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After 40 years in the trade, you learn a few things.
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You can make a living 8 to 5, but you can make a life from 5 to midnight.
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The electrical industry is on the cutting edge.
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High risk, high reward.
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It's a necessary one, but potentially fatal, always changing, and poised to enter the
future leading the charge.
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You can be a part of the industry for a long time and still need to redefine what it is
you do.
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What does it take to last in the industry?
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It's a trade that might seem at odds with itself, filled with old-school grappling of
staying current.
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If they don't rise with the wave, they go under.
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What's a legacy?
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It's something you leave behind.
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It's long lasting and positive, you hope.
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It's something you build, something to be remembered by.
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It's how people think of you and talk about you when you're not around.
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It comes from the things you do and how you do them.
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I kind of had to refer back to what my initial understanding of what a legacy was and
that's typically something that's very, very important.
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It's not something he thinks about often, but electrician, CEO.
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and founder of Patriot Electric, David Moss, has had time to work on his legacy.
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He's only been doing this for 40 years.
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So maybe some people's legacy is going to be a book they wrote or a car they built or a
home they built.
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that's
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a symbolic piece of legacy.
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From a business point of view, it's like I mentioned, it's more of the ability to
persevere, change, take risks, stay on point with your quality and determination for
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always doing what's right.
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A job has to be pretty special for someone to stick it out for such a long time.
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Let's rewind.
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What makes someone want to go into the industry in the first place?
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looking at being an electrician or considering my next phase in my life was when I was
around 20.
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The beauty of that was I was coming out of a family-run business of photo finishing.
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We were the second lab in Victoria.
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Long story short, I didn't see myself quote-unquote spending the rest of my days in the
dark working with chemicals.
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So in photo finishing I said no there's no way I'm more of an outdoorsy kind of guy.
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I said all right shift gears what am going to have my options?
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Well dad's a mechanical contractor, twin brother's a general contractor, framer.
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Well, we don't got no damn electricians in the family.
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So then I said to myself, okay, do I want to be a plumber like my dad?
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And you know what happens?
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Shit flows downhill, paydays and Friday.
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And or do I want to sling around a foreign plywood that weighs about 90 pounds a sheet
like my brother in...
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knee-high mud and then stepping on electric cords that don't have proper grounds and
getting shocked and shit and so on.
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Just because you might not get rained on, don't think it's all sunshine and roses.
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I was working 16 hours a day, sometimes seven days a week when I first started in my 20s
and in my early 30s.
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And I'd be driving sometimes all the way till midnight and then be back at home, go to
bed, get up at 6 30, go to work.
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That's just what we did.
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You can make a living eight to five, but you can make a life from five to midnight.
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If you expect to be able to live like you want to live, you weren't going to accomplish
that in a nine to five job.
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There was nobody that I saw working nine to five, living the way I wanted to live.
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I guess you could say the school of hard knocks, which is basically putting you through
the struggle because if there's no struggle, there's no reward.
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And so that's when I started to get in the trade and say, all right, I'm doing my thing.
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I'm becoming an entrepreneur.
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I'm in control of my future, but I'm not financially where I want to be.
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David's a big believer in knowing exactly what you want.
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Maybe not when or how to get it, right out of the gate.
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But you need to make it to the track.
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For David, it all started with a picture on a fridge.
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I have a lake home on my refrigerator with a dog in the dock and some kids.
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And that stayed on my fridge since I was 20 years old, all the way until I was 44 years
old.
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That same picture.
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Took it off and threw it away twice.
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I didn't actually throw it in the garbage, I just...
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give it this one here.
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In frustration and disappointment.
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Almost gave up.
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But didn't.
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David's been in the industry for a while now.
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He's seen it change.
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He's seen the people change.
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For the health of the industry, it has to.
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It needs to keep up in the world.
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It needs new blood.
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But there's just a tiny issue with that.
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What I found over the industry over the last 20...
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I guess 23 years that I've been in it, is that young people are changing.
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So they're not work ready.
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That's Mark Chappell, senior project manager at Patriot Electric.
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A tale as old as time.
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The military has slang for its recruits fresh out of basic training.
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F-N-G.
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F-ing new guy.
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Everybody has to start somewhere.
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But it's a real concern in an industry like electrical, where one wrong move
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can be your last.
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For one thing, it's the difference in mindset.
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When they hit the industry, they're not ready to work.
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They don't know what's expected of them.
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They don't understand that this is the job you have to do to get to the job you actually
want.
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So they all get into the industry thinking that, I'm to be somewhat important.
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So you got to pay your dues, then you get there.
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So there's an expectation that is completely unfounded in today's youth.
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They watch all these guys play video games on YouTube and think that, hey, I can make
money playing video games.
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No, you can't.
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You got to have a personality.
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You got to have the right game.
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You got to be the right time.
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There's a lot of things that these guys did that you're not just going to magically know
how to do.
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So they don't think you to pay their dues, which is probably my biggest problem with
today's youth in the industry, unrealistic expectations.
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What do you do if the next generation doesn't seem prepared?
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How do you hand over the keys to the kingdom?
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How do you entrust all that you've built, all the work you put into it over decades to
newcomers?
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Yeah.
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The biggest thing that I think that they need to understand is they need to have patience.
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They need to be able to think outside of the box, approach things from a different angle.
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And it's not necessarily about always knowing the answer, it's about knowing how to find
the answer.
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You don't have to know everything, you just have to be able to find out how to figure it
out.
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So in my career, there's been plenty of times where I've walked into something where
there's no instruction manual for it.
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There's nothing you can find for it, but you manufacturer's a phone call away.
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It's knowing that you can do that and feeling comfortable doing that, picking up the phone
and making that call.
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that's going to make you stand out from the rest.
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even then, picking up the phone at all can be terrifying for younger people today.
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We're so ingrained in, you know, texting, you know, just calling and talking to people.
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It's hard for people sometimes, right?
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Just talking to people now.
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That's Paul Goetz, engineer and training project coordinator at Patriot Electric.
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I think we still got some place.
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We got some things to work on there, definitely.
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Confidence in just, you know, getting stuff done and, you know, being able to talk to
people.
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I think it's just.
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people getting out there, right?
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Because for me, it's, you know, we're very behind the screen nowadays.
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Paul is newer to the industry than David and Mark, but David wouldn't have taken him on if
he didn't think he could handle himself.
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These guys like Paul, very few guys like Paul, that'll actually go ahead and jump in both
feet and learn it and not be scared of it, even though it's not part of their profession
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or whatever.
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He just did what was asked of him and respectfully for the overall benefit of the team and
the company, he's doing that.
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As these types of people,
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And there's other people like that in the trade that are willing to go outside the box to
learn and to do.
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And by that, they're going to become the experts and the leaders in what they're doing
because they were able to say, no, I don't know how to do that.
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Or that's not part of my this or that's not this.
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No, no.
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But the positive attitude.
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Yeah, I'll figure that out.
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Or no, I don't know, but I'll figure it out.
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Or no, I don't know right now, but I'll get back to you.
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You could probably say that any of your cohorts or anybody around the same discipline
you're in.
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If they can attribute to those kinds of skills and attitudes, they're going to be able to
excel.
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So having those soft skills that are missing from today's youth is what really you need to
get into this industry, feel.
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Well, how you develop those soft skills, right?
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Like Marcus mentioned, he says, they're not ready.
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They're not ready to work.
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Well, how do we get them ready to work?
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I think that all has to start in high school.
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When I was going to high school, they had the trades programs in the school where you
could, you know, do some mechanics work, wood shop, like all those sorts of things.
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I feel like the other classes that are mandatory to take, you know, your sciences, your
maths, all your social studies, English, those should also be incorporated in those real
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world soft skills.
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That's the only way we're really going to get these youth ready for this, right?
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So I thought they get to university.
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it's almost too late.
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Now you're trying to learn all these skills while you're trying to learn how to work,
that's just an immense amount of additional pressure that you could not have if you would
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have learned those skills at an earlier age.
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And obviously parents can help with that to some degree, but by and large, work, your mom
and dad aren't there to help you.
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So what better place to learn that than in school when your mom and dad aren't there to
help you?
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Probably their biggest challenge is their own insecurities, not necessarily feeling like
they can do the job.
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And a large part of that is because you're working with people that are very good at what
they do and you never really had that experience unless you were in sports or something
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like that where you excelled at where you knew, hey, I can learn this.
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They don't have that confidence that they can do this.
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They can learn this unless they've actually done that in their personal lives or
athletics.
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It's really difficult for them to do that and they don't have the problem solving
abilities.
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So that's also hindering them in the industry because if you walk into a situation and
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your mom and dad have solved all your problems for you all your life, you have no problem
solving skills.
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So that's another thing that's really hurt the young kids coming in industry.
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So the ones that I find are that excel as at a young age in the industry, I'm sure Dave
can personally attest to this, are the farm boys, farm girls, because they've had to solve
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their own problems their whole lives.
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Nobody's come to rescue them.
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I would love to have a company full of farm kids.
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Great, great kids, hard workers, they problem solve, they think outside of the box,
because they've always had to.
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If they could teach that to all the other kids, that'd be great.
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We have a very healthy industry.
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But at the same time, the next generation of electricians are facing other kinds of
challenges.
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They're overcoming different barriers.
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There's still going to be the school that hard knocks.
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Their barriers might be different barriers than my barriers were.
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For almost anybody going through coming up from ground zero is going to be financial.
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That's going to be the number one.
