AEW DYNAMITE POST-SHOW (9/30): Keller & Lansdell discuss magnificent and moving tribute show to Pac

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.540 --> 00:00:03.020
You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership
2
00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:05.360
through your Apple account and the Apple Podcast app and
3
00:00:05.379 --> 00:00:08.880
also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP
4
00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.619
membership with full access to archives, an ad-free website, and
5
00:00:12.699 --> 00:00:16.589
customizable podcast feeds that are compatible with the Apple Podcast
6
00:00:16.769 --> 00:00:20.190
app and many iOS and Android apps, along with streaming
7
00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.010
ability right from our ad-free mobile site, go to pwtorch.com
8
00:00:25.429 --> 00:00:30.530
slash govip. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. That'll give you all
9
00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:33.049
the details on everything you're missing out on by not
10
00:00:33.170 --> 00:00:36.649
being a VIP member. The whole array of VIP exclusive
11
00:00:36.670 --> 00:00:41.200
podcasts like the Wade Keller News Bulletins, our post pay-per-view roundtables,
12
00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:43.820
the fix that I host with Todd Martin, everything with
13
00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.060
Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with
14
00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:49.420
different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives
15
00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:53.399
dating back nearly four decades. Nearly 2,000 Pro Wrestling Torch
16
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.929
weekly newsletters. Over two decades of podcasts on demand dating
17
00:00:56.969 --> 00:01:00.310
back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of
18
00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:03.829
fascinating retro radio shows, including many that I hosted in
19
00:01:03.850 --> 00:01:07.780
the 1990s, and an ad-free website, exclusive content on that
20
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.439
website only for VIP members, written and audio, and a lightning-fast, smooth,
21
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.980
ad-free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't
22
00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.519
miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a
23
00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:25.670
VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. Go all the way. Go VIP. pwtorch.com
24
00:01:25.890 --> 00:01:39.120
slash govip. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the
25
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.549
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show. It's time to talk
26
00:01:42.590 --> 00:01:54.719
this week's AEW Dynamite. Wow. If you didn't know, Ben Satterly, Pac,
27
00:01:55.219 --> 00:02:01.400
Adrian Neville. You wished you did at this point. What
28
00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:10.060
a magnificent show in any context for any human being. Chris,
29
00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.139
I've been texting and talking to people who knew him.
30
00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:16.099
I talked Monday night on the Raw Post Show about him.
31
00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:18.139
I talked on the flagship yesterday about him. It was
32
00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:21.939
Zach Catorn, and I was conveying, and I wrote the
33
00:02:22.099 --> 00:02:25.719
newsletters cover story this week, um, is a cover story
34
00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:29.419
about POC and all those places. I said, I learned
35
00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:35.680
so much about him since the tragic news broke Sunday night. Um,
36
00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:41.300
and I didn't realize the degree to which people adored
37
00:02:41.379 --> 00:02:49.129
him and respected him, um, loved him. And so, yeah,
38
00:02:49.169 --> 00:02:50.870
I mean, it just like, uh, it was so, um,
39
00:02:53.990 --> 00:02:58.129
But I didn't expect it to manifest to the degree
40
00:02:58.189 --> 00:03:02.680
that it did so effectively and in such a moving
41
00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:08.500
way as it did on this episode of Dynamite. I mean,
42
00:03:09.979 --> 00:03:13.759
we all should be fortunate to be cared for by
43
00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.960
our friends and our peers and um colleagues as much
44
00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:19.500
as him i told you right before i went on
45
00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:20.840
the air was a picture of him and his dog
46
00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:23.639
that like broke me i assume it was his dog
47
00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:26.099
um don't know how the picture was you know but
48
00:03:26.139 --> 00:03:28.189
it's just like sometimes you don't think about that there's
49
00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:29.889
a dog waiting for him to come home and doesn't
50
00:03:29.909 --> 00:03:33.629
know what's going on and everyone's sad um but so
51
00:03:33.650 --> 00:03:37.490
many moments in that show the way he god there's
52
00:03:37.530 --> 00:03:42.180
just the the pre-recorded tributes you know allowing wrestlers to
53
00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:46.449
cry on camera and express their love and emotions is great.
54
00:03:46.569 --> 00:03:49.669
And I think for the viewers that even if they're
55
00:03:49.689 --> 00:03:51.509
not saying much or you're not hearing what they're saying,
56
00:03:51.569 --> 00:03:55.289
it means something. But the actual stories they told, the anecdotes,
57
00:03:55.469 --> 00:03:59.710
every one of them said something that made you understand
58
00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:04.509
better why he was so beloved as a person, as
59
00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:11.250
a Sprinkled into that, not as important, but to pocket was,
60
00:04:11.849 --> 00:04:17.329
is why he was so respected for his craft. I'm
61
00:04:17.649 --> 00:04:19.550
going to complete who said it, if it was Ricochet
62
00:04:19.589 --> 00:04:22.009
or Osprey or someone else, but like the precision of
63
00:04:22.050 --> 00:04:26.680
his moves, like the perfection of his moves. And I
64
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:28.459
wrote about that newsletter in the cover story. I talked
65
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:29.800
about it, but that's what people this week have been
66
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:32.610
telling me, like, what they respected about his style through
67
00:04:32.629 --> 00:04:37.399
the lens of, of being a wrestler. So yeah, I, Chris, your,
68
00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.519
your thoughts, those are my initial thoughts coming out of this.
69
00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:42.620
It just emotionally heavy.
70
00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.079
First and foremost, uh, hug your loved ones, everybody.
71
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.939
Um, cause you don't know what tomorrow holds.
72
00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:52.040
Uh, wow.
73
00:04:52.790 --> 00:04:55.170
I knew I didn't know the guy, but I know
74
00:04:55.209 --> 00:04:57.910
some people who did know the guy, uh, You've been
75
00:04:57.930 --> 00:04:59.709
around this business, Wade, and I know you hate that
76
00:04:59.750 --> 00:05:01.689
expression of this business, but I think we're allowed.
77
00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:01.829
To use it.
78
00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:04.959
No, no, it's a business except on television during a show.
79
00:05:05.139 --> 00:05:06.500
That's a sport. I don't mind the business term in
80
00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:06.800
this context.
81
00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:10.680
You've been around this business a long time. I've been
82
00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.819
around it not quite as long. It is rare that
83
00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.379
a person can be in the industry for this long
84
00:05:19.709 --> 00:05:21.629
and not have a single person have a bad word
85
00:05:21.670 --> 00:05:27.459
to say about it. You have seen with one guy, well, no,
86
00:05:27.540 --> 00:05:29.680
not even, you've not seen a single person on social
87
00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:36.279
media say anything but glowing stuff about this man. And
88
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.939
the fact that it never came through on air because
89
00:05:39.980 --> 00:05:43.319
that wasn't the character he was supposed to play is
90
00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:47.810
just an indication of what a consummate professional he was.
91
00:05:48.610 --> 00:05:52.569
I've heard stories about a camera crew being backstage. There
92
00:05:52.589 --> 00:05:55.670
was a new cameraman and Pac said, hey, could you
93
00:05:55.930 --> 00:05:59.550
please turn the camera off just to protect the business?
94
00:06:00.449 --> 00:06:02.709
And when the guy said, oh, yeah, I'm new here.
95
00:06:02.750 --> 00:06:03.509
Here's my ID.
96
00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:06.680
And instantly, Pac just relaxed around him and started just
97
00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:09.079
being friendly because he knew he was safe around him.
98
00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:14.959
And to see tonight's show, to see, and I'm a
99
00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.220
huge advocate for this, men not being afraid to show
100
00:06:19.259 --> 00:06:24.180
their feelings and to have the confidence and the security
101
00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:27.769
to do that on live television in front of millions
102
00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:30.470
of people because of the man.
103
00:06:30.310 --> 00:06:32.439
That they loved that they'd lost suddenly.
104
00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.220
I spent the last three or four days doing a
105
00:06:35.220 --> 00:06:37.720
lot of thinking about him and his career and his legacy,
106
00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.939
but also worrying that we were going to hear some
107
00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:44.519
stuff about this that we didn't want to hear. And
108
00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:46.980
I'm just, I'm really thankful that that hasn't been the
109
00:06:47.019 --> 00:06:49.860
case and that this tribute show was able to take
110
00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:52.800
place without that specter hanging over our heads.
111
00:06:52.899 --> 00:06:53.139
You know?
112
00:06:54.370 --> 00:06:57.310
Everything we saw tonight was as close to a perfect
113
00:06:58.129 --> 00:07:02.269
thank you to a man as you can get. The
114
00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:05.790
more I've thought about Pac as a wrestler and his
115
00:07:05.850 --> 00:07:08.569
career and how I've seen him improve from the days
116
00:07:08.629 --> 00:07:12.800
I saw him in Dragon Gate and how he went
117
00:07:12.860 --> 00:07:16.000
from somebody who was only a high flyer to somebody
118
00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:18.420
who literally had no holes in his game. When you
119
00:07:18.459 --> 00:07:22.160
think about what he could do, He had the technical wrestling.
120
00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.279
He had the power moves. He had the high fly.
121
00:07:24.579 --> 00:07:27.319
He could cut a promo. Assuming you could understand his accent.
122
00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.449
He had everything. The only thing he didn't have was
123
00:07:31.490 --> 00:07:33.670
a U S passport. And that is probably what held
124
00:07:33.709 --> 00:07:34.509
him back in the end.
125
00:07:35.230 --> 00:07:35.370
Yeah.
126
00:07:35.410 --> 00:07:39.430
But it's just, if you watch this show, you can
127
00:07:39.449 --> 00:07:41.490
watch the show in five years time for somebody who
128
00:07:41.550 --> 00:07:42.529
never saw the guy wrestle.
129
00:07:42.569 --> 00:07:45.870
And they go, wow, this must've been a special, special man.
130
00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:47.410
And by all accounts.
131
00:07:47.889 --> 00:07:52.220
Yeah, he was. I, I, said earlier this week on
132
00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:55.120
one of the podcasts that you're always going to have
133
00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:57.860
wrestlers saying nice things about a colleague who dies. And
134
00:07:57.879 --> 00:07:59.639
if they're a big enough star, you get a tribute show.
135
00:07:59.660 --> 00:08:00.740
I mean, it's just the way it works.
136
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:01.350
It's fine.
137
00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:08.129
But sometimes in the position that I'm in, you hear
138
00:08:08.230 --> 00:08:15.089
other things, you know, like the things that would be inappropriate, rude,
139
00:08:15.829 --> 00:08:18.269
in bad taste to say publicly, you just, you don't,
140
00:08:18.509 --> 00:08:20.610
you don't want, the tribute show is not time for
141
00:08:20.629 --> 00:08:22.949
a complete picture on someone. It's, it's especially put on
142
00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:24.970
by the company they work for with their colleagues. You
143
00:08:24.990 --> 00:08:28.250
put the bet, you put the most positive face on,
144
00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:30.149
on the person who just died for the sake of
145
00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:34.850
decorum and their family and their friends. But you hear other,
146
00:08:35.009 --> 00:08:37.129
but you gotta hear stuff, you know, and with Ben,
147
00:08:37.149 --> 00:08:42.360
you didn't, I didn't like, it wasn't a single hint
148
00:08:42.820 --> 00:08:49.490
of anything negative about him. And like and so, yeah,
149
00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:52.809
I said it was it's remarkable. Like there's no, you know, well,
150
00:08:53.070 --> 00:08:56.960
you know, yes, but or yeah, he had this side
151
00:08:56.980 --> 00:09:01.159
of him like none of that. And so I don't know.
152
00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.639
I just say that because like it is. People can
153
00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:07.730
watch this show and not be cynical is my point.
154
00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:11.379
There's like this, this is, this is how people felt
155
00:09:11.419 --> 00:09:13.259
about him. I've been communicating with some of the people
156
00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.230
on camera tonight and their emotions match their texts. You
157
00:09:18.250 --> 00:09:20.039
know what I mean? Like this is, that was not,
158
00:09:20.070 --> 00:09:24.950
that was not the, the performance. There was no performance there.
159
00:09:24.970 --> 00:09:26.629
There was no, I'm going to get myself over now.
160
00:09:27.450 --> 00:09:30.970
I think sometimes that cynicism that wrestling fans have kind
161
00:09:31.009 --> 00:09:35.169
of beat into them creeps in. This was just a
162
00:09:35.210 --> 00:09:36.870
true reflection of how people felt about that guy.
163
00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:39.019
Yeah.
164
00:09:39.139 --> 00:09:42.289
Some of the stuff that happened in the show, I've
165
00:09:42.309 --> 00:09:45.750
got some stuff to raise on that front, but I
166
00:09:45.789 --> 00:09:47.909
don't have anywhere near the connections you do, but I
167
00:09:47.950 --> 00:09:50.889
do have some people in both companies that I do
168
00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.440
know and have communicated with. And actually a couple of
169
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.700
them proactively reached out to me and were like, please
170
00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:01.600
don't ask me for anything. The entire locker room is
171
00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.840
just hurting and nobody wants to talk about it. But
172
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.529
he was loved in both companies, in Japan, everywhere he went.
173
00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:15.289
I have not seen hints of a single story. Even
174
00:10:15.350 --> 00:10:17.720
the guy who ostensibly was the reason he left WWE,
175
00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:22.500
He's talking about what a great guy he was. Like Enzo,
176
00:10:23.259 --> 00:10:25.779
one of the reasons that was floated around that Pac
177
00:10:25.820 --> 00:10:27.879
left WWE was to stop, to not have.
178
00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:29.240
To work with Enzo Amore anymore.
179
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:31.919
And even he was on social media talking about what
180
00:10:31.940 --> 00:10:32.659
a great guy he was.
181
00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:34.159
Yeah.
182
00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.360
When even the people that you dislike love you, man,
183
00:10:37.899 --> 00:10:38.820
you've done something right.
184
00:10:40.820 --> 00:10:43.580
The story of Darby saying, I thought, you know, when
185
00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:44.659
he showed up, he's gonna be like, I don't want
186
00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:46.059
to do any of this circus stuff. I don't want
187
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.860
to do any of this silly stuff. um i can't
188
00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:49.559
remember the term he used and he's like no he
189
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:51.480
was kind of game like that was fun you know
190
00:10:51.500 --> 00:10:53.860
he was because pock is the guy that you would
191
00:10:53.899 --> 00:10:56.759
expect would be like you want me to do what
192
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:01.029
no i take this too seriously um you know on
193
00:11:01.049 --> 00:11:02.909
saturday night i commented on that i was like i
194
00:11:02.929 --> 00:11:04.509
didn't i didn't think andrade doing the stuff he was
195
00:11:04.529 --> 00:11:08.250
doing fit the the attitude somebody should have if they're
196
00:11:08.389 --> 00:11:10.500
actually taking their opponent into consideration in that moment of
197
00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:13.929
defending a title um As much as the fans dug it,
198
00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:15.190
you know, it was on my mind watching. I had
199
00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:16.990
no idea it was Poc's last match when I watched that,
200
00:11:17.009 --> 00:11:18.970
but I was like, I always had this feeling like
201
00:11:19.009 --> 00:11:24.909
he deserved to be re because of how good he
202
00:11:25.019 --> 00:11:28.840
was as a craftsman in that ring and how very,
203
00:11:28.899 --> 00:11:32.330
very seriously he took his craft and his approach to it.
204
00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:37.759
I felt he deserved to be respected by his opponents
205
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.309
to have a match. that reflected how seriously he took
206
00:11:41.350 --> 00:11:43.070
things and and i i wouldn't have brought that up
207
00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:45.429
except darby did tonight you know what i mean like
208
00:11:45.450 --> 00:11:46.690
darby's like yeah i kind of thought he wouldn't want
209
00:11:46.710 --> 00:11:47.850
to do it and it was kind of cool that
210
00:11:47.870 --> 00:11:50.080
he was like oh no i'll play i'll play in
211
00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:53.940
your i'll play in your sandbox literally and figuratively.
212
00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:56.039
Um orange cassidy as well.
213
00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:59.299
Yeah yep uh but when it was time you know
214
00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:01.399
when it's time to turn it up um and have
215
00:12:01.419 --> 00:12:04.860
a a serious match i mean he is you know,
216
00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:09.000
Chris Benoit meets Dynamite Kid meets Bret Hart, you know, style-wise.
217
00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:12.000
You know, I told, I think it was Zach Hader
218
00:12:12.019 --> 00:12:14.450
on the flagship when he called him a high flyer.
219
00:12:14.470 --> 00:12:17.889
And I was like, yeah, of course, but that's not
220
00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:19.350
the first thing I think of when I think of Pac.
221
00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:21.409
There's a lot of high flyers, but what Pac did
222
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.350
was the, the crispness and the perfection of the execution,
223
00:12:25.370 --> 00:12:28.590
the precision, adding a little extra oomph to the basic moves.
224
00:12:28.629 --> 00:12:31.009
I wrote that in the cover story this week too, that,
225
00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:33.250
that it wasn't, yes, he was a great high flyer,
226
00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:35.450
but it was, it was the other thing, the little
227
00:12:35.509 --> 00:12:39.350
things that he does that I really like and appreciate
228
00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:41.669
in a match, you know, more than just fitting in
229
00:12:41.690 --> 00:12:44.450
a bunch of high spots and flying moves. He, he
230
00:12:44.889 --> 00:12:47.549
was an embodiment of that. And what came across and
231
00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:51.460
all my conversations with, with wrestlers who knew him now
232
00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.179
and in the past and, um, that he was, and
233
00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:58.279
I'm glad Excalibur said at the beginning of the show
234
00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:00.240
and his prepared statement that he had trouble getting through.
235
00:13:00.259 --> 00:13:02.059
That was a start of a whole two and a
236
00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:05.779
half hours of, of, uh, people joking up, including people
237
00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.179
sitting at home and trying to type up reports. Um,
238
00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.320
he said that he was your wrestler's favorite wrestler. Um,
239
00:13:12.809 --> 00:13:16.769
your favorite wrestlers, favorite wrestler. And that came through more
240
00:13:16.789 --> 00:13:18.529
in the last few days than I realized, but it
241
00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:21.029
didn't surprise me at all. You know, like, but I
242
00:13:21.049 --> 00:13:23.389
was like, Oh, did some people think, Oh, we took
243
00:13:23.429 --> 00:13:24.799
things a little too seriously. You heard that about Bret
244
00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:27.120
Hart sometimes like, Oh, it takes himself a little too seriously.
245
00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:31.039
That was not Pac. Like I specifically asked someone, did
246
00:13:31.059 --> 00:13:33.039
he have trouble doing jobs? Cause a little bit of
247
00:13:33.100 --> 00:13:37.450
reputation that, you know, he might've not wanted to do jobs.
248
00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:39.830
I heard that. He goes, no, he wanted to be
249
00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.340
on the show. That's what he wanted. He didn't have
250
00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:47.429
any problem, um, being asked to do jobs. He just
251
00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:50.990
wanted to participate and be put in a position where
252
00:13:51.009 --> 00:13:53.649
he could show what he could do against a good opponent. Um,
253
00:13:54.129 --> 00:14:01.169
so yeah, I just, I'm, I, uh, so Pog, Ben, sadly, we,
254
00:14:01.269 --> 00:14:03.500
we got to know him better, um, because of this show.
255
00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:05.440
I don't know that I've ever seen a better, seen
256
00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:08.059
a better tribute show, um, a double plus from a
257
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.970
W uh, on the, in, in that regard. Um, it
258
00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:15.899
has to be so difficult to like, well, first of all,
259
00:14:15.909 --> 00:14:18.789
we saw it with like orange Cassidy. I mean, trying to,
260
00:14:19.450 --> 00:14:21.370
when the bell rang and he just looked at the
261
00:14:21.429 --> 00:14:24.549
sky and he looked and he's like, I can't do this.
262
00:14:24.610 --> 00:14:26.149
And then he kind of went through the motions, moxie
263
00:14:26.169 --> 00:14:27.610
put on a hammer lock and he's like, Oh, let
264
00:14:27.629 --> 00:14:28.990
me reach for the ropes, try to break it. And
265
00:14:29.009 --> 00:14:30.970
he wasn't doing stick when it was kind of slow motion.
266
00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:34.149
It's hard. Just wasn't in it. It was just, um,
267
00:14:34.450 --> 00:14:37.549
you know, the, the Nick, Nick Jackson was just sobbing
268
00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:40.289
on the stage and, I mean, you could just see
269
00:14:42.029 --> 00:14:44.870
the love that people had for him and how they
270
00:14:44.929 --> 00:14:48.330
pushed through. Tony Schiavone said, Tony Schiavone, by the way,
271
00:14:48.350 --> 00:14:50.370
did a great job with the in-ring tribute tonight. And
272
00:14:50.710 --> 00:14:53.190
I thought did a really nice job on commentary saying,
273
00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:55.529
you know, it's really difficult for these wrestlers to do
274
00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:58.389
what they're doing tonight with what's going on and all
275
00:14:58.409 --> 00:15:01.289
the emotions. But, you know, it's what Paco would have wanted.
276
00:15:01.340 --> 00:15:05.960
It's what Paco would have done. It is out of
277
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.320
respect to him. You go and you continue on. that
278
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.139
line sometimes feels like it's just an excuse to not
279
00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:13.970
give up revenue or not give up a show or,
280
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.360
you know, got TV time to fill. So we just
281
00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:17.440
say it's what he wanted, but I do, I believe
282
00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:20.379
that would have either done in this situation or would
283
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:21.870
want everyone to go out there and do their best.
284
00:15:21.929 --> 00:15:24.509
But he also, I think would be obviously, you know,
285
00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:29.990
touched and honored by what was said about him and,
286
00:15:30.210 --> 00:15:33.190
and the, you know, the, the level of, of, of
287
00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:37.480
intense positive feelings for him professionally and personally. Like I said,
288
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:40.820
we can all, Only hope for something even close to that.
289
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:42.139
Yeah.
290
00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:47.409
Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of
291
00:15:47.610 --> 00:15:50.129
all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily
292
00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:55.009
casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and
293
00:15:55.070 --> 00:15:58.100
subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day
294
00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:00.100
free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a
295
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.360
bit and see if you like the service. And then
296
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:04.720
sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free
297
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.360
versions of our free shows like the Wade Keller Post Shows,
298
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.230
the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, our flashbacks, and also the
299
00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:13.909
PWTorch Daily Cast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined
300
00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:17.110
listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock
301
00:16:17.309 --> 00:16:20.169
all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade,
302
00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:21.799
The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd
303
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.200
every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and
304
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.799
an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and
305
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.799
different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon and
306
00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.409
search PWTorch. and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify
307
00:16:37.529 --> 00:16:40.840
or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works, go
308
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:45.919
to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. Chris.
309
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.500
I feel like a lot of what he's done has
310
00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:51.389
flown under the radar because of his visa problems and
311
00:16:51.409 --> 00:16:52.950
the fact that a lot of his early career was
312
00:16:53.269 --> 00:16:55.529
in smaller companies. I don't know how much you saw
313
00:16:55.590 --> 00:16:59.110
of him in like Dragon Gate, but... To start his career,
314
00:16:59.629 --> 00:17:01.350
not only was he a high flyer, but that was
315
00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:05.170
basically all he did. A lot of his matches, he
316
00:17:05.190 --> 00:17:07.880
spent an inordinate amount of time just climbing to the
317
00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:08.279
top rope.
318
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.539
He started as a backyard wrestler, and that was all about,
319
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.160
you know, that era was all about just doing stunts.
320
00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:15.500
I remember the first couple of matches of his I
321
00:17:15.579 --> 00:17:18.160
saw when he was still jungle pack, and he would
322
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:20.960
hit a top rope move and then immediately go back
323
00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:22.200
out and climb up the ropes again.
324
00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:22.759
And I was just.
325
00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:26.990
At some point, this stops being wrestling, but he has...
326
00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:32.029
refined and reinvented himself to the point where he became
327
00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:35.089
a complete wrestler and he literally could do it all.
328
00:17:36.009 --> 00:17:39.230
And then you could see how much it meant.
329
00:17:40.150 --> 00:17:41.710
The one, one of the moments that was sticking in
330
00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:45.720
my head, Orange Cassidy was rough to watch because that just,
331
00:17:46.299 --> 00:17:49.759
that was so incongruous for him. But the one that
332
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.579
really sticks in my head is Will Ospreay's reaction after
333
00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:53.759
he hit the black arrow.
334
00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:54.259
Yes.
335
00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:58.670
And you could see how crucial that was to him.
336
00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:02.880
I would imagine he's done moves similar to that a
337
00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:06.920
hundred times, but he nailed it perfectly. And you could
338
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.059
see how much it meant to him to hit that
339
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.220
move in that match.
340
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.539
And that one, that one really broke me.
341
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.500
For people to see it. He just, he kneeled on
342
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.920
the mat and just pounded the mat and had this
343
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.779
emotional eruption that was pent up in a lot of
344
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.849
people's let the emotions flow on the ring entrance and
345
00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:29.450
in the ring itself. And Ospreay was holding it together.
