Dr. David Gruder Interviews - BILL STIERLE - Reimagining Political Conversations

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Get ready to reimagine the future of humanity and unlock
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your true potential. Welcome to Reimagining Humanity's Future and Yours,
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posted by doctor David Bruder, an internationally renowned integrative psychologist,
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human potential expert, author, and social change catalyst. As he
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delves into the most urgent issues of our time. With
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the world facing unprecedented challenges and social and political divides
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growing deeper, it's time to take action. Each episode of
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this groundbreaking series will empower you with invaluable insights, strategies,
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and tools to heal these divisions and restore personal freedom
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and societal well being. Whether you're a concerned citizen, a
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courageous leader, an influential figure, or an ambitious entrepreneur, Reimagining
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Humanity's Future and Yours will guide you on a transformative
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journey discover your unique role in creating a brighter future
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for yourself and society at large. Doctor David Gruder will
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draw upon his extensive knowledge and experience to provide practical
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solutions for shaping the world we live in. With his
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passionate exploration of social change, he will help you navigate
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through the complexities of our time and inspire you to
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make a meaningful impact, So prepare yourself for an eye
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opening experience as we delve deep into the heart of
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the matter. Reimagining Humanity's future and yours will challenge your perspectives,
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ignite your imagination, and equip you with the tools you
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need to reimagine and redefine the world around you. The
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time to transform our future is now. Join us on
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this incredible journey and enter a new era of possibility.
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For more information of doctor David Gruder and the Reimagining
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Humanity's Future and yours, visit www dot r h F
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Y dot c A. Welcome to Reimagining Humanity's Future and yours.
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Were together we create it brighter tomorrow now Here is
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the host of Reimagining Humanity's Future and yours, Doctor David Gruder.
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Welcome back to the Reimagining Humanity's Future in your show
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on the Exonne Broadcast Network. I'm your host, Doctor David Gruder,
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the polymath of human potential who equips leading edge leaders
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and influencers and you with transcendent ideals, values, principles, mindsets
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and skills for co creating humanity's most spiritually elevated future
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for generations to come. The title of this episode is
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reimagining political conversations that work, diffusing division, elevating connection. Political
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gridlock got you down, You're about to take a sanity
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aving dive into reimagining positive political conversations. Eves drop on
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the conversation I'll be having with my guest Bill Sterley,
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in which he'll reveal a simple formula for connection, show
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you how to transform bias to promote growth, and how
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to turn headbutting into heartlifting. In today's chronic chaos, this
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convo might just be your genius lifeline, and so you
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just got to listen to this dynamic discussion. Kicking off
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this sanity stand stand with me is Bill Sterley, the
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EI guy who's spent thirty five years cracking the code
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of integrating emotional and thinking intelligence. He's the brain behind
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the book The Emotional Sobriety Solution, and is a communication
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wizard who's transformed fortune, five hundred boardrooms, top business schools,
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and even Hollywood heavyweights with tools to rethink how we connect.
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From mediating high stakes conflicts to mentoring everyday folks. Bill's
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decoded why we clash and how to build bridges to
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greater closeness and better collaboration. He joins me in this
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episode to reimagine political conversations with empathy, grit, and a
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formula so simple you'll wonder why we're still yelling. Bill
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and I are about to dive straight into the EI,
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the emotional intelligence of the political chaos storm. So buckle
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up for a hailstorm of wisdom gems. Welcome to the
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reimagining Humanity's future in yours show.
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Bill dud is so delightful to be here and be
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able to contribute to your guests new ways to communicate
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in the face of conflict, because, as everybody may notice,
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we have to tad bit of conflict going on in
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our world today.
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Oh really, Okay, well, there's our first wisdom bomb that
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we just dropped. In this first segment, we'll look at
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the symptoms we experience when our conversations start to go south.
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But first, Bill, just really briefly, how did you even
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get interested in the beginning and applying your wisdom about
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emotionally intelligent conversations to political discussions.
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Well, the takeaway is is that human beings have three
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different lanes of communication. There is the lane that's language wise,
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that's based around a person's thinking style. So somebody can
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be a rational thinker, and somebody can be an interpersonal thinker.
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Somebody can be a creative thinker, or somebody can be
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an organizational thinker. There's different lanes of communication, and that's
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lane number one is called thinking, and that applies to
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politics because we've got to talk about budgets, we've got
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to talk about how the people are being served. We
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got to talk about regulations and safety. And then also
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the thing that's not talked about very much in politics
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is creativity, growth, future innovation, and those are the things
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that usually get cut first, right which is what we're
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noticing right now in the moment, is we're cutting our
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future in order to condense or overreact to safety narratives
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or isolation narratives, which is not really our strongest fit
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as a nation, especially if we want to lead agree.
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But I was asking how you got interested in this.
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Oh, well, I go to where the conflict is. So
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if the State of Michigan calls me into Flint, Michigan
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to train their frontline employees on how to deal with
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angry people, I kind of show there. Or if a
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city council calls me to say, hey, we've been dysfunctional
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for you know, the last year and a half because
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we have screaming people in the room. We need somebody
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to be able to handle when a person starts screaming
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and what do we say next?