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they're coming to work into a bigger city or into where the colleges are, they're
sometimes seeing themselves bunk with a house with 10 to 12 people.
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Now think about this.
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So they rent a house, there's one bed in the house, there's 10 to 12 other young
individuals there.
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Think about the distractions in there and with the workload and the focus that it takes to
become a tradesperson and become a star at it.
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Whereas when I talk to these young kids now that are coming through that are renting rooms
in houses with all the distractions.
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Well, first of all, they're getting
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pulled away from their focus and their study time.
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They're getting distractions.
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They're trying to feed themselves.
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They're trying to, you know, get to work, get home, stay committed.
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It's like they're just getting bombarded with all that.
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So they can get knocked off the rails real quick.
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Well, a lot of them are dropping out.
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I sit on the Apprenticeship Advising Council Board for Camosco College.
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I'm the longest standing member there right now.
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I've been on that since 2001.
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And so each year or at least every six months, we're going to be doing every six months,
getting together with all the stakeholders in the industry.
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And we talk about how the, what's, what's impacting the industry, what's happening and so
on and so forth.
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But the, the common thing is about the apprentices coming up is that there, there's a real
struggle with them coming down from the interior to find a combination to stay here while
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they're going to college.
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And if they do, how can they afford that?
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And if they do get a job.
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you know, where they're to stay, that's the number one thing.
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That's their first thing, their most concern is where am going to stay, where am going to
live?
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And then from there they have to worry about, you know, paying rent, paying groceries,
getting tuned from work.
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It's a big task.
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It knocks 20 to 40 % of the kids right out of the market after the second or third year.
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They just can't do it.
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They just can't do it.
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You'd think that being raised on technology would make the next generation of electricians
adept at doing this sort of work.
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You'd be...
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Well, it's changing for the good and the bad, obviously.
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On the negative side, I've definitely seen a reduction in productivity.
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The next generation that's coming up doesn't have the same work ethic that I grew up with
or that David has grown up with.
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There's a lot more time-wasting activities, people on their phones.
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And so in some ways, technology has been a hindrance to the industry, I feel.
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But obviously in other ways, it's been a benefit.
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You know, can quickly and easily Google something you don't know how to do or something
you don't know how to fix.
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You can quickly and easily watch YouTube videos for tutorials on how to actually...
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install something, so there's a lot of great benefits to technology.
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And that would be the greatest adder to the sites.
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I feel is technology.
215
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You can go on to any job site and you can document everything via video.
216
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That can all be put onto a 3d modeling.
217
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So there's a lot of amazing innovations on the job sites that are brought by tech.
218
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There's nothing more important than when you, you walk away from a textbook or an
environment where it's controlled and you walk into an uncontrolled environment without a
219
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textbook.
220
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And now you're relying on the environment that you're in and you.
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need to execute the solution physically to make it right.
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And then the bonus of that is the praise you're going to get back, whether it be the
homeowner or the superintendent, that's when you start to gain your confidence and your
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ability to grow and learn and then pass that on as experience to another EIT, another
co-op or another apprentice electrician.
224
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So this gap that we have, I think the first thing that's going to involve is training.
225
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The training comes in mostly from the private sector.
226
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The education is going to be coming from mainly either the colleges that are going to be
227
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influenced in changing their course loads.
228
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So that's what we're as stakeholders when we come in to talk to the colleges at least
every six months to a year, we're always talking about, okay well we're seeing these
229
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shifts in the industry on technology.
230
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This is what our customers are asking for, this is what we're providing, this is what
we're going after and your apprentices aren't doing anything to do with that.
231
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But that is such a big shift that takes so long to turn that generally speaking by the
time that that's implemented you're two and three years down the road maybe even more.
232
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That's a losing proposition for the students entering the trade.
233
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But there's a fix.
234
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One that David has already tapped into.
235
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So the alternative to that is we either need to train ourselves.
236
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In-house training is absolutely the best.
237
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When you're trying to build a dynasty, you hit the market for free agents or you grow your
own electricians.
238
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We can't always get the best, but the best that we can get, we want them and we'll pay
them accordingly.
239
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And then if they're not the best, want to train them to be the best and to bring them up
from where they are.
240
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There's a huge cost involved with that training, obviously, that companies like Patriot or
like GE have to bear.
241
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We understand that that's a real thing that we're going to have to do if we want to have
quality employees going forward.
242
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Dave's, he's always been someone who's very much supported the colleges and the industries
here.
243
00:15:24,308 --> 00:15:29,478
So he's taken a basically a lead on that as far as the city of Victoria goes from what I
understand.
244
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And more people need to do that.
245
00:15:31,502 --> 00:15:36,185
You need to get more involvement from all these different firms in the industry to get
these guys work ready.
246
00:15:36,246 --> 00:15:37,407
Guys, gals, sorry.
247
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They just got to get them up to snuff.
248
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And there's no other way to do that other than teach them.
249
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Because they're not getting that from a young age.
250
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They're not getting that in school.
251
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It's when they get to the workforce.
252
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it's, now it's incumbent upon us to teach them how to do that.
253
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that is the best way to do it.
254
00:15:51,599 --> 00:15:54,542
If we grow our own team, we train the way our culture is.
255
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We train our mannerisms.
256
00:15:55,983 --> 00:15:58,505
We train them with our quality assurances.
257
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The senior electricians...
258
00:16:00,172 --> 00:16:03,543
are going to be seasoned in our culture, in our ways.
259
00:16:03,603 --> 00:16:08,484
And generally speaking, more of the troubleshooting and experience side of things.
260
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The new generation coming in are probably going to be Google savvy on a lot of shit.
261
00:16:13,124 --> 00:16:19,287
And they're going to be also savvy on what the code says, but how to put that together
when they arrive there.
262
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That's why you need to have, and it's required by, by code.
263
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:29,480
The journeymen have two to three apprentices at most supervision on the site.
264
00:16:29,728 --> 00:16:34,281
Matter of fact, in some cases it's one to one, but rarely is it one journeyman to three
apprentices.
265
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Generally it's one to two.
266
00:16:35,701 --> 00:16:42,605
So that's where you have that on-site personalized supervision and training because they
need it.
267
00:16:42,605 --> 00:16:45,406
Electricians need to look out for one another.
268
00:16:45,427 --> 00:16:51,830
When things go wrong in a trade like this, you don't often get to make the same mistake
twice.
269
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Let's make one thing clear.
270
00:16:53,391 --> 00:16:55,402
You don't mess around with electricity.
271
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I can't say enough good things about electrical industry, construction in general.
272
00:16:58,363 --> 00:16:59,726
There's obviously, know,
273
00:16:59,726 --> 00:17:04,246
There's horror stories, you hear them all the time, you see them all the time, but by and
large, my life's been good.
274
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There's some dangerous things as a part of our industry.
275
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Like every time you drive past power lines and you see a hard hat glued to the bottom of
those power lines, a line's been life was lost.
276
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So there are horror stories in the industry.
277
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I'm just lucky that I've never been a part of them, right?
278
00:17:18,766 --> 00:17:26,646
I've heard about them, I've talked to people who have been a part of them or seen people
that have had, you know, horrific accidents, but I've been very fortunate to always be
279
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very safe and have a crew people around me that have, you know,
280
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done their utmost to make sure that I went home every night.
281
00:17:32,486 --> 00:17:36,086
So I've been very fortunate that way, but there is horror stories out there, 100%.
282
00:17:36,086 --> 00:17:51,246
When I was a first brand new apprentice electrician, I was working with a senior
journeyman who took me to meet two retired injured electricians, both high voltage
283
00:17:51,246 --> 00:17:53,986
accidents, but both still alive.
284
00:17:53,986 --> 00:17:55,566
One of them had his legs blown off.
285
00:17:55,566 --> 00:17:58,706
He was in a wheelchair and he was still alive.
286
00:17:58,706 --> 00:17:59,712
That was horrific.
287
00:17:59,712 --> 00:18:01,143
introduction to him.
288
00:18:01,243 --> 00:18:10,609
The other gentleman I met who another high voltage accident had his skin melted off, break
down both arms and he was wearing plastic shields.
289
00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:13,982
those were enough to talk about horror.
290
00:18:13,982 --> 00:18:16,813
There's no room for mistakes in the electrical trade.
291
00:18:17,114 --> 00:18:18,235
They're deadly.
292
00:18:18,235 --> 00:18:18,785
There's deadly.
293
00:18:18,785 --> 00:18:19,896
You're going to be dead.
294
00:18:19,896 --> 00:18:20,956
You'll be dead.
295
00:18:20,956 --> 00:18:29,612
I mean if you come out of an electrical accident alive, there's an angel watching over you
and it wasn't your time but generally you don't get that chance.
296
00:18:29,866 --> 00:18:44,410
So it was a real wake-up call for that's why it's so rigorous and testing and education
and the amount of safety requirements are for a real good reason.
297
00:18:44,410 --> 00:18:48,551
And our flashes are like I said before, they're the surface of the sun temperature.
298
00:18:48,551 --> 00:18:50,332
So there's no coming back from that.
299
00:18:50,332 --> 00:18:54,473
I always heard all the time, everybody will try to do their electrical but nobody will do
their own plumbing.
300
00:18:54,473 --> 00:18:59,234
Nobody wants to clean up a water mask but they don't mind taking a chance at electrocuting
themselves.
301
00:18:59,234 --> 00:19:00,455
You're picking the wrong one, man.
302
00:19:00,455 --> 00:19:01,915
You can clean up water.
303
00:19:02,156 --> 00:19:04,276
You can't unburn your skin.
