Why Being Busy Stops You From Being Your Best | Shawn Vanderhoven

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Donnie Tello: the reason your best
people are busy but never at their best.
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And it might be you making it happen.
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named it.
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He measured it across 150
companies, and he can tell you
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your score in about two minutes.
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Vanderhoven, author of Pause,
welcome to Leader- t- Welcome
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to the Genius Effect , Sean.
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I'm tongue-tied, man.
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I need to take a pause.
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How are you today?
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Shawn: yeah, good.
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Donnie, it's so fun to be on with you, man
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Donnie Tuttle: Uh, great book.
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Um, I'm not even gonna get into the, the
fact of all of the brand admiration that
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I just now expressed to you earlier.
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Sean, you claim that a lot of
people might be going 100 miles
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an hour in the wrong direction.
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What makes you say that?
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Shawn: Well, I mean, just
think about what you, you know,
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it's like to work in a team.
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Successful teams have more options.
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They've got more opportunities,
and with that, it's, it's
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impossible to not take on too much.
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We're pivoting really fast.
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We're hyper-connected, so
we're gonna collaborate more.
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Uh, we're gonna collaborate
more in pockets.
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We're on for longer hours of
the day, sometimes when we're
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not thinking our very best.
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We're trying to go fast, and the
combination of all that makes it
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very, very difficult to be going
fast in the right direction with all
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the pivots and the changes around us
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Donnie Tuttle: I love it.
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I am, um, curious, Sean, you got
your start not by studying all of the
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companies that you're doing, uh, not,
not at the Wiseman Group, but you…
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There was a…
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Talk to us about your beginning at
your family company a long, long,
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long time ago in a galaxy far away,
and was, was he that kind of leader?
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Was, was Sean that kind of leader
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Shawn: No.
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As a matter of fact, I, I remember s-
there was a software developer, his
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name's Brett Burbage, pulled me aside
one day, and we had just done-- we just
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completed a review where we were talking
about the priorities for the quarter
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and then also all the things that were
coming at us from different clients.
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And he said, he, he's like: "Well,
Pork Chop, if you want me to get that
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priority done, you're gonna have to
decide all what, what are all the
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other projects that I'm not gonna do."
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And, and it was just these
little moments where I would…
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I couldn't name what my problem was
in terms of cr- stealing people's
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ability to focus, but I just
had this tendency to overcommit.
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I ha- I had ambition.
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I w- I wanted to go big.
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I wanted to go fast.
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I was a sucker for a good opportunity.
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And so I, I tended to say yes a lot
and push people to go fast, and I, I
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wasn't very good at facing trade-offs.
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And so I was one of these leaders that
had, as we call, a bias towards action.
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Donnie Tuttle: action.
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Shawn: And that's a good thing when you're
contributing, but as a leader, you have
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to graduate that to a bias towards impact,
where you're carefully considering,
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will the activity really deliver on
the big thing that matters most to us?
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And I, I didn't have that bias,
and so as a result of that, I
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had a tendency to overcommit,
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Donnie Tuttle: tendency to overcommit
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Shawn: uh, pivot too much, take away
people's time to think, and, and then I
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didn't create space for people to share
with me what they were frustrated about.
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I mean, I wasn't interested,
uh, um, sometimes.
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You know, sometimes I was, of course.
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You know, I'm a people person, but a
lot of times I just wanted to get to
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the destination as fast as we could.
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And so the combination of all those
things, people, I-- As I went back and
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interviewed them as we, when we were doing
this research on pause, I'd ask people:
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"Hey, was I one of these leaders that just
made it harder to focus, stole your space,
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made it even more difficult to communicate
the things that were driving you crazy?"
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And the answer was yes on all fronts.
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Donnie Tuttle: A combination
of all those things.
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People…
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I, as I went back and interviewed them
between, between these research on
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pause, I'd ask people, "Hey, was I one
of these leaders that just made it a
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harder focus, stole your space, made it
even more difficult to communicate the
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things that were driving you crazy?"
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And the answer was, "Yes, on all fronts."
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Oh.
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I don't know how that, uh, felt to hear.
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Uh, you probably had some
inclination that that might be true.
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You kinda touched on a sacred cow, okay?
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A lot of us, I'm talking to leaders and
entrepreneurs, and, you know, it is, we
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are, it's action, action, action, baby.
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Go, go, go.
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You're not saying not to take action or
that action is, is like, is, is not the,
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um, we need action to get towards what
you would, you would call impact, but
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maybe, maybe split that a little bit.
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I, I…
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For some reason, a
roomba's coming to my mind.
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But bring, bring me to, bring me to what,
like, w- what is this bias towards action?
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What does it look like and what, what, how
is it ch- maybe leading people to a ditch?
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Shawn: Okay, so for those of you that are
listening, there's a really fun story.
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So I wrote this book with my
wife, and she writes the story in
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chapter one about a little robot
that gets itself into trouble.
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But I'm gonna let you
read the rest of the story
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Donnie Tuttle: Key it up, yes
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Shawn: So, okay.
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We need people to take action.
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We need people to have the
competitive advantage of speed.
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But more than those things, we need
for those actions and that quick
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movement to lead to something that
is worth writing home about, that
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has the impact that we're hoping for.
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And it's really easy when you're moving
fast and you're in an environment
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where you're expected to say yes
and there's hyper-collaboration
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going around all the time,
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Donnie Tuttle: all the time,
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Shawn: to focus on the
collaboration itself
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Donnie Tuttle: itself
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Shawn: and the speed of
checking things off your list
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Donnie Tuttle: your list
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Shawn: versus having this mindset where
you're thinking about, "Is this activity
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leading to the impact that we want?"
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That means you've got to slow
down to clarify what is the
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target that you're going for.
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How will you know if you're successful?
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And as that changes, because it's
going to change, like if you're
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focusing on a butterfly, taking a
picture of one with a camera, you're
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going to be adjusting your camera a
lot because it's going to move a lot.
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And that is similar for us as leaders.
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Our environment is changing.
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We are being asked to do new things.
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We have to pivot.
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Donnie Tuttle: on
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Shawn: And that means that we have to take
even more time to clarify with our team,
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Donnie Tuttle: with
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Shawn: is the goal
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Donnie Tuttle: gonna
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Shawn: the big goal, the
priority, the priorities?
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Are they clear?
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Are they still clear?
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The number one thing that people
told us that was holding them back
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from doing their very best work in
the research was, "I'm not clear.
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I don't really know
what success looks like.
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I kind of know.
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I've got the proximate direction,
and I'm trying to go towards this."
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So
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Donnie Tuttle: this.
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Shawn: if you are always taking action
as a leader and you're not slowing down
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Donnie Tuttle: down
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Shawn: to clarify what
matters most and are the
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Donnie Tuttle: are the
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Shawn: success criteria and
the right lead actions clear,
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Donnie Tuttle: clear,
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Shawn: your people will
not have this clarity.
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They will not be able
to get into deep work.
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They will find themselves stuck in the
shallows, and this wears people out.
