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Hi there.
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Welcome to the Unseiling You podcast, where we break through the inner and outer ceilings that hold ambitious leaders back.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Natalie Luke, and today I'm joined by Dr.
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Abby Haverman.
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Abby went from living a picture perfect life to a night in jail.
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And you don't want to miss how she got there.
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It was a shocking turning point that revealed how unworthiness and self-betrayal were driving her life choices.
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In this conversation, Abby shows how to drop in, wake up, and rewire your nervous system to stop betraying yourself and start leading with authenticity.
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By the end of this episode, you'll know how to turn into your body as an antenna.
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Catch self-betrayal in the moment and recognize the early signs of burnout so that you can live with clarity and confidence.
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And since I know you may be listening on the go, I've created something special for you.
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When you get to your destination, head to the show notes and download the Burnout Beacon Cheat Sheet.
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This is designed to help you spot where you're leading from unworthiness or self-betrayal and reset before it spreads.
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This tool will help anchor in everything that you hear today.
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So, with that, let's dig in.
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Hi, Abby.
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Thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
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I really appreciate you being here.
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I am looking forward to this because I know I'm gonna learn so much.
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And I hope everybody out there also does as well.
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Oh, thanks for having me.
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You're welcome.
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We're gonna first start off talking about when the life that you're living isn't feeding you and you're not really willing to give it up yet.
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And for you, you had a white picket fence.
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It was perfect.
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The credentials, the career from the outside, everything looked perfect, but internally it didn't truly align.
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Can you take us back to that moment when you realized that the life you were living was actually built on unworthiness?
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Well, yeah, I mean, it looked good on the outside, but inside behind closed doors, not just behind the closed doors of my skin, but behind closed doors in general, it it was a hot mess.
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And I it didn't really I knew it was a hot mess, but the unworthy message didn't come to me until I actually spent a night in jail having been arrested.
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And so I was about to leave my uh now ex-husband, who had suffered with addiction and pain issues and all of these things.
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And we had this really uncharacteristic scuffle that had never happened before.
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But I was about to leave him the next day.
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He was particularly out of it, and I think he also was sick, he had pneumonia, and he shoved me and I slapped him, and I ended up being arrested for domestic violence, and I spent the night in jail.
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And it was through that night in jail that asking myself this question, how did I get here?
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Like I was a couples therapist, I was teaching couples therapy at the graduate level.
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Wow.
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I was so in tune to my unconscious thoughts.
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You know, I was in therapy, I had a consultant for all of my therapy practice, I was supervising therapists.
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I was all about the unconscious.
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I thought I had that sort of uncovered.
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Right.
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And here I was.
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And when as soon as I asked myself, you know, that question, I thought about all the things that were misaligned in this relationship and had always been misaligned in this relationship.
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And I heard this voice in my head, it said, Well, who else was gonna love you?
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And that's when I realized, like, holy cow, I've been driven around on a silent hybrid engine on this belief that I'm not worthy and all of my choices and all of my actions have been driven from that place.
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Wow.
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What a message.
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So the signs were there, physically, emotionally, possibly spiritually, that something was off before that crisis.
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Do you think most of us wait for a breakdown before we give ourselves permission to change or to even hear the message?
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Well, yeah, I mean, the signs are always there spiritually, first of all.
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First and foremost, that is always happening.
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But yeah, we change in two ways.
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We change from having a catechlismic thing happen to us, and we can actually say, like when there's been a big trauma, we can say that we are physiologically changed.
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Something happens in the brain and the body.
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And that's why we can always remember certain events.
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You can always remember the birth of your first child.
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You can remember where you were on 9-11.
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If you're as old as me, you can remember where you were when Elvis died, you know?
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And so that is one way that we change.
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And it is the way that most of us end up changing because the truth of the matter is we really do run on silent hybrid engines.
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That's just how the brain and the body work.
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I call it sophisticated sleepwalking.
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We look great, but we're really not as aware as we think we are.
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The other way you can change is on purpose, and that's, I think, the way that we're all moving toward and hoping more and more people are learning that.
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But I do think to answer your question that, yeah, the way most of us change is when we absolutely have to.
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Yeah.
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There's your back is against the wall.
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Yeah, 100%.
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But how can we change on purpose?
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How can we begin to trust those quieter signs before everything falls apart?
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Well, that's really a practice because we're taught, you know, I was taught in psychotherapy school, you know, that awareness is 50% of the problem.
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I remember growing up and being told, oh, well, you're, you know, you're 90% of the way there.
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You understand that something is not right.
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But that's really not true.
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Awareness is only 20% of change.
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And what we know from neuroscience now is that 80% of change comes from building mental muscle, from building the capacity to get your actions to align with your intentions and getting the whole system involved.
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And so it's a practice.
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And the way, the best way to do that is to become quiet, to find that ways to get quiet and still in yourself.
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But while you're getting quiet and still, you have to settle your nervous system down because lots of people can sit in meditation and their mind is just running, running, running.
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And that's not really doing much if we're getting super identified with the thoughts that we're having.
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You have to understand that your mind is a machine.
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Your ego mind is always running.
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And there's all kinds of things that it's always telling you and saying things to you.
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When you can get deeper into your body and you can settle your nervous system down, maybe through heart-focused breathing, or there's a number of different techniques, and develop that practice, over time, you're gonna begin to notice the signals.
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And you can even, if you want to go back and look at situations you've been in the past, your body knew before you knew that something wasn't right or that this was perfect for you.
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And so one thing you could do is review a decision that you made that really worked out well.
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And how did that feel in your body?
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And how much energy did you have around it?
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And what's a decision that you made that wasn't so good that did not work out well?
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And what was the energy in your body then?
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When I looked back on this, I knew 100%.
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Oh, I I knew I knew my wedding day I shouldn't marry this person.
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We weren't a good match.
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Wow.
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Huh.
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And going back to um one of the podcasts that I had with um Dr.
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Reeves, Erin Reeves, she talks about how there are women that are in these bad work relationships.
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And every time she works with these ladies, because they'll say, I didn't see it coming.
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I just didn't see it coming.
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And she'll say, But really?
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Did you not see it coming?
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Come on, did you?
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And they always say, you know what, I kind of did.
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Yeah.
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And we're really trained.
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I mean, listen, we can say we can see everything coming because we we just have repetitive relationships, you know, and there's many, many women who will get out of a marriage and they get in another marriage just like it.
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They lay somebody off of their business and then before they know it, they find someone else either in their business or somewhere elsewhere that's causing the same kind of problems.
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We can move to a new place.
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We can find all these external fixes, but really your life is a mirror of you.
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Your external world is a mirror of what's happening internally.
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And we get into situations, and if we are behaving the same, if we are being the same person, if we're firing the same thoughts, we're firing the same emotions, we're having the same behaviors, we're gonna just create more of the same.
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And so, yes, it's true that, you know, you can see it coming because but there's a certain amount of denial around it.
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But the real empowerment comes when you realize that it's you.
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It's it's it's you that is causing these things to happen over and over and over again.
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And that's why, you know, the name of my TED Talk is Women's Liberation is an inside job.
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Perfect.
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So let's talk about our body as an antenna.
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And I'm starting to think about my body as an antenna.
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But, you know, the thing is, is that I get so focused on my ambitions, my motivation, what I'm trying to do, so focused on the goal I'm pushing, striving, analyzing, thinking that I don't pay attention to the signals that my body's sending.
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How did your relationship with your body change after that night in jail?
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How did you use your body to help you guide your healing?
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Well, sadly, I don't think my relationship with my body did change after that night in jail.
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I think that came much, much, much later, right?
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I knew something had to change and I and I became a different person, certainly as it related to my love life in a different lot of different ways.
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But I didn't fully understand the the breakdown between my mind and my body because most of us really live from here up.
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So, you know, one question is like, well, what what is the motive behind your focus on drive, drive, drive, drive, drive?
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Like, what is causing you to do that?
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Do you have a sense?
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Yeah.
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And it's not a very I want to apologize, but I have to work on this.
