Ceora Ford!

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five, four, three, two, one.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to the last tech podcast.
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I have with me today a hero, a superstar,
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an amazing person and someone that I'm so excited
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to speak to today.
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She's a keynote speaker and a developer advocate
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at Auth0 by Okta.
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I wanna welcome Ceora Ford.
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Thank you so much for being here, Ceora.
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Thanks so much for having me, I'm so excited.
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It's a long time coming.
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You're like one of my first guests,
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so I don't know if that's true,
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but a long time coming that we get to talk to each other
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in this sort of format.
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I know we've talked a few times over the years.
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So you are a killer in all things DevRel.
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Tell me how you got your start in that world.
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Give me the full rundown.
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Yeah, so I don't know if I,
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I feel like I'm just now starting to get my footing
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with DevRel.
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Like I feel like when I first got started,
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I was kind of like trying to figure out
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what I wanted my voice to be like and all that kind of stuff
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and I feel like I finally have that down pat now.
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But I got started in DevRel.
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I feel like I really got started in DevRel
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when I was getting into the tech industry
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because a lot of what I was doing was learning in public,
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which happens to be a big part of most DevRel jobs.
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So I was doing a lot of writing.
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I was on podcasts.
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I was doing a lot of like virtual conferences
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and things like that.
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And the goal was to get myself out there
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so that it would be easier for me to find my first job.
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It just so happened that while I was doing all that,
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I really enjoyed all that stuff.
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So I really liked the idea of being able to write
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and livestream and all that kind of stuff.
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And so I had my first couple jobs
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in the tech industry were okay.
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Like I learned a lot,
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but they weren't the best fit for me growth wise.
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And so I found myself in a position
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where I was looking for a new job
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and someone was like, hey, we have this role
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at a company called ApolographQL,
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which you're very familiar with.
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And it was a developer advocate role.
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And I was like, hmm, I should give this a try.
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So I did.
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And I really liked it.
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At that time, like I said,
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I was still kind of finding my footing
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with DevRel and everything.
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I didn't know,
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but I was also experiencing depression at the time.
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So that also affected my ability to like show up at work.
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And so then things,
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a lot of things changed internally at the company.
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And I found myself again in a position where it was like,
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I've grown a lot here,
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but it's time for me to move on to my next role.
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So my next role was Auth0 by Okta.
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The crazy thing is that when I,
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I had taken like three months in between my job.
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So ApolographQL and Auth0,
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there were like three months there
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where I was just kind of like giving myself a chance
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to kind of refresh myself.
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What ended up happening was I,
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again, didn't realize I was like experiencing depression
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this whole time.
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And then I start my job at Auth0
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and the depression gets considerably worse,
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like during my first like few months there,
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to the point where I had to take like medical leave
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and I was like taking a break from socials
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and all this kind of stuff.
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And then when I finally came back,
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I finally came back January, 2023.
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So that was just over a year ago.
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And I started to feel like myself again.
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I started to feel like I could actually do my job well.
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And now like a year later,
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I'm starting to feel like, okay,
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I actually really know what I'm doing now.
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So all that to say that I feel like I'm just now
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figuring out like what's going on,
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what I like to do, how to like execute DevRel well,
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how to, you know, there's a lot of debate
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in the DevRel world about how to kind of converge
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your community goals with your company's business goals.
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And I feel like I kind of have a good vision for that now.
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So yeah, I'm just now starting to know how to do this job.
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After all of that.
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So that's like the long winded way
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of how I got to where I am now.
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That's amazing.
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Well, I would love to feel like
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I know what I'm doing at all.
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I respect that very much.
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So what do you think is the sweet spot?
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Like what are the things that you're doing
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that feel like you're in your zone now?
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So I have been trying to focus more
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on like product centric work and like demo centric work.
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So what I mean by that is I think sometimes in DevRel,
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we can start to become very like broadcasty and informative.
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And when I say informative, that's not a bad thing,
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but like it can be high level information
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that doesn't necessarily apply to like real world issues
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that developers are confronting.
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And so I kind of fell into the habit of doing that,
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of like, oh, this seems interesting to me,
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but like, is this really relevant to not only the community,
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but also to my team and our business goals?
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And so I feel like my sweet spot now
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is that I'm trying to focus more on building things.
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And as I build things with the product,
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and I'm seeing problems that these,
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like our product features solve.
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And then I also have started to do a little bit of like,
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I like lurk.
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That sounds like-
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Not what I thought you were gonna say.
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I do a lot of like lurking on social media
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to figure out like what problems
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are developers actually having?
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Because there's like,
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once you're not a developer anymore full time,
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there's like a gap between like what you know
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and what developers are actually experiencing on the job.
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And so I try to, you know, how do you, yeah.
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Decrease that gap, that's the word I'm looking for.
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I try to decrease that gap as much as possible.
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So I'm on Reddit, I'm on Twitter,
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I'm in Discord communities trying to see like,
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what problems are developers actually having?
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And then what problems is our product solving?
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And how do those things converge?
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So that's kind of my method now.
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And I try to center that around like,
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projects that for me are fun and interesting,
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so that I actually work on them
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when I actually finish them.
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So an example of this has been like,
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a lot of people are very concerned with like security.
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A lot of people have a lot of questions around pass keys
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and password lists and all this kind of stuff.
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And these are features that Auth0 provides.
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And so I wanna educate people on these things,
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but in a way that will be relevant to developers.
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So that means I'm building my own application
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where I'm implementing password lists.
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But instead of just building like a basic application,
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I try to build things that are actually fun
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and interesting to me.
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So that when I give talks and when I do workshops
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and I give demos and things like that,
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it's fun for me, but also hopefully fun for the audience.
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And it also becomes a thing where it's like,
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oh, this is something that only Ciora would do.
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I would only get a Barbie theme talk from Ciora.
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You know what I mean?
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So this year, this is so in serious, you guys.
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I'm doing all this like fancy business talk,
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but when I actually tell you what I'm working on,
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you're gonna be like, who is this girl?
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So.
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I doubt it, but go on.
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This year, I'm working on a Beyonce website.
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Hell yeah.
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It's a Beyonce website and I'm going to make it
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password lists and the whole idea is that it's gonna
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basically be like a mock version of something
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like Ticketmaster or SeatGeek or something like that
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where you buy tickets, except it's like exclusively
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for Beyonce, the currency is fake, all that kind of stuff.
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But the point is, it's based off of my own experience
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with buying concert tickets to see Beyonce
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when I lost my password and I'm literally standing
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outside the venue and trying to log in
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so I can access my ticket.
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And if the platform I was using had password lists,
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it would have been so much easier.
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So that's the premise of it.
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I say a lot to say, that's kind of the method
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that I'm using now to relate to developers
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and also teach people more about the product
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that I'm a part of, make my managers happy at the same time.
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And it's a balancing act and I feel like I'm starting
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to figure it out, so we'll see.
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I haven't even given this talk yet.