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Not because they're doing too much, but
because they're having too little impact
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It's not enough just to have a book.
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What would happen if you could take
your book and have the AI version
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of you in between every chapter?
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Well, that's what we're
doing at CoachBook.ai.
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We train it in your voice, your
methodology, and only your book,
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giving the user an experience that
helps them to create actual movement.
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So if you're an author that
believes in transformation, not just
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information, look us up at CoachBook.ai
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and just grab a time to talk.
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And now back to the show
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Donnie Tuttle: what led you to being what,
what you were at that, um, the software
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company that you said was kind of the
opposite of what you're writing about.
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What, what led to the, the
research and the change for you?
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Um, and, and, and I'm wondering if you,
if in your research or in your, you
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t- you, you coach, you talk to a lot
of leaders, uh, you have over the…
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through your studies and everything
else, do you find that a lot of leaders
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are in that first bucket because maybe
it's almost like they're a polymath?
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Or is it that we're, we're, have
some sort of entrepreneur idolatry?
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Like, talk to us about that.
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I-
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Shawn: Yeah.
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There's two questions in there.
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Where-- how did I discover this,
and maybe even a question down the
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road, have I made some changes?
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Because I've al- I've confessed that I was
the leader that had a bias towards action
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and super distracting and amplified chaos.
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Uh, so there's the question
of, um, you know, what…
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how did we discover this, and what
can leaders do to make the shift to
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where they create more space for deep
focus and therefore increase impact?
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Well, I was teaching a workshop.
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So I'm gonna do this in two parts.
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I was teaching a workshop in San Jose.
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It was a multipliers workshop, and
multipliers is about this idea on how
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do you use your intelligence as a tool
to access other people's intelligence.
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And in the middle of the workshop,
we were talking about the challenge
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of responding too quickly to email
and just being committed to speed and
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going fast and collaborating quickly.
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And I'm in this room with
a couple hundred people.
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I'm at the front, as you can imagine,
presenting with slides up on a,
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you know, big screen behind me.
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And in the middle of the presentation,
let's call him Jeff, he stands
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up, slams his hand on the table
in front of him and says, "I'm so
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Donnie Tuttle: on
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Shawn: pissed off right now."
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And I was taken back by
this, you can imagine.
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Everybody looks at him, they look at me.
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Pin could-- A pin could have dropped
and we would've all heard it.
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Luckily, I froze.
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In that freeze, he takes another
crack at the cherry and says,
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Donnie Tuttle: Says,
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Shawn: "I've made my career on
doing great work by focusing every
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day for as much of the minutes as
I have on a few clear priorities.
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But now I'm a leader, and I am
just passing on the chaos that
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I get from senior management and
from our clients to our team.
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I give them no space
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Donnie Tuttle: space to
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Shawn: to focus deeply on their
priorities, and that's not how I've made
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my name and I'm just pissed off about it
and I don't know what to do about it."
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I didn't have an answer.
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But as I drove up one oh one to my hobbit
hole in Menlo Park, I thought, "Man,
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there's an interesting question in there.
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Are there leaders out there in
this hyper-connected world that
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are creating space for people
to do deep, brilliant work?
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And if they're o- if they are, if they are
out, out there, what is their assumption
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and what do they do differently?"
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Because I know what these leaders do
that assume that we've just got to go,
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go, go, do more, more, more, faster,
faster, faster which is getting worse
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with the tool sets that we have in AI.
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Uh, so I know about those leaders.
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Sure, we need to crystallize
what, you know, don't want to do.
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What do these leaders do that
act-- Are they out there?
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Are they unicorns?
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Are there a lot of them?
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Donnie Tuttle: Are there a lot of them?
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Shawn: Or they're…
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Is it scarce?
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And so we devised a research
question, "What do the best leaders
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do to create space for deep focus
on the work that matters most versus
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those leaders that amplify chaos?"
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Interviewed hundreds upon hundreds of
people, took in thousands of stories,
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and in that data what came back that
was really clear was leaders who
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create space for deep, brilliant work
in a hyper-connected environment are
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really good at tapping the brakes.
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Not, not breaks, B-R-E-A-K.
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We're talking brakes as
in B-R-A-K-E, meaning
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Donnie Tuttle: meaning
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Shawn: our intention of tapping
the brakes is actually to get
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go faster out of that turn.
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I-i…
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We're slowing down to reprioritize
in the meeting because we want
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people to be clearer, so when they
leave the meeting they can go away
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and do the thing that matters most.
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So they were essentially performance
pit stops or performance pauses.
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So we c- we gathered up the 12
pauses that showed up the most
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Donnie Tuttle: them.
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I'll
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Shawn: helped teams get clearer,
have more buffers, and clear out
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things that were bugging them.
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I'll say that again.
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These pauses helped teams get clearer
on what mattered, create more buffer
00:11:58.248 --> 00:12:02.808
for deep focused work and to c- and
they to clear out the things that were
00:12:02.808 --> 00:12:04.438
stealing their attention emotionally.
00:12:04.446 --> 00:12:04.819
Donnie Tuttle: emotionally.
00:12:04.819 --> 00:12:04.849
And
00:12:05.518 --> 00:12:07.748
Shawn: And for me it was a revelation.
00:12:07.819 --> 00:12:08.139
Donnie Tuttle: a revelation.
00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:09.229
The
00:12:10.178 --> 00:12:13.878
Shawn: Core of the belief
was a bias towards impact.
00:12:14.058 --> 00:12:15.088
We can't do it all.
00:12:15.875 --> 00:12:16.445
Donnie Tuttle: Mm-hmm
00:12:16.618 --> 00:12:20.388
Shawn: people need space to do
their best work, and we have to
00:12:20.398 --> 00:12:23.918
be mindful of the things that
are emotionally bothering people.
00:12:24.781 --> 00:12:25.121
Donnie Tuttle: Mm.
00:12:25.528 --> 00:12:29.478
Shawn: That mindset turns out to
be just a little bit of magic for
00:12:29.478 --> 00:12:30.598
everybody that works for that leader
00:12:33.725 --> 00:12:34.321
Donnie Tuttle: Interesting.
00:12:35.921 --> 00:12:36.551
Interesting.
00:12:36.641 --> 00:12:39.601
There are a couple of things
that, that are in there.
00:12:39.641 --> 00:12:41.011
I'm, I am wondering
00:12:44.721 --> 00:12:50.091
Do you, do you find, do you feel like
it's for people to get into the, quote,
00:12:50.111 --> 00:12:53.111
"leadership space," do you feel like
it was that bias towards action, run
00:12:53.111 --> 00:12:55.731
fast and break things, that kind of
almost, like, kept them in that mode,
00:12:55.731 --> 00:12:59.871
and so now they, they bring that forward
into the environment that they're in?
00:12:59.871 --> 00:13:00.121
Is that…
00:13:00.131 --> 00:13:03.111
Do you feel like they're reproducing
a past in, in the current-
00:13:04.795 --> 00:13:07.644
Shawn: Well, there is a challenge
in, in this because you do wanna move
00:13:07.654 --> 00:13:13.094
fast and break things in the right
direction at a sustainable pace.
