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Book around, We'll hear you slas and filing down.
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We're here to set all right, let's go ahead. I
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have much more to say about these other two books,
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and I think a lot of it has to do
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with the unique subject matter and the way that the
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stories are told. Let's start with The Crow, all right,
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so as they did as a matter of fact, and
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a kick ass soundtrack as well. Let me just ask
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you first, when you were a young lad collecting comic books,
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did you hear of The Crow before the movie?
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I found out it was a comic book after I
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want to say, actually I knew of the soundtrack before
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I knew of the movie.
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Oh really, one of those it had Pantera on it, Yes,
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it did.
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I think my connection to The Crow is through Pantara.
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But all of those bands, of which we talked about
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on a Mentlheimmer review, if I remember correctly, it had
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Pantera on it. It had nine inch nails, nails, had a machine.
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It had a lot of bands, The Rollins Band.
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Yeah, Rollins Band doing ghost Rider.
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Jesrad Yeah, Zach Gear like he's gonna ship his fucking bands,
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fair pants getting that song out. But it was worth
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my life for that killed on, That's what I was
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thinking of. So here's the entire and like this is like,
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this is like wow. The nineties, it was the Cure
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Machines of Loving Grace on top of Pilots nine in
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nails doing a Joy Division cover Raging against the Machine,
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the violin femmes of the Rollins band. That grostrated song
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is actually a cover of a band of a song
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from the band's suicide Helmet, Pantera covering Poison idea. I
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told you back then, my friend Curly where at the
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end of the badge, It's like, what's behind the badge?
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But because it's fill on Sam and he kind of
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warbles it, it sounds like what big eyes you have,
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So for the longest time, knowing full well what he's
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really saying, the end of that song is always what
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big eyes you are nothing to do with but perfect
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anyway for love not Lisa, my life at the Thrill
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killed caled That Jesus and Mary Chane Medicine and Jane Sibery.
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I was a huge Pantera fan. I got the Crow soundtrack.
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All my friends are goth I'm kind of Gotha jacent.
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We should watch this movie. It's amazing and then I
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promptly forgot about it.
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I'm sure you've heard about Brandon Lee.
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That was the other thing. It was the mythology tied
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to the movie about his untimely and strange death and
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being somewhat similar to the way his dad died. That
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made the news. But even then my friends were making
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a huge deal out of it. I was like, Oh,
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it sucks to be him. That stuff doesn't necessarily affect
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me the way that it should. We so we did
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the long Road to Ruin on the Crow way back
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when the origine and all, and then the second the
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second movie. It was one episode in the three and four.
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With the second episode. We talked a lot about this
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last year when the Crow remake came out from Lionsgate
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formerly a studio, and I talked about how Like the
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Crow is just, you know, a really perfect movie, and
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it's not so easily recreated. There's definitely a product of
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his time. And I will tell you, after having read
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the book, I now understand why if anyone read this
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book in that era and you were even tangentially part
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of the goth culture, this was like your fable. This
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was mythology esthetically spoke to kids living in that time,
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probably the way nothing else did besides the music of
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the era. It's so as Martin Burton movies.
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So I think I'm thirteen when I first hear about
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the Crow, and it's interesting you bring up God.
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And you were like mired in the goth culture if
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I remember correctly. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I shadow and everything,
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Oh my goodness, which was the style in the Appalachias. Yes,
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I went to the mall. I fit right in.
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I remember talking to some girls that didn't go to
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my school. I can remember she was definitely if you're
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going to call anyone I knew a goth, she was
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probably a goth. And she talked about this comic book.
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So this is nineteen ninety one. I assume this is
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prior to the fifth book coming out, But anyway, I
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remember she was the first person that actually brought that
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up to me, and I was like, oh hey, a
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girl that actually reads comics is talking to me about
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comic books, and I'll never forget it in your pants
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appropriate for the time. I remember her bringing that up
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and being amazed, Oh okay, well, what's this stuff about
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the Crow? And I remember I probably had a Overstreet
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comic book price guide that listed in it, but I
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didn't know what in the world it was until the
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movie drops, you know, the movie drops, and then I
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watched the movie, and I still never had a chance
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to read The Crow until we did this show.
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It's an odd thing because, like you, like, we've done
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so many of the big Pillar books and I'm kindding me,
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but you've done it on your own, whether or not.
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I'm not always on source material. Sometimes you talk to
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other people do But like when you think about some
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of the really big Pillar comics that are out there,
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we've done so many of them, and this was just
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a giant oversight that I wanted to correct.
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Yeah, I was glad to have the opportunity to talk
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about it tonight because I had never read it and
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I've been wanting to read it. This is actually a
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graphic novel that I own. I got it at an
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auction three four years ago.
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The art for this special edition that I have up
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on the screen, that's the one I bought. I bought
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the hardcover special edition for the show.
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Well, yeah, I bought it. I think I got it
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in an auction with a very large amount of trade paperbacks.
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I'm with a young goth girl. It's part of the auction.
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No, unfortunately not. I don't remember any girls being at
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that auction.
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They're in the long box.
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They come up. It's like a vampire.
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I can't this thing.
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James Obarr is I think the sole person that's doing this.
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I didn't see any other names attached to this. So
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James Obarr conceived created it in order. Now this is
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straight from the wiki, and I kind of want to
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read this because we are definitely going to be talking
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about it. He created this character, created the book in
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order to help him get over the loss of his
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fiance out.
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Yeah, this was a drama exercise.
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This is in nineteen seventy eight. He loses his fiance.
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He starts working on this in the early eighties. It
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doesn't get published by Caliber Press until nineteen eighty nine.
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First four books come out in nineteen eighty nine. Book
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five doesn't come out until nineteen ninety two. There's a
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large gap to finish this story. After the death of
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his fiance, he goes into the Marines. I don't know
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if that has anything to do with the large gap
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in between, but regardless, he was we're.
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Going out to fight the enemy. Now I'm trying to
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finish my comic book. I'm very sad.
