#191: Rigid Structure vs. Unschooling: What a Homeschool Grad Chose for Her Own Kids

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I didn't plan to homeschool.
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I started asking hard questions, realized how little control parents actually have, and made the hard decision to leave a government job to homeschool my kids.
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Now I interview other homeschooling parents to learn how this all works.
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I'm Cheryl, and this is the Homeschool How to Podcast.
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Let's learn this together.
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Before we jump in, I just want to say something.
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Today we're talking to Luke and Liz.
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Now, Liz was homeschooled herself, and she definitely homeschools her kids the more traditional way.
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She's structured, she runs a schedule, she protects her teaching time like nobody's business.
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And that might scare some of you, and it's definitely not how I homeschool either.
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But I've had plenty of unschoolers on this show, and I think it is just as important to hear from the other side.
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Talking with Liz made me wonder, is there room for a little bit more structure in my house?
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Would my kids benefit from it?
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We can go too far in either direction.
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Hearing both sides is how you figure out what's right for your family, what's right for your kids' style of learning.
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And I am definitely excited to use their curriculum for how to teach kids to grow food.
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It's gonna be really fun, especially as the winter months come and we are looking forward to spring.
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Now, even if you unschool, you're still teaching your kids, you're just doing it a little bit differently.
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So if you're wondering whether your kids are learning what they need to know or whether you're forgetting something, that's exactly why I put together my guide, What Do I Actually Teach?
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It shows you what kids in school are covering and different ways that you can cover it at home.
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So you can pick and choose what actually works for you guys and what's important to you.
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And it's a kind of peace of mind that you're staying on track.
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The link is in the show notes, or you can head on over to the homeschoolhow.com.
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All right, let's chat with Luke and Liz.
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Welcome.
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And with us today, I have Liz and Luke Hammond.
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Welcome, guys.
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Hey, thank you.
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Excited to be here.
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Yeah, thank you guys for meeting with me.
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Now, you guys, how many kids do you have?
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Four kiddos.
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What are their ages?
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Um, 11, 10, 8, and 4.
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Oh, that's fun.
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That's fun.
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The oldest is a boy, and then the three younger ones are girls.
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So that's so cool.
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And what got you guys into the homeschooling realm?
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Did you always know that you wanted to homeschool?
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I was actually homeschooled.
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I'm one of those uncool kids from the 90s, you know, like the really high water pants that didn't go all the way to your ankle in a very uncool way.
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Stood out like a sore thumb, you know, the ones that everybody said are never gonna amount to anything because they have no social skills.
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Yeah, I was um from a family of eight that were homeschooled.
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So I grew up very much on the outside of culture and resented my parents for it as a teenager and thought this is you guys are doing me a disservice.
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I'm not gonna be able to um figure out my place in the world.
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So I knew from the time I was 12 I want to go to college.
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I want to get a degree.
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I actually want to walk across the stage and feel like a legit student.
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So I decided at 12 I needed a degree and pursued it.
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And my parents, with all the faith of giants, it's amazing, drove me 18 hours away and dropped me off at a private Christian school that we had gotten me into.
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I played volleyball for the local high schools in Arizona because you were allowed to as homeschoolers.
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And I actually made the college team with a full as max scholarship I could at that private school.
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I played college volleyball as a homeschooler and came into school thinking I have no idea how I'm gonna do this.
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I don't know.
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I was stressed about where am I gonna find my classes and all of these things that normal, normal public school kids don't have to worry about.
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But man, I'll tell you, I got in and within a first few weeks, I was like, this is awesome.
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This is amazing.
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I have different teachers for everything, and I loved it.
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I fell in love with learning, um, probably for the first time.
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I had always gotten through my school.
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Um, my parents really drove hard on work ethic, on discipline, but I didn't know where I stood with any any of my peers and thought that that was a disadvantage.
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And I learned pretty quickly it was not at all.
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And so I actually converted to the idea that homeschooling probably is the best by going out and attending college as a homeschool kid and learning what the rest of the education system looks like.
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I thought I was gonna be a teacher actually, and within one semester of college, going to schools and shadowing, I was like, absolutely not.
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Like this is this is like watching little Nazi soldiers being made.
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They're marching around, they're just there's no how to think, there's only what to think.
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And I was immediately appalled by that.
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So I switched majors to psychology.
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I wanted to be on the front lines of being able to actually help families.
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So after college, I went into counseling, mental health, and was working with high needs case cases with kiddos, and then I got my master's degree and went into investigations with the Department of Child Safety.
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And then the same year I got my master's degree and was ready to climb ladders and move to the next level.
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They were creating a job for me potentially through the court system that they wanted me to take.
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And I had my son, and I looked at this little baby and went, with everything I know about children, there is no way I can do that.
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And so I quit.
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So I am a stay-at-home mom with a master's degree, and I've homeschooled the kids since day one and led them through very, very much devoted to the idea of we're gonna learn how to think.
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We're gonna use curriculum, we're gonna use structure.
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I'm actually probably a more rigid version of a homeschool parrot than a lot of them are, but it's it's more about the structure than it is about what the curriculum is.
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It's the idea that you're going to learn to be disciplined, take this on as your responsibility.
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And it doesn't matter if you think it's gonna be useful or not, you're gonna learn how to think in it.
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And so it's been a journey, and I'll tell you, if if anybody's thinking of transitioning to that, it was not easy.
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And going from having the full-time work, and I'm an intense person, I love challenge, I love working hard, I loved the jobs I did.
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Going from those intense, I was in court all the time, I was working with a bunch of kids, with a bunch of people, to staying at home with my little baby was probably the hardest year of my life.
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Figuring out how to transition into that and and live and find purpose in what I knew in my head was a really great mission, but it did not feel like one in the throes of changing diapers and waiting around for nap time and throwing rocks in the pond for literally hours, even though I knew this was so healthy for his little, you know, six-month-old brain.
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It was mind-numbing for mine.
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So there's a lot of challenge in it.
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But on the other side of transitioning into that and getting into flows and rhythms, I'm so glad I did.
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And I always told myself, I may feel miserable right now, but if I don't do this, I will regret it later because I can always go out and get another job.
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I will never get the chance to raise my kids again.
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So that ultimately has been my lifeline that I still cling to sometimes because we, you know, cut our income in half to do this.
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We were both working and a lot more, a lot more than a lot more than half.
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I was the I was the primary income at that time with the higher degrees.
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It's psychology as a field.
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And so we've gone without that.
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And he's had to make ends meet and we've had to sacrifice.
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At the time when that decision was made, I was in Christian camping.
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And so I was a recreation manager at a camp.
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My degree is Bible and theology youth ministry, and so we were living on camp and when all those decisions were being made.
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So it was like that's a big change to go from dual income no kids to at that time, we were like, actually, we're gonna go one step further and we're gonna go to one income and we're gonna move across the country.
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And get into a home loan for the first time.
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Get into a home loan for the first time, and we ended up buying a farm, and that's kind of where I ended up jumping back into the passion of farming and growing food.
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And and so, like, it looks like it from our story at that time, is like we're we are the the homeschool family that now buys the hobby farm that does this, that was doing all these other things, which is when you start stacking all those things up, it there's a lot against you, like for success.