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I'm giving it for the first time in two weeks.
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So I'll keep you guys posted on how that actually goes.
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But in my head, it sounds like it's gonna go okay, I hope.
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Yeah, I think more than okay.
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I think that having a hook for a talk is so important
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because there's so many talks you see
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that are just like user, authorized user,
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let's robotically communicate this stuff.
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And that type of approach feels like people
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actually remember things and remember you.
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Yeah, and I'm also hoping that people will come
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to the talk because identity security
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is not the shiniest subject.
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It's not AI or something like that.
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You know what I mean?
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So if I put myself again in the developer's shoes
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and I'm at a conference and then someone's like,
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oh, identity security, blah, blah, blah,
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I'm gonna be like, okay, I'm not really
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that interested in that.
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But I try to make it a little bit more interesting
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so that people will wanna come,
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people will enjoy hearing about it
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because I've read through the white papers
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and stuff like that and they are, woo!
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And the whole point is that we want people
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to want to be learning about identity,
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engage with the subject, and learning about new security
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features that they can implement and stuff like that.
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And if it's boring, are they gonna wanna do that?
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No, so I try to add a little bit of my own personality
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and make it a little bit more fun.
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I love that.
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How many times have you seen Beyonce?
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Oh, only twice, only twice.
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Okay, that's amazing, nice.
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Yes, I for the longest was like too broke
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to afford tickets, not even gonna lie.
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And this year that she toured was the first time
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that I actually had money so I went to see her twice.
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I saw her here in Philly.
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And then I also saw her in Houston
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because Houston is her hometown
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and I knew that it was gonna be a great show.
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So I flew out there by myself like a crazy person
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and had the time of my life.
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Yeah.
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That's aspirational, that's so cool.
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And it was like, oh my gosh, so amazing, like unforgettable.
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We're gonna get another tour you think with the new album?
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I hope so.
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New songs, like a country festival somewhere in Texas.
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That would be nice.
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The only thing is also those tickets are not cheap.
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No, not at all.
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Those tickets will not be cheap.
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So I'm like, I gotta start saving
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and I gotta like stop eating out so much and everything.
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But all worth it, I'm sure.
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Yeah, it'll be worth it.
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Yeah, cause like honestly, I keep telling myself this,
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like when I bought those tickets,
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especially the ones in Houston,
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I was like, you are so crazy, what are you doing?
261
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,920
Like this is not financially responsible at all.
262
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,240
But now in hindsight, I don't miss the money,
263
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:51,640
but I love those memories.
264
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,000
So that's what I keep telling myself.
265
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,980
The memories matter, you know?
266
00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:56,040
But the money does have to be there.
267
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,040
So I do have to start saving.
268
00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,000
Totally.
269
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000
I don't go bankrupt over Beyonce, like come on now.
270
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,240
Oh my goodness.
271
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,120
But she is helping you with demos for your talks and things.
272
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,240
So maybe it's all like a work expense ultimately.
273
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,960
Like, can you send that to Aucir?
274
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:13,960
If I could.
275
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,600
If I could figure out a way to finanly,
276
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,000
also if me giving this talk and this demo
277
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,120
somehow gets me promoted, I kind of owe Beyonce.
278
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:25,960
I think so.
279
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,200
You have to show up, I think, right?
280
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,320
Exactly, exactly.
281
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,400
I gotta pay it forward.
282
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,720
Absolutely.
283
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,560
I love that.
284
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:35,640
That's so funny.
285
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,040
So tell me a little more as a person
286
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,080
who doesn't know things about passwordless auth.
287
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,600
What is, tell me more.
288
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,160
It sounds way more obscure than it actually is.
289
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,040
And this is coming from someone who for the longest
290
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,760
was like, what are we even talking about here, you guys?
291
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,760
What's going on?
292
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,680
Because passwordless, first of all,
293
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,360
having passwords has been a part of our internet
294
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,600
infrastructure forever.
295
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,480
So when you hear passwordless, everyone's like,
296
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,320
what's going on?
297
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,640
This sounds so unsafe.
298
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:07,520
What do you mean?
299
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,000
You think of passwordless, you think of someone
300
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,840
like your grandmom's phone that doesn't have a key,
301
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,760
you know, the passcode to get into it and everything.
302
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:15,600
So you're like, what?
303
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,600
That sounds so not secure at all.
304
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,160
But actually, passwordless is this.
305
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:22,560
It's usually one of two things.
306
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,960
It's like, first of all, initially,
307
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,400
oftentimes you still have to use a password
308
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,360
when you create an account.
309
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,360
A lot of companies will still have you do that.
310
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,200
A lot of websites will still have you do that.
311
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,520
But passwordless is basically a great way to reauthenticate.
312
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,320
So when you're re-logging in,
313
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,040
especially when you're standing in line to see Beyonce
314
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,600
and there are a thousand people behind you
315
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,400
waiting for you to move, you know what I mean?
316
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,240
I do.
317
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,080
This is like a very quick and easy and user-friendly way
318
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,400
to authenticate yourself.
319
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:50,720
So this is normally how it works.
320
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,880
When we say passwordless, this is usually what we mean.
321
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,640
And you've probably, once you hear me describe it,
322
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,280
you'll be like, oh, I've done that before.
323
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,880
So say you're trying to log in
324
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,500
and a website will usually give you the option
325
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:02,500
to use your password.
326
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:05,040
Sometimes they'll give you the option to use
327
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,400
like a third-party service like Google or Twitter
328
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,160
or Facebook to authenticate yourself.
329
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,520
Or they will give you the option
330
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,440
to use some sort of other form of authentication
331
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,360
like a phone number or an email address.
332
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,400
And when we say passwordless, that's what we mean.
333
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,560
Phone number or email address.
334
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,760
And usually what happens is you'll give them your phone number
335
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,720
and they'll send you usually like six to eight digit code
336
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,160
and you put that in and that tells them who you are
337
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,080
and now you're in.
338
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,720
You don't have to remember all these obscure numbers
339
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,600
and letters and capitalize this and lowercase that
340
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,320
and underscore and all that kind of stuff.
341
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,960
So it just makes it a lot more secure.
342
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,360
A lot of times these pass codes will expire after a while.
343
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,160
So again, more secure, more user-friendly.
344
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,320
I think about the, one of the reasons why I like passwordless
345
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,880
is that because like I said, it's so user-friendly.
346
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,120
I spend a lot of time with like my older family members
347
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,720
and they're the kind of people that have
348
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,160
like the password notebooks, which I have to,
349
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,600
I always have to say this, those are terrible.
350
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,660
No one should own password notebooks, okay?
351
00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:11,800
Because if you lose it, if someone comes in your home
352
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,320
who you shouldn't trust and they see that password notebook,
353
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,920
like in a lot of times the password notebooks
354
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,780
have it in big bold letters, password's here, you know?