346
00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:34.450
You know, just, he just, he wasn't emoting in the
347
00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:36.279
same way that, that, you know, plenty of other people
348
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.339
did on the show. And it was interesting because it
349
00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:43.779
was there, but he, he, it didn't show itself until
350
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.700
that moment. That was his tribute to Pac. It was
351
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:48.849
him doing a move that that was Pac's move and
352
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.400
he landed it. And then, then, You know, the hugs
353
00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:54.049
with Ricochet at the start of the match, at the
354
00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:56.009
end of the match. I mean, there's just so many
355
00:18:56.049 --> 00:18:59.769
moments on this show. I mean, I'm just randomly, you know,
356
00:18:59.789 --> 00:19:04.390
recalling them. Yeah, I just, I don't, the, I mean, seriously,
357
00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:08.130
like we could have led with the, the mock sleep
358
00:19:08.410 --> 00:19:11.480
promo from Saturday night in front of the retaining wall.
359
00:19:12.220 --> 00:19:16.420
It sounded like this, like that he knew something was
360
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:17.759
going to happen. Didn't know what.
361
00:19:17.779 --> 00:19:17.980
Yes.
362
00:19:19.329 --> 00:19:20.710
I have notes on that.
363
00:19:20.829 --> 00:19:22.049
Yeah, talk about it, Chris.
364
00:19:23.329 --> 00:19:26.150
And if this were any other night, we would be
365
00:19:26.190 --> 00:19:28.950
probably leading the show with what a phenomenal promo that
366
00:19:29.009 --> 00:19:31.789
was and how it really hit at the essence of
367
00:19:31.869 --> 00:19:34.490
what they do. It was a great way for Moxley
368
00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:37.789
to sort of reposition himself after losing a title shot.
369
00:19:38.710 --> 00:19:40.650
But instead, I found myself.
370
00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:43.309
And by the way, and put over Will Ospreay. like
371
00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:51.740
the generosity and the gesture of it was all I mean,
372
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:56.140
he took every ounce of credibility he had and and
373
00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:58.940
passed it as best he could. Like if there was
374
00:19:59.059 --> 00:20:04.819
that was the most genuine, heartfelt, intentional torch passing. in
375
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:06.880
a promo that I've seen in as much as that,
376
00:20:07.339 --> 00:20:09.000
you know, that, that was a story and that was
377
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:10.509
to a degree in real life. I mean, to have
378
00:20:10.529 --> 00:20:13.430
Moxley endorse you like that, Chris, sorry for interrupting, but like,
379
00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:17.630
I want to get across like that, that, the, the
380
00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:20.710
storyline and real life endorsement of Osprey and then the
381
00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:23.890
speech of what is on his shoulders and the responsibility
382
00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:27.170
that Osprey has, it makes the world title and Osprey's
383
00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:29.140
reign feel so much more important and just magnified it.
384
00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:32.170
It is an incredibly difficult line to walk because not
385
00:20:32.230 --> 00:20:34.269
only did he put Ospreay over, but he said, you know,
386
00:20:34.349 --> 00:20:36.559
Ospreay was the better man tonight. He left the door
387
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.400
open to say on another night, I might be the
388
00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:41.200
better man. That is so hard to walk that line.
389
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.500
But it was a phenomenal promo. And I found myself
390
00:20:44.539 --> 00:20:46.910
doing two things. I was waiting to see if Pac
391
00:20:46.930 --> 00:20:48.289
was going to talk, if they were going to put
392
00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:49.509
him on the camera, if that was.
393
00:20:49.450 --> 00:20:50.390
Part of that promo.
394
00:20:51.089 --> 00:20:55.190
And then every mention of the stuff that you said
395
00:20:55.349 --> 00:20:58.089
where Moxley sounds like he could feel it. He talks
396
00:20:58.150 --> 00:21:01.950
about losing matches, losing in life, losing people.
397
00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:03.039
And I cringed.
398
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.940
And then he talked about eulogies and being at people's funerals.
399
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.220
And there's two types of eulogies. People talk about what
400
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.839
you did and people talk about who you were. And
401
00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:12.839
I cringed again.
402
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.509
And I'm like, is he some sort of seer?
403
00:21:16.750 --> 00:21:18.869
And I think that's why when they introduced it, they
404
00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:21.660
said it was going to be an emotional message. but
405
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.460
it was on another level of eerie and yet it
406
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.960
still resonated as an incredible promo.
407
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.539
If Moxley had not done promos in that realm before,
408
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.740
I don't know what conspiracy theory there would be about,
409
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:40.880
you know, what was going on there and what effect
410
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.069
did it have? Or yeah, I mean like it, it
411
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.150
eerie is right. Um, but it is the way that
412
00:21:48.210 --> 00:21:54.000
Moxley approaches the business. Like, he takes, he takes it
413
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.880
seriously in a, in a similar intensity, but in different
414
00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:01.400
ways that Puck did. Um, you know, the, the, he
415
00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:04.440
is speaking his passion and his truth when he talks about,
416
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:06.960
you know, this is what his kids would dream to doing.
417
00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:07.759
Yeah.
418
00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:11.920
And there's not enough people around here appreciating it. Um,
419
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:13.380
you know, and that was the beginning of the kind
420
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.420
of the, the Moxley story arc and the death riders,
421
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:17.680
which is always confusing because it's a baby face promo,
422
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:20.180
but he was playing heel and, you know, and, and it, it,
423
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.630
felt incongruent with traditional storytelling and that's why fans keep
424
00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:25.970
cheering no matter what he does and he does some
425
00:22:26.009 --> 00:22:28.430
over-the-top things that sort of aren't super credible in the
426
00:22:28.470 --> 00:22:30.769
world of pro wrestling and yet there's this authenticity and
427
00:22:30.789 --> 00:22:36.240
this intensity and a cool factor to him that where
428
00:22:36.259 --> 00:22:39.099
you're just hanging on his every word and you're not
429
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:44.019
hanging on his every word because it's witty or breaking
430
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.480
a fourth wall in meta or shooting on someone. You
431
00:22:47.509 --> 00:22:50.109
hang on his every word because it does feel like
432
00:22:50.150 --> 00:22:58.509
a genuine rah-rah speech. Inspirational speech from somebody who is
433
00:22:58.630 --> 00:23:03.599
trying to make wrestlers respect the business as much as
434
00:23:03.619 --> 00:23:07.000
he believes it deserves to be respected and to appreciate
435
00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:09.400
the craft and the opportunity to perform it in front
436
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:13.109
of huge crowds, but also, you know, Mox is willing
437
00:23:13.329 --> 00:23:14.769
to work in front of small crowds. Like he said,
438
00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:16.690
he told me in the interview when he was headed
439
00:23:16.710 --> 00:23:19.130
to AEW or when he left WWE, he was like,
440
00:23:19.470 --> 00:23:21.109
I didn't even open the envelope with our offer. I
441
00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:23.420
just want to go do my thing and CZW in
442
00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:26.900
front of 80 people. Like it's not the money, you know? And,
443
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.059
and with Pac, you talk about him and all the,
444
00:23:29.259 --> 00:23:31.700
all the small shows he worked as he kind of
445
00:23:31.779 --> 00:23:34.220
worked his way up. And, you know, where, where was
446
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:37.910
his place in wrestling at during the time that he
447
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:41.670
was coming up? Because he, he went from backyard wrestler
448
00:23:41.809 --> 00:23:46.190
to us, to us, uh, a world where WCW didn't exist.
449
00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:49.970
Vincent man was the dominant us promoter. He had the
450
00:23:50.049 --> 00:23:53.049
accent and he wasn't tall and he worked a style
451
00:23:53.109 --> 00:23:54.710
until two or five live. That wasn't something that would
452
00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:58.549
be featured. And, and, and it was, you know, he
453
00:23:58.589 --> 00:24:00.890
found his places. I mean, that's where, you know, PWG,
454
00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:02.970
that's where I met the bucks and Excalibur had a
455
00:24:02.990 --> 00:24:04.910
history with him there for sure. And so many others
456
00:24:04.930 --> 00:24:08.069
who are involved in AW now, um, There's so much
457
00:24:08.130 --> 00:24:14.190
about Pac's journey that parallels the journey that led to
458
00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:17.329
the launch of the AEW brand. And we can say
459
00:24:17.349 --> 00:24:19.730
that about a lot of people. I mean, Cody Rhodes,
460
00:24:19.809 --> 00:24:22.359
don't forget about him. There's something about Cody leaving WWE
461
00:24:22.390 --> 00:24:25.200
and starting a new company. And Kenny Omega with Japan
462
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.180
and how influential New Japan and Japan wrestling in general,
463
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.099
international wrestling is on AEW. But, you know, and the
464
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:34.019
Young Bucks, obviously, with the U.S. Indy scene. I mean,
465
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.519
a lot came together. But Pac was all of those.
466
00:24:37.430 --> 00:24:38.890
And first, as well.
467
00:24:38.910 --> 00:24:42.839
He was Japan. Yes, he was Japan. He was international
468
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:49.559
indie scene. He left a company like Cody did, kind
469
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.220
of on his own terms to a degree. I mean,
470
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.799
there were legal things that kept him around a little bit.
471
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:59.329
And PWG. I mean, Pac embodied aspects of Cody and
472
00:24:59.410 --> 00:25:03.210
Kenny and the Bucks, the four wrestling founders of the brand.
473
00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:04.670
He was.
474
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.480
He was part of all of that. And that's part
475
00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:10.619
of why the reaction to him tonight was there is
476
00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:14.980
everybody shared something in common with the journey he took. Well,
477
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.200
not everybody in AEW, but like almost everybody in AEW,
478
00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:23.240
maybe everybody, identifies with something about his journey. And so
479
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.680
much of what he was great at is what AEW
480
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:29.160
stands for or aspires to stand for or what its
481
00:25:29.259 --> 00:25:31.000
fans want AEW to embody.
482
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.579
Without Pac, there's no Willow Spray. There's no Gabe Kidd.
483
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:37.299
These are all.
484
00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:41.130
British wrestlers who followed his template for how to get seen.
485
00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:45.150
Because British wrestling for a long time didn't exist. Like,
486
00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:47.890
it was just, you know, there's a whole lost generation
487
00:25:47.950 --> 00:25:51.430
in there. People like Jody Fleisch, who was a phenomenal
488
00:25:51.470 --> 00:25:54.799
high flyer that nobody in North America ever saw, really.
489
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:59.160
And Pac almost fell into that category, but he managed
490
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.359
to catch on to the wave of North American indies
491
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:06.160
being revitalized just at the right time. And he got
492
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.759
noticed through Ring of Honor's partnership with Dragon Gate. And
493
00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:14.259
then when he started working, when the Young Bucks went
494
00:26:14.299 --> 00:26:16.059
to Japan, he basically took care of them.
495
00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:17.059
If you've read the.
496
00:26:17.019 --> 00:26:19.849
Young Bucks book, it's all in there. It's not the
497
00:26:19.869 --> 00:26:21.490
greatest book in the world, but I did learn a
498
00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:24.890
lot about their upbringing and how they got into the business.
499
00:26:24.910 --> 00:26:28.490
And Pac plays a huge role in that. And when
500
00:26:28.509 --> 00:26:32.829
you think about, obviously Dynamite Kid was in Japan long
501
00:26:32.869 --> 00:26:37.710
before But Pac really was the modern-day trailblazer for somebody
502
00:26:37.849 --> 00:26:41.450
who just went around the world and showed that you
503
00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:47.809
can make success by traveling with wrestling. And it's kind
504
00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:51.190
of eerie to think about how much of what we
505
00:26:51.230 --> 00:26:54.890
saw tonight wouldn't have been there without his.
506
00:26:56.470 --> 00:26:57.990
Showing the way of how to do it.
507
00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:00.380
Well put.
508
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.539
I mean, yes.
509
00:27:03.549 --> 00:27:06.210
The opportunity that wrestlers had to tell the story tonight,
510
00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:12.500
sharing those aspects of everything you just talked about there,
511
00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:16.579
created a complete picture. I mean, there's so many fans
512
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:22.349
who saw Pac as a really good wrestler. Not often
513
00:27:22.390 --> 00:27:25.710
talked about, but one of the first big signings for AEW.
514
00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:28.940
It doesn't get talked about in that way. because of
515
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.799
his on and off stretches of time working on Dynamite
516
00:27:33.460 --> 00:27:38.759
and working AW for all kinds of reasons. But I
517
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.279
think a fan who didn't understand is going to be
518
00:27:42.900 --> 00:27:48.420
curious to explore more about his career after this show
519
00:27:49.869 --> 00:27:52.769
if they didn't fully appreciate him and kind of had
520
00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:56.809
him sort of interchangeable with other just good kind of
521
00:27:56.829 --> 00:28:01.319
cruiserweight-sized wrestlers who, who do dives and there's just so
522
00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.799
much more, uh, to him.
523
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:06.640
I'm not sure how much, sorry, go ahead.
524
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:07.880
No, no, you go, Chris.
525
00:28:07.900 --> 00:28:09.180
I was going to say, I'm not sure how much
526
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.200
Dragon Gate you can actually find online these days, some
527
00:28:12.220 --> 00:28:15.309
of the older shows, but they're definitely worth watching. Um,
528
00:28:15.369 --> 00:28:18.619
because you wouldn't even recognize the guy if it wasn't
529
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:23.809
for his ears. His journey is phenomenal.
530
00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:26.089
I keep having instances of why this tribute show is
531
00:28:26.109 --> 00:28:30.109
just phenomenal. Um, And one of them is the video
532
00:28:30.150 --> 00:28:31.950
at the end and showing him as a little kid.
533
00:28:32.589 --> 00:28:35.579
And as a teenager, they had grainy footage of him
534
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:39.859
wrestling Brodie Lee. They had footage of him sharing a
535
00:28:40.259 --> 00:28:43.519
room with Andy, the butcher Williams that was on the
536
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:46.839
photo montage too, on the big screen. And, and obviously
537
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.769
just him wrestling so many AW wrestlers, you know, Brian
538
00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:54.309
Danielson and on and on. It's just a phenomenal video
539
00:28:55.150 --> 00:29:03.930
and perfect footage. song accompaniment, um, uh, during the video. Um, geez,
540
00:29:04.130 --> 00:29:08.910
I mean, the, the, um, it was, uh, they know
541
00:29:08.950 --> 00:29:15.309
how to speak by the Manchester orchestra and it was just, yeah.
542
00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:17.109
I mean, oh, and then the closing scene, that's what
543
00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:19.849
I was thinking of. Um, he, to have a clip
544
00:29:19.930 --> 00:29:23.789
of him sitting on a chair, looking like Pac, you know, like, um,
545
00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:27.619
just kind of street clothes, you know, of him, Just
546
00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:29.839
looking at the camera, sitting on a chair and saying,
547
00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:32.299
till we meet again and blowing kisses at the camera.
548
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:34.880
Where is, I was like, is that AI? Like, where
549
00:29:34.900 --> 00:29:38.349
do you come How do you have such perfect footage?
550
00:29:39.009 --> 00:29:41.569
You had the Moxley promo from Saturday night. You got that.
551
00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:44.150
There were so many other clips that I don't know
552
00:29:44.430 --> 00:29:47.430
what that production team did and who, who was behind
553
00:29:47.490 --> 00:29:50.880
it and how much time it took to put that together.
554
00:29:51.450 --> 00:29:57.289
But they had, you know, a few days and I mean, I,
555
00:29:58.069 --> 00:29:59.450
I don't know if they just stayed up all night,
556
00:29:59.529 --> 00:30:01.670
but I mean, I just want to give credit to
557
00:30:01.730 --> 00:30:07.130
whoever put that effort and time and perfection in, because
558
00:30:07.150 --> 00:30:09.859
that was pulling video from a lot of different places,
559
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.799
a lot of different sources. And it was just perfect.
560
00:30:12.819 --> 00:30:14.500
I'm sure they didn't own all of it either.
561
00:30:14.539 --> 00:30:17.680
Like to put that together, it must've taken forever.
562
00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:20.250
I really hope it wasn't AI, but yeah.
563
00:30:20.509 --> 00:30:20.690
Wow.
564
00:30:20.809 --> 00:30:24.069
Oh, I'm sure. I say that facetiously. I don't think
565
00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:26.589
they would've done that. My point is it was so perfect.
566
00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:32.759
how could it not be? You know what I mean? Um, and, uh, okay.
567
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:34.960
So Zach Barber says that clip was actually pox tribute
568
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.400
to butcher from collision a couple of weeks ago.
569
00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:36.920
Yeah.
570
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:43.470
Um, makes sense. Um, and so they, they did, they, they,
571
00:30:43.690 --> 00:30:47.029
they artfully put so much of this together and the, the,
572
00:30:47.170 --> 00:30:53.170
the wrestler promos, you know, in the locker room. Um, yeah,
573
00:30:53.269 --> 00:30:55.740
I don't know. I've just, I'm gushing. I'm like, I,
574
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.809
I just, It was what he deserved and they can
575
00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:01.109
be proud that they gave him what he deserved. I
576
00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:03.990
can only imagine how his parents and wife feel. I mean,
577
00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:07.690
you know, your family member comes home from work and
578
00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:10.089
he's hurting and he might be complaining about something or
579
00:31:10.109 --> 00:31:12.299
he might be telling a funny story. Did they have
580
00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:16.960
any idea truly how much he was beloved and respected?
581
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.599
You know, how could they to that degree? This has
582
00:31:20.619 --> 00:31:23.619
to just be, you know, amazing for them.
583
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:24.950
Yeah, for sure.
584
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:28.720
All right, let's take a deep breath, introduce ourselves quickly here.
585
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:31.369
I want to throw some chat comments up. We've got
586
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:33.950
Rude Dog waiting to join us on the show as
587
00:31:34.029 --> 00:31:38.450
a caller also. Not a lot to the show to
588
00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:40.210
talk about, but, you know, we can do a little
589
00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:44.490
bit of that. But, you know, it was just background
590
00:31:44.529 --> 00:31:49.170
for people talking about POC, understandably, so and as it
591
00:31:49.210 --> 00:31:49.710
should have been.
592
00:31:53.089 --> 00:31:56.109
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk? Then join me,
593
00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:59.730
Jason Powell, host of the three-weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
594
00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:02.420
Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
595
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:05.140
me and my team at ProWrestling.net, along with other Pro
596
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:08.599
Wrestling Media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features
597
00:32:08.660 --> 00:32:12.019
long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry.
598
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:16.119
Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps,
599
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:22.140
or visit us directly at PWBoom.com. Once again, that's PWBoom.com.
600
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:28.339
This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show on Wednesday,
601
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.660
September 30th, 2026. I'm Wade Keller, host of the show, editor, publisher,
602
00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:34.119
founder of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter and the
603
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:38.130
website pwtorch.com. I also host a number of podcasts throughout
604
00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:40.789
the week, including yesterday's Blue Logo Show, the flagship. We
605
00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:43.329
talked about Pac for, I don't know, 45 minutes at
606
00:32:43.349 --> 00:32:45.609
the top of that show. So check that out. Zach Haydorn,
607
00:32:45.950 --> 00:32:48.049
formerly of Pro Wrestling Torch, now of Sports Illustrated and
608
00:32:48.089 --> 00:32:52.549
Brass Ring Media. and a frequent contributor to the PWTorch
609
00:32:52.569 --> 00:32:55.710
VIP forum, by the way. Joined me yesterday. If you
610
00:32:55.750 --> 00:32:58.559
have not listened to that, I encourage you to do so.
611
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.460
Search Wade Keller in your podcast app and subscribe to
612
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:03.140
the Blue Logo Show. The flagship will be one of
613
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:07.839
the top shows on that listing with a lot of
614
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:11.720
details on the POC situation, including just talking about what's
615
00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:14.700
known about the circumstances of when he was found and
616
00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:20.970
his death. So anyway, wow. Um, and, uh, Oh, you'll
617
00:33:20.990 --> 00:33:22.650
see a red logo pop up too. Uh, that's our
618
00:33:22.710 --> 00:33:25.009
post-show podcast feed, the audio only feed. So subscribe to
619
00:33:25.049 --> 00:33:27.109
that too. And while you're at it, be sure to
620
00:33:27.130 --> 00:33:30.500
search PW torch to subscribe to the PW torch daily
621
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:34.180
cast feed. That includes the all elite conversation club. Certainly
622
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.359
Joel and Greg will be talking about POC, um, and
623
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.019
all out and much more. Brian Danielson, uh, will be
624
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:42.869
a talking point once we kind of get past the, uh, the, the,
625
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:45.730
the POC aspect of this too. Um, so look for
626
00:33:45.769 --> 00:33:47.329
that different show each day of the week on the
627
00:33:47.349 --> 00:33:47.910
daily cast feed.
628
00:33:47.950 --> 00:33:48.190
It's free.
629
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.750
And it has different shows each day of the week
630
00:33:50.769 --> 00:33:53.809
with different pairs of hosts and different themes and topics.
631
00:33:55.069 --> 00:33:58.549
So check that out. If you aren't a PWTorch VIP member,
632
00:33:58.970 --> 00:34:02.059
I encourage you to become a PWTorch VIP member. Just
633
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.299
search or just enter PWTorchVIPinfo.com for full information on that.
634
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.440
You can join the conversation on POC in the VIP
635
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.659
forum and also read this week's cover story. that I
636
00:34:12.699 --> 00:34:15.159
wrote on POC and also our coverage of All Out,
637
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:18.329
including the newsletter exclusive roundtable reviews from the team, giving
638
00:34:18.349 --> 00:34:21.630
their scores and long form reviews. That is also posted
639
00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:25.389
on the VIP website. That includes my review and score
640
00:34:25.409 --> 00:34:28.030
for the event too. We're here to talk Dynamite tonight,
641
00:34:28.710 --> 00:34:32.940
and I am joined by Chris Lansdell, a PW Torch contributor,
642
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.320
a frequent co-host with me on post shows. Chris, welcome.
643
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.880
Thanks for doing this.
644
00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:40.619
Yeah, my pleasure as always.
645
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.329
Um, maybe one of these days I'll do a post-show
646
00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:46.710
that isn't a Memorial show. Cause I was on the
647
00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:48.489
rebel show was the last time I was on and
648
00:34:48.530 --> 00:34:51.329
now with this one. So I hope I'm not bad luck.
649
00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:54.769
I hope I'm not a curse, but, um, yeah, just, um,
650
00:34:55.230 --> 00:34:59.139
it was a really emotional night. Um, and I'm glad
651
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:00.880
that we get to chop it up with some people.
652
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:02.039
Yeah.
653
00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:05.190
All right. As I said, we got some, uh, lots of, uh,
654
00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:08.539
chat comments that are responding to what we're saying and
655
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:09.079
also just.
656
00:35:12.230 --> 00:35:15.070
And it looks like Wade has dropped off temporarily. I'm
657
00:35:15.090 --> 00:35:20.010
sure he'll be right back. But, yeah, emotional night, lots
658
00:35:20.070 --> 00:35:22.590
of feelings, and Wade is back.
659
00:35:23.030 --> 00:35:27.400
Yeah, I put my fingers on the trackpad and it
660
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:30.940
ended up taking me back a screen. I'm sorry about that.
661
00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.539
So a lot of comments. We're going to start with
662
00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:37.639
the Super Chats. Thank you already for Super Chats. We'll
663
00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:43.199
start with Zach Barber. Uh, Mox's promo, no hyperbole might've
664
00:35:43.219 --> 00:35:46.519
been the most extraordinary promo of all time. It was
665
00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:50.949
eerily prophetic and powerful. I want Mox to do my
666
00:35:51.050 --> 00:35:54.289
eulogy now. Don't be so sure about that, Zach. You
667
00:35:54.309 --> 00:35:58.329
got to earn his respect first. I think Mox would
668
00:35:58.349 --> 00:36:00.610
be pretty blunt. Um, I don't think we want to
669
00:36:00.670 --> 00:36:05.000
randomly assign him, uh, eulogies because Mox is real. And
670
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.199
I'm obviously joking, joking, Zach. If he got to know,
671
00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:11.760
know you well, I'm sure it would be a positive eulogy. Um, uh, yeah, that,
672
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:18.039
that was, there's something about the way mocks in, I mean,
673
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:20.179
we didn't even talk about the, the hug with Danielson
674
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.739
and Moxley either. And I know Zach commented, um, in,
675
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:28.179
in the chat elsewhere on that, um, that it, that moment,
676
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:32.739
given what's happened storyline, you know, um, yeah, this is
677
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.309
a Zach's comment to Brian Danielson coming out and reconciling
678
00:36:35.329 --> 00:36:39.050
with mocks absolutely destroyed me. That was just wonderful. Um,
679
00:36:40.030 --> 00:36:43.369
The symbolism of this, we are brought together for the
680
00:36:43.429 --> 00:36:46.150
love because of our mutual love for Pac and respect
681
00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:50.460
for him. What was another one of dozens, and I'm
682
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:55.739
not exaggerating, dozens of moving, touching, great moments included in
683
00:36:55.780 --> 00:37:01.599
this A double plus tribute episode to Pac. Comment on that, Chris.
