WEBVTT
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.879
Welcome to AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:13.839
Practical, no-nonsense guidance to help attorneys put AI power to work in their practice right now.
00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:29.039
I want to take about five minutes today to tell my listeners, and really mainly the consumer bankruptcy lawyer listeners, about something that I think is genuinely worth your time.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:55.039
Back in August, NACPA, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, put together a program called Me, Myself, and AI, featuring four lawyers who, really, not coincidentally, have all now appeared on this podcast: Jenny Doling, Tara Salinas, Chad Van Horn, and Matt McCune.
00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:06.000
I asked NACPA for permission to put the written materials from that program on the AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers website, and they said yes.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:07.920
So they are there.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:09.840
You can download them.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.480
Links in the show notes.
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:33.680
And I really encourage you to do that because these are not typical CLE materials where you get 75 pages of PowerPoint slides that made perfect sense while somebody was talking and are almost useless six months later.
00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.719
There's stuff in these materials that you can actually use.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.599
I'm going to give you a quick tour.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:47.040
First of all, Jenny Doling's materials may be the mother load.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:54.959
Jenny gives you a 30-prompt consumer bankruptcy AI prompt library.
00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.599
And these aren't generic prompts like draft a letter to my clients.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:20.879
They're organized around an actual bankruptcy workflow, intake and client communication, means testing and eligibility, schedules and petition preparation, chapter 13 plan work, trustee issues, 341 preparation, reaffirmations, exemptions.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:25.919
I mean, these are the kind of things bankruptcy lawyers actually do.
00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:29.919
But Jenny goes much further than prompting.
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:43.120
She shows you the AI skills she has actually built for her firm: a pay stub analyzer, a bank statement analyzer, a debt analyzer, a tax return analyzer.
00:02:43.360 --> 00:03:03.919
Her bank statement analyzer, for example, produces an Excel worksheet analyzing income, spending, transfers, cash app activity, and unusual transactions, plus a separate internal attorney work product memo identifying things that need attention.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:13.759
Her tax return analyzer looks for things like undisclosed businesses, brokerage accounts, real estate, and refunds.
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.240
And there's much more.
00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:25.120
Document renaming, missing document analysis, email attachment organization, even a fee quote builder.
00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:32.000
This is a glimpse of what an AI-enabled bankruptcy practice can actually look like.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:38.719
Tara Salinas comes at the problem from almost the opposite direction.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:46.800
Her message is essentially stop trying to build an AI-enabled bankruptcy practice.
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:50.240
Just solve one annoying problem.
00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:57.120
Her materials include a terrific 30-minute exercise called your first closed file.
00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:16.319
Take a closed Chapter 7 case, upload six months of bank statements, have the AI first inventory what it received, then analyze the statements, then compare what it found with what you found when you originally handled the case.
00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.639
She even gives you the prompts.
00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.879
And Tara's larger point is one that I really love.
00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:31.439
You don't need a technology strategy, you don't need a committee, you don't need to redesign your firm.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:38.399
If you can explain an assignment to a good paralegal, you can start experimenting with AI.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.040
Then there's Chad Van Horn.
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.839
Chad focuses on moving from prompts to skills.
00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:48.480
And I think his distinction is important.
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:52.480
A prompt asks AI to do something once.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:05:01.120
A skill is the written procedure that tells AI how your firm wants that task done every time.
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:06.399
Chad breaks a skill down into four very simple pieces.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.399
When should you use it?
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.639
What information does it need?
00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:12.879
What steps should it follow?
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:18.079
And what does good work look like, including the guardrails?
00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:35.600
His examples include petition quality control and a pleading reviewer that checks things like the code and rule citations, local rules, the judges' procedures, negative notice language, service lists, and proposed orders.
00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:40.800
And I particularly like Chad's advice about correcting AI.
00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.639
If you've corrected it twice, stop arguing.
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.800
Fix the instructions.
00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:57.199
Finally, Matt McCune gives you perhaps the simplest roadmap of all: voice, video, software.
