularly that first hour when you're in the sheds after the game was very melancholy in there. No music was being played. They were all in there just sort of recapping the game a little bit.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: Who's the one that's sort of who's the bloke who was the most Imagine a lot of the young Blakes would have been devastated. Who's the one who were the main players to go around and get them up and get them Goingmnster was Monster was probably a little bit like that.

00:27:31
Speaker 2: He was kind of he took it very hard. He's played a lot of big games, won some big games, lost some big games. But he he probably understands, you know, that they're going to be better off for it in the long term, so he could kind of bounce back a little bit from it, tried to, you know, get the morale up a little bit. Harry took it pretty Harry was taking it pretty hard. Jerome Hughes, he sort of he didn't come out. He was in his locker for a little bit. He was just sort of taken it all in. I mean, it's what a big week for Jerome, huge, huge for him.

00:28:05
Speaker 1: That's it. That was a huge test for him. Coop winning the dlai M medal given the nature of the DALLI his first delim Everyone's saying going in, he's gonna win it. Pressure there, But how close it was at the end between he and Teddy, how emotional it was like when the people are up there on stage and Belliac was really was wrapping him. I remember he was sitting there and I thought, man, this is it can be hard to come down from and then you get up first thing in the morning, you've got radio television interviews at first thing. So yeah, and he was strong. He was strong. So but it was a big week that was that was a real challenge for Jerome.

00:28:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd imagine, and he's someone dad who just does not like the attention on him as well, Like he's quite a in that group. It's quite a big character in terms of, you know, a lot of chirping, a lot of a lot of the funny stuff comes from Jerome's very very funny bloke, but he doesn't show him that side of himself outside that group, so he does like to keep himself quite sheltered. So I imagine that would have been quite challenging from quite an emotional week winning that, winning the RPA Champion Players Player as well, which is it's just a huge award too because that's obviously all players voted, like that's all the boys who vote who's been the best player all year. So yeah, it was a it was a big challenge for him, and I thought he I thought he played well on the weekend. I think a performance come under a little bit of criticism from players, just probably because you just won the Dally M and people were expecting him to go out there and score three tries like it has been all year.

00:29:32
Speaker 1: But it was no game.

00:29:33
Speaker 2: It was not that type of game.

00:29:34
Speaker 1: It wasn't what about Penrith, right, Coop four in a row? But there's four. There's nine players in that team who have gone for in a row. So it's Fisher, Harris, yep, Moses Louder, Nathan Cleary, Jerome Leu, Eye, Dillan Edwards, Isaiah Liam Martin, Brian Tutt. Yeah, some one?

00:29:54
Speaker 2: So one more in that one? Is there one more one to It's not Mitch Kenny.

00:30:00
Speaker 1: It'll come to us people who don't like to be disrespectful. We miss We're missing some one in there somewhere, that's right. Yeah, don't let us know. You have a little have a little look through.

00:30:13
Speaker 2: Scotty Sorrens.

00:30:15
Speaker 1: Scotty Syrens, that's right, got back from a hamstring injury.

00:30:17
Speaker 2: Yes, Scotty, Sorry, I had Luke Garner any time, Triscore thinking that he was going to start, and then Scotty Sorenson went out there, you son of a bit, Scott good looking man. That, Yeah, huge, and it's phenomenal. The thing it's it's funny when we spoke earlier in the year whenever, when we spoke to Nathan or them losing Critter this year, we went, how good he wasn't against the Broncos last year. He's such an it's going to be such a big loss. We're expecting the Penrith Panthers to slide. How I'm phenomenal they are after losing such a big name like that. Even you look at who they losing this year, Leui Fisher, Harris Taruva. You go, after what they proved the last four years, how many people have left, how many people have come and gone.

00:31:01
Speaker 1: Lindsay Smith emerging, Yeah, Lindsay.

00:31:03
Speaker 2: Smith emerging, even Matt Eisen, who's somebody, Who's somebody who probably ten years ago. You look at players like Chase Blair and people who used to go to the Melbourne Storm who are on the outer at other clubs, and they go there, they win premierships and people go, how good are that? Like Ballyate's ability to turn these players, you know, on the fringe players into phenomenal superstars, Like you say the same thing about Ivan Now if you're a young kid, you want to go to either Penrith or Storm if you want to turn yourself into or you're somebody who's on the edge of you know, you've moved around a lot of clubs. I want to turn into the best Donner Rold player I can. Those are the two clubs now like Penrith has turned into one of those.

