You Cannot Buy Reliability Without Doing The Groundwork - With Dan Bridges

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Hello everybody, welcome back to another special episode of the Reliability Gang podcast.
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I've got a very special guest with me this afternoon, Mr.
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Dan Bridges.
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Hello, how you doing?
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How are we keeping, buddy?
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I'm alright, mate.
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Good to see you.
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Yeah, it is actually a while since we've actually caught up together.
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Too long.
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We've uh we've had our little kind of not annual but kind of quarterly get together, talking about services, what we're doing, and all the rest of it.
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And I thought, do you know what?
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Me and Dan, whenever we get together, we probably talk about everything other than other than what we what we should be doing, and we kind of check the time and be like, oh crap, I've got to be able to go, I need to be able to do whatever.
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But we always have some really great conversations about reliability.
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It's been a pleasure working with you over the last two years now, I think it is.
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Uh yeah, it is now.
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Yeah, two years.
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I've learned a lot from Dan.
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He's got he's very passionate.
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Like, I have, I have, I have.
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And do you know what?
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I think for me it was really refreshing to come somewhere where it's a bit like, right, okay, we're gonna do some CN, but have you got the framework and the basis?
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And like, yeah, I've done my criticalities, I know exactly what you want to do.
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Well, here's your list, here's what I want to do.
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This is what and I was like, wow, you know what I mean?
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Because how many places we go, and it's just you've got this big blanket approach and stuff like that.
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Just cover it all.
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Yeah, cover it all, and then just you know, don't go in really deep.
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But it it was um it was very easy to do when I first started it because I had so much time to do it.
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So it was like, right, come in.
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I know the kit anyway, because I'm from Soft Drinks, so we saw soft drinks, it's the same age of equipment I've always been used to.
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So the criticality was was dead simple.
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Um and then what then built out of that was well, I need to do this, this, and this, and I need somebody to come and do it.
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So I hadn't had the opportunity to get you or Will anywhere I'd been before, so it was perfect.
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And it aligned beautifully, didn't it, when we came in and done it.
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What got you kind of first involved with reliability?
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You know, tell us a bit about yourself and your journey, Dan, of where you've come from.
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Because first bit of reliability.
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Um chose to do it, you kind of fell into it, is that right?
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Or was it kind of like uh was it a career choice, or was it something that you just kind of end up falling into?
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It was so I've been in soft drinks now for nearly 20 years.
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The first big soft drinks factor that I worked in was in Kent, Silver Spring Soft Drinks, and that had a massive engineering function.
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It it was it was called internally uh an engineering company that just happens to make soft drinks.
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There was that many engineers, yeah, yeah, welders, fabricators, and everything like that, and that was all very regimented, monthly, three-monthly, six-monthly, yearly inspections.
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You've got all of these engineers going around at the weekend with grease guns and stuff, taking things apart and putting it back together again, and getting absolutely no value out of it.
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Like none.
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It would still fail the exact same way the following week as it did do, you know, the week before.
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Um, so that's where it that's where the soft drinks part come from, and where I kind of understood what engineering was.
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And then I went to AG Bar in Milton Keynes, and that was the first insight into actually how reliability should work and how you should look after your kit.
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It's not about following the manuals and doing exactly what we do.
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Don't do exactly what the OEM says.
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Show me why it's wrong, show me why it needs this doing to it.
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So that and when we were there, it was like the entire solar system would align because it was myself, my two good friends, uh Lee Pringle and James Rowlands, and we worked together, we'd known each other from Silver Spring, but now we were in this environment where Lee drove us and he drove us in the direction of reliability, and we just we knew where we had to sit in our little hierarchy.
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A little trio, yeah, nice.
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Um we was called the Trinity.
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There you go, then we were called the Trinity.
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And and that was the eye-opener as we worked through the Amos assessment, and we went from bad to world class in three years.
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Wow, that's incredible.
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Um you actually see this, you see the change.
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Yeah.
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You see it from the start of actually doing it and then actually seeing the results of that.
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So I mean wow.
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Saw it, it was driven.
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We were very fortunate to have a factory manager that understood where we needed to get to, and there was just buy-in from everywhere.
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So it was us in Milton Keynes, and then we also pulled in uh the two Scottish factories as well.
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So then there's all three Age Bar plants striving for Amos world class.
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That's incredible.