00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:03.920
For voice, Matt demonstrates whisper flow, speaking to AI rather than typing.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:12.160
For video, he uses HeyGen to turn something he explains once into reusable client communication.
00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:18.480
And then he makes the jump that would have sounded almost crazy a couple of years ago.
00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:20.720
Build your own software.
00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.680
Instead of asking, what can my software do?
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.079
Matt asks, what do I want my practice to do?
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.600
And then he uses AI to start building around that answer.
00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.920
So you've really got four different entry points here.
00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:43.759
Jenny shows you what a deeply AI-enabled bankruptcy workflow can become.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:48.639
Tara shows you how ridiculously small the first step can be.
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.759
Chad shows you how to turn what works into a repeatable process.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.920
And Matt shows you how far you can eventually take it.
00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.759
And one more thing.
00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.759
I want to thank NACPA for allowing me to make these materials available to listeners.
00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.680
And NACPA did something else that I thought was really nice.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:22.639
If you are a bankruptcy lawyer who is not currently a NACPA member, they have given listeners of this podcast a special code for$50 off a new NACPA membership.
00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.879
The code is NACPA50AI.
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.160
That's NACPA50AI.
00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.959
The offer expires October 31st, 2026.
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:41.199
I'll put the information along with the materials on the website and in the show notes.
00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.000
And I'll add my own completely unsolicited endorsement here.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.199
I've been involved with NACPA for a long time.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:56.319
The first NACPA event I went to was in San Antonio in 2012.
00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:04.319
Their educational materials are consistently some of the most practical bankruptcy resources I encounter.
00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:14.000
And these AI materials are particularly good because they're not about AI in the abstract.
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:20.000
They're about bankruptcy lawyers doing bankruptcy work with better tools.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:21.759
Go download them.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:28.240
And if you're not already an ACPA member, take 50 bucks off the membership and join.
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.120
This is Ron Tresher.
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.679
This has been a Field Note for AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:37.759
And we'll see you next time.
00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:43.360
That's it for today's episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:44.639
Thanks for listening.
00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:46.399
We'll see you next time.
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.879
Welcome to AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:13.839
Practical, no-nonsense guidance to help attorneys put AI power to work in their practice right now.
00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:29.039
I want to take about five minutes today to tell my listeners, and really mainly the consumer bankruptcy lawyer listeners, about something that I think is genuinely worth your time.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:55.039
Back in August, NACPA, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, put together a program called Me, Myself, and AI, featuring four lawyers who, really, not coincidentally, have all now appeared on this podcast: Jenny Doling, Tara Salinas, Chad Van Horn, and Matt McCune.
00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:06.000
I asked NACPA for permission to put the written materials from that program on the AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers website, and they said yes.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:07.920
So they are there.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:09.840
You can download them.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.480
Links in the show notes.
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:33.680
And I really encourage you to do that because these are not typical CLE materials where you get 75 pages of PowerPoint slides that made perfect sense while somebody was talking and are almost useless six months later.
00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.719
There's stuff in these materials that you can actually use.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.599
I'm going to give you a quick tour.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:47.040
First of all, Jenny Doling's materials may be the mother load.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:54.959
Jenny gives you a 30-prompt consumer bankruptcy AI prompt library.
00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.599
And these aren't generic prompts like draft a letter to my clients.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:20.879
They're organized around an actual bankruptcy workflow, intake and client communication, means testing and eligibility, schedules and petition preparation, chapter 13 plan work, trustee issues, 341 preparation, reaffirmations, exemptions.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:25.919
I mean, these are the kind of things bankruptcy lawyers actually do.
00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:29.919
But Jenny goes much further than prompting.
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:43.120
She shows you the AI skills she has actually built for her firm: a pay stub analyzer, a bank statement analyzer, a debt analyzer, a tax return analyzer.
00:02:43.360 --> 00:03:03.919
Her bank statement analyzer, for example, produces an Excel worksheet analyzing income, spending, transfers, cash app activity, and unusual transactions, plus a separate internal attorney work product memo identifying things that need attention.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:13.759
Her tax return analyzer looks for things like undisclosed businesses, brokerage accounts, real estate, and refunds.