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So was it consumer demand that propelled you into this
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or was it your own passion about repairing our country? Well?
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Both a little bit of both. I mean I think
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that I think that that I'm going to go to
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where I can create a great sense of healing and
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contribution and also stability. If we don't have stability as
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a nation, as stability with our institutions and our systems,
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then what winds up happening is more conflict shows up.
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And those are the things that draw me into that
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draw me into the political discussion. It's going like, we
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need a better way to talk about this, Okay. Big
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part of the tools that I use being trained by
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an international mediator in order to know what to say
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next when somebody says something terrible.
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And we'll get into that any next in a couple
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of segments in this episode from now. In the next segment,
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we actually will get into what causes conversations to deteriorate.
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But I first want to focus on symptoms that people
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commonly recognize their having when conversations are just beginning to
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go south and they end up ultimately contacting you after
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they've gone way south, probably, But what are the symptoms
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that people recognize that they're having when conversations are just
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beginning to go south.
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We really struggle with identifying small emotional upsets which might
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sound like irritated or unsettled or hesitant or anxious or torn.
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We don't use those words often enough. And those moments
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are the ones when it's going to go south or
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it's going to stay straight. So if I say I
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feel unsettled, when I hear you say dot dot dot,
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it doesn't really meet really my need for consideration or
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my need for fairness the way you're talking about this issue,
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so you're pulling it on your side to keep it
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from going south because it becomes adversarial very very very quickly.
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When into solutions now, right, right, So then I want
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to get into that later, Yes, I want to focus
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for now on things like what you're saying. People. People
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need to become more vigilant about recognizing when they feel
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things like unsettled, hesitant, anxious, torn, in order to know
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when it's time to speak up? What other are there
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other symptoms that people commonly have that they need to
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recognize and speak up about quicker? Where does that cover it?
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So the the human body, there's two hundred and ninety
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seven different molecules of emotion in a body that slosh
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back and forth.
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We're now getting into root causes.
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I know, and we'll do that my way to the symptom,
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because because all that has to happen in a conversation
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is somebody to do one of these watch this, and
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the emotional world changes. The symptom is there's a facial expression,
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there is a demonstration that's showing up, and the awareness
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that language and thought is driving those different reactions and
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how do we take that reaction is the space between
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the stimulus and right.
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And for people who are just listening to this episode
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rather than watching it, what you did just for their
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sake was that you modeled rolling your eyes and kind
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of tossing your head around. So it's it's a visible
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expression of essentially discussed.
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Yes, that might be a that might be a question
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that I would ask. So the gem to take away
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is a very simple sentence. Mind reading is overrated, right,
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We got to use curiosity and empathy to inquire about
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what does the double eye roll mean, what does the
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head shake mean, what does the tone of the voice mean.
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We've got to guess into whatever the hurt saying or doing.
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So there's another symptom mind reading instead of asking.
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Right right, And that's the and that's the challenge. And
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a part of that symptom is also changing a belief
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that we have. One of the beliefs that we have
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that get in a way of the symptoms is that
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we have a belief that there's a thing called a
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positive and a negative emotion. We have a belief that
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there's such a thing as a good feeling and a
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bad feeling. But really, David, what the real belief or
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the real truth is is feelings are only indicators. So
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we look at the symptom, We look at the feeling
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that's showing up, and don't make it wrong or right.
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Use it as an oil light, use it as an
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indicator talking to an oillit does that work, David? Does
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talking to an oilite work? Now? All right? Because that's
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called eight years of bad therapy. I do not want
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to problem solve the oil light. I do not want
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to talk to the oil light. I do not want
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to strategize. I have to get my butt out of
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the seed of the driver, go around, open the engine up,
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and check the oil. I got to put the oil
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in that is causing the oil light. And that's the
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thing that's missing in our narrative, both politics, interpersonally, relationship,
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business wise, we are not checking the oil. All we're
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doing is trying to fix the emotion.
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Okay, good. So another symptom is labeling our feelings as
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positive or negative rather than using them as warning lights.
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And another symptom is falling into premature problem solving and
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then noticing that that's happened because instead of problem solving
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actually moving forward, gridlock and deterioration emotionally results.
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That's correct, and what it does is it turns human
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beings into these really unsettling categories. The unsettling category is
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either you're going to be a nice dead person and
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walk on egg shells, or you're going to be a
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monster person because everything is built up and you're just
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going to react, react, reactor, react, react instead. And then
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the nice dead person, which is a part which is
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the problem that people are having when somebody is speaking
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enthusiastic or directive, or even using accusational language towards another person,
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the reactivity is high and the ability to respond effectively
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is low.
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Okay, so nice dead person walking on eggshells or monster
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person who's in reactivity and accusation mode. The rest of
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this episode dives into the root causes of the symptoms.
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We've just discussed what to look for in a solution,
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and one particular version of that solution, Oh my gosh,
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Bill just happens to have. After a short break, my
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great guest Bill Sterley and I will explore underrecognized root
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causes of what causes conversations to deteriorate. I'm doctor David Gruder.