304
00:19:04,477 --> 00:19:07,358
Or you can't non-unburn your house down.
305
00:19:07,678 --> 00:19:09,870
yeah, there's definitely a lot of people try to do it themselves.
306
00:19:09,870 --> 00:19:14,522
And then they typically, when they get in trouble, they call an actual electrician to come
and take care of it.
307
00:19:20,290 --> 00:19:24,013
Big part of being an electrician is being hands-on.
308
00:19:24,374 --> 00:19:30,559
Having someone watching over your shoulder, making sure you don't kill yourself is a
pretty big deal.
309
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:32,260
But it's more than that.
310
00:19:32,260 --> 00:19:34,722
Having a mentor is essential.
311
00:19:34,842 --> 00:19:40,907
David's been through it, and he knows the value of having one, if not becoming one
himself.
312
00:19:40,907 --> 00:19:42,188
They're not just numbers.
313
00:19:42,188 --> 00:19:42,759
They're people.
314
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:43,599
want to try it again.
315
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,252
You guys have heard me say this all through the whole conversation here.
316
00:19:46,252 --> 00:19:49,524
Have them identify what they want and help them get it.
317
00:19:49,678 --> 00:19:51,898
You know, because see, that's what someone did for me.
318
00:19:51,898 --> 00:19:57,218
I didn't sacrifice my dreams and settle for something.
319
00:19:57,418 --> 00:20:04,098
I was always surrounded by people that encouraged me to stretch and reach higher, equip
yourself.
320
00:20:04,098 --> 00:20:09,918
I was always taught, you know what, you need to find the people that are living the way
you want to live, taking the vacations you want to take and doing the things you want to
321
00:20:09,918 --> 00:20:10,038
do.
322
00:20:10,038 --> 00:20:13,418
And then you want to find how to become their apprentice and or be mentored by them.
323
00:20:13,418 --> 00:20:15,068
That's where the mentorship comes in.
324
00:20:15,068 --> 00:20:18,980
And see, that's where you're to hear Dave Moss talking about
325
00:20:19,084 --> 00:20:26,670
That's what we have to offer this new generation, this generation coming behind us that's
maybe struggling trying to figure out how are ever going to do this, how are we ever going
326
00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:27,501
to have any more.
327
00:20:27,501 --> 00:20:29,882
Well, you better find a freaking mentor.
328
00:20:30,984 --> 00:20:34,146
If you don't have one straight up, good luck.
329
00:20:35,187 --> 00:20:37,428
And I sincerely mean that, good luck.
330
00:20:37,469 --> 00:20:40,531
But I couldn't do it without one.
331
00:20:40,531 --> 00:20:49,258
I needed someone to turn to to call in the night or in the evenings or when I'm sitting
there freaking out on what decision should I make.
332
00:20:49,406 --> 00:20:53,279
and knew that I could contact someone that had a personal interest in me.
333
00:20:53,279 --> 00:21:01,524
And it wasn't just a paid conversation, it was a friendship conversation that could
actually sincerely guide me and open a door.
334
00:21:01,524 --> 00:21:07,979
And then you talk about loyalty, that's when you develop loyalties that are lifelong,
cherished memories.
335
00:21:07,979 --> 00:21:10,981
You can pass those same things right onto the next generation.
336
00:21:10,981 --> 00:21:19,446
My advice to young kids that would be looking into the trades right now, pick one where
you feel like you can excel with your skill set that you currently have.
337
00:21:19,522 --> 00:21:23,845
Don't necessarily overreach so you you can't get past a grade eight education.
338
00:21:23,845 --> 00:21:25,836
Don't go into electrical, right?
339
00:21:25,836 --> 00:21:27,007
It's not the trade for you.
340
00:21:27,007 --> 00:21:31,080
There's drywall, there's painting, there's scaffolders, there's lots of other trades that
you can do.
341
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,101
You can still work with your hands.
342
00:21:32,101 --> 00:21:37,274
You can still be engaged in a job site that you could do with your limited education.
343
00:21:37,274 --> 00:21:39,336
So work with your strengths.
344
00:21:39,336 --> 00:21:42,017
Get into a field where you can actually utilize your strengths.
345
00:21:42,017 --> 00:21:49,090
So if you're a big strong farm kid, good chance that you can be an electrician, good
chance you can be a plumber, you can be a pipe fitter, you can be steam fitter.
346
00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:54,892
gas fitter, lots of heavy lifting stuff that those kids could be, they could really excel
at.
347
00:21:54,892 --> 00:22:05,837
If you're a more academically minded person, electrical is a great trade for you because
there's a lot of electrical math theory that you really need in order to actually be
348
00:22:05,837 --> 00:22:07,618
successful in this industry.
349
00:22:07,618 --> 00:22:12,860
So utilize your strengths and don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid of
failure.
350
00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:17,121
That's one of the biggest things that I would love for kids to understand is life is
failure.
351
00:22:17,121 --> 00:22:18,702
It's all about failure.
352
00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:20,551
You fail every single day.
353
00:22:20,551 --> 00:22:24,172
It's how you learn and move on that's going to dictate your future.
354
00:22:24,172 --> 00:22:30,115
So kids nowadays are so afraid of making mistakes and screwing up that they just don't
try.
355
00:22:30,115 --> 00:22:36,258
So I think being comfortable with failure and understanding that it is a part of life
would be a huge benefit to the kids coming up as well.
356
00:22:38,382 --> 00:22:47,142
In many ways, the electrical industry is the wild frontier when it comes to technology, in
that it's characterized by innovation.
357
00:22:47,142 --> 00:22:49,522
With that comes new dangers.
358
00:22:49,522 --> 00:22:56,602
The old ways may not exist anymore, and experienced electricians need to find new ways to
survive.
359
00:22:56,602 --> 00:23:03,642
David may speak about legacy, and it's still to be determined, but he's not ready to cash
out just yet.
360
00:23:03,642 --> 00:23:04,592
Well, when are you going to retire?
361
00:23:04,592 --> 00:23:05,072
Never.
362
00:23:05,072 --> 00:23:06,172
Not for a long time.
363
00:23:06,172 --> 00:23:07,490
I'm still on fire.
364
00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:10,071
The industry is exploding.
365
00:23:10,972 --> 00:23:17,416
If I wasn't part of this right now, like the industry is going like this and if you're
retiring, I want to be going with that rise.
366
00:23:17,416 --> 00:23:25,140
And I have a responsibility at this point to pass on what I've learned so that these other
guys have a good opportunity to ride this next wave.
367
00:23:25,341 --> 00:23:29,964
Like I've ridden a couple of waves and I've ridden them down too.
368
00:23:29,964 --> 00:23:31,675
Now there's a new wave happening right now.
369
00:23:31,675 --> 00:23:34,516
David's in the right place at the right time.
370
00:23:34,616 --> 00:23:40,150
He and his team at Patriot Electric are more than ready for whatever the future has to
offer.
371
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:45,853
There's so many new technologies coming out, they're going to create more of an influx of
work than has ever been possible before.
372
00:23:46,434 --> 00:23:48,716
So think the industry is going in the right direction.
373
00:23:48,716 --> 00:23:50,866
I'm excited to see where it's headed in the future.
374
00:23:50,866 --> 00:23:56,581
Changes all the time, know, now solar is coming out and know, EVs and all these new
things, it never ends.
375
00:23:56,581 --> 00:23:59,303
Well, it's fantastic for us in our position.
376
00:23:59,303 --> 00:24:01,365
Bad instances, you know, it just never ends.
377
00:24:01,365 --> 00:24:03,616
It's always something new every single day.
378
00:24:03,616 --> 00:24:08,017
As far as technology goes, that's probably one of the fastest advancing technology trades
that there is.
379
00:24:08,017 --> 00:24:11,188
There's always going to be something to learn in that industry.
380
00:24:11,188 --> 00:24:14,529
I am someone who's very passionate about learning and furthering my own education.
381
00:24:14,529 --> 00:24:21,431
So that's really the reason I chose electrical is I knew that I would always be able to
learn for my entirety of my career, essentially.
382
00:24:21,431 --> 00:24:22,429
Like I'm only one person.
383
00:24:22,429 --> 00:24:23,832
I can only do so much.
384
00:24:23,852 --> 00:24:25,273
I can only read so much.
385
00:24:25,273 --> 00:24:29,964
The industry is changing so rapidly that I definitely depend on, you know, people.
386
00:24:29,964 --> 00:24:36,267
like David, our journeymen that are in our field, our other office staff, Polly, Ashley,
they do their own research on things.
387
00:24:36,267 --> 00:24:46,508
Mark is talking about Paul Goetz and Ashley Brown, another member of Patriot Electric, who
we'll hear from next episode when we dig into solar energy.
388
00:24:46,508 --> 00:24:48,044
It's like a pool of knowledge, right?
389
00:24:48,044 --> 00:24:50,966
Collective intelligence, if you want to call it that.
390
00:24:50,966 --> 00:24:56,389
I think that's what I need myself to be successful in this industry because I can't do it
all myself.
391
00:24:56,389 --> 00:24:59,182
I'm sure Dave could personally attest he's been doing it for
392
00:24:59,182 --> 00:25:00,382
40 years.
393
00:25:00,903 --> 00:25:01,923
You know, it's a collective thing.
394
00:25:01,923 --> 00:25:05,024
You need a bunch of people to be successful in this industry.
395
00:25:05,024 --> 00:25:08,546
With all the changes that are coming all the time, nobody can keep up.