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It is that I'll be happy when.
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Yes, yeah, don't apologize for that.
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That's the human condition.
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Yeah.
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So I'll be happy when this happens is a belief that the egoic mind tells us, right?
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It's a sure way to sabotage ourselves.
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And in fact, that is how we sabotage ourselves, right?
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So there's a number of reasons that we drive toward things that are for the vast majority of us when we're not really understanding how the brain and the body work as a machine.
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Like it's not intentional, that we're being driven by motives that are not authentic.
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And I actually have, I did a talk on this and I created a YouTube video on it about authenticity, it is not as easy as you think it is.
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Like we think we're being authentic.
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But because we're being driven around by that silent hybrid engine, there's often this voice that is saying, well, once I get to here, I can stop.
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Or the voice is saying, if I get this achievement, I'll be okay.
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If I have this enough.
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And that's not like I know a hundred percent.
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I don't even have to know you or know this to know about you that your goal in setting up this podcast and doing this for people was out of a true heart-led mission.
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You have a deep, you know, mission to help women and to bring information to them.
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And that comes from your heart.
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Like I know that because we don't do these things that way, right?
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But when the nervous system steps in and when the mind comes in and the ego comes in with all of its noise, this voice that's constantly talking to us, that essence nature of us gets covered up.
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And this happens all the time.
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It happens to all of us, right?
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And so when that happens, that very beautiful quality in you becomes an overachiever.
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It becomes this drive, drive, drive, drive, drive.
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And before you know it, and and this is something that happens a lot with people I work with.
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And I always reference once to this one client I have who, when I started meeting with her, you know, I said, Well, what do you, what's the goal?
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And she said, The best.
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I want my company to be the best at what we do.
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Yeah.
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And I knew that that couldn't have been right because I knew her tagline was to put a micro megaphone in front of people who do good.
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So someone who comes up with a tagline that is, I put a megaphone in front of people who do good, the goal was not to be the best.
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That wasn't the original goal.
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And it's never the original goal when as entrepreneurs, we're always starting with an idea of what we can bring to this world.
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It's inspired.
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But then life happens, right?
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And so what happens when we begin to understand how to manage the brain and body and be a good mechanic of this machine and settle it down over and over again is naturally, you know, she then came up with just the most beautiful mission that she didn't think about at all.
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It literally came through her that was aligned with really what it was always about, right?
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It was just under stress.
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And then we have, you know, the shame.
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Like you said, well, I have to apologize, I need to work on this.
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There's no shame.
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There's no shame or judgment in what the mind does to us, it does it to all of us.
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And the more we judge ourselves about it, the harder it is to unwind the habit.
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Yeah.
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Makes sense.
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So how does our body act as an antenna for us to help us bring ourselves to the point where, hey, ego is getting in the way.
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We need to get ourselves centered and to just centered back to back to who we are.
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Well, the body is always sending you signals, right?
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It's just that we're not looking in the body, we're not paying attention to the body.
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So, you know, whatever is ailing you, right?
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There's a metaphor usually for everything that's going on.
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Is there tension in your neck?
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Is there a pit in your stomach?
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Is there, are you having some kind of medical problem?
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Is there, you know, like I have um psoriasis and I've had it for years, you know, and it flares when I'm stressed, you know, and skin problems is basically a sign that your body is rejecting itself.
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So talk about self-judgment, you know, talk about like I'm not enoughness, you know.
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And when we live for decades, you know, as I have and you have, you know, and we wire in these beliefs, they're harder to undo, but the body is always telling you.
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So a simple body scan, you know, a simple like just checking out like, okay, is my jaw clenched?
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Do I have a furrow in my brow?
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Am I smiling?
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Am I frowning?
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These are it's very, you can't your body, you can't get around your body.
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Like if you I always tell my kids, if they're eating something that they don't like, smile.
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Because you can't, you can't override that.
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If you're feeling, think about how you're sitting, right?
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Like sometimes I'll get on a call with someone and they'll be like this, or they'll be like this leaning back or yeah, slowly.
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Think about if you're feeling empowered, if you're feeling good, if you're feeling inspired and energized, you're up like this.
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Yeah.
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So if you ever find yourself, you know, really just kind of kicking yourself around the kitchen or you know, and you're stuck in your head, gift your body.
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And your mind will follow what your body is doing.
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Nice.
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Nice.
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Now you talk about this silent engine that's been driving you.
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It's almost like an unconscious self-um betrayal.
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And that that phrase hits me.
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And many of us are walking around with these thoughts, and we're abandoning ourselves.
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What does self-betrayal look like in everyday life?
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And how do we begin to catch it in real time?
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So self-betrayal can can look external or it can be internal.
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It can be what you're saying to yourself inside, it can be the shame that you're beating yourself up with, it can be saying yes when you mean no, it can be overfunctioning, it can be uh when you when you're irritable or you're lashing out at other people.
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You know, these are all forms of self-betrayal or all signs.
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I shouldn't say it that way.
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I just say these are signs that you are betraying yourself.
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And I have another YouTube video that I think is like five signs of self-betrayal because you can tell by the way that you feel, how much energy you have, how your mood is, what state of being you're in, whether or not you have been betraying yourself.
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And so in real time, it looks very much like catching yourself in the moment that you're beating yourself up, or catching yourself in the moment that you're about to say yes when really you need to say no.
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And you will feel that in your gut.
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If you start paying attention, there's a place, usually it's in either your second or third center, your solar plexus or your stomach, that when someone's asking you something to do something that doesn't feel aligned with you or that you don't have the time to do, or you just don't want to do, just because you just don't feel like it, there's a cringe, right?
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There's a tinge in your stomach.
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And when you override that, you're headed for self-betrayal.
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And when you, for example, say yes when you mean no, you will be resentful.
00:20:04.339 --> 00:20:08.180
So if you're walking around with resentment, it's because you betrayed yourself.
00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:12.339
Somehow I really did not want to play mixed doubles on Friday.
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:13.859
And I said yes.
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:18.660
I really wanted to be home exactly with my family.
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:19.140
Yeah.
00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:22.420
And I freaking lost that match so bad.
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:23.620
It was so not fun.
00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:24.019
Right.
00:20:24.099 --> 00:20:25.220
And so what made you say yes?
00:20:25.460 --> 00:20:29.700
Well, I felt like I was betraying my friend, but I was really betraying myself.
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:30.339
Yes.
00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:31.700
That's exactly it.
00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:33.220
And that's the unconscious piece.
00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:34.819
That's the hybrid engine.
00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:36.259
I will let someone down.
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:37.700
I am betraying them.
00:20:37.940 --> 00:20:40.660
And we've been told that that's selfish.
00:20:40.819 --> 00:20:44.900
I shouldn't say no because they might want this, and I should not betray you.
00:20:44.980 --> 00:20:46.980
I should betray myself instead.
00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:51.059
That's a very damaging teaching that we've all been taught.
00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:56.099
And until we learn to unwind that, there's going to continue to be trouble in our inner world.
00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:59.539
Trouble in our inner world is going to be reflected in our outer world.
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.420
So, how do you go about unwinding that?
00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.539
Well, so the easiest way is to catch yourself, right?
00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:10.819
So I always tell a story about when I was years and years ago, I was a step parent.
00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:14.900
And step-parenting is a, is, I don't know if you're a step parent, but it's a it's a challenging job.
00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:23.140
And I got all worked up about my stepson at the time was eating in the living room when I had said like a thousand times not to do that, you know, right?
00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:30.660
And my son was sitting there with him, and then my husband was right in between them, even though he knew that I had right.
00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:38.740
And so now my mind is going, my nervous system is completely off the rails because my mind is like, he knew what I said to try and I've told this kid a thousand times.
00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:40.579
No one respects me in this house.
00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:42.819
Like everything is just going haywire, right?
00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:50.180
And because I'm on this journey and I've been doing this work, and I know what happens when I let that negativity out of my mouth.
00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:53.700
It blows the house up, and then all of a sudden I'm the bad guy, right?
