Ariel Feinerman

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Greetings and welcome to the United States Transhumanist Party Virtual
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Enlightenment Salon. My name is Jannati stolier Off the second
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and I am the Chairman of the US Transhumanist Party.
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Here we hold conversations with some of the world's leading
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thinkers in longevity, science, technology, philosophy, and politics. Like the
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philosophers of the Age of Enlightenment, we aim to connect
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every field of human endeavor and arrive at new insights
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to achieve longer lives, greater rationality, and the progress of
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our civilization. Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our
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US Transhumanist Party Virtual Enlightenment Salon. We have a fascinating
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conversation in store for you about the problems which face
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regenerative medicines, such as the need to attract investment in
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real life projects rather than exclusively AI or digital ones.
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And this has been a problem that has been escalated
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within the longevity or regenerative medicine community because of the
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tremendous advances in artificial intelligence, which have led to a
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lot of researchers shifting their focus essentially in using AI
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to predict the outcomes of certain treatments or certain interactions
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in the real world as well as, for example, screen
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for drugs that are potential candidates for going through clinical
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trials to treat a particular disease. And while these advances
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are highly promising by themselves, they cannot give us the
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entirety of what we need in order to achieve longevity
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escape velocity in our lifetimes. So today our panel consists
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of our director of Visual art our Tremon Garcia, our
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member from Texas who heads the Texas Transhumanist Party, Alan Crowley,
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and our legislative director Jason Geringer. So welcome to our
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esteem panelists, and our special guest today is Ariol va Feinerman.
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Ariol began his career as an entomologist in two thousand
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and three, enrolling in the Kaliningrad State Technical University at
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the Program for Aquatic bio Resources and Aquaculture. He was
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engaged in the study of aquatic insects and he took
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part in several expeditions to the rivers of the Kaliningrad
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region and the North Caucuses. In two thousand and six,
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he switched to learning programming. From twenty ten to twenty
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fourteen he worked as a software engineer. He took part
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in the development of games, computer graphics and sound processing.
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In twenty fourteen, he enrolled in the physics department of
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Saint Petersburg State University, and in twenty fifteen he completed
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a practice in PCR real time PCR DNA gel electropesis
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at the Faculty of Biology in the Laboratory of Plant
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Genetic Engineering. In twenty fifteen to twenty sixteen, he completed
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a practice in genetic engineering at the Faculty of Biology
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in the Laboratory of Physiological Genetics. He participated in the
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screening of yeast genomes participated in the testing of metal
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complexes for toxicity and biological activity using bacterial strains. In
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twenty seventeen, he transferred to the Baltic Federal University and
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continued his studies at the Program of Physics at the
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Institute of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and Information Technology. He
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studied biological molecules using NMR spectroscopy. In twenty seventeen to
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twenty eighteen, he worked as a consultant in a bioengineering company.
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In twenty seventeen, he began work on education in the
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field of rejuvenation biotechnology and regenerative Medicine. Twenty eighteen to
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twenty twenty, he was the deputy chief editor of the
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popular science resource Future Collector. In twenty nineteen, he received
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a Bachelor of Science's degree in physics for the study
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of pospholipids using low field NMR spectroscopy. In twenty twenty,
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he founded the biotechnological company Intraclear Biologics OU in Tallinn,
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Estonia and became its chief science officer. He is now
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a guest author of the publication Longevity Technology. He has
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been an allied member of the US Transhumanist Party since
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two thousand and seventeen, so Ariel is well known to
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those of us who read the US Transhumanist Party website
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because we've published various interviews and articles by him. And
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now Ariel, welcome and please tell us what you have
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to say about the importance of real life projects in
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regenerative medicine.
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All nice to medium.
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I want to add to my biography that i'm Since
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twenty twenty five, I have been an advisory board member
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of Live Board Foundation. So now I hope to help
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more to regenerative medicine in the United States, and today
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I want to discuss some problems of implementing their regenerative medicine.
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There are technical problems which we usually focus on that,
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but also there are policy making and financial problems, and
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today I want to discuss precisely them. But before I
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would like to remind our people who watch and listen
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to us, what about regenerative medicine and say a brief
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introduction to sense research. So, according to o Z estimates,
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fifty to eighty million people died in the six years
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of World War two. Agent kills at least one hundred
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thousand people every day and at least forty million people
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every year the population of modern Canada and only slightly
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less than the entire Second World War two. And unlike
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war they have no chance to defend themselves and they
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do not die young and healthy with weapons in their hands.
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Their last five two ten years of life are filled
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with suffering and infirmity and pain, loss of dignity and
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dependence of family and friends. This is why we must
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make every effort to defeat agent as soon as possible
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and put an end to human suffering and diseases. On
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the other hand, I'm very glad that the fight against
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aging has finally broken out of the world of science
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fiction and enter it our lives. The inevitability of global
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changes in health is becoming increasingly obvious, and twenty seventeen
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year was a turning point in many ways. For the
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first time, not only leading scientists, but also well known
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politicians and economists spoke out about the fight against aging
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and regenerative medicine. So far only in words and in
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scientific publications, but this is already a lot. However, there
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is still a huge gap between scientific publications and real life,
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and it is great that more and more people are
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not just talking about the fight against aging, but also
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taking real steps in this direction. On the other hand,
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the quality of these popular articles and steps is usually
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very low, but when was it high, and is in
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no way connected with regenerative medicine or rejuvenation. Many of
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them do more harm than good because they marginalize they're
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already not very good reputation of a very important and
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necessary direction of research. In general, there is no enemy
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more dangerous than a bad ali because no moredern medicine.
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Not to mention all sorts of diets facting and diets
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that imitate festing, dietary suppliments, antioxidants, geroprotectors, exercises and other
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lifestyles are capable of rejuvenating the human body even for
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a month. And here is why I want to say
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that it doesn't mean that lifestyles do not important. They
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are very important in the sense that bad lifestyle can
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reduce your lifespan and health spun. But good lifestyle cannot
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rejuvenate you. It cannot really prolonge your life beyond your
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genetic capabilities. So we must have good lifestyle, but we
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do not focus on it as an only way to
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prolone our health and life. Most people certainly have no
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idea what aging is, and so I, in a few words,
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will try to explain it from the engineering point of view.
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One of the most popular and unhelpful definitions of aging
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is that the probability of an organism's death increases with time.
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In other words, the older you are, chronologically, the more
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likely you are to die. However, this has many flowers.
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For example, a newborn baby is more likely to die
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than a thirty years old guy, but it would be
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a mistake to say that a newborn is older to
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the point. Many turtles and fish's survival rates increase with time.
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But this doesn't mean that they are getting younger. Finally,
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like all other statistical definitions, it says nothing about a
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particular person's chances of living alone and heal's life. A
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good definition not only allows us to draw many important
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and useful consequences from it, it also points us to
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a solution to the problem. Below, we will consider agent
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itself and approaches to its solution from an engineering perspective.
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So agent can be defined as a process of accumulation
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of molecular and cellular damages that are a consequence of
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normal metabolism. It is very important to emphasize the word
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normal here because once you take it into account, it
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immediately becomes clear that it is impossible to slow down
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the agent process, much less stop it. To do this,
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you need to completely redesign the human metabolism, rewriting its genome.
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It is important to know that the processes that cause
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damage are also the processes that give us life. For example,
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breathing Breathing generates a reactive oxygen species that kills us slowly,
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but at the same time, breathing generates energy which we
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need to life. But since we cannot influence the processes
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of damage accumulation, themselves, at least at the current level
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of science. What can we do without interfering with the
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metabolic processes? We can supply remove the accumulated damage caused
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by them from time to time, returning the body to
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an earlier undamaged it and as a result, younger state.
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And first approach that I talked about, trying to slow
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down accumulation of damage by interfering with metabolism, is called
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a gerontological approach, and unfortunately it is widely accepted in
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academic community. The second approach, so called damage repaid approach
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or engineering approach, or in other words, it can be
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called a regenerative medicine, is in my view, the best
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approach because it does not touch our metabolism, leaves it untouched,
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but at the same time it clears out all damage
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that causes agent pathologies. And at first glance, the idea
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that traversing agent regivene is not just the easiest but
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also the only possible way to combat it seems paradoxal.
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But think about what is easier to build a machine
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that never breaks down, or to repair it in time,
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never to litter a room or to clear it in time.
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This is how our world works. Eliminating structural differences junk
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and damage is much easier than controlling the complex interviewing
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of various processes that lead to their formation. More where,
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we don't even need to know the structure of the
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car and the purpose of the things in the room.
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All they need is another working car and a clean room.
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By comparing a broken car with a working car and
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a dirty room with a clean room, we can find
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out what parts it thinks we need, what needs to
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be replaced, and what needs to be thrown away. Another
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good news is that we don't have to fix all
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the damage. For example, we don't need to punish every
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scratch on the car and looks for every speck of
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dust in the room. We just need to keep their
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level below critical so that the car can drive normally
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and the room is comfortable to live in. And the
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second differences between genetological and engineering approach is that in
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genetological approach, when we accumulate some level of damage, you
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cannot lower it. You only can slow down to accumulation
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of future damage, so people who already damage it and
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old they cannot benefit from it. But in engineering approach,
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because it is about reversing not slowing down aging. People
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at any age can benefit from it because when we
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remove damage, all our biochemical processes return to normal state.
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We remove structural changes the damage, so structurally this regumination
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person is almost identical to the really really young person. Okay,
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this is the sense of the strategies for engineered negligible senescence,
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or sense that doctor B. De Gray proposed in the
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beginning of the century in twenty or seven years. I
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hope everyone from you know about it, so I will
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not talk about it too deeply, because today's conversation is
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not about technical problems but mainly about formal and financial problems.
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But I want to give you an example of the
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third approach to treading agent, so called geriatric approach or
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con Suttery approach. This approach is widely used in current
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medicine and it is quite effective in the beginning of
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the aging, but then becomes less and less effective. I
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hope you now understand why modern medicine, not to mention
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p SELD or reguminating technologies can do nothing about a
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It does not eliminate its causes molecular and celulary damage.
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It is based on.
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A compensatory approach intervention in the malfunctioning metabolic processes and
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compensation for its numerous symptoms, with an equally numerous number
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of drugs. In its final form, it involves bringing the
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biochemical and functional biomarkers of an old and sick organism
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to those of a young and healthy one without changing
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its structural features. But all these pathetic attempts to cope
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with the learn learn hydra of a huge number of
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interdependent processes a doom to failure in advance, and all
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it can do is only slightly smooth out the symptoms
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of aging, slightly slow down their progression, and ultimately only
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prolong the patient's suffering. The compensatory approach for the purpose
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of rejuvenation can be compared to regularly pouring gasoline into
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a leaky gas tongue. It's an example of treating Packinston's
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disease with levodopa, or even worse, turning on the afterburners
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on a worn out engine, for example. It is like
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gross gormone injections in middle age. Let's consider, for example,
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such an agent pathology as arterial hypertension high blood pressure,
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but know it's true cause the walls of arterias and
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vessels are rigid because of glucosepane cross links and other
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interporting cross links.
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In fact, there is another.
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Cause classification of the vessel walls, but it is largely
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a secondary damage that occurs because of a general increase
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in the level of calcium ions in the blood as
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a reaction to chronic inflammation, and its cause. The senescen
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cells can be eliminated by synolytics. More where glucosopin cross
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lynks themselves are a source of chronic inflammation. The only
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reasonable method of treating hypertension seems to be dissolving glucoseypan
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and returning the walls of art and vessels to their
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originally youthful elasticity, but modern medicine does not yet have
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such drugs. Modern medicine only alleviates or compensates its symptoms
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by directly lowering blood pressure. It has dozens of different
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methods and even more different drugs in its arsenal. Some
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of them delight blood vessels, relaxing their smooth muscles. Others
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reduce the hard rate. Others remove excess of water from
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the soculatory system, reducing.
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Its osmotic pressure. All of them have lots of.
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Contraindications, incompatibilities with other drugs, and side effects. Well, what
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did you expect interference in metabolism and a broken one
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that does not work well, not to mention that they
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do not eliminate the main cause. Yet, pharmaceutical companies with
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quaxotic resonation continue to pour billions of dollars into developing
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more and more drugs that don't Why they do this
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is another question, one that dissolves a separate lecture and
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the regenerative medicine of the future. Based on the elimination
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of primary types of damage, everything will be different. Since
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hypertation is caused by interprotein cross links, the only way
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to treat it will be.