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This is the reimagining Humanity's future in your show on
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the exiton Broadcast Network, and we'll be back momentarily. Welcome back.
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Before the break, my guest Bill Sterley and I discussed
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symptoms people commonly experience when conversations about touchy topics like
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politics start a downward spiral, and in this segment, as
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you already know, will delve into the underrecognized root causes
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of what creates conversation deterioration. So, Bill, what are some
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foundational issues that cause conversations on topics like political topics
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to deteriorate. You know, particularly root causes that people tend
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not to recognize.
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Hand grenade words and land mind phrases. Hand grenade words
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and land mind phrases when we use labels and diagnosses,
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when we get into name calling, those are called hand
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grenade words. So if I take a label and I
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stick it in a sentence, it'll blow up and the
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other personal experience shrapnel. If I use a phrase that
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is a landmine if I step on it, Oh my god,
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I just stepped on the conservative land mind. I just
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stepped on the liberal landmind. I just stepped on the
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the you are a socialist landmind. Oh you're a narcissist.
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I just threw a grenade at the person. I'm not
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a narcissist. You're too sensitive. They just threw a grenade
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back at me. So there's certain words and phrases that
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cause us to move into the state of either defensiveness
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or criticism or withdraw I'm going to step back. I
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don't know how to handle this contempt. You keep talking
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about that, but that's not really what's true. So the
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language goes sideways. It goes down the road to conflict.
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When we use labels and diagnoses and get and have
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phrases to activate the person's response for a fight, flight,
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freeze fane, they're going to cause the person to get
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emotional escalation. The molecules of emotion are slashing inside the
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human being and they don't know how to respond. Then
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they can't say they're going to become a nice dead
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person or a monster person instead of a compassionate, empathetic
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response person that can actually be solid in the experience
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from time to time. Joe Rogan actually does a pretty
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good job of being curious, Pete Buddha Judge does a
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really good job of being present and stable because they're
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at least in touch with Tell me more, let me
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figure that out, tell me more about that label or diagnosis. Well,
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actually I see it a little bit this way. They're
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actually both able to navigate communications, and each one of
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them have different approaches to that, but at least they're
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able to keep a conversation rolling in a collaborative to
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people going down the same path rather than advisarial to
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people shooting at each other.
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Got it well, at a root cause level, what you're
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identifying is a state that we know in our profession
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technically as flooding. And I'm going to explain this to
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our audience. So flooding is called flooding because when we're
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emotionally escalating, when our agitation levels keep rising beyond a
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certain kind of critical point, what gets released in our
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body is a whole bunch of different stress hormones like
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norepinephrin and adrenaline and cortisol. They go flying straight into
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our brain. And the function they have in our brain
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is they turn off the thinking part of our brain.
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They turn on the animal reptile parts of our brain,
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and the result is that we can't think our way
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out of a paper bag, and we are in reactivity mode.
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And as you accurately described, in reactivity mode, there are
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only four there's only a repertoire or four possibilities. We freeze,
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uh we we fight, freeze like deer in the headlights.
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We fight, we flee, we run away, or we faint.
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We play possime. We we just pretend like we're dead
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and we hope that the threat will pass.
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And I appreciate I appreciate that last one, that faint
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one has a cousin to it, which pease, I appease,
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I'm fainting, I'm appeasing, I'm putting my head down, I'm
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backing away. It's too emotionally unstable or there's not enough
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emotional safety for me to speak up. But if there
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was a way, and that's what we're going to talk
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about on the coming up next, is was a way
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to get our brain back online, to re engage the
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conversation even those those things that those moments take place.
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And David, I don't know if I ever did this
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exercise with you, but I audience, I have people tap
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the front part of their head and I say, okay,
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this part of your brain, in the front part of
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your head has four hundred thousand neuro connections per micron,
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And then I have people tap the back of their
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head and the back the limbic part of the brain,
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where emotional centers are, where safe keeping centers are, is
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four point three million, four point three million in the back,
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four hundred thousand in the front. It's a one to
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ten ratio. Watch this, David. Emotion and habit or safety
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always wins. Believes and biases always wins over logic and
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future thinking. I'm just pointing to the front part of
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my brain right now. And that's the problem that our
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language and our physiology. We don't have a really strong
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relationship between language and physiology. So what happens is all
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I gotta do is say, hey, you're an idiot, and
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all of a sudden the violence begins. Hey, why are
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you being so photopen over there? Hey how about that
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narcissism you're taking out for a spin? And all of
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a sudden, people, I'm not that I can't believe you're
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saying that to me. What the And all of a
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sudden they're escalating. Oh yeah, you're probably right. You know,
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my mom my therapist told me I was being more codependent.
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I need to really be better. And they're fainting and
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they're they're falling back, and they're appeasing and there, and
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their physiology has hijacking, and then their language tracks with that,
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and say, wait a minute, that might not be true.
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That might not be happening. You know, it's your accusation,
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might not be what you're talking about, and it's not
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really true for me. So this is really a great
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discussion around that.