00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:55.700
And it's just a disaster.
00:21:56.019 --> 00:21:59.140
And so I shoved myself in my bedroom.
00:21:59.220 --> 00:22:04.579
And at the time I called my Al-Anon sponsor, which is the program for family members of alcoholics.
00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:09.700
Um, that, you know, I didn't have an active alcoholic in my life at that time, but those lessons die hard.
00:22:09.859 --> 00:22:12.339
We grow up that way, and that's a lifelong program.
00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:16.660
And, you know, she said, your serenity is the only emergency.
00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:36.660
And I use that phrase very often because if we can begin to divert our attention from what's happening in our outer world to what's happening in our inner world and realize that the state of my nervous system is the most important thing in this moment, then all of the things that follow are going to be a lot easier.
00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.940
Because the truth of the matter is, is that that wasn't an emergency.
00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:43.700
The emergency was how I was feeling inside myself.
00:22:44.259 --> 00:22:45.620
And my goal, right?
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:52.980
My aim, what I'm here, what I was on this earth for was not to make sure that there isn't orange goldfish dush on my couch.
00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:54.339
That's not my goal.
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:01.700
My goal was to be, you know, the best mom and stepmom I could be, to have harmony in our household, to have all these things, right?
00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:04.660
But the ego will say, that's not the goal.
00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:05.940
You're being disrespected.
00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:07.140
You can't stand for this.
00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:08.819
Don't let yourself get walked on.
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:09.460
Absolutely.
00:23:09.620 --> 00:23:10.099
I hear you.
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:10.819
Yeah.
00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:24.500
So you got the the you realize what your mission was, what you really authentically who you were trying to be, what your intent was, and realize, hey, the issue is me trying to get myself centered.
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.339
But how did you handle it after that?
00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.140
What did you do?
00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:30.259
Well, at that time, I was not as adept, you know, calm myself down.
00:23:30.339 --> 00:23:31.220
So it took a long time.
00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:35.460
It was really an act of will to be like, I am, I'm gonna eat this negativity.
00:23:35.620 --> 00:23:38.259
I am not going to let it out of my mouth.
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:47.700
And I honestly, I can't remember actually if I actually did or not, because that's when I remember it really landing with me, like, oh, we are really addicted to our emotions.
00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:49.620
I am really addicted to anger.
00:23:49.700 --> 00:23:52.420
And that's another thing about how emotions work in the body.
00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:56.660
Because I remember thinking, there is no way I'm not gonna go out there and rip my husband's face off.
00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:57.539
Like, there's just no way.
00:23:57.700 --> 00:23:59.460
I cannot stop myself, you know?
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:07.779
And anybody who has ever had that or, you know, the addiction to like when someone really wrongs you and you have to go gossip about it, right?
00:24:07.940 --> 00:24:08.819
That's an addiction.
00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:13.299
So breaking that is, you know, something that you have to pay attention to.
00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.819
So at the time, I spoke to my sponsor for I don't even know how long.
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:18.259
And then I went for a drive.
00:24:18.339 --> 00:24:42.819
Like I drove all around the town because I was like, whatever happens, I I need to not show up this way in this moment, because that is in direct opposition to everything I'm trying to create in my life and who I am trying to become, which is more of me, more of my authentic me, more of my essence me, less of my ego me.
00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:43.299
Right.
00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:44.579
Thank you for sharing that.
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:52.019
So you have a chorus called From Hot Mess to Harmony, which goes straight along with this story.
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:52.900
Yes.
00:24:53.299 --> 00:24:57.539
And it's a great title because that's how many of us feel on the inside.
00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:11.460
Like I can totally relate to the whole eating on the couch, although my triggers might be something different, but the feeling of it, like the feeling of you're not respecting me, a hundred percent relate to it.
00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:16.420
And even when we're like per you know, we're doing so great on the outside.
00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:22.180
How do you define alignment and what does it feel like when you're finally in it?
00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:23.059
It's very simple.
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:24.339
It feels like freedom.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:46.980
When you are in alignment and you are in harmony with yourself, because you've made the hard choices to not betray yourself, to not throw yourself under the bus, to not give in to when the ego mind is telling you that you're being disrespected or all of these things, when you get back to that very still place inside of yourself, yeah, that you know, you know you, you know.
00:25:47.059 --> 00:25:47.380
Yeah.
00:25:47.620 --> 00:25:53.140
And it's not about the past and what you are unconsciously projecting onto other people.
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:55.220
And it doesn't mean that you let people walk on you.
00:25:55.299 --> 00:25:56.500
It doesn't mean that.
00:25:56.660 --> 00:26:03.059
There's if if someone is doing something that you don't like, you know, sometimes there's a place to say that.
00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:10.980
Very, very often, once you settle yourself down and you realize that whatever they were doing has really nothing to do with you, you're not being disrespected at all.
00:26:11.059 --> 00:26:15.700
They're just going about the world being themselves, you realize I don't have to say anything, right?
00:26:15.940 --> 00:26:26.660
But if someone is doing something that doesn't work for you and you get quiet enough, you know, over a period of time to realize, like, yeah, like this is who this person is and it doesn't work for me.
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:31.779
You know, then then that's a time where maybe you say something or you may make a decision.
00:26:32.019 --> 00:26:48.660
But when you get so aligned because you've done that work of holding yourself accountable to who am I being, not what am I doing, who am I being, then the anxiety around hurting someone else's feelings goes away, you know, because you've managed that, because you've made a decision to manage it.
00:26:48.819 --> 00:27:01.220
You've said, I'm gonna choose to be anxious right now about my friend feeling that she betrayed me, as opposed to feeling exhausted and resentful later because I betrayed myself by going to play tennis, right?
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:11.539
So you've done that work and your decisions come not from thinking, they come from a deeper place inside yourself, a place that just knows this is what I need to do here.
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:16.900
And it might not be popular, might not be popular, but it's it's in alignment.
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:20.579
There's nothing inside you that feels at odds with itself.
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:32.980
So as you've made this connection and you were helping other people make this connection, is there a moment when you followed your intuition even when it didn't make logical sense?
00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:34.259
And what happened?
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:34.900
Well, yeah.
00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.539
So I I started my career as a psychotherapist.
00:27:37.620 --> 00:27:45.620
And then when I got divorced and I got remarried, I ended up working with my husband, my second husband, in his financial firm.
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.180
And I worked with him for 12 years and it was great.
00:27:48.339 --> 00:27:54.420
I mean, we we built the business and, you know, it gave us a lot of flexibility and a lot of really great things came out of it.
00:27:54.500 --> 00:28:00.259
But there came a time, probably four years before I stopped, that something was just not right.
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:01.859
And I didn't know what it was.
00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:04.660
I kept thinking, well, maybe I need to get a hobby.
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:09.140
You know, he paid, played softball a lot, and maybe I need to join a chorus.
00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:10.900
And I joined a chorus for a couple of years.
00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:12.420
Maybe I need to start writing.
00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:14.500
And so I started writing and I did all these things.
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:18.819
And ultimately, I decided that I needed to go back to my roots.
00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:20.420
I didn't want to go back to psychotherapy.
00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:22.740
I'd learned too much about neuroscience at that point in time.
00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:28.099
I didn't like that model, but I had all that experience and that knowledge that I bring to my work now.
00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:33.940
And I wanted to go back into, I wanted to talk to women, but not about money.
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:38.819
And it didn't really make a lot of sense because we had a lot of freedom in our lives.
00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.140
We had a great business, we worked great together.
00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:46.660
You know, it was just a whole different venture, but that's how I wound up where I am today.
00:28:46.819 --> 00:28:51.299
And it wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitely so much more in alignment.
00:28:51.620 --> 00:28:57.059
So this season is all about building the right community around us.
00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:07.299
You know, of course, we're starting with authenticity, and that's why I have you on this on the podcast now, so that we can really talk about tuning in and knowing ourselves.
00:29:07.460 --> 00:29:12.259
And we can't connect authentically with others if we're not rooted in ourselves first.