355
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,100
Someone could have access to all of your accounts
356
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:25,040
and like my grandparents have those,
357
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,520
I have aunts and uncles who have those
358
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,080
and passwordless removes the need for that
359
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,200
because you always have that option to authenticate
360
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,760
through your email or your phone.
361
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,640
And most people always have their email or their phone
362
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,560
like access to either one of those.
363
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,940
And so like as an example that I think about all the time,
364
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:43,540
which makes me think this is a great use case
365
00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:45,720
because I'm always of the mindset when it comes to teaching
366
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,240
or even especially with products,
367
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,680
if older people can use it
368
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,220
or if really young people can use it,
369
00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:52,480
then it's a great thing.
370
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,680
If older people can understand it
371
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,480
or if really young people can understand it,
372
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,420
then you're doing a great job
373
00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,020
at teaching whatever the subject is.
374
00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:02,160
So my grandfather, when my grandmother passed away,
375
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,280
he had to like handle all of his,
376
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,160
like all of the accounts that were under her name
377
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,880
and so he had to re-authenticate
378
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,200
through their phone service provider
379
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,400
and they did it through sending him a code
380
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,920
through his phone number.
381
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,840
And he was able to figure that out on his own very easily.
382
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,440
And if he can do that, that means anyone can.
383
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,620
Now, if he had to figure out what her password was
384
00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:22,040
and try to find whichever notebook
385
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,960
had all her passwords in the house,
386
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,200
that would have been a mess.
387
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,340
So those are one of the reasons why I really like
388
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:28,600
to advocate for passwordless.
389
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,640
It's like a feature that people are gonna think like,
390
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,860
I don't know, this seems so complicated,
391
00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:36,240
but not to be doing shameless promo,
392
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,960
but Auth0 makes it really easy to implement this.
393
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,960
So it's always nice working for a company
394
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,160
that builds a product that is actually really useful
395
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,800
and actually serves to make people's jobs easier
396
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,860
because passwordless is such a great feature to have.
397
00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:55,920
But if you try to think about how to implement that
398
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,240
on your own, it sounds so complex.
399
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:00,720
That's when it actually sounds complex,
400
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,400
but Auth0 does make that a lot easier.
401
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,000
So yeah, I love it.
402
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,560
I, not to talk about a sad thing,
403
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,440
but my dad passed away a few years ago
404
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,840
and we went to, we like opened up his computer
405
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,120
and there was a password sheet.
406
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,960
It was so, it was wild times.
407
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,000
And then we found copies of this password sheet
408
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,360
all over the house.
409
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,680
And I was just like, this is so scary.
410
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,840
I'm like ripping these things off.
411
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,760
And it was just like, please don't do that.
412
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,600
So I had a conversation with my mom
413
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,360
about like, never do that.
414
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,600
Just stop typing your passwords out and printing them.
415
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,120
This is not how we do things.
416
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,760
So I'll let her know about passwordless as a thing.
417
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,920
Yeah.
418
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,800
Yeah, it's so bad.
419
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,440
I really wish that like more companies
420
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,800
would offer passwordless
421
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,440
because the amount of times I've been with like great aunts
422
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,760
and uncles and my, you know, grandparents and everything.
423
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,560
And I'm like, okay, I'm trying to help them log
424
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,560
into their bank account or whatever.
425
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:00,860
And they pull out that notebook
426
00:17:00,860 --> 00:17:02,040
with all of their passwords.
427
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,840
And I'm just like, if I was a distrustful person,
428
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,560
like I could just have access to everything, you know?
429
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:09,840
And then on top of that,
430
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,000
it's also really hard for them to find all the time.
431
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,520
Cause like they have, that's the part.
432
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,360
They'll have all their passwords there.
433
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:18,440
I know I have the sheet somewhere, yeah.
434
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,180
And then we end up going through like 50 passwords
435
00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:25,180
and we get locked out of the account.
436
00:17:25,180 --> 00:17:26,240
It's just very silly.
437
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,360
It becomes very silly after a while.
438
00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:29,200
So that's why.
439
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,080
And then also everybody does this.
440
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,500
People reuse the same password for everything,
441
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:36,960
which is also not good.
442
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,600
Anyway, all that to say passwordless
443
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,120
kind of is the wave you guys.
444
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,160
Like we really should start thinking about that more often
445
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,360
because it's surprisingly like secure.
446
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,640
I can't get into the details
447
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,680
cause I don't have like all the stats in front of me,
448
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,520
but it is very secure compared to like, you know,
449
00:17:53,520 --> 00:18:00,120
password full, password more.
450
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:00,960
Yeah.
451
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,160
Yeah, password authentication.
452
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,120
It's actually much more secure than it,
453
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,960
than it normally is with that just because of all of the,
454
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,160
like you're using your passwords
455
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,720
and all the kinds of stuff that can happen
456
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,520
where it can be easily hacked, passwordless kind of
457
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,480
sidesteps a lot of those like vulnerabilities
458
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:18,840
and things like that.
459
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:19,840
Yeah.
460
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,600
Are there other password tips or best practice type things
461
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,800
that you like or use a lot?
462
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,640
Share with others.
463
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,240
Yeah, I mean, I'm like kind of stuck on passwordless
464
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,720
because a lot of the other,
465
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,320
surprisingly like password stuff, it's really annoying.
466
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,280
Yeah.
467
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,560
And I say that because normally I'm an advocate
468
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,600
for multifactor authentication
469
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,400
and kind of in a way passwordless is that,
470
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,120
but a lot of times when we think of multifactor authentication,
471
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,560
we're using like an app like Authy or Google Authenticator.
472
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600
Okta has an authentication,
473
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,640
like a multifactor authentication app as well.
474
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,400
And those can be great,
475
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,840
except for when like you get a new phone
476
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:04,680
or something like that
477
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,960
and now like you lose all your backup codes.
478
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,080
And so then when you're trying to log into an application
479
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,480
that requires your multifactor authentication
480
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,960
through one of those apps, you're kind of screwed,
481
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,120
which has happened to me before.
482
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,960
Like I literally cannot log into Discord
483
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,920
because I don't remember what,
484
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,040
I don't have like that connection between the app
485
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,920
and the authentication app.
486
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,720
So that is like really annoying,
487
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,280
but it also does keep your stuff more secure
488
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,360
because I can't get into my Discord account,
489
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,520
but neither can the hackers.
490
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,320
So I guess that.
491
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,040
No one gets to use my Discord.
492
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:36,880
Yeah.
493
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,040
I guess in a way that's like a good thing.
494
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,400
The thing that I like to tell like the non-technical people
495
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,440
is usually I'm really hard on like,
496
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:50,840
do not use those password notebooks.
497
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,040
I've made TikToks about this and everything
498
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,600
just because like people have a tendency to like think,
499
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,560
oh, this is such a great way to keep up with,
500
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,040
no, it's not, it's really not.
501
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,840
Also another thing that is,
502
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,640
I'm looking into the security of it
503
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,480
because a lot of people are very confused
504
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,280
about how biometrics work.
