Lisa Dieker 0:07
Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa Dieker.
Rebecca Hines 0:10
And I'm Rebecca Hines. And today, Lisa, I know we have our friend, Dr. Juli Dixon. And she's gonna be talking to us about math and anything else that strikes her. So why don't you, why don't you give us the the basics on Dr. Dixon.
Lisa Dieker 0:28
Got it. Dr. Dixon, we thank you for joining us. And the joke is that everybody is our friend. So thank you for being another one of our friends. But, but Juli and I really do go back a long way. We've been friends since the day I walked in the door. So we're so happy you could be with us to talk to us today about math, and maybe a little bit of your family. So welcome.
Dr. Juli Dixon 0:47
Thanks so much. I'm honored to be here.
Lisa Dieker 0:50
Well, thank you. Thank you. So I know you're you're going to be too humble to admit this. But I would say you're one of the top math gurus in this country, in thinking about how we help people learn math, but I also think you have a really unique lens in disability. So my first question is going to be a really simple one. And that is I'm a math teacher. Doesn't matter the grade level, what's the first thing I should be thinking about to do high quality math when I have an inclusive setting what should be my like primary thought, what's my big takeaway from from a practical approach in your mind?
Dr. Juli Dixon 1:25
So for a practical approach, regardless, we want to make sure we keep the learning goal for the math lesson in mind. But once we've made sense of that learning goal, we want to select tasks that have a lot of opportunities for access, we often describe those tasks as having low floors and high ceilings so that more students can be included in the conversation.
Lisa Dieker 1:51
I love it. I love it. And as we think about math today, I know you're a lover of discourse, and and and kids talking, can you give me a little example of what that looks like? Like if you could describe the perfect classroom? What would that look like?
Dr. Juli Dixon 2:09
So the perfect classroom would involve a welcoming environment where students could engage in a conversation with what they have to bring to the table. I can give you an example of, say, a third grade class. So in a third grade class exploring strategies for multiplication, a teacher might ask students, well, let's consider this fact six times seven. And we want to explore strategies to get to the product of six times seven, the answer if we multiplied six times seven, if we didn't know the answer already, by sharing that situation, and offering students tools like manipulatives, like cubes that they could count, whiteboards they could draw on and then welcoming students to provide strategies. We're allowing students to bring to the conversation, what they have to offer. A student can say, well, I can make six groups with seven of these counters in each group, and then I can count on all the counters. Another student, though, could say, well, I just know that the fact, another student could skip count, skip count, 7, 14, 21, and so on. And so by sharing this task that meets a learning goal of using strategies to multiply, but opening it up so students can share wherever they are. And then students can make sense of each other's thinking. We we set a stage from our access.
Rebecca Hines 3:43
Thanks, Juli. So now let's expand this a little bit. That was a great example. And I'll stick kind of with elementary, and I'm going to add on now special ed, but I would stay away from secondary content experts for a moment. Let's say I graduated from an elementary ed program. And I just happened to be what I will call math resistant. Maybe I'm not confident as a teacher in my own math skills. So whether I'm a special ed teacher, elementary ed teacher, I'm not particularly confident myself. What are some good entry ways for me to build my own confidence in teaching math so that I'm not, you know, shortening that window of opportunity for my kids? And I honestly, I see that happen and I'm sure I'm sure you you do too, where I just avoid, I teach the fewest minutes of math that I can possibly get away with, because I feel like I'm not great at it myself. So how can I increase my own, not only proficiency but confidence as a math instructor?
Dr. Juli Dixon 4:49
Great question. And so that's common, where people come to teach elementary school math especially and lack some confidence in their own mathematics prowess, I guess right? So what we want is to give the teacher opportunities to have experience as learners. And that could simply be by doing the tasks themselves with the aid of resources. So, often we have published resources textbooks for the class, and the teachers additions to this textbooks go unopened. If a teacher is uncertain or unfamiliar, that is a really helpful resource, regardless of the curriculum you use, open the teachers edition, and see how the math is described. It might be that you're not going to have time especially if you limit your minutes teaching math, which I'd like to suggest you not do, do you, it's likely that you're not going to have time to do every problem that's in the lesson for the day from the textbook. So you can choose problems, and then look at how the textbook describes how to teach those problems and look at the answers from the textbook. By working backwards, you can make sense of the mathematics that you're teaching, and bring that level that greater level of confidence into your instruction.
