Joseph Gray | Mountain Running's Greatest of all Time

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What's up, guys?
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
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I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we're bringing you guys something special, something I've been promising for a really long time 2016 and 2019 World Mountain Running Champion.
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23-time US National Champion, eight-time winner of the Mount Washington Road Race, five-time winner of the Pikes Peak Ascent.
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This man needs no introduction.
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The greatest of all time.
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None other than Mr Joseph Gray was kind enough.
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It was an honor and a privilege to be able to sit down and talk with him and have him on the Steep Stuff podcast.
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I hope you guys really enjoy this one.
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It was so special, it really meant a lot to me and I know Joe had a good time as well.
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It was good getting to shoot the shit and just spend a couple hours with him in the pod studio.
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So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
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None other than Joseph Gray.
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Hey guys, this special presentation of the Steep Stuff podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction.
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So, before the holidays, hop on over to ultimate directioncom and fill up your cart for the trail runner in your family.
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It's time.
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Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
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We are live Joseph Gray.
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Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, my friend.
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Hey, thank you for having me.
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Man, I'm honored to be here.
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Oh, dude, it is an honor and a privilege of mine when I first came up with the idea to do this pod I don't know, people don't know this but you were originally the first person that I reached out to and was like oh, we got to do this and I'm happy we didn't do it right away, just because I had no skills at this.
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I didn't know what I was doing.
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So for someone like you, uh, it means a lot to me to uh, you know, know what I'm doing now or have an idea of it, so we could do this the right way when we finally have you on.
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Definitely.
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Hey and you know you deserve some roses, man.
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You've grown the platform.
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I've seen you at a number of places very quickly.
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You know you were on the pod.
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You created a pod for a couple of races I've done, and so you know.
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Congratulations, man.
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Oh, thanks.
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You've grown it pretty quick, so that's awesome, Appreciate that man.
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Yeah, like I said, honor and privilege.
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This is like I don't know if there was an A race.
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This is the A race.
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I appreciate that man.
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I appreciate it.
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Dude, how's your day going?
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What's going on these days?
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What's new?
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Well, today, you know, kids are finally back in school, so no more snow days, at least for a little while.
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It looks pretty warm, at least we're going to get some melt here.
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But yeah, man, just being a dad dialing in on training now getting ready for some cross country, and yeah, man, excited for the next year and got a couple of projects in the works right now and trying to figure out you know this is kind of a stressful period of time too.
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I think there are a lot of professional athletes You're trying to do contract renegotiations and figure out the direction of your career, where you're going, who you're going to be with, and so, um, you know, all that fun stuff is going down as well.
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Oh you're, you're in that process right now for uh, for some yeah, for some sponsors and obviously I've signed continued with some other brands.
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But yeah, Um, yeah, just trying to figure out some of that as well.
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Very nice, man.
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Yeah, it's crazy.
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It's a crazy time of year.
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I, I, I mean I could be more transparent about this.
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Like I have, I'm on a one-year deal with Sportiva and a one-year deal with UD, so it's, it's every year, it's.
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Let's figure this out again.
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So, yeah, it'd be a we'll see what happens.
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But no, I, I, I feel your pain there, dude.
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Yeah, it can be a hassle.
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Yeah, so you've been really busy lately with the cross-country stuff, man.
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I like how you pivoted from your I guess you could say the mountain racing season to cross-country.
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I saw you post something the other day.
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Yeah, yeah, are you doing like a series of these races or what are you doing with that?
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I mean, you know the US.
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We don't per se have a lot of professional level cross country races outside of just championships.
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So that's pretty much.
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All I have access to is that I was a championship, it was the national uh masters 5k and then the next is a 10 K club.
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Yeah.
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And then the next is a USA uh championship, or, uh, just the USATF uh cross country championship.
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So just just getting ready for those championships, that's about it.
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And then yeah it was.
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It was just a quick pivot, I didn't know if I wanted to do it.
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I, you know not to get like sentimental, but you know I lost a really good friend, kind of heading into pikes, in that.
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You know, mentally I was kind of exhausted and took a nice little break after that and started my season with the Team USA event in Italy and just kind of slowly getting back into it, I felt like I just needed some time away just to be quiet and just be with my family, and I appreciate that.
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For a little while and, um, you know, and cross country is always kind of like I would say it's probably my favorite.
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Uh, and you know, getting back into that and starting to prepare for that again has been, um, really motivating and um, I don't know man, it's kind of gave me a new energy.
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Yeah so yeah, it was cool.
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Nice, are you starting to put the plans together for 2025?
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racing like yeah, I am, I am, uh, you know.
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As you know, there's some races haven't announced yeah, yeah uh, dates and and even we don't know which races are going to be in which series quite yet and in full um, so I'm still waiting on some of that yeah but I mean, I know there's some definitely definite events that I'll be at yeah, I, I was interested with um and you could.
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You don't have to answer this.
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I was just kind of curious Um, cause now that we've got broken arrow will be the vertical race, which I know you traditionally from the vertical, like you usually.
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What was it A loon last year and stuff like that, and then, but it's also going to be soon a P, is it the classic red?
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Soon to P yeah, soon to be classic.
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Yeah, which, what do you?
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What do you?
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Uh, what are you thinking?
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man, man, that's, that's a tough one, I know because, oh, man, you know, mount washington is a race I like to do.
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Um, I need to see what the dates are going to be, you know, to know exactly, but I would love to to get to both of those you know qualifiers, just because I think we could have a good team.
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It could be a good year for us to potentially medal, um, and I would love to be a part of that, especially as a masters now.
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So, yeah, um, but definitely, uh, you know, I would love to do that broken arrow one.
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I think that's um, they announced the date on that one.
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Yeah, it's like june 18th, 19th or something like that.
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It might be somewhere in that range I thought it was later no, I think it's later.
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I hope you're wrong.
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I could be wrong something like that.
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Right, I know I have to go out there.
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I think we're going to be doing something with the podcast and I will probably raise something, but I just yeah, I think that'll be the.
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I mean because the broken arrow vertical has been traditionally last year was deep man.
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I was really impressed that, like Patrick and Phil Amon showed up, wamsley went, which I wasn't expecting that, and then, just like a whole slew, christian Allen.
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Yep, so it would be.
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Patrick was there.
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I forgot about that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Patrick.
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He'll be back there again, I'm sure.
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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, especially so it's like man it's gonna be extra motivation you don't want to lose to somebody outside of your country.
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That's right at your own nationals, uh.
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So yeah, that'll be tough yeah, now for sure we'll talk about, talk about patrick fullmont later, because I think it's interesting.
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Uh, like the a basin race and stuff like that.
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There's always fun stuff to banter about, yeah um well, dude.
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So one of the things I mean I feel like you don't need an introduction because everybody knows who joseph gray is, but for those maybe new or those that might not know a lot about the sport, maybe just give like a just a little synopsis on like your background a little bit, and I really want to know, like how you got into trail and stuff like that um, yeah, just background, um, or I guess, like accomplishment wise, just I've been on, you know, a number of uh team, usa teams representing the country and then, um, I've won 20 something.
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Well, I had 23, so it was for nationals.
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So crazy and you know that's what I'm all about.
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I love competing at the highest level.
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I love competing across a multitude of genres, you know, whether it be cross country, road, ultra sky, whatever, I just love to compete and test myself against others and also, you know, challenge myself.
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I think I'm my biggest doubter.
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So you know, I like to kind of prove myself wrong here and there, look at the man in the mirror and prove him wrong.
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But yeah, that's one of the things I'm about kind of my past.
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But in terms of getting into trail running, I always bring up Simon Gutierrez.
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He was kind of the first person to kind of even introduce the idea of mountain running to me and he talked me into coming.
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You know, I was in Oklahoma finishing up track season and he was like you should try this race.
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And you know, and he introduced me to the sport, I came there and got humbled and but I really loved the experience and just fell in love with it right away.
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And you know, I moved back to Washington after I graduated and, you know, had a little bit more access to like trail type stuff not mountain per se and use what I had.
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And I came back that next year or the next year and I made my first world team and I was just kind of hooked from there.
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You know that first experience when you're representing your country is like crazy and you know you're overseas.
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You see all these names in the sport, big names that you know have been there for many years before you.
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And yeah, man, it was.
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It was kind of eyeopener and very motivating to be around all that Surreal.
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I bet you know like Jonathan Wyatt and dudes like that.
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Yeah, that was the you know.
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Jonathan was the man when I came into the sport for a number of years and even when I yeah, he won the year of my first world team.
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He won in great fashion.
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I mean, he was getting older at this point and he was the man.
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So just being there on the starting line with him and then having some time to be able to travel to some races with him and just kind of talk to him, that's so crazy.
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I was just talking to him.
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I told him, man, I really appreciated that how he could have just been like man, yo, stop asking me questions, get out of my face.
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You know he could have really went a different way if he wanted to.
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Um, you know, got this young kid talking to him about the sport and he's trying to be focused on what he's doing, you know, and he's there with his wife and stuff and uh, you know we were in Norway a couple of times and you know he gave me a lot of tips, things you know just little things that he said to me that were very natural for him, and just seeing his, his way of thinking, his, his thought process about the sport and how he carried himself, it went a long way, because it's stuff that I still brings through my head today, some of the things he told me.
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So it's yeah, man, those early years were very motivating, but a huge blessing to, you're in the right place at the right time.
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You meet some amazing people.
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Yeah, you know this.
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Uh, you never know.
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That's never promised, so it was pretty cool that's amazing, dude was did you was marco, was it um d gaspari as well?
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Like was he in that?
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Uh, like mix back at the time, because I know he was maybe a little bit older uh, yeah, marco was around.
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Um, uh, when did marco come in?
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He's a little bit younger than jonathan, but not by much actually.
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He's maybe like two or three years younger than jono somewhere in there yeah, that's interesting.
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I always thought I was older.
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That's yeah, so it's.
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It's just interesting.
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You hear all these people that are legends in the sport you know, so I'm gonna start off with the first serious, serious question, Cause I, I, I, I throw this around a lot.
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Um, it's been voted unanimously.
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You are without a doubt one are, without a doubt, one of, if not the greatest, the goat.
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How does that feel to you?
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Um, I mean to hear it.
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You know, obviously I think anybody you know is a huge.
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It's a blessing to to be in a sport long enough to accomplish enough for someone, to even even a random person, to think that you were.
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That you know yeah some kid who doesn't even the sport.
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If he came up to you and said it it's still.
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It's a huge accomplishment, so cool, but it's very it's a it makes you feel good, like you've done something.
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You know what I mean and I don't take it for granted when people say that.
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You know, I hold myself to a standard and I think about that the fact that there are people who think you're the best.
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There are people who are motivated, inspired by you, so you can't just crap the bed or, you know, not be serious about training or be consistent or, um, not take a race serious, because there are literally people out there who think you're the best and they're aspiring to that.
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And so, yeah, I think it's motivating.
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It's just interesting because, like people listening to this podcast, it's really.
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It's inspiring and interesting to me because at all things I do in life, like you want to be great.
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Right, most people, very few people, will achieve like that status where someone will say like, oh no, like that person was the greatest to ever do this or you know, and it's just, I don't know, it's such rare air to me and you don't meet too many people that like have achieved.
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You know, like you're, I don't know you can have the Lord, the LeBron slash, kobe slash, you know Jordan debate or the Babe Ruth of baseball, but like for our, our niche sport of mountain running, if you will, like that's I don't know.
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To me that's incredible and it's.
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Is that something you like?
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Did it ever cross your mind?
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Like at one point in time?
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You're like, okay, I'm starting to think about legacy and I want to be the greatest at this.
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Or are you just more of one of those people that think about, okay, I'm just going to grind from race to race to race and just kind of stack that on?
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Like, how does that?
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How do you think about?
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that I think they're one in the same.
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Both of those things right Like to be considered great in a sport.
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You probably had that mentality and you would probably have to have that for your entire career, because you have to stack accolades Like you can't just be someone who's getting you know, who's never really close to winning any major races, to ever get that kind of a thought.
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So it takes time, right.
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And then I think you start thinking about legacy after you've done it so much and people start noticing who you are and what you've done and they you get recognized.
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There are certain awards that you get recognized for, hall of fames, things like this and you start thinking, okay, you know, that is legacy, it's something I'm, maybe I'm chasing legacy now, like which is tied into a race right, like winning races is legacy.
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Technically it's history, and so they're kind of one in the same.
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Yeah, and it's just interesting now to see them start to stack on like Mount Washington and Pikes.
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You know I mean like congratulations on, obviously.
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You know I mean like congratulations on obviously.
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You know it was your eighth win at mount washington, yes, and then fifth at pikes, like you're.
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That's mount rushmore for both historical races.
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It's so wild yeah, man so I got a question for you.
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When it comes to like sub ultra versus ultra, like, you're one of those people to me that, like I mean not just because I know you and I'm a giant fan of you and a friend of yours, but like I, I personally feel like you should be one of those people that have over a million followers on Instagram, whereas, like, there's certain Europeans that have, like, this crazy clout in the sport, and the only thing I can think of is that on the American side, we don't value sub ultra like we probably should.
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We tend to value ultra a little bit more.
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Why do you think that is?
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um, to be honest, there's more marketing time wise in an ultra, right like, our races are really fast, they're really elite, and when you look at short races, it's really, uh, a small percentage of people who have the mentality to win and the ability.
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In ultra, things can go wrong, right Like I can go beat somebody by 10 minutes in a mountain race.
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You know, just a sub ultra mountain race.
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I could be an hour ahead of them in a hundred miler, yeah, and I start throwing up.
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You know, just because of the sheer time sugar being, almost, things can, just things outside of talent and ability can go wrong.
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And so it opens a door to a wider array of.
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Throughout my career, I've been able to win a lot of big races over time.
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It doesn't open the door for other people to get in and win races because my talent is allowing me, or my abilities are allowing me, to win all these races that maybe, if those were ultras, I would do half of those and there'd be 10 other people who won those other races that I didn't do.
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So, you know, I think it's more accessible, I think it's has a easier approach to performance, right Like?