505
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,280
You know, for people who don't know,
506
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,480
using your fingerprint, your eye, iris scanner, whatever,
507
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,680
face scanning, that kind of thing.
508
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,000
I think I have to look into the security of all those,
509
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,440
but I don't have any qualms against them as is.
510
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,520
Most of these things are powered by Paskis,
511
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,920
which generally speaking are very secure.
512
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,000
Now probably, I'm probably like boring people
513
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,000
by being like Paskis and all this technical jargon.
514
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,280
No, you're not at all.
515
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,680
But yeah, I think the thing I would say,
516
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,520
just to answer your question
517
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,080
because I kind of like walked in circles just now,
518
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,800
try multi-factor authentication when it makes sense
519
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,680
and try passwordless too
520
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,200
because that can make things a lot easier for you.
521
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,040
I love it.
522
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,240
And no, don't apologize for that.
523
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,520
You know lots of stuff.
524
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,520
I need to know it all, so thank you.
525
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,440
I wonder when you're learning all this new stuff,
526
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,280
you're working kind of at the cutting edge
527
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,720
of all off things right now.
528
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,440
How do you learn something new?
529
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,160
What's the process for that?
530
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,560
So I force myself to give a talk on the subject, literally.
531
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,280
That's like the main way that I learn things
532
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,760
because otherwise I'm gonna be like,
533
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,440
oh, I'll get to it.
534
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,560
I'll do it someday.
535
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,640
Because for the longest,
536
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,720
my team has been really big on passwordless
537
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,520
and Paskis and that kind of thing.
538
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,720
And I've been like, yeah, but not really knowing
539
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,200
what's going on, honestly.
540
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,320
And so that's why I was like,
541
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,680
I'm going to actually force myself to learn about this
542
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,680
by giving a talk on it.
543
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,640
And so that's usually my method when it comes to off stuff.
544
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,560
And my goal is to like,
545
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,560
I always give the same talk multiple times,
546
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,000
but I try to improve on it
547
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,640
and make it a little bit more technical,
548
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,240
add a little bit more details over time.
549
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,800
Especially once you give a talk once or twice,
550
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:00,920
you start getting questioned
551
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,480
and that forces you to really know your stuff
552
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,000
because people will ask you questions.
553
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,640
I remember I gave a talk last year,
554
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,200
this was my Barbie theme talk,
555
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,720
which was on the basics of authentication and authorization.
556
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,000
So just identity security in general.
557
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,920
And someone asked me about Paskis and I was like,
558
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:17,760
uh.
559
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,720
And that's not the position you want to be in,
560
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,960
but those things are really good for me
561
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,640
as a person who has like really,
562
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,040
I have a really hard time with being like motivated
563
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,280
on my own, knowing that people are going to ask me questions,
564
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,280
knowing that people are going to expect certain answers
565
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,160
from me, certain information from me,
566
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,480
forces me to like actually know my stuff, do the research.
567
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,560
And then also building projects around these things
568
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,720
is super, super helpful because it's kind of like,
569
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,120
I imagine in my head that it's like driving, right?
570
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,640
So like you can, there are tons of videos on YouTube
571
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,880
that will teach you how to drive,
572
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,120
but it's nothing like actually being in the driver's seat.
573
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,120
Like you can watch a million of these videos
574
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,920
and then if you go and try to take your driver's test,
575
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,400
you're going to fail.
576
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,720
If you don't actually get that practice.
577
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,360
So same goes with like coding.
578
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:04,560
Like you can read conceptually about these things
579
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,960
as much as you want to,
580
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,560
but like actually building the stuff,
581
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,440
actually having to implement it helps so much
582
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,680
with knowing like what actually goes on,
583
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,960
how these things actually apply when you're doing the work.
584
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,360
So I try to do that as well.
585
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,040
These two things kind of help me know my stuff reasonably.
586
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,700
I'm still, there's still gaps here and there,
587
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,000
but like it definitely helps.
588
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:25,820
Totally.
589
00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:29,360
Having that talk hang over your head in the future
590
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,720
feels like that's the only way I'm going to study this
591
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,480
to the level that I need to.
592
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,440
So I think that's great advice for everyone.
593
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,280
Literally, literally.
594
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,400
And I've started to like pair the two together.
595
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,080
So most of my talks now will be based off of a demo.
596
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,140
So that forces me to also build a project.
597
00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:47,320
So like yesterday I live streamed
598
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,720
building this Beyonce website because I'm like,
599
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,880
I have to give this talk in two weeks.
600
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,040
This has to be done by the end of the week.
601
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,360
So it's like forcing me to actually like get the work done,
602
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:00,320
which for me is extremely motivating
603
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,960
and it really helps me a lot.
604
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,440
Yeah, I love that.
605
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,360
Yeah, doing those live streams
606
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,600
or talking at a meetup or something,
607
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,160
it's like a deadline before the deadline
608
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,560
so that you don't hang yourself out to dry.
609
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,360
Not that I've done that before.
610
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,160
Been like, oh no, this is so bad.
611
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,120
But yeah, very stressful overall.
612
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,000
Yeah.
613
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,560
So something I think that you have done a great job
614
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,560
at among many things is you've talked about
615
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,760
how networking has helped your career,
616
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,040
like getting you into jobs that you,
617
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,600
yeah, like you have this marketing background
618
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,960
and networking skills and social media skills.
619
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,720
How has that been important and how have you done that?
620
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,440
What advice would you give people on that?
621
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,000
That has literally carried me throughout my career.
622
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,920
And I suspect that it will continue to do so
623
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,880
for however long I stay in the tech industry.
624
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,720
And I have to say this,
625
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,840
especially with there being so many layoffs
626
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,520
and things like that,
627
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,320
the thing that's gonna make the difference between you
628
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,480
and the million other candidates
629
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,600
is the people you know and you build relationships with.
630
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,720
And I don't wanna frame this in a way that is very,
631
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,840
oh, you're using people
632
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,160
and you just wanna get something out of them.
633
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,120
It's genuinely building relationships.
634
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,800
So it's not a one-way street.
635
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,280
I'm not always going to people asking them for things.
636
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,000
It's genuinely caring about them
637
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,480
and wanting to see them progress
638
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,120
and then they reciprocate that.
639
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,080
So when I need help, they're there.
640
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,040
When they need help, I show up when I can
641
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,040
or when it makes sense or when I can offer resources.
642
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,520
I do whatever I can to help.
643
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,360
And that helps so much in so many ways.
644
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:45,520
It helps with finding jobs.
645
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,080
It helps with getting advice.
646
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,080
And it also just makes things genuinely more fulfilling.
647
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,640
Like we are social creatures, you know?
648
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,920
And I'm also a very extroverted person anyway.