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.240
And there's much more.
00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:25.120
Document renaming, missing document analysis, email attachment organization, even a fee quote builder.
00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:32.000
This is a glimpse of what an AI-enabled bankruptcy practice can actually look like.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:38.719
Tara Salinas comes at the problem from almost the opposite direction.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:46.800
Her message is essentially stop trying to build an AI-enabled bankruptcy practice.
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:50.240
Just solve one annoying problem.
00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:57.120
Her materials include a terrific 30-minute exercise called your first closed file.
00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:16.319
Take a closed Chapter 7 case, upload six months of bank statements, have the AI first inventory what it received, then analyze the statements, then compare what it found with what you found when you originally handled the case.
00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.639
She even gives you the prompts.
00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.879
And Tara's larger point is one that I really love.
00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:31.439
You don't need a technology strategy, you don't need a committee, you don't need to redesign your firm.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:38.399
If you can explain an assignment to a good paralegal, you can start experimenting with AI.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.040
Then there's Chad Van Horn.
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.839
Chad focuses on moving from prompts to skills.
00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:48.480
And I think his distinction is important.
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:52.480
A prompt asks AI to do something once.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:05:01.120
A skill is the written procedure that tells AI how your firm wants that task done every time.
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:06.399
Chad breaks a skill down into four very simple pieces.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.399
When should you use it?
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.639
What information does it need?
00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:12.879
What steps should it follow?
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:18.079
And what does good work look like, including the guardrails?
00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:35.600
His examples include petition quality control and a pleading reviewer that checks things like the code and rule citations, local rules, the judges' procedures, negative notice language, service lists, and proposed orders.
00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:40.800
And I particularly like Chad's advice about correcting AI.
00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.639
If you've corrected it twice, stop arguing.
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.800
Fix the instructions.
00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:57.199
Finally, Matt McCune gives you perhaps the simplest roadmap of all: voice, video, software.
00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:03.920
For voice, Matt demonstrates whisper flow, speaking to AI rather than typing.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:12.160
For video, he uses HeyGen to turn something he explains once into reusable client communication.
00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:18.480
And then he makes the jump that would have sounded almost crazy a couple of years ago.
00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:20.720
Build your own software.
00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.680
Instead of asking, what can my software do?
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.079
Matt asks, what do I want my practice to do?
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.600
And then he uses AI to start building around that answer.
00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.920
So you've really got four different entry points here.
00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:43.759
Jenny shows you what a deeply AI-enabled bankruptcy workflow can become.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:48.639
Tara shows you how ridiculously small the first step can be.
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.759
Chad shows you how to turn what works into a repeatable process.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.920
And Matt shows you how far you can eventually take it.
00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.759
And one more thing.
00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.759
I want to thank NACPA for allowing me to make these materials available to listeners.
00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.680
And NACPA did something else that I thought was really nice.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:22.639
If you are a bankruptcy lawyer who is not currently a NACPA member, they have given listeners of this podcast a special code for$50 off a new NACPA membership.
00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.879
The code is NACPA50AI.
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.160
That's NACPA50AI.
00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.959
The offer expires October 31st, 2026.
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:41.199
I'll put the information along with the materials on the website and in the show notes.
00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.000
And I'll add my own completely unsolicited endorsement here.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.199
I've been involved with NACPA for a long time.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:56.319
The first NACPA event I went to was in San Antonio in 2012.
00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:04.319
Their educational materials are consistently some of the most practical bankruptcy resources I encounter.
00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:14.000
And these AI materials are particularly good because they're not about AI in the abstract.
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:20.000
They're about bankruptcy lawyers doing bankruptcy work with better tools.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:21.759
Go download them.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:28.240
And if you're not already an ACPA member, take 50 bucks off the membership and join.
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.120
This is Ron Tresher.
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.679
This has been a Field Note for AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:37.759
And we'll see you next time.
00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:43.360
That's it for today's episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:44.639
Thanks for listening.
00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:46.399
We'll see you next time.