Lisa Dieker 6:11
Well, I love that answer. And I love knowing that you're this amazing mom with these two beautiful daughters that really represent this range of twice exceptionality. And so as a mother, parent, and speaking to classroom teachers, what would you suggest if your child is gifted and struggles at the same time, especially in areas like mathematics? How do we approach that in the classroom as well as as a parent?
Dr. Juli Dixon 6:45
So that's a really big question. So we have gifted learners who struggle academically, we have gifted learners who struggle with the attention, with patience with other students in the class. So it really depends on the student, and the child for the parent. So parents know their children so well, from the parents perspective, I would have conversations with children about what's happening in your math class. What do you like about it? Where do you have concern? Where do you have anxiety? And by having this the child talk to the parent about their experiences, sometimes children can even work through strategies to be more successful in the classroom themselves. I know with my own children, when they were in a classroom situation, they're grown now, but in the classroom situation, we would have lots of conversations, what makes you feel successful in math class? Where do you feel less successful? And now we can problem solve about strategies as a learner, to bring in open mindedness, trying to communicate, assert your needs when you're not understanding, to share your needs with your own teacher, so the teacher can get to know you better, as well.
Rebecca Hines 8:05
And Juli segueing, back to that classroom environment, you know, my backgrounds in English Ed, so I'm authentic when I say, I don't know, the best strategies, and I don't know what the latest is out there. But I do know that, you know, sometimes I'm, I will go back and think back to some of the historical people in my own area, and things like Nancie Atwell and her reader writer workshop. And there were just so many pieces about that that spoke to me because it's about mini lessons and creating a classroom where kids are working on their own things, but coming back together and sharing etc. What would you say are some of the seminal pieces that we could look at, if we're just getting started as a math teacher that might give us some, you know, a nice, another script to follow but a nice pattern to follow so I can be comfortable as that math leader.
Dr. Juli Dixon 9:03
The National Council of Teachers of Mathematics provides great resources for teachers and even beginning teachers or teachers who are trying to develop this this level of comfort with teaching mathematics. There's a new document out catalyzing change that helps with the conversation of equity, including access, and around important mathematics in the mathematics classroom, I would encourage a look at that. Another one is a Principals to Actions, which describes teacher practices to help develop successful learners of mathematics. I think those would be two good places to start.
Lisa Dieker 9:46
And I'm going to throw out a seminal piece I think everyone should read and that is the book that you wrote with your daughter's stroke of luck, because I think also your journey and that of reteaching your daughter about mathematics, would you like to share a little bit about what's in that book with the listeners, I think it's just a great place for both parents and for new teachers to read and say, wow, math guru, sharing her heart and soul in a book. It's just a beautiful piece. And I'd love for you to share a little with us.
Dr. Juli Dixon 10:18
Sure, and thank you. So this book is written with by me and my daughter, Jessica Dixon. She wrote it when I think she was 11 or so. And now she is a senior in college studying, double majoring in neuroscience and statistics, and hoping to help us to understand a brain better, But it's about her older sister and my other daughter, Alex. Alex had a stroke when she was 12. It followed a long illness, but the stroke resulted in Alex needing to relearn all of her academics. It also left her legally blind and half paralyzed. But let's talk about the academic part of this. Alex had to relearn everything. And so as an educator, I felt that I was very well prepared to help her relearn mathematics. And then I realized and found that I never should have taught anyone until I had the honor of re-teaching Alex, because I learned so much from that process of finding ways to help Alex to be successful as a neurodiverse learner. And so the book takes us through the journey of Alex's illness, but also of her recovery. And we do share in it strategies to help students relearn, help students learn when they do have struggles, and we provide some inspiration. So thanks for having me share that.
Lisa Dieker 11:48
Yeah. And you have to I have to ask, can you share with everyone what Alex is doing now?