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Yes, great, So I want to anchor some of what
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you just said. Uh, you you added rightly. In addition
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to fight flee, freeze and faint, you added fawning the
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other f fawning is appeasing, right, And so that's really
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very very important. Instead of being capable of telling, you know,
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saying things like tell me more. But the reason we
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can't say things like tell me more, or we say
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it but we don't really mean it is because the
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thinking part of our brain has been turned off temporarily
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by all of those stress chemicals flooding our brain. And
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so part of what you demonstrated was, and I'm going
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to say this verbally for the people who are listening,
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part of what you demonstrated was tapping your forehead and
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then tapping the back of your head basically where the
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top of your neck meets the bottom of your skull.
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And there are there are other terms for that. One
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is frontal occipital holding. Another version of this that that
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which doesn't involve tapping but involves holding these same places.
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Another version that also doesn't involve tapping but involves holding
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is called the Tapas acupressure technique. Tat Tapas is Tapas
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Fleming's first name. There are different versions of this frontal
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occipital soothing process. And what you were demonstrating that I
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really want to anchor for our audience is that there
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are ways to facilitate the speed at which those stress
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chemicals recede from our brain, so the thinking part of
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our brain can come back online. Because ordinarily, when somebody floods,
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it takes an average of fifteen to twenty minutes before
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those stress chemicals recede from the brain. But we can
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often reduce the amount of time it takes for that
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to happen.
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Yeah, into seconds. What I'm doing conflict mediation. It'll take
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me seconds to reduce the person's response. And you and
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I can practice any one of those sentences as if
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you like, feel free to say, Bill, what would you
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do this sentence? Or what would you do with this
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thought or this thing just happened, And I'll actually like
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demonstrate how that we can reintegrate language and the brain
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in order to do that with the with the four
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different steps that I coach people to do and I
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trained people to do. Is Okay, this person said this
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really junkie thing to you over Thanksgiving dinner. What do
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you say back? You know, what do you say back?
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To that. You know, how do you how do you
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bring your language and your compassion to the upsetting thing
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that they said? You know, and I've got, you know,
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you know, hundreds of examples of what to say back
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when somebody says something that affects your system, and you know,
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we can take any one of those sentences out versavin
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if you'd like, mm hmmm, so it can demonstrate that.
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Good before we wrap up this segment and we'll get
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more into what to look for in solution, and then
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after that the solution you're you're really a wizard at
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coming up. But in just the last minute or so, sure,
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are there any other root causes in addition to flooding
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that cause us to become paralyzed unable to keep being
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usefully responsive in conversations about.
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The next thing I'm going to say is going to
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be very upsetting but also liberating at the same time.
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And it's a very simple sentence, and everybody gets a
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free pass. Okay. So the sentence is this empathy before
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problem solving, our society and our education system, insurrectional system,
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and our systems have been racing to try to solve
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the problem and trying to top over the emotional issue.
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We have the thought and the coaching and the belief
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if we just fix the problem, the emotion goes away.
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And I'm here to share with you that is not
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fully true. From time to time it works, but most
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of the time we need to use a the empathy formula,
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not sympathy, which we can talk about David. The difference
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and the empathy formula is is that what need is
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causing what feeling right, So I feel entire that I
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need rest. Then we'll talk further about the solution. But
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the thing I'd like it to leave us with, because
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you were asking about that, is empathy before problem solving.
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That's right, and so we're totally aligned on that. The
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habit is people falling into this trap that makes things worse,
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which is problem solving before empathy. And my wording for
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that is people before tasks is the solution. But when
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we put tasks before people, we get into trouble. So
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after another short break, we'll get into the heart of
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the matter. What to look for in a solution that
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can turn touchy topics around so we can understand each
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other more deeply instead of walking away feeling more distant,
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misunderstood or resentful. I'm doctor David Gruder. This is the
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Reimagining Humanity's Future in your show on the X AND
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Broadcast network. And we'll continue momentarily and we're back before
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the break, my illustrious guest Bill Stirling and I delved
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into lesser discussed major causes of conversation deterioration, and as
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I mentioned in this segment, we'll unpack ingredients to look
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for when you want to up your capability to as
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I'm fond of saying, have difficult discussions about touch topics
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and transformative ways. So we'll get into some of your
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methods specific methods in a little while. But what what
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should people be looking for? What ingredients would people be
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wise to look for in resources that might help them
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navigate touchy topic mindfields more effectively?
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Well, I think the I think one of the biggest
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challenges that we have is to to adjust our perception
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and our perspective regarding truth and the resources is that
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to when we're looking at sentences that people say or do,
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our sentences are so built in context that we forget
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about the human subtext that's underneath the sentence. And what
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winds up, David is is that these two different layers
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of language are taking place. And if somebody says the
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sentence I like her or I like him, what's underneath
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that is either A I feel excited about connection or
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B I feel doubtful about truth, same sentence, different subtext.
