The Evaluation System That Quietly Destroys Teacher Trust ft. Craig Randall | Transformational Educators Ep. 41

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Hi everyone, Dr.
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Matthew Flippin here.
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Today we're revisiting one of the most important conversations we've had on transformational educators.
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My conversation with Craig Randall, author, speaker, trainer, and creator of Trust-Based Observations.
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Craig challenges a practice most school leaders have inherited without questioning the traditional teacher observation.
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His argument is that when observation becomes a high-stakes rating exercise, teachers stop taking risks.
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What stayed with me from this conversation is that Craig is not asking leaders to lower expectations.
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He is showing us how trust can actually make meaningful improvement possible.
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We also get into the practical side of his model, from focusing on strengths and meeting teachers in their own classrooms to creating this psychological safety people need to experiment, learn, and improve.
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If you observe teachers, coach staff, or lead instructional improvement at any level, this conversation may completely change how you think about feedback.
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Watch, and if this resonates, please like, share, and subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next.
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We'll be back soon with a brand new conversation.
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Thanks for being here.
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When I start rating you, it damages our relationship and you don't trust me anymore.
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And then you play it safe.
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And if you play it safe, you're not trying new things.
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That is Craig Randall, author, speaker, trainer, and creator of trust-based observations.
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He believes one of the biggest problems in education is that the very systems meant to improve teaching can quietly shut down trust, risk taking, and real growth.
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People need to feel safe in order to try something new.
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They need to be supported.
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How does that happen?
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It happens when we build trusty relationships with people.
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By the end of this conversation, you'll learn how school leaders can create the conditions teachers need to improve, reflect, and thrive.
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I'm Dr.
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Matthew Flippin, and this is Transformational Educators.
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Today we are talking about seeing schools clearly and why trust comes before data with Craig Randall.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thanks, man.
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Pat thanks.
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I appreciate being on.
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Yes, absolutely.
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You know, Craig is the creator of trust-based observations and has spent years helping school leaders rethink how observation, feedback, and trust actually drive improvement.
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Now, what stands out about your work, Craig, is really your willingness to challenge long-held assumptions about observation and evaluation, not lowering expectations, but creating conditions where real growth is possible.
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So today we're going to explore how leaders can really diagnose the true reality of a school, why fear distorts data and observations and what it looks like to build trust before trying to fix instruction.
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Right.
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And so again, it's great to have you.
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Thanks for thanks for being with us today.
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No, I appreciate it.
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I'm super excited for a chat today.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Well, you know, I know we we've visited a little bit about how you came about this model of trust-based observation.
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I'd love for you to share with us what you experienced as an educator, and then who spoke into you to help guide this, how this came about, this model that you have found to now be so effective.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I I think, I mean, I was a counselor and a teacher in different jobs along the way.
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And uh at one point I ended up working in an international school, and and the elementary principal said, Craig, I think you'd make a good principal.
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And uh, after some initial reluctance, I thought, oh, maybe so.
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And and I found a program.
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This is all pre-online and and so that was willing to work with me living overseas and taking classes in the summer and uh maybe a little what we'd call asynchronous now.
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And and really, but even then, I just have to say, like with observations, like even when they were done well, I didn't like them because you'd have an observation and and they'd give you your scores or whatever, and they always offered a suggestion or feedback.
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And then if you're lucky, you'd have maybe one more later in the year.
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But then it was completely new and they'd offered feedback, suggested feedback, and it never came up in the second one.
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And it was like they were just so disconnected.
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So, like, well, what's feedback if we're not even gonna talk about what we like where's growth or change or continuing growth?
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And and I remember I would talk to people about it and they'd say, Oh, I know, I know, I know, but what are you gonna do?
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And so, even really starting my program, in some ways, I was I was wondering, why am I even doing this?
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And at that point, I was actually in the middle of two years of not even being observed at all, and which is more common than people might think.
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And, but then in my supervision class, my very first day of class, uh, the man that became my mentor, Warren Aller, he he just said very first day, you have to be in classes every day.
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You need to be spending an hour in classes, you need to be focusing on their strengths, seeing what they're doing well, building from what they're doing well.
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You need to be asking them questions where you're valuing them, not just telling them, but asking them, like, what were you doing to help students learn?
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What, if you had the chance to do it again, what might you do differently?