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There was very much like, after reading a good bit
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of what was on the wiki, it felt like he,
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I don't want to say he had a death wish,
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but it was very much like a situation where Okay, hey,
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I'm going to go into the military now. I don't
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know if it's a situation where he was wanting to
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get his mind off of what happened.
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But you don't have passive suicidal ideations, Whereas I don't
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actively want to kill myself, but if I put myself
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in a position where it's likely to happen, I will
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not fight it either.
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And there is some of that in this book. Yeah,
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so here's a gist. The Crow a raw, unflinching blend
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of revenge, tragedy, Gothic romance, and surreal poetry. A graphic
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novel that bleeds equal parts beauty and brutality. Across five books,
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James Obarr weaves the story of Eric, a man murdered
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alongside his fiance Shelley, and pulled back from the grave
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by a supernatural crow to exact vengeance on the men
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who destroyed their lives. It's not just a tale of payback.
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It's a fever dream of love and loss. Were moments
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of tender memory crash violently against scenes of stark, stylized violence.
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Each confrontation with Shelley's killers is more than action. It's reckoning,
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steeped in dark humor, haunting imagery, and Eric's lyrical voice,
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giving the book an almost musical rhythm of rage and reflection,
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from grimy back alleys to quiet, snow covered graves. The
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snow excuse me, the crow, not the snow, the snow
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snow informer, Okay, the Crow. The Crow marries punk rock
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grit with gothic elegance, making it as emotionally resonant as
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it is visually striking for readers drawn to stories where
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love refuses to die and justice comes from black wings.
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We got Eric, who is engaged to be married to Shelley.
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They go out on a drive and run a foul
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of some very bad near Dwells who do some really
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bad things to these people, number one killing Eric and
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then raping and killing Shelley. It's bad. So the Crow
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shows up and gives Eric supernatural powers. I don't know.
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You can't tell if he's actually dead or not, because
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in the book, after he's shot, he gets taken to
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the hospital and he is still able to speak, even
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though he was shot in the back of the head
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and shot again shortly after that they're working on him.
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You can hear somebody say that they flat lined. The
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thing that I got from the movie was Eric Draven
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was brought back from the dead and therefore was, you know,
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exacting a vengeance. But it almost makes it seem like
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they just leave it ambiguous enough to make you think
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like maybe he did survive and he just has some
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kind of supernatural power.
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So before we get into the discussion with Mark, I
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want to lay out my immediate thoughts after reading the book.
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What stands out most to me is how well this
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book balances two very different energies, the role unrelenting grief
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of a man who's lost everything and the supernatural revenge
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quest of someone who can no longer be hurt physically.
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We see Eric's pain in the way he relives those
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moments with Shelley over and over, but it's never overdone.
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Each chapter moves him closer to the next person responsible,
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with the final confrontation with t Bird feeling like the
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moment the whole sum of these issues was building toward
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pain is the engine here. Emotional pain is what drives
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Eric forward. Physical pain doesn't even register anymore. That makes
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him feel less like a man and more like a
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force of nature, a force that turns his own suffering
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into physical punishment for the people who wronged him, And
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that way the book leans toward vengeance as justice. He's
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not simply lashing out, He's answering a wrong that, in
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his mind demands an equal weight in blood. The setting
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is just as important. Those rain soaked streets, the dingy apartments,
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the alleys lit only by a flickering neon sign. They're
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the physical reflection of Eric's inner world. A story this
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angry and lost wouldn't work in a field of flowers.
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Character Wise, before his death, Eric wasn't some disconnected ghost.
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He was fully in love with Shelley. His ghosthood begins
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after the murder. We see flashes of tenderness with her,
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moments that punctuate the violence, and that constant back and
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forth in tone makes the loss really hit hard. We
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even see him extend mercy once, giving a quick, painless
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death to someone he promised it to. But for the
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rest no boundaries Sherry, the little girl he meets, adds
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another layer of injustice. Her innocence and her suffering make
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you want justice for her too. Stylistically, O Barr uses
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nonlinear flashbacks and surreal moments in a way that feels
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true to trauma. Memories come when they come triggered by
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small things. The contrast between the soft painted look of
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the memories with Shelley and the harsh black and white
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revenge scenes makes the emotional shifts even sharper, and he
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often leaves the most brutal acts off panel, which somehow
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make them hit harder, like with t Bird's death. Knowing
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Obar's own story changes the way you read The Crow.
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His fiance Beverly was killed before he joined the Marines,
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and the real life murder of a young couple over
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a twenty dollars ring help shape the book. You can
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see these parallels, the wish fulfillment of being invincible, the
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compulsion to inflict pain on those who caused it in
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the darkness, and knowing that this didn't bring him Catharsis.
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In fact, Obar said it made him more self destructive.
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That's a current you can feel on every page.
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I want to talk about Shelley, Okay, I wrote you earlier.
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I was just like, this is relationship goals besides the
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rape and murder. I'm not a romantic and I'm just
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talking about this on my TikTok live. I'm more or
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less gotten over the stuff with the X and the
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falling apart of my marriage. I've been ready to just
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move upwards and onwards and move on to better things.
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It didn't work out. As long as she doesn't come
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after me or try to take away with my kids,
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I don't really care anymore. I'm moving on. I'm not
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the most romantic of people to begin with. Before I
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met my current girlfriend, I was kind of resigned, especially
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because I was still separated and not divorced. Did just
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not necessarily being partnered. Two marriages and a lot of
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really bad dating experiences. I was like, I don't think
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there's someone for me, and I'm okay with that. I'm
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okay with just doing art, raising my kids, working in
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that order, and moving on with my life. And I
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read a book like this and I was like, this
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reminds me that deep down inside, this is a relationship
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I would want, Like it is so perfectly romantically ethereal
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you know, Shelley and Eric are for me. I can
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see why this resonated with a lot of girls back
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when I was a teenager, because for the girls that
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I knew, this was romance.
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For gothic girls, this is their ideation of what love is.