396
00:25:08,546 --> 00:25:10,407
Nobody has a chance of keeping up.
397
00:25:10,407 --> 00:25:14,028
You need that collective mind in order to do that.
398
00:25:14,028 --> 00:25:15,128
I love how it's changing.
399
00:25:15,128 --> 00:25:16,049
Don't get me wrong.
400
00:25:16,049 --> 00:25:17,762
I love seeing where it's going.
401
00:25:17,762 --> 00:25:19,882
I feel like it's a very healthy industry.
402
00:25:19,882 --> 00:25:29,344
I want to be able to bless the next generation coming behind me with the same opportunity,
but give them a freaking chance to stand on my shoulders and take it from there.
403
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:33,472
That's what I think is going to be a good gift going out.
404
00:25:33,692 --> 00:25:36,194
Because I think that's going to pay heavy dividends in the long run.
405
00:25:36,194 --> 00:25:38,815
Now we're back to legacy.
406
00:25:39,115 --> 00:25:42,357
What it is that David wants to leave behind?
407
00:25:42,357 --> 00:25:43,578
He's a road builder.
408
00:25:43,578 --> 00:25:45,779
He knows how hard it was coming up.
409
00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:46,930
I fought every bloody way.
410
00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:47,950
I've bent steering wheels.
411
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:53,443
I've been so mad and frustrated and cried myself to sleep fricking numerous times.
412
00:25:53,443 --> 00:25:54,034
Is it easy?
413
00:25:54,034 --> 00:25:54,644
No way.
414
00:25:54,644 --> 00:25:58,432
If you ask me down one of the questions there, what would you like to be remembered for?
415
00:25:58,432 --> 00:26:00,163
and what would you like to leave behind?
416
00:26:00,163 --> 00:26:02,153
That's eventually where I think I'd like to go.
417
00:26:02,153 --> 00:26:09,645
Because I'd like to give those who really, really are fighting for what they want and
really, really digging in and doing whatever it takes like I did.
418
00:26:09,645 --> 00:26:20,318
I want to be able to see what it would take to put a scholarship together or some kind of
a bursary together that can feed that individual either a one time or maybe on an annual
419
00:26:20,318 --> 00:26:22,849
basis for those falling in behind there.
420
00:26:22,849 --> 00:26:27,510
So there needs to be something that the province is going to put together to support these
kids.
421
00:26:27,576 --> 00:26:31,929
coming in and helping them out with some kind of a financial aid.
422
00:26:31,929 --> 00:26:37,213
That needs to happen because I think that's the first and foremost hurdle to these young
people coming in.
423
00:26:37,213 --> 00:26:38,934
The province is going to have to step up.
424
00:26:38,934 --> 00:26:44,518
I think my legacy in comparison would be a lot more fluid and a lot more spread out over
time.
425
00:26:44,558 --> 00:26:46,220
And it wouldn't be one particular thing.
426
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:48,181
It'll be a number of different things.
427
00:26:48,221 --> 00:26:55,362
It might be the continuing education that I've taught numerous electricians and
apprentices along my journey.
428
00:26:55,362 --> 00:27:03,747
to hopefully carry on that same culture and determination, professionalism, admiration by
the inspectors.
429
00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:05,988
This is how David does business.
430
00:27:05,988 --> 00:27:08,029
That's part of the legacy too.
431
00:27:08,029 --> 00:27:13,333
Because a company's actions and reputation reflects back on its founder.
432
00:27:13,333 --> 00:27:15,093
What have you remembered for?
433
00:27:16,234 --> 00:27:21,287
Well, I think having a company that's, like this is it right now.
434
00:27:21,287 --> 00:27:23,388
It's basically my mission statement.
435
00:27:23,626 --> 00:27:26,588
and that is that we want to have the highest of integrity.
436
00:27:26,588 --> 00:27:27,859
In other words, you tell them the truth.
437
00:27:27,859 --> 00:27:29,109
There's no lying.
438
00:27:29,230 --> 00:27:30,850
So there's no room for that.
439
00:27:31,011 --> 00:27:32,041
I'm standing on your word.
440
00:27:32,041 --> 00:27:34,843
If we're going to do it, we're going to do it and we're going to come through.
441
00:27:34,843 --> 00:27:42,658
And if there's any change in something, we're going to try and do the best we can to
resolve it because there's always going to be those times where there's going to be
442
00:27:42,658 --> 00:27:44,579
misunderstandings and miscommunications and so on.
443
00:27:44,579 --> 00:27:49,562
But having the utmost of integrity, honesty, ethics.
444
00:27:49,966 --> 00:27:53,656
interest in our staff to support their vision and dream.
445
00:27:53,656 --> 00:27:57,486
I always ask people that, where do you see yourself in a year, two years, five years?
446
00:27:57,486 --> 00:28:04,286
I constantly ask my new recruits that because if they can't answer it that tells me a lot
about where they're at.
447
00:28:04,306 --> 00:28:11,696
They're lacking vision, they're lacking focus and so they're so concerned about their
day-to-day that they haven't had a chance to look further down the road.
448
00:28:11,696 --> 00:28:15,046
So I want to help paint that picture for them.
449
00:28:15,046 --> 00:28:19,980
Give them the reason to understand that this is reason to get up in the morning, go
through the struggle,
450
00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:21,952
so that you know there's gonna be a prize at the end of that.
451
00:28:21,952 --> 00:28:23,613
So don't give up halfway through.
452
00:28:23,613 --> 00:28:29,118
So I gotta try and, for those that don't have that vision, I gotta try and instill that
into them.
453
00:28:29,118 --> 00:28:32,180
I think that's gonna give them legs to keep going.
454
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,124
And so those are the kind of the attributes I wanna be remembered for.
455
00:28:36,124 --> 00:28:41,888
I've probably reinvented myself a dozen times in the trade.
456
00:28:42,009 --> 00:28:46,562
Like that's not just me personally, but my whole company's scope of what we do.
457
00:28:46,562 --> 00:28:48,704
So the ability to adapt.
458
00:28:49,006 --> 00:28:54,072
to go through hard times and not be afraid of taking risks.
459
00:28:54,072 --> 00:28:57,997
Those are parts of the legacy of a patriot and a Dave Moss.
460
00:28:57,997 --> 00:29:01,260
Not just one thing, but the ability to do those things.
461
00:29:01,521 --> 00:29:06,426
That's the legacy that you need to understand that you went through those things.
462
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,814
Surviving in this industry is about knowledge and experience, or learning and taking your
lumps.
463
00:29:16,814 --> 00:29:20,015
It's about the flow of things and resilience.
464
00:29:20,015 --> 00:29:22,296
Bending, but not breaking.
465
00:29:22,417 --> 00:29:27,799
You've got to have support, those who helped you, and those you help in turn.
466
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,121
It's a cycle, and it's always in motion.
467
00:29:31,121 --> 00:29:34,923
This industry's not for those who stay static.
468
00:29:34,923 --> 00:29:40,254
Be grounded, but unafraid to swing out of your shoes when it counts.
469
00:29:40,254 --> 00:29:44,075
And you need to be able to see over the horizon.
470
00:29:44,075 --> 00:29:52,898
The electrical trade isn't the same as it was 40 years ago when David Moss was starting
out, but it's always had an air of change.
471
00:29:52,898 --> 00:30:00,274
Electricity was a big deal when Edison flipped the switch and lit up Manhattan for the
first time in 1882.
472
00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:02,040
That was then.
473
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:09,162
Even now, it feels like standing on the precipice of the next big thing, harnessing the
power of the sun.
474
00:30:09,174 --> 00:30:12,655
and building bigger and batter batteries.
475
00:30:13,055 --> 00:30:24,378
But if electric technology is an arms race and the market is an unregulated no-man's land,
we're also inventing new and creative ways to put ourselves in danger.
476
00:30:24,958 --> 00:30:32,700
What happens when a technology we're just starting to understand utterly and
catastrophically fails?
477
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:34,621
David Moss has some idea.
478
00:30:34,621 --> 00:30:37,842
He might just have some solutions in mind too.
479
00:30:37,862 --> 00:30:39,018
Join him
480
00:30:39,018 --> 00:30:44,043
and his guests from around the industry on Electrical X Factor.
00:00:19,210 --> 00:00:22,096
After 40 years in the trade, you learn a few things.
2
00:00:22,096 --> 00:00:27,346
You can make a living 8 to 5, but you can make a life from 5 to midnight.
3
00:00:29,070 --> 00:00:31,571
The electrical industry is on the cutting edge.
4
00:00:31,571 --> 00:00:33,912
High risk, high reward.
5
00:00:33,912 --> 00:00:41,096
It's a necessary one, but potentially fatal, always changing, and poised to enter the
future leading the charge.
6
00:00:41,096 --> 00:00:46,818
You can be a part of the industry for a long time and still need to redefine what it is
you do.
7
00:00:46,818 --> 00:00:49,520
What does it take to last in the industry?
8
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:55,883
It's a trade that might seem at odds with itself, filled with old-school grappling of
staying current.
9
00:00:55,883 --> 00:00:59,324
If they don't rise with the wave, they go under.
10
00:00:59,324 --> 00:01:00,605
What's a legacy?
11
00:01:00,605 --> 00:01:02,967
It's something you leave behind.
12
00:01:02,967 --> 00:01:05,869
It's long lasting and positive, you hope.
13
00:01:05,869 --> 00:01:08,892
It's something you build, something to be remembered by.