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So learning about and building a stronger feeling need vocabulary,
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stronger formula for compassionate communication is really what the recommendation
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is is that we as a society, we need to
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make it safer for people to be upset and to
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be able to work through it with them. That's not
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what's happening. What's happening is somebody gets upset and the
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other person runs or capitulates or becomes angry back. That's
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what's happening, instead of somebody's staring it down. I go, yeah,
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I get it. You're really feeling angry, and you really
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like fairness in the economy, and fairness doesn't look like
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this country charging this amount and this other country charging
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this amount, and you want fairness. Yeah, I can see
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how fairness is a part of your truth. But I
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feel scared about the economy and the impact on poor people,
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and I feel scared about consideration of poor people. Notice
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I'm not mad about a terif all of a sudden,
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I'm just calling for what it is. Oh, you're trying
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to create equality over there. You're trying to get fairness
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over there. I see that, But what about consideration over here?
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Oh oh those are well, I didn't think about consideration.
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I'm just going after one thing, and I was gonna
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burn down the burn down the thing to get the
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one thing. We're in a very polarized place because certain
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people speaking have learned if I just rile up somebody
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and cast enough doubt and skepticism on the other side,
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I can I can do what I want. I can really,
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you know, I can really get some mileage out of this.
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I can get people to vote for me. I can
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get courts to stall and overget overwhelmed. I can I
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can run over all kinds of rules, and I can
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run over all kinds of societal norms because no one's
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gonna no one knows how to argue from two different places.
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And that's the vocabulary build that we need as a society.
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Okay, I'm going to unpack all of these because you've
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you've you've identified four areas that people would be wise
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to look for in resources that might help them with this.
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The resource that they choose to use has to teach
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us how to do to the following four things and
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probably more which you'll unpack after I unpack these parts.
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Has to teach us how to adjust our perception and
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perspective regarding truth quote unquote truth where we start focusing
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on human subtext.
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Right, that's right.
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The second is it has to the resource has to
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help us learn how to replace judgments, positions, and advocated
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solutions with disclosing our deepest concerns and highest intentions instead,
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it has to teach us how to shift our focused
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The third.
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One, addition to that one before you move on, David,
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very very important thing is to convert judgments to observation linguistically.
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If when you convert a judgment, who spilled the milk too?
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I see milk on the table. Now it's an observation, yes,
479
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:08.360
because judgment causes conflict and then people start trying to
480
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.639
defend the conflict. So I just want to put that
481
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.440
nuance in there before you do the next two because
482
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.039
you're sitting with you're sitting right in the right in
483
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.719
the right lane with that, because that's a big one.
484
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:24.320
Yes, And what you're what you're just talking about, I'm
485
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:28.880
going to add my voice to because it's it's absolutely correct.
486
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:34.960
We have an epidemic of people confusing data and opinion,
487
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:40.239
data and judgment, right, So a solution has to help
488
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.599
us learn how to shift from judgments to observations, from
489
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:53.559
from uh, you know, evaluation or opinion into being able
490
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:58.280
to describe data and data and judgment are not the
491
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.840
same thing, but they constantly get confused. Fact and opinion
492
00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:06.119
aren't the same thing, but they're constantly getting confused. So
493
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.719
the next thing that we need to look for in
494
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:13.119
a solution is that it teaches. It helps us build
495
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:21.079
the capacity for empathy and accompanying vocabulary for emotion and connection.
496
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:26.639
And a solution that we need to look for needs
497
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:30.159
to help us learn how to replace riling people up
498
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.639
and escalating anxiety and doubt with softening people up and
499
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:39.960
de escalating anxiety and doubt.
500
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:44.400
Yes, very much so to be able to de escalate it.
501
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.440
No matter the label and diagnosis that somebody says in
502
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:52.000
our direction, no matter the level of untruth that the
503
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.840
person provides us in a sentence, we still need to
504
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:59.280
slow down and empathize with the thing that we might
505
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.519
be thinking that it's full of it in our head.
506
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.199
We need to actually empathize with what the person says.
507
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.400
So it sounds like that you would like some acknowledgment
508
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:12.000
that in the past there was a great economy and
509
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:15.280
you're mentioning some numbers about that. So I'm training now,
510
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:18.320
I'm training the whole thing like an observation, not like
511
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:23.679
I have to disprove it. So if somebody says, like,
512
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.679
here's a good one, here's a good truth perspective thing.
513
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:32.880
Suppose somebody says, well, the price of tariff is going
514
00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:39.440
to raise this car, you know, nine thousand, three hundred dollars,
515
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.079
and the response that says, oh yeah, well the car
516
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:46.599
is going to go up for you know, ten thousand dollars. No, No,
517
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:51.800
I said nine three hundred dollars. Oh my gosh, that's
518
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:57.239
not what we're talking about. Truth gets hijacked with accuracy
519
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:05.360
from time to time because but exaggerations and minimizations. It's
520
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:10.239
not the real issue. But the real issue is how
521
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:14.239
can we be considerate to the person that's purchasing that
522
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:18.719
How does this thing going to affect the sales in
523
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:24.079
that particular industry when you do that action? How is
524
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:28.400
this going to slow growth? How is this going to
525
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:34.559
not keep the flow of money, exchange, value, energy between
526
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:40.239
us as human beings. That conversation's lost because one person
527
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:44.480
was specific and one person generalized it. We're arguing in
528
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:48.239
the wrong place and that's really unsettling. But it's good point,
529
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:54.039
David that you mentioned observation. Convert judgments to observation, convert
530
00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:00.719
opinions to facts, and then empathize with the fact. This
531
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.159
is what this fact is helping us understand as something
532
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:05.800
we value.