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So we had the whole group in on it, it was great.
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So then that's that's where it all been out from.
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So that's kind of like the first kind of journey where you've actually, you know, got stripes, really.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Because I think a lot of people can do reliability courses, but until you actually go into a place and you actually make the change, it's really difficult to see how it can actually have an impact.
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How important is it that you get?
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Because obviously, again, I mean, incredible journey, right?
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You know, one to three years to be able to go from where you were to world class.
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Obviously, that's not the same journey as most places take.
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What does it take to get senior leadership on board?
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Do you know what I mean?
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And say, for example, you know, you you as an AG Bar, say, you know, give it a little bit of a you know role play, and you didn't have and maybe the Trinity knew what to do, right?
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The Trinity were there, they had the tools and you had the right mindset.
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But say, for example, your engineer manager or the guy at the top didn't understand that or didn't want to go with it, does that actually stop the whole program entirely?
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Or is there ways you can get around it to convince them to do it?
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Um AEG Bar was one of the kind one of the companies where you could do what you wanted in effect.
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It was very freedom.
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Yeah, yeah.
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There was there was a lot of freedom.
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But during during the process, it was understood at board level that actually this is a really, really important thing to do, and it will drive the performance, and as you say multiple times, it brings your bottom end up, so it's an absolute no-brainer.
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Yeah.
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But it's it's getting across the the value of what concentrating on this stuff does.
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Do you have to speak a different language to the board?
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Because they don't necessarily understand the engineering practices.
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Uh no, they definitely don't understand the engineering practice.
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Is it all money that you have to speak to on the return on investment?
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Is that the way that that's the way they they they they understand it, isn't it?
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Do you know what I mean?
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So I think that's another thing that we've at maintain, we've had to have a bit of a different communication style change because you know us, we're engineers, right?
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You know, we we love talking about engineering and and all the all the all the technology and all the great stuff it can do.
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But now we're starting to have a different level of the conversation with some directors and stuff.
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So now we're having to really understand how well how do we actually do a return on investment study?
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How do we actually map out to them to say, look, these are the things that are going to cost you now, but this is the unlocked potential that you have?
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And I think with reliability, the unlocked potential is millions.
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It's it's such a multiplier, right?
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And I think sometimes it's so hard for companies to see the short-term pain to be able to get over some of the stuff that needs to be done to get to the higher level of where we're at.
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How do we communicate with them people?
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Do you know what I mean?
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If you haven't got that language, if you if if the if there's a big blockade between the two, I feel like sometimes it's like, is this ever going to change here?
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Because we're speaking to some customers where engineer managers want to do it.
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They were like you, they were like the Trinity.
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They're like, Yeah, we we we know what we need to do, but Will, I can't I can't do it because I need to be able to do they need to learn how to communicate better with the people above them.
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So, what what I've learned over the last two and a half years, now I'm in the head of ops role here, is how important it is to try to pull everybody into it from the shop floor.
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Yeah.
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If you need to be able to get the shop floor motivated and involved first, and then once that for me anyway, once that ground is kind of broken and you've got more people involved and they want to achieve it, then it just kind of naturally filters up because then you can start saying at the at the SLTs and your quarterlies and six months and stuff that actually we're we're doing this and it's going really well, and you can see this in the in the trends of the lines, they're running better, less breakdowns, less money to spend on breakdowns, less headache as well, and less, you know.
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The guys want to be sitting there at what four o'clock and there's a breakdown, do they?
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Because that can be so demoralised and kind of you know, they have to stay late, you know, then the company has to pay more money for overtime, and the cost overheads can be just so big with that.
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But I think I've definitely seen here is that, you know, everyone that you talk to has a very high respect for you, and the way that you talk to people is very friendly.
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Do you know what I mean?
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And it seems like you've got a great team, the great culture here.
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How do you build that?
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You know, say for example, you were going into a plan where you didn't know anyone, how do you start to build a really good culture where people are aligned with it when they don't necessarily get what you're doing?
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Is it an overtime thing?
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Do you have to kind of, you know, make friends with people or just try to get and see the value?
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Because again, when I come here, it's a really good energy, do you know what I mean?
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And it's not like that everywhere, Dan.
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I'm not gonna lie.
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You know, you go some places and you feel it, you know, all right, I don't know even though I can talk in it or not, what do I do?
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What do I go?