14
00:01:08,892 --> 00:01:13,035
It's how people think of you and talk about you when you're not around.
15
00:01:13,095 --> 00:01:16,218
It comes from the things you do and how you do them.
16
00:01:16,218 --> 00:01:23,143
I kind of had to refer back to what my initial understanding of what a legacy was and
that's typically something that's very, very important.
17
00:01:23,143 --> 00:01:26,906
It's not something he thinks about often, but electrician, CEO.
18
00:01:27,116 --> 00:01:32,929
and founder of Patriot Electric, David Moss, has had time to work on his legacy.
19
00:01:32,929 --> 00:01:35,331
He's only been doing this for 40 years.
20
00:01:35,331 --> 00:01:40,664
So maybe some people's legacy is going to be a book they wrote or a car they built or a
home they built.
21
00:01:40,664 --> 00:01:41,410
that's
22
00:01:41,410 --> 00:01:43,462
a symbolic piece of legacy.
23
00:01:43,462 --> 00:01:51,901
From a business point of view, it's like I mentioned, it's more of the ability to
persevere, change, take risks, stay on point with your quality and determination for
24
00:01:51,901 --> 00:01:52,983
always doing what's right.
25
00:01:52,983 --> 00:01:57,247
A job has to be pretty special for someone to stick it out for such a long time.
26
00:01:57,247 --> 00:01:58,949
Let's rewind.
27
00:01:58,949 --> 00:02:02,492
What makes someone want to go into the industry in the first place?
28
00:02:08,062 --> 00:02:12,843
looking at being an electrician or considering my next phase in my life was when I was
around 20.
29
00:02:12,843 --> 00:02:18,565
The beauty of that was I was coming out of a family-run business of photo finishing.
30
00:02:18,565 --> 00:02:20,085
We were the second lab in Victoria.
31
00:02:20,085 --> 00:02:26,127
Long story short, I didn't see myself quote-unquote spending the rest of my days in the
dark working with chemicals.
32
00:02:26,127 --> 00:02:31,048
So in photo finishing I said no there's no way I'm more of an outdoorsy kind of guy.
33
00:02:31,048 --> 00:02:33,709
I said all right shift gears what am going to have my options?
34
00:02:33,709 --> 00:02:38,114
Well dad's a mechanical contractor, twin brother's a general contractor, framer.
35
00:02:38,114 --> 00:02:40,276
Well, we don't got no damn electricians in the family.
36
00:02:40,276 --> 00:02:43,348
So then I said to myself, okay, do I want to be a plumber like my dad?
37
00:02:43,348 --> 00:02:44,970
And you know what happens?
38
00:02:44,970 --> 00:02:46,881
Shit flows downhill, paydays and Friday.
39
00:02:46,881 --> 00:02:52,746
And or do I want to sling around a foreign plywood that weighs about 90 pounds a sheet
like my brother in...
40
00:02:52,746 --> 00:02:57,988
knee-high mud and then stepping on electric cords that don't have proper grounds and
getting shocked and shit and so on.
41
00:02:57,988 --> 00:03:03,171
Just because you might not get rained on, don't think it's all sunshine and roses.
42
00:03:03,171 --> 00:03:08,583
I was working 16 hours a day, sometimes seven days a week when I first started in my 20s
and in my early 30s.
43
00:03:08,583 --> 00:03:14,065
And I'd be driving sometimes all the way till midnight and then be back at home, go to
bed, get up at 6 30, go to work.
44
00:03:14,065 --> 00:03:15,036
That's just what we did.
45
00:03:15,036 --> 00:03:19,990
You can make a living eight to five, but you can make a life from five to midnight.
46
00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:24,801
If you expect to be able to live like you want to live, you weren't going to accomplish
that in a nine to five job.
47
00:03:24,801 --> 00:03:29,253
There was nobody that I saw working nine to five, living the way I wanted to live.
48
00:03:29,253 --> 00:03:35,564
I guess you could say the school of hard knocks, which is basically putting you through
the struggle because if there's no struggle, there's no reward.
49
00:03:35,564 --> 00:03:39,096
And so that's when I started to get in the trade and say, all right, I'm doing my thing.
50
00:03:39,096 --> 00:03:40,306
I'm becoming an entrepreneur.
51
00:03:40,306 --> 00:03:43,387
I'm in control of my future, but I'm not financially where I want to be.
52
00:03:43,387 --> 00:03:48,098
David's a big believer in knowing exactly what you want.
53
00:03:48,224 --> 00:03:51,816
Maybe not when or how to get it, right out of the gate.
54
00:03:51,816 --> 00:03:53,867
But you need to make it to the track.
55
00:03:53,867 --> 00:03:58,034
For David, it all started with a picture on a fridge.
56
00:03:58,034 --> 00:04:03,664
I have a lake home on my refrigerator with a dog in the dock and some kids.
57
00:04:03,664 --> 00:04:09,207
And that stayed on my fridge since I was 20 years old, all the way until I was 44 years
old.
58
00:04:09,207 --> 00:04:10,077
That same picture.
59
00:04:10,077 --> 00:04:11,949
Took it off and threw it away twice.
60
00:04:11,949 --> 00:04:14,390
I didn't actually throw it in the garbage, I just...
61
00:04:14,606 --> 00:04:15,866
give it this one here.
62
00:04:15,866 --> 00:04:18,966
In frustration and disappointment.
63
00:04:19,646 --> 00:04:21,886
Almost gave up.
64
00:04:21,966 --> 00:04:22,826
But didn't.
65
00:04:22,826 --> 00:04:25,066
David's been in the industry for a while now.
66
00:04:25,066 --> 00:04:26,806
He's seen it change.
67
00:04:26,806 --> 00:04:28,586
He's seen the people change.
68
00:04:28,586 --> 00:04:31,326
For the health of the industry, it has to.
69
00:04:31,326 --> 00:04:33,766
It needs to keep up in the world.
70
00:04:33,766 --> 00:04:35,646
It needs new blood.
71
00:04:35,646 --> 00:04:38,816
But there's just a tiny issue with that.
72
00:04:38,816 --> 00:04:42,582
What I found over the industry over the last 20...
73
00:04:42,582 --> 00:04:48,107
I guess 23 years that I've been in it, is that young people are changing.
74
00:04:48,107 --> 00:04:49,188
So they're not work ready.
75
00:04:49,188 --> 00:04:53,671
That's Mark Chappell, senior project manager at Patriot Electric.
76
00:04:53,671 --> 00:04:56,854
A tale as old as time.
77
00:04:56,934 --> 00:05:01,357
The military has slang for its recruits fresh out of basic training.
78
00:05:01,418 --> 00:05:02,819
F-N-G.
79
00:05:02,819 --> 00:05:03,920
F-ing new guy.
80
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,022
Everybody has to start somewhere.
81
00:05:06,022 --> 00:05:11,320
But it's a real concern in an industry like electrical, where one wrong move
82
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:12,891
can be your last.
83
00:05:12,931 --> 00:05:16,094
For one thing, it's the difference in mindset.
84
00:05:16,094 --> 00:05:17,815
When they hit the industry, they're not ready to work.
85
00:05:17,815 --> 00:05:19,345
They don't know what's expected of them.
86
00:05:19,345 --> 00:05:24,741
They don't understand that this is the job you have to do to get to the job you actually
want.
87
00:05:24,741 --> 00:05:28,523
So they all get into the industry thinking that, I'm to be somewhat important.
88
00:05:28,624 --> 00:05:31,548
So you got to pay your dues, then you get there.
89
00:05:31,548 --> 00:05:36,230
So there's an expectation that is completely unfounded in today's youth.
90
00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:40,423
They watch all these guys play video games on YouTube and think that, hey, I can make
money playing video games.
91
00:05:40,423 --> 00:05:41,314
No, you can't.
92
00:05:41,314 --> 00:05:42,455
You got to have a personality.
93
00:05:42,455 --> 00:05:44,306
You got to have the right game.
94
00:05:44,306 --> 00:05:46,018
You got to be the right time.
95
00:05:46,018 --> 00:05:50,361
There's a lot of things that these guys did that you're not just going to magically know
how to do.
96
00:05:50,361 --> 00:05:56,386
So they don't think you to pay their dues, which is probably my biggest problem with
today's youth in the industry, unrealistic expectations.
97
00:05:56,386 --> 00:06:00,690
What do you do if the next generation doesn't seem prepared?
98
00:06:00,690 --> 00:06:03,451
How do you hand over the keys to the kingdom?
99
00:06:03,472 --> 00:06:09,877
How do you entrust all that you've built, all the work you put into it over decades to
newcomers?
100
00:06:09,877 --> 00:06:10,737
Yeah.
101
00:06:11,434 --> 00:06:15,757
The biggest thing that I think that they need to understand is they need to have patience.
102
00:06:15,757 --> 00:06:19,800
They need to be able to think outside of the box, approach things from a different angle.
103
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,022
And it's not necessarily about always knowing the answer, it's about knowing how to find
the answer.
104
00:06:23,022 --> 00:06:26,425
You don't have to know everything, you just have to be able to find out how to figure it
out.
105
00:06:26,425 --> 00:06:30,768
So in my career, there's been plenty of times where I've walked into something where
there's no instruction manual for it.
106
00:06:30,768 --> 00:06:35,371
There's nothing you can find for it, but you manufacturer's a phone call away.
107
00:06:35,371 --> 00:06:40,374
It's knowing that you can do that and feeling comfortable doing that, picking up the phone
and making that call.
108
00:06:40,526 --> 00:06:42,326
that's going to make you stand out from the rest.