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And then what we did that like when I speak now, I'll ask people, when you did supervision, did you practice observation?
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And and I've spoken to you know thousands and thousands of people.
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I've had one hand raised up.
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No one ever practices it.
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It's almost like sending you out into teaching without student teaching, not quite the same.
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But we would practice, we would bring 10-minute mini lessons, and one of us would teach, and then one of the other of us would would observe.
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And it was, it was a very basic version of what we do now, but really effective still.
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And so we practiced over and over and over.
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And really that started the whole process.
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And then when I got my first, and uh, I don't know if we want to go into the mentor part now or more into that later, but my um, but my um my first assistant principal job, I told my principal, who I got lucky again, because he'd had a whole career in the US, retired, came out of retirement to do the international school thing.
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And I said, I have got this crazy idea about observations.
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And he said, Okay, let's do it when I told him about it.
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And and then we started doing it, and teachers just loved it right away.
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So for our for our audience, draw the contrast between the two models.
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So the traditional approach, what what's happening and what are the outcomes and or challenges, and then yeah, the trust-based approach.
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In a traditional model, and then there's variants, but there's a lot of similarity.
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Um, and there's two or three predominant models out there, and and state law and almost every state that mandates some version of one of these laws.
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And and really it's it's a three-part process where there's a pre-observation conference where you and I meet.
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And if you're the teacher, you tell me that day, okay, I'd like you to come in this day.
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And on this day, I'm this is gonna be our learning goal, and this is what I'm going to do.
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And so then I have to go write all that up after our meeting.
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And then I go in and I watch you during that whole class period, and you you teach.
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And I write all that down.
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And but if I'm gonna be truthful, when when you know that you're gonna be observed as a teacher and you know you're gonna be rated, and then that factors into my retention or sometimes uh bonuses, you're not seeing their normal teaching.
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You're seeing, and I'm not blaming teachers at all, it's it's human nature.
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I'm seeing teaching on steroids to tick the boxes and impress the boss.
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And and I'll hear regularly what we call the dog and pony show stories, where teachers will say, Every, hey, kids, listen, if you if you behave really well, I'll get you this afterwards.
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Or they'll say, Every time I ask a question, everybody raise your hand.
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Raise your left hand if you know the answer, raise your right hand if you don't know the answer.
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And and I mean, literally, I hear these things.
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And and so it it so then we have a reflective conversation.
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So I've had to write everything out afterwards, and now we have a conversation where basically I give you your scores on all these different areas, which range from maybe 35 or 40 areas up to 75 different areas, which how can you see all that in one class period anyway?
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And then the scores usually some four-point scale that ranges from you're not very good to you're amazing.
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And as a leader, when I have to give someone a score, and it's a score that I know is going to be lower than what they want, because everyone wants at least good, right?
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And then there's all this anxiety behind it.
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And so, and then I have to write all that up.
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So sometimes that can take up to six hours.
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And so what the research says, and there have been two major studies that have come out in the last seven years and now eight years, I guess it's 2018, the calendar year just flipped.
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But um, and the research says it's not improving teaching and learning.
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They both say the same thing: a big Gates Foundation study and a big Hannenberg Institute for Education Reform study.
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And these are major studies.
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But there's also a guy named Matt O'Leary out of the UK, and his research is much more concerning.
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Actually, the Gates Foundation study said the way we're doing observation increases teacher dissatisfaction, which is not what we want.
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But O'Leary's research says what ends up happening is when I start rating you, it it damages our relationship and you don't trust me anymore.
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And then you play it safe.
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And if you play it safe, you're not trying new things.
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And you can't get better if you're not trying new things.
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And but worse than that, the research says that it causes harm, it causes stress, anxiety, trauma.
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And most concerning of all, it says it actually lowers teacher's self-of-self sense of self-efficacy.
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If under Hattie's guidelines on research, collective teacher efficacy is the most powerful influence on learning, and what we're doing lowers self-efficacy.
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I'm not sure how you're ever going to get to where you want.
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Sounds like the traditional model is undermining the goal, right?
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Unintentionally, because obviously it's well-intended, but it's not taking into account um, I think human beings in their hearts, and especially in a profession that's about heart, that's about making a difference.
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Hey, is today's conversation resonating with you?
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You know, the educators we feature on this podcast all have one thing in common.
00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:44.799
They're committed to growth, not just for the students, but for themselves.