00:13:13.114 --> 00:13:19.654
What we don't wanna do is to move fast,
overwhelmed, over-committed, unfocused,
00:13:20.114 --> 00:13:26.034
pivoting all the time, 'cause then you
can't break things and learn from it.
00:13:26.064 --> 00:13:27.164
You can't get in deep.
00:13:27.294 --> 00:13:32.864
So I think that what we don't preface
with that idea that Facebook coined is,
00:13:33.204 --> 00:13:37.554
yeah, but this is for highly focused
professionals that are channeling their
00:13:37.554 --> 00:13:42.964
intelligence into something that they
can go s- deeply in and that they can
00:13:43.144 --> 00:13:49.064
leverage and take to the next level, so
their learning is cascading in a direction
00:13:49.314 --> 00:13:53.504
where we're producing more value, not
just necessarily producing more units.
00:13:54.514 --> 00:13:55.054
That's different
00:13:57.447 --> 00:13:59.927
Donnie Tuttle: So we're, we're
battling then fragmentation.
00:14:00.602 --> 00:14:00.952
Shawn: Yeah
00:14:01.167 --> 00:14:04.557
Donnie Tuttle: I've seen somewhere
that there, there are multiple studies
00:14:04.557 --> 00:14:08.707
out there that, that talk about one
of the greatest gaps of, of what we're
00:14:08.707 --> 00:14:14.067
missing in our companies, it's, um, it's
effort theft, so to speak, or people
00:14:14.077 --> 00:14:18.467
not giving their dispensable effort
towards what the company is going after.
00:14:18.467 --> 00:14:21.667
A lot of times, I think according
to what we're saying here, perhaps
00:14:21.667 --> 00:14:25.337
it's because they don't necessarily
either have something that is, um,
00:14:25.347 --> 00:14:27.617
visible and exciting to run after.
00:14:27.617 --> 00:14:29.267
They don't have a, a singular goal.
00:14:29.287 --> 00:14:31.097
They're, they're being
fragmented in their thoughts.
00:14:31.747 --> 00:14:38.177
You claim environment one of the
ways that we can, uh, not force
00:14:38.177 --> 00:14:42.527
productivity, but maybe create the,
the, the possibility for it to happen.
00:14:42.527 --> 00:14:46.387
Can you talk to us about the environment
and what role that plays in productivity?
00:14:48.105 --> 00:14:53.060
Shawn: If you approach productivity as
a social problem, for most of us it is.
00:14:53.770 --> 00:15:00.580
Few of us are gonna work in studios
where our work is 100% dependent upon
00:15:00.610 --> 00:15:03.290
our cognitive ability and talent.
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:10.060
Most of us are gonna work in a matrix
system of some size with a combination
00:15:10.060 --> 00:15:18.110
of colleagues and clients and leadership,
and therefore we have requests and
00:15:18.110 --> 00:15:20.940
demands coming at us from every direction.
00:15:21.090 --> 00:15:25.990
And our brains, furthermore, are wired
to be successful in these tribes, meaning
00:15:26.310 --> 00:15:31.460
we will prioritize a request from a boss
more than our cute little focus block.
00:15:32.363 --> 00:15:32.483
Donnie Tuttle: More than
our cute little walk Okay
00:15:33.180 --> 00:15:37.100
Shawn: So you ask me, you're my boss, I've
got a nice focus block set up for 8:00
00:15:37.100 --> 00:15:41.840
AM to 10:00 AM every Monday morning and
every Tuesday morning, but you ask me to
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:43.520
do something that you say is pressing.
00:15:43.660 --> 00:15:47.370
Just out of self-preservation
alone, the focus block is gonna go.
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.240
Unless if we approach productivity
as a social problem and you tell
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:53.820
me, "But Sean, here's the deal.
00:15:54.300 --> 00:15:58.770
I don't ever want for you to level one
of your productivity blocks for one
00:15:58.770 --> 00:16:06.460
of my urgent requests unless I tell
you this is so important it actually
00:16:06.460 --> 00:16:08.340
trumps your focus block this morning.
00:16:08.650 --> 00:16:11.080
But if I don't say that, do not
00:16:13.760 --> 00:16:15.250
Take on my task that I've asked you.
00:16:15.290 --> 00:16:19.210
Now all of a sudden we are engaging
in a form of social productivity
00:16:19.660 --> 00:16:22.780
that is going to give me not
just permission but sponsorship.
00:16:22.790 --> 00:16:28.110
You're literally sponsoring to--
You're using your reputation and your
00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:34.190
resources to make sure that I know
that my space to think and to work and
00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:39.040
to focus on the thing that we agreed
on last week is sacred, and you will
00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:42.140
let me know if you think that there's
something big enough to interrupt that.
00:16:42.390 --> 00:16:45.680
But if that's not said, you're my boss.
00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:46.720
I'm gonna
00:16:46.735 --> 00:16:46.795
Donnie Tuttle: not said.
00:16:46.795 --> 00:16:46.855
You're my boss Mm-hmm
00:16:47.810 --> 00:16:49.640
Shawn: go for this thing
that you said is urgent
00:16:50.855 --> 00:16:51.095
Donnie Tuttle: Yeah.
00:16:51.105 --> 00:16:55.555
A, a lot of times, and I've seen these
interactions as I'm sure you have, um,
00:16:55.615 --> 00:17:01.815
it's almost like the boss, if they're
not operating under, um, what you lay
00:17:01.815 --> 00:17:06.465
out in PAWS just with creating the
priorities and, um, here, here are the
00:17:06.475 --> 00:17:10.145
things that we're going after, the lead
indicators which we, maybe we can press
00:17:10.145 --> 00:17:11.585
into some of those in, in a moment.
00:17:11.595 --> 00:17:16.205
But if you're not, if you're
not doing that, what is, what…
00:17:17.495 --> 00:17:19.225
You are the cause of the fragmentation.
00:17:19.245 --> 00:17:21.355
So you're giving almost
like a competing priority.
00:17:21.365 --> 00:17:24.415
They were pulling on one thing and
they were making progress probably,
00:17:24.415 --> 00:17:29.075
maybe, and then you, with a good
meaning heart, uh, to, to…
00:17:29.325 --> 00:17:32.735
Maybe you saw something because you're
the visionary leader or whatever,
00:17:33.075 --> 00:17:35.745
you throw something else out and
it actually competes with what they
00:17:35.745 --> 00:17:37.265
were going after to begin with.
00:17:37.315 --> 00:17:40.545
Like that's, really that's one of
the enemies we have here, right?
00:17:41.306 --> 00:17:41.786
Shawn: That's right.
00:17:43.266 --> 00:17:48.356
And if you think about it in terms
of where-- Ask yourself the question:
00:17:48.436 --> 00:17:50.346
What does excellence depend on?
