Scaling with Mycelium: How Bob Hendrikx changes the funeral industry with Living Coffins

WEBVTT
00:00:01.504 --> 00:00:21.852
Today, we dive into the story of Bob Hendricks, the CEO and founder of Loop Biotech, creator of the world's first living coffin made from mycelium the root of a mushroom and in this conversation, we will explore innovating in the funeral industry, scaling up in mushroom tech and building a company with your fiancé.
00:00:22.842 --> 00:00:33.426
My name is Lars Crama and you're listening to episode 57 of Start to Scale, the podcast, where we dissect the scale-up stories of remarkable founders, and we have a remarkable founder here in front of us.
00:00:33.426 --> 00:00:37.344
Let me introduce the inventor, biodesigner, entrepreneur, bob Hendricks.
00:00:37.344 --> 00:00:52.871
With a background in architectural engineering, bob strives for a world in which we work in symbiosis with nature, and in 2020, he founded Loop Biotech on a mission to revolutionize the funeral industry through coffins that turn people into plant food.
00:00:52.871 --> 00:01:06.111
Yes, you heard that correctly, and Bob's journey received widespread attention, making headlines in Wired, cnn, the Guardian and the BBC, and Vice Media even awarded him the title of Human of the Year.
00:01:06.111 --> 00:01:18.409
His backers include Dragon's Den investors, peter Schoen and Sean Harris, and we have a scoop, as he just closed a 2 million crowdfunding round last night to propel the business into its next phase of expansion.
00:01:18.409 --> 00:01:20.246
Welcome, bob, and congratulations.
00:01:20.661 --> 00:01:20.781
Nice.
00:01:20.781 --> 00:01:21.911
Thank you very much for having me.
00:01:22.112 --> 00:01:26.911
Very nice to have you and we were talking about this, raising the funds right, and you closed last night.
00:01:26.911 --> 00:01:29.046
You know what time, what happened.
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:34.689
It was seven o'clock, everybody was looking at the screen because it was like a big counter.
00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:39.409
We were like refreshing, refreshing, and then it hit the two million, cool.
00:01:39.409 --> 00:01:40.561
And then it was like, yeah, we did it guys.
00:01:40.581 --> 00:01:41.281
Nice, very yeah, we did it guys.
00:01:41.281 --> 00:01:42.183
Nice, very nice.
00:01:42.183 --> 00:01:47.968
So we'll talk about what you're going to do with that equity money coming in, but first I have to ask you one question.
00:01:47.968 --> 00:01:51.933
You were well, you're Human of the Year.
00:01:51.933 --> 00:01:53.974
That's a quite notable achievement.
00:01:53.974 --> 00:01:58.147
My one question is do you know against who?
00:01:58.570 --> 00:01:59.537
you were competing.
00:01:59.537 --> 00:02:07.673
I don't know, it was when we first launched and we did our first sale, Like whoa, the first human used a mushroom coffin.
00:02:07.673 --> 00:02:08.218
That just went viral.
00:02:08.218 --> 00:02:12.105
And then Vice was like, hey, we're going to name you a human of the year.
00:02:12.105 --> 00:02:14.538
And I was like, sure, nice thank you very much.
00:02:15.383 --> 00:02:15.805
Very cool.
00:02:15.805 --> 00:02:16.942
Have they done that ever since?
00:02:17.362 --> 00:02:25.169
I think every year they do it, but I do think it's not like one person, it's like in five categories, so there are also five other.
00:02:25.169 --> 00:02:27.709
I don't normally say that, but now we're being honest.
00:02:27.819 --> 00:02:30.206
Yes, we're all honest here, Okay cool.
00:02:30.206 --> 00:02:34.608
Yeah very nice, very nice, so I'm really excited to hear your journey.
00:02:34.608 --> 00:02:36.139
We've met on multiple occasions.
00:02:36.139 --> 00:02:40.043
You've actually spoken at, I think, fuck Up Nights during Upstream Festival.
00:02:40.043 --> 00:02:44.229
You were at the On a 0 Team event, so we've seen each other briefly many times.
00:02:44.229 --> 00:02:46.334
But now it's time to finally dive into your story.
00:02:46.334 --> 00:02:50.724
We'll start with four statements that you can answer with true or false.
00:02:50.724 --> 00:02:51.385
Are you ready?
00:02:52.027 --> 00:02:53.211
Oh yes, let's do it.
00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:57.206
I'm a designer first, entrepreneur second.
00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:00.963
Oh my God, this keeps me up at night, but I do think.
00:03:01.003 --> 00:03:08.106
Designer first yes, Within four months after coming up with the idea, I buried the first body in a mycelium coffin.
00:03:08.106 --> 00:03:13.628
Yes, true, running a company together with your fiancé is a bad idea.
00:03:13.628 --> 00:03:18.409
False, and the final one dead people scare the shit out of me.
00:03:21.861 --> 00:03:22.424
At first.
00:03:22.424 --> 00:03:24.463
Yes, Now I'm at ease with it.
00:03:24.764 --> 00:03:26.288
Okay, okay, so you've learned over time.
00:03:26.288 --> 00:03:26.811
There we go.
00:03:26.811 --> 00:03:28.825
Maybe start with your origin story.
00:03:28.825 --> 00:03:39.650
Can you explain the inspiration behind Loop Biotech and then, I think, your journey that led to creating the world's first living coffin.
00:03:39.849 --> 00:03:44.431
Yeah, of course I was studying at the Delft University of Technology architecture.
00:03:44.431 --> 00:03:57.747
I just got back from sort of a gap year turning a broken down house into self-sufficient home in detroit, where you bought a home for a thousand dollars and I came back feeling a little bit depressed because I was like, okay, we're gonna save the world.
00:03:57.788 --> 00:04:00.961
climate change is coming and all we can think of is more solar panels.
00:04:00.961 --> 00:04:02.425
Like this is not fundamental.
00:04:02.425 --> 00:04:11.810
So I was a mission I want to create a new generation of architecture back then that we could plant, that could grow, that was fully alive so living architecture.
00:04:11.810 --> 00:04:23.968
So I went into that, did a material research on like how coral grows, how bees build their homes, and I stumbled upon mycelium mushrooms and I learned how fast you can grow materials from it.
00:04:23.968 --> 00:04:34.144
And at that point I was graduating and I built like a living home, one to two scale, presenting it at the dutch design week okay, in eindhoven, right.
00:04:34.185 --> 00:04:40.011
That's the place where, yeah, yeah, all designers come together in eindhoven and then somebody came to me like, hey, bob, what, uh?
00:04:40.011 --> 00:04:42.521
What happens actually when my uh, when my grandma dies?
00:04:42.521 --> 00:04:45.610
I was like, yeah, my psyllium is a root structure of mushrooms.
00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:47.425
They're the world's biggest recyclers.
00:04:47.425 --> 00:04:53.247
They can turn dead organic matter into new life and actually give it to the other root systems.
00:04:53.247 --> 00:04:55.685
And while I was saying this like, oh my God.
00:04:56.327 --> 00:04:57.009
It was the epiphany.
00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:05.884
That was really the epiphany and I was like, okay, the mycelium wants to live under the ground, they want to recycle, help the soil.
00:05:05.884 --> 00:05:07.011
And what is a product beneath the soil?
00:05:07.011 --> 00:05:07.553
It's a coffin.
00:05:07.553 --> 00:05:10.709
So then it was like, boom, we got to do the coffin.
00:05:10.709 --> 00:05:16.802
But I was really scared at first because, yeah, a coffin, it's not really that.
00:05:16.802 --> 00:05:18.488
You think, oh, let's design a coffin.