00:18:31.269 --> 00:18:33.361
I don't think the stress level is the same.
00:18:33.361 --> 00:18:36.366
You don't have as much time like in a sub ultra races.
00:18:36.366 --> 00:18:38.772
You don't have time to mess up a lot.
00:18:38.772 --> 00:18:42.289
You know you look at Loon.
00:18:42.289 --> 00:18:43.615
Last year it was the uphill championship.
00:18:43.635 --> 00:18:44.398
You know you look at Loon last year.
00:18:44.398 --> 00:18:46.862
Yeah, it was the uphill championship.
00:18:46.862 --> 00:18:48.383
I felt like I ran a fairly good race.
00:18:48.383 --> 00:18:49.222
I didn't feel good.
00:18:49.222 --> 00:18:53.945
It came down to the last 400 meters before I took the lead to win the race.
00:18:53.945 --> 00:19:03.113
A lot of things didn't go well and it was like if that was an ultra I wouldn't have to worry, you know, for there'd be a lot of time where I didn't have to worry.
00:19:03.153 --> 00:19:04.574
But it's a high stress event.
00:19:04.574 --> 00:19:08.276
A lot of people don't like high stress, really hard output.
00:19:08.276 --> 00:19:09.797
You're running hard.
00:19:09.797 --> 00:19:15.361
You know I've done some alters.
00:19:15.361 --> 00:19:17.143
They get hard near the end, especially if you don't feel properly.
00:19:17.143 --> 00:19:18.484
But if you feel properly they're not that as hard.
00:19:18.484 --> 00:19:22.891
Like in terms of like pushing yourself to being pain.
00:19:22.891 --> 00:19:24.814
You know like it's more of an aerobic pain.
00:19:24.814 --> 00:19:31.750
But you know, when I've done like some cross races and stuff, it's like shoot, we got a 4k to go.
00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:35.568
I feel like my legs are about to fall off.
00:19:35.568 --> 00:19:37.996
We're running hard and I'm buried.
00:19:37.996 --> 00:19:39.579
There's a billion people around me.
00:19:39.579 --> 00:19:40.142
You know what I mean.
00:19:40.142 --> 00:19:45.093
It's like it's a very different type of racing and if I wasn't a professional athlete, I get it.
00:19:45.093 --> 00:19:46.465
I probably wouldn't dig that either.
00:19:46.465 --> 00:19:48.748
I'm out here just to have fun and a little adventure.
00:19:48.748 --> 00:19:53.056
Do a long race where I'm just out having fun, you know, like just Bollygagging.
00:19:53.076 --> 00:19:53.818
I'm not competing.
00:19:53.818 --> 00:19:54.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:54.300 --> 00:20:02.489
So it's very stressful, like I get it, but I think also in the US right mountain running was very young.
00:20:02.489 --> 00:20:23.409
It was in its infancy, and in Europe it had been around for a while, around the time when it was going to kind of get starting to get popular, ultras also started to get popular, and so you know, in Europe the sub-ultra stuff was already really popular and really well-respected, and so you know two different worlds.
00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:24.392
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:20:24.392 --> 00:20:25.804
And the other thing too, though, is like blew.
00:20:25.804 --> 00:20:27.107
My mind is yeah.
00:20:27.188 --> 00:20:34.122
I know like Western States hard rock that whole thing, like there's there's history there, but like Pikes is what?
00:20:34.122 --> 00:20:43.910
Is it like the third or fourth, maybe the fifth somewhere, like that oldest marathon in the country and it's like started in the thirties and then like got bigger, like there was like a one-off race in the thirties.
00:20:43.910 --> 00:20:46.493
But what I'm trying to say is like there's a lot of history.
00:20:46.493 --> 00:20:49.967
Even Mount Washington, there's history there, you know, in a lot of these races.
00:20:49.967 --> 00:20:50.749
So I don't know.
00:20:50.749 --> 00:21:09.445
I hope that one of the things, as the sport continues to grow, both trail, ultra mountain, is that the sub ultra component will just, you know, kind of kind of get bigger and from an accessibility standpoint too, is like a lot of these races are at ski resorts and things like that, so they can have more people, it's not as much wait lists and things like that.
00:21:09.445 --> 00:21:11.492
So hopefully we can track more.
00:21:12.095 --> 00:21:24.666
The thing is it's, it's almost like it's like track and field, right, um and and in today's world, like a lot of the top marathoners are more known than some of the top track athletes, and it's it's not as an accessible sport.
00:21:24.666 --> 00:21:29.953
It's a very hard sport, high octane, not everyone can go out and do that type of stuff.
00:21:30.315 --> 00:21:42.642
and sub ultra is kind of in that same world, right, it's not as accessible to everybody yeah it's very difficult to be good at those types of events whereas, like, you can definitely work on your aerobic capacity and be good at an ultra.
00:21:42.642 --> 00:21:49.435
But that anaerobic slash, aerobic side is very difficult, over over, trained fast, is very difficult to achieve.
00:21:49.435 --> 00:21:52.603
Um, and I was going somewhere with this um.
00:21:52.603 --> 00:22:02.470
You know one of the biggest things I was going to say I think sub ultra, like people think it's not big, but it actually really is if you think about it right.
00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:08.204
It's not big in terms of marketing and media, and I could go on a whole long tangent on that.
00:22:08.384 --> 00:22:08.905
I want to hear it.
00:22:09.006 --> 00:22:10.968
I think a lot of it has to do with.
00:22:10.968 --> 00:22:15.252
I mean, make a long story short.
00:22:15.252 --> 00:22:16.273
I think it's racism.
00:22:16.273 --> 00:22:18.576
Right, who is starting to dominate sub-ultra?
00:22:18.576 --> 00:22:22.086
It's black athletes.
00:22:22.086 --> 00:22:23.529
Europeans have dominated for years.
00:22:23.529 --> 00:22:29.800
It was big right in Europe.
00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:30.723
Europe, africans, myself, we start dominating it.
00:22:30.723 --> 00:22:33.109
You don't see the media as, as a you know, paying as much attention to it as much.
00:22:33.109 --> 00:22:34.804
Yeah, they're focusing on alters.
00:22:34.804 --> 00:22:35.287
Now why?
00:22:35.287 --> 00:22:37.498
Because there's no africans and black athletes really doing it.
00:22:37.498 --> 00:22:45.366
Because a lot of the top ones besides say myself, I'm not going to do it for other reasons but say some of these african athletes, there's no incentive to do it.
00:22:45.788 --> 00:22:46.528
There's no money in it.
00:22:46.528 --> 00:22:48.113
What am I going to go win a belt buckle?
00:22:48.113 --> 00:22:49.826
What I'm going to do with a belt buckle?
00:22:49.826 --> 00:22:51.473
I got a family to feed at home.
00:22:51.473 --> 00:22:51.915
You know what I mean.
00:22:51.915 --> 00:22:57.173
I can't afford to do that type of stuff, and so you know there's that aspect of it.
00:22:57.980 --> 00:23:04.691
But if you look at in terms of like, from an objective standpoint, where the top athletes are, go look at the world championships.
00:23:04.691 --> 00:23:06.755
These are an amazing performances.
00:23:06.755 --> 00:23:11.117
People don't even understand it because no one is paying attention, no one's following it or covering it.
00:23:11.117 --> 00:23:13.268
Right and and, and some of these athletes too right.
00:23:13.268 --> 00:23:19.454
Maybe English isn't their strong suit, maybe they don't have a media team behind them.
00:23:19.454 --> 00:23:25.310
Like you know, you see a lot of top European and American guys having, but so they can't maybe explain the story.
00:23:25.310 --> 00:23:32.567
Someone like yourself, who knows the sport real well, and myself who knows the sport well we don't explain the story.
00:23:32.567 --> 00:23:34.685
I've tried to explain to people.
00:23:34.685 --> 00:23:39.526
There's been years where, say, I won the world championship.
00:23:39.526 --> 00:23:45.250
People didn't understand what that performance really meant because it's a course that not a lot of people run.
00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:49.671
So then fast forward 2020, was it last year?
00:23:49.671 --> 00:23:53.026
Last year, the world championships, that vertical race I told people.
00:23:53.026 --> 00:24:07.884
You know, out of all the championships, this was the cream of the crop and I'm not being biased at all but I'm like you, look at who was in that race, look at where they rank when they jump to other genres and those other athletes jumping in genres and meet in the middle.
00:24:07.884 --> 00:24:10.650
By and large these are the best athletes.
00:24:10.650 --> 00:24:17.228
I got fifth that year and I'm telling people, if you look at the times, what we ran.
00:24:19.132 --> 00:24:31.088
Petro Mamo, you know, in my opinion, you know, if the doping thing didn't happen and I get it, I don't know how much it really helped him and I don't think he's a doper per se.
00:24:31.088 --> 00:24:40.086
I think a lot of his earlier performance, I think he did them clean, if I had to really give my honest opinion, because he was an out of competition pool with me.
00:24:40.086 --> 00:24:41.726
So he's being tested and stuff.
00:24:41.726 --> 00:24:46.701
So you know, anyway, some of the stuff he had done was pretty amazing.
00:24:46.701 --> 00:24:52.152
The same course we used, right, petro had run was a very good time.
00:24:52.211 --> 00:24:58.731
If you've run that course, you know like this is legit, I got and we and we ran longer too.
00:24:58.731 --> 00:25:05.323
So at the world championships they had to add a loop, okay, because it was such a big field and that and still didn't help, because it's such a competitive field.
00:25:05.323 --> 00:25:12.487
People were, we were crowded, I don't know where I was, but there was a stream of people ahead of me and I went out.
00:25:12.487 --> 00:25:31.951
I thought I went out pretty good, but there was just it's a pile of people out there and, um, I ended up beating Petro's record on this record on the same course, with the addition, and I got fifth and I wasn't even in sight at the time of like patrick and all that that day and I thought I ran solid too.
00:25:31.990 --> 00:25:36.075
You know, like I I for the build-up, that I had a shorter build-up.
00:25:36.075 --> 00:25:41.391
I had like a little niggle and um, but I thought I you know, I had a good build-up coming into it.
00:25:41.692 --> 00:25:47.853
Um, the the championship I had lost to a guy at our championship.
00:25:47.853 --> 00:25:50.224
I won our championship but I lost to the Canadian.
00:25:50.224 --> 00:25:56.830
And so everyone's like, oh, you know, they thought he was going to beat me and I was like, you know, I wasn't in that great of shape and that's me.
00:25:56.830 --> 00:25:57.800
You know.
00:25:57.800 --> 00:26:10.643
Honestly, I didn't have the time, I wasn't ready, just period at the at that championship I still won the U S title, but he, he spanked me and I said you know, you give me another month of training, it'll look very different.
00:26:10.643 --> 00:26:12.307
And sure enough, you know it did.
00:26:12.307 --> 00:26:18.085
But I mean, again putting it in perspective, people don't understand how fast we ran that day because they don't know that course.
00:26:18.085 --> 00:26:19.968
There's not a lot of history on it, you know.
00:26:19.968 --> 00:26:25.096
I think ultra you have a lot of people explaining specifically segments, pieces of the course.
00:26:25.096 --> 00:26:31.288
You have a lot of people really focusing on that data and it doesn't happen as much, I think, in sub-ultra.
00:26:31.309 --> 00:26:32.480
It's a good point and again.
00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:35.183
right, you would need the elites to explain it.
00:26:35.183 --> 00:26:51.642
A sub-elite person can explain some of those segments because it's such a long race that say, I can go do a training run on some of the Western courts, western states segments and I could probably get them or be very close to them on like Strava type stuff.
00:26:51.642 --> 00:27:00.736
But it would be very difficult for me to jump in some of these really historic sub-altra races and get anywhere near those segments.
00:27:00.736 --> 00:27:10.416
Yeah, you know, even if you add 10 years of my life right now and I'm kind of way slower than I am now I could still touch a lot of these segments and some of these big ultra ones and just a training run.
00:27:10.416 --> 00:27:14.415
But those days would be long gone for any of these sub-ultra ones.
00:27:14.415 --> 00:27:15.689
So I couldn't really explain it to you.
00:27:15.709 --> 00:27:16.392
Yeah, the comparison.
00:27:16.392 --> 00:27:17.173
You know what I mean.
00:27:17.365 --> 00:27:18.287
Yeah, but you know what I mean?
00:27:18.287 --> 00:27:30.080
Yeah, but uh, yeah, I think that's another big, you know reason, you know as to why I think ultra has maybe more eyes on it.
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:41.673
Yeah, attention media when you bring in the race topic too, and I I dude, I really agree with you and that's why I was really happy now we're starting to see at least in the golden trail side, and I even got to meet them this year.
00:27:41.673 --> 00:27:52.893
I was excited to like meet patrick and philomon, okay, and having, you know, just having more diversity in the sport, like something we lacked, like for years and years and years, that you've always been a large proponent of, which you know.
00:27:52.893 --> 00:27:58.310
It's just exciting to hear and see more and more folks getting I don't know just getting into the sport and rising to the top.
00:27:58.471 --> 00:28:02.058
But even that's still like not to like waste time.
00:28:02.058 --> 00:28:05.996
But even that's still kind of bogus because Patrick's legit.
00:28:05.996 --> 00:28:10.817
He should have a individual like contract.
00:28:10.817 --> 00:28:12.009
It shouldn't be through that group.
00:28:12.009 --> 00:28:12.906
Yeah, how does that?
00:28:12.967 --> 00:28:13.167
work.
00:28:13.167 --> 00:28:14.632
Do you, can you speak to that at all?
00:28:14.632 --> 00:28:16.528
I don't really know there was a guy helped get.
00:28:17.996 --> 00:28:19.771
You know I was trying to help him with the visa processing.
00:28:19.771 --> 00:28:26.134
You know I was trying to help him with the visa process and you know kind of detach from that and so he got out of it and he shared a lot of stuff with me.
00:28:26.134 --> 00:28:29.893
But I mean to make a long story short.
00:28:29.893 --> 00:28:31.256
They're not getting what they deserve.
00:28:31.415 --> 00:28:32.317
Yeah, I'll put it that way.