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You know, it's just about building human relationships and making sure that you're not portraying yourself as something that you're not.
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Okay, so it's that honesty of I think people see through that all day long.
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So the my employer before here, I I called myself Daniel, not Dan.
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I've never been Daniel.
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It's only my.
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And it's horrible.
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It's only my mum that calls me Daniel.
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Yeah, I know, unless you'd be naughty when I think but I've try I try to portray this version of me that's like it's a little bit more professional.
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Exactly, a bit more professional and kind of holier than thou, and it it doesn't build that rapport.
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Um being where I was before, because I didn't know the plant and the kit, it allowed me to do the criticality and to do the really in-depth work on the CMMS and put all the systems in place and things like that, but it didn't allow me to actually really drag everyone into it.
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So what I learned when I left there was you just got to be yourself, first and foremost, just be yourself, and then you can push, but it's very, very difficult in a company that that doesn't have a lot of resource, yeah.
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Incredibly, incredibly difficult.
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So what I've also learnt here is it's about choosing your battles, yeah, not just going absolutely gung-ho for everything, but just slowly building.
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Yeah, you have to, I suppose, because I think you've been in roles as well before where they probably have had the resource or they've had the spend, they've had the money.
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And I think every company wants to go on the journey, right?
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Everybody wants to be able to improve the output of whatever it is, what reliability brings, but every company has a different roadmap, you know, and and a bit like AG Bar, you know, from naught to three years, that probably took quite a lot of investment, right?
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Massive.
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Probably a huge amount of money.
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Massive, you know, and you've got people also have to put their hands in their pocket before they see the results.
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Yeah, you know, and that can be really difficult to do sometimes, especially, you know, even in my business now, sometimes, like when we first started coming into a bit of money, it was oh great, we need to buy some tools.
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You know, we buy new facom spans.
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Well, what value does a facom span bring?
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You know, we've got these nice new facom bads, okay, it might look nice on site, but the reality was with it, it was a case of you know, you're always having to question what you're doing and what the outcome is.
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And even if you're having a small business like ours, you've got to look after the pennies because if you don't quite quickly you find out that you're you're you're not ahead of it.
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So I think as well, what is really difficult for some companies to do, especially where you've got resource dependency and you're really difficult to be able to find the right.
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But not but not just in terms of cash resource, it's like people resource, people resource and time, and the pay having the paper resource gives you the time.
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Yeah, that's it.
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How do you get around that though?
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Because I mean most of the sites that we go to are don't probably suffer from the same level of not having the people, but everyone's trying to restrict the number of people that work for them.
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Yeah.
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And they're trying to now, like, again, I don't want to diss myself because we're kind of contractors, right?
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So I don't want to say, I mean, we work very closely with people and we do develop good partnerships and we want to become an extension of your team.
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But what we see a lot of time now is sites trying to really minimize their workforce, then just trying to bring contractors here and there to be able to subsidise when they need it.
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Yeah.
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But sometimes you can't retain the skill, you can't retain the knowledge of the plant.
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Yeah, they're not there every single day.
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Do they care as much, mate?
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We do.
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I'm not saying we don't, we definitely do, but not I'm saying everybody does because you know, when you've got that little family around you, they you want to do, they want to do the best they can for you, do they?
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How do we counteract to that?
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Is that something that we have to say into the industry as a return on investment, or is it just going to keep getting worse and worse and worse, you know, in terms of headcount, you know?
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Uh that's a hard question.
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The headcount piece across the board, and not just within the engineering functions, but across the you know, the entire factory factory.
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The entire factory that's running, everybody's trying to take cost out, and the easiest way to take the cost out is to take the heads out.
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Head count, yeah.
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It's what a lot of people do it, isn't it?
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But you have to you have to retain as much of the knowledge on site as possible to be able to maintain any kind of output because otherwise you can't get the output if you haven't got the you know the knowledge skills that are there.
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Yeah, I know.
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In terms of engineering and being able to recruit engineers and retain engineers, I've I've been told since 1996 that there's a shortage of engineers.
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You're gonna get paid more money, there's gonna be less and less, you're gonna get paid more and more and more and more and more and more.
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And f for me and what I've seen, I haven't seen a difficulty in one hiring an engineer, or two, retaining them.
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I've not I've You're a good manager there, I'm not sure.
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I personally haven't.
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Yeah, interesting.