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At Graceland University, we've built programs and partnerships that support that kind of growth, servant leadership and school transformation for educators who want to make a lasting difference.
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If you're curious about what that could look like for you, scan the QR code or check out the link in the show notes.
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.519
Let's get back to the conversation.
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We see this in other areas too, where there's a there's a mandate, right, in an effort to check the box.
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We haven't necessarily backed up and looked at, is this the most effective way to check the box?
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And I think that's where I'd love to shift and like, okay, so what's the effective way?
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Uh, Craig, you found in your search as well.
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There was a piece of research in 1984 that looked at teacher evaluation models and it said, can one tool, like your observation template, do two things?
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Can it support growth and evaluate for retention purposes?
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And looking at 32 different school districts, it said, no, we have to separate it, have one tool that does evaluation and one tool that does growth.
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But what have we been doing?
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One tool trying to do two things.
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So what we do is we we understand people and we understand heart and we understand human beings and we understand how do you get the best out of people, and you have to have psychological safety.
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People need to feel safe in order to try something new.
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They need to be supported.
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How does that happen?
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It happens when we build trusting relationships with people.
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Well, that's easy to say, but but how do we build trusting relationships with people?
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And that's really what what do you do and what don't you do to build trusting relationships?
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And so what we do is in one, how does trust build?
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It builds through frequent interactions, not once or twice a year.
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Like I can't talk to you, Matthew, once a year and expect you and I to become good buddies that trust each other.
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We've got to spend time getting to know each other and has to be consistent.
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And so we see you regularly, once every three or four weeks, and there's no, they're not announced, they're unannounced.
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But because we don't grade the pedagogy anymore, and there are ways that we manage that with state laws, just so people out there listening know.
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Um, so because that that rating the pedagogy causes so many problems, but I see you regularly, they're unannounced when they're strengths based.
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And I just want people to hear that again.
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They're strengths based.
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When I stop start focusing, stop focusing on what's wrong, and that's what ends up happening.
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When I grade you, my mindset just becomes deficit and I look at what's wrong with you.
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And it's harder for me to help you grow.
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When I start to look at what's right with you, even if I'm not be the highest level of right, it's so much easier for me to help you grow because I'm looking at you from what you've got, just like we would want a teacher to do with a student, right?
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Of course.
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I'm thinking I'm listening to this thinking, well, wait, we need psychological safety with teachers.
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Aren't we always talking about that with children as well?
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You mean maybe we grow teachers the same way we grow students through relationships?
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Wow.
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It's rocket science.
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What can I tell you?
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Um, so yeah, and so we do these 20-minute unannounced observations.
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So there's no worry by the teachers ahead of time once they really want to even spent one week at your school training.
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The word spreads even before Ree's done that it's a really positive thing.
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So that worry is taken away.
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It's authentic teaching because you don't know when I'm coming.
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So our conversations are genuine.
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There's no fear involved with the teacher because we're not putting that rating score into it.
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And so we start by there's all these little things that we do to build trust.
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And I don't want to go into the whole list today, but like I'll just give you a couple.
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We have the conversation in the teacher's room, not our office.
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And we just say, whether you're seven, 17, or 37, getting called to the principal's office feels like getting called to the principal's office.
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And when you're in your space, you're safer.
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We sit beside you, not across from you, because people feel safer like that.
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But we start by asking questions, like the version of those two questions I mentioned earlier.
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What were you doing to help students learn?
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And you had the chance to do it again.
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What might you do differently?
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And instantly, what am I saying?
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I'm saying you're a professional and I value you and what you have to say.
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That builds trust.
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All these little things build trust.
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And I share all the strengths that you have.
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And each strength I share is a little trust-building action.
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And we ultimately tell the teachers this the goal is for me and everyone else that does observations to build enough trust so that any of us can come into your classroom, observe you, see you trying something new.
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And even though it's not likely, have that thing that you're trying to be a train wreck disaster, but as opposed to a traditional observation where you'd be having all this worry and anxiety about it, that won't exist because you know the first thing I'm gonna do the next day when I come into your classroom is say, Matthew, I love it that you're trying something new.
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That's how we get better.
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It's not always gonna work out the way we want, but that's how we grow.
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And when you've created those conditions, everything changes.
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And that there's more to it, but that's the nutshell of really what I love it.