00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:23.140
So, how does embodiment knowing your body help us show up more fully, not just for ourselves, but in our relationship, in our work?
00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:32.339
So, as I was saying earlier, it's actually not as easy to be authentic as we thought because the ego is running the show so much of the time.
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:32.900
Yeah.
00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:40.819
So when you do get in your body and you are able to see what is misaligned, then you can show more up more authentically.
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:48.980
So, for example, when we go and do something that someone wants us to do because we're afraid that we're gonna betray them or upset them, is that authentic?
00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:50.579
It's not authentic, right?
00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:53.940
Like we're there in body, but we're not there in spirit.
00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:55.299
We don't want to be there, right?
00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:55.940
That's not authentic.
00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:02.579
It would be much more authentic to say, geez, I'd love to, thanks so much, but you know, it's it's I I really don't want you all right for me, right?
00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:16.019
Like when we show up to a, I do this one all the time because my ego, you know, likes to be funny and likes to make people laugh and is very concerned about whether or not people like me and all of these things.
00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:24.180
And so when I go to dinner parties or things like that, you know, I kind of check myself at the door and say, you know what?
00:30:24.339 --> 00:30:27.059
Like, I'm really glad all your ego parts are here.
00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:29.620
You helped me a lot in my life, you've gotten me very far.
00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:37.940
I'd like for you to stay at the door because today, tonight, when I say something, when something comes out of my mouth, it's gonna be because it's iterative to this conversation.
00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:44.579
It's not because I think I need to teach somebody something or I need somebody to know how much I know or I need somebody to laugh or, you know, whatever.
00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:48.019
It's because, and it might be funny, whatever comes out, right?
00:30:48.180 --> 00:31:01.380
But it's it's not gonna be driven by these egoic demands of wanting to be seen, wanting to be heard, wanting to belong, you know, not feeling worthy enough, all of these things is not gonna be driven by that.
00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:10.019
And when you start to really pay attention to what is the motive, and this is a whole, actually, this is a whole segment of the Hot Nest to Harmony class.
00:31:10.099 --> 00:31:15.539
It's just a little mini class, but there's one of the videos that's totally devoted to your motive.
00:31:15.859 --> 00:31:20.420
When you get curious about your motive, not shaming yourself about your motive because we all have them.
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:28.019
We've evolved this way, but curious about it and are able to identify it, you're gonna show up naturally more authentically.
00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:32.339
You're gonna start to attract the people to you that are more in line.
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:39.620
And you're also going to show up in a way that the people who are not a good authentic match just aren't gonna be interested.
00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:43.779
You know, I moved to a new community not that long ago, several years ago, I guess now.
00:31:43.940 --> 00:31:48.660
And I there was all kinds of friends I made, you know, but there was not a match there.
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.460
It just wasn't a match, you know?
00:31:51.620 --> 00:31:55.539
And so it was more about like, how do I honor myself?
00:31:55.700 --> 00:32:00.019
You know, how do I find the community that I'm looking for?
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:10.660
And that's by being more of who I am and less worrying about how I'm gonna find the community, who likes me, who will accept me, who will have me.
00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:11.059
Yeah.
00:32:11.299 --> 00:32:13.059
Authentic community is really something.
00:32:13.299 --> 00:32:13.700
Yeah.
00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:15.700
Okay, we're gonna take that to heart.
00:32:15.859 --> 00:32:18.339
We're gonna go into the insider questions now.
00:32:18.500 --> 00:32:28.980
But before we go into the insider questions, I want to let the audience know that I will have Abby's contact information in the notes if you want to get a hold of her.
00:32:29.059 --> 00:32:33.779
And I'm hopefully gonna have Abby in the Unsealing You community.
00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:35.859
So you can reach out to Abby.
00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:39.700
I'm sure that you're super curious about this course.
00:32:39.940 --> 00:32:48.259
It sounds really great and something that gets us to where we want to be when we network with others more authentic.
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:54.180
Is there anything that you want to say to the audience before we get into the insider group questions?
00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:58.420
I would say that the goal here is to become more of you.
00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:03.140
And so I'm developing some new curriculum now, and I call it the soul signal.
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:06.259
And it's all about moving from performance to presence.
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:14.900
And when you are vibrating at your soul signal, which is just the deepest part of you, the part that knows that goes from overthinking to inner knowing.
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:18.259
When you vibrate there, meaningful success will find you.
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:23.940
And when you don't vibrate there, you may find success, but you're not gonna be happy.
00:33:24.099 --> 00:33:27.779
You're gonna be exhausted, and it's it's not gonna be meaningful.
00:33:28.099 --> 00:33:32.339
So when that comes out, please tell me so I can let everybody else know about it.
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:33.620
I will for sure.
00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:34.259
Okay.
00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:39.859
And they can find all this kind of stuff on my YouTube channel too, on my podcast, The Intuition Incubator.
00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:43.700
I do a Monday muse every Monday, and it's like a 10-minute little lesson.
00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:45.299
Awesome, fantastic.
00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:49.460
Well, once again, I want to thank you so much for being on Unsealing You.
00:33:49.779 --> 00:33:53.380
So glad that I met you through another guest.
00:33:53.539 --> 00:33:53.859
Yeah.
00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:57.539
And I um am looking forward to this being out there.
00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:58.420
Thank you so much.
00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:00.180
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.
00:34:00.259 --> 00:34:01.539
I really appreciate it, Natalie.
00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:03.940
Thank you so much for joining me and Dr.
00:34:04.099 --> 00:34:05.620
Abby Haberman today.
00:34:05.779 --> 00:34:14.259
If her story resonated, remember, your body is your guide, and unworthiness or burnout do not have to run the show.
00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:21.859
When you stop betraying yourself, you open the door to authentic leadership and a more fulfilling life.
00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:31.139
Don't forget, I've created the Burnout Beacon cheat sheet to help you catch burnout early and reset it before it spreads.
00:34:31.299 --> 00:34:33.460
You'll find the link in today's show notes.
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:39.940
And if you're ready to go deeper alongside a supportive community, come join us inside the Unseiling Zone.
00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:46.980
Until next time, take radical responsibility for your life and watch the ripple effect unfold.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.480
Hi there.
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:10.640
Welcome to the Unseiling You podcast, where we break through the inner and outer ceilings that hold ambitious leaders back.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:12.000
I'm your host, Dr.
00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:14.960
Natalie Luke, and today I'm joined by Dr.
00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:16.240
Abby Haverman.
00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:22.799
Abby went from living a picture perfect life to a night in jail.
00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.960
And you don't want to miss how she got there.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:33.920
It was a shocking turning point that revealed how unworthiness and self-betrayal were driving her life choices.
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:46.640
In this conversation, Abby shows how to drop in, wake up, and rewire your nervous system to stop betraying yourself and start leading with authenticity.
00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:53.039
By the end of this episode, you'll know how to turn into your body as an antenna.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:02:03.359
Catch self-betrayal in the moment and recognize the early signs of burnout so that you can live with clarity and confidence.
00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:08.960
And since I know you may be listening on the go, I've created something special for you.
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:15.919
When you get to your destination, head to the show notes and download the Burnout Beacon Cheat Sheet.
00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:24.319
This is designed to help you spot where you're leading from unworthiness or self-betrayal and reset before it spreads.
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:28.879
This tool will help anchor in everything that you hear today.
00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.919
So, with that, let's dig in.
00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:33.120
Hi, Abby.
00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.599
Thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.759
I really appreciate you being here.
00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.960
I am looking forward to this because I know I'm gonna learn so much.
00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:48.640
And I hope everybody out there also does as well.
00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:49.840
Oh, thanks for having me.
00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:51.280
You're welcome.
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:59.599
We're gonna first start off talking about when the life that you're living isn't feeding you and you're not really willing to give it up yet.
00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.319
And for you, you had a white picket fence.
00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.280
It was perfect.
00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:11.120
The credentials, the career from the outside, everything looked perfect, but internally it didn't truly align.