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And uh where it comes back to that human piece and building teams and rapport and being able to talk to other people, it's the human approach again in terms of trying to get an engineer.
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Yeah.
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I suppose as well, I think for even engineers as well, if they can feel a part of something, you know, because I w I go to a lot of places as well, and I'd say a high percentage of places, a lot of engineers are quite frustrated and a little bit, you know.
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And I I think it's time over time this happening.
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I don't think everybody is just, oh, I don't want to be here.
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I think it happens over time when it they gradually, you know, maybe, maybe they are a little bit, oh, I've found the problem, you know, can we do something about it?
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And it kind of gets ignored.
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You know, oh I've I've done this, and maybe they have tried to extend themselves a little bit and then they don't really feel like their recommendations have any value.
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I think over a certain period of time they just get to this place where they're a little bit, you know, frustrated and then they're like, well, I'm not gonna bother anyway, and then then you end up just you know kind of doing the menial stuff every single day without really pushing the boundary.
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Yeah.
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But I suppose again, I think, like you said, if you have got that human approach and you are listening and you are genuinely caring about your team and people, I don't think that is possible to be like that eventually.
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Do you know what I mean?
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No, you know, because you you you generally care about what people have got to say and you know, and all the rest of it.
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So I think for me, I think that's a really valid point.
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But I mean, I'll be honest, like the percentage is higher in terms of frustrated engineers than it is guys that are really proactive.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Do you think that is down to that human element and being that manager does care?
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Or do you think that's down to maybe just big organizations don't have the ability to be able to have that human connection with people?
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Oh, there's a lot of that.
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There's definitely a lot of that human face, but there's also from what I've experienced over the years, is the the level of effort and the level of care and the will to go and do stuff has kind of ebbed away slowly, slowly, slowly over time.
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You can see their soul just being dragging, you know.
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And you have to try to cajole them into, well, actually, look, we've got this problem and we've had this amount of time to do it, so let's go and make a plan and so we can actually go and attack it.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.399
Yeah.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:39.440
Because my approach here, and basically everywhere has been on the shop floor like 50% of the time, minimum.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:45.840
So I'm out with it that much, I can see the problems, and it will come on, let's go and have a look at this.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:47.679
Or, well, why haven't you seen that?
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.000
You're doing the route every day, you should be seeing that.
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.960
I think that's as well though.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.080
I think that's important though, innit?
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.799
And I think this is why I see you run around like choo choo choo choo everywhere.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:04.240
But you know, you see the value in doing that because you know, a lot of managers as well, they probably won't go out on the shop floor a huge amount of time, you know what I mean?
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.720
But I think every time I've been here, you've been out on the shop floor.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:07.440
Do you know what I mean?
00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:17.680
Because you are out there showing people or whatever, or you know, helping people, and I think that's so intrinsically important as a leader to be the person that is actually doing the work and out there doing it.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:23.119
Because I think people will follow by that example opposed to just telling what someone to do from an office point of view.
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:35.759
And it it's difficult though, because it it can burn you out at the same time because there's that element of wanting to help people, but there's always there's always a negative for that in terms of you know just your mental space, really.
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.319
It is draining, as you found out this week.
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:39.519
I know, yeah, exactly.
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:49.359
And we had a bit of an incident, we had uh, you know, Harry unfortunately broke his hand, bless him, and we had a very important job, and it was a bit like I have to come do that job now.
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:49.920
Do you know what I mean?
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:59.440
It was in Yeoville, it was quite a way away, and you know, there was quite a few you know jobs getting done and completed today, which is amazing, but I had to be there because it was such an important job.
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.920
But I had a six-hour drive back yesterday.
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.960
Yeah, I don't like to drive back because today we had a meeting today with you, and it was so important that we did this.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.599
You know, I wasn't gonna cancel it again from being busy.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.960
I had a meeting this morning as well, which is a really important one.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.279
It's just like I had to do, you just have to do, do you know what I mean?
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.200
You have to do it, you just have to do it, yeah.
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:30.880
And it's it's hard though as well, because you know, you try to explain to your missus and your kids while you're away, and you know, and they don't want you to be away, but then it's really weird because I don't know about you, and I think you're probably the same as me.
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:44.240
You've got this thing that you just love and you're just drawn to it, and it's almost insanity because you know that you know, when you do it, overly do it, you get burnt out, you make it the people you love maybe a little bit unhappy, but it's just something about it.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:44.720
Yes.