00:17:51.136 --> 00:17:55.006
We've all seen excellent
work, hopefully, as a leader.
00:17:55.006 --> 00:17:57.936
Well, oftentimes it depends
on what you choose not to do.
00:17:59.126 --> 00:18:03.516
But if you don't have an environment where
there's permission to push back, where
00:18:03.516 --> 00:18:11.496
your team can protect you from the hard
truth of trying to do it all, then they're
00:18:11.496 --> 00:18:12.766
gonna struggle to do their best work.
00:18:12.766 --> 00:18:15.886
But if you create an environment where
you challenge your team to decide
00:18:16.226 --> 00:18:22.866
consistently what should be cut so
they can thrive, and also you, you are
00:18:22.866 --> 00:18:28.016
regularly giving-- You're moving beyond
giving people permission to disconnect.
00:18:28.026 --> 00:18:28.806
That's not enough.
00:18:29.056 --> 00:18:34.306
The moment pressure hits, people will
abandon their own productivity plans.
00:18:34.686 --> 00:18:38.436
But you s- you use your reputation
and your resources to signal to them
00:18:38.446 --> 00:18:41.716
like, "Look, no, I'm sponsoring for
you to stay deep consistently, to
00:18:41.716 --> 00:18:43.286
focus on the few things that matter."
00:18:44.076 --> 00:18:48.196
Now, all of a sudden, you're working
together as partner in a partnership
00:18:48.236 --> 00:18:49.806
to make sure that they can…
00:18:50.036 --> 00:18:52.386
You're trying to not only get clear,
but you're trying to collect that,
00:18:52.456 --> 00:18:55.646
you're trying to protect that clarity.
00:18:56.076 --> 00:18:59.616
And, and now all of a sudden, we're
working together in a way where by me
00:18:59.616 --> 00:19:03.386
slowing down, I'm hitting the brakes
more often, I'm clarifying what matters,
00:19:03.386 --> 00:19:04.846
I'm protecting your space to focus.
00:19:04.856 --> 00:19:06.046
We're creating team norms.
00:19:06.256 --> 00:19:10.076
Now, all of a sudden, we are
being realistic about what it
00:19:10.076 --> 00:19:13.486
will take for us to be productive
in a hyper-connected environment
00:19:14.515 --> 00:19:14.963
Donnie Tuttle: I love that.
00:19:14.973 --> 00:19:16.103
I, it is interesting.
00:19:16.103 --> 00:19:22.973
I, I, I do think that, um, we tend to
overestimate our resources, and especially
00:19:23.523 --> 00:19:28.273
w- we-- if, if focus or energy is a
resource, um, I would contend, sounds like
00:19:28.273 --> 00:19:30.523
you would contend also that, that it is.
00:19:30.743 --> 00:19:34.023
The truth is, is that it's finite.
00:19:34.033 --> 00:19:34.583
You don't, you don't
00:19:34.618 --> 00:19:34.828
Shawn: So
00:19:34.933 --> 00:19:35.313
Donnie Tuttle: like it's…
00:19:35.703 --> 00:19:36.133
Right?
00:19:37.083 --> 00:19:37.413
the…
00:19:38.153 --> 00:19:41.633
So would you consider yourself a,
a, a minimalist or an essentialist
00:19:41.643 --> 00:19:43.483
with this as it t- as it goes with-
00:19:43.835 --> 00:19:46.650
Shawn: Um, you know, I haven't
been throughout my life.
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:47.610
Let me tell you what happened.
00:19:47.610 --> 00:19:52.980
When we did this research, I saw how
I, with the very best of intentions,
00:19:53.010 --> 00:19:56.000
just tended to amplify chaos because
I was trying to get things done.
00:19:56.450 --> 00:19:59.690
And I, I, I overest- I
underestimated how long things take.
00:19:59.690 --> 00:20:03.450
I also underestimated the cost of
a U-turn, and when you're asking
00:20:03.450 --> 00:20:06.720
people to shift all the time,
how much, how expensive that is.
00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:11.470
And so in this research, what I
learned through these, this mindset
00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:14.770
and these micro behaviors, these little
pauses that anybody can do, and your
00:20:14.770 --> 00:20:15.970
team doesn't need all the pauses.
00:20:15.980 --> 00:20:19.740
They just need you to figure out
which pauses they do need from you.
00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:22.640
You know, things are stealing your
team's attention, and if you can pay
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.860
attention to your team's attention,
now all of a sudden you can figure out
00:20:25.860 --> 00:20:28.810
where that finite resource is going
and work with them to make sure that
00:20:28.810 --> 00:20:30.290
it's being spent on the right things.
00:20:30.580 --> 00:20:35.250
I think as I became aware of that through
this research, I can see times when
00:20:35.250 --> 00:20:38.390
I really did a great job at slowing
things down so my team can speed up.
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.490
And then there's other areas where
I can see, man, how distracting I've
00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:44.580
been and really amplified the chaos.
00:20:44.580 --> 00:20:48.240
And so I've always h- known that
you have to be serious about the
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.680
trade-offs to do anything big.
00:20:50.600 --> 00:20:53.230
I've also always known that
clarity's a big deal and that
00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:54.690
you've got to create clarity.
00:20:54.780 --> 00:21:00.610
I didn't necessarily understand
how I was the source of a lot
00:21:00.610 --> 00:21:02.590
of that distraction and how
00:21:02.757 --> 00:21:02.957
Donnie Tuttle: how
00:21:04.450 --> 00:21:08.700
Shawn: I could really be the opposite,
a source of massive amount of clarity
00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:12.180
and focus by becoming conscious
about this bias towards impact
00:21:12.336 --> 00:21:16.199
Donnie Tuttle: that you add
Yeah, I love, um, I love your…
00:21:16.469 --> 00:21:17.999
Well, I'm not looking
at the quiz right now.
00:21:17.999 --> 00:21:22.629
I took your quiz where you can find out
where you are w- causing some of the
00:21:22.629 --> 00:21:26.849
leak for your team, and I got faucet.
00:21:26.849 --> 00:21:31.079
I'm a bit of a leaky faucet, and I
looked, I'm like, "Okay, I think, I think
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:32.749
that I am," because, like, the, the…
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:36.259
In, in my case, I think, w-
um, I mean, there's a balance.
00:21:36.269 --> 00:21:39.989
Sometimes we, we don't want to be
overbearing, and what we do is we leave
00:21:39.989 --> 00:21:43.519
too much open to people's discretion,
and, and they need a little bit of, I
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:46.029
don't want to call it micromanagement,
but they need more details
00:21:46.218 --> 00:21:46.598
Shawn: Aha
00:21:46.919 --> 00:21:47.729
Donnie Tuttle: than what you're giving.
00:21:47.729 --> 00:21:53.219
And so it's, it's oftentimes the thing
that we're intending w- as leaders,
00:21:53.219 --> 00:21:58.219
especially if we're alone and w- we don't
have a partner like yourself with us,
00:21:58.669 --> 00:22:00.949
um, we actually can be doing the opposite
00:22:01.306 --> 00:22:01.736
Shawn: Yeah
00:22:01.829 --> 00:22:03.219
Donnie Tuttle: we're,
of what we're intending.