00:03:11.359 --> 00:03:17.840
Can you take us back to that moment when you realized that the life you were living was actually built on unworthiness?
00:03:18.079 --> 00:03:29.120
Well, yeah, I mean, it looked good on the outside, but inside behind closed doors, not just behind the closed doors of my skin, but behind closed doors in general, it it was a hot mess.
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And I it didn't really I knew it was a hot mess, but the unworthy message didn't come to me until I actually spent a night in jail having been arrested.
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And so I was about to leave my uh now ex-husband, who had suffered with addiction and pain issues and all of these things.
00:03:48.799 --> 00:03:53.840
And we had this really uncharacteristic scuffle that had never happened before.
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But I was about to leave him the next day.
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He was particularly out of it, and I think he also was sick, he had pneumonia, and he shoved me and I slapped him, and I ended up being arrested for domestic violence, and I spent the night in jail.
00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:13.199
And it was through that night in jail that asking myself this question, how did I get here?
00:04:13.359 --> 00:04:17.120
Like I was a couples therapist, I was teaching couples therapy at the graduate level.
00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:17.840
Wow.
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:21.199
I was so in tune to my unconscious thoughts.
00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:26.240
You know, I was in therapy, I had a consultant for all of my therapy practice, I was supervising therapists.
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I was all about the unconscious.
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I thought I had that sort of uncovered.
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Right.
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And here I was.
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And when as soon as I asked myself, you know, that question, I thought about all the things that were misaligned in this relationship and had always been misaligned in this relationship.
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And I heard this voice in my head, it said, Well, who else was gonna love you?
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And that's when I realized, like, holy cow, I've been driven around on a silent hybrid engine on this belief that I'm not worthy and all of my choices and all of my actions have been driven from that place.
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Wow.
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What a message.
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So the signs were there, physically, emotionally, possibly spiritually, that something was off before that crisis.
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Do you think most of us wait for a breakdown before we give ourselves permission to change or to even hear the message?
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Well, yeah, I mean, the signs are always there spiritually, first of all.
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First and foremost, that is always happening.
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But yeah, we change in two ways.
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We change from having a catechlismic thing happen to us, and we can actually say, like when there's been a big trauma, we can say that we are physiologically changed.
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Something happens in the brain and the body.
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And that's why we can always remember certain events.
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You can always remember the birth of your first child.
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You can remember where you were on 9-11.
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If you're as old as me, you can remember where you were when Elvis died, you know?
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And so that is one way that we change.
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And it is the way that most of us end up changing because the truth of the matter is we really do run on silent hybrid engines.
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That's just how the brain and the body work.
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I call it sophisticated sleepwalking.
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We look great, but we're really not as aware as we think we are.
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The other way you can change is on purpose, and that's, I think, the way that we're all moving toward and hoping more and more people are learning that.
00:06:08.960 --> 00:06:14.560
But I do think to answer your question that, yeah, the way most of us change is when we absolutely have to.
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Yeah.
00:06:15.280 --> 00:06:17.439
There's your back is against the wall.
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Yeah, 100%.
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But how can we change on purpose?
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How can we begin to trust those quieter signs before everything falls apart?
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Well, that's really a practice because we're taught, you know, I was taught in psychotherapy school, you know, that awareness is 50% of the problem.
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I remember growing up and being told, oh, well, you're, you know, you're 90% of the way there.
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You understand that something is not right.
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But that's really not true.
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Awareness is only 20% of change.
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And what we know from neuroscience now is that 80% of change comes from building mental muscle, from building the capacity to get your actions to align with your intentions and getting the whole system involved.
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:04.960
And so it's a practice.
00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:13.920
And the way, the best way to do that is to become quiet, to find that ways to get quiet and still in yourself.
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But while you're getting quiet and still, you have to settle your nervous system down because lots of people can sit in meditation and their mind is just running, running, running.
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And that's not really doing much if we're getting super identified with the thoughts that we're having.
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You have to understand that your mind is a machine.
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Your ego mind is always running.
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And there's all kinds of things that it's always telling you and saying things to you.
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When you can get deeper into your body and you can settle your nervous system down, maybe through heart-focused breathing, or there's a number of different techniques, and develop that practice, over time, you're gonna begin to notice the signals.
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And you can even, if you want to go back and look at situations you've been in the past, your body knew before you knew that something wasn't right or that this was perfect for you.
00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:09.600
And so one thing you could do is review a decision that you made that really worked out well.
00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:11.600
And how did that feel in your body?
00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:13.760
And how much energy did you have around it?
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And what's a decision that you made that wasn't so good that did not work out well?
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And what was the energy in your body then?
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When I looked back on this, I knew 100%.
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Oh, I I knew I knew my wedding day I shouldn't marry this person.
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We weren't a good match.
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Wow.
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Huh.
00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:33.759
And going back to um one of the podcasts that I had with um Dr.
00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.360
Reeves, Erin Reeves, she talks about how there are women that are in these bad work relationships.
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.679
And every time she works with these ladies, because they'll say, I didn't see it coming.
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I just didn't see it coming.
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And she'll say, But really?
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Did you not see it coming?
00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:52.639
Come on, did you?
00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:55.919
And they always say, you know what, I kind of did.
00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:56.399
Yeah.
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And we're really trained.
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I mean, listen, we can say we can see everything coming because we we just have repetitive relationships, you know, and there's many, many women who will get out of a marriage and they get in another marriage just like it.
00:10:51.620 --> 00:11:00.579
They lay somebody off of their business and then before they know it, they find someone else either in their business or somewhere elsewhere that's causing the same kind of problems.
00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:02.340
We can move to a new place.
00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:07.139
We can find all these external fixes, but really your life is a mirror of you.
00:11:07.299 --> 00:11:10.419
Your external world is a mirror of what's happening internally.
00:11:10.579 --> 00:11:24.100
And we get into situations, and if we are behaving the same, if we are being the same person, if we're firing the same thoughts, we're firing the same emotions, we're having the same behaviors, we're gonna just create more of the same.
00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:31.220
And so, yes, it's true that, you know, you can see it coming because but there's a certain amount of denial around it.
00:11:31.379 --> 00:11:35.620
But the real empowerment comes when you realize that it's you.
00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:41.060
It's it's it's you that is causing these things to happen over and over and over again.
00:11:41.139 --> 00:11:45.460
And that's why, you know, the name of my TED Talk is Women's Liberation is an inside job.
00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:46.340
Perfect.
00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:50.340
So let's talk about our body as an antenna.
00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:53.460
And I'm starting to think about my body as an antenna.
00:11:53.620 --> 00:12:13.139
But, you know, the thing is, is that I get so focused on my ambitions, my motivation, what I'm trying to do, so focused on the goal I'm pushing, striving, analyzing, thinking that I don't pay attention to the signals that my body's sending.
00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:19.299
How did your relationship with your body change after that night in jail?
00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:22.580
How did you use your body to help you guide your healing?
00:12:22.820 --> 00:12:26.180
Well, sadly, I don't think my relationship with my body did change after that night in jail.
00:12:26.259 --> 00:12:28.659
I think that came much, much, much later, right?
00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:35.060
I knew something had to change and I and I became a different person, certainly as it related to my love life in a different lot of different ways.
00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:43.220
But I didn't fully understand the the breakdown between my mind and my body because most of us really live from here up.
00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:50.820
So, you know, one question is like, well, what what is the motive behind your focus on drive, drive, drive, drive, drive?
00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:53.779
Like, what is causing you to do that?
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:54.740
Do you have a sense?
00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:55.220
Yeah.
00:12:55.379 --> 00:13:01.460
And it's not a very I want to apologize, but I have to work on this.
00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:04.740
It is that I'll be happy when.
00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:06.899
Yes, yeah, don't apologize for that.
00:13:07.060 --> 00:13:08.580
That's the human condition.
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:09.139
Yeah.
00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:14.340
So I'll be happy when this happens is a belief that the egoic mind tells us, right?