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I there's a lot of life and there's a lot of good, but and I l I live and work in the like homestead space, the gardening space, the farming space now for multiple different companies, and have been connecting people up with people and all this sort of connection zone.
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And because of that, I get to see all the different homeschool families and this tidal wave into the homestead movement through like post-COVID.
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And I've seen a lot of people in this tidal wave, you know, running back to away from the farm style, away from gardening, away from animals and the 10-acre homestead that they thought they could manage that would be so peaceful, which ensued, you know, total chaos in their life.
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And so I've got to see and witness a ton of that.
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And so I, you know, as she was talking and I was listening through it, and I'm, you know, kind of reliving our our life, hearing her just talk about it, it's really interesting.
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A couple things stand out to me is her childhood growing up as a homeschooler in the 90s with a very smart, rigid her her her mom had a degree in teaching.
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And so there was that classroom schedule, there was that understanding.
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And there's always the tension in the homeschooling community of are my kids gonna be socialized?
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Are they gonna, are they gonna be smart enough?
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Are they gonna have the education that they need?
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And then there's like a polarization in this other side where it's like, well, feral children is the best and completely unschooled is the best.
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And with it, you know, they'll learn to read just by a desire to learn to read.
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And I we're living in a a time where we have no data on any of those.
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We do have pretty successful models from homeschoolers that were homeschooling in the 90s, where those kids that are now grown are very successful, had a better education for the most part than their peers, way better, maybe not at math and science, but they had a way better foundation on reading and writing, uh, you know, broad spectrum, like scope, over over the majority of those who were raised in the 90s.
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I'm wondering what's gonna happen in 10 years with this wave of homeschoolers that had no homeschooling background, because she's the primary homeschooler in our household.
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I was a public school kid.
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My natural tendency would probably lean a little more unschooled because I saw how uh in my mind you can just kind of skate your way through public school.
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Right.
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You don't if you if you're fairly bright and and have any sort of work ethic, you don't have to work that hard in public school.
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Attendance gets you the same results as those who work hard, and that's it's and so that was me.
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Like school was not that challenging all the way up through it.
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I the challenge came from the amount of things that I was signed up for and doing.
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I was the go go go kid.
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I, you know, three sport athlete, all the stuff, you know, live in the youth group, doing all the service project, all the stuff, right?
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And so thinking through okay, us as parents, how are we going to raise our four human beings to be competent, capable adults that can, you know, leave the nest successfully without our continued ongoing support with kids in the basement, you know, living on us.
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What that's not what we want.
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We want them to leave the nest to be successful.
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And what are the things that are going to be the key elements of the way that we raise our kids in order for that to take place?
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Well, and the problem is you don't know.
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Right.
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My parents didn't know.
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You know, they were raising us in a time and all of my cousins, all of our extended family, we were weird.
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We were very weird.
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We didn't fit in anywhere.
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And as a as a kid, I was the middle kid and and highly sensitive to social dynamics.
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I always have been.
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When I walk in a room, I'm not thinking, um, who's here for me or what can I find to do for I'm thinking, what does this room need?
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What kind of person?
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What where's the power balance?
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Who's in charge?
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Um, and so I kind of always thought that way.
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And so growing up on the outside of culture and watching how people behaved, it was almost like it was a constant research experiment for me anytime I'm observing people because I was on the outside.
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And as a going through junior high and high school, that was the tumultuous, I felt like this is the biggest disadvantage, I will never fit in.
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And then as I got older, and especially as I got out into college, I realized that was never the goal and it never should be.
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And everybody, there's so many people raised in a system that only tells you what to think.
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You've got sheep.
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I don't want to be a sheep.
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I'd rather be a sheep dog.
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I'd rather guard and and guide.
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And so as we talked about our kids, he was less inclined to believe that homeschooling is the right way.
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And I I turned out okay.
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I'm fine.
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And I didn't, I was, I was a career, I was working my career and I'm trying to prove something in a way.
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I was the homeschooler that didn't fit the mold.
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And as I got older and got into career fields when I would tell people I was homeschooled, they were always shocked.
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And I loved that because I didn't fit the mold that they had created in their mind of what it meant to be homeschooled.
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They're the socially awkward, gonna you know, live their lives making butter, and that's all they'll ever be.
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And so I loved being able to go into career trenches in a government job and outperform people who were more experienced than me, people who were all the public school kids, and and there was a piece of me that really loved that.
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And I think there is a place for some of that, but in terms of the real back for me was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
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I can do that.
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I could become like this culture anytime I want, but they can't do what I have done.
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They can't see the world the way I have been able to see it.
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And so that's where I became very much as a in my late early to mid-20s, very grateful for what my parents did.
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That they didn't know how it was going to turn out.
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But what they did was give me a chance to opt out and be outside of culture while growing alongside of it so that I can reach in anytime I want and help.
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I can support, I can find a place where my skills are needed, where I can lead, I can follow good things that I find, whatever it is, I can find a role, but I don't have to.
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I don't need the group to know how to make my decisions or to know how to think.
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I can reason, I can ask questions, and that was what was more important to me.
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So for me, homeschooling the kids was less about controlling what they're what curriculum they're being taught.
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It was more about keeping them outside of culture to let them grow up truly in their own selves, truly on their own, at least until about junior high, where they the cement's hardened enough that it can handle some impact.
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Because I do expect them to go out.
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Like Luke's saying, we're not trying to keep babies forever.
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We want to raise adults who can think on their own.
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And so our son, who's gonna be 12 this this fall, is a he's a defiant.
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He is hard on people, he's hard on himself.
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And we struggle constantly with getting him to to find the empathy to realize that not everybody thinks the way you do.
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And he has learned that so many of his peers, all he's gotta do is ask him four layers of the question why, and he'll discover they have no idea where their beliefs come from.
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And primarily public schooled kids, yes, asking.
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Yes, and good kids too.
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I I'm not I'm not even kids that have parents that we love and are our friends, and he will ask them, you know, well, you've got I see you've got all bad guy characters in your Legos here.
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Why is that?
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And he gets these dumbfounded looks.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, I guess I don't have many good guys.
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They don't know.
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And then what comes out is, well, that's you know, my friend at school had this or that they're making decisions like sheep.
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And Lewis is like, why would you have a character in your setup if you don't actually approve of the way they behave?
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My favorite characters are the heroes because that's who I want to be like.
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Why would you be having Darth Vader everywhere in your room?
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You know, and so he'll question and he'll push.
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And it's really frustrating to him that very few kids understand or agults.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And thinking about that too, you know, there is a certain layer of us dripping that in consistently.
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There has to be.
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And and and I think that challenge in the question, you know, there they're he's 12, so he's definitely into Legos, right?
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You know, all the Star Wars Legos, as as many as he can save up for, scrap together, work money, you know, anything he can do to make a buck.
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He's that entrepreneurial spirit like his father now.
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And he has wanted just to f not to like obsess over, but he's wanted a couple of the bad characters to actually have the good and the bad.
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So that you can defeat them with the good guys.
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Right.
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And so we've kind of put in that, you know, every time he wants to get a a a bad character, or we do pump the brakes a little bit and ask him why.
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We challenge him.
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And it's not that we're saying no, we're just challenging him a little bit.