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To break them.
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Of course, there will be still be different therapies, different
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in quality, price, and effectiveness, but there are principles of
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work dissolving breaking Glucoseyprian cross links, and the end results
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normalization of blood pressure will be the same. As a bonus,
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you will get smooth, elastic skin without wrinkles because interpret
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in cross links I mind cause of skin wrinkles, and
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since glycosypan accumulated slowly, such proceeds will be needed only
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once every few years. Okay, this was a brief introduction
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into regenerative medicine, and before I will proceed to the
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next section, I ask you to ask questions if you
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have them.
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Yes, thank you very much Ariel for the introductory part
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of your presentation. I will just ask one question and
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then I will invite the panel to ask additional questions. So,
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do you think, based on the progress and regenerative medicine
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that you have observed in the course of your career,
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that we are on track to reach longevity escape velocity
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within our lifetime? So Aubrey De Gray himself states there's
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about a fifty percent probability in his view of longevity
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escape velocity being attained twelve to fifteen years from now.
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Do you agree with him or do you think he's
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being overly optimistic given the current rate of progress.
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You know, I don't like to talk about time frames
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because success in any area, and especially in scientific and engineering,
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progress is not a function of time. It is a
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function of our efforts. So it's completely dependent not on time,
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but on our efforts. The more efforts we put on it,
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they are better our chances. So I don't like to
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talk about on frames because of that. Reason I think
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that current efforts are not enough to be over optimistic.
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But I can see some light, especially in the past
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few years. So I only think I can say is
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that within the next ten years there will be enormous
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shifts in medicine. But whether they will lead to algevity,
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s cape velocity or not, I cannot say. I am
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not a god and I cannot see a future, but
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I can put my efforts to bring these things to reality.
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So I think the only thing I have to do
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is not to predict the future or talk about time frames,
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but constantly push our efforts to make it a reality.
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Yes, thank you for that answer, And I understand there
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are a lot of uncertainties in terms of the time
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frames in which these advances will arrive or are likely
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to arrive, and some of these uncertainties also have to
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do with non scientific factors like societal, economic, political factors.
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And Alan observes in our private chat it's not the years,
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it's the mileage in terms of the wear and tear
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on the organism. And there is a certain extent to
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which lifestyle can make a difference, but I would say
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it is at most a difference of plus or minus
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fifteen years in biological age, in the sense that already
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by my age, I'm no seeing some differences among people,
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and the differences may be a bit paradoxical. So, for instance,
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I run quite a lot, but I don't run the
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same amount as ultra running champions. I see some ultra
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running champions who are my age, who have placed very
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highly over one hundred mile races, who do climbing, who
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do a lot of extreme sport activities. So they do
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the running for a different reason than I do. I
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do it for longevity and health. And I notice they
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do look older than I do. They look more weathered.
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They even have other features of biological aging which are
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surprising because they're still physically fit. They're still very capable.
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They could outrun me in long distances, and they could
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do certain things that I couldn't. But they are biologically
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older than I am, so they did something through excessive
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way to their bodies. But the fact is, I don't
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think there's a sixty year old who is biologically a
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thirty year old. I don't think there's a forty five
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year old who is biologically an eighteen year old. Notwithstanding
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any of Brian Johnson's comments. I think if you look
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at Brian Johnson, you could say, well, he looks very
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good for his age, but somebody being asked to identify
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his age would probably put him in his early forties,
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whereas in reality he's forty seven. So there's only so
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much that lifestyle can do. And I think it's important
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to stress that point to anyone who thinks they're going
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to live past the age of one hundred and thirty
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based on healthy lifestyle alone, it's a good idea not
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to die prematurely, but to extend maximum lifespan. We absolutely
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need for juvenation. Now, Jason has a question for you.
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Are keynotes that you went from studying insects to programming
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to longevity science. Was that your plan all along or
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did you just kind of make it up as you went.
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Yeah, with a brief start for physics along the way too.
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Ah.
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You know, initially, I can say that all my time
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from my childhood, I worried about aging and death, so
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I wanted to not age, to not die, and be
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young and health forever. But when I began my scientific
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career in the beginning of the century twenty years ago,
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there is almost no research in biomedical engineering especially about
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longevity or determination. Even such words though unusual at that time,
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and I wanted to study insects. I wanted to study entomology,
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but at the same time I wanted to live alone
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and health's life. And then it's almost every step if
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my life was accidental, but the same time, it was
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influenced by preverse steps. So it was not random in
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its sense, but it was influenced by both by my environment,
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by my life, and by preverse steps in my life.
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So I wanted to study insects when I was five
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or seven years old, and at that age, I, of
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course do not think about aging and death. At that age,
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children usually don't understand their own mortality. While when I
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grow up, it became clear that I will age and
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die somewhere in the future, and especially it was clear
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when I was thirteen years old, and it was a
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big shock for me. And then I thought about whereas
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possibilities to prolong my life. And when I was eighteen,
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I wanted to study bioengineering or by physics something like that,
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but there is no such programs in my hometown. And
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then I decided to go to the field that I
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already now, the entomology but it became quickly clear that
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I lost interest not in entomology itself, but in the
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university where I live. Also, not only there are no
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programs for bungineering, but also there are no dedicated programs
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for entomology. And I studied acuabiology and then after a
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few years, I leave university and I became a self
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educated programmer, and I worked about ten years as a
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programmer in industry, and then I decided to return to science.
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Within that ten years there was a big changes in
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perception of longevity and regumination, and I could see that
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there are chances to make a change in the world.
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And I thought to choose a field of science educational
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program strictly speaking, which will give me the more possibilities.
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And I chose physics because it's the most fundamental science
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that give you opportunity to work in almost every field,
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from pure mathematics to bioengineering, chemistry, biology, or medicine. I
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hope you know that the majority of Nobel Price lowres
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in medicine and physiology were physicists or chemists by their education,
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and molecular biology is at most discipline that is a
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science that will be built by physicists mainly, So I
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chose physics as a fundament of my education, and I
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never regret about my decision. So then I got a
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physics degree and then started to study biomedical engineering. And
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now I keep my interest in physics, and at the
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same time, I continue my self education in biomedical engineering
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and preparing to getting a PhD. And I hope to
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move to the United States soon to continue to get
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PhD in either.
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Physics for example, biophysics.
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It will be a continuation of my university walk about
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structural biology, or in medical or biomedical engineering for example,
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genetic or cell engineering. I'm interested in both these fields
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and they are quickly interchanged, and they have many similarities.
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So I think that degree in either of them will
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be very valuable.
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For my work.
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Yes, thank you very much for that answer regarding your
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academic path, And certainly I can see the relationships among
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those disciplines. And I will also say people who delve
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into multiple disciplines have a higher likelihood of making contributions
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in a variety of fields because they could see insights
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that those who are just narrowly specialized in one field cannot.
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And this is actually one of our purposes for our
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Virtual Enlightenment salons to bring in people with these interdisciplinary
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insights and see if we can break new ground in
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terms of understanding certain phenomena. We're figuring out solutions to
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certain phenomena.
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And I want to say that my experience in software
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engineering in programming has a huge impact on my views
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in biomedical engineering. And I think that biomedical engineering should
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be as advanced as other types of engineering, like programming
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engineering or our space engineering, and even more, I family
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believe that medicine is itself is a type of engineering
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because it can be thought of as human repair engineering
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in fact, so for now, uncertainly, medicine is still is
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more art than an engineering and I want medicine to
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be a more engineering discipline, so I hope it will
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become a truly human repair engineering with all engineering ground.
431
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It's very useful in medicine when you treat human body
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as a very complex self repairing machine.
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Yes, indeed. And I will also note that Aubrey de
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Gray got his start in his career path as a programmer,
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and I think that was crucial to get him to
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recognize the merits of the engineering approach toward combating aging,
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because he saw that people who are just pure biology,
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they were more focused on just understanding aging and the
439
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.200
processes of aging, and not so much in intervening them
440
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or fixing them. So he brought a much needed fresh
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and different perspective from an engineering background and approach. So
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thank you for that discussion. Please proceed with the next
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part of your presentation.
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Okay, now we will talk about problems with governmental funding
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of regenerative medicine.
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If you take a close look.
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At national Institutes of Health or National Institutes of Aging
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00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:42.160
funded work, well, you will find hundreds of publications about obacity, lifestyle,
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air pollution and their impact on longevity. Don't you know
450
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that obacity, smoking, and much drinking of alcohol is bad
451
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for you? How can this information might help us create
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a new cure against cancer or a earth crossis? Do
453
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we really need another one work on it? Also, you
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00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:05.240
can find many publications about calorie restriction and various genetic
455
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.559
manipulations on worms and other model organisms that mimic it.
456
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:14.319
Calorial restriction is everywhere. While we know for twenty years
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that calorie restriction doesn't work for humans and high primates.
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For example, in twenty fifteen, five hundred million dollars was
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given to projects like a large randomized trial of vitamin
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00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:31.000
d omega three fifty assets and cognitive decline. It's not
461
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.880
a joke, it's a real research walk. You can find
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more on the side of National Institutes of Health. All
463
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:41.000
that is useless because you cannot use it to produce
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working rejuvenation therapists. Only small part of this work is
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useful in the sense of defeating agent. Do you know
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what is the most interesting? It's all your taxes, all
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your money. Now you know that. And for example, the
468
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.039
budget of National Institutes of Health is constantly growing, and
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in twenty twenty five it is almost five billions of dollars,
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and unfortunately the grand system of National Institutes of Health
471
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:13.759
do not check for what this money is spent on.
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For example, my former scientific advisor several years worked in
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National Institutes of Health and they said to me that
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they found that when you enter this system you can
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get money for nearly everything.
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People really got money for.
477
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Studying butterflies in Amazon rainforests, for example, and only they
478
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have to do is to ride somewhere in the end
479
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of this article that this work may help create medical
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treatment somewhere in the future, and this is enough for
481
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national Institutes of health.
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So it is quite difficult.
483
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To get grant from national institutes of health. But when
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00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.359
you inside this system, when you already entering this system,
485
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:04.400
you can spends governmental money for nearly everything. And I
486
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.360
think it's very bad because National Institutes of Health is
487
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:12.480
a health organization, it's a medical organization, and I family
488
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:16.079
believe that they have to spend their money only on
489
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.239
those research that directly related to human health, to the medicine,
490
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:26.800
to the creating of new therapies, new tests. There are
491
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:31.119
only two kinds, two sorts of medical good things that
492
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:35.239
can be funded by government. Thrust is medical tests to
493
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.400
test human organism whether it have a disease or not.
494
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:42.360
And second that therapy to treat or prevent a disease
495
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.360
in the case if that human organism has that disease
496
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.679
or can have that disease. And current situation I think
497
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:55.199
is not normal when governmental money then every year five
498
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:59.079
billions of money spend for something that we even do
499
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.039
not know for where I want to ask where is
500
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:05.639
the results? Fifty billion of doors is a very big
501
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:07.800
money and I want to.
502
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:09.760
Ask where are results?
503
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.440
And at the same time, really important research projects like
504
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.480
work on glucosepunk breaker therapy, which will end many agent
505
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:22.480
pathologies like arterial stiffness, chronic inflammation, hypt engine strokes, and
506
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:23.840
will save many leaves.
507
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:26.360
For example, it was to can piggle up at.
508
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:30.519
Yale University is permanently underfunded and would be closed in
509
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.320
twenty seventeen without financial support from Since Research Foundation and
510
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:41.159
German entrepreneur Michael Grave. Likely they finally found an investors
511
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:47.000
and now they sown out a company called Arrivel Pharmaceuticals. Unfortunately,
512
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.960
there are still in a stealth state, and I many
513
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.159
times have tried to reach our own Cravens. They're so
514
00:35:56.599 --> 00:36:00.480
much here rejected an interview unfortunately because they they are
515
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.920
not treadive for disclosure their information about this therapy. But
516
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:09.519
he permitted that they will make a statement soon, so
517
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.119
we wait for them. And finally, the cost of implementing
518
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:17.039
the vocan rejuvenation treatment, for example in old mice, the
519
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:21.079
implementing all the SENSE program in old mice, so called
520
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:26.000
robust mice rejuvenation, would by current estimates, be only one
521
00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:29.440
to two percent of the Apollo program, and the same
522
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.159
amount of money about half a million of dollars was
523
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:37.679
already spent on cirtuins which have obviously produced nothing. If
524
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:41.400
you remember, there was such a company Certwix, and such
525
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:46.760
genes called cirtuins that allegedly could prolong human health and life.