00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:16.580
It's a sure way to sabotage ourselves.
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:19.139
And in fact, that is how we sabotage ourselves, right?
00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:30.340
So there's a number of reasons that we drive toward things that are for the vast majority of us when we're not really understanding how the brain and the body work as a machine.
00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:36.740
Like it's not intentional, that we're being driven by motives that are not authentic.
00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:44.580
And I actually have, I did a talk on this and I created a YouTube video on it about authenticity, it is not as easy as you think it is.
00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:46.340
Like we think we're being authentic.
00:13:47.060 --> 00:13:53.539
But because we're being driven around by that silent hybrid engine, there's often this voice that is saying, well, once I get to here, I can stop.
00:13:53.620 --> 00:13:57.940
Or the voice is saying, if I get this achievement, I'll be okay.
00:13:58.180 --> 00:13:59.779
If I have this enough.
00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:02.740
And that's not like I know a hundred percent.
00:14:02.899 --> 00:14:16.180
I don't even have to know you or know this to know about you that your goal in setting up this podcast and doing this for people was out of a true heart-led mission.
00:14:16.580 --> 00:14:22.899
You have a deep, you know, mission to help women and to bring information to them.
00:14:23.060 --> 00:14:24.419
And that comes from your heart.
00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:28.580
Like I know that because we don't do these things that way, right?
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:41.940
But when the nervous system steps in and when the mind comes in and the ego comes in with all of its noise, this voice that's constantly talking to us, that essence nature of us gets covered up.
00:14:42.019 --> 00:14:43.220
And this happens all the time.
00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:44.820
It happens to all of us, right?
00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:50.980
And so when that happens, that very beautiful quality in you becomes an overachiever.
00:14:51.060 --> 00:14:53.940
It becomes this drive, drive, drive, drive, drive.
00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:58.340
And before you know it, and and this is something that happens a lot with people I work with.
00:14:58.419 --> 00:15:05.379
And I always reference once to this one client I have who, when I started meeting with her, you know, I said, Well, what do you, what's the goal?
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:06.259
And she said, The best.
00:15:06.340 --> 00:15:08.180
I want my company to be the best at what we do.
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:08.500
Yeah.
00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:15.379
And I knew that that couldn't have been right because I knew her tagline was to put a micro megaphone in front of people who do good.
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:22.019
So someone who comes up with a tagline that is, I put a megaphone in front of people who do good, the goal was not to be the best.
00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:23.299
That wasn't the original goal.
00:15:23.379 --> 00:15:29.860
And it's never the original goal when as entrepreneurs, we're always starting with an idea of what we can bring to this world.
00:15:30.019 --> 00:15:30.980
It's inspired.
00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:33.220
But then life happens, right?
00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:48.259
And so what happens when we begin to understand how to manage the brain and body and be a good mechanic of this machine and settle it down over and over again is naturally, you know, she then came up with just the most beautiful mission that she didn't think about at all.
00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:53.940
It literally came through her that was aligned with really what it was always about, right?
00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:55.539
It was just under stress.
00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:57.299
And then we have, you know, the shame.
00:15:57.379 --> 00:16:00.180
Like you said, well, I have to apologize, I need to work on this.
00:16:00.340 --> 00:16:01.220
There's no shame.
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:06.740
There's no shame or judgment in what the mind does to us, it does it to all of us.
00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:12.659
And the more we judge ourselves about it, the harder it is to unwind the habit.
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:13.139
Yeah.
00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:13.940
Makes sense.
00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:23.860
So how does our body act as an antenna for us to help us bring ourselves to the point where, hey, ego is getting in the way.
00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:30.340
We need to get ourselves centered and to just centered back to back to who we are.
00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:34.580
Well, the body is always sending you signals, right?
00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:37.779
It's just that we're not looking in the body, we're not paying attention to the body.
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.060
So, you know, whatever is ailing you, right?
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:43.379
There's a metaphor usually for everything that's going on.
00:16:43.460 --> 00:16:44.580
Is there tension in your neck?
00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:46.180
Is there a pit in your stomach?
00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:49.139
Is there, are you having some kind of medical problem?
00:16:49.539 --> 00:17:03.299
Is there, you know, like I have um psoriasis and I've had it for years, you know, and it flares when I'm stressed, you know, and skin problems is basically a sign that your body is rejecting itself.
00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:08.980
So talk about self-judgment, you know, talk about like I'm not enoughness, you know.
00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:20.100
And when we live for decades, you know, as I have and you have, you know, and we wire in these beliefs, they're harder to undo, but the body is always telling you.
00:17:20.259 --> 00:17:26.580
So a simple body scan, you know, a simple like just checking out like, okay, is my jaw clenched?
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:29.060
Do I have a furrow in my brow?
00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:29.940
Am I smiling?
00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:30.740
Am I frowning?
00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:35.539
These are it's very, you can't your body, you can't get around your body.
00:17:35.620 --> 00:17:38.820
Like if you I always tell my kids, if they're eating something that they don't like, smile.
00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:42.100
Because you can't, you can't override that.
00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:45.140
If you're feeling, think about how you're sitting, right?
00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:53.940
Like sometimes I'll get on a call with someone and they'll be like this, or they'll be like this leaning back or yeah, slowly.
00:17:54.820 --> 00:18:00.180
Think about if you're feeling empowered, if you're feeling good, if you're feeling inspired and energized, you're up like this.
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:00.740
Yeah.
00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:10.019
So if you ever find yourself, you know, really just kind of kicking yourself around the kitchen or you know, and you're stuck in your head, gift your body.
00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:15.779
And your mind will follow what your body is doing.
00:18:16.100 --> 00:18:16.660
Nice.
00:18:16.820 --> 00:18:17.140
Nice.
00:18:17.620 --> 00:18:20.980
Now you talk about this silent engine that's been driving you.
00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:23.779
It's almost like an unconscious self-um betrayal.
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.420
And that that phrase hits me.
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:31.940
And many of us are walking around with these thoughts, and we're abandoning ourselves.
00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:35.060
What does self-betrayal look like in everyday life?
00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:37.700
And how do we begin to catch it in real time?
00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:42.340
So self-betrayal can can look external or it can be internal.
00:18:42.420 --> 00:19:00.500
It can be what you're saying to yourself inside, it can be the shame that you're beating yourself up with, it can be saying yes when you mean no, it can be overfunctioning, it can be uh when you when you're irritable or you're lashing out at other people.
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:04.980
You know, these are all forms of self-betrayal or all signs.
00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:05.860
I shouldn't say it that way.
00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.820
I just say these are signs that you are betraying yourself.
00:19:08.900 --> 00:19:22.740
And I have another YouTube video that I think is like five signs of self-betrayal because you can tell by the way that you feel, how much energy you have, how your mood is, what state of being you're in, whether or not you have been betraying yourself.
00:19:22.900 --> 00:19:34.580
And so in real time, it looks very much like catching yourself in the moment that you're beating yourself up, or catching yourself in the moment that you're about to say yes when really you need to say no.
00:19:34.820 --> 00:19:36.660
And you will feel that in your gut.
00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:53.859
If you start paying attention, there's a place, usually it's in either your second or third center, your solar plexus or your stomach, that when someone's asking you something to do something that doesn't feel aligned with you or that you don't have the time to do, or you just don't want to do, just because you just don't feel like it, there's a cringe, right?
00:19:54.019 --> 00:19:55.940
There's a tinge in your stomach.
00:19:56.019 --> 00:20:00.180
And when you override that, you're headed for self-betrayal.
00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:04.180
And when you, for example, say yes when you mean no, you will be resentful.
00:20:04.339 --> 00:20:08.180
So if you're walking around with resentment, it's because you betrayed yourself.
00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:12.339
Somehow I really did not want to play mixed doubles on Friday.
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:13.859
And I said yes.
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:18.660
I really wanted to be home exactly with my family.
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:19.140
Yeah.
00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:22.420
And I freaking lost that match so bad.
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:23.620
It was so not fun.
00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:24.019
Right.