109
00:06:42,326 --> 00:06:47,636
even then, picking up the phone at all can be terrifying for younger people today.
110
00:06:47,636 --> 00:06:51,006
We're so ingrained in, you know, texting, you know, just calling and talking to people.
111
00:06:51,006 --> 00:06:52,696
It's hard for people sometimes, right?
112
00:06:52,696 --> 00:06:53,966
Just talking to people now.
113
00:06:53,966 --> 00:06:58,646
That's Paul Goetz, engineer and training project coordinator at Patriot Electric.
114
00:06:58,646 --> 00:07:00,116
I think we still got some place.
115
00:07:00,116 --> 00:07:02,546
We got some things to work on there, definitely.
116
00:07:02,546 --> 00:07:06,406
Confidence in just, you know, getting stuff done and, you know, being able to talk to
people.
117
00:07:06,406 --> 00:07:07,554
I think it's just.
118
00:07:07,554 --> 00:07:08,564
people getting out there, right?
119
00:07:08,564 --> 00:07:12,048
Because for me, it's, you know, we're very behind the screen nowadays.
120
00:07:12,048 --> 00:07:19,264
Paul is newer to the industry than David and Mark, but David wouldn't have taken him on if
he didn't think he could handle himself.
121
00:07:19,264 --> 00:07:28,681
These guys like Paul, very few guys like Paul, that'll actually go ahead and jump in both
feet and learn it and not be scared of it, even though it's not part of their profession
122
00:07:28,681 --> 00:07:29,332
or whatever.
123
00:07:29,332 --> 00:07:35,547
He just did what was asked of him and respectfully for the overall benefit of the team and
the company, he's doing that.
124
00:07:35,547 --> 00:07:36,878
As these types of people,
125
00:07:36,878 --> 00:07:42,598
And there's other people like that in the trade that are willing to go outside the box to
learn and to do.
126
00:07:42,598 --> 00:07:49,988
And by that, they're going to become the experts and the leaders in what they're doing
because they were able to say, no, I don't know how to do that.
127
00:07:49,988 --> 00:07:52,558
Or that's not part of my this or that's not this.
128
00:07:52,558 --> 00:07:53,137
No, no.
129
00:07:53,137 --> 00:07:54,498
But the positive attitude.
130
00:07:54,498 --> 00:07:55,768
Yeah, I'll figure that out.
131
00:07:55,768 --> 00:07:57,378
Or no, I don't know, but I'll figure it out.
132
00:07:57,378 --> 00:07:59,438
Or no, I don't know right now, but I'll get back to you.
133
00:07:59,438 --> 00:08:05,152
You could probably say that any of your cohorts or anybody around the same discipline
you're in.
134
00:08:05,152 --> 00:08:09,740
If they can attribute to those kinds of skills and attitudes, they're going to be able to
excel.
135
00:08:12,066 --> 00:08:18,590
So having those soft skills that are missing from today's youth is what really you need to
get into this industry, feel.
136
00:08:20,270 --> 00:08:21,981
Well, how you develop those soft skills, right?
137
00:08:21,981 --> 00:08:24,383
Like Marcus mentioned, he says, they're not ready.
138
00:08:24,383 --> 00:08:25,223
They're not ready to work.
139
00:08:25,223 --> 00:08:26,394
Well, how do we get them ready to work?
140
00:08:26,394 --> 00:08:28,666
I think that all has to start in high school.
141
00:08:28,666 --> 00:08:35,441
When I was going to high school, they had the trades programs in the school where you
could, you know, do some mechanics work, wood shop, like all those sorts of things.
142
00:08:35,441 --> 00:08:43,696
I feel like the other classes that are mandatory to take, you know, your sciences, your
maths, all your social studies, English, those should also be incorporated in those real
143
00:08:43,696 --> 00:08:44,707
world soft skills.
144
00:08:44,707 --> 00:08:47,870
That's the only way we're really going to get these youth ready for this, right?
145
00:08:47,870 --> 00:08:49,676
So I thought they get to university.
146
00:08:49,676 --> 00:08:50,607
it's almost too late.
147
00:08:50,607 --> 00:08:58,904
Now you're trying to learn all these skills while you're trying to learn how to work,
that's just an immense amount of additional pressure that you could not have if you would
148
00:08:58,904 --> 00:09:00,715
have learned those skills at an earlier age.
149
00:09:00,715 --> 00:09:07,420
And obviously parents can help with that to some degree, but by and large, work, your mom
and dad aren't there to help you.
150
00:09:07,421 --> 00:09:11,474
So what better place to learn that than in school when your mom and dad aren't there to
help you?
151
00:09:11,474 --> 00:09:18,510
Probably their biggest challenge is their own insecurities, not necessarily feeling like
they can do the job.
152
00:09:18,510 --> 00:09:26,790
And a large part of that is because you're working with people that are very good at what
they do and you never really had that experience unless you were in sports or something
153
00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:30,910
like that where you excelled at where you knew, hey, I can learn this.
154
00:09:30,910 --> 00:09:33,730
They don't have that confidence that they can do this.
155
00:09:33,730 --> 00:09:38,330
They can learn this unless they've actually done that in their personal lives or
athletics.
156
00:09:38,330 --> 00:09:42,140
It's really difficult for them to do that and they don't have the problem solving
abilities.
157
00:09:42,140 --> 00:09:47,374
So that's also hindering them in the industry because if you walk into a situation and
158
00:09:47,374 --> 00:09:52,734
your mom and dad have solved all your problems for you all your life, you have no problem
solving skills.
159
00:09:53,034 --> 00:09:56,754
So that's another thing that's really hurt the young kids coming in industry.
160
00:09:56,754 --> 00:10:06,614
So the ones that I find are that excel as at a young age in the industry, I'm sure Dave
can personally attest to this, are the farm boys, farm girls, because they've had to solve
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their own problems their whole lives.
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Nobody's come to rescue them.
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I would love to have a company full of farm kids.
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Great, great kids, hard workers, they problem solve, they think outside of the box,
because they've always had to.
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If they could teach that to all the other kids, that'd be great.
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We have a very healthy industry.
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But at the same time, the next generation of electricians are facing other kinds of
challenges.
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They're overcoming different barriers.
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There's still going to be the school that hard knocks.
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Their barriers might be different barriers than my barriers were.
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For almost anybody going through coming up from ground zero is going to be financial.
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That's going to be the number one.
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they're coming to work into a bigger city or into where the colleges are, they're
sometimes seeing themselves bunk with a house with 10 to 12 people.
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Now think about this.
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So they rent a house, there's one bed in the house, there's 10 to 12 other young
individuals there.
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Think about the distractions in there and with the workload and the focus that it takes to
become a tradesperson and become a star at it.
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Whereas when I talk to these young kids now that are coming through that are renting rooms
in houses with all the distractions.
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Well, first of all, they're getting
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pulled away from their focus and their study time.
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They're getting distractions.
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They're trying to feed themselves.
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They're trying to, you know, get to work, get home, stay committed.
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It's like they're just getting bombarded with all that.
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So they can get knocked off the rails real quick.
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Well, a lot of them are dropping out.
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I sit on the Apprenticeship Advising Council Board for Camosco College.
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I'm the longest standing member there right now.
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I've been on that since 2001.
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And so each year or at least every six months, we're going to be doing every six months,
getting together with all the stakeholders in the industry.
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And we talk about how the, what's, what's impacting the industry, what's happening and so
on and so forth.
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But the, the common thing is about the apprentices coming up is that there, there's a real
struggle with them coming down from the interior to find a combination to stay here while
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they're going to college.
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And if they do, how can they afford that?
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And if they do get a job.
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you know, where they're to stay, that's the number one thing.
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That's their first thing, their most concern is where am going to stay, where am going to
live?
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And then from there they have to worry about, you know, paying rent, paying groceries,
getting tuned from work.
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It's a big task.
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It knocks 20 to 40 % of the kids right out of the market after the second or third year.
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They just can't do it.
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They just can't do it.
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You'd think that being raised on technology would make the next generation of electricians
adept at doing this sort of work.
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You'd be...
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Well, it's changing for the good and the bad, obviously.
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On the negative side, I've definitely seen a reduction in productivity.
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The next generation that's coming up doesn't have the same work ethic that I grew up with
or that David has grown up with.
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There's a lot more time-wasting activities, people on their phones.
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And so in some ways, technology has been a hindrance to the industry, I feel.
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But obviously in other ways, it's been a benefit.
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You know, can quickly and easily Google something you don't know how to do or something
you don't know how to fix.
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You can quickly and easily watch YouTube videos for tutorials on how to actually...
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install something, so there's a lot of great benefits to technology.
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And that would be the greatest adder to the sites.
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I feel is technology.
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You can go on to any job site and you can document everything via video.
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That can all be put onto a 3d modeling.
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So there's a lot of amazing innovations on the job sites that are brought by tech.
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There's nothing more important than when you, you walk away from a textbook or an
environment where it's controlled and you walk into an uncontrolled environment without a
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textbook.
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And now you're relying on the environment that you're in and you.
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need to execute the solution physically to make it right.
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And then the bonus of that is the praise you're going to get back, whether it be the
homeowner or the superintendent, that's when you start to gain your confidence and your
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ability to grow and learn and then pass that on as experience to another EIT, another
co-op or another apprentice electrician.
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So this gap that we have, I think the first thing that's going to involve is training.
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The training comes in mostly from the private sector.