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And I think that challenge has slowed his his um I don't I wouldn't call it like an obsession or anything, like his interest, and it's drawn more into the good over time.
00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:56.000
We're talking consistent years, not just like uh, you know, a week or two or a couple months.
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.000
But we've we've trained him and we've been able to because we have all of that time.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.559
We didn't give away our time as parents, and that's the other big thing for homeschooling.
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.039
It again, it wasn't about I want a specific curriculum or it was I want the time.
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:17.360
I want to own the time that we have with our kids and give them a chance to grow up outside of whatever culture is trying to brainwash them into.
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:25.840
And in the right time, in the right situation, they'll come alongside, they'll drift in and out and we'll support that, but they need to know how to live apart from it.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.919
And I think that's a super crucial piece.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.320
And we want the freedom to make our own decisions about our time and about how to raise our kids.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.440
And when you're chained to a school schedule, you can't always do that.
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:36.080
For sure.
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:40.799
And now with with the four of them and wider variety of ages.
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:48.639
So, how do you that, especially coming up as you know, you were homeschooled, so you have a little bit of background there on how you can make it work.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.519
What do you do to like what does your daily routine look like?
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:59.039
Well, it has gotten easier, and I had supportive friends and relatives tell me when I first started with my little ones.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.759
So my first two are 18 months apart, so they're really close.
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.960
So it was I'm getting ready to teach kindergarten and preschool at the same time.
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:08.160
Um, we're trying to ease into this right in the middle of COVID.
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:14.240
And so that's where that was really what was my final push into homeschooling was yeah, there's no way I'm sending my kid to school in a mask.
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.680
So I guess we're doing this.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:21.279
And so it at first it was just learning as we go and try to teach the alphabet.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:30.240
I didn't really do a set curriculum the first couple years, and we called it more learning time because I didn't want to make it so rigid, especially since my oldest is a boy.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.960
It's harder to get boys typically to enjoy and appreciate things about school.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:40.000
And so trying to make it fun, we did a lot of outside, we would do a lot of it outside, and we were farming.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.400
We were always farming through because we started, we got on our hobby farm when our son was two months old.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.720
We moved him across the country, started homeschooling.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.079
I had quit my job, like all that all at once, and we started growing food.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.680
We started doing the farm lifestyle.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.119
And so we've been doing that along with homeschooling their entire lives.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:58.400
And so that always helps create rhythms for seasons and days.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.440
But now, as they've gotten older, I had friends tell me it takes three years.
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:06.240
So if you're listening and you're in year one or two and you're getting so discouraged, do not give up.
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.599
It takes three years.
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.400
It really does.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.880
And it takes, we've learned the same amount of time, it takes that long to get a farm launched enough.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.759
It takes three years to really settle in when you're doing all of the startup stuff.
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.160
Because essentially, when you're doing homeschooling, that's what you're doing.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.920
You're creating a startup, it's a new business.
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.279
You're becoming a teacher for multiple levels all at the same time.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:33.039
You're learning how to structure this, your kids are learning how to structure it, and you're learning how to balance mom teacher and all the different hats you have to wear at the same time.
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.200
And so it takes a long time.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:42.000
And the worst thing you can do is try a method for five weeks and then switch to a different method, and then try that for five weeks and switch to a different method.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.319
There are so many methods and curriculums and combinations that are wonderful.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:54.880
But the key is not which one, the key is stick with it and stay consistent for a while in whatever rhythms you build into your day in your life.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:56.799
And so I am huge on systems.
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.640
You have to have something bigger than just a plan.
00:18:58.799 --> 00:18:59.920
Plans fall apart all the time.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.400
The things you write down that you want to get done and the timeline that you want to get them done in, they will fall apart.
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.000
But if you have a system that you build, it will work.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.200
So right now, as we're all these years in, we have a system.
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.039
Right now, our our kids are in school.
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.279
There, we have what we call a self-start block.
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:23.519
So after breakfast, we get up, we do chores, we do breakfast, and then at 8:30, they start their self-block and they go over and they work on everything they can do on their own.
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.079
And because they've been doing this for years, they know how it goes.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.680
So they find their writing books and their spelling work, they start writing their spelling words.
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:34.400
If they finish all that and I'm not over it yet, then they'll start their math review page.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.920
They'll pull out that and do their math review page or any reading that's assigned.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:44.400
And since they're in, the older ones are in third, fifth, and sixth now, so they can self-guide and they can do a lot of that on their own.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.799
And the the four-year-old has what we call play block.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:54.160
So she's in play block right now, and it's intentional, deliberate time where toys that were kept in the closet are pulled out so that they're exciting and new.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:20:01.440
And she plays with them in that half an hour so that I can get myself from the morning from all of the chores and breakfast and dishes and all the stuff that we have to do.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:05.039
And I can be in a frame of mind where I can actually go in and teach.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:11.680
And then I go in at nine o'clock and we start into language arts and the more teaching stuff, the stuff where they need instruction.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:13.759
And then we take a break at 10:30.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:16.319
So they've worked for two hours solid, 8:30 to 10:30.
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.000
Then we take a break and we call that garden block.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.599
So we go up, we check on our plants, they run around outside, they have to be outside unless the weather is absolutely terrible.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.279
They have to be outside during the recess.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:30.480
And they run around and play or help me with garden chores, and we'll take a whole hour sometimes to do that.
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:32.720
I leave enough time, and that is another key.
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:34.000
You've got to leave margin.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:38.559
Don't pack things so tight that you set yourself up for failure every single day.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:40.720
So I leave a margin of an hour in that.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.680
Sometimes it only takes half an hour, but if it takes an hour, that's totally fine.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:48.960
And then we start back at either 11 or 11:30 and we do that final block of the morning, which is usually math.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:57.920
We save math for after you've reset yourself when you've already got most things accomplished, so that math doesn't feel like, oh, this is hard, my brain's tired, and I've got all these other things to do after.
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.920
That's why we do math right before lunch.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.400
Some people opt to do it in the morning to start with it.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:09.920
I have found my kids tend to unravel with that because it's it's kickstart, especially the girls, kickstart into math brain is not fun.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:15.119
They would much rather start with reading and writing and ease in, but we have to get it done before lunch.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:23.599
If we don't, then I have found that coming back after lunch and trying to do something that it requires as much brain effort as math is really, really a struggle.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:38.079
And so a lot of it, that has all been me discovering by watching my kids by staying in systems and seeing how they respond over time, not just, oh, we had a bad day, so I'm gonna change the whole system, but watching over time the patterns that I see and then shifting accordingly.
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:45.440
And I learned pretty early on that I cannot do a here's the list of books that you guys have to work in today, and here's all the lesson we have to get done now.
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:45.680
Go.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:54.160
Because I am so efficient and so driven that I'll drive everybody into trying to get all that done in an hour and a half so that we can go do the chores and we can work and get the next.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.400
Maybe we can do more farm work than we were planning today.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.319
Maybe I'm always trying to get the next thing done.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.759
And it was there's no end.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:00.799
There is no end.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.160
And so it became kind of apparent, especially with my oldest.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.079
Um, because your oldest is always the guinea pig.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.160
However old they are, that's how old of a parent you are.