533
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:11.639
Right, And of course what makes that whole framing around
534
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:22.000
facts complicated is that is that people get gridlocked with
535
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.760
each other over arguing about what the facts are. And
536
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:32.039
the solution that you've you've spoken about that I want
537
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:37.559
to underline is that if that's what's happening, set aside
538
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:47.239
arguing about facts and focus on on the the observables,
539
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.159
the data, not and data about you know, here, here's
540
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.519
here's a behavior I observe. Here are words that I'm
541
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.239
hearing things things like that, rather than it's this statistic
542
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:00.559
or it's that's statistic.
543
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.239
Yeah, I'll even repeat I'll even re David, I'll even
544
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.440
repeat back the thing verbatim, even though it's full of it.
545
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:11.079
It's not accurate. I want it. I want the universe
546
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:17.280
to hear the inaccuracy twice. It's okay, they said it,
547
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:21.559
I'm saying it back to you. Oh so you like
548
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:25.599
me to You would like me to hear that this
549
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:30.679
is the largest acknowledge an inauguration ever. An attending is
550
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.000
that what's like here? And you have the accounting that
551
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.000
it's this number, and I have the accounting that it's
552
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.039
this that right. Yeah, I can understand that we have
553
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:42.679
two different points of view and perspectives because I don't
554
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.519
want to get I don't want to get caught, and
555
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:50.920
whose truth is more accurate? Because that's not the problem.
556
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:54.800
The problem is how does recognition look like? How does
557
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.480
respect look like? What does it mean to inflate recognition
558
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:03.440
and ignow knowledgement? Which is a big part of sales
559
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:06.199
and marketing. If I want to sell somebody on something,
560
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:10.840
I want to inflate the end results with anticipation. That
561
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.719
changes the physiology that causes a person to want to
562
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:18.960
believe it to be true, and it allows the person
563
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:20.960
to get out of their own way. But it also
564
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:25.880
lets the person being sold something that's not true, which
565
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.480
is also problematic in our current society. We've got to
566
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:33.400
watch that because we're really getting sat We were you know,
567
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:35.719
I can hold my cell phone up here. We were
568
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.000
never meant. Our brains were never meant. We have not devolved,
569
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:43.599
have not a sin to be able to handle the
570
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:50.519
amount of mental stimulation of information at this point in time.
571
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:55.960
It is so flooding to the limbic brain. We don't.
572
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:59.239
We need a new communication. That's the point of this podcast.
573
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:03.960
We need a new communication of one person says something
574
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:08.000
I'm empathizing back, one person says something I'm empathizing back.
575
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.760
Got it. After our upcoming break, we'll return for our
576
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:15.199
episode's final segment, during which I'll be asking Bill to
577
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.119
reveal his version of what we just discussed that you
578
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.559
should look for when you want to master the art
579
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.519
of elevated political conversations and other kinds of touchy conversations.
580
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:29.199
I'm doctor David Gruder. This is the reimagining Humanity's future
581
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:31.519
in your show on the ex Own Broadcast Network, and
582
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:36.039
we'll be turning. Will be returning shortly before the break,
583
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.719
Bill Sterley and I discussed ingredients to look for you
584
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:43.840
when you want to learn how to discuss political topics
585
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:49.000
or other touchy topics without destroying relationships. As I already
586
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:53.480
mentioned during the final segment of this episode called reimagining
587
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:59.079
political Conversations that work, diffusing division, elevating connection, Bill will
588
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.280
tell us about his special ways of accomplishing this. I'll
589
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.320
then let you know how to get your hands on,
590
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.800
how to learn more about Bill's valuable and timely work,
591
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.239
and how to get in touch with him. After that,
592
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.000
we'll each share He and I will each share the
593
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.079
big takeaways we hope you have gained from this episode,
594
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:20.800
followed by my closing comments. So, Bill, how do you
595
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.719
help people discuss politics and other tachi topics without war
596
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:26.599
breaking out?
597
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:31.719
So, as we talked about in the last segment, to
598
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:37.920
start looking at sentences and thoughts and moments of expression,
599
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:42.960
one sentence at a time, and then d and then
600
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:47.159
focus on the subtext or focus on the empathetic sentence
601
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:50.719
that's underneath it, which is and if you'd be willing to,
602
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:53.519
I'd like all of our David, all of your listeners
603
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:59.599
to just gently redefined empathy as the following sentence, and
604
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.360
then everything is going to go better. So here comes
605
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:07.199
Empathy only occurs when a feeling word and a need
606
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:12.360
word are connected and then agreed upon. I feel tired,
607
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:18.760
I need rest is in self empathy sentence. You feel
608
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:24.559
energized because your need for learning is met. Is that correct? Yes,
609
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:28.559
Now we have a moment of empathy. So we're using
610
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:34.039
language to do three things. Emotional sobriety, slow down our reaction,
611
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:39.679
emotional resilience, be able to handle the upsets of others,
612
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:46.360
and emotional congruency. We know what word's going on from
613
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.880
moment to moment, which is kind of like the path
614
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.960
to mental health, right, but also the path to national health.