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You have had comment here. I think if you're this
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deep into art, books and movies, you have to be
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a romantic. That's certainly an idea. I can't really fight
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you on that, My point being that I long to
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have the kind of energy and romance that Eric and
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Shelley had, and Shelley is by no means to me
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that real, Like she is all the energy of somebody
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who is chaotic and none of the toxicity that normally
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comes with that. It's beautiful. It's completely fictional, but it's beautiful.
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And Eric, well, I normally I said I was like
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gothajacent because I wasn't really goth. That's just not me.
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I've always been kind of a burly, angry, metal, snarling guy,
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so the sensitive gothy guy isn't really something that appeals
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to me either. But he's such a good match for her,
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and she's such a good match for him. May have
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this wild energy together and I'm like, in a perfect world,
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that's what i want. I want. I want to be
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Eric and I want my Shelley Boobs and all. James
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O'Barr was definitely working through some stuff. He gave her
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power Girl Ticks minus the window. My point is, I
279
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was like, he says such sweet things that he ruins him.
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Part of what appeals to me about this book is
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the romance, and that's what makes what happens to her
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so tragic, Like rape and murder is such a part
283
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of fiction, unfortunately, and a part of the life experience
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even more unfortunately, that you have to really frame it
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properly for it to have him act. And that's the thing.
286
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.039
It happens so much later in the book. You know
287
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what's gonna happen because he talks about it the whole time.
288
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You know, you're going through his revenge tale. And at
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the end of the book you realize how in love
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they were and what a tragic set of circumstances it
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was that she was taken from the world too early.
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It's like a modern telling of like in the sense
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of romantic tragedy that that's Romeo and Juliet, right, and
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it's funny because I was having this conversation with somebody recently.
295
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It might have been my son Romeo and Juliet is
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kind of a dumb story. It's just like, Oh, I
297
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think you're dead and we don't have medicine to know otherwise,
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so I'll kill myself. Oh I was not dead. I
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was alive, but now I'll be dead again because you
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00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:45.080
are dead and we are dumb. So but it's tragic,
301
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you know. It's like these young people, if only they
302
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hadn't done A three Is Company, they'd still be alive.
303
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This doesn't have that. That doesn't have like that level
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of like misunderstanding and stupidity. This is just pure unadulterated
305
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.519
romantic tragedy. And it's not the kind of thing I
306
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:03.919
normally love. But I love this. This is I don't
307
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It's been a while since I've read anything as good
308
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as The Crow, which is weird because I didn't think
309
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The Crow is going to be this good. But yeah,
310
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I really like when it was over. I kind of
311
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.000
cheered up a bit. I got emotional when it was over.
312
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The three years between book four and book five, one
313
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.480
would say that's a long wait, but really, what a payoff?
314
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Yeah.
315
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I mean that fifth issue is.
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00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.119
God, it makes me angry at the lions Gate remake.
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I thought about that. I've never seen it. You covered it.
318
00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.599
I might have listened to you guys talk about it,
319
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.480
do the review, But I just remember the sentiment was
320
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.319
it was not good. That's unfortunate because what was missing
321
00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.400
from that film compared to this book. Can you say
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off the top of your head.
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I don't think the relationship is as good in the
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00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.000
movie as it is in the book. Okay, I have
325
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.799
to go back and rewatch it again. But thinking back
326
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.200
to my experiences, like I showed it to my kids
327
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about a year or two ago, and I remember watching
328
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:03.640
it with them and thinking, like, the best part of
329
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.839
this movie is watching him kill the goons. Oh yeah,
330
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.079
it's the action of the movie. Sure, his relationship with
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00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.839
the kids is really really good. The curing of the
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00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.400
mom from her morphine addiction and helping men, that relationship
333
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.200
between the daughter and the junkie mom, that's all good.
334
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The weakest stuff is him and the girlfriend. Like, I
335
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don't think the people made that movie understood the girlfriend character.
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And I didn't think about it because I hadn't read
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the book before, so I just assumed she wasn't a
338
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big part of the book, or she was just kind
339
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of your average heart and she's not like this is
340
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they wrote her something special in this book.
341
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Yeah, it is Eric's reason for living, and then after
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she dies, she's still the reason he's living.
343
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.240
It's so funny because you're talking to the person who
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has never forgiven Sam Raimi for that opening line in
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Spider Man. Like all things, it was about a girl,
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can we not? So you would think I would reject
347
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this out of hand, but this is good.
348
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.000
Yeah, it's a pure romance at the beginning, and it's
349
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just something that gets ruined.
350
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She has this manic pixie spirit energy. I am the
351
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spirit of joy, and it's like he's healed through her.
352
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And just as soon as that happens, it's all taken
353
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away from him. And that's the tragedy.
354
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Yeah, and man, everyone.
355
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It's as good as her should not brutal ending.
356
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.759
I wonder how much of because he lost his fiance.
357
00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:29.960
Obarr lost his fiance at eighteen, eighteen years old. You know,
358
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.720
when you're young and there's not a lot of cynicism
359
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:40.079
in your life, yet that comes later. You know. I'm
360
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.880
certain that he felt like he lost his whole world.
361
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.119
Yeah, and he was never going to dance again because
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guilty feet it had no rhythm.
363
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.880
There is a real thing that I was picking up on.
364
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.279
You know, when you lose somebody. I think it was
365
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.640
a car accident that she died in. When you lose
366
00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:59.160
somebody like that, being a superhero is something that you
367
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.400
probably wish you could be to make the other ones pay.
368
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.680
He's the spirit of vengeance, like ghost Writer is the
369
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spirit avengine. You know. I think there's like the sort
370
00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:12.119
of tragic, depressive, gothic power fantasy I want to be.
371
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.240
I want to be so powerful I can avenge it
372
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can take revenge on behalf of that person. Talk about
373
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drug addiction being a mental health professional. The first time
374
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:26.359
you do serious drugs, it's awesome, but you'll never have
375
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:30.759
that feeling again the first time you really move the
376
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.559
needle on your internal pleasure meter. It gets hard to
377
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.200
recreate that feeling with almost anything, love included.
378
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.839
Yeah, I got a few questions here for you.