649
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,280
And so because I got started in the tech industry
650
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,800
during the pandemic,
651
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,640
when there were really no in-person meetups going on,
652
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,120
and even now post, or not post pandemic,
653
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:07,640
but in a new phase of the pandemic
654
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,240
when things are starting up again,
655
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,440
there aren't as many in-person opportunities,
656
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,120
especially when we talk about small meetups
657
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,200
and organizing like that.
658
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,920
Using platforms like Twitter and TikTok and LinkedIn
659
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,520
have been invaluable for me
660
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,160
because it's allowed me to create a community
661
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,840
that's so much broader than the city that I live in.
662
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,840
And so I kind of like,
663
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,320
because I had that marketing background,
664
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,400
initially I was really just sharing in public,
665
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,680
just broadly broadcasting the work that I was doing,
666
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,120
what I was learning.
667
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,280
I didn't really intentionally try to build relationships.
668
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,920
It just kind of happened
669
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,400
because I think people noticed
670
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,400
that I was trying really hard to learn in public
671
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,760
and I was asking for help with things.
672
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,560
I would ask questions all the time
673
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,560
because I was confused and learning on my own.
674
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,200
So I didn't have an instructor or a classmate
675
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,280
that I could lean on,
676
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,000
so I would just ask the internet.
677
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,720
And so I think when people notice that,
678
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,080
they start to be really kind to me.
679
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,080
And at first I was like, what's going on?
680
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,640
Like, what's happening?
681
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,440
Like you're always told that the internet is so toxic.
682
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,720
In a lot of ways it is,
683
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,000
but there are also some really great people there.
684
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,520
And so when you find the good people, you stick by them.
685
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,640
And then what happens is like,
686
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,560
because they're kind to you,
687
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,200
of course you wanna reciprocate that.
688
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,240
So when they share things, I reshare
689
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,040
and I cheer them on and all those kinds of things.
690
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,360
There are so many people that now
691
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,040
that I've been able to go to conferences
692
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,520
as far as my job, I've met up with,
693
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,920
and we've talked and known each other
694
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,200
for like years now at this point.
695
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,040
And I get to support them when they give talks
696
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:41,960
and they get to support me.
697
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,560
And it's a really, really great feeling.
698
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,440
And like I said, I think it really makes
699
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,200
being in the tech industry feel so much more fulfilling
700
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,560
because there's a lot of craziness that happens here,
701
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,120
especially when you are of an underrepresented minority.
702
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,400
Like it can feel very lonely and things can get tough,
703
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,160
but having that like community by your side
704
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,080
has been so helpful.
705
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,760
Like there have been times when I'm like,
706
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,320
you guys, what should I ask for as far as,
707
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,040
you know, salary negotiation goes,
708
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,480
negotiation goes and stuff like that.
709
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,280
And they've been like so helpful.
710
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,960
So yeah, the thing I would recommend for people
711
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,600
is to genuinely pursue relationship building.
712
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,680
And it doesn't have to be anything too intense.
713
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,920
Like you don't have to like be, you know,
714
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,440
badgering people in their DMs,
715
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,640
but like share publicly and then support other people.
716
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,760
And people will reciprocate.
717
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,800
People will see that like you're putting in the work
718
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,120
and you're putting in the effort.
719
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,480
And that you're also trying hard to build
720
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,960
those relationships and build that community.
721
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,600
Because surprisingly like, or maybe not surprisingly,
722
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,600
but like in the tech industry,
723
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,240
a lot of people are lacking that community value.
724
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,440
And a lot of people are lacking like the soft skills
725
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,040
that usually come along with it.
726
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,680
And so that really makes you stand out.
727
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,160
So it helps you in the community in more than one way.
728
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,000
So yeah.
729
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,920
Yeah, and I think you're so genuine
730
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,480
about all of your interactions too.
731
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,800
I know sometimes people think of networking
732
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,080
as this like sketchy sales guy type vibe that they,
733
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,080
that's not it.
734
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Like I think you've done such an amazing job
735
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,360
of supporting other people.
736
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,360
And yeah, I'm so glad that that's created
737
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,920
a nice community for you too.
738
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,680
That is very obvious.
739
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:17,840
That's really cool.
740
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,680
It's really nice.
741
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,720
And like, honestly, I don't like half the time,
742
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,880
I'm not even like trying to get things out of,
743
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:24,720
like not half the time.
744
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Most of the time I'm not like trying to get anything
745
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:27,280
out of anybody.
746
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,840
It's just genuinely caring about someone.
747
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,040
And it's really that simple.
748
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,480
Being interested in what people are working on,
749
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,320
where they have worked,
750
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,080
what has gotten them this far in their career,
751
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:36,920
all that kind of stuff.
752
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,600
Like go so far to the point where you don't really need
753
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,400
to be looking to get anything out of people.
754
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,560
Like they'll willingly give to you, you know?
755
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,120
So I really, and I'm also just not like,
756
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,320
I'm not very good at faking.
757
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,320
I don't have a poker face.
758
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,480
I'm not a good liar or anything.
759
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,000
So I can't like be like,
760
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000
if I try to like code to somebody with ulterior motives,
761
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,200
I would be like, hi, and be so obvious with it
762
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,680
that it would like ruin everything.
763
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,960
So I can't do anything if not genuinely
764
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,200
and authentically anyway.
765
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,960
So yeah.
766
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:07,800
Totally.
767
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,680
Even if you tried, you couldn't do it yet.
768
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,560
I would not have gotten this far if I was faking it y'all.
769
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,120
Like it would not work.
770
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,240
That's amazing.
771
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,400
I think the question or the comment you made
772
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,400
about asking about salary things and negotiation there too,
773
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,560
that's something that people, I feel like,
774
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,040
struggle to talk about with other people.
775
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,040
And that's really good intel that you can get about like,
776
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,880
what are people charging?
777
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,000
What are people getting for their salary?
778
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,080
Like for me, that's been like,
779
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,440
I've asked a few people and I'm like,
780
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,120
oh, I'm really undercutting myself.
781
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,200
And like that's life-changing information
782
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,040
that you can just ask.
783
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,720
Maybe they won't always tell you, but oftentimes they do.
784
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,160
Yeah, I usually, I remember one time I was,
785
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,200
this was the first keynote talk that I gave
786
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,360
and they were like, okay, name your price.
787
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,360
And I was like, what?
788
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,440
Like, whoa, whoa, I was totally unprepared for that.
789
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,760
Like what's going on?
790
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,880
And so I like quickly sent out a tweet in panic,
791
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,880
like, hey, does anyone have any insights around this?
792
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,040
And like, can DM me and we can have a conversation.
793
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,720
And literally, I think that the prices that people told me
794
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,160
were like 10 times what I was gonna ask for, literally.
795
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,280
Like I was going to so deeply undercharge.
796
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,720
Like, and the same thing happens with salary negotiation.
797
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:27,840
And again, these are like,
798
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,560
these are topics that people don't really wanna talk about
799
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,920
and understandably so.