Dr. Juli Dixon 11:53
I sure can. So Alex just graduated from the University of Central Florida in early childhood education, and she minored in exceptional education. She is hoping to be a teacher of young learners, four year olds, in an inclusive setting. And she has decided to learn a bit more in this journey by starting her master's degree in early childhood education at University of Central Florida. So she, as a neurodiverse and struggling learner is continuing to learn and grow and hopes to get back to education.
Rebecca Hines 12:36
It helps when you have a mom who's an expert in education. So Juli, my final question is a simple one, yet a complex one. Math gets a bad rap, I think. How do we make math feel more fun? For learners and teachers? What's one off the cuff, one way to make math more fun?
Dr. Juli Dixon 13:03
One way to make math more fun is to make it more rich in discourse. Or I've enjoyed having this conversation with you all because we like to talk, we like to share what we learned socially. So what can we do with mathematics to make it more social, is to share tasks with learners and have them talk about them. Talk about learning to learn more deeply. And I think we also need to push ourselves as adults to embrace mathematics more readily and serve as models for our young learners. The more we can publicly embrace mathematics positively, the more likely the students and children we teach and support can do the same.
Lisa Dieker 13:53
So I did a piggyback on that question and asked you a similar question. Two parts but short, what's your best advice for parents to help their kids with math and for your advice for parents with kids with disabilities? What would be your one takeaway for each of those areas?
Dr. Juli Dixon 14:12
So, for parents to help their children with mathematics, let the children be the leaders. We know that we we learn best when we can teach. So let the children teach us about what they're learning in school, and have them explain and justify the math they're using. Make sense of what they're saying and engage in a conversation there. When we have students who struggle, it's going to take longer. And so I would also encourage us to find ways to limit the number of problems we do with our students rather than trying to limit the intensity of the problem, so that we spend more time on fewer problems so that we can help our students who struggle to make sense of those problems.
Lisa Dieker 15:04
That's great. Great! Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your multiple expertise and for being a great colleague and friend. So if you have questions, please post them on our Facebook page at Practical Access, or you can tweet us @accesspractical. Thank you again, Dr. Dixon.
Dr. Juli Dixon 15:22
Thank you. Take care.
Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa Dieker.
Rebecca Hines 0:10
And I'm Rebecca Hines. And today, Lisa, I know we have our friend, Dr. Juli Dixon. And she's gonna be talking to us about math and anything else that strikes her. So why don't you, why don't you give us the the basics on Dr. Dixon.
Lisa Dieker 0:28
Got it. Dr. Dixon, we thank you for joining us. And the joke is that everybody is our friend. So thank you for being another one of our friends. But, but Juli and I really do go back a long way. We've been friends since the day I walked in the door. So we're so happy you could be with us to talk to us today about math, and maybe a little bit of your family. So welcome.
Dr. Juli Dixon 0:47
Thanks so much. I'm honored to be here.
Lisa Dieker 0:50
Well, thank you. Thank you. So I know you're you're going to be too humble to admit this. But I would say you're one of the top math gurus in this country, in thinking about how we help people learn math, but I also think you have a really unique lens in disability. So my first question is going to be a really simple one. And that is I'm a math teacher. Doesn't matter the grade level, what's the first thing I should be thinking about to do high quality math when I have an inclusive setting what should be my like primary thought, what's my big takeaway from from a practical approach in your mind?
Dr. Juli Dixon 1:25
So for a practical approach, regardless, we want to make sure we keep the learning goal for the math lesson in mind. But once we've made sense of that learning goal, we want to select tasks that have a lot of opportunities for access, we often describe those tasks as having low floors and high ceilings so that more students can be included in the conversation.
Lisa Dieker 1:51
I love it. I love it. And as we think about math today, I know you're a lover of discourse, and and and kids talking, can you give me a little example of what that looks like? Like if you could describe the perfect classroom? What would that look like?