00:28:32.317 --> 00:28:33.989
Oh, dude, they should be making like.
00:28:34.190 --> 00:28:34.852
You know Patrick's?
00:28:34.852 --> 00:28:35.693
Yeah, he's good.
00:28:35.693 --> 00:28:42.266
Yeah, he's very good, yeah, good, yeah, he's not getting anywhere near what he should, considering what I've seen him do in a couple races.
00:28:42.547 --> 00:29:09.771
Yeah you know I met him at cirque brighton and obviously he's banked my ass, but like it was just so, it was like poetry in motion watching him run dude like he's a tough guy, yeah strong yeah, so yeah, one of the things back to competition that I really want to dive into is that john aziz had said it to me when I had him on the pod, and I know John pretty well, and one of the things he just like spoke so highly of about you is that you were just like a master tactician when it comes to races.
00:29:09.771 --> 00:29:12.096
Like you, you know.
00:29:12.096 --> 00:29:18.515
Like you know, not only you know who's coming out, but you know, like, what they're going to do, you know who to draft off of.
00:29:18.515 --> 00:29:22.470
Like you're just like, like I don't know to be the greatest.
00:29:22.470 --> 00:29:30.695
I feel like that's one of the things that you would need to have is to be able to look at a field, dissect them and know what to do and how to do it.
00:29:30.695 --> 00:29:33.827
Have you always been that way, or is that something you kind of like an acquired skill?
00:29:34.087 --> 00:29:34.468
Probably.
00:29:34.468 --> 00:29:37.673
Um, you know, basketball was kind of my first sport.
00:29:37.673 --> 00:29:40.076
Um, really loved boxing too.
00:29:40.076 --> 00:29:47.186
So two sports that you need to know a little bit about what's coming your way specifically.
00:29:47.186 --> 00:29:51.471
You know, in basketball, right, you can be an extremely talented team.
00:29:51.471 --> 00:29:53.471
Come in there with a plan.
00:29:53.664 --> 00:29:55.791
Oh, we just we don't even need to run plays.
00:29:55.791 --> 00:30:02.112
Just show me, give me a top, you know screen to top of the key and we, good Like you, don't take it serious.
00:30:02.112 --> 00:30:08.976
You go against a team who's fundamentally sound and has a lot of different plans, and they a don't work, we go a, b, b don't work, we go to a C.
00:30:08.976 --> 00:30:12.973
They study their opponents, they know exactly what to do.
00:30:12.973 --> 00:30:14.651
Oh, you guys don't have a good guard.
00:30:14.651 --> 00:30:16.740
You know your guard.
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:18.589
Your one and two are not good under pressure.
00:30:18.589 --> 00:30:20.474
We're going to full court pressure the entire game.
00:30:20.474 --> 00:30:24.065
You guys are going to have way more turnovers than you're used to mentally.
00:30:24.065 --> 00:30:27.476
You're going to be mentally distraught by halftime and you guys are gonna play like complete trash.
00:30:27.476 --> 00:30:30.259
You just need to know what you're going to be up against.
00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:30.982
The same with running.
00:30:31.042 --> 00:30:46.971
It's like if I know you race a certain way, or I know the course and I can tell how fast I'm running, I know where I'm at, like even when we were at Loon, I knew from how hard we were running and the pace and the weather and whatnot.
00:30:46.971 --> 00:31:00.596
I was like I think I told John, I was just like yo, chill, chill, chill, chill, don't make a mistake here, because it will feel very different in about 15 minutes.
00:31:00.596 --> 00:31:03.458
And yeah, man, it was.
00:31:03.458 --> 00:31:06.559
I think you have to know a little bit about what's coming.
00:31:06.940 --> 00:31:08.800
Yeah, that's just so interesting to me.
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.122
Yeah, john, he's good people, though I love.
00:31:11.142 --> 00:31:11.382
John.
00:31:11.382 --> 00:31:13.221
John dude, I had him on.
00:31:13.221 --> 00:31:14.923
I don't think I put it on the podcast.
00:31:14.923 --> 00:31:15.702
I think I cut it out.
00:31:16.483 --> 00:31:16.663
Okay.
00:31:16.663 --> 00:31:19.207
Because, you know he's an aerospace engineers.
00:31:19.227 --> 00:31:19.346
He's a.
00:31:19.346 --> 00:31:19.887
He's a brain.
00:31:19.887 --> 00:31:28.000
I think I asked him if we went to the moon and he was so offended by that question Podcast over man, I'm out.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.131
It was so funny, dude yeah.
00:31:31.131 --> 00:31:32.634
So you said boxing.
00:31:33.036 --> 00:31:33.237
Yeah.
00:31:33.465 --> 00:31:34.846
It's funny you say that Cause like I.
00:31:34.846 --> 00:31:39.394
Can you believe Tyson's going to fight this week against what was it?
00:31:39.394 --> 00:31:40.075
Jake Paul kid?
00:31:40.075 --> 00:31:41.917
I don't want to see that Same man.
00:31:41.917 --> 00:31:42.799
It's 60 years old.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:43.990
What are we doing here?
00:31:45.326 --> 00:31:45.625
I just.
00:31:45.625 --> 00:31:48.834
I mean, it sounds like his health isn't in line.
00:31:48.834 --> 00:31:53.253
I'm like I love Tyson too, but you know, if they have a no knockout clause and I don't know.
00:31:53.525 --> 00:31:54.586
No, they just announced it.
00:31:54.586 --> 00:31:55.366
You can knock out.
00:31:55.366 --> 00:31:56.268
You can knock him out.
00:31:56.268 --> 00:31:57.128
He got rid of the claws.
00:31:57.229 --> 00:32:03.556
Yeah, well, that could be better for Tyson, because he does look good.
00:32:03.556 --> 00:32:06.259
Now, if you stretch, is it three-minute rounds.
00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:07.500
It is three-minute rounds.
00:32:07.540 --> 00:32:08.442
I think it's three-minute rounds.
00:32:09.545 --> 00:32:12.473
I think, it's no no no, I bet you it's not.
00:32:12.473 --> 00:32:13.336
I bet it's two-minute rounds.
00:32:13.336 --> 00:32:19.271
I just put it.
00:32:19.271 --> 00:32:27.181
I literally like before you came's going to make him look really bad in the later rounds just because his fitness probably isn't.
00:32:27.181 --> 00:32:28.781
And it never has been really.
00:32:28.923 --> 00:32:29.045
Yeah.
00:32:29.709 --> 00:32:30.505
And even in his prime.
00:32:30.505 --> 00:32:41.753
But if they have the knockout, no knockout, or if they can do the knockouts like man Tyson's, his combos are lethal and I don't think Jake Paul has the footwork to deal with that.
00:32:41.753 --> 00:32:51.079
No um, you gotta have good footwork when you're dealing with someone like tyson tyson's the he got some crisp hooks man both hands he's a powerhouse.
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.726
He just has so much power behind it's.
00:32:52.806 --> 00:32:53.247
You know what?
00:32:53.247 --> 00:32:54.529
It's not even the power like.
00:32:54.529 --> 00:32:57.236
I don't look at him as he has power per se.
00:32:57.236 --> 00:33:00.132
It's the precision yeah they're very clean.
00:33:00.132 --> 00:33:10.407
You know, like man, even when I did some sparring right, you would be sparring somebody who's really strong, like they can thump and uh, but they don't, they don't, they're never on target.
00:33:10.407 --> 00:33:11.871
It's wild.
00:33:11.871 --> 00:33:15.238
And when they throw wild they end up hurting their arm.
00:33:15.238 --> 00:33:16.186
You know they.
00:33:16.186 --> 00:33:18.590
They hurt themselves two, three rounds later.
00:33:18.611 --> 00:33:26.855
It has no pop on it yeah tyson's crisp, his fit like his stamina is what is the reason he loses the pop, but those first two rounds.
00:33:26.855 --> 00:33:29.990
If I was jake paul, scared to death.
00:33:30.590 --> 00:33:31.452
So this is what it is.
00:33:31.452 --> 00:33:32.895
It's knockouts are permitted.
00:33:32.895 --> 00:33:34.298
Sanctioned pro bout.
00:33:34.298 --> 00:33:39.794
Uh, eight, eight, two minute rounds, oh, yeah, and 14 ounce clubs.
00:33:39.934 --> 00:33:42.980
I think jake's in trouble dude oh my god, 14 ounces too.
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:43.727
Yeah, he gonna.
00:33:43.727 --> 00:33:46.815
He'll have some pop-up, there's gonna be some fire coming up.
00:33:46.894 --> 00:33:50.632
Oh my god, I mean even an old tyson I would be terrified of.
00:33:50.652 --> 00:33:51.473
Yeah, no, he's still.
00:33:51.473 --> 00:33:54.169
I mean, he's still very sound man, his footwork is still really good.
00:33:54.169 --> 00:33:59.644
Um hey, but no disrespect though, jake, jake's an athlete.
00:33:59.644 --> 00:34:00.914
Yeah, he's a very good athlete.
00:34:00.914 --> 00:34:03.210
Uh, honestly, I think he's in the wrong sport.
00:34:03.210 --> 00:34:06.109
I, if I was him, him and his brother should go to MMA.
00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:08.630
Yeah, I could see that, cause they're solid on the mat.
00:34:08.630 --> 00:34:12.335
Yeah, and now they're both pretty solid standup game too.
00:34:12.335 --> 00:34:15.009
So, and it might be more well.
00:34:15.009 --> 00:34:17.472
There's more money in boxing.
00:34:17.472 --> 00:34:20.717
Yeah, jake's doing the right thing, brother should do MMA though.
00:34:20.817 --> 00:34:22.480
Yeah, logan, I can see that.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.248
Yeah, do you follow MMA at all?
00:34:25.985 --> 00:34:28.206
Not as much, but.
00:34:28.266 --> 00:34:30.028
I mean, I know you know, I know.
00:34:30.028 --> 00:34:30.911
Got an idea what's going on?
00:34:30.911 --> 00:34:31.672
Yeah, a little bit.
00:34:31.672 --> 00:34:37.059
Oh man, big Mighty Mouse fan, he's like oh no, no, I do, did follow him.
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.461
He's not really fighting that much now he's retired, love him I loved him.
00:34:40.501 --> 00:34:41.722
Yeah, he's from washington, didn't he?
00:34:41.722 --> 00:34:44.746
I think so yeah, I think he's from, I think he went to the high school down the street.
00:34:44.786 --> 00:34:47.954
For me that's yeah, I'm pretty positive, that's crazy he's a little dude, dude.
00:34:47.974 --> 00:34:54.246
He's like shorter than me, he's like five, three, five, four people who are built for violence, like yeah they were born to do violent stuff.
00:34:55.027 --> 00:34:56.570
He's one yeah that's for sure.
00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:57.110
That's for sure.
00:34:57.110 --> 00:34:57.932
I mean, I saw him.
00:34:57.932 --> 00:35:03.525
Uh, you know, I used to follow muay thai a little bit and um, what's his name?
00:35:03.525 --> 00:35:05.530
Rotang wrote.
00:35:05.530 --> 00:35:06.331
I can't remember his name.
00:35:06.331 --> 00:35:29.108
Dude is a bad bad man and he fought him and I thought when, when they announced it, I was like I think that's a bad idea yeah and, but they did like a well, I know what you're talking about a one round mu tie and dimitri's put, put it on a man dude, he's, he's a goat, I mean, like a lot of people wildly consider him the best expression of mixed martial arts.
00:35:29.148 --> 00:35:35.269
Yeah, there's no, uh, there's no conversation, and this, this is this is the parallel between sub ultra and that weight class.
00:35:35.369 --> 00:35:44.507
it's like there's just like not enough people in that weight class per se, so it never got gigantic, which sucks, you know, not enough people in that weight class per se, so it never got gigantic, which sucks, you know, not enough eyes.
00:35:44.527 --> 00:35:50.612
That's the one thing that does suck about boxing, like having kind of pay attention to both, and I'm a fan of both.
00:35:50.612 --> 00:35:53.416
I see I can't help but compare them.
00:35:53.416 --> 00:35:57.032
Yeah, think, like dang, they got four sanctioning bodies.
00:35:57.032 --> 00:35:59.012
They can hide from one another.
00:35:59.012 --> 00:36:01.454
You can move up classes if someone's dangerous.
00:36:01.454 --> 00:36:02.967
I'm like in our sport.
00:36:02.967 --> 00:36:09.960
You know, if I'm going to the mountain champs they're not going to be like oh, you know you won because you're 180 pounds.
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.972
You know you're going against everybody.
00:36:11.992 --> 00:36:12.474
Doesn't matter.
00:36:13.085 --> 00:36:13.748
A championship.
00:36:13.748 --> 00:36:14.713
It's one championship.
00:36:14.713 --> 00:36:17.349
You don't get to go switch to a different sanctioning body.
00:36:17.349 --> 00:36:21.778
It's like you got to go into the lion's den, yeah yeah, dude, and that's just so.
00:36:22.126 --> 00:36:28.952
That's another crazy thing too is like one of the things I think that's like under under discussed about the sport is like ultra.
00:36:28.952 --> 00:36:51.851
You kind of have an idea of who's who, but like, when it comes to these, like I don't know whether it's a national change for nationals race or something like, let's say, like sunupi for a qualifier, dude, everybody who's to these races you know and like even you get track and field guys like dude, one of my favorite things you did in your career was and this is no shade to Garrett Heath, but like what you did to him at loon like oh, my God.
00:36:53.856 --> 00:36:57.184
Like just you know you get these like supremely talented people.
00:36:57.184 --> 00:37:07.329
But like when it comes to you know the right, right course, the right athlete to the right day, you know just like what you're able to do is just crazy so yeah, you got to be able to compete, man yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:07.329 --> 00:37:18.197
So we talked about tax, like the tactician, like one of the things is competition too, like you, come across as a hyper competitive person, would you?
00:37:18.197 --> 00:37:18.945
Would you agree with that?
00:37:19.849 --> 00:37:21.976
yeah, yeah, I like to compete, for sure.
00:37:22.144 --> 00:37:23.635
Have you always been competitive?