00:05:18.488 --> 00:05:27.471
And my friends then, like they did normal jobs and especially in that early stage that you're really really insecure, you don't have much funds like this.
00:05:27.471 --> 00:05:29.033
This was a life decision for me.
00:05:29.033 --> 00:05:37.725
So I said to myself I'm going to do this one year and if I bury someone in one year, I'll continue okay and then that happened after four months.
00:05:37.745 --> 00:05:39.610
So it's like, okay, hell, yeah, let's continue.
00:05:39.711 --> 00:05:42.043
Yeah, so you set the target of a year and you did it in four months.
00:05:42.043 --> 00:05:43.005
It's's really interesting.
00:05:43.005 --> 00:05:45.892
I think we can learn a lot from taking it.
00:05:45.892 --> 00:05:53.526
Not only examples from nature, but also using nature to create products right, Because that's what sets you on this path and then lets you end up with the coffins.
00:05:53.526 --> 00:05:55.706
Whatever happened to the idea of the house?
00:05:55.706 --> 00:05:57.185
Did somebody else pick that up?
00:05:58.761 --> 00:05:59.685
Not that I'm aware of.
00:05:59.685 --> 00:06:00.925
I still believe in it.
00:06:00.925 --> 00:06:09.178
You can grow so many products with mycelium, yeah, but definitely looking at the market and the product market fits the coffin.
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:09.279
Yeah.
00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:11.107
Because I wanted to keep the organism alive.
00:06:11.288 --> 00:06:11.507
Okay.
00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:14.665
And if you want to do that in architecture, you have like building regulations.
00:06:14.706 --> 00:06:16.505
Right, and your house changes over time.
00:06:16.968 --> 00:06:18.545
Exactly so, a little bit more impractical.
00:06:18.545 --> 00:06:24.004
And a coffin like from a design perspective it should decay.
00:06:24.004 --> 00:06:27.392
It's not the case right now, because people like to build coffins that never decay.
00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.848
So it made sense, nice.
00:06:29.848 --> 00:06:40.589
So actually, this product really fits with the structure of the mycelium and for those who have never seen mycelium or have no idea what we're talking about, maybe briefly, because it's the roots that are growing right.
00:06:40.589 --> 00:06:42.988
So can you just briefly explain how that works?
00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:43.887
Yeah, it's how it works.
00:06:43.887 --> 00:06:44.271
Yeah, so what we do, growing right.
00:06:44.271 --> 00:06:45.153
So, uh, can you just briefly explain how that works.
00:06:45.153 --> 00:06:45.848
Yeah, it's uh how it works, yeah, yeah.
00:06:45.848 --> 00:06:48.954
So what we do, um, it's almost like baking a bread.
00:06:48.954 --> 00:06:50.057
That's sort of the process.
00:06:50.057 --> 00:06:54.706
So we're more, uh yeah, bakery as I'd say that we do in our growing facility.
00:06:54.726 --> 00:06:58.324
So it's like you have a mold, you fill it up with, uh, raw material.
00:06:58.324 --> 00:07:01.415
We use, for example, upcycled hemp fibers.
00:07:01.415 --> 00:07:04.464
Okay, but it could be anything what they like to eat.
00:07:04.464 --> 00:07:06.250
Yeah, then you add it.
00:07:06.250 --> 00:07:26.642
Actually, it's called inoculate it with mycelium okay and then the organism starts feeding the substrate and while it's feeding it takes seven days it's creating like a three-dimensional network of all these tiny fibers yeah thereby sort of gluing everything together cool and if you stop that process at some point, you have like a hard and sturdy material.
00:07:26.762 --> 00:07:27.545
Yeah, it's really nice.
00:07:27.545 --> 00:07:31.704
We'll share a picture, uh, to one of your videos, I think in the show notes, for people to check it out.
00:07:31.704 --> 00:07:33.329
But basically it now also looks.
00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:38.353
Your coffin looks like a big cocoon, almost like it's a really nice white cocoon, like shape.
00:07:38.392 --> 00:07:40.158
We did a little redesign over time.
00:07:40.238 --> 00:07:40.961
Yeah, saw that.
00:07:40.961 --> 00:07:47.783
Um, I read somewhere that you've that more than a thousand people have been buried in your coffins to date.
00:07:47.783 --> 00:07:48.805
Maybe that's already more.
00:07:48.805 --> 00:07:53.848
Um, and you also signed a partnership with dela, which is, I think, one of the largest funeral directors in the netherlands.
00:07:53.848 --> 00:08:00.262
Maybe can you talk us through what has been your go-to-market strategy and then, more importantly, how has that evolved over time?
00:08:00.843 --> 00:08:01.684
yeah, definitely.
00:08:01.684 --> 00:08:03.107
Um.
00:08:03.107 --> 00:08:11.665
So, starting at the beginning, uh, I had this little prototype and I was like, okay, I just need to go to funeral uh entrepreneurs and see, like, what they think, and they were very enthusiastic.
00:08:11.665 --> 00:08:13.754
So I knew, okay, hey, there's something up here, yes.
00:08:13.754 --> 00:08:16.666
But then, looking in the funeral industry, it's pretty closed.
00:08:16.666 --> 00:08:24.944
It's a high margin market and, yeah, especially if you're an outsider, you you have no idea how the business model works a high margin market is good if you bring a product in right.
00:08:25.305 --> 00:08:31.468
Yeah, from a product perspective it's good, and especially since mycelium is like chapter one of the technology, so it is more expensive.
00:08:31.468 --> 00:08:37.091
Okay, so also that was of course from the business perspective a good market to dive into um.
00:08:37.832 --> 00:08:42.225
and then we had to make the choice, sort of like, hey, are we going to go b2c or b2B?
00:08:42.225 --> 00:08:50.347
And we learned that people don't really often purchase a coffin via a web shop, so we were a little bit early with that.
00:08:50.347 --> 00:08:52.846
And of course this new generation like why are they not buying it?
00:08:52.846 --> 00:08:58.826
But then realizing, yeah, people of 70 don't often use the internet anyway, so we switched to B2B.
00:08:58.826 --> 00:08:59.128
More.
00:08:59.128 --> 00:09:02.470
And now we have a good mix of B2C and B2B.
00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:10.326
Okay, and that's working out for us okay, nice, um, so then you talk.
00:09:10.326 --> 00:09:16.907
We just talked briefly also on how it's being produced, right, and and I saw some videos of what it looks like in your facility as you're scaling up.
00:09:16.907 --> 00:09:24.785
Anybody doing any kind of production work knows that there's significant investments going into infrastructure, resources, etc.
00:09:24.785 --> 00:09:31.796
Can you talk us through how you scale up this production process to get to the next level?
00:09:33.764 --> 00:09:36.351
Yeah, it was pretty hard, to be honest.
00:09:36.351 --> 00:09:39.860
We started at yes Delft, the incubator next to the TU Delft University.
00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:43.910
There we had a very small room of, I would say, 30 square meters.
00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:49.467
People from yes Del delft, if they're listening, they know the stories about coffins lying everywhere.
00:09:49.467 --> 00:09:55.232
So at some point we had to move out and now we're in a facility of 1200 square meters.
00:09:55.232 --> 00:10:11.129
Yeah, and the thing, it's all funding related, because in the end you know exactly which system you want, but it's 200 000 so you don't have the money, okay so you're gonna diy something, um, which is pretty shitty, yeah, but yeah, it sort of is with baby steps.
00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:18.070
So we went in and like, whenever we had money, we tried to buy the best possible option.
00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:25.133
Yeah, and then skill, and I'm now more talking of technology like mixers, cleaning, cleaning machines, climate technology, that kind of stuff.