684
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:05.119
I don't think we're going to see much more of
685
00:37:05.179 --> 00:37:06.940
that going forward. I think this was a one night
686
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.929
only type of thing. Cause storyline, it makes no sense,
687
00:37:10.110 --> 00:37:13.800
but we're going to ignore that tonight. It was incredibly moving.
688
00:37:14.969 --> 00:37:17.460
I was sitting on the edge of my seat, terrified
689
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:20.920
the entire match because Danielson doesn't seem to know anything
690
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:24.260
other than all full speed all the time, all.
691
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:25.519
Gas, no brakes. Yeah.
692
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:32.340
I mean, kind of terrifying, but fitting because he was
693
00:37:32.739 --> 00:37:36.940
a part of Danielson's career, both in and outside AEW.
694
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:39.659
And, yeah, it was just to see the two of
695
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:41.159
them sort of hugging.
696
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:43.360
Not going to lie, when there were only four Death
697
00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:47.739
Riders dressed and Moxley was being coy on the mic,
698
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.659
I fully expected Ilya Dragunov to come out.
699
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.380
Oh, wow.
700
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.389
That would have been a perfect fit, but probably not
701
00:37:57.409 --> 00:37:59.090
a great time to be debuting someone.
702
00:37:59.610 --> 00:38:04.869
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they drew a lot of attention to
703
00:38:04.909 --> 00:38:06.989
Mox sitting at ringside. and mocks.
704
00:38:07.150 --> 00:38:07.329
Yeah.
705
00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:13.219
Playing coy was, was entertaining. Um, and, uh, and then
706
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.599
the death ready music morphing into Danielson and him coming
707
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.239
out and the crowd just erupting with yes chance. I'm
708
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:21.260
not gonna, I know there's some comments in the chat,
709
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:22.920
you know, should he, or shouldn't he, and I don't
710
00:38:22.940 --> 00:38:25.860
want to focus on that. Um, you know, I don't,
711
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.250
I don't think it's, it's, uh, an obvious, I don't
712
00:38:29.269 --> 00:38:30.929
think there's an obvious answer and I don't think it's
713
00:38:30.969 --> 00:38:35.889
egregious enough to, to condemn outright. Um, but I'm with you, Chris,
714
00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:40.710
in terms of, you know, just the, you know, if,
715
00:38:40.909 --> 00:38:43.510
if Danielson has the issues that he has, um, and
716
00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:45.929
he has retired, I mean, if there was ever going
717
00:38:45.969 --> 00:38:48.210
to be a context where he returned, this would be it.
718
00:38:48.769 --> 00:38:51.280
But I certainly, I'll just say, I was certainly hoping
719
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:56.500
he would be, um, limited in what he did so
720
00:38:56.539 --> 00:39:00.579
that it didn't distract. the concern for what's he doing
721
00:39:00.619 --> 00:39:02.869
didn't distract from what was meant to be a tribute
722
00:39:02.909 --> 00:39:05.949
to him. And that's a concern I had once the
723
00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:08.880
bell rang. And as you noted, he doesn't know any
724
00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:11.889
other speed. I still remember when he was retired and
725
00:39:11.929 --> 00:39:13.349
trying to talk his way back into coming out of
726
00:39:13.369 --> 00:39:15.570
retirement in WWE. And he was like, I'm learning a
727
00:39:15.570 --> 00:39:17.659
whole new style where you don't do bumps. It's just tumbling.
728
00:39:17.699 --> 00:39:19.619
It's just rolling. You're just doing a hold and then
729
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:21.500
you're rolling. And you're like, he wants to be in there.
730
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:23.400
He wanted to be in the ring so bad that
731
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.469
he would talk about doing a style completely different that
732
00:39:26.510 --> 00:39:28.650
he could then convince the doctors to clear him because
733
00:39:28.829 --> 00:39:30.840
there'll be no impact on my neck. I'm going to
734
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.280
reinvent wrestling. And I mean, that's how I interpreted his,
735
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.679
you know, just childlike enthusiasm for what he was doing,
736
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:37.980
how he was still able to work out in the
737
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.280
ring and do something different. and that just sticks with
738
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.179
me how much, you know, I don't, I don't know
739
00:39:42.219 --> 00:39:44.329
what went in. Obviously nobody twisted his arm to be
740
00:39:44.349 --> 00:39:47.230
in this match, but, um, I wonder, you know, how
741
00:39:47.289 --> 00:39:49.889
much he insisted. And if there was any pushback from
742
00:39:49.909 --> 00:39:51.630
people going, there's other things we can do. And he's like, no,
743
00:39:51.670 --> 00:39:52.909
I need to do it. I need to do it. And,
744
00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:55.780
you know, not going to say no, probably.
745
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:58.260
Yeah. I don't think anyone could, cause he does have
746
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.420
some sway back. I think he still works a lot
747
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:01.880
of the production side too.
748
00:40:02.139 --> 00:40:04.320
Um, I don't, I didn't have a problem with him
749
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:07.289
being in the match, um, I had a small problem
750
00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:09.030
with some of the stuff he did once he was
751
00:40:09.170 --> 00:40:11.090
in there. Like he could have done what Britt Baker
752
00:40:11.110 --> 00:40:14.489
has been doing and played it very safe, but yeah,
753
00:40:14.789 --> 00:40:19.989
he did everything that Brian Danielson normally does and not,
754
00:40:20.090 --> 00:40:20.769
was it smart?
755
00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:23.239
Probably not. But is this the time to care about it?
756
00:40:23.750 --> 00:40:25.230
Probably not. Yeah.
757
00:40:25.469 --> 00:40:25.630
Yeah.
758
00:40:25.650 --> 00:40:27.699
As Derek Mitchell says, I personally don't think tonight's the
759
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:31.460
night to cast dispersions about Danielson being, uh, back in
760
00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:35.409
the ring. Um, You know, that's just because there was
761
00:40:35.449 --> 00:40:42.230
a discussion going on, you know, in the chat. David Bryant, welcome, David, says,
762
00:40:42.250 --> 00:40:43.550
I don't think the average fan had any problem with
763
00:40:43.570 --> 00:40:44.889
Danielson being in the main event. I think we're looking
764
00:40:44.909 --> 00:40:47.710
at this through a niche lens because we are niche fans.
765
00:40:49.179 --> 00:40:50.840
But that's fine. You know, I mean, we're going to
766
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.880
notice things and talk about things that maybe the average
767
00:40:52.900 --> 00:40:55.519
fan wouldn't. That's more of a feature than a flaw.
768
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:58.579
But the reality is true. You know, what's David saying?
769
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.099
People are just like, oh, he came out of retirement
770
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:02.739
and isn't this cool? And so I don't think the
771
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.239
average fan was sitting there going, Oh, this ruined everything.
772
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:08.760
Or this is taking, you know, Oh no, now I
773
00:41:08.780 --> 00:41:09.300
can't concentrate.
774
00:41:09.340 --> 00:41:09.699
I'm worried.
775
00:41:09.739 --> 00:41:11.969
So, you know, we, we feel that way.
776
00:41:12.670 --> 00:41:12.889
Okay.
777
00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:18.610
Other chat comments here, super chats, excuse me. Derek Mitchell's
778
00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:21.150
tribute shows like the one held for Owen, Owen Hart,
779
00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:23.789
Eddie Guerrero, Brody Lee, or Bray Wyatt are extremely difficult
780
00:41:23.809 --> 00:41:27.320
to watch. Tonight's tribute was no different for Puck by accounts,
781
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.840
a wonderful man and beloved by everyone.
782
00:41:31.139 --> 00:41:31.400
Indeed.
783
00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:35.030
I mean, indeed I, yeah, I'm, So I don't want
784
00:41:35.050 --> 00:41:39.050
to rank tribute shows. I'm just saying this was magnificent.
785
00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:42.260
Derek Mitchell in another Super Chat says, when AEW held
786
00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:45.539
their first press conference, it featured The Elite and Jericho. However,
787
00:41:45.699 --> 00:41:48.059
many forget Pac was an integral part of that event
788
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:52.550
and helped establish AEW along with veterans like Jericho and Moxley. Yeah,
789
00:41:52.780 --> 00:41:56.130
he just wasn't, you know, he was, you know, Cruiserweight
790
00:41:56.150 --> 00:42:01.519
champ and, but he didn't have... the the star power
791
00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:03.179
to be the guy that you would like say to
792
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:05.099
the mainstream fan look who we got you know like
793
00:42:05.619 --> 00:42:07.280
it just he didn't he didn't get that kind of
794
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:10.409
stat he didn't have that stature in any of the
795
00:42:10.469 --> 00:42:13.510
categories where he was featured especially 205 live being a
796
00:42:13.530 --> 00:42:15.969
bit of a of a you know b show or
797
00:42:15.989 --> 00:42:19.150
c show for wwe by the end um but he
798
00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:23.219
was you know kind of a he was an embodiment
799
00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:26.250
in retrospect and even at the time, but especially in
800
00:42:26.269 --> 00:42:28.869
retrospect and embodiment of so many things that, that caused
801
00:42:28.889 --> 00:42:32.929
AW to need to exist and cause it and why
802
00:42:32.949 --> 00:42:34.489
there was a fan base willing to embrace it from
803
00:42:34.510 --> 00:42:37.210
the start and make it sustainable, you know, six, seven
804
00:42:37.250 --> 00:42:37.809
years in now.
805
00:42:38.269 --> 00:42:39.630
Um, yeah.
806
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:44.579
So Jericho was the star power. And later on Moxley, Moxley,
807
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.579
don't forget was he showed up on the first pay-per-view.
808
00:42:48.340 --> 00:42:48.619
Yeah.
809
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:49.900
I don't even know if it was the first one,
810
00:42:49.940 --> 00:42:51.980
but he, he, he was not at the original signing.
811
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.099
No, he wasn't at the press conference thing, yeah.
812
00:42:55.079 --> 00:43:00.300
Omega and Bucks were the indie darlings. Hangman was the
813
00:43:00.340 --> 00:43:04.829
next big thing. But Pac was the reclamation project. Pac
814
00:43:04.849 --> 00:43:11.389
was almost like the mission statement for AEW. We're going
815
00:43:11.429 --> 00:43:13.690
to show you what could have been done with these
816
00:43:13.730 --> 00:43:16.380
people because they don't know what to do with them.
817
00:43:17.309 --> 00:43:21.070
And it wasn't like a Shelton Benjamin or someone where
818
00:43:21.110 --> 00:43:23.590
it's like, no, he didn't get pushed because when they
819
00:43:23.630 --> 00:43:25.110
tried to push him, he flopped.
820
00:43:25.449 --> 00:43:27.800
No, it was they don't know how to push some
821
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:28.409
of these people.
822
00:43:28.469 --> 00:43:30.719
And Pac was the embodiment of that, like a guy
823
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:33.340
who just did not fit the mold of the kind
824
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:37.280
of person that got pushed. Ironically, in his recent times,
825
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:40.179
he would have fit that mold with the build that
826
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.079
he managed to put together by whatever means possible.
827
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:47.150
But he was, uh, yeah, he was a reclamation project.
828
00:43:48.690 --> 00:43:49.929
I want to know before I forget, then we'll get
829
00:43:49.969 --> 00:43:53.409
back to super chats and we'll get to Rude Dog too. Um, uh,
830
00:43:53.590 --> 00:43:57.489
Alan 4L, Alan Cunahan, a PW Torch columnist and podcaster
831
00:43:57.590 --> 00:44:01.679
and part of the VIP forum, um, did a, uh,
832
00:44:02.130 --> 00:44:09.619
tribute podcast to a number of wrestlers. Um, and he wanted,
833
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:11.460
and this was back in, uh, early 2024. So I'll,
834
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.929
you know, over two and a half years ago, he
835
00:44:14.969 --> 00:44:21.650
did a, um, two hour, 22 minute, uh, two hour,
836
00:44:21.650 --> 00:44:29.090
26 minute show on POC on then. Um, he said, uh, he,
837
00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:31.210
he knew him a bit from his Dragon Gate years. Uh,
838
00:44:31.409 --> 00:44:34.469
Alan did. And he said that, that, um, you know,
839
00:44:34.489 --> 00:44:36.389
they talked and exchanged emails back in those days. So
840
00:44:36.429 --> 00:44:39.090
we knew him back then. Um, he said that he
841
00:44:39.110 --> 00:44:42.030
was a, a lovely young man. Like when he got
842
00:44:42.070 --> 00:44:44.289
to know him early on, And then he grew into
843
00:44:44.329 --> 00:44:47.250
a great man from all accounts. And so he wants, he, he,
844
00:44:47.429 --> 00:44:51.210
he suggested he wants to share those memories again with
845
00:44:51.269 --> 00:44:54.469
a larger audience. So we're going to post them. We're
846
00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:57.309
going to post that show on one of our podcast
847
00:44:57.329 --> 00:45:00.550
feeds this week. So look for that. It could be
848
00:45:00.610 --> 00:45:02.639
on red or blue or daily cash. I'm kind of
849
00:45:02.900 --> 00:45:05.539
logistically figuring out where we can fit it in, where
850
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.900
it'll not be bumped down and be featured. So please
851
00:45:09.940 --> 00:45:12.079
just be on the lookout for that. Cause that's was
852
00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:14.380
a VIP exclusive show. uh, over two and a half
853
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.679
years ago, we're offering it for everybody. Um, just Alan,
854
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.960
you know, like, I mean, he knew him well and he, uh,
855
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:23.559
I mean, when I say, well, not as well as
856
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:25.000
the people on the show tonight, but like he knew
857
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.760
him then back then, you know, like, um, had a
858
00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:31.670
number of interactions with them, but followed his career, you know,
859
00:45:32.050 --> 00:45:33.690
from the outside, looking in as a, as a viewer,
860
00:45:33.710 --> 00:45:36.469
as a fan, like no one else. Um, and so
861
00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:38.769
that's a real special show. So if you're, if you are,
862
00:45:38.789 --> 00:45:40.250
you know, I said, you watch this show and you're like, God,
863
00:45:40.269 --> 00:45:41.869
now I got it. I want to do a deep
864
00:45:41.889 --> 00:45:46.329
dive out of respect to for Ben, but also because
865
00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:47.670
I want to know more about him if he was
866
00:45:47.710 --> 00:45:51.780
this special. I didn't really fully appreciate him. Alan's podcast
867
00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.099
will help you do that and piece together his career
868
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:56.599
in a way that we're just not going to be
869
00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.719
able to get into on tonight's show.
870
00:46:00.289 --> 00:46:00.550
Okay.
871
00:46:01.150 --> 00:46:03.170
It's great to have Alan on the staff. He just
872
00:46:03.190 --> 00:46:07.090
brings something completely different. Derek Mitchell. uh, with another super
873
00:46:07.110 --> 00:46:09.650
chess is RIP pocket, truly great performer. Who's gone way
874
00:46:09.670 --> 00:46:11.710
too soon. It is surreal to realize his last though,
875
00:46:11.730 --> 00:46:15.670
to be matched was on September 26th, 2017. And his
876
00:46:15.710 --> 00:46:18.510
final match took place this past weekend at all out
877
00:46:18.750 --> 00:46:24.320
on September 26th, 2026. Yeah. And had noticed that in the, um,
878
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:27.739
thank you, Derek. Again, generosity was super chats. Appreciate it. Uh,
879
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.800
Zach Barber says, I wish to God they didn't have
880
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:32.420
E but AW so amazing at tribute shows and making
881
00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:37.730
it feel like a true celebration of life. Um, ongoing service.
882
00:46:39.110 --> 00:46:39.269
Yeah.
883
00:46:40.030 --> 00:46:41.670
You know how I feel, Zach. I've gushed about it
884
00:46:41.730 --> 00:46:47.139
for 45 minutes here. Just amazing job that they did.
885
00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:48.699
Yeah.
886
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:52.679
iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
887
00:46:52.699 --> 00:46:56.710
Podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free
888
00:46:56.750 --> 00:47:01.699
versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts.
889
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:04.280
You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP
890
00:47:04.340 --> 00:47:06.340
on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of
891
00:47:06.380 --> 00:47:09.969
VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup,
892
00:47:09.989 --> 00:47:13.210
which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free
893
00:47:13.250 --> 00:47:16.909
shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on
894
00:47:16.929 --> 00:47:20.239
the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial.
895
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.739
And after that, you can become a VIP member using
896
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:25.960
your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening
897
00:47:26.019 --> 00:47:29.639
experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives,
898
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:33.360
including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything
899
00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:35.519
with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with
900
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:39.010
Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just
901
00:47:39.030 --> 00:47:43.750
search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. So I want
902
00:47:43.769 --> 00:47:46.250
to give some time to some other chats, but first
903
00:47:46.329 --> 00:47:47.829
I want to bring a rude dog onto the show
904
00:47:47.869 --> 00:47:50.090
to talk about this. So, um, if you had, uh,
905
00:47:50.389 --> 00:47:53.030
other chat comments, we'll devote some time to it in
906
00:47:53.070 --> 00:47:56.590
a moment here. Uh, rude dog. Um, good to see it.
907
00:47:56.590 --> 00:47:58.500
Good to talk to you again. How's it going?
908
00:47:59.619 --> 00:48:00.280
Good to talk to you.
909
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:01.940
I just want to let you know, am I in
910
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:05.940
for whatever reason? I can't hear Chris. So it might
911
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.340
just be me talking to you. I don't know why
912
00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:10.539
that's the case, but I can hear you just fine
913
00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:10.820
with it.
914
00:48:11.300 --> 00:48:11.519
Okay.
915
00:48:11.659 --> 00:48:13.920
Well, Chris, this is your chance.
916
00:48:17.739 --> 00:48:18.960
I mean, I normally do it anyway.
917
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:22.400
I have a feeling if that were a larger problem,
918
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.059
the chat would let us know by now. So yeah, Ruedog,
919
00:48:25.099 --> 00:48:27.599
that's very weird, but apparently it's just you.
920
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:32.789
Oh, sorry, Chris. It's your loss.
921
00:48:32.849 --> 00:48:33.329
Not Chris's.
922
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.000
Thanks, Wade.
923
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:40.179
Don't apologize to Chris because you can't. Well, I guess
924
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:43.059
Chris does hope that you hear what he has to say.
925
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:44.679
So it is a loss for Chris, too, I guess.
926
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.610
All right, go ahead.
927
00:48:48.619 --> 00:48:51.670
But yeah, I mean, you really can't do a tribute
928
00:48:51.730 --> 00:48:52.989
show any better than that.
929
00:48:53.250 --> 00:48:54.369
Like, if you.
930
00:48:55.969 --> 00:49:00.110
Let's say you weren't even a wrestling fan and you
931
00:49:00.150 --> 00:49:02.869
just happened to tune in on TBS to.
932
00:49:02.750 --> 00:49:03.989
Watch that, you would have thought.
933
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:08.119
Like one of the biggest, most popular wrestlers in the
934
00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:09.699
world passed away.
935
00:49:10.300 --> 00:49:13.219
Like they just treated him with such class.
936
00:49:13.820 --> 00:49:17.750
And like, I don't think I'm going to be able
937
00:49:17.769 --> 00:49:21.150
to cry on this show because I don't know if
938
00:49:21.190 --> 00:49:22.369
I have any more tears.
939
00:49:22.130 --> 00:49:25.320
Left of, of how that was.
940
00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:31.539
Like, yeah, I broke down so many times, like it
941
00:49:31.579 --> 00:49:37.800
got a little exhausting, but, uh, but, but it was
942
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:42.440
worth it. And it was a, beautiful tribute and man, like,
943
00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:46.900
I mean, I'm just, I'm blown away.
944
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:47.760
Yeah.
945
00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:52.460
Yeah. Yeah. Great.
946
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:55.079
Uh, Zach, that goes, amen to that.
947
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:55.500
Yeah.
948
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.380
I mean, I think I splashed him cold water before
949
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:01.800
going on the air just to, you know, you know,
950
00:50:01.940 --> 00:50:03.980
I mean, you saw all the wrestlers fighting it. I mean,
951
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.739
orange Cassidy at the beginning, all the wrestlers in the
952
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:10.760
pre tapes, um, you know, the way that Osprey just
953
00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:14.539
erupted with his emotions, mocks after Danielson came out. I mean,
954
00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:17.960
just that holding the top rope and different people at
955
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.980
different moments where it just, it just came out, um,
956
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:25.179
and in, in so many different ways and Bryce Ramsburg
957
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:27.320
on the, on the stage. And I mean, they're just that,
958
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:28.780
that really stood out.
959
00:50:29.469 --> 00:50:33.309
Um, Marina Shafir as well. Yeah. Really, really touched.
960
00:50:33.969 --> 00:50:34.190
Yep.
961
00:50:34.429 --> 00:50:37.260
Austin Creed, uh, ducky d points out yeah he was
962
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.480
um just sobbing on his way to the ring i
963
00:50:39.500 --> 00:50:42.079
mean i don't not gonna everybody has different ways to
964
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.480
mourn and and react some knew him better than others
965
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.820
um some people don't show their emotions in that way
966
00:50:48.940 --> 00:50:51.530
others do i mean so it's it's not a contest
967
00:50:51.590 --> 00:50:54.429
but those who do show their emotions in that way
968
00:50:54.489 --> 00:50:56.789
and share that and were able to and willing to
969
00:50:56.809 --> 00:50:59.610
share that with the national audience um contributed to you
970
00:51:01.309 --> 00:51:05.630
know the the better understanding of of a beloved And
971
00:51:05.670 --> 00:51:06.409
respected Pac was.
972
00:51:06.469 --> 00:51:06.809
I mean, yeah.
973
00:51:06.849 --> 00:51:10.050
All right, Roodog, gave you a minute to gather yourself here.
974
00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:12.250
Anything else you want to say?
975
00:51:12.889 --> 00:51:15.340
Well, yeah, you brought up Austin Creed. I was so
976
00:51:15.380 --> 00:51:19.840
happy the way, like, you know, the people, even if
977
00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:21.880
their heels, like, treated them.
978
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:24.239
I mean, I don't even know what the new level are,
979
00:51:24.340 --> 00:51:29.550
but I know... they had a long relationship.
980
00:51:29.889 --> 00:51:34.590
They, you know, through WWE, Ben used to be on
981
00:51:34.670 --> 00:51:40.789
their up, up, down, down video game podcasts. And that
982
00:51:40.829 --> 00:51:42.630
was like one of the first chances you got to
983
00:51:42.690 --> 00:51:46.909
see him being just like a regular guy, like, like,
984
00:51:47.329 --> 00:51:51.130
you know, behind the scenes. And, you know, when I,
985
00:51:51.230 --> 00:51:53.869
when I met him briefly, like, that's what I, what
986
00:51:53.949 --> 00:51:57.750
I saw of him of just like, a super down
987
00:51:57.769 --> 00:52:00.409
to earth, like cool guy.
988
00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:02.639
And you could see that on there.
989
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:04.500
And I was like, Oh no. When I saw the
990
00:52:04.539 --> 00:52:06.380
new level, like I was like, they're not going to
991
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:09.320
be goofy. And then I was like, Oh, wait a second.
992
00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:12.869
They have big history together. And it was so, it
993
00:52:12.909 --> 00:52:16.820
was just so cool to see the respect paid by everyone. And,
994
00:52:18.500 --> 00:52:20.000
And there was a lot of people that could have
995
00:52:20.019 --> 00:52:23.590
been bitter about like, you know, this was supposed to
996
00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:28.130
be my day type of thing. Talking about Britt Baker
997
00:52:28.210 --> 00:52:32.329
coming back to Pittsburgh, talking about Wardlow getting his return
998
00:52:32.349 --> 00:52:36.949
out of nowhere. I mean, that's definitely a shadow cut
999
00:52:37.550 --> 00:52:38.610
over his return.
1000
00:52:38.710 --> 00:52:41.199
But I mean, it was just like everyone was game.
1001
00:52:41.260 --> 00:52:45.820
Everyone was cool. And it was just a really moving show.