Dr. Juli Dixon 2:09
So the perfect classroom would involve a welcoming environment where students could engage in a conversation with what they have to bring to the table. I can give you an example of, say, a third grade class. So in a third grade class exploring strategies for multiplication, a teacher might ask students, well, let's consider this fact six times seven. And we want to explore strategies to get to the product of six times seven, the answer if we multiplied six times seven, if we didn't know the answer already, by sharing that situation, and offering students tools like manipulatives, like cubes that they could count, whiteboards they could draw on and then welcoming students to provide strategies. We're allowing students to bring to the conversation, what they have to offer. A student can say, well, I can make six groups with seven of these counters in each group, and then I can count on all the counters. Another student, though, could say, well, I just know that the fact, another student could skip count, skip count, 7, 14, 21, and so on. And so by sharing this task that meets a learning goal of using strategies to multiply, but opening it up so students can share wherever they are. And then students can make sense of each other's thinking. We we set a stage from our access.
Rebecca Hines 3:43
Thanks, Juli. So now let's expand this a little bit. That was a great example. And I'll stick kind of with elementary, and I'm going to add on now special ed, but I would stay away from secondary content experts for a moment. Let's say I graduated from an elementary ed program. And I just happened to be what I will call math resistant. Maybe I'm not confident as a teacher in my own math skills. So whether I'm a special ed teacher, elementary ed teacher, I'm not particularly confident myself. What are some good entry ways for me to build my own confidence in teaching math so that I'm not, you know, shortening that window of opportunity for my kids? And I honestly, I see that happen and I'm sure I'm sure you you do too, where I just avoid, I teach the fewest minutes of math that I can possibly get away with, because I feel like I'm not great at it myself. So how can I increase my own, not only proficiency but confidence as a math instructor?
Dr. Juli Dixon 4:49
Great question. And so that's common, where people come to teach elementary school math especially and lack some confidence in their own mathematics prowess, I guess right? So what we want is to give the teacher opportunities to have experience as learners. And that could simply be by doing the tasks themselves with the aid of resources. So, often we have published resources textbooks for the class, and the teachers additions to this textbooks go unopened. If a teacher is uncertain or unfamiliar, that is a really helpful resource, regardless of the curriculum you use, open the teachers edition, and see how the math is described. It might be that you're not going to have time especially if you limit your minutes teaching math, which I'd like to suggest you not do, do you, it's likely that you're not going to have time to do every problem that's in the lesson for the day from the textbook. So you can choose problems, and then look at how the textbook describes how to teach those problems and look at the answers from the textbook. By working backwards, you can make sense of the mathematics that you're teaching, and bring that level that greater level of confidence into your instruction.
Lisa Dieker 6:11
Well, I love that answer. And I love knowing that you're this amazing mom with these two beautiful daughters that really represent this range of twice exceptionality. And so as a mother, parent, and speaking to classroom teachers, what would you suggest if your child is gifted and struggles at the same time, especially in areas like mathematics? How do we approach that in the classroom as well as as a parent?
Dr. Juli Dixon 6:45
So that's a really big question. So we have gifted learners who struggle academically, we have gifted learners who struggle with the attention, with patience with other students in the class. So it really depends on the student, and the child for the parent. So parents know their children so well, from the parents perspective, I would have conversations with children about what's happening in your math class. What do you like about it? Where do you have concern? Where do you have anxiety? And by having this the child talk to the parent about their experiences, sometimes children can even work through strategies to be more successful in the classroom themselves. I know with my own children, when they were in a classroom situation, they're grown now, but in the classroom situation, we would have lots of conversations, what makes you feel successful in math class? Where do you feel less successful? And now we can problem solve about strategies as a learner, to bring in open mindedness, trying to communicate, assert your needs when you're not understanding, to share your needs with your own teacher, so the teacher can get to know you better, as well.
Rebecca Hines 8:05
And Juli segueing, back to that classroom environment, you know, my backgrounds in English Ed, so I'm authentic when I say, I don't know, the best strategies, and I don't know what the latest is out there. But I do know that, you know, sometimes I'm, I will go back and think back to some of the historical people in my own area, and things like Nancie Atwell and her reader writer workshop. And there were just so many pieces about that that spoke to me because it's about mini lessons and creating a classroom where kids are working on their own things, but coming back together and sharing etc. What would you say are some of the seminal pieces that we could look at, if we're just getting started as a math teacher that might give us some, you know, a nice, another script to follow but a nice pattern to follow so I can be comfortable as that math leader.