00:22:03.459 --> 00:22:09.179
I'm, I'm really curious about and,
and when I think environment, I
00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:14.329
think space, I think the constructs
of, of the, the t- the team meeting,
00:22:14.329 --> 00:22:15.759
whatever those things look like.
00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:18.759
They're on, they're on Zoom
more often now than ever.
00:22:19.639 --> 00:22:25.599
do we, how do we create space for
the pause, the space for people to, I
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:29.499
love how you called it the, the, the
sponsorship or the advocate of the,
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.869
of the person to get things done.
00:22:31.179 --> 00:22:35.369
How do we create that when we're
not really in control over h-
00:22:35.589 --> 00:22:36.949
half their environment sometimes?
00:22:36.949 --> 00:22:37.109
It's
00:22:37.215 --> 00:22:37.400
Shawn: Yeah.
00:22:40.070 --> 00:22:43.840
There are so many distractions
that we don't control, and that's
00:22:43.850 --> 00:22:45.670
part of the starting place.
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.100
So one of the things that every team
can do is run a distraction inventory.
00:22:51.270 --> 00:22:54.960
We talk about this in part of the
book where there's a two-part play.
00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:59.880
You wanna create team norms, we
call them house rules, where teams
00:22:59.890 --> 00:23:04.040
aren't wasting mental ener-energy
wondering what, wondering what to
00:23:04.040 --> 00:23:07.690
respond to, wondering which meetings
they have to go to, wondering
00:23:07.773 --> 00:23:08.273
Donnie Tuttle: wondering
00:23:08.540 --> 00:23:10.330
Shawn: they can go offline and go deep,
00:23:10.363 --> 00:23:10.863
Donnie Tuttle: deep,
00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:13.310
Shawn: if they've got to always
be on or mimic their leader.
00:23:13.310 --> 00:23:16.390
And so there's all of these things that
we see other people doing that if you can
00:23:16.390 --> 00:23:20.830
clarify what the expectation is for your
team through team norms or house rules,
00:23:20.853 --> 00:23:21.053
Donnie Tuttle: or house
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:24.710
Shawn: then now all of a sudden they can
start to make different decisions because
00:23:24.710 --> 00:23:26.640
they're clear on what has been defined.
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:27.650
Well,
00:23:28.043 --> 00:23:28.173
Donnie Tuttle: what's important.
00:23:29.610 --> 00:23:32.980
Shawn: one of the things that you do
before you set up house rules is you run
00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:37.090
a distraction inventory to figure out all
the things that are stealing your team's
00:23:37.090 --> 00:23:38.900
attention away from the top priorities,
00:23:39.143 --> 00:23:39.423
Donnie Tuttle: inventory.
00:23:39.530 --> 00:23:43.430
Shawn: look for the duplicates, and
then you ask yourself the question:
00:23:44.670 --> 00:23:46.300
Which of these do we control?
00:23:47.550 --> 00:23:49.640
A lot of them you don't, and
you're gonna have to figure
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:50.880
out, how do we cope with these?
00:23:50.890 --> 00:23:52.870
And you can work together to
come up with some really awesome
00:23:52.870 --> 00:23:54.940
solutions on how to cope with those.
00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:56.460
But a lot of them you do,
00:23:56.485 --> 00:23:56.665
Donnie Tuttle: of these
00:23:56.750 --> 00:23:59.870
Shawn: and that's where in the
margins you can start winning back
00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:03.820
ten percent, fifteen percent, thirty
percent of people's time to invest
00:24:03.821 --> 00:24:03.951
Donnie Tuttle: to
00:24:04.120 --> 00:24:07.510
Shawn: in deep thinking on
the most important thing that
00:24:07.520 --> 00:24:08.570
you care about as a leader.
00:24:10.230 --> 00:24:14.020
So this one-two punch of become aware
of what's distracting your team, a
00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:16.460
lot of times it's gonna be you, and
so we've got this fun little quiz on
00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:17.720
what are the ways that you might be.
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.200
You mentioned digitally distracting
people in your communication.
00:24:21.850 --> 00:24:22.340
And so
00:24:22.497 --> 00:24:22.667
Donnie Tuttle: that
00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:24.350
Shawn: communication's a big part of this.
00:24:24.350 --> 00:24:27.520
If you can become aware of the ways that
you are distracting people through your
00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:29.780
communication, that's a starting place.
00:24:29.780 --> 00:24:31.890
But then there are others
outside of communication where
00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:32.950
we find these distractions.
00:24:32.950 --> 00:24:34.850
But if you inventory those out and attack
00:24:34.927 --> 00:24:35.637
Donnie Tuttle: there are
other types of communication
00:24:35.650 --> 00:24:37.800
Shawn: the duplicates, the
ones that multiple people on
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:39.180
the team are suffering with
00:24:39.267 --> 00:24:39.357
Donnie Tuttle: with,
00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:43.470
Shawn: and the ones that you
can control, you will start to
00:24:43.470 --> 00:24:46.210
win back this time and energy
00:24:46.393 --> 00:24:47.068
Donnie Tuttle: time and
00:24:47.310 --> 00:24:50.830
Shawn: and people will feel
more satisfied with their work.
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.690
It will be exhilarating, and
they will love working for you
00:24:53.815 --> 00:24:54.827
Donnie Tuttle: working with you.
00:24:54.827 --> 00:24:55.087
Mm.
00:24:55.907 --> 00:24:56.517
I love it.
00:24:56.527 --> 00:24:59.137
So, uh, create the ground rules.
00:24:59.197 --> 00:25:02.327
Uh, would you advocate for
a, uh, a not-to-do list?
00:25:02.757 --> 00:25:03.777
Uh, whether
00:25:05.914 --> 00:25:07.234
Shawn: Yeah, I mean, I think so.
00:25:07.244 --> 00:25:11.934
There's, there's, um, we collected a
bunch of house rules that we loved.
00:25:11.994 --> 00:25:15.664
Uh, and, and you- if you can
create like a not to-do list,
00:25:15.664 --> 00:25:16.654
say, "Don't do these things.
00:25:16.664 --> 00:25:19.874
Thou shall not not do these things,"
then you can create the reverse of that.
00:25:19.874 --> 00:25:28.404
Like, like maybe we, we stop emailing
and texting after 6:00 unless it's an
00:25:28.404 --> 00:25:31.114
emergency, and an emergency equals X.
00:25:31.654 --> 00:25:35.534
Well, now all of a sudden, somebody
who just happens to be a night owl
00:25:36.594 --> 00:25:38.734
recognizes, "Oh yeah, you know what?
00:25:38.754 --> 00:25:41.694
I'm gonna use my little feature send
this tomorrow morning instead of send
00:25:41.694 --> 00:25:44.544
this right now," because you might
have some really highly conscientious
00:25:44.564 --> 00:25:46.134
individual that just can't say no.