379
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:39.319
Ready.
380
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.160
I think you've got your side across there pretty well.
381
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.599
Oh, okay, I wasn't sure I was being clear.
382
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.759
Some of the best parts of this book and the
383
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:57.200
climax of this book, in my opinion, happens off panel. Yeah,
384
00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:58.960
would you have rather seen it on the page or
385
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.119
are you okay with the the hammer in his hand?
386
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.480
T bird laying down and that's the last thing you see.
387
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.279
There's a line set mostly by women to men, of
388
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.400
I don't want you to stop what you're doing. I
389
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.640
want you to want to do something with me. I
390
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.599
don't want to tell you to come spend time with me.
391
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.000
I want you to want to spend time with me,
392
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.799
like I think women for their own sort of childhood
393
00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:24.960
princess power fantasies is a guy that will go through
394
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:30.200
heaven and earth to prove their loyalty and devotion to you.
395
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.160
You know, I will kill dragons, and I will rope
396
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.519
a star and do all the herculean deeds just to
397
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.000
be close to you, to show you how much I
398
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.000
love you. And that's the mentality of a lot of girls.
399
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.759
And I feel like that was James Obarr's kind of
400
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.160
journey in this book of I don't know how else
401
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.079
to tell you how much I love you, how much
402
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.200
you mean to me, and how bereft of being whole
403
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.640
I am without you. So I'm going to send this
404
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.839
character on this journey because this isn't necessarily about killing people.
405
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.720
It's about healing trauma. You don't necessarily have to see
406
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.039
all the gore. It's about loyalty and the justice that
407
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:09.799
flows from that. That's kind of what I'm saying.
408
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.839
Right as far as the art style goes, this was
409
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:18.240
black and white, but we definitely have some change in
410
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:24.160
specific parts of the book, specifically the dream slash memory
411
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.279
sequences where it becomes god what you call that painted
412
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:30.920
almost I mean, still black and white, but it looks
413
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.119
very paint brushy to me for some reason. Well you have.
414
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.240
My interpretation was like he was using a mime as metaphor.
415
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.759
You know, mimes don't talk, and they kind of interact
416
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.240
in the world. When you see someone doing mime, they're
417
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.559
interacting in a world in a way that's different from
418
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.599
everybody else. For the mime, it's real, but the mime
419
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.319
is sort of operating on a ghost world that's also
420
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.160
occupying the same time in space as the real world.
421
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.160
That's what I feel like. That's why I think he
422
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:00.920
dresses Look, this is his imagination. You could have done
423
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.359
the crow anyway. He could have dressed him up like that. Man.
424
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.279
He specifically gave him a very specific look. That's why
425
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:07.839
I'm saying that I think he was going for mine,
426
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.400
and I think for him that's what mine is.
427
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.200
Yeah, I love when the crow's out on the street.
428
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:15.240
I mean it looks gritty, it looks grimy, the lines
429
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.519
are all sharp, and the dream sequences just to get
430
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.200
that across. It's more paintbrushy, it's more airy. It seems
431
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.240
like it's more fantasy filled.
432
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.880
So I mentioned somebody about Shelley. Shelley's body type. He
433
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.960
also could not have given Eric any less of.
434
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.519
A lift, and like twenty abs.
435
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.799
Yeah, you draw Tony Stark, you Captain America or thor
436
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.480
and they still look like an appropriate male body shape.
437
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:42.839
And then there's this motherfucker, you know, looking like Calvin
438
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:43.759
Klein jeans.
439
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.279
Apparently we talk about how Obar did this, and he's
440
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.880
you know, talked about it. Other people talk about it.
441
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.079
The forward and the book that I read talked about
442
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:55.519
how he was using this to process what was going
443
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:59.440
on with the tragedy that happened in his life. He
444
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.920
came out out and said that this, as much as
445
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.960
he wanted to be cathartic, actually made him more self destructive.
446
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.079
What do you think of that?
447
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.839
There are people who say I would prefer to not
448
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.160
talk about my trauma. It's going to dredge up a
449
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.039
lot of stuff, and I don't really have the scaffolding
450
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.359
to support it right now. When I was first going
451
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:19.759
through social school, I did a group. I was really
452
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.480
good about getting people to talk, and I ended the
453
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.759
session and we hadn't really resolved anything or put a
454
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:28.359
capstone on it. Now, when I talk to people, if
455
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.079
we get into a really heavy intent session but there's
456
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:33.640
a lot of emotion about the last ten to five
457
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.759
to ten minutes, I will lighten the mood. There was
458
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:38.720
a girl who we've got. We would have very intent
459
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.599
sessions and then the last five minutes I would man
460
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.960
explain basketball to her because it got her mind awful
461
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.200
was going on, yeah, right, but she couldn't give a
462
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.119
fuck less about basketball. What she needed was to get
463
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.400
pulled out of Like when I did my own EMDR
464
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.559
therapy with my therapist. After Melissa and I initially split
465
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.160
the last ten to fifteen minutes, the therapist always made
466
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.039
sure to get me out of it again, because you
467
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.039
gonna get stuck there, you know, And and sort of relive,
468
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.119
Like part of one of the symptoms of a post
469
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:09.440
access disorder is flashback. You know, it's like reliving the trauma.
470
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:13.079
And that's happening in the Crow here happened.
471
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.119
Through therapy, and that's why the therapist has to really
472
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.440
take great pains to make sure you're not there, Like,
473
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.599
all right, that the lock You're like, yeah.
474
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.960
That's definitely happening here in the crow. This was a
475
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.000
great book. I'm really glad that I had the opportunity
476
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.680
to sit down and absorb this. Reading this and understanding
477
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.240
what Obar went through, you could clearly tell he's trying
478
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.359
to work through what happened to him. There's a lot
479
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:43.279
of wish fulfillment in this character. He put out a
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piece that was raw, just like the gist said that
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it was really.
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This is how you should work through your trauma, not
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with someone's two hundred million dollars movie budget. Psycho.
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All right, good book, all around. I really enjoyed it.