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So, so at the uh, and thank you, thank you for doing that, for drawing the distinction.
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I mean, I in my mind, I'm thinking through really this anxiety-provoking, uh not helpful leads to lower performance instead of higher.
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And then this other model that is uh actually life-giving in a sense.
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It's it's dignifying, it's respecting the profession, and it's grow and it's growing.
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So, yeah, thank you.
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You know, Matthew, I was just just at a meeting just prior to this, and I was talking to one of the very first schools we trained.
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Oh gosh, four years ago, four and a half years ago, and there were some other people in our community, the school leaders that we were on with those on the meeting too, and she was trying to get them to understand why it's so much better.
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And she said, you see tears of joy in our reflective conversations because teachers aren't used to having their strengths shared with them.
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I mean, we shouldn't see it's great that that's happening, but it's also an indictment in the other systems when because I'm saying something nice about you, you're crying joy because it's you don't really hear that.
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I mean, there's something wrong when that's happening.
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Absolutely.
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So let's talk about a specific example where you've gone to a school and and what was going, what was the leader looking to improve?
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What the what any metrics were that you had that you know about the school before you coached them and then what it looked like afterwards.
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I love to unpack a specific.
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I mean, look, if we're being honest, people that are reaching out are people that the heart-centered relationship piece, the the psychological safety piece resonates.
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So I'm at least with the lead leader, I'm not really having to do any convincing because that's why they've reached out.
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But we had a school in outside of Bakersfield, California, and it was uh uh a small secondary school district and economically depressed oil community, and um really loving people and students and and uh when I was there though, it was really, really traditional teaching.
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It was everybody was in rows, and and it was really like when I went to school, or perhaps when you went to school, where there's a a lot of lecture and and and then and then that was it.
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And so that's what we that's what happened when I first got there.
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And but even then you still see strength, you still see relationships, you s even if I'm not saying teaching that I would say is ideal teaching, and look, some people can pull that off and it and it it it it can be fine, but that's what it was when we got there, and trust takes time, right?
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It doesn't happen overnight.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:36.880
About nine months later, um the superintendent messaged me and and he just said, or maybe we talked, I can't remember, messaged me, then we talked, and and he just said, Craig, it's really amazing.
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:42.319
The the union and all the teachers, they came to us and they said, we really need to improve our teaching.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:49.680
The union and the teachers came to the superintendent and principals and said, We need to change our teaching.
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.920
I'm repeating that for a reason.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:19:07.200
And what really ended up happening is over the time of going over that for nine months and seeing our form and the good practices, and we always tell the teachers something not being filled in is not a negative, it just means we didn't see it.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:17.119
But they saw on their own areas where they could grow and enough safety developed where they actually approached them saying, We want to get better.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:23.279
And so they worked on pedagogical stuff and on their own and and through some of the things that we do to work with them.
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:32.720
But they also we we have like what we call part two training where we really build into the piece where we start to offer suggestions, and there's a very specific way that you do that to build trust too.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:42.319
You don't tell, you ask permission and you work with them just like you would want a teacher to work with students, not just say, hey, get better at this, which is truth be told, kind of the way we tend to do it.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:55.599
And so we came back and did that, and then this school, uh, after having been fully implemented and everything, they ended up raising the percentage California standardized tests.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:08.400
The percentage of kids uh that reached proficient year over year rose seven and a quarter percent in math and twelve and three quarter percent in EAL.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.680
So, I mean, that's that's that's traumatic.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:13.839
I mean, people celebrate one and two point gains.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.440
Yeah, that's outstanding.
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:24.079
And you and I go, I know there's not a state measure on uh culture, campus culture, although I think that would be a better predictor of uh a performance.
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:29.440
I agree, but uh, but the reports back uh from the superintendent obviously were positive.
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:41.839
The I the idea that the union and the teachers would say we need to improve uh and feel confident enough saying that out loud and that it would be heard and well received.
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.079
I mean, I don't know if I've heard a story.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.839
I know it's pretty it's pretty crazy.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.480
I you know, I will I can I tell you a quick little culture story?
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.519
Sure, please.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:57.519
So we we train schools all over the world, international schools and and schools in in the UK and and and in the US and and wherever.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:03.200
And and so I was leaving, uh, and so before we come, people always say, well, what should we tell the teachers?