00:25:46.484 --> 00:25:46.864
You know?
00:25:46.914 --> 00:25:50.144
They're gonna get on their email if
they know there's activity, but if it,
00:25:50.144 --> 00:25:53.914
if it cools down a little bit or they
know that they are absolutely given
00:25:53.914 --> 00:25:58.714
permission, even sponsorship to not be
in that conversation, it's cool that
00:25:58.724 --> 00:26:02.164
they're not in the know when they go in
the morning and there's been, you know,
00:26:02.164 --> 00:26:04.014
some night jammers jamming all night long.
00:26:04.484 --> 00:26:05.514
Uh, and that's okay.
00:26:05.514 --> 00:26:07.724
They don't need to know all
that stuff or that stand-up.
00:26:07.784 --> 00:26:10.124
They don't need to have FOMO, you
know, make them feel like that they
00:26:10.124 --> 00:26:11.384
should be jamming all night long.
00:26:11.384 --> 00:26:11.624
So
00:26:11.677 --> 00:26:11.969
Donnie Tuttle: should
00:26:12.115 --> 00:26:15.524
Shawn: you absolutely can
use thou shall nots to create
00:26:15.534 --> 00:26:17.034
these really fun house rules
00:26:17.235 --> 00:26:18.095
Donnie Tuttle: questions I love it.
00:26:18.175 --> 00:26:21.445
I, I'm, I'm gonna ask you to play
orchestrator for a moment, Sean.
00:26:21.915 --> 00:26:26.595
And, um, you know, uh, sometimes I
feel like the thing that gets in the
00:26:26.595 --> 00:26:29.735
way of what we should be doing is
the thing that we could be doing,
00:26:29.765 --> 00:26:34.175
and right now I, I could be vibe
coding, you know, uh, anything…
00:26:34.185 --> 00:26:38.055
Like, AI makes anything available
to anyone to do anything.
00:26:39.015 --> 00:26:42.585
how, how, how would you pull the
strings, and maybe you can use an
00:26:42.585 --> 00:26:45.365
organization that you've worked with
of just to make it more concrete.
00:26:45.365 --> 00:26:48.175
But we have, um, we have
people doing things.
00:26:48.175 --> 00:26:50.545
We have teams maybe that
are going after things.
00:26:50.545 --> 00:26:53.775
We have this now, this interplay, even
like the cool thing that you're doing,
00:26:54.155 --> 00:26:59.425
um, with, uh, with JAMI, where it is,
there's a interactiveness with this.
00:26:59.455 --> 00:27:02.275
How should we be using AI,
like to, in this whole mix?
00:27:02.275 --> 00:27:05.415
Because it, it could, it could
almost be one of these distractions
00:27:05.415 --> 00:27:07.185
if we're not being careful.
00:27:07.185 --> 00:27:08.325
So, like, what's the,
00:27:08.765 --> 00:27:09.242
Shawn: Yeah.
00:27:09.522 --> 00:27:11.572
So here's some fundamentals.
00:27:11.762 --> 00:27:13.762
We think about this all the time
'cause we're doing the same thing.
00:27:13.762 --> 00:27:18.422
We're using AI and we can say yes to more
now that's maybe not in our wheelhouse.
00:27:19.042 --> 00:27:22.542
So now you've just signed
up for additional activity.
00:27:22.572 --> 00:27:26.562
Or for me, I'm a sucker for a good
opportunity and I'm thinking, "Hey, maybe
00:27:26.562 --> 00:27:30.392
I could do some more marketing junk with
like an extra hour or two per week."
00:27:30.392 --> 00:27:33.372
But then the real truth is, when you
get into it to do great work, it's still
00:27:33.372 --> 00:27:36.742
gonna take you just as much time as
it would've done if you would've been
00:27:36.742 --> 00:27:37.982
pinning that stuff in the first place.
00:27:38.002 --> 00:27:38.522
Okay, I--
00:27:38.577 --> 00:27:39.057
Donnie Tuttle: All right
00:27:39.322 --> 00:27:42.002
Shawn: of course, there are gains
here, but let's be realistic.
00:27:42.152 --> 00:27:45.322
A lot of times when you spin up some
new opportunity, it's like this.
00:27:45.932 --> 00:27:50.512
If you pick up an opportunity, with
that you pick up a lot of problems
00:27:50.672 --> 00:27:55.302
'cause to scale any opportunity well
has a lot of obstacles in there.
00:27:55.432 --> 00:27:58.002
So let's not kid ourselves.
00:27:58.022 --> 00:28:02.702
If you can do more, you can-- you
are also inheriting more problems.
00:28:03.802 --> 00:28:07.842
So there's a lot of risk in being
naive to AI and, and saying,
00:28:07.852 --> 00:28:09.012
"Hey, wow, we can do everything."
00:28:09.012 --> 00:28:10.062
Now, there are wins.
00:28:10.062 --> 00:28:11.042
We know these wins.
00:28:11.052 --> 00:28:15.912
It can take a list of addresses
so easily and, you know, turn that
00:28:15.912 --> 00:28:19.592
into, you know, a, a way to send
books out to people or you know.
00:28:19.592 --> 00:28:22.372
You know, you can crunch data
sets, go get peer-reviewed articles
00:28:22.372 --> 00:28:23.172
in ways that you couldn't do.
00:28:23.172 --> 00:28:27.902
We know all this, but we also need to be
realistic about what are the things that
00:28:27.912 --> 00:28:32.522
if we start doing those in AI, that it's
gonna just give us a lot more obstacles
00:28:32.522 --> 00:28:35.642
and a lot more problems and challenges
to deal with, and that's gonna make it to
00:28:35.642 --> 00:28:38.572
where we're fractured and fragmented and
straddled, like you mentioned earlier.
00:28:38.572 --> 00:28:40.852
So it comes back to a fundamental reality.
00:28:42.302 --> 00:28:43.592
What is the priority?
00:28:44.102 --> 00:28:45.672
How much bandwidth do I have?
00:28:46.302 --> 00:28:49.912
Do I have space to really get into that?
00:28:49.932 --> 00:28:53.652
And there are companies out there that
are doing this exceptionally well.
00:28:53.662 --> 00:28:55.122
I love the example of GitLab.
00:28:55.972 --> 00:28:58.222
You know, GitLab, they've
been remote forever.
00:28:58.312 --> 00:29:00.772
They started in their early
days switching to being remote.
00:29:00.782 --> 00:29:05.012
They give people workspace control,
but they clarify what done looks
00:29:05.012 --> 00:29:07.252
like on a piece of work, and
they hold people accountable
00:29:07.252 --> 00:29:08.732
to doing little pieces of work.
00:29:09.072 --> 00:29:12.852
So you can know that we're
moving things forward, we can
00:29:13.031 --> 00:29:13.390
Donnie Tuttle: forward.
00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:13.750
We
00:29:13.802 --> 00:29:17.392
Shawn: use accountabi- clear work
flow-- clear priorities with clear
00:29:17.822 --> 00:29:19.362
workflow, with clear accountability.