00:31:44
Speaker 1: Clubs without a doubt, without a doubt, I mean Cooper. And one of the reasons those top clubs give roles to players, right when you talk to players who you've been into different clubs and sort of struggle, been journeymen and then God or Melbourne Storm one of those top clubs, what they tell to you when they go there is that when they walk in, the coach, like Craig Bellamy says to them, I don't need you to do A. I don't need you to be B. I don't need you to do and I don't want you to be c. This is your job. That's what you do, and you make your tackles on top of that, and you're going to stay and straight away a coach, a player goes well great at lesser clubs. They feel like they've got to do more and they step out of their lane. Like when you get to play with the Nathan Cleary, you've got a role, that's what you go to do your role. And secondly, you want to please him. You want to feel accepted, and that's why you elevate your game. That's why those top clubs they keep finding people and they keep performing even though they might perform at other clubs.

00:32:43
Speaker 2: That's yeah, like you just said, sorry, when Nathan's aura, you can tell there's two or three players where if they keep those you keep you know, you keep you I would say Yo Edwards and Nathan three players whose aura is so big right now. If you're a young player, if you can keep those three there for the next five years, it doesn't matter who kind of comes and goes within that Within that squad, they're all going to lift and elevate to the standard of how Pandrith played like they could. If they keep those three fit, healthy and inform, they could go on to win an another four comps. It's scary to say.

00:33:20
Speaker 1: Nathan's about he Nathan's just moving into his peak years. Brandon got touch with a little bit with injuries. It applies to every player, but you know, and I'm reading at the moment, A lot of people started the comparison, how would this side go against the great Bronco sides? How would this side and the biggest comparison with the fellow Western Western Sydney side, the great paramounta side of eighty eighty one eighty two sorry eighty one, sorry eighty one, eighty two, eighty three? God, how am I going with my math? But and my memory. I'm not even going to get involved with it because I don't think it's fair on any of those players. They are all great side. It's going to tell you what you know. In my time in rugby league, Coop, I wasn't around to see the Great and George sides, of course, but of all the sides I've seen these blokes at the very least the equal. They are a phenomenal team with some phenomenal players. I just tip my hat the way they form combination and Coop, you know the other thing about it, how tight they are you talk about connection where after the game, you know, Dylan boys are wearing the summer and traditional garb or not exactly sure what it's called, but the fact they're all wearing it in respect for their players. It's it's just tremendous. It is cool.

00:34:41
Speaker 2: It's I remember I believe it was young Tony mcpaya actually at the Melbourne Storm who's played for Samoa. He wants, he wants. When he's talked about connection, he said, you know, and Peneth the exact same in this sense. He said, what I love about this club is if it's important to one of us, it's important to all of us.

00:35:01
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

00:35:02
Speaker 2: And Penrith are the exact same in that sense where it's like, if you know, if something's important to one of their players, everyone just buys in and they just get on board with it. I said, you know, they do a lot of themes as well. Have you seen Penrith last year. I think they did top Gun. They all got different call signs and they drew motivation from that to kind of come up with their identity for the final series this year. They did it on the multi culture. They did it with Fish leaving. Yeah, Manna, which is like a word for courage, like they say, he's got a lot of manner and it's more.

00:35:33
Speaker 1: You know, this team and these individuals, they're more than footballers, they're more than football side Coup. The way they have changed areas, particularly Mount drew It but in that western suburbs is just credit to all of those blokes they tread. They transcend football. That's the greatest thing you can do with this sport. Cooper, right, The big challenge now Jerome leue to the Tigers. Critter did it the year before Stephen Crichton left to go to the Bulldogs. He has been phenomenal at the Bulldogs. He has exceeded expectations. He's elevated that side. Jerome, what do you think. I've got no doubt he'll I think you'll elevate them. I haven't got a doubt. It's just a matter of.