00:10:26.302 --> 00:10:35.229
And then I think when we first talked, you also talked about kind of trying to figure out everything yourself versus using more proven methodologies.
00:10:35.229 --> 00:10:36.152
What is your learning there?
00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:43.365
Yeah, so definitely in the beginning we had the idea that we were the best in the world at everything Of course yeah, as a solid founder does.
00:10:43.365 --> 00:10:57.769
And we learned quickly that it is not super smart to try to develop all the technology yourself, but rather pinpoint on like, hey, we're going to specialize in this and all the other stuff we're going to how do you say it Buy?
00:10:57.990 --> 00:10:58.110
Yeah.
00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:23.176
So we made a big switch from make to buy, which was a really hard moment in our company because we were relatively young, our revenue was low and we had a lot of youngsters in from the Technical University of Delft most of us friends or via our network and they were like, yeah shit, this is not going to work out, we have too many people on the bus and actually we just don't need to figure out how to build the machine ourselves, we just need to purchase it.
00:11:23.176 --> 00:11:36.750
So that was a hard moment for us and we had to let go, unfortunately, of a lot of team members and then switch to more experienced team members and also more buying technology instead of making it Okay.
00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:38.725
What did you learn from that process?
00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:44.410
That hiring is the most important thing for a founder.
00:11:44.671 --> 00:11:44.871
Yeah.
00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:47.408
And you always hear it and you're like fuck off man.
00:11:47.408 --> 00:12:00.809
I don't like hiring Screw, that it can be that hard, but it's really hard because the thing that I learned is like the company we're building is changing, you need to recruit for that change and when the person starts that you're recruiting, the company already changed Right.
00:12:01.541 --> 00:12:18.081
And I also learned that the best mix is young talent and proven experience okay ajax 2018 even though I'm a psv fan okay, okay, a mix of young youngsters and experienced people, and then you get them in.
00:12:18.081 --> 00:12:19.725
Do you have vacancies at this moment?
00:12:20.427 --> 00:12:21.308
yeah, we have.
00:12:21.308 --> 00:12:32.640
Uh, I think there are now four open and uh like next week two or three will follow ah, okay, well, and next week, because you closed a funding round right, so let's dive into that right now.
00:12:32.660 --> 00:12:36.432
That's really nice, it's a really good moment to start in that's yeah, so come, come in.
00:12:36.432 --> 00:12:39.749
You'll find the the jobs on on the website of look biotech.
00:12:39.749 --> 00:12:43.865
You can also find them on hackyourcareercom, where we combine all startup jobs in the region.
00:12:43.865 --> 00:12:45.267
I think there's about 750 jobs.
00:12:45.267 --> 00:12:46.129
Go check it out.
00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:55.131
Um, let's talk about that funding part because, um, well, you had sean harris and peter schoon already as your investors.
00:12:55.131 --> 00:13:00.764
Um, you're now raising or you finished raising a 2 million crowdfunding.
00:13:00.764 --> 00:13:09.850
But I'm going to challenge you Because I read investors really found their way into what we call mushroom tech, right, infinite Roots.
00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:11.586
You probably know them German Scalab.
00:13:11.586 --> 00:13:15.466
They raised 58 million for their technology.
00:13:15.466 --> 00:13:17.285
Mogu raised 11 million.
00:13:17.285 --> 00:13:21.105
So my question is are you thinking big enough and what are you going to do with the 2 million?
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:22.907
Nice, I like the question.
00:13:22.907 --> 00:13:33.278
The answer is is sometimes I think we don't think big enough um, but we're starting to learn um and the question?
00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:36.436
sorry, it wasn't the second question, I was so what are you going to do with the two million?
00:13:36.436 --> 00:13:37.600
So how are you going to use that?
00:13:37.660 --> 00:13:38.903
yeah, yeah, um.
00:13:38.903 --> 00:13:40.486
So what are we going to do with two million?
00:13:40.486 --> 00:13:46.900
Is we're gonna increase revenue in the netherlands and also lure a little bit towards europe.
00:13:46.900 --> 00:13:50.533
So we hired two experienced sales, uh, persons.
00:13:50.533 --> 00:14:01.216
One is familiar with the funeral industry so he has a lot of contacts, so that will help a lot because it's a it's a different breed of people and it's super nice to have an expert in and the other one will focus on international.
00:14:01.216 --> 00:14:04.188
So that will happen and furthermore, we'll scale up our factory.
00:14:04.188 --> 00:14:14.729
So we're going to buy a lot of machinery to automate, to make the products better, cheaper and faster, and that sort of is the main thing we're focusing on.
00:14:14.749 --> 00:14:20.840
Okay, and for those that have invested, you could see this also in the prospectus and also see how you're making money now, right?
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.261
So what is the plan on scaling over the next couple of years?
00:14:24.261 --> 00:14:25.625
What are your targets that you want to achieve?
00:14:25.625 --> 00:14:34.028
By sales right, Because basically we just said you sold more than a thousand coffins.
00:14:34.028 --> 00:14:38.947
So what's your ambition?
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:49.950
Yeah, so the goal for this year, like from talking from now to next year, our goal is to aim for the 1 million revenue selling 1,000 coffins and 3,000 urns.
00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:50.410
Yeah.
00:14:51.520 --> 00:14:55.107
We also have another product, forest Bands, but it's not in the KPI at the moment.
00:14:55.107 --> 00:14:59.609
So that's the goal, and if we achieve that, we hit the 1 million revenue.
00:14:59.609 --> 00:15:03.230
Yeah, you know as well, a lot of more funding doors will open.
00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:05.860
So that's also thinking big Like.
00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:09.291
If we hit that one like, our next round will be in the 10, 20 million.
00:15:09.291 --> 00:15:15.551
That's what we're aiming for, but for this phase it was too early to get that.
00:15:15.671 --> 00:15:18.437
Yeah, okay, so focusing on sales and scaling up production.
00:15:18.437 --> 00:15:29.740
Yeah, last night I also chipped in a little bit, so I'm definitely following your Welcome to the team in a little bit.
00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:31.306
so, uh, I'm definitely following your yay uh joining uh the team.
00:15:31.306 --> 00:15:34.434
Um, you talked about this already a little bit, but, um, I still want to ask the question for you personally.
00:15:34.434 --> 00:15:40.091
If you, uh, when you look at your own leadership capabilities, how have you changed over time?
00:15:40.091 --> 00:15:45.812
And you, you paused a little bit on uh I a designer or an entrepreneur how have you evolved as a leader?
00:15:47.922 --> 00:15:50.210
I think as a leader, I'm a builder.
00:15:50.210 --> 00:16:00.089
I like to run up front and try to inspire and how do you say it make people energetic, like enthusiasm.
00:16:00.089 --> 00:16:11.225
I have some lengths that sometimes I can be a little bit stubborn and sometimes I can go a little bit too hard.
00:16:11.807 --> 00:16:11.986
Okay.
00:16:12.495 --> 00:16:14.263
So that doesn't help.
00:16:15.678 --> 00:16:17.975
Well, it's the prerequisite for a good founder, right?
00:16:17.975 --> 00:16:19.961
Be a bit stubborn and go really fast and hard.
00:16:19.961 --> 00:16:20.524
Yeah, true.
00:16:20.634 --> 00:16:23.024
But it's important to bring everybody along.
00:16:23.024 --> 00:16:28.221
So I learn a lot about getting people involved, learn a lot about letting go.
00:16:28.221 --> 00:16:39.181
I can be a little bit yeah my way, I would like to see it my way, but also more admiring what people have to offer and be more flexible.