526
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:51.079
And this research was led by David Sinclair, a famous
527
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:55.880
researcher from Harvard Medical School, and he spent hundreds of
528
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:00.840
thousands of dollars on this research. But finally it was
529
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.880
bought by one of big pharma companies and closed because
530
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.480
in fact, there are no real results from it though
531
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.159
all this money, and that was known initially because the
532
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:17.800
mechanism of action of their alleged therapy was not a
533
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.480
damage repair approach, so it was initially known that it
534
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:26.960
will not work. But nevertheless they spent a big amount
535
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.400
of money for that and got nothing from it. So
536
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:33.800
this is an example of what I called genk research.
537
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.400
One of the reasons this takes place, I think, is
538
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.039
because people from academia are mostly not by medical engineers
539
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:47.920
but gerontologies. Genontology is a basic science which studies aging,
540
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:54.320
while biomedical engineering and regenerative medicine engineering disciplines which do
541
00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:59.039
not study aging but try to influence aging try to
542
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:03.559
fix broken human organism. This is a much difference between
543
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:08.360
basic research and engineering research, and I think that unfortunately,
544
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:13.639
still in academy and in governmental agencies in the United States,
545
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:18.119
the most of the positions are taken by classic academic researchers,
546
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:23.039
classic gerontologists who are not interesting in results, who are
547
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:29.119
interesting in publicly, in academic careers, in publications, in Hirsh index,
548
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:34.599
in rise grants, in their perception by other members of
549
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:39.639
academic community, but they are clearly not interesting in curing people.
550
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:43.840
They are not interesting in caring of patients, and I
551
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:48.360
think that we need a change of course. Academia must
552
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.840
have basic researchers. I do not want to say that
553
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.039
basic research is bad. No, basic research is very good,
554
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.920
because it's a fundament to all other research and engineering.
555
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.559
But these people people have not to work in governmental
556
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:08.079
agencies who spend money on things that must have direct
557
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:13.000
results related to human health. Only those people who work
558
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:19.000
on real generative medicine, on biomedical engineering may make decisions
559
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:23.960
and rule and governmental agencies, because their goal is not
560
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:27.800
to get knowledge, but to use knowledge to help people.
561
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.599
And so we need to have less gerontologists who merely
562
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:36.480
study agent and more biomedical engineers who repair damage In
563
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:40.159
other words, we should switch our focus from aging research
564
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:45.440
to regomination engineering or generative medicine. It's almost the same terms.
565
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.599
Even their generative medicine is slightly more general term because
566
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:53.800
generative medicine works not only in the case of aging
567
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.199
but also in the case of traumas of young people.
568
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:01.880
So I prefer to more generally term of generative medicine.
569
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.880
Since aging is an engineering problem, then from the generatology
570
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.440
and sports of view, it looks like not my job.
571
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:11.679
To reverse it. So this is why I ask to.
572
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:17.159
Invite more real generative medicine researchers and biomedical engineers to
573
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.880
work on it, and likely there is some good change
574
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.679
in past few years. The one of the few good
575
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:29.400
things that the past White House administration leaves to us
576
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:33.559
is Advanced Research Project Agency for Health or URPA H.
577
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:36.559
It was established in twenty twenty.
578
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:40.199
First as a six and five billion dollars agency and
579
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.119
is meant to be the biomedical equivalent of the Defense
580
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:48.880
Advanced Research Project Agency DARPA loans for developing GPS and
581
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:52.639
the Internet. As at DARPA, a small group of program
582
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:56.559
managers will have considerable freedom to choose many of our
583
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.639
per h's efforts and specific awardies. Unlike National Institutes of Health,
584
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:06.559
it didn't initially ask for long applications full of supporting data,
585
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.880
just three pages outlining a vision or major goals and
586
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.079
how to achieve it. There's a big difference because our
587
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:18.760
per H is work not in academic like National Institutes
588
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.960
of Health, but in industrial way. It works as an
589
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:27.440
industrial company by medical company, and it's very good because
590
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.480
it allows it to achieve great results in very short terms.
591
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.800
In contrast to darker research which is meant to help
592
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.039
the military, our per H projects I am to improve
593
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:41.880
the health of all Americans. And even more, unlike national
594
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:46.360
Institutes of Health, when all applicants must have academic positions
595
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:49.400
in the United States, the applicants to our per H
596
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.119
they need not to have academic positions, and even foreign
597
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:57.480
citizens can apply for contracts in our PERH. So this
598
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.840
is a very very good idea. And if our p
599
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:05.039
H successfully follows its namesake history, the backbone of the
600
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:08.760
agency will be its programs, so called programs led by
601
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:12.840
a so called program manager who conserves an idea then
602
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.719
assembles an outside team of scientists to carry it out
603
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:21.400
with funding that might be one hundred millions of dollars
604
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.679
or even more, and team selected by our pH, funded
605
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:28.519
with contracts rather than grants, will work closely with the
606
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:33.119
agency and could have awards bullet if they don't meet milestones.
607
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:37.119
It's a different way of thinking and it's not for everyone.
608
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:41.280
They estimate only ten to twenty percent of academic researchers
609
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:45.079
will find it appealing. And I think that this party
610
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.519
that our PIH uses is very good for any types
611
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.840
of engineering, and especially for regenerative medicine, because it's not
612
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:57.519
like in national Institutes of Health when you are getting
613
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:01.800
to this flow of almost free money and you work
614
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:06.440
for many years without any results. In our PAH, you
615
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:10.800
must write a report every six months and if you
616
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:15.000
do not meet your promises, you will pulled out of
617
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.239
the program. And I think it's very good because it
618
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:23.880
will keep away all these academic researchers who just want
619
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.960
to make their academic careers and not create real results.
620
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:33.239
And unfortunately a new administration fared out renee Vaction, director
621
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.639
of our pH, who built this agency.
622
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:37.679
In fact, this is normal because.
623
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:41.960
Every new administration usually changes directors of governmental agencies.
624
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:43.320
But the issue is.
625
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:47.480
That rene Vaction was the best person through this agency,
626
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.760
and they still do not find a new director of
627
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.320
the agency. So if someone from the officials listen to us,
628
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.519
I asked them either to return renee vaction to her
629
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:03.480
position or to find someone as genuine as sure because
630
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.880
it slowed down their work of this amazing agency. And
631
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:11.960
I would like to say that this our agency is
632
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.760
a really amazing, wonderful endeavor which can be compared to
633
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:19.880
a poll up project for its importance for the United
634
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:24.800
States economy and science and healthcare. Okay, so if you
635
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.199
have questions about this section, I will be glad to
636
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:29.280
answer them.
637
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.519
Yes, thank you very much, Ariel for this part of
638
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:39.960
your presentation and discussing some of the poor incentive structures
639
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.599
that have historically characterized funding of medical research. Particularly you
640
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:52.039
mentioned the NIH grant project. And it's interesting because various
641
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:56.199
scientists have complained to me and to others that the
642
00:44:56.400 --> 00:45:03.639
NIH is notoriously un willing to fund projects that may
643
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:11.440
be extremely effective in the long term for reversing biological aging,
644
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:15.639
but they are uncertain in terms of their outcomes. So
645
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:21.559
there could be a long research timeframe and then at
646
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.880
the end of that timeframe, from one's initial vantage point,
647
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.480
it's not really clear whether or not that research will succeed.
648
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:36.199
And the NIH, from my understanding, grants about twenty percent
649
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:40.280
of the applications that it receives, so about eighty percent
650
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:44.880
of the scientists who apply for grants do not receive
651
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:49.519
the money. But it's interesting that sometimes the criticism that
652
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:53.840
I hear is that the NIH is very conservative. They
653
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:58.440
only want something that will bring near term results, and
654
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.719
those could be incremental rest But they could say, especially
655
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.199
to politicians or to taxpayer advocates, oh, we've been spending
656
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:12.360
taxpayer's money wisely. See here's those published paper that arrives
657
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:16.960
at certain conclusions. But you also said the NIH sometimes
658
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:24.119
funds speculative research, like potentially research on butterflies, where the
659
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:28.719
grand application says, well, someday this could be translated into medicines.
660
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.400
And on the one hand, an argument could be made, oh,
661
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.800
there are plants and animals, especially in remote parts of
662
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:40.480
the world, that could have properties that could be beneficial
663
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:42.519
for human health, and it would be good to study
664
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:46.360
them and understand those properties and their potential applications. But
665
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.679
at the same time, I would also agree that that
666
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.960
is not the most direct path, and that is not
667
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:56.480
the path that is most likely to succeed to getting
668
00:46:56.599 --> 00:47:02.360
us to longevity escape velocity in our lifetimes. So why
669
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:06.320
do you think the NIH is more likely to fund
670
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.239
the butterfly research which is very uncertain as to the
671
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:17.639
medicinal applications, as compared to say, sense type damage repair research,
672
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.800
which also has a long time frame and some uncertainty,
673
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:28.119
but could provide some significant benefits if it succeeds. What
674
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.159
do you think is happening there in terms of the
675
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:31.920
thinking in the agency.
676
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.119
I think that there is some history reasons because an
677
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:43.400
H is an old organization with their own rules and traditions,
678
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:48.159
and I think it's sometimes more valuable to make something
679
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:53.320
new from scratch than trying to change something long existed,
680
00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.039
and our PIH is a good example of that.
681
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.119
I think that just because an.
682
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:03.480
H is unlike it's it's more academic than goal directed
683
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.679
industrial type institution, and it has a long application process
684
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:12.320
and very bureaucratic process, very formal process.
685
00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:15.800
It has a long term traditions.
686
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.840
And has people who work in an age for many years,
687
00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:24.719
and they are from the when damage repair approach was
688
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:29.159
not grounded, was not even consider it, And this is
689
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.519
just the and I think this is a reason so
690
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:37.159
there are age principles that some of them are formal,
691
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:41.119
some of them are informal, but they are slightly outdated.
692
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:44.960
And I think when you know, one of the physicists
693
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:50.760
said that new ideas gained popularity not when people understand them,
694
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:55.199
but when the people who defended old ideas are die
695
00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:58.800
from aging. So I think that an age will change
696
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:03.199
when a new generation of researchers who from the beginning
697
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:08.679
study regenerative medicine and bio medical engineering will take positions
698
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:11.400
in it. But we cannot wait for that, and I
699
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:15.320
don't want that any of them die, So it's not
700
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:20.159
very altruistic to wait when the old generation of researchers
701
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.800
will die. So I think that we will make changes
702
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.440
just today, and that is the reason why our pH
703
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:31.679
was created. It's not a concurrent to ANIH because their
704
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:36.320
very approach is completely different, as I explained, So I
705
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:40.800
even do not consider ANIH for my applications, both for
706
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:44.960
formal and formal reasons. But my projects and projects of
707
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:48.880
my coeleagues completely fit in our pH gender. So I
708
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.639
think that it's very very good endeavor and I think
709
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:56.519
that it have at least such money as an age.
710
00:49:56.599 --> 00:50:00.000
I think if our pH has fifty billions per year.
711
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.719
Many projects will be already have done. You said a
712
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:08.599
valid point that many research involved in regenerative medicine have
713
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:12.119
some ansertaincies and long term But for now, of course,
714
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.519
I can say we do not all about aging, and
715
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.719
we for many years will not know all about aging.
716
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:23.679
But I can say that we know enough about aging
717
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:27.519
to treat it and to at least begin to create
718
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:32.119
therapies that will reverse it. And the idea of longevity
719
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.079
is capulocity, as you know, is not to create a
720
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.880
one hundred percent effective therapy from the beginning, but to
721
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.400
create a therapy that will somehow help people. And this
722
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:48.440
will buy some years, and these years will allow us
723
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:52.360
to create more effective therapy that will buy even more years.