00:37:23.635 --> 00:37:24.885
Or is that like oh yeah, yeah.
00:37:25.346 --> 00:37:29.152
Yeah, even when I was getting in trouble, man, I wanted to be the best at getting in trouble.
00:37:29.152 --> 00:37:31.793
Whatever we're doing, I wanted to be the best at that too.
00:37:31.793 --> 00:37:35.695
So, yeah, I like to compete, yeah.
00:37:36.364 --> 00:37:40.733
What do you do, like when you're not training, like if you're not training, if you're just hanging out with the fam?
00:37:40.733 --> 00:37:43.039
I know you're really into cooking and stuff like that.
00:37:48.990 --> 00:38:02.864
What do you do outside of that grind, that struggle, man?
00:38:02.864 --> 00:38:08.639
You know, now that we have kids, man, I'm a big believer that your family, your people in your circle, are the most important thing in terms of your time in life, and so a lot of it is just the hobbies with them, like things that they want to do.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:14.556
And, you know, hanging out with my kids, just spending time with them, making sure my wife you know she's getting my time.
00:38:14.556 --> 00:38:24.335
I put a lot of energy into my running and that's my passion, but outside of that I would say family is like the biggest thing for me.
00:38:24.516 --> 00:38:24.697
Yes.
00:38:24.925 --> 00:38:26.425
You know and and community right.
00:38:26.425 --> 00:38:38.610
Like people around me, people in my circle, like making sure you know, we break bread together and we spend time with one another and you know, we have conversations and you going through something, let's talk about it.
00:38:38.610 --> 00:38:55.878
Like you know, I think that the one-on-one relationships, our relationships with people, is the most important, so I would say that's a huge hobby for me is making sure I'm close with people and communicating and spending time with people that I love and appreciate.
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:00.141
One of the questions from the audience, because I did field some questions yesterday.
00:39:00.141 --> 00:39:02.561
A lot of people wanted to know how you balance everything.
00:39:02.561 --> 00:39:05.802
They were very curious on how you balance being a dad, being a husband.
00:39:09.105 --> 00:39:11.630
I don't even know how to like.
00:39:11.630 --> 00:39:12.590
It's amazing, you know.
00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:13.954
I would say I'm pretty blessed with.
00:39:13.954 --> 00:39:17.139
My wife is like a big giver.
00:39:17.139 --> 00:39:23.076
She's not a person who asks for a lot, lot.
00:39:23.076 --> 00:39:23.539
She never has been.
00:39:23.539 --> 00:39:25.025
Um, she really loves being a mom.
00:39:25.025 --> 00:39:28.413
So she does take a lot of load off of me in terms of like.
00:39:28.413 --> 00:39:40.010
You know, even a day like today, right, I said I'm doing the pod with my boy james, she's like well, I'll come, I'll come home early from work, I'll work from home, I'll go pick up, pick up the kids.
00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:41.994
She'll just do whatever.
00:39:42.034 --> 00:39:42.876
Oh, my God, Thank you.
00:39:42.896 --> 00:39:47.335
You know what I mean she's there for me, I'm hurt, my leg hurts.
00:39:47.335 --> 00:39:48.849
She'll massage me every day.
00:39:48.849 --> 00:39:50.632
She does massage me pretty much every day.
00:39:50.632 --> 00:39:57.010
There's been times where I landed in where was I?
00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:58.050
I think I was in Heathrow.
00:39:58.050 --> 00:39:59.753
My flight got canceled to the U?
00:39:59.753 --> 00:39:59.972
S.
00:39:59.972 --> 00:40:03.876
I'm like, I'm stressed out and she's like oh, I'm already looking at hotels for you.
00:40:03.876 --> 00:40:06.139
She just booked me a hotel.
00:40:06.139 --> 00:40:06.978
You know what I mean.
00:40:06.978 --> 00:40:15.666
And like she's, she's, she's there, she's just that's a life partner.
00:40:15.686 --> 00:40:17.088
Having somebody who has your back like that is priceless.
00:40:17.088 --> 00:40:18.349
I think it definitely helps you balance things out.
00:40:18.349 --> 00:40:22.315
But then, on the other end too, I think when you talk about balancing life, it has to be a passion.
00:40:22.315 --> 00:40:26.081
You have to have passions that other people might think are stressors.
00:40:26.081 --> 00:40:29.012
Right, like some people think kids are stressors or oh that's.
00:40:29.012 --> 00:40:30.496
You know this is difficult.
00:40:30.496 --> 00:40:35.097
I look at that as like a huge gift and so it's a passion.
00:40:35.097 --> 00:40:44.119
Like if you look at it as something negative and it's something that really bothers you and that's your perspective, I think it's going to be difficult for you to balance that out.
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:54.177
You have to learn how to make that a blessing, how to fit yeah, how to change your perspective, how to understand or even utilize, change things to make it a blessing.
00:40:56.106 --> 00:40:58.554
For me, discipline is very important.
00:40:58.554 --> 00:41:02.748
If I let my kids run wild, I see some people they don't discipline their children.
00:41:02.748 --> 00:41:05.175
They let their children run crazy, do whatever they want.
00:41:05.175 --> 00:41:06.028
I don't believe in that.
00:41:06.028 --> 00:41:11.490
It might be stressful initially, I have to pay attention to certain things, but then they become a blessing.
00:41:11.490 --> 00:41:11.692
Like.
00:41:11.692 --> 00:41:12.914
My kids understand that.
00:41:12.914 --> 00:41:13.797
They're very respectful.
00:41:13.797 --> 00:41:16.568
They know when I say no, when I say yes.
00:41:16.568 --> 00:41:22.760
They understand what to do and they do when they want to make you happy, right Like I think kids love discipline and direction.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:23.059
Yeah.
00:41:23.605 --> 00:41:27.612
And it ends up being a blessing right, like hey, you know, daddy needs a drink.
00:41:27.612 --> 00:41:29.028
Okay, daddy, I'll get it for you.
00:41:29.570 --> 00:41:30.012
You know what I mean?
00:41:30.072 --> 00:41:36.315
Oh man, they want to be a part of the plan, and even there's days where you know you want to be lazy or something.
00:41:36.315 --> 00:41:37.217
Hey, yeah, let's go do this.
00:41:37.217 --> 00:41:38.197
You know what I mean.
00:41:38.197 --> 00:41:39.557
So it's like that's a blessing.
00:41:39.818 --> 00:41:39.978
Yeah.
00:41:40.398 --> 00:41:44.621
You know you could just be a deadbeat and lay on the couch all day, but then your kids are like let's go do something.
00:41:44.621 --> 00:41:51.418
So it's like for me, I look at that as like man, this, that's a blessing to have you know, to have that.
00:41:51.764 --> 00:41:52.166
I love that.
00:41:52.166 --> 00:41:57.637
It's an amazing answer too, because, like I said, that was one of the biggest questions people ask is how does he pounce?
00:41:57.637 --> 00:41:58.496
How does he do all this?
00:41:58.496 --> 00:42:02.378
So and it takes a village man, you know, like sure, yeah my parents are here.
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:06.181
You know, if we need a date night, um, my parents can.
00:42:06.181 --> 00:42:10.083
Can watch the kids, even though I mean, I like to have date night with the kids too.
00:42:10.083 --> 00:42:10.882
Yeah, it's fun.
00:42:10.882 --> 00:42:13.126
I forgot who I think it was my mom was like.
00:42:13.126 --> 00:42:21.572
You know, you need to make sure that you value your wife and you show that appreciation to her individually.
00:42:21.572 --> 00:42:25.733
You know, I think that was a very good piece of marriage good advice.
00:42:25.813 --> 00:42:27.057
Yeah, I would advise it to you.
00:42:27.057 --> 00:42:28.266
I, dude, I couldn't agree more.
00:42:28.326 --> 00:42:32.375
yeah, but, um, because you know I'm again man, like family's everything for me.
00:42:32.375 --> 00:42:38.768
So our first few date nights I got the whole, all the kids there, and then my mom says that to me and I was like I didn't even think about it.
00:42:38.768 --> 00:42:42.818
Like that, yeah, cause you do start to lose each other just a little bit.
00:42:42.818 --> 00:42:44.311
I think it's natural.
00:42:44.311 --> 00:42:49.675
Yeah, we need to raise these children, we need to make sure our attention needs to be focused on them to some extent.
00:42:49.675 --> 00:42:57.807
So, um, yeah, man, it's, it's, uh, it's been a blessing to have my parents here too, just if I need them to watch the kids.
00:42:58.429 --> 00:42:59.349
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:59.349 --> 00:43:00.452
Oh, dude, it's a beautiful answer.
00:43:00.452 --> 00:43:03.317
I appreciate that Cause I appreciate the advice too.
00:43:03.317 --> 00:43:04.820
That's good man.
00:43:05.045 --> 00:43:06.128
Yeah, definitely keep it on your head.
00:43:06.128 --> 00:43:08.474
When you have kids, man, it's something to think about, for sure.
00:43:09.094 --> 00:43:18.929
Let me ask you this man, this is something to me just because, like this, is a fun for you.
00:43:19.731 --> 00:43:19.990
Yeah.
00:43:19.990 --> 00:43:31.422
Yeah it is, and I've always said you know, if I wasn't having fun, definitely in my prime years if I'm not having fun, I'm wasting my time.
00:43:31.422 --> 00:43:33.431
Time is your most valuable asset.
00:43:33.431 --> 00:43:35.733
I'm not going to waste my time if I'm not having fun.
00:43:35.733 --> 00:43:42.335
It looks different, you know, as you get older you maybe are hitting the same times that you were hitting before.
00:43:42.335 --> 00:43:44.192
You're still kind of, you're almost chasing a ghost.
00:43:44.413 --> 00:43:44.572
Yeah.
00:43:45.005 --> 00:43:45.963
But for me that's fun.
00:43:45.963 --> 00:43:50.076
Right Like I'm, I'm still trying to chase something down and I feel like I could still do things.
00:43:50.076 --> 00:43:57.233
You know, um, I think when they're completely out of reach, it might change your perspective a little bit.
00:43:57.233 --> 00:44:05.373
But, uh, country representing sponsors who believe in my passion and are funding my passion, like again, huge blessing.
00:44:05.373 --> 00:44:10.364
I've said that word a million times, but you know you can't do it without them.
00:44:10.364 --> 00:44:15.014
Yeah, and it definitely is something that elevates the fun, I think, to some degree.
00:44:15.275 --> 00:44:16.077
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:16.077 --> 00:44:20.936
I think that, like you said, like once it becomes a grind and it's not that, then it's.
00:44:20.936 --> 00:44:22.086
Then you start to.
00:44:22.086 --> 00:44:30.961
You have to look from within, but, like man, that's so amazing to me that, like you've been in the sport like for a really long time and you still like, love it and it's just so much fun.
00:44:31.304 --> 00:44:32.708
It's the greatest sport on earth.
00:44:32.708 --> 00:44:35.942
Well, we were getting to the, we were getting to the 40 thing.
00:44:35.942 --> 00:44:36.804
That's what I was gonna.
00:44:36.804 --> 00:44:43.789
So, and it's so crazy, dude, like you don't I mean, like you know, obviously I'm blowing smoke up your ass, but like you, you really don't look.
00:44:43.789 --> 00:44:46.768
You don't look 40, but like what is 40 now at this point, you know.
00:44:47.230 --> 00:44:48.273
But like right.
00:44:48.273 --> 00:44:48.635
How does?
00:44:48.675 --> 00:44:49.418
that number?
00:44:49.418 --> 00:44:51.063
How do you think about that now?
00:44:51.063 --> 00:44:58.318
Because, like you're at that age, you're, you're I mean, it doesn't look like that me or him or anybody else.
00:44:58.318 --> 00:44:59.686
You're slowing down, like how does?
00:44:59.686 --> 00:45:02.889
How do you think about that, oh man?
00:45:02.949 --> 00:45:03.811
I don't know.
00:45:03.811 --> 00:45:14.842
It's strange because if you have a bad day, you can kind of rely on the fact that you're racing against people your age, like there's a new category for you.
00:45:14.842 --> 00:45:18.867
Yeah, but I don't know if I like it.
00:45:18.867 --> 00:45:35.469
There's some disdain there for me, because it's like you're kind of more centrally focused when things are going bad and it's like no, no, I got to compete, I got to compete and so I feel like there's like that invisible friend of yours hey, it's good, man, chill out, you can have a bad one.
00:45:35.469 --> 00:45:37.931
Look at the next master.
00:45:37.931 --> 00:45:38.706
He's way back there.
00:45:38.706 --> 00:45:41.476
You know, it's like you don't want that to creep in.
00:45:41.476 --> 00:45:45.393
So that's the strange aspect of it for me.
00:45:45.534 --> 00:45:46.416
That is interesting.
00:45:47.865 --> 00:45:48.628
You're also, do you-?
00:45:48.628 --> 00:45:49.967
I've heard this from other guys.
00:45:49.967 --> 00:45:55.253
You know other masters who were kind of in my shoes at one point, and I've heard other, different perspectives.
00:45:55.253 --> 00:45:58.030
They're like, man, when I became a master.
00:45:58.030 --> 00:46:01.277
I'm not competing how I was before.
00:46:01.277 --> 00:46:01.637
I'm done.
00:46:01.637 --> 00:46:05.123
They're like, but I'm like, nah, I still want to win Right right.
00:46:05.123 --> 00:46:10.592
I still won, you know, some titles as a 40-year-old national open and I still want to.
00:46:11.804 --> 00:46:16.056
I mean, so you're still obviously favored to go represent Team USA next year.
00:46:16.056 --> 00:46:18.032
I mean, I would be surprised if you didn't.
00:46:18.032 --> 00:46:19.208
You know, I think everybody would.
00:46:19.208 --> 00:46:28.025
From a betting perspective, how does that so?
00:46:28.025 --> 00:46:31.119
It's like you're in this weird place too, because regarded as the greatest of all time, one of the greatest of all times in the world.
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:32.364
Like when you think about retirement.
00:46:32.364 --> 00:46:33.608
Like how does what do you like?