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.960
So your experience is limited to how old they are.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.160
And so he and I have to learn together, honestly, on a lot of things.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.000
And the girls get the benefit of everything that Lewis and I have to figure out.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:28.880
And Lewis, I was starting to see him be so rigid that I had to start putting a limit on you are not allowed to start school until 8:30 because he would get up way early and try to get everything done.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.000
And he's rushing through it.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.559
He I can't even read his writing because he just wants to get done.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.559
And that is a monster that I created.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:41.599
And so I had to dial it back, slow it down, and figure out how to go into a schedule that gave him less stress and less push.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.319
So we created a block schedule where we leave those blocks.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.559
So 8:30 to 9 is self-blocked.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.279
So whatever you can get done, if you finish early, that time is yours.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.200
Then it actually motivates you to work hard.
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.680
And then from 9 to 10:30, mom's teaching.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:05.279
And if it takes all of that time to get through that language arts lesson because it's a new concept and it's hard, and I'm going back and forth between third grade and fifth grade in the preschooler, if it takes the whole time, that's fine because we have protected it.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.160
I put those walls up and we protect that time.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:09.039
Nothing is allowed.
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.160
I don't answer my phone.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:11.440
I don't do anything else.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:16.079
I don't go out with a co-op and do a fun thing because that is our protected time.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:21.359
You have to leave enough protected time or you'll shoot yourself in the foot and your homeschool days will always feel chaotic.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.960
You have to have some normal to deviate from before you start deviating.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.119
So that's my firm belief about homeschooling.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:28.559
It's what I saw work in my home.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:34.319
I do it differently than my mom, but I do believe firmly in some sort of structure for kids, especially when they're younger.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.079
And if you create that when they're younger, they will start to do it on their own when they're older.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.400
If you don't create it when they're younger, then you'll have kids that don't know how to structure themselves when they're older.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.519
They won't self-start.
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:47.519
They won't know how to stay disciplined and know that if I just stay on this, it will get done and be fine.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.119
You'll have to keep leading and guiding like you would a kindergartner when they're in fifth grade.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:57.039
But if you create structure and you stay with it, they will start doing it on their own because kids actually love structure.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.720
And this is from my years in psychology.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.279
Kids actually are asking, where are my boundaries?
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.079
They want to know.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:08.799
The worst thing you can do in trying to help a child who's been through trauma or abuse is be all over the place.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:10.240
They need firm lines.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.799
They need to know where you stand, what's allowed, what's not allowed.
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.039
They need to know that because that helps them know they're safe.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.240
That is super, super important.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.359
They will push and test because they want to know if you're safe.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.400
And if you fall over or you change the rules every time, then you're not safe.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.359
And that same type of idea can be applied to homeschooling.
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.319
If the kids know that if they just whine enough, you'll stop the lesson, they're gonna keep whining.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:36.079
If they know that if they sleep in and say they're tired, you'll let it go and you won't start on time, they're gonna keep doing it.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:41.279
And they won't learn to appreciate when they get to the end of a school day where they had to get up even when they didn't feel like it.
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:43.039
They had to do the lesson they didn't want to do.
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:44.640
They're actually proud of themselves.
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:53.680
They've learned to accomplish something and finish a task, and you're building confidence and you're building a responsibility level in them, they will learn to love that feeling.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.640
And over time, they'll start doing it automatically on their own.
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:58.720
And it's true of multiple personalities.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:00.880
Our son is a self-starter to a fault.
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:02.240
But our girls aren't all that way.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:12.000
And yet they have gotten into rhythms where even if they don't like it, they know how they feel at the end of the day if they don't do their best and if they don't give it what they've got, and they know how they feel when they do.
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:17.680
And so yesterday they were trying to do PE and our eight-year-old hates running, hates running.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.000
But I said, Okay, you've had a cough.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:29.279
So if you want to knock it down to two, you have two laps to run today, but if you want to do one and a half because of your cough, and she and I said, I just but why are you mad now?
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.039
And she said, if I do that, then I'll feel like I didn't do the whole thing.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.480
And so she had to go.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.960
Her conscience bothered her in that.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.519
She knew at the end of that, I'm not gonna feel as good.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.880
And so she went out, and coughing or not, she ran her two laps and she ended with a big smile on her face.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:50.640
So that gets built over time by just staying the course with the systems you design.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.680
And I've had to say no to a ton of things in order to do that.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:56.880
But every no I say is a successful yes somewhere else.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:07.440
And I would rather succeed at this mission that I started than feel like a failure in it and not have the career and not have the second income and all those other things that compound.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.319
If I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna sacrifice everything it takes to do it, then we're gonna do it the best that we possibly can.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:16.480
And you mentioned before, so we wouldn't do a co-op if it falls in those hours.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:18.720
Is that how you've structured it purposely?
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:24.240
Do you feel like, oh, we could have done this co-op, but instead we're gonna stick with our curriculum and book work at home?
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:25.440
Yes, actually.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.359
And I know that's not for everyone.
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:33.680
And I actually am part of a co-op and I get all the invites to all the things, and these moms are super supportive and awesome for each other.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.640
And I love getting the group messages and seeing what they're doing.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.759
But yeah, if it's in the school week, I don't participate.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.799
But because I'm connected to the group, it gives me a chance to reach out individually as I get to know them.
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:49.279
And uh like there's one in the group that has three girls that are kind of in line with mine.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:50.960
And so we talked and I invited her.
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:52.079
She's gonna bring her girls tomorrow.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:58.240
We do the same curriculum, and then we're gonna come and do school together and literally just go through a normal school day together with both our families.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:04.240
And so we can do stuff like that that doesn't take away from our structure, but that allows us to have that support.
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:09.359
And if they do an event that maybe is on a Friday afternoon or something, then I can we can join and participate.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.359
But I keep our schedule pretty protected.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.720
Well, I think there's also there's no off-switch to good things.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.039
Yeah.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:26.240
I think it so many people get a lot of invites, and if they go searching for their local area on what's available and what's around, they're gonna find more than they can ever do.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:29.519
And they're gonna say yes to probably more than they can ever do.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:35.359
And when you do that, you're you only have a hundred percent of of the pie of your life and time.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.319
And every everything that you do is a trade-off.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.640
And this is coming from the guy who is like serial entrepreneur, wants to say yes to everything.
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:43.839
I'm serious FOMO.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:50.160
I have serious FOMO, I want to be there, a part of it, and I'm I'm realizing that like I can't.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.480
I can only ride about two horses well before I get way, you know.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:55.279
Bucked off.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:56.720
Yeah, bucked off entirely.
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.920
And so three horses, way too many, but I've got two feet.
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.960
I can probably ride two horses, you know, and if I pull it off, maybe I'll look cool doing it.
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:05.519
I don't know.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.880
Like, that's that's my problem.
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.599
That's my own issue.
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.519
So and there's room for field trips.
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:16.240
Field trips are awesome because the memories anchor in a different way because you're out of your normal routine and doing something unique.
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:20.079
And so some of what these co-op events are provides opportunity for that.