00:16:39.181 --> 00:16:40.681
So a little bit more of letting go.
00:16:40.681 --> 00:16:51.001
I also learned that if you just make good KPIs, letting go is a lot easier because together you've taken the dot on the horizon and you both have the same expectation.
00:16:51.001 --> 00:16:53.340
So that's what really helps.
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:59.123
And what also really helps is having a fellow founder who is also your fiance and is really good at all the other stuff.
00:16:59.384 --> 00:16:59.583
Yes.
00:17:00.216 --> 00:17:02.965
So together I think we're a good team, yeah.
00:17:03.596 --> 00:17:05.021
Well, let's talk about that elephant in the room.
00:17:05.021 --> 00:17:10.361
I'm not calling your fiance an elephant, but she's the elephant in the room here, because that is interesting, right.
00:17:10.361 --> 00:17:13.721
Elephant in the room here, um, because that is interesting, right.
00:17:13.721 --> 00:17:14.644
So you were developing as a, as a founder.
00:17:14.644 --> 00:17:18.942
You were a single founder, yeah, and, as we all know well, investors don't like single founder companies, uh.
00:17:18.942 --> 00:17:19.724
So you get the advice.
00:17:19.724 --> 00:17:24.079
But then the other thing is don't start a business with your wife, or soon to be wife.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.023
So tell us how did that come?
00:17:26.023 --> 00:17:27.287
How did that story happen?
00:17:27.287 --> 00:17:29.417
And then I'm really curious how do you make it work?
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:31.201
yeah, I was just.
00:17:31.201 --> 00:17:35.249
I went on a business trip with YesDel to San Francisco.
00:17:35.548 --> 00:17:35.750
Yeah.
00:17:36.275 --> 00:17:42.224
And there we've seen so many things, all the VCs, and everyone was like, yeah, go big, let's go, yeah.
00:17:42.224 --> 00:17:45.763
And I was like so pumped up, but everyone's saying like you can't be a solo founder.
00:17:45.763 --> 00:17:47.561
And I'm like I am a solo founder.
00:17:47.561 --> 00:17:52.002
So I said, okay, I need a solo office, I need a find a founder.
00:17:52.182 --> 00:17:56.317
So I started dating and I dated wait, so you started dating for a founder?
00:17:56.317 --> 00:17:58.784
Yeah, okay, yeah, this is a niche style.
00:17:58.884 --> 00:18:04.731
Yeah, we started dating for a founder and I had three uh yeah, solid people, but it didn't feel like the click.
00:18:04.731 --> 00:18:10.128
I couldn't really trust them and that was more probably my issue than their issue.
00:18:10.128 --> 00:18:16.945
So at some time I was walking with a coach higher from yes, delft and he told me like bob, what are you looking for in a founder?
00:18:16.945 --> 00:18:18.732
I'm like I'm so tired.
00:18:18.732 --> 00:18:20.017
I just look somebody.
00:18:20.017 --> 00:18:25.816
Look, I'm looking for somebody, just like my girlfriend and it's like bob, why didn't you ask her?
00:18:25.816 --> 00:18:26.798
Like no way.
00:18:26.798 --> 00:18:30.410
And then I asked her and we started working as sort of a test.
00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:39.961
I mean, I always joke like she's now, she was already working, but now she's actually getting paid because you know when you're at home and you're talking to your fiance or girlfriend or whatever.
00:18:40.942 --> 00:18:46.768
Um, so, yeah, then it happened and it was a super nice click and um, yeah, it really is a lifestyle.
00:18:46.768 --> 00:18:56.575
It's really intense yeah but for people who know me, they would understand that Bob Likes Intense so yeah, it's nice and the personal click was already there.
00:18:56.654 --> 00:19:04.406
But now there's also a business click, but then still I'm curious how do you switch off?
00:19:04.406 --> 00:19:06.844
Because I can imagine so.
00:19:06.844 --> 00:19:07.674
I'll give you a personal example.
00:19:07.674 --> 00:19:20.484
The reason I don't work with my wife is I'd like to keep these things separate, but she still advises me on many occasions, so technically she's also probably co-founder of whatever I do um, but we didn't ever formalize it.
00:19:20.484 --> 00:19:21.429
So how do you?
00:19:21.429 --> 00:19:24.742
How do you make that work in written, because I think people out there are listening.
00:19:24.742 --> 00:19:26.008
Yeah, how do you do it?
00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:29.538
I think what really helps is that we're really different persons.
00:19:29.538 --> 00:19:35.520
So where I'm more external focused, she's more internal focus in the company.
00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:46.500
Yeah, so she is really good with, uh, the finance, the operations, and those are the things that really do not give me energy and the things that, sorry that I'm doing is not giving her energy.
00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:59.685
So also already by nature there is a really good deviation, and at home we have sort of a rule that whenever we're home we don't talk about work unless you sort of have to check in.
00:19:59.685 --> 00:20:08.842
So if I have an issue, if I check my email at 11 o'clock which sometimes happens bad bob, don't do it then I'm in bed and like, oh shit, I feel really, yeah, fucked.
00:20:08.842 --> 00:20:12.449
And then I ask her like hey, I read something.
00:20:12.449 --> 00:20:15.840
I feel really annoyed, can I tell you this?
00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:19.118
And then sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes the answer is no.
00:20:19.901 --> 00:20:20.683
Oh well, that's strong.
00:20:21.154 --> 00:20:23.442
When it's no, then the passive aggression comes in.
00:20:23.442 --> 00:20:25.105
Yeah, oh, wow.
00:20:25.634 --> 00:20:30.723
That's sort of how we make the rules, but yeah, sometimes it is not possible.
00:20:30.723 --> 00:20:31.727
And it's just really shitty.
00:20:31.727 --> 00:20:33.521
Yeah yeah, sometimes it is, it is not possible and it's just really shitty.
00:20:33.521 --> 00:20:40.755
Yeah, so it does have disadvantages, but the advantage is really nice, like you're always with your favorite person in the world there you go yeah and all the adventures you make together.
00:20:40.755 --> 00:20:46.586
It's like all the things we experience with, like the fundraising with the investors with the team.
00:20:46.968 --> 00:20:48.174
Yeah, yeah, she's really.
00:20:48.174 --> 00:20:49.615
Yeah, you're really close to each other.
00:20:49.615 --> 00:20:52.204
And then how does the and maybe we should ask your team.
00:20:52.204 --> 00:20:54.152
But how did the team respond?
00:20:54.152 --> 00:20:58.625
Or how do people respond if they know that you're soon to be married?
00:21:00.296 --> 00:21:01.240
They want to come to the wedding.
00:21:01.339 --> 00:21:02.242
Okay, that's a good sign.
00:21:04.316 --> 00:21:05.320
Yeah, how did they respond?
00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:08.480
We always we don't really in the beginning, we always tell it up front.
00:21:08.741 --> 00:21:08.942
Okay.
00:21:09.275 --> 00:21:12.243
But now we don't even tell it and it's just like, yeah, it's a fact.
00:21:12.505 --> 00:21:12.645
Yeah.
00:21:13.596 --> 00:21:23.041
They can hear us sort of kibble of it too, because with your fiance you're talking differently than with your team members, so sometimes we see them a little bit laughing like.
00:21:23.221 --> 00:21:24.717
Yeah, yeah yeah.
00:21:24.717 --> 00:21:40.364
But it's interesting, the most durable companies in the world are family-owned businesses and I know that in the tech industry we've always been looking for you know these typical founder types, et cetera, so maybe you're setting a new trend here for making sustainable businesses that are run as a family business.