00:46:33.608 --> 00:46:35.875
How does that look like in the in the longterm?
00:46:35.875 --> 00:46:37.007
Like what does that look like to you?
00:46:37.327 --> 00:46:39.713
Yeah, no idea, man.
00:46:39.713 --> 00:46:59.748
Um, um, I mean, I guess it'd just be more, more time poured into the kids yeah, you know, um, I try not to let my running get in the way of them and what they need, and but, um, yeah, if you're not traveling anymore, then I guess it's just more time with the family podcast.
00:46:59.748 --> 00:47:03.697
Start a podcast come podcast, come and commentate.
00:47:04.809 --> 00:47:05.913
I'll give you your own show, dude.
00:47:05.913 --> 00:47:09.112
You come over anytime you want the Jim and Joe show.
00:47:09.112 --> 00:47:10.757
There you go, there's my, there's my pitch.
00:47:10.757 --> 00:47:24.690
So, all right, I'm going to pivot a little hard, cause one of the things that I think you and I strongly agree on um and you've been, you've talked a lot about it and I've listened to it on a bunch of podcasts is anti-doping.
00:47:24.690 --> 00:47:31.231
One of the things that I admire about you is, like are you like, how does this work with this out of season pool that you're in?
00:47:31.231 --> 00:47:33.228
I mean, is there a lot of americans even in that?
00:47:33.228 --> 00:47:33.690
Like how does that?
00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:33.931
work.
00:47:33.931 --> 00:47:39.534
I mean, and that's the big problem was trail running right like man?
00:47:39.534 --> 00:47:48.057
I think I can only name two athletes who've ever been in the auto competition testing pool who have been top american mountain runners me and max king yeah that's crazy.
00:47:48.057 --> 00:47:56.059
Um and honestly, I think the only reason we were in it was from results outside of mountain.
00:47:56.059 --> 00:47:59.023
So maybe I have to ask Max.
00:47:59.023 --> 00:48:03.773
I'd have to guess Max got in it for the same reason I did for our cross country results.
00:48:04.094 --> 00:48:04.253
Yeah.
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:12.233
I think I won nationals and I think that's when I pretty much went in like a couple of weeks later.
00:48:12.233 --> 00:48:16.311
Yeah, so it wasn't really mountain running technically.
00:48:16.693 --> 00:48:19.643
Yeah, it's just, I was a mountain runner, you know who happened to be in it.
00:48:19.643 --> 00:48:34.389
But I don't think they focused enough on how to understand objectively who should be in the pool, as they do with road and track, and obviously it's easier Road and track, it's a measured distance.
00:48:34.389 --> 00:48:37.384
Yeah, At times it's very objective, very objective.
00:48:37.384 --> 00:48:53.333
You know, if me and you do two different mountain races but we're both great it's maybe hard to know who should be tested and who it's not necessarily worth it for to be tested or waste money on testing them.
00:48:53.333 --> 00:48:54.737
So, and it's a tough one, man, that's interesting.
00:48:54.777 --> 00:48:55.824
I mean I would love to head it.
00:48:56.126 --> 00:48:56.327
Yeah.
00:48:56.427 --> 00:48:58.117
When I retire, that'd be, something I would love.
00:48:58.117 --> 00:49:03.871
I feel like I could easily create a way for them to understand, even if I have to look at every athlete individually.
00:49:03.871 --> 00:49:04.773
I could do that.
00:49:04.773 --> 00:49:19.240
I know what it looks like, I know what greatness looks like or what you know red flag looks like in our sport and so um, it'd be good for us to get get dialed in on that in the trial world, cause I think it's.
00:49:19.240 --> 00:49:22.606
I think it's happening more than people would like to believe.
00:49:22.847 --> 00:49:24.891
Yeah, um, I was going to ask you that.
00:49:24.891 --> 00:49:34.715
So I don't think a lot of people, whether it's belief, whether it's people turn their nose, or whether people just don't understand, I mean, I know this just as well.
00:49:34.715 --> 00:49:36.862
I mean, you know, that's way better than probably anybody else.
00:49:36.862 --> 00:49:51.365
Um, being at the top of the sport, especially now that there's money coming into the sport, what's big sponsorships and lots of sponsors looking to pay out athletes and there's a lot of money into it, and with that money comes doping.
00:49:51.365 --> 00:49:56.630
I mean, my assumption is that there's a lot more than people think at the top of the sport.
00:49:56.630 --> 00:49:57.882
Would you agree with that?
00:49:57.882 --> 00:49:59.427
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:59.668 --> 00:50:05.739
Yeah, I mean, but I think it's always kind of, I think it's been that way you think it's been that way for a while?
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:12.782
yeah, I think a lot of the, the shift to ultra, I think, has been fueled by that um, just, it's an easier pathway.
00:50:12.782 --> 00:50:24.239
There's very likely that you're not going to get tested a lot of those alters, whereas a lot of my races I am being tested, yeah, um, and you know there's not a lot of my races I am being tested, yeah, um, and you know there's not a lot of prize purses and and ultras.
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:33.389
So you could go to a race doped up but you have a sponsor and the guy in second didn't, or you got third and you get your race bonus.
00:50:33.699 --> 00:50:41.427
I get money and you don't, and so it's like it's kind of almost separating the field like the, the the haves and have nots with no testing.
00:50:41.427 --> 00:50:44.643
Yeah, separating the field like the the haves and have nots with no testing.
00:50:44.643 --> 00:50:48.273
Yeah, yeah, so you're still allowing people to make money without being vetted and um, yeah, man, I mean it's.
00:50:48.413 --> 00:51:16.306
it's crazy like I almost solely look at races that have testing, like just, I feel like I made more money in my career yeah when I focused on tested events so no, I I agree with it, man, I'm like I don't know and I'm not throwing names out there, like, but like there has been some notable europeans whose names have come up, or I mean, you even named one of them, petra, like there's quite a few people, I should say quite a few, but like most latest with stian um even maude.
00:51:16.768 --> 00:51:18.652
There's a lot of rumored.
00:51:19.072 --> 00:51:19.273
Yes.
00:51:19.713 --> 00:51:22.438
There's been a few caught, but there's a lot of rumors.
00:51:22.438 --> 00:51:27.472
Yeah, and there's a lot of, like I would say, more substantial than rumor.
00:51:27.472 --> 00:51:35.492
You know, I think your affiliations definitely take a rumor and they and it gives it a little more validity.
00:51:35.693 --> 00:52:12.000
Yeah, One of the things okay, so this interests me a lot no-transcript.
00:52:12.099 --> 00:52:16.070
They're not screening for a bunch of stuff like WADA and USADA would be screening for.
00:52:16.070 --> 00:52:25.851
But then, on top of that, these same scientists are working individually with athletes, with brands and I won't say specifically who the brands are, but I think you can put a two and two together.
00:52:25.851 --> 00:52:27.766
Yeah, and they're working with these athletes.
00:52:27.766 --> 00:52:30.748
That's a conflict of interest big time.
00:52:30.748 --> 00:52:33.780
But then, on top of that, you can't even protect the sport.
00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:41.590
So you created this false idea that you're doing anti-doping and you're protecting sport, when in reality you've made our sport far worse.
00:52:41.590 --> 00:52:45.344
Anti-doping and you're protecting sport, when in reality you've made our sport far worse.
00:52:45.364 --> 00:53:01.367
you've added a far more heinous group and power dynamic in our sport that didn't exist before and and such you saw performances jump in a lot of different events and, um, you know, on top of that you let's just say you test it positive they could tell you well, well, you can't race today, but you don't get banned.
00:53:01.367 --> 00:53:02.690
What?
00:53:02.690 --> 00:53:04.393
That's bogus Dude really.
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:05.907
You're not protecting the sport.
00:53:05.907 --> 00:53:10.190
Just get anti-doping at other races and actually protect the sport.
00:53:10.190 --> 00:53:18.523
Because if I'm on drugs and I show up to your race and you tell me I can't race, fine, I'll go to this other one across the valley and win, and then I'll go win some more after that.
00:53:18.523 --> 00:53:20.826
I'm not, you know.
00:53:20.826 --> 00:53:27.172
Then you can tell Wada, oh, this guy, but maybe they don't catch me, yeah, so it's like you guys are a smoke screen.
00:53:27.172 --> 00:53:28.693
You're not protecting our sport at all.
00:53:28.693 --> 00:53:30.235
You actually harmed our sport.
00:53:30.235 --> 00:53:33.197
They've done a lot of harm to our sport, I believe yeah.
00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:39.070
They've created athletes who have stolen money from our sport.
00:53:39.090 --> 00:53:40.918
I believe, oh, I totally agree with you.
00:53:40.918 --> 00:53:44.884
And I believe, oh, I totally agree with you.
00:53:44.884 --> 00:53:47.900
And so, um, yeah, man, I I could go on and on about that program, man, but I was very disappointed at the people who put that in.
00:53:47.900 --> 00:53:48.985
But then you think about it.
00:53:48.985 --> 00:53:53.780
One of the guys who brought it in also tested positive a couple of times in his career.
00:53:53.822 --> 00:53:57.342
So it's like, yeah, and if anybody wants to look that up, go look at the rut.
00:53:57.342 --> 00:53:58.164
What year was it?
00:53:58.164 --> 00:53:59.809
2014, 2015,?
00:53:59.809 --> 00:54:00.371
The rut 50 K.
00:54:00.371 --> 00:54:08.110
There was a oh, I won't name a name, but oh, yeah, yeah oh, yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that after the fact.
00:54:08.150 --> 00:54:09.693
But yeah, no, there's dude.
00:54:09.693 --> 00:54:10.842
It's crazy like I.
00:54:10.842 --> 00:54:25.929
I did not realize, and this is why I wanted to have this conversation, because I don't think, just like loving our sport and wanting our sport to grow and wanting the right athletes to rise to the top of the ones that deserve it, um, like conversations like this need to be had, and I think it's even more wild west in europe too.
00:54:25.929 --> 00:54:27.664
I think, well, that all right.
00:54:27.664 --> 00:54:28.690
So here's this question, too.
00:54:28.849 --> 00:54:36.945
Now a lot of things over the counter not even just europe, I mean, there are other parts of the world where things are over the counter that are banned and people are playing with them.
00:54:37.166 --> 00:54:39.351
Yeah, it's now.
00:54:39.351 --> 00:54:41.237
So court is court's technically gone now.
00:54:41.237 --> 00:54:42.340
Now let's, are they using?
00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:45.447
Because I know at pike's they use water it wasn't really gone from.
00:54:45.469 --> 00:54:51.751
What I understood is like the name isn't there, but there's still some similar policies that exist, so gotcha yeah, is that.
00:54:51.891 --> 00:54:57.219
So let me ask you this is that part of the reason like for like your series and gnaws and stuff like that?
00:54:57.219 --> 00:54:59.643
Like, will you ever go back and do something like that, or is that?
00:55:00.726 --> 00:55:04.090
I heard that they might be in the WMRA cup.
00:55:04.391 --> 00:55:04.632
Okay.
00:55:04.731 --> 00:55:06.315
So then I would love to go back.
00:55:06.454 --> 00:55:06.894
Absolutely.
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:08.242
We need real drug testing.
00:55:08.242 --> 00:55:13.184
I don't need you talking about a health program and people you know, basically skirting by.
00:55:13.545 --> 00:55:13.786
Right.
00:55:14.568 --> 00:55:17.981
So, um, yeah, if, if it has real drug testing, I would love to go back.
00:55:17.981 --> 00:55:19.403
You know I love that part of Switzerland.
00:55:19.403 --> 00:55:23.490
We got really close friends like family out there, so very connected.
00:55:23.490 --> 00:55:30.271
Um, earlier in my career I've had a big connection to being in Switzerland, so it's a it's a very special Valley for me.
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:32.021
Can you talk about cause?
00:55:32.021 --> 00:55:49.581
Like you, um, I don't know dude, like, even like you, back 2013, 14, 15, like you had some some battles at series and all.
00:55:49.621 --> 00:55:51.025
Can you, can you talk about some of those?
00:55:51.025 --> 00:55:54.931
Yeah, um, I think the year I got second there, man 14, I think it was yeah, I, I was winning and uh took a spill.
00:55:54.931 --> 00:55:57.916
And you know, there's the tourist classes on the course.
00:55:57.916 --> 00:56:00.867
They go up a couple hours before the leak.
00:56:00.867 --> 00:56:02.851
I don't know if they still do this, but they did back then.
00:56:02.851 --> 00:56:08.411
And so you start around, probably 10K or so to go.
00:56:08.411 --> 00:56:09.432
You start to pass them.
00:56:09.432 --> 00:56:12.650
They're not really in your way too much at that point you can get around them.
00:56:12.650 --> 00:56:18.710
But then you get kind of like there's a couple K left and there's like this rock garden and I just ran into this dude.
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:39.349
I came around the corner and just bam and uh, I was limping and hit my quad and sure enough, here comes killian and uh, you know he passed me and god damn it and you know, I always wonder, like man, if it wasn't raining, like if it was dry, because I ran a solid time but I was like if it was dry I might have been able to hold him off.
00:56:39.349 --> 00:56:50.628
But being that it was wet and like you know, when your quad is destroyed you just don't have the stability and you know you're losing a lot of power and then, with the terrain being wet, you're losing even more.
00:56:50.628 --> 00:56:54.804
So you know, it allowed him to really suck me up pretty quick.
00:56:54.804 --> 00:56:59.510
You know, catch up pretty fast and um, but yeah, man uh, it was.
00:56:59.630 --> 00:57:01.413
it was still a good battle, so cool.
00:57:01.532 --> 00:57:03.376
Yeah, I had a good time out there.
00:57:04.099 --> 00:57:12.268
So one of the things you talk about is power and wattage, especially when it comes to uphill running and stuff like that.
00:57:12.268 --> 00:57:18.112
I got a million questions on what do you do training-wise?
00:57:18.112 --> 00:57:20.945
Is it everything when you're thinking about this?
00:57:20.945 --> 00:57:25.989
Is it more so like when you're doing exercises, all this stuff?