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Thanks for joining us. All of this would be possible
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00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.519
without W two m net dot com, so make sure
487
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.319
to seek them out for more podcasts.
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00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.759
If you enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free
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00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.359
to share, and we look forward to entertaining you again
490
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:11.640
soon
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Book around, We'll hear you slas and filing down.
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We're here to set all right, let's go ahead. I
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have much more to say about these other two books,
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and I think a lot of it has to do
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with the unique subject matter and the way that the
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stories are told. Let's start with The Crow, all right,
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so as they did as a matter of fact, and
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a kick ass soundtrack as well. Let me just ask
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you first, when you were a young lad collecting comic books,
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did you hear of The Crow before the movie?
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I found out it was a comic book after I
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want to say, actually I knew of the soundtrack before
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I knew of the movie.
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Oh really, one of those it had Pantera on it, Yes,
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it did.
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I think my connection to The Crow is through Pantara.
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But all of those bands, of which we talked about
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on a Mentlheimmer review, if I remember correctly, it had
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Pantera on it. It had nine inch nails, nails, had a machine.
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It had a lot of bands, The Rollins Band.
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Yeah, Rollins Band doing ghost Rider.
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Jesrad Yeah, Zach Gear like he's gonna ship his fucking bands,
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fair pants getting that song out. But it was worth
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my life for that killed on, That's what I was
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thinking of. So here's the entire and like this is like,
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this is like wow. The nineties, it was the Cure
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Machines of Loving Grace on top of Pilots nine in
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nails doing a Joy Division cover Raging against the Machine,
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the violin femmes of the Rollins band. That grostrated song
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is actually a cover of a band of a song
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from the band's suicide Helmet, Pantera covering Poison idea. I
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told you back then, my friend Curly where at the
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end of the badge, It's like, what's behind the badge?
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But because it's fill on Sam and he kind of
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warbles it, it sounds like what big eyes you have,
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So for the longest time, knowing full well what he's
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really saying, the end of that song is always what
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big eyes you are nothing to do with but perfect
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anyway for love not Lisa, my life at the Thrill
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killed caled That Jesus and Mary Chane Medicine and Jane Sibery.
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I was a huge Pantera fan. I got the Crow soundtrack.
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All my friends are goth I'm kind of Gotha jacent.
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We should watch this movie. It's amazing and then I
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promptly forgot about it.
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I'm sure you've heard about Brandon Lee.
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That was the other thing. It was the mythology tied
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to the movie about his untimely and strange death and
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being somewhat similar to the way his dad died. That
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made the news. But even then my friends were making
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a huge deal out of it. I was like, Oh,
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it sucks to be him. That stuff doesn't necessarily affect
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me the way that it should. We so we did
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the long Road to Ruin on the Crow way back
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when the origine and all, and then the second the
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second movie. It was one episode in the three and four.
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With the second episode. We talked a lot about this
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last year when the Crow remake came out from Lionsgate
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formerly a studio, and I talked about how Like the
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Crow is just, you know, a really perfect movie, and
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it's not so easily recreated. There's definitely a product of
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his time. And I will tell you, after having read
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the book, I now understand why if anyone read this
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book in that era and you were even tangentially part
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of the goth culture, this was like your fable. This
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was mythology esthetically spoke to kids living in that time,
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probably the way nothing else did besides the music of
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the era. It's so as Martin Burton movies.
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So I think I'm thirteen when I first hear about
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the Crow, and it's interesting you bring up God.
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And you were like mired in the goth culture if
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I remember correctly. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I shadow and everything,
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Oh my goodness, which was the style in the Appalachias. Yes,
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I went to the mall. I fit right in.
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I remember talking to some girls that didn't go to
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my school. I can remember she was definitely if you're
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going to call anyone I knew a goth, she was
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probably a goth. And she talked about this comic book.
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So this is nineteen ninety one. I assume this is
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prior to the fifth book coming out, But anyway, I
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remember she was the first person that actually brought that
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up to me, and I was like, oh hey, a
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girl that actually reads comics is talking to me about
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comic books, and I'll never forget it in your pants
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appropriate for the time. I remember her bringing that up
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and being amazed, Oh okay, well, what's this stuff about
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the Crow? And I remember I probably had a Overstreet
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comic book price guide that listed in it, but I
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didn't know what in the world it was until the
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movie drops, you know, the movie drops, and then I
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watched the movie, and I still never had a chance
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to read The Crow until we did this show.
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It's an odd thing because, like you, like, we've done
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so many of the big Pillar books and I'm kindding me,
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but you've done it on your own, whether or not.
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I'm not always on source material. Sometimes you talk to
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other people do But like when you think about some
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of the really big Pillar comics that are out there,
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we've done so many of them, and this was just
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a giant oversight that I wanted to correct.
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Yeah, I was glad to have the opportunity to talk
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about it tonight because I had never read it and
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I've been wanting to read it. This is actually a
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graphic novel that I own. I got it at an
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auction three four years ago.
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The art for this special edition that I have up
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on the screen, that's the one I bought. I bought
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the hardcover special edition for the show.
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Well, yeah, I bought it. I think I got it
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in an auction with a very large amount of trade paperbacks.
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I'm with a young goth girl. It's part of the auction.
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No, unfortunately not. I don't remember any girls being at
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that auction.
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They're in the long box.
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They come up. It's like a vampire.
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I can't this thing.
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James Obarr is I think the sole person that's doing this.
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I didn't see any other names attached to this. So
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James Obarr conceived created it in order. Now this is
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straight from the wiki, and I kind of want to
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read this because we are definitely going to be talking
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about it. He created this character, created the book in
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order to help him get over the loss of his
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fiance out.
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Yeah, this was a drama exercise.
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This is in nineteen seventy eight. He loses his fiance.
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He starts working on this in the early eighties. It
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doesn't get published by Caliber Press until nineteen eighty nine.
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First four books come out in nineteen eighty nine. Book
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five doesn't come out until nineteen ninety two. There's a
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large gap to finish this story. After the death of
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his fiance, he goes into the Marines. I don't know
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if that has anything to do with the large gap
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in between, but regardless, he was we're.