00:36:13
Speaker 2: How much I think he's They're definitely going to improve with him to ruvera there without obviously they those players who have winning culture, theyn't just lose that. But I think what what Critter had over him was the Bulldogs. What camp Soeraldo has been doing to that Bulldogs club for you know, the year that that development year they had last year where he's starting to weed out people who don't fit in with his system and whatnot. I think Tigers just don't have that yet. I think it's going to be very hard for Jerome or they're going to have to fix a few things if they want to be top eight contenders with the squad that they've got now. Because the squad on paper, they have the ability to make the top eight. Corros Our Luell like they have a great side, but this has always been the knock on him. From the board and the tope down to the plane group. There's not a great deal of connection within that club, and there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the seeds, which has a lot of an impact to why the club isn't successful.

00:37:11
Speaker 1: But if you look in the history of sport, Cooper people say one man doesn't make a team. I agree, I totally agree with that. But one man can elevate a team and elevate every person in the team and elevate the sum of the parts, bringing things right up quiet and as we said before, it's a perfect example. Jerome Leui will be unbelievable for Locke Galvin with what he'll teach him. He'll teach him the ropes, he'll get a lot of know how, he'll fast track lockey as a playmaker. I'm excited about that. Corus House just looking for a partner in crime. He's just looking for someone help himant it'll be a huge relief. He'll bring Buller to the four.

00:37:47
Speaker 2: Good player during book, like they've got a great spine now, like they've got they do have a spine that can take them to the top eight. I see that. But that's the only thing, the only knock, Like everyone's been saying, there's no doubt they've got the talent. That's quite It's just if that if the culture of that club and the top office is going to be able to work in their favor.

00:38:07
Speaker 1: The film's going to be. It's gonna be. It's gonna be a good, big jump. I just gonna be. I'm not saying they're going to play finals. I'm not sure they're ready for that yet. I can see them. They're anywhere between nine to eleven. I think I think they'll I think to start with, they'll be. They'll get a real lift of having Jerome there. There'll be a feeling of optimism. I think they'll get them off to a good start. And if they get off to a good start and confidence grows, I said last year, when you're in a football side and you've had the foot on your throat for a fair while. All of a sudden, when you start winning games, man, you just don't take winning for granted. You just you just love it. I mean, we've seen that with the Bulldogs this year, all of those blokes, all of a sudden, they're winning and they're winning, and they're winning, and they're just buoyed by It's it's it's such a great feeling.

00:38:56
Speaker 2: And can I ask you a question before we move, just to of away from Penrith Nathan Cleary right now, where does he sit in the conversation for the best ever?

00:39:08
Speaker 1: Do you think I put look, the thing they always keep saying, he needs to dominate Origin Origin. He hasn't been up quite because of injuries and whatnot. He will do it.

00:39:20
Speaker 2: Oh, you definitely will, Look I put him.

00:39:22
Speaker 1: He's if he isn't already, he's about to win the discussion that the very elite sit Joey First, Wally Lewis, Cameron Smith. He's about to enter that.

00:39:33
Speaker 2: Role because at least twenty six right.

00:39:35
Speaker 1: I should you know what? I think he's ended that role.

00:39:38
Speaker 2: I think he's in me personally. You know, I didn't see a heap of Joey play. I know he was obviously everyone.

00:39:45
Speaker 1: Alongside a good bloke, but it takes away from Joe. Yeah, Robbie Davis said, you know what to do, So people say recency bias. I think in rugby Luke it can be a little bit the reverse back into the past with Rose colored Glass.

00:39:58
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of a lot of the people who kind of judge who is the best are that older grammar, like he was a very much of an older demographic in rugby league. Everyone kind of looks back on the glory days as well. It was way better back then, and they probably prefer they bring Joey into it more in the conversation obviously for that reason. I see Nathan right now. I think because he's still young, probably that works against him as well. People go, I make there's still other stuff still going to do this.

00:40:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that.

00:40:24
Speaker 2: I think if I think if Nathan on paper was thirty two right now he's just won his fourth in a calm, they're probably saying he's the best ever. I see him right now in the top three alongside Andrew Johns, Cameron Smith and him. That's where I think he's the in my opinion right now.

00:40:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I think what.

00:40:40
Speaker 2: He's done is I think this year elevated him definitely a lot, playing busted and then doing what he did on Sunday Night. But I in my opinion, I think he's.