800
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,000
Like I get that a lot of people wanna keep like money
801
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,920
matters private and everything like that,
802
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,640
but it's totally worth asking about those things
803
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,480
because I know for myself,
804
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,680
like money was not talked about growing up.
805
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,000
I didn't grow up with a lot of money.
806
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,760
So my standards of like what the value for my work is
807
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,400
are like much lower than what they probably should be.
808
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,800
So getting like a second, third and fourth opinion
809
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,320
has been so, so, so incredibly helpful.
810
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,720
And the thing is like,
811
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,760
you'll hear the numbers that people ask for
812
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,640
and you're like, Lord, I could never.
813
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,440
And then you shoot your shot and they're like, okay, fine.
814
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,960
That's the craziest part is when they're like,
815
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,400
oh yeah, we can totally do that.
816
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,080
And you're like, whoa, this is so amazing and scary
817
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,680
and what's going on.
818
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,720
But yeah, definitely like I'll ask questions about salary.
819
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,040
I've asked about like how to handle managerial changes,
820
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,320
organizational changes, all that kind of stuff,
821
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,840
how to handle interviewing, everything.
822
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,840
I'll ask you about anything
823
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,120
because a lot of times other people are asking
824
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,360
the same questions they might be
825
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120
or thinking the same questions I might be too scared to ask.
826
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,080
So if I put it out there, it'll help them as well.
827
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,720
And it helps me a lot because I don't,
828
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,920
I'm not coming from a background where like
829
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,880
people know these things or teach these things.
830
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,560
My parents didn't like, you know,
831
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,720
really have careers like this.
832
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,440
So it's not like a norm for me.
833
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,880
And I think that's how it is for a lot of people, honestly.
834
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,760
So I don't know and it's like,
835
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,940
I don't wanna keep not knowing.
836
00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:57,320
It's really important for me to like,
837
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,560
to progress in my career,
838
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,120
to know some of these things that come with navigating
839
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,160
in the tech industry.
840
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,600
And so I ask and I think everybody should.
841
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,400
And it is scary, but you learn so much from doing that.
842
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,400
And it definitely, definitely makes a huge difference.
843
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,240
Yeah, that's such good advice.
844
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,880
You learn so much and you're also like,
845
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,380
it saves you so much time
846
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:20,220
because if you set your salary at a certain level,
847
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:23,240
then that's with you for as long as you're at that job,
848
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,240
which could be a long time.
849
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,320
So, yeah.
850
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,280
Yeah.
851
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,120
I love that.
852
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,480
What other questions should I ask?
853
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,800
It's a wealth of information.
854
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,680
I wanted to ask a little bit about,
855
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,160
so you tweet and talk quite a bit
856
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,880
about self-care, mental health.
857
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,020
I think it's amazing that you do
858
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:50,000
because it is so helpful to so many people
859
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,520
to the degree that you want to talk about it.
860
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,400
How and why did you start to talk about those things
861
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,820
more publicly?
862
00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:00,920
Well, for the longest, I struggled with mental health
863
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,160
and didn't know that I was struggling.
864
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,120
I just thought I was crazy.
865
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,300
I just thought there was like something
866
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:07,280
deeply wrong with me because people don't talk about it.
867
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,320
So I didn't really know what was showing up.
868
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,480
So earlier when I talked about how I got to the job
869
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,520
I'm at now, I did mention a few times
870
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,540
that I was unknowingly navigating my career
871
00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:18,840
with like deep depression and just didn't know.
872
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,700
And so that kind of made me feel super isolated.
873
00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:24,220
And again, I didn't know what was going on.
874
00:34:24,220 --> 00:34:25,620
I just thought it was something wrong with me.
875
00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:26,700
Maybe I don't belong here.
876
00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:28,420
Maybe I like shouldn't have even tried
877
00:34:28,420 --> 00:34:29,420
to get into the tech industry.
878
00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:31,300
Like I was thinking all these things
879
00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:32,920
and I had no answers for them
880
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,580
and I didn't know where to turn to.
881
00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:37,380
It just so happened that I had gone through
882
00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:40,580
some really rough things in 2022.
883
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:43,100
And I had at my current job,
884
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:45,720
my first manager at Auth0,
885
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:47,620
I was telling him some of the things that were going on
886
00:34:47,620 --> 00:34:49,380
and I was just like, but it's fine.
887
00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:50,580
I think I'll be able to deal with,
888
00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:51,620
I think I should be okay
889
00:34:51,620 --> 00:34:53,480
just because that's what your default is.
890
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,100
I'll figure it out.
891
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:56,380
And he kind of was like,
892
00:34:56,380 --> 00:34:58,880
I think you should try talking to a therapist.
893
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,780
And now when I heard that I was like, what?
894
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,200
Because I come from a background where therapy,
895
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,540
seeing a psychiatrist, all those things are super taboo.
896
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:07,700
It's like, oh, I'm not crazy.
897
00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:09,660
I don't know why you're telling me to do that.
898
00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:11,820
But I took his advice because I'm the kind of person
899
00:35:11,820 --> 00:35:13,420
where if someone I trust gives me advice
900
00:35:13,420 --> 00:35:15,240
I'm at least gonna consider it
901
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,300
because I know how far it's gotten me in my career
902
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:18,140
and just life in general.
903
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:19,540
So I decided to see a therapist
904
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:21,740
and that kind of started me on my journey
905
00:35:21,740 --> 00:35:23,420
of getting like several diagnoses.
906
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:26,460
So I was diagnosed with depression,
907
00:35:26,460 --> 00:35:29,380
which I since have pretty much stabilized.
908
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:33,540
I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder,
909
00:35:33,540 --> 00:35:36,620
PTSD and also ADHD.
910
00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:41,460
So what happens a lot of times with these illnesses
911
00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:43,880
is that they kind of feed into each other.
912
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,380
So when one is kind of flaring up,
913
00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:48,220
the rest of them kind of start to go a little bit crazy too.
914
00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:52,780
And so again, like I said, I feel like I felt so alone
915
00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:53,740
when I knew all these,
916
00:35:53,740 --> 00:35:55,460
when I was learning all this stuff about myself
917
00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:56,660
and I didn't know what to do.
918
00:35:56,660 --> 00:35:58,700
And sometimes on social media,
919
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:00,940
you give a very one-sided view of yourself.
920
00:36:00,940 --> 00:36:01,860
Everything looks good.
921
00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:02,940
People share the promotions.
922
00:36:02,940 --> 00:36:04,960
They share when they give their first talk
923
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:05,900
and all these kind of great things.
924
00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,020
And I think we should still share those things.
925
00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:09,260
But I kept thinking to myself
926
00:36:09,260 --> 00:36:11,500
as I would see people talk about these things,
927
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:12,460
I don't belong here.
928
00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:13,540
I'm dealing with all this stuff
929
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:14,900
and nobody else is dealing with it.
930
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:16,300
I shouldn't be here.