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Going out to fight the enemy. Now I'm trying to
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finish my comic book. I'm very sad.
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There was very much like, after reading a good bit
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of what was on the wiki, it felt like he,
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I don't want to say he had a death wish,
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but it was very much like a situation where Okay, hey,
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I'm going to go into the military now. I don't
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know if it's a situation where he was wanting to
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get his mind off of what happened.
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But you don't have passive suicidal ideations, Whereas I don't
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actively want to kill myself, but if I put myself
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in a position where it's likely to happen, I will
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not fight it either.
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And there is some of that in this book. Yeah,
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so here's a gist. The Crow a raw, unflinching blend
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of revenge, tragedy, Gothic romance, and surreal poetry. A graphic
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novel that bleeds equal parts beauty and brutality. Across five books,
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James Obarr weaves the story of Eric, a man murdered
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alongside his fiance Shelley, and pulled back from the grave
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by a supernatural crow to exact vengeance on the men
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who destroyed their lives. It's not just a tale of payback.
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It's a fever dream of love and loss. Were moments
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of tender memory crash violently against scenes of stark, stylized violence.
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Each confrontation with Shelley's killers is more than action. It's reckoning,
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steeped in dark humor, haunting imagery, and Eric's lyrical voice,
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giving the book an almost musical rhythm of rage and reflection,
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from grimy back alleys to quiet, snow covered graves. The
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snow excuse me, the crow, not the snow, the snow
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snow informer, Okay, the Crow. The Crow marries punk rock
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grit with gothic elegance, making it as emotionally resonant as
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it is visually striking for readers drawn to stories where
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love refuses to die and justice comes from black wings.
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We got Eric, who is engaged to be married to Shelley.
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They go out on a drive and run a foul
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of some very bad near Dwells who do some really
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bad things to these people, number one killing Eric and
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then raping and killing Shelley. It's bad. So the Crow
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shows up and gives Eric supernatural powers. I don't know.
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You can't tell if he's actually dead or not, because
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in the book, after he's shot, he gets taken to
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the hospital and he is still able to speak, even
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though he was shot in the back of the head
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and shot again shortly after that they're working on him.
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You can hear somebody say that they flat lined. The
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thing that I got from the movie was Eric Draven
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was brought back from the dead and therefore was, you know,
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exacting a vengeance. But it almost makes it seem like
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they just leave it ambiguous enough to make you think
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like maybe he did survive and he just has some
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kind of supernatural power.
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So before we get into the discussion with Mark, I
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want to lay out my immediate thoughts after reading the book.
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What stands out most to me is how well this
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book balances two very different energies, the role unrelenting grief
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of a man who's lost everything and the supernatural revenge
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quest of someone who can no longer be hurt physically.
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We see Eric's pain in the way he relives those
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moments with Shelley over and over, but it's never overdone.
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Each chapter moves him closer to the next person responsible,
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with the final confrontation with t Bird feeling like the
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moment the whole sum of these issues was building toward
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pain is the engine here. Emotional pain is what drives
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Eric forward. Physical pain doesn't even register anymore. That makes
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him feel less like a man and more like a
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force of nature, a force that turns his own suffering
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into physical punishment for the people who wronged him, And
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that way the book leans toward vengeance as justice. He's
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not simply lashing out, He's answering a wrong that, in
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his mind demands an equal weight in blood. The setting
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is just as important. Those rain soaked streets, the dingy apartments,
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the alleys lit only by a flickering neon sign. They're
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the physical reflection of Eric's inner world. A story this
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angry and lost wouldn't work in a field of flowers.
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Character Wise, before his death, Eric wasn't some disconnected ghost.
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He was fully in love with Shelley. His ghosthood begins
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after the murder. We see flashes of tenderness with her,
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moments that punctuate the violence, and that constant back and
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forth in tone makes the loss really hit hard. We
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even see him extend mercy once, giving a quick, painless
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death to someone he promised it to. But for the
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rest no boundaries Sherry, the little girl he meets, adds
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another layer of injustice. Her innocence and her suffering make
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you want justice for her too. Stylistically, O Barr uses
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nonlinear flashbacks and surreal moments in a way that feels
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true to trauma. Memories come when they come triggered by
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small things. The contrast between the soft painted look of
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the memories with Shelley and the harsh black and white
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revenge scenes makes the emotional shifts even sharper, and he
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often leaves the most brutal acts off panel, which somehow
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make them hit harder, like with t Bird's death. Knowing
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Obar's own story changes the way you read The Crow.
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His fiance Beverly was killed before he joined the Marines,
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and the real life murder of a young couple over
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a twenty dollars ring help shape the book. You can
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see these parallels, the wish fulfillment of being invincible, the
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compulsion to inflict pain on those who caused it in
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the darkness, and knowing that this didn't bring him Catharsis.
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In fact, Obar said it made him more self destructive.
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That's a current you can feel on every page.
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I want to talk about Shelley, Okay, I wrote you earlier.
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I was just like, this is relationship goals besides the
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rape and murder. I'm not a romantic and I'm just
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talking about this on my TikTok live. I'm more or
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less gotten over the stuff with the X and the
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falling apart of my marriage. I've been ready to just
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move upwards and onwards and move on to better things.
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It didn't work out. As long as she doesn't come
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after me or try to take away with my kids,
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I don't really care anymore. I'm moving on. I'm not
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the most romantic of people to begin with. Before I
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met my current girlfriend, I was kind of resigned, especially
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because I was still separated and not divorced. Did just
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not necessarily being partnered. Two marriages and a lot of
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really bad dating experiences. I was like, I don't think
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there's someone for me, and I'm okay with that. I'm
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okay with just doing art, raising my kids, working in
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that order, and moving on with my life. And I
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read a book like this and I was like, this
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reminds me that deep down inside, this is a relationship
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I would want, Like it is so perfectly romantically ethereal
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you know, Shelley and Eric are for me. I can
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see why this resonated with a lot of girls back
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when I was a teenager, because for the girls that
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I knew, this was romance.