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The education is going to be coming from mainly either the colleges that are going to be
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influenced in changing their course loads.
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So that's what we're as stakeholders when we come in to talk to the colleges at least
every six months to a year, we're always talking about, okay well we're seeing these
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shifts in the industry on technology.
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This is what our customers are asking for, this is what we're providing, this is what
we're going after and your apprentices aren't doing anything to do with that.
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But that is such a big shift that takes so long to turn that generally speaking by the
time that that's implemented you're two and three years down the road maybe even more.
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That's a losing proposition for the students entering the trade.
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But there's a fix.
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One that David has already tapped into.
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So the alternative to that is we either need to train ourselves.
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In-house training is absolutely the best.
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When you're trying to build a dynasty, you hit the market for free agents or you grow your
own electricians.
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We can't always get the best, but the best that we can get, we want them and we'll pay
them accordingly.
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And then if they're not the best, want to train them to be the best and to bring them up
from where they are.
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There's a huge cost involved with that training, obviously, that companies like Patriot or
like GE have to bear.
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We understand that that's a real thing that we're going to have to do if we want to have
quality employees going forward.
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Dave's, he's always been someone who's very much supported the colleges and the industries
here.
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So he's taken a basically a lead on that as far as the city of Victoria goes from what I
understand.
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And more people need to do that.
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You need to get more involvement from all these different firms in the industry to get
these guys work ready.
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Guys, gals, sorry.
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They just got to get them up to snuff.
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And there's no other way to do that other than teach them.
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Because they're not getting that from a young age.
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They're not getting that in school.
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It's when they get to the workforce.
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it's, now it's incumbent upon us to teach them how to do that.
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that is the best way to do it.
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If we grow our own team, we train the way our culture is.
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We train our mannerisms.
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We train them with our quality assurances.
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The senior electricians...
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are going to be seasoned in our culture, in our ways.
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And generally speaking, more of the troubleshooting and experience side of things.
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The new generation coming in are probably going to be Google savvy on a lot of shit.
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And they're going to be also savvy on what the code says, but how to put that together
when they arrive there.
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That's why you need to have, and it's required by, by code.
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The journeymen have two to three apprentices at most supervision on the site.
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Matter of fact, in some cases it's one to one, but rarely is it one journeyman to three
apprentices.
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Generally it's one to two.
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So that's where you have that on-site personalized supervision and training because they
need it.
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Electricians need to look out for one another.
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When things go wrong in a trade like this, you don't often get to make the same mistake
twice.
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Let's make one thing clear.
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You don't mess around with electricity.
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I can't say enough good things about electrical industry, construction in general.
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There's obviously, know,
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There's horror stories, you hear them all the time, you see them all the time, but by and
large, my life's been good.
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There's some dangerous things as a part of our industry.
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Like every time you drive past power lines and you see a hard hat glued to the bottom of
those power lines, a line's been life was lost.
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So there are horror stories in the industry.
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I'm just lucky that I've never been a part of them, right?
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I've heard about them, I've talked to people who have been a part of them or seen people
that have had, you know, horrific accidents, but I've been very fortunate to always be
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very safe and have a crew people around me that have, you know,
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done their utmost to make sure that I went home every night.
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So I've been very fortunate that way, but there is horror stories out there, 100%.
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When I was a first brand new apprentice electrician, I was working with a senior
journeyman who took me to meet two retired injured electricians, both high voltage
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accidents, but both still alive.
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One of them had his legs blown off.
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He was in a wheelchair and he was still alive.
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That was horrific.
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introduction to him.
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The other gentleman I met who another high voltage accident had his skin melted off, break
down both arms and he was wearing plastic shields.
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those were enough to talk about horror.
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There's no room for mistakes in the electrical trade.
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They're deadly.
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There's deadly.
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You're going to be dead.
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You'll be dead.
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I mean if you come out of an electrical accident alive, there's an angel watching over you
and it wasn't your time but generally you don't get that chance.
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So it was a real wake-up call for that's why it's so rigorous and testing and education
and the amount of safety requirements are for a real good reason.
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And our flashes are like I said before, they're the surface of the sun temperature.
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So there's no coming back from that.
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I always heard all the time, everybody will try to do their electrical but nobody will do
their own plumbing.
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Nobody wants to clean up a water mask but they don't mind taking a chance at electrocuting
themselves.
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You're picking the wrong one, man.
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You can clean up water.
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You can't unburn your skin.
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Or you can't non-unburn your house down.
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yeah, there's definitely a lot of people try to do it themselves.
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And then they typically, when they get in trouble, they call an actual electrician to come
and take care of it.
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Big part of being an electrician is being hands-on.
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Having someone watching over your shoulder, making sure you don't kill yourself is a
pretty big deal.
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But it's more than that.
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Having a mentor is essential.
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David's been through it, and he knows the value of having one, if not becoming one
himself.
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They're not just numbers.
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They're people.
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want to try it again.
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You guys have heard me say this all through the whole conversation here.
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Have them identify what they want and help them get it.
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You know, because see, that's what someone did for me.
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I didn't sacrifice my dreams and settle for something.
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I was always surrounded by people that encouraged me to stretch and reach higher, equip
yourself.
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I was always taught, you know what, you need to find the people that are living the way
you want to live, taking the vacations you want to take and doing the things you want to
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do.
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And then you want to find how to become their apprentice and or be mentored by them.
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That's where the mentorship comes in.
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And see, that's where you're to hear Dave Moss talking about
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That's what we have to offer this new generation, this generation coming behind us that's
maybe struggling trying to figure out how are ever going to do this, how are we ever going
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to have any more.
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Well, you better find a freaking mentor.
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If you don't have one straight up, good luck.
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And I sincerely mean that, good luck.
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But I couldn't do it without one.
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I needed someone to turn to to call in the night or in the evenings or when I'm sitting
there freaking out on what decision should I make.
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and knew that I could contact someone that had a personal interest in me.
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And it wasn't just a paid conversation, it was a friendship conversation that could
actually sincerely guide me and open a door.
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And then you talk about loyalty, that's when you develop loyalties that are lifelong,
cherished memories.
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You can pass those same things right onto the next generation.
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My advice to young kids that would be looking into the trades right now, pick one where
you feel like you can excel with your skill set that you currently have.
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Don't necessarily overreach so you you can't get past a grade eight education.
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Don't go into electrical, right?
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It's not the trade for you.
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There's drywall, there's painting, there's scaffolders, there's lots of other trades that
you can do.
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You can still work with your hands.
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You can still be engaged in a job site that you could do with your limited education.
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So work with your strengths.
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Get into a field where you can actually utilize your strengths.
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So if you're a big strong farm kid, good chance that you can be an electrician, good
chance you can be a plumber, you can be a pipe fitter, you can be steam fitter.
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gas fitter, lots of heavy lifting stuff that those kids could be, they could really excel
at.
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If you're a more academically minded person, electrical is a great trade for you because
there's a lot of electrical math theory that you really need in order to actually be
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successful in this industry.
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So utilize your strengths and don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid of
failure.
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That's one of the biggest things that I would love for kids to understand is life is
failure.
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It's all about failure.
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You fail every single day.
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It's how you learn and move on that's going to dictate your future.
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So kids nowadays are so afraid of making mistakes and screwing up that they just don't
try.
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So I think being comfortable with failure and understanding that it is a part of life
would be a huge benefit to the kids coming up as well.
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In many ways, the electrical industry is the wild frontier when it comes to technology, in
that it's characterized by innovation.
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With that comes new dangers.
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The old ways may not exist anymore, and experienced electricians need to find new ways to
survive.
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David may speak about legacy, and it's still to be determined, but he's not ready to cash
out just yet.
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Well, when are you going to retire?
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Never.
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Not for a long time.
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I'm still on fire.
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The industry is exploding.
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If I wasn't part of this right now, like the industry is going like this and if you're
retiring, I want to be going with that rise.
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And I have a responsibility at this point to pass on what I've learned so that these other
guys have a good opportunity to ride this next wave.
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Like I've ridden a couple of waves and I've ridden them down too.
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00:23:29,964 --> 00:23:31,675
Now there's a new wave happening right now.
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David's in the right place at the right time.
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He and his team at Patriot Electric are more than ready for whatever the future has to
offer.
371
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:45,853
There's so many new technologies coming out, they're going to create more of an influx of
work than has ever been possible before.
372
00:23:46,434 --> 00:23:48,716
So think the industry is going in the right direction.
373
00:23:48,716 --> 00:23:50,866
I'm excited to see where it's headed in the future.
374
00:23:50,866 --> 00:23:56,581
Changes all the time, know, now solar is coming out and know, EVs and all these new
things, it never ends.
375
00:23:56,581 --> 00:23:59,303
Well, it's fantastic for us in our position.
376
00:23:59,303 --> 00:24:01,365
Bad instances, you know, it just never ends.
377
00:24:01,365 --> 00:24:03,616
It's always something new every single day.
378
00:24:03,616 --> 00:24:08,017
As far as technology goes, that's probably one of the fastest advancing technology trades
that there is.
379
00:24:08,017 --> 00:24:11,188
There's always going to be something to learn in that industry.
380
00:24:11,188 --> 00:24:14,529
I am someone who's very passionate about learning and furthering my own education.
381
00:24:14,529 --> 00:24:21,431
So that's really the reason I chose electrical is I knew that I would always be able to
learn for my entirety of my career, essentially.
382
00:24:21,431 --> 00:24:22,429
Like I'm only one person.
383
00:24:22,429 --> 00:24:23,832
I can only do so much.