00:21:40.483 --> 00:21:44.299
That would be cool Because also in the funeral industry it's like super common to have a family business.
00:21:44.299 --> 00:21:46.144
Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah.
00:21:46.404 --> 00:21:47.796
Wow, okay, Well we found a link here.
00:21:47.796 --> 00:21:51.844
Uh, very nice, um, cool, um.
00:21:51.844 --> 00:21:56.096
Before we go to the break, final question um, what has been your biggest fuck up to date?
00:22:02.726 --> 00:22:27.723
he's now going through all of his fuck ups all the fuck ups like this, this, this, I think the from a business perspective is, uh, trying to, yes, so not early enough, switching from making to buying so trying to reinvent the wheel yeah yeah, it was, I think the looking back and also, um, from a team perspective, not hiring experienced people uh, soon enough.
00:22:27.784 --> 00:22:40.838
But yeah, you're, you're super young so yeah, you don't have the experience, but yeah, that's what I would advise younger ones like hire the expensive persons earlier uh, but then how do you make sure that you can pay?
00:22:40.878 --> 00:22:45.442
I mean because I think in the early days you also don't have the money right, yeah so how would you do that in hindsight?
00:22:45.561 --> 00:22:46.084
what would you do?
00:22:46.585 --> 00:22:51.053
in hindsight, what is really nice right now is the crowdfunding campaign that people have shares.
00:22:51.053 --> 00:22:56.988
In the beginning was also like super hectic, like oh no, then people have shares in your company and they leave, etc.
00:22:56.988 --> 00:23:12.102
And what I really learned from uh, from sean, from sean harris, is really having trust and uh, building together yeah and uh benefiting together, right, so that's, that's what we're more and more implementing, yeah yeah, and then with shareholders you can always do vesting right.
00:23:12.142 --> 00:23:14.366
So for those, that have never heard about that.
00:23:14.366 --> 00:23:14.788
Look it up.
00:23:14.788 --> 00:23:19.882
But making sure that you invest your equity over, you get your equity over time if you perform.
00:23:19.882 --> 00:23:27.422
Okay, good yeah hiring the right people as soon as possible, as soon as you can, and then also the part of the production.
00:23:27.422 --> 00:23:30.163
I think those are great pieces of experience.
00:23:30.163 --> 00:23:34.636
Slash advice, thank you for that.
00:23:34.656 --> 00:23:35.719
We'll go to a quick break and then we'll be back.
00:23:35.719 --> 00:23:37.020
You're listening to the podcast of Up Rotterdam.
00:23:37.020 --> 00:23:44.778
We help startups scale and grow their business by offering access to talent, access to international markets and access to capital.
00:23:44.778 --> 00:23:46.642
Curious how we can make the network work for you?
00:23:47.344 --> 00:23:56.642
Go to uprotterdamcom this podcast was made possible by the city of Rotterdam and we're back.
00:23:56.642 --> 00:24:09.784
Wow, it's so great to listen to your story how you started and how you got where you are today, and I think it should be an inspiration also for other designers or bio designers to see how you can make a scalable product with smart people around you and some great investors.
00:24:09.784 --> 00:24:15.178
Let's talk how you unwind, because entrepreneurship is tough.
00:24:15.178 --> 00:24:19.596
It's hard work, uh, especially when you're building with your partner.
00:24:19.596 --> 00:24:28.897
I suppose, um, can you share any specific habits or rituals that you have, uh to say, to stay sane mentally and physically?
00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:33.125
um, yeah, definitely, um, yeah.
00:24:33.125 --> 00:24:36.858
So first acknowledgement it is hard, it is uh lonely sometimes.
00:24:36.858 --> 00:24:38.162
You have the highs, you have the lows.
00:24:38.162 --> 00:24:45.707
Um, I've written some texts from back in the days to really show how I felt.
00:24:45.707 --> 00:24:51.622
I never posted them, but I have them like a diary, yeah, so I can look back later on like holy shit, shit, I was really down.
00:24:51.942 --> 00:24:52.163
Nice.
00:24:52.163 --> 00:24:54.828
So do you do kind of daily journaling, or was it just?
00:24:55.015 --> 00:24:57.760
No, it was just some time Okay, just some time when I felt really down.
00:24:57.760 --> 00:25:00.623
But what do I do to keep sane?
00:25:00.623 --> 00:25:11.124
I've invested a lot in learning about the habits, so I did like the whole Tony Robbins package.
00:25:11.365 --> 00:25:11.665
Oh, wow.
00:25:11.895 --> 00:25:15.917
I like America yeah he's a little bit extreme, but a little bit.
00:25:16.117 --> 00:25:18.002
Yeah, he's very extreme.
00:25:18.103 --> 00:25:25.006
Yeah, so I did all the courses like literally in the first year of loop I did all the courses like everything on finance, health, etc.
00:25:25.006 --> 00:25:25.667
That really helped.
00:25:25.667 --> 00:25:32.365
From that moment I went vegetarian, I went non-alcoholic, um, so that really helped.
00:25:32.365 --> 00:25:38.307
I started working out a lot, uh, which is often hard because if you have meetings till 11, yeah what are you going to work?
00:25:38.307 --> 00:25:39.412
Um?
00:25:39.412 --> 00:25:40.797
The classic cold showers.
00:25:40.797 --> 00:25:44.307
It's going really well every day, um, even in the weekends.
00:25:44.307 --> 00:25:45.991
And meditation.
00:25:45.991 --> 00:25:50.082
Meditation now is a little bit harder because I'm getting really impatient.
00:25:50.082 --> 00:25:57.707
In the beginning I did a 10 day silent course in austria at the beginning of loop at the beginning of loop I was on fire.
00:25:57.727 --> 00:26:00.144
I was like I'm gonna do this, this, this 10 days in silence.
00:26:00.144 --> 00:26:04.441
My wife did three days in silence and I it almost killed me because she was living with me.
00:26:05.103 --> 00:26:12.038
So anyway, long story sidetrack, but 10 days in silence, yeah, wow and then, at the end of the day, I do gratitude and wins.
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:12.900
Oh.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:13.981
So say like five wins.
00:26:13.981 --> 00:26:15.323
But these are the things.
00:26:15.323 --> 00:26:17.945
Sometimes they don't happen.
00:26:18.125 --> 00:26:18.426
Okay.
00:26:18.606 --> 00:26:19.827
Because yeah, life happens.
00:26:20.328 --> 00:26:25.265
But this almost sounds like one of those perfect Instagram influencers.
00:26:25.265 --> 00:26:27.663
This is really a lot that you are doing.
00:26:27.663 --> 00:26:28.957
This is actually my bare minimum.
00:26:29.077 --> 00:26:34.708
Wow, I have a list of like sort of a 20-20 amount list of things I want to do.
00:26:34.748 --> 00:26:35.588
I keep track of them.
00:26:36.156 --> 00:26:37.121
I give them like numbers.
00:26:37.121 --> 00:26:38.882
So if it's green, it's really my habit.
00:26:39.498 --> 00:26:43.694
So, for example, the cold shower, that's so easy, and it's also relatively simple to implement, right?
00:26:43.694 --> 00:26:45.036
Because you just shower anyway.
00:26:45.036 --> 00:26:45.935
Yeah, put it cold.
00:26:46.596 --> 00:26:51.377
But then, for example, some things that are a little bit more difficult, like the gratitude at the end of the day.
00:26:51.377 --> 00:26:54.079
Sometimes at the end of the day, it's like hey guys, everyone and you just forget it.
00:26:54.140 --> 00:26:56.901
Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice Working on that.
00:26:56.901 --> 00:26:57.540
Yeah, great list.