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For gothic girls, this is their ideation of what love is.
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You have had comment here. I think if you're this
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deep into art, books and movies, you have to be
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a romantic. That's certainly an idea. I can't really fight
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you on that, My point being that I long to
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have the kind of energy and romance that Eric and
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Shelley had, and Shelley is by no means to me
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that real, Like she is all the energy of somebody
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who is chaotic and none of the toxicity that normally
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comes with that. It's beautiful. It's completely fictional, but it's beautiful.
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And Eric, well, I normally I said I was like
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gothajacent because I wasn't really goth. That's just not me.
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I've always been kind of a burly, angry, metal, snarling guy,
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so the sensitive gothy guy isn't really something that appeals
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to me either. But he's such a good match for her,
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and she's such a good match for him. May have
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this wild energy together and I'm like, in a perfect world,
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that's what i want. I want. I want to be
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Eric and I want my Shelley Boobs and all. James
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O'Barr was definitely working through some stuff. He gave her
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power Girl Ticks minus the window. My point is, I
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was like, he says such sweet things that he ruins him.
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Part of what appeals to me about this book is
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the romance, and that's what makes what happens to her
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so tragic, Like rape and murder is such a part
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of fiction, unfortunately, and a part of the life experience
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even more unfortunately, that you have to really frame it
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properly for it to have him act. And that's the thing.
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It happens so much later in the book. You know
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what's gonna happen because he talks about it the whole time.
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You know, you're going through his revenge tale. And at
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the end of the book you realize how in love
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they were and what a tragic set of circumstances it
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was that she was taken from the world too early.
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It's like a modern telling of like in the sense
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of romantic tragedy that that's Romeo and Juliet, right, and
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it's funny because I was having this conversation with somebody recently.
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It might have been my son Romeo and Juliet is
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kind of a dumb story. It's just like, Oh, I
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think you're dead and we don't have medicine to know otherwise,
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so I'll kill myself. Oh I was not dead. I
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was alive, but now I'll be dead again because you
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are dead and we are dumb. So but it's tragic,
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you know. It's like these young people, if only they
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hadn't done A three Is Company, they'd still be alive.
303
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This doesn't have that. That doesn't have like that level
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of like misunderstanding and stupidity. This is just pure unadulterated
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romantic tragedy. And it's not the kind of thing I
306
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normally love. But I love this. This is I don't
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It's been a while since I've read anything as good
308
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as The Crow, which is weird because I didn't think
309
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The Crow is going to be this good. But yeah,
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I really like when it was over. I kind of
311
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cheered up a bit. I got emotional when it was over.
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The three years between book four and book five, one
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would say that's a long wait, but really, what a payoff?
314
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Yeah.
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I mean that fifth issue is.
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God, it makes me angry at the lions Gate remake.
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I thought about that. I've never seen it. You covered it.
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I might have listened to you guys talk about it,
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do the review, But I just remember the sentiment was
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it was not good. That's unfortunate because what was missing
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00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.400
from that film compared to this book. Can you say
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off the top of your head.
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I don't think the relationship is as good in the
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movie as it is in the book. Okay, I have
325
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.799
to go back and rewatch it again. But thinking back
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to my experiences, like I showed it to my kids
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about a year or two ago, and I remember watching
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it with them and thinking, like, the best part of
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00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.839
this movie is watching him kill the goons. Oh yeah,
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it's the action of the movie. Sure, his relationship with
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the kids is really really good. The curing of the
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mom from her morphine addiction and helping men, that relationship
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between the daughter and the junkie mom, that's all good.
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The weakest stuff is him and the girlfriend. Like, I
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don't think the people made that movie understood the girlfriend character.
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And I didn't think about it because I hadn't read
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the book before, so I just assumed she wasn't a
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big part of the book, or she was just kind
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of your average heart and she's not like this is
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they wrote her something special in this book.
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Yeah, it is Eric's reason for living, and then after
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she dies, she's still the reason he's living.
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It's so funny because you're talking to the person who
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has never forgiven Sam Raimi for that opening line in
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Spider Man. Like all things, it was about a girl,
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can we not? So you would think I would reject
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this out of hand, but this is good.
348
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Yeah, it's a pure romance at the beginning, and it's
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just something that gets ruined.
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She has this manic pixie spirit energy. I am the
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spirit of joy, and it's like he's healed through her.
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And just as soon as that happens, it's all taken
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away from him. And that's the tragedy.
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Yeah, and man, everyone.
355
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It's as good as her should not brutal ending.
356
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I wonder how much of because he lost his fiance.
357
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Obarr lost his fiance at eighteen, eighteen years old. You know,
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when you're young and there's not a lot of cynicism
359
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in your life, yet that comes later. You know. I'm
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certain that he felt like he lost his whole world.
361
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Yeah, and he was never going to dance again because
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guilty feet it had no rhythm.
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There is a real thing that I was picking up on.
364
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You know, when you lose somebody. I think it was
365
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a car accident that she died in. When you lose
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somebody like that, being a superhero is something that you
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probably wish you could be to make the other ones pay.
368
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.680
He's the spirit of vengeance, like ghost Writer is the
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spirit avengine. You know. I think there's like the sort
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of tragic, depressive, gothic power fantasy I want to be.
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I want to be so powerful I can avenge it
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can take revenge on behalf of that person. Talk about
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drug addiction being a mental health professional. The first time
374
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you do serious drugs, it's awesome, but you'll never have
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that feeling again the first time you really move the
376
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.559
needle on your internal pleasure meter. It gets hard to
377
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.200
recreate that feeling with almost anything, love included.
378
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.839
Yeah, I got a few questions here for you.
379
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Ready.
380
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.160
I think you've got your side across there pretty well.
381
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.599
Oh, okay, I wasn't sure I was being clear.
382
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.759
Some of the best parts of this book and the
383
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:57.200
climax of this book, in my opinion, happens off panel. Yeah,
384
00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:58.960
would you have rather seen it on the page or
385
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:01.119
are you okay with the the hammer in his hand?