00:40:51
Speaker 1: Fisher Harris to the wise. I'm excited by that. He'll just give them again. He'll like the Tigers who'll give them. You'll give them, give him a lift. The great thing they're going to get out of Fisher Harris's leadership. We've said all before about Lea Thompson. Lea Thompson was sort of not fulfilling his potential. He goes into Maray Camp for the Murray All Stars, comes out a completely different player after rooming with Fisher Harris. Yeah, he'll elevate that soon. I can see. I think the Warriors will return to the top eight next Yeah. I'm hard to replace Shawn Johnson's that's the only thing. Hard to replace Sean. But I think they'll redesign elements of their attack. I can see him.

00:41:29
Speaker 2: But what I've loved to have seen no Blake Fisher Harris.

00:41:32
Speaker 1: That's a loss as big a loss as Sean.

00:41:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's they've lost their two probably best players over the last couple of years.

00:41:38
Speaker 1: But but what Fish will bring as far as winning, he knows what it takes to win comps.

00:41:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm ten to see who they're going to put the seven Yeah, alongside Luke Metcalfe tomorrow.

00:41:50
Speaker 1: I think it'll be tomorrow and Mara Martin. I'm going to give you twenty seconds. Twenty seconds. I'm going to shock you go top four next year. I think Storm.

00:42:00
Speaker 2: I think Storm definitely, they get they don't lose anyone, and they've they're getting stuff five Storm, Penrith, Sharks with Fanil Blake going there, and I think.

00:42:09
Speaker 1: The Bulldogs, Okay, we're similar. I've gone Penrith, Storm, Broncos, Wow, Sharks for Neil Blake going there.

00:42:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, by the Broncos. Just are you just saying the leadership of what Madge is going to bring to that sque.

00:42:26
Speaker 1: Of the really Madge, I think you're going to the side. They'll get a They'll get a they're going to get a massive shake up. They're going to trade harder they've ever trained before, in my opinion, So they have any recruits and I think they'll bounce back from the disappointment of this year new recruits. I don't think they do a lot on Renau's shoulders. One of the one of the things that's crucial is Reno is able to get through probably eighty percent, seventy five eighty percent of this season.

00:42:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're going to be They're going to have to manage him well in terms of if there's a game that they don't need him for, I think they.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: But coop their top full side. They're a top four side. I can see him fulfilling their potential.

00:43:03
Speaker 2: I think that I think we underestimated just how big the losses were of Tom Flagler and Herbie Farnworth. You see how what Herby Farns hath brought to that Dolphin side this year. Like they missed they missed him out there.

00:43:14
Speaker 1: I think blokes like Ricky will benefit from having magic there Cooper. The Australian side has been named a few surprises. No DCU, No Teddy. Not a big surprise because I thought that Dylan Edwards deserved his spot. If you if he is fit, No Kalin Again, I'm not surprised. If you say you don't want to be picked and suddenly your backflipped, then I think you don't get picked, and no Jake Trevoyevitch again tough on Jake can't pick them all though I suppose the spine Mitch Moses, Tommy Diddon, Harry Grant, Dylan Edwards, I see it.

00:43:52
Speaker 2: There's a weird spine in my opinion. I see it as a particularly particularly Mitch Moses, not because he's not because he doesn't deserve to be there, but his year this year and how paramatter have gone. He's been injured. Even when he did come back into the side, he didn't have the impact like you had sort of the year before. I thought it was I thought it was a weird selection, particularly over at Cherry Evans, who probably had nearly one of his best years ever.

00:44:19
Speaker 1: I think there's some really smart selections there by Mail a few of those surprise selections, but I think smart I reckon last year Mail learned at learn a lot. I think at times you've got to be careful picking experienced players at the end of a long season. Like it's a great feeling, represents Australia, it's one of the greatest things in my life. But there's some of the players at the end of a long season. I reckon. Last year it showed a little bit as they got to the final against the Kiz and beaten thirty nil ad and thurs by the Kiwiz. So what Male's done, He's picked a number of blokes that haven't played for Australia before are right at the start of their Australian career. Dilan Edwards first time, he'll play fullback. I don't think he played before. He had to win. Harry's vice captain Tommy did. Will give everything he's got, Mitch Moses playing for Australia. Hunt on the bench is Benny Hunt on the bench right, But Lindsay Smith, the young blake from Penrith coming into the side, like it's a surprise selection. I think it's a great selection now he's a young bloke on the up and he'll just bring energy and excitement to the camp. I reckon. That's been one of the crucial things, one of the I think it's been one of the crucial elements of Mao's selections. Enthusiasm and blokes who really want to be there.