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:26.960
So there will be a few throughout the year that I do participate in that we go ahead and say, okay, in one month they're doing this field trip and we want to participate.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:35.359
So we're gonna go to this event, we're gonna call it a field trip, but I will be intentional on questions I ask and on observation to try to make it an educational field trip in some way.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:42.480
And it will, those, those things do anchor and cause memories in in a way that's really helpful that just book learning can't do.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:42.799
Right.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.480
And so there's a place for it for sure.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:57.039
I've just, for me and for what I've seen and the amount of, like Luke's saying, good things that you could say yes to that I'm always wondering, well, how in the world, if you're doing this on Monday and this on Tuesday, and this on Wednesday, where's your structure?
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:02.559
Where do you have time to actually homeschool your kids in a way that has a system of structure to it?
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:07.440
Because it's almost like homeschool moms are expected to homeschool, but nobody's actually paying attention.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.720
Do you realize that takes time?
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:15.519
And so I think we put too much pressure on ourselves sometimes to feel like, well, homeschooling means I should be able to say yes to anything because I'm the one that's home with my kids.
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.039
So I should be able to do it all because all these other people are working and look what they're doing.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.759
So if I'm homeschooling, I should be able to do it all.
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:32.079
And that is literally the biggest lie that you could ever believe because you are home all day, which means your house is gonna be a wreck because you guys are living in it all day.
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.720
You're making three meals a day, not one.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:42.319
You are doing all the nap times and the routines of life and any animal or garden chores, which a lot of homeschoolers do have those too.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.119
And so that's a whole thing all by itself.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.799
Then you're adding the education of a bunch of different grades of kids.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.599
So that should take a lot of time.
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.519
These people that are going to work and sending their kids to school have all kinds of help.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.519
That's why they're making it look easy.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.519
Someone else is teaching their kids.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.839
They have five different teachers for their five different kids.
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:02.640
You're one.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.799
You know, it's that idea and really embracing that this is huge.
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.559
What you're doing is huge.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.839
It's no small fee.
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:16.079
And so when you have to say no to a lot of things because I'm homeschooling, that is a legit reason to say I'm too busy.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:20.640
My life is way too much right now to say yes to more things, and I know the fallout.
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:26.319
If I go three days in a row to these three fun events, it's gonna take us a week and a half to get back on our normal track.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:35.519
Yeah, it's funny because I do think there's a dichotomy there with because I I talk to many homeschoolers, and you're right about the fact that you were homeschooled, so you have the experience of it.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:46.799
It was funny too, because you kind of went to college and were like, I mean, did you feel that when you went to college that you were steps above everybody else as far as what you knew and and how you were able to complete work?
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:59.680
I assumed at first I was gonna fail that I wouldn't know, but yeah, pretty quickly I it wasn't just that I could get better grades, which I did than most people, it was the ability to think through a question.
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:05.920
And actually, I remember a professor with our first writing class, because I did all my classes at this four-year unibusary.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.079
I did not do the two-year before.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.240
I did everything, went straight into a four-year school.
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.559
And so my comp one and comp two were there.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:18.880
And she said, you guys, when you're given a prompt for writing an essay, answer the question.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:24.799
And she was frustrated because people were reading the assignment and getting all off, and the answers didn't make any sense.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.240
The essays that were written were, and I didn't get to read them all, I was very curious.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.119
But they she said, They that you've got to answer the question.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.079
Look at what's being asked.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.799
If you want a good grade in whatever professor, whatever subject, answers the question that's being asked.
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:45.519
And so it was very and then so I'm learning and putting that into practice and going, oh, so okay, that means that people are not asking answering the question, which means they must not know how.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.799
Because up to that point, they weren't told to answer questions.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.880
They were told what answers to give.
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:51.839
Fill in a circle.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:53.920
Fill in the circle, fill in the blank.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:54.799
Here's your list.
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:56.480
What to think, not how to think.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:02.720
And so college was frustrating for them and frustrating for the professors because they came to college not knowing how to think.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:16.319
And college should be about how to think and how to reason and how to argue and how to do it in a way that establishes what you believe and why, and how you're going to use that to help your world because it's being handed off to you in that stage of life.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:24.319
So, yeah, when I think about structuring and and there are so many people that think, oh, well, the co-ops and the play dates and the experiences, that's giving them stuff.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:28.240
But as I'm listening to you, it does make a lot of sense to have the structure.
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.480
That's definitely something we lack here.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.640
Having the the entrepreneurial mind and the business, and okay, I'm trying to get this done whenever I can.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:45.200
And you know, which but you're right, it does her in the end because it kind of gives the kids like, oh, she's busy with this, I can get away with doing that.
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:48.160
And I mean, it it's it's also good.
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:54.640
I I think, you know, my son's interesting because he would like right now, he's waiting, he's watching his sister.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:59.599
I pay him five dollars to watch her upstairs while I have my interviews on Wednesday mornings.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:06.400
And but he can't wait to get outside to start a fire in the woods at his little cabin that he built and like put in a furnace the other day.
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:13.279
But you're right, there there is a comfort in them, a safety when they know what to expect every day.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:19.599
And I think you mentioned your husband having FOMO, but I do think that that's a real thing, mostly for homeschoolers.
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:28.480
I'm not saying mostly, I'm saying especially for homeschoolers because when you send your kids to the school system, all the kids are getting the same education for the most part.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:35.519
You know, it's not and it's not up to you if they don't, because they have teachers in place to make sure that they learn this X, Y, or Z.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:50.880
But when you homeschool, it's like, well, if your kid's reading by A and mine isn't, or if your kid has been exposed to how to change a tire or change the oil in a car, or you know, read a book on moth, you know, caterpillar changing into a butterfly.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.160
You know, you know what I'm saying?
00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:00.400
Or or ancient Rome and my kid hasn't, it's like, or if you've made it to this bird sanctuary and we haven't been there yet, then my kid's gonna be missing out on life.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.200
He's not gonna make it.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:14.480
And I think what you're really speaking to in the end is find what works for your family and stick to it and know that there will, you guys both just mentioned, you will miss out on some things, but that is okay because in the end you're making up for it in something else.
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:20.239
I'm also I'm I mean, coming from the public school sector, I'm not anti-public school.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.639
I'm pro-intentional parents.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:23.360
Yes.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:43.119
And, you know, as an intentional parent who has kids in public school, you can still teach your kid how to change a tire, you can still do the home egg, your kid can still be making breakfast, your kid can still like not that they're slaves, but they are in training to become a fully functional adult in society.
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.880
And it's not the school's responsibility to do that, it is the parent's job.
00:34:47.119 --> 00:35:01.840
And if that parent farms that out, right, to use my language, they if they put that out, they're surrendering the ability to guide and shape and model to somebody who is less invested in their child than they are.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:09.519
And the more inten like you can have a successful public school kid if you're intentional in raising them well.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:14.480
And they they may miss out on some of the homeschool things that are so great.
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.320
Like I was a public school kid, but my parents were hyperly intentional.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:30.400
They knew the classes that I was in, they knew the teachers that I had, they knew all the little layers and steps through there and made sure that I was doing the work and not just skating by.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.880
Um, it's still skating by because, in many ways, it's public school and all that stuff.
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:41.679
But that intentionality piece, there finding what's best for the kid and what's best for you as the parent.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.480
Not everyone is cut out to be a homeschool parent.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:48.159
And not every kid is going to thrive in a homeschool setting all the way through.
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.679
There may be seasons where you put them in school, there may be you pull them back.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:59.280
The key is the intentional parent and paying attention to your child and building in, like, it's not just the structure that we need all this time to homeschool.