386
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.480
T bird laying down and that's the last thing you see.
387
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.279
There's a line set mostly by women to men, of
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I don't want you to stop what you're doing. I
389
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.640
want you to want to do something with me. I
390
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.599
don't want to tell you to come spend time with me.
391
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.000
I want you to want to spend time with me,
392
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.799
like I think women for their own sort of childhood
393
00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:24.960
princess power fantasies is a guy that will go through
394
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:30.200
heaven and earth to prove their loyalty and devotion to you.
395
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.160
You know, I will kill dragons, and I will rope
396
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.519
a star and do all the herculean deeds just to
397
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.000
be close to you, to show you how much I
398
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.000
love you. And that's the mentality of a lot of girls.
399
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.759
And I feel like that was James Obarr's kind of
400
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.160
journey in this book of I don't know how else
401
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.079
to tell you how much I love you, how much
402
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.200
you mean to me, and how bereft of being whole
403
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.640
I am without you. So I'm going to send this
404
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.839
character on this journey because this isn't necessarily about killing people.
405
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.720
It's about healing trauma. You don't necessarily have to see
406
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.039
all the gore. It's about loyalty and the justice that
407
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:09.799
flows from that. That's kind of what I'm saying.
408
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.839
Right as far as the art style goes, this was
409
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:18.240
black and white, but we definitely have some change in
410
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:24.160
specific parts of the book, specifically the dream slash memory
411
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.279
sequences where it becomes god what you call that painted
412
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:30.920
almost I mean, still black and white, but it looks
413
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.119
very paint brushy to me for some reason. Well you have.
414
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.240
My interpretation was like he was using a mime as metaphor.
415
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.759
You know, mimes don't talk, and they kind of interact
416
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.240
in the world. When you see someone doing mime, they're
417
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.559
interacting in a world in a way that's different from
418
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.599
everybody else. For the mime, it's real, but the mime
419
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.319
is sort of operating on a ghost world that's also
420
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.160
occupying the same time in space as the real world.
421
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.160
That's what I feel like. That's why I think he
422
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:00.920
dresses Look, this is his imagination. You could have done
423
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.359
the crow anyway. He could have dressed him up like that. Man.
424
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.279
He specifically gave him a very specific look. That's why
425
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:07.839
I'm saying that I think he was going for mine,
426
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.400
and I think for him that's what mine is.
427
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.200
Yeah, I love when the crow's out on the street.
428
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:15.240
I mean it looks gritty, it looks grimy, the lines
429
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.519
are all sharp, and the dream sequences just to get
430
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.200
that across. It's more paintbrushy, it's more airy. It seems
431
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.240
like it's more fantasy filled.
432
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.880
So I mentioned somebody about Shelley. Shelley's body type. He
433
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.960
also could not have given Eric any less of.
434
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.519
A lift, and like twenty abs.
435
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.799
Yeah, you draw Tony Stark, you Captain America or thor
436
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.480
and they still look like an appropriate male body shape.
437
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:42.839
And then there's this motherfucker, you know, looking like Calvin
438
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:43.759
Klein jeans.
439
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.279
Apparently we talk about how Obar did this, and he's
440
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.880
you know, talked about it. Other people talk about it.
441
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.079
The forward and the book that I read talked about
442
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:55.519
how he was using this to process what was going
443
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:59.440
on with the tragedy that happened in his life. He
444
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.920
came out out and said that this, as much as
445
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.960
he wanted to be cathartic, actually made him more self destructive.
446
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.079
What do you think of that?
447
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.839
There are people who say I would prefer to not
448
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.160
talk about my trauma. It's going to dredge up a
449
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.039
lot of stuff, and I don't really have the scaffolding
450
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.359
to support it right now. When I was first going
451
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:19.759
through social school, I did a group. I was really
452
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.480
good about getting people to talk, and I ended the
453
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.759
session and we hadn't really resolved anything or put a
454
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:28.359
capstone on it. Now, when I talk to people, if
455
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.079
we get into a really heavy intent session but there's
456
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:33.640
a lot of emotion about the last ten to five
457
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.759
to ten minutes, I will lighten the mood. There was
458
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:38.720
a girl who we've got. We would have very intent
459
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.599
sessions and then the last five minutes I would man
460
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.960
explain basketball to her because it got her mind awful
461
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.200
was going on, yeah, right, but she couldn't give a
462
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.119
fuck less about basketball. What she needed was to get
463
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.400
pulled out of Like when I did my own EMDR
464
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.559
therapy with my therapist. After Melissa and I initially split
465
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.160
the last ten to fifteen minutes, the therapist always made
466
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.039
sure to get me out of it again, because you
467
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.039
gonna get stuck there, you know, And and sort of relive,
468
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.119
Like part of one of the symptoms of a post
469
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:09.440
access disorder is flashback. You know, it's like reliving the trauma.
470
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:13.079
And that's happening in the Crow here happened.
471
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.119
Through therapy, and that's why the therapist has to really
472
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.440
take great pains to make sure you're not there, Like,
473
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.599
all right, that the lock You're like, yeah.
474
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.960
That's definitely happening here in the crow. This was a
475
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.000
great book. I'm really glad that I had the opportunity
476
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.680
to sit down and absorb this. Reading this and understanding
477
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.240
what Obar went through, you could clearly tell he's trying
478
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.359
to work through what happened to him. There's a lot
479
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:43.279
of wish fulfillment in this character. He put out a
480
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.799
piece that was raw, just like the gist said that
481
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:47.480
it was really.
482
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.400
This is how you should work through your trauma, not
483
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:53.480
with someone's two hundred million dollars movie budget. Psycho.
484
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:57.160
All right, good book, all around. I really enjoyed it.
485
00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.759
Thanks for joining us. All of this would be possible
486
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.519
without W two m net dot com, so make sure
487
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.319
to seek them out for more podcasts.
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00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.759
If you enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free
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to share, and we look forward to entertaining you again
490
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