724
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:56.320
And this, step by step, we will reach the state
725
00:50:56.599 --> 00:51:01.239
when we completely defeat agent. So we already know enough
726
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.199
to do many things, and I will in the next
727
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.800
section give you a few examples of the companies and
728
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:13.360
their technologies that already can cure incurable diseases, but they
729
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:16.559
cannot get money for that. So I think that our
730
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:20.679
page have to be a first priority agency for the
731
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:26.320
White House administration. I hear everyone that about artificial intelligence
732
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:30.000
and the Trump and ellwn Mask and other people in
733
00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:34.800
the United States who make politics. They constantly talking about
734
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:39.840
artificial intelligence and their importance and that we need to
735
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.360
invest in it. But unfortunately, no one of such high
736
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:48.920
level persons talk in the same way about regenerative medicine
737
00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:52.039
and health care. I cannot see such talks, and I
738
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.599
think we have to talk about it. We have to
739
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:00.599
write open letters to White House Administration. So what is
740
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:05.840
the makers, to snators from American Congress, to any influential
741
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:10.639
people you know, so that this problem will be constantly
742
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:14.920
pushing to this So this problem will be constantly on
743
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.880
our screens and newspapers. And I think this is very important.
744
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:24.039
Yes, thank you for that answer. And now Alan, I
745
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:26.880
know you have several questions, so please go ahead.
746
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:28.039
Now, thank you, Eron.
747
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:32.159
I do have several questions, and I appreciate what you're saying.
748
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:34.320
I want to kind of give you my background from
749
00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:39.239
the military, because the military gets tons of funding and
750
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:43.800
I think this idea that sort of scared me when
751
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.360
you said it that you know, folks at the NIH
752
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:50.840
there just wanting to mark their careers in time and
753
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:55.400
not actually delivering results. And oddly enough, a lot of
754
00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:58.239
the people in the military are just the opposite, which
755
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:00.159
is not what you want in science.
756
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:01.800
Or the military, right, you don't want to know.
757
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.599
And it's like, yeah, you learned how to make a war,
758
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.800
but our real job is just to punch our time,
759
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.079
do our career and make the peace happen.
760
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:10.360
Right.
761
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:14.079
So it's really kind of interesting to see that difference
762
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:17.480
and the difference in funding. Now it's just shoveled on
763
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:21.840
top of the military without any checking and yet basic research,
764
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:25.000
which you know, and I guess nobody wants to go
765
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.559
up in front of Congress and say, well, we've found
766
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:31.239
ten thousand ways that a light bulb doesn't work, you know,
767
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:34.280
like that's we are really onto it, you know, they
768
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.239
want to be. It's just the basic research, right, we
769
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.199
need all of that basic research to find out these
770
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:45.000
materials don't work. These materials don't work, these two they combine,
771
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:47.960
we can make that work anyway. That's just not a
772
00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:50.800
popular call to say we've been researching this for years
773
00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:54.960
and we still haven't found anything. Right, It's counterintuitive, but
774
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:58.519
that's where the real breakthroughs come in. And yeah, I
775
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.119
think that one place where the army or the military
776
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:04.000
has been really good is in this thing creation of
777
00:54:04.039 --> 00:54:07.199
what's called a tiger Tiger team, which I think is
778
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:11.440
actually from Deming, the guy that Demming's fourteen points about industry,
779
00:54:11.960 --> 00:54:15.159
but the military picked that up. They have Tiger teams
780
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:17.440
to this day. But the idea is to bring in
781
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:24.400
several experts personalist, a logistician, an operator, an intelligence expert,
782
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:26.800
you know, all these people come together to really build
783
00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:30.000
a team about how to do something. And I see
784
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:34.079
a lot more kind of stove piping in science, because
785
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:37.639
you know, specialization. You know, if you're really specialized, all
786
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.159
of a sudden you're an expert in something nobody else knows,
787
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:43.480
simply because you've become a little bit smarter. You've spent
788
00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:45.920
your time looking at widgets, you know. But as for
789
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:49.079
the applications of widgets and being able to have a broad,
790
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.599
expansive understanding of all the different ways wigets can be,
791
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.159
that's all another field that almost comes into philosophy or
792
00:54:56.239 --> 00:55:00.679
psychology or those practical applications. So all of that to say,
793
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:05.599
how do we get the bio engineers and the gerontologist
794
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:08.320
and really end the money all in the same room
795
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:11.239
at the same time. And I read and prepped for this.
796
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:17.239
I read your article on longevity technology about the company Intraclear,
797
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:20.880
and it sounds like Interclear got what a lot of
798
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:25.440
companies get. They got a very supportive angel investor to
799
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:28.719
come in and help. And yet it's those supportive angel
800
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:33.360
investors that want the quick turnaround and not kind of
801
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:37.880
the slow money that really government can provide to say, hey,
802
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:40.480
take your time, get this right. This is going to
803
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:44.199
ben a fit everybody wants it's released to the general public.
804
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.480
So what are your other than what you've already told us?
805
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:51.320
Please give us the How do we get the money
806
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.280
and the people in the in the in the room together?
807
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.320
Okay, thank you for a question you ask, how can
808
00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:01.360
we build teams that will involve researchers of different origin
809
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:04.719
and investors so that these teams.
810
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.800
Will have money and all they need to do what
811
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:08.519
we need.
812
00:56:08.679 --> 00:56:14.039
Yes, well, yeah, I mean adversity and experience and specialties.
813
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.079
I don't know that they're each going to break a
814
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.119
pocket full of money, but somebody needs to to get
815
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.880
the research done. And is that a government? Is that
816
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:25.599
a coalition of governments? Is that a coalition of universities.
817
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.480
I'm not sure it's the right place for private equity
818
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:31.840
because it's a long term unless you're going to crank
819
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:35.440
out a new drug or something. Just pharmological team can
820
00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:38.639
do that. But we're talking about longevity, which you know,
821
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:42.199
continued research on the blue zone has showed that not
822
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:44.960
every technique there works, but many of them do. I
823
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.480
mean a lot of that is lifestyle. If you live
824
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:50.280
a lifestyle that's easy on your body, and you take
825
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:54.239
care of yourself and don't get damaged and repair damage
826
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.679
you get. I mean, those things are essential to longevity.
827
00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.559
But there's no profit in me telling anybody that, right,
828
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:02.719
So there's no reason to say, well, I'm want to invest,
829
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:04.199
you know, invest in your company.
830
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:06.519
So people learned to eat to write foods, you know,
831
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:09.079
which I mean, just that's.
832
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:11.280
Not a there's not a no ROI on that, like
833
00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:14.719
immediately for a company to give a company motivation to invest,
834
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:17.440
I mean, how do we draw that money and the
835
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:19.039
multidiscipilary teams together.
836
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:23.400
Okay, you know when you and your colleagues say that
837
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:27.760
it's very unclear which research will give us a working
838
00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:32.440
therapy and which will working therapy, it's right, but not
839
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.320
under one hundred percent. Why because in fact, I was
840
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:40.280
trained as a physicist and work it as a software engineer.
841
00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:45.519
So in these fields we usually before any experiment of
842
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.760
writing the code, we used to make theoretical calculations, whether
843
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:54.400
it was math or just it was some theorizing. But
844
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.079
we before making something by our hands, we must to
845
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:03.599
be shot that it will work at least theoretically, at
846
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:07.719
least from the theoretical point of view. And this training
847
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.760
is very helpful. This helps me a lot in biomedical
848
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:17.480
engineering and regenerative medicine because unfortunately, when I talk to
849
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:22.280
my colleagues from classic medicine or classic biology, unfortunately they
850
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:27.119
do not use theorizing or thought experiments or calculations before
851
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:30.840
making something by hands, and unfinitely many of them work
852
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.280
in the way as let's change this gene and look
853
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:38.119
what will happen. For example, let's try it, or let's
854
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:41.960
try that. I think that real engineer shouldn't work in
855
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:46.159
that way. I'm sure the real engineer should make any
856
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:52.679
experimentation or proposals only based on their good theory. British
857
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:57.199
physicist and philosopher David Deutsch says that the most valuable
858
00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:02.159
thing in the world is a good explanation. So when
859
00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:03.960
you can explain why.
860
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:05.159
Your therapy will work.
861
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:09.280
This is very valuable, and this is a proof, even
862
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:13.280
though theoretical, but nevertheless the proof that it at least
863
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:17.239
can work. It of course doesn't mean that it will work,
864
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:20.719
but at least it can work, and it means that
865
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:25.920
I can see that many, many, many companies and governmental
866
00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:31.400
programs work on the ideas that will not work even theoretically.
867
00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:34.719
So it shocks me. It is a big surprise for
868
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.119
me because I used to work in completely another way
869
00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:41.719
and I think that even though human health is much
870
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:46.079
less predictable than more simple physical systems or computer soft
871
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:50.360
draw but we can in some situations make good predictions
872
00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:54.159
and we should do them. And what I can say,
873
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.679
I have a very very simple and clear recip to
874
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.800
say what will work and which we will not work.
875
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:05.199
For example, if therapy or technology is based on a
876
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:10.360
damage repair approach, so if it reverses some type of damage,
877
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:14.480
it at least may work, and we should put some
878
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:19.920
effort to test it. But if it doesn't clear any
879
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:24.960
type of damage and merely interfer with metabolism to influence
880
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.039
some metabolic pathways, we should not even write because it's
881
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:33.960
completely useless, not at all in the sense that for example,
882
01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:35.119
there is some exception.
883
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.280
Look at chronic inflammation. The mind.
884
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:42.800
Cause of chronic inflammation is a senescent cells that produce
885
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:48.159
various types of inflammatory molecules that influence other cells, and
886
01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:52.159
these cells become This is a secondary sinescence, so called
887
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:57.880
replicative senescence. And in such a way information spreads across
888
01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:01.440
the human organism, and so only truly walking way to
889
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:06.239
get rid of information is synolytics therapy, so the therapy
890
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:10.400
that kills ses and cells, but in some cases.
891
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:12.920
That spoils the bunch. Got to get rid of that
892
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:15.559
one apple before its effects. Can I mean literally in
893
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:18.039
a case of apple that exoodes gas it causes other
894
01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:19.880
apples to run.
895
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:24.679
Yes, yes, yes, but for now. Most anti inflammatory drugs
896
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:28.440
work in another way. They block the receptors of this
897
01:01:28.599 --> 01:01:34.679
inflammatory moleculous so they interferre and inflammatory pathway somewhere near
898
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:36.559
its end, not the beginning.
899
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:40.239
And the consequence is that inflammatory.
900
01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:44.280
Moleculus is spread across organism and do harm, but not
901
01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.800
such a big harm as if we do not block
902
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:51.760
these inflammatory receptors. And the problem is that when we
903
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:56.159
stop to take these anti inflammatory drugs, for example aspirin
904
01:01:56.400 --> 01:02:01.280
or something another informatory quickly return, so they suppress not
905
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:05.960
the inflammatory process but the reaction by theselfs an tissue
906
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:11.079
to that inflammatory moleculus. So we need to indefinitely constantly
907
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:15.039
take these anti inflammatory drugs. And the more importantly, not
908
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:19.039
all inflammation is bad. For example, when we have some
909
01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:23.280
sort of trauma, infection informatory may be good to suppress
910
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:27.519
the cause of this disease. But antiinflammatory drugs do not
911
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:32.840
distinguish between good inflammation and bad inflammation. So in general case,
912
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:36.239
anti inflammatory drugs do not really help people.
913
01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:40.800
They only slightly decrease the harm doing by chronic inflammation.
914
01:02:41.079 --> 01:02:44.719
But they may be good for example, in the case
915
01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:49.639
of acute inflammation, for example, if so called cetochinous storm.
916
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:53.119
You know that condition when for example, people cut some
917
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:58.440
infection and it causes a huge ghurst of inflammatory moleculous
918
01:02:58.599 --> 01:03:02.760
and people can die of this acute inflammation. And in
919
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:06.800
this case, of course, just blocking and inflammatory receptors is
920
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:11.039
a very good idea because organism will conquer the infection
921
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:14.840
and inflammation will drop to its normal level. But in
922
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:19.559
the case on agent information so called inflammation or chronic
923
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:24.519
inflammation by outer immune diseases, for example, these blockers of
924
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.079
inflamatory receptors do not work in that.