00:57:25.989 --> 00:57:27.032
Is it all power related?
00:57:27.032 --> 00:57:31.512
Like how can I generate the most power to be able to run uphill, like as fast as possible, like what?
00:57:31.512 --> 00:57:32.541
How do you think about that?
00:57:34.487 --> 00:57:37.213
Me personally how I feel about I think it's very individual.
00:57:37.213 --> 00:57:40.067
It depends on your muscle makeup, uh, your fuel.
00:57:40.067 --> 00:57:43.983
You know how your body uses fuel, your size.
00:57:43.983 --> 00:57:51.615
You know what you're more comfortable on steep not so steep descending.
00:57:51.615 --> 00:58:01.072
But I honestly feel like if you develop a really good aerobic engine, it allows you to have sustained power.
00:58:01.072 --> 00:58:04.184
You know what I mean and so I'm not talking so much.
00:58:04.184 --> 00:58:15.023
When I'm talking about power, I'm not saying like like sprint power per se or anaerobic power, but if you have a really good aerobic ability, you have the ability then to sustain a hard effort.
00:58:15.023 --> 00:58:23.269
At threshold to where somebody only had power or just a lot of spring, they wouldn't be able to maintain that.
00:58:23.269 --> 00:58:29.264
You know you'd put them in debt pretty quick or they would find out very early I can't do this or in the middle of the race.
00:58:29.264 --> 00:58:30.166
This is too much.
00:58:30.166 --> 00:58:37.001
You know what I mean, and so I always compared it to, you know, me and Max right Early in our careers, when we first came in the sport.
00:58:37.764 --> 00:58:56.902
I was maybe coming from more of an aerobic background and Max coming more from an anaerobic background and he was like shoot eight, 30 ish, steepler, maybe even on the, on the button, and um, you know, I was a few seconds slower than the steeple and I definitely didn't do it from a speed approach Like I think he would.
00:58:56.902 --> 00:58:59.327
He was much better foot foot speed.
00:58:59.327 --> 00:59:19.346
So in our first ever meeting I knew I needed to be very aerobically fit coming into that race because he's going to be putting the hammer on me early on with his speed on this course and by midway my aerobic ability allowed me to kind of press him and stretch him in a way to where it made him uncomfortable.
00:59:19.346 --> 00:59:23.603
I was able to gap him and so then, you know, I was able to win that race.
00:59:23.603 --> 00:59:32.771
But if I had been, you know, thinking, oh, let me focus on my speed, he probably just outdistanced me at the end because he had better foot speed at the time.
00:59:32.771 --> 00:59:35.887
And so, you know, I really feel like that aerobic side.
00:59:35.907 --> 00:59:36.869
People forget about that.
00:59:36.869 --> 00:59:59.534
Yeah, a lot of guys are focusing speed, speed, speed, fast, and it's like the problem with that is you don't have an engine, you know, to sustain efforts and in mountain running, especially like sub ultra, you know, when you're dealing with steep terrain and just kind of undulating terrain, it throws your body in between anaerobic and aerobic, muscular, wise, in terms of how it's utilizing energy.
00:59:59.534 --> 01:00:02.206
Some people would think, oh, you run pikes a lot, that's an aerobic effort of how it's utilizing energy.
01:00:02.206 --> 01:00:03.523
Some people would think, oh, you run pikes a lot, that's an aerobic effort.
01:00:03.905 --> 01:00:39.085
And it's like not really your body is really shifting a lot because of this, that the steepness of the terrain so if you have a really good aerobic engine, you can go between both and your body has the right fuel, it knows how to fuel itself to stay there and not go from, say you, you know you kind of get into the anaerobic zone and then you drop, like your percentage drops from 40% because you're more of an anaerobic-focused athlete and so when you have that aerobic engine you're able to kind of like sustain that state in that aerobic zone, even when you're starting to kind of falter, so interesting.
01:00:39.586 --> 01:00:40.309
Do you lift at all?
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:47.864
In the off-season I do a little bit um, depending on what I'm getting ready for gotcha.
01:00:47.885 --> 01:00:52.141
Yeah, interesting yeah I had cam smith in here a while back or a couple weeks ago.
01:00:52.141 --> 01:00:54.893
Okay, dude, he's in the gym like five times a week.
01:00:54.893 --> 01:01:08.434
I mean his is different because it's schemo, but like he's still nasty good on steep stuff and I'm just like interesting yeah, man, yeah, cam was at pikes this year yeah I raced cam a lot this year actually.
01:01:08.454 --> 01:01:10.601
Yeah, you did everything, he did do everything.
01:01:10.601 --> 01:01:12.887
He was at gopro with me.
01:01:13.106 --> 01:01:18.063
Yeah, uh, circ, was it circ series, a basin he showed up, that's right, yeah, there too.
01:01:18.625 --> 01:01:21.331
Uh, so maybe I raced him more than I even thought initially.
01:01:21.451 --> 01:01:22.594
Yeah, he's everywhere.
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.331
He was at Pikes, and then I don't think where else I saw him.
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:28.025
Dude, what did you think of that Cirque Series?
01:01:28.025 --> 01:01:30.929
A Basin race Like that was a huge collection of talent.
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:33.164
Yeah, no, it's a good race man.
01:01:33.164 --> 01:01:35.431
That's the one.
01:01:35.431 --> 01:01:40.809
Yeah, that was the one, that goes like 13,000 feet, something like that.
01:01:40.809 --> 01:01:41.349
It was up there.
01:01:41.449 --> 01:01:43.697
It was a couple of weeks or a week before pikes or something like that.
01:01:43.737 --> 01:01:44.822
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:44.822 --> 01:01:46.206
No, that was I mean.
01:01:46.206 --> 01:01:47.630
They always get Colorado.
01:01:47.630 --> 01:01:51.028
If you have prize money in Colorado, you're going to have a good field.
01:01:51.168 --> 01:01:51.951
Dude show up yeah.
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:57.443
This is the worst state If you were looking for easy money you're going to earn it.
01:01:57.443 --> 01:01:58.744
This isn't the state to be in.
01:01:58.744 --> 01:02:09.773
I was in Washington earlier in my career and it was like I could come into a race, tired or not, on my A game and I could maybe get a squeak out, a win.
01:02:09.773 --> 01:02:11.594
But I was like you can't do that in Colorado.
01:02:11.594 --> 01:02:15.856
If there's substantial prize money, you're going to get clapped if you come in and you're not ready.
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:25.836
Not to turn your head away from pikes, but don't know if you know this, but uh, julian's putting out another cirque race next year, that is in washington it's at crystal.
01:02:25.836 --> 01:02:40.271
No, I heard that yeah same weekend as pikes, though, so I'm like god damn it, um well I bet it'll still get numbers only because, uh, worlds is the week after, is it really?
01:02:40.271 --> 01:02:41.112
Really, oh yeah.
01:02:41.112 --> 01:02:46.530
So if so, if you're going to worlds or you're probably not racing bikes that next year man, it all depends.
01:02:46.530 --> 01:02:47.300
You know, like.
01:02:47.340 --> 01:02:48.123
It depends on how.
01:02:48.123 --> 01:02:56.485
I don't know Everybody's different Like after the trail running camp that I do for the kids, like I have to take all that into account what the fitness is looking like, how the preparation looks.
01:02:56.485 --> 01:02:58.063
Um, you got to make the team.
01:02:58.063 --> 01:02:58.784
You know all that.
01:02:58.864 --> 01:02:59.425
Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:02:59.465 --> 01:03:02.271
I mean, if I didn't make the team, then I have a bunch of yeah, you got time.
01:03:02.972 --> 01:03:04.262
Sorry, I'm counting your chickens already.
01:03:04.262 --> 01:03:06.389
Um, okay, dude, really quick.
01:03:06.389 --> 01:03:10.068
Uh, one of the things I do want to talk about is your, the, the kids camp.
01:03:10.068 --> 01:03:16.362
Okay, um yeah, can you, can you dive into that?
01:03:16.362 --> 01:03:20.664
Talk about, uh, we went away, I got sick and we got married in July.
01:03:20.664 --> 01:03:22.806
It was rough July, dude.
01:03:22.827 --> 01:03:29.971
July is a busy, especially for runners elite runners it's a busy month, I get it.
01:03:30.630 --> 01:03:35.514
We had that wedding and I literally got back the day after the wedding and someone I don't know.
01:03:35.514 --> 01:03:37.695
It's like every time I go to Silverton I get COVID.
01:03:37.695 --> 01:03:40.617
I don't know why I was sick this year.
01:03:40.617 --> 01:03:48.704
It was bad, but anyway, let's talk about the camp, because I want to uh, anybody listen to this that has young ones they're thinking about it, um, or wants to donate and things like that.
01:03:48.704 --> 01:03:49.666
I want to get this out.
01:03:49.847 --> 01:04:01.483
so yeah, um, I, you know, I kind of came up with the idea with, uh, with dreamer, and I think you know dreamer and um, we got um the stephanowicz family, brandon, melissa and there.
01:04:01.844 --> 01:04:18.753
So we had four coaches and you know we got together and wanted to bring something to the community, introducing kids to trails, mountains, and yeah, man, it's been awesome just to see kids who have had no experience on the trail come out and they absorb the knowledge.
01:04:18.753 --> 01:04:20.862
They're listening, you know, they pay attention.
01:04:20.862 --> 01:04:29.224
We've been very lucky and blessed to have kids who they're eager to learn Our community.
01:04:29.224 --> 01:04:30.467
I think something like this.
01:04:30.467 --> 01:04:38.519
You could see a huge explosion of greatness coming from the spring specifically, or I guess it depends on where the kids end up moving.
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:54.530
You know they're young, their families might move, but the mindset that we've seen these last few years with these kids, you know they listen, they're good, you know they get pretty good at it just within one day, you know, and it's just awesome to take part in it.
01:04:54.639 --> 01:05:04.362
And then, on the other end of that, I started Project Inspire Diversity just because I wanted to introduce this to other young black athletes, and so I'm.
01:05:04.362 --> 01:05:25.007
You know people donate to the nonprofit that I have set up for and you know we use that for scholarships for a couple of young athletes and we bring them in and expose them as well to to trail running, and you know a lot of these kids have never really been on trails or mountain stuff before to trail running, and you know a lot of these kids have never really been on trails or mountain stuff before and uh, it's really dope man to see them.
01:05:25.007 --> 01:05:30.994
I feel like I'm looking into a, like a mirror, like what it was like the first time I did trail running.
01:05:31.054 --> 01:05:34.907
It's like they're having fun they're like man, this is cool, this is fine it's the greatest sport on earth.
01:05:34.907 --> 01:05:37.922
Man, they love it um, yeah, man, I love it.
01:05:37.922 --> 01:05:49.195
I love seeing those moments when they're learning something new and it's like a light went off in their head and you know, I want to be able to provide that gift to more and more in our community over the years.
01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:51.442
And then the last day there's a.
01:05:51.442 --> 01:05:52.884
You guys have a race, right yeah?
01:05:52.903 --> 01:05:54.286
yeah, it was a legit race.
01:05:54.286 --> 01:05:57.349
I don't you know.
01:05:57.349 --> 01:05:59.833
I think I want to say Brandon designed the course this year.
01:05:59.833 --> 01:06:02.416
My course last year was it was tough.
01:06:02.416 --> 01:06:05.088
It was definitely a tough course, but Brandon put together oh.
01:06:05.367 --> 01:06:11.371
I'm sure he did, of course, and I was worried because I was like man are these kids going to be able to handle this?
01:06:11.460 --> 01:06:18.373
This is just some technical stuff in here, and they're, you know, they're climbing and descending pretty substantial amount for their age especially.
01:06:18.373 --> 01:06:20.646
And man, they, they, they did awesome.
01:06:20.646 --> 01:06:21.869
We had a couple kids go down.
01:06:21.869 --> 01:06:24.083
They got popped back up bloody and everything.
01:06:24.083 --> 01:06:25.085
You know.
01:06:25.126 --> 01:06:49.467
These kids were tough man and, um, it was cool to watch the race, you know, and I was like on course, trying to see what's going on oh yeah paying attention, like you know, like I'm at a race, you know at a, at one of our bigger races, and just watching so much fun, so being a spectator and, uh, seeing the kids, that competitive side, come out and and they were having fun competing and, you know, cheering each other on asking how each other did on their teams and it was cool man.
01:06:49.889 --> 01:06:51.936
That is so cool and I'll link uh.
01:06:51.936 --> 01:06:52.922
I'm gonna put it in the show notes.
01:06:52.922 --> 01:06:55.972
So, if folks want to, um to the website as well.
01:06:55.972 --> 01:06:57.820
As uh project inspired diversity.
01:06:57.820 --> 01:07:01.525
If people want to donate or get involved, definitely so that, so that way we can get this.
01:07:01.606 --> 01:07:04.431
I mean that I have a link that people go to and donate to.
01:07:04.431 --> 01:07:06.172
Okay, cool, cool, yeah We'll put that in there.
01:07:06.934 --> 01:07:08.927
All right, dude, we're getting a right about an hour now.
01:07:08.927 --> 01:07:10.286
I don't want to take your whole day.
01:07:10.286 --> 01:07:12.706
I've had the audience.
01:07:12.706 --> 01:07:14.927
I put out a whole thing for audience questions yesterday.
01:07:14.927 --> 01:07:24.246
One is is because ultimate direction is sponsored in this episode.
01:07:24.246 --> 01:07:26.416
Um, our, our common sponsor, um, one of the things they wanted to know is what's joe's favorite piece of gear?
01:07:26.438 --> 01:07:27.300
oh man, they should know that.
01:07:27.300 --> 01:07:37.074
Oh no, you, oh ud asked, or someone this is just from oh someone, okay, um, yeah, the the ultra jacket, ultra pants you like the ultra track and I love it.
01:07:37.094 --> 01:07:38.480
Man, what do you think of the tarmac fest?
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:39.262
I just got one.
01:07:39.583 --> 01:07:42.751
I you know I'm I mean I.
01:07:42.751 --> 01:07:48.597
I probably sound like a hypocrite with what I was going to say because I have one on, but like I don't wear vests a ton.