00:20:24.099 --> 00:20:25.220
And so what made you say yes?
00:20:25.460 --> 00:20:29.700
Well, I felt like I was betraying my friend, but I was really betraying myself.
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:30.339
Yes.
00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:31.700
That's exactly it.
00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:33.220
And that's the unconscious piece.
00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:34.819
That's the hybrid engine.
00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:36.259
I will let someone down.
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:37.700
I am betraying them.
00:20:37.940 --> 00:20:40.660
And we've been told that that's selfish.
00:20:40.819 --> 00:20:44.900
I shouldn't say no because they might want this, and I should not betray you.
00:20:44.980 --> 00:20:46.980
I should betray myself instead.
00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:51.059
That's a very damaging teaching that we've all been taught.
00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:56.099
And until we learn to unwind that, there's going to continue to be trouble in our inner world.
00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:59.539
Trouble in our inner world is going to be reflected in our outer world.
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.420
So, how do you go about unwinding that?
00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.539
Well, so the easiest way is to catch yourself, right?
00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:10.819
So I always tell a story about when I was years and years ago, I was a step parent.
00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:14.900
And step-parenting is a, is, I don't know if you're a step parent, but it's a it's a challenging job.
00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:23.140
And I got all worked up about my stepson at the time was eating in the living room when I had said like a thousand times not to do that, you know, right?
00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:30.660
And my son was sitting there with him, and then my husband was right in between them, even though he knew that I had right.
00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:38.740
And so now my mind is going, my nervous system is completely off the rails because my mind is like, he knew what I said to try and I've told this kid a thousand times.
00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:40.579
No one respects me in this house.
00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:42.819
Like everything is just going haywire, right?
00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:50.180
And because I'm on this journey and I've been doing this work, and I know what happens when I let that negativity out of my mouth.
00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:53.700
It blows the house up, and then all of a sudden I'm the bad guy, right?
00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:55.700
And it's just a disaster.
00:21:56.019 --> 00:21:59.140
And so I shoved myself in my bedroom.
00:21:59.220 --> 00:22:04.579
And at the time I called my Al-Anon sponsor, which is the program for family members of alcoholics.
00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:09.700
Um, that, you know, I didn't have an active alcoholic in my life at that time, but those lessons die hard.
00:22:09.859 --> 00:22:12.339
We grow up that way, and that's a lifelong program.
00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:16.660
And, you know, she said, your serenity is the only emergency.
00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:36.660
And I use that phrase very often because if we can begin to divert our attention from what's happening in our outer world to what's happening in our inner world and realize that the state of my nervous system is the most important thing in this moment, then all of the things that follow are going to be a lot easier.
00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.940
Because the truth of the matter is, is that that wasn't an emergency.
00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:43.700
The emergency was how I was feeling inside myself.
00:22:44.259 --> 00:22:45.620
And my goal, right?
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:52.980
My aim, what I'm here, what I was on this earth for was not to make sure that there isn't orange goldfish dush on my couch.
00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:54.339
That's not my goal.
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:01.700
My goal was to be, you know, the best mom and stepmom I could be, to have harmony in our household, to have all these things, right?
00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:04.660
But the ego will say, that's not the goal.
00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:05.940
You're being disrespected.
00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:07.140
You can't stand for this.
00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:08.819
Don't let yourself get walked on.
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:09.460
Absolutely.
00:23:09.620 --> 00:23:10.099
I hear you.
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:10.819
Yeah.
00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:24.500
So you got the the you realize what your mission was, what you really authentically who you were trying to be, what your intent was, and realize, hey, the issue is me trying to get myself centered.
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.339
But how did you handle it after that?
00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.140
What did you do?
00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:30.259
Well, at that time, I was not as adept, you know, calm myself down.
00:23:30.339 --> 00:23:31.220
So it took a long time.
00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:35.460
It was really an act of will to be like, I am, I'm gonna eat this negativity.
00:23:35.620 --> 00:23:38.259
I am not going to let it out of my mouth.
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:47.700
And I honestly, I can't remember actually if I actually did or not, because that's when I remember it really landing with me, like, oh, we are really addicted to our emotions.
00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:49.620
I am really addicted to anger.
00:23:49.700 --> 00:23:52.420
And that's another thing about how emotions work in the body.
00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:56.660
Because I remember thinking, there is no way I'm not gonna go out there and rip my husband's face off.
00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:57.539
Like, there's just no way.
00:23:57.700 --> 00:23:59.460
I cannot stop myself, you know?
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:07.779
And anybody who has ever had that or, you know, the addiction to like when someone really wrongs you and you have to go gossip about it, right?
00:24:07.940 --> 00:24:08.819
That's an addiction.
00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:13.299
So breaking that is, you know, something that you have to pay attention to.
00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.819
So at the time, I spoke to my sponsor for I don't even know how long.
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:18.259
And then I went for a drive.
00:24:18.339 --> 00:24:42.819
Like I drove all around the town because I was like, whatever happens, I I need to not show up this way in this moment, because that is in direct opposition to everything I'm trying to create in my life and who I am trying to become, which is more of me, more of my authentic me, more of my essence me, less of my ego me.
00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:43.299
Right.
00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:44.579
Thank you for sharing that.
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:52.019
So you have a chorus called From Hot Mess to Harmony, which goes straight along with this story.
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:52.900
Yes.
00:24:53.299 --> 00:24:57.539
And it's a great title because that's how many of us feel on the inside.
00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:11.460
Like I can totally relate to the whole eating on the couch, although my triggers might be something different, but the feeling of it, like the feeling of you're not respecting me, a hundred percent relate to it.
00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:16.420
And even when we're like per you know, we're doing so great on the outside.
00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:22.180
How do you define alignment and what does it feel like when you're finally in it?
00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:23.059
It's very simple.
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:24.339
It feels like freedom.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:46.980
When you are in alignment and you are in harmony with yourself, because you've made the hard choices to not betray yourself, to not throw yourself under the bus, to not give in to when the ego mind is telling you that you're being disrespected or all of these things, when you get back to that very still place inside of yourself, yeah, that you know, you know you, you know.
00:25:47.059 --> 00:25:47.380
Yeah.
00:25:47.620 --> 00:25:53.140
And it's not about the past and what you are unconsciously projecting onto other people.
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:55.220
And it doesn't mean that you let people walk on you.
00:25:55.299 --> 00:25:56.500
It doesn't mean that.
00:25:56.660 --> 00:26:03.059
There's if if someone is doing something that you don't like, you know, sometimes there's a place to say that.
00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:10.980
Very, very often, once you settle yourself down and you realize that whatever they were doing has really nothing to do with you, you're not being disrespected at all.
00:26:11.059 --> 00:26:15.700
They're just going about the world being themselves, you realize I don't have to say anything, right?
00:26:15.940 --> 00:26:26.660
But if someone is doing something that doesn't work for you and you get quiet enough, you know, over a period of time to realize, like, yeah, like this is who this person is and it doesn't work for me.
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:31.779
You know, then then that's a time where maybe you say something or you may make a decision.
00:26:32.019 --> 00:26:48.660
But when you get so aligned because you've done that work of holding yourself accountable to who am I being, not what am I doing, who am I being, then the anxiety around hurting someone else's feelings goes away, you know, because you've managed that, because you've made a decision to manage it.
00:26:48.819 --> 00:27:01.220
You've said, I'm gonna choose to be anxious right now about my friend feeling that she betrayed me, as opposed to feeling exhausted and resentful later because I betrayed myself by going to play tennis, right?
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:11.539
So you've done that work and your decisions come not from thinking, they come from a deeper place inside yourself, a place that just knows this is what I need to do here.
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:16.900
And it might not be popular, might not be popular, but it's it's in alignment.
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:20.579
There's nothing inside you that feels at odds with itself.
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:32.980
So as you've made this connection and you were helping other people make this connection, is there a moment when you followed your intuition even when it didn't make logical sense?
00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:34.259
And what happened?
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:34.900
Well, yeah.