384
00:24:23,852 --> 00:24:25,273
I can only read so much.
385
00:24:25,273 --> 00:24:29,964
The industry is changing so rapidly that I definitely depend on, you know, people.
386
00:24:29,964 --> 00:24:36,267
like David, our journeymen that are in our field, our other office staff, Polly, Ashley,
they do their own research on things.
387
00:24:36,267 --> 00:24:46,508
Mark is talking about Paul Goetz and Ashley Brown, another member of Patriot Electric, who
we'll hear from next episode when we dig into solar energy.
388
00:24:46,508 --> 00:24:48,044
It's like a pool of knowledge, right?
389
00:24:48,044 --> 00:24:50,966
Collective intelligence, if you want to call it that.
390
00:24:50,966 --> 00:24:56,389
I think that's what I need myself to be successful in this industry because I can't do it
all myself.
391
00:24:56,389 --> 00:24:59,182
I'm sure Dave could personally attest he's been doing it for
392
00:24:59,182 --> 00:25:00,382
40 years.
393
00:25:00,903 --> 00:25:01,923
You know, it's a collective thing.
394
00:25:01,923 --> 00:25:05,024
You need a bunch of people to be successful in this industry.
395
00:25:05,024 --> 00:25:08,546
With all the changes that are coming all the time, nobody can keep up.
396
00:25:08,546 --> 00:25:10,407
Nobody has a chance of keeping up.
397
00:25:10,407 --> 00:25:14,028
You need that collective mind in order to do that.
398
00:25:14,028 --> 00:25:15,128
I love how it's changing.
399
00:25:15,128 --> 00:25:16,049
Don't get me wrong.
400
00:25:16,049 --> 00:25:17,762
I love seeing where it's going.
401
00:25:17,762 --> 00:25:19,882
I feel like it's a very healthy industry.
402
00:25:19,882 --> 00:25:29,344
I want to be able to bless the next generation coming behind me with the same opportunity,
but give them a freaking chance to stand on my shoulders and take it from there.
403
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:33,472
That's what I think is going to be a good gift going out.
404
00:25:33,692 --> 00:25:36,194
Because I think that's going to pay heavy dividends in the long run.
405
00:25:36,194 --> 00:25:38,815
Now we're back to legacy.
406
00:25:39,115 --> 00:25:42,357
What it is that David wants to leave behind?
407
00:25:42,357 --> 00:25:43,578
He's a road builder.
408
00:25:43,578 --> 00:25:45,779
He knows how hard it was coming up.
409
00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:46,930
I fought every bloody way.
410
00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:47,950
I've bent steering wheels.
411
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:53,443
I've been so mad and frustrated and cried myself to sleep fricking numerous times.
412
00:25:53,443 --> 00:25:54,034
Is it easy?
413
00:25:54,034 --> 00:25:54,644
No way.
414
00:25:54,644 --> 00:25:58,432
If you ask me down one of the questions there, what would you like to be remembered for?
415
00:25:58,432 --> 00:26:00,163
and what would you like to leave behind?
416
00:26:00,163 --> 00:26:02,153
That's eventually where I think I'd like to go.
417
00:26:02,153 --> 00:26:09,645
Because I'd like to give those who really, really are fighting for what they want and
really, really digging in and doing whatever it takes like I did.
418
00:26:09,645 --> 00:26:20,318
I want to be able to see what it would take to put a scholarship together or some kind of
a bursary together that can feed that individual either a one time or maybe on an annual
419
00:26:20,318 --> 00:26:22,849
basis for those falling in behind there.
420
00:26:22,849 --> 00:26:27,510
So there needs to be something that the province is going to put together to support these
kids.
421
00:26:27,576 --> 00:26:31,929
coming in and helping them out with some kind of a financial aid.
422
00:26:31,929 --> 00:26:37,213
That needs to happen because I think that's the first and foremost hurdle to these young
people coming in.
423
00:26:37,213 --> 00:26:38,934
The province is going to have to step up.
424
00:26:38,934 --> 00:26:44,518
I think my legacy in comparison would be a lot more fluid and a lot more spread out over
time.
425
00:26:44,558 --> 00:26:46,220
And it wouldn't be one particular thing.
426
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:48,181
It'll be a number of different things.
427
00:26:48,221 --> 00:26:55,362
It might be the continuing education that I've taught numerous electricians and
apprentices along my journey.
428
00:26:55,362 --> 00:27:03,747
to hopefully carry on that same culture and determination, professionalism, admiration by
the inspectors.
429
00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:05,988
This is how David does business.
430
00:27:05,988 --> 00:27:08,029
That's part of the legacy too.
431
00:27:08,029 --> 00:27:13,333
Because a company's actions and reputation reflects back on its founder.
432
00:27:13,333 --> 00:27:15,093
What have you remembered for?
433
00:27:16,234 --> 00:27:21,287
Well, I think having a company that's, like this is it right now.
434
00:27:21,287 --> 00:27:23,388
It's basically my mission statement.
435
00:27:23,626 --> 00:27:26,588
and that is that we want to have the highest of integrity.
436
00:27:26,588 --> 00:27:27,859
In other words, you tell them the truth.
437
00:27:27,859 --> 00:27:29,109
There's no lying.
438
00:27:29,230 --> 00:27:30,850
So there's no room for that.
439
00:27:31,011 --> 00:27:32,041
I'm standing on your word.
440
00:27:32,041 --> 00:27:34,843
If we're going to do it, we're going to do it and we're going to come through.
441
00:27:34,843 --> 00:27:42,658
And if there's any change in something, we're going to try and do the best we can to
resolve it because there's always going to be those times where there's going to be
442
00:27:42,658 --> 00:27:44,579
misunderstandings and miscommunications and so on.
443
00:27:44,579 --> 00:27:49,562
But having the utmost of integrity, honesty, ethics.
444
00:27:49,966 --> 00:27:53,656
interest in our staff to support their vision and dream.
445
00:27:53,656 --> 00:27:57,486
I always ask people that, where do you see yourself in a year, two years, five years?
446
00:27:57,486 --> 00:28:04,286
I constantly ask my new recruits that because if they can't answer it that tells me a lot
about where they're at.
447
00:28:04,306 --> 00:28:11,696
They're lacking vision, they're lacking focus and so they're so concerned about their
day-to-day that they haven't had a chance to look further down the road.
448
00:28:11,696 --> 00:28:15,046
So I want to help paint that picture for them.
449
00:28:15,046 --> 00:28:19,980
Give them the reason to understand that this is reason to get up in the morning, go
through the struggle,
450
00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:21,952
so that you know there's gonna be a prize at the end of that.
451
00:28:21,952 --> 00:28:23,613
So don't give up halfway through.
452
00:28:23,613 --> 00:28:29,118
So I gotta try and, for those that don't have that vision, I gotta try and instill that
into them.
453
00:28:29,118 --> 00:28:32,180
I think that's gonna give them legs to keep going.
454
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,124
And so those are the kind of the attributes I wanna be remembered for.
455
00:28:36,124 --> 00:28:41,888
I've probably reinvented myself a dozen times in the trade.
456
00:28:42,009 --> 00:28:46,562
Like that's not just me personally, but my whole company's scope of what we do.
457
00:28:46,562 --> 00:28:48,704
So the ability to adapt.
458
00:28:49,006 --> 00:28:54,072
to go through hard times and not be afraid of taking risks.
459
00:28:54,072 --> 00:28:57,997
Those are parts of the legacy of a patriot and a Dave Moss.
460
00:28:57,997 --> 00:29:01,260
Not just one thing, but the ability to do those things.
461
00:29:01,521 --> 00:29:06,426
That's the legacy that you need to understand that you went through those things.
462
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,814
Surviving in this industry is about knowledge and experience, or learning and taking your
lumps.
463
00:29:16,814 --> 00:29:20,015
It's about the flow of things and resilience.
464
00:29:20,015 --> 00:29:22,296
Bending, but not breaking.
465
00:29:22,417 --> 00:29:27,799
You've got to have support, those who helped you, and those you help in turn.
466
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,121
It's a cycle, and it's always in motion.
467
00:29:31,121 --> 00:29:34,923
This industry's not for those who stay static.
468
00:29:34,923 --> 00:29:40,254
Be grounded, but unafraid to swing out of your shoes when it counts.
469
00:29:40,254 --> 00:29:44,075
And you need to be able to see over the horizon.
470
00:29:44,075 --> 00:29:52,898
The electrical trade isn't the same as it was 40 years ago when David Moss was starting
out, but it's always had an air of change.
471
00:29:52,898 --> 00:30:00,274
Electricity was a big deal when Edison flipped the switch and lit up Manhattan for the
first time in 1882.
472
00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:02,040
That was then.
473
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:09,162
Even now, it feels like standing on the precipice of the next big thing, harnessing the
power of the sun.
474
00:30:09,174 --> 00:30:12,655
and building bigger and batter batteries.
475
00:30:13,055 --> 00:30:24,378
But if electric technology is an arms race and the market is an unregulated no-man's land,
we're also inventing new and creative ways to put ourselves in danger.
476
00:30:24,958 --> 00:30:32,700
What happens when a technology we're just starting to understand utterly and
catastrophically fails?
477
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:34,621
David Moss has some idea.
478
00:30:34,621 --> 00:30:37,842
He might just have some solutions in mind too.
479
00:30:37,862 --> 00:30:39,018
Join him
480
00:30:39,018 --> 00:30:44,043
and his guests from around the industry on Electrical X Factor.