931
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:18,340
And so once I started to get treatment
932
00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:19,740
and I took medical leave and everything,
933
00:36:19,740 --> 00:36:23,100
when I came back, I was determined to share
934
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:26,420
as much as I felt was good to share with the community
935
00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:28,940
because this shouldn't be our best kept secret.
936
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:31,180
I have a talk where I talk about the power of community
937
00:36:31,180 --> 00:36:34,420
where I discuss how I went through that depression
938
00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:35,520
and the thing that got me through
939
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,380
was a community that I had built.
940
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:40,460
And so with the pandemic and everything
941
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:42,300
and then people go through so much
942
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,460
that we just don't even know about childhood otherwise,
943
00:36:45,460 --> 00:36:49,100
so much happens that everybody pretty much
944
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:51,020
is dealing with something when it comes to mental health.
945
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:52,380
And I think it should be normalized.
946
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:56,660
Now, I don't think that you should sacrifice your privacy,
947
00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:58,820
but it doesn't hurt to let people know.
948
00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:01,340
I've tweeted before, like, hey, if you guys have any tips
949
00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:03,780
for dealing with ADHD, let me know.
950
00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:05,960
I'm taking a break because I'm having a rough patch
951
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,900
with PTSD.
952
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:08,840
I'll let people know these things
953
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,540
because I like to, like I said,
954
00:37:10,540 --> 00:37:12,300
I like to show up authentically
955
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:16,340
when I'm doing my work and my content.
956
00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:18,820
And so that is a part of who I am.
957
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:21,840
And if people want to look at the work that I'm doing
958
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,260
and follow along what I'm doing, that's a big part of it too.
959
00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:27,160
And I hope that people see it and feel a little less unknown
960
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,500
if they're dealing with the same thing
961
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:30,640
or if in the future they deal with similar things,
962
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,340
they can kind of know that other people have too.
963
00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:35,700
So that's kind of my thought process
964
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,260
because I'm always like, when I was at my lowest,
965
00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:40,100
I wish that someone had shared these things.
966
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:42,340
And so I kind of think about what me in the past needed
967
00:37:42,340 --> 00:37:45,060
and try to like provide those things when I can.
968
00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:46,060
Totally.
969
00:37:46,060 --> 00:37:47,660
Well, I think that's amazing that you have
970
00:37:47,660 --> 00:37:51,660
and countless people have been helped by that, I'm sure,
971
00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:55,260
because there's such a taboo against speaking about it,
972
00:37:55,260 --> 00:38:00,260
especially for like in a work type setting,
973
00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:03,420
but everything in your mental health
974
00:38:03,420 --> 00:38:08,180
is what your work and quality of work rests on, right?
975
00:38:08,180 --> 00:38:12,660
So like you can't do your best anything
976
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:14,540
if you're struggling like that.
977
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:16,380
Yeah, and the two are intertwined.
978
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:18,180
Like I can't like leave that at home
979
00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:19,700
when I show up at work, you know?
980
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:22,620
So I feel like figure it's worth sharing when it makes sense.
981
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:25,180
Of course, like keep track of your privacy
982
00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:27,980
and protect all that as well, but yeah.
983
00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:31,660
Yeah, and having, that puts you kind of in control
984
00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:33,500
of that too, like what you wanna speak about,
985
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:34,740
which is awesome.
986
00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:38,900
So your manager kind of talked about
987
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:40,380
the idea of therapy with you,
988
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:42,780
and that seems like a big deal,
989
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:46,060
a big catalyst for getting some help.
990
00:38:46,060 --> 00:38:51,060
How do you think you, what would you recommend to managers
991
00:38:51,180 --> 00:38:54,620
or people who are leading teams
992
00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:57,660
to support the mental health of their workers?
993
00:38:58,620 --> 00:39:00,620
That's a really, really good question.
994
00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:03,620
I think first and foremost is being like a listening ear
995
00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:05,740
in a safe space, like really establishing
996
00:39:05,740 --> 00:39:09,700
that it is safe for your people you manage
997
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:12,380
to like talk to you about what they're going through,
998
00:39:12,380 --> 00:39:15,020
and then accommodating when you can
999
00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:16,980
and making the best suggestions when you can.
1000
00:39:16,980 --> 00:39:18,260
So like my manager was the person
1001
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:19,500
who told me to pursue therapy.
1002
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:20,740
My manager was the person who told me
1003
00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:22,620
to pursue medical leave because I really needed it
1004
00:39:22,620 --> 00:39:24,540
at the time, and those are things
1005
00:39:24,540 --> 00:39:27,580
that I never would have thought of myself.
1006
00:39:27,580 --> 00:39:29,980
And so having that support was like invaluable,
1007
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:33,300
and I think that like managers need to open up
1008
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,820
that it's a safe space for them to,
1009
00:39:35,820 --> 00:39:37,940
you know, people they manage to talk about those things,
1010
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:42,380
and also know like what accommodations does the company
1011
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:45,020
you work for offer so that you can offer those as options
1012
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:46,980
for the people you manage.
1013
00:39:46,980 --> 00:39:50,020
Another thing is to also make sure that as a manager,
1014
00:39:50,020 --> 00:39:51,620
you take care of yourself.
1015
00:39:51,620 --> 00:39:55,740
So managers are carrying a lot of weight.
1016
00:39:55,740 --> 00:39:58,460
They have to manage all kinds of like responsibilities
1017
00:39:58,460 --> 00:40:00,580
and answer to like higher ups and stuff,
1018
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:02,700
and they also have to carry the burden sometimes
1019
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:04,940
of what their employees are going through.
1020
00:40:04,940 --> 00:40:07,980
So you have to like make sure you pour into yourself.
1021
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:10,420
And that was one of the reasons why I trusted my manager
1022
00:40:10,420 --> 00:40:13,820
because my manager also takes care of his mental health
1023
00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:15,140
and kept track of all those things.
1024
00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:17,260
So it made me feel more comfortable doing so,
1025
00:40:17,260 --> 00:40:19,900
because the last thing I would wanna do,
1026
00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:21,380
and I feel like a lot of people are like this,
1027
00:40:21,380 --> 00:40:25,340
is burden somebody who's not getting refilled in any way.
1028
00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:27,900
So make sure to like also prioritize those things,
1029
00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:30,540
and when you feel comfortable, open up about those things
1030
00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:32,740
with your employees as well,
1031
00:40:32,740 --> 00:40:34,380
because there's nothing like being able
1032
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:35,220
to relate to somebody.
1033
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:36,380
If you know someone,
1034
00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:39,180
if you know your manager is neurodivergent and you are too,
1035
00:40:39,180 --> 00:40:40,220
that's like a great thing
1036
00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:41,580
that makes you feel so much more comfortable.
1037
00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:42,740
If you know your manager has dealt
1038
00:40:42,740 --> 00:40:44,340
with any kind of mental health thing,
1039
00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:46,340
you feel so much more comfortable sharing
1040
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:48,260
your own like situations.