1002
00:52:49.659 --> 00:52:53.769
Tamarina fear beat Britt Baker, you know, to escape Britt's
1003
00:52:53.789 --> 00:52:58.570
finisher and tap her out in Pittsburgh was the right
1004
00:52:58.670 --> 00:53:03.230
thing to do. And I wasn't expecting that, you know,
1005
00:53:03.250 --> 00:53:05.679
I didn't rule it out. I wasn't thinking that hard about, well,
1006
00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:07.320
what's the finish going to be, but you know, Shafir
1007
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:11.500
could have done the job. Um, and you know, cause
1008
00:53:11.539 --> 00:53:14.260
it was Britt in Pittsburgh and she was the focus,
1009
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:19.139
but man, um, That was, if that's, if Britt insisted
1010
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:21.519
on that, it was classy. If AW came up with
1011
00:53:21.539 --> 00:53:23.440
the idea and everyone went along with it, it was
1012
00:53:23.500 --> 00:53:27.590
classy because, you know, Shafir was, I don't know for
1013
00:53:27.610 --> 00:53:29.989
a fact, I shouldn't say, I'm thinking Shafir is closer
1014
00:53:30.030 --> 00:53:32.250
than Britt was to Pac. I think that's pretty safe
1015
00:53:32.309 --> 00:53:34.389
to say based on the information I have, but I don't,
1016
00:53:34.610 --> 00:53:36.869
I'm not downplaying with Britt, but it was just, Shafir
1017
00:53:36.909 --> 00:53:40.489
was on camera also, you know, in canon, so to speak,
1018
00:53:41.530 --> 00:53:44.289
tight with Pac. And so it was cool that there
1019
00:53:44.309 --> 00:53:47.659
was that moment also. And I bring that up because
1020
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:50.079
if it wasn't in Pittsburgh, you'd be like, well, no
1021
00:53:50.099 --> 00:53:52.619
big deal. Britt's not featured as a world title level
1022
00:53:52.659 --> 00:53:55.090
wrestler now. She's more of a manager and kind of
1023
00:53:55.110 --> 00:53:57.070
a special attraction. But given that it was in Pittsburgh,
1024
00:53:57.110 --> 00:53:58.949
it was more so.
1025
00:54:02.210 --> 00:54:04.809
The other two people holding titles.
1026
00:54:05.309 --> 00:54:07.230
So I really think.
1027
00:54:08.570 --> 00:54:12.690
Moxley showed that he is the true ace of wrestling.
1028
00:54:13.309 --> 00:54:14.670
Of AEW today.
1029
00:54:14.690 --> 00:54:17.510
I mean, if there was any question about it, like
1030
00:54:18.469 --> 00:54:21.190
you could tell he's the locker room leader and you
1031
00:54:21.230 --> 00:54:27.980
could tell that, you know, he's like kind of holding
1032
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:32.659
everyone together type of thing. Like, you know, I've read that,
1033
00:54:32.739 --> 00:54:37.320
you know, cause Marina Shafir was at the, in the,
1034
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:41.619
the butchers, uh, tribute show and she found out about
1035
00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:42.679
pox passing there.
1036
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.070
And she was like, what am I supposed to do?
1037
00:54:45.150 --> 00:54:49.369
And like contact mocks and was like, you got to
1038
00:54:49.429 --> 00:54:50.570
go out there and wrestle.
1039
00:54:50.610 --> 00:54:53.389
That's what Pac would have wanted. So it's just.
1040
00:54:53.309 --> 00:54:57.349
Like, they're really lucky to have someone like that there
1041
00:54:57.650 --> 00:55:01.630
because the whole locker room could be a mess. I
1042
00:55:01.710 --> 00:55:03.230
think about him honestly.
1043
00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:04.730
Yeah. Yeah.
1044
00:55:05.860 --> 00:55:08.179
Zach says, Wade, that was a brutalizer Pox finisher.
1045
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:09.039
Yeah.
1046
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:11.420
Got that on my report that she won with her.
1047
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:15.619
She escaped Britt's finisher and then applied the brutalizer. So
1048
00:55:15.699 --> 00:55:19.639
kind of like with Osprey, you know, they were doing
1049
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:22.690
tribute moves to Pox and it was a nice touch
1050
00:55:22.949 --> 00:55:27.230
also and added to the moment that she won with
1051
00:55:27.550 --> 00:55:32.070
a move that Pox won so many matches with.
1052
00:55:34.329 --> 00:55:35.280
Yeah. Anyway.
1053
00:55:36.769 --> 00:55:37.969
Rudog, anything else you want to say? I know you
1054
00:55:37.989 --> 00:55:39.610
can't hear Chris, so I'm not throwing to Chris until
1055
00:55:39.750 --> 00:55:41.309
we're done with it.
1056
00:55:41.889 --> 00:55:44.570
Sorry, Chris. I do want to hear what you have
1057
00:55:44.590 --> 00:55:46.670
to say, so I guess I'll have to hang up.
1058
00:55:46.829 --> 00:55:51.559
Log out and log in. That shouldn't be an issue.
1059
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:55.159
Well, I don't got much to say.
1060
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:59.820
I'm kind of exhausted from the show, quite frankly. But
1061
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.639
one thing I was like, is someone going to try
1062
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:07.480
to pull off the black arrow. And then when I
1063
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:12.260
saw it was Osprey versus Ricochet, I was like, Oh boy,
1064
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:12.929
here we go.
1065
00:56:13.030 --> 00:56:14.340
This is where it's going to happen.
1066
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:19.449
And I was like, I thought Ricochet probably could do
1067
00:56:19.489 --> 00:56:22.969
it the best, but, but they're not going to have
1068
00:56:23.030 --> 00:56:26.550
him beat Osprey. So I was like, all right, all right. Well,
1069
00:56:26.570 --> 00:56:29.269
and you could see him psyching himself up. Like I'm
1070
00:56:29.289 --> 00:56:31.469
going to do this. I'm going to do this. And
1071
00:56:31.510 --> 00:56:33.829
then he finally did it and it was great. And then,
1072
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.219
broke down like i don't know it was just it
1073
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:39.280
was special.
1074
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:45.559
Yep it was all right all right and one last
1075
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.460
thing i was going through all the poc matches i've
1076
00:56:48.519 --> 00:56:50.960
seen live in aw and there was a lot more
1077
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.239
than i expected like just just to see.
1078
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:56.519
All the i think the first time i saw him
1079
00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:02.380
in aw was in uh night in 19 and Chicago's
1080
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:04.559
all out against, uh, Kenny Omega.
1081
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:05.380
Which is great.
1082
00:57:06.219 --> 00:57:08.239
And, uh, some other highlights.
1083
00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:10.880
I got to see him at grand slam against orange
1084
00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:15.809
Cassidy at Arthur Ash stadium, which was great. And it's
1085
00:57:15.849 --> 00:57:19.789
so odd that they're like orange Cassidy might be his
1086
00:57:19.989 --> 00:57:23.369
like number one singles rival in AEW.
1087
00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:25.329
And I was like, maybe it is.
1088
00:57:26.590 --> 00:57:29.059
Number of matches. I think at least is. Yeah.
1089
00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:29.199
Yeah.
1090
00:57:29.789 --> 00:57:29.969
Yeah.
1091
00:57:30.869 --> 00:57:34.710
And then saw the deaf triangle versus the elite at
1092
00:57:34.730 --> 00:57:37.909
the presidential center at full year. And then the last
1093
00:57:37.969 --> 00:57:41.840
match I saw him was in 25 at full gear
1094
00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:44.000
were pack versus Darby Allen.
1095
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:47.400
So got to see some great matches of his.
1096
00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:51.519
And there's more to that. I, I, you know, those
1097
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.829
are just kind of the highlights, but yeah. it was just,
1098
00:57:55.690 --> 00:57:58.730
I just want to like give a W some props. Like,
1099
00:57:59.170 --> 00:58:02.469
cause you know, he was handed so handled so poorly
1100
00:58:02.570 --> 00:58:05.760
in WWE with that creep trying to.
1101
00:58:05.739 --> 00:58:08.320
Make him mighty mouse with a cape.
1102
00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:13.679
And like, finally he got to show what he could
1103
00:58:13.699 --> 00:58:16.699
do like in a W and I wish it would
1104
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:17.239
have been more.
1105
00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:19.630
I wish there would have been more singles matches.
1106
00:58:19.730 --> 00:58:23.179
Cause a lot of his matches were like multi-man, but,
1107
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:27.900
you know, he got to show what he could do.
1108
00:58:28.420 --> 00:58:31.760
So that's all I got to say. And thank you. Sorry.
1109
00:58:31.780 --> 00:58:33.519
I didn't get to talk to you, Chris, but.
1110
00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:36.429
You got to talk to him. He just can't talk
1111
00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:36.710
to you.
1112
00:58:37.389 --> 00:58:37.710
Okay.
1113
00:58:38.010 --> 00:58:38.469
Sorry.
1114
00:58:38.869 --> 00:58:39.090
Sorry.
1115
00:58:39.110 --> 00:58:42.030
I didn't get to hear you curse me out, Chris,
1116
00:58:42.590 --> 00:58:43.389
but anyways.
1117
00:58:44.389 --> 00:58:47.150
Well, there's a, there's a theory. Zach Barber says, Rude
1118
00:58:47.170 --> 00:58:48.760
Dog's feed won't pick up a British accent.
1119
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.840
I don't know about that, but.
1120
00:58:53.260 --> 00:58:55.719
All right, Rude Dog, we'll talk to you soon. Take care.
1121
00:58:55.739 --> 00:58:56.809
All right. Take care, everyone.
1122
00:58:57.929 --> 00:58:58.389
Thanks, bro.
1123
00:59:00.710 --> 00:59:02.949
Um, yeah, go ahead, Chris. You want to comment? I
1124
00:59:02.989 --> 00:59:04.590
think we're a dog had to say, no.
1125
00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:08.900
I agree with basically everything he said there. He's one
1126
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:11.119
of the very few people I never actually got to
1127
00:59:11.139 --> 00:59:14.139
see perform live. Most of my favorite wrestlers, I've actually
1128
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:17.519
seen them wrestle live. I never got to see him, unfortunately.
1129
00:59:18.820 --> 00:59:22.329
But yeah, everything he said just kind of echoed what
1130
00:59:22.369 --> 00:59:25.829
we were saying earlier. The thing about Moxley, I think,
1131
00:59:25.869 --> 00:59:29.789
is particularly poignant because there's been so many times where
1132
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:33.610
People have said, oh, Moxley's doing vacation. But he never
1133
00:59:33.650 --> 00:59:35.969
seems to take one because it's almost like the locker
1134
00:59:35.989 --> 00:59:37.860
room would just fall apart if he wasn't in it.
1135
00:59:39.070 --> 00:59:43.829
And he's got a strong character. And I imagine he's
1136
00:59:43.909 --> 00:59:46.070
one of those leaders that people listen to, not because
1137
00:59:46.090 --> 00:59:48.869
they're afraid of him, not because of anything other than
1138
00:59:49.130 --> 00:59:51.199
they just respect the living daylights out of him.
1139
00:59:51.929 --> 00:59:52.110
Yeah.
1140
00:59:53.429 --> 00:59:57.039
Did you, where did you think The storyline was going,
1141
00:59:57.059 --> 00:59:59.449
if anything in particular, with him and the Death Riders,
1142
00:59:59.489 --> 01:00:02.690
Pac and Moxley, and did the promo Saturday night point
1143
01:00:02.730 --> 01:00:05.690
toward anything? Because they lingered on Pac at the end,
1144
01:00:06.230 --> 01:00:08.969
and he was the last to leave. But I think
1145
01:00:09.010 --> 01:00:14.000
we'd be guessing to read into Pac's expression because he
1146
01:00:14.019 --> 01:00:16.480
didn't do anything over the top, but it's consistent with
1147
01:00:16.539 --> 01:00:18.980
a number of things, which is I second what Moxley
1148
01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.559
said or... I'm grumpy and I want to oust this guy.
1149
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:25.440
He's too, he's too okay with losing and we can't
1150
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.000
have that. And I was kind of thinking they were
1151
01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:29.860
going to head that direction with Pac, that it was
1152
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.119
going to be mucks. You're too gracious to Osprey that
1153
01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:34.239
there's no room for graciousness in the death riders, or
1154
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:36.260
I can't be part of the death riders anymore because
1155
01:00:36.579 --> 01:00:39.619
you guys are too okay losing. And I can't stand
1156
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:42.119
for that. Like I, I, it's still my guess where
1157
01:00:42.139 --> 01:00:43.760
things were heading. I felt that way for months and
1158
01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:45.010
months and there's been some mixed signals though.
1159
01:00:45.809 --> 01:00:48.230
Yeah, and I think the finish to the match with
1160
01:00:48.389 --> 01:00:51.719
Moxley sort of on his knees basically laughing because he
1161
01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:56.059
knew that he'd done his job and he'd turned Ospreay
1162
01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:59.059
into that weapon that he wanted him to be. That
1163
01:01:00.380 --> 01:01:03.500
could have been a key piece in the fracturing. I
1164
01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:06.360
think he would have seen Gabe Kidd and Neville go
1165
01:01:06.409 --> 01:01:11.329
off together. If they dragged anyone with them, I don't know.
1166
01:01:13.369 --> 01:01:16.650
those two on their own would be an interesting pairing.
1167
01:01:17.369 --> 01:01:19.949
Maybe they would have dragged the, the, the dogs with them.
1168
01:01:19.989 --> 01:01:22.610
And that would have been the faction that came out
1169
01:01:22.650 --> 01:01:25.130
of it. And then he would finally separated those two groups,
1170
01:01:25.780 --> 01:01:29.139
but it was definitely something going on there. And yeah,
1171
01:01:29.179 --> 01:01:30.940
the camera lingering on him because, because Gabe kid was
1172
01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:37.659
in Japan wrestled a few hours after that against Jula
1173
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:40.300
Maloney for the, for the global title. I just watched
1174
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:44.219
that match this morning. So, Yeah, there was probably something
1175
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:46.500
coming there, but I guess we'll never find out now.
1176
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:52.800
Well, we might find out. There might be some reporting
1177
01:01:53.099 --> 01:01:56.519
on where this was going to go, you know, but
1178
01:01:56.559 --> 01:01:57.610
we won't get to see it.
1179
01:01:57.619 --> 01:01:58.480
Yeah.
1180
01:01:58.539 --> 01:01:59.900
Yeah.
1181
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:04.719
Obviously, you know, just tiny, tiny fraction of importance compared to,
1182
01:02:05.550 --> 01:02:07.809
you know, his life. But yeah, it is it is
1183
01:02:07.929 --> 01:02:11.030
a undotted eye and uncrossed in terms of where, you know,
1184
01:02:11.050 --> 01:02:11.909
where this might have been headed.
1185
01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:14.449
Um, yeah.
1186
01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:18.719
Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
1187
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.519
me on the Wade Keller Post shows. Well, now you
1188
01:02:20.539 --> 01:02:22.820
can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
1189
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:25.920
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
1190
01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:28.480
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
1191
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:30.579
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
1192
01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:33.550
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
1193
01:02:33.619 --> 01:02:36.550
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
1194
01:02:36.710 --> 01:02:38.909
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
1195
01:02:38.929 --> 01:02:39.510
club in town.
1196
01:02:39.730 --> 01:02:41.510
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
1197
01:02:41.550 --> 01:02:45.869
life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
1198
01:02:46.150 --> 01:02:49.070
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
1199
01:02:49.090 --> 01:02:52.389
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
1200
01:02:52.550 --> 01:02:54.530
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
1201
01:02:54.570 --> 01:02:57.579
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
1202
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:05.199
for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Okay, let's throw
1203
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.219
up some more chats on the screen here just to
1204
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:11.400
let other people have some things that they want to
1205
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:16.699
say about this show. Yeah, Darrell Freeman, regular voice on
1206
01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:18.300
the show, says that was a well put together show.
1207
01:03:18.340 --> 01:03:22.019
You could feel the heart in the show. Very well put.
1208
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:28.179
David Bryant, a very tasteful tribute. Adam Kidd, the final
1209
01:03:28.219 --> 01:03:32.239
video package and the doctors, I'm sorry, the Death Riders,
1210
01:03:32.260 --> 01:03:35.260
the DR. The Death Riders standing around the chair was
1211
01:03:35.300 --> 01:03:38.110
a perfect ending. That's another thing. I don't think we've
1212
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:41.090
talked about that. The final scene of the chair that
1213
01:03:41.130 --> 01:03:43.610
the Death Riders walk by. for the main event that
1214
01:03:43.650 --> 01:03:47.070
was sitting in the empty chair that represented Pac and
1215
01:03:47.110 --> 01:03:49.809
with a towel over it. And then they played the
1216
01:03:49.849 --> 01:03:52.769
tribute video to Pac, which was just magnificent. And then
1217
01:03:52.809 --> 01:03:55.590
they come back and wrestlers in the dark, you know,
1218
01:03:55.610 --> 01:03:58.469
kind of partial darkness are standing around in a semi-circle
1219
01:03:58.489 --> 01:04:00.369
around the chair and the chair has a spotlight on it.
1220
01:04:00.449 --> 01:04:02.840
I mean, it just was one thing. I thought, oh,
1221
01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:04.739
it's just going to end after the main event and
1222
01:04:04.820 --> 01:04:06.940
everyone's going to in the ring do a tribute. And no,
1223
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:08.699
we have this video and I'm like, and then it
1224
01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:11.460
was just good. it was just good. And it was
1225
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:15.360
a lot, but it felt perfect. You know, let's just,
1226
01:04:15.420 --> 01:04:18.860
let's see more of him and more photos and the
1227
01:04:18.909 --> 01:04:21.650
music and him with his, with his voice, you know,
1228
01:04:21.690 --> 01:04:24.570
like we got to hear from him more than we
1229
01:04:24.610 --> 01:04:27.849
did the rest of the show. You know, don't you
1230
01:04:27.869 --> 01:04:30.070
dare forget about the bastard at one point, you know,
1231
01:04:30.110 --> 01:04:35.679
he said, so that was, and then I'm like, okay, well,
1232
01:04:35.699 --> 01:04:37.880
that's how it ends. And then, no, they then have,
1233
01:04:38.750 --> 01:04:40.230
the chair with the spotlight. I mean, it just breaks.
1234
01:04:40.389 --> 01:04:44.170
It just, it, they, they were just trying to break everybody,
1235
01:04:44.789 --> 01:04:47.440
you know, like emotionally, uh, Oh, we didn't get you yet.
1236
01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:49.480
We got more that we want to do as a
1237
01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:52.860
tribute to this great guy that we loved. Um, and yeah,
1238
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:56.659
just like I said, I mean, it feels weird to say,
1239
01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:58.079
but I do, I mean, and I don't want, maybe
1240
01:04:58.119 --> 01:04:59.739
I'm overdoing it. I just think this tribute show is
1241
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:01.119
a work of art. I mean, I think it was a,
1242
01:05:01.789 --> 01:05:04.190
a work of art with the tools that AW has
1243
01:05:04.230 --> 01:05:06.929
to work with, um, the setting, um, um, what they
1244
01:05:06.949 --> 01:05:09.289
could do today, earlier today and what they're able to
1245
01:05:09.309 --> 01:05:11.210
do in production and all the, all the footage that
1246
01:05:11.250 --> 01:05:11.710
they grabbed.
1247
01:05:11.750 --> 01:05:12.409
So, yeah.
1248
01:05:13.550 --> 01:05:17.269
Uh, my good says emotional and well done episode and
1249
01:05:17.309 --> 01:05:20.630
the best work by Tony Shivani in his AEW tenure.
1250
01:05:21.329 --> 01:05:21.769
Tony was great.
1251
01:05:21.789 --> 01:05:21.949
Yeah.
1252
01:05:22.170 --> 01:05:24.909
Tony was, was great. I mean, it's not easy to
1253
01:05:24.929 --> 01:05:27.269
stand in that ring in front of a wreath and
1254
01:05:27.289 --> 01:05:32.110
a photo and, and, you know, be the voice, the,
1255
01:05:32.369 --> 01:05:40.389
the veteran voice. Um, But his tenure and his history
1256
01:05:40.510 --> 01:05:45.670
carries some weight. And he's been in, you know, so
1257
01:05:45.690 --> 01:05:48.730
many situations on TV. And, you know, you refer to
1258
01:05:48.750 --> 01:05:51.190
him as Ben. He said that he was a wonderful
1259
01:05:51.230 --> 01:05:53.969
human being. And he said what they can learn from
1260
01:05:54.030 --> 01:06:00.460
him is to be kind, nice, friendly. The things Ben was.
1261
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:06.059
And that's the impression left on him. Tony speaking specifically. Everybody.
1262
01:06:06.710 --> 01:06:10.369
in AEW and he just, you know, what a, what
1263
01:06:10.389 --> 01:06:15.440
a pithy and precise and perfect, just like pox wrestling
1264
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:21.199
style summation of what overrides the, the, the on-air stuff
1265
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:23.900
and the politics and the star ratings and the flying
1266
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:27.360
moves it for Tony to, to, for everyone to kind
1267
01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:30.440
of know, and Tony delivered the message. it's the kind
1268
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:33.800
and nice and friendly thing. And who was it that said,
1269
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:36.300
was it Ricochet? One of them said like every time
1270
01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:40.159
when Pac spoke, like it was sort of everybody listened
1271
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:42.090
and he knew what needed to be said. He didn't
1272
01:06:42.130 --> 01:06:45.190
say a lot, but when he did talk, he said
1273
01:06:45.230 --> 01:06:47.610
what needed to be said. Like you got the impression
1274
01:06:47.630 --> 01:06:50.429
he wasn't withdrawn because nothing was going on upstairs. He
1275
01:06:50.469 --> 01:06:55.309
was withdrawn because he was a good listener. He was processing,
1276
01:06:55.389 --> 01:06:59.909
he was observing, he was respecting people. not just being
1277
01:07:00.929 --> 01:07:04.230
like offering unsolicited advice, but he'd pick a spots and
1278
01:07:04.690 --> 01:07:06.489
he's good at reading the room, you know? I mean,
1279
01:07:06.610 --> 01:07:07.750
so yeah, Tony did a great job.
1280
01:07:07.789 --> 01:07:10.110
I think it was Swerve that was talking about that.
1281
01:07:10.170 --> 01:07:12.309
It was like, he didn't say much, but when he did,
1282
01:07:12.329 --> 01:07:14.050
it was something you needed to hear.
1283
01:07:14.179 --> 01:07:16.860
Yeah. And it was, that was powerful for sure.
1284
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:22.880
Absolutely. All right. Mark Buschetti says an amazing emotional show,
1285
01:07:22.940 --> 01:07:24.579
not amazing wrestling, even though there was some good stuff
1286
01:07:24.619 --> 01:07:26.719
in it. It was amazing to see the wrestlers come
1287
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:27.800
together for POC.
1288
01:07:28.699 --> 01:07:29.320
Um, indeed.
1289
01:07:29.489 --> 01:07:33.219
Did you have anything to say about the arresting matches, Chris?
1290
01:07:33.500 --> 01:07:35.539
I mean, a bit of a blur.
1291
01:07:36.139 --> 01:07:38.260
They were designed to be feel good matches tonight, right?
1292
01:07:38.300 --> 01:07:40.760
Like the people who needed to go over, go up,
1293
01:07:40.820 --> 01:07:45.500
went over. There were, they, what I call best off
1294
01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:47.519
matches where you just throw a bunch of people in
1295
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:48.000
the ring.
1296
01:07:47.860 --> 01:07:49.340
And let them go through the moments.
1297
01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:49.780
Yeah.
1298
01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:53.519
The ricochet Osprey match. I was talking to my son
1299
01:07:53.559 --> 01:07:55.590
about it. I said, this feels like an evolution of
1300
01:07:55.619 --> 01:07:57.710
their match that went viral. It's like what they would
1301
01:07:57.769 --> 01:08:00.210
do with that match if they had the knowledge that
1302
01:08:00.250 --> 01:08:02.769
they have, you know, however many years it is later,
1303
01:08:03.150 --> 01:08:05.150
because they still did some of the acrobatic stuff.
1304
01:08:05.190 --> 01:08:07.409
They still flew around the ring, but there was more
1305
01:08:07.449 --> 01:08:09.690
psychology to it. It made more sense. It didn't look
1306
01:08:09.750 --> 01:08:10.570
as choreographed.
1307
01:08:11.130 --> 01:08:13.510
There was some, there was one particular spot in that
1308
01:08:13.550 --> 01:08:16.090
match that really stood out to me where Ospreay went
1309
01:08:16.189 --> 01:08:19.810
up to do a top rope runner and slipped, still
1310
01:08:19.890 --> 01:08:22.630
managed to pull it off convincingly, made it look good.
1311
01:08:23.109 --> 01:08:25.850
And Ricochet still landed on his feet. And I'll just say,
1312
01:08:25.949 --> 01:08:28.989
if that isn't a perfect example of how athletic these
1313
01:08:29.029 --> 01:08:31.640
two men are, there's very few people in the company
1314
01:08:31.649 --> 01:08:32.439
could have pulled that off.
1315
01:08:33.180 --> 01:08:35.000
Ironically, Pac would have been one of them.
1316
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:41.880
This was Pac's wrestling family was largely an AW. It's
1317
01:08:41.899 --> 01:08:45.060
a company he's been in for many years. Um, But
1318
01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:47.600
he is a former NXT champion, and I think NXT
1319
01:08:47.619 --> 01:08:50.470
should have done more last night than a graphic on
1320
01:08:50.489 --> 01:08:50.829
the screen.
1321
01:08:53.930 --> 01:08:55.270
I'm almost glad that they didn't.
1322
01:08:55.449 --> 01:08:59.430
I think you need to let AEW do their tribute
1323
01:08:59.449 --> 01:09:02.800
show first. because that's where he was working. That's where
1324
01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:05.060
most of his friends are. And then if you're going
1325
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:07.270
to do one, do it Friday or do it next Tuesday.