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.599
I want to build in time where my kids are bored.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.599
We build in those hours.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:10.400
So after lunch, to finish our day, we we do a lunch break and then we have one more session, and it's either history or science.
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:11.840
We kind of do this just a couple times a week.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.840
History or science or geography, and then we do Bible lessons as well.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.519
And then they have a free block that is free.
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.599
And most of the time it's you're outside.
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.280
So I don't know, what am I gonna do?
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:23.679
I don't know.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:29.360
You've got tons of stuff figured out, and so that's where the imagination takes over, and what you're just described with your son happens.
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:37.760
They're out in the middle of adding to a fort deck that Luke built them in our woods, and I'm not allowed down there right now because they want to show it as a special surprise when they're done.
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:42.320
But they're all four, they all go run to the woods and they're working together on the things that they can do on it.
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:50.320
They get in their canoe and paddle across the pond and they have a whole world they create for themselves on a little island, and that's what they do.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:56.960
And if we were sending them to school every day, they would not have that chance to let boredom spark imagination and creativity.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:58.000
It's all done for you.
00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:59.119
And we don't want that.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:04.079
We've we have to, you know, kind of most people don't have what we have in this sense.
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:08.480
Like we live in a very rural location in southeast Missouri.
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:12.400
Some of the the least expensive ground in America is probably right where we are.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:24.880
So it's not like we're just loaded with with with funds, but we have intentionally allocated those funds to live the way we do, which is very far out, very inconvenient in many ways, close enough to a tiny town.
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:27.440
But we have a stoplight in our town, right?
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:29.039
It's a stoplight town.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:34.079
Uh the town's thinking about upgrading to an LED soon, but we've been talking about that for 11 years, so I don't know.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:50.480
Anyway, the living so rural and so remote remote allows us to have, you know, we we live on on just under or just over 20 acres, and we have an acre pond and we have 10 acres of woods, and then the top is farming and in market veg and we do strawberries and things like that.
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:55.360
But the that environment is what we pre-decided that we wanted to raise our kids in.
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.159
Yeah, that's why we moved here and wanted to have farm kids.
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:04.480
We were in a zone in Arizona where to afford the type of land that we're on, we just couldn't, and we didn't want a loan that huge.
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:06.400
And so that was the decision we made.
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:07.920
It will cost you something.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:13.119
But if you're gonna pay something anyway, which you do at every decision you make, then at least make it what you want.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.119
Make it what works best for your family.
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.639
Make the right sacrifices because you will never be able to avoid sacrifices.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:19.760
So make the right ones.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:27.760
And we are able to keep doing this because we made those right sacrifices, because we put ourselves in a place where we can thrive while doing this.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:39.599
If we had compromised and tried to, well, I guess we'll just stay in a townhouse and start there so that we can and been too practical and too financially sound and some of that and kept me where we would not be where we want to be.
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:47.280
We might be further along financially, we might look more like everybody else, but if that's not your goal, then don't keep making decisions that take you there.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:58.079
If your goal is to be out on land, if your goal is to homeschool, then set yourselves up for what you actually want, not what culture tells you you should have at this age, at this time.
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:03.840
And I say that as a preach because I have to preach it to my soul all the time, because it's so hard.
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:16.000
When you do look around at people your age that seem further, quote, ahead, that have nicer cars and more set in retirement and other things because they kept both parents working, because their kids are in the public school system.
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:20.480
I have to remind myself all the time, no, I made this choice, and this is the choice I wanted.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:25.119
It doesn't always feel good, it often feels very hard, but this is what I want.
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:26.239
And I am free.
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:26.960
I'm free.
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:29.760
I'm owned by a job, I'm not owned by a school system.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.400
My family is free, and so this is totally worth it.
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.920
But I have to go there all the time and tell myself that story again.
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:40.239
And you kind of think back on my deathbed, what am I gonna look back and be happy about?
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:40.559
Yeah.
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:41.039
Yep.
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.000
Can you guys talk to me a little bit about Dirt Academy kids?
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.079
I know you've set this up, I'd like to hear about it.
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.360
Yeah, so the result of the last 12 years of us raising our kids is really where it came from.
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:54.159
Yeah, so this started what last year?
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:55.280
It started last year.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:09.280
About a year ago, one of my friends reached out to me and we were just talking, and she had a company called the Dirt Academy, and she has been, they have a a little TV show called Farm to Table that's on Amazon Prime.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:14.000
And we've done work in the agriculture space and you know, brand space in the past.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:18.000
And she said, I think I I think we really need to figure out a way to teach kids.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:20.159
There's nothing for teaching kids how to garden.
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:22.559
And I started thinking about it, and I was like, You're right.
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:30.000
And I'm like, we pr we need to have like a homeschooling curriculum, as homeschooling is launching and and taking off in a pretty big way.
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:33.119
And I was like, if there's nothing there, maybe there's an opportunity.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:45.440
And so, with my background and her background and her background, the the couples, you know, the two couples sat down, the two families sat down and said, Hey, you know, what are the skills we bring to the table if we were to launch a company?
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:54.000
And I'm the marketer guy and the reach out to people guy, and uh, you know, the organic farmer, like farm consultant, soil guy.
00:40:54.079 --> 00:41:00.559
Um, she's the content, behavioral, you know, understanding kids, understanding families, homeschooler.
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.840
Neen is a visionary, all things beautiful kind of thing.
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:05.039
And then designer.
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.519
She designs gardens and landscapes for people.
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:09.039
And so it was Yeah.
00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:13.599
And so we had all this, and then her husband was a brain piano player for the band.
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:15.360
Like he's super 10th Avenue North.
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:15.679
Yeah.
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.920
So he was a piano player for over a decade for a band called 10th Avenue North.
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:27.360
And uh so he's like the CFO, like accountant guy, and we're like, hey, we actually have a pretty good team like assembled here, all in like values.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:31.360
And so what we decided to do was write a homeschool curriculum.
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:37.599
So we wrote a 30-lesson homeschool textbook, and we we we went really high in.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.400
It's very nice.
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:51.440
Um, this is not hand-drawn illustrations, two-page spread for every lesson that takes you all the way from your first garden starting questions all the way to harvest in 30 lessons, which can be done as a unit study.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:58.159
If you're doing a couple lessons a week, it could be done one lesson a week over the course of a year, it could be done intensely in a summer in about a month.
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:07.360
And so we designed it that way on purpose, knowing the kind of unit studies, the kind of things that I've been working with, with the curriculum I use as my base for most things is good and beautiful.
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.760
And the good and the beautiful has a very similar structure to a lot of their textbooks.
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:14.719
And so that inspired kind of the layout of some of this.
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.239
But there's multiple workbooks.
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:22.880
We have a third through fifth grade and a kindergarten through second that each have a workbook page that goes along with each lesson.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:31.599
There's one that's kind of academic, so you're gonna fill in things, you're gonna draw things, and then the other one's designed to get your brain juices going, your garden wish list here.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.480
So make a list of what you want in your garden, and then some of them how to design your garden.
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.079
And so you're actually doing the garden work as part of your lesson.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:52.239
And so the idea is to keep an accountability because we know so many families that want to garden with their kids, but to tell a family to add one more thing, they don't have enough structure set in their day already, and they'll start it and not be able to finish it.