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:09.359
And we say, just we give them a little email template and say, you know, make it your own, but just tell them we're doing trust-based observations.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:13.519
Usually the word trust just does enough that that that gets people okay.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.079
And we just say, we know you're gonna love it.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:22.000
But for those of you that get observed that week while we're learning, it's it's not gonna be fun to have a group of people coming with a laptop.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.279
But as soon as you have the reflective conversation, we know you're gonna feel better.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.720
And we always do it the same day when you do the training, there's no delay.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:36.960
And so I'm leaving an international school in Cambodia, in Phnom Penh, the capital city, and it's a large K-12 international school.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:47.359
And as the superintendent and I are walking out, on the way out, we hear we run into three different teachers at three different times, and all three of them said almost the same thing.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:57.920
And they all had the same wistful tone in their voice, and they all said something along the lines of, Oh, I thought you were gonna observe me.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.480
So, like Think about that.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.640
Teachers saying I missed out.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.000
Like, no fair.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.240
I didn't get my turn being observed.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.400
Like that, like what?
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.279
What?
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.359
And so, how did it happen?
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.640
It happened really because teachers are gossips.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:20.079
And so, as soon as the first teachers finish, everybody goes up to them and says, What was it like?
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:21.039
What was it like?
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.400
And they start hearing about wow, they wanted to know what I thought.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.039
They told me all these things I was really great at.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:31.200
And so by Friday, people want to be observed.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.119
That is transforming your school into a culture of trust in one week.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.920
Interesting.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:40.079
I was thinking about what's your what's your preferred term instead of observation?
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:47.519
I know you say trust-based, but observation itself to me is not even the right word for what these should be.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:23:21.730
I d no, I know.
00:23:21.730 --> 00:23:22.849
And I've thought about that.
00:23:22.849 --> 00:23:26.049
I don't like the word evaluation because we're not evaluating.
00:23:26.049 --> 00:23:27.250
And you still have to evaluate.
00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:33.490
And we evaluate things though that like professionalism and your mindset towards growth and hate it along with others and all that kind of stuff.
00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:34.930
These are really coaching.
00:23:34.930 --> 00:23:36.369
It's really coaching sessions.
00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:36.849
It is.
00:23:36.849 --> 00:23:46.930
And we're actually, I mean, there's a four-book mission like that I'm on, is first is writing a second edition, but one of the other ones is trust-based coaching.
00:23:46.930 --> 00:23:53.569
And one of the other ones is also trust-based observations for leaders to support other leaders, because there's nothing that shows us how to do that.
00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:55.410
The other is just trust-based leadership.
00:23:55.410 --> 00:24:04.369
So, you know, it's funny because the word that I have a bigger problem with, and it's not the word itself, it's just what the connotations are, is the word feedback.
00:24:04.369 --> 00:24:07.970
Because I think feedback always implies negativity.
00:24:07.970 --> 00:24:14.849
And I don't have an answer to the to the substitute word, but but uh other than we call them reflective conversations.
00:24:14.849 --> 00:24:17.889
And I think even that says something and not as negative.
00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:18.289
Yeah.
00:24:18.289 --> 00:24:19.170
No, that's great.
00:24:19.170 --> 00:24:19.809
That's great.
00:24:19.809 --> 00:24:30.690
Well, and just to just to contrast, because I think about, you know, a lot of who we're um serving, you know, Craig, are leaders that desire to be transformational, right?
00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:41.970
They're going into a new campus that has some faces some real challenges, and they're trying to quickly transform that that starts with a trust-based culture.
00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:58.049
So I think about like the contrast of if I if I if I'm trying to do that work and I do a traditional uh observation model, I'm somewhat shooting myself in the foot on this journey of building trust and and feedback.
00:24:58.049 --> 00:25:13.329
But if I use a trust-based coaching model of um uh teacher growth, now I'm actually accelerating because I'm I'm building relationships while I'm seeing instructional improvement uh at the same time.
00:25:13.730 --> 00:25:33.889
When I'm a leader and I'm really well intentioned to positive, and I even though I have the traditional way of doing it and I want to say all the positive things about a teacher, what we really end up finding is the teacher's not listening to the positive things you're saying because their mind is always thinking about what's my score going to be.
00:25:33.889 --> 00:25:42.690
So that that's so in their head, because that's ingrained to be in our head, that it all the good, all of our best intentions get lost.