925
01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:29.400
Way that we want to.
926
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:34.559
So this is an example that sometimes interfering with biochemical
927
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:38.320
pathways is good, but it's not a solution. It's just
928
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:42.440
a stub for acute cases, for emergency cases. But in
929
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:47.039
combating with aging, we have to use only those solutions
930
01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:51.880
that really affect the cause, that eliminate the cause, so
931
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.719
the damage repair approach, and when we know the mechanism
932
01:03:55.880 --> 01:04:00.440
of therapy, we can certainly say how it walks by
933
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:05.480
demonship pair approach or by interfering with metabolism. And I
934
01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:09.159
think that in the case of long term results, in
935
01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:13.320
the case of really defeating agent, we should put most
936
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:18.360
of our efforts into demonshyp pay approad therapiest. So in fact,
937
01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:21.559
when we're working on the therapy, we cannot guarantee that
938
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:25.079
it will work, but by knowing its mechanisms, we at
939
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:29.480
least know the chances that it will work as expected.
940
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.360
Yes, thank you Ario for that answer, And I do
941
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:37.519
have a bit of a follow up to Alan's questions.
942
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:43.760
So getting some gerontologists and more engineering focused scientists and
943
01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:47.679
investors in the same room has actually been tried several
944
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:53.119
times before, most notably by Calico, which was established by
945
01:04:53.679 --> 01:04:58.760
the founders of Google, as well as now Alto Slabs,
946
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:04.639
which is funded in part by Jeff Bezos, but also
947
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:11.079
Uri Milner and Alto Slabs focuses more on cellular reprogramming. Calico,
948
01:05:11.199 --> 01:05:16.159
it seems, focuses more on fundamental aging science. But in
949
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:20.000
neither of those cases, even though they spent a lot
950
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:25.760
of money hired some of the most recognized and according
951
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:29.400
to some most accomplished scientists in the field, we don't
952
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:32.400
yet see a lot of outputs from either of those
953
01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:38.679
companies in terms of therapies or even translational research or
954
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:44.760
even intermediate results that they've published that could show how
955
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:47.760
aging might be reversed in the future. And there have
956
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:51.239
been some previous situations like this as well. For instance,
957
01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:55.159
Larry Ellison, the founder of Oracle, had donated in the
958
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:58.079
past about two hundred million dollars. He said it was
959
01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:01.320
to anti aging research, but he stopped doing that even
960
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:06.760
sometime during the early last decade the twenty tens. Then
961
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:10.159
there was Peter Teel who donated a few million dollars
962
01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:14.000
to the Sense Research Foundation during its early days and
963
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:17.559
helped it to get launched but he doesn't donate that
964
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:21.800
much to aging research anymore. And then there's Brian Johnson,
965
01:06:22.039 --> 01:06:25.719
who is I would say, very notorious these days for
966
01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:29.039
not actually donating to anti aging research, even though he
967
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:33.960
has the don't die motto. He says AI will solve
968
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:38.840
everything soon, and he has had some negative experiences when
969
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:43.719
he was previously investing in certain projects that didn't work out.
970
01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:45.880
At least that is my impression. But what do you
971
01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:50.159
think explains the fact that there have been these kinds
972
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:54.079
of attempts, including by people with big money, and yet
973
01:06:54.400 --> 01:07:00.000
they haven't resulted in the damage repair approaches being emphasized,
974
01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:04.000
and they haven't resulted in the publication of a lot
975
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:06.559
of promising intermediate results.
976
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:07.760
Even yes, I.
977
01:07:07.719 --> 01:07:10.760
Can comment it in a few words. The case with
978
01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:16.280
Calico is explaining that they failed just because they hire
979
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:21.159
a basic researchers to directors positions, and in fact all
980
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:25.719
their research was directed by basic researchers, and doctor b
981
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:30.360
Degray said it's about it almost ten years ago, so.
982
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.679
It's no surprise. It's no surprise.
983
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:37.760
Much more surprisingly to me that almost every case when
984
01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:42.920
some wealthy people try to fund some anti agent research,
985
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:46.960
in almost every case they spend their money not on
986
01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:51.599
the damage repay approach, but on the classic gerontological approach.
987
01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:55.280
And it's quite surprised to me, but it may be
988
01:07:55.280 --> 01:07:58.920
because how people who do not know anything about the
989
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:02.679
generative medicine and will decide to whom he will give
990
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:05.960
his money. How I think they all behave in the
991
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:10.760
same way. They look at the social media or newspapers
992
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:15.480
and they see some names of well known gerontologists and
993
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:19.520
they ask them and they suggest them to whom to
994
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:22.760
give their money. And this is a vicious circle. Why
995
01:08:22.800 --> 01:08:26.239
it all fails in the end, and I think that
996
01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:30.640
this is because people fall in the big misconception that
997
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:36.920
gerontology is something about fighting against agent. No, gerontology is
998
01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:42.399
about studying agent, while regenerative medicine is about curing agent
999
01:08:42.600 --> 01:08:46.199
or any other type of damage or bad condition to
1000
01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:51.159
human organism. And I never heard about that project is
1001
01:08:51.159 --> 01:08:56.720
called medical engineering project or generative medicine project. All of
1002
01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:02.039
them are called something like anti agent project or agent project.
1003
01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:05.359
And I think it's the reason why all this happened.
1004
01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:09.439
And I already said about that we can switch focus
1005
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:14.079
from gerontology to regenerative medicine and state that it is
1006
01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:18.279
an engineering. And one of the problems is that anti
1007
01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:23.479
agent and anti aging research is seen by many biomedical
1008
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:30.119
engineers as quite marginalized field, and many biomedical engineers whom
1009
01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:34.199
I know personally do not want to associate themselves with
1010
01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:38.319
this field, with anti agent, this longevity, with all these
1011
01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:42.399
words and groups of people they work on real generative
1012
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:47.880
medicine that will really reverse agent, but they never said
1013
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:53.079
about their work as anti aging medicine or something like that.
1014
01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:58.239
They call like work precisely biomedical engineering or generative medicine.
1015
01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:02.119
And this is I think the reason why these things happen.
1016
01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:06.119
The people who really work on anti aging treatments do
1017
01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:09.159
not call these anti agent treatments and do not be
1018
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:13.199
associated with that field, mainly for historical reasons.
1019
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:18.600
Probably yes, And I've had conversations with doctor Bill Andrews
1020
01:10:18.640 --> 01:10:22.840
about this. He pointed out that in the anti aging field,
1021
01:10:22.880 --> 01:10:26.840
the so called snake oil salesman came first and the
1022
01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:31.720
reputable scientists came later. But there has been a kind
1023
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:37.479
of reputational stain on the anti aging field because initially,
1024
01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:42.000
say in the early nineteen hundreds, it was associated with
1025
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:46.720
a lot of quacks and charlatans who would sell substances
1026
01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:50.560
of dubious validity marketed as anti aging substances, and sometimes
1027
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:54.840
they would have damaging components like cocaine for instance, or
1028
01:10:55.079 --> 01:11:01.159
various poisonous substances, and unfortunately that tainted persons still lingers
1029
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:06.720
in certain corners of the scientific community. Now, Alan does
1030
01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:12.079
have a follow up question in terms of wealthy individuals
1031
01:11:12.079 --> 01:11:16.600
who used to fund anti aging research to a significant extent,
1032
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:20.199
whether or not it was funded optimally, and he wonders
1033
01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:24.840
did they stop funding that research altogether or did they
1034
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:29.319
stop funding it publicly? He also wonders, maybe the wealthy
1035
01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:32.319
have their own teams working on this just for them.
1036
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:35.880
And on the one hand, we know that Brian Johnson
1037
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.920
has a medical team of his own, but that medical
1038
01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:46.279
team is very openly discussed and primarily they are there
1039
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:53.279
to set up various diagnostic procedures, measure biomarkers, monitor for
1040
01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:58.760
unforeseen consequences, intervene if there's a need to do that.
1041
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:03.159
So Brian Johnson and has a very clear personal health
1042
01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:07.239
optimization goal and this medical team is doing that for him.
1043
01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:12.520
What do you think about others who have previously taken
1044
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:14.840
an interest in funding anti aging research. Do you think
1045
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.920
they have their own medical teams, and do you think
1046
01:12:16.960 --> 01:12:21.159
those teams are also focused on damage repair to some extent?
1047
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:27.039
So Larry Ellison, interestingly enough, was recently given praise for
1048
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:31.800
his appearance, and even Brian Johnson praised him. Larry Ellison
1049
01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:34.319
is eighty years old, and if you look at pictures
1050
01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:36.880
of him, he looks like he's sixty five. So if
1051
01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:42.239
there's this plus or minus fifteen year difference between chronological
1052
01:12:42.279 --> 01:12:48.800
agent biological age, Larry Ellison may have maximized the let's say,
1053
01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:52.840
slowing down of biological aging that could be achieved using
1054
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:57.119
today's technologies. But do you think this is more widespread
1055
01:12:57.119 --> 01:13:00.119
than commonly known or are they just using techniques that
1056
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:02.439
everybody knows about and they just have more money to
1057
01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:03.560
devote to that.
1058
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:09.159
In fact, many ways to create regenerative therapies to reverse
1059
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:13.279
agent are known. They are published in scientific publications, and
1060
01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:18.560
to replicate them or to create them using these publications,
1061
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:21.920
I think any good bio engineering lab can do this.
1062
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:25.079
So I will not be surprised.
1063
01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:29.600
If there are some offshore clinics or boratories that privately
1064
01:13:29.720 --> 01:13:34.880
afford such therapies to wealthy individuals, because, as I said above,
1065
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:38.520
we already know enough about agent to fight against it.
1066
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:41.479
And the only reason why we cannot see this in
1067
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:46.039
usual clinics is lack of funding in medical regulation. Some
1068
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:50.000
of the already said and some I will said in
1069
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:54.439
the last next section. So I do not know such cases,
1070
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:57.920
but I'm sure that this is completely possible with current
1071
01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:01.800
state of by medical engineering medicine to do many of
1072
01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.760
these therapiest and offer them privately.
1073
01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:10.039
Yes, thank you for that answer, and I think right
1074
01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:13.199
now it would be a good idea to proceed to
1075
01:14:13.239 --> 01:14:16.600
the next part of your presentation, so please go ahead.
1076
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:22.560
Okay, Next is problems with private investing. Previous was governmental
1077
01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:26.600
funding and now problems with private investing. And I think
1078
01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:30.199
that the private sector should play a lead role in
1079
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:34.800
funding regumination therapiest. But unfortunately, what we can see, in
1080
01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:38.760
my opinion, it's very terrible that many so called digital
1081
01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:43.319
health companies reserve twenty to fifty hundred millions of dollars,
1082
01:14:43.359 --> 01:14:48.399
while VET bioengineering companies, which work on true regenerative therapies
1083
01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:53.640
that can cure incurable pathologies, cannot get five miserable five
1084
01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:57.239
to fifteen millions of dollars to finish their work. I
1085
01:14:57.279 --> 01:15:02.960
can name two companies which have wonderful, wonderful technologies. First
1086
01:15:03.159 --> 01:15:07.720
is olsen Biotechnologists is an American company laid by Gary Hudson.
1087
01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:11.079
You know them, I hope and I talked to them
1088
01:15:11.199 --> 01:15:14.520
a few months ago and he said that they struggled
1089
01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:18.720
to find a needed amount of money to finish the
1090
01:15:18.840 --> 01:15:24.039
gene therapy against senescen cells and against cancer. But likely
1091
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:30.399
their pathna company Phusogenics, which created a fantastic delivery system
1092
01:15:31.079 --> 01:15:36.560
so called proteolypied vehicle, which is a microliposomus microscopic spheres
1093
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:41.880
of double layer liipids which entrusted by so called phusogenic proteins.
1094
01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:46.760
These proteins were gathered from viruses which used them to
1095
01:15:47.199 --> 01:15:51.000
get into the cells through the celling brain. And the
1096
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:55.720
way they use these microlipasomis with these phusogenic proteins on
1097
01:15:55.840 --> 01:16:01.880
their sofas. These microlipasomas are quickly use with celling brain
1098
01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:06.720
and deliver their moleculous inside them into the cell. And
1099
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:11.000
these moleculous are usually NA or DNA for gene therapy.