1326
01:09:07.789 --> 01:09:10.189
I think if you do a bigger tribute than that,
1327
01:09:10.829 --> 01:09:14.069
it almost takes away the thunder from AEW. Not that
1328
01:09:14.090 --> 01:09:16.630
you really want thunder, but like it's their place to
1329
01:09:16.689 --> 01:09:20.649
do it. Corey Graves did read out a statement tonight
1330
01:09:20.930 --> 01:09:26.109
on Worlds Collide after Dynamite had started, which was a
1331
01:09:26.170 --> 01:09:29.449
bit more than they've done up until that point on
1332
01:09:29.550 --> 01:09:32.449
the WWE. So I would like to think that they just,
1333
01:09:32.470 --> 01:09:34.989
they wanted to let AEW be the ones that did
1334
01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:37.409
the big goodbye. And maybe they'll do a little bit
1335
01:09:37.449 --> 01:09:41.409
more either on Friday or on NXT on Tuesday. I,
1336
01:09:41.770 --> 01:09:43.460
I just think being a guy who won the NXT
1337
01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:46.640
title a little more, I'm not saying compete with AW,
1338
01:09:46.659 --> 01:09:47.479
don't try to steal the thunder.
1339
01:09:47.500 --> 01:09:50.020
You couldn't do it, but I don't know. I mean, it's, I,
1340
01:09:50.260 --> 01:09:51.760
I'm not, I'm not like me. I'm just, it's what
1341
01:09:51.779 --> 01:09:53.539
I wish and think they ought to have done. I'm
1342
01:09:53.579 --> 01:09:54.979
not being critical of what they did. Cause I think
1343
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.819
there's like, you know, there's a, there's room to, to, to,
1344
01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:01.479
to justify it. But my vote would have been, let's
1345
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:05.699
show more footage. Let's acknowledge, you know, 40 minutes into
1346
01:10:05.720 --> 01:10:07.539
the show or an hour, 10 minutes of the show. Hey,
1347
01:10:07.779 --> 01:10:12.010
the wrestling community lost, um, you know, a wrestler who was,
1348
01:10:12.210 --> 01:10:15.229
who was beloved and traveled the world. And, um, he
1349
01:10:15.270 --> 01:10:17.670
was on top here and, um, you know, here's, here's
1350
01:10:17.689 --> 01:10:19.250
a few highlights of what he did. I don't know,
1351
01:10:19.409 --> 01:10:21.949
just something like that. I think he, I think it
1352
01:10:21.979 --> 01:10:23.880
would have been my vote anyway.
1353
01:10:24.020 --> 01:10:24.180
Yeah.
1354
01:10:24.699 --> 01:10:25.140
Uh, yeah.
1355
01:10:25.420 --> 01:10:27.539
Uh, Derek Mitchell, I've been watching wrestling since 1982. And
1356
01:10:27.560 --> 01:10:29.319
when someone in the wrestling business dies, it takes a
1357
01:10:29.340 --> 01:10:31.699
piece of you. But the last few years with Brody, uh,
1358
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.760
Brody Lee, Bray Wyatt, the butcher in Alpac, it's too much.
1359
01:10:34.779 --> 01:10:38.560
I think the first time I saw, uh, I, the
1360
01:10:38.579 --> 01:10:42.039
first wrestler I knew who died, who was acknowledged in
1361
01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:44.640
some form or fashion who I'd heard of. And it
1362
01:10:44.680 --> 01:10:47.479
wasn't because they were of advanced age and long past retirement.
1363
01:10:47.500 --> 01:10:50.060
It was David Von Erich. That was just shocking to
1364
01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:52.689
read that in a newsstand wrestling magazine. It was probably
1365
01:10:52.699 --> 01:10:55.170
six weeks after his death when I heard about it. Um,
1366
01:10:55.869 --> 01:10:59.729
just given the nature of wrestling media and technology then, but, um,
1367
01:11:00.310 --> 01:11:04.729
but the first time on TV, um, I'm trying to
1368
01:11:04.750 --> 01:11:06.050
think of the order of the Von Erich deaths, which
1369
01:11:06.090 --> 01:11:09.779
is really sad. Um, but I think it would have
1370
01:11:09.819 --> 01:11:12.380
been Gino Hernandez. I don't think there was another announcement
1371
01:11:12.420 --> 01:11:14.880
of on Eric death, unless I, I'm the reason I'm pausing.
1372
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:17.869
I'm like, did I see a tribute to David Von
1373
01:11:17.909 --> 01:11:19.289
Eric in real time? Or did I end up seeing
1374
01:11:19.329 --> 01:11:21.670
that on like VHS later? But I think the first
1375
01:11:21.710 --> 01:11:24.329
time I found out about a wrestler dying on TV,
1376
01:11:24.489 --> 01:11:27.050
the first time I found out on TV was Gino Hernandez.
1377
01:11:27.130 --> 01:11:32.060
And it was just shocking. Yeah. So I think just
1378
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:36.000
in it, you know, the, the, it was, you know,
1379
01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:38.060
Bill Mercer standing there just going, you know, sitting there
1380
01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:42.119
just going, we've lost, uh, someone, you know, I don't
1381
01:11:42.140 --> 01:11:43.350
know what his adjectives were. I don't want to put
1382
01:11:43.390 --> 01:11:45.869
words in, but the world-class announcer, it's just, it's part
1383
01:11:45.909 --> 01:11:47.970
of wrestling. You know, I mean, it's just something, you know, you,
1384
01:11:48.390 --> 01:11:50.810
there's the 10 bell salute, there's standing on the stage,
1385
01:11:50.869 --> 01:11:54.210
there's the graphic on the screen. Um, there's wrestlers, you know,
1386
01:11:54.289 --> 01:11:57.250
crying when they are current colleagues and, and we're close
1387
01:11:57.289 --> 01:12:00.550
to them. Um, but AEW said, you know, and ECW,
1388
01:12:00.569 --> 01:12:05.170
it just happened, you know, you know, a lot too. Um,
1389
01:12:05.890 --> 01:12:07.529
We went through so many of them. I mean, I got,
1390
01:12:08.010 --> 01:12:10.760
we all, those of us in, those of us in the,
1391
01:12:11.109 --> 01:12:14.380
you know, wrestling journalism realm, it just, it, you didn't
1392
01:12:14.420 --> 01:12:16.420
get numb to it, but you were, there was a
1393
01:12:16.420 --> 01:12:20.039
stretch of time where you're just like, I almost expect,
1394
01:12:20.060 --> 01:12:21.659
you know, you just kind of.
1395
01:12:21.819 --> 01:12:22.640
Yeah.
1396
01:12:23.100 --> 01:12:23.500
Yeah.
1397
01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:24.939
I will.
1398
01:12:25.100 --> 01:12:31.430
I'll never forget like test and, uh, Garrison Cade and, um,
1399
01:12:31.729 --> 01:12:35.119
Oh God, who else died around that time? There was
1400
01:12:35.579 --> 01:12:38.010
a stretch of time where it seemed like every month
1401
01:12:38.270 --> 01:12:41.409
another guy in their 30s or 40s was dying because
1402
01:12:41.430 --> 01:12:42.510
of what they'd done to their.
1403
01:12:42.409 --> 01:12:44.329
Bodies on the road.
1404
01:12:45.489 --> 01:12:48.390
And then I remember waking up one morning, and of
1405
01:12:48.409 --> 01:12:51.630
course being in Newfoundland, and an hour and a half
1406
01:12:51.689 --> 01:12:55.489
ahead of Eastern time, I was always up before anyone
1407
01:12:55.529 --> 01:12:57.479
else on the site that I was writing for at
1408
01:12:57.520 --> 01:12:59.439
the time, and I found out about Misawa's death.
1409
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:03.399
Which was practically in the ring.
1410
01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:04.640
Yeah.
1411
01:13:04.659 --> 01:13:09.390
And trying to get that news posted and just, he
1412
01:13:09.430 --> 01:13:12.670
was another one of different reason, but it was all
1413
01:13:12.729 --> 01:13:13.609
in that time stretch.
1414
01:13:14.829 --> 01:13:18.310
Sean O'Hare was another one that died around that time. Yeah.
1415
01:13:19.050 --> 01:13:20.930
Was it Crash Holly in there as well?
1416
01:13:20.949 --> 01:13:26.329
I'm pretty sure he, it's, it just seemed like every
1417
01:13:26.369 --> 01:13:28.449
time he turned around, somebody else was gone too soon.
1418
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:35.500
And it's hard, man. You know, when you, You watch.
1419
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:39.220
These people, you get engaged with their personality, you buy
1420
01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:42.439
into it, you're invested in their careers in a lot
1421
01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:45.220
of cases, and then they're.
1422
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:49.520
Not there anymore. And it's been a long time since
1423
01:13:49.579 --> 01:13:50.319
we've had that.
1424
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:52.720
It seems like a long time anyway, since we've had
1425
01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:56.659
that happen with an active wrestler dying. Yes, we lost
1426
01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:01.270
superstar Billy Graham the other day, but it's not like
1427
01:14:01.279 --> 01:14:03.159
he was young. It would be hard to say he.
1428
01:14:03.090 --> 01:14:03.649
Went too soon.
1429
01:14:04.649 --> 01:14:05.470
Superstar Bill Dundee.
1430
01:14:06.069 --> 01:14:09.210
Bill Dundee, yeah. Get those two crossed all the time.
1431
01:14:11.109 --> 01:14:13.250
When somebody who is in advanced age, like you said,
1432
01:14:13.270 --> 01:14:16.590
when they die, it's sad, but it feels different. It
1433
01:14:16.609 --> 01:14:20.260
feels like, well, okay, you had a good innings, as
1434
01:14:20.300 --> 01:14:22.939
we say in England. But when somebody who literally was
1435
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:26.619
on TV 24 hours before, it's just, man, how do
1436
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:27.399
you reconcile that?
1437
01:14:28.300 --> 01:14:30.560
How do you reconcile being at work with someone 24
1438
01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:32.239
hours before? I know.
1439
01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:36.590
I mean, the recency of it, he was, you know,
1440
01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:38.930
I mean, people say it, it's natural. Like, he was
1441
01:14:38.949 --> 01:14:41.229
just here. Like, when you haven't been around somebody for
1442
01:14:41.250 --> 01:14:43.529
a long time, it's just weird the way our minds
1443
01:14:43.569 --> 01:14:45.989
and our emotions work. But it's like, oh, it didn't
1444
01:14:46.010 --> 01:14:48.350
feel as, you know, as much a part of your
1445
01:14:48.390 --> 01:14:50.560
existence if it had been a long time or they
1446
01:14:50.569 --> 01:14:52.819
just grew old. Well, you weren't thinking about them or
1447
01:14:52.939 --> 01:14:56.899
interacting with them. One of the first young wrestler deaths,
1448
01:14:57.020 --> 01:14:58.800
other than Gino Hernandez, was a wrestler I saw in
1449
01:14:58.819 --> 01:15:00.619
the indie scene in the late 1980s who worked a
1450
01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:02.739
lot of the shows that Sean Waltman did. and Jerry
1451
01:15:02.779 --> 01:15:06.010
Lynn worked and it was Larry, the butcher Cameron. Um,
1452
01:15:06.050 --> 01:15:07.989
I saw him at Ropers and Fridley, George's and Fridley,
1453
01:15:08.010 --> 01:15:09.930
a nightclub there. He'd always hit his head on the
1454
01:15:09.970 --> 01:15:12.289
ceiling cause the low ceiling and he'd stand on the
1455
01:15:12.329 --> 01:15:16.470
ropes and I hit my head. Um, and AWA hired
1456
01:15:16.510 --> 01:15:18.310
him and he did some, some work for them. And
1457
01:15:18.329 --> 01:15:21.840
he died in a match in, in, uh, in Bremen, Germany, um,
1458
01:15:22.380 --> 01:15:24.920
back in 1993. And he was 41 years old out
1459
01:15:24.939 --> 01:15:26.579
of a massive heart attack. And he was a heavy
1460
01:15:26.619 --> 01:15:29.600
steroid user. Um, so he was, you know, he doesn't
1461
01:15:29.619 --> 01:15:30.800
get talked about a lot as one of the first
1462
01:15:30.819 --> 01:15:35.949
steroid deaths, but, um, He was, you know, by, you know,
1463
01:15:37.229 --> 01:15:39.510
as much as we can ever know, you know, I mean,
1464
01:15:39.529 --> 01:15:44.079
because it isn't, you know, a gunshot wound to the heart.
1465
01:15:44.119 --> 01:15:45.720
That's how you die when you have a heart attack
1466
01:15:45.739 --> 01:15:47.539
at age 41 and you're a heavy steroid user. And
1467
01:15:47.560 --> 01:15:50.720
there's generally we connect those dots and we feel better. um,
1468
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:52.960
safe saying that contributed, even if there's some genetic conditions
1469
01:15:52.979 --> 01:15:56.590
or other factors that play into it. Um, but that was,
1470
01:15:56.850 --> 01:15:58.649
that was another time. And it wasn't, you know, there
1471
01:15:58.670 --> 01:16:00.609
wasn't a tribute show to him, but it was somebody
1472
01:16:00.630 --> 01:16:03.010
who I knew, like I shot photos of ringside. I
1473
01:16:03.050 --> 01:16:05.270
got to know him in my very early years as
1474
01:16:05.310 --> 01:16:08.180
a teenager shooting ringside photos. And it was just like,
1475
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:10.550
that can happen. You know, like Gina, her net is,
1476
01:16:10.579 --> 01:16:13.319
I wasn't around, I didn't meet him, you know, but Larry,
1477
01:16:13.340 --> 01:16:17.649
and he was the first wrestler I knew who died. Um,
1478
01:16:18.439 --> 01:16:22.960
And way too young and surprised. In fact, I went
1479
01:16:23.020 --> 01:16:28.229
to a Windy City Wrestling Show because he worked for
1480
01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:30.189
Paul Heyman when Paul Heyman was booking Windy City Wrestling
1481
01:16:30.229 --> 01:16:35.010
in Chicago. And I drove to Chicago. And Larry Cameron
1482
01:16:35.170 --> 01:16:38.670
was with me. He was one of the drivers. And
1483
01:16:38.729 --> 01:16:40.970
Eddie Sharkey was another one in the car. And a
1484
01:16:40.970 --> 01:16:42.609
friend of mine, Brad, was in the car. And we
1485
01:16:42.649 --> 01:16:45.840
drove there. And I remember driving down Halstead Street. And
1486
01:16:46.020 --> 01:16:48.739
Larry Cameron was driving. and the windows were down and
1487
01:16:48.779 --> 01:16:50.680
I would have been scared to drive down Halstead street,
1488
01:16:51.140 --> 01:16:54.239
never been to Chicago before, but Larry had his arm
1489
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:57.550
out the window. His bicep was out the window. And
1490
01:16:57.590 --> 01:17:00.510
I was like, I'm feeling pretty safe with this guy. Well,
1491
01:17:00.529 --> 01:17:03.710
you know, I didn't feel bad at stoplights and stop signs. Um,
1492
01:17:04.329 --> 01:17:07.590
so yeah, as I, I hadn't forgotten that, but I
1493
01:17:07.609 --> 01:17:09.050
probably should have led with that, that like, I not
1494
01:17:09.090 --> 01:17:10.909
only knew him well enough, I took a seven hour
1495
01:17:10.949 --> 01:17:12.930
car ride trip with him to an indie show that,
1496
01:17:12.970 --> 01:17:16.279
that he was working. Book by Paul Heyman. And so, yeah,
1497
01:17:16.310 --> 01:17:18.770
when I just, you know, as we're thinking about, you know,
1498
01:17:18.869 --> 01:17:22.989
a wrestler that you knew, like 4L, Alan Kunan, right?
1499
01:17:23.090 --> 01:17:26.829
He knew Pac. These wrestlers knew him way better than
1500
01:17:26.869 --> 01:17:29.109
I knew Larry, way better than Alan knows Pac, but
1501
01:17:29.550 --> 01:17:34.159
meeting them and knowing them and it hits more too. And,
1502
01:17:34.180 --> 01:17:36.859
you know, it wasn't that long after the Windy City
1503
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:42.899
show that Larry died. So, yeah, anyway, some random thoughts there.
1504
01:17:44.909 --> 01:17:47.670
Before pushing play on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows,
1505
01:17:47.729 --> 01:17:51.510
check out PWTorch.com and our TV review section and skim
1506
01:17:51.550 --> 01:17:53.590
through a full rundown of the TV show. If you
1507
01:17:53.630 --> 01:17:55.529
didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview
1508
01:17:55.890 --> 01:17:59.630
of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis
1509
01:17:59.810 --> 01:18:03.050
of the key happenings on the show. That's PWTorch.com, your
1510
01:18:03.090 --> 01:18:06.609
home for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
1511
01:18:06.630 --> 01:18:08.850
with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT
1512
01:18:08.869 --> 01:18:11.649
and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports
1513
01:18:11.689 --> 01:18:13.649
on Saturday nights, and of course our live pay-per-view and
1514
01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:18.039
PLE coverage on weekends. All waiting for you at PWTorch.com.
1515
01:18:20.510 --> 01:18:21.670
I'm going to throw up a few other comments. We've
1516
01:18:21.689 --> 01:18:26.050
got Sean Plichta on hold also. Mark Paschetti says, Tonight's
1517
01:18:26.069 --> 01:18:28.250
show brought me back to when Owen died. This show
1518
01:18:28.270 --> 01:18:30.449
must have been so cathartic for everyone. I'm sure it was.
1519
01:18:30.710 --> 01:18:31.609
I hope so.
1520
01:18:32.289 --> 01:18:34.390
They had enough time to do the show they did,
1521
01:18:34.810 --> 01:18:37.529
but not so much time that they had to grieve
1522
01:18:38.689 --> 01:18:43.279
without each other. You know, like, they had... they have
1523
01:18:43.319 --> 01:18:46.859
a few days to gather, talk, chat, text, be with
1524
01:18:46.890 --> 01:18:49.869
their loved ones, their own family, whatever. But to know Wednesday,
1525
01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:52.020
we get to come together and just cry and share
1526
01:18:52.060 --> 01:18:56.560
memories and tell funny stories and like cathartic is certainly
1527
01:18:57.439 --> 01:19:00.079
a good word for that. I thought, you know, Saturday
1528
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:02.899
with what happened with Stephen Borden, that's what brought back
1529
01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:06.300
on heart to me, the shot of the announcers. We're
1530
01:19:06.319 --> 01:19:08.869
not looking back at the ring, but you see the announcers.
1531
01:19:09.449 --> 01:19:11.550
Tony Schiavone was in the role of Jerry Lawler. What's
1532
01:19:11.590 --> 01:19:13.569
going on? This does not look good.
1533
01:19:14.569 --> 01:19:15.109
Oh man.
1534
01:19:15.189 --> 01:19:18.449
Like you're, you're vicariously trying to figure out what happened
1535
01:19:18.470 --> 01:19:22.340
to Borden through Tony Schiavone's body language and facial expressions
1536
01:19:22.399 --> 01:19:24.380
while he's on camera, while Excalibur and Taz are trying
1537
01:19:24.399 --> 01:19:27.739
to fill time. And it took me back to Owen.
1538
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.439
And I remember that pay-per-view get together. And I remember
1539
01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:32.310
people who were over and some were going, oh, I
1540
01:19:32.329 --> 01:19:35.090
think it's a storyline. I'm like, it is not a storyline.
1541
01:19:35.170 --> 01:19:37.430
This is like, but, you know, your inclination as a
1542
01:19:37.449 --> 01:19:40.069
cynical wrestling fan, we're in it cynical because, you know,
1543
01:19:40.470 --> 01:19:41.970
Fritz Von Erich faked a heart attack to try to
1544
01:19:42.010 --> 01:19:43.689
sell tickets in world class in the mid 80s when
1545
01:19:43.750 --> 01:19:46.270
ticket sales are going down and preyed on fans thinking
1546
01:19:46.310 --> 01:19:50.220
something legit happened. So, you know, longtime fans believe that's possible.
1547
01:19:51.020 --> 01:19:54.779
um but nevertheless like yeah that saturday during all out
1548
01:19:54.819 --> 01:19:57.000
it brought it brought those feelings up so then 24
1549
01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.619
hours later start getting texts about pocket just like god
1550
01:20:00.170 --> 01:20:04.710
i already kind of went through being kind of those
1551
01:20:04.750 --> 01:20:07.810
emotions being triggered bring it going back to that time
1552
01:20:08.590 --> 01:20:11.569
watching the announcers and hoping that it isn't what you
1553
01:20:11.609 --> 01:20:14.319
feared um so.
1554
01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:20.119
Anyway Yeah, the only thing missing was the Owen moment
1555
01:20:20.229 --> 01:20:22.670
is forever etched in my memory with Jim Ross saying,
1556
01:20:22.710 --> 01:20:25.930
this is not a part of tonight's entertainment, which really
1557
01:20:25.989 --> 01:20:28.430
drove home that it was real. And I think that
1558
01:20:28.449 --> 01:20:30.590
was the only thing missing from the Stephen Borden moment
1559
01:20:30.630 --> 01:20:33.189
that would have really made the parallel.
1560
01:20:35.270 --> 01:20:37.739
And by the way, shame on WWE and any other promoter,
1561
01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:40.300
whoever recreated that scene in order to create false drama
1562
01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:42.819
that made us think something was really, something bad is
1563
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:44.239
really happening. And it's one of the reasons I was
1564
01:20:44.279 --> 01:20:46.239
never a fan of Danielson playing that up in his
1565
01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:48.579
matches in, in a W in recent years where he
1566
01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:50.720
had legit issues and he was, you know, playing it
1567
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:54.439
up to have drama. Um, I just nights like this
1568
01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:57.039
or nights like Saturday night. And what was, what happened
1569
01:20:57.060 --> 01:21:00.520
with Owen? Like there's they're, you should never cash that
1570
01:21:00.600 --> 01:21:02.699
in to try to, um, play with fans emotions because
1571
01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:04.500
fans care too much about the wrestlers. I mean, they
1572
01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:11.119
do this, this industry brings people together. And historically it
1573
01:21:11.319 --> 01:21:16.000
often is people who are looking for something kind of
1574
01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:20.800
counterculture that where they don't feel they fit in necessarily
1575
01:21:20.819 --> 01:21:24.899
with other parts of pop culture. I was in an LGBTQ, um, uh,
1576
01:21:26.470 --> 01:21:28.949
documentary on pro wrestling and talked about that. I can't
1577
01:21:28.970 --> 01:21:30.510
remember if it made the documentary or not. I don't
1578
01:21:30.529 --> 01:21:31.750
think it did, but I thought it was a really
1579
01:21:31.770 --> 01:21:34.369
good quote. And everybody was watching. It was filmed at
1580
01:21:34.550 --> 01:21:38.680
my interview. There was filmed at Starcast during all out weekend. And,
1581
01:21:39.539 --> 01:21:41.560
and I thought people were acting like, yes, that you,
1582
01:21:41.619 --> 01:21:42.720
you said it really well. And I don't think I
1583
01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:45.359
made the documentary, but pro wrestling brings together people who
1584
01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:48.149
feel a little bit like outsiders or outcasts or they're
1585
01:21:48.159 --> 01:21:51.949
not included. And, and it is, it's, it is different than,
1586
01:21:53.529 --> 01:21:56.029
I think there's other things that are, you know, the
1587
01:21:56.090 --> 01:22:00.149
punk rock culture and comic book culture and whatever. There's realms,
1588
01:22:00.210 --> 01:22:02.210
but some things are just there for the cool kids,
1589
01:22:02.250 --> 01:22:05.380
you know, NFL fans. It's just so mainstream. And MMA,
1590
01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:13.119
it's for, you know, whatever that is now. So because
1591
01:22:13.380 --> 01:22:17.590
of that, I think wrestlers and wrestling promoters have a
1592
01:22:17.630 --> 01:22:21.050
responsibility to not exploit fans and put them in a
1593
01:22:21.090 --> 01:22:24.949
position of being suckers and marks by preying on real
1594
01:22:24.989 --> 01:22:28.310
emotions that they, because they feel, I think, a greater
1595
01:22:28.350 --> 01:22:30.289
connection and a bond with wrestlers than I think a
1596
01:22:30.350 --> 01:22:32.350
lot of fans or in the business itself. I think
1597
01:22:32.369 --> 01:22:35.970
they feel a sense of community and ownership more because
1598
01:22:35.989 --> 01:22:39.210
wrestling fans and wrestling as a form of entertainment is
1599
01:22:39.229 --> 01:22:41.550
looked down upon and you're sneered at or you're judged.
1600
01:22:42.810 --> 01:22:46.109
So I'm always sensitive. I think it's cheap to do that.