00:29:19.512 --> 00:29:20.402
Now all of a sudden,
00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:21.036
Donnie Tuttle: a sudden,
00:29:21.052 --> 00:29:23.182
Shawn: creating an environment
that's gonna naturally pull people
00:29:23.182 --> 00:29:28.532
into a clear work stream that, that
they-- we can all measure together.
00:29:29.002 --> 00:29:29.412
And,
00:29:29.609 --> 00:29:29.999
Donnie Tuttle: And,
00:29:30.102 --> 00:29:30.752
Shawn: we're using
00:29:30.989 --> 00:29:31.429
Donnie Tuttle: using the deliverables
00:29:31.942 --> 00:29:35.092
Shawn: to our advantage to
help people stay on track,
00:29:35.139 --> 00:29:35.639
Donnie Tuttle: track.
00:29:35.672 --> 00:29:39.142
Shawn: because if they don't deliver, it
causes-- there's a consequence to that.
00:29:39.152 --> 00:29:45.412
So I think that the key is we have
entered a time where we're gonna-- we're
00:29:45.412 --> 00:29:49.262
even more likely to be overcommitted
and to overestimate what we can do,
00:29:49.562 --> 00:29:51.492
and that's gonna make things unclear.
00:29:51.772 --> 00:29:55.162
And so as leaders, we're gonna have
to protect our people from having
00:29:55.172 --> 00:29:57.062
stomachs bigger than, you know…
00:29:57.552 --> 00:29:59.322
With eyes bigger than
their stomach, if you will.
00:30:01.465 --> 00:30:01.681
Donnie Tuttle: So as leaders, we're
gonna have to protect our people
00:30:01.681 --> 00:30:01.801
from having stomachs bigger than, you
know, with eyes bigger than- Yeah.
00:30:01.801 --> 00:30:03.261
Do, do you feel like that if you were
to fast-forward five years and you
00:30:03.261 --> 00:30:06.711
were to redo your study, do you think
it would look different than what you
00:30:06.721 --> 00:30:10.791
found, for Pause in, in, in that book?
00:30:11.266 --> 00:30:14.816
Shawn: I really, I, you know, we just
wrapped up the study not too long ago,
00:30:14.816 --> 00:30:19.786
so we're kind of in, in this sweet spot
where we're, we're on the benefit of just
00:30:19.786 --> 00:30:26.346
having really recent research and these
behaviors be represented in the book.
00:30:26.596 --> 00:30:29.046
But in five years things will
change, like with all things.
00:30:29.066 --> 00:30:31.716
I think the underlying
principles, I hope they hold up.
00:30:31.716 --> 00:30:32.276
We'll see.
00:30:32.736 --> 00:30:37.486
There's gonna be w- different ways
in which we see, uh, this, but I
00:30:37.486 --> 00:30:38.906
have some people that have projected.
00:30:38.906 --> 00:30:42.306
I was just talking to a fellow by the
name Greg Powell, and he was saying, "You
00:30:42.306 --> 00:30:45.666
know, when I look at pause, I actually
think in five years we're gonna say, 'We
00:30:45.666 --> 00:30:49.406
need this more,' because we will have
naively marched into over-committing
00:30:49.406 --> 00:30:54.956
ourselves in, in ways as AI grows and
as we try to accelerate even faster
00:30:54.956 --> 00:30:59.666
and further, that we are going to
have let go people, let go people.
00:30:59.666 --> 00:31:04.596
We, we are going to be in a position where
people are expected to do much more and
00:31:04.596 --> 00:31:09.326
they have less time to think and, and the,
and that we're just gonna be doing poor
00:31:09.326 --> 00:31:14.046
work as a result, and that we're gonna
need a concept like pause even more."
00:31:14.226 --> 00:31:17.546
So, hey, let's call-- let's
connect in five years and
00:31:17.546 --> 00:31:20.166
see, uh, what we would update.
00:31:20.905 --> 00:31:20.914
Donnie Tuttle: Sure.
00:31:20.914 --> 00:31:21.095
I, I, I, I wonder, Shawn, if you could,
if you could, the, like, like, I'm
00:31:21.095 --> 00:31:21.793
imagining someone driving home right
now, they're listening to this, um, and
00:31:21.793 --> 00:31:23.003
maybe they're not gonna read through,
through the book, they're, but they're,
00:31:34.243 --> 00:31:35.623
'cause they're juggling all of the things.
00:31:35.803 --> 00:31:36.013
How
00:31:36.090 --> 00:31:36.500
Shawn: Yeah
00:31:36.593 --> 00:31:37.103
Donnie Tuttle: How can I pause?
00:31:37.373 --> 00:31:40.793
I want, I wanna know, let's just imagine
you're, like, the leader of all companies.
00:31:40.803 --> 00:31:43.653
You've just now been made
supreme chancellor of, um,
00:31:43.763 --> 00:31:45.213
all business across America.
00:31:45.693 --> 00:31:48.613
And, and now you're speaking to that
person in the car, and I'm wondering
00:31:48.613 --> 00:31:52.543
if you could give them maybe the,
the conversation where they get
00:31:52.543 --> 00:31:56.843
permission and sponsorship to pause
00:31:57.285 --> 00:31:57.694
Shawn: Okay.
00:31:58.584 --> 00:32:00.024
Well, let me do a few.
00:32:00.054 --> 00:32:01.464
Let me take it a scenario.
00:32:01.464 --> 00:32:06.044
Let's pretend that I actually have
a new piece of work that I want
00:32:06.044 --> 00:32:10.864
to give you, which is happening
for us as leaders all the time.
00:32:10.864 --> 00:32:14.974
We're delegating and we're constantly,
nonstop del- in a position where
00:32:14.974 --> 00:32:16.294
we are responsible to delegate.
00:32:16.364 --> 00:32:18.854
And instead of just saying, "Hey,
Donnie, I got something that
00:32:18.864 --> 00:32:19.994
will only take five minutes.
00:32:20.004 --> 00:32:20.814
Can you take a look?"
00:32:23.170 --> 00:32:24.730
Well, you're laughing
because you know what?
00:32:24.807 --> 00:32:25.607
Donnie Tuttle: 'Cause I said it.
00:32:26.457 --> 00:32:28.517
I'm sorry I've said that, but keep going.
00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:30.950
Shawn: 'Cause you also know in your guilt,
00:32:31.007 --> 00:32:31.377
Donnie Tuttle: out.
00:32:31.590 --> 00:32:35.470
Shawn: in your shame, me t- me too,
that it's never gonna take five minutes.
00:32:36.250 --> 00:32:40.350
And I've also completely ignored and
disrespected what you're probably
00:32:40.350 --> 00:32:42.890
working on, that it might be way
more important than this thing that
00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:45.680
I want you to do that's gonna take
five minutes, but I'm just trying to
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:47.500
get this hot potato out of my hands.
00:32:47.850 --> 00:32:48.670
Let's say I don't do that.