Dr. Juli Dixon 9:03
The National Council of Teachers of Mathematics provides great resources for teachers and even beginning teachers or teachers who are trying to develop this this level of comfort with teaching mathematics. There's a new document out catalyzing change that helps with the conversation of equity, including access, and around important mathematics in the mathematics classroom, I would encourage a look at that. Another one is a Principals to Actions, which describes teacher practices to help develop successful learners of mathematics. I think those would be two good places to start.
Lisa Dieker 9:46
And I'm going to throw out a seminal piece I think everyone should read and that is the book that you wrote with your daughter's stroke of luck, because I think also your journey and that of reteaching your daughter about mathematics, would you like to share a little bit about what's in that book with the listeners, I think it's just a great place for both parents and for new teachers to read and say, wow, math guru, sharing her heart and soul in a book. It's just a beautiful piece. And I'd love for you to share a little with us.
Dr. Juli Dixon 10:18
Sure, and thank you. So this book is written with by me and my daughter, Jessica Dixon. She wrote it when I think she was 11 or so. And now she is a senior in college studying, double majoring in neuroscience and statistics, and hoping to help us to understand a brain better, But it's about her older sister and my other daughter, Alex. Alex had a stroke when she was 12. It followed a long illness, but the stroke resulted in Alex needing to relearn all of her academics. It also left her legally blind and half paralyzed. But let's talk about the academic part of this. Alex had to relearn everything. And so as an educator, I felt that I was very well prepared to help her relearn mathematics. And then I realized and found that I never should have taught anyone until I had the honor of re-teaching Alex, because I learned so much from that process of finding ways to help Alex to be successful as a neurodiverse learner. And so the book takes us through the journey of Alex's illness, but also of her recovery. And we do share in it strategies to help students relearn, help students learn when they do have struggles, and we provide some inspiration. So thanks for having me share that.
Lisa Dieker 11:48
Yeah. And you have to I have to ask, can you share with everyone what Alex is doing now?
Dr. Juli Dixon 11:53
I sure can. So Alex just graduated from the University of Central Florida in early childhood education, and she minored in exceptional education. She is hoping to be a teacher of young learners, four year olds, in an inclusive setting. And she has decided to learn a bit more in this journey by starting her master's degree in early childhood education at University of Central Florida. So she, as a neurodiverse and struggling learner is continuing to learn and grow and hopes to get back to education.
Rebecca Hines 12:36
It helps when you have a mom who's an expert in education. So Juli, my final question is a simple one, yet a complex one. Math gets a bad rap, I think. How do we make math feel more fun? For learners and teachers? What's one off the cuff, one way to make math more fun?
Dr. Juli Dixon 13:03
One way to make math more fun is to make it more rich in discourse. Or I've enjoyed having this conversation with you all because we like to talk, we like to share what we learned socially. So what can we do with mathematics to make it more social, is to share tasks with learners and have them talk about them. Talk about learning to learn more deeply. And I think we also need to push ourselves as adults to embrace mathematics more readily and serve as models for our young learners. The more we can publicly embrace mathematics positively, the more likely the students and children we teach and support can do the same.
Lisa Dieker 13:53
So I did a piggyback on that question and asked you a similar question. Two parts but short, what's your best advice for parents to help their kids with math and for your advice for parents with kids with disabilities? What would be your one takeaway for each of those areas?
Dr. Juli Dixon 14:12
So, for parents to help their children with mathematics, let the children be the leaders. We know that we we learn best when we can teach. So let the children teach us about what they're learning in school, and have them explain and justify the math they're using. Make sense of what they're saying and engage in a conversation there. When we have students who struggle, it's going to take longer. And so I would also encourage us to find ways to limit the number of problems we do with our students rather than trying to limit the intensity of the problem, so that we spend more time on fewer problems so that we can help our students who struggle to make sense of those problems.
Lisa Dieker 15:04
That's great. Great! Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your multiple expertise and for being a great colleague and friend. So if you have questions, please post them on our Facebook page at Practical Access, or you can tweet us @accesspractical. Thank you again, Dr. Dixon.
Dr. Juli Dixon 15:22
Thank you. Take care.