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.079
I don't really know what that is.
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:47.680
If I'm on it, it's obviously passion.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:48.319
Passion.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:58.400
But obviously, there's something there that's pulling us towards it, and I generally think there's so many people in reliability that have that, you know, have that thing, they can't really put the finger on why.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:59.200
Do you know what I mean?
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:04.559
It's just the one thing they love to be able to do is to help the company get through the hard times and get them through it.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:05.440
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.359
Do we need more engineers like that?
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:08.079
Yes.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:15.440
That's I don't think we've got I think there is a lack of engineers, I do, but I think there's more of a lack of that passion.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:19.759
There's more of that lack of wanting to be able to do more without really explaining why.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.759
There's more of that, and you know, for us, we do the podcast and stuff like this.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:30.400
It's great to get you on here, show you as well to everyone, and and get your passion out there and all the rest of it.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:35.359
But how do we start to really inspire this younger generation of engineers that come in through?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.079
Because I'll be honest, Dan, we ain't doing enough, mate.
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:43.440
Oh, you look at schools, you look at really what's going on in schools and stuff, and the curriculum hasn't changed a massive amount.
00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:45.759
You know, I see what my my son's doing and stuff.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.480
There's no real engineering, even from an early level, is there?
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.200
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.400
Really, in terms of what it is.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:20:00.400
Okay, there's some science and bits and bobs, but people really don't really see engineering until at least they get to college ages, and then after that, you go to college, then you're just learning how to fix things.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:01.440
There's no reliability.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.240
There's like I I come across this when I was like 24.
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.039
It's like, how many years could I have been ahead of the game?
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:07.759
You know what I mean?
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.200
And then I had to build a business in it.
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.559
Then I really learned, I was like, oh my god, this is what it's about, you know what I mean?
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:20.079
So, like, there clearly is at entry level, there's not enough being done, isn't it, mate?
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:35.279
Uh I've I I I think it comes from parents and schools and uh colleges and universities, their need to give a person a certificate that says, yeah, you can go and do that.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.000
That that's what you're qualified at, you can go and do that.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:44.960
Well, I'm absolutely of the opinion of you don't actually need that bit of paper.
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:59.920
I know, yeah, because we can just do targeted uh courses to bring your skill levels up in either the bits that you're really interested in and just push for that, which is where your passion comes from, or the bits where you think that you're weak.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:29.279
And it and it takes uh engineering managers and hiring managers and all these other people in in the big companies and stuff, that when they take these young lads and young girls on, instead of saying, right, you're gonna go and do three, four, five years, and you're gonna get this certificate at the end of it, well, why don't we come and get you on the job, you work with the most experienced person that we've got on shift, they'll mould you, you'll learn from them, and then we can pick and choose as to what courses you want to do after that.
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:29.759
Oh, yeah.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.000
I think the whole approach of degrees and HNCs and all that, it's just so regimented.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:36.799
It is regimented out.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:38.240
And it's not regimented out there.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:43.920
It's not, it's like almost they're preparing us for something that's not reality when we actually get into the work and working life, is it?
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:45.519
You know, and it's so true in it.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:50.720
You know, you go to school, and you've got uh even at school, it's like, oh, what grades are you gonna get?
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.279
And the pressure put on people with exams.
00:21:53.440 --> 00:22:05.039
I remember Will Crane was teaching some VA level one for a for a site, they did some private courses, and There's a couple of the students that were so nervous with the exam.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:06.480
Whether that was going to pass or play out.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.480
And you know, for me, I've never really had that with exams.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.839
I've been always been quite good.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.160
But I can I I've, you know, one of our lads, Tom Up North, he's a great engineer.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:18.160
And he can do he can do vibration.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.599
I've seen him, I've seen him do it.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:26.240
But when it comes to doing the exam, just so he's got a piece of paper to say it, the exams he hates it, he gets very flustered and whatever.
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:37.519
And I think there's this pressure that we've got in society to be able to say, yes, I am this, I'm level two, I'm level three, and we we you know we've got these these labels that essentially don't actually represent how we do the job.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:40.240
And I I do I do agree with you, mate.
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:41.680
I do think that needs to change.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:44.559
Because until we change that narrative, it's always going to be the same.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:46.720
We're always going to keep experiencing the same problem.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:47.519
Do you know what I mean?