1601
01:22:46.340 --> 01:22:49.020
And so as I'm talking about Owen, I don't want
1602
01:22:49.140 --> 01:22:51.220
anyone to recreate what happened to Stephen Borden to try
1603
01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:55.090
to prey on our feelings. Um, also like just that
1604
01:22:55.109 --> 01:22:56.510
should be off, off the table.
1605
01:22:57.689 --> 01:23:00.550
I think you've hit an important nail on the head there.
1606
01:23:00.569 --> 01:23:04.430
And I think it actually relates to pack as well. Uh,
1607
01:23:04.729 --> 01:23:06.590
people often look at me and go, man, you do
1608
01:23:06.649 --> 01:23:08.369
so many things. You have so many side projects and
1609
01:23:08.390 --> 01:23:10.289
they don't have anything to do with each other. And
1610
01:23:10.329 --> 01:23:13.810
they're very wrong because they are all the same. They
1611
01:23:13.850 --> 01:23:16.609
all have that community of people who are looking for
1612
01:23:16.649 --> 01:23:19.109
somewhere they belong because they don't feel like they belong
1613
01:23:19.170 --> 01:23:24.159
in the mainstream communities for wrestling or less. stand-up comedy,
1614
01:23:24.949 --> 01:23:29.729
it's all the same. We're looking, even Magic the Gathering,
1615
01:23:29.930 --> 01:23:32.069
we're looking for a place where we can be different
1616
01:23:32.189 --> 01:23:36.800
and be ourselves and belong with people who share those interests. Now,
1617
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:38.939
the fact that I haven't found another person who overlaps
1618
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:42.699
all of them is not a good thing. But you
1619
01:23:42.739 --> 01:23:47.039
have to remember that humans are inherently a social species
1620
01:23:47.380 --> 01:23:51.470
and we seek out our own. And if we find
1621
01:23:51.529 --> 01:23:55.649
that the groups that we're supposed to belong to don't
1622
01:23:55.750 --> 01:23:58.949
want us, that we don't belong there, then we need
1623
01:23:58.989 --> 01:24:02.670
a different group. And when you find that, you latch
1624
01:24:02.810 --> 01:24:06.680
on and you become so close to those people. And
1625
01:24:06.699 --> 01:24:11.319
the parasocial bonds are deeper than a sports person because
1626
01:24:11.640 --> 01:24:15.460
everybody can watch sports. Not everybody can get into wrestling.
1627
01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:18.369
Not everybody can get into drag or burlesque or any
1628
01:24:18.409 --> 01:24:22.729
of that. But when you look into the bombs that
1629
01:24:22.800 --> 01:24:25.720
are formed and why they form, you understand how important
1630
01:24:25.859 --> 01:24:26.619
this stuff can.
1631
01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:27.119
Be to people.
1632
01:24:28.279 --> 01:24:30.899
And, you know, I was surprised at how hard the
1633
01:24:30.979 --> 01:24:33.880
butcher's death hit me because he wasn't exactly somebody I
1634
01:24:33.939 --> 01:24:36.539
paid a lot of attention to when he wrestled. But
1635
01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:38.340
the words that were said about him and how close
1636
01:24:38.359 --> 01:24:40.560
he was to my age and how he died. And
1637
01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:43.810
I'm just sitting there thinking, geez. But now with Park, who,
1638
01:24:44.449 --> 01:24:46.609
you know, is even younger and younger.
1639
01:24:47.529 --> 01:24:48.949
Is somebody I paid attention to.
1640
01:24:48.970 --> 01:24:52.449
It does come at you from an angle that most
1641
01:24:52.489 --> 01:24:55.770
people wouldn't expect unless they've had cause to feel it themselves.
1642
01:24:57.399 --> 01:25:01.739
Yeah. The application process to get into Magic the Gathering
1643
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:05.840
is really difficult, Chris. I have.
1644
01:25:08.180 --> 01:25:09.140
A problem.
1645
01:25:09.939 --> 01:25:14.840
That whole bookshelf behind me is full. And I sold
1646
01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:16.560
my collection once to buy this house.
1647
01:25:17.130 --> 01:25:20.630
That's that's how wow yeah my down payment on this
1648
01:25:20.670 --> 01:25:24.010
house came uh in large part from selling my collection
1649
01:25:24.090 --> 01:25:25.350
and then i got back into the game a few
1650
01:25:25.369 --> 01:25:28.949
years later like i was into this thing yeah yeah
1651
01:25:28.979 --> 01:25:29.869
yeah i.
1652
01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:32.880
Know the board game community kelly wells knows about that
1653
01:25:32.979 --> 01:25:36.500
i've got a independent game shop one location not a
1654
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:38.479
chain uh just cross free from my house and they're
1655
01:25:39.380 --> 01:25:40.800
you know, so many nights of the week, it's just
1656
01:25:40.819 --> 01:25:43.960
a bunch of people sitting at tables playing games. I
1657
01:25:43.979 --> 01:25:46.619
don't even know the names of, but it is, it is,
1658
01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:50.779
that is their, that's their people. And it is a
1659
01:25:51.020 --> 01:25:53.130
unmistakable group of people. If all you saw were the
1660
01:25:53.149 --> 01:25:54.989
people and you didn't know, you didn't see the table
1661
01:25:55.029 --> 01:25:57.850
or the games, you'd go, Oh, those people are playing
1662
01:25:58.229 --> 01:26:01.630
games together. Like you just know. And you know, there,
1663
01:26:01.670 --> 01:26:04.430
there's a, there, they found their people and it doesn't
1664
01:26:04.449 --> 01:26:05.729
mean they all look the same. You just, you can
1665
01:26:05.770 --> 01:26:08.689
just see they are in their, They're in the world
1666
01:26:08.710 --> 01:26:13.130
where they belong. And in that setting, it's fun to see.
1667
01:26:13.189 --> 01:26:15.069
I mean, it's just whatever, you know, there's people who
1668
01:26:15.130 --> 01:26:18.300
are going to rock shows. There's people who are doing art.
1669
01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:21.260
Some people are introverts and they're finding their own way
1670
01:26:21.640 --> 01:26:25.800
to exist and connect with people, but not necessarily in
1671
01:26:25.819 --> 01:26:28.939
big groups all the time, socializing. Everybody has their own way.
1672
01:26:28.979 --> 01:26:33.149
But pro wrestling is a communal experience. in, in, in
1673
01:26:33.170 --> 01:26:33.640
good ways.
1674
01:26:34.180 --> 01:26:36.060
Um, passion, passion is passion, right?
1675
01:26:36.319 --> 01:26:36.539
Yeah.
1676
01:26:37.039 --> 01:26:37.199
Yeah.
1677
01:26:38.060 --> 01:26:40.899
Uh, Ducky D in the chat says peace chat, tough watch,
1678
01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:43.859
but that was very cathartic in its execution. Long live Pac,
1679
01:26:43.899 --> 01:26:49.239
the man and the wrestler. Um, and, uh, so I
1680
01:26:49.260 --> 01:26:54.369
had to read Derek's comment there. Oh, uh, uh, Dan Carroll, uh,
1681
01:26:54.409 --> 01:26:56.810
welcome to the chat says very well done. The closing
1682
01:26:56.850 --> 01:27:04.380
video was eight stars. Yes. I, I, I agree with that.
1683
01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:06.340
There you.
1684
01:27:08.770 --> 01:27:08.930
Go.
1685
01:27:11.930 --> 01:27:13.409
Ducky D says, I also loved how the promos and
1686
01:27:13.510 --> 01:27:16.270
videos educated us on the life Pac lived and the
1687
01:27:16.329 --> 01:27:21.189
impact he made. I learned so much tonight. Yep, indeed.
1688
01:27:22.970 --> 01:27:29.880
And let's see. Bob says, OC to WI says in life,
1689
01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:33.020
you have friends and family and your wrestling family. Perfect timing.
1690
01:27:33.500 --> 01:27:36.319
I am thankful for Mr. Neville Park and Mr.
1691
01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:36.579
Ben.
1692
01:27:36.619 --> 01:27:40.229
Thank you for everything. My condolences to his family and friends.
1693
01:27:40.949 --> 01:27:41.270
Indeed.
1694
01:27:43.350 --> 01:27:46.430
I'm David Bryant says Mox's promo is a great example
1695
01:27:46.449 --> 01:27:49.229
of why people should put their all into every second
1696
01:27:49.250 --> 01:27:51.189
they spend in front of a microphone. You never know
1697
01:27:51.229 --> 01:27:52.220
who will hear it and how.
1698
01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:54.159
Yeah, definitely.
1699
01:27:54.180 --> 01:27:54.500
Definitely.
1700
01:27:55.880 --> 01:27:55.960
Yeah.
1701
01:27:55.979 --> 01:27:58.350
That was something. Um, Ducky D says, Pac being a
1702
01:27:58.390 --> 01:28:00.750
Jamaican dance hall, reggae fan might have been the low
1703
01:28:00.789 --> 01:28:01.770
key surprise of the night.
1704
01:28:02.090 --> 01:28:02.430
LOL.
1705
01:28:02.989 --> 01:28:03.329
I love that.
1706
01:28:03.350 --> 01:28:05.069
He loved talking about the hedgehog in his garden. That,
1707
01:28:05.090 --> 01:28:06.090
that was, that was really cool.
1708
01:28:06.489 --> 01:28:07.470
Yeah. Yeah.
1709
01:28:07.670 --> 01:28:09.369
Those, those are the, those are the fun anecdotes, you know,
1710
01:28:09.430 --> 01:28:11.210
just like these are people that they have their little,
1711
01:28:11.630 --> 01:28:14.819
little things that they, little quirks that, you know, they're
1712
01:28:14.920 --> 01:28:18.920
bird watchers or magic gathering players or whatever, you know, they,
1713
01:28:18.939 --> 01:28:20.560
they have their thing.
1714
01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:25.949
Um, This might surprise you. Dan Haslam plays Magic the Gathering.
1715
01:28:26.010 --> 01:28:29.689
I'll wait for the shock to subside. The dancehall thing
1716
01:28:29.750 --> 01:28:33.529
really shocked me, not least of which because there's a
1717
01:28:33.569 --> 01:28:37.810
lot of artists in that art form who are quite problematic,
1718
01:28:38.069 --> 01:28:39.979
and some of that music is not at all.
1719
01:28:40.069 --> 01:28:42.140
Pleasant, but I grew up on it. I grew up
1720
01:28:42.180 --> 01:28:44.880
in the Caribbean, so it was part of my daily life.
1721
01:28:46.560 --> 01:28:49.279
It blew me away. I do know that he and.
1722
01:28:49.220 --> 01:28:51.819
Sami Zayn shared a lot of music with each other
1723
01:28:51.840 --> 01:28:54.859
because Sami being a big Ska fan and he is
1724
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:57.319
actually probably one of the people who I wish we
1725
01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:59.119
could have heard from most tonight because those two were
1726
01:28:59.140 --> 01:29:02.819
pretty close and he would have been somebody I would,
1727
01:29:03.180 --> 01:29:04.800
if I were Tony Khan, I might even have been
1728
01:29:04.840 --> 01:29:07.079
tempted to reach out to Triple H and say, hey,
1729
01:29:07.119 --> 01:29:09.789
can we get a statement from Sammy for this?
1730
01:29:09.829 --> 01:29:11.909
Yeah, the Pac-El Generico matches.
1731
01:29:12.829 --> 01:29:14.590
Yeah. Oh, that's a different guy, though.
1732
01:29:17.050 --> 01:29:17.609
Who is that?
1733
01:29:18.189 --> 01:29:19.689
Yeah, some random guy.
1734
01:29:20.890 --> 01:29:23.869
I would be very curious to know if there was
1735
01:29:23.909 --> 01:29:26.909
an approach made to see if anybody from WWE wanted
1736
01:29:26.949 --> 01:29:27.649
to say anything.
1737
01:29:27.680 --> 01:29:28.300
Yeah.
1738
01:29:28.979 --> 01:29:31.510
I think you'd be hard pressed to justify saying no
1739
01:29:31.789 --> 01:29:32.119
for it.
1740
01:29:32.869 --> 01:29:34.930
Even if it was on social media and not on TV,
1741
01:29:34.989 --> 01:29:38.369
maybe they could have done something, but yeah, Sammy, uh,
1742
01:29:38.569 --> 01:29:43.500
Kevin Owens would be another one. Um, a few people,
1743
01:29:44.300 --> 01:29:46.779
but Sammy, I know they were particularly close.
1744
01:29:47.460 --> 01:29:48.359
I'll see maybe Friday.
1745
01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:50.159
Yeah. Yeah.
1746
01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:52.319
Uh, in the chat, Kane play stuff says I came
1747
01:29:52.340 --> 01:29:54.779
away from the show feeling like I didn't respect POC enough.
1748
01:29:54.819 --> 01:29:56.609
That's how I felt the last few days. Like just
1749
01:29:57.130 --> 01:29:59.359
text some people who knew him. Um, and it wasn't
1750
01:29:59.399 --> 01:30:02.960
like there wasn't a respect there, but it's like, man, uh,
1751
01:30:03.380 --> 01:30:05.079
Zach Barber says my heart breaks for his parents having
1752
01:30:05.100 --> 01:30:07.810
to bury their only child boy. That was early in
1753
01:30:07.829 --> 01:30:11.529
the show. They mentioned that one and only son and,
1754
01:30:11.630 --> 01:30:13.750
and the mess and Renee Paquette haven't mentioned. I mean,
1755
01:30:13.789 --> 01:30:15.090
when I say there's like so many things mentioned that
1756
01:30:15.109 --> 01:30:17.590
were just wonderful about the show, Renee at ringside, reading
1757
01:30:17.630 --> 01:30:21.399
the statement collectively written by mom, dad, and wife. Um,
1758
01:30:22.359 --> 01:30:26.619
and just how touching that was. And, For her to
1759
01:30:26.659 --> 01:30:29.640
get through it, you know, because Excalibur was having trouble
1760
01:30:29.680 --> 01:30:31.020
at the top of the show. He's had to do
1761
01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:35.180
a lot lately. And then his voice cracking early in
1762
01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:36.979
the opening match with Mox and Orange and Tony going,
1763
01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:38.710
it's okay. You know, it's okay. We're all feeling it.
1764
01:30:39.800 --> 01:30:43.119
But Renee having to read that statement and the statement
1765
01:30:43.140 --> 01:30:47.319
was just amazing. To have that on the show and
1766
01:30:47.359 --> 01:30:53.210
include it was part of what made it, you know, magnificent. Uh,
1767
01:30:53.329 --> 01:30:55.029
Ducky D says, I'd love to hear TK get a
1768
01:30:55.050 --> 01:30:58.010
chance to speak about his relationship with Pac in time.
1769
01:30:58.750 --> 01:30:59.010
Indeed.
1770
01:30:59.050 --> 01:30:59.270
Yeah.
1771
01:30:59.689 --> 01:30:59.829
Yeah.
1772
01:30:59.850 --> 01:31:03.260
The, the, the story about from the family, speaking of which,
1773
01:31:03.300 --> 01:31:05.420
you know, where they, um, they said in the family
1774
01:31:05.439 --> 01:31:07.060
statement that, you know, when Pac met Tony Khan, they
1775
01:31:07.079 --> 01:31:09.319
hit it off and it changed his life and his career.
1776
01:31:10.460 --> 01:31:12.590
It'd be nice to hear, hear more there. Uh, Tony
1777
01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:14.350
Khan was on the stage with the wrestlers by the way,
1778
01:31:14.369 --> 01:31:18.630
at the, for the 10 bell salute. Safiq says, they
1779
01:31:18.649 --> 01:31:20.130
always say the best wrestling characters are people who are
1780
01:31:20.149 --> 01:31:22.850
themselves with the volume turned to 11. And Pac seems
1781
01:31:22.989 --> 01:31:24.949
to be the exception to that because in reality, he
1782
01:31:24.989 --> 01:31:28.270
was the opposite of a bastard. There's the old thing, though,
1783
01:31:28.289 --> 01:31:30.130
that the heels are the nicest guys and the baby
1784
01:31:30.170 --> 01:31:32.050
faces are the jerks. That was always the story in
1785
01:31:32.069 --> 01:31:35.569
the 80s when fans started, you know, doing the fan
1786
01:31:35.590 --> 01:31:37.470
club bulletins in the late seventies, early eighties. And then
1787
01:31:37.489 --> 01:31:40.939
the legit journalism style newsletters came out the bulletins with,
1788
01:31:41.020 --> 01:31:44.460
with actual news reporting, not playing along to wrestling, being real,
1789
01:31:44.500 --> 01:31:46.010
the torch, one of the, you know, one of the,
1790
01:31:46.340 --> 01:31:47.560
not the first one, but one of the early first
1791
01:31:47.619 --> 01:31:50.600
ones that was always like, okay, now we're going to
1792
01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:53.829
uncover all these, all these things about the rest. It
1793
01:31:53.869 --> 01:31:56.390
was a super cool time. I mean, there's just, there's,
1794
01:31:56.489 --> 01:31:59.850
I know there's newer fans watching and listening and you know,
1795
01:32:00.050 --> 01:32:02.859
I think more will end up being written. might be me,
1796
01:32:02.899 --> 01:32:06.329
might be somebody else about that era, the rise of
1797
01:32:06.350 --> 01:32:08.470
the newsletters in the pre-internet era and that sense of
1798
01:32:08.489 --> 01:32:12.210
community that was there and how it manifested in the politics,
1799
01:32:13.850 --> 01:32:17.050
the wars between newsletter editors and writers jumping to one
1800
01:32:17.090 --> 01:32:21.800
newsletter to the other and marketing that was done by
1801
01:32:21.899 --> 01:32:24.520
one newsletter, copied by another. I won't say what side
1802
01:32:24.539 --> 01:32:25.600
of that I was on, but I was on the
1803
01:32:25.619 --> 01:32:33.050
right side. No, no, it's fine. Um, no, it was flattering. Um, um,
1804
01:32:33.170 --> 01:32:34.829
but I'm, I'm, I bring that up not cause it's
1805
01:32:34.909 --> 01:32:36.529
actual beef, but like, that's the kind of thing that
1806
01:32:36.569 --> 01:32:38.609
was going, you know, like it was just all that
1807
01:32:38.630 --> 01:32:41.090
kind of stuff was going on. You think flame wars
1808
01:32:41.170 --> 01:32:44.170
and trolls, it was like, there were like full page
1809
01:32:44.210 --> 01:32:47.489
editorials with tons of passive aggressiveness aimed at a very
1810
01:32:47.529 --> 01:32:49.109
small audience of a writer who was very mad at
1811
01:32:49.170 --> 01:32:51.869
another writer in another newsletter. It was a fascinating time.
1812
01:32:52.449 --> 01:32:54.250
And one of the things that would happen is we'd
1813
01:32:54.270 --> 01:32:56.899
all compare notes. Like, what are you hearing? What have
1814
01:32:56.920 --> 01:32:58.979
you found out? Are you getting, you know, into the
1815
01:32:59.020 --> 01:33:01.420
locker room? Are you befriending a wrestler? And then you
1816
01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:03.600
had a whole generation of wrestlers who grew up reading
1817
01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:06.090
the sheets and they felt connected to it. Or I
1818
01:33:06.649 --> 01:33:08.970
can play the sheets. I can work the sheets to
1819
01:33:09.010 --> 01:33:12.289
get publicity to get ahead. And it started off with,
1820
01:33:12.310 --> 01:33:14.210
you know, the Eddie Gilberts of the world, Jim Cornette,
1821
01:33:14.229 --> 01:33:16.510
Paul Heyman were like the next generation of minds who,
1822
01:33:17.029 --> 01:33:18.829
who were like, we're going to embrace this. And then
1823
01:33:18.850 --> 01:33:23.029
you had old curmudgeons like Bill Watts who utilized the
1824
01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:25.500
my newsletter to try to lobby for a job in
1825
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:28.739
WCW as VP, it became such a thing. And one
1826
01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:30.560
of the things during all that era, and we're just,
1827
01:33:30.939 --> 01:33:32.560
everyone's trying to figure out how do we deal with
1828
01:33:32.640 --> 01:33:36.359
real journalism and wrestling? What it wasn't just that wrestling
1829
01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:40.180
was matches are predetermined and we were writing about it.
1830
01:33:40.310 --> 01:33:42.550
It was, we were writing about who were really nice
1831
01:33:42.590 --> 01:33:46.949
guys and who weren't. And the baby faces so often
1832
01:33:46.989 --> 01:33:50.310
were the jerks. And the heels were the artists who
1833
01:33:50.329 --> 01:33:51.949
were really creative and they didn't have the ego that
1834
01:33:51.989 --> 01:33:54.220
needed the cheers. They just wanted the art of being
1835
01:33:54.260 --> 01:33:56.579
a heel to get heel heat. And so this goes
1836
01:33:56.979 --> 01:34:00.920
back to Safiq's comment, which is Pac is kind of
1837
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:03.560
old school in that way. You know, he played a
1838
01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:07.020
heel some of the time, but it wasn't who he was.
1839
01:34:07.619 --> 01:34:10.930
And there was no trying to hide that on the show.
1840
01:34:11.329 --> 01:34:15.250
You know, there's a full acknowledgement of it. And so, yeah, it's, it's,
1841
01:34:15.310 --> 01:34:17.510
it brings up some memories of that, that notion that, yeah,
1842
01:34:17.529 --> 01:34:19.550
the good guys were the jerks and the heels were,
1843
01:34:19.590 --> 01:34:22.869
were always a good guys. And this, this plays into it. I, some.
1844
01:34:22.750 --> 01:34:25.510
Of the wrestlers I've met really portray that. Like one
1845
01:34:25.529 --> 01:34:28.090
of the nicest guys I ever had to sat down
1846
01:34:28.130 --> 01:34:30.949
with and chatted with was D'Lo Brown. Um, and he
1847
01:34:30.989 --> 01:34:32.470
was a heel at the time I met him, uh,
1848
01:34:33.270 --> 01:34:36.409
by spice and Smith in ring of honor, um, sadly
1849
01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:37.029
passed away.
1850
01:34:37.100 --> 01:34:39.949
Now, uh, it was a big dude, did some time in,
1851
01:34:40.140 --> 01:34:40.699
in Japan.
1852
01:34:40.720 --> 01:34:45.710
Um, also absolute sweetheart. had nothing but praise for basically
1853
01:34:45.750 --> 01:34:48.029
everybody I asked him about and everybody he'd ever worked with,
1854
01:34:48.449 --> 01:34:51.369
but played an absolute monster heel in the ring. And
1855
01:34:51.390 --> 01:34:53.289
then I get to sit down with Austin Aries and,
1856
01:34:53.310 --> 01:34:56.289
oh boy, let's just say that one was not as fun.
1857
01:34:58.510 --> 01:35:02.869
It does kind of play out, you know? And it's
1858
01:35:02.909 --> 01:35:06.770
good to see that some people like Pac still have that,
1859
01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:09.930
this is how wrestling is supposed to be. The person
1860
01:35:09.939 --> 01:35:12.149
you see on TV is not who I am, but
1861
01:35:12.170 --> 01:35:14.149
you're never actually going to see who I am unless
1862
01:35:14.189 --> 01:35:15.020
you're part of the family.
1863
01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:15.850
I love it.
1864
01:35:16.100 --> 01:35:16.399
I love it.
1865
01:35:18.199 --> 01:35:21.039
On Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop when NXT ends.
1866
01:35:21.199 --> 01:35:23.800
It's just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and alongside my
1867
01:35:23.819 --> 01:35:27.399
co-host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT. We
1868
01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:30.060
go live on the PWTorch YouTube channel about 15 minutes
1869
01:35:30.149 --> 01:35:32.770
after the show to break down matches, storylines, and surprises.
1870
01:35:32.949 --> 01:35:35.109
And we take your questions and comments from the live chat.
1871
01:35:35.250 --> 01:35:36.689
Miss us live, but you still want to be part
1872
01:35:36.710 --> 01:35:39.890
of the show? Send your thoughts to PWTorchNXT at gmail.com
1873
01:35:39.970 --> 01:35:42.489
and catch the replay on YouTube or on the PWTorch
1874
01:35:42.510 --> 01:35:45.750
Daily Cast feed. Just search PWTorch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
1875
01:35:45.869 --> 01:35:47.890
or wherever you listen. And of course, you can always
1876
01:35:47.909 --> 01:35:50.289
stream the latest shows at pwtorch.com.
1877
01:35:52.970 --> 01:35:54.630
Um, yeah.
1878
01:35:54.829 --> 01:35:56.770
And he was guarded. You know, I talked about that
1879
01:35:56.810 --> 01:35:58.369
earlier this weekend, wrote in the cover story before they
1880
01:35:58.390 --> 01:35:59.920
even talked about it tonight, that, that Pac was a
1881
01:35:59.939 --> 01:36:04.779
guy who was distant from strangers distant until you, he,
1882
01:36:04.899 --> 01:36:07.460
he felt safe and he felt like he was with
1883
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:09.680
people who does, who he could trust to see who
1884
01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:11.279
he really was. And then he would loosen up and
1885
01:36:11.319 --> 01:36:15.560
be fun. You know, I mean, um, that is old school.