00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.539
So I I started my career as a psychotherapist.
00:27:37.620 --> 00:27:45.620
And then when I got divorced and I got remarried, I ended up working with my husband, my second husband, in his financial firm.
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.180
And I worked with him for 12 years and it was great.
00:27:48.339 --> 00:27:54.420
I mean, we we built the business and, you know, it gave us a lot of flexibility and a lot of really great things came out of it.
00:27:54.500 --> 00:28:00.259
But there came a time, probably four years before I stopped, that something was just not right.
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:01.859
And I didn't know what it was.
00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:04.660
I kept thinking, well, maybe I need to get a hobby.
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:09.140
You know, he paid, played softball a lot, and maybe I need to join a chorus.
00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:10.900
And I joined a chorus for a couple of years.
00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:12.420
Maybe I need to start writing.
00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:14.500
And so I started writing and I did all these things.
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:18.819
And ultimately, I decided that I needed to go back to my roots.
00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:20.420
I didn't want to go back to psychotherapy.
00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:22.740
I'd learned too much about neuroscience at that point in time.
00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:28.099
I didn't like that model, but I had all that experience and that knowledge that I bring to my work now.
00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:33.940
And I wanted to go back into, I wanted to talk to women, but not about money.
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:38.819
And it didn't really make a lot of sense because we had a lot of freedom in our lives.
00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.140
We had a great business, we worked great together.
00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:46.660
You know, it was just a whole different venture, but that's how I wound up where I am today.
00:28:46.819 --> 00:28:51.299
And it wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitely so much more in alignment.
00:28:51.620 --> 00:28:57.059
So this season is all about building the right community around us.
00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:07.299
You know, of course, we're starting with authenticity, and that's why I have you on this on the podcast now, so that we can really talk about tuning in and knowing ourselves.
00:29:07.460 --> 00:29:12.259
And we can't connect authentically with others if we're not rooted in ourselves first.
00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:23.140
So, how does embodiment knowing your body help us show up more fully, not just for ourselves, but in our relationship, in our work?
00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:32.339
So, as I was saying earlier, it's actually not as easy to be authentic as we thought because the ego is running the show so much of the time.
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:32.900
Yeah.
00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:40.819
So when you do get in your body and you are able to see what is misaligned, then you can show more up more authentically.
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:48.980
So, for example, when we go and do something that someone wants us to do because we're afraid that we're gonna betray them or upset them, is that authentic?
00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:50.579
It's not authentic, right?
00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:53.940
Like we're there in body, but we're not there in spirit.
00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:55.299
We don't want to be there, right?
00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:55.940
That's not authentic.
00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:02.579
It would be much more authentic to say, geez, I'd love to, thanks so much, but you know, it's it's I I really don't want you all right for me, right?
00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:16.019
Like when we show up to a, I do this one all the time because my ego, you know, likes to be funny and likes to make people laugh and is very concerned about whether or not people like me and all of these things.
00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:24.180
And so when I go to dinner parties or things like that, you know, I kind of check myself at the door and say, you know what?
00:30:24.339 --> 00:30:27.059
Like, I'm really glad all your ego parts are here.
00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:29.620
You helped me a lot in my life, you've gotten me very far.
00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:37.940
I'd like for you to stay at the door because today, tonight, when I say something, when something comes out of my mouth, it's gonna be because it's iterative to this conversation.
00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:44.579
It's not because I think I need to teach somebody something or I need somebody to know how much I know or I need somebody to laugh or, you know, whatever.
00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:48.019
It's because, and it might be funny, whatever comes out, right?
00:30:48.180 --> 00:31:01.380
But it's it's not gonna be driven by these egoic demands of wanting to be seen, wanting to be heard, wanting to belong, you know, not feeling worthy enough, all of these things is not gonna be driven by that.
00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:10.019
And when you start to really pay attention to what is the motive, and this is a whole, actually, this is a whole segment of the Hot Nest to Harmony class.
00:31:10.099 --> 00:31:15.539
It's just a little mini class, but there's one of the videos that's totally devoted to your motive.
00:31:15.859 --> 00:31:20.420
When you get curious about your motive, not shaming yourself about your motive because we all have them.
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:28.019
We've evolved this way, but curious about it and are able to identify it, you're gonna show up naturally more authentically.
00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:32.339
You're gonna start to attract the people to you that are more in line.
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:39.620
And you're also going to show up in a way that the people who are not a good authentic match just aren't gonna be interested.
00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:43.779
You know, I moved to a new community not that long ago, several years ago, I guess now.
00:31:43.940 --> 00:31:48.660
And I there was all kinds of friends I made, you know, but there was not a match there.
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.460
It just wasn't a match, you know?
00:31:51.620 --> 00:31:55.539
And so it was more about like, how do I honor myself?
00:31:55.700 --> 00:32:00.019
You know, how do I find the community that I'm looking for?
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:10.660
And that's by being more of who I am and less worrying about how I'm gonna find the community, who likes me, who will accept me, who will have me.
00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:11.059
Yeah.
00:32:11.299 --> 00:32:13.059
Authentic community is really something.
00:32:13.299 --> 00:32:13.700
Yeah.
00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:15.700
Okay, we're gonna take that to heart.
00:32:15.859 --> 00:32:18.339
We're gonna go into the insider questions now.
00:32:18.500 --> 00:32:28.980
But before we go into the insider questions, I want to let the audience know that I will have Abby's contact information in the notes if you want to get a hold of her.
00:32:29.059 --> 00:32:33.779
And I'm hopefully gonna have Abby in the Unsealing You community.
00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:35.859
So you can reach out to Abby.
00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:39.700
I'm sure that you're super curious about this course.
00:32:39.940 --> 00:32:48.259
It sounds really great and something that gets us to where we want to be when we network with others more authentic.
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:54.180
Is there anything that you want to say to the audience before we get into the insider group questions?
00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:58.420
I would say that the goal here is to become more of you.
00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:03.140
And so I'm developing some new curriculum now, and I call it the soul signal.
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:06.259
And it's all about moving from performance to presence.
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:14.900
And when you are vibrating at your soul signal, which is just the deepest part of you, the part that knows that goes from overthinking to inner knowing.
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:18.259
When you vibrate there, meaningful success will find you.
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:23.940
And when you don't vibrate there, you may find success, but you're not gonna be happy.
00:33:24.099 --> 00:33:27.779
You're gonna be exhausted, and it's it's not gonna be meaningful.
00:33:28.099 --> 00:33:32.339
So when that comes out, please tell me so I can let everybody else know about it.
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:33.620
I will for sure.
00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:34.259
Okay.
00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:39.859
And they can find all this kind of stuff on my YouTube channel too, on my podcast, The Intuition Incubator.
00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:43.700
I do a Monday muse every Monday, and it's like a 10-minute little lesson.
00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:45.299
Awesome, fantastic.
00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:49.460
Well, once again, I want to thank you so much for being on Unsealing You.
00:33:49.779 --> 00:33:53.380
So glad that I met you through another guest.
00:33:53.539 --> 00:33:53.859
Yeah.
00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:57.539
And I um am looking forward to this being out there.
00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:58.420
Thank you so much.
00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:00.180
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.
00:34:00.259 --> 00:34:01.539
I really appreciate it, Natalie.
00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:03.940
Thank you so much for joining me and Dr.
00:34:04.099 --> 00:34:05.620
Abby Haberman today.
00:34:05.779 --> 00:34:14.259
If her story resonated, remember, your body is your guide, and unworthiness or burnout do not have to run the show.
00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:21.859
When you stop betraying yourself, you open the door to authentic leadership and a more fulfilling life.
00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:31.139
Don't forget, I've created the Burnout Beacon cheat sheet to help you catch burnout early and reset it before it spreads.
00:34:31.299 --> 00:34:33.460
You'll find the link in today's show notes.
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:39.940
And if you're ready to go deeper alongside a supportive community, come join us inside the Unseiling Zone.
00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:46.980
Until next time, take radical responsibility for your life and watch the ripple effect unfold.