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.559
So I've got uh young eng young engineer Ally.
00:22:51.519 --> 00:23:00.000
He went to college and he did um level three, I think it was, mechanical engineering, and he couldn't get a job afterwards.
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:02.559
So he ended up working in the process plant here.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:10.799
Um, and then I took him out of process and brought him into engineering, and over the course of the last three years we've done exactly what I've said.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.039
Do you want to go and do college work?
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:20.960
Or for me personally, I said to Allie, I think we should put individual courses in what you want to do and build you up that way.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.839
He's phenomenal, he's a great engineer.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:25.519
That's a great idea, by the way.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:34.799
You know, just like picking out the things as well, because I think every company falls into the trap of doing it the conventional way, because that's kind of always where it's been done.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:50.880
But even with us as well, now we've started to not do that exactly the way that you've said it, but with you know, there's quite wide condition monitors, lots of different, you know, services that we offer from you know, vibration, from thermal imaging, from ultrasound, so now motor current signature analysis, new technologies.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.279
But what you'll find is that certain people will really like a certain subject.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:55.519
Yeah.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:57.119
And they'll be like, Oh, I really like this.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.799
I really and you'll you'll see little signs of it when they use the equipment or whatever, and they'll be like, Oh, Will, I really enjoyed that, or I really enjoyed the survey.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:13.359
Again, another one OGI surveys, we've got a guy that really loves finding leaks and leak detection because he sees the value when he finds it, and and I think it's not even the process of it.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.559
I think what he loves is the reaction from the customer when he finds something.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:17.279
Do you know what I mean?
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:22.559
So he's very goals-driven in that way, and you know, the vibration could be a little bit more subjective, right?
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.720
You have to test the asset, then you have to do the analysis, and then you have to then say, right, this is what it is.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:34.079
Whereas when you see it instant, like thermal imaging, you see, okay, 120 degrees in the panel on the contact, you know, ah, it's brilliant, I found it.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:35.599
It's a little bit more instant.
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:41.039
But I've got guys that are very different in that way, where some really like the instant kind of results.
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.960
That's where the thermal imaging and and the OGI comes in really handy, right?
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:53.200
Because you can visually see the leak or or or the defect, with vibrations a little bit analytical, and I've got some analytical guys that love the problem solving.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.680
They they get really like into the, you know, yeah, look at they're like solving the puzzle.
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.200
You see him getting really into it.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.839
Like Will Crane, you know, shout out to Will.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.119
He's really like that.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.599
He really loves just diving in, and sometimes you like solving the problem so much.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:09.920
He doesn't even get to the outcome, like, right, Will, what's the outcome, mate?
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:16.240
We need to, you know, great, you found the problem, mate, but we need to, you know, put in the report and you know, meeting him being part opposite, you know.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.319
You you you say that when you meet other Will.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:18.880
Yeah, he does.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:20.640
You say that is how he works.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.559
Very calculated, his brain works in binary, it's that's kind of the running joke.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:36.640
But what what I love about that is that we have, you know, even 10 people at main team, and you obviously manage a lot more people than that, but each and every single one has a different character and a different way of learning.
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:45.200
And some guys, you know, really love to read a manual, like Will loves to read a manual, because that's how he was taught, you know.
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:53.920
But then I've got Brandon, for example, we've got these new meta glasses, and I did some SOPs with the OGI camera, and he loved it.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:01.839
He said, Will I uh that one video has given me I don't know exactly how to use it, and I was like, what a great idea.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:08.079
So now what we're doing is like being quite clever in the sense that we need to use different techniques to communicate with different people.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:08.559
Absolutely.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.240
So but you've got to know them first, in your dad.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:11.279
Like you said with the human bar.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:24.079
Uh there's a there's a range of well, I'm sure there's lots of lots of ways to do it, but there's a a range of questions that you can ask people at interview stage to find out how they learn.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:24.960
Okay.
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.119
Because then you you you can you can score it to understand what they're learning about.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.599
So, what questions would you ask them to be able to understand that?
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:33.200
I would have to go and get the little book.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.200
Yeah, there's there's a proper process to that.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:35.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.359
Have you heard of disc profiling?
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:38.000
Uh yes.
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.160
It's very similar to uh, and again, that's something that hugely opened my eyes.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.759
Because I don't I I thought generally people, because I'm quite excitable, right?