00:26:57.540 --> 00:27:00.041
And then congratulations on the zero alcohol.
00:27:00.041 --> 00:27:00.883
For how long now?
00:27:00.883 --> 00:27:08.826
Yeah, three years, Three years okay, I must admit, I probably drink, like many others, too often and too much.
00:27:08.826 --> 00:27:12.548
So what is it like to switch to Xero?
00:27:13.769 --> 00:27:15.689
From a health perspective it's really nice.
00:27:15.689 --> 00:27:18.211
From a social perspective it's really shitty.
00:27:18.211 --> 00:27:20.411
Okay, especially in the beginning.
00:27:20.411 --> 00:27:29.766
I'm coming from the Delft environment so I had like a student home et cetera, and everybody drinks and they go out on Friday and then until 10, 11, it's fun.
00:27:29.766 --> 00:27:34.806
But then you hear stories twice and you're like, okay, this is my cue.
00:27:34.806 --> 00:27:49.743
But yeah, the hardest thing is your circle of friends changes and yeah, that is sometimes really lonely, because then you don't really have the friends anymore that align with your values, but you also don't have the new ones.
00:27:49.974 --> 00:27:59.238
So, it's like hanging in between and like, yeah, yeah, but I literally never.
00:27:59.238 --> 00:27:59.578
How do you say?
00:27:59.578 --> 00:27:59.779
Look back.
00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:01.228
Sometimes I think about it, like, for example, new year, oh, shall I drink?
00:28:01.228 --> 00:28:03.999
And I'm like, no, this streak is too good yeah, it's not stopped now.
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:12.407
No, I think, particularly when you combine it with all those other things you do right with exercise and and, uh well, the meditation, although that's, I heard, sometimes a bit tough.
00:28:12.407 --> 00:28:13.880
I find meditation really tough, by the way.
00:28:14.020 --> 00:28:16.461
I just can't do it, Only guided meditation, by the way.
00:28:16.461 --> 00:28:24.763
So I think it's the inspiration fathers right that are thinking about quitting alcohol and know what you sign up for.
00:28:24.763 --> 00:28:39.221
So your environment changes a little bit and you probably also see the changes, because then indeed a bottle is no much fun after 11 o'clock when everybody gets drunk and you're sober, yeah, okay, yeah, good insight, and maybe it would have changed if I was single oh I'm actually.
00:28:39.241 --> 00:28:47.035
Sometimes I talk with my girl oh, would this actually happen if I was single, because I had a really stable girlfriend, of course, yeah, so for me that maybe also made a little bit easier.
00:28:47.055 --> 00:28:50.086
Yeah yeah, a good point, good point, but I don't know, yeah, okay, well, so uh, we, we thought about bringing champagne here to celebrate your, uh, your win.
00:28:50.105 --> 00:28:50.788
We didn't so it was a good point.
00:28:50.807 --> 00:29:00.099
Good point, but I don't know, yeah, okay, well, so, uh, we, we thought about bringing champagne here to celebrate your uh your win we didn't, so it was a good, it was a good call um, very nice um.
00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:03.454
And then you mentioned also, final thing, you mentioned friends and people to hang out.
00:29:03.454 --> 00:29:05.240
So who do you get inspiration from?
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:08.414
Are there other founders that you like meet up with or learn from?
00:29:09.436 --> 00:29:20.096
um, yeah, I have some founder, uh friends like yuri from peter pod, julian somnoks yeah, julian is one of the podcasts as well, okay yeah, and actually yuri will come up soon yeah we.
00:29:20.096 --> 00:29:22.482
Obviously he has some good stories, he has a very good story.
00:29:22.502 --> 00:29:23.705
He's getting better over time.
00:29:23.705 --> 00:29:25.441
So, yeah, he's writing a book really.
00:29:25.461 --> 00:29:34.569
Yeah, he should yeah, so I know them all from back in the delft days yeah um, so from the yes delft community there are some friends now from Orange Wings.
00:29:34.569 --> 00:29:39.522
They have a tribe because they invest in a lot of early stage startups, so we see them a few times per year.
00:29:39.522 --> 00:29:46.682
But then of course, you have my normal friends, which is sometimes also nice, because then it's yeah, I'm not Bob the entrepreneur, I'm just Bob.
00:29:46.983 --> 00:29:49.682
Bob, the Bob, yeah, which is also sometimes.
00:29:53.875 --> 00:29:57.104
But yeah, you can't go too deep into like, oh, the, this happened at work and it's like, yeah, okay, but you've created a circle of people around you.
00:29:57.104 --> 00:30:03.499
I think that's what we see with other founders as well is, you're working so hard, it's lonely, you're working on your own stuff, so find people around you to.
00:30:03.499 --> 00:30:06.248
Yeah well, call it friendship or call it business friendship.
00:30:06.248 --> 00:30:10.384
We strongly believe in peer connections, yeah, people helping each other out.
00:30:10.384 --> 00:30:12.700
So I think the sean harris circle is probably probably a good one, and you're also invited, of course, to the in peer connections, people helping each other out.
00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:22.762
So I think the Sean Harris circle is probably a good one, and you're also invited, of course, to the Rotterdam dinner, again this year happening at Upstream, 28th of May I'm looking at Lisette here.
00:30:22.762 --> 00:30:25.709
Yes, 28th of May, cool.
00:30:26.154 --> 00:30:29.080
So next up, final part, is that we go to the listeners' questions.
00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:32.980
It's my favorite part always because it brings in different perspectives.
00:30:32.980 --> 00:30:37.553
Um, one of them and I think you know him really well, uh, duke urbanic.
00:30:37.553 --> 00:30:41.382
I think many people know him from the delft and also the rotterdam ecosystem.
00:30:41.382 --> 00:30:42.684
He says hi.
00:30:42.684 --> 00:30:46.019
He also says, bob, you are a super creative mind.
00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:52.137
And then his question is what would you have done if those loop cocoons hadn't been feasible.
00:30:52.137 --> 00:30:54.421
In other words, what was your plan B?
00:30:55.142 --> 00:30:56.744
Ooh, what was the plan B?
00:30:56.744 --> 00:30:57.705
Nice question, dude.
00:30:57.705 --> 00:30:58.788
Thank you for asking.
00:30:58.788 --> 00:31:00.549
What was my plan B?
00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.737
Now?
00:31:03.737 --> 00:31:04.519
Actually really funny story.
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.165
I had this idea of having a sustainable startup.
00:31:07.165 --> 00:31:21.459
So my other idea was either to go to a venture capital and learn from vcs how they do it, because I understand very early it's finance in the end, so doesn't matter really what kind of product you have, in the end it's finance.
00:31:21.499 --> 00:31:22.884
So five times why you get the money.
00:31:22.884 --> 00:31:24.169
Yeah exactly.
00:31:24.570 --> 00:31:24.672
um.
00:31:24.672 --> 00:31:30.261
So I actually almost applied for an internship while I was graduated at a VC.
00:31:30.261 --> 00:31:38.219
That was my lowest moment, but then I said, no, I'm going to do my own, which was really nice.
00:31:38.219 --> 00:31:41.000
Other things what would I have done?
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:49.422
I had some other ideas, to be honest, in the pipeline, but they were a little bit less commercial friendly.
00:31:49.422 --> 00:31:49.943
Okay.
00:31:50.977 --> 00:31:57.704
I saw your personal website where there's a lot of yeah, stuff, more design, yeah, design stuff, yeah okay, I like that angle.
00:31:57.704 --> 00:31:59.836
So see how things in life sometimes change.
00:31:59.836 --> 00:32:03.065
Change I mean in a, maybe in a parallel universe.