1100
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:12.479
And this unique.
1101
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:18.359
Technology that much supero than traditional virus systems for delivering
1102
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:24.000
gene therapy and the company Fusogenics got twenty millions of dollars,
1103
01:16:24.119 --> 01:16:28.600
but unfortunately not from a United States investment company, but
1104
01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:33.600
from a Canadian investment company. So it's quite ridiculous that
1105
01:16:33.880 --> 01:16:38.600
one of the most innovative American companies cannot find money
1106
01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.920
in its own country and get invested by Canadian investors.
1107
01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:47.840
I think it's a shame for American investors and venture
1108
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:52.239
companies that they do not invest their own companies that
1109
01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:55.439
have technology much supero.
1110
01:16:55.079 --> 01:16:57.079
Than anyone have in the world.
1111
01:16:57.239 --> 01:17:01.840
But unfortunately there is in Byteicnology company itself is still
1112
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:05.359
in need of money. They still cannot find an investment
1113
01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:09.720
for their fantastic gene therapy that can make a revolution
1114
01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:16.079
in treatment of chronic inflammation and cancer. They publish interviews
1115
01:17:16.119 --> 01:17:20.720
about their technology in longevity technology, and I took interview
1116
01:17:20.840 --> 01:17:23.920
with Gary Hudson some years ago and they can be
1117
01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:25.840
found on my blog and medium.
1118
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:27.760
So this is one example.
1119
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:32.479
And second example is Covalent Bus Sciences company which I'm
1120
01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:33.279
helping now.
1121
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:35.319
I'm trying to help them now.
1122
01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:38.880
Already they are closing because of lack of money, and
1123
01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:43.960
they try to get money for seven years and unsuccessfully,
1124
01:17:44.239 --> 01:17:49.279
and they have as a fantastic therapy as oisin's therapy
1125
01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:53.880
against inflammation and cancer against innocent cells and cancer cells.
1126
01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:59.239
Covalent bu sciences technology is catalytic antibody technology. Of course,
1127
01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:03.680
know how conventional antibodies. They are widely used in medicine
1128
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:07.880
today and they work in such a way. These antibodies
1129
01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:13.479
stick to antigens, unwanted cells or moleculars. For example, it
1130
01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:18.760
may be broken proteins or infectious agents like viruses or bacteria,
1131
01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:25.000
and they mark these unwanted agents for immune system and immune.
1132
01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:26.000
Cells macro facts.
1133
01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:30.680
They are guided by these antibodies that sticks to the
1134
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:35.760
foreign agents or unwanted or dangerous agents. They engulf these
1135
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:41.239
moleculous or organisms and kill them or break them. For example,
1136
01:18:41.319 --> 01:18:45.239
in such a way works antibodies against alghemer disease, against
1137
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:49.560
other types of amyloids or tau proteins. They stick to
1138
01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:53.760
these moleculars and then immune cells destroy this moleculus. But
1139
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:56.920
there is a big side effect of such a way.
1140
01:18:57.159 --> 01:19:02.199
The side effect is acute inflammation because they activate immuni system.
1141
01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:07.520
It leads to acute inflammation and may lead to citachino
1142
01:19:07.600 --> 01:19:09.720
storm and a quick death.
1143
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:10.239
Of a patient.
1144
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:15.279
Even if they do not lead to acute inflammation it anyway,
1145
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:20.039
and constant activation of immune system leads to chronic inflammation
1146
01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:25.600
which mainly breaks all good effects of these consequences. The
1147
01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:30.560
side effects this chronic inflammation shadows the good effects of
1148
01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:35.520
this therapy. So yes, this therapy clear for example Brian
1149
01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:39.319
from better ameloid, but at the same time they influence
1150
01:19:39.479 --> 01:19:42.680
a chronic inflammation in the bran and this chronic inflammation
1151
01:19:42.880 --> 01:19:47.359
do the same harm that better ameloid did previously. So
1152
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:51.600
this is the reason why patients almost do not benefit
1153
01:19:51.800 --> 01:19:57.319
from these types of treatments. But Colin Biosciences invented a
1154
01:19:57.399 --> 01:20:02.279
completely new type of antipo this so called catalytic antibodies.
1155
01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:05.600
They work in completely another way. They do not recruit
1156
01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:10.199
immune system to destroy these unwanted moleculus or bacterias. They
1157
01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:15.439
behave like enzymes themselves. They stick to unwanted moleculars and
1158
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:19.520
break them without a recruiting immune system, so there is
1159
01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:24.239
no chronic inflammation and because of these enzymes themselves, each
1160
01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:30.159
these catalytic antibody can destroy about one thousand unwanted moleculars
1161
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:33.319
in a soccle before it will be destroyed itself, so
1162
01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:37.840
it's a fantastic therapy that will change the game in
1163
01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:43.359
treating out immune and neurodegenerative conditions. And they need about
1164
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.279
five to fifteen millions of dollars to finish their work,
1165
01:20:47.359 --> 01:20:50.720
and they cannot get them for whole seven years. I
1166
01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:53.960
now try to help them, and I'm looking for investors
1167
01:20:53.960 --> 01:20:57.920
in Israel and Canadian now and I will try to
1168
01:20:58.279 --> 01:21:03.039
communicate with our Perhaden because these people are really tired
1169
01:21:03.239 --> 01:21:07.479
of this uncertainty and they decided to close their company
1170
01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:11.920
because they cannot believe they can get money for their work.
1171
01:21:12.199 --> 01:21:16.199
These people walk in the lab or in Texas University
1172
01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:20.760
in Houston, and medical center in Texas University in Houston
1173
01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:24.640
is the biggest medical center, the biggest university is medical
1174
01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:27.840
center in the whole world. And I really cannot understand
1175
01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:31.640
why no government, no private investors want to invest a
1176
01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:35.479
real bioengineering and regenerative medicine companies.
1177
01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:38.720
And I can see a big big shift in.
1178
01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:43.159
Funding from real lab work companies, wet lub companies too,
1179
01:21:43.399 --> 01:21:46.760
so called digital health companies. But it is important to
1180
01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:50.399
know that human health is biological, not digital, and mobile
1181
01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:53.720
up cannot cure people and reverse their agent.
1182
01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:55.800
Only true that therapy can.
1183
01:21:55.840 --> 01:22:00.479
Even their Computer modeling is widely used in biomedical engineering,
1184
01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:05.279
for example, to model some drug to target interaction, to
1185
01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:10.399
predict their behavior, to construct and design new moleculars small
1186
01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:15.199
moleculars and biological moleculars like proteins, for example, but it's
1187
01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:19.560
completely nather type of research. The computer modeling in bimedical
1188
01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:23.119
engineering is a completely valid type of research that is
1189
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:29.319
helpful in designing new therapies, but just creating rice so
1190
01:22:29.399 --> 01:22:35.279
called artificial intelligence systems that allegedly can main databases of
1191
01:22:35.439 --> 01:22:40.479
small moleculars and predict their usability of label use, I
1192
01:22:40.520 --> 01:22:44.279
think is a complete waste of money because we cannot
1193
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:46.079
get any new information from this.
1194
01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:48.640
We just spend.
1195
01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:53.800
Electricity, computer resources, and investors' money for nothing. In fact,
1196
01:22:54.079 --> 01:22:58.279
and such things harm our economy and healthcare and how
1197
01:22:58.399 --> 01:23:01.680
many more people must die to The investors' attitude is
1198
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:05.279
towards true regenerative medicine, and I think there are two
1199
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:09.359
reasons why investors are in favor of so called digital
1200
01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:13.439
health companies as opposed to that bio engineering companies.
1201
01:23:13.640 --> 01:23:15.520
One of the reasons is just.
1202
01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:20.560
A lack of knowledge and a misconception because investors is
1203
01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:24.079
just people and many of them do not have enough
1204
01:23:24.119 --> 01:23:28.960
knowledge in bodics, biology, bio engineering, medicine. They think that
1205
01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:33.239
and artificial intelligence and so called digital.
1206
01:23:32.840 --> 01:23:34.960
Health is very popular now.
1207
01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:39.199
Everyone talk about them, and they think that it's school
1208
01:23:39.319 --> 01:23:43.199
things because people talk about them and they want to
1209
01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:46.359
invest in cool things, and they invest in them just.
1210
01:23:46.399 --> 01:23:48.000
Because of lack of knowledge.
1211
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:52.560
The other reason is much more dangerous because these people,
1212
01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:56.760
these investors who invest in these kind of companies initially
1213
01:23:56.800 --> 01:24:00.560
do not want to get useful results. All I want
1214
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:04.159
is to invest in a company some money, then make
1215
01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:08.079
a bubble from that company, so their price would be
1216
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:12.079
much bigger than their investments. And they'll then sell that
1217
01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:17.399
company to another investor, a secondary investor, and this secondary
1218
01:24:17.439 --> 01:24:20.760
investor will do the same. They will put some money
1219
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:24.920
in this company and make even bigger bubble from that company,
1220
01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:29.079
and finally sell to the third investor, who usually will
1221
01:24:29.119 --> 01:24:33.399
be some big pharma company that can pay billions of
1222
01:24:33.479 --> 01:24:38.039
dollars for that company, and many big pharma companies by company,
1223
01:24:38.079 --> 01:24:41.960
not to make some result from it, but just in case,
1224
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:46.159
just to get rid of a concurrence. So only result
1225
01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:50.880
from this chain of bubbles is spend of money. And
1226
01:24:51.199 --> 01:24:55.439
finally big pharmer will pay for that without getting anything useful.
1227
01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:59.920
And I think at least my duty is to inform
1228
01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:04.760
public or people about these two reasons and to fight
1229
01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:10.359
them by first giving people through information about which approaches
1230
01:25:10.520 --> 01:25:14.640
work and which approaches do not work, and secondly say
1231
01:25:14.680 --> 01:25:18.880
about such bad schemes when people make a bubble from
1232
01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:23.560
companies just to sell it for high price. And on
1233
01:25:23.640 --> 01:25:24.920
the one.
1234
01:25:24.520 --> 01:25:26.920
Side of the spectra is such.
1235
01:25:26.720 --> 01:25:31.600
And amazing companies like oison By Technologies and Compalant Bar Sciences.
1236
01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:35.119
The other side of the spectra, for example, I will
1237
01:25:35.119 --> 01:25:40.640
not name these companies to not make them free advertisements,
1238
01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:44.119
but you all know them and this company get really
1239
01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:46.560
big money, hundreds of millions of dollars.
1240
01:25:46.600 --> 01:25:48.199
For example, one of.
1241
01:25:47.960 --> 01:25:52.279
These companies got twenty million dollars from Jim Mellon without
1242
01:25:52.359 --> 01:25:56.199
any supporting date and for whattch and the seal of
1243
01:25:56.279 --> 01:26:00.399
this company pretend to be a researcher, but.
1244
01:26:00.159 --> 01:26:02.439
In fact his Facebook is full.
1245
01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:07.720
Of photographs from conferences, airports, gyms and beautiful girls. And
1246
01:26:07.880 --> 01:26:11.159
at the same time he has more publications than many
1247
01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:16.399
real researchers. Mike Coligues who invented these amazing catalytic County
1248
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:20.039
boardies from covalent both sciences, for example, and he's only
1249
01:26:20.159 --> 01:26:23.439
forty five years old, and it's a shame from.
1250
01:26:23.199 --> 01:26:24.119
My point of view.
1251
01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:28.760
Okay, before I will continue the last section about medical regulation,
1252
01:26:29.119 --> 01:26:31.840
I ask you for questions.
1253
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:36.399
All right, thank you, Ariel, and I will note that
1254
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:39.199
you are to be applauded for your efforts to save
1255
01:26:39.319 --> 01:26:43.960
covalent biosciences and this seems to be a larger tendency
1256
01:26:44.479 --> 01:26:50.800
within the field of longevity. That funding has greatly diminished
1257
01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:55.640
over the past several years, especially around twenty twenty two
1258
01:26:55.800 --> 01:27:00.920
to today, compared to the preceding five years or so,
1259
01:27:01.039 --> 01:27:04.239
the funding has really dried up, and so a lot
1260
01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:10.119
of companies or charities that focus on we lab research
1261
01:27:10.399 --> 01:27:15.439
are experiencing difficulties attracting either investors or donors, and this
1262
01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:18.359
does need to change, and we in the Transhumanist Party
1263
01:27:18.399 --> 01:27:22.960
would urge for more funding for such research from any sources.