01:07:48.637 --> 01:07:48.998
Neither do I.
01:07:48.998 --> 01:07:50.681
I feel like Colorado.
01:07:51.182 --> 01:07:59.342
Our weather is usually cold enough that a vest maybe won't do it, and or it's super nice and you don't need it.
01:07:59.342 --> 01:08:02.326
Yeah, Colorado is kind of weird when we are in Colorado.
01:08:02.447 --> 01:08:02.766
It's true.
01:08:03.126 --> 01:08:03.648
Granted.
01:08:03.648 --> 01:08:09.333
The vest probably would come in handy in some other parts, but I'll wear them just hanging out sometimes.
01:08:10.476 --> 01:08:11.217
Are you a belt guy?
01:08:11.217 --> 01:08:13.664
Do you use any of the belts?
01:08:13.664 --> 01:08:22.967
I've only ever seen you in races We've never raced each other but I've only ever seen like, use, like your, the belt and your shorts or whatever.
01:08:22.967 --> 01:08:24.090
You're using the whole stuff.
01:08:24.210 --> 01:08:29.135
I uh, I, I like the, I don't, I don't like it having it on my stomach, like in that area as much.
01:08:29.135 --> 01:08:32.694
But if I'm just doing something easy, I don't mind it yeah it's not too bad they're.
01:08:32.694 --> 01:08:33.779
They're actually really comfortable.
01:08:33.779 --> 01:08:39.168
Compared to when I first came in the sport, any belts were like a no-go for me.
01:08:39.208 --> 01:08:59.265
But yeah, ud has definitely made it possible to wear a belt for someone like me who I feel like I don't like things being in my gut area yeah, you know, dude, they don't bother me even more so with, like any of the vests, like I just uh, like I mean there are new stuff coming out, like there is a, a new sport and a new ultra vest coming out in early 2025 which it is too yeah dude and yeah.
01:08:59.345 --> 01:09:07.304
So like I used to not like him because it was like, just like I don't know, I don't like anything on my chest, but like I've got, I've just like worn all we all have our yeah things.
01:09:07.304 --> 01:09:12.082
I like the exodus, I love that one see, the access didn't like as much as the the new stuff.
01:09:12.082 --> 01:09:14.310
Like then I felt like I just stopped there a couple weeks ago.
01:09:14.310 --> 01:09:20.109
Uh, shout out to brett and and emmy, but like they were um you were in I was just up there.
01:09:20.149 --> 01:09:22.213
Yeah, I was modeling oh the one in colorado.
01:09:22.213 --> 01:09:27.015
Yeah, and I got to model the uh the new ultra and the new sport.
01:09:27.015 --> 01:09:29.302
I think it's the sport that they're coming out with they're.
01:09:29.302 --> 01:09:34.846
I don't think they've turned the page on like competing with like solomon and like other people like that.
01:09:34.846 --> 01:09:40.706
Um, they've definitely turned a page, with some of the new stuff coming out, which is exciting yeah, I love the exodus man.
01:09:40.827 --> 01:09:53.069
I use that yeah, I was using it today, so don't worry um dude one thing this is not an audience question but like, just like reflecting on like colorado springs and like the place that we live, like I feel like it's so slept on.
01:09:53.069 --> 01:09:57.845
Man, I know everybody wants to talk about how like boulder is like the greatest thing on earth and boulder is great, don't get me wrong.
01:09:57.845 --> 01:10:03.134
But like I just think for like a metropolitan area that like you can get trail like such good trail access here.
01:10:03.514 --> 01:10:04.682
Yeah, no, I think there's.
01:10:04.682 --> 01:10:11.225
For me, boulder's cool, but I don't know, I just don't like it as much.
01:10:11.225 --> 01:10:29.596
Yeah, it doesn't feel like if you want to be a trail runner, I feel like you need to live in a specific place there, otherwise you're doing a lot of driving, whereas, like in the Springs, you can live in a plethora of areas off of the main mountain and there's some good trails.
01:10:29.596 --> 01:10:30.801
I mean technical.
01:10:30.801 --> 01:10:32.729
You can get on technical stuff in the city.
01:10:32.729 --> 01:10:34.344
Yeah, you know it's….
01:10:34.625 --> 01:10:39.958
Palmer, yeah, yeah, you have access to some open spaces that are pretty legit, like I mean I used to live close.
01:10:39.958 --> 01:10:41.920
Access to some open spaces that are pretty legit, like I mean I used to live close to.
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:48.188
I almost never went to Bar Trail for some of the time when I was getting ready for pikes, because I didn't need to.
01:10:48.188 --> 01:10:51.511
I was like you know I got some pretty good climbs like right here and you know.
01:10:52.054 --> 01:10:59.844
So yeah, no, I mean, I love our accessibility across the whole town and you know there's a lot more job opportunity.
01:10:59.844 --> 01:11:06.520
You know, if'm not a professional runner, I don't know what else I'm going to do in boulder besides work for the university or something like that.
01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.650
Um, but you know, down here we have everything we got shoot.
01:11:10.650 --> 01:11:12.342
You can work with anti-doping even here.
01:11:12.342 --> 01:11:16.942
Yeah, I mean so which is, you know, definitely something I'm interested in yeah, that's cool.
01:11:17.042 --> 01:11:19.768
Now I do, and the thing is like you can get I don't like.
01:11:19.768 --> 01:11:21.671
I just love the incline and all these things.
01:11:21.671 --> 01:11:25.319
Like you can get two 3000 foot climbs like no problem here, which is dope.
01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:27.104
And then get the flat stuff too.
01:11:27.104 --> 01:11:28.831
So, yeah, it's, it's amazing.
01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:29.881
It's a very elite city.
01:11:29.881 --> 01:11:32.690
I mean there's a lot of I don't.
01:11:32.690 --> 01:11:48.002
I'm trying to think well, now, I guess now they got that on group out there, that changes things, but I would say we were definitely way more elite in terms of, like, competition wise oh yeah um, but they got that group out there, those guys I didn't know they put an on team out there.
01:11:48.042 --> 01:11:55.782
I know there was like tin man out there running in a bunch of yeah, when it was just them yeah the springs definitely would have, would have crushed, yeah, with that group.
01:11:55.962 --> 01:11:57.083
You know they got a medalist.
01:11:57.083 --> 01:12:01.931
Now I think they got a couple, maybe shit, they got some.
01:12:01.952 --> 01:12:10.442
They got some boys dude, when, like, you've accomplished so much, like, is there anything like else you want to do, like that you have on your mind.
01:12:10.481 --> 01:12:24.545
As far as like places, you want to go see things you want to do, races you want to do like, um, yeah, I mean I would like to see some you know race in some countries that maybe I haven't raced in yet, like there's some countries I haven't been to that I would like to see some you know race in some countries that maybe I haven't raced in yet, like there's some countries I haven't been to.
01:12:24.545 --> 01:12:27.872
That would be intriguing to see what it would be like to race there.
01:12:28.172 --> 01:12:30.666
Yeah, you know and it's definitely like in Asia.
01:12:30.666 --> 01:12:32.890
More so Asia and Africa.
01:12:33.252 --> 01:12:33.372
Yeah.
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:36.908
Those are two places that I think I would are on the kind of bucket list.
01:12:36.908 --> 01:12:38.252
Would like to get out there and see.
01:12:38.591 --> 01:12:38.773
Yeah.
01:12:49.979 --> 01:12:52.408
Well, asia, you're a big foodie, so I feel like for that as hard to compete with asia when it comes to food.
01:12:52.408 --> 01:12:54.215
Oh hell, yeah, dude, they got too many, too many good spots, too many different genres of food.
01:12:54.215 --> 01:12:57.262
I mean korean szechuan, you got all the good stuff down there are you spying?
01:12:57.422 --> 01:13:00.989
you're a spicy guy too, right, like, oh, like, oh yeah, oh man, that's good stuff.
01:13:00.989 --> 01:13:03.613
All right, let me get into some of these audience questions.
01:13:03.613 --> 01:13:11.233
Kevin asks what is your training advice for athletes that want to?
01:13:11.252 --> 01:13:12.099
achieve their uphill running potential.
01:13:12.099 --> 01:13:22.009
Kind of going back to what I was saying earlier, I think you know getting better at that aerobic stuff, right, you have to get used to doing some progressive tempos.
01:13:22.009 --> 01:13:32.663
Um, I don't necessarily think that you should jump into a bunch of just like short speed stuff or only thresholds, I think you know, progressions are really important because a lot of mountain races do feel very progressive.
01:13:32.863 --> 01:13:33.024
Yeah.
01:13:33.265 --> 01:13:34.548
You know they get progressively harder.
01:13:34.548 --> 01:13:35.652
You're going up altitude.
01:13:35.652 --> 01:13:37.462
Maybe it's getting steeper near the end.
01:13:37.462 --> 01:13:40.605
So I think those are a good place to start.
01:13:40.605 --> 01:13:42.148
For sure, super near the end.
01:13:42.167 --> 01:13:43.409
So I think those are a good place to start.
01:13:43.409 --> 01:13:47.255
For sure, I like that Sean asks what is your staple uphill workout.
01:13:47.255 --> 01:13:51.261
Everything's about like performance.
01:13:52.761 --> 01:13:54.563
Shoot, I got a bunch man.
01:13:54.563 --> 01:13:57.104
That's a tough one to answer, but I do.
01:13:57.104 --> 01:13:57.386
I like.
01:13:57.386 --> 01:13:58.445
I like progressive stuff.
01:13:58.445 --> 01:14:01.408
You know I've worked out with John a few times.
01:14:01.408 --> 01:14:10.274
I like to do some progressive uphill stuff where we're cutting down in pace and you know you feel like you're racing by the end.
01:14:10.274 --> 01:14:10.815
You know what I mean.
01:14:11.296 --> 01:14:13.278
Dude, do you ever do workouts on the incline?
01:14:14.460 --> 01:14:30.527
This is just out of my curiosity, not often, um not often, uh, I've done a couple um like tempos with john up it.
01:14:30.527 --> 01:14:35.202
Um, if we're getting ready for something like that, yeah, I mean I probably should have been doing it like if had I not had to take the break after pikes.
01:14:35.202 --> 01:14:44.310
Uh, that would have been a good place to train for the team usa event, because the that event over there was like stairs the entire way oh my god, it's terrible.
01:14:44.329 --> 01:14:47.154
Um, all right.
01:14:47.154 --> 01:14:55.725
So rob asks any tips for runners in the northeast that want to prepare for races at altitude um, um.
01:14:59.900 --> 01:15:06.622
I think the biggest thing is that kind of don't show up too early, like that's at least what I've found Like just show up like the day before.
01:15:06.823 --> 01:15:06.943
Yeah.
01:15:07.114 --> 01:15:10.506
Don't spend too much time altitude when you're going to coming from sea level.
01:15:10.506 --> 01:15:13.368
I think that's the biggest mistake you made.
01:15:13.368 --> 01:15:14.456
I think you make.
01:15:14.456 --> 01:15:16.016
I came from um.
01:15:16.016 --> 01:15:20.680
I think I was in the Northeast actually before the first time.
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:27.244
I did Kendall and uh, you know, I should have just come in the day before.
01:15:27.244 --> 01:15:30.568
I came in, like two or three days, man.
01:15:30.568 --> 01:15:32.849
Then the altitude starts kicking my butt.
01:15:32.849 --> 01:15:35.190
I'm like, oh man, this is not going to be fine.
01:15:35.530 --> 01:15:39.418
And you got to go fast, like that's a road the whole way up.
01:15:39.418 --> 01:15:40.181
So you gotta have done other altitude.
01:15:40.202 --> 01:15:44.621
I've done other altitude races where I just kind of just showed up like right before and it wasn't that bad.
01:15:44.621 --> 01:15:50.484
I'm now, after you feel extremely dehydrated, your body's like this completely new stimulus.
01:15:50.484 --> 01:15:54.242
But yeah, I think showing up closer to the event is maybe smarter.
01:15:54.502 --> 01:15:56.506
Yeah, yeah, I like that one.
01:15:56.506 --> 01:15:59.703
Brittany asks what are you the most proud of in your career?
01:16:04.555 --> 01:16:06.078
Just asks what are you the most proud of in your career?
01:16:06.078 --> 01:16:08.082
Um, just the, the accumulation of accolades, the longevity of being able to.
01:16:08.082 --> 01:16:18.349
You know, I'd always tell people, I think, that one of the most difficult things is when I look at like the greats and pretty much any sport.
01:16:18.349 --> 01:16:19.560
They've had to compete when they were down.
01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:21.305
They've had to compete when they were down.
01:16:21.305 --> 01:16:25.840
They've had to compete when they were injured, they had to compete when maybe they weren't as fit.
01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:33.184
Um, finding a way to compete and still win, I think, is something that I'm most proud of, like being able to.
01:16:33.184 --> 01:16:47.537
You know, there's a number of championships that, uh, that I think that I won and where I was like, coming into that race, I don't think I was going to win it, or I wasn't favored to win it, or I knew I probably wasn't ready to win it, and when the gun went off I just kind of found a way.
01:16:47.537 --> 01:16:50.065
So those ones were the most special.
01:16:51.534 --> 01:16:51.895
Love that.
01:16:51.895 --> 01:16:56.204
And then my wife asks what is your favorite race?
01:16:56.204 --> 01:16:59.560
Post-race hard effort slash, hard effort meal.
01:16:59.560 --> 01:17:10.507
Hard effort, slash hard effort meal right now nokia quattro famaggi oh, italian, all right.
01:17:11.288 --> 01:17:14.256
Oh, dude, I'm big fan yeah, I mean I've made that a few times.
01:17:14.256 --> 01:17:17.265
Well, we don't use online, we don't use the four cheese, we just use.
01:17:17.265 --> 01:17:17.966
We do three.
01:17:17.966 --> 01:17:36.315
But I like to, I'll change it up like I'll use three different cheeses all the time, like just random different cheeses, because I mean you can't really go wrong with gnocchi, like yeah it's so good, you can put american cheese on gnocchi and it would be good yeah that's true are you a pizza guy?