00:32:03.065 --> 00:32:08.967
You are now somewhere on the side to us, uh, as a vc, yeah, all right, cool, looking back by the way, that would have been a awful decision.
00:32:08.987 --> 00:32:10.088
I think you made the right decision.
00:32:10.088 --> 00:32:12.355
You, by the way, that would have been an awful decision.
00:32:12.494 --> 00:32:13.539
I think you made the right decision.
00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:22.561
You know, the one thing that VCs often forget is that we feel that also in negotiations right, you feel that one has an advantage over the other.
00:32:22.561 --> 00:32:27.425
But I always keep saying without founders, vcs have no role to play.
00:32:27.425 --> 00:32:34.246
So it really starts with the founders and with the companies that they're building, and then the VCs really should be supportive to that.
00:32:34.246 --> 00:32:40.681
And I think sometimes, when you're also at drinks, investors forget that every now and then because they think that whoever has the money has the power.
00:32:40.681 --> 00:32:45.655
But it's the founders that hold the power to their business, and I think also that should be the way.
00:32:45.655 --> 00:32:47.564
Anyway, just wanted to put that on the record.
00:32:49.857 --> 00:32:51.403
So thanks, duke, and we should catch up.
00:32:51.403 --> 00:32:53.221
It's been a long time ago, uh.
00:32:53.221 --> 00:32:55.037
Second question is from mark slagers.
00:32:55.037 --> 00:32:57.163
Uh, he is the founder of rotter swam.
00:32:57.163 --> 00:32:59.549
I know mark slagers very well.
00:32:59.549 --> 00:33:01.817
Um, he has a great question.
00:33:01.817 --> 00:33:02.761
First he compliments you.
00:33:02.761 --> 00:33:07.538
He says I'm very much inspired by your product and your journey and also by your exit strategy.
00:33:07.538 --> 00:33:10.863
Not sure if that was in the prospectus, perhaps.
00:33:10.903 --> 00:33:12.265
Yeah, it is in there.
00:33:12.826 --> 00:33:13.727
I didn't read it well enough.
00:33:13.727 --> 00:33:23.063
His question is how do you safeguard your sustainability goals in the event of an acquisition by an organization with more economic objectives?
00:33:23.605 --> 00:33:26.121
Well played, little Bob thought of that.
00:33:26.121 --> 00:33:27.640
It's in the shareholder agreement.
00:33:28.021 --> 00:33:28.222
Okay.
00:33:28.815 --> 00:33:29.739
So there's a sentence there.
00:33:30.141 --> 00:33:30.702
And what does it say?
00:33:30.702 --> 00:33:52.368
That Loop should focus on um, I don't know, but it's, it's like related to loop should focus on sustainability and making a but if a company would be acquired, if a whole loop would be acquired by, let's say, a big corporation, would that still hold?
00:33:55.201 --> 00:34:07.145
I haven't thought this through, so, from my point of view, like I'm here for the coming years, decades, okay, so that was the only thing I could do like to settle it in.
00:34:07.145 --> 00:34:11.887
Yeah, we also of course have like the steward ownership and that kind of thing, but I haven't looked into that.
00:34:12.068 --> 00:34:12.289
Okay.
00:34:13.782 --> 00:34:14.646
Yes, that's the only thing.
00:34:15.068 --> 00:34:17.626
Okay, so basically you're just not selling so far.
00:34:18.226 --> 00:34:20.052
Yeah, yeah Just keep the company running Cool.
00:34:20.052 --> 00:34:32.409
But I think it's so aligned with our vision, like also from a commercial perspective.
00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:34.157
If somebody would acquire us and change the mission like that, that is a poor business.
00:34:34.157 --> 00:34:34.739
Yeah, it would make no sense.
00:34:34.759 --> 00:34:37.445
Yeah, okay so it's built into your core yeah core business, cool.
00:34:37.445 --> 00:34:39.931
Um, I have a really practical question.
00:34:39.931 --> 00:34:43.391
This is uh yip krama, who everybody knows because he's my son.
00:34:43.391 --> 00:34:55.347
He's 11 year old, he listens to this podcast, uh, every now and then and I told him this story and he actually remembers, uh, his grandfather passing away last year, um, and they were drawing on the cask on the coffin.
00:34:55.347 --> 00:34:59.543
So his question is can you also draw on them, like on the wooden ones?
00:34:59.885 --> 00:35:01.771
yeah, yeah, the question is yes, they're.
00:35:01.771 --> 00:35:08.992
They're white like cram cream color, um, and we also will also, uh, sell as as a service, biodegradable paint.
00:35:08.992 --> 00:35:14.704
Very good so like little children, they can paint on it, or also grown-up children can also paint on it.
00:35:14.704 --> 00:35:15.485
There you go, guilty.
00:35:15.485 --> 00:35:16.347
Yeah, I did too.
00:35:16.347 --> 00:35:17.050
Okay, great.
00:35:17.090 --> 00:35:18.172
Well, see, I thought about that.
00:35:18.172 --> 00:35:18.733
I knew that.
00:35:18.733 --> 00:35:21.608
Thank you, jip, for asking that question.
00:35:21.608 --> 00:35:22.329
See you tonight.
00:35:22.329 --> 00:35:24.766
Final question is from Roy.
00:35:24.766 --> 00:35:35.101
I don't know which roy, but his question is um looking ahead, what are the long-term goals and aspirations for loop biotech and how do you see the company evolving in the years to come?
00:35:36.224 --> 00:35:36.844
nice question.
00:35:36.844 --> 00:35:48.422
Um, our vision all the way from above is um, we're here to enrich nature and we really believe that we want to put the human remains back into the cycle of life.
00:35:49.242 --> 00:36:22.510
So, basically, we would like to turn humans, when they die, into trees yeah and right now that's not the case, because, yeah, you're in the soil, you're either cremated, there's a lot of negative footprint associated with it, and I don't know about you guys, but when I'm at a cemetery, it's not my favorite place, while nature cemetery, of course, is a forest, so why couldn't we have these nice lush parks that are also cemeteries, integrating death more into our society, which I think is a really healthy thing, because the absence of death makes it really a big thing.
00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:33.190
What I learned little sidetrack from working in this industry that the more I'm surrounded by death, the more grateful I am to be alive, so it actually makes you happier.
00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:59.889
My assumption was I'm getting depressed, I'm going to see dead people like this is not good, but the opposite is true yeah and so that is our vision, like turning, turning humans into compost and doing in the netherlands uh, doing it in europe, doing it in the Netherlands, doing it in Europe, doing it in the USA, building factories all around the world, working with local ecosystems, local mushroom species and local substrates and thereby growing this new generation of products that has a positive footprint instead of a negative footprint.
00:37:00.048 --> 00:37:03.048
Very nice and I think that's close to your strategy.
00:37:03.048 --> 00:37:06.347
And when you talk Sorry, so many questions coming out of this one.
00:37:06.347 --> 00:37:08.644
No, let's go with the first one.
00:37:08.644 --> 00:37:17.927
So, being closer to death, I think I mentioned to you briefly that in my study times I worked for Matrice Uitvaartbegeleiding.
00:37:17.927 --> 00:37:30.010
The KVK business challenge, I think we participated in and basically asked you for four months to spend time with a company, and in this case was helen teunissen from um.
00:37:30.052 --> 00:37:42.532
I saw that industry and indeed I think there's a lot of changes happening to what you're saying is um, that we should be, you know, in a way connected to death, and I think some cultures do spend more time on this than than we with their typical.