615
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:56.760
We've got to slow down and say, oh yeah, So
616
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.559
you know, it seems like the president is trying to
617
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:02.440
meet his need for respect and recognition by the way
618
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:05.360
he's speaking. Oh, he would like his need for support
619
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.440
to be met by this state. Oh he's looking for
620
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:12.880
fairness to show up. Isn't that interesting? When we're talking
621
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:18.639
in the subtext way, it cuts down the argument and
622
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:20.639
the thing David I'd like to say to it's going
623
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:23.000
to get your audience to laugh a little bit here
624
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:31.320
is with this skill, you can actually stop a four
625
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:36.239
year old from doing a tantrum within three sentences. That's
626
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:39.079
all it takes. Wouldn't that be a good idea for
627
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:43.719
most parents? And that tantrum person might be an adult
628
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:48.119
person that might be older. They're throwing a tantrum because
629
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:52.559
they're upset about some thought that they have in their mind.
630
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.480
It's like, oh, okay, so what thought is bugging the
631
00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:58.199
crap out of you? Bring it on? You know, tell
632
00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:01.159
me what, tell me, tell me where your pain is?
633
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:04.360
You know. So that's the thing to get a hold of,
634
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:09.880
is getting used to having that formula of empathy, feeling, need,
635
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:15.679
request sitting underneath the sentence, no matter the sentence or
636
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:18.599
matter the thought. You know. I'd love to teach all
637
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:23.559
reporters this because if reporters would do that, they would
638
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:27.199
be able to hone quicker in on truth telling and
639
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:32.559
create greater piece and connection and still increase ratings, which
640
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.559
is something they worry about. So it's just there's a
641
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:39.039
way to think about it in a different way. Empathy
642
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.400
for self, here's my feeling in need. Empathy for others,
643
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:47.360
here's their feeling in need. And then no matter what
644
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:50.159
they say, know that there is a feeling in need
645
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:54.320
underneath it, and then it goes better. You're more grounded
646
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:59.119
and you have ability to manage the emotion inside the
647
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:03.800
setting or inside the experience of two hundred and fifty
648
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:07.719
people screaming at me at a city council meeting. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
649
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.960
give me one sentence at a time, one sentence at
650
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:13.840
a time. Let me hear that sentence. Oh so you're
651
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.280
really feeling mad because your need for being heard is
652
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:19.840
not met with the council. Is that right? Yes? Great?
653
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.280
How would you like to be heard in this moment?
654
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:24.199
Because if I don't fix it, then I'm gonna have
655
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:27.199
ten other people screaming. You know, I didn't hear the
656
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:29.639
first guy, and they're gonna be pissed at me for
657
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.000
not hearing. All right, So you need respect, So you
658
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:36.039
need some choice, You really need some consideration. You didn't
659
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.559
know how upset I was gonna be. Okay, now I do,
660
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:44.320
so let me fix it now. So it's really really
661
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:50.199
valuable to just change the definition of sympathy sympathy you'll
662
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.159
stop it. A feeling or sympathy will go to an
663
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:58.880
explanation or justification, and that's not helpful. It's only a
664
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:03.320
partial band aid on the problem. Where empathy really reduces
665
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.480
the problem. And with the definition I.
666
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:14.119
Used Okay, so what you're talking about is addressing items
667
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:18.480
one sentence at a time and focusing on the subtext,
668
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:24.679
the emotional subtext. I'm going to repeat my best recollection
669
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.599
of your definition of empathy, which I totally support and
670
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:35.119
agree with. Empathy only occurs when a feeling word and
671
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:40.159
a need word and a request word are connected and
672
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.719
then agreed upon through mutual understanding of each other, while
673
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:48.800
abstaining from editorializing about these things.
674
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.840
Wow, that I really appreciate that last piece that you
675
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.039
put on there, because now I feel delighted because my
676
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.199
need for contribution is being met to you and the group.
677
00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:02.199
I tell you out empathize and I just I brought
678
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.519
it back to you in real time. Notice how our
679
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:09.920
conversation just lifted and became a little more inspirational because
680
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:14.159
we're connected at the subtext place. We could talk in context,
681
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:16.400
which is fine because we're trying. We have all these
682
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:20.119
labels and diagnoses. He's swirling up here, But really at
683
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:24.880
the heart space is how do we do natural giving
684
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:28.440
between human beings? How do we create moments of fairness,
685
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:34.039
moments of mutual respect and escalate and increase our connection.
686
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:39.559
I don't know, let's do that, right, let's star that.