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:57.280
And so we wanted something that would help people stay accountable and be able to go all the way through it.
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:02.719
So we also created coaching that we do online, and we filmed the whole thing for every lesson.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:08.800
So there is a full video teach piece that is six to 12 minutes for each different lesson, walking you through the whole step.
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:19.039
So it's a full video course too, if people opt into that, and then both the video course, the community, and the coaching calls is hosted in the school platform SKO.
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:25.599
And so, yeah, we've we launched our we went into pre-order in January of this year.
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:28.960
We then went into you know delivering in April.
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:30.400
We've just done a second print.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:35.360
We're picking up a bunch of wholesale accounts, and the biggest shock to us was schools.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:36.800
Schools are reaching out, yeah.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.280
And so we so a bunch of schools are wanting to do it.
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:50.960
And we've got a local school that's actually bringing kids, it's a private Christian school, and they bring kids once a month to our farm as they're getting started to try to see and get to walk through what it looks like to garden and why to do it.
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:59.760
And then they're gonna be building garden beds on their school grounds, and so it's it seems to be taken off in a in a fun way in different areas, and there's so many good teachers in.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:06.880
In so many different varieties of schools that see what homeschool parents are seeing, but they've chosen to be in that field teaching kids.
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:13.679
And I love, love, love to see so many good teachers or we need them because there's a lot of families that either can't homeschool or don't know how, so they don't.
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:15.440
So public school will continue to be a thing.
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.039
So little Christian schools and charter schools.
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:18.400
So we need good teachers.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:23.280
We need people out there that care and can creatively help their schools get connected.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:27.039
And it's super fun to see that happening and to get to be a part of it.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.320
So we're very excited to see that reach that our folks are making.
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:38.639
The bigger thing for me is obviously raising kids is the most important thing, but also kids today aren't getting outside.
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:40.320
They aren't engaging with nature.
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.159
They are disconnected from their food system.
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:43.760
They don't know where their food comes from.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.320
The food that is grown is not nutritious.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:53.760
There's a lot of a whole can of worms that I have a podcast devoted to, you know, on talking about those kinds of things.
00:44:54.079 --> 00:45:04.639
And there's a plethora of research showing the benefits of outside time and what it does for anxiety, for depression, for mental health, for physical health, for all the different things.
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:05.840
All the research is there.
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:11.599
And yet we still have this gap in how we're living and then how we see and and are learning what's healthy.
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:16.239
And kids get an average of five to seven minutes out that outside of unstructured playtime.
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:17.119
Five to seven minutes.
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:22.639
So if our books could double that and that's all, that would be a huge change.
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:25.519
And that's crazy to think, but it would be.
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:29.519
And so trying to push Dirt Academy Kids is not just about being in the garden.
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.000
That's our first course, but we could go any direction with this.
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:36.719
It's about getting kids and families intentionally outside and doing more outside things.
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:43.280
You know, and again, my it makes me want to lean back into my adventure childhood where I'm the camper.
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:48.880
I'm the one who wants to go do but bushcraft stuff and camp in the woods and you know, build the platforms and do all that.
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:50.800
That could be a Dirt Academy course.
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:54.320
That's why Dirt Academy is kind of like the overarching brand.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.800
But I'm an organic vegetable farmer.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.760
That's my network.
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.039
Like, we're gonna start there.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:05.119
And I think that we really need to replace the grocery store with the American backyard.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:05.519
Yep.
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:06.639
We've done it before.
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.039
We did it in World War II, and we can do it again.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:10.159
It shouldn't take a war.
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:10.559
Yeah.
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:10.719
Right.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.920
So one family at a time, we're trying to encourage and support.
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.639
And and it's all it was born though from us doing it.
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:26.239
We never dreamed 12 years ago when we looked like fools starting out, quitting a job, and moving across the country that we would be able to have anything to stand on to help and teach and inspire other people.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:35.280
But when you just stay the course on something you believe in and you build systems around what you want and what you believe is right for your family, it's amazing what can happen.
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:36.400
This is awesome.
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:38.639
I'm gonna put links to this in the show's description too.
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.920
You guys have had so many great insights and inspiration and motivation.
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:46.719
What did you do differently with your kids?
00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:50.000
You said that you homeschool a little bit different than you were homeschooled.
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:50.960
What did you do differently?
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.280
I made more of an emphasis on socialization.
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:58.159
I was, we were very much, we didn't have any church activity, we had nothing.
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:03.360
Like Thanksgivings are big memories to me because it was one of the few times in the year we had family and friends over.
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:04.880
My parents were very intentional.
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:09.679
My dad would be on neighbors' roofs helping get old ladies' coolers set up.
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:15.440
We knew all the elderly neighbors around us, and so tons of effort and intentionality on taking care of people.
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:21.440
But for us personally, like all of us kids, socializing and with kids when I was young was not there.
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:25.599
So we built in a lot of rhythms and intentionality and inviting people in.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:29.679
We have people over for meals at least once or twice a week, whenever we can.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:35.760
And we've discovered, especially since COVID, our generation, our generation, the one below us, people don't know how to do that anymore.
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.840
They don't know how to have people and invite people into their world, how to cook for people.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.880
And so it always feels like it's fun and encouraging.
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:47.280
And as I got older and my family did get more socially involved, I was like 14 or 15.
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:50.880
So it was there was a deficit, but when I was younger for sure.
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:54.800
But we did start doing that more, and it was amazing how it encouraged people.
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:57.840
I remember watching and seeing how people loved coming to our house.
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:03.440
And we lived near an army base and we were actually inviting a lot of GIs in, and they could just become part of the family.
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:09.360
Well, so as a teenager, I got to see these guys and they just loved it because they could feel like one of the kids again and come and just hang out.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:15.440
And so that left an impression on me combined with the deficit I saw when we were young, when we were way too isolated.
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:23.760
And I see a need for if we're gonna live in inspiring ways, we actually have to be around enough people to be inspiring and allow opportunity for people to come in.
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:25.519
And yeah, it may be a mess sometimes.
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:27.679
And yeah, they're gonna see us yell at our kids sometimes.
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.159
And there might be things that aren't as clean.
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.719
There's cobwebs in my corners of my house sometimes.
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:33.599
You have to not care.
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:35.760
That's not what matters, that's not what people notice.
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:43.920
But good food and laughter and hanging out together and giving kids a chance to have friends of different ages and do things every week multiple times.
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:48.159
That's created a rhythm in our life that's very different from how I was raised.
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:52.079
And while our kids are still young, like they so they've grown up around people.
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.159
And we've also been very involved in church.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:56.639
And so that's made a big difference on the socialization.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.079
My kids know how to behave in classes.
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:03.760
They've been in church classes since they were little, and they know how to do things that I had no experience in.
00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:05.360
And so that's the big difference.
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:09.519
I'm also not as rigid as my mom was on our school day.
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:11.519
She had, I mean, it was bells.
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:13.119
It was 6:30, you're up.
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.480
If you don't get your chores done before breakfast, you're doing them at recess.
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:22.159
When the the tone hits 10:30, recess is over, that bell's ringing, you better be in right away.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:26.639
And in your seat, it was she was strict for a homeschool mom with eight kids.