1264
01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:25.840
And if you are a private individual with the means
1265
01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:29.640
to support such organizations, please do so. I'll also ask
1266
01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:32.840
art Ramon if he has any questions before we move them.
1267
01:27:33.319 --> 01:27:34.920
Just a few observations.
1268
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:38.359
Since I've sort of been involved with transhumanism, I used
1269
01:27:38.359 --> 01:27:41.359
to see a lot of articles on super soldiers.
1270
01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:43.159
I'm not saying these articles.
1271
01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:45.800
Anymore any taug of super soldiers. And one of the
1272
01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:50.000
reasons I thought they were sort of onetain. I'd say
1273
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:52.800
I was a person involved in Darba H. You know,
1274
01:27:52.880 --> 01:27:57.359
I would want super human super soldiers to send them
1275
01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:00.680
out into deep space, and you know deep space it
1276
01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:03.479
could take forever, so you want someone with you know,
1277
01:28:03.560 --> 01:28:07.239
a long lifespan. But I think somewhere along the line
1278
01:28:07.399 --> 01:28:10.279
they decided that maybe it's better to just go digital.
1279
01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:15.760
You have artificial intelligence and the robotic platforms, and not
1280
01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:20.439
worry about having a long aged human outdoing deep exploration
1281
01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:24.600
because you know, mental health issues family that could be
1282
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:25.600
more problematic.
1283
01:28:25.680 --> 01:28:28.079
And maybe it has decided to.
1284
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:31.960
Cut out the super sodial program of longevity.
1285
01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:35.840
That's my thinking from just what and then you have
1286
01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:36.199
to do.
1287
01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:39.239
A use of AI in using AI to help you
1288
01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:43.840
find you know, a solution to the longevity. So maybe
1289
01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:47.399
they just decided to put all thebody into the digital.
1290
01:28:47.079 --> 01:28:51.159
Part and not the biological. Just just my observation over
1291
01:28:51.199 --> 01:28:51.720
the years.
1292
01:28:52.079 --> 01:28:55.239
Okay, what is the question, No questions, It was just
1293
01:28:55.279 --> 01:28:59.239
about question if you want to respond to any if
1294
01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:02.000
you know anything that, feel.
1295
01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:02.479
Free to respond.
1296
01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:06.199
Yes, there is some people who talk about so called
1297
01:29:06.319 --> 01:29:11.159
mind applauding, but I quite skeptical about it, because any
1298
01:29:11.439 --> 01:29:15.239
digital copy of the human mind will be just a copy,
1299
01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:20.079
so it will not help the biological original in any way.
1300
01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:24.600
So I prefer another way to switch from the biological
1301
01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:29.399
human nature to something on another fundament. In fact, it
1302
01:29:29.479 --> 01:29:32.560
is possible and there is no contradiction in that. The
1303
01:29:32.720 --> 01:29:36.479
approach to do that was suggested by Polish science fiction
1304
01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:42.720
writer stanislavlem as loan As in fifties or sixties years
1305
01:29:42.760 --> 01:29:46.840
of the twenties century. And the approach is that we
1306
01:29:47.159 --> 01:29:50.680
do not make a digital copy by the human mind
1307
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:55.439
by some sort of recording their electricical activity. But we
1308
01:29:55.720 --> 01:30:00.000
since human brain consists of individual cells, we just replace
1309
01:30:00.520 --> 01:30:04.760
cell by cell by artificial cells nature biological cells by
1310
01:30:04.840 --> 01:30:09.159
artificial cells, and during this course, which will take some
1311
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:14.920
long time, the brain finally will consist only of artificial cells.
1312
01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.800
In such a way, we will really switch human brain
1313
01:30:18.920 --> 01:30:24.079
from biological nature to some artificial nature without interrupting the
1314
01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:29.319
human identity. Because human identity is a continuous process. It's
1315
01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:32.720
not a state, it's a process. It's a continuous process,
1316
01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:37.119
and to preserve human identity we must not intrope this process.
1317
01:30:37.399 --> 01:30:40.880
So in such a way we can replace human brain
1318
01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:45.760
by artificial brain, just by replacing cell by cell during
1319
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:50.039
some long time. And similar approaches are tied to so
1320
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:56.399
called nanomachinists approaches or nanomedicine, where small tiny micro nanomachinists
1321
01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:59.119
the size of a virus or bacteria are in world,
1322
01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:04.159
and they program it to regenerate human organism and putting
1323
01:31:04.279 --> 01:31:09.880
into our bloodstream, they can multiply and finally replace all
1324
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:14.960
human cells by artificial constructions, and so this human will
1325
01:31:15.159 --> 01:31:18.920
not be of biological nature anymore, but some kind of
1326
01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:22.800
sort of artificial nature. But of course all these proposals
1327
01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:27.800
currently are highly speculative and there are some technical problems
1328
01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:32.000
in implementing them, even though they are completely valid from
1329
01:31:32.119 --> 01:31:35.479
a theoretical point of view. Unfortunately, we still do not
1330
01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:39.279
have such a technology to implement it for now, and
1331
01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:43.800
as a physicist see some very big problems in implementing
1332
01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:47.399
nan machinists. For example, as you know, all our big
1333
01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:52.840
machinists communicate using electromagnetic waves. But the issue is that
1334
01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:57.800
all nanomachinists are smaller than the length of the electromagnetic wave,
1335
01:31:58.279 --> 01:32:02.199
even very small wave, so to communicate they use some
1336
01:32:02.239 --> 01:32:05.880
sort of very short wave for example X rays, That
1337
01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:09.439
of course impossible inside the human organism, so we have
1338
01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:14.439
to invade another way of communication between the net of nanomachinists.
1339
01:32:14.600 --> 01:32:17.880
So there is a big problem I'm thinking about, and
1340
01:32:18.119 --> 01:32:21.800
I want to consult with other physicists about what they
1341
01:32:21.960 --> 01:32:25.159
think about solving it. So this is why I think
1342
01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:28.520
we must put all our efforts for now for a
1343
01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:32.920
VET bioengineering approach. And of course a problem with long
1344
01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:37.199
term space flights can be solved by either creating nearly
1345
01:32:37.279 --> 01:32:42.399
infinitely long humans by implementing a DiamondSure pay approach, together
1346
01:32:42.600 --> 01:32:47.359
with for example, using some sort of suspended animation, which
1347
01:32:47.439 --> 01:32:50.840
also I know there was a program in NASA to
1348
01:32:50.880 --> 01:32:56.000
study possible suspended animation implementing suspended animation for humans, and
1349
01:32:56.199 --> 01:32:59.600
there were some progress, but I cannot see any use
1350
01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:03.119
recent news about it, so I don't know whether this
1351
01:33:03.239 --> 01:33:06.880
program is still exists or work or was closed. But
1352
01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:10.319
of course this is a very important, very important and
1353
01:33:10.520 --> 01:33:14.479
valid area of research. Spend it animation of humans. It
1354
01:33:14.560 --> 01:33:17.319
can be used not only in long term spaceflight, but
1355
01:33:17.479 --> 01:33:21.319
to saving lives of those individuals who cannot be cured
1356
01:33:21.439 --> 01:33:25.000
just now and can be put in a low temperature
1357
01:33:25.079 --> 01:33:30.079
state to preserve body to be revived and cured somewhere
1358
01:33:30.119 --> 01:33:30.840
in the future.
1359
01:33:31.279 --> 01:33:35.720
Yes, thank you very much for that answer. And now
1360
01:33:36.159 --> 01:33:40.279
please proceed with the concluding portion of your presentation.
1361
01:33:41.279 --> 01:33:44.319
Okay, this is not in fact a conclusion. I hope
1362
01:33:44.359 --> 01:33:47.520
a conclusion will be given by you. I will finish
1363
01:33:47.600 --> 01:33:51.960
my conversation with a fifth part of it, and it
1364
01:33:52.079 --> 01:33:56.119
is about problems with medical regulation, and I think that
1365
01:33:56.399 --> 01:33:59.560
it is another problem, very big problem. One of the
1366
01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:03.760
main problems I think is excessive medical regulation, which causes
1367
01:34:03.920 --> 01:34:08.600
lack of translational research, especially in Europe, UK and the US.
1368
01:34:08.920 --> 01:34:13.199
The irony is that these countries make almost all biomedical
1369
01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:17.600
research on our planet, and some guys calculated that bringing
1370
01:34:17.760 --> 01:34:22.079
new therapy to the US market now costs about two
1371
01:34:22.399 --> 01:34:26.479
and five billion dollars and fifteen years on average. Even
1372
01:34:26.520 --> 01:34:29.800
there on average cannot tell us the whole picture, and
1373
01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:33.600
some new therapists like immune therapists for cancer, for example,
1374
01:34:33.720 --> 01:34:37.560
or gene therapists for life threatening conditions, were approved in
1375
01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:42.039
merely five years. These numbers are scary. One issue is
1376
01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:45.720
that these rules for clinical trials were written and had
1377
01:34:45.840 --> 01:34:50.760
some sense for the pharmaceuticals therapists based on small mediculas
1378
01:34:50.800 --> 01:34:55.199
whose behavior and whose side effects are really hard to predict.
1379
01:34:55.520 --> 01:35:00.800
Unlike them, biological therapiests or so called biologics be designed
1380
01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:05.840
to be metabolically inert because they just eliminate the key damage.
1381
01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:09.159
They do not need to interfer with metabolism, so it
1382
01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:12.600
is much easier for them than usual to avoid side
1383
01:35:12.640 --> 01:35:15.119
effects and interactions.
1384
01:35:14.399 --> 01:35:15.640
With other therapists.
1385
01:35:15.680 --> 01:35:20.000
For example, gene therapy does not inhibit your liver enzymes
1386
01:35:20.159 --> 01:35:24.680
or overlord your kidneys. Like many small molecular treatments, there
1387
01:35:24.720 --> 01:35:29.399
consist of the same moleculars irona, proteins, lipids, like human
1388
01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:33.039
organisms does when they have done their job, they are
1389
01:35:33.159 --> 01:35:37.600
just quickly degraded by cells or machinery. So all biologics
1390
01:35:37.760 --> 01:35:40.800
consist of the same building blocks of the same moleculars
1391
01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:44.680
that all other moleculars in human organisms, so there is
1392
01:35:44.720 --> 01:35:48.439
no difference between them and when they done their job.
1393
01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:54.039
The cell machinery like ironazes, sell enzymes, like ironazes, proteases
1394
01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:58.680
s lipazes. They break all these components of the gene, cell,
1395
01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:03.000
or immune or enzyme therapy to their primary molecules and
1396
01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:05.880
they are used again in the human organism.
1397
01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:07.720
So this new common.
1398
01:36:07.560 --> 01:36:12.960
Medicine uses completely different repair basets rather than compensatery approach
1399
01:36:13.239 --> 01:36:17.560
and needs completely different clinical trials protocols and the whole
1400
01:36:17.600 --> 01:36:21.159
new health paradigm the health party which is not disease
1401
01:36:21.279 --> 01:36:26.359
oriented or symptoms oriented like current medical paradigm, but damage
1402
01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:31.079
oriented paradigm. And I think these have to be implemented
1403
01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:37.560
in the FDA documents and current policy making in medical area.
1404
01:36:37.760 --> 01:36:41.159
Another much more important issue is that no one wants
1405
01:36:41.239 --> 01:36:45.479
to take responsibility for patients health and life. Regular lettors
1406
01:36:45.560 --> 01:36:49.479
prefer patients to die from their pathology rather than from
1407
01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:50.239
the therapy.
1408
01:36:50.520 --> 01:36:52.039
This is because in.