687
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:43.840
And just so that those who listen to a lot
688
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:48.960
of my episodes don't get confused over terminology. What you're
689
00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:56.679
calling context, I call positions, you know, or advocated solutions,
690
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:01.960
And what I called content text is the subtext deep
691
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:06.239
our deepest concerns and highest intentions. That's for me what
692
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.639
the context is. So I don't need us to agree
693
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:12.079
on terminology. I just want our audience to be able
694
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:16.199
to cross translate between wording choices.
695
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.519
Well, I really feel appreciative of that, because meeting the
696
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:24.280
need for clarity on terms is the problem with truth
697
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:28.480
and truth restoration. Truth restoration is it is going like, okay,
698
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:34.800
if well, if a psychologist puts a diagnosis on somebody
699
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:38.079
and another psychologist looks at that, and they come from
700
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:43.320
a different university, they might be using different definitions for oh,
701
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.679
that's not quite outside because you know, that's a narcissistic
702
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:48.960
tendency which has to do with this, and there's a
703
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.000
little bit of bipolar in there, and there's a little
704
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.199
manic depressive in there, and it's like, oh, my gosh,
705
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.920
why don't we talk about the person meeting their need
706
00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:02.639
for respect at the expense of an another person. Right now,
707
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:06.519
we're actually talking about something good. We don't get stuck
708
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:07.119
at the label.
709
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.440
There are there are a few things that I want
710
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:11.880
to make sure we don't run out of time to say.
711
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:12.039
So.
712
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.800
First of all, you can learn more about Bill and
713
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:20.800
his extremely valuable work and and also be able to
714
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:25.440
contact him by going to Bill Sterly dot com. But now,
715
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.679
get get the spelling right, Bill as in b I
716
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:32.840
L L Sterly as an s t i E r
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00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:39.679
l e dot com, Bill Sterly dot com and Bill
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very in a single sentence, and please don't make it
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a long run on sentence, a compact sentence. What's the
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big takeaway that you most want people to have gotten
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from this episode?
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The big takeaway is building our emotional vocabulary, our needs vocabulary,
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and our ability to execute empathy for the upset of
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another person. Pain is a given, Suffering is optional. When
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you use empathy, sufferings reduced. It's still painful to go
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through what we're going through. Everybody's clear about that part
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of it.
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I gotta stop you.
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You're right, you told me to stay short that I.
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Didn't right, Yeah, building our emotional needs, emotional and needs
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and empathy vocabulary. So mine is until we learn how
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to have controversial conversations in ways that draw us closer,
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our country will continue to be in greater and greater danger.
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And I'm going to say something really quickly before before
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my closing comments, which is what I call fractured nation
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syndrome is now in full swing and it's deeply traumatizing
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our collective American psyche and psyches of other countries around
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the world too. I don't know how much worse this
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is going to have to get before enough people figure
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out how to effectively put their foot down about that.
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But what I do know is that societal trauma has
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created the need for a societal psychotherapist, and you can
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read my article about this at doctor Gruder dot com
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00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:37.079
slash sp intro Societal Psychotherapist intro d r g r
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00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:41.960
u d Er dot com slash sp intro. Bill, I
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00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.199
really want to thank you for joining me for this episode,
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00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:50.639
and there's so much more we could have talked about,
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00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:54.239
but in our time limits we can't, so thank you
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for being here with me and for this discussion.
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00:52:57.519 --> 00:52:59.639
I feel delighted to be here. It really met my
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00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:04.039
neph contribution as well as provide clarity to the audience,
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00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:07.960
and I'm looking forward for us to actually have a
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00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.719
fun time in the future about role playing. What you
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00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:13.880
say here? What do you say there? Yes, which is
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00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.440
going to be a whole episode all by itself, and
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00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:18.920
let's just realy intend to do that at some time.
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00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:22.800
Okay, Yes, good so, Bill Sterly dot com, B I
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00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:26.800
L L S T I E R L E dot com.
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00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:31.000
The world needs you, Your nation needs you, your loved
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00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:34.840
ones need you. You need you boost your impact in
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00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:38.840
helping the future you most want to emerge. Thank you
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00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:42.360
for joining me for this episode of reimagining Humanity's future
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00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:46.360
and yours on the X Zone broadcast Network. This has
764
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.599
been Doctor David Gruder, the polymath of human potential who
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00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:55.119
equips leading edge leaders, influencers, and you with transcendent ideals, values, principles,
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00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:59.840
mindsets and skills for co creating humanity's most spiritually elevated future.
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00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:03.159
I invite you to explore my main website, Doctor Gruder
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00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:05.719
dot com, where you'll find a link to watch or
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00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:08.599
listen to all of the show's episodes, as well as
770
00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:11.679
the link to the Center for Enlightened Self Sovereignty, which
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00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:17.199
is helping to dissolve divisiveness and reunite countries and usher
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00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:21.159
in the age of spiritual self sovereignty that serves us
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00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:24.679
all around the world and much more. I enthusiastically invite
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you to tune in next time for another spellbusting, uplifting,
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00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:31.840
an actionable episode on how together we can and will
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00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:35.679
build a better future for ourselves and for humanity.