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:28.079
So she always had a nursing baby.
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:33.199
Looking back, I don't know how she did it, but that's how was she retained a very strict structure.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:35.920
My younger siblings, though, don't remember that.
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:39.519
So by the time they got older, she had loosened up her structure because she could.
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:40.320
She didn't have as many.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:44.719
But when I was young, I was the third down and it was it was very rigid.
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:48.559
So my siblings hated, they all hated school, and that continued.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.159
I was the only one that went to college and actually got degrees.
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.519
They didn't really care to do that.
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:58.800
They're all extremely hardworking, have built businesses, are doing amazing things, and they're all homeschooling their kids.
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:00.159
Every single one of my siblings.
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:01.360
It's bizarre.
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:04.800
And we're all very different, but every single family is homeschooling.
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:18.880
That is so a testament to something about what my parents did in an era when it was not cool and when they did not know how it was going to turn out, which is what I have to remind myself and what you have to remind yourself if you're a homeschool parent, you don't know, and that's okay.
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.360
Just keep doing what you believe in, trust your instincts on it, and keep going forward.
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:34.559
And is there any other advice that you would give that home or that or that parent that wants to homeschool but is just thinking this is so out of the norm, it's so out of culture and society and what we're using.
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.280
And it's scary to even to quit a job.
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:41.039
I I did it too, and it was that was I think the scariest part.
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:43.519
It wasn't educating my kids or finding friends for them.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:48.559
It was can I really walk away from this income and everything I thought my life was going to look like?
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:49.679
What we have to say to them.
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:59.519
Do it, do what you believe because you only have one life and you can always get another job, you can always find ways, but you cannot raise your kids twice.
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.039
You get one shot at this.
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:07.199
And so if it's what you think you should do and you've been hemming and hawing because you don't know how you're gonna do it, do it and the how will come.
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:08.639
You have to make the decision first.
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:11.119
You don't always know how, but you have to know the what.
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:16.880
And if you know the what, if you know what you're supposed to be doing and what's best for your kids, or your kid's struggling at school right now, it's not your kid.
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:18.000
Your kid's not the problem.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:19.679
The system is extremely broken.
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:24.079
So pull them, do it because you could regret later not doing it, and you'll always wonder.
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:25.679
And that's a terrible thing to have to live with.
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:33.199
So however hard it might be, and however you might not know, do it and then find support, find groups and people that you can reach out to.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:34.320
There's tons of us out there.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:36.159
Being against culture is a good thing.
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:38.559
We see where culture's headed, it's not a good place.
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.719
So it's good to be outside of it, even if it's weird.
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:42.239
Luke, anything else that you would like to do?
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:45.280
Yeah, I would I would probably say try to know yourself.
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:46.719
Know if you're doing too much.
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.800
It's okay to say no to things.
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:55.840
Uh, if you're doing too little and you're the kind of personality that's going to thrive and do better doing more, maybe it is time to do more.
00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:57.519
I don't know everyone's situation.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.519
I would also say plant a garden.
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:03.519
It it uh it will grow you as you grow the garden.
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:08.159
And I think there is a part of being it it it makes so much sense.
00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:15.280
It makes financial sense if you don't go too crazy over overboard with the designs and the raised beds and the uh this and the that.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:24.079
But if you buy seeds, look at your soil, put it in the ground, you're literally producing food for your family that is good, healthy.
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:27.280
Like everything in the vegetable aisle is good for you.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:29.280
Everything in the fruit aisle is good for you.
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:32.559
It's it's not one of those uh you know highly processed things.
00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:35.119
We're gonna grow a tomato and eat the tomato.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:40.239
Like it is it is life-giving and life-changing when you do that.
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:42.159
And it's not as hard as you think it is.
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:43.440
No, it's not as hard.
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:46.159
And the health, my garden is my favorite classroom.
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:56.719
It's not just growing food, it's a tool that I use constantly to help teach my kids work ethic at a new level and responsibility and participation with the world that you're taking care of.
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.800
If you're supposed to take care of this earth, you gotta know it.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:04.960
You gotta know what happens when you spray chemicals and all the bees that come to pollinate the flowers die because you're trying to keep out weeds.
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:07.440
We're so out of touch with that, and our kids need to be.
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:11.599
If we're entrusting and we have to, the next generation is coming up, the world's theirs.
00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:12.559
We've only got one planet.
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:18.800
So if we're gonna take care of it, gardening in our backyard is a really, really good way to start on just getting your kids connected to it.
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:24.320
And the health benefits you will see, like if we're struggling, if we're having a rough day, that's why such a big room for a garden block.
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:30.880
We can cut out early to garden block, we can get out, get our bare feet in the soil, and it's so healthy and it calms me.
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.280
It helps my tendency toward high anxiety.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:39.760
And it as I've gone through tons of postpartum anxiety with all four of mine, the garden was my safe place, it was my favorite place to be.
00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:44.639
And so it's a super healing, healthy thing, not just a place to grow food.
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:45.039
Right.
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:49.280
And I'm not saying everyone should start a farm and grow like we do.
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:59.199
And you know, we we've had to come full circle on the other end to where this curriculum was as much a project to help our kids re-engage with the garden because I'd burned them.
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:02.559
Doing too big of farms, doing starting other farms for other people.
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:07.360
You know, they don't they don't want to go and plant, you know, thousands of strawberries.
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.159
Like they just want to plant for us, yeah.
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:11.760
Our our our scale's different.
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:15.119
Like it's it's a different measuring stick now because we've put in the reps.
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:23.360
And this was our our first year launching this company to where we weren't actually running a farm store and trying to sell veg and hustle veg at the same time.
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:24.719
Eight years, I think.
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:42.000
And so it it really changes every everyone that interaction with food and knowing how to how to process simple things like from lettuce to anything, and you know, it's so it's it's not hard, and it can be taught, and it can be taught to an elementary age kid.
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.719
And you know, we're here to help anybody who's interested too.
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:47.360
Luke and Liz, thank you guys so much for being here today.
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:48.559
This has been so informative.
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:52.960
I'm gonna put all your links for your podcast, for the curriculum, right in the description.
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:54.800
So ahead there if you are interested.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:55.599
I know I am.
00:54:55.840 --> 00:55:00.320
This will be so fun to do with the kids, especially once the winter kind of subsides.
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:05.280
We're heading into that season right now, so it's like, oh, I don't know, I don't know if I want to think about gardening right now.
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:14.079
But oh my gosh, how fun to start this in February when it like there has been snow on the ground here in New York for two months and to think of gardening.
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:15.679
It's like, right, spring is coming.
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:16.559
Let's get ready.
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:18.639
So I do love that aspect of it too.
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.199
And we have to start ours indoors here, but that's okay.
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:27.440
Uh it makes you're you're right, it makes for awesome science lessons and just fun stuff to do with the kids.
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:31.280
So thank you guys so much for joining me today, and thank you for the work that you're doing.
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:32.000
Absolutely.
00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:32.559
Thank you.
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:33.360
Thank you.
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.320
Thank you for listening to the Homeschool How To Podcast.
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.480
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00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:42.639
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00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:50.079
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00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:55.199
Until next time, keep learning, keep questioning, and thank you for your love of the next generation.