1886
01:36:16.000 --> 01:36:20.270
I mean, to, Not everybody has that personality. People have
1887
01:36:20.279 --> 01:36:22.050
different ways of dealing with it, but yeah, he was
1888
01:36:22.090 --> 01:36:24.869
guarded in a way that was much more common in
1889
01:36:24.890 --> 01:36:25.539
the 1980s.
1890
01:36:26.270 --> 01:36:31.270
I would encourage people to seek out, there's a YouTube
1891
01:36:31.510 --> 01:36:37.069
primarily wrestling news site, well, content site that I follow.
1892
01:36:37.800 --> 01:36:39.359
Because they're all from England.
1893
01:36:39.859 --> 01:36:42.939
And one of the guys that knew Pac personally from
1894
01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:46.010
Newcastle knew him very well. And he did like a
1895
01:36:46.029 --> 01:36:48.989
15-minute tribute to him from the point of view of
1896
01:36:49.090 --> 01:36:52.270
a person who is in wrestling content creation and was
1897
01:36:52.310 --> 01:36:52.750
his friend.
1898
01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:58.500
And I highly recommend people seek that out. It's moving
1899
01:36:58.560 --> 01:36:58.899
as heck.
1900
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:04.170
Good, good. Glad you mentioned that. Ducky D says it
1901
01:37:04.210 --> 01:37:07.210
was AW's first sanction feud. Pac against Hangman. Pac was
1902
01:37:07.569 --> 01:37:12.420
truly day one. David Bryan says the commentators were fantastic tonight.
1903
01:37:12.460 --> 01:37:12.659
Yeah.
1904
01:37:13.340 --> 01:37:18.640
Yeah. Ducky D says Mox Pro was terrifyingly prophetic. I
1905
01:37:18.680 --> 01:37:22.619
rewatched the all-out match earlier today and Marina's facial expressions
1906
01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:24.699
and mannerisms after the match were eerie as well.
1907
01:37:25.010 --> 01:37:25.390
Interesting.
1908
01:37:25.949 --> 01:37:29.350
Maybe elaborate on it. David Bryan says wrestlers are artists.
1909
01:37:29.369 --> 01:37:30.909
A lot of people forget that, but they are.
1910
01:37:31.949 --> 01:37:32.289
Totally.
1911
01:37:32.350 --> 01:37:34.399
It's part of what I tell people and they don't
1912
01:37:34.420 --> 01:37:36.140
really understand as an adult, how can you watch that?
1913
01:37:36.159 --> 01:37:38.140
They just think it's something, you know, fake fighting for
1914
01:37:38.159 --> 01:37:40.390
kids with over the top cartoon characters. Like, you're not,
1915
01:37:41.239 --> 01:37:43.960
you don't understand, but I, you know, I get it,
1916
01:37:44.010 --> 01:37:50.989
but I'll kind of try to help you understand. All right.
1917
01:37:52.949 --> 01:37:57.850
Let's see. Sergio Cruz, 6161 says that Mox, welcome to
1918
01:37:57.880 --> 01:38:00.159
the chat. This Mox promo is beautiful and eerie. It's
1919
01:38:00.199 --> 01:38:03.500
like he was eulogizing. but Pac was standing right there.
1920
01:38:04.140 --> 01:38:06.079
And then the camera lingering on Pac after the promo
1921
01:38:06.100 --> 01:38:12.239
was over. It was intense stuff. Yes. Ducky D says,
1922
01:38:12.260 --> 01:38:14.800
I have such huge respect for Mox as the ace
1923
01:38:15.020 --> 01:38:17.100
and the leader of that AW locker. Just look how
1924
01:38:17.119 --> 01:38:19.390
he handles every aspect of his job.
1925
01:38:21.270 --> 01:38:21.590
Yes.
1926
01:38:24.909 --> 01:38:26.949
Zach Barber says, I really don't understand, or I don't
1927
01:38:26.989 --> 01:38:29.010
know how Renee got through that, reading that statement from
1928
01:38:29.050 --> 01:38:29.689
Pac's family.
1929
01:38:29.710 --> 01:38:29.770
No.
1930
01:38:30.770 --> 01:38:32.449
Almost didn't. I know.
1931
01:38:32.670 --> 01:38:36.250
Yeah. David says, Renee, David Bryant says, Renee seems like
1932
01:38:36.289 --> 01:38:37.210
such a class act.
1933
01:38:37.569 --> 01:38:38.649
Yeah, indeed.
1934
01:38:39.489 --> 01:38:41.439
Derek Mitchell says, AW's done such a good job honoring
1935
01:38:41.449 --> 01:38:43.079
Brody Lee, Andy Williams, and now Pac, and hope we
1936
01:38:43.100 --> 01:38:45.920
don't see another tribute show for a very long time. Yeah,
1937
01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:46.380
second that.
1938
01:38:47.489 --> 01:38:49.869
How about we get a retirement tribute show for someone
1939
01:38:49.909 --> 01:38:52.289
who's still alive and can actually watch it?
1940
01:38:52.569 --> 01:38:53.250
I can handle that.
1941
01:38:53.369 --> 01:38:53.550
Yeah.
1942
01:38:54.090 --> 01:38:55.430
Yeah. Yeah.
1943
01:38:57.229 --> 01:39:00.380
I thought tonight was Ricochet's best night in AEW.
1944
01:39:00.979 --> 01:39:01.600
Yep.
1945
01:39:02.300 --> 01:39:02.539
Yeah.
1946
01:39:02.859 --> 01:39:05.579
And Bob Bowman says, not going to lie, probably the
1947
01:39:05.600 --> 01:39:10.960
best Ricochet match I've ever seen. And Derek Mitchell says
1948
01:39:11.300 --> 01:39:14.239
he was a cornerstone of NXT, black and gold, but
1949
01:39:14.279 --> 01:39:15.880
not going to say WWE dropped the ball with him.
1950
01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:18.989
Not everyone even as great. as great an entering talent
1951
01:39:19.029 --> 01:39:20.250
is going to be a star in wb it all
1952
01:39:20.289 --> 01:39:24.550
worked out and he starred in aew still wish he'd
1953
01:39:24.569 --> 01:39:26.640
starred more you know i mean it just i feel
1954
01:39:26.649 --> 01:39:30.739
like just didn't fully get what what what he could
1955
01:39:30.779 --> 01:39:33.319
have been i talked about that earlier this week on
1956
01:39:33.340 --> 01:39:35.760
another podcast that there was more that could have been
1957
01:39:35.779 --> 01:39:39.970
done with him along the way um sergio says i
1958
01:39:40.010 --> 01:39:41.909
wish wb did a little more i'm with you pock
1959
01:39:41.949 --> 01:39:43.229
had a lot of friends there would have been nice
1960
01:39:43.270 --> 01:39:45.170
to let them pay tribute Pac hitting the red arrow
1961
01:39:45.210 --> 01:39:46.869
on Seth, almost winning the titles. One of my favorite
1962
01:39:46.890 --> 01:39:47.710
Pac moments ever.
1963
01:39:49.270 --> 01:39:49.470
Good.
1964
01:39:49.590 --> 01:39:52.310
Yeah.
1965
01:39:52.409 --> 01:39:55.050
One of my favorites is still the silly one where
1966
01:39:55.069 --> 01:39:58.060
he wrestled Gravity. And Gravity stood in the middle of
1967
01:39:58.100 --> 01:40:00.899
the ring and yelled at him, remember me? And Pac's like, nah.
1968
01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:05.239
Because he was always billed as the man Gravity forgot.
1969
01:40:06.260 --> 01:40:08.220
That's hilarious. That's great.
1970
01:40:08.880 --> 01:40:11.779
I was so glad that they did that. I do
1971
01:40:11.810 --> 01:40:14.289
want to, before I forget, I want to give props
1972
01:40:14.329 --> 01:40:18.329
to Wardlow. It was kind of weird that they brought
1973
01:40:18.369 --> 01:40:22.050
him back, but they did advertise him that on All Out,
1974
01:40:22.090 --> 01:40:25.229
they said he would be returning to Dynamite tonight. And
1975
01:40:25.260 --> 01:40:28.220
I guess they wanted to keep that promise. But I
1976
01:40:28.279 --> 01:40:34.159
thought Wardlow towed the line perfectly by smiling, acknowledging the
1977
01:40:34.220 --> 01:40:36.859
cheers for him when he was announced. They used the
1978
01:40:36.899 --> 01:40:40.500
camera angles brilliantly. So you couldn't see who he was
1979
01:40:40.960 --> 01:40:46.409
standing behind. I think it was Jake Doyle. And then
1980
01:40:46.430 --> 01:40:48.930
when they announced him and the crowd erupted and he
1981
01:40:48.970 --> 01:40:52.229
sort of walked forward, he didn't like go nuts and
1982
01:40:52.250 --> 01:40:54.430
hold his arms up and really celebrate with the crowd.
1983
01:40:54.470 --> 01:40:56.109
He just gave us sort of a little wry smile
1984
01:40:56.180 --> 01:40:58.279
and acknowledged it, got in the ring and did what
1985
01:40:58.300 --> 01:41:02.619
he had to do and wrestled like Wardlow wrestles, which is,
1986
01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:08.500
he could easily have tried to oversell that and inadvertently
1987
01:41:08.520 --> 01:41:11.500
made it about himself. And I'm really glad he, he
1988
01:41:11.659 --> 01:41:14.279
told that line and kept it downplayed it a bit,
1989
01:41:14.310 --> 01:41:16.010
but still acknowledge it. Yeah.
1990
01:41:16.130 --> 01:41:18.829
I'm back. Thank you. This isn't about me tonight.
1991
01:41:19.949 --> 01:41:20.149
Yeah.
1992
01:41:20.529 --> 01:41:21.170
Good, good point.
1993
01:41:21.590 --> 01:41:21.989
Good point.
1994
01:41:22.649 --> 01:41:25.109
By the way, Rudolph says, uh, rebel got the tribute
1995
01:41:25.130 --> 01:41:25.930
while she was still alive.
1996
01:41:26.430 --> 01:41:26.630
Yes.
1997
01:41:27.289 --> 01:41:27.470
Yeah.
1998
01:41:28.510 --> 01:41:35.909
So that's good. Um, I'm just trying to pick up
1999
01:41:36.979 --> 01:41:39.439
a few more chat comments before I go to Sean.
2000
01:41:41.260 --> 01:41:43.960
But I think we got just about everything that I
2001
01:41:44.699 --> 01:41:47.649
had seen that I wanted to put up. So, yeah, thanks, Chad,
2002
01:41:48.890 --> 01:41:50.609
for this. Oh, Derek Mitchell, bring up the Von Erichs
2003
01:41:50.630 --> 01:41:52.470
from the mid-80s. I remember watching those David Von Erich
2004
01:41:52.510 --> 01:41:54.369
Memorial shows and Kerry Von Erich beating Rick Flair for
2005
01:41:54.409 --> 01:41:57.829
the NBA World title. That was a title David Von
2006
01:41:57.869 --> 01:42:01.819
Erich was supposed to win. Rude Dog notes, statistically, Pac
2007
01:42:01.840 --> 01:42:04.359
was in NXT WWE for five years total, three in NXT,
2008
01:42:04.399 --> 01:42:14.439
two in WWE, and A.W. Pac was there for seven years. Yeah. Yeah,
2009
01:42:14.479 --> 01:42:16.970
just Ducky D says, WWE streaming that show tonight was
2010
01:42:16.979 --> 01:42:19.329
tasteless and greedy. I don't care. Them moving days or
2011
01:42:19.369 --> 01:42:20.949
times would have earned a lot of respect from me.
2012
01:42:20.970 --> 01:42:22.510
Yeah.
2013
01:42:24.649 --> 01:42:27.659
Yeah. uh and sergio just says yeah i wish wb
2014
01:42:27.680 --> 01:42:28.979
in general did a little more oh i think i
2015
01:42:28.979 --> 01:42:32.100
already got that okay so let's uh let's bring uh
2016
01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:37.689
sean into the conversation here um sean welcome uh good
2017
01:42:37.729 --> 01:42:39.069
to talk to you again how's it going.
2018
01:42:40.470 --> 01:42:45.930
No it's going well um can you hear chris oh
2019
01:42:45.989 --> 01:42:47.430
yeah oh have you been able to hear chris that's
2020
01:42:47.449 --> 01:42:49.350
a reference for a dog who couldn't no no no
2021
01:42:49.770 --> 01:42:52.909
no were you not around for a dog's call I
2022
01:42:52.949 --> 01:42:54.550
was not, no, because I.
2023
01:42:54.770 --> 01:42:56.229
Oh, then you're fine. Then the joke, you won't get
2024
01:42:56.250 --> 01:42:58.229
the joke, because Rujo couldn't hear him, so I was like, well,
2025
01:42:58.260 --> 01:42:59.979
can you hear him? It would be funny if you could.
2026
01:43:00.220 --> 01:43:00.579
Oh, no.
2027
01:43:00.920 --> 01:43:02.220
It was sad.
2028
01:43:02.300 --> 01:43:03.439
I was in line.
2029
01:43:03.500 --> 01:43:05.159
I got home, and I was watching, and then I
2030
01:43:05.159 --> 01:43:09.020
got behind for other reasons, and then I... I won't
2031
01:43:09.060 --> 01:43:11.079
even tell you why I did the other thing, but
2032
01:43:11.100 --> 01:43:11.979
that's a whole other story.
2033
01:43:12.460 --> 01:43:13.319
So I'm here.
2034
01:43:13.359 --> 01:43:15.149
I wanted to get the chance to talk about the
2035
01:43:15.159 --> 01:43:17.159
show a little bit. Chris, first of all, I want
2036
01:43:17.189 --> 01:43:19.550
to say I always enjoy when you call in late
2037
01:43:19.590 --> 01:43:23.069
shows before. Obviously, we've been close. We've talked many times
2038
01:43:23.130 --> 01:43:27.310
since then. But I'm honestly just thankful you're doing okay, better.
2039
01:43:27.909 --> 01:43:30.670
And I've been praying for you, man, and I hope
2040
01:43:30.689 --> 01:43:35.819
you continue to just– get the positive vibes because you
2041
01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:37.880
are a good, you are a good person that cares
2042
01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:40.239
about people. And so I, I, you know, I'm just
2043
01:43:40.260 --> 01:43:42.390
glad you're back on here talking about what you love
2044
01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:42.930
to talk about.
2045
01:43:43.010 --> 01:43:45.970
So I want to get that out there. Yeah. So I.
2046
01:43:47.670 --> 01:43:49.829
Would, I did talk to Jason on his show and
2047
01:43:49.869 --> 01:43:52.289
I did say the same thing going into the, I
2048
01:43:52.329 --> 01:43:55.899
was really, yes, W2B can do something on Friday if
2049
01:43:55.920 --> 01:43:58.340
they wanted to quote unquote, but Monday they had a
2050
01:43:58.380 --> 01:44:02.890
chance and yes, they did the graphic and that's fine. Man,
2051
01:44:03.029 --> 01:44:05.569
they should have done more. I was disappointed. I thought
2052
01:44:05.609 --> 01:44:07.289
they should have. They didn't have to do what AEW
2053
01:44:07.310 --> 01:44:08.949
did tonight, and I knew they weren't going to do
2054
01:44:08.989 --> 01:44:12.300
what AEW did tonight. I knew they wouldn't, but come on, man.
2055
01:44:12.479 --> 01:44:14.460
He was a very vital part of what you were doing.
2056
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:17.420
He was on WrestleMania. He was the Cruiserweight Champion. He
2057
01:44:17.899 --> 01:44:20.439
wrestled KO and Sammy, like you said. He had a
2058
01:44:20.479 --> 01:44:23.439
lot of those matches. I think people could have talked
2059
01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:25.489
about him a little bit, and it didn't have to
2060
01:44:25.529 --> 01:44:28.890
be super, super long, but... talk about what i thought you.
2061
01:44:29.090 --> 01:44:31.289
Know i thought monday they were just gonna save it
2062
01:44:31.310 --> 01:44:35.489
for nxt like that's where you know he he had
2063
01:44:35.560 --> 01:44:36.960
a you know kind of a more of a peak
2064
01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:39.779
main event push i was like okay i can deal
2065
01:44:39.800 --> 01:44:41.119
with that but i don't i don't want to get
2066
01:44:41.140 --> 01:44:43.539
into wbashing i mean i get you know because their
2067
01:44:43.560 --> 01:44:44.819
heart might have been in the right place even if
2068
01:44:44.840 --> 01:44:47.039
we disagree with the decision which is he was native
2069
01:44:47.060 --> 01:44:48.680
guy all these years he was a bigger deal there
2070
01:44:48.699 --> 01:44:51.909
than here he has so many friends there let's just
2071
01:44:52.130 --> 01:44:55.789
and let's just let AW do this. And, you know,
2072
01:44:55.829 --> 01:44:58.069
that's what Chris has posited. And so I don't want
2073
01:44:58.090 --> 01:45:00.090
to be critical. I'm just saying I would have voted
2074
01:45:00.250 --> 01:45:02.109
for them doing more. And I think you would too, Sean,
2075
01:45:02.430 --> 01:45:03.979
but I'm not going to be critical of them for
2076
01:45:04.149 --> 01:45:06.199
not doing it, but I would like to see them
2077
01:45:06.239 --> 01:45:07.699
do more Friday. I don't think it would be too
2078
01:45:07.720 --> 01:45:09.220
little too late. I think it would just be like, Hey,
2079
01:45:09.699 --> 01:45:11.380
AW got their turn now.
2080
01:45:14.220 --> 01:45:16.119
I will be critical of them for running worlds collide
2081
01:45:16.140 --> 01:45:17.659
tonight though. Yeah.
2082
01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:17.979
Okay.
2083
01:45:20.939 --> 01:45:23.310
Even if they had delayed the debut.
2084
01:45:22.930 --> 01:45:25.390
Until Dynamite went off the air, you could have kept
2085
01:45:25.430 --> 01:45:26.970
it on the same night and just put it on
2086
01:45:27.289 --> 01:45:28.010
after Dynamite.
2087
01:45:28.569 --> 01:45:31.350
It's not a live show. There was no reason to
2088
01:45:31.399 --> 01:45:32.220
start it when they did.
2089
01:45:32.239 --> 01:45:35.100
That I will criticize them for.
2090
01:45:36.699 --> 01:45:40.260
But everything else, I'll see what they do Friday before
2091
01:45:40.300 --> 01:45:40.939
I get on their case.
2092
01:45:41.520 --> 01:45:41.970
Yeah, yeah.
2093
01:45:44.060 --> 01:45:46.020
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
2094
01:45:46.050 --> 01:45:48.090
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
2095
01:45:48.130 --> 01:45:50.609
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
2096
01:45:50.649 --> 01:45:54.789
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash
2097
01:45:54.850 --> 01:45:59.560
GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP.
2098
01:45:59.909 --> 01:46:03.619
Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account,
2099
01:46:03.760 --> 01:46:05.699
through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up
2100
01:46:05.720 --> 01:46:08.880
with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app
2101
01:46:09.060 --> 01:46:11.890
with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed
2102
01:46:11.930 --> 01:46:15.250
for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go
2103
01:46:15.289 --> 01:46:18.949
to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the
2104
01:46:19.069 --> 01:46:23.420
options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options, unlock our
2105
01:46:23.520 --> 01:46:26.380
VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week.
2106
01:46:29.939 --> 01:46:32.159
So when I was watching the show, I watched all
2107
01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:36.270
out a day late. So I had just watched his
2108
01:46:36.449 --> 01:46:40.529
match actually, like right before the, it came out, you know,
2109
01:46:40.569 --> 01:46:42.989
like I had a bleacher report, you know, the thing
2110
01:46:43.010 --> 01:46:45.829
that came out. And so it was really surreal for me.
2111
01:46:45.890 --> 01:46:47.329
Cause I think I had just seen it like maybe
2112
01:46:47.329 --> 01:46:50.430
15 minutes before that came out. And so it really
2113
01:46:50.470 --> 01:46:52.680
just hit me like, Oh my gosh. Like, and then
2114
01:46:52.720 --> 01:46:54.069
he came out at the end of the show and
2115
01:46:54.100 --> 01:46:56.800
I was like, Oh my gosh. Like it was so
2116
01:46:56.859 --> 01:46:57.760
surreal to me.
2117
01:46:58.460 --> 01:46:58.909
And then, wow.
2118
01:47:00.829 --> 01:47:04.520
I was obviously talking to Jason and different people about it.
2119
01:47:04.569 --> 01:47:07.819
And then, so when I saw the show tonight, it
2120
01:47:07.859 --> 01:47:09.520
was like, I was so.
2121
01:47:10.760 --> 01:47:11.020
It was.
2122
01:47:10.960 --> 01:47:14.199
Obviously very touching. I mean, everything about what they did
2123
01:47:14.279 --> 01:47:14.899
was so.
2124
01:47:16.680 --> 01:47:18.420
Even though we don't want to see these shows, and
2125
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:20.979
like you said, I hope we never do for quite
2126
01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:25.359
a while. But they did just a really good job.
2127
01:47:25.380 --> 01:47:26.239
The only thing, you know.
2128
01:47:27.020 --> 01:47:29.859
Again, you can nitpick, which I'm always a little worried
2129
01:47:29.880 --> 01:47:33.720
with AEW sometimes with not even how they do the tributes.
2130
01:47:33.779 --> 01:47:36.970
It's just like with some of the characters, just some
2131
01:47:36.979 --> 01:47:38.970
of the heel-face dynamic. But I'm trying to be– I'm
2132
01:47:39.060 --> 01:47:42.149
being cool tonight because, again, it was a different circumstance.
2133
01:47:42.789 --> 01:47:44.649
We have intentionally not talked about that, but yeah.
2134
01:47:44.949 --> 01:47:46.850
Yeah, and I'm worried next week. I'm just worried next
2135
01:47:46.890 --> 01:47:48.729
week what they do with some of that because of
2136
01:47:48.789 --> 01:47:52.649
those issues, and I pray they can figure those things out.
2137
01:47:52.789 --> 01:47:55.609
But everything with Mox was just so cool.
2138
01:47:56.550 --> 01:48:00.069
Um everything let me let me push on on that
2139
01:48:00.109 --> 01:48:04.979
issue chris does does is tonight canon that aw is
2140
01:48:05.020 --> 01:48:08.979
responsible for or is this an exception that they can
2141
01:48:09.140 --> 01:48:13.270
we give them a mulligan for the minimal pivot back
2142
01:48:13.350 --> 01:48:16.729
to the way things were or or like can if
2143
01:48:16.750 --> 01:48:18.949
ricochet just shows up next week haha and just does
2144
01:48:18.989 --> 01:48:21.060
his does his big and is all cocky it's like
2145
01:48:21.479 --> 01:48:23.189
I mean I just this is kind of like the
2146
01:48:23.229 --> 01:48:28.329
whole pandemic COVID era it's just like these pre-recorded matches
2147
01:48:28.350 --> 01:48:32.260
that are phony and overproduced and like, I would be
2148
01:48:32.319 --> 01:48:34.699
critical of them under normal circumstances, but they're just trying
2149
01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:37.579
to fill TV time without an audience getting creative. I said,
2150
01:48:38.159 --> 01:48:39.930
they get creative license for this. And there's a reason
2151
01:48:40.159 --> 01:48:42.310
he doesn't air highlights of that stuff. It just, it's,
2152
01:48:42.739 --> 01:48:44.390
it kind of was in its own category. And I
2153
01:48:44.430 --> 01:48:47.289
think something like tonight, it might give you an idea
2154
01:48:47.329 --> 01:48:49.489
or an inspiration to do something else. It might create
2155
01:48:49.590 --> 01:48:52.130
fans going, I've never booed on Moxley again. I mean,
2156
01:48:52.149 --> 01:48:54.449
they might have a problem with that, but in terms
2157
01:48:54.510 --> 01:48:59.409
of integrity to the storytelling, my argument is, I will
2158
01:48:59.430 --> 01:49:01.380
give them a mulligan and give them flexibility on it.
2159
01:49:01.750 --> 01:49:04.109
But I'm okay with them looking at tonight and going,
2160
01:49:04.409 --> 01:49:07.229
maybe there's someone we want to cast differently going forward
2161
01:49:07.250 --> 01:49:10.189
because we saw a side of them and fans won't
2162
01:49:10.210 --> 01:49:11.810
be able to forget it. So Chris, where are you
2163
01:49:11.850 --> 01:49:12.069
on this?
2164
01:49:12.529 --> 01:49:14.340
That's kind of where I'm at. I think they can,
2165
01:49:15.060 --> 01:49:17.079
if they want to use some of it as canon,
2166
01:49:17.600 --> 01:49:20.340
go for it. But my default assumption is none of
2167
01:49:20.380 --> 01:49:23.420
that actually happened. This was almost like a very special
2168
01:49:23.479 --> 01:49:25.979
episode or one of those time travel episodes you used
2169
01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:28.220
to see on sitcoms where none of it actually happened, right?