1041
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:49,940
And that doesn't mean you have to like trauma dump
1042
00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:52,660
and like put all your business out there,
1043
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:53,900
anything like that.
1044
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:56,420
But again, to the degree that you feel comfortable with,
1045
00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:58,140
like it can be really, really helpful.
1046
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:59,940
So like being relatable and making sure
1047
00:40:59,940 --> 00:41:01,100
that it's a safe space and making sure
1048
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:02,700
to take care of yourself too,
1049
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,380
are really things that for me like made a huge difference
1050
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:08,020
in me feeling comfortable with my manager.
1051
00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:09,140
Yeah, I love that.
1052
00:41:09,140 --> 00:41:12,940
I think there's, yeah, we have to talk about this stuff
1053
00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:16,820
because it doesn't do any good to you as a person
1054
00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:19,700
or your team to just lock it all in your body.
1055
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:20,700
That's what I tend to do.
1056
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:23,620
Just like lock it in there somewhere, not let it out.
1057
00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:25,380
And letting it out feels better.
1058
00:41:25,380 --> 00:41:26,340
Yeah.
1059
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:29,140
I like, I can't hold it in if I want to.
1060
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:31,900
This is why I say I can't help but be like an authentic,
1061
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:33,580
like genuine person.
1062
00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:35,460
It's not really that I'm trying to be authentic.
1063
00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:37,060
I don't know how to be any other way.
1064
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:39,580
So I like have to like kind of like,
1065
00:41:39,580 --> 00:41:42,900
the emotions will just start overflowing after a while.
1066
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:45,060
But I definitely feel more comfortable
1067
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:46,940
letting that overflow happen sometimes
1068
00:41:46,940 --> 00:41:49,660
if someone else is also willing to share in return.
1069
00:41:49,660 --> 00:41:50,740
So yeah.
1070
00:41:50,740 --> 00:41:52,460
Totally, that's so funny.
1071
00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:56,140
An introvert and an extrovert talking on this podcast today,
1072
00:41:56,140 --> 00:41:59,140
just dealing with stuff in their own way.
1073
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:01,580
That's so funny.
1074
00:42:01,580 --> 00:42:06,580
So is there anything that you're excited about tech-wise
1075
00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:08,900
or otherwise that you might want to recommend
1076
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:11,820
or things you're looking into at the moment?
1077
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:13,300
Anything I'm excited about?
1078
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:17,580
Well, I am excited about my Beyonce talk.
1079
00:42:18,820 --> 00:42:21,180
I'm very excited about that.
1080
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:23,820
I'm excited to see how my little application goes.
1081
00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:25,980
And I'm also excited because this is going to be
1082
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:27,220
one of the first projects I've built
1083
00:42:27,220 --> 00:42:28,580
that will be very design heavy
1084
00:42:28,580 --> 00:42:31,340
because I'm not a designer by any means.
1085
00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:33,620
But I'm gonna try to like work on my design chops
1086
00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:35,740
with this project as well.
1087
00:42:35,740 --> 00:42:38,220
I'm also excited about like kind of figuring out what my,
1088
00:42:38,220 --> 00:42:40,620
I try to choose something new every year to like learn.
1089
00:42:40,620 --> 00:42:44,020
So last year I got really into Next.js
1090
00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:45,580
and I'm thinking this year
1091
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:47,340
it's either gonna be Python or TypeScript.
1092
00:42:47,340 --> 00:42:49,020
Those are the two that I'm kind of choosing between.
1093
00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:50,780
But I'm excited about like getting into that.
1094
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:53,860
I'm also really excited about creating more content
1095
00:42:53,860 --> 00:42:56,100
on TikTok and live streaming
1096
00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:58,620
because surprisingly I really enjoy doing both
1097
00:42:58,620 --> 00:42:59,780
which I thought I would hate.
1098
00:42:59,780 --> 00:43:03,300
So I'm excited to see how far I can go with both platforms.
1099
00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:06,500
That's fun when you start liking something
1100
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:07,340
you thought you would hate.
1101
00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:08,820
How cool.
1102
00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:12,120
Yeah, how has TikTok been for you as a creator?
1103
00:43:13,060 --> 00:43:14,700
So it's been very interesting.
1104
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:16,060
It's been surprisingly positive.
1105
00:43:16,060 --> 00:43:18,260
I felt like people were gonna be like dogging me
1106
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:20,780
in my comments, but people have been really nice.
1107
00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:21,900
Yeah.
1108
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:23,820
There's like, there's a nice little group
1109
00:43:23,820 --> 00:43:25,620
of tech content creators who are there
1110
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:26,980
who are really supportive of each other,
1111
00:43:26,980 --> 00:43:28,500
which I really like.
1112
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:29,780
I still don't really understand
1113
00:43:29,780 --> 00:43:31,780
how the TikTok algorithm works,
1114
00:43:31,780 --> 00:43:35,000
but it is a great place to like educate
1115
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,620
in a way that's like authentic and genuine.
1116
00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:40,580
And also if you have any technical like information
1117
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:43,180
you wanna share with people who are non-technical,
1118
00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:44,920
like it's a great platform for that as well.
1119
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:45,800
So like I said earlier,
1120
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,740
I've shared a lot of identity security tips there
1121
00:43:48,740 --> 00:43:51,060
for everyone, not just technical people.
1122
00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:52,420
So it's a great place for stuff like that.
1123
00:43:52,420 --> 00:43:54,180
So, so far so good.
1124
00:43:54,180 --> 00:43:55,340
I like it.
1125
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:56,180
Well, how cool.
1126
00:43:57,060 --> 00:44:00,900
I will link to all of those good things in the notes,
1127
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:04,220
but is there anything you wanna promote, shout out?
1128
00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:06,020
I know that Beyonce Talk is coming,
1129
00:44:06,020 --> 00:44:07,900
so everyone will love that
1130
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:11,340
when it starts touring around the circuit.
1131
00:44:12,380 --> 00:44:13,220
As of right now,
1132
00:44:13,220 --> 00:44:14,460
there's nothing else that is like coming to mind.
1133
00:44:14,460 --> 00:44:15,300
Cool.
1134
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:16,720
That's amazing.
1135
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:18,220
Well, thank you so much, Ceora.
1136
00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:20,460
I think you're incredible.
1137
00:44:20,460 --> 00:44:23,620
I am like an old woman,
1138
00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:25,420
but I look up to you so much.
1139
00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:27,980
And I think you're so cool.
1140
00:44:27,980 --> 00:44:30,660
And I'm glad that we had the time to talk today
1141
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:34,820
and follow her on all the places
1142
00:44:34,820 --> 00:44:38,780
and we will see you next time on The Last Tech Podcast.
1143
00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:39,940
Thanks Ceora.
1144
00:44:39,940 --> 00:44:40,780
See ya.
1145
00:44:40,780 --> 00:44:48,780
The Last Tech Podcast.