00:45:37
Speaker 2: I'd tell you what as well. I wouldn't be surprised, particularly after the Kaalin situation which I in my opinion. I know people had a lot to say about Kaylen. I don't. I don't if a bloke wants to prioritize his he's the only one who's missing out in terms of, you know, you get a bit of cash, you get to go back to preseason later, which every NFL player, no one loves going back to preseason better than like going back in January, because it's it's the best feeling that way we get along the break. I think it says lader bloke, who I think probably it just didn't go about it the right way when it did come out. But I don't think he deserved a lot of criticism.

00:46:12
Speaker 1: He did.

00:46:12
Speaker 2: But I was going to say, I think a lot of I think there was a lot of conversations in I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of if mel had rung a lot of players who may have been carrying half niggles and said do you want me to pick it, and a lot of them said, look, yeah, don't pick me.

00:46:27
Speaker 1: Kuber, my worst seasons in regular were coming back in January, really because it wasn't natural football. I needed to train my ass off. Usually i'd take two weeks off at the end of the year. Then I'll start again with a bit of light stuff because I had to because I wasn't Andrew Johnson, and I wasn't Jonathan Thurston. I wasn't any of those players, so I had to. I think it's very dangerous at times. It's different when you're a camera smith and when a superstars or you're a player that's been been there for eleven years. Right, he got that big base, But for younger players, I think it's very very dangerous. And I come back in January. You're handicapping yourself to a certain extent.

00:47:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, did Andrew Johns how I wanted to ask just you sort of spoke about you only take two weeks off and then you start to get back at a training so you come back and good Nick was joey because he he does portray himself as someone who you know, it was quite rats asked. But you've sort of a lot of people have lifted the lid on. He was a very hard trainer when he was at Knights in the off season. If he had six weeks seven weeks off, was he ripping into a lot of training?

00:47:29
Speaker 1: Andrew always squared the ledger. Joey had a good time. Yes, Joey would go on benders sometimes, but guess what, he had the discipline to get himself out of bed a train his ass off to square the ledger. You always have to square the ledger. And this is one of the one of I think one of the reasons why the Knights went through a downturn for a number of years is because all those young guys that came through w end I've been seeing your players that played with Joey's young guys. They saw the party Joey. They never saw the other Joey who squared the lad Joey will get up first thing in the morning and he would just go train by himself. Yeah, yeah, Joey. Joey take a few weeks off and then he'd rip into his training. He always came back. He did always come back in pretty good, nick carrying a couple of kilos, but he would always go really good at his fitness. He never came back and people went, oh God, look at this. He was ready to go in.

00:48:21
Speaker 2: He came okay, okay, because yeah, like you said, it's from the outside looking in, you get that.

00:48:26
Speaker 1: Well.

00:48:27
Speaker 2: He likes to perceive himself like that. But chatting to a players who did play with him, they would say that he was a very much behind behind the closed door. He he was different to how he perceived himself.

00:48:39
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm not going to come out and say that the very best players train the very best, because some quite that. But I'll see what they're in the top five. There are some players that I'd played with right that they absolutely trained themselves to a standstill because they weren't natural footballers to extent the other fours. They didn't have great hands, you know they're was it that they didn't They weren't bringing a hitting holes and working with playmakers. They just got through. I'm making forty tackles a game, missing no tackles and being super fit leading the hit ups. But the best players, you talk to those North queens Land blokes, they'll say that J two was in the top three to five trainers in that club. Lead by example. Couper great year. Loved it so as regular league. And once again I'll repeat well done to all the players, to the clubs and the NRAL itself. A well done to the referees too. The few up and ups and downs with the bunkers, but the way they've controlled the game has helped make the game what it was. A successful year, beautiful.

00:49:39
Speaker 2: Thank you Matthew, Thank you Cuba.