2170
01:49:29.100 --> 01:49:32.390
If they want to talk about Ospreay beating Ricochet in
2171
01:49:32.430 --> 01:49:35.310
an Eliminator match, sure, you can do that. If they
2172
01:49:35.329 --> 01:49:37.649
want to talk about Danielson returning to the ring but
2173
01:49:37.710 --> 01:49:40.140
not really say any more other than that, you can
2174
01:49:40.159 --> 01:49:43.359
probably do that too. But they don't have to. And
2175
01:49:43.939 --> 01:49:46.140
this was not a night for story. This was a
2176
01:49:46.199 --> 01:49:48.479
night for everything in the ring. It was designed to
2177
01:49:48.500 --> 01:49:51.229
make you feel good. Their faces won all the matches tonight.
2178
01:49:51.250 --> 01:49:55.659
And you know, everybody got to do their signature spots.
2179
01:49:55.760 --> 01:49:59.439
Everything was about being spectacular, paying tribute to a guy
2180
01:49:59.920 --> 01:50:03.359
and putting on a show that made people realize how
2181
01:50:03.500 --> 01:50:07.460
special he was, but still go home feeling good. And I,
2182
01:50:07.590 --> 01:50:10.529
if any of it gets mentioned next week, it'll be minor.
2183
01:50:10.630 --> 01:50:12.770
And I'd be surprised if it matters going forward.
2184
01:50:13.609 --> 01:50:16.289
I want to be clear. Danielson came out of retirement tonight.
2185
01:50:16.430 --> 01:50:19.350
They can't take that away. Like a year from now,
2186
01:50:19.550 --> 01:50:23.329
first time in years, right? Like, no, um, this happened.
2187
01:50:23.670 --> 01:50:26.189
Like I'm owning that. I just think storyline wise, Sean,
2188
01:50:26.569 --> 01:50:28.550
like King of the North PW says, I see zero
2189
01:50:28.590 --> 01:50:30.050
reason why they can't, why you can't just chalk this
2190
01:50:30.109 --> 01:50:31.729
up as a one night only thing. So I think
2191
01:50:31.750 --> 01:50:34.760
they have to own something like Danielson came back and wrestled.
2192
01:50:35.399 --> 01:50:37.609
Wardlow returned. They're not going to next week. Wardlow can't
2193
01:50:37.640 --> 01:50:39.720
come out and they go, where's he been? Like, so
2194
01:50:40.020 --> 01:50:46.600
this is canon in that sense, but you know, Danielson
2195
01:50:46.680 --> 01:50:48.359
is not, if he's on color commentary, he's not going
2196
01:50:48.380 --> 01:50:50.560
to ignore what happened with Moxley tonight. But I don't
2197
01:50:50.569 --> 01:50:52.439
think it has to be a major turning point in
2198
01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:55.699
Moxley's character because I don't know that it necessarily even is.
2199
01:50:56.260 --> 01:50:59.239
It's just more of who he was. I mean, this
2200
01:50:59.279 --> 01:51:02.939
was felt, not that this was obviously in the realm
2201
01:51:02.960 --> 01:51:05.659
of a work, Sean, but this wasn't that disconnected from
2202
01:51:05.739 --> 01:51:08.460
what Moxley did Sunday at the end of the match
2203
01:51:08.520 --> 01:51:11.220
with Ospreay and the post-match promo that was recorded with,
2204
01:51:11.800 --> 01:51:14.039
you know, obviously no knowledge of Pac's death. This just,
2205
01:51:14.199 --> 01:51:16.680
what happened tonight with Danielson felt like a natural continuation
2206
01:51:16.720 --> 01:51:16.939
of that.
2207
01:51:18.220 --> 01:51:18.420
Yeah.
2208
01:51:18.840 --> 01:51:20.600
And so, and that's what threw me off, you know,
2209
01:51:20.659 --> 01:51:24.979
initially when, and of course when Mox's promo hit, you know, again,
2210
01:51:25.039 --> 01:51:27.239
like you said, it was before that, that happened. So
2211
01:51:28.039 --> 01:51:29.960
when I'm watching the match of all out, I'm seeing
2212
01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:32.600
Mox try to do everything to cheat to win. And
2213
01:51:32.640 --> 01:51:34.310
then all of a sudden he, you know, he just
2214
01:51:34.319 --> 01:51:37.210
loves Moxley or sorry, he loves himself. He loves Osprey
2215
01:51:37.329 --> 01:51:40.390
at the end. It's like, okay, that's just kind of weird,
2216
01:51:40.470 --> 01:51:43.090
you know, but tonight, everything they did was fine. Like
2217
01:51:43.130 --> 01:51:45.770
I said, again, tonight was fine because of everything that
2218
01:51:45.800 --> 01:51:47.800
happened with pack. I mean, that's fine. I'm not being
2219
01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:50.279
critical of that. I'm just worried about them going future
2220
01:51:50.399 --> 01:51:53.380
forward because it's just weird when you're seeing Gabe kid,
2221
01:51:53.420 --> 01:51:55.840
like do, you know, you know, again, for a good
2222
01:51:55.899 --> 01:51:58.439
reason tonight, but then next week he, or the two
2223
01:51:58.479 --> 01:52:00.380
weeks later, he's going to be back to being a heel,
2224
01:52:00.399 --> 01:52:01.159
a crazy heel.
2225
01:52:01.760 --> 01:52:03.800
And that's the stuff I'm fine with. I'm not worried
2226
01:52:03.819 --> 01:52:04.020
about it.
2227
01:52:04.020 --> 01:52:04.180
Yeah.
2228
01:52:04.199 --> 01:52:04.319
Yeah.
2229
01:52:04.340 --> 01:52:07.140
I'm fine. I just think people get it. I mean,
2230
01:52:07.479 --> 01:52:09.680
it almost feels it's, I mean, not that I'm a
2231
01:52:09.720 --> 01:52:13.250
fan of WWE unreal, but it's, It's sort of like this. Yes,
2232
01:52:13.310 --> 01:52:15.800
it was opening and closing credits on a Dynamite episode.
2233
01:52:15.819 --> 01:52:18.380
It wasn't a documentary, but it sort of also just was.
2234
01:52:18.539 --> 01:52:20.600
It just felt like a special. It was a blend
2235
01:52:20.640 --> 01:52:23.159
of it. I understand there's a bit of a conundrum
2236
01:52:23.180 --> 01:52:26.489
in terms of what to own and what to discard
2237
01:52:26.529 --> 01:52:29.430
or not address, but it's not a big deal. What else, Sean?
2238
01:52:30.510 --> 01:52:33.310
And just talking about when everybody was talking about their
2239
01:52:33.329 --> 01:52:35.869
own specific– instances and that's what i like when they
2240
01:52:35.890 --> 01:52:38.149
go back to everybody you know at least at least
2241
01:52:38.170 --> 01:52:41.270
definitely osprey which i loved and hangman just being as
2242
01:52:41.289 --> 01:52:43.670
emotional as he was talking about the very beginning and
2243
01:52:44.229 --> 01:52:45.930
what he meant to him it was just cool seeing
2244
01:52:45.949 --> 01:52:49.029
everybody's unique perspective of what he meant to them because
2245
01:52:49.430 --> 01:52:52.569
i didn't see him before he was neville and so
2246
01:52:53.390 --> 01:52:55.350
but then i got to watch him and i kind
2247
01:52:55.390 --> 01:52:57.090
of thought all the same things you guys have as
2248
01:52:57.130 --> 01:52:59.109
far as how crispy was in the ring like every
2249
01:52:59.149 --> 01:53:03.939
match he did They told a good story behind them,
2250
01:53:03.960 --> 01:53:08.300
and there was the professionalism and just everything about him
2251
01:53:08.359 --> 01:53:11.010
I really, really liked, everything about his character and what
2252
01:53:11.050 --> 01:53:13.130
he portrayed and what he was trying to get across.
2253
01:53:14.170 --> 01:53:20.069
And so, yeah, it's crazy. But I'm glad they did
2254
01:53:20.109 --> 01:53:22.779
this tribute. It was so well done all the way around.
2255
01:53:23.729 --> 01:53:25.310
And that's really all I want, because I didn't get
2256
01:53:25.319 --> 01:53:26.810
to really talk about it with a lot of people,
2257
01:53:26.829 --> 01:53:28.109
so I'm glad I got to at least get on
2258
01:53:28.149 --> 01:53:29.930
here and kind of share some of that, because I
2259
01:53:30.710 --> 01:53:32.409
have no issue with this show tonight as a whole.
2260
01:53:32.850 --> 01:53:33.960
I loved every bit of it.
2261
01:53:33.970 --> 01:53:35.489
I mean, it was great. I mean, I.
2262
01:53:37.109 --> 01:53:37.510
They.
2263
01:53:37.529 --> 01:53:41.770
Because I was... It was crazy, because as good as
2264
01:53:41.789 --> 01:53:43.850
they did with the Rebel show, and they did such
2265
01:53:43.869 --> 01:53:46.109
a great job with the Rebel show, obviously now, like
2266
01:53:46.189 --> 01:53:48.229
I said, she hasn't passed on. I pray it's a
2267
01:53:48.489 --> 01:53:51.149
while before she does, but with Pac, it's like it
2268
01:53:51.189 --> 01:53:53.739
was so sudden, but they were able to get this
2269
01:53:53.760 --> 01:53:56.659
show together, get everything that they could to honor him.
2270
01:53:56.979 --> 01:54:00.210
And it's about as well done as you could. And I,
2271
01:54:00.779 --> 01:54:06.310
I'm thankful that we, as wrestling fans get to talk
2272
01:54:06.329 --> 01:54:08.510
with each other and share all these, these memories and
2273
01:54:08.529 --> 01:54:11.689
all this history and all this. Um, and it was
2274
01:54:11.710 --> 01:54:14.310
a great Osprey ricochet match too. It was really, you know,
2275
01:54:14.430 --> 01:54:17.060
it brought us some of that old match that had, um,
2276
01:54:17.180 --> 01:54:19.000
brought some of that, even though, you know, you could
2277
01:54:19.060 --> 01:54:23.119
say some Osprey stuff, you know, just the, sometimes you know,
2278
01:54:23.159 --> 01:54:25.020
sell stuff, but the, but again, it was fun in
2279
01:54:25.039 --> 01:54:27.069
this match because again, it was just, they were honoring
2280
01:54:27.090 --> 01:54:28.750
him and they were honoring what they've done before.
2281
01:54:29.229 --> 01:54:30.390
And it was, it was all, it was all good.
2282
01:54:30.710 --> 01:54:35.369
I really enjoyed it. And, um, it's, uh, it's, it's,
2283
01:54:35.449 --> 01:54:38.789
it's good, but I'm interested in what, you know, what
2284
01:54:38.829 --> 01:54:41.979
the show does next week, how they pivot. And, um, it's, uh,
2285
01:54:42.029 --> 01:54:44.109
it's always hard to pivot, you know, you have to, and,
2286
01:54:44.479 --> 01:54:46.899
and Tony, thank goodness was really good tonight. You know,
2287
01:54:47.039 --> 01:54:49.609
as bad as he's been on other shows and, tonight
2288
01:54:49.630 --> 01:54:51.270
he was just fine he was just enjoying what they
2289
01:54:51.289 --> 01:54:53.350
were doing and it was good i i was just
2290
01:54:53.470 --> 01:54:56.250
very cathartic and it was just it was good so.
2291
01:54:56.310 --> 01:54:59.720
Great thanks sean yeah i'll get in the chat and
2292
01:54:59.739 --> 01:55:02.739
listen to the rest of the show sounds good few
2293
01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:05.439
uh comments along these lines through doug says even though
2294
01:55:05.460 --> 01:55:07.579
it's a touching moment with danielson and hugging i think
2295
01:55:07.600 --> 01:55:09.199
pock would have been happier if danielson would have kicked
2296
01:55:09.239 --> 01:55:12.689
mox in the effing head um i don't know i
2297
01:55:12.710 --> 01:55:15.050
mean i i get it i i get it but
2298
01:55:16.050 --> 01:55:20.640
i mean the in the I think Pac would have,
2299
01:55:21.380 --> 01:55:23.199
his character would have been rooting for Moxley to do
2300
01:55:23.260 --> 01:55:25.380
it to Danielson, but because he didn't, then Pac would
2301
01:55:25.399 --> 01:55:27.140
have been like, yeah, Danielson, you do it to Moxley,
2302
01:55:27.159 --> 01:55:29.979
I guess. Um, Zach Barber says, I do think the
2303
01:55:30.020 --> 01:55:32.569
Death Riders are total baby faces for good now, but
2304
01:55:32.670 --> 01:55:33.710
Wheeler Yuta's still in the group.
2305
01:55:35.029 --> 01:55:35.130
Yeah.
2306
01:55:36.149 --> 01:55:38.569
He's the chief baby face. Listen, Todd is on my
2307
01:55:38.609 --> 01:55:40.489
side with Wheeler Yuta. I've heard him say it.
2308
01:55:41.289 --> 01:55:41.569
Yes.
2309
01:55:43.649 --> 01:55:45.449
Um, Ducky D says, I also think Ricochet and Oz
2310
01:55:45.520 --> 01:55:47.359
have been showing some begrudging respect for each other for
2311
01:55:47.380 --> 01:55:51.729
a while now. Um, uh hm made his peace with
2312
01:55:51.750 --> 01:55:54.149
the elite dr cheated in their match despite the cheers
2313
01:55:54.369 --> 01:55:57.569
it was okay uh king of the north says i
2314
01:55:57.569 --> 01:55:59.199
don't think osprey is just going to continue hitting black
2315
01:55:59.260 --> 01:56:01.300
arrows in his title matches going forward it's a time
2316
01:56:01.340 --> 01:56:05.020
capsule to me uh but zach barber says i'd be
2317
01:56:05.060 --> 01:56:07.279
okay with him pulling out the black arrow from time
2318
01:56:07.319 --> 01:56:09.779
to time i would i would too i mean that's
2319
01:56:09.819 --> 01:56:11.930
a just very personal choice i don't and put a
2320
01:56:11.970 --> 01:56:15.319
lot of thought into it but um I mean, if.
2321
01:56:15.300 --> 01:56:17.600
We still got people doing the three amigos left, right,
2322
01:56:17.649 --> 01:56:19.970
and center, I don't think putting out a black hour
2323
01:56:19.989 --> 01:56:22.569
from time to time is a problem, especially because there
2324
01:56:22.609 --> 01:56:25.180
might be six people in wrestling who can actually do it.
2325
01:56:25.770 --> 01:56:28.329
So it's, yeah, I think, I think it has a
2326
01:56:28.350 --> 01:56:28.829
place still.
2327
01:56:30.750 --> 01:56:33.029
Anything else you want to bring up, Chris? I'm not
2328
01:56:33.069 --> 01:56:35.079
in the mood to analyze the show. There's not in
2329
01:56:35.100 --> 01:56:37.920
the mood to analyze spot fast or, you know, ring
2330
01:56:37.960 --> 01:56:41.420
psychology or breaking up pins. Like, yeah, it's just, it's not,
2331
01:56:41.460 --> 01:56:42.840
this isn't, this isn't the week for that.
2332
01:56:42.899 --> 01:56:43.220
Obviously.
2333
01:56:43.850 --> 01:56:45.390
I thought Marina Shafir looked pretty good.
2334
01:56:45.670 --> 01:56:47.510
Um, I really liked that jawbreaker move.
2335
01:56:47.529 --> 01:56:48.729
She did that look brutal.
2336
01:56:49.310 --> 01:56:52.750
Um, but for the most part, apart from the, maybe
2337
01:56:52.789 --> 01:56:54.170
I thought we were going to get earlier dragon off,
2338
01:56:54.189 --> 01:56:55.289
which I've already mentioned.
2339
01:56:55.329 --> 01:56:57.109
Yeah. This was a, this was a show designed to
2340
01:56:57.149 --> 01:56:57.789
make you feel good.
2341
01:56:59.010 --> 01:56:59.189
Yeah.
2342
01:56:59.770 --> 01:57:01.770
Britt was, uh, looking like she needed or acting like
2343
01:57:01.789 --> 01:57:04.840
she was going to need dental work after, um, after
2344
01:57:04.880 --> 01:57:08.500
the match. Yeah, exactly. I don't think dentists make good
2345
01:57:08.539 --> 01:57:12.119
dental patients. Um, they always say doctors are the worst patients, but, um,
2346
01:57:13.069 --> 01:57:13.369
Who knows?
2347
01:57:13.689 --> 01:57:13.970
All right.
2348
01:57:14.470 --> 01:57:15.560
Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it.
2349
01:57:16.010 --> 01:57:17.130
Yeah, absolutely. Anytime.
2350
01:57:17.149 --> 01:57:17.930
Appreciate being here for this.
2351
01:57:17.989 --> 01:57:18.149
Yep.
2352
01:57:18.609 --> 01:57:22.539
Thank you, Rudy. In the chat, wonderful contributions in so
2353
01:57:22.579 --> 01:57:24.840
many different ways. So thank you for that.
2354
01:57:25.500 --> 01:57:25.659
Yeah.
2355
01:57:25.840 --> 01:57:30.180
Go VIP. We'd love to have you as a VIP member. PWTorchVIPinfo.com.
2356
01:57:31.100 --> 01:57:35.500
And be on the lookout for the Ellen 4L tribute
2357
01:57:35.520 --> 01:57:39.000
show to Pac, to Adrian Neville, to Ben. Um, we'll
2358
01:57:39.020 --> 01:57:41.760
have that up on, uh, the blue, red or daily
2359
01:57:41.779 --> 01:57:44.239
cast feed in the next few days. Uh, one way
2360
01:57:44.260 --> 01:57:47.560
or the other, uh, or our free pot or our, um, uh,
2361
01:57:47.659 --> 01:57:50.140
Apple podcast, free sample feed. And we'll, we'll draw attention
2362
01:57:50.159 --> 01:57:55.149
to it on the other shows. So that, um, cool. Thanks. Um,
2363
01:57:55.710 --> 01:57:58.909
what a night. Great job. Um, AW. And, uh, I
2364
01:57:58.949 --> 01:58:01.470
feel like privileged that everyone who knew POC as well
2365
01:58:01.529 --> 01:58:04.840
as they did, as well as they did, were willing
2366
01:58:04.939 --> 01:58:11.300
to share with us, the viewers, their love for him
2367
01:58:11.699 --> 01:58:13.800
and help us get to know him better. I think
2368
01:58:13.819 --> 01:58:17.250
this was, you know, we praised the show, but it
2369
01:58:17.270 --> 01:58:20.750
almost felt like a privilege to see them share with us.
2370
01:58:22.270 --> 01:58:24.789
You know, it's cathartic for them, but yeah, I hadn't
2371
01:58:24.810 --> 01:58:26.810
used that word, but I felt like it was kind
2372
01:58:26.850 --> 01:58:29.430
of a privilege for us to share in their grief
2373
01:58:29.489 --> 01:59:06.409
and their celebration of it. Your time is valuable. Go
2374
01:59:06.430 --> 01:59:10.229
VIP and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined
2375
01:59:10.270 --> 01:59:14.979
listening experience. pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on a
2376
01:59:15.020 --> 01:59:18.439
commercial-free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you
2377
01:59:18.460 --> 01:59:21.359
can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of
2378
01:59:21.399 --> 01:59:24.310
shows by theme and also unlock nearly four decades of
2379
01:59:24.359 --> 01:59:30.250
archives and access our ad-free website with VIP-exclusive content. pwtorch.com
2380
01:59:30.289 --> 01:59:32.699
slash govip Your time is valuable, and that's one of
2381
01:59:32.720 --> 01:59:38.289
the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You
2382
01:59:38.310 --> 01:59:41.149
can participate in the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by
2383
01:59:41.390 --> 01:59:46.420
emailing your question or topic to wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com. You
2384
01:59:46.439 --> 01:59:48.739
can also participate in the Wade Keller Post Shows by
2385
01:59:48.819 --> 01:59:54.170
emailing wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com during or right after Raw, Dynamite,
2386
01:59:54.289 --> 01:59:56.550
or SmackDown. Let your voice, let your opinions be heard
2387
01:59:56.810 --> 02:00:00.439
on our shows via email, wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the
2388
02:00:00.460 --> 02:00:05.829
flagship and wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com for our post shows. It's
2389
02:00:05.930 --> 02:00:08.289
next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW
2390
02:00:08.350 --> 02:00:13.119
Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors,
2391
02:00:13.500 --> 02:00:17.800
no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news,
2392
02:00:18.020 --> 02:00:22.239
and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away
2393
02:00:22.340 --> 02:00:24.590
from the vacuous social media experience that I know many
2394
02:00:24.600 --> 02:00:27.510
of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes,
2395
02:00:27.569 --> 02:00:29.829
if not hours at a time, and settle in for
2396
02:00:30.050 --> 02:00:34.649
high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick
2397
02:00:34.670 --> 02:00:36.649
Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller
2398
02:00:36.710 --> 02:00:38.670
Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every
2399
02:00:38.750 --> 02:00:41.989
week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's
2400
02:00:42.069 --> 02:00:43.090
Nick to tell you more.
2401
02:00:43.210 --> 02:00:45.649
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
2402
02:00:45.670 --> 02:00:47.760
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
2403
02:00:47.810 --> 02:00:50.720
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
2404
02:00:50.800 --> 02:00:53.720
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
2405
02:00:53.880 --> 02:00:56.079
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
2406
02:00:56.100 --> 02:00:56.680
club in town.
2407
02:00:56.899 --> 02:00:58.680
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
2408
02:00:58.720 --> 02:01:03.050
life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
2409
02:01:03.319 --> 02:01:06.250
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
2410
02:01:06.270 --> 02:01:09.569
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
2411
02:01:09.710 --> 02:01:11.710
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
2412
02:01:11.729 --> 02:01:14.750
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
2413
02:01:14.770 --> 02:01:19.470
for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you know
2414
02:01:19.510 --> 02:01:22.869
that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your
2415
02:01:22.890 --> 02:01:26.890
favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go
2416
02:01:26.949 --> 02:01:32.369
to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
2417
02:01:32.390 --> 02:01:34.399
You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to
2418
02:01:34.420 --> 02:01:35.840
kick the tires a bit and see if you like
2419
02:01:35.859 --> 02:01:38.479
the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you
2420
02:01:38.500 --> 02:01:41.279
can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like
2421
02:01:41.300 --> 02:01:43.640
the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
2422
02:01:44.010 --> 02:01:47.010
our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup online. Again,
2423
02:01:47.270 --> 02:01:51.010
all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
2424
02:01:51.029 --> 02:01:54.430
you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
2425
02:01:54.449 --> 02:01:56.149
with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that
2426
02:01:56.189 --> 02:01:58.449
I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News
2427
02:01:58.520 --> 02:02:03.739
Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts
2428
02:02:03.760 --> 02:02:06.760
with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
2429
02:02:07.159 --> 02:02:11.579
Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync
2430
02:02:11.600 --> 02:02:14.340
it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
2431
02:02:14.819 --> 02:02:18.119
Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day
2432
02:02:18.199 --> 02:02:21.479
free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple
2433
02:02:21.500 --> 02:02:24.039
Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows
2434
02:02:24.060 --> 02:02:25.930
you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to
2435
02:02:25.939 --> 02:02:28.289
give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in
2436
02:02:28.329 --> 02:02:31.409
the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us
2437
02:02:31.569 --> 02:02:33.430
to others. Just look for a place to rate the
2438
02:02:33.449 --> 02:02:35.930
show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening
2439
02:02:35.970 --> 02:02:38.380
to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And
2440
02:02:38.420 --> 02:02:42.350
of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch
2441
02:02:42.380 --> 02:02:44.680
VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these
2442
02:02:44.720 --> 02:02:47.619
shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week,
2443
02:02:47.819 --> 02:02:50.800
but you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library
2444
02:02:50.840 --> 02:02:54.140
of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro
2445
02:02:54.159 --> 02:02:57.170
Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s,
2446
02:02:57.539 --> 02:03:00.739
along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro
2447
02:03:00.779 --> 02:03:03.630
radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews
2448
02:03:04.050 --> 02:03:07.210
with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s, and also our
2449
02:03:07.430 --> 02:03:10.229
podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's no larger...
2450
02:03:11.590 --> 02:03:15.579
longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
2451
02:03:15.640 --> 02:03:19.680
a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting.
2452
02:03:19.899 --> 02:03:23.520
Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
2453
02:03:23.560 --> 02:03:27.489
of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews,
2454
02:03:27.949 --> 02:03:32.649
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com
2455
02:03:32.750 --> 02:03:36.109
slash go VIP. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and
2456
02:03:36.130 --> 02:03:38.250
you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit
2457
02:03:38.270 --> 02:03:40.869
card or debit card. In one or two minutes from
2458
02:03:40.909 --> 02:03:42.729
right now, you can be a VIP member and diving
2459
02:03:42.770 --> 02:03:45.979
into our library, pwtorch.com slash govip.