00:25:42.690 --> 00:25:47.889
And it's not their fault, it's just what happens with a system that has scores built into their pedagogy.
00:25:48.289 --> 00:25:48.930
Totally true.
00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:50.289
I can I can see that.
00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:59.569
I can think of relationships I have where you can give them uh 10 compliments and one uh growth area and they all think about the one, the one negative.
00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:00.210
All right.
00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:05.170
The cookie sandwich technique or two stars on a wish or noticings and wonderings.
00:26:05.170 --> 00:26:10.049
Adam Grant uh put out uh an article a year or so ago on that.
00:26:10.049 --> 00:26:11.569
And he said those don't work.
00:26:11.569 --> 00:26:20.690
And he said the reason they don't work is because people are smart and they know the reason you're saying the positive things is to get to the point of what they really want is what I want to fix.
00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:33.009
And like the with trust-based observations, we don't offer suggestions for, I mean, exceptions for brand new teachers, of course, but we don't offer suggestions the first three visits because we haven't built up enough trust yet.
00:26:33.009 --> 00:26:39.250
And so, but once you hit that magic third or fourth mark, then that trust is there and then they're open to it.
00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:47.730
So then when you do have a suggestion, which you don't have to have every time anyway, it it and because it's supported, it lands more, it really does lead to growth.
00:26:47.889 --> 00:26:48.129
Absolutely.
00:26:48.129 --> 00:26:51.649
We got to have relational capacity, but we would say it or trust, right?
00:26:51.649 --> 00:26:59.889
We got to have enough, enough trust, psychological safety, where uh and even then the way I'm presenting it should be through questions, is what I'm hearing you say.
00:26:59.889 --> 00:27:00.529
Uh yeah.
00:27:00.849 --> 00:27:12.609
Even yeah, we ask questions at first, but even like, look, I might say which one which one of the areas of pedagogy would help this teacher most, but even then I'm going to ask permission to offer a suggestion.
00:27:12.609 --> 00:27:18.049
Hey, Matthew, I have a suggestion on working memory and cognitive load, especially reflection processing activities.
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:19.490
Would you like to hear?
00:27:19.490 --> 00:27:25.490
And people always say yes, but if I say, Matthew, I'd like you to work on that, we get a little bit defensive.
00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:31.649
And so just changing our semantics, then it's more than that, because then how do we work and walk you through that whips or walking with it?
00:27:31.649 --> 00:27:32.930
It's permission based.
00:27:33.009 --> 00:27:33.649
Yeah.
00:27:33.649 --> 00:27:35.490
Yeah, and makes a big difference.
00:27:35.490 --> 00:27:36.450
Yeah, of course.
00:27:36.450 --> 00:27:36.930
Of course.
00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:50.450
I also think how powerful this is from a modeling standpoint because you're modeling what you also would want those teachers to turn around and use the same approach in a way with the children that are in their in their classrooms.
00:27:50.609 --> 00:28:00.129
And maybe even even more impactful than the modeling is the hypocrisy of the anti-modeling that we're doing before when we're using a traditional system, not intentionally, but just the effect of it.
00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:00.369
Yeah.
00:28:00.369 --> 00:28:01.490
That is so true.
00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:10.129
Well, is there I know along this journey we were talking about uh just a person that's in this journey for you that's really impacted you?
00:28:10.129 --> 00:28:14.690
I just um and I think you mentioned your mentor briefly earlier.
00:28:14.690 --> 00:28:15.170
Yeah.
00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:18.930
What yeah was it what was the impact he's had just on your life?
00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:21.970
Because I don't think you've just adapted this to education.
00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:27.009
I think you've probably implemented this across all your relationships.
00:28:27.250 --> 00:28:30.529
I just remember that first day in the class when he was saying those things.
00:28:30.529 --> 00:28:33.649
It was it was all my frustrations went away.
00:28:33.649 --> 00:28:40.289
It was that it was a combination of the the hallelujah music and and the light bulb, like both going on in my head.
00:28:40.289 --> 00:28:44.129
And I always tell people that, and I think they think I'm crazy, but it it really was.
00:28:44.129 --> 00:28:49.410
And then just because we practiced, like it became like we were modeling, right?