01:17:36.756 --> 01:17:38.921
yeah, same man we make pizza at the house.
01:17:38.921 --> 01:17:42.809
My wife, wife makes, she makes her own pizza, so yeah, it's good.
01:17:42.895 --> 01:17:48.887
Rose just got into, like last year, started making um, like, started doing sourdough stuff.
01:17:48.887 --> 01:17:55.384
So now we do, we do pizza, we do I got a fresh bread down there Bagels, all the carbs, dude, all the carbs.
01:17:55.384 --> 01:17:57.877
All right.
01:17:57.877 --> 01:18:00.481
Last question from the audience.
01:18:00.481 --> 01:18:05.854
Melissa asks uh, uh, thinking back on your career, is there one thing you wish you would have done differently?
01:18:14.131 --> 01:18:25.041
it's a tough one, because I uh when, when I had an answer like three seconds after you said that, but it was like more of a facetious answer, but I was like I would have.
01:18:25.041 --> 01:18:29.881
I would have went a different way with some brands, not signed with some or signed with others.
01:18:29.881 --> 01:18:32.515
But uh, I mean, that's probably not what she wants to hear.
01:18:32.515 --> 01:18:33.577
That's the business side.
01:18:33.577 --> 01:18:38.764
But um man, that's a tough one, man.
01:18:38.764 --> 01:18:40.726
I really don't know what I would have done different.
01:18:49.914 --> 01:18:54.564
I feel like a lot of the things that I did do are things that I would tell my son or my daughter to do.
01:18:54.625 --> 01:18:57.390
to be honest, I mean there's not much I would change.
01:18:57.390 --> 01:18:59.875
I mean you're the GOAT, so you did it right.
01:18:59.875 --> 01:19:06.640
There's definitely been races where maybe I didn't have the right gear for the day.
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:10.332
You know, and if I knew in hindsight now and I could go back in that time, I'd switch that out.
01:19:10.332 --> 01:19:14.342
You know what I mean but, um, that's not how time works, not yet.
01:19:14.342 --> 01:19:19.443
So all right, dude, maybe john will figure it out sometime yeah, right, find a black hole.
01:19:19.462 --> 01:19:22.854
We can go back what are the uh dude?
01:19:22.854 --> 01:19:24.720
One of the questions I had for you was it wasn't last.
01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:25.402
Was it last year?
01:19:25.402 --> 01:19:26.063
What was the right.
01:19:26.063 --> 01:19:28.878
When was the year you broke your wrist and you did pikes?
01:19:28.878 --> 01:19:31.244
Was that last year, I think.
01:19:31.244 --> 01:19:42.247
So that's like the jordan sick year, dude, like man that shit you must have been excruciating, because I remember I don't know if you were telling me or if it was on a post like you dropped your glasses and you had to have someone help pick them up for you.
01:19:42.635 --> 01:19:49.319
My hands were frozen Cause, you know, like the glove, like I had this thing on it, it wasn't working well, cause your hands are open.
01:19:49.539 --> 01:19:49.761
Yeah.
01:19:50.101 --> 01:19:54.420
And, yeah, this dude helped me put it on and I was like man, I'm glad he was here.
01:19:54.420 --> 01:19:57.338
That's crazy.
01:19:57.338 --> 01:19:59.400
It was, you know, my doctor.
01:19:59.400 --> 01:20:08.081
They told me not to do it and I probably shouldn't have, because my other bone was still like it hadn't congealed yet it was clicking.
01:20:08.362 --> 01:20:08.603
Yeah.
01:20:08.795 --> 01:20:20.649
So like you can't run hard, like I had to keep a very smooth pace, otherwise, like if I made any kind of sudden, like hard moves, it was like oh, that's weird.
01:20:20.835 --> 01:20:27.979
It was just like shooting up man, like you could feel it right on your heart, Like it was hurting man, uh, but yeah, I learned a lesson I.
01:20:27.979 --> 01:20:30.859
You know that's maybe something, those things you learn.
01:20:30.859 --> 01:20:32.304
You know you learn after doing it.
01:20:32.304 --> 01:20:39.524
Like now, if I had an athlete I'm coaching and they're like you know, I still want to run this race, but like listen, don't do it.
01:20:39.524 --> 01:20:39.885
Yeah.
01:20:42.775 --> 01:20:43.538
Wasting your time.
01:20:43.538 --> 01:20:45.146
Did you have like a hard cast on or were you just doing soft cast?
01:20:45.167 --> 01:20:46.252
and you took the soft cast off, or did they?
01:20:46.252 --> 01:20:46.514
No, they, so I.
01:20:46.514 --> 01:20:49.141
I told them I didn't want the hard yet okay and they're like okay.
01:20:49.141 --> 01:20:51.155
And then I was like well, I don't want this.
01:20:51.155 --> 01:21:03.336
It was like a 3d thing and I was like can we just cut it off and put it back on after the race yeah, and they were like uh it's like I don't need my hands, whatever they're like well, you don't want to fall down again on it, do you?
01:21:03.376 --> 01:21:04.057
write with your left hand.
01:21:04.057 --> 01:21:05.240
Are you lefty or are you right-handed?
01:21:05.240 --> 01:21:07.216
I'm right, okay, so it doesn't, doesn't really.
01:21:07.216 --> 01:21:08.862
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
01:21:08.862 --> 01:21:10.528
Um, yeah, it's a.
01:21:10.528 --> 01:21:11.230
That's wild dude.
01:21:11.230 --> 01:21:13.778
Yeah, it's a good thing you didn't fall, or did you fall?
01:21:14.238 --> 01:21:15.601
I did, but it was um.
01:21:15.601 --> 01:21:21.301
It was on such a steep section that my hand it didn't really hurt that much yeah, not really.
01:21:21.442 --> 01:21:22.324
All adrenaline's gone too.
01:21:22.345 --> 01:21:22.947
You're like yeah, it was.
01:21:22.947 --> 01:21:24.992
It was near, like the golden stairs.
01:21:24.992 --> 01:21:34.484
It's like it's such a steep section that, yeah, you're not hitting it hard per se, and it was you know, at that point I was kind of slipping a little bit on the the snow.
01:21:34.704 --> 01:21:38.234
I had like a bald kind of shoe like my shoes.
01:21:38.234 --> 01:21:40.137
It was like almost a cross-country shoe, I think.
01:21:40.137 --> 01:21:55.944
I just wanted to see how it would do, yeah, and not the best shoe for that type of stuff, and so I was trying to be very careful in that section when we were on like snow or anything like that yeah so I couldn't even take advantage of the snow that year speaking of shoes, I know you're like a evo jaws guy.
01:21:55.984 --> 01:21:57.175
I've seen you wear those a bunch.
01:21:57.175 --> 01:21:57.896
Is that like?
01:21:57.896 --> 01:21:59.939
Is that like your go-to, or is that?
01:22:00.501 --> 01:22:01.922
uh, man, I love that shoe man.
01:22:01.922 --> 01:22:03.204
Uh, it was kind of.
01:22:03.204 --> 01:22:05.869
You know, it was the first shoe.
01:22:05.869 --> 01:22:12.328
I won a lot of major races with my first year with Hoka and it was I just kind of fell in love with it right away.
01:22:12.328 --> 01:22:20.869
And you know, I think when you get older in the sport you kind of get stuck in your ways and you like a certain feel, and so it's a shoe that I've always liked.
01:22:20.869 --> 01:22:23.819
But you know, we've been working on some, some other stuff.
01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:24.742
Oh yeah, I heard some.
01:22:24.742 --> 01:22:25.904
There's some stuff coming down the pike.
01:22:25.904 --> 01:22:27.858
That sounds pretty pretty exciting.
01:22:27.858 --> 01:22:30.403
So yeah, oh, dude, I love to hear it.
01:22:30.403 --> 01:22:35.037
All right, One last question, and then I'll I'll give you a day back.
01:22:35.037 --> 01:22:38.560
Um dude, what's your walkout song?
01:22:40.082 --> 01:22:41.103
Man, it changes man.
01:22:41.103 --> 01:22:43.824
Uh, you know, I'm a very I'm a big believer.
01:22:43.824 --> 01:22:45.747
I don't like routine at all.
01:22:45.747 --> 01:22:59.466
Really, sometimes I'll listen to Earth, wind, fire before some big races, might listen to some Jodeci, might be listening to some Drake.
01:22:59.487 --> 01:23:01.211
You know who else man, I like DMX sometimes.
01:23:01.854 --> 01:23:20.050
Like I guess DMX it depends on the mood, but like, yeah, there's some moments where it's like I think, definitely, I think DMX is more like when there's a lot of negative energy coming at you, maybe, like I felt like a lot of people were had a lot of commentary that I didn't like, but I love it really because it fuels me.
01:23:20.050 --> 01:23:29.463
But, and those are the moments like when you know there was a couple races like this, where it's like, oh, that's a dmx moment, like I need you to be here with me and uh.
01:23:29.463 --> 01:23:34.179
And then there's moments where you know it's more of a calmer approach and some love.
01:23:34.219 --> 01:23:39.036
music is always, always good, so I like that do you listen to music at all when you trade?
01:23:40.479 --> 01:23:42.122
uh, no, not not so much.
01:23:42.122 --> 01:23:47.702
Um, definitely, I mean, it was a lesson that I learned moving here, like in washington.
01:23:47.702 --> 01:23:55.920
I did yeah but there's a lot more wildlife here and I think I was just like nervous about that, being a city boy and you know, and people are like, yeah, you shouldn't listen to music.
01:23:55.920 --> 01:24:08.161
Something could just run up on you and I'm like run up on what you mean you wouldn't even hear was like oh, so I'm not listening to music anymore out here, so I just kind of gave it up out here.
01:24:08.314 --> 01:24:13.667
But definitely we listen to music all the time, me and my wife and my kids and stuff that's cool.
01:24:13.667 --> 01:24:18.125
Big music family, my dad, my mom growing up with a lot of music.
01:24:19.346 --> 01:24:19.648
Love it.
01:24:19.648 --> 01:24:21.699
Well, dude, thanks so much for coming on.
01:24:21.699 --> 01:24:23.385
Honestly, honor and a privilege.
01:24:23.385 --> 01:24:28.677
Yeah, this was an amazing episode and you're always uh, can't wait to have you back on again.
01:24:28.677 --> 01:24:31.002
Thanks, man.
01:24:31.342 --> 01:24:31.682
Thank you.
01:24:33.847 --> 01:24:36.378
What'd you guys think I told you that was a special one.
01:24:36.378 --> 01:24:38.586
Um, I have to be honest with you, it was.
01:24:38.586 --> 01:24:48.457
It was so special for me and probably the greatest honor I've had as a podcast host to be able to sit down with the goat and shoot the shit and just talk running it was.
01:24:48.457 --> 01:24:55.802
It was a lot of fun and something I'll definitely look back on and treasure as as this podcast continues to grow.
01:24:55.802 --> 01:24:59.036
So, guys, before you get going, do me a solid hop on Instagram.
01:24:59.036 --> 01:25:02.039
If you don't already follow Joe, give, give him a follow.
01:25:02.039 --> 01:25:04.443
His Instagram handle is Joe G Z.
01:25:04.443 --> 01:25:07.225
J O E G E E Z.
01:25:07.225 --> 01:25:07.587
I.
01:25:07.587 --> 01:25:09.488
Um, it's not just running.
01:25:09.488 --> 01:25:11.176
Joe enjoys a lot of things.
01:25:11.176 --> 01:25:12.520
He really loves cooking.
01:25:12.520 --> 01:25:14.909
Um, he's got a lot of just just a hobby.
01:25:14.909 --> 01:25:15.471
He's hobbies.
01:25:15.471 --> 01:25:18.238
So tons of hobbies, uh, and really fun stuff.
01:25:18.238 --> 01:25:19.661
He's a great follow, um.
01:25:19.661 --> 01:25:25.216
One more thing hop on to Instagram and also give COS.
01:25:25.216 --> 01:25:29.306
Uh, trck, that's the trail running camp for kids.
01:25:29.306 --> 01:25:31.551
Uh, the Joe dream of Walton.
01:25:31.551 --> 01:25:35.261
Um, and Brandon and Melissa Stepanowich put on every year.
01:25:35.261 --> 01:25:37.064
That's going to be in Colorado Springs.
01:25:37.064 --> 01:25:40.319
Um, so if you guys are interested, it's going to be linked in the show notes.
01:25:40.319 --> 01:25:59.203
Um, if you've got young ones or if you have, maybe, a young family member or a brother and sister, um, someone young that would fit that criteria and you're interested in getting them involved in the sport of trail running, definitely check out this kid's camp that's put on every July, um, and hosted by the greatest of all time um, along with a slew of other amazing community members.
01:25:59.203 --> 01:26:03.346
So, um, definitely really fun and, like I said, the signup for that is going to be linked to the show notes.
01:26:04.029 --> 01:26:05.994
Um, guys, hope you enjoyed this episode.
01:26:05.994 --> 01:26:07.539
Like I said, this one meant everything to me.
01:26:07.539 --> 01:26:09.534
It was really special to be able to bring this to you.
01:26:09.534 --> 01:26:17.559
If you did enjoy this episode, um, do me a solid share this on Instagram, put it in your story, um, you know, let the share to the world.
01:26:17.559 --> 01:26:22.045
That's how we can continue to cover the sport of sub ultra and have great conversations like this.
01:26:22.045 --> 01:26:22.626
Um.
01:26:22.626 --> 01:26:25.569
Also, if you did enjoy it, um, it means the world to me.
01:26:25.569 --> 01:26:37.916
If you could give this a five-star rating and review, uh, that's how we can continue to share this as well on Apple and Spotify, and this episode in particular, along with many others in the future, is going to be available with full video format on YouTube.
01:26:37.916 --> 01:26:39.916
So, guys, hope you enjoyed this one.
01:26:39.916 --> 01:26:40.815
Have a great rest of your week.
01:26:40.815 --> 01:26:41.475
Thanks so much.
01:26:41.475 --> 01:26:56.859
Take care, thank you.