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:50.880
And I could probably tell you're quite similar to me in terms of the profiling with being maybe quite a high eye.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:51.680
Do you know what I mean?
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.720
You would probably, you know, profile very similarly, I can see it.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.559
But I'm really excitable.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:02.240
And what really frustrates me is when I've got a great idea and someone's like, yeah, it's quite cool.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.200
I'm like, What?
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:05.200
What do you mean it's cool?
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.079
Why are you not excited about why are you not excited?
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.720
And and you know, I I I noticed that, and and I thought, is he being funny with me?
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:13.839
Or is he do you know what I mean?
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:23.119
But then when I started to understand profiling, someone who's like who's who's on the opposite end of that spectrum, who's a high C, who likes all the data, they don't get excited in the same way.
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:24.079
No, they don't.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:30.720
So it's like I started to realise, oh no, it's not, it's not it doesn't like me or hates me, it's just who he is.
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:42.720
And when you start to realise that, your conversation style with everyone really changes because it opens your eyes up to a perception that it's not you that's always the problem, it's just you're different in the way that you communicate.
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:48.160
Yeah, and and I think to be to be like managing anyone, you really need to understand who you're dealing with, don't you?
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.799
Do you know what I mean?
00:27:48.880 --> 00:28:01.519
And sometimes I forget that okay, I'm speaking to a slightly different profile when that and I have to remind myself to sometimes slow down a little bit and maybe not be so excitable because they're not going to be able to mirror that energy.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:03.119
Do you do the same with your guys?
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.000
Do you have a bit of an idea of kind of like where they are at and how to get the best out of it?
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.720
I suppose it's more difficult when you've got more people to go off.
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:20.160
Not not in not to the the level of depth of doing a disc profile, but just being able to understand what feedback they're giving you.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:21.759
Yeah, and how they respond the drawing.
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:23.359
Oh, yeah, no, I shouldn't have said that.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.880
Yeah, crowd, there's a there's a bit of a deadly silence.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:28.799
Why haven't they done it?
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:35.039
Well, but uh didn't actually say what they needed to hear to be able to go and do it.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:36.559
100%, mate.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.680
Moving on to kind of predictive technologies and stuff like that.
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:44.160
Obviously, we've done some vibration analysis here and you understand the value of it.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.880
You've obviously seen it in previous companies.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.359
How does that add value to you as well?
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.119
And also, where do you see the future going with predictive technologies?
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:58.720
And also, why is it how is it valuable when if you haven't done the reliability stuff?
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:03.119
Because here you've done a lot of the pre-work that allowed enabled it to be valuable.
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:10.240
Yeah, you have you you have to you've you've said it loads of times, there's lots of people out there that have said exactly the same thing.
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:25.519
You have to do the groundwork first, it's utterly pointless just going out there and throwing a tensor on every single asset, every single motor, we're gonna do VA on this every single month, and we're gonna get a team in, and they're gonna do it every day.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.200
Really?
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.000
Who's gonna sit there and go through all of that data?
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.039
They're not.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:41.839
So when you talk about predictive technology and there was a whole raft of industry 4.0 and do you think that was a bit of a fad, though?
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.119
Oh, industry 4.0.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:44.720
I think it was digital twins.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.200
It was a marketing scheme, was it not?
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.359
Come on, all you're doing is selling the wireless vibration sensor with no value.
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:51.680
I know.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:57.440
I just feel like that 4.0 wave that we had was such a market employ, wasn't it?
00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:58.000
Absolutely.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:06.319
You've got a wireless sensor, but then it's like it's this wireless thing that I think humans have this weird connection with, oh, it's got no wireless.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:07.519
It's wireless, must be good.
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:09.680
It's it's good, it's got no, oh, I've got wireless headphones.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.200
I've got wireless earbuds.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:26.640
I mean, I can see the value in them, but like, you know, it's But the the the predictive part of it, I think, will only ever be uh very widespread when all of the data is pulled much more than it is now.
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:27.839
And it's cheaper.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:38.240
So the so the it's gonna be a mod a large language model, isn't it, that sits underneath all of this data anyway, that can then learn provided that all the information is fed into it.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:46.319
That's that's that that asset and it's doing that task, and that one's doing that task, and so then it learns then.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:57.440
Um I think it's probably gonna be an incredibly long way away from actually your average factory like us being able to say, yep, we're gonna do predictive now, because we can't.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:59.680
Yeah, it's just we're not there yet, are we?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:00.720
It's not there yet.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:14.319
I mean, there are there are there are there are companies now that are embedding it into their machinery, but it's at the the price point of it's only ever gonna be, you know, your top footsy companies that can actually afford to buy that kit to be able to do it.