1409
01:36:52.000 --> 01:36:56.119
Our system, in our current system, if patient who will
1410
01:36:56.199 --> 01:37:00.760
die anyway from his or her condition from pathology, this
1411
01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:04.279
is considered to be normal and no one can be
1412
01:37:04.319 --> 01:37:07.840
accused of crime because they cannot save a life of
1413
01:37:07.880 --> 01:37:12.479
a patient if this patient die of an incurable condition. However,
1414
01:37:12.720 --> 01:37:16.960
if patient dies from the new experimental therapy, all people
1415
01:37:17.039 --> 01:37:20.920
from the regulation and clinical chine can be charged and
1416
01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:23.640
can be accused of crime. So for them it is
1417
01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:27.239
much safer to do nothing than do anything. They cannot
1418
01:37:27.239 --> 01:37:30.800
be charged when millions of people die because they don't
1419
01:37:30.880 --> 01:37:34.920
approve new experimental therapy, so they are not interested in
1420
01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:38.680
bringing new therapies to the clinic. This is much scarier,
1421
01:37:38.960 --> 01:37:42.600
and the most important is that it is not because
1422
01:37:42.920 --> 01:37:46.680
of these people are bad and they hate other people
1423
01:37:46.720 --> 01:37:49.880
and do want to cure them. But this is just
1424
01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.159
a feature of the system, just because they do not
1425
01:37:53.520 --> 01:37:56.640
want to risk their own lives and their careers.
1426
01:37:56.920 --> 01:38:00.760
So it must to be changed. I believe just imaging.
1427
01:38:00.880 --> 01:38:04.640
Millions of people die from conditions we can already cure,
1428
01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:08.159
and the a few countries which has enough resources to
1429
01:38:08.239 --> 01:38:12.239
work on them, make such therapies illegal in failing attempt
1430
01:38:12.319 --> 01:38:15.760
to save the status score, while clinical trials bottleneck is
1431
01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:19.600
so narrow that many therapists will not see their patients
1432
01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:23.920
for many more years. Meanwhile, many Asian countries show green
1433
01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:28.119
light for new experimental therapies, for example the Fast Track
1434
01:38:28.199 --> 01:38:32.560
Approval system in Japan, which was introduced back in twenty
1435
01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:33.359
fourteen years.
1436
01:38:33.399 --> 01:38:34.720
The system I aimed.
1437
01:38:34.520 --> 01:38:39.239
To increase access to regenerative medicines by introducing laws that
1438
01:38:39.399 --> 01:38:43.239
allow for emergent treatments to be used so long that
1439
01:38:43.359 --> 01:38:46.359
they have been proven safe that the only hints of
1440
01:38:46.399 --> 01:38:47.399
their effectiveness.
1441
01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:49.520
It means in.
1442
01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:53.359
The United States terms, that therapy can be used in
1443
01:38:53.439 --> 01:38:56.600
clinic just after safety trials.
1444
01:38:56.880 --> 01:38:58.520
Just after safety.
1445
01:38:58.119 --> 01:39:01.880
Trials face it can be used in clinics, and the
1446
01:39:02.039 --> 01:39:06.000
other results that need to give this therapy raial medical
1447
01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:09.760
status will gather it during the course of its pine
1448
01:39:09.880 --> 01:39:13.920
in clinics, so people have a chance to be cured
1449
01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:16.640
by this new therapy if it really works.
1450
01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:18.920
And this system is aimed to.
1451
01:39:19.039 --> 01:39:23.119
Increase access to the generative medicines Pentodius laws and that
1452
01:39:23.239 --> 01:39:25.920
allows for emergent treatments to be used so long as
1453
01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:29.279
they have been proven safe with only hints of their effectiveness.
1454
01:39:29.399 --> 01:39:33.399
The idea is that as patients reserve these safe treatments,
1455
01:39:33.520 --> 01:39:37.279
more conclusive date on their efficacy can be gathered thereafter.
1456
01:39:37.479 --> 01:39:40.800
This negates the need for large scale clinical trials that
1457
01:39:40.880 --> 01:39:43.399
take place over several years and cost.
1458
01:39:43.199 --> 01:39:44.319
Hundreds of millions.
1459
01:39:44.359 --> 01:39:48.399
As a counter example, in the USA, because of insane regulation,
1460
01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:51.840
it is almost impossible to release emergent therapy to the
1461
01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:55.199
market and the cost of the process, including clinical trials
1462
01:39:55.319 --> 01:39:58.239
is at least two and five billion dollars. The spit
1463
01:39:58.319 --> 01:40:01.720
of the big number of inventions by American scientists and
1464
01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:06.920
engineers the first place in the world by invention American researchers.
1465
01:40:07.039 --> 01:40:10.840
Only a few of these therapists have entered human clinical trials,
1466
01:40:10.880 --> 01:40:13.760
and only a few of them have reached the market. Finally,
1467
01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:17.840
and many such therapies are already in development of clinical trials,
1468
01:40:17.920 --> 01:40:20.760
and others will arrive in the coming years. And this
1469
01:40:21.039 --> 01:40:25.439
new emerging medicine uses completely different as I said above,
1470
01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:29.439
repair basic rather than compensatory approach and needs different clinical
1471
01:40:29.439 --> 01:40:33.359
trials protocols. And the whole new health parody and traditional
1472
01:40:33.439 --> 01:40:36.720
period has already begun and we should use it wisely
1473
01:40:36.840 --> 01:40:39.640
to save more human leaves. But on the other hand,
1474
01:40:39.880 --> 01:40:44.119
prohibitions force people to be inventive, and biohickers arouse in
1475
01:40:44.199 --> 01:40:47.159
the USA and not other countries. After all, the first
1476
01:40:47.199 --> 01:40:51.399
bio hickers were the USA resoldiers. So to unswer the
1477
01:40:51.600 --> 01:40:55.319
original problem, I think there are three key points in
1478
01:40:55.359 --> 01:40:59.920
the fight for better medicine. First, development of regenerative therapy
1479
01:41:00.359 --> 01:41:04.279
and treatments, whose mechanism is the elimination of molecular and
1480
01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:09.079
silver damage that causes generatic diseases and agent pathologies. Second
1481
01:41:09.279 --> 01:41:14.720
is reduction of regulation of emergent therapiest in regenerative medicine.
1482
01:41:14.840 --> 01:41:17.920
The lovering of regulation is very important if you want
1483
01:41:18.039 --> 01:41:22.600
to make the progress the medical progress more quickly. And third,
1484
01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:27.399
last but not least, an education in regenerative medicine so
1485
01:41:27.479 --> 01:41:32.680
that people, including physicians and policymakers know about emerging therapies
1486
01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:36.520
and can help in their implementation and entering the clinics
1487
01:41:36.560 --> 01:41:38.880
at least by fulfilling these key points.
1488
01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:41.119
And for that, I want to.
1489
01:41:40.880 --> 01:41:45.640
Establish a completely free and online by medical engineering and
1490
01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.840
regenerative medicine conference via some platform like Google, Meet or
1491
01:41:50.960 --> 01:41:55.439
Zoom to bring attention to all these problems and invite
1492
01:41:55.560 --> 01:41:59.159
more people from all over the world to solve these problems.
1493
01:41:59.279 --> 01:42:02.720
And I ask everyone who can help in debt to
1494
01:42:02.760 --> 01:42:07.079
help us to make this conference, because almost all conferences
1495
01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:11.319
are offline and paid, and so not everyone have money
1496
01:42:11.359 --> 01:42:14.880
and ability to travel to another part of the world
1497
01:42:15.039 --> 01:42:19.880
and spend a few thousand dollars to participate in conferences,
1498
01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:23.800
and many researchers have no time no money for that
1499
01:42:24.239 --> 01:42:29.079
and their work are not known for many investors unfortunately,
1500
01:42:29.439 --> 01:42:33.680
so it must be fixed. And finally, I want to
1501
01:42:33.720 --> 01:42:39.000
say that if any of American policymakers, government officials, or
1502
01:42:39.039 --> 01:42:41.560
private investors now listen to us.
1503
01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:44.479
I would be glad to help all you.
1504
01:42:44.359 --> 01:42:48.359
As a consultant to make America more healthy and better.
1505
01:42:48.640 --> 01:42:53.600
Thank you, yes, thank you very much, Ariel for that
1506
01:42:53.920 --> 01:42:59.520
very thorough presentation where you covered the various facets of
1507
01:43:00.199 --> 01:43:05.239
the problem we're seeing in terms of regenerative medicine and
1508
01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:08.960
the field of longevity more broadly not making as much
1509
01:43:09.079 --> 01:43:14.359
progress as we would like. And you covered both the
1510
01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:21.920
scientific aspects of this, the lack of investment in or
1511
01:43:21.960 --> 01:43:27.319
appreciation of the damage repair approach, as well as the
1512
01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:33.880
political aspects with grant giving agencies like the National Institutes
1513
01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:39.319
of Health as well as the excessive regulation of new
1514
01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:45.199
medical procedures, devices, drugs, therapies that stand in the way.
1515
01:43:45.640 --> 01:43:50.319
And then, of course there's the broader problem of public
1516
01:43:50.359 --> 01:43:54.880
opinion and how to get the broader society to support
1517
01:43:55.079 --> 01:44:00.239
these endeavors. Because I think politicians respond to public pressure,
1518
01:44:00.720 --> 01:44:05.880
and if there comes about a large public constituency that
1519
01:44:06.039 --> 01:44:12.399
will demand advancements in longevity science and in effective rejuvenation
1520
01:44:12.840 --> 01:44:17.680
treatments using the damage repair approach, then the politicians will
1521
01:44:17.760 --> 01:44:21.520
seek to allocate funding to make that happen. And moreover,
1522
01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:25.560
there will be larger numbers of private investors who will
1523
01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:30.640
also be convinced by the broader messaging to the public
1524
01:44:31.039 --> 01:44:34.359
and will contribute their funds. But I agree that this
1525
01:44:34.439 --> 01:44:38.560
is a difficult period for the longevity field because it
1526
01:44:38.600 --> 01:44:44.000
does seem like many of the best and most promising companies,
1527
01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:47.920
as well as nonprofit organizations. A good example is LEVF,
1528
01:44:48.000 --> 01:44:52.039
the Longevity Escape Velocity Foundation, which Aubrey De Gray now runs,
1529
01:44:52.279 --> 01:44:55.600
need a lot more funding than they are getting. So
1530
01:44:55.720 --> 01:45:00.479
Aubrey de Gray has stated that to conclude the second
1531
01:45:00.560 --> 01:45:04.399
Robust Mouse or juvenation study and collect all the data
1532
01:45:04.880 --> 01:45:08.359
that would be helpful on the combinations of interventions that
1533
01:45:08.399 --> 01:45:11.039
would be tested in that study, which is even going
1534
01:45:11.039 --> 01:45:14.960
to be more ambitious than the recently concluded first Robust
1535
01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:17.960
Mouse rejuvenation study, he is going to need on the
1536
01:45:18.079 --> 01:45:21.520
order of six million dollars. Now, in terms of how
1537
01:45:21.600 --> 01:45:25.159
much scientific funding gets allocated in total, six million dollars
1538
01:45:25.199 --> 01:45:27.840
is not a lot of money, and if enough people
1539
01:45:28.079 --> 01:45:34.720
of means were persuaded to understand and agree with the
1540
01:45:34.800 --> 01:45:38.000
validity of his approach and the promising nature of his approach,
1541
01:45:38.039 --> 01:45:40.239
that money would be forthcoming. But we have a task
1542
01:45:40.279 --> 01:45:41.920
ahead of us, and this is a task of the
1543
01:45:41.960 --> 01:45:47.039
broader community of transhumanists of longevity advocates. This is why
1544
01:45:47.319 --> 01:45:50.479
the US Transhumanist Party exists. This is why we hold
1545
01:45:50.479 --> 01:45:54.920
these virtual Enlightenment salons to bring light to these kinds
1546
01:45:54.920 --> 01:45:58.680
of issues, these kinds of obstacles, and deliberate about how
1547
01:45:58.840 --> 01:46:02.359
they may overcome. So Ariol, thank you very much for
1548
01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:07.039
joining us today. Unfortunately our time has come to an end,
1549
01:46:07.079 --> 01:46:10.760
but this is certainly a discussion that needs to continue
1550
01:46:11.079 --> 01:46:14.960
within our broader community so that we may all live
1551
01:46:15.039 --> 01:46:16.640
long and prosper
1552
01:46:19.439 --> 01:46:20.560
Thank you, good luck,