00:32:48.670 --> 00:32:51.730
Let's say instead of a drive-by
delegation, what if I say, "Hey,
00:32:52.120 --> 00:32:53.420
Donnie, what are you working on?"
00:32:53.750 --> 00:32:56.330
And you tell me, and I say, "Oh, okay.
00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:58.980
I've got this thing that I just
got from this client, and I'm
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.870
just wondering, what would it…
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.930
Here, here's what it is.
00:33:01.930 --> 00:33:03.260
Here's who's asking for it.
00:33:03.460 --> 00:33:05.340
What would it take for
you to do this well?"
00:33:06.710 --> 00:33:08.080
So now I know what you're working on.
00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:09.760
Now you know what I have.
00:33:10.510 --> 00:33:16.060
You've just told me what it would take you
to do that well, and then I say, "Hey, if
00:33:16.060 --> 00:33:20.710
you were to say yes to this, what are the
other things that you'd be saying no to?
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:22.490
Not just the thing that
you just told me about."
00:33:23.620 --> 00:33:24.980
I'm tuning in with you.
00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:31.270
I'm assuming that you have finite
resources and that you're already
00:33:31.270 --> 00:33:34.240
doing something important that
we worked really hard to clarify.
00:33:35.090 --> 00:33:39.790
And by tuning in with you before I
ask you to jump in, I also show you
00:33:39.790 --> 00:33:42.230
respect, and s- you're gonna be seen.
00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:45.400
So the likelihood that y- I'm gonna get
your discretional effort's gonna go up.
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:48.610
And also, the likelihood that you
and I are gonna be partners together
00:33:48.610 --> 00:33:53.170
in making trade-offs is born,
whereas before it wasn't even there.
00:33:53.540 --> 00:33:59.320
So if I was the supreme chancellor
of all work, I would say start here.
00:33:59.730 --> 00:34:02.900
When you delegate, tune
in before you jump in.
00:34:03.020 --> 00:34:08.570
Now, beyond that, there's so many pauses
in here that I love with my whole soul,
00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:12.010
that I'm so grateful to have learned
from these leaders, which by the way,
00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:14.410
not me, but these leaders we studied.
00:34:14.590 --> 00:34:18.170
I love this idea of, uh, there's a
chapter in there called Coach Through
00:34:18.170 --> 00:34:19.700
Failure, and here's how it looks.
00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:24.320
Left uncoached, all failures hijack focus.
00:34:24.340 --> 00:34:25.220
You and I both know this.
00:34:25.300 --> 00:34:27.210
You, you screw up, you ruminate.
00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:30.980
So people replay failure
over and over and over again.
00:34:31.190 --> 00:34:31.560
It gets…
00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:33.110
They get stuck in a rumination loop.
00:34:33.150 --> 00:34:35.400
So one of the things that you can
do as a leader is whenever you give
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.030
somebody an important piece of work,
you just simply sit down and say,
00:34:38.580 --> 00:34:42.130
"Let's brainstorm all the ways that we
could see this going off the rails."
00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:43.250
That's it.
00:34:43.740 --> 00:34:46.910
Just start with a, a list of all the ways
that you could see it going off the rails
00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:51.220
and then say, "If that happens, if it
goes off the rails in one of these ways
00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:53.330
or another way, let's agree on something.
00:34:54.030 --> 00:34:57.470
We will identify the failure and
then figure out what the first
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.390
thing that you can do to get back
on track so you stop ruminating."
00:35:03.207 --> 00:35:04.017
Donnie Tuttle: Let's go.
00:35:04.127 --> 00:35:04.627
I love it.
00:35:04.677 --> 00:35:07.337
I mean, as a coach, like, I'm gonna
put that one into play this week.
00:35:07.687 --> 00:35:10.097
Uh, that's, that is gold.
00:35:11.147 --> 00:35:15.077
And listen, if, if you are,
you are leading people,
00:35:15.077 --> 00:35:17.977
tune in before you jump in.
00:35:17.997 --> 00:35:19.787
And I just, I love the
way that you framed it.
00:35:19.787 --> 00:35:21.857
Like, what would, what would it
take for you to do this well?
00:35:21.857 --> 00:35:24.097
I just feel like now
you're partnering with me.
00:35:24.127 --> 00:35:27.367
I feel so respected, almost like
you're, you're contracting with
00:35:27.367 --> 00:35:30.577
me to do this thing, and you're
trusting me to do something well.
00:35:30.907 --> 00:35:32.127
Uh, what would you have to say no to?
00:35:32.147 --> 00:35:34.127
That, that is, that is beautiful.
00:35:34.447 --> 00:35:37.277
Sean, you have absolutely
brought the thunder.
00:35:37.287 --> 00:35:38.357
Where can we find you?
00:35:38.357 --> 00:35:39.767
Because y- you have a great book.
00:35:39.807 --> 00:35:40.987
You do keynotes.
00:35:41.327 --> 00:35:44.607
Uh, we need to be taking this
how distracting are you quiz.
00:35:44.617 --> 00:35:46.757
Like, see if you're a
leaky faucet like me.
00:35:47.037 --> 00:35:48.137
Where can people find you?
00:35:48.137 --> 00:35:48.707
What, what do you…
00:35:48.747 --> 00:35:49.757
How do you want us to play with you?
00:35:50.405 --> 00:35:53.652
Shawn: We've spun up a
site called pausebook.co.
00:35:54.072 --> 00:35:57.322
You can take the quiz out there, you
can get access to other resources.
00:35:57.502 --> 00:36:00.112
You can, uh, buy-- We've got…
00:36:00.142 --> 00:36:03.532
If you get the book, you can get
access to Jam AI, which is an AI to
00:36:03.542 --> 00:36:06.222
help you work through distractions.
00:36:06.252 --> 00:36:09.382
Um, right now we're in the beg-
we're in the end of August.
00:36:09.392 --> 00:36:12.492
The Jam release is in a few weeks,
so for most people that hear
00:36:12.492 --> 00:36:14.192
this, Jam will already be out.
00:36:14.632 --> 00:36:18.052
So, uh, pausebook.co.com.
00:36:18.142 --> 00:36:21.932
And then also just gra- you know, uh,
conne- let's connect on LinkedI- LinkedIn.
00:36:22.202 --> 00:36:26.452
Um, would love to hear what
you're thinking a- and how
00:36:26.452 --> 00:36:27.272
we can be helpful to you.
00:36:28.665 --> 00:36:29.075
Donnie Tuttle: Okay.
00:36:29.105 --> 00:36:33.285
Well, um, I think you've earned
your office of, of Supreme
00:36:33.285 --> 00:36:35.145
Chancellor of all work today.
00:36:37.165 --> 00:36:40.265
Sean VanderHeuven, thank you
so much for being with us.
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And guys, listen, you've just gotten
better at leading, and if you can
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lead better, you can live better.
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Thank you, Sean
00:36:49.656 --> 00:36:50.306
Shawn: Thanks, Donnie.
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Good luck everyone