00:37:42.532 --> 00:37:49.284
I don't know anybody who's been at a typical dutch funeral with plucky cake, which is like a piece of cake, and it really goes really fast.
00:37:49.284 --> 00:37:53.411
I think there's more and more people trying to have a different experience.
00:37:53.411 --> 00:37:56.188
But then also, to your point, cemeteries need to change.
00:37:56.188 --> 00:37:57.391
So that's a big mission.
00:37:57.391 --> 00:37:58.784
Anyway, just wanted to throw that in.
00:37:58.784 --> 00:38:05.324
The real question I have is you mentioned the US and other countries, so you've been to Silicon Valley.
00:38:05.324 --> 00:38:07.510
Where is that in your strategy?
00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:09.702
When do you want to?
00:38:09.722 --> 00:38:11.123
go abroad, I think in two years.
00:38:11.123 --> 00:38:18.188
So our first goal is, of course, really have our sales and operation running in the Netherlands Already.
00:38:18.188 --> 00:38:24.264
We're working in Europe with Austria, germany, uk, and new countries will come in the coming years.
00:38:24.264 --> 00:38:38.728
But as part of her growth strategy we noticed like hey, in the USA, yeah, there's an insane market, the people are ready, the law is ready, we're already getting a lot of inquiries, so people are already wanting the product.
00:38:39.661 --> 00:38:45.626
So it's just actually a pretty simple logic decision, but then technically you would want to produce it there locally.
00:38:45.626 --> 00:38:46.822
Right Also to reduce, yeah, reduce.
00:38:46.842 --> 00:39:00.900
so the first phase and that that comes with, like from a little bit perspective, like our whole goal is to have a positive footprint, and then the reality is how you don't have money to have a positive footprint because it's just really expensive yeah sometimes you have to make a sacrifice.
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:07.168
So in our strategy we said okay, the first initial step to go abroad is we need to ship, because we're not going to, I'm not going to.
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:08.699
Set up a production site there.
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.324
I'm not going to convince an investor like hey, give me 20 million and.
00:39:11.324 --> 00:39:11.847
I'll fix it.
00:39:11.847 --> 00:39:20.489
So first we need to have the sales from those parties and already we learned that those parties actually would like to invest themselves in those factories.
00:39:20.528 --> 00:39:20.728
Right.
00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:25.867
Because they're, For most of the times, the funeral site parties we're working with.
00:39:25.867 --> 00:39:27.311
They're the biggest in their country.
00:39:27.411 --> 00:39:29.704
Yeah, so they could actually build.
00:39:29.704 --> 00:39:30.835
They're happy to invest to set up a local version.
00:39:30.835 --> 00:39:34.489
Oh nice, so you could have a network effect, I think also there from your….
00:39:34.610 --> 00:39:36.545
Yeah, so that's a little bit of the plan.
00:39:36.746 --> 00:39:36.947
Nice.
00:39:36.947 --> 00:39:40.708
That reminds me of the story of George Birch from Oyster Heaven.
00:39:40.708 --> 00:39:41.711
I'm not sure if you've seen him.
00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:47.568
He, him, he's also building the orange wings.
00:39:47.568 --> 00:39:51.750
Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, we also did a podcast with him and he also talked about how he's setting up factories in local regions to make sure that the fishermen there can put in the reefs, etc.
00:39:51.750 --> 00:39:52.911
So check out that podcast episode.
00:39:52.911 --> 00:39:54.661
It's also really interesting if you're into this topic.
00:39:54.661 --> 00:39:59.371
Uh, cool, um, it's so nice to finally dive into your story, bob.
00:39:59.371 --> 00:40:03.947
Uh, I've heard bits and pieces and obviously read every now and then, um, and followed you around.
00:40:03.947 --> 00:40:10.547
I'm now officially also part of your stock, so definitely following what you're doing.
00:40:10.547 --> 00:40:19.487
Next, keep us up to date, and I would say you probably have a lot of calls to answer from press who are calling you now.
00:40:19.487 --> 00:40:23.407
We just heard that, so we'll read all about you coming up next.
00:40:23.407 --> 00:40:24.731
Thanks for sharing your story.
00:40:24.731 --> 00:40:28.871
As always, we close off with a song that you select.
00:40:28.871 --> 00:40:31.387
Would you like to explain which song you selected and why?
00:40:31.708 --> 00:40:33.746
Yes, first of all, thanks for having me.
00:40:33.885 --> 00:40:34.548
My pleasure.
00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:39.409
I really like to talk about this stuff, so feel free to send me a message if you heard this.
00:40:39.409 --> 00:40:41.545
I had a song.
00:40:41.545 --> 00:40:45.550
It's a little bit emotional song for me.
00:40:45.550 --> 00:41:03.625
It's called Light family high and we used to uh this was maybe in somewhere in 2000, when I grew up in eindhoven with uh three older brothers so we're in total with four we used to go on holiday, winter sports, and then you always had like the cds and this was our favorite song.
00:41:03.625 --> 00:41:14.342
Um, so this reminds me of driving with my parents, like feeling safe in the back, hearing this song on our way to winter sport, which was like the highlight of the year, which still is.
00:41:14.342 --> 00:41:22.288
So sometimes when I'm either feeling really low, I put it on, or when I'm feeling really high, I also put it on.
00:41:22.288 --> 00:41:24.032
So it's a really nice song.
00:41:24.574 --> 00:41:26.099
Cool, that's a great introduction.
00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:27.242
Thanks for bringing that song.
00:41:27.242 --> 00:41:33.443
Thank you for listening, and while you're listening to the next song, please do us a favor leave a rating in the app until next time.
00:41:33.443 --> 00:41:34.244
Keep it up.
00:41:45.516 --> 00:41:48.159
When you're close to tears.
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:48.418
Remember.
00:41:48.418 --> 00:41:52.710
Someday it'll all be over.
00:41:52.710 --> 00:42:00.112
One day we're gonna get so high.
00:42:00.112 --> 00:42:12.552
Though it's darker than December, what's ahead is a different color.
00:42:12.552 --> 00:42:31.355
One day we're gonna get so high and, at the end of the day, remember the days when we were close to the edge and we'll wonder how we made it through.
00:42:32.362 --> 00:42:43.724
And, at the end of the day, remember the way we stayed so close to the edge, and we'll remember it was me and you, cause we are gonna be forever, you and me.
00:42:43.724 --> 00:42:58.476
You will always keep me flying high in the sky of love.
00:42:58.476 --> 00:43:09.650
Don't you think it's time you started doing what we always wanted?
00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:13.286
One day we're gonna get so high.
00:43:19.702 --> 00:43:24.974
Cause even the impossible is easy.
00:43:24.974 --> 00:43:41.115
When we got each other One day we gonna get so high, high, high, high At the end of the day.
00:43:41.115 --> 00:43:52.773
Remember the days when we were close to the end and we wondered how we made it through and at the end of the day, we remember the way we stayed so close to the end.
00:43:54.563 --> 00:44:34.097
We remembered it was me and you cause we are gonna be forever, you and me you will always keep me Flying high in the sky of love High high, high, high, at the end of the day, remember the days when we were close to the end and the wonder of how we made it through.
00:44:34.097 --> 00:44:39.806
And I, at the end of the day, remember the way we stayed so close to the end.
00:44:40.902 --> 00:45:20.320
But remember it was me and you, cause we are gonna be Forever and me We'll always keep Flying high in the sky Forever and me, cause we are gonna be forever, you and me, with a whiskey flying high in the sky of love.
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:51.903
Cause we are gonna be forever, you and me, we'll always keep it flying high in the sky of love.
00:45:51.903 --> 00:46:17.047
Thank you for watching you.