00:28:49.410 --> 00:29:05.490
So I had a mentor that was showing us every day, and he taught classes too, and we would, you know, have reflective conversations with him, and we would stay in periodic touch when I was international school teaching, but really since then, and since we started working on the book, we've just become closer and closer and closer.
00:29:05.490 --> 00:29:07.329
And and he's quite ill now.
00:29:07.329 --> 00:29:20.690
And and but I I mean I go up and see him all the time, and and and I tell him every single time, but and he's so modest, and I just say, look, none of this would happen, none of this would exist without you.
00:29:20.690 --> 00:29:22.049
And he tries to downplay it.
00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:25.649
I'm like, no, this would not be in existence without you.
00:29:25.649 --> 00:29:28.930
But I also know, and it does it, I'll tell you, this brings me gratitude.
00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:52.930
I know there's pride that he has good pride, not bad pride, and I and knowing that he has a legacy, and that what this incredibly caring, caring human being taught me has now expanded into this, into this model, and and and it's affecting lives and thousands of kids and teachers and and leaders all over the world.
00:29:52.930 --> 00:29:56.609
And so it's I I feel I mean, he's like a second dad to me.
00:29:56.690 --> 00:29:58.769
And and so yeah, I feel really blessed.
00:29:58.769 --> 00:30:02.690
Yeah, and I really hear that gratitude there and and your love, love for him.
00:30:02.690 --> 00:30:10.289
And and uh yeah, you know, when someone invests in us and shares something uh with us that is so meaningful.
00:30:10.289 --> 00:30:12.849
Obviously, this is his heart language, yeah.
00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:16.210
And uh and so that you've taken it and expanded.
00:30:16.210 --> 00:30:20.930
What a what a beautiful way to honor um you know what he invested in you.
00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:24.769
So um, yeah, we really appreciate you sharing that with us, with us, Craig.
00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:29.410
Well, where can our listeners learn more about your work and connect with you?
00:30:29.649 --> 00:30:29.970
Yeah.
00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:34.930
Um, so my website is trustbased, t-r-us-t-b-as-ed.com.
00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:36.529
And so you can get me on there.
00:30:36.529 --> 00:30:45.250
Um, we have a weekly newsletter, and so once you reach out to me through like looking at our form, which you can get at the website or get it or or contact Craig or whatever.
00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:46.690
And so you can contact me there.
00:30:46.690 --> 00:30:49.410
My emails Craig at trustbase.com.
00:30:49.410 --> 00:30:53.490
Um, LinkedIn, my handles uh at trustbase craig.
00:30:53.490 --> 00:30:55.329
So those are any one of those ways works.
00:30:55.329 --> 00:30:56.129
Fantastic.
00:30:56.289 --> 00:31:03.730
And of course, you've got a book out as well, and I know you're doing a revision, so I would definitely encourage our listeners to pick that up as a starting point.
00:31:03.730 --> 00:31:04.849
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:31:04.849 --> 00:31:07.569
You know, so many things that stood out today, uh, Craig.
00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:14.210
And as I've learned more about your work and the model, it so resonates with what we believe transformational educators uh really do.
00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:35.170
So I just, you know, I I think about, you know, when we're trying to like interpret data um observations, but yet we're our way of gathering that is harmful to the process, then uh, you know, again, we're not we're not helping advance the the cause that we're really after, which is to see all people in our system, you know, do do well.
00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:41.809
So, you know, I really appreciate you just shedding more light on that for me and you know, and for our for our listeners.
00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:43.889
Um, it's great to be with you.
00:31:43.889 --> 00:31:45.649
Um, well, I'll close out.
00:31:45.649 --> 00:31:53.410
So if today's episode is valuable, please share it with a colleague and uh and please contact uh Craig to learn more about his work.
00:31:53.410 --> 00:31:58.129
If you haven't already, follow Transformational Educators so you never miss an episode.
00:31:58.129 --> 00:32:06.529
And until next time, keep leading with purpose and transforming play uh schools into places where everyone thrives.
00:32:06.529 --> 00:32:08.289
Thanks for being with us.
00:32:08.289 --> 00:32:15.490
If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend.
00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:19.009
It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference.
00:32:19.009 --> 00:32:24.769
For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit graceland.edu.
00:32:24.769 --> 00:32:28.369
Until next time, keep leading with courage and care.
00:32:28.369 --> 00:32:34.129
If you want to keep learning about transformational strategies in education, click the next video.