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.319
Yeah, and also a long time to fill it out.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:25.119
These companies are already getting the value out of the the you know the technology and and and you know the the the value out of the vibration anyway.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.880
How much extra value does it get when you're already at the top of the tree?
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:29.839
Do you know what I mean?
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:41.519
Like, is it really going to so is this whole AI revolution where all the machines are learning, you know, when your failure rates are down anyway and your OE is absolutely smashed because you've done the defect elimination?
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680
Yeah, like and this is another thing I think a lot of people are going down a bit of a rabbit hole.
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.720
We want to focus on understanding when a machine's gonna fail, but where's the money in actually eliminating the defects so they don't even fail in the first place?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:53.119
Yep.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.240
Do you do you know what I mean?
00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:03.119
So we're like, oh my god, we're gonna have this complete AI model when everything's gonna be under it, it's gonna see all the process stuff and it's gonna it's like, well, why don't we just eliminate it?
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.839
I think And everyone's looking around and say, well, that doesn't make any money though, does it, Will?
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:20.400
I think the I think the I think the fundamental driver for that within business currently is to be able to remove as much of the workforce as possible off the factory floor.
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:28.480
Um China, loads of cobots doing jobs that ordinarily a pu a human would do, especially in this kind of industry.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:29.680
I mean we see it now all the time.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:37.519
Dark factories, the only way that's ever going to work 100% is with that level of AI underneath it.
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:37.759
Yeah.
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.000
That's it, that's where the value comes with AI model.
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:40.880
But you you're right.
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:50.720
I mean, I was in Germany last week, actually, and you know, you know, the the self-kind of pallet palletisers, and obviously all of these were driven before.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:02.640
The site's just gone over a huge renovation, and it's like, I mean, the factory of tomorrow, you know, you've got all of these palletizers where that generally could probably be about 30, 40 people driving these these trucks.
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:04.319
Yeah, AGVs, LGVs.
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:11.759
And I think we are, you know, we are heading towards that revolution, aren't we, a little bit, where we are seeing technology actually replace these people, aren't we?
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:12.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:14.880
How quick do you think it is until it really has an impact?
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:16.000
Or we already there yet?
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.920
In in Europe, uh, probably easily a decade away.
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:25.519
Before easily a day, I would say easily a decade away before we get to the level that China are at now.
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.279
Yeah, because they they're well ahead, aren't they?
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:28.720
How many years do you think they're ahead?
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:29.359
Ten years.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.119
Do you think they're a decade ahead?
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:31.680
Easily.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:33.680
Yeah, that's mad, isn't it?
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:34.799
They have to be.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.400
That's crazy.
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:39.119
I mean, look how cheap they're manufacturing cars for now.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:39.519
Yep.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:40.559
And they're good as well.
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:41.759
You know, they used to be really.
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:46.000
You know, they used to be really crap, didn't they?
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.240
But now you know you're walking in them and you're like, oh my god.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:49.839
You know what car I've got.
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:50.400
Yeah.
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.519
B Y D.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:53.200
Hate it.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:56.079
I've got a chance to look.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:59.279
Do you not like it then?
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:00.960
Oh no.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.640
I think it looks quite nice, or is it like not as No, it's not for me.
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:05.519
It's not your dream, Dan.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.880
It's not my cuff of two.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:07.599
No.
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:12.480
Oh Dan, I've got to say, what a great conversation it's been, mate.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:14.079
Um, appreciate you jumping on.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:16.719
I do think there's a part two involved in this, if I'm honest.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:18.000
Um, do you know what I mean?
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.400
So I will be here over the next few months as well.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.920
So I'm sure that we can get Dan on to talk of more pressing subjects.
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.400
But honestly, mate, I really appreciate you coming on.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.320
Any last words for guys on the podcast?
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:29.519
No, just thank you.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.079
Yeah, just thank you.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:33.280
Cheers, buddy.
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:34.239
I appreciate it.
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:35.119
Take care, guys.
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:35.840